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RustShack
11-23-2011, 08:58 PM
Orton in his two years in our offense-

62.1% 3,802 yards 21 TD 12 INT 86.8 Rating 7.0 YPA
58.8% 3,653 yards 20 TD 9 INT 87.5 Rating 7.3 YPA

Cassel those same last two years in the same system with better cast-

55.0% 2,924 yards 16 TD 16 INT 69.9 Rating 5.93 YPA
58.2% 3,116 yards 27 TD 7 INT 93.0 Rating 6.92 YPA

notorious
11-23-2011, 09:01 PM
Orton threw the ball downfield a lot at Denver.


If we continue to throw a lot of 3-5 outs and swing passes, Haley and Muir need to get the FUCK out of KC.

RustShack
11-23-2011, 09:03 PM
Orton threw the ball downfield a lot at Denver.


If we continue to throw a lot of 3-5 outs and swing passes, Haley and Muir need to get the FUCK out of KC.

I bet Haley is loving the idea of finally having a QB that can throw deep to his boys Bowe, Baldwin, and Breaston.

Simply Red
11-23-2011, 09:03 PM
Orton threw the ball downfield a lot at Denver.


If we continue to throw a lot of 3-5 outs and swing passes, Haley and Muir need to get the **** out of KC.

Fuck yes they do.

FAX
11-23-2011, 09:04 PM
Orton threw the ball downfield a lot at Denver.


If we continue to throw a lot of 3-5 outs and swing passes, Haley and Muir need to get the **** out of KC.

Assuming that Orton gets any playing time and can grok the playbook and we stay with the dinky dunky, I totally agree.

If we have a quarterback who can fling it, I think we'll fling it. Lord knows we have the receivers for it.

FAX

RustShack
11-23-2011, 09:29 PM
I wonder exactly how similar McDouches offense is to ours.. They have the same original base, but obviously coaches add their own tweaks to it. If theres a lot of the same terminology, he could step in pretty soon and start.

bricks
11-23-2011, 09:35 PM
Orton threw the ball downfield a lot at Denver.


If we continue to throw a lot of 3-5 outs and swing passes, Haley and Muir need to get the **** out of KC.

Oh I still think they are going to go with a short passing game.

Imo, it all comes down to the Offensive line.

I've seen this time after time this season where the QB drops back deep in the pocket and doesn't even have time to survey the field. Or sometimes even set his feet.

Even though Im not a fan of the short passing game, I will admit, I don't think the Chiefs have the Offensive line to have downfield passing game. It's impossible to have a downfield passing game when your line can't hold up and block for sh*t.

In that sense, I can kinda understand the short passing game at times. And I can kinda understand why they shy away from the downfield passing game. This is no intent to stick up for Haley and Muir. Im just pinpointing that they shouldn't be the only ones to blame. The Oline sucks bro.

notorious
11-23-2011, 09:38 PM
Oh I still think they are going to go with a short passing game.

Imo, it all comes down to the Offensive line.

I've seen this time after time this season where the QB drops back deep in the pocket and doesn't even have time to survey the field. Or sometimes even set his feet.

Even though Im not a fan of the short passing game, I will admit, I don't think the Chiefs have the Offensive line to have downfield passing game. It's impossible to have a downfield passing game when your line can't hold up and block for sh*t.

In that sense, I can kinda understand the short passing game at times. And I can kinda understand why they shy away from the downfield passing game. This is no intent to stick up for Haley and Muir. Im just pinpointing that they shouldn't be the only ones to blame. The Oline sucks bro.



If we are a legitimate threat to beat the defense deep, the offensive line will magically improve. No more stacking the box or bringing blitzes.

I don't think Orton can do it, but he has a lot more capability than Cassel.

Epic Fail 007
11-23-2011, 09:44 PM
I bet Haley is loving the idea of finally having a QB that can throw deep to his boys Bowe, Baldwin, and Breaston.

yes he dose,bet he feels like a kid on christmas morning!

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 09:46 PM
If we are a legitimate threat to beat the defense deep, the offensive line will magically improve. No more stacking the box or bringing blitzes.

I don't think Orton can do it, but he has a lot more capability than Cassel.

Exactly.

Cassel had a ton of open deep passes. He just threw the ball 15 yards away from the receiver.

And Palko had a lot of time to throw the ball. This offensive line isn't bad. Again, they look horrendous because Cassel never, ever, ever adjusts his blockers to stop the blitz. Palko did and it made a huge difference.

Shogun
11-23-2011, 09:51 PM
Ive definitely seen Orton throw to an open man that wasnt his #1 reciever 15 yards down the field.

Cassel, not so much

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 10:07 PM
Same offense? Better surrounding cast?

#1) Not the same offense. Comparable his numbers in 2008 in New England when he actually had the same offense.

#2) In 2009, the Chiefs had far inferior talent. JC wasn't starting most of the year, they had LJ. The offensive line sucked. And, the Broncos had Marshall and Royal at WR. Not even close. Oh, and Haley was offensive coordinator.

McDaniels made Cassel and Orton both look good. But, McDaniels isn't coming with Orton, so we get the Orton of the other three years... the one that has a passer rating around 76.

Count Alex's Losses
11-23-2011, 10:08 PM
Ive definitely seen Orton throw to an open man that wasnt his #1 reciever 15 yards down the field.

Cassel, not so much

DOESN'T MATTER!!!

HARRY POTTER DESTROYED ALL OF JOSH MCDANIELS HORCRUXES!

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 10:08 PM
Man, with as great as Orton is, and as good of talent as you all think we have.... the Chiefs are going to the Super Bowl.... we just need to get in the playoffs somehow.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 10:09 PM
Exactly.

Cassel had a ton of open deep passes. He just threw the ball 15 yards away from the receiver.

And Palko had a lot of time to throw the ball. This offensive line isn't bad. Again, they look horrendous because Cassel never, ever, ever adjusts his blockers to stop the blitz. Palko did and it made a huge difference.

Pats...32nd defense... and many injuries in secondary. Amazing that the offense looked better against them.

Shogun
11-23-2011, 10:11 PM
DOESN'T MATTER!!!

HARRY POTTER DESTROYED ALL OF JOSH MCDANIELS HORCRUXES!

Yeah but he could have ended it sooner if he killed Mcdaniels snake in Harry Potter and the chamber of dumbasses. Missed Horcrux's FTL!

Chiefs Pantalones
11-23-2011, 10:12 PM
I don't care what the stats say, Orton is better than Cassel just from the eye test.

RustShack
11-23-2011, 10:13 PM
Same offense? Better surrounding cast?

#1) Not the same offense. Comparable his numbers in 2008 in New England when he actually had the same offense.

#2) In 2009, the Chiefs had far inferior talent. JC wasn't starting most of the year, they had LJ. The offensive line sucked. And, the Broncos had Marshall and Royal at WR. Not even close. Oh, and Haley was offensive coordinator.

McDaniels made Cassel and Orton both look good. But, McDaniels isn't coming with Orton, so we get the Orton of the other three years... the one that has a passer rating around 76.

McDaniels, Haley, Weis, Muir... all run the Earnhardt-Perkins system. Each add their own twists, but its the same offense. The difference is how they run it, plays called, and aggressiveness.

Or is there something I'm missing, did we throw out the offense this year and I missed it? Or did McDaniels throw it out after leaving NE?

Bane
11-23-2011, 10:16 PM
**** Matt Casshole an anyone that supports him.The day he signed with KC they threw 3+ goddamn years down the drain.I don't like Orton much better but anyone with basic common sense can see Orton is better at QB than Casshole.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 10:25 PM
McDaniels, Haley, Weis, Muir... all run the Earnhardt-Perkins system. Each add their own twists, but its the same offense. The difference is how they run it, plays called, and aggressiveness.

Or is there something I'm missing, did we throw out the offense this year and I missed it? Or did McDaniels throw it out after leaving NE?

Bill Walsh and Paul Hackett also ran the same system.

See the dilema?

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 10:27 PM
**** Matt Casshole an anyone that supports him.The day he signed with KC they threw 3+ goddamn years down the drain.I don't like Orton much better but anyone with basic common sense can see Orton is better at QB than Casshole.

I understand your point about Cassel.

However, Orton was 1-4 this season. Tebow is 4-1 with the same team. Actually, they traded away their best WR before Tebow took over.

You really think Orton is better than Cassel?

Shogun
11-23-2011, 10:35 PM
I understand your point about Cassel.

However, Orton was 1-4 this season. Tebow is 4-1 with the same team. Actually, they traded away their best WR before Tebow took over.

You really think Orton is better than Cassel?

They TOTALLY changed what they were doing. Thats a bad comparison

FAX
11-23-2011, 10:40 PM
If we are a legitimate threat to beat the defense deep, the offensive line will magically improve. No more stacking the box or bringing blitzes.

I don't think Orton can do it, but he has a lot more capability than Cassel.

This is so true. Hell, it opens everything up. And, we didn't even threaten consistent completions in the 10 to 20 yard range, really.

One of the many 500 pound gorillas in the room is the fact that Miami showed the entire league how to beat a Cassel-led Chiefs offense to a pulp. Enemy defenses used to crowd the LOS, but from this point forward, it was going to be blitz early and often because we offer no deep threat whatsoever and our quarterback panics at the snap.

And, on top of observing our run game continue to suffer (including our fabulous draws to The Mighty McDervish), seeing our short passing game remain a toothless hag, and helplessly watching as we complete screens to enemy players, we were going to let this receiving corp go completely to waste because we cannot hit them in stride or elsewise.

But no more!!! We are free!!! Ring the bell! Hoist the colors! Raise the glass! Flag the limo!! And pinch the waitress on the tittahs!! For we have found a way to fling it deep!!!

FAX

jlscorpio
11-23-2011, 10:44 PM
didn't neckbeard throw for like 4K 2 years ago?

jaa1025
11-23-2011, 11:00 PM
I understand your point about Cassel.

However, Orton was 1-4 this season. Tebow is 4-1 with the same team. Actually, they traded away their best WR before Tebow took over.

You really think Orton is better than Cassel?

Denver's resurgence in defense coupled with the quality of opponent is the reason Denver is 4-1 with Tebow. He's done nothing but show he's a garbage QB. Cassel, with that defense and oline would have went 4-1 as well.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-23-2011, 11:01 PM
Denver's resurgence in defense coupled with the quality of opponent is the reason Denver is 4-1 with Tebow. He's done nothing but show he's a garbage QB. Cassel, with that defense and oline would have went 4-1 as well.

