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Deberg_1990
12-15-2011, 11:11 AM
Would you like as the next HC of the Chiefs? What happened to this guy? Why cant he get any traction as a HC prospect anymore?

80-62 regular season record

5-3 in the playoffs

Won a Super Bowl


Thoughts?

Frosty
12-15-2011, 11:13 AM
I wouldn't be too upset, especially considering the alternatives.

KC Tattoo
12-15-2011, 11:14 AM
Elvis Grrbiotch is what happened to Brian Billick. They took a flier on that guy & the result was not good. IIRC.

O.city
12-15-2011, 11:15 AM
Hell if we are gonna start throwing names out, bring in Mike Gundy to be the offensive coordinator or HC. I don't care.

Predarat
12-15-2011, 11:16 AM
I think he would be a good hire. He has a good history, I'm not sure why he has not been hired by anyone else yet.

Detoxing
12-15-2011, 11:16 AM
Failure to identify a QB. Failure to create a passing attack. Not a good candidate for the "new" NFL.

DaKCMan AP
12-15-2011, 11:16 AM
If you think Pioli and Haley clashed, Pioli-Billick would start WWIII.

MOhillbilly
12-15-2011, 11:17 AM
Failure to identify a QB. Failure to create a passing attack. Not a good candidate for the "new" NFL.

End thread.

Predarat
12-15-2011, 11:18 AM
If you think Pioli and Haley clashed, Pioli-Billick would start WWIII.

That would be good as long as Polly loses.

durtyrute
12-15-2011, 11:18 AM
I would take him over just about anyone else. Not because he's better just because his name isn't superglued to any other team like Cowher or Fisher. Yea he took the Ravens to the Superbowl but he wasn't there for that long and that was a long ass time ago. Cowher will always be a Steeler and Fisher will be a Titan/Oiler

DaWolf
12-15-2011, 11:22 AM
Umm, based on his history in developing QB's and offenses, no thanks.

Sounds like he's on the list in Miami...

loochy
12-15-2011, 11:22 AM
Failure to identify a QB. Failure to create a passing attack.

Then he will fit in perfectly here.

Deberg_1990
12-15-2011, 11:22 AM
Failure to identify a QB. Failure to create a passing attack. Not a good candidate for the "new" NFL.

I always thought the irony was that he was known as an offensive guru (1998 Vikings O) yet he won the Super Bowl with defense.

ILChief
12-15-2011, 11:23 AM
Elvis Grrbiotch is what happened to Brian Billick. They took a flier on that guy & the result was not good. IIRC.

I think it was kyle boller that got billick canned

KC Tattoo
12-15-2011, 11:24 AM
Failure to identify a QB. Failure to create a passing attack. Not a good candidate for the "new" NFL.

Elvis Grrbitch.

Baconeater
12-15-2011, 11:26 AM
I dunno, is he bringing a young Randy Moss with him?

DaWolf
12-15-2011, 11:26 AM
I always thought the irony was that he was known as an offensive guru (1998 Vikings O) yet he won the Super Bowl with defense.

Based on the sustained success Baltimore has had, I would say their success is more a result of Ozzie Newsome and his personnel department than the head coach. They've become like a Pittsburgh in the sense that they've put in a system, they've drafted good players, and they've established how they are going to win. Their coaches are a part of it, but they essentially fit into the system. I'd put most of the credit of them winning on Ozzie Newsome, but Billick does deserve credit for how he motivated that 2000 team through the playoffs...

KC Tattoo
12-15-2011, 11:27 AM
I think it was kyle boller that got billick canned

That could be, but the year after they won the SB they took our shit QB & that turned into a cancer for them iirc. Then they had to settle for Kyle Boller and it snow balled from there.

FringeNC
12-15-2011, 11:27 AM
The next guy will be all about having a history and being able to work with Pioli and respecting the Patriots Way. Ferentz, Crennel, McDaniels....maybe a few others. List is not long at all. No way Clark Hunt allows Pioli to hire someone who may possibly feud with Pioli.

mnchiefsguy
12-15-2011, 12:00 PM
At first glance, I would have said no. But after hearing Billick on NFL Network talking about how it is a GM's league, and how the coach and the GM need to have a close working relationship and work together to produce a winning club, I would be on board with hiring him. He sounded fairly humble, and seemed to indicate that he would not expect as much control as Cowher, etc. in the front office. A Billick offense with a qb that could get the ball to Bowe and Baldwin with Charles coming out of the backfield could be an awesome thing to behold.

whoman69
12-15-2011, 12:25 PM
When you are supposed to be an offensive genious with one of the best offenses in history in the Vikings, then you go how ever many quarters they went through without an offensive score, what's the point?

Won't have the drive to get the job done.

Reerun_KC
12-15-2011, 12:26 PM
Hum, interesting thought...

Not sure how I would feel about that, His offeneses where shit in BMore...

But then again their offense is still shit.. So??????

memyselfI
12-15-2011, 12:30 PM
I have wondered why he hasn't been in the list of top coaches whose names are being tossed around. He would not be my top choice but I could live with it.

