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View Full Version : Chiefs Tyson Jackson is having a better season than BJ Raji


Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 01:51 PM
Raji is ranked 6th worst at his position (or 78th) and 3rd worst in run defense. He has 9 stops all year, good for 66th at his position.

http://i40.tinypic.com/ruxic3.jpg

Jackson is ranked 10th at his position and 6th in run defense. He has 32 stops, good for 2nd at his position.

http://i44.tinypic.com/ifxxs9.jpg

Does this mean the drafturbators are defeated forever?

Sofa King
12-16-2011, 01:53 PM
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

Bump
12-16-2011, 01:53 PM
http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h361/Bump4/what-is-love.jpg

KC Tattoo
12-16-2011, 01:54 PM
:huh: Who won the SB last year? Who is undefeated this year?

Bowser
12-16-2011, 01:54 PM
Who the hell is Sean Lissemore?

Jackson has unquestionably imporved his play this year, which is good, but I would say that he isn't playing at Shaun Smith's 2010 level right now, either.

Dexter Manley
12-16-2011, 01:54 PM
:huh: Who won the SB last year? Who is undefeated this year?


Who cares?

We got smart guys from the Pats running our team!!!

Bump
12-16-2011, 01:55 PM
http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h361/Bump4/i3xy7q.gif

jd1020
12-16-2011, 01:55 PM
:huh: Who won the SB last year? Who is undefeated this year?

What's that got to do with Raji vs Jackson?

htismaqe
12-16-2011, 01:56 PM
Who the hell is Sean Lissemore?

Jackson has unquestionably imporved his play this year, which is good, but I would say that he isn't playing at Shaun Smith's 2010 level right now, either.

When I've watched Jackson closely, he's easily been the best member of our line. Glenn Dorsey just isn't the same as he was early - I wonder if his legs aren't still/again an issue.

KCrockaholic
12-16-2011, 01:57 PM
WTF is wrong with Alualu this year?

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 01:57 PM
Who the hell is Sean Lissemore?

Jackson has unquestionably imporved his play this year, which is good, but I would say that he isn't playing at Shaun Smith's 2010 level right now, either.

According to PFF they are playing at basically an identical level, except Jackson is making more stops.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 01:57 PM
Playing like the late first round pick he was supposed to be. Yay.

htismaqe
12-16-2011, 02:02 PM
Playing like the late first round pick he was supposed to be. Yay.

Yeah, it's too bad he was the #3 overall pick.

If he was the #3 overall pick in the 2ND ROUND, he would be a pretty good pick.

Bump
12-16-2011, 02:04 PM
Yeah, it's too bad he was the #3 overall pick.

If he was the #3 overall pick in the 2ND ROUND, he would be a pretty good pick.

and every single pick in the 1st round for that draft would still have been a better pick. TJ is like the only bust, seriously. But he has improved, maybe there's a chance...

jd1020
12-16-2011, 02:04 PM
Yeah, it's too bad he was the #3 overall pick.

If he was the #3 overall pick in the 2ND ROUND, he would be a pretty good pick.

If he continues to improve he'll end up being a pretty good #3 pick. That draft was garbage.

Bowser
12-16-2011, 02:07 PM
I've had this debate with a friend. He swears Jackson was worth the pick, and is now paying dvidends. I tell him he's crazy, that we shouldn't have to wait three seasons before a third overall pick lives up to the billing, which he isn't even really doing now. He's a solid guy, just not a star. He said defensive linemen aren't supposed to be stars, but merely do their job and freee up space for the linebackers and DB's to make plays. I say then why draft a guy that high to do a throw away job, and he says you need a guy that's good at his position to do that job.

And on. And on. And on.

O.city
12-16-2011, 02:08 PM
Richard Seymour 2.0

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2011, 02:14 PM
Yeah, it's too bad he was the #3 overall pick.

If he was the #3 overall pick in the 2ND ROUND, he would be a pretty good pick.

Or if he was #15 pick on down.

Bump
12-16-2011, 02:15 PM
Richard Seymour 2.0

that would be nice

Pestilence
12-16-2011, 02:21 PM
How many TDs does Tyson Jackson have?

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 02:21 PM
PFF is awful.

O.city
12-16-2011, 02:22 PM
PFF is awful.

Why? Because you labeled Jackson a bust already and it turns out he is turning out to be a decent player?

SNR
12-16-2011, 02:29 PM
Why? Because you labeled Jackson a bust already and it turns out he is turning out to be a decent player?Jackson was a bust the moment he was taken at #3 overall. Unless he turns into Super Richard Seymour and starts raping faces on every down every game, he's not worth the pick and never will be.

We weren't awarded that pick by the NFL just to pick up a "solid" player. They give those picks to the BAD teams who are in need of franchise players. Jackson likely will never aspire to that level.

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2011, 02:29 PM
Does this mean the drafturbators are defeated forever?

Raji was just the runner up pick, Sanchez was the main one.

ILChief
12-16-2011, 02:29 PM
Richard Seymour 2.0

Too bad we need Tom Brady 2.0. Instead we have Elvis Grbac 1.1

O.city
12-16-2011, 02:31 PM
Jackson was a bust the moment he was taken at #3 overall. Unless he turns into Super Richard Seymour and starts raping faces on every down every game, he's not worth the pick and never will be.

We weren't awarded that pick by the NFL just to pick up a "solid" player. They give those picks to the BAD teams who are in need of franchise players. Jackson likely will never aspire to that level.

That's fine.


Also who was drafted 4th in that draft? How many game changers were taken in the top 10 that year?

Deberg_1990
12-16-2011, 02:33 PM
My guess is, these two could trade teams and the Chiefs would be 5-8 and the Packers 13-0

SNR
12-16-2011, 02:36 PM
That's fine.


Also who was drafted 4th in that draft? How many game changers were taken in the top 10 that year?There's a difference between drafting players worthy of that selection come draft time who eventually wind up to be busts and actively SEEKING OUT bust players just because it's likely their bust level isn't as busty as the other busts.

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 02:37 PM
Why? Because you labeled Jackson a bust already and it turns out he is turning out to be a decent player?

