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View Full Version : Chiefs Are you content with one more year of Cassel IF


petegz28
12-15-2011, 07:53 PM
we draft a QB? Or Orton if we re-sign him? Let the rookie have a year to learn and run Cassel\Orton back out there one more year?

Brock
12-15-2011, 07:54 PM
I have no problem with starting out with Cassel under that scenario.

threebag02
12-15-2011, 07:54 PM
**** NO. **** Cassel. I would rather pick up Donavan mcnabb and I can stand him either.

I'd go for Orton as the number one.

Munson
12-15-2011, 07:57 PM
I'm ok with it as long as we get Barkley or RGIII. Otherwise, I say F*CK YOU MATT CASSEL!

NJChiefsFan
12-15-2011, 07:57 PM
If there was some way for Pioli's life to literally be on the line if he didn't make the switch to the rookie at the right time than maybe. To me it only works with Orton because the team doesn't have emotional, or egotistical, ties to the QB.

If the team and new QB fairly thought the rookie wasn't ready I could be ok with it if I trusted them. If Cassel stays I know the rookie won't get a fair shot so my answer is no.

suzzer99
12-15-2011, 07:58 PM
Well there is that one crazy insane never-gonna-happen-in-a-million-years option where we start Stanzi for 3 games and have a much much much better idea of whether he looks like he could be a starting NFL QB someday.

But that's just crazy talk. Much better to go with Orton.

Okie_Apparition
12-15-2011, 08:00 PM
You can't cut the face of the franchise over the off season

petegz28
12-15-2011, 08:00 PM
I have no problem with starting out with Cassel under that scenario.

That's what I say. Run Cassel back out there and once things start to look like shit then toss in the rookie.

Kyle DeLexus
12-15-2011, 08:08 PM
I want the franchise to cut ties with Cassel. I could deal with Orton as the starter if a QBotF was drafted and they felt he needed a year to be brought up to speed, but I doubt Orton would sign if that was the case. Plus I'd rather have a team like Washington or Miami take a chance on Orton as the starting QB and not draft one.

petegz28
12-15-2011, 08:12 PM
I want the franchise to cut ties with Cassel. I could deal with Orton as the starter if a QBotF was drafted and they felt he needed a year to be brought up to speed, but I doubt Orton would sign if that was the case. Plus I'd rather have a team like Washington or Miami take a chance on Orton as the starting QB and not draft one.

I doubt we are going to see Orton next year. If we can get a pick out of him then I think Pioli is going to go that route. And considering we are most likely going to have to trade up to get a QB, Pioli will load up as many picks as he can for trade purposes.

Count Zarth
12-15-2011, 08:13 PM
I would hope Cassel could stick around to be the backup.

That way we could still laugh at him.

ChiefsCountry
12-15-2011, 08:13 PM
Cut Cassel's worthless ass. Re-sign Orton or sign Shaun Hill.

durtyrute
12-15-2011, 08:13 PM
Orton or Cassel: Orton

Stanzi or a combination of Orton and Cassel to make an even suckier qb: Stanzi

Cassel on the bench or Cassel on a different team: When's the next bus?

threebag02
12-15-2011, 08:14 PM
I would rather have EVERY thread started by peteZ28 than have Cassel anywhere in the midwest.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 08:15 PM
If we need a 1-year stop gap, keep Orton.

I believe Cassel is due another bonus in March, it doesn't make any sense to keep him unless you plan on letting him play out his contract.

TrebMaxx
12-15-2011, 08:16 PM
No more Cassel, please.

petegz28
12-15-2011, 08:17 PM
If we need a 1-year stop gap, keep Orton.

I believe Cassel is due another bonus in March, it doesn't make any sense to keep him unless you plan on letting him play out his contract.

This is true. I just think Piloi is going to try to be BB 2.0 and rack up as many draft picks as he can and therefore will not re-sign Orton. Trutfully I would rather have Orton instead of Cassel.

O.city
12-15-2011, 08:25 PM
If I'm trading up to draft a guy in the top say 5 to play quarterback, I'd like him to start day 1.

Especially if we were to draft Barkley or Luck. They both are pro ready.

petegz28
12-15-2011, 08:27 PM
If I'm trading up to draft a guy in the top say 5 to play quarterback, I'd like him to start day 1.

Especially if we were to draft Barkley or Luck. They both are pro ready.

Luck yes. Barkely...maybe. RGIII possibly. I think you would have to see how they look in camp. Don't forget Rodgers rode the pine a few years before he ever saw the field. Now, we don't have Favre but you never know...we might!

O.city
12-15-2011, 08:28 PM
Luck yes. Barkely...maybe. RGIII possibly. I think you would have to see how they look in camp. Don't forget Rodgers rode the pine a few years before he ever saw the field. Now, we don't have Favre but you never know...we might!

Yeah Rodgers did ride the bench. He also needed some tweeking to his throwing motion coming in.

Luck and Barkley both come from a pro system and should be ready. RgIII I doubt would be ready day 1 but he very well could be. I'd be willing to let him learn on the job.

O.city
12-15-2011, 08:31 PM
I know people might not be big on it, but if we are to have to trade up I'd go all the way up. If Luck really is that much better go get the guy and set yourself up. Get a face for the franchise.

pr_capone
12-15-2011, 08:32 PM
If we need a 1-year stop gap, keep Orton.

I believe Cassel is due another bonus in March, it doesn't make any sense to keep him unless you plan on letting him play out his contract.

Absolutely this.

Kasl needs to be run out of town on a rail.

petegz28
12-15-2011, 08:32 PM
Yeah Rodgers did ride the bench. He also needed some tweeking to his throwing motion coming in.

Luck and Barkley both come from a pro system and should be ready. RgIII I doubt would be ready day 1 but he very well could be. I'd be willing to let him learn on the job.

I just don't want to make the same mistake Jax did with Gabbert. Gabbert had no business starting this year. For that matter Gabbert had no business being drafted as high as he was. And that is coming from a die-hard MU fan.

O.city
12-15-2011, 08:33 PM
Gabbert came out in a weak qb class. If he were coming out this year he would likely be the 4 or 5 qb taken.

petegz28
12-15-2011, 08:33 PM
I know people might not be big on it, but if we are to have to trade up I'd go all the way up. If Luck really is that much better go get the guy and set yourself up. Get a face for the franchise.

