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chiefscafan
11-23-2011, 04:30 PM
Just currious what you think if anything the orton move says??

DaFace
11-23-2011, 04:31 PM
I think it says "Holy crap, we should have brought in a real backup QB this year."

Red Beans
11-23-2011, 04:32 PM
Just currious what you think if anything the orton move says??

Wishful thinking.

FAX
11-23-2011, 04:33 PM
It's a step in that direction and that's progress.

FAX

rico
11-23-2011, 04:33 PM
I sure hope so. I don't ever want to see Matt Cassel's face again.

Huffman83
11-23-2011, 04:33 PM
God I hope so. I've been patient w/ Cassel but he's flat out not the answer. However I'm also kind of bummed that we won't get to see Stanzi get a shot on the field. I hate the fact that KC will never develop their own QB, but they'll take anyones scraps.

lewdog
11-23-2011, 04:34 PM
A small step but many other things have to happen before that is the case.

Nightfyre
11-23-2011, 04:34 PM
The best sign that cassel is done with the chiefs is that he didn't travel to new england with the team, imo.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 04:34 PM
Cassel either beats out Orton or dies.

Micjones
11-23-2011, 04:34 PM
I definitely don't think this says anything positive about Cassel's future as a Chief.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 04:34 PM
The best sign that cassel is done with the chiefs is that he didn't travel to new england with the team, imo.

No. That's standard practice for people who just had surgery.

suds79
11-23-2011, 04:35 PM
God I hope so. I've been patient w/ Cassel but he's flat out not the answer. However I'm also kind of bummed that we won't get to see Stanzi get a shot on the field. I hate the fact that KC will never develop their own QB, but they'll take anyones scraps.

At some point we have to forget about Stanzi as a possibility right?

He's been a 3rd stringer behind Tyler Palko all year long and the Chiefs just claimed Orton.

Forget about Stanzi.

chiefscafan
11-23-2011, 04:36 PM
True I never liked the back up situation at QB but then I didnt believe cassel is as bad as he really is. I for one hope this is the end of cassel as starting QB.

FAX
11-23-2011, 04:36 PM
God I hope so. I've been patient w/ Cassel but he's flat out not the answer. However I'm also kind of bummed that we won't get to see Stanzi get a shot on the field. I hate the fact that KC will never develop their own QB, but they'll take anyones scraps.

This is good. It means that Cassel no longer has a strangle-hold on the position in Pioli's mind.

It also means that Stanzi will take the field when Stanzi is ready ... not before. And that is a very good thing.

I know a lot of people would like to see Stanzi start immediately, but that simply isn't the right way to handle this situation. He's not ready and throwing him to the wolves too early would result in more negatives than positives.

FAX

KCrockaholic
11-23-2011, 04:41 PM
Ultimately, if I was running this team I would do the following:

1. Start Stanzi vs Pittsburgh (Rough, but he has a future, there's no point in playing Palko)
2. Start Orton the rest of the season.
3. Release Matt Cassel in the off season.
4. Draft a QB in RD 1 (Robert Griffin, or Barkley)
5. Release Palko
6. Go into camp with Griffin, Orton, Stanzi
7. Camp battle between Griffin and Orton.
8. If Orton plays much better than Griffin then start him in the regular season and let Griffin soak up the playbook and speed of the NFL.
9. If Orton is terrible then start Griffin, and let Orton and Stanzi battle for #2.

BoneKrusher
11-23-2011, 04:41 PM
The best sign that cassel is done with the chiefs is that he didn't travel to new england with the team, imo.

yep!

Epic Fail 007
11-23-2011, 04:50 PM
yes cassels gone

Tribal Warfare
11-23-2011, 04:52 PM
This is good. It means that Cassel no longer has a strangle-hold on the position in Pioli's mind.

It also means that Stanzi will take the field when Stanzi is ready ... not before. And that is a very good thing.

I know a lot of people would like to see Stanzi start immediately, but that simply isn't the right way to handle this situation. He's not ready and throwing him to the wolves too early would result in more negatives than positives.

FAX


I'm finally caught up with the Kyle Orton thing and my belief is that Scott Pioli is looking at Stanzi as the QBOTF that he wants to develop. I have no doubt that Orton would beat out Cassel for the job if the starters position was up for grabs.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 05:12 PM
My opinion is that Orton is going to prove through his play that he is significantly better than Cassel, and the front office would stupid not to keep Orton over Cassel.

That said, I hope to god they don't think this is a long-term fix.

Huffman83
11-23-2011, 05:14 PM
Ultimately, if I was running this team I would do the following:

1. Start Stanzi vs Pittsburgh (Rough, but he has a future, there's no point in playing Palko)
2. Start Orton the rest of the season.
3. Release Matt Cassel in the off season.
4. Draft a QB in RD 1 (Robert Griffin, or Barkley)
5. Release Palko
6. Go into camp with Griffin, Orton, Stanzi
7. Camp battle between Griffin and Orton.
8. If Orton plays much better than Griffin then start him in the regular season and let Griffin soak up the playbook and speed of the NFL.
9. If Orton is terrible then start Griffin, and let Orton and Stanzi battle for #2.


I agree to a point, but what makes you think that Orton wants to be around another situation where he's not "THE MAN." for a team just so they can work in a rookie until he absolutely fucks up and doesn't cut it. He already did that. I doubt he would want to do it again.

FAX
11-23-2011, 05:15 PM
I agree to a point, but what makes you think that Orton wants to be around another situation where he's not "THE MAN." for a team just so they can work in a rookie until he absolutely ****s up and doesn't cut it. He already did that. I doubt he would want to do it again.

If it leads to real competition, that's a good thing.

Let him beat out everybody for the job ... or try to.

That could be very good for us.

FAX

PGM
11-23-2011, 05:16 PM
All this says is....

1. He's only here because Cassel got hurt.
2. Palko is awful.
3. They aren't ready to play Stanzi.

Nothing more, nothing less people.

BCD
11-23-2011, 05:17 PM
The best sign that cassel is done with the chiefs is that he didn't travel to new england with the team, imo.

That was my thought when I heard it Monday.

Huffman83
11-23-2011, 05:19 PM
If it leads to real competition, that's a good thing.

Let him beat out everybody for the job ... or try to.

That could be very good for us.

FAX

Sure if he plays for KC next year! He'll play out his contract this year. But wasn't this the last year of his contract?

htismaqe
11-23-2011, 05:20 PM
No. That's standard practice for people who just had surgery.

It's also quite common for guys on IR not to attend games, even when they're at home, let alone on the road.

jlscorpio
11-23-2011, 05:21 PM
Ultimately, if I was running this team I would do the following:

1. Start Stanzi vs Pittsburgh (Rough, but he has a future, there's no point in playing Palko)
2. Start Orton the rest of the season.
3. Release Matt Cassel in the off season.
4. Draft a QB in RD 1 (Robert Griffin, or Barkley)
5. Release Palko
6. Go into camp with Griffin, Orton, Stanzi
7. Camp battle between Griffin and Orton.
8. If Orton plays much better than Griffin then start him in the regular season and let Griffin soak up the playbook and speed of the NFL.
9. If Orton is terrible then start Griffin, and let Orton and Stanzi battle for #2.

You're fucking hired, Rock...

Fish
11-23-2011, 05:22 PM
I think it says "Holy crap, we should have brought in a real backup QB this year."

:thumb:

Marcellus
11-23-2011, 05:24 PM
All this says is....

1. He's only here because Cassel got hurt.
2. Palko is awful.
3. They aren't ready to play Stanzi.

Nothing more, nothing less people.

Party pooper.





I unfortunately agree.

3rd&48ers
11-23-2011, 05:25 PM
This is more a lack of confidence in what you have now, Cassel will be the starter next year Palko will be cut and Orton will sign a contract extension and play #2 .. after 3 weeks next year the Chiefs fans will be chanting Ortons name Like the Donks did TEBOW AND HE WILL be the QB for the next 3 years.

The Iron Chief
11-23-2011, 05:27 PM
What do I think it means...
Have fun in Cleveland Cassel...or Jacksonville or Canada..or..

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 05:29 PM
Have fun in Cleveland Cassel...or Jacksonville or Canada..or..

Cleveland is not going to downgrade from Colt McCoy.

Maybe Cassel will end up in Seattle. LMAO

Nightfyre
11-23-2011, 05:34 PM
It's also quite common for guys on IR not to attend games, even when they're at home, let alone on the road.

If you are a leader, you had better damn well be there, rain or shine. Cassel is done in kc.

jcroft
11-23-2011, 05:34 PM
I agree to a point, but what makes you think that Orton wants to be around another situation where he's not "THE MAN." for a team just so they can work in a rookie until he absolutely ****s up and doesn't cut it. He already did that. I doubt he would want to do it again.

The guy was just dropped outright by a bad team. They chose Tim Effing Tebow over him.

Sorry, but Orton isn't in a position to run around saying, "I'm not going anywhere where I'm not THE MAN!" No team is going to make Orton their starter outright next year. He's going to have to battle anywhere he goes. That's where he's at in his career. It doesn't really matter if he WANTS to be in that situation or not.

FAX
11-23-2011, 05:35 PM
All this says is....

1. He's only here because Cassel got hurt.
2. Palko is awful.
3. They aren't ready to play Stanzi.

Nothing more, nothing less people.

Please, Mr. PGM.

Don't remove the straws for which I am frantically grasping.

FAX

3rd&48ers
11-23-2011, 05:36 PM
If you are a leader, you had better damn well be there, rain or shine. Cassel is done in kc.

Sig bet?

Chief_For_Life58
11-23-2011, 05:37 PM
God I hope so. I've been patient w/ Cassel but he's flat out not the answer. However I'm also kind of bummed that we won't get to see Stanzi get a shot on the field. I hate the fact that KC will never develop their own QB, but they'll take anyones scraps.

GOD DAMNITTTTT!!!!!! I wanted cassel to do well but obviously he cannot play nfl qb. the worst thinga bout is is that since he got hurt its like his "golden ticket" to let him come back next year. I definitely think that anyway

Mr. Arrowhead
11-23-2011, 05:40 PM
I really doubt Orton will resign with us, if our plan is to draft a qb in 1st. He went through that in Denver

Nightfyre
11-23-2011, 05:40 PM
Sig bet?
As I browse without signatures or avatars , I would gain little from a sig bet.

jcroft
11-23-2011, 05:41 PM
I really doubt Orton will resign with us, if our plan is to draft a qb in 1st. He went through that in Denver

What do you think his other options will be? You think the guy that got waived from a bad team mid-season is going to be a hot ticket starting quarterback option come next year's free agency period?

Marcellus
11-23-2011, 05:44 PM
This is very likely a sign that Palko is done as starter this year.

No more, no less.

Huffman83
11-23-2011, 05:44 PM
What do you think his other options will be? You think the guy that got waived from a bad team mid-season is going to be a hot ticket starting quarterback option come next year's free agency period?

Ten, Was, MIA as far as teams that could use a QB go! I'd go w/ KC but that's my homerism showing.

Marcellus
11-23-2011, 05:45 PM
What do you think his other options will be? You think the guy that got waived from a bad team mid-season is going to be a hot ticket starting quarterback option come next year's free agency period?