Baby Lee
12-15-2011, 12:31 PM
I always thought the irony was that he was known as an offensive guru (1998 Vikings O) yet he won the Super Bowl with defense.

I think he's a victim of [the nature of] his own success, in that it strongly suggested that it wasn't really his. All world talent in Minn, so people think he's, an offensive genius. Then he goes to Balt and the O is horrible for his entire tenure. The D makes them contenders, but no one thinks that is Billick's doing. Besides Grbac and Boller, he also brought in Tony Banks. I'd take Grbac over Cassel as he has actual skills, but the other two actually out Cassel Cassel.

Detoxing
12-15-2011, 12:33 PM
I think he's a victim of [the nature of] his own success, in that it strongly suggested that it wasn't really his. All world talent in Minn, so people think he's, an offensive genius. Then he goes to Balt and the O is horrible for his entire tenure. The D makes them contenders, but no one thinks that is Billick's doing. Besides Grbac and Boller, he also brought in Tony Banks. I'd take Grbac over Cassel as he has actual skills, but the other two actually out Cassel Cassel.

It just goes to show that a QB makes the coach, not the other way around.

BigMeatballDave
12-15-2011, 12:43 PM
Pass

NJChiefsFan
12-15-2011, 12:43 PM
It just goes to show that a QB makes the coach, not the other way around.

Especially in todays NFL, its pretty true. Every "great and successful" coach seems to have an equal or better QB. Then again maybe they are great because they are smart enough to know what it takes. Some luck into their QB, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't go get one if they hadn't.

FAX
12-15-2011, 12:44 PM
Billick disgusts me.

Besides, what happened to the "can't win 2 SBs with two teams" deal?

FAX

FAX
12-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Especially in todays NFL, its pretty true. Every "great and successful" coach seems to have an equal or better QB. Then again maybe they are great because they are smart enough to know what it takes. Some luck into their QB, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't go get one if they hadn't.

They've screwed around with the rules to such an extent that they've elevated the importance of one position to the detriment of all others.

It cancels out all other efforts to try and achieve parity.

FAX

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-15-2011, 12:48 PM
Billick wasted the prime years of ray lewis and ed reed on Kyle Boller .

Bowser
12-15-2011, 12:49 PM
I'd be less pissed with McDaniels over Billick, and I'll be pleanty pissed if it's McDaniels.

Reerun_KC
12-15-2011, 12:58 PM
I really was gonna say fuck no to Billick... Cause I think he is an arrogrant asscap. But was affraid I would of been labeled a racist...

Thig Lyfe
12-15-2011, 01:01 PM
He sucked in that episode of Match Game he was on.

FAX
12-15-2011, 01:03 PM
He sucked in that episode of Match Game he was on.

That doesn't surprise me. Only one thing matches with "screen pass".

FAX

ChiefsCountry
12-15-2011, 01:05 PM
I would take Grbac in a hearbeat over Cassel.

Detoxing
12-15-2011, 01:06 PM
I would take Grbac in a hearbeat over Cassel.

Damn right.

At least Grbac had a 500 Yard passing game.

It would take 3-4 Games for Cassel to accumulate those kind of numbers.

Frankie
12-15-2011, 01:13 PM
Failure to identify a QB. Failure to create a passing attack. Not a good candidate for the "new" NFL.

He was hired by the Ravens in the first place because his O at Minnesota was super prolific? Ironically his Ravens teams never displayed much offense.

Royal Fanatic
12-15-2011, 01:29 PM
I would take Grbac in a hearbeat over Cassel.

Don't let your hatred of Cassel blind you to Grbac's total suckitude.

He had ONE good year. ONE. And towards the end of that year he didn't play in a critical game because he had an injured pinky finger. The Chiefs lost that game and were eliminated from playoff contention.

You may not like the way Cassel throws the long pass, but you've got to him credit for having guts. He played, what, 10 days after an appendectomy? Grbac would have missed the rest of the season.

The only time Grbac ever came back from an injury was when he broke his collarbone. The only reason he came back that time was so that he could start and lose the playoff game against the Broncos. If he had stayed on the bench, we might have won the Super Bowl with Rich Gannon as our quarterback.

My hatred of Grbac > Your hatred of Cassel

Royal Fanatic
12-15-2011, 01:30 PM
And by the way, I've always wondered why nobody ever hired Billick after the Ravens let him go.

I'll be glad when some coach DOES win a Super Bowl with two different teams. Then maybe everybody will stop believing that it's impossible for a thing like that to happen.

Frosty
12-15-2011, 01:44 PM
He had ONE good year. ONE. And towards the end of that year he didn't play in a critical game because he had an injured pinky finger. The Chiefs lost that game and were eliminated from playoff contention.

Yeah, the Chargers' "1" in their 1-15 season. :banghead:

DaKCMan AP
12-15-2011, 02:01 PM
He sounded fairly humble, and seemed to indicate that he would not expect as much control as Cowher, etc. in the front office.