That is kindof my point.

BigMeatballDave
11-23-2011, 11:19 PM
'Sensible' should be removed from someone's username... :)

Psyko Tek
11-24-2011, 12:00 AM
I understand your point about Cassel.

However, Orton was 1-4 this season. Tebow is 4-1 with the same team. Actually, they traded away their best WR before Tebow took over.

You really think Orton is better than Cassel?

no I don't think he is anyworse

would love to let the rookie play
but it ain't happening

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2011, 12:01 AM
no I don't think he is anyworse

would love to let the rookie play
but it ain't happening

Orton IS better than Cassel. Palko isn't any worse.

MagicHef
11-24-2011, 12:37 AM
Denver's resurgence in defense coupled with the quality of opponent is the reason Denver is 4-1 with Tebow. He's done nothing but show he's a garbage QB. Cassel, with that defense and oline would have went 4-1 as well.

It's hilarious how many people think that switching from a QB that leads the league in turnovers to one that has had 2 in 5 games has nothing to do with the defense suddenly playing better. Also, a better running game (which Tebow has nothing to do with) certainly doesn't help the defense either.

chiefzilla1501
11-24-2011, 12:40 AM
It's hilarious how many people think that switching from a QB that leads the league in turnovers to one that has had 2 in 5 games has nothing to do with the defense suddenly playing better. Also, a better running game (which Tebow has nothing to do with) certainly doesn't help the defense either.

Or that a new coach might take more than a few games to adjust to. Both on offense and defense. Especially given a shortened preseason.

listopencil
11-24-2011, 12:41 AM
I wonder exactly how similar McDouches offense is to ours.. They have the same original base, but obviously coaches add their own tweaks to it. If theres a lot of the same terminology, he could step in pretty soon and start.

E-P is very dynamic. You can really do anything with it, adjust it to where your strengths are. I'd say there is a very good possibility that Orton just needs to develop timing with his receivers and he'll be fine.

listopencil
11-24-2011, 12:49 AM
I understand your point about Cassel.

However, Orton was 1-4 this season. Tebow is 4-1 with the same team. Actually, they traded away their best WR before Tebow took over.

You really think Orton is better than Cassel?

1) We have a young O-Line. They have been playing better and better as the season wears on. Orton doesn't move well, was getting pressured a lot.

2) Our entire D has been getting better and better as well. The D that Tebow has had the last few weeks is better than the one Orton started the year with.

3) Orton wasn't playing as well this year as he was in the past. He was giving up turnovers and making mental errors. I've heard some people say that he was feeling the heat of having Tebow behind him. I don't know. I doubt it. Tebow had a shitty camp and no off season.


So...it's complicated. That 4-1 team is different than the 1-4 one, and it's not just the QB.

chiefzilla1501
11-24-2011, 01:08 AM
1) We have a young O-Line. They have been playing better and better as the season wears on. Orton doesn't move well, was getting pressured a lot.

2) Our entire D has been getting better and better as well. The D that Tebow has had the last few weeks is better than the one Orton started the year with.

3) Orton wasn't playing as well this year as he was in the past. He was giving up turnovers and making mental errors. I've heard some people say that he was feeling the heat of having Tebow behind him. I don't know. I doubt it. Tebow had a shitty camp and no off season.


So...it's complicated. That 4-1 team is different than the 1-4 one, and it's not just the QB.

I think adjusting to a new coaching scheme is also always difficult. Especially in a shortened preseason when players can't even see the playbooks or take reps with teammates.

thurman merman
11-24-2011, 01:09 AM
1) We have a young O-Line. They have been playing better and better as the season wears on. Orton doesn't move well, was getting pressured a lot.

2) Our entire D has been getting better and better as well. The D that Tebow has had the last few weeks is better than the one Orton started the year with.

3) Orton wasn't playing as well this year as he was in the past. He was giving up turnovers and making mental errors. I've heard some people say that he was feeling the heat of having Tebow behind him. I don't know. I doubt it. Tebow had a shitty camp and no off season.


So...it's complicated. That 4-1 team is different than the 1-4 one, and it's not just the QB.

Just like everybody else, you're failing to recognize the opponents that the Broncos played during Orton's stint and Tebow's stint. The Broncos lost when Orton was playing because they played the Raiders (when they actually had a QB who was not on his couch all year), Titans, Packers, and Chargers (combined 25-15 record). The Broncos have won with Tebow because they've played the Dolphins, Raiders (when they had a QB who was on his couch all year), Chiefs, and Jets (combined 18-21 record). The only time the Broncos played a good team since Tebow has started they lost 45-10. Their defense still sucks. Their QB still sucks. They've just been playing teams with terrible QBs, so they've snuck a few wins in there.

listopencil
11-24-2011, 02:34 AM
Just like everybody else, you're failing to recognize the opponents that the Broncos played during Orton's stint and Tebow's stint. The Broncos lost when Orton was playing because they played the Raiders (when they actually had a QB who was not on his couch all year)

Yeah, uh...no. You're full of shit. We lost by three because Orton literally dropped the ball when McGahee was wide open for a TD. The team played (barely) well enough to win. I actually watched that game. It was ugly as hell.

Titans, Packers, and Chargers (combined 25-15 record)More bullshit on your part. You are grouping the Packers with the Titans and the Chargers? Ridiculous. The Packers kicked our asses because they are a much better team than we are. Titans was closer because we were closer to their talent level. Chargers played soft D and were ill prepared for Tebow, we still lost.



The Broncos have won with Tebow because they've played the Dolphins, Raiders (when they had a QB who was on his couch all year), Chiefs, and Jets (combined 18-21 record). The only time the Broncos played a good team since Tebow has started they lost 45-10. Their defense still sucks. Their QB still sucks. They've just been playing teams with terrible QBs, so they've snuck a few wins in there.LMAO You have no clue. I swear, it's like you don't even watch football. Go knit us a scarf and find a thread where you won't look like a ****ing moron.

ChiefsCountry
11-24-2011, 02:51 AM
'Sensible' should be removed from someone's username... :)

Him and Pioli are the only dipshits who think Cassel is a better QB than Orton.

SPATCH
11-24-2011, 03:01 AM
Fuck this man. Fuck everything. I hate this god damn team. It's killing me. We'll NEVER have a franchise QB. Never. This is some shit. Some bull shit

S&BJW
11-24-2011, 03:40 AM
Orton rocks.....................as long as he has 20 minutes to decide where he throws the ball.........good pick up though as the Raiders have beaten him 4 times in a row I think....

Tuckdaddy
11-24-2011, 04:12 AM
Orton is way way way better than Matt. He's an improvement in every way. I still want a first round QB to be the man but Orton will be alot better to watch than Cassel.

RustShack
11-24-2011, 06:47 AM
Could be possible that Orton just didn't fit the offense John Fox implemented as well as he does the one we run... sometimes it takes more than a few weeks for a QB to learn an offense.

Mile High Mania
11-24-2011, 06:57 AM
Could be possible that Orton just didn't fit the offense John Fox implemented as well as he does the one we run... sometimes it takes more than a few weeks for a QB to learn an offense.

Neither Orton nor Tebow were selected by the new regime in Denver... Orton wasn't signed on beyond this season. Orton wasn't going to be in the future plans.

I think Orton can be really good on the right team...

FAX
11-24-2011, 07:07 AM
Neither Orton nor Tebow were selected by the new regime in Denver... Orton wasn't signed on beyond this season. Orton wasn't going to be in the future plans.

I think Orton can be really good on the right team...

Now I'm concerned.

FAX

Von Dumbass
11-24-2011, 07:08 AM
You can't throw deep if you can't protect long enough. Orton is a dink and dunker, and all of his deep passes come off of playaction.

FAX
11-24-2011, 07:17 AM
Orton is way way way better than Matt. He's an improvement in every way. I still want a first round QB to be the man but Orton will be alot better to watch than Cassel.

Yep.

And, I can certainly understand why so many people are worried that we're going to repeat the whole "retread quarterback" concept once more. It's been the Chiefs' approach for decades ... many of which I, myself, have suffered through, as well.

However, there is no rule anywhere that says we have to repeat that failed approach, nor is there any rule that says we are going to repeat it, nor is there any rule that says we must jam raw carrots up our hienies.

We have the core of a good team. A team that can win playoff games. And, a team that can dominate the AFC for years. We merely need to add a few pieces ... including a quarterback brimming with verve.

I refuse to hang my head and bitch and moan. Rather, I choose to bitch and moan and then hang my entire self, head and all. But, I don't think it's going to come to that. I think that we'll see continued improvement this year, draft another QB in April, then be super intelligent during the next off-season and training camp by allowing true competition for the starting quarterback role and I don't think the winner will be Orton. And, it won't be Cassel either because he'll either be working as head NFL doofus or heading back to Southern California just in time for the big one.

FAX

BoneKrusher
11-24-2011, 07:28 AM
Cassel has had countless games where he had almost as many INTs as passing yards.

go with your common sense and it's easy to see, Orton is an upgrade over Cassel.

Stanzi we just dont know yet, maybe he could be our future because i dont see Pioli drafting a QB in round one based on his past as a GM.

FAX
11-24-2011, 07:32 AM
Cassel has had countless games where he had almost as many INTs as passing yards.

go with your common sense and it's easy to see, Orton is an upgrade over Cassel.

Stanzi we just dont know yet, maybe he could be our future because i dont see Pioli drafting a QB in round one based on his past as a GM.

Pioli has seen the error of his ways, Mr. BoneKrusher.

Plus, he needs to carve his own way through the NFL jungle without relying on Wild Bill's safari guide. He'll draft his ass off this year. We'll be picking quarterbacks like they were blueberries growing down by the river where he had the last body dumped.

FAX

burt
11-24-2011, 07:34 AM
As much as I dislike Cassel, our PROFESSIONAL coaches strongly believed him to be the best, out of our squad. He had lots of experience, and was/is better than Palko, and Stanzi(a developement QB, with a bright future). But Cassel is out for the season. Then a better QB than Cassel be came available.

SO WE TOOK HIM! ANY decent coach would have done the same thing. I am glad out front office and coaching staff recognized the opportunity and siezed it. We are better for it.