Tyson Jackson always will be a bust. PFF sucks because people like Clayton think it has some value. BJ Raji is clearly a better player than Tyson Jackson but people like Clayton will use this one year and try to claim they are equals. It's kind of like the .gif thing that showed Wigemann beating Franklin a few plays to everyone on here it showed how great Wigemann is!

FD
12-16-2011, 02:41 PM
In retrospect the pick should have been Orako or Clay Matthews. Its easy to make picks in hindsight though, the top of that draft is just awful looking back.

Sofa King
12-16-2011, 02:42 PM
Tyson Jackson always will be a bust. PFF sucks because people like Clayton think it has some value. BJ Raji is clearly a better player than Tyson Jackson but people like Clayton will use this one year and try to claim they are equals. It's kind of like the .gif thing that showed Wigemann beating Franklin a few plays to everyone on here it showed how great Wigemann is!

Who the hell is Wigemann?

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 02:42 PM
PFF is awful.

So awful it's used by over 25 percent of the NFL teams.

O.city
12-16-2011, 02:42 PM
Tyson Jackson always will be a bust. PFF sucks because people like Clayton think it has some value. BJ Raji is clearly a better player than Tyson Jackson but people like Clayton will use this one year and try to claim they are equals. It's kind of like the .gif thing that showed Wigemann beating Franklin a few plays to everyone on here it showed how great Wigemann is!

So no matter what the guy does he will be abust in your eyes?

I agree he's no Richard Seymour but the guy is in his 3 full season.

Fritz88
12-16-2011, 02:46 PM
BJ has almost 180 more snaps..

yeah

HemiEd
12-16-2011, 02:49 PM
That's fine.


Also who was drafted 4th in that draft? How many game changers were taken in the top 10 that year?

Curry,

IMO, the Packers got the best non QB pick in that draft at 26. I think the jury is still out on all three of the QBs (Sanchez, Stafford, Freeman) but one of them just kicked our ass that was available at 3.

Munson
12-16-2011, 02:49 PM
Tyson Jackson was our worst first round pick since Ryan Sims in '02. Even though his play his slightly improved this year, he's still a POS. I honestly can't think of one game where he's made a difference. Hell, he didn't get his first career sack until just recently. He'll never live up to his #3 overall pick.

jd1020
12-16-2011, 02:49 PM
BJ has almost 180 more snaps..

yeah

157 = Almost a random number like 180?

Garcia Bronco
12-16-2011, 02:50 PM
Raji is ranked 6th worst at his position (or 78th) and 3rd worst in run defense. He has 9 stops all year, good for 66th at his position.

http://i40.tinypic.com/ruxic3.jpg

Jackson is ranked 10th at his position and 6th in run defense. He has 32 stops, good for 2nd at his position.

http://i44.tinypic.com/ifxxs9.jpg

Does this mean the drafturbators are defeated forever?

Bj can't hear you ove rthe sound of his super Bowl ring

jd1020
12-16-2011, 02:50 PM
Bj can't hear you ove rthe sound of his super Bowl ring

Aaron Rodgers says you're welcome BJ.

Mr_Tomahawk
12-16-2011, 02:51 PM
This makes me feel so much better now.

Fritz88
12-16-2011, 02:51 PM
157 = Almost a random number like 180?

I wasn't wearing my glasses. LMAO

Still, BJ has way more snaps than Tyson Bust.

BossChief
12-16-2011, 02:52 PM
Raji was just the runner up pick, Sanchez was the main one.
If we drafted Sanchez, we would be where we are right now (needing to replace the quarterback) and we wouldnt even have a solid defender going forward.

Tyson Jackson isnt some great player by any stretch, but a LDEs MAIN JOB is run defense and he is 6th at his position at that.

I wonder where Sanchez is ranked with other quarterbacks.

For this year alone, Jackson > Sanchez, Raji.
Tyson Jackson always will be a bust. PFF sucks because people like Clayton think it has some value. BJ Raji is clearly a better player than Tyson Jackson but people like Clayton will use this one year and try to claim they are equals. It's kind of like the .gif thing that showed Wigemann beating Franklin a few plays to everyone on here it showed how great Wigemann is!

Weigmann was one of the best centers in the league again this year, until his weight dropped (as I said would happen well before the year started, even mentioned it last year) around week 9 or 10 and your boy Franklin is still a backup quality player for NO.

Its a shame the coaching staff hasnt done as I thought they would and sat Casey down once his play slipped and played the kid the rest of the way out.

Hudson is gonna be a damn fine center for us.

Deberg_1990
12-16-2011, 02:54 PM
Tyson Jackson was our worst first round pick since Ryan Sims in '02. Even though his play his slightly improved this year, he's still a POS. I honestly can't think of one game where he's made a difference. Hell, he didn't get his first career sack until just recently. He'll never live up to his #3 overall pick.

Tyjack is worlds better than Ryan Sims.

HemiEd
12-16-2011, 02:54 PM
Tyson Jackson was our worst first round pick since Ryan Sims in '02. Even though his play his slightly improved this year, he's still a POS. I honestly can't think of one game where he's made a difference. Hell, he didn't get his first career sack until just recently. He'll never live up to his #3 overall pick.

I guess accuracy is not your strong suit, he got his second sack recently, not that that is a big difference.

But as many of the more "in the know" posters on here have said, from the minute he was picked, 5 Techs don't get sacks. They eat up blockers and allow the LBers to do their jobs.

Is there a slight chance that Jackson's improved play has helped the LBers improve?

But yeah, #3 as most agree, was too high.

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 02:58 PM
If we drafted Sanchez, we would be where we are right now (needing to replace the quarterback) and we wouldnt even have a solid defender going forward.

Tyson Jackson isnt some great player by any stretch, but a LDEs MAIN JOB is run defense and he is 6th at his position at that.

I wonder where Sanchez is ranked with other quarterbacks.

For this year alone, Jackson > Sanchez, Raji.


Weigmann was one of the best centers in the league again this year, until his weight dropped (as I said would happen well before the year started, even mentioned it last year) around week 9 or 10 and your boy Franklin is still a backup quality player for NO.

Its a shame the coaching staff hasnt done as I thought they would and sat Casey down once his play slipped and played the kid the rest of the way out.

Hudson is gonna be a damn fine center for us.

Yes and I argued that it was dumb to sign a guy who can only give you 8 games and stunt the growth of a younger player (I was right). Franklin will be a starter somewhere next year.