I could live with giving away our 1st round picks for the next few years for Luck. I am not ready to pull a Ditka but I could give up a lot of our picks this year and some picks next year to Indy if we can pull it off. I might even throw Dwayne Bowe in there somewhere if we had too.

jd1020
12-15-2011, 08:34 PM
I'll be fine with Cassel under center to start the season if it's known that his job isn't safe. If he's simply handed the reins and he doesn't have to look over his shoulder then Pioli's going to have problems.

Stanzi will have had a full season of tutoring, a full off season of work, and another preseason.

Give Cassel a handful of games to show the new coach that he's the guy. If the coach doesn't see progress then pull him for the season and make him backup.

In the 2013 off season, cut Cassel and bring in a veteran backup thats willing to work with Stanzi and whoever else was drafted.

Marcellus
12-15-2011, 08:35 PM
The answer is no. The nightmare neads to end. Why have another year of every Sunday there being a start XXXX at QB next week thread.

DaWolf
12-15-2011, 08:35 PM
Depends. Is Barry Richardson still starting for us under that scenario? If so, then yeah, because I'd rather Matt get killed than the rookie...

Baconeater
12-15-2011, 08:36 PM
Fuck no, he needs to go. 2 1/2 seasons of him was more than enough

petegz28
12-15-2011, 08:36 PM
Depends. Is Barry Richardson still starting for us under that scenario? If so, then yeah, because I'd rather Matt get killed than the rookie...

If Barry Richardson is starting for us next year Pioli should be lynched in the parking lot.

O.city
12-15-2011, 08:38 PM
I could live with giving away our 1st round picks for the next few years for Luck. I am not ready to pull a Ditka but I could give up a lot of our picks this year and some picks next year to Indy if we can pull it off. I might even throw Dwayne Bowe in there somewhere if we had too.

If I had to I'd give up Bowe. I think the Colts could jsut take Blackmon if he were there or one of the other wrs that would come at a lower price with the draft picks.


I'd give up the next couple years 1 and 2 if that would work. I wouldn't go full Ditka but I'd definately see what it would take to get the guy.

Guru
12-15-2011, 08:38 PM
The Chiefs damn well better draft one of the 1st round QBs in the draft for me to tolerate Cassel for one more year. Personally, I would rather just have Orton for that year and cut Cassel.

Sure-Oz
12-15-2011, 08:39 PM
If we draft a 1st rounder such as Barkley or RG III i dont mind cassel out there

threebag02
12-15-2011, 08:40 PM
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTl4g47m7zlDdjrBs9sGgr3a1KYtAgkdVN7UNJt8svAdgOrTXen5A

He shouldn't have to wait that long.

O.city
12-15-2011, 08:41 PM
Could it be possible that the Colts become infatuated with RGIII and Luck fell and the Chiefs could grab him.




doubtful

crossbow
12-15-2011, 08:41 PM
It depends on if they improve the line to protect him. Wouldn't want to ruin him his first year.

threebag02
12-15-2011, 08:44 PM
It depends on if they improve the line to protect him. Wouldn't want to ruin him his first year.

Like we did Cassel his first year as a starter./sensiblechiefsfan

lewdog
12-15-2011, 08:46 PM
Cassel can stay on the team........as a waterboy.

FAX
12-15-2011, 09:19 PM
Cut Cassel. Cut him bad.

Simply from a PR perspective, running his ass out of town would benefit the franchise, uplift spirits, and increase ticket sales.

But cutting him with red-hot, flaming, aids knives would be much more satisfying.

FAX

BigMeatballDave
12-15-2011, 09:21 PM
No

DuhChiefs
12-15-2011, 09:22 PM
I think everyone forgets about Stanzi...
Cassel sucks, Orton sucks, they all fxcking suck....
Get a rookie and have Stanzi and him battle it out...
Keep either Cassel or Orton and if they really prove their place then give them a chance...

SNR
12-15-2011, 09:24 PM
Why do all pete threads ask questions like, "Would you be okay with getting kicked in the nuts as long as the person gave you $20 afterward?"

BigMeatballDave
12-15-2011, 09:27 PM
Why do all pete threads ask questions like, "Would you be okay with getting kicked in the nuts as long as the person gave you $20 afterward?"

FUCK YOU, I WANT $25

KCChiefsFan88
12-15-2011, 09:31 PM
we draft a QB? Or Orton if we re-sign him? Let the rookie have a year to learn and run Cassel\Orton back out there one more year?

No No, and No.

I fell for the Cassel mirage when he was in New England. I bought into his solid year filling in for Brady, thinking that would project to him being a quality starting QB in KC.

I was wrong. Pioli was wrong.

Time to end the Cassel fiasco.

Draft a QB in round 1 and go with Orton or another veteran as the back-up, and stop-gap if necessary.

FAX
12-15-2011, 09:33 PM
No No, and No.

I fell for the Cassel mirage when he was in New England. I bought into his solid year filling in for Brady, thinking that would project to him being a quality starting QB in KC.

I was wrong. Pioli was wrong.

Time to end the Cassel fiasco.

Draft a QB in round 1 and go with Orton or another veteran as the back-up, and stop-gap if necessary.

As much as I despise Orton, this is a preferable scenario.

Of course, chopping Cassel into little pieces and drop-shipping his remains to Nicaragua is also pretty good.

FAX

DuhChiefs
12-15-2011, 09:36 PM
Start Urban at qb!
lol

BossChief
12-15-2011, 09:44 PM
1) Cut Cassel

2) Profit

Phobia
12-15-2011, 09:47 PM
I would hope Cassel could stick around to be the backup.

That way we could still laugh at him.

Or better yet, we could laugh at fans who suggest carrying a $10,000,000 backup QB.

whoman69
12-15-2011, 09:54 PM
No. Sooner or later Pioli will get the itch to try Cassel again if the rookie hits a bump. WTF does any QB have to learn from Cassel?

Orton doesn't come with that baggage for us.

BossChief
12-15-2011, 09:58 PM
Or better yet, we could laugh at fans who suggest carrying a $10,000,000 backup QB.

he is due 5.25 next year...7 the following and 9 in 2014.

Thats 20-22 million (once you add up the change) and I bet we could sign Orton to something like 3 years/16 million MAX and he would be happy to take that offer.

Not saying we should keep him, we shouldnt...just throwing those salary figures out there.