InChiefsHell
11-24-2011, 07:51 AM
Ah fuckit. Bring on Neckbeard. At this point, I honestly don't really care. Cassel showed beyond the shadow of a doubt that he's quality backup, preferably one you never really have to play. Palko is not even a stop gap. He's not even as much fun as Thiggy was. Stanzi went in the 5th for a reason, he's not ready yet and to toss him out there and break him before you even know what you have is not smart.

Orton makes sense, I guess. I never thought he was horrible, but I never really though much of him either. The FACT that he's an upgrade over Cassel speaks volumes. I hope he does good I guess. But the bourbon'll be flowin' all season regardless...so...Go Chiefs.

mdchiefsfan
11-24-2011, 08:34 AM
Ah ****it. Bring on Neckbeard. At this point, I honestly don't really care. Cassel showed beyond the shadow of a doubt that he's quality backup, preferably one you never really have to play. Palko is not even a stop gap. He's not even as much fun as Thiggy was. Stanzi went in the 5th for a reason, he's not ready yet and to toss him out there and break him before you even know what you have is not smart.

Orton makes sense, I guess. I never thought he was horrible, but I never really though much of him either. The FACT that he's an upgrade over Cassel speaks volumes. I hope he does good I guess. But the bourbon'll be flowin' all season regardless...so...Go Chiefs.

:toast:

same here

JD10367
11-24-2011, 08:39 AM
I don't care what the stats say, Orton is better than Cassel just from the eye test.

It's a good thing you don't care what the stats say, then. Since when you compare career averages Cassel actually has minutely better stats than Orton in TD/INT ratio, QB rating, completion %, and even YPC (despite everyone saying how great Orton is at throwing downfield).

I find it hilarious how so many people hated Orton when he was in Chicago and made fun of him, made fun of him getting traded to Denver, made fun of him getting cut by Denver in favor of Tim Tebow, but now that KC picked him up suddenly he's a great option.

Cassel wasn't the answer. Everyone wanted Cassel gone. And instead of seeing what Palko and Stanzi have, they spent $2.5M on someone who's possibly worse than Cassel.

And Orton will probably play well, for a game or two. He'll trick you into thinking it was the right move. But eventually KC will find out what Chicago and Denver did: he's just as average as the multitude of average QBs who aren't good enough to lead a team, and take it to the Super Bowl. And when they finally do find that out, he will have won a few games--just enough to push them down the draft chart until they can't get a good QB in Round One.

They took the option you all complain about: take someone else's trash and try to polish it up. You can't polish a turd (unless you're a Mythbuster).

burt
11-24-2011, 08:42 AM
You can't polish a turd (unless you're a Mythbuster).

I hope the Chiefs coaching staff are Mythbusters!

Besides, Orton is minutely less than Cassel with a significantly lesser receiver corps. He will do fine.

rockymtnchief
11-24-2011, 09:07 AM
You can't throw deep if you can't protect long enough. Orton is a dink and dunker, and all of his deep passes come off of playaction.

Two years ago, you were hailing him as the greatest QB since Dan Pastorini.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 09:33 AM
Two years ago, you were hailing him as the greatest QB since Dan Pastorini.

Yeah, and everyone over here talked about how Cassel was better.

Amazing how him getting picked up by the Chiefs suddenly turns the tables.

BoneKrusher
11-24-2011, 09:35 AM
Yeah, and everyone over here talked about how Cassel was better.


not me, i never liked Cassel from Day one.

rocknrolla
11-24-2011, 09:36 AM
Pioli has seen the error of his ways, Mr. BoneKrusher.

Plus, he needs to carve his own way through the NFL jungle without relying on Wild Bill's safari guide. He'll draft his ass off this year. We'll be picking quarterbacks like they were blueberries growing down by the river where he had the last body dumped.

FAX

God! I hope that's what he is going to do.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 09:42 AM
Yep.

And, I can certainly understand why so many people are worried that we're going to repeat the whole "retread quarterback" concept once more. It's been the Chiefs' approach for decades ... many of which I, myself, have suffered through, as well.

However, there is no rule anywhere that says we have to repeat that failed approach, nor is there any rule that says we are going to repeat it, nor is there any rule that says we must jam raw carrots up our hienies.

We have the core of a good team. A team that can win playoff games. And, a team that can dominate the AFC for years. We merely need to add a few pieces ... including a quarterback brimming with verve.

I refuse to hang my head and bitch and moan. Rather, I choose to bitch and moan and then hang my entire self, head and all. But, I don't think it's going to come to that. I think that we'll see continued improvement this year, draft another QB in April, then be super intelligent during the next off-season and training camp by allowing true competition for the starting quarterback role and I don't think the winner will be Orton. And, it won't be Cassel either because he'll either be working as head NFL doofus or heading back to Southern California just in time for the big one.

FAX

With JC, Berry and Moeaki the Chiefs have enough talent to make it to the playoffs....barely.

This offensive and defensive line aren't good enough to dominate anything.

Add a few pieces? The same can be said of any team. You add the right impact player and suddenly it makes a huge difference.

But this team doesn't have an impact player in the front three of the defensive line.

They don't have a single great player along the offensive line.

They have a single great player on offense, and that is Bowe. JC would give them a second.

They have a great interior LB and a good, borderline great OLB.

Flowers is a very good corner. Carr is average to good. Berry looked promising, but still wasn't 'great' yet. And, Kendrick Lewis looks solid.

The Chiefs have a bunch of quality NFL starters, but very few great players.

This team is still building and certainly going in the right direction.... but lets be a little realistic.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 09:45 AM
not me, i never liked Cassel from Day one.

Even those who didn't like Cassel knew he was better than Orton.

I am all for upgrading the QB position... and there are things I like better about Orton.

The first is that it appears that he is willing to take more shots downfield. I think that is because of McDaniels coaching. I think Haley will coach the 'be safe' with the ball philosophy and we will see him go downfield less.

We shall see.

burt
11-24-2011, 09:46 AM
With JC, Berry and Moeaki the Chiefs have enough talent to make it to the playoffs....barely.


way wrong.

Bacillus Anthracis
11-24-2011, 09:53 AM
I understand your point about Cassel.

However, Orton was 1-4 this season. Tebow is 4-1 with the same team. Actually, they traded away their best WR before Tebow took over.

You really think Orton is better than Cassel?

Denver's defense wasn't playing at the same level before Tebow Bieber took over. Neither was their 0-line.

But Orton isn't better than Cassel. At best he's the same. All the Chiefs would be doing is exchanging being pissed off at one quarterback for another.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 09:54 AM
way wrong.

Yeah, because they proved they belonged in the playoffs last year.

The only reason they would be in the playoffs is due to the division if they made it this year.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 09:55 AM
Denver's defense wasn't playing at the same level before Tebow Bieber took over. Neither was their 0-line.

But Orton isn't better than Cassel. At best he's the same. All the Chiefs would be doing is exchanging being pissed off at one quarterback for another.

I really hope that I am wrong and that Orton is an upgrade. That would mean the coaches and the surrounding talent are better than I think.

BoneKrusher
11-24-2011, 10:00 AM
Even those who didn't like Cassel knew he was better than Orton.



speaking for myself:
Cassel will NEVER be better than Orton.

unless you like 3-5 yard passes and lots of INTs.

chiefzilla1501
11-24-2011, 10:02 AM
With JC, Berry and Moeaki the Chiefs have enough talent to make it to the playoffs....barely.

This offensive and defensive line aren't good enough to dominate anything.

Add a few pieces? The same can be said of any team. You add the right impact player and suddenly it makes a huge difference.

But this team doesn't have an impact player in the front three of the defensive line.

They don't have a single great player along the offensive line.

They have a single great player on offense, and that is Bowe. JC would give them a second.

They have a great interior LB and a good, borderline great OLB.

Flowers is a very good corner. Carr is average to good. Berry looked promising, but still wasn't 'great' yet. And, Kendrick Lewis looks solid.

The Chiefs have a bunch of quality NFL starters, but very few great players.

This team is still building and certainly going in the right direction.... but lets be a little realistic.

The defense and running game plus our cooshy schedule made it perfectly acceptable for our QB to throw for 150-175 yards and 0-1 TDs and still win. The majority of those yards were on dumpoff passes.

Name me a few games last season when you remember Cassel leading a major 4th quarter charge to win the game?

If he didn't produce yards and he didn't lead a 4th quarter charge, then what did he do? And how did he perform against legit defenses?

Again, the team won IN SPITE of him. Not because of him.

BoneKrusher
11-24-2011, 10:05 AM
Again, the team won IN SPITE of him. Not because of him.

A-Men Brother. :thumb:

chiefzilla1501
11-24-2011, 10:06 AM
It's a good thing you don't care what the stats say, then. Since when you compare career averages Cassel actually has minutely better stats than Orton in TD/INT ratio, QB rating, completion %, and even YPC (despite everyone saying how great Orton is at throwing downfield).

I find it hilarious how so many people hated Orton when he was in Chicago and made fun of him, made fun of him getting traded to Denver, made fun of him getting cut by Denver in favor of Tim Tebow, but now that KC picked him up suddenly he's a great option.

Cassel wasn't the answer. Everyone wanted Cassel gone. And instead of seeing what Palko and Stanzi have, they spent $2.5M on someone who's possibly worse than Cassel.

And Orton will probably play well, for a game or two. He'll trick you into thinking it was the right move. But eventually KC will find out what Chicago and Denver did: he's just as average as the multitude of average QBs who aren't good enough to lead a team, and take it to the Super Bowl. And when they finally do find that out, he will have won a few games--just enough to push them down the draft chart until they can't get a good QB in Round One.

They took the option you all complain about: take someone else's trash and try to polish it up. You can't polish a turd (unless you're a Mythbuster).

Career averages.

You can't lump Chicago into there. He's said specifically that in Chicago, they asked him to do 3-step, quick reads. They specifically asked him to be a game manager. Virtually his entire playbook did this. In Denver, they opened up the entire playbook. That had everything to do with coaching philosophy. Orton's Denver stats vs. Chicago don't even compare.

chiefzilla1501
11-24-2011, 10:11 AM
Pats...32nd defense... and many injuries in secondary. Amazing that the offense looked better against them.

Re-watch the game. Watch him physically move blockers and then, wa la, a blitzer moved right into the guy.