BossChief
12-16-2011, 02:58 PM
I bet Justin Houston knows that Tyson Jackson is doing a good job.

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 02:58 PM
So awful it's used by over 25 percent of the NFL teams.

Lol yeah and NFL clubs read Nick Athan too.

vailpass
12-16-2011, 03:03 PM
So gochiefs would you trade tyson jackson for bj raji straight up?

BossChief
12-16-2011, 03:06 PM
Yes and I argued that it was dumb to sign a guy who can only give you 8 games and stunt the growth of a younger player (I was right). Franklin will be a starter somewhere next year.

I dont think so, bud.

Franklin wasnt looked at as a guy that was starter quality THIS YEAR by the NFL, at age 31. What makes you think that will change when he turns 32?

Also, did you notice his old team is fucking teams up in run defense without him? They are only giving up 70 yards per game and are first in the NFL....2nd team in the NFL is Baltimore and they are giving up 86/game.

Sure looks like Franklin was the bitch in that scenario.

ROFL at our debate of if we should sign him to a long term contract, or not, last year.

BossChief
12-16-2011, 03:09 PM
So gochiefs would you trade tyson jackson for bj raji straight up?

Thats probably worth discussion at some point.

This may be a little too early, though.

If the numbers shake out like this next year, it would be a no brainer.

HemiEd
12-16-2011, 03:09 PM
I bet Justin Houston knows that Tyson Jackson is doing a good job.

R-

Mr. Laz
12-16-2011, 03:10 PM
Playing like the late first round pick he was supposed to be. Yay.

Yeah, it's too bad he was the #3 overall pick.

If he was the #3 overall pick in the 2ND ROUND, he would be a pretty good pick.
wow ... look at them work together.

it's almost like they are holding hands

vailpass
12-16-2011, 03:11 PM
Thats probably worth discussion at some point.

This may be a little too early, though.

If the numbers shake out like this next year, it would be a no brainer.

LMAO

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2011, 03:12 PM
If we drafted Sanchez, we would be where we are right now (needing to replace the quarterback) and we wouldnt even have a solid defender going forward.


Actually we would be going on to year two of the Sanchez era more than likely. I doubt he would have played alot his rookie year.

JASONSAUTO
12-16-2011, 03:16 PM
Actually we would be going on to year two of the Sanchez era more than likely. I doubt he would have played alot his rookie year.

and we would have been one year behind where we are now...



he still would suck.

he sucks, he has sucked and he is going to suck.


just like cassel

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 03:18 PM
I dont think so, bud.

Franklin wasnt looked at as a guy that was starter quality THIS YEAR by the NFL, at age 31. What makes you think that will change when he turns 32?

Also, did you notice his old team is ****ing teams up in run defense without him? They are only giving up 70 yards per game and are first in the NFL....2nd team in the NFL is Baltimore and they are giving up 86/game.

Sure looks like Franklin was the bitch in that scenario.

ROFL at our debate of if we should sign him to a long term contract, or not, last year.

His old team tried to re-sign him this off season after you and a few others tried to make the argument that he was no good because San Fransico let him hit free agency. Also he's not starting in New Orlenas 1.Because he's a 34 guy. 2. They have Rogers and Ellis.

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 03:18 PM
Thats probably worth discussion at some point.

This may be a little too early, though.

If the numbers shake out like this next year, it would be a no brainer.

You're a tool.

JASONSAUTO
12-16-2011, 03:20 PM
His old team tried to re-sign him this off season after you and a few others tried to make the argument that he was no good because San Fransico let him hit free agency. Also he's not starting in New Orlenas 1.Because he's a 34 guy. 2. They have Rogers and Ellis.

maybe he's just not that good.


or just stupid. why would he sign somewhere where he wasnt going to get to play much?


i vote that its both.

Frankie
12-16-2011, 03:21 PM
I really don't get this obsessive urge and desire by some Planeteers to actually WANT some Chiefs players to be busts! It's as if their own ego, their desire to be correct and score a point supersedes their being a fan of the Chiefs. We are seeing examples of it in this thread but I'm talking in general.

Me, I WANT T-Jax to become a very good DE. It will save us a future draft pick. A draft pick saved is a draft pick earned. I WANT Stanzi to show Brady-like potential. We could then use our first round draft choice on another needed position. I have been delighted with the emergence of Houston. Reading empirical evidence for T-Jax's improvement gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling even though I was one of you who hated the pick. If he keeps improving it bodes well for our D-line next year. And if he keeps improving for a while he might even play like a 3rd player taken in a draft. Better late than never.

Each player that pans out, either as draft choices or emerging from nowhere, solves a big team problem. All of you who insist and want T-Jax, McCluster, Battle, etc. to be busts, just so your own predictions are right, are fans of yourselves and not the Chiefs.

Amnorix
12-16-2011, 03:22 PM
and every single pick in the 1st round for that draft would still have been a better pick. TJ is like the only bust, seriously. But he has improved, maybe there's a chance...



Wait, what?

Have you LOOKED at the 2009 draft? It's full of Epic Fail mediocrity...

jd1020
12-16-2011, 03:23 PM
maybe he's just not that good.


or just stupid. why would he sign somewhere where he wasnt going to get to play much?


i vote that its both.

Only team that offered him a contract who has a chance to get him a ring?

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 03:24 PM
maybe he's just not that good.


or just stupid. why would he sign somewhere where he wasnt going to get to play much?


i vote that its both.

He's better than any NT we have on the roster. It's pretty clear he was asking way too much.

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2011, 03:26 PM
and we would have been one year behind where we are now...

he still would suck.

he sucks, he has sucked and he is going to suck.

just like cassel

Jets aren't going to be dumping him this offseason.

JASONSAUTO
12-16-2011, 03:27 PM
Only team that offered him a contract who has a chance to get him a ring?

sorry but that screams loser to me if thats the truth.

why would you want a ring that you didnt really earn?

JASONSAUTO
12-16-2011, 03:28 PM
Jets aren't going to be dumping him this offseason.

so...


he still sucks, sorry buddy.

if we had drafted him we would just be right where we are now...



no qb

JASONSAUTO
12-16-2011, 03:28 PM
He's better than any NT we have on the roster. It's pretty clear he was asking way too much.

thats debatable.