All contracts can be looked up on www.Rotoworld.com

He has no bonuses left, either.

crazycoffey
12-15-2011, 09:59 PM
I'd laugh at the implosion on this board if
A/ cassel stays
and
B/ the chiefs won the superbowl with him at the helm

ROFL

fuck my life.... :facepalm:

BossChief
12-15-2011, 10:01 PM
No. Sooner or later Pioli will get the itch to try Cassel again if the rookie hits a bump. WTF does any QB have to learn from Cassel?

Orton doesn't come with that baggage for us.

Again, Im not saying we should keep the guy...but I do think he knows a lot more than he does.

If that makes any sense.

He could probably teach someone what he knows and they would automatically be better for it.

Phobia
12-15-2011, 10:02 PM
he is due 5.25 next year...7 the following and 9 in 2014.

I don't care what salary numbers are. You have to account for his signing bonus and spread that out too. He's a $10 Mill-a-year QB.

suds79
12-15-2011, 10:04 PM
I just don't see the point in playing Cassel any longer.

If we were to draft a top rated QB, play him from the beginning. There's never been an easier time to play QB in the NFL. Might as well take the kid gloves off.

htismaqe
12-15-2011, 10:05 PM
I don't care what salary numbers are. You have to account for his signing bonus and spread that out too. He's a $10 Mill-a-year QB.

He got a roster bonus too.

If we need a stopgap, Orton has 1 year left at like 2.5M.

Brock
12-15-2011, 10:10 PM
He got a roster bonus too.

If we need a stopgap, Orton has 1 year left at like 2.5M.

I don't think that's right.

OnTheWarpath58
12-15-2011, 10:11 PM
I don't think that's right.

It's not. Orton will be a FA after this season.

Kyle DeLexus
12-15-2011, 10:12 PM
He got a roster bonus too.

If we need a stopgap, Orton has 1 year left at like 2.5M.

Everything I've seen has said Orton will be a FA after this season.

Mr. Kotter
12-15-2011, 10:18 PM
ONE more year? Yeah....sure. I guess. :shrug:

SNR
12-15-2011, 10:20 PM
I'd laugh at the implosion on this board if
A/ cassel stays
and
B/ the chiefs won the superbowl with him at the helm

ROFL

fuck my life.... :facepalm:Yeah Chiefs Planet would really implode if we won the Super Bowl with Cassel :spock:

NJChiefsFan
12-15-2011, 10:32 PM
Yeah Chiefs Planet would really implode if we won the Super Bowl with Cassel :spock:

Yeah I would happily eat that crow. Thats not going to happen though, and I sure as hell don't want to let him try.

Epic Fail 007
12-15-2011, 10:41 PM
Look at it this way Cassel and chiefs qbs of past hes better than grbac,bono all the bums of the 80s,except deberg/but yes im sick of cassel

ChiefsNow
12-15-2011, 10:42 PM
We need to start saying nice things about Cassel and Orton. They are both great QBs. I hope we keep them both.














think trade value

NJChiefsFan
12-15-2011, 10:42 PM
Look at it this way Cassel and chiefs qbs of past hes better than grbac,bono all the bums of the 80s,except deberg/but yes im sick of cassel

Looking at it that way is how you end up with crap QBs in the first place. Its how some fans will justify Orton. "Well he is better than Cassel." Good luck building a good team when your arguement for why a guy is worthy is because he doesn't suck as much as the last guy.

Caseyguyrr
12-15-2011, 10:43 PM
as long as we have a plan that doesnt include cassel as a permanent franchise building solution, im ok with it,

but dont get me wrong, i still hate his guts

BossChief
12-15-2011, 10:50 PM
I don't care what salary numbers are. You have to account for his signing bonus and spread that out too. He's a $10 Mill-a-year QB.

You said it would be foolish to keep a backup on at 10mill/yr.

I was simply pointing out that he is due half that next year.

His signing bonus is a sunk cost, it doesn't figure into anything anymore.

To me, I dont care if he was willing to restructure his deal to make it in line with backup pay, the guy should be cut and the franchise rid of him.

Fuck the money....cut him and give it to Bowe, Carr and Orton.

Demonpenz
12-15-2011, 10:52 PM
I don't know man...can't we just get some fucking barbeque?

crazycoffey
12-15-2011, 11:17 PM
Yeah Chiefs Planet would really implode if we won the Super Bowl with Cassel :spock:

Every game that season would be filled with Threads of hilarity, say you don't believe that.

Phobia
12-15-2011, 11:24 PM
You said it would be foolish to keep a backup on at 10mill/yr.

I was simply pointing out that he is due half that next year.

His signing bonus is a sunk cost, it doesn't figure into anything anymore.
I suppose you can move the numbers around however you like. Truth is that Cassel is/was compensated in the neighborhood of $10Mill per when you take in to account all moneys paid to date. Base salary is one component of their compensation and in big money contracts it's usually a fairly small percentage until you reach later years of the contract.

BossChief
12-15-2011, 11:24 PM
I do not like the Cassel plan

I do not like it in a bush
I do not like it even while burning kush
I do not like it on monday night
I do not like it before a fight
I do not like it with a mouse
I do not like it playing in my house
I do not like him under center
Id like to tell him "get bent, sir"

fuck Matt Cassel.

BossChief
12-15-2011, 11:29 PM
I suppose you can move the numbers around however you like. Truth is that Cassel is/was compensated in the neighborhood of $10Mill per when you take in to account all moneys paid to date. Base salary is one component of their compensation and in big money contracts it's usually a fairly small percentage until you reach later years of the contract.

Truth is...Clark Hunt has already paid over 40 million to Matt Cassel in 3 years and I don't see a scenario where Pioli cant sell him into giving him another 5 before totally giving up on him.

Sucks, but likely true unless some team is willing to give Pioli a get out of jail free card and trades for him.

Id let him go for a 20oz of sundrop soda and a bag of stale chips that Id give to a bum afterwards.

Epic Fail 007
12-15-2011, 11:39 PM
Looking at it that way is how you end up with crap QBs in the first place. Its how some fans will justify Orton. "Well he is better than Cassel." Good luck building a good team when your arguement for why a guy is worthy is because he doesn't suck as much as the last guy.

lol i never said he was worthy

crazycoffey
12-15-2011, 11:44 PM
We need to start saying nice things about Cassel and Orton. They are both great QBs. I hope we keep them both.














think trade value

I like the way you think

Phobia
12-15-2011, 11:47 PM
"think trade value"

Indeed. That would be one way Goodell could guarantee the health of NFL quarterbacks in 2012... just let the Chiefs stockpile tradeable quarterbacks for trade.