Brian Billick and humble do not reside in the same universe.

I have wondered why he hasn't been in the list of top coaches whose names are being tossed around. He would not be my top choice but I could live with it.

No one cares what you think, stupid Oakland fan.

Chiefnj2
12-15-2011, 02:03 PM
Damn right.

At least Grbac had a 500 Yard passing game.

It would take 3-4 Games for Cassel to accumulate those kind of numbers.

1 hit and Grbac folded. At least Cassel is tough.

Bowser
12-15-2011, 02:09 PM
Stop talking about Grbac. Grbac always makes me think of how Marty went full idiot and benched Gannon for the playoff game against Denver, and that's just not good for anybody.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 02:11 PM
Stop talking about Grbac. Grbac always makes me think of how Marty went full idiot and benched Gannon for the playoff game against Denver, and that's just not good for anybody.

Grbac was 7-1 as a starter that season. I think a lot of people have VERY selective memory about that game.

Furthermore, we bitch and moan constantly about the team not developing a young QB but then bitch because Marty didn't play the over-the-hill journeyman in a playoff game.

Chiefnj2
12-15-2011, 02:15 PM
Stop talking about Grbac. Grbac always makes me think of how Marty went full idiot and benched Gannon for the playoff game against Denver, and that's just not good for anybody.

I hate Grbac, but he didn't play poorly that game.

OnTheWarpath58
12-15-2011, 02:16 PM
At first glance, I would have said no. But after hearing Billick on NFL Network talking about how it is a GM's league, and how the coach and the GM need to have a close working relationship and work together to produce a winning club, I would be on board with hiring him. He sounded fairly humble, and seemed to indicate that he would not expect as much control as Cowher, etc. in the front office. A Billick offense with a qb that could get the ball to Bowe and Baldwin with Charles coming out of the backfield could be an awesome thing to behold.

I was going to post something similar.

I think he's changed quite a bit in his time off. Seems like I've watched a lot of his games this year, and he's constantly talking about how the "new NFL" is a passing league and that you need an elite QB to win.

On that note, I think I'm going to go back and watch Hard Knocks and America's Game.

There's no chance in hell of him coming here, but he's the only retread I'd be OK with.

ChiefsCountry
12-15-2011, 02:17 PM
Grbac was 7-1 as a starter that season. I think a lot of people have VERY selective memory about that game.

Furthermore, we bitch and moan constantly about the team not developing a young QB but then bitch because Marty didn't play the over-the-hill journeyman in a playoff game.

This. :clap:

FAX
12-15-2011, 02:17 PM
Grbac was 7-1 as a starter that season. I think a lot of people have VERY selective memory about that game.

Furthermore, we bitch and moan constantly about the team not developing a young QB but then bitch because Marty didn't play the over-the-hill journeyman in a playoff game.

There are no absolutes. Only generalities.

Gannon had been playing pretty well.

Marty chose poorly.

FAX

OnTheWarpath58
12-15-2011, 02:18 PM
Grbac was 7-1 as a starter that season. I think a lot of people have VERY selective memory about that game.

Furthermore, we bitch and moan constantly about the team not developing a young QB but then bitch because Marty didn't play the over-the-hill journeyman in a playoff game.

Headshot.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 02:19 PM
I was going to post something similar.

I think he's changed quite a bit in his time off. Seems like I've watched a lot of his games this year, and he's constantly talking about how the "new NFL" is a passing league and that you need an elite QB to win.

On that note, I think I'm going to go back and watch Hard Knocks and America's Game.

There's no chance in hell of him coming here, but he's the only retread I'd be OK with.

Here's the hope.

Clark wants to put butts in the seat and he realizes that someone from the tree isn't gonna do it.

Cowher wants complete control. Fisher wants final say on personnel and $5+M per.

That makes Billick a nearly perfect choice.

Archie F. Swin
12-15-2011, 02:19 PM
Hell if we are gonna start throwing names out, bring in Mike Gundy to be the offensive coordinator or HC. I don't care.

I'm pretty sure OSU didn't get really good until play calling duties were delegated to someone else.

Dexter Manley
12-15-2011, 02:20 PM
Would you like as the next HC of the Chiefs? What happened to this guy? Why cant he get any traction as a HC prospect anymore?

80-62 regular season record

5-3 in the playoffs

Won a Super Bowl


Thoughts?


I think this subject needs to go away for 3 weeks as "new data" arrives.

OnTheWarpath58
12-15-2011, 02:20 PM
Here's the hope.

Clark wants to put butts in the seat and he realizes that someone from the tree isn't gonna do it.

Cowher wants complete control. Fisher wants final say on personnel and $5+M per.

That makes Billick a nearly perfect choice.

Good point.

What are your thoughts on Billick?

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 02:22 PM
There are no absolutes. Only generalities.

Gannon had been playing pretty well.

Marty chose poorly.

FAX

That's the thing, they BOTH were playing well that season.