The Raiders will sign him as a back up since he and Carson are basically the same QB. They just need to figure out who to send a draft pick to.

stonedstooge
11-23-2011, 05:46 PM
If Orton will sign for a smaller amount than Casshole would make next year, Clark says he's in

FAX
11-23-2011, 05:46 PM
Clearly, Orton was fed up with the goat people from the mountains. To me, that's a good sign. I hope that also means that he was playing like crap on purpose while he was there.

FAX

jcroft
11-23-2011, 05:48 PM
Ten, Was, MIA as far as teams that could use a QB go! I'd go w/ KC but that's my homerism showing.

You don't expect those teams to draft QBs, just as KC would?

My point is that Orton is going to be in the same position anywhere else as he would be in KC: fighting for a starting job against some young buck.

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 05:50 PM
Who really knows, but if I had to guess, I'd say it does mean Cassel is on his way out and here's my thinking: If you were going to fire Haley at the end of the year, why not let him lose as many games as possible to make the firing completely non-controversial. Orton may actually lead us to a couple of victories. I just don't think Haley and Cassel can coexist. Bringing in Orton suggests a little bit that maybe Pioli has chosen Haley over Cassel.

Huffman83
11-23-2011, 05:52 PM
You don't expect those teams to draft QBs, just as KC would?

My point is that Orton is going to be in the same position anywhere else as he would be in KC: fighting for a starting job against some young buck.

Yes I expect some of those teams to draft a QB. However odds are, not all of them will in the first 3 rounds of the draft.

jcroft
11-23-2011, 05:53 PM
Yes I expect some of those teams to draft a QB. However odds are, not all of them will in the first 3 rounds of the draft.

Maybe. I'd still say KC has as good a shot of resigning Orton as anyone else, if they want him.

FAX
11-23-2011, 05:54 PM
Who really knows, but if I had to guess, I'd say it does mean Cassel is on his way out and here's my thinking: If you were going to fire Haley at the end of the year, why not let him lose as many games as possible to make the firing completely non-controversial. Orton may actually lead us to a couple of victories. I just don't think Haley and Cassel can coexist. Bringing in Orton suggests a little bit that maybe Pioli has chosen Haley over Cassel.

Haley was very upbeat in his presser today. Much moreso than he has been in several weeks ... months, maybe.

I have developed a rare skill of reading between the lines and analyzing body language and making stuff up and I think that something is going on behind closed doors that is good for us and bad for Cassel.

FAX

Brock
11-23-2011, 05:55 PM
I'm sure Haley is thrilled with this. He was a dead man coaching.

Bane
11-23-2011, 05:57 PM
Nope,this is just a patch to contain the bleeding.Cassel is still the number 1 QB next year.I'd guarantee Pisoli has already told Cassel that he has nothing to worry about and this was a move made because we can't win without him.

stonedstooge
11-23-2011, 05:57 PM
I'm sure Haley is thrilled with this. He was a dead man coaching.

At least Pioli is giving him a chance

Brock
11-23-2011, 06:00 PM
Shit, this guy will be hooking up with Chiefs receivers all over the place. He'll totally embarrass Cassel.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 06:00 PM
Nope,this is just a patch to contain the bleeding.Cassel is still the number 1 QB next year.I'd guarantee Pisoli has already told Cassel that he has nothing to worry about and this was a move made because we can't win without him.

If Orton plays better than Cassel in the last six games there is no way they can start Cassel next year with a straight face.

MeatRock
11-23-2011, 06:02 PM
Most won't know who i am, as i have been gone for awhile, but i think Orton was a good pickup for this team right now. He throws a beautiful deep ball and leads receiver's with throws. Cassell is done in KC as a starter and Palko will get another chance at Pittsburg with Orton in the wings. No way do you start your rookie QB Stanzi in Pittsburg IMO. Would ruin him for the future. Stanzi needs the Rodgers treatment atleast for his first year as a pro.

Mr_Tomahawk
11-23-2011, 06:04 PM
Most won't know who i am, as i have been gone for awhile, but i think Orton was a good pickup for this team right now. He throws a beautiful deep ball and leads receiver's with throws. Cassell is done in KC as a starter and Palko will get another chance at Pittsburg with Orton in the wings. No way do you start your rookie QB Stanzi in Pittsburg IMO. Would ruin him for the future. Stanzi needs the Rodgers treatment atleast for his first year as a pro.

I can see you are a true fan.

MeatRock
11-23-2011, 06:05 PM
I can see you are a true fan.

How so? Would you really throw Stanzi to the wolves in Pittsburg?

FAX
11-23-2011, 06:06 PM
How so? Would you really throw Stanzi to the wolves in Pittsburg?

It's a home game, Mr. MeatRock.

FAX

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 06:06 PM
Call me a homer, I don't care.

But I think Kyle Orton would have could have beaten Baltimore last year.

Mr_Tomahawk
11-23-2011, 06:06 PM
How so? Would you really throw Stanzi to the wolves in Pittsburg?

:facepalm:

DenverDanChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 06:06 PM
Why would this have anything to do with Cassel? Orton's contract is up at the end of this season. It's a stop gap to get us through until Cassel can come back next year. :banghead:

MeatRock
11-23-2011, 06:07 PM
Oh shit. LOL dammit im drinking cut me a little slack? Please?

Mr. Laz
11-23-2011, 06:08 PM
I think it says "Holy crap, we should have brought in a real backup QB this year."
this, but i do think that either Haley or Cassel is gone after this year.

Harbaugh can make the best of Smith
Gailey can make the best of Fitzpatrick

How did Haley do at making the best of Cassel?

Imo that is the question Pioli needs to answer for himself in determining who stays and who goes.

MeatRock
11-23-2011, 06:11 PM
My point being is that you do not throw a rookie QB in against this pitt defense even at home.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 06:11 PM
Why would this have anything to do with Cassel? Orton's contract is up at the end of this season. It's a stop gap to get us through until Cassel can come back next year. :banghead:

I am thoroughly convinced that Orton will be so much better than Cassel, that it will become obvious Cassel was the problem.

Brock
11-23-2011, 06:12 PM
I am thoroughly convinced that Orton will be so much better than Cassel, that it will become obvious Cassel was the problem.

This, probably.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 06:13 PM
This, probably.

The downside being that he'll be so much better that the front office thinks he's just the answer, when really all it is is an average QB being better than a zero.

MeatRock
11-23-2011, 06:13 PM
Orton is not a bad QB, on the other hand Cassell was. He will not be back and Orton is just competition for Stanzi next year.

ILChief
11-23-2011, 06:14 PM
this, but i do think that either Haley or Cassel is gone after this year.

Harbaugh can make the best of Smith
Gailey can make the best of Fitzpatrick

How did Haley do at making the best of Cassel?

Imo that is the question Pioli needs to answer for himself in determining who stays and who goes.

Smith is infinitely more talented than Cassel. Fitzpatrick this year is no better than Cassel last year. In fact Fitzpatrick has already started to turn back into a pumpkin.

Mr. Laz
11-23-2011, 06:16 PM
Smith is infinitely more talented than Cassel. Fitzpatrick this year is no better than Cassel last year. In fact Fitzpatrick has already started to turn back into a pumpkin.

if Pioli agrees then he will replace Cassel and maybe Haley stays. He still didn't make the best of a mediocre QB. What will Haley do with a rooke QBotF?

FAX
11-23-2011, 06:16 PM
We have gotten so accustomed to seeing Cassel under center and taking 8 full minutes to A) Remember the play, B) Find his primary receiver, C) Cock his throwing arm, D) Arm his cock, E) Wind up, and F) Fling the ball to his outlet in the flat at 90 mph, that a lot of people don't realize just how bad he is.

It's so bad, in fact, that people are bitching about our o-line as if they are the root of the problem. Or, that the receivers are dropping balls and that's the issue ... never mind the fact that the damn thing is flung 10 feet over their head, or in the dirt, or behind them, or at the defender, or directly at their package.

It was interesting to see that, on Monday night, the offense played with more energy and vigor and tempo than they have all year long. Sure, Palko isn't going to change the world and dogs aren't going to start sleeping with cats, but he wasn't dramatically worse than Cassel ... on the road ... in his first, ever start ... on Monday night ... at New England. That should get everybody's attention.

I think we crossed the 50 something like 8 times ... hell, had Breaston caught the one tipped interception, we would have had a first down at the Patriot 20 with 2:00 minutes left in the half ... it was 7 to 3 at that point.

Cassel is the suck, men. The real suck. The bona fide, genuine, authentic, fair dinkum suck that you hear about in the horror stories they read to children when they're naughty.

FAX

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 06:17 PM
this, but i do think that either Haley or Cassel is gone after this year.

Harbaugh can make the best of Smith
Gailey can make the best of Fitzpatrick

How did Haley do at making the best of Cassel?

Imo that is the question Pioli needs to answer for himself in determining who stays and who goes.

Charlie Weis and Jim Zorn are QB gurus. McDaniels, a supposed guru, and Bellichick had Cassel before he went to KC.

This isn't just about Haley. Few QBs have had the superior QB coaching that Cassel has had. Sooner or later, you have to start realizing that it's the QB, not the coaching.

FAX
11-23-2011, 06:17 PM
this, but i do think that either Haley or Cassel is gone after this year.

Harbaugh can make the best of Smith
Gailey can make the best of Fitzpatrick

How did Haley do at making the best of Cassel?

Imo that is the question Pioli needs to answer for himself in determining who stays and who goes.

I think you're right about that, Mr. Laz.

FAX

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 06:19 PM
if Pioli agrees then he will replace Cassel and maybe Haley stays. He still didn't make the best of a mediocre QB. What will Haley do with a rooke QBotF?

It's a hypothetical argument, until you see what he can actually do with a real QB.

Haley may not have QB clout. But Weis and Zorn do. I trust Zorn to do a very good job with a young QB.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 06:21 PM
Well, if the Chiefs are done with Cassel, it is more about Cassel and Haley not getting along than it is about Orton being more talented. IMO, there is no question that Cassel is the better QB.

Brock
11-23-2011, 06:24 PM
Well, if the Chiefs are done with Cassel, it is more about Cassel and Haley not getting along than it is about Orton being more talented. IMO, there is no question that Cassel is the better QB.

LMAO Yeah. Sure.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 06:25 PM
LMAO Yeah. Sure.

Orton has a career passer rating of sub 80.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 06:25 PM
Well, if the Chiefs are done with Cassel, it is more about Cassel and Haley not getting along than it is about Orton being more talented. IMO, there is no question that Cassel is the better QB.

Sorry, I just laughed and peed a little.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 06:26 PM
Orton has a career passer rating of sub 80.

Sweet. That's about how many yards Cassel passes per game.

Brock
11-23-2011, 06:27 PM
Orton has a career passer rating of sub 80.

Cassel eats a dick in every way possible.

Simply Red
11-23-2011, 06:28 PM
http://tinyurl.com/6xl2zan

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 06:28 PM
Orton has a career passer rating of sub 80.

And the last three years, which is what is relevant, his rating is well above 80 with a TD/INT ratio of 49/28.

Oh yeah, and he can actually throw the ball over 10 yards with zip and accuracy.