NJChiefsFan
12-15-2011, 11:50 PM
lol i never said he was worthy

I know.

BoneKrusher
12-16-2011, 06:33 AM
**** NO. **** Cassel. I would rather pick up Donavan mcnabb and I can stand him either.

I'd go for Orton as the number one.

if Orton brings a passing attack over the next three games... Yes.

fuck Cassel.

bevischief
12-16-2011, 06:37 AM
**** NO. **** Cassel. I would rather pick up Donavan mcnabb and I can stand him either.

I'd go for Orton as the number one.

Have you watched any Viking games this year? Hell no.

bevischief
12-16-2011, 06:38 AM
You can't cut the face of the franchise over the off season

yes they can.

bevischief
12-16-2011, 06:46 AM
He got a roster bonus too.

If we need a stopgap, Orton has 1 year left at like 2.5M.

That is this season he is a free agent after the season.

Bwana
12-16-2011, 07:01 AM
The problem is, with the GM we have is, I wouldn't be surprised in the least, if we didn't draft a QB. He may very well think Butternuts Cassel, just needs one more year, to become the next Tom Brady.

BoneKrusher
12-16-2011, 07:05 AM
The problem is, with the GM we have, I wouldn't be surprised in the least, if we didn't draft a QB. He may very well think, numbnuts, just needs one more year, to become the next Tom Brady.

you may be right about that.
if so, the sooner Pioli faces the fact Cassel was a mistake the sooner this Franchise gets on the right track.

cant compete in today's NFL w/o a QB.

KCBOSS1
12-16-2011, 07:16 AM
I said on here from the time we signed him that he seemed like another Grbac to me. I wasn't even close. He's much worse. Grbac would at least throw for 300 yards occasionally. Grbac looked amazing in warm up....so does Cassel, but neither of these guys are winners. At the Denver game this year, watching Tebow and Cassel warm up, Cassel looked like a NFL quarterback and Tebow looked like a full back filling in until the game started..... There's just no way that I can believe that this guy can pull it off. I kept trying to believe in him, I wanted to believe in him, I like him, but we need to trade him and get something for him while he has any shred of positive reputation in the league.

KCBOSS1
12-16-2011, 07:19 AM
If Pioli signs McDaniel, then he's a total GM who wants to be head coach. I'm hoping he's smarter than that, but if He does, it will show his pride and he will keep trying to ride this dead horse for 2 more years. Sad

Chiefnj2
12-16-2011, 07:22 AM
Wouldn't matter to me one bit who the veteran place holder is if KC grabbed RGIII or even Barkley. Cassel, Orton, Palko, McNabb, Grossman - who cares, the rookie will be playing by the end of the year.

loochy
12-16-2011, 07:36 AM
When a question involves Cassel, the answer is always NO.

BoneKrusher
12-16-2011, 07:38 AM
Wouldn't matter to me one bit who the veteran place holder is if KC grabbed RGIII or even Barkley. Cassel, Orton, Palko, McNabb, Grossman - who cares, the rookie will be playing by the end of the year.

i'd be ok with Cassel staying on as the Water Boy.

okcchief
12-16-2011, 07:44 AM
Yes Orton
No Cassel

htismaqe
12-16-2011, 08:00 AM
It's not. Orton will be a FA after this season.

Well shit.

Looks like Cassel will be back then.

bevischief
12-16-2011, 08:03 AM
The problem is, with the GM we have is, I wouldn't be surprised in the least, if we didn't draft a QB. He may very well think Butternuts Cassel, just needs one more year, to become the next Tom Brady.

He is going to draft another lineman...

threebag02
12-16-2011, 08:03 AM
Have you watched any Viking games this year? Hell no.

Have you watched any Cassel this year?

bevischief
12-16-2011, 08:04 AM
When a question involves Cassel, the answer is always NO.

yep.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 08:35 AM
No, but **** no.

Start the damn rookie already. I think it's 30 years past do to start a rookie QB.

The sooner he hits the field the sooner we can move onward and upward.

BoneKrusher
12-16-2011, 08:38 AM
Have you watched any Cassel this year?

question of the week.
Rep

Dexter Manley
12-16-2011, 08:40 AM
... there is a serious young prospect at QB to start the season behind him...

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 08:45 AM
I'd be happy if we could trade Cassel for a 5th or 6th draft pick, (be lucky to get a 7). Draft a QB with our first AND draft a late rounder as well. Going into next season with Stanzi and two draft pick QBs. Making sure we start a young QB we drafted. We can have a true compitition for the covited spot, that's something we haven't ever had. Late round back up QB that has college experience > than Cassel on the team.

petegz28
12-16-2011, 08:55 AM
I'd be happy if we could trade Cassel for a 5th or 6th draft pick, (be lucky to get a 7). Draft a QB with our first AND draft a late rounder as well. Going into next season with Stanzi and two draft pick QBs. Making sure we start a young QB we drafted. We can have a true compitition for the covited spot, that's something we haven't ever had. Late round back up QB that has college experience > than Cassel on the team.

Disagree. Beit Cassel or Orton we have to have some experience on this QB corps. If the rookie starts you need a veteran backup. We got into the mess we are in now by not carrying anyone with any experience.

BigCatDaddy
12-16-2011, 08:55 AM
I think I'd rather see Stanzi get the start with a 1st round QB as his backup. Orton won't be back so that would just leave Cassell and that's unacceptable. If Stanzi plays well you have a good problem to have.

Coogs
12-16-2011, 08:55 AM
No, but **** no.

Start the damn rookie already. I think it's 30 years past do to start a rookie QB.

The sooner he hits the field the sooner we can move onward and upward.

:clap:

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 08:59 AM
Disagree. Beit Cassel or Orton we have to have some experience on this QB corps. If the rookie starts you need a veteran backup. We got into the mess we are in now by not carrying anyone with any experience.

There should be no temptation what so ever to play a vet QB that came from rejectville. Damn TRUE FANS :banghead:

Dayze
12-16-2011, 09:02 AM
no..well, sort of. If we draft a franchise QB / trade up to get him etc, then he needs to be out there day one.