Grbac had 11 TD and 6 INT. Gannon had 6 TD and 4 INT. Grbac 6.3ypa, Gannon 6.0ypa. Grbac 57% completion, Gannon 56% completion.

They were nearly identical. That season was all about running the ball and a VERY opportunistic defense.

Rams Fan
12-15-2011, 02:24 PM
Today's number is 0.

0.

0 is the number of HCs that have won a Superbowl while being the HC for 2 different teams.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 02:25 PM
Good point.

What are your thoughts on Billick?

I like that he was an offensive coordinator that won a Super Bowl with a defensive team - shows his ability to adapt to his situation.

Not real fond of his choices at QB - Kyle Boller sticks out like a sore thumb - but at least he tried.

I guess if you lined them all up, he wouldn't be too bad. I'd honestly be alright with Gruden too. I'm not really thrilled with the idea of Fisher and I'm just glad there's zero chance of Cowher coming here so that I don't have to think about it.

I really think with the modern state of the NFL, you need a guy that understands how the game works (ie. revolves around the QB) at the top.

-King-
12-15-2011, 02:26 PM
Today's number is 0.

0.

0 is the number of HCs that have won a Superbowl while being the HC for 2 different teams.

People need to stop bringing up that dumbass point.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rams Fan
12-15-2011, 02:26 PM
Not real fond of his choices at QB - Kyle Boller sticks out like a sore thumb - but at least he tried.

Um. That was Newsome's pick.

Thig Lyfe
12-15-2011, 02:27 PM
People need to stop bringing up that dumbass point.
Posted via Mobile Device

Don't you get it? If something has never happened before, it can never happen in the future. It's science.

WhiteWhale
12-15-2011, 02:29 PM
Grbac was 7-1 as a starter that season. I think a lot of people have VERY selective memory about that game.

Furthermore, we bitch and moan constantly about the team not developing a young QB but then bitch because Marty didn't play the over-the-hill journeyman in a playoff game.

What's funny is the 'young QB' retired first and the over the hill journeyman won an MVP.

And Grbac was 8-2 as a starter. Gannon was 5-1.

Rams Fan
12-15-2011, 02:30 PM
Don't you get it? If something has never happened before, it can never happen in the future. It's science.

Not saying that it won't happen. Just that it will be extremely rare when it does happen.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 02:31 PM
Um. That was Newsome's pick.

Newsome and Billick were both there. I'm guessing Billick had at least SOME input into the decision to draft a QB that high.

Rams Fan
12-15-2011, 02:35 PM
Newsome and Billick were both there. I'm guessing Billick had at least SOME input into the decision to draft a QB that high.

Their QB in 2002 was Jeff Blake and their backup was Chris Redman.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 02:36 PM
What's funny is the 'young QB' retired first and the over the hill journeyman won an MVP.

And Grbac was 8-2 as a starter. Gannon was 5-1.

Grbac started the first 9 games but got hurt. I believe he also started the last game. My 7-1 came from him prior to getting hurt.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 02:37 PM
Their QB in 2002 was Jeff Blake and their backup was Chris Redman.

What in the world are you talking about?

ChiefsCountry
12-15-2011, 02:37 PM
Grbac started the first 9 games but got hurt. I believe he also started the last game. My 7-1 came from him prior to getting hurt.

I'm pretty sure he got hurt during the Monday Night game against Pittsburgh and then we got our ass handed to us by the Jaguars next week.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 02:41 PM
I'm pretty sure he got hurt during the Monday Night game against Pittsburgh and then we got our ass handed to us by the Jaguars next week.

That would be correct. I thought I remembered it that way so I looked it up on PFR.

Frosty
12-15-2011, 02:43 PM
Newsome and Billick were both there. I'm guessing Billick had at least SOME input into the decision to draft a QB that high.

Boller ended up being a bust but it wasn't like they reached for him. He was considered a 1st rounder at the time. The Ravens needed a QB in the worse way and the choices in '03 weren't that great (Leftwich and Grossman).

At least he tried.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 02:44 PM
Boller ended up being a bust but it wasn't like they reached for him. He was considered a 1st rounder at the time. The Ravens needed a QB in the worse way and the choices in '03 weren't that great (Leftwich and Grossman).

At least he tried.

Right. I'm guessing that was the point Ram dude was trying to make...

WhiteWhale
12-15-2011, 02:44 PM
Boller ended up being a bust but it wasn't like they reached for him. He was considered a 1st rounder at the time. The Ravens needed a QB in the worse way and the choices in '03 weren't that great (Leftwich and Grossman).

At least he tried.

He was a reach by common logic.

A guy should not fly up draft charts simply because of how far he can throw a football from his knees. That's f**king retarded.

He was a low percentage passer in a high percentage offense. He had all kinds of accuracy problems.

I agree though... A swing and a miss is better than going down looking.

Rams Fan
12-15-2011, 02:48 PM
Right. I'm guessing that was the point Ram dude was trying to make...

That would be correct.

Royal Fanatic
12-15-2011, 02:56 PM
Grbac was 7-1 as a starter that season. I think a lot of people have VERY selective memory about that game.