You're not being "sensible."

whoman69
11-23-2011, 06:28 PM
My point being is that you do not throw a rookie QB in against this pitt defense even at home.

If you're waiting on a good time to put Stanzi in then you're going to wait at least until the Green Bay game. Too late IMO. What better learning experience than to play against the best. Orton isn't going to be ready. You really need to get another look at Palko?

Simply Red
11-23-2011, 06:30 PM
i think it's pimp that we get to use back the JD celebratory 'toast' gif against posters like: Vailpass and MHM,GB.....

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 06:34 PM
And the last three years, which is what is relevant, his rating is well above 80 with a TD/INT ratio of 49/28.

Oh yeah, and he can actually throw the ball over 10 yards with zip and accuracy.

You're not being "sensible."

This year, his rating is around 75. He was a decent QB under McDaniels. The only two seasons that he had above 80 passer rating.

Cassel had a better passer rating under McDaniels and Weis.

MeatRock
11-23-2011, 06:35 PM
If you're waiting on a good time to put Stanzi in then you're going to wait at least until the Green Bay game. Too late IMO. What better learning experience than to play against the best. Orton isn't going to be ready. You really need to get another look at Palko?

Groom him just like Rodgers and sit him to learn. WE have a decent veteran QB now. Let Palko sink or swim while looking forward to next year and maybe hav ing a drafted QB for competition.

jcroft
11-23-2011, 06:43 PM
I don't think Orton is great, but I do think he's a small bit better than Cassel. Their career numbers across the board are strikingly similar:

Orton: 66 starts, 58% completion, 79 TDs, 55 INTs, 79.4 Rating, 33W-34L

Cassel: 54 starts, 59% completion, 76 TDs, 46 INTs, 85.0 rating, 24W-21L

Add to that the fact that Cassel has spent more of his time on better teams, and that Orton clearly has better arm strength, and I'll take Orton. Also, add in the fact that this means we can (if we want) part ways with Cassel and resign Orton almost certainly for a lot less than Cassel's contract.

Orton doesn't win by a big margin, but he does win, in my opinion.

To me, this makes us about as good as we were with Cassel right now (which is better than we would have been with Palko), and puts us in a better position to part ways with Cassel and draft a young QB going forward. That's a good thing.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 06:44 PM
This year, his rating is around 75. He was a decent QB under McDaniels. The only two seasons that he had above 80 passer rating.

Cassel had a better passer rating under McDaniels and Weis.

Yeah, and we had the 30th ranked passing offense. Orton led the 7th.

This isn't even a debate.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 06:49 PM
I don't think Orton is great, but I do think he's a small bit better than Cassel. Their career numbers across the board are strikingly similar:

Orton: 66 starts, 58% completion, 79 TDs, 55 INTs, 79.4 Rating, 33W-34L

Cassel: 54 starts, 59% completion, 76 TDs, 46 INTs, 85.0 rating, 24W-21L

Add to that the fact that Cassel has spent more of his time on better teams, and that Orton clearly has better arm strength, and I'll take Orton. Also, add in the fact that this means we can (if we want) part ways with Cassel and resign Orton almost certainly for a lot less than Cassel's contract.

Orton doesn't win by a big margin, but he does win, in my opinion.

To me, this makes us about as good as we were with Cassel right now (which is better than we would have been with Palko), and puts us in a better position to part ways with Cassel and draft a young QB going forward. That's a good thing.

Orton wins by a big margin. But he's still not the answer. At least Orton knows what a blitz is.

Great upgrade. But only if a stopgap.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 06:51 PM
Yeah, and we had the 30th ranked passing offense. Orton led the 7th.

This isn't even a debate.

Orton was on a losing team. He had McDaniels, which as I have said, is a big key to Orton's success.

It is also a key to Cassel's success.

In 2008, Cassel was in charge of the 12th rated passing offense, and Orton was 22nd.

You are right, it shouldn't be a debate.

I hope that Orton comes in here and does great. I hope he gets along better with Haley.

I like Orton's personality better from what I can tell. Cassel really is a douche.... but, he is the more talented douche.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 06:53 PM
Cassel really is a douche.... but, he is the more talented douche.

LMAO

Have you ever watched these guys play quarterback?

Orton has a stronger arm and is more accurate. He is better at reading defenses and throwing down the field.

Cassel is more mobile. That's it.

The Iron Chief
11-23-2011, 06:55 PM
My point being is that you do not throw a rookie QB in against this pitt defense.

Why the hell not we thru Palko in against the Patriots in New England and look how that turned out! .... :doh!:

ILChief
11-23-2011, 06:59 PM
I doubt we draft a QB in round one. I think Cassel is gone. Orton is starter next year with Stanzi #2 and some other mid round QB #3. Then in 2013 it's Stanzi time.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:00 PM
LMAO

Have you ever watched these guys play quarterback?

Orton has a stronger arm and is more accurate. He is better at reading defenses and throwing down the field.

Cassel is more mobile. That's it.

Yeah, I have watched both guys play QB. Cassel is better.

Cassel has a better arm when his mechanics are solid. And, he makes better decisions.

Both are 'game manager' types. But, if given good offensive coordinators, Cassel is the better QB.

Brock
11-23-2011, 07:01 PM
LMAO

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:01 PM
I doubt we draft a QB in round one. I think Cassel is gone. Orton is starter next year with Stanzi #2 and some other mid round QB #3. Then in 2013 it's Stanzi time.

If Haley is here, I think Cassel is gone. If Haley is fired, then I think Cassel stays.

The more I think about it, I do think that Cassel and Haley don't get along very well.

And, that is is a relationship that can't be strained.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 07:03 PM
Yeah, I have watched both guys play QB. Cassel is better.

Cassel has a better arm when his mechanics are solid. And, he makes better decisions.

Both are 'game manager' types. But, if given good offensive coordinators, Cassel is the better QB.

LMAO

You didn't even address the accuracy part of the post, which is the most important attribute for a QB.

Orton is more accurate and throws the ball down the field better. That's why he has a higher YPA, more yards, and is generally a better QB.

Oh, and he does it without the #1 running game.

Our passing game is better with Orton. Accurate QBs > non-accurate QBs.

FAX
11-23-2011, 07:03 PM
Yeah, I have watched both guys play QB. Cassel is better.

Cassel has a better arm when his mechanics are solid. And, he makes better decisions.

Both are 'game manager' types. But, if given good offensive coordinators, Cassel is the better QB.

Well said, Mr. SensibleChiefsfan.

Wrong as a Mom tattoo on your butt, but well said nonetheless.

FAX

ILChief
11-23-2011, 07:04 PM
If Haley is here, I think Cassel is gone. If Haley is fired, then I think Cassel stays.

The more I think about it, I do think that Cassel and Haley don't get along very well.

And, that is is a relationship that can't be strained.

Then I hope Haley stays

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 07:04 PM
And, he makes better decisions.



Nope. It's Cassel's inability to make decisions that is his downfall. I mean it's REALLY bad. If his first read is running down the field unmolested, then perhaps Cassel is better. The other 85% of the time, give me Orton.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:06 PM
LMAO

You didn't even address the accuracy part of the post, which is the most important attribute for a QB.

Orton is more accurate and throws the ball down the field better. That's why he has a higher YPA, more yards, and is generally a better QB.

Oh, and he does it without the #1 running game.

Our passing game is better with Orton. Accurate QBs > non-accurate QBs.

Cassel is more accurate as well. Oh, and Cassel has a higher YPA.

The only reason that people have any idea that Orton is great is because of McDaniels. Orton has never posted a passer rating above 80 without McDaniels. At least Cassel did it with McDaniels and Weis.

threebag02
11-23-2011, 07:07 PM
I bet Haley has wood over this...No more Mark Cassel.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:11 PM
Nope. It's Cassel's inability to make decisions that is his downfall. I mean it's REALLY bad. If his first read is running down the field unmolested, then perhaps Cassel is better. The other 85% of the time, give me Orton.

Hey, I hope you are right.

Cassel was much better under Weis and McDaniels though. I attribute much of Cassel's issues to Haley being the OC.

In 2008, Cassel looked like a serviceable QB under McDaniels.

In 2009, he had Gailey and then Haley. He looked awful.

In 2010, he had Weis.... offensive player of the month, pro bowl selection.

2010... back to Haley being the defacto OC... and again, Cassel looks lost.

Just don't think it is coincidence that Cassel actually looks like a legit starting NFL QB when given a decent OC.

GloryDayz
11-23-2011, 07:12 PM
I think it says "Holy crap, we should have brought in a real backup QB this year."

This....

bevischief
11-23-2011, 07:12 PM
.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:13 PM
Then I hope Haley stays

I don't. I hope he is fired.

Haley would make a great personal trainer... I just think he is lacking as a HC.

jcroft
11-23-2011, 07:15 PM
Orton wins by a big margin. But he's still not the answer. At least Orton knows what a blitz is.

Great upgrade. But only if a stopgap.

Totally agreed.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 07:16 PM
Cassel is more accurate as well. Oh, and Cassel has a higher YPA.

No, he doesn't.

The Kyle Orton we're getting is the guy who started for Denver the last three years.

His yards per attempt: 7.06

His completion percentage: 60.3


Cassel's yards per attempt the last three seasons: 6.39

Cassel's completion percentage: 57.1


Orton threw the ball down the field more than Cassel and completed a higher percentage of his passes doing it.

In fact, if you look at ESPN splits, it's embarrassing.

Cassel threw the ball past 10 yards 89 times last season.

Orton threw it past 10 yards 188 times.

You are being obtuse.

FAX
11-23-2011, 07:16 PM
Wow.

This isn't about the OC, Mr. SensibleChiefsfan. Not really. The fact of the matter is that Cassel's weaknesses are related to very, very basic skill sets (or the lack, thereof). These are things like footwork, release, pocket awareness, ability to read defenses or go through progressions. They are the fundamentals of quarterbacking. If Cassel has seemed to improve under certain OCs it's due to things like strength of schedule, surrounding talent, or simply statistical anomalies like last year when we won the West and somehow the stars aligned and Cassel went to the Pro Bowl.

FAX

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 07:18 PM
Fuck the stats, SensibleChiefFan, you goddamn moron.

Did you watch the ass rape Orton laid on the Chiefs in Denver last year?

When has Cassel ever done that to a team? EVER?

A nine-game stretch with 311 yards passing per game? Cassel couldn't do that with Randy Moss on the field.

You are being obtuse. Kyle Orton clubs Matt Cassel's seal to death.

GloryDayz
11-23-2011, 07:19 PM
LOL, Mrs. Cassel put the For Sale sign back out in the yard...

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:20 PM
No, he doesn't.

The Kyle Orton we're getting is the guy who started for Denver the last three years.

His yards per attempt: 7.06

His completion percentage: 60.3


Cassel's yards per attempt the last three seasons: 6.39

Cassel's completion percentage: 57.1


Orton threw the ball down the field more than Cassel and completed a higher percentage of his passes doing it.

In fact, if you look at ESPN splits, it's embarrassing.

Cassel threw the ball past 10 yards 89 times last season.

Orton threw it past 10 yards 188 times.

You are being obtuse.