He'll have a full off season program, OTA, mini-camp, training camp, and pre-season to prepare. If he's worthy of trading up to get him, or picking him high (depending on where we end up) then he's good enough to start out right out of the gate.

If he's not, then he wouldn't be worth trading up / picking high in the first place.
IMO

DJ's left nut
12-16-2011, 09:03 AM
If we drafted a QB, I could live with Orton for 1 more year.

I'm sorry, but there's nothing that's going to make Matt Cassel palatable for me next year. I've seen that movie and the ending sucks.

I don't want him back under any scenario. He's just not a quality NFL starter.

BigCatDaddy
12-16-2011, 09:08 AM
If we drafted a QB, I could live with Orton for 1 more year.

I'm sorry, but there's nothing that's going to make Matt Cassel palatable for me next year. I've seen that movie and the ending sucks.

I don't want him back under any scenario. He's just not a quality NFL starter.

I agree, but in that scenario why would Orton want to come back here? He's going to be looking for a place he is can be a starting QB for the next 5 years so I really don't think that's an option which is why I said Stanzi to start and a 1st round QB to back him up would be my choice.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 09:11 AM
That's why Stanzi should have been the starter after Cassel went down. To give him and this franchise a heads up in developing our own QBotf. It doesn't have to be Stanzi after we draft a QB in the first but give a young QB the experience for compitition edge to push the first rounder and not give him the job out right. Make both of them earn the job.

**** cASShole **** Orton if one of them just has to be on this team then make em third string. The young QBs need all the reps in practice they can get. Having those guys takes reps away, and that PISSES ME OFF!

Reerun_KC
12-16-2011, 09:13 AM
Nothing will make me want to keep Cassel or Orton...

DJ's left nut
12-16-2011, 09:14 AM
I agree, but in that scenario why would Orton want to come back here?

There may not be one; it's hard to say.

If he doesn't get a lot of interest on the open market as a long-term starter, he may look at this team with it's passing weapons (as well as a returning Charles) and decide that they provide a strong opportunity for him to sign a 1-yr 'make good' deal and re-build his value.

If Orton can put up a season like he had 2 years ago, his value on the open market will skyrocket. He may be fine with taking a lesser long-term deal with a team like Miami, or maybe he'd prefer take a short-term deal to try to get that 'franchise QB' contract from Washington or Seattle in 2 years.

There's really no way of knowing. If Orton won't come back, then my answer remains the same: No to Cassel. Start Stanzi at that point and keep Zorn around to teach the rookie.

I just don't want him here anymore. Not even as a backup. He's going to be a constant reminder and an overwhelming temptation for Pioli and Pioli's handpicked stooge. I want him completely excised from the organization.

Reerun_KC
12-16-2011, 09:15 AM
Why in Gods name would anyone want Orton?

That is the question that needs asked...

HemiEd
12-16-2011, 09:16 AM
we draft a QB? Or Orton if we re-sign him? Let the rookie have a year to learn and run Cassel\Orton back out there one more year?

It would be like getting your leg amputated with a butter knife, hopefully it will heal up and not hurt so bad.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 09:19 AM
There may not be one; it's hard to say.

If he doesn't get a lot of interest on the open market as a long-term starter, he may look at this team with it's passing weapons (as well as a returning Charles) and decide that they provide a strong opportunity for him to sign a 1-yr 'make good' deal and re-build his value.

If Orton can put up a season like he had 2 years ago, his value on the open market will skyrocket. He may be fine with taking a lesser long-term deal with a team like Miami, or maybe he'd prefer take a short-term deal to try to get that 'franchise QB' contract from Washington or Seattle in 2 years.

There's really no way of knowing. If Orton won't come back, then my answer remains the same: No to Cassel. Start Stanzi at that point and keep Zorn around to teach the rookie.

I just don't want him here anymore. Not even as a backup. He's going to be a constant reminder and an overwhelming temptation for Pioli and Pioli's handpicked stooge. I want him completely excised from the organization.

Orton can die in AIDS TREE

BigCatDaddy
12-16-2011, 09:19 AM
There may not be one; it's hard to say.

If he doesn't get a lot of interest on the open market as a long-term starter, he may look at this team with it's passing weapons (as well as a returning Charles) and decide that they provide a strong opportunity for him to sign a 1-yr 'make good' deal and re-build his value.

If Orton can put up a season like he had 2 years ago, his value on the open market will skyrocket. He may be fine with taking a lesser long-term deal with a team like Miami, or maybe he'd prefer take a short-term deal to try to get that 'franchise QB' contract from Washington or Seattle in 2 years.

There's really no way of knowing. If Orton won't come back, then my answer remains the same: No to Cassel. Start Stanzi at that point and keep Zorn around to teach the rookie.

I just don't want him here anymore. Not even as a backup. He's going to be a constant reminder and an overwhelming temptation for Pioli and Pioli's handpicked stooge. I want him completely excised from the organization.

That would be so sweet if Miami or the Washington gave him a nice deal and didn't take a round 1 QB this year. Washington is always looking for that quick fix especially given their recent struggles so I can see them possibly by passing a rookie QB for a vet.

DJ's left nut
12-16-2011, 09:21 AM
That's why Stanzi should have been the starter after Cassel went down. To give him and this franchise a heads up in developing our own QBotf. It doesn't have to be Stanzi after we draft a QB in the first but give a young QB the experience for compitition edge to push the first rounder and not give him the job out right. Make both of them earn the job.

**** cASShole **** Orton if one of them just has to be on this team then make em third string. The young QBs need all the reps in practice they can get. Having those guys takes reps away, and that PISSES ME OFF!

Okay - but remember that there's a Gabbert and Ponder for every Newton and Dalton.

There's a 50% chance that the rookie we draft (especially if its RGIII, Jones or Foles) simply isn't ready to play well next season. And the NFL has more successful QB stories that start with a rookie QB spending a year or so on the bench than it does with them emerging as immediate stars.

Recent history has more immediate success stories, I'll give you. That said, even a lot of those kids tend to backslide a bit before becoming legitimate NFL quarterbacks (for instance, Bradford and Stafford).

I'm not going to just say 'throw the kid to the wolves' before I know who we have and what he can do. Even Newton had to prove to the staff that he was capable of taking the reigns in practice. Do you really want to just jettison any thought of a veteran QB in favor of a rookie without knowing what you have in him?