Furthermore, we bitch and moan constantly about the team not developing a young QB but then bitch because Marty didn't play the over-the-hill journeyman in a playoff game.

:facepalm:

You mean the guy who went on to play for the Oakland fucking Raiders, took them to the Super Bowl, and was named NFL MVP?

That over-the-hill journeyman?

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 03:02 PM
:facepalm:

You mean the guy who went on to play for the Oakland ****ing Raiders, took them to the Super Bowl, and was named NFL MVP?

That over-the-hill journeyman?

Hindsight is always 20/20. At the time he came to KC he had never started more than 12 games in a single season and was actually out of football altogether in 1994.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 03:03 PM
He was a reach by common logic.

A guy should not fly up draft charts simply because of how far he can throw a football from his knees. That's f**king retarded.

He was a low percentage passer in a high percentage offense. He had all kinds of accuracy problems.

I agree though... A swing and a miss is better than going down looking.

When you compare him to Grossman and Leftwich, who both had huge concerns about the length of their delivery IIRC, Boller looked pretty good. And he did come from a good program that eventually produced Aaron Rodgers.

BigCatDaddy
12-15-2011, 03:04 PM
Hindsight is always 50/50. At the time he came to KC he had never started more than 12 games in a single season and was actually out of football altogether in 1994.

FYP

Chocolate Hog
12-15-2011, 03:05 PM
Hindsight is always 20/20. At the time he came to KC he had never started more than 12 games in a single season and was actually out of football altogether in 1994.

So this is the newest trend on here is to say everything is hindsight is 20/20.

Reerun_KC
12-15-2011, 03:06 PM
Hindsight is always 20/20. At the time he came to KC he had never started more than 12 games in a single season and was actually out of football altogether in 1994.
He was a journeyman with a very shallow resume when he got to KC...

Chucky took his weak ass arm and rode it to the superbowl...

loochy
12-15-2011, 03:10 PM
So this is the newest trend on here is to say everything is hindsight is 20/20.

No, 50/50. GOD GET IT RIGHT!

Bane
12-15-2011, 03:15 PM
"Trust me Baltimore I KNOW QUARTER BACKS"


Nuff said.

Royal Fanatic
12-15-2011, 03:18 PM
Hindsight is always 20/20. At the time he came to KC he had never started more than 12 games in a single season and was actually out of football altogether in 1994.
It didn't take any hindsight to see that the Chiefs were the hottest team in football at the end of the 1997 season, and that Gannon was the guy leading the way. They won Gannon's last 3 starts by scores of 44-9 over a 49er team that was 11-1 going into the game, 30-0 over the Raiders, and 29-7 over the Chargers. That team may have been the best team in Chiefs history, but then Schottenheimer decided that he had to give Grbac his starting job back in the last game of the year because his policy was that no starter would lose his job because of an injury.

The Chiefs were rolling into the playoffs, and Schottenheimer decided to change quarterbacks.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. The Chiefs lost a close game to the Broncos, the Broncos won the Super Bowl, and Gannon wound up leaving for the Raiders and taking them to the Super Bowl.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. You don't fuck up a winning combination because you have a stupid policy that says no player loses his starting job because he was injured. If Bill Belichik had that policy, he would have put Tom Brady back on the bench when Drew Bledsoe returned from his injury, and the history of the New England Patriots would have been entirely different.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. Rich Gannon was obviously no Tom Brady, but he was the best chance the Chiefs had to win the 1997 Super Bowl. It didn't take hindsight to see that. It took sight.

DaWolf
12-15-2011, 03:20 PM
He was a journeyman with a very shallow resume when he got to KC...

Chucky took his weak ass arm and rode it to the superbowl...

Chucky built (or at least with the case of Tampa, enhanced) Super Bowl teams with Gannon and Brad Johnson. I have no idea how he got himself fired after accomplishing that...

Guru
12-15-2011, 03:21 PM
no

Guru
12-15-2011, 03:22 PM
Chucky built Super Bowl teams with Gannon and Brad Johnson. I have no idea how he got himself fired after accomplishing that...

chucky didn't build a superbowl team in Tampa. He inherited one.

Reerun_KC
12-15-2011, 03:23 PM
chucky didn't build a superbowl team in Tampa. He inherited one.

IF he can take Gannon and Johnson to superbowls, he could make a QB out of Cassel.

I would take Chucky as the HC in a heart beat here.

Rams Fan
12-15-2011, 03:25 PM
IF he can take Gannon and Johnson to superbowls, he could make a QB out of Cassel.

I would take Chucky as the HC in a heart beat here.

Huh? Callahan was the coach for the Raiders in '02.

DaWolf
12-15-2011, 03:26 PM
chucky didn't build a superbowl team in Tampa. He inherited one.

Yeah, I edited that part realizing he didn't technically "build" it. But then again, if you look at the Marty-esque way that team played during the Dungy era, Dungy was never going to win a Super Bowl with that team.