Unless McDaniels comes with Orton, we are NOT getting the Orton of the last three years. We are getting the Orton of this year and every other year NOT under McDaniels.

This year? 6.3 YPA. 8 TD's 7 Ints 75.7 rating.

Cassel this year? STILL better. 6.4 YPA, 10TD's, 9Int's 76.6 rating.

OnTheWarpath58
11-23-2011, 07:20 PM
Fuck the stats, SensibleChiefFan, you goddamn moron.

Did you watch the ass rape Orton laid on the Chiefs in Denver last year?

When has Cassel ever done that to a team? EVER?

A nine-game stretch with 311 yards passing per game? Cassel couldn't do that with Randy Moss on the field.

You are being obtuse. Kyle Orton clubs Matt Cassel's seal to death.

Does Cassel even have nine 300 yard games in his career?

threebag02
11-23-2011, 07:20 PM
Wow.

This isn't about the OC, Mr. SensibleChiefsfan. Not really. The fact of the matter is that Cassel's weaknesses are related to very, very basic skill sets (or the lack, thereof). These are things like footwork, release, pocket awareness, ability to read defenses or go through progressions. They are the fundamentals of quarterbacking. If Cassel has seemed to improve under certain OCs it's due to things like strength of schedule, surrounding talent, or simply statistical anomalies like last year when we won the West and somehow the stars aligned and Cassel went to the Pro Bowl. And everyone SHIT and fell back.

FAX

Sorry FAX but you left out the Facts

tk13
11-23-2011, 07:23 PM
Orton has a better arm than Cassel. I think ESPN actually had a stat earlier today where Orton was top 5 in the league in completion percentage on throws beyond 15 yards, believe it or not. The problem will be that Orton might start forcing it a bit too much and start throwing it in spots he shouldn't. That might work if you're Rodgers or Favre, but Orton's not at that level. I'm curious to see how he interacts with our WR's.

tk13
11-23-2011, 07:26 PM
Does Cassel even have nine 300 yard games in his career?

Actually I don't think he does. I was kind of surprised by that. He put up some large numbers the year he started with New England. He had back to back 400 yard games, which Brady had never done up to that point.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:26 PM
Wow.

This isn't about the OC, Mr. SensibleChiefsfan. Not really. The fact of the matter is that Cassel's weaknesses are related to very, very basic skill sets (or the lack, thereof). These are things like footwork, release, pocket awareness, ability to read defenses or go through progressions. They are the fundamentals of quarterbacking. If Cassel has seemed to improve under certain OCs it's due to things like strength of schedule, surrounding talent, or simply statistical anomalies like last year when we won the West and somehow the stars aligned and Cassel went to the Pro Bowl.

FAX

It is about the OC. OC's let Qb's know what to expect and how to attack a defense. In the headset, the QB will hear things like 'look for'.... and the coach will give him a heads up on who should be open based on what the defense has been doing against certain formations.

And, the more comfortable a QB gets with a specific system, the quicker he goes through progressions and the better he knows how to attack certain defenses.

I just don't think that it is coincidental that Cassel looks like a solid NFL QB in the two years that Haley wasn't his coordinator.

The more I get into this, the more I realize I dislike Haley more than I like Cassel.

I think Cassel is a douche. I just think he can be better if given better coaching that Haley is able to do.

Haley is a great 'motivator' and a great personal trainer... but, I don't see a lot of offensive innovation.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 07:29 PM
Unless McDaniels comes with Orton, we are NOT getting the Orton of the last three years. We are getting the Orton of this year and every other year NOT under McDaniels.

This year? 6.3 YPA. 8 TD's 7 Ints 75.7 rating.

Cassel this year? STILL better. 6.4 YPA, 10TD's, 9Int's 76.6 rating.

That sample size is too small.

Orton didn't suddenly forget how to throw down the field, idiot.

Cassel = 30th ranked passing offense.

I'm fairly fucking sure Orton can beat that.

I want to beat your head in with a spiked baseball bat right now.

Chief Faithful
11-23-2011, 07:31 PM
I have been reading the "War Room", a story about the Patriots methods since Belichick became HC. It gives a lot of insight into how Pioli runs scouting and how decisions are made in the draft and free agency. Pioli always scouts players based on comparisons to current Chiefs, which is the essence to the meaning of the right 53. Thus, I don't know if this is a sign of the end for Matt Cassel, but it does mean they think Orton compares better to the current Chiefs than anyone else available.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:33 PM
**** the stats, SensibleChiefFan, you goddamn moron.

Did you watch the ass rape Orton laid on the Chiefs in Denver last year?

When has Cassel ever done that to a team? EVER?

A nine-game stretch with 311 yards passing per game? Cassel couldn't do that with Randy Moss on the field.

You are being obtuse. Kyle Orton clubs Matt Cassel's seal to death.

When did he have a stretch of nine games with at least 311 yards per game. I just looked at his career stats, and I don't see it.

But, objectively, Cassel put up 3600 yards on a winning team in NE. Orton put up 3800 yards on a losing team in Denver.

Since you know little about football...teams tend to pass more when they are behind.

Again, without McDaniels, Orton is career backup material.

At least Cassel performed with McDaniels and Weis.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:35 PM
That sample size is too small.

Orton didn't suddenly forget how to throw down the field, idiot.

Cassel = 30th ranked passing offense.

I'm fairly ****ing sure Orton can beat that.

I want to beat your head in with a spiked baseball bat right now.

It is not a small sample size. IT IS EVERY FREAKING SEASON IN WHICH HE WASN'T COACHED BY JOSH MCDANIELS.

What part of that can't you get a grip on?

In Chicago, horrible QB. In Denver without McDaniels horrible QB.

What don't you get?

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:36 PM
Does Cassel even have nine 300 yard games in his career?

I think he was 'averaging' the nine games. I don't think that Orton has a string of nine games with at least 300 yards.

FAX
11-23-2011, 07:37 PM
This is a tad off-subject, but I've been paying very close attention to all of Tyler Palko's comments since he was named the starter ... and some of his statement prior, actually.

Anyhow, I just finished watching this week's presser and I have to say that I really like his attitude and approach to the game. His perspective is really pretty impressive. It seems to be true ... he's a guy who is 100% into football and "gets it". It's a shame, really, that he doesn't have the physical skills to match his mental makeup. I think he would make a really good coach some day and I hope he stays with the organization in that capacity. If, that is, he doesn't lead us to the Super Bowl this year.

FAX

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 07:37 PM
When did he have a stretch of nine games with at least 311 yards per game. I just looked at his career stats, and I don't see it.

I said he averaged 311 yards per game. Last year.


But, objectively, Cassel put up 3600 yards on a winning team in NE. Orton put up 3800 yards on a losing team in Denver.

Cassel did that with RANDY FUCKING MOSS. Orton had Brandon Lloyd. Do you not see the difference? Christ.


At least Cassel performed with McDaniels and Weis.

How is the 30th ranked passing game "performing," idiot?

You are being obtuse. No sane person can watch Orton play, watch his ability to throw the ball down the field accurately, and come away with the impression that MATTHEW FUCKING BRENNAN CASSEL, A GUY WHO SUCKS AIDS-RIDDEN DOGSHIT AT THROWING THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD, IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE'RE TRYING TO RUN THIS FRANCHISE KILLER OUT OF TOWN AND YOU'RE BEING A LITTLE PRICK OVER IT.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:46 PM
I said he averaged 311 yards per game. Last year.



Cassel did that with RANDY ****ING MOSS. Orton had Brandon Lloyd. Do you not see the difference? Christ.



How is the 30th ranked passing game "performing," idiot?

You are being obtuse. No sane person can watch Orton play, watch his ability to throw the ball down the field accurately, and come away with the impression that MATTHEW ****ING BRENNAN CASSEL, A GUY WHO SUCKS AIDS-RIDDEN DOGSHIT AT THROWING THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD, IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE'RE TRYING TO RUN THIS FRANCHISE KILLER OUT OF TOWN AND YOU'RE BEING A LITTLE PRICK OVER IT.

No, I am being objective. I don't have a problem getting an UPGRADE to Cassel. Orton isn't it.

You want to basically base Orton's success over two years with McDaniels.

McDaniels is obviously great for mediocre QB's...because both Cassel and Orton look good when they play for him.

Cassel was also effective under Weis. It isn't about putting up big numbers, it is about making good decisions and winning games. Chiefs had the 30th rated passing offense..fine... but they won the division, he was offensive player of the month and went to the pro bowl... yeah, that is performing.

Oddly, McDaniels didn't want Orton. McDaniels wanted Cassel. I guess he just can't see talent like you can.

Brock
11-23-2011, 07:49 PM
I think he was 'averaging' the nine games. I don't think that Orton has a string of nine games with at least 300 yards.

He has a six game string, and a 4 game string, then a 400 yard bomb he dropped on KC.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 07:51 PM
No, I am being objective. I don't have a problem getting an UPGRADE to Cassel. Orton isn't it.

You want to basically base Orton's success over two years with McDaniels.

McDaniels is obviously great for mediocre QB's...because both Cassel and Orton look good when they play for him.

Cassel was also effective under Weis. It isn't about putting up big numbers, it is about making good decisions and winning games. Chiefs had the 30th rated passing offense..fine... but they won the division, he was offensive player of the month and went to the pro bowl... yeah, that is performing.

Oddly, McDaniels didn't want Orton. McDaniels wanted Cassel. I guess he just can't see talent like you can.

This is all I have to say to your dumb ass.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uA_zG7n-tVI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dragonocho
11-23-2011, 07:52 PM
I said he averaged 311 yards per game. Last year.



Cassel did that with RANDY ****ING MOSS. Orton had Brandon Lloyd. Do you not see the difference? Christ.



How is the 30th ranked passing game "performing," idiot?

You are being obtuse. No sane person can watch Orton play, watch his ability to throw the ball down the field accurately, and come away with the impression that MATTHEW ****ING BRENNAN CASSEL, A GUY WHO SUCKS AIDS-RIDDEN DOGSHIT AT THROWING THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD, IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE'RE TRYING TO RUN THIS FRANCHISE KILLER OUT OF TOWN AND YOU'RE BEING A LITTLE PRICK OVER IT.

This x 100

OnTheWarpath58
11-23-2011, 07:54 PM
He has a six game string, and a 4 game string, then a 400 yard bomb he dropped on KC.

Matt Cassel has three 300+ yard games in 3 years as a Chief.

One was against Cleveland, where they were playing a WR at DB.

One was against Denver down 20-30 points the entire game.

Sling it, Matt.

LMAO

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 07:54 PM
Kyle Orton can only throw the ball down the field if Josh McDaniels is standing on the sidelines. Josh McDaniels is actually a wizard who can perform arcane magicks.

He enchants Orton's throwing arm on every snap so that he can throw the ball down the field.

McDaniels is gone, so Orton no longer has the ability to throw the ball down the field. He has lost that ability completely.

Charlie Weis also has knowledge of these magicks, but to a lesser degree. His enchantments enable Matt Cassel to be "effective", but not as effective as 29 other starting quarterbacks.

Fuck you, SensiblePieceOfShit

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 07:56 PM
He has a six game string, and a 4 game string, then a 400 yard bomb he dropped on KC.