SF has a pretty good d this year without him. better than last IMO

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 03:33 PM
thats debatable.


SF has a pretty good d this year without him. better than last IMO

The defense was pretty good last year but youre right it's better than year. They upgraded at corner and Aldon Smith is a beast. It also helps they got rid of Manuskys dumbass.

Pitt Gorilla
12-16-2011, 03:39 PM
TJax has played really well this year.

Smed1065
12-16-2011, 03:43 PM
Yeah, it's too bad he was the #3 overall pick.

If he was the #3 overall pick in the 2ND ROUND, he would be a pretty good pick.

Our second rounders?

:hmmm:

Smed1065
12-16-2011, 03:44 PM
Tyson Jackson always will be a bust. PFF sucks because people like Clayton think it has some value. BJ Raji is clearly a better player than Tyson Jackson but people like Clayton will use this one year and try to claim they are equals. It's kind of like the .gif thing that showed Wigemann beating Franklin a few plays to everyone on here it showed how great Wigemann is!

Maybe it will be more than one year? Guess you are smart cause you know the future.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 04:08 PM
BJ Raji is clearly a better player than Tyson Jackson but people like Clayton will use this one year and try to claim they are equals.

Well, no, he's not. He's terrible against the run.

BossChief
12-16-2011, 04:09 PM
You're a tool.

Haha

Yeah, because I said that if player "x" is better than player "y" 2 years in a row that I wouldnt trade player "x" for player "y"

I'm really sorry that you were born without the ability to use even the simplest elements of logic.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 04:09 PM
He's better than any NT we have on the roster. It's pretty clear he was asking way too much.

Not according to PFF.

Kelly Gregg has been good against the run.

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 05:38 PM
Well, no, he's not. He's terrible against the run.

Yeah 12th ranked run defense. He fucking sucks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 05:46 PM
Teams use PFF, but that doesn't mean they use it heavily or exclusively. Someone who flosses twice a month uses floss, but they don't use it the way a daily flosser does.

Furthermore, has there been any kind of independent analysis that suggests PFF's methodology is actually accurate? A number of teams used inept statistical models in the past in baseball.

The use of an item does not legitimize it.

Brock
12-16-2011, 05:55 PM
stats are funny sometimes.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 05:58 PM
Teams use PFF, but that doesn't mean they use it heavily or exclusively. Someone who flosses twice a month uses floss, but they don't use it the way a daily flosser does.

Furthermore, has there been any kind of independent analysis that suggests PFF's methodology is actually accurate? A number of teams used inept statistical models in the past in baseball.

The use of an item does not legitimize it.

LMAO

So it's just coincidence that BJ Raji is ranked at the bottom of the run defense ranks. I mean the very FUCKING BOTTOM. Along with other slugs like Terrell McClain.

He's actually good.

LMAOLMAOLMAO

FYI, Football Outsiders has Green Bay's run defense ranked 29th, PFF has it ranked 31st.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:00 PM
LMAO

So it's just coincidence that BJ Raji is ranked at the bottom of the run defense ranks. I mean the very FUCKING BOTTOM.

He's actually good.

LMAOLMAOLMAO

FYI, Football Outsiders has Green Bay's run defense ranked 29th, PFF has it ranked 31st.

I made none of those claims. I said that using the only frame of argument as "PFF says" is meaningless unless we know that its methodology works.

Is it testable and measurable?

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 06:01 PM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/02/three-to-focus-on-packers-giants-week-13/

B.J. Raji had a breakout season last year and with the loss of Cullen Jenkins (free agency) and Mike Neal (knee), the Packers were counting on Raji to pick up where he left off. He hasn’t. His run defense wasn’t always consistent in 2010, but he at least finished with respectable -0.7 cumulative rating. Through the first eight games of this season Raji had played a whopping 88% of the team’s defensive snaps, but was less effective against the run (and pass, for that matter) with a grade of -2.5.

Since then, Green Bay has cut back on his playing time – down to 67% of defensive snaps — hoping that a fresher Raji will also mean a more effective one. So far that hasn’t been the case. His grade is now down to -5.8 and Raji still hasn’t posted a positive game in run defense since Week 2 against the Panthers.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-16-2011, 06:01 PM
Yeah 12th ranked run defense. He fucking sucks.

Teams are always behind. What is thier YPC allowed?

Smed1065
12-16-2011, 06:01 PM
Teams use PFF, but that doesn't mean they use it heavily or exclusively. Someone who flosses twice a month uses floss, but they don't use it the way a daily flosser does.

Furthermore, has there been any kind of independent analysis that suggests PFF's methodology is actually accurate? A number of teams used inept statistical models in the past in baseball.

The use of an item does not legitimize it.

No shit like combines?

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:02 PM
No shit like combines?

It's never the only thing to use.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 06:02 PM
I made none of those claims. I said that using the only frame of argument as "PFF says" is meaningless unless we know that its methodology works.

Is it testable and measurable?

Yeah. Get five guys to watch the same game and report on what they see. That's what they do.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:02 PM
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/02/three-to-focus-on-packers-giants-week-13/

You do realize that this is circular reasoning, right?

TheGuardian
12-16-2011, 06:02 PM
Wait you mean Jackson has improved considerably in his third year just like I predicted he would?

Interesting.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 06:04 PM
The Packers give up 4.8 yards per carry.

I'm sure that's because Raji is actually playing well.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:05 PM
Yeah. Get five guys to watch the same game and report on what they see. That's what they do.

What are the backgrounds of these guys? What happens when they have disagreements?

TheGuardian
12-16-2011, 06:05 PM
Anyone that can't see that Tyson Jackson is playing well is just drinking haterade.

Prolly the same bozos who said Hali could never be a defensive cornerstone or would suck at outside linebacker.

Don't know shit.

Smed1065
12-16-2011, 06:06 PM
It's never the only thing to use.

So it could be more or less.

You mentioned how they used it and to what effect.

TY.

BossChief
12-16-2011, 06:06 PM
The defense was pretty good last year but youre right it's better than year. They upgraded at corner and Aldon Smith is a beast. It also helps they got rid of Manuskys dumbass.

It also helps that they dumped their distraction.

Addition by subtraction.