It would have been like Marty getting canned prior to the 1997 season in favor of, say, Shanarat, and Shanarat riding that team to the Super Bowl by tweaking the offense and coaching differently than Marty did...

ChiefsCountry
12-15-2011, 03:27 PM
It didn't take any hindsight to see that the Chiefs were the hottest team in football at the end of the 1997 season, and that Gannon was the guy leading the way. They won Gannon's last 3 starts by scores of 44-9 over a 49er team that was 11-1 going into the game, 30-0 over the Raiders, and 29-7 over the Chargers. That team may have been the best team in Chiefs history, but then Schottenheimer decided that he had to give Grbac his starting job back in the last game of the year because his policy was that no starter would lose his job because of an injury.

The Chiefs were rolling into the playoffs, and Schottenheimer decided to change quarterbacks.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. The Chiefs lost a close game to the Broncos, the Broncos won the Super Bowl, and Gannon wound up leaving for the Raiders and taking them to the Super Bowl.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. You don't **** up a winning combination because you have a stupid policy that says no player loses his starting job because he was injured. If Bill Belichik had that policy, he would have put Tom Brady back on the bench when Drew Bledsoe returned from his injury, and the history of the New England Patriots would have been entirely different.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. Rich Gannon was obviously no Tom Brady, but he was the best chance the Chiefs had to win the 1997 Super Bowl. It didn't take hindsight to see that. It took sight.

Stoyonaovich missing a field goal in that game was way more important. That's what lost us the game, not Grbac.

WhiteWhale
12-15-2011, 03:28 PM
Chucky built (or at least with the case of Tampa, enhanced) Super Bowl teams with Gannon and Brad Johnson. I have no idea how he got himself fired after accomplishing that...
Probably because those teams collapsed into shit with this 'quick fix' approach to team-building.

durtyrute
12-15-2011, 03:28 PM
It didn't take any hindsight to see that the Chiefs were the hottest team in football at the end of the 1997 season, and that Gannon was the guy leading the way. They won Gannon's last 3 starts by scores of 44-9 over a 49er team that was 11-1 going into the game, 30-0 over the Raiders, and 29-7 over the Chargers. That team may have been the best team in Chiefs history, but then Schottenheimer decided that he had to give Grbac his starting job back in the last game of the year because his policy was that no starter would lose his job because of an injury.

The Chiefs were rolling into the playoffs, and Schottenheimer decided to change quarterbacks.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. The Chiefs lost a close game to the Broncos, the Broncos won the Super Bowl, and Gannon wound up leaving for the Raiders and taking them to the Super Bowl.


Worst decision in Chiefs history. You don't fuck up a winning combination because you have a stupid policy that says no player loses his starting job because he was injured. If Bill Belichik had that policy, he would have put Tom Brady back on the bench when Drew Bledsoe returned from his injury, and the history of the New England Patriots would have been entirely different.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. Rich Gannon was obviously no Tom Brady, but he was the best chance the Chiefs had to win the 1997 Super Bowl. It didn't take hindsight to see that. It took sight.

So what you are saying is that that was the worst decision in Chiefs history.

Got it

DaWolf
12-15-2011, 03:35 PM
Stoyonaovich missing a field goal in that game was way more important. That's what lost us the game, not Grbac.

The fake punt, the phantom call on Gonzo, Ted Popson not going out of bounds, etc. But it is pretty evident now that the team had a sort of chemistry going with Gannon that they didn't find with Grbac back in there. Grbac was also rusty, having come off the shoulder thing, and that probably affected the offense too.

Of course there's no guarantee that Gannon wins that game either. It took a miracle finish in the regular season game at Arrowhead for him to beat the Donx (Marcus Allen made a great catch and run, and Pressure Pete hit that long field goal...

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 03:36 PM
So this is the newest trend on here is to say everything is hindsight is 20/20.

No, the newest trend (as you can see from the responses) is to say hindsight is 50/50. Mix metaphors and hilarity ensues! :D

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 03:43 PM
They won Gannon's last 3 starts by scores of 44-9 over a 49er team that was 11-1 going into the game, 30-0 over the Raiders, and 29-7 over the Chargers. That team may have been the best team in Chiefs history, but then Schottenheimer decided that he had to give Grbac his starting job back in the last game of the year because his policy was that no starter would lose his job because of an injury.

San Francisco gave up 5 sacks, a safety and had 3 fumbles and 2 INTs, one of which was returned for a TD. The Chiefs ran the ball 42 times.

The Raiders lost a fumble and gave up 6 sacks and the Chiefs ran the ball 48 times. The Raiders only ran THIRTY THREE plays on offense.

San Diego had 5 fumbles (1 lost), gave up SEVEN sacks, and Mighty Mouse had an 87-yard INT return for a TD.

Selective memory.

ChiefsNow
12-15-2011, 04:53 PM
Jimmy Johnson and one of his blockbuster trades.