I am not saying that Cassel is great. But, he is better than Orton.

If the positions were switched, the fans in KC would be talking about how great Cassel is in Denver, and why didn't the Chiefs trade for him and how could Pioli be so stupid since he was with the Pats.

JMO.

I hope that Orton is great with Haley. I think sometimes, certain guys just work better with each other. I hope that is the case with Orton and Haley.

Cassel has to hope that either Haley gets fired or he gets traded.

Because he just isn't the same guy under a Haley coordinated offense.

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 07:56 PM
Matt Cassel has three 300-yard games in 3 years as a Chief.

One was against Cleveland, where they were playing a WR at DB.

One was against Denver down 20-30 points the entire game.

Sling it, Matt.

LMAO

I knew he had very few, but surprised it is that low. Hell, he almost certainly has more sub-100 games than 300+ games. Laughable in this day and age.

OnTheWarpath58
11-23-2011, 07:57 PM
Matt Cassel has three 300+ yard games in 3 years as a Chief.

One was against Cleveland, where they were playing a WR at DB.

One was against Denver down 20-30 points the entire game.

Sling it, Matt.

LMAO


FWIW, Andy fucking Dalton has two 300-yard games and a 298 game in 10 starts as a rookie.

LMAO

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 07:59 PM
Because he just isn't the same guy under a Haley coordinated offense.

LMAO

He's the same guy playing a more difficult schedule with no running game.

He was an inaccurate downfield passer in New England, and Every. Fucking. Season in Kansas City he's been the same asshole.

Go fuck yourself.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:00 PM
Kyle Orton can only throw the ball down the field if Josh McDaniels is standing on the sidelines. Josh McDaniels is actually a wizard who can perform arcane magicks.

He enchants Orton's throwing arm on every snap so that he can throw the ball down the field.

McDaniels is gone, so Orton no longer has the ability to throw the ball down the field. He has lost that ability completely.

Charlie Weis also has knowledge of these magicks, but to a lesser degree. His enchantments enable Matt Cassel to be "effective", but not as effective as 29 other starting quarterbacks.

**** you, SensiblePieceOfShit

Yeah, because Kyle Orton has looked freaking great EVERY OTHER FREAKING YEAR that he wasn't coached by McDaniels.....(including this one)

That 75 passer rating gives me a chubby just thinking about it.

Mr_Tomahawk
11-23-2011, 08:02 PM
Yeah, because Kyle Orton has looked freaking great EVERY OTHER FREAKING YEAR that he wasn't coached by McDaniels.....(including this one)

That 75 passer rating gives me a chubby just thinking about it.

Cassel was his most productive under Charlie. Charlie is no longer with us. Now what?

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:02 PM
LMAO

He's the same guy playing a more difficult schedule with no running game.

He was an inaccurate downfield passer in New England, and Every. ****ing. Season in Kansas City he's been the same asshole.

Go **** yourself.

Which is why I don't put any faith in Orton who is worse.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 08:03 PM
I tell you what, Sensible.

When Kyle Orton rapes secondaries these last six games throwing to the best set of wide receivers he's ever played with, and Josh McDaniels is nowhere near the fucking football field, you can suck my cock.

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 08:03 PM
Yeah, because Kyle Orton has looked freaking great EVERY OTHER FREAKING YEAR that he wasn't coached by McDaniels.....(including this one)

That 75 passer rating gives me a chubby just thinking about it.

Lots of noise in interceptions, which drive QB ratings. Cassel is a joke because of his YPA, which should be weighted way more heavily.

OnTheWarpath58
11-23-2011, 08:03 PM
I knew he had very few, but surprised it is that low. Hell, he almost certainly has more sub-100 games than 300+ games. Laughable in this day and age.

39 games starting for the Chiefs:


30 under 250 yards passing.

26 under 225.

19 under 200.

9 games under 150.

5 games under 100.


So yeah, he has two more sub-100 yard passing games than he does 300+ yard passing games.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:05 PM
Cassel was his most productive under Charlie. Charlie is no longer with us. Now what?

Cassel was the most productive under McDaniels. He was also productive under Weis.

Now, we find a decent OC....because Todd Haley isn't one.

Cassel isn't great, but he can at least win games when given a decent OC.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:06 PM
Lots of noise in interceptions, which drive QB ratings. Cassel is a joke because of his YPA, which should be weighted way more heavily.

His career YPA is higher than Orton's.

Again, not defending Cassel as much as I am pointing out that Orton isn't an upgrade.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 08:06 PM
I want to fist you with lit sticks of dynamite.

FAX
11-23-2011, 08:06 PM
Wow.

How is it possible to throw for less than 100 yards in today's NFL? I mean, seriously ... how can you do that?

Do they deduct yards for looking like Howdy Doody?

FAX

FAX
11-23-2011, 08:07 PM
Cassel was the most productive under McDaniels. He was also productive under Weis.

Now, we find a decent OC....because Todd Haley isn't one.

Cassel isn't great, but he can at least win games when given a decent OC.

Damn, dude.

You are starting to freak me out.

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
11-23-2011, 08:07 PM
I want to fist you with lit sticks of dynamite.

Do us all a favor, and either put him on ignore, or have the willpower to ignore him.

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 08:08 PM
His career YPA is higher than Orton's.

Again, not defending Cassel as much as I am pointing out that Orton isn't an upgrade.

Seriously, Tyler Palko is an upgrade over Matt Cassel.

OnTheWarpath58
11-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Wow.

How is it possible to throw for less than 100 yards in today's NFL? I mean, seriously ... how can you do that?

Do they deduct yards for looking like Howdy Doody's brother Matty?

FAX

The NFL is a QB-driven, passing league, Mr. FAX.

And our Executive of the Decade's handpicked QB has broken the 300 yard mark a whopping 3 times in 39 games.

Nearly HALF of his starts have resulted in less than 200 passing yards.

Chew on that.

Brianfo
11-23-2011, 08:11 PM
I tell you what, Sensible.

When Kyle Orton rapes secondaries these last six games throwing to the best set of wide receivers he's ever played with, and Josh McDaniels is nowhere near the ****ing football field, you can suck my cock.

Hey dude, do you have a life or do you just hang out in your mom's house?

FAX
11-23-2011, 08:13 PM
The NFL is a QB-driven, passing league, Mr. FAX.

And our Executive of the Decade's handpicked QB has broken the 300 yard mark a whopping 3 times in 39 games.

Nearly HALF of his starts have resulted in less than 200 passing yards.

Chew on that.

Seriously, though ...

How do you pass for less than 100 yards? Did we not throw the ball at all?

I mean ... let's say you average 5 yards per pass. You throw it 20 times and you get 100 yards. That's 5 completed passes per quarter ... like 2 passes per series or something, maybe.

If you average 10 yards per pass, it's 2.5 passes per quarter or less than 1 completed pass per series ... assuming, of course, that you actually get the ball on offense.

I honestly don't see how it's possible to throw for less than 100. Unless, that is, you're getting sacked a lot. They deduct for sacks ... correct?

FAX

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 08:15 PM
I mean ... let's say you average 5 yards per pass.

Cassel has averaged 5 yards per pass attempt or less 9 times as a Chief.

FAX
11-23-2011, 08:18 PM
Cassel has averaged 5 yards per pass attempt or less 9 times as a Chief.

I mean 5 yards per completion. You would have to throw 20 times a game and average 5 yards per completion to hit the 100 mark. That's it. That's all you would have to do.

I am really struggling trying to figure out just how you throw for less than 100 yards per game in this league.

FAX

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:20 PM
I tell you what, Sensible.

When Kyle Orton rapes secondaries these last six games throwing to the best set of wide receivers he's ever played with, and Josh McDaniels is nowhere near the ****ing football field, you can suck my cock.

The Chiefs WR's don't get much separation. I think much of that is the offense. Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin can fight for the ball, but they don't give the QB as big of windows to throw the ball in.

The hope that Orton has is the long ball. Given that the Chiefs WR's are big and fight for the ball....hopefully, this works out.

But, the problem is that the offensive line won't give him the protection he needs to go deep.

The line in Denver was better by a good bit than the Chiefs have had here.

I do hope you are are right. I like Haley's personality more than I like Cassel's.

I would rather the Chiefs keep Haley than Cassel based on Cassel's sheer douchyness.

But, I think that Orton will just further prove that Haley is inferior to a legit OC.

OnTheWarpath58
11-23-2011, 08:21 PM
Seriously, though ...

How do you pass for less than 100 yards? Did we not throw the ball at all?

I mean ... let's say you average 5 yards per pass. You throw it 20 times and you get 100 yards. That's 5 completed passes per quarter ... like 2 passes per series or something, maybe.

If you average 10 yards per pass, it's 2.5 passes per quarter or less than 1 completed pass per series ... assuming, of course, that you actually get the ball on offense.

I honestly don't see how it's possible to throw for less than 100. Unless, that is, you're getting sacked a lot. They deduct for sacks ... correct?

FAX

Sack yardage isn't deducted from a QB's passing stats.

In the 5 games in question, Cassel has attempted an average of 24.4 passes per game. (29, 28, 25, 22, 18)

He's only averaging 11.4 completions. (10, 10, 10, 13, 14)

So when you consider he's only completing around 46% of his passes, and throwing a lot of dumpoffs and checkdowns on the passes he does complete - low yardage.

Bottom line?

As we already know, he just flat out fucking sucks.

DBOSHO
11-23-2011, 08:21 PM
Orton has never had the recievers to throw to that hes gonna have here. His deep ball is pretty impressive. It will be interesting to see what he can do.

Its been frustrating that we have 2 power forwards at wr and noone will throw it up to them.

Brock
11-23-2011, 08:21 PM
The Chiefs WR's don't get much separation. I think much of that is the offense. Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin can fight for the ball, but they don't give the QB as big of windows to throw the ball in..

It's going to be quite humorous to see how open Chiefs receivers suddenly are when Orton steps in.

OnTheWarpath58
11-23-2011, 08:22 PM
It's going to be quite humorous to see how open Chiefs receivers suddenly are when Orton steps in.

They were open Monday night.

Palko just wasn't terribly accurate.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:24 PM
It's going to be quite humorous to see how open Chiefs receivers suddenly are when Orton steps in.

I really hope you are right.

I don't think Cassel is great, but I think he is better than Kyle freaking Orton.

Amazing how this board suddenly loves him now that he is a Chief.

ABC. Anyone But Cassel.

I get it, I am sick of Cassel too. But, to say that Orton is an upgrade? C'mon.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:25 PM
They were open Monday night.

Palko just wasn't terribly accurate.

Against the 32nd defense in the league with substantial injuries in the secondary?

I guess so.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 08:25 PM
It's too bad Dwayne Bowe, Steve Breaston and Jonathan Baldwin don't hold a candle to Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney and Eddie Royal.

Orton's screwed.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:28 PM
Orton has never had the recievers to throw to that hes gonna have here. His deep ball is pretty impressive. It will be interesting to see what he can do.

Its been frustrating that we have 2 power forwards at wr and noone will throw it up to them.

That is the one thing that peaks my interest. I hope that Haley doesn't handcuff Orton.