The reason Cassel struggled later this season is because teams realized he has no ability whatsoever to read the blitz. Do you know how many times I saw more blitzers than blockers? That's on the QB. Blame the offensive line all you want, but the QB's job is to adjust for the blitz and hit the hot route. If you don't do that, you're going to struggle as an NFL QB.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 10:12 AM
The defense and running game plus our cooshy schedule made it perfectly acceptable for our QB to throw for 150-175 yards and 0-1 TDs and still win. The majority of those yards were on dumpoff passes.

Name me a few games last season when you remember Cassel leading a major 4th quarter charge to win the game?

If he didn't produce yards and he didn't lead a 4th quarter charge, then what did he do? And how did he perform against legit defenses?

Again, the team won IN SPITE of him. Not because of him.

Never said that Cassel carried this team. But, Orton still isn't an upgrade.

I hope I am wrong.

kysirsoze
11-24-2011, 10:16 AM
Never said that Cassel carried this team. But, Orton still isn't an upgrade.

I hope I am wrong.

I hope you aren't. I don't want him ruining our draft pick with one or two meaningless victories. If he can take us to an AFCW title, I'll take it. Still, we all know we'll get knowcked out first round in the playoffs. If Orton means we fall out of the running for one of the top QB prospects, I am going to be pretty unhappy.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 10:17 AM
Career averages.

You can't lump Chicago into there. He's said specifically that in Chicago, they asked him to do 3-step, quick reads. They specifically asked him to be a game manager. Virtually his entire playbook did this. In Denver, they opened up the entire playbook. That had everything to do with coaching philosophy. Orton's Denver stats vs. Chicago don't even compare.

Yeah, and Matt Cassel under Weis or McDaniels doesn't compare with him under Haley or Muir (aka Mike Solari).

Amazing, isn't it?

I will be interested to see what Orton can do here. He has some things going for him here that Matt didn't.

#1) The Chiefs are losing. Haley is more aggressive when the Chiefs are losing. He will take more chances. It will give Orton more of a chance to throw the ball downfield.

#2) Baldwin should be rounding into form a little better as the season goes along.

The playbooks are similar, it comes down to how the game is called and what the coach wants. If he wants you to protect the ball at all costs, then that is what you do.

It will be interesting to see how Orton does over the last four games.

chiefzilla1501
11-24-2011, 10:19 AM
Never said that Cassel carried this team. But, Orton still isn't an upgrade.

I hope I am wrong.

I get what you are saying. I think McDaniels is probably a superior offensive mind to Haley. But not by as much as you'd like to claim. Maybe Orton was a product of the system. But I'm talking about Orton doing the things Cassel simply cannot. In NE, McDaniels designed an offense where Cassel got rid of the ball quickly and asked Randy Moss (possibly the most talented receiver of all time) to go up and get it. We learned why. In KC, he's incapable of reading the defense and field. And he's incapable of knowing how to make all the throws. He's a "throw it in the breadbasket" type guy.

Orton was asked to run a more traditional offense in Denver. He had receivers far inferior to Moss and Welker. He's not going to be asked nearly as much to carry the team as he was asked to in Denver. The system is going to suit him well. I think by the last 4 games, you'll see not how good Orton is, but how bad Cassel was. I feel like Haley's offense made it very easy for a legit QB to make plays, but you can't do anything when your QB is incapable of executing the basics.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 10:21 AM
I hope you aren't. I don't want him ruining our draft pick with one or two meaningless victories. If he can take us to an AFCW title, I'll take it. Still, we all know we'll get knowcked out first round in the playoffs. If Orton means we fall out of the running for one of the top QB prospects, I am going to be pretty unhappy.

#1) I don't assume the Chiefs were taking a QB anyway.

#2) If I am wrong, it means that the cast around Cassel is better and that Haley is a better coach than I think.

See, I just see a pretty good team led by an average coach.

If Cassel really is to blame for ALL their woes, then that will be great.

I still see a below average Offensive and defensive line. So, I don't really think that is the case.... but I sure hope it is.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 10:23 AM
I get what you are saying. I think McDaniels is probably a superior offensive mind to Haley. But not by as much as you'd like to claim. Maybe Orton was a product of the system. But I'm talking about Orton doing the things Cassel simply cannot. In NE, McDaniels designed an offense where Cassel got rid of the ball quickly and asked Randy Moss (possibly the most talented receiver of all time) to go up and get it. We learned why. In KC, he's incapable of reading the defense and field. And he's incapable of knowing how to make all the throws. He's a "throw it in the breadbasket" type guy.

Orton was asked to run a more traditional offense in Denver. He had receivers far inferior to Moss and Welker.

I really am anxious to see what Orton can do. I think it could tell us a lot about Cassel.

Either way, Cassel or Haley needs to be gone. Haley clearly doesn't work well with him. So, it will be interesting to see how he does with Orton.

I would be fine with both of them leaving, honestly.

chiefzilla1501
11-24-2011, 10:27 AM
I really am anxious to see what Orton can do. I think it could tell us a lot about Cassel.

Either way, Cassel or Haley needs to be gone. Haley clearly doesn't work well with him. So, it will be interesting to see how he does with Orton.

I would be fine with both of them leaving, honestly.

Cassel needs to be the first to go. I don't think it has anything to do with them not getting along. It has everything to do with Cassel not executing the basics. And when Weis and Zorn can't coach those into you, it's the QB, not the coach. Cassel handcuffed Haley a lot more than the other way around. They asked him to do basic stuff and he couldn't do it. It's only fair that Haley gets a chance to show what he can do with a QB who can actually execute his gameplan.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 10:42 AM
Cassel needs to be the first to go. I don't think it has anything to do with them not getting along. It has everything to do with Cassel not executing the basics. And when Weis and Zorn can't coach those into you, it's the QB, not the coach. Cassel handcuffed Haley a lot more than the other way around. They asked him to do basic stuff and he couldn't do it. It's only fair that Haley gets a chance to show what he can do with a QB who can actually execute his gameplan.

Please don't tell me that Weis couldn't coach him. He was a pro bowl alternate and offensive player of the month under him.

kysirsoze
11-24-2011, 10:46 AM
#1) I don't assume the Chiefs were taking a QB anyway.

#2) If I am wrong, it means that the cast around Cassel is better and that Haley is a better coach than I think.

See, I just see a pretty good team led by an average coach.

If Cassel really is to blame for ALL their woes, then that will be great.

I still see a below average Offensive and defensive line. So, I don't really think that is the case.... but I sure hope it is.

No one is saying that. He is just clearly not the answer. Orton almost definitely is not as well, but I think he's more likely to do well than Cassel. Either way he's a stopgap. If he turns into more or Cassel returns, we are in for years of more heartache and frustration.

chiefzilla1501
11-24-2011, 11:00 AM
Please don't tell me that Weis couldn't coach him. He was a pro bowl alternate and offensive player of the month under him.

JFC. Offensive player of the month in a month where he went 2-2, losing 2 division games, and one game throwing for 469 yards in a blowout loss against Denver. But congratulations on playing very well 2 games against the NFC West. And we should take a lot of stock in voters who didn't even think Tamba Hali deserved a pro bowl nod.

The Chiefs' defense rode around Charles and asking Cassel to do very little this year. They don't have Charles this year. We should expect more of our QB than to support a solid defense and a dominant running game. Don't feed us this ridiculous illusion that Cassel was a good QB this year. If Weis should be congratulated for anything, it's building an offense where they can build around an ineffective QB. He wouldn't do that without Jamaal Charles around.

Von Dumbass
11-24-2011, 11:31 AM
Two years ago, you were hailing him as the greatest QB since Dan Pastorini.

He looks fantastic in preseason. Draft time and preseason is when I am the most optimistic about the Broncos.

whoman69
11-24-2011, 04:58 PM
I consider Orton an upgrade over Cassel. Is it like trading Majikowski for Favre? No. Orton is not a franchise QB either. He is only marginally better. I don't understand bringing in a stop gap on a lost year. Hopefully Pioli is not thinking of him as anything more than that.

KC Tattoo
11-24-2011, 05:17 PM
I consider Orton an upgrade over Cassel. Is it like trading Majikowski for Favre? No. Orton is not a franchise QB either. He is only marginally better. I don't understand bringing in a stop gap on a lost year. Hopefully Pioli is not thinking of him as anything more than that.

I trust




NOT

R8RFAN
11-24-2011, 05:24 PM
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjBIaKNG01iRq2DqiZLw7mWftLnLBDBTZE0aALqp8rP2KaUxgdGrft3Owx

Red Beans
11-24-2011, 05:39 PM
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjBIaKNG01iRq2DqiZLw7mWftLnLBDBTZE0aALqp8rP2KaUxgdGrft3Owx

Providing us with some stock from your personal wank bank eh?

R8RFAN
11-24-2011, 05:45 PM
Providing us with some stock from your personal wank bank eh?

I bet you are rubbing one out right now LMAO

mdchiefsfan
11-25-2011, 12:12 AM
This is my opinion FWIW. We all yelled at Cassel for not being able to take advantage of the excellent WRs he has to utilize. We have bitched about his inability to find the open man, his inability to regress the blitz, his consistency of checking down, his happy feet, and his inaccurate passes.

What makes me happy is we can see the source of these complaints, with Orton as our QB. We had Palko in there, whom we could easily brush off as being inexperienced. But with Orton, if we see marked improvement, the blame is on Cassel. If not, the blame is on the OL or coaches. The addition of Orton provides more of a in depth view of what the problem is within the Chiefs organization. Let's see how it plays out.

BossChief
11-25-2011, 12:47 AM
KYLE ORTON OWNS CASSEL.....WATCH

Kyle Orton Throws the ball down the field more than Cassel, he also throws a lot more passes past 10 yards.

Orton threw 188
Cassel threw 157

Orton is a lot more productive and efficient than Cassel when he throws past 10 yards

Orton
21-30 yards ....87 rating
31-40 yards.....119 rating
41-50 yards ....132 rating

On all of those passes, he totaled 845 yards!!

Cassel

21-30 yards...93 rating
31-40 yards...40 rating
41-50 yards ...82 rating

On all of those passes, Cassel totaled an embarrassing 320 yards

Everything taken from ESPN splits.

Tribal Warfare
11-25-2011, 05:48 AM
This is my opinion FWIW. We all yelled at Cassel for not being able to take advantage of the excellent WRs he has to utilize. We have bitched about his inability to find the open man, his inability to regress the blitz, his consistency of checking down, his happy feet, and his inaccurate passes.