Remember - the whole 'practice makes perfect' thing is wrong. Perfect practice makes perfect. Just sending a kid out there and having him take reps isn't always a good thing if he doesn't have a legit example to follow and if he isn't placed in a position to succeed. I want to know who we have, what's surrounding him and what he'll be asked to do before I just say "Fuck it - start the rook"....

And to argue otherwise is just stubborn adherence to a dogma.

DJ's left nut
12-16-2011, 09:22 AM
That would be so sweet if Miami or the Washington gave him a nice deal and didn't take a round 1 QB this year. Washington is always looking for that quick fix especially given their recent struggles so I can see them possibly by passing a rookie QB for a vet.

They won't this year, IMO. And that's why he may elect to come back to KC on a short-term deal.

Washington will definitely take a QB. Miami, oddly enough, may want to see another year of Moore. He's really played well for them.

Reerun_KC
12-16-2011, 09:25 AM
Orton can die in AIDS TREE

Thank you..

I am already sick of the Orton ball washing...

Chiefnj2
12-16-2011, 09:33 AM
I think it's funny that if KC actually had the balls to make a move for one of the top 3 QB's in this draft, people would still be bitching left and right about who the veteran QB is who is a mere placeholder for the rookie. Sometimes I think the fans of the franchise don't deserve a change.

DJ's left nut
12-16-2011, 09:33 AM
Thank you..

I am already sick of the Orton ball washing...

And I'm not impressed by the mindless dismissals of him.

The dude's a legitimate NFL quarterback. He's not a star, but he's an average NFL starting quarterback.

WTF is the problem with having him on a 1-yr deal while you develop a guy like RGIII or Foles?

Or would you prefer we do what the Jags have done to Gabbert? Even his most ardent supporters knew he was not NFL ready and would not be NFL ready for a season or even 2. Now the Jags may just ruin him altogether.

For people to just immediately say they don't want Orton here at all next year is just stupid. Orton's a playoff caliber quarterback. He's a guy that is absolutely serviceable to have around for a season while you find out what you have in Stanzi and/or your rookie QB.

That's hardly ball-washing, it's just a simple statement of fact.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 09:36 AM
Okay - but remember that there's a Gabbert and Ponder for every Newton and Dalton.

There's a 50% chance that the rookie we draft (especially if its RGIII, Jones or Foles) simply isn't ready to play well next season. And the NFL has more successful QB stories that start with a rookie QB spending a year or so on the bench than it does with them emerging as immediate stars.

Recent history has more immediate success stories, I'll give you. That said, even a lot of those kids tend to backslide a bit before becoming legitimate NFL quarterbacks (for instance, Bradford and Stafford).

I'm not going to just say 'throw the kid to the wolves' before I know who we have and what he can do. Even Newton had to prove to the staff that he was capable of taking the reigns in practice. Do you really want to just jettison any thought of a veteran QB in favor of a rookie without knowing what you have in him?

Remember - the whole 'practice makes perfect' thing is wrong. Perfect practice makes perfect. Just sending a kid out there and having him take reps isn't always a good thing if he doesn't have a legit example to follow and if he isn't placed in a position to succeed. I want to know who we have, what's surrounding him and what he'll be asked to do before I just say "**** it - start the rook"....

And to argue otherwise is just stubborn adherence to a dogma.

Your calling Orton a legit example ROFL

Ok what ever. Sorry just had to laugh.

The young rooks need to play to get experience. They will be rookies until they get full amount of playing time under ther belts. They need to grow with the team to help develop the team in the same proccess. Coaches can make adjustments and tweek the team for better success going forward. We saw Croyle fail after two years sitting on the bench. It does not matter, the sooner we find out what the make up of a guy can handle then the sooner the team and coaches figure out what needs to be done to win in this league.

We will be stuck the same as we are until this all takes place.

I can handle a struggling rookie QB making rookie mistakes for a year than I can watch a vet QB suck the air and life out of future Super Bowl contingency. 1993 Joe Freaking Montana won us our last play off game. I didn't want to trade for Joe Freaking Montana then, I was upset we didn't draft a QBotf. I am butthurt over this time frame of not drafting and starting a QB prospect that gives us a 50-50 or 20-20 chance of something greater than what we have accomplished.

trndobrd
12-16-2011, 09:37 AM
Given his situation at Denver, Orton is not going to be interested in starting the season knowing he will eventually get yanked as soon as the new kid looks ready to go. Cut him loose and get the draft pick.

No need to keep Cassell around to pick up a big paycheck. Send him on his way. BTW, don't expect any 'trade value'.

Hopefully, Stazi will show something in the next three games and the Chiefs will have good training camp competition between Stanzi and the 1st Round QB pick. The Chiefs can bring in some long-in-the-tooth veteran QB for cheap. Someone with no emotional ties or expectations of being 'the answer', to round out the group.

kc rush
12-16-2011, 09:38 AM
I don't want Cassel around. He'll play an ok game against a bad defense or two and management will feel justified in keeping him around longer.

If we weren't to start a rookie right away, I'd rather have an Orton type QB who can provide some leadership, show the rookie the ropes, win a few games, but is still disposable in the mind of management.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 09:44 AM
I think it's funny that if KC actually had the balls to make a move for one of the top 3 QB's in this draft, people would still be bitching left and right about who the veteran QB is who is a mere placeholder for the rookie. Sometimes I think the fans of the franchise don't deserve a change.

I agree, I've said many times already the Chiefs don't have the balls to play a rookie QB. That goes for the true fans too.

DJ's left nut
12-16-2011, 09:50 AM
And if you're making franchise-altering decisions with your balls, then you're pretty much an idiot.

There are legitimate reasons for not starting a rookie quarterback and all of those can be further explored and determined based on who we actually draft.

To sit here today and scream "START THE ROOKIE!!!" requires a mongoloid level of reasoning.

FringeNC
12-16-2011, 09:50 AM
Okay - but remember that there's a Gabbert and Ponder for every Newton and Dalton.



I don't think Ponder has been that bad. Yes, he has made rookie mistakes, but he moves the team pretty well. He's already a more polished QB than Matt Cassel. Cassel would have that many interceptions if we relied on him constantly to move the ball. Instead, we protect him like a prized rookie. It's a joke.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 09:59 AM
And if you're making franchise-altering decisions with your balls, then you're pretty much an idiot.