Claynus
12-15-2011, 05:15 PM
The fake punt, the phantom call on Gonzo, Ted Popson not going out of bounds, etc. But it is pretty evident now that the team had a sort of chemistry going with Gannon that they didn't find with Grbac back in there.

Gannon was always overrated by Chiefs fans.

He had TWO games over 186 yards passing that 1997 season and the Chiefs lost one of them 24-10. Hell, in one of the key games that year, a win over Denver, he had 98 yards passing.

The next season he started 10 games and the Chiefs scored 17 or fewer points in 4 of them. They were 5-5 in those games.

Gannon was nothing special in KC.

Brock
12-15-2011, 05:43 PM
Worst decision in Chiefs history. Passing on Dan Marino and Jim Kelly.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. Passing on Dan Marino and Jim Kelly.

Worst decision in Chiefs history. Passing on Dan Marino and Jim Kelly.

fixed.

milkman
12-16-2011, 08:56 PM
When you are supposed to be an offensive genious with one of the best offenses in history in the Vikings, then you go how ever many quarters they went through without an offensive score, what's the point?

Won't have the drive to get the job done.

There is no such thing as an offensive (or defensive) genius.

It's the talent on the field.

A poor coach can underachieve with a talented group, but a great coach is only as good as the talent he has to work with.

Bill Bellichick has always been a "defensive genius".

How's that Patriot defense today?

Al Saunders and the 'Skins really worked out well, huh?

crazycoffey
12-16-2011, 09:28 PM
Don't you get it? If something has never happened before, it can never happen in the future. It's science.

Well if that's true, then the Chiefs will never draft and develop a good QB of their own....

milkman
12-16-2011, 09:34 PM
Well if that's true, then the Chiefs will never draft and develop a good QB of their own....

We are so screwed.

Bane
12-16-2011, 09:41 PM
"Trust me Baltimore,I KNOW QUARTERBACKS".


All I need to hear.

JoeyChuckles
12-16-2011, 09:51 PM
Not saying that it won't happen. Just that it will be extremely rare when it does happen.

And hitting 40 home runs in a season was rare until it happened.

Nightfyre
12-16-2011, 10:04 PM
And hitting 40 home runs in a season was rare until it happened.

Are there steroids for coaching? I don't buy the whole "avoiding superbowl winning coaches because they won a superbowl" arrangement, but this analogy, (like most analogies) is retarded.

Frankie
12-16-2011, 10:17 PM
I don't buy the whole "avoiding superbowl winning coaches because they won a superbowl" ...

I buy it. Not for any logical football reason though, but for an emotional one. in the back of my mind, if we EVER win another Super Bowl, I would want it to be purely a Chiefs Championship (like the first one), coach and all, not because we were led to it by some SB coach from another team.

That said, winning it, even with another team's HC is better than never winning it. Just less luster.

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-16-2011, 10:19 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/mh-miami-dolphins-coach-brian-billick-20111215,0,5685540.story

Looks like he wants the fins job.

Nightfyre
12-16-2011, 10:26 PM
Would you like as the next HC of the Chiefs? What happened to this guy? Why cant he get any traction as a HC prospect anymore?

80-62 regular season record

5-3 in the playoffs

Won a Super Bowl


Thoughts?
Assessing Billick against my criteria as outlined in this post:

The poll fails to capture what I want in a coach.
Criteria #1 Coach needs to have an offensive coordinator/QB coach who can identify elite QB talent at the collegiate level and develop it at the pro level.
Criteria #2 Coach needs to have an aggressive mentality with respect to both defense, offense and game management. I want to see blitzes. I want to see fakes on special teams. I want to see down-field passes.
Criteria #3 Coach needs to be a strong leader and motivator. By this I mean his players need to trust him but not necessarily like him. He needs to demand and get maximum production out of his players.
Criteria #4 Coach needs to be able to delegate to and trust his assistants and coordinators.


Edit: As part of #4, the Coach should be providing purpose, direction and motivation to his team. He needs to accomplish this through strong oversight and through his coordinators. His assistants and coordinators need to accomplish the gameplanning and enforcement of fundamentals. The Head Coach should sign off on these and develop an over-arcing plan for the other coaches to implement.
Much beyond this, I couldn't give a ****.

#1 I would believe that Billick knows a thing or two about QBs. During his tenure both with Minnesota and with Baltimore he has brought some veterans in and maximized their performance. Dante Culpepper was drafted the year after Billick left Minnesota, but you have to wonder if he had any input on him. Kyle Boller was drafted during his tenure at the Ravens, but that was obviously a bust. Overall I'm not willing to make a call on this.

#2 Billick's offense in Minnesota was very aggressive, iirc. His defense in Baltimore was very aggressive. He likes big armed QBs who can push the ball down-field. He fits this criteria.

#3 There can be no doubt about his motivational skills. He had some of the most amped up players in the league during his tenure. I also can't find examples of him throwing players under the bus, which is another good characteristic. I will make the call that he fits this criteria.

#4 I think Billick has already proven he can effectively run an NFL team. He fits this criteria.