What makes me happy is we can see the source of these complaints, with Orton as our QB. We had Palko in there, whom we could easily brush off as being inexperienced. But with Orton, if we see marked improvement, the blame is on Cassel. If not, the blame is on the OL or coaches. The addition of Orton provides more of a in depth view of what the problem is within the Chiefs organization. Let's see how it plays out.

I concur because Pioli could've let it play out with Palko , and lose all the remaining games then Scott could point to how "valuable" Cassel is to the Chiefs. Then using that excuse he'd trade down as much as possible to find "The right 53" which excludes drafting a QB in the 2012 Draft.

htismaqe
11-25-2011, 09:06 AM
This is my opinion FWIW. We all yelled at Cassel for not being able to take advantage of the excellent WRs he has to utilize. We have bitched about his inability to find the open man, his inability to regress the blitz, his consistency of checking down, his happy feet, and his inaccurate passes.

What makes me happy is we can see the source of these complaints, with Orton as our QB. We had Palko in there, whom we could easily brush off as being inexperienced. But with Orton, if we see marked improvement, the blame is on Cassel. If not, the blame is on the OL or coaches. The addition of Orton provides more of a in depth view of what the problem is within the Chiefs organization. Let's see how it plays out.

Good post.

I concur because Pioli could've let it play out with Palko , and lose all the remaining games then Scott could point to how "valuable" Cassel is to the Chiefs. Then using that excuse he'd trade down as much as possible to find "The right 53" which excludes drafting a QB in the 2012 Draft.

Hadn't really thought about it that way before but seeing you type it absolutely makes me feel better.

They had a built-in excuse for bringing Cassel back so bringing in Orton really COULD mean the end...

PBJ

MahiMike
11-25-2011, 09:08 AM
You know the WRs are happy.

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 09:20 AM
I love how this has went from a Orton sucks balls thread to the greatest QB in the history of the NFL in a matter of 2 days

kysirsoze
11-25-2011, 10:11 AM
I love how this has went from a Orton sucks balls thread to the greatest QB in the history of the NFL in a matter of 2 days

I love how you've been out of touch with the tone and content of this thread from post #1.

Tim45ks
11-25-2011, 10:13 AM
Too me it will be nice to have a QB that when we go into play action pass, he can actually throw the long Ball an not a dump off pass to Mcluster an hope for yards!!!!

Extra Point
11-25-2011, 10:53 AM
Too me it will be nice to have a QB that when we go into play action pass, he can actually throw the long Ball an not a dump off pass to Mcluster an hope for yards!!!!

Hah! The McCluster dump pass is a designed play. The O-line is the key to getting the time to throw the long ball, along with the QB keeping in the pocket, or keeping the play alive.

htismaqe
11-25-2011, 11:14 AM
Hah! The McCluster dump pass is a designed play. The O-line is the key to getting the time to throw the long ball, along with the QB keeping in the pocket, or keeping the play alive.

Palko had 4 or 5 times on Sunday night where he had over 3 seconds, almost 4, to decide what to do.

Rausch
11-25-2011, 11:15 AM
Orton is dumber than a fucking muppet but can throw 20+ yards downfield.

Orton wins...

philfree
11-25-2011, 12:16 PM
Palko had 4 or 5 times on Sunday night where he had over 3 seconds, almost 4, to decide what to do.

We need a franchise QB but is over 3 seconds 4/5 times in 40 dropbacks any good? Doesn't sound to good to me.

Rausch
11-25-2011, 12:18 PM
We need a franchise QB but is over 3 seconds 4/5 times in 40 dropbacks any good? Doesn't sound to good to me.

He has an excuse with it being his first ever game starting...














:evil:

KC Tattoo
11-25-2011, 01:16 PM
This is my opinion FWIW. We all yelled at Cassel for not being able to take advantage of the excellent WRs he has to utilize. We have bitched about his inability to find the open man, his inability to regress the blitz, his consistency of checking down, his happy feet, and his inaccurate passes.

What makes me happy is we can see the source of these complaints, with Orton as our QB. We had Palko in there, whom we could easily brush off as being inexperienced. But with Orton, if we see marked improvement, the blame is on Cassel. If not, the blame is on the OL or coaches. The addition of Orton provides more of a in depth view of what the problem is within the Chiefs organization. Let's see how it plays out.

Which would just prove Chiefs have no Balls to play a rookie QB to build upon or have potential for long term success. Pass on a first round QB with even greater chance of future long term success.

Orton brings us no closer than Dave Krieg for a Super Bowl run.


Think I'm going to go to Wallmarts after all, go be apart of the insanity. Go hang out in the toy department, look for that last gift that some smuck is looking for & buy it. Then after Christmas return it for for that extra money that it cost to drive out there to get in the first place.

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 01:19 PM
I love how this has went from a Orton sucks balls thread to the greatest QB in the history of the NFL in a matter of 2 days

LOL wut

chiefzilla1501
11-25-2011, 01:23 PM
Palko had 4 or 5 times on Sunday night where he had over 3 seconds, almost 4, to decide what to do.

The biggest proof for me was watching him tap on blockers to move them into place. Most of the time, he was right. Something I rarely remember seeing Cassel do.

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 01:23 PM
It's an Orton Love Fest

chiefzilla1501
11-25-2011, 01:24 PM
Which would just prove Chiefs have no Balls to play a rookie QB to build upon or have potential for long term success. Pass on a first round QB with even greater chance of future long term success.

Orton brings us no closer than Dave Krieg for a Super Bowl run.


Think I'm going to go to Wallmarts after all, go be apart of the insanity. Go hang out in the toy department, look for that last gift that some smuck is looking for & buy it. Then after Christmas return it for for that extra money that it cost to drive out there to get in the first place.

Look, I'm with you if the Chiefs pass on a first round pick for Orton. I'm going to be absolutely livid. But Orton over Stanzi... I'd love to give Stanzi a chance, but I think it's reaching to say that this is a bad move. There's a lot of bad that can come if Stanzi struggles to close the season. Again, the biggest fear to me is that Bowe gets fed up and refuses to re-sign.

kysirsoze
11-25-2011, 01:27 PM
It's an Orton Love Fest


1. Log onto Chiefsplanet

2. Enter random thread and make unfounded and inflammatory posts

3. Claim that you're not a troll because of your join date

4. ???????

5. Profit

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 01:29 PM
1. Log onto Chiefsplanet

2. Enter random thread and make unfounded and inflammatory posts

3. Claim that you're not a troll because of your join date

4. ???????

5. Profit

Shut your whore mouth

mdchiefsfan
11-25-2011, 01:31 PM
Look, I'm with you if the Chiefs pass on a first round pick for Orton. I'm going to be absolutely livid. But Orton over Stanzi... I'd love to give Stanzi a chance, but I think it's reaching to say that this is a bad move. There's a lot of bad that can come if Stanzi struggles to close the season. Again, the biggest fear to me is that Bowe gets fed up and refuses to re-sign.

Pretty much my train of thought

Marcellus
11-25-2011, 01:31 PM
Look, I'm with you if the Chiefs pass on a first round pick for Orton. I'm going to be absolutely livid. But Orton over Stanzi... I'd love to give Stanzi a chance, but I think it's reaching to say that this is a bad move. There's a lot of bad that can come if Stanzi struggles to close the season. Again, the biggest fear to me is that Bowe gets fed up and refuses to re-sign.

I think this is one of the main reasons they picked up Orton so Bowe gets his 1,000 yards and doesnt jump ship immedietley.

BoneKrusher
11-25-2011, 01:31 PM
It's an Orton Love Fest

if you had just spent three years dealing with Cassel you would be excited as well.

kysirsoze
11-25-2011, 01:32 PM
if you had just spent three years dealing with Cassel you would be excited as well.

Yeah, he's been spoiled by the stellar QB play of the Raiders for FAR too long.

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 01:32 PM
if you had just spent three years dealing with Cassel you would be excited as well.

You don't know how excited I am, I was afraid the Chiefs would Draft one but now that you are set the next 3 years, I am happy once again.

Rausch
11-25-2011, 01:33 PM
1. Log onto Chiefsplanet

2. Enter random thread and make unfounded and inflammatory posts

3. Claim that you're not a troll because of your join date

4. ???????

5. Profit

I'm pretty sure I'm not banking from this.

And I've been here for a while...

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 01:33 PM
Yeah, he's been spoiled by the stellar QB play of the Raiders for FAR too long.

Standings Bitch!!!

Rausch
11-25-2011, 01:34 PM
Standings Bitch!!!

SCOREBOARD!

KC Tattoo
11-25-2011, 01:35 PM
Look, I'm with you if the Chiefs pass on a first round pick for Orton. I'm going to be absolutely livid. But Orton over Stanzi... I'd love to give Stanzi a chance, but I think it's reaching to say that this is a bad move. There's a lot of bad that can come if Stanzi struggles to close the season. Again, the biggest fear to me is that Bowe gets fed up and refuses to re-sign.

It's the fear mentality of playing a rookie QB that Chiefs fans have yet it's ok to bring in a rehash retread QBs time and time again. There is huge amount of "what ifs" every day of life. What if by chance that we change the mental attitude & grow a set of brass balls to change the way this organization is ran?

BoneKrusher
11-25-2011, 01:36 PM
Yeah, he's been spoiled by the stellar QB play of the Raiders for FAR too long.

ROFL

kysirsoze
11-25-2011, 01:51 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm not banking from this.

And I've been here for a while...

The missing step involves Dave Ramsey.

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 01:55 PM
The missing step involves Dave Ramsey.

Hey don't blame SuperDave for your problems you OWS protester

whoman69
11-25-2011, 01:59 PM
Shut your whore mouth

You've played this line way out.

Rausch
11-25-2011, 02:04 PM
The missing step involves Dave Ramsey.

I have another loud sound.....effect......somewhere....

Von Dumbass
11-25-2011, 02:04 PM
I think Pioli has quietly tried to resign Bowe but Bowe turned it down. I expect a franchise tag and trade and if Bowe isn't traded I can sense a holdout.

kysirsoze
11-25-2011, 02:05 PM
I think Pioli has quietly tried to resign Bowe but Bowe turned it down. I expect a franchise tag and trade and if Bowe isn't traded I can sense a holdout.

Thanks for all your thinking and sensing. Valuable contributions.

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 02:09 PM
I think Pioli has quietly tried to resign Bowe but Bowe turned it down. I expect a franchise tag and trade and if Bowe isn't traded I can sense a holdout.