There are legitimate reasons for not starting a rookie quarterback and all of those can be further explored and determined based on who we actually draft.

To sit here today and scream "START THE ROOKIE!!!" requires a mongoloid level of reasoning.

Well, it may depend on who we get. I under stand how it works in the general mill department. Right now it's just a cop out because that is your belief & not that it is wrong in any way. It's just the Chiefs are the only NFL team not to start a rookie QB in 30 years or so. So the way we go about it hasn't worked, maybe it's time to try something a bit different.

alnorth
12-16-2011, 10:12 AM
Are you content with one more year of Cassel

Hell no.

IF we draft a QB?

Oh... hmmm. OK, but only if it is one of the big 3 with our 1st-rounder.

Or Orton if we re-sign him? Let the rookie have a year to learn and run Cassel\Orton back out there one more year?

No.

Reerun_KC
12-16-2011, 10:14 AM
And I'm not impressed by the mindless dismissals of him.

The dude's a legitimate NFL quarterback. He's not a star, but he's an average NFL starting quarterback.

WTF is the problem with having him on a 1-yr deal while you develop a guy like RGIII or Foles?

Or would you prefer we do what the Jags have done to Gabbert? Even his most ardent supporters knew he was not NFL ready and would not be NFL ready for a season or even 2. Now the Jags may just ruin him altogether.

For people to just immediately say they don't want Orton here at all next year is just stupid. Orton's a playoff caliber quarterback. He's a guy that is absolutely serviceable to have around for a season while you find out what you have in Stanzi and/or your rookie QB.

That's hardly ball-washing, it's just a simple statement of fact.

There is nothing mindless about it... I dont want to go through Cassel 2.0 again...

Orton does nothing but hurt this franchise long term.. There are any reason or excuses to resign this guy. He needs to go and shouldnt be here in the first place....

Molitoth
12-16-2011, 10:20 AM
I'd love to see Cassel gone, but if Pioli makes a move to get RG3, Barkley, or Manning.... he can stay and be a backup. That is if Orton is gone.

Orton > Cassel.

Pestilence
12-16-2011, 10:23 AM
If we drafted a QB, I could live with Orton for 1 more year.

I'm sorry, but there's nothing that's going to make Matt Cassel palatable for me next year. I've seen that movie and the ending sucks.

I don't want him back under any scenario. He's just not a quality NFL starter.

This.

Orton would be a decent stop gap if the rookie wasn't ready next season.

jd1020
12-16-2011, 10:25 AM
I'd love to see Cassel gone, but if Pioli makes a move to get RG3, Barkley, or Manning.... he can stay and be a backup.

I can see it now... "Welcome to opening day in Kansas City... Manning dropping back to pass on todays first play. Manning looking deep. And he just gets rid of it before getting leveled! And Baldwin with the miraculous catch and he holds onto it after hitting the ground! Uh-oh! Manning is down! He's hurt, bad! It appears to be his neck!... Well, it's a good thing the Chiefs have the pro bowler Matt Cassel to come in and finish the season."

Pestilence
12-16-2011, 10:26 AM
There is nothing mindless about it... I dont want to go through Cassel 2.0 again...

Orton does nothing but hurt this franchise long term.. There are any reason or excuses to resign this guy. He needs to go and shouldnt be here in the first place....

That's bullshit.

What happens if we draft RG3 in the 1st round? Are you going to throw him out there even if you know that he's not ready to perform in the NFL? If you do that....then you risk stunting his growth.

You put sign Orton to a 1-2 year deal and you let him battle it out in TC with the rookie. If the rookie proves that he can handle it...then he gets the starting job. If he proves that he can't handle it in his first season....you have Orton to help win games and bring him along.

Coogs
12-16-2011, 10:27 AM
What could any rookie learn playing behind Cassel?

SNR
12-16-2011, 10:30 AM
I think it's funny that if KC actually had the balls to make a move for one of the top 3 QB's in this draft, people would still be bitching left and right about who the veteran QB is who is a mere placeholder for the rookie. Sometimes I think the fans of the franchise don't deserve a change.Impatience, frustration, and bickering are overwhelming symptoms of no playoff wins since Clinton's first term.

Put Patriot, Steeler, or any other "well-behaved" fan base into that kind of turmoil, and you're likely to get the same reaction on an internet message board.

DJ's left nut
12-16-2011, 10:31 AM
There is nothing mindless about it... I dont want to go through Cassel 2.0 again...

Orton does nothing but hurt this franchise long term.. There are any reason or excuses to resign this guy. He needs to go and shouldnt be here in the first place....

Like I said - stubborn adherence to a dogma.

Kyle Orton isn't Matt Cassel. Orton is a solid NFL quarterback, nothing more, nothing less.

There's no reason that Orton can't go out there and perform like Eli Manning or Joe Flacco. That would be the high end of the 'average' quarterbacks. Neither of those guys are legit star quarterbacks but because they were drafted by the team they play for, folks love to cite them as 'first round quarterback success stories!' Flacco is especially bad in this regard; Joe Flacco's just another okay NFL starter.

To say you refuse to consider Orton because he's just another Cassel is essentially lumping all quarterbacks that aren't rookies or Pro-Bowlers into the same mold.

Orton, unlike Cassel, can actively win you a football game against a tough opponent. He's done it in the past and he's more than capable of doing so again.

Molitoth
12-16-2011, 10:31 AM
I can see it now... "Welcome to opening day in Kansas City... Manning dropping back to pass on todays first play. Manning looking deep. And he just gets rid of it before getting leveled! And Baldwin with the miraculous catch and he holds onto it after hitting the ground! Uh-oh! Manning is down! He's hurt, bad! It appears to be his neck!... Well, it's a good thing the Chiefs have the pro bowler Matt Cassel to come in and finish the season."

LMAO

Yeah.... better yet, lets just get rid of him, haha.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 10:33 AM
That's bullshit.

What happens if we draft RG3 in the 1st round? Are you going to throw him out there even if you know that he's not ready to perform in the NFL? If you do that....then you risk stunting his growth.

You put sign Orton to a 1-2 year deal and you let him battle it out in TC with the rookie. If the rookie proves that he can handle it...then he gets the starting job. If he proves that he can't handle it in his first season....you have Orton to help win games and bring him along.