The fact that you think he is good is all we need to know.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:07 PM
Anyone that can't see that Tyson Jackson is playing well is just drinking haterade.

Prolly the same bozos who said Hali could never be a defensive cornerstone or would suck at outside linebacker.

Don't know shit.

No one is even talking about Tyson Jackson right now, Glandor.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 06:07 PM
Let's see what some Packers fans think.

http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/index.php?showtopic=21529&st=0

It seemed to me Raji was getting stood up and blown off the line a lot.


That he was.

Smed1065
12-16-2011, 06:08 PM
Anyone that can't see that Tyson Jackson is playing well is just drinking haterade.

Prolly the same bozos who said Hali could never be a defensive cornerstone or would suck at outside linebacker.

Don't know shit.

TruE, not like #3 but shit better than a second round pick for us.

NM. I forgot it was SaNchez option before we picked.

:hmmm:

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:09 PM
Let's see what some Packers fans think.

http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/index.php?showtopic=21529&st=0

I could easily find multiple posts on here that suggest that Tyler Thigpen is a legit QBOTF.

That's pretty low hanging fruit.

BossChief
12-16-2011, 06:11 PM
I still say Orakpo was the perfect fit that year.

Think of our defense with Hali and Orakpo the last 3 years...

aturnis
12-16-2011, 06:13 PM
Yeah 12th ranked run defense. He ****ing sucks.

That's a loaded stat if I ever saw one. Yes, they have the 12th rated run defense, soley b/c they score gobs and gobs of point, and teams are forced to throw the ball to try and keep up. The Packers give up 4.8yds per rush attempt. Good for 28th in the league.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:13 PM
I still say Orakpo was the perfect fit that year.

Think of our defense with Hali and Orakpo the last 3 years...

I wanted Sanchez, Maclin, and Orakpo.

:sulk:

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 06:14 PM
Oh crap.

http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/index.php?showtopic=21529&st=30&p=402066&#entry402066

Raji has also been a major disappointment.


http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/index.php?showtopic=21529&st=40&p=402224&#entry402224

I watched the replay on NFL network last night....no push by the d-line. I don't know what Capers saw in Raji to warrent his comments about him playing well. He is 2-3 yards pushed back a ton.

http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/index.php?showtopic=21531&st=30&p=401840&#entry401840

Raji was stood up and pushed around way too much against the run. (but was better as a pass rusher, though he didn't finish)

TheGuardian
12-16-2011, 06:14 PM
TruE, not like #3 but shit better than a second round pick for us.

NM. I forgot it was SaNchez option before we picked.

:hmmm:

I don't think Jackson could ever really live up to being the #3 overall pick. He'd have to be the next Bruce Smith to do that. I've said that all along. I've also said all along that T-Jack has some good ability and if he could get to that potential he wouldn't be a bust. If he can elevate his game just a little more for next season that would be the case.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:14 PM
That's a loaded stat if I ever saw one. Yes, they have the 12th rated run defense, soley b/c they score gobs and gobs of point, and teams are forced to throw the ball to try and keep up. The Packers give up 4.8yds per rush attempt. Good for 28th in the league.

That could also be a loaded stat. If you're way ahead you gain more when you run because teams are playing the pass.

See: McCluster, Dexter.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 06:15 PM
I still say Orakpo was the perfect fit that year.

Think of our defense with Hali and Orakpo the last 3 years...

Yep, this still doesn't excuse Pioli.

Could have picked someone other than Houston this year if we had Orakpo.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:16 PM
Oh crap.

http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/index.php?showtopic=21529&st=30&p=402066&#entry402066



http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/index.php?showtopic=21529&st=40&p=402224&#entry402224



http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/index.php?showtopic=21531&st=30&p=401840&#entry401840

None of this has attempted to answer any of my questions, which have focused specifically on PFF's methodology and accuracy.

aturnis
12-16-2011, 06:18 PM
I still say Orakpo was the perfect fit that year.

Think of our defense with Hali and Orakpo the last 3 years...

I did. It was awesome.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 06:18 PM
None of this has attempted to answer any of my questions, which have focused specifically on PFF's methodology and accuracy.

Well, we now have three independent sources saying Green Bay's run defense sucks, two of which have vilified BJ Raji.

I guess there's a chance they're all a bunch of morons, though.

Smed1065
12-16-2011, 06:27 PM
Well, we now have three independent sources saying Green Bay's run defense sucks, two of which have vilified BJ Raji.

I guess there's a chance they're all a bunch of morons, though.

Haters.

Caseyguyrr
12-16-2011, 06:30 PM
justin smith has a 40.2 rating, holy shit

BossChief
12-16-2011, 06:34 PM
I wanted Sanchez, Maclin, and Orakpo.

:sulk:

You wanted Orakpo till Mecca came out with his "toilet brush" crap and then you cooled off on him a bit and I never really understood why. That guy knew a lot about players, but his ability to add it all up and make a call on any player was poor at best.

I asked about everyone here (when I first started an account on CP) why they didn't like Orakpo and "he played at Texas" was the common answer.

Never made any sense.

Guy is a fucking terror as a pass rusher, owning not only speed moves and GREAT HANDS, but also immense power to bull rush. He also shines in run defense, consistently standing linemen straight up and owning the corner and Ive seen him even lift linemen right off their feet and walk them backwards, even as a rook....extremely impressive player that had every tool you look for in a 3-4 OLB.

At least Tyson is turning into what most in the NFL thought he would be when he was drafted, a guy that started to turn it up in his third year and it wasnt a totally wasted pick like some here thought it would be from the start.

The fact he is our best DL and Dorsey isnt is very telling.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:41 PM
You wanted Orakpo till Mecca came out with his "toilet brush" crap and then you cooled off on him a bit and I never really understood why. That guy knew a lot about players, but his ability to add it all up and make a call on any player was poor at best.

I asked about everyone here (when I first started an account on CP) why they didn't like Orakpo and "he played at Texas" was the common answer.

Never made any sense.

Guy is a fucking terror as a pass rusher, owning not only speed moves and GREAT HANDS, but also immense power to bull rush. He also shines in run defense, consistently standing linemen straight up and owning the corner and Ive seen him even lift linemen right off their feet and walk them backwards, even as a rook....extremely impressive player that had every tool you look for in a 3-4 OLB.