So in review of another quote:


Q: Could you go into some background on why you decided to draft Kyle Boller when you did? Did you expect him to come in and start right away?

BB: We felt we had a mandate to address the quarterback position. It had not been adequately addressed here since the franchise's inception in 1996. There was an opportunity given in that draft and where we were going to likely draft and the quarterbacks available, that we would be in the position to do so. So we did, like everybody, you do an exhaustive study of what is out there and you rank them. [Carson] Palmer, [Byron] Leftwich and Boller—we had them all very highly ranked and very closely ranked. Phil Savage does a phenomenal job for us orchestrating that end of it, with obviously Ozzie Newsome overlooking it. We had a special task force, so to speak, or a special evaluation group looking at the quarterbacks and really felt that Kyle Boller had everything it took to be successful in this league. When the draft turned kind of odd on us and presented us with Terrell Suggs, which was a gift from above to be sitting there at [draft selection] 10 and get a Terrell Suggs, we had had a plan to put into orchestration and were able to work it out with New England to move back to that 19 spot to pick up Kyle Boller, and we are glad we did.

Q: Was there any particular game where you looked at Boller and thought to yourself that he could be the guy going forward?

BB: That was our excitement with Kyle when I started him as a rookie at Pittsburgh on the road. From that moment on, our commitment was, 'We think this is going to be the guy'. This young man is 12-6 now and has been through his first year. That was the challenge going into the first half of this year, to round out his first year experience [since] he only played eight or nine games last year, to see if we could survive the first half of the season. Now those lessons begin to pay off as we go into the second half of the season and hopefully into the playoffs. What accelerated the growth was when you take away Pro Bowlers like Jonathan Ogden, Todd Heap and Jamal Lewis. Take away his starting center. Take away his leading receiver from last year, Travis Taylor, in the first half of the season and say, 'Go get 'em, son'. That has something to do with the numbers that you all like to look so much at, but doesn't tell the full story. We have had a great deal of confidence in Kyle. If numbers begin to match up and you all get to see that, that is great.

I think Billick values QB appropriately at any rate. He was willing to take a chance on any of those three guys in the first quote. He also values a quality pass-rush as well, evidently. Good characteristics, imo. I would be happy with a Billick hire, with all of this said.

jlscorpio
12-16-2011, 11:05 PM
I think Billick is likely our most realistic choice for a guy w/a Super Bowl on his resume. Plus it's always cracked me up how he puts the word "A" in front of every person's name. On a side note, this thread is depressing as fuck. How I long for the days when we had to choose between a QB that was 5-1 vs a QB that was 7-2. We had a future HoFer at TE and his backup was Popson. I always like Popson, maybe it was the fact that a TE wore a Bruce Smith facemask. He just wouldn't run outta bounds...

RippedmyFlesh
12-16-2011, 11:35 PM
fixed.

Even O'Brien or Eason would have given us a couple of years.

Royal Fanatic
12-17-2011, 12:22 AM
So what you are saying is that that was the worst decision in Chiefs history.

Got it
Good.

BossChief
12-17-2011, 12:27 AM
Does Ray Lewis in his prime come with him?

crazycoffey
12-17-2011, 12:28 AM
Does Ray Lewis in his prime come with him?

possible next to the best thing in DJ? :shrug:

BossChief
12-17-2011, 12:32 AM
possible next to the best thing in DJ? :shrug:

And we already have a mix of Boller, Dilfer and Grbac in Matt Cassel.

Lets roll!

beach tribe
12-17-2011, 09:09 AM
He should give half his pay check to Randy Moss, and the other half to the 2000 Balt Defense.

milkman
12-17-2011, 09:31 AM
He should give half his pay check to Randy Moss, and the other half to the 2000 Balt Defense.

That Viking offense was prolific for the 4 years that Billick was the OC before the Vikings drafted Randy Moss.

In Baltimore, he had crap at QB, and at WR.

He worked a system that highlighted that team's strength, which was running the ball.

He adapted to the talent he was provided to work with by Ozzie Newsome.

He won a SB with Trent Dilfer at QB, for christ's sake.

The thing that separates him, and a guy like Jon Gruden, from the Marty's, Jeff Fichers and Bill Cowhers of the world is that ability to adapt, and the willingness to risk the huge mistake in the attempt to win.

beach tribe
12-17-2011, 09:45 AM
That Viking offense was prolific for the 4 years that Billick was the OC before the Vikings drafted Randy Moss.

In Baltimore, he had crap at QB, and at WR.

He worked a system that highlighted that team's strength, which was running the ball.

He adapted to the talent he was provided to work with by Ozzie Newsome.

He won a SB with Trent Dilfer at QB, for christ's sake.

The thing that separates him, and a guy like Jon Gruden, from the Marty's, Jeff Fichers and Bill Cowhers of the world is that ability to adapt, and the willingness to risk the huge mistake in the attempt to win.

I was just spouting out ignorance because I hated his Ravens teams.
You're post was killer convincing though. Very good points.
He did seem to be able to use his strengths, and mask his weaknesses.