********************NEWS FASH********************


Kyle Orton Sucks

SNR
12-16-2011, 10:34 AM
That's bullshit.

What happens if we draft RG3 in the 1st round? Are you going to throw him out there even if you know that he's not ready to perform in the NFL? If you do that....then you risk stunting his growth.

You put sign Orton to a 1-2 year deal and you let him battle it out in TC with the rookie. If the rookie proves that he can handle it...then he gets the starting job. If he proves that he can't handle it in his first season....you have Orton to help win games and bring him along.Honestly? I'd cut both Cassel and Orton. RGIII and Stanzi would compete for the starting job, and then we'd sign some shit 3rd string veteran like Sage Rosenfels or someone like that.

The more a Cassel or an Orton sticks around as the starting QB of this team, the more this team smells like failure. I'd much rather have young QBs out there doing the work and getting better than the alternative.

jd1020
12-16-2011, 10:34 AM
********************NEWS FASH********************


Kyle Orton Sucks

FASH

Pestilence
12-16-2011, 10:35 AM
Honestly? I'd cut both Cassel and Orton. RGIII and Stanzi would compete for the starting job, and then we'd sign some shit 3rd string veteran like Sage Rosenfels or someone like that.

The more a Cassel or an Orton sticks around as the starting QB of this team, the more this team smells like failure. I'd much rather have young QBs out there doing the work and getting better than the alternative.

That's assuming that Stanzi gets playing time this season or shows in the offseason that he's worthy. If he proves to be an average QB.....then don't sign Orton. I'm perfectly fine with that.

Pestilence
12-16-2011, 10:36 AM
********************NEWS FASH********************


Kyle Orton Sucks

News Fash! You're a fucking retard.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 10:41 AM
News Fash! You're a ****ing retard.

LMAO


At least I'm not pimping Orton.

Dayum.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 10:43 AM
FASH

LMAO


Flash ok.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 11:04 AM
News Fash! You're a ****ing retard.

BFD, I made a typo on my post. Pimping for Orton or Cassel is the retard thing to do.

Stanzi is the guy they need for compitition and preparing for the new season. We can find a third string else where than Cassel or Orton. Even a late round draft pick would be better than either of those two.

It's the QB coach job to get the guys ready for game day. Not the QB that is just filling the shoes until the guy comes along to take his place.

jd1020
12-16-2011, 11:05 AM
BFD, I made a typo on my post. Pimping for Orton or Cassel is the retard thing to do.

Stanzi is the guy they need for compitition and preparing for the new season. We can find a third string else where than Cassel or Orton. Even a late round draft pick would be better than either of those two.

It's the QB coach job to get the guys ready for game day. Not the QB that is just filling the shoes until the guy comes along to take his place.

Compitition

Reerun_KC
12-16-2011, 11:05 AM
That's bullshit.

What happens if we draft RG3 in the 1st round? Are you going to throw him out there even if you know that he's not ready to perform in the NFL? If you do that....then you risk stunting his growth.

You put sign Orton to a 1-2 year deal and you let him battle it out in TC with the rookie. If the rookie proves that he can handle it...then he gets the starting job. If he proves that he can't handle it in his first season....you have Orton to help win games and bring him along.

ROFL

Why are you lecturing me on "true fan 101"?

Why?

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 11:10 AM
Compitition

ROFL

You guy's kill me!

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 11:35 AM
News Fash! You're a ****ing retard.


Explain how Cassel is better QB today than if he didn't sit behind Tom Brady?

Was he ready to go in under those cercumstances?

It seems to take an injury to the starter for the coaches to replace an incumbant QB or player. It doesn't matter how much the starter sucks, if it's a rookie it's hard for them to get on the field. Much like Hudson over Casey Wiggworm. Untill they get the game time experience they will always be a rookie in that manner.

Chiefs franchise need to start playing potential over has beens or rejects from other teams. Casey Wiggworm was bad his last year here then went to Dungver sucked there and is back here again. Why?

VAChief
12-16-2011, 12:02 PM
Explain how Cassel is better QB today than if he didn't sit behind Tom Brady?

Was he ready to go in under those cercumstances?

It seems to take an injury to the starter for the coaches to replace an incumbant QB or player. It doesn't matter how much the starter sucks, if it's a rookie it's hard for them to get on the field. Much like Hudson over Casey Wiggworm. Untill they get the game time experience they will always be a rookie in that manner.

Chiefs franchise need to start playing potential over has beens or rejects from other teams. Casey Wiggworm was bad his last year here then went to Dungver sucked there and is back here again. Why?

Now you are just messing with him. Right?

Pestilence
12-16-2011, 12:06 PM
Should I quote your post three times to respond?

Thig Lyfe
12-16-2011, 01:16 PM
Cut Cassel. Cut him bad.

Simply from a PR perspective, running his ass out of town would benefit the franchise, uplift spirits, and increase ticket sales.

But cutting him with red-hot, flaming, aids knives would be much more satisfying.

FAX

I came.

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 01:17 PM
Now you are just messing with him. Right?

Maybe? :D

threebag02
12-16-2011, 02:05 PM
With the right polish Orton could shine, Cassel just needs flushed.

threebag02
12-16-2011, 02:13 PM
Keeping Orton would probably be better than who we would pick up as a draft pick in his place it would probably be Sabby 2.0.

O.city
12-16-2011, 02:24 PM
i know people say he will be back but I could see the PR advantage to not bringing him back.

Time to cut the cord Scott. This shield or cloak of invicibility you thought you had becasue you were a Patriot or licked belichcks balls is gone. Be a man and take a risk.

whoman69
12-16-2011, 03:29 PM
Maibee? :D

FYP

threebag02
12-16-2011, 06:09 PM
Explain how Cassel is better QB today than if he didn't sit behind Tom Brady? Why?

Because he had the luxury of hiding behind Brady or his today would have been years ago. Matt Cassel please go now.

Smed1065
12-16-2011, 07:57 PM
Fuck you.

NO!

Stanzi and a QB only.

Reerun_KC
12-16-2011, 07:59 PM
With the right polish Orton could shine, Cassel just needs flushed.

A shit shine is still a shit shine...

beach tribe
12-17-2011, 10:33 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lgI2ZQVyrBo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

beach tribe
12-17-2011, 10:36 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/umDr0mPuyQc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>