I think Bowe will be a Raider or Bronco next year

Rausch
11-25-2011, 02:10 PM
I think Bowe will be a Raider or Bronco next year

I think next year Tim Brown is a Chief!1!

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 02:11 PM
I think next year Tim Brown is a Chief!1!

Don't be a smart ass

Rausch
11-25-2011, 02:25 PM
Don't be a smart ass

Sorry.

Thought we were communicating there...

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 02:55 PM
Sorry.

Thought we were communicating there...

Apology accepted

Sent from my GTablet using Tapatalk

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 02:59 PM
I think Bowe will be a Raider or Bronco next year

Nope. He will be Tagged.

FAX
11-25-2011, 03:04 PM
Nope. He will be Tagged.

I can't think of anyone else who would make more sense next year. To tag, I mean ... not that Bowe will make a lot of sense next year, because I don't think that's really his strong suit. I mean, when I think "Bowe", I don't automatically think "making sense". Except, that is, when it comes to catching footballs and getting the franchise tag next year. That makes sense.

FAX

htismaqe
11-25-2011, 05:08 PM
We need a franchise QB but is over 3 seconds 4/5 times in 40 dropbacks any good? Doesn't sound to good to me.

Before the game got out of hand (the punt return) he dropped back like 16 times and they ran like 7 or 8 quick passes/screens. He took the hot read 3 or 4 times. He was sacked once and pressured up the middle one time (the INT)

The other 3 or 4 plays, he had all day to throw.

It's hard to judge the 2nd half because we were playing catch-up and the defense knew we had to throw the ball...

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 05:09 PM
They may tag Orton

whoman69
11-25-2011, 05:29 PM
They may tag Orton

Your momma may get tagged too, but I doubt it.

BossChief
11-25-2011, 05:35 PM
I think Pioli has quietly tried to resign Bowe but Bowe turned it down. I expect a franchise tag and trade and if Bowe isn't traded I can sense a holdout.
If I were Bowe, I wouldnt want to re-sign right now either.

I would want this team to make a serious move to get a QB before I sign to stay here for the next 6 years.

If it were me, claiming Orton wouldnt change that a bit....Im talking bringing in a LEGIT guy to groom.
They may tag Orton

no chance

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 05:36 PM
Your momma may get tagged too, but I doubt it.

Ooooooo Burnsauce did I hit a nerve Pumpkin?

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 05:37 PM
If I were Bowe, I wouldnt want to re-sign right now either.

I would want this team to make a serious move to get a QB before I sign to stay here for the next 6 years.

If it were me, claiming Orton wouldnt change that a bit....Im talking bringing in a LEGIT guy to groom.


no chance

Bowe don't want a rookie QB he wants Cassel or Kyle

philfree
11-25-2011, 05:40 PM
Before the game got out of hand (the punt return) he dropped back like 16 times and they ran like 7 or 8 quick passes/screens. He took the hot read 3 or 4 times. He was sacked once and pressured up the middle one time (the INT)

The other 3 or 4 plays, he had all day to throw.

It's hard to judge the 2nd half because we were playing catch-up and the defense knew we had to throw the ball...


I could go watch it again but it's just too ugly of an experience. IMO franchise QB or not this O line isn't good enough. I want to draft a franchise QB but I'd prefer to put him behind an above avg line. I don't think Aaron Rogers could lead a team to a championship behind our line.

BossChief
11-25-2011, 05:46 PM
Bowe don't want a rookie QB he wants Cassel or Kyle

Next year, no doubt.

After that, no way.

IMO Orton should get a 3 year extension that is equal to what is owed on Cassels contract...something like 3 years 15-20 million and Cassel should be moved for whatever we can get.

Wash our hands of that "era" and move on.

If Bowe wants to be a bitch about it, fuck em....tag him and if he doesnt want to sign it, retire... unless someone comes in and offers up a first and third or something like that which in that case, move him and draft his replacement or use the picks to move up for a better QB.

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 05:50 PM
he would sign if he were tagged because he would make the average of the top 3 salaries for WR in the NFL

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 05:59 PM
I could go watch it again but it's just too ugly of an experience. IMO franchise QB or not this O line isn't good enough. I want to draft a franchise QB but I'd prefer to put him behind an above avg line. I don't think Aaron Rogers could lead a team to a championship behind our line.

:facepalm:

htismaqe
11-25-2011, 06:02 PM
I could go watch it again but it's just too ugly of an experience. IMO franchise QB or not this O line isn't good enough. I want to draft a franchise QB but I'd prefer to put him behind an above avg line. I don't think Aaron Rogers could lead a team to a championship behind our line.

He already led the Packers to a championship behind a mediocre line, one that was missing (I believe) 2 starters.

BossChief
11-25-2011, 06:04 PM
One thing for sure, if his agent sits at the table with Pioli and expects to get LF money, he can go fuck himself.

FWIW though, if they are realistic about their expectations, he is probably worth a contract similar to what Andre Johnson got at 7yrs/62 million.

BTW, here is the list of the top ten highest paid receivers in football if anyone wants to see how things may play out.

Top ten highest paid receivers (http://www.numeroten.com/top10/sports/files/top-10-highest-paid-wide-receivers-in-the-nfl-2011.html)

philfree
11-25-2011, 06:13 PM
He already led the Packers to a championship behind a mediocre line, one that was missing (I believe) 2 starters.

I think our line is worse then theirs. I also believe that having the same offense in place(forever) with those players gives them a big advantage. To me I just can't see settling for even an avg o line and IMO ours is less then avg. Given the chance why wouldn't we try to improve it?

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 06:21 PM
I think our line is worse then theirs. I also believe that having the same offense in place(forever) with those players gives them a big advantage. To me I just can't see settling for even an avg o line and IMO ours is less then avg. Given the chance why wouldn't we try to improve it?

As has been stated several times, THIS LINE IS NOT THAT BAD.

Ours looks worse due to lousy QB play and JCs absence.

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-25-2011, 06:22 PM
I love how this has went from a Orton sucks balls thread to the greatest QB in the history of the NFL in a matter of 2 days

He's the next Brees :):). Deal with it biatch.

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-25-2011, 06:23 PM
I think our line is worse then theirs. I also believe that having the same offense in place(forever) with those players gives them a big advantage. To me I just can't see settling for even an avg o line and IMO ours is less then avg. Given the chance why wouldn't we try to improve it?

Have you not watched the same team as the rest of us the last 20 plus years?? They have had plenty of outstanding lines in that time. What haven't they had?

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 06:23 PM
He's the next Brees :):). Deal with it biatch.

I can't compete with that :hail:

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 06:32 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r8_buda5vWo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-25-2011, 06:34 PM
It does pain me that Neckbeard is on this team, but now at least we have a QB as good as the one out in Oakland.

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 06:36 PM
It does pain me that Neckbeard is on this team, but now at least we have a QB as good as the one out in Oakland.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLLMAO

philfree
11-25-2011, 06:56 PM
Have you not watched the same team as the rest of us the last 20 plus years?? They have had plenty of outstanding lines in that time. What haven't they had?

Didn't you read where I said we need a franchise QB? That doesn't change the fact that our o line is good enough.

philfree
11-25-2011, 06:59 PM
As has been stated several times, THIS LINE IS NOT THAT BAD.
Ours looks worse due to lousy QB play and JCs absence.

It ain't good enough. That's how I see it and why would anyone settle for avg at any position?

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 07:19 PM
It ain't good enough. That's how I see it and why would anyone settle for avg at any position?

I've said this before, but our line is no worse than the Packers, Steelers, or Patriots.

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 07:20 PM
That said, replacing Wiegman and Richardson would be great.

R8RFAN
11-25-2011, 07:32 PM
I have always thought Wiegman was pretty good

philfree
11-25-2011, 07:35 PM
I've said this before, but our line is no worse than the Packers, Steelers, or Patriots.

I disagree. Those lines have the ability to adjust as the games go on. Ours just gets exposed.

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 07:40 PM
I disagree. Those lines have the ability to adjust as the games go on. Ours just gets exposed.

They adjust because of the QBs.

Ours get exposed BECAUSE of the QB.

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 07:42 PM
I have always thought Wiegman was pretty good

He's not terrible, he's just old.

Fruit Ninja
11-25-2011, 07:44 PM
Husdon will replace Casey. No way richardson is still around next year, dude is terrible. I think our Oline isnt that bad. Palko had plenty of time to throw. One thing i liked about him is he was fast in his drop back. Cassel looks slow as fuck dropping back.

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-25-2011, 07:45 PM
They adjust because of the QBs.

Ours get exposed BECAUSE of the QB.

Why is this so hard for him understand??

philfree
11-25-2011, 07:50 PM
They adjust because of the QBs.

Ours get exposed BECAUSE of the QB.

It's both. I think our O line is over rated by the fans around here because of the want of a franchise QB. That want is warranted but it causes peeps to over rate our O line.

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 07:53 PM
Husdon will replace Casey. No way richardson is still around next year, dude is terrible. I think our Oline isnt that bad. Palko had plenty of time to throw. One thing i liked about him is he was fast in his drop back. Cassel looks slow as fuck dropping back.

Everything Cassel does can be clocked by a Sundial.

htismaqe
11-25-2011, 08:30 PM
I think our line is worse then theirs. I also believe that having the same offense in place(forever) with those players gives them a big advantage. To me I just can't see settling for even an avg o line and IMO ours is less then avg. Given the chance why wouldn't we try to improve it?

That's not the point.

There's more than a few people that thing the line is a BIGGER problem than Cassel.

Look, I'm not suggesting we don't need help on the line.

But put Aaron Rodgers behind this one and he could still be undefeated.

philfree
11-25-2011, 08:44 PM
That's not the point.

There's more than a few people that thing the line is a BIGGER problem than Cassel.

Look, I'm not suggesting we don't need help on the line.

But put Aaron Rodgers behind this one and he could still be undefeated.

To me that's a stretch.

BigMeatballDave
11-25-2011, 09:11 PM
To me that's a stretch.

It really isn't.

This is how important the QB position is.

philfree
11-25-2011, 09:18 PM
It really isn't.

This is how important the QB position is.

We won't agree on that...that's cool though.

Our O line sucks. There's no position where we dominate on our O line. Every position is just barely good enough. Inconsistent at every spot.

milkman
11-25-2011, 10:02 PM
I disagree. Those lines have the ability to adjust as the games go on. Ours just gets exposed.