At least Tyson is turning into what most in the NFL thought he would be when he was drafted, a guy that started to turn it up in his third year and it wasnt a totally wasted pick like some here thought it would be from the start.

The fact he is our best DL and Dorsey isnt is very telling.

Tedford QBs, Spread QBs, hybrid ends, etc. There's a reason why people use those as reasons to be wary of certain players, because a lot of times those players have a propensity for failure beyond what their apparent talent would suggest.

Mecca's toilet brush comment came after I stepped off the gas (but still definitely liked) Orakpo. My biggest concerns with him were 1) his late season swoon, and 2) his propensity to get dinged.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 06:42 PM
Well, we now have three independent sources saying Green Bay's run defense sucks, two of which have vilified BJ Raji.

I guess there's a chance they're all a bunch of morons, though.

Let's analyze this a little bit:

I asked you how PFF does their analysis. Your response is to point to message board posts as a way to validate their analysis.

You don't see a problem with this line of logic?

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 06:47 PM
It also helps that they dumped their distraction.

Addition by subtraction.

The fact that you think he is good is all we need to know.


LMAO


Right we should all listen to your useful knowledge. Keep in mind you are the one who continually sucked Pioli/Haley's cocks and we've seen how right you were this year.

You continue to whine like a bitch over a redneck who couldn't even beat out Tyler Palko LMAO

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 06:51 PM
Let's analyze this a little bit:

I asked you how PFF does their analysis. Your response is to point to message board posts as a way to validate their analysis.

You don't see a problem with this line of logic?

I told you how they do their analysis. They get a team of five to watch each game. Likely, five clones of 'Hamas' Jenkins so they get everything right.

You are seeking to prove Raji doesn't suck balls, correct? It would seem there's little evidence he's having a good season.

Chocolate Hog
12-16-2011, 06:54 PM
Tyson Jackson has 2 sacks his whole career.

BJ Raji has 3 sacks this season.

The fucking fail between GoChiefs and BossChief is amazing.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 07:04 PM
Tyson Jackson has 2 sacks his whole career.

BJ Raji has 3 sacks this season.

The fucking fail between GoChiefs and BossChief is amazing.

We're not talking about pass rush.

A nose tackle who can rush the passer, but can't hold up against the run, is pretty useless in the Chiefs' defensive system.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 07:08 PM
I told you how they do their analysis. They get a team of five to watch each game. Likely, five clones of 'Hamas' Jenkins so they get everything right.

You are seeking to prove Raji doesn't suck balls, correct? It would seem there's little evidence he's having a good season.

No, I'm seeking to understand why "PFF says" becomes the end of every measurement of a player's worth.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 07:10 PM
No, I'm seeking to understand why "PFF says" becomes the end of every measurement of a player's worth.

Do you see another site rating player performance out there?

These guys have been doing this for over 1,000 games. The NFL puts stock into their product. They are legit.

You rarely question, say, PFF coming down hard on Barry Richardson, so why the sudden skepticism?

Chief Roundup
12-16-2011, 07:11 PM
No, I'm seeking to understand why "PFF says" becomes the end of every measurement of a player's worth.

Because it agrees with a point that he is trying to make. :shrug:

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 07:19 PM
Because it agrees with a point that he is trying to make. :shrug:

I completely stumbled upon Raji's rating by accident. Then I decided to post this thread as drafturbait.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 07:19 PM
Do you see another site rating player performance out there?

These guys have been doing this for over 1,000 games. The NFL puts stock into their product. They are legit.

You rarely question, say, PFF coming down hard on Barry Richardson, so why the sudden skepticism?

I could create a QB metric that says Matt Cassel is a terrible QB, but that doesn't mean that said metric is actually a worthwhile tool, nor does being the only game in town make it beyond reproach.

We still don't have evidence that their statistical model (and how do they reach their numbers, BTW?) is indicative of good play. Football is much, much more difficult to quantify than a game like baseball, which is still largely misunderstood by the vast majority of people who watch the game.

Yeah, we can see things like missed tackles and TFLs, but how does the model treat someone who stays in his gaps all day and makes every play he should but no spectacular ones as opposed to the LaVar Arringtons of the world.

I don't know the answer to that question. It may be eminently fair. But I'm also not going to assume that it is simply because it offers a nice potential solution to a problem.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 07:27 PM
I'll tell you why I think it's fair.

PFF's ratings for Tyson Jackson by year:

2009: -40.9 overall, -33.4 run defense
2010: -3.4 overall, -1.4 run defense
2011: 6.4 overall, 9.3 run defense

That falls in line with the consensus around here that Jackson was awful his first year, showed improvement last year, and is playing pretty well this year.

To me, when I see stuff like that (and I could do this with a lot of other players we've watched closely over the years, like Cassel, Hali, DJ, etc), I put a lot of stock into what PFF does.

If that's not good enough for you, so be it.

Dexter Manley
12-16-2011, 07:33 PM
Someone needs to start a poll...

With the third pick, the Chiefs select

1. Tyson Jackson
2. Mark Sanchez
3. Josh Freeman
4. other - state name in post below

Thanks...

-King-
12-16-2011, 07:35 PM
Where does Terrence Cody rank?
Posted via Mobile Device

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-16-2011, 07:41 PM
I still don't think you understand what I'm getting at.

Again, you can draw up a metric that points to year-to-year increases, and maybe that metric fits for analyzing a guy like Tyson Jackson, it doesn't mean the statistical model is accurate.

An analogy:

I use batting average as a way to demonstrate who is the best baseball player. It just so happens that the best players usually have very high batting averages, but the stat in and of itself isn't all that useful in determining a player's worth.

Dexter Manley
12-16-2011, 07:44 PM
Deion's partner in Dallas always had more PDs and INTs than Deion. Stats rule, baby. Every one was a better corner than the Neon one by the ratio of stats...

and those who claim other teams threw away from Deion, don't listen to them...

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 07:45 PM
Where does Terrence Cody rank?
Posted via Mobile Device

Better than BJ Raji, but not by much.

Count Zarth
12-16-2011, 07:49 PM
Deion's partner in Dallas always had more PDs and INTs than Deion. Stats rule, baby. Everyone one was a better corner than the Neon one by the ratio of stats...

and those who claim other teams threw away from Deion, don't listen to them...