I would like him to take more shots downfield than Cassel. I know he will turn the ball over more, but at least, the games will be more exciting.

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 08:28 PM
But, I think that Orton will just further prove that Haley is inferior to a legit OC.


Warner put up pretty good stats with Haley. If I remember, in the Super Bowl no team had passed for 300 yards against Pittsburgh and Warner put up 400.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:33 PM
It's too bad Dwayne Bowe, Steve Breaston and Jonathan Baldwin don't hold a candle to Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney and Eddie Royal.

Orton's screwed.

Amazing what McDaniels was able to get out of those guys.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 08:36 PM
They were open Monday night.

Palko just wasn't terribly accurate.

Tyler Palko proved a lot of things.

He showed how a real QB scans the defense and moves his blockers to adjust for the blitz. The pass protection was decent and the blockers he moved definitely absorbed a blitzer.

He showed us that receivers get open. He made smart decisions (he just doesn't have the arm to get it there accurately or make all the throws).

And he showed that a QB is more than welcome to take charge of the offense. While Cassel looked at the sideline disgustingly for the playcall, Palko's first reaction was to immediately go to his armband and sprint to the line to get the snap in.

And through it all, if you ignore the score, a midget, noodle-armed QB who literally can't make more than half of the throws ended up looking better than our tall, reasonably strong-armed QB.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 08:37 PM
NO WAY KYLE ORTON IS BETTER THAN CASSEL, BROS!

http://i42.tinypic.com/x54fsz.jpg

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 08:39 PM
I really hope you are right.

I don't think Cassel is great, but I think he is better than Kyle freaking Orton.

Amazing how this board suddenly loves him now that he is a Chief.

ABC. Anyone But Cassel.

I get it, I am sick of Cassel too. But, to say that Orton is an upgrade? C'mon.

Nobody loves that he is a Chief. We just hate that Cassel is a Chief.

Orton is significantly better than Cassel. C'mon. Orton actually picks up the blitz protections and he can actually throw a deep ball. He's not accurate, but more accurate than Cassel. He doesn't have a strong arm, but it's stronger than Cassel's. And unlike Cassel, he can command an offense.

It's a significant upgrade.

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 08:40 PM
Tyler Palko proved a lot of things.

He showed how a real QB scans the defense and moves his blockers to adjust for the blitz. The pass protection was decent and the blockers he moved definitely absorbed a blitzer.

He showed us that receivers get open. He made smart decisions (he just doesn't have the arm to get it there accurately or make all the throws).

And he showed that a QB is more than welcome to take charge of the offense. While Cassel looked at the sideline disgustingly for the playcall, Palko's first reaction was to immediately go to his armband and sprint to the line to get the snap in.

And through it all, if you ignore the score, a midget, noodle-armed QB who literally can't make more than half of the throws ended up looking better than our tall, reasonably strong-armed QB.

Yeah, strange how there were no problems getting the plays in on time. I actually blamed the coaches for that, but evidently somehow Cassel was ****ing that up, too. Amazing.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:43 PM
Warner put up pretty good stats with Haley. If I remember, in the Super Bowl no team had passed for 300 yards against Pittsburgh and Warner put up 400.

Warner is light years ahead of Cassel or Orton.

And, Fitzgerald, Boldin and Breaston are pretty dang good as well.

I think with this talent, coordinating the offense is a little bit easier.

I think the offensive line was better as well.

And, other than last year with JC, the Cardinals backfield was better.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:45 PM
Yeah, strange how there were no problems getting the plays in on time. I actually blamed the coaches for that, but evidently somehow Cassel was ****ing that up, too. Amazing.

How? Seriously, how can you blame Cassel for THIS?

I think it is that Haley was calling the plays and there wasn't 'discussion' in between each play.

Brock
11-23-2011, 08:45 PM
Muir was on the sidelines too, so they may have just unplugged his mike.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:47 PM
NO WAY KYLE ORTON IS BETTER THAN CASSEL, BROS!

http://i42.tinypic.com/x54fsz.jpg

Where is this from?

Brock
11-23-2011, 08:48 PM
Looks like pro football reference.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 08:49 PM
How? Seriously, how can you blame Cassel for THIS?

I think it is that Haley was calling the plays and there wasn't 'discussion' in between each play.

In 3 years, regardless of the playcaller, I have never, ever seen Cassel take command of the offense the way Palko did. I have rarely ever seen him make an adjustment to account for the blitz. I have rarely ever seen him hit a hot route, which means he is blind that a blitz is coming. I see QBs constantly pointing around, moving blockers, etc... Not Cassel.

It's not like this just started happening this year.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:49 PM
Nobody loves that he is a Chief. We just hate that Cassel is a Chief.

Orton is significantly better than Cassel. C'mon. Orton actually picks up the blitz protections and he can actually throw a deep ball. He's not accurate, but more accurate than Cassel. He doesn't have a strong arm, but it's stronger than Cassel's. And unlike Cassel, he can command an offense.

It's a significant upgrade.

I think that Orton will do a better job of commanding the offense and will show more confidence.

At least, I hope so. Watching Cassel when things weren't going well was painful.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:50 PM
In 3 years, regardless of the playcaller, I have never, ever seen Cassel take command of the offense the way Palko did. I have rarely ever seen him make an adjustment to account for the blitz. I have rarely ever seen him hit a hot route, which means he is blind that a blitz is coming. I see QBs constantly pointing around, moving blockers, etc... Not Cassel.

It's not like this just started happening this year.

At the risk of sounding like an ass, then you haven't been paying attention...especially last year.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 08:52 PM
Where is this from?

Why does it matter?

Kyle Orton has lost his wizard, Josh McDaniels, therefore all the magic is gone from his arm.

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 08:52 PM
How? Seriously, how can you blame Cassel for THIS?

I think it is that Haley was calling the plays and there wasn't 'discussion' in between each play.

The New England game was such a departure in a lot of ways. If you're right, it's just evidence that Haley simply cannot work with Matt Cassel. I prefer it to be Cassel that is gone, but if he's not, you can't bring Haley back. I think Haley hates deal with Cassel more than we do.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:53 PM
Looks like pro football reference.

Thanks.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:56 PM
The New England game was such a departure in a lot of ways. If you're right, it's just evidence that Haley simply cannot work with Matt Cassel. I prefer it to be Cassel that is gone, but if he's not, you can't bring Haley back. I think Haley hates deal with Cassel more than we do.

I am beginning to agree. I think Cassel and he do not work well together.

I personally want Haley gone anyways. I am fine if Cassel goes with him.

It is one thing to have one fluke season.... but Cassel looked solid under two different OC's on two different teams. The only OC he hasn't looked good with is Haley. I know that Muir is supposedly the guy this year...but I think that is in name only.

Now, this doesn't change the fact that I think Cassel is a douche and I would be fine with him leaving.

I just don't see Orton as an upgrade. I see Orton as a lateral move at best.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 08:58 PM
Why does it matter?

Kyle Orton has lost his wizard, Josh McDaniels, therefore all the magic is gone from his arm.

No, he looked great in all those other years....especially this year when he had the same talent around him as last year.... yet didn't perform nearly as well.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 09:03 PM
That's because the magic was GONE.

Also, apparently Josh McDaniels has been possessed by an EVIL wizard versed in the dark arts because Sam Bradford SUCKS this year.

Oh, that Josh McDaniels! He was once a great sorcerer and conjurer of deep pass magicks! Now his light has gone out of this universe. How will the world of magic every recover? Has the dark lord returned?

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 09:05 PM
No, he looked great in all those other years....especially this year when he had the same talent around him as last year.... yet didn't perform nearly as well.

Tell Rams fans how good JM is.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 09:15 PM
Tell Rams fans how good JM is.

It has been a struggle this year. I don't really get it.

He was able to make chicken salad with Orton and Cassel for crying out loud.

Maybe he just can't work with first round picks?

I will be interested to see if he sticks around in St. Louis if the Chiefs don't throw the head coaching job his way.

BCD
11-23-2011, 09:35 PM
I am beginning to agree. I think Cassel and he do not work well together.

I personally want Haley gone anyways. I am fine if Cassel goes with him.

It is one thing to have one fluke season.... but Cassel looked solid under two different OC's on two different teams. The only OC he hasn't looked good with is Haley. I know that Muir is supposedly the guy this year...but I think that is in name only.

Now, this doesn't change the fact that I think Cassel is a douche and I would be fine with him leaving.

I just don't see Orton as an upgrade. I see Orton as a lateral move at best.

You are FINE with Cassel leaving?

Orton is not an upgrade?

Wtf?

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 09:53 PM
Has Cassel done an interviews since his injury?

FAX
11-23-2011, 09:54 PM
Has Cassel done an interviews since his injury?

Just the one where he said he wasn't injured.

FAX

BCD
11-23-2011, 09:54 PM
Has Cassel done an interviews since his injury?

Not that I've seen. No one cares.

evolve27
11-23-2011, 09:57 PM
4 back-up qb's on our roster. Now time to draft a starter

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 09:58 PM
Just the one where he said he wasn't injured.

FAX

Apparently he reads x-rays as well as he reads defenses.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 09:59 PM
Not that I've seen. No one cares.

I do.

I would like to know what he thinks of his relationship with Haley.

GordonGekko
11-23-2011, 10:00 PM
Just currious what you think if anything the orton move says??

To me the Orton move talks about the current coaching staff and their desperation to salvage the season. What is really underwhelming is that had Matt Cassel not been injured I have a strong feeling the front office would of rode with him into the ground, and not done anything drastic like get Orton.

BCD
11-23-2011, 10:01 PM
Apparently he reads x-rays as well as he reads defenses.

I still think this whole thing is a sham. I don't think Cassel is injured at all. Haley was sick of his shit so they manufacture and injury. Cassel saves face.

GordonGekko
11-23-2011, 10:01 PM
4 back-up qb's on our roster. Now time to draft a starter

Cassel is a solid back-up, cut his pay by 9/10 and keep him around to hold the clipboard in 2012-13 season.

Bust Haley down to WR coach and let's bring in a solid vet HC and a good starting QB, preferably through draft, and let's win some games.

Caseyguyrr
11-23-2011, 10:02 PM
i NEVER want to see Cassels in a chiefs uniform again, period

Fruit Ninja
11-23-2011, 10:03 PM
Kyle Orton has at least had some damned good games, cassels great games are just average games for top qb's lol

Its a slight step up though thats for sure, but i rather just play out with what we got. Draft picks!

BCD
11-23-2011, 10:03 PM
I do.

I would like to know what he thinks of his relationship with Haley.

LOL yeah, like he'd be honest about that in an interview.

BCD
11-23-2011, 10:04 PM
i NEVER want to see Cassels in a chiefs uniform again, period

This x infinity + 1

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 10:05 PM
I still think this whole thing is a sham. I don't think Cassel is injured at all. Haley was sick of his shit so they manufacture and injury. Cassel saves face.

I wonder about this as well.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 10:31 PM
I am beginning to agree. I think Cassel and he do not work well together.

I personally want Haley gone anyways. I am fine if Cassel goes with him.

It is one thing to have one fluke season.... but Cassel looked solid under two different OC's on two different teams. The only OC he hasn't looked good with is Haley. I know that Muir is supposedly the guy this year...but I think that is in name only.