Those lines adjust because they have QBs that can read defenses and make throws on time.

JFC, you're a fucking idiot.

JFC.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-25-2011, 10:43 PM
To me that's a stretch.

I'd be willing to bet both lines have performed about the same, perhaps giving the edge to KC. KC definitely has an advantage in the future (IMO) at LT, LG, and C.

philfree
11-25-2011, 11:37 PM
Those lines adjust because they have QBs that can read defenses and make throws on time.

JFC, you're a ****ing idiot.

JFC.

LOL Reading is fundamental.

philfree
11-25-2011, 11:40 PM
I'd be willing to bet both lines have performed about the same, perhaps giving the edge to KC. KC definitely has an advantage in the future (IMO) at LT, LG, and C.

You can bet all you want but this O line just isn't that good. Like I said we need a Franchise QB but why would we want to settle for an avg or slightly lesser O line?

Ugly Duck
11-26-2011, 12:48 AM
I've said this before, but our line is no worse than the Packers, Steelers, or Patriots.

NFL.com O-line Rankings mostly agree with you:

4 Raiders
8 Patriots
18 Broncos
21 Chiefs
22 Chargers
24 Packers
28 Steelers

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&tabSeq=2&qualified=true

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-26-2011, 12:52 AM
You can bet all you want but this O line just isn't that good. Like I said we need a Franchise QB but why would we want to settle for an avg or slightly lesser O line?

This is not a below average line. It's just not. Replace Richardson and Wiegmann and it's damned near elite.

Besides, here are the starters on OL for the last six SB teams:

LT: Jermon Bushrod, Charlie Johnson, Jonathan Scott, Chad Clifton, Max Starks, Mike Gandy
LG: Carl Nicks, Ryan Lilja, Chris Kemoatu (x2), Daryn College, Reggie Wells
C: Jonathan Goodwin, Jeff Saturday, Doug Legursky, Scott Wells, Justin Hartwig, Lyle Sendlein
RG: Jahri Evans, Kyle DeVan, Ramon Foster, Josh Sitton, Darnell Stapleton, Deuce Lutui
RT: John Stinchcomb, Ryan Diem, Flozell Adams, Brian Bulaga, Levi Brown, Willie Colon

Of those 29 players there are six Pro Bowlers:

Chad Clifton, Flozell Adams (who was a shell of himself at this point; it was his last year in the NFL), John Stinchcomb (played one more year after his SB appearance), Carl Nicks, Jahri Evans, Jeff Saturday

6/29, barely over 20%. If you count Kemoatu twice, then it's really 6/30, basically one PBer per line, and that assumes that guys like Adams and Stinchcomb were playing at a Pro Bowl level at that point in their career, and the truth was they were anything but.

You don't need a great offensive line. You need a competent one. The Chiefs' line is more than competent.

BossChief
11-26-2011, 01:13 AM
I'd be willing to bet both lines have performed about the same, perhaps giving the edge to KC. KC definitely has an advantage in the future (IMO) at LT, LG, and C.
Do you see Asamoah as a LG long term?

If so, why?

He is a perfect fit at RG for us, IMO.

BigMeatballDave
11-26-2011, 01:15 AM
NFL.com O-line Rankings mostly agree with you:

4 Raiders
8 Patriots
18 Broncos
21 Chiefs
22 Chargers
24 Packers
28 Steelers

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&tabSeq=2&qualified=true

I'm surprised the Pats line is rated that high. Still wondering how the Chiefs sacked Brady 3 times.

Count Alex's Losses
11-26-2011, 01:15 AM
LT: Jermon Bushrod, Charlie Johnson, Jonathan Scott, Chad Clifton, Max Starks, Mike Gandy

LMAO.

The only guy on there who is close to elite is Chad Clifton.

True fans, die.

BossChief
11-26-2011, 01:26 AM
I'm surprised the Pats line is rated that high. Still wondering how the Chiefs sacked Brady 3 times.

Romeo Crennel took the training wheels off.

BigMeatballDave
11-26-2011, 02:01 AM
Romeo Crennel took the training wheels off.

Yeah, they certainly blitzed more.

I hope they plan on this again Sunday.

whoman69
11-26-2011, 08:49 AM
Yeah, they certainly blitzed more.

I hope they plan on this again Sunday.

They're going to need to mix it up more. Once they knew we were coming on blitzes they adjusted and took advantage.

philfree
11-26-2011, 09:40 AM
This is not a below average line. It's just not. Replace Richardson and Wiegmann and it's damned near elite.

Besides, here are the starters on OL for the last six SB teams:

LT: Jermon Bushrod, Charlie Johnson, Jonathan Scott, Chad Clifton, Max Starks, Mike Gandy
LG: Carl Nicks, Ryan Lilja, Chris Kemoatu (x2), Daryn College, Reggie Wells
C: Jonathan Goodwin, Jeff Saturday, Doug Legursky, Scott Wells, Justin Hartwig, Lyle Sendlein
RG: Jahri Evans, Kyle DeVan, Ramon Foster, Josh Sitton, Darnell Stapleton, Deuce Lutui
RT: John Stinchcomb, Ryan Diem, Flozell Adams, Brian Bulaga, Levi Brown, Willie Colon

Of those 29 players there are six Pro Bowlers:

Chad Clifton, Flozell Adams (who was a shell of himself at this point; it was his last year in the NFL), John Stinchcomb (played one more year after his SB appearance), Carl Nicks, Jahri Evans, Jeff Saturday

6/29, barely over 20%. If you count Kemoatu twice, then it's really 6/30, basically one PBer per line, and that assumes that guys like Adams and Stinchcomb were playing at a Pro Bowl level at that point in their career, and the truth was they were anything but.

You don't need a great offensive line. You need a competent one. The Chiefs' line is more than competent.

If the Chiefs were to draft a QB like we all want the chances are he'll be closer to a Ryan or a Flacco and not a Rogers or Big Ben. That being the case we should try to upgrade our o line. Of course I'd try to upgrade any position on the team any chance I got. :shrug: I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

SNR
11-26-2011, 09:48 AM
This is not a below average line. It's just not. Replace Richardson and Wiegmann and it's damned near elite.

Besides, here are the starters on OL for the last six SB teams:

LT: Jermon Bushrod, Charlie Johnson, Jonathan Scott, Chad Clifton, Max Starks, Mike Gandy
LG: Carl Nicks, Ryan Lilja, Chris Kemoatu (x2), Daryn College, Reggie Wells
C: Jonathan Goodwin, Jeff Saturday, Doug Legursky, Scott Wells, Justin Hartwig, Lyle Sendlein
RG: Jahri Evans, Kyle DeVan, Ramon Foster, Josh Sitton, Darnell Stapleton, Deuce Lutui
RT: John Stinchcomb, Ryan Diem, Flozell Adams, Brian Bulaga, Levi Brown, Willie Colon

Of those 29 players there are six Pro Bowlers:

Chad Clifton, Flozell Adams (who was a shell of himself at this point; it was his last year in the NFL), John Stinchcomb (played one more year after his SB appearance), Carl Nicks, Jahri Evans, Jeff Saturday

6/29, barely over 20%. If you count Kemoatu twice, then it's really 6/30, basically one PBer per line, and that assumes that guys like Adams and Stinchcomb were playing at a Pro Bowl level at that point in their career, and the truth was they were anything but.

You don't need a great offensive line. You need a competent one. The Chiefs' line is more than competent.QED

milkman
11-26-2011, 09:50 AM
LOL Reading is fundamental.

Okay dumbass, tell me what I didn't understand.

If a QB can make reads, and adjusts the blocking scheme presnap, then maybe, just maybe, our O-Line doesn't just get exposed.

How many times have you seen one of our O-Linemen just standing around looking for somebody to block, while at the same time, defenders are running free to the QB.

whoman69
11-26-2011, 09:54 AM
Okay dumbass, tell me what I didn't understand.

If a QB can make reads, and adjusts the blocking scheme presnap, then maybe, just maybe, our O-Line doesn't just get exposed.

How many times have you seen one of our O-Linemen just standing around looking for somebody to block, while at the same time, defenders are running free to the QB.

Every game the last three years except the last one. Cassel should be truly embarrassed that CFL reject Tyler Palko can adjust the coverages and he can't.

SNR
11-26-2011, 09:56 AM
If the Chiefs were to draft a QB like we all want the chances are he'll be closer to a Ryan or a Flacco and not a Rogers or Big Ben. That being the case we should try to upgrade our o line. Of course I'd try to upgrade any position on the team any chance I got. :shrug: I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks that way.We should replace Richardson and Lilja if Hudson is going to be our future center. But it's not a priority. It makes no sense whatsoever to draft a tackle in the first round out of desperation like Saccorape thinks we should

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 09:57 AM
Every game the last three years except the last one. Cassel should be truly embarrassed that CFL reject Tyler Palko can adjust the coverages and he can't.

ROFL

Yeah he was masterful.... ROFL

Palko was so horrible on monday night, he didnt adjust to anything. Threw some of the worse picks you will ever see...

There was nothing he did to adjust for anything. I understand the Cassel hate, but to make shit up to add to it is laughable.

OnTheWarpath58
11-26-2011, 10:00 AM
ROFL

Yeah he was masterful.... ROFL

Palko was so horrible on monday night, he didnt adjust to anything. Threw some of the worse picks you will ever see...

There was nothing he did to adjust for anything. I understand the Cassel hate, but to make shit up to add to it is laughable.

Sorry, but you're dead wrong.

Paklo was going through his reads, and more often than not, identified the open WR.

His issue Monday night wasn't necessarily decision making, but his accuracy.

His first two INT's were thrown to the right WR, but was behind both of them. All that was needed was a good throw.

SNR
11-26-2011, 10:03 AM
ROFL

Yeah he was masterful.... ROFL

Palko was so horrible on monday night, he didnt adjust to anything. Threw some of the worse picks you will ever see...

There was nothing he did to adjust for anything. I understand the Cassel hate, but to make shit up to add to it is laughable.He sucks worse than Cassel because he's a midget with terrible mechanics and an erratic arm that makes my grandpa's pee stream look like a water fountain's. But he's far cooler in the pocket and ADJUSTS off his coverages. I haven't seen Cassel do that fucking ONCE in three goddamn years

philfree
11-26-2011, 10:12 AM
We should replace Richardson and Lilja if Hudson is going to be our future center. But it's not a priority. It makes no sense whatsoever to draft a tackle in the first round out of desperation like Saccorape thinks we should

I was never suggesting that.