You realize PFF has little to do with stats, right?

It will literally dock a cornerback based on a play where he was beaten, but the pass was overthrown.

It also takes into account guys who aren't targeted much because they are elite corners.

Example: Last season they had Asomugha targeted only 29 times, but he had the 4th highest coverage rating.

Dexter Manley
12-16-2011, 07:52 PM
You realize PFF has little to do with stats, right?

It will literally dock a cornerback based on a play where he was beaten, but the pass was overthrown.

It also takes into account guys who aren't targeted much because they are elite corners.

Example: Last season they had Asomugha targeted only 29 times, but he had the 4th highest coverage rating.


I'm not criticizing it, other than to say that I never found talent from a spreadsheet...

PFF may be the best darn spreadsheet yet...

Smed1065
12-16-2011, 07:54 PM
I still don't think you understand what I'm getting at.

Again, you can draw up a metric that points to year-to-year increases, and maybe that metric fits for analyzing a guy like Tyson Jackson, it doesn't mean the statistical model is accurate.

An analogy:

I use batting average as a way to demonstrate who is the best baseball player. It just so happens that the best players usually have very high batting averages, but the stat in and of itself isn't all that useful in determining a player's worth.

My feelings are the best no matter the facts.......Unless its 20/20.

Frankie
12-16-2011, 10:07 PM
Maybe it will be more than one year? Guess you are smart cause you know the future.T-Jax has shown steady improvement every year. No reason to believe the next few years will be any different. Neil Smith did the same.

Anyone that can't see that Tyson Jackson is playing well is just drinking haterade.

Prolly the same bozos who said Hali could never be a defensive cornerstone or would suck at outside linebacker. Funny you mention Hali. I was thinking the same thing. As of merely two seasons ago the majority of posters here called him a bust and wanted the Chiefs to cut him. :D
I still say Orakpo was the perfect fit that year.

Think of our defense with Hali and Orakpo the last 3 years... + Babin, and Dorsey in his natural position. But Mr. Pioli just HAD to jam a 43 team into a 34 hole right away. :banghead:

BossChief
12-16-2011, 11:12 PM
Its nearly impossible to create a perfect metric for football. To do so, you would need to have access to the list of called plays so you could determine how often the player was doing what was asked of him.

PFF is by far the best rating tool available right now and until someone comes along and one ups it, it will continue to be just that.

I used to use it quite a bit and found it to be a very useful tool, till they started charging for the service and I deemed it an unnecessary cost.

Direckshun
12-16-2011, 11:23 PM
Tedford QBs, Spread QBs, hybrid ends, etc. There's a reason why people use those as reasons to be wary of certain players, because a lot of times those players have a propensity for failure beyond what their apparent talent would suggest.

Mecca's toilet brush comment came after I stepped off the gas (but still definitely liked) Orakpo. My biggest concerns with him were 1) his late season swoon, and 2) his propensity to get dinged.

You admitted the fact he played at Texas was a factor.

teedubya
12-17-2011, 01:06 AM
Wish we had found a way to trade #3 for maybe 15th overall... we would still got Tyson Jackson... and he'd be WAY less wealthy.

Smed1065
12-17-2011, 01:28 AM
Wish we had found a way to trade #3 for maybe 15th overall... we would still got Tyson Jackson... and he'd be WAY less wealthy.

Get over it, its not our money... OMG 2 years later. Idiot.

KCrockaholic
12-17-2011, 01:29 AM
Not that I know them personally, but I talk to the PFF guys fairly often, and they are pretty football intelligent guys. I actually did a little bit of work for them a few months ago. It's extremely exhausting work. But they have multiple people doing multiple things to review each game. I've been a fan of them since they started in 2008 (when it was free). And they just do a really great job of collecting data, and creating stats that most NFL sites do not have, or haven't keep track of. That's my only take on them. They're great, and I put a lot of stock into what they post. I just won't pay the price for it.

Smed1065
12-17-2011, 01:29 AM
You admitted the fact he played at Texas was a factor.

LMAO

That because if he like em, Its all good.

If he hates em, fuck em.........

LOCOChief
12-17-2011, 03:42 AM
http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h361/Bump4/i3xy7q.gif

LMAO Is that Gary Busey?

lcarus
12-17-2011, 03:49 AM
:huh: Who won the SB last year? Who is undefeated this year?

To answer your first question: Aaron Rodgers.
To answer your second question: Aaron Rodgers

Tyson Jackson just needs Rodgers, then we will all see how magnificent he is.

Sofa King
12-17-2011, 08:23 AM
Wish we had found a way to trade #3 for maybe 15th overall... we would still got Tyson Jackson... and he'd be WAY less wealthy.

And much less hated.

seamonster
12-17-2011, 08:55 AM
I still say Orakpo was the perfect fit that year.

Think of our defense with Hali and Orakpo the last 3 years...

orakpo is terrible. He seems to have the same one pass-rushing move all offensive lines have scoped out, he's henious at the run, and when he's unfortunatley dropping into some type of coverage it always ends in bad things happening. He's probably one of the most overrated players I've ever seen. And unlike Hali he's not forcing many holding calls because of how generic his skill-set is. People just let him speed around the pocket or stonewall him at the line.

BossChief
12-17-2011, 09:02 AM
orakpo is terrible. He seems to have the same one pass-rushing move all offensive lines have scoped out, he's henious at the run, and when he's unfortunatley dropping into some type of coverage it always ends in bad things happening. He's probably one of the most overrated players I've ever seen. And unlike Hali he's not forcing many holding calls because of how generic his skill-set is. People just let him speed around the pocket or stonewall him at the line.

haha coalition poster, I presume.

I have probably watched 10 games or Washington this year because one of my friends always comes over to use my second tv.

About everything you just said is straight up foolish and silly.

beach tribe
12-17-2011, 09:04 AM
Who the hell is Sean Lissemore?

Jackson has unquestionably imporved his play this year, which is good, but I would say that he isn't playing at Shaun Smith's 2010 level right now, either.

He's actually playing better. Maybe if he grabbed few nutsax people would notice.

NJChiefsFan
12-17-2011, 01:50 PM
And much less hated.