Now, this doesn't change the fact that I think Cassel is a douche and I would be fine with him leaving.

I just don't see Orton as an upgrade. I see Orton as a lateral move at best.

I don't know how you managed to flip this to look like Haley ruined Cassel. Cassel isn't very good, and he did NOT look good under Weis. Anyone who actually watched games knows this.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 10:35 PM
I don't know how you managed to flip this to look like Haley ruined Cassel. Cassel isn't very good, and he did NOT look good under Weis. Anyone who actually watched games knows this.

He didn't look like Aaron Rodgers, but he looked like a legit starting NFL QB.

Come on, can we get over the revisionist history? At least be intellectually honest.

It may not be Haley's 'fault'... but he certainly looked light years better under McDaniels and Weis.

He was offensive player of the month and an injury replacement for the pro bowl. A far cry from what he has looked like in 2009 and 2011.

Douche Baggins
11-23-2011, 10:39 PM
He didn't look like Aaron Rodgers, but he looked like a legit starting NFL QB.


Who was 30th in the fucking league in passing yards?? And 26th in completion percentage?

The only thing that made him look competent was Bowe scoring a bunch of touchdowns.

He looked like exactly what he is: a guy who can be carried to a championship and will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER drive a team anywhere.

Any QB with half a brain could do what Cassel did last season. For fuck's sake, Derek Anderson once threw a bunch of TDs and led a team to 10 wins.

Guru
11-23-2011, 10:42 PM
probably not the end of CAssel in KC

Psyko Tek
11-23-2011, 10:42 PM
this, but i do think that either Haley or Cassel is gone after this year.

Harbaugh can make the best of Smith
Gailey can make the best of Fitzpatrick

How did Haley do at making the best of Cassel?

Imo that is the question Pioli needs to answer for himself in determining who stays and who goes.

can't make chicken salad from chicken shit

but a good OC would have made it better
thinking muir goes back to O line which is failing hard this year zorn gets qbs and haley tries to OC again next year

Mr_Tomahawk
11-23-2011, 10:43 PM
He didn't look like Aaron Rodgers, but he looked like a legit starting NFL QB.

Come on, can we get over the revisionist history? At least be intellectually honest.

It may not be Haley's 'fault'... but he certainly looked light years better under McDaniels and Weis.

He was offensive player of the month and an injury replacement for the pro bowl. A far cry from what he has looked like in 2009 and 2011.

I am going to pull the "Jamaal Charles is the reason for Matt Cassels success last year" Card.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 10:51 PM
I am going to pull the "Jamaal Charles is the reason for Matt Cassels success last year" Card.

Certainly helped.

But, the offensvie line didn't. And, not having a decent WR not named Bowe didn't.

And, he didn't have a great RB in NE.

Again, I don't think Cassel is great. I don't even really want him here. But, I think his failure is a big mark against Haley.

The fact that he looks decent for McDaniels or Weis and then fails for Haley is an indication of Haley's ability.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 10:55 PM
He didn't look like Aaron Rodgers, but he looked like a legit starting NFL QB.

Come on, can we get over the revisionist history? At least be intellectually honest.

It may not be Haley's 'fault'... but he certainly looked light years better under McDaniels and Weis.

He was offensive player of the month and an injury replacement for the pro bowl. A far cry from what he has looked like in 2009 and 2011.

He thrashed the NFC West. Congratulations. Here are his other wins:
-SD - 10/22 - 68 yards - 1 TD/0 INT
-Cle - 16/28 - 176 yards - 0 TD/2 INT
-Jax - 13/18 - 193 yards - 2 TD/0 INT
-Buf - 14/26 - 152 yards (in OT) - 1 TD/0 INT
-Den - 17/31 - 196 yards - 1 TD/0 INT
-Ten - 24/34 - 314 yards - 3 TD/0 INT
When 5 of the 6 non-NFC West wins, you don't throw more than 200 yards and when 4 out of 6 of those games you only throw 1 TD... Jamaal Charles made the game very easy for Cassel. He forced 8 men in the box, defenses DARED Cassel to throw at them, and yet Cassel had one of the worst downfield passing accuracies, had a horrendous 3rd down efficiency, and was horrendous in the 4th quarter. But people pat him on the back because the Chiefs won games and he didn't commit turnovers. Pretty nice job when your job is to check down to avoid making mistakes.

But stats aside, why does Cassel suck? Because in 3 years, regardless of offensive coordinator... he is one of the least accurate downfield passers in the game (except for gimmick plays). He has a limited history of late game / 4th quarter heroics. He is horrible at reading the blitz, which cripples his pass protection. He continually dumps off to his checkdown before giving time to go through his progressions. He more often than not stares down his primary receiver. He never recognizes the hot route. He continually cripples the defense because it takes him a quarter and a half to get going. He doesn't make good pre-snap adjustments. And in games where the running game/defense have slipped, 9 times out of 10, he has struggled to be the guy that takes the game over. I'm not going to let an okay statistical season change my opinion that the guy cripples this team.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 11:05 PM
Certainly helped.

But, the offensvie line didn't. And, not having a decent WR not named Bowe didn't.

And, he didn't have a great RB in NE.

Again, I don't think Cassel is great. I don't even really want him here. But, I think his failure is a big mark against Haley.

The fact that he looks decent for McDaniels or Weis and then fails for Haley is an indication of Haley's ability.

Cassel cripples his line by poor blitz recognition, inability to read hot routes, and really lousy pocket presence. And Weis and Zorn are two very good QB coaches who couldn't coach this out of him. He just doesn't have it. That's NOT on coaching.

Downfield accuracy is very difficult to teach. He does NOT have it, and it limits the Chiefs' pass offense.

Cassel looked "good" under Weis because of Jamaal Charles. Purely. Cassel looked good under McDaniels because of Moss and Welker. But with Moss, you can afford to stare him down and force a bad pass to him.

You're overselling the OC's contribution to the success and completely ignoring that his one great year and his one ridiculously overrated year were driven by his supporting cast.

BCD
11-23-2011, 11:31 PM
I have a feeling, when Orton gets up to speed, we are going to see just how lousy of a QB Cassel really was.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-23-2011, 11:57 PM
I think this move was more for next year than it was for this year. I think they'll keep Orton, cut Cassel and draft a QB in the first round. This wasn't an attempt to win the division this year IMO. They didn't claim Orton to be a back up

Brock
11-24-2011, 12:02 AM
I think this move was more for next year than it was for this year. I think they'll keep Orton, cut Cassel and draft a QB in the first round. This wasn't an attempt to win the division this year IMO. They didn't claim Orton to be a back up

You got everything right except for the draft a QB part.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-24-2011, 12:05 AM
You got everything right except for the draft a QB part.

Lol let's hope we do. But I'm not holding my breath

DeezNutz
11-24-2011, 12:05 AM
Hey look! Someone else's trash! Should we trade a first for it??!!!??/ Carl Pioli

BCD
11-24-2011, 12:21 AM
Hey look! Someone else's trash! Should we trade a first for it??!!!??/ Carl Pioli

This would be funny if they had actually given anything up for him.

DeezNutz
11-24-2011, 12:29 AM
This would be funny if they had actually given anything up for him.

Yeah, they didn't give up anything. /Stanzi's opportunity.

Same shit, different GM; this organization is a ****ing joke.

chiefzilla1501
11-24-2011, 01:35 AM
Yeah, they didn't give up anything. /Stanzi's opportunity.

Same shit, different GM; this organization is a ****ing joke.

I've long said that I want to see what Haley can do with a decent QB. Orton is a great test for that. I don't think it's particularly fair that Haley has 7 games with a QB who knows nothing of the playbook to make that case, but I'd hate for him to be canned because the GM failed to give him a QB he could open his playbook with.

We learn nothing of Stanzi, but I think at least for the last 4 games, we'll learn a lot about Haley. That's important because I really believe that canning Haley is blaming the wrong guy for our problems, and the head coach is just as important to this team as the QB.

Tuckdaddy
11-24-2011, 03:18 AM
I've long said that I want to see what Haley can do with a decent QB. Orton is a great test for that. I don't think it's particularly fair that Haley has 7 games with a QB who knows nothing of the playbook to make that case, but I'd hate for him to be canned because the GM failed to give him a QB he could open his playbook with.

We learn nothing of Stanzi, but I think at least for the last 4 games, we'll learn a lot about Haley. That's important because I really believe that canning Haley is blaming the wrong guy for our problems, and the head coach is just as important to this team as the QB.

I want Haley to stay because continuity counts in the NFL. Turning over coach after coach is like starting over every few years. It sucks for him that he was given such a turd at QB. If we had a good QB we would be a playoff team even with our IR problems.

bevischief
11-24-2011, 03:22 AM
Hey look! Someone else's trash! Should we trade a first for it??!!!??/ Carl Pioli

This isn't the Raiders.

BCD
11-24-2011, 04:12 AM
Yeah, they didn't give up anything. /Stanzi's opportunity.

Same shit, different GM; this organization is a ****ing joke.

By all means, continue on with your tantrum, but they had 2 QBs with minimal NFL experience. What else should they do?

tredadda
11-24-2011, 05:54 AM
I don't believe that bringing in Orton means anything for Cassel's future as a starter here. What I see is this team still believing that it has a shot at the playoffs trying to find someone out for the final push. They don't think Palko or Stanzi are the guys, so they bring in Orton. It would have been different if Cassel had still been healthy and we made this move. This move is utterly pointless, but that is why the F.O. made it, to possibly make a playoff push with a QB that won 5 games in two years and was replaced by Tebow this year.

FAX
11-24-2011, 06:26 AM
I don't believe that bringing in Orton means anything for Cassel's future as a starter here. What I see is this team still believing that it has a shot at the playoffs trying to find someone out for the final push. They don't think Palko or Stanzi are the guys, so they bring in Orton. It would have been different if Cassel had still been healthy and we made this move. This move is utterly pointless, but that is why the F.O. made it, to possibly make a playoff push with a QB that won 5 games in two years and was replaced by Tebow this year.

Maybe, Mr. tredadda. Maybe.

Nevertheless, it's a signal. Like a Bat-Signal proudly shining far up into the evening clouds and emanating from the radiant glow of Pioli's pale buttocks calling for courage and stalwartness and valor and intrepidity and saying, "Pack Your Trash, You Busted-Handed, 4th-Down-Sack-Taking, Doofus-Grinning Oaf."

Or words to that effect.

FAX

griZZly64
11-24-2011, 07:20 AM
God I hope so. I've been patient w/ Cassel but he's flat out not the answer. However I'm also kind of bummed that we won't get to see Stanzi get a shot on the field. I hate the fact that KC will never develop their own QB, but they'll take anyones scraps.

11 Weeks and a lockout is your idea of developing a QB? Development doesn't happen over night. This isn't 1 Hour Photo. If Stanzi had been the backup for 3 years and didn't get a shot then I would agree with your gripe. But a 5th round pick with a lockout disrupting his time to prepare for the season... is just barely starting to be developed.