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 10:13 AM
He sucks worse than Cassel because he's a midget with terrible mechanics and an erratic arm that makes my grandpa's pee stream look like a water fountain's. But he's far cooler in the pocket and ADJUSTS off his coverages. I haven't seen Cassel do that ****ing ONCE in three goddamn years

Fair enough, I still wont crown him.. He took way too many sacks by not adjusting to what the defense was doing... He went through his reads by moving his head on the screen. As I dont know what his reads are.

Either way. He is a god damn joke along with Cassel...

I am sick of the way they are handling this QB position. Whether he reads/adjusts or not...

philfree
11-26-2011, 10:14 AM
Okay dumbass, tell me what I didn't understand.

If a QB can make reads, and adjusts the blocking scheme presnap, then maybe, just maybe, our O-Line doesn't just get exposed.

How many times have you seen one of our O-Linemen just standing around looking for somebody to block, while at the same time, defenders are running free to the QB.


I was just mocking your schtick,

GFC what an idiot!


:p

whoman69
11-26-2011, 10:55 AM
He sucks worse than Cassel because he's a midget with terrible mechanics and an erratic arm that makes my grandpa's pee stream look like a water fountain's. But he's far cooler in the pocket and ADJUSTS off his coverages. I haven't seen Cassel do that ****ing ONCE in three goddamn years

What does it say about Cassel when Tyler Palko exposes him as a pretender?

BigMeatballDave
11-26-2011, 11:00 AM
ROFL

Yeah he was masterful.... ROFL

Palko was so horrible on monday night, he didnt adjust to anything. Threw some of the worse picks you will ever see...

There was nothing he did to adjust for anything. I understand the Cassel hate, but to make shit up to add to it is laughable.

Will you please stop hanging from Matt's junk?

Palko sucks, but did things that Cassel is incapable of.

htismaqe
11-26-2011, 11:17 AM
Sorry, but you're dead wrong.

Paklo was going through his reads, and more often than not, identified the open WR.

His issue Monday night wasn't necessarily decision making, but his accuracy.

His first two INT's were thrown to the right WR, but was behind both of them. All that was needed was a good throw.

Yup.

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 11:23 AM
Will you please stop hanging from Matt's junk?

Palko sucks, but did things that Cassel is incapable of.

Big fucking deal...

What is sad is that we are using Cassel as the standard... And we are debating Cassel vs Orton now?

I dont care how much you lick the ballsack of Cassel, He sucks ass. And on top of that, the way Pioli and Co are handling the QB situation is totally inexcusable...

milkman
11-26-2011, 11:34 AM
Big ****ing deal...

What is sad is that we are using Cassel as the standard... And we are debating Cassel vs Orton now?

I dont care how much you lick the ballsack of Cassel, He sucks ass. And on top of that, the way Pioli and Co are handling the QB situation is totally inexcusable...

You are truely, one stupid motherfucker.

I am not joking.

You are just an amazingly stupid motherfucker.

It's almost impossible to be as incredibly stupid as you are, yet you stand as living proof that it not only possible, but that this level of stupidity actually exists.

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 11:43 AM
You are truely, one stupid mother****er.

I am not joking.

You are just an amazingly stupid mother****er.

It's almost impossible to be as incredibly stupid as you are, yet you stand as living proof that it not only possible, but that this level of stupidity actually exists.

ROFL.

Ah a Cassel nut hugger is pissed off...

Tough shit old man... Cassel blows, Orton blows just as much. You can be pissed and call people stupid all day long, your act is tired...

Give it up.. WE are failing at the QB position no matter how hard you are holding on to Cassels ballsack...

milkman
11-26-2011, 11:47 AM
ROFL.

Ah a Cassel nut hugger is pissed off...

Tough shit old man... Cassel blows, Orton blows just as much. You can be pissed and call people stupid all day long, your act is tired...

Give it up.. WE are failing at the QB position no matter how hard you are holding on to Cassels ballsack...

What's truely sad about your stupidity is that you can't even begin to grasp why you are so stupid.

Not even a flicker of light.

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 11:48 AM
What's truely sad about your stupidity is that you can't even begin to grasp why you are so stupid.

Not even a flicker of light.

Is that the best you can do?

Just call people stupid on a message board?

ROFL

I cant help but ROFL when you do shit like this...

whoman69
11-26-2011, 11:51 AM
What's truely sad about your stupidity is that you can't even begin to grasp why you are so stupid.

Not even a flicker of light.

Yeah, but he can sure play the banjo.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-biG5_TEwKY4/TZSGZcUws7I/AAAAAAAAAAw/4ULaPOocBXM/s1600/deliverance_banjo.jpg

milkman
11-26-2011, 11:51 AM
Is that the best you can do?

Just call people stupid on a message board?

ROFL

I cant help but ROFL when you do shit like this...

When I debate with people with some intelligence, I offer my best.

For you, why waste time?

You wouldn't be able to grasp an intelligent argument.

You clearly have no clue.

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 11:52 AM
Yeah, but he can sure play the banjo.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-biG5_TEwKY4/TZSGZcUws7I/AAAAAAAAAAw/4ULaPOocBXM/s1600/deliverance_banjo.jpg

No I cant... WTF makes you think I can play a banjo? I have zero music talent...

At least know your facts...

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 11:54 AM
When I debate with people with some intelligence, I offer my best.

For you, why waste time?

You wouldn't be able to grasp an intelligent argument.

You clearly have no clue.

Then stop replying and put me on ignore...

YOU are the one wasting your time, not me... YOU are the one replying to my messages in this thread....

And seriously old man, WTF are you talking about... I wasnt even having a discussion with you about anything in this thread... Do you have the early onset of Demensia or something?

Jesus old people are fucking crazy...

milkman
11-26-2011, 11:55 AM
No I cant... WTF makes you think I can play a banjo? I have zero music talent...

At least know your facts...

Wow.

Just wow.

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 11:57 AM
Wow.

Just wow.

:facepalm:

WOW Just WOW...

chiefzilla1501
11-26-2011, 11:57 AM
ROFL

Yeah he was masterful.... ROFL

Palko was so horrible on monday night, he didnt adjust to anything. Threw some of the worse picks you will ever see...

There was nothing he did to adjust for anything. I understand the Cassel hate, but to make shit up to add to it is laughable.

Do me a favor and re-watch the game. Watch what Palko does in pre-snap.

He moved his blockers to adjust for the coverage. Literally tapped them on the shoulder and in some cases, grabbed them by the collar and moved them into place.

He's not as quick as an great QB in getting rid of the ball quickly and going through progressions. But at least he does it. More than can be said for Cassel.

BigMeatballDave
11-26-2011, 11:58 AM
Big fucking deal...

What is sad is that we are using Cassel as the standard... And we are debating Cassel vs Orton now?

I dont care how much you lick the ballsack of Cassel, He sucks ass. And on top of that, the way Pioli and Co are handling the QB situation is totally inexcusable...:spock:

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 12:00 PM
:spock:


:spock:

milkman
11-26-2011, 12:01 PM
Then stop replying and put me on ignore...

YOU are the one wasting your time, not me... YOU are the one replying to my messages in this thread....

And seriously old man, WTF are you talking about... I wasnt even having a discussion with you about anything in this thread... Do you have the early onset of Demensia or something?

Jesus old people are ****ing crazy...

Wow, you actually got something right.

Mark the date.

You're right, you weren't having a discussion with me, but your post was so stupid, I was in absolute awe, and felt compelled to point out your awe inspiring stupidity.

As to ignore, I have never used that feature.

I mean, why would I want to miss the awe inspring stupidity?

BigMeatballDave
11-26-2011, 12:01 PM
Do me a favor and re-watch the game. Watch what Palko does in pre-snap.

He moved his blockers to adjust for the coverage. Literally tapped them on the shoulder and in some cases, grabbed them by the collar and moved them into place.

He's not as quick as an great QB in getting rid of the ball quickly and going through progressions. But at least he does it. More than can be said for Cassel.I didnt see it live, but I was listening at work. I watched it later in the week and I never recall Cassel doing these things. well, some but not nearly as much.

Reerun_KC
11-26-2011, 12:30 PM
Wow, you actually got something right.

Mark the date.

You're right, you weren't having a discussion with me, but your post was so stupid, I was in absolute awe, and felt compelled to point out your awe inspiring stupidity.

As to ignore, I have never used that feature.

I mean, why would I want to miss the awe inspring stupidity?

You remind me of my Great Grandpa Voss... He lost his leg in the Great war, was bound to a wheel chair all of his life. Smoked pipes and drank Buckhorn beer all day..

He was mean and angry... But he was a blast to be around...

The fact that you are old and angry as well is pretty cool...

Rausch
11-26-2011, 12:33 PM
I mean, why would I want to miss the awe inspring stupidity?

It'll come to you...

JCharles1981
11-27-2011, 12:23 AM
Orton in his two years in our offense-

62.1% 3,802 yards 21 TD 12 INT 86.8 Rating 7.0 YPA
58.8% 3,653 yards 20 TD 9 INT 87.5 Rating 7.3 YPA

Cassel those same last two years in the same system with better cast-

55.0% 2,924 yards 16 TD 16 INT 69.9 Rating 5.93 YPA
58.2% 3,116 yards 27 TD 7 INT 93.0 Rating 6.92 YPA

The only real difference I see is that Orton has a better season pass yards total than Cassell. Other than that, Kyle Orton isn't going to perform that much better than Cassell if the Chiefs want to do better than the first round of the playoffs before the end of this decade. They need to draft a top rookie QB and give him 3-4 seasons to develop.

BigMeatballDave
11-27-2011, 12:26 AM
The only real difference I see is that Orton has a better season pass yards total than Cassell. Other than that, Kyle Orton isn't going to perform that much better than Cassell if the Chiefs want to do better than the first round of the playoffs before the end of this decade. They need to draft a top rookie QB and give him 3-4 seasons to develop.Orton did that with no running game.

JCharles1981
11-27-2011, 01:16 AM
Orton did that with no running game.

Regardless, he is not the man we need in order to regain a superstar offense. Our offensive line is not strategized around the QB like the way the Colts offense was around Peyton Manning.