...And to answer the topic. I think Orton is a necessity right now at this moment. I also believe if he plays well that maybe it could mean a battle for the reins. There's no risks in this move. We can use him then discard him if he's not an upgrade. Hopefully he utilizes our great receiving core better than Cassel. Thats the best case scenario. Either way I don't believe Orton is a franchise QB either. I root for our players but I think we need draft a QB early in the draft.

threebag02
11-24-2011, 07:27 AM
I've seen Peanut Vendors with better/more accurate arms than Matt Cassel.

BoneKrusher
11-24-2011, 07:32 AM
I've seen Peanut Vendors with better/more accurate arms than Matt Cassel.

LMAO
:thumb:

3rd&48ers
11-24-2011, 07:36 AM
Matt Cassel still loves you

FringeNC
11-24-2011, 07:58 AM
Certainly helped.

But, the offensvie line didn't. And, not having a decent WR not named Bowe didn't.

And, he didn't have a great RB in NE.

Again, I don't think Cassel is great. I don't even really want him here. But, I think his failure is a big mark against Haley.

The fact that he looks decent for McDaniels or Weis and then fails for Haley is an indication of Haley's ability.

Go back to 2009, second half of the season, after Haley put in Charles, and you will see Cassel having some success. Sure, he threw some INTs, but he was completing passes and we had some semblance of an air attack. It's not Weis, it's Charles.

threebag02
11-24-2011, 08:02 AM
SensibleCasselFan let it go it wasnt your 60+million dollars it was Clark's.

L.A. Chieffan
11-24-2011, 08:03 AM
Cassels a winner guys and hes supremely tough. I wouldnt put it past him to be back for the playoffs.

stonedstooge
11-24-2011, 08:04 AM
Cassels a winner guys and hes supremely tough. I wouldnt put it past him to be back for the playoffs.

To watch them with Herm?

L.A. Chieffan
11-24-2011, 08:06 AM
To watch them with Herm?

Uh no, to play in. Except there might be an issue with who to start Orton or Cassel kinda like Gannon or Grbac all over again

BoneKrusher
11-24-2011, 08:07 AM
Cassels a winner guys and hes supremely tough. I wouldnt put it past him to be back for the playoffs.

ya i agree, to watch on TV.

stonedstooge
11-24-2011, 08:07 AM
Uh no, to play in. Except there might be an issue with who to start Orton or Cassel kinda like Gannon or Grbac all over again

ROFL

threebag02
11-24-2011, 08:07 AM
I just hope for Cassel it wasn't the thumb he usually has in his ass.

BoneKrusher
11-24-2011, 08:08 AM
I just hope for Cassel it wasn't the thumb he usually has in his ass.

LMAO

if it was he may have to use Pioli's.

Chiefshrink
11-24-2011, 08:09 AM
Just currious what you think if anything the orton move says??

Let's just say this, the competition for next yr just got a whole lot tougher for Cassel in which he has never been threatened by anyone since he has been here.

Orton is a system QB and when given the time and talent put around him he will thrive. Orton is a very smart QB who manages the game well.

Orton > Cassel -accuracy
Orton > Cassel -deep ball
Orton > Cassel -reading D's
Orton > Cassel -game manager
Orton > Cassel -does not get rattled easily-good short term memory when it comes to adversity
Orton > Cassel - gets rid of ball if nothing there.

Orton < Cassel - moblility- but so what if you have "The Triple B Threat" to throw to because someone will be open and Orton will find them and be able to get the ball to one of them:thumb:

BoneKrusher
11-24-2011, 08:11 AM
Let's just say this, the competition for next yr just got a whole lot tougher for Cassel in which he has never been threatened by anyone since he has been here.

Orton is a system QB and when given the time and talent put around him he will thrive. Orton is a very smart QB who manages the game well.

Orton > Cassel -accuracy
Orton > Cassel -deep ball
Orton > Cassel -reading D's
Orton > Cassel -game manager
Orton > Cassel -does not get rattled easily-good short term memory when it comes to adversity
Orton > Cassel - gets rid of ball if nothing there.

Orton < Cassel - moblility- but so what if you have "The Triple B Threat" to throw to because someone will be open and Orton will find them and be able to get the ball to one of them:thumb:

i agree on all points.

threebag02
11-24-2011, 08:12 AM
Let's just say this, the competition for next yr just got a whole lot tougher for Cassel in which he has never been threatened by anyone since he has been here.

Orton is a system QB and when given the time and talent put around him he will thrive. Orton is a very smart QB who manages the game well.

Orton > Cassel -accuracy
Orton > Cassel -deep ball
Orton > Cassel -reading D's
Orton > Cassel -game manager
Orton > Cassel -does not get rattled easily-good short term memory when it comes to adversity
Orton > Cassel - gets rid of ball if nothing there.

Orton < Cassel - moblility- but so what if you have "The Triple B Threat" to throw to because someone will be open and Orton will find them and be able to get the ball to one of them:thumb:

Uh Like Ya and Stuff

Marcellus
11-24-2011, 08:15 AM
Let's just say this, the competition for next yr just got a whole lot tougher for Cassel in which he has never been threatened by anyone since he has been here.

Orton is a system QB and when given the time and talent put around him he will thrive. Orton is a very smart QB who manages the game well.

Orton > Cassel -accuracy
Orton > Cassel -deep ball
Orton > Cassel -reading D's
Orton > Cassel -game manager
Orton > Cassel -does not get rattled easily-good short term memory when it comes to adversity
Orton > Cassel - gets rid of ball if nothing there.

Orton < Cassel - moblility- but so what if you have "The Triple B Threat" to throw to because someone will be open and Orton will find them and be able to get the ball to one of them:thumb:

You do understand we would have to sign Orton to a contract for that to occur right?

What does anybody think we are interested in Orton after the next 6 games?

I hope we dump him and Cassel and Palko.

Chiefshrink
11-24-2011, 08:16 AM
Living out here in Denver, I have seen all of Orton's games and I can see why McDaniels liked this guy but he just never had any talent around him other than B Lloyd which we saw what they did to us last yr.

Orton's intelligence, deep ball arm, accuracy and low key demeanor will be a deep breath of fresh air for this team and we the fans. I've always been an Orton fan and really like his play:thumb:

Excellent acquisition:thumb:

L.A. Chieffan
11-24-2011, 08:18 AM
i agree excellent pick up for the chiefs, no we have TWO pro bowl caliber qbs on the roster. the rest of the afc west better watch out!

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 08:19 AM
Go back to 2009, second half of the season, after Haley put in Charles, and you will see Cassel having some success. Sure, he threw some INTs, but he was completing passes and we had some semblance of an air attack. It's not Weis, it's Charles.

Basically, the Chiefs offense is broken. Now, we can point to Cassel or Haley....or both.

Cassel isn't my favorite guy. I think he is a bit of a douche and he lacks confidence. The "I graded out well" is just a defense mechanism to cover up his lack of confidence.

But, seeing the McCluster up the middle play over and over doesn't help my confidence in Haley.

Everyone wants to look at MNF as some indication that Cassel was the biggest problem.

I look at the play where I believe it is 3-1, the Chiefs have been getting the play in and getting to the LOS and had a great tempo. It was on the second drive, I believe.

What happens? They take forever getting the call in, and it is Battle up the middle.

#1) They had success because of the tempo and they took their sweet time on a 3rd and 1. Heck, get the play in, get to the LOS and snap the ball.

#2) They run a predictable play. Palko is a mobile guy. Why not have him bootleg out and give him a pass/run option?

Or, just get on the ball and do a QB sneak?

I guess you can say that Haley wasn't given a great QB. I agree. But, you know what? Cassel hasn't been given a good OC in two of the years here.

Chiefshrink
11-24-2011, 08:21 AM
You do understand we would have to sign Orton to a contract for that to occur right?

What does anybody think we are interested in Orton after the next 6 games?

I hope we dump him and Cassel and Palko.

And if we win the division with Orton? What say you, now?

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 08:22 AM
Let's just say this, the competition for next yr just got a whole lot tougher for Cassel in which he has never been threatened by anyone since he has been here.

Orton is a system QB and when given the time and talent put around him he will thrive. Orton is a very smart QB who manages the game well.

Orton > Cassel -accuracy
Orton > Cassel -deep ball
Orton > Cassel -reading D's
Orton > Cassel -game manager
Orton > Cassel -does not get rattled easily-good short term memory when it comes to adversity
Orton > Cassel - gets rid of ball if nothing there.

Orton < Cassel - moblility- but so what if you have "The Triple B Threat" to throw to because someone will be open and Orton will find them and be able to get the ball to one of them:thumb:

I really hope all of that is true.

Amazingly though, Cassels numbers are better for their career and other than two years in Denver, Orton looks far inferior.

McDaniels also made Cassel look pretty good.

Chiefshrink
11-24-2011, 08:24 AM
Cassels a winner guys and hes supremely tough. I wouldnt put it past him to be back for the playoffs.

Hey when Orton schools Cassel on how to read D's, hit the open receivers not only down field but thread the needle from time to time, and start winning again, Cassel won't even get close enough to sniff Orton's jock.

This is about winning and still having a chance to win the division:thumb:

Chiefshrink
11-24-2011, 08:28 AM
I really hope all of that is true.

Amazingly though, Cassels numbers are better for their career and other than two years in Denver, Orton looks far inferior.

McDaniels also made Cassel look pretty good.

Always trust your eyes and what you see. Like I said, I have seen all of Orton's games here in Denver and have seen Cassel's as well and it is not even close:thumb:

Stats can be deceiving at times and in this situation they are very deceiving:thumb:

3rd&48ers
11-24-2011, 08:41 AM
And if we win the division with Orton? What say you, now?

Woah Woah Woah slow your roll sparky

Sent from my Desire HD

PGM
11-24-2011, 08:46 AM
By all means, continue on with your tantrum, but they had 2 QBs with minimal NFL experience. What else should they do?

Herp Lose for draft position. Like any team would do that. I'm not going to blame them for trying to upgrade the position. Unlike the draftmasturbaters thier job is on the line if they don't win.

boogblaster
11-24-2011, 09:24 AM
hopefully its a bye bye matt tune ....

Marcellus
11-24-2011, 09:30 AM
And if we win the division with Orton? What say you, now?

LMAO, ok you got me. That aint happening.

Oh Snap
11-24-2011, 10:32 AM
Ultimately, if I was running this team I would do the following:

1. Start Stanzi vs Pittsburgh (Rough, but he has a future, there's no point in playing Palko)
2. Start Orton the rest of the season.
3. Release Matt Cassel in the off season.
4. Draft a QB in RD 1 (Robert Griffin, or Barkley)
5. Release Palko
6. Go into camp with Griffin, Orton, Stanzi
7. Camp battle between Griffin and Orton.
8. If Orton plays much better than Griffin then start him in the regular season and let Griffin soak up the playbook and speed of the NFL.
9. If Orton is terrible then start Griffin, and let Orton and Stanzi battle for #2.

Sounds too reasonable.

beach tribe
11-24-2011, 10:35 AM
God I hope so. I've been patient w/ Cassel but he's flat out not the answer. However I'm also kind of bummed that we won't get to see Stanzi get a shot on the field. I hate the fact that KC will never develop their own QB, but they'll take anyones scraps.

Not putting Stanzi on the field IS developing him.

He's NOT ready.