For sure. This fanbase had been killed enough by high DL busts. Once Jackson didn't produce right away, he didn't have a chance. Add to that BJ Raji, at a position people wanted, having a great start to his career.

Not that Jackson really deserved credit for anything at all after year 1. He certainly has gotten better, which happens often with D-linemen.

Count Zarth
12-17-2011, 04:39 PM
orakpo is terrible. He seems to have the same one pass-rushing move all offensive lines have scoped out, he's henious at the run, and when he's unfortunatley dropping into some type of coverage it always ends in bad things happening. He's probably one of the most overrated players I've ever seen. And unlike Hali he's not forcing many holding calls because of how generic his skill-set is. People just let him speed around the pocket or stonewall him at the line.

He has more pressures this season than Hali.

Chocolate Hog
12-17-2011, 05:03 PM
I'm cool with Hali/Houston. The one mistake we must address from 2009 is QB.

CrazyHorse
12-17-2011, 05:12 PM
Wish we had found a way to trade #3 for maybe 15th overall... we would still got Tyson Jackson... and he'd be WAY less wealthy.

Hunt put about 40 million of the cap in his own pocket. Your upset it wasnt more?

CrazyHorse
12-17-2011, 05:14 PM
He has more pressures this season than Hali.

Eric Hicks lead the league in pressures once upon a time. Besides Hali had a lot of pressures this season.

Count Zarth
12-17-2011, 05:16 PM
Eric Hicks lead the league in pressures once upon a time. Besides Hali had a lot of pressures this season.

Orakpo has been a good player for three seasons now. He's not Eric Hicks.

CrazyHorse
12-17-2011, 05:19 PM
Orakpo has been a good player for three seasons now. He's not Eric Hicks.

Cant argue the point. I never hear much about him. Other than being dumb as a bag of hammers. However, I have heard of Hali and he's no Hali.

Dave Lane
12-17-2011, 05:23 PM
and every single pick in the 1st round for that draft would still have been a better pick. TJ is like the only bust, seriously. But he has improved, maybe there's a chance...

Not sure if my sacasometer is out of whack..

Frankie
12-17-2011, 05:30 PM
Wish we had found a way to trade #3 for maybe 15th overall... we would still got Tyson Jackson... and he'd be WAY less wealthy.Straight up?!!! :eek:

Cant argue the point. I never hear much about him. Other than being dumb as a bag of hammers. However, I have heard of Hali and he's no Hali.Well he's smarter than the Neanderthal guy in that TV commercial.

ChiefsandO'sfan
02-13-2012, 02:31 PM
Chiefs DE Tyson Jackson has earned $5.5 million in playing-time incentives, bringing his 2012 salary to $8.005 million.Jackson's playing-time bonus was easily the most among NFL players this year. Teammate Glenn Dorsey's base salary has increased from $4.356 million to $5.856 million while LT Branden Albert saw his salary jump from $1.03 million to $2.7175 million. Jackson finally came close to playing up to his draft status in 2011, excelling against the run. His Chiefs career hits a crossroads next offseason now that incentives have pushed his 2013 salary to $14.72 million. Feb 7 - 7:54 PM

SuperChief
02-13-2012, 02:33 PM
Chiefs DE Tyson Jackson has earned $5.5 million in playing-time incentives, bringing his 2012 salary to $8.005 million.Jackson's playing-time bonus was easily the most among NFL players this year. Teammate Glenn Dorsey's base salary has increased from $4.356 million to $5.856 million while LT Branden Albert saw his salary jump from $1.03 million to $2.7175 million. Jackson finally came close to playing up to his draft status in 2011, excelling against the run. His Chiefs career hits a crossroads next offseason now that incentives have pushed his 2013 salary to $14.72 million. Feb 7 - 7:54 PM

Wow. That's a LOT of money. I know he's been stepping it up, but he's going to have to have an incredible year next year to earn a similar contract. Restructuring FTW.

Chocolate Hog
02-13-2012, 02:33 PM
So that's the reason we won't be spending much on free agents.

KCrockaholic
02-13-2012, 02:36 PM
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/2/12/2792058/breaking-down-the-chiefs-tyson-jackson

Terrific "article" on Tyson Jackson. I'm sick of the know-nothing fans and KC media who still thinks Jackson was underachieving this year. Yeah it sucks that we spent the #3 overall on a 5-tech. But in 2011 he did his job, and he did very well.

Saul Good
02-13-2012, 02:48 PM
If we had drafted Rodgers instead of DJ, T-Jax would be dancing in a State Farm commercial.

chiefzilla1501
02-13-2012, 03:40 PM
Chiefs DE Tyson Jackson has earned $5.5 million in playing-time incentives, bringing his 2012 salary to $8.005 million.Jackson's playing-time bonus was easily the most among NFL players this year. Teammate Glenn Dorsey's base salary has increased from $4.356 million to $5.856 million while LT Branden Albert saw his salary jump from $1.03 million to $2.7175 million. Jackson finally came close to playing up to his draft status in 2011, excelling against the run. His Chiefs career hits a crossroads next offseason now that incentives have pushed his 2013 salary to $14.72 million. Feb 7 - 7:54 PM

No, it doesn't hit a crossroads. They'll restructure that. You don't put that kind of roster bonus jump in your contract and expect to actually pay it. The Chiefs will probably decide to extend him and convert that into a roster bonus.

Jackson knows he has no leverage. It's not like he can walk into the open market and get paid a salary near that close. If Jackson refuses to relent, the Chiefs can just cut him.

talastan
02-13-2012, 03:42 PM
Chiefs DE Tyson Jackson has earned $5.5 million in playing-time incentives, bringing his 2012 salary to $8.005 million.Jackson's playing-time bonus was easily the most among NFL players this year. Teammate Glenn Dorsey's base salary has increased from $4.356 million to $5.856 million while LT Branden Albert saw his salary jump from $1.03 million to $2.7175 million. Jackson finally came close to playing up to his draft status in 2011, excelling against the run. His Chiefs career hits a crossroads next offseason now that incentives have pushed his 2013 salary to $14.72 million. Feb 7 - 7:54 PM

I actually expect them to put Dorsey on the market and see what we can get for him in the way of 2013 draft picks. Especially with Gilberry and Bailey waiting in the wings.

ChiefsandO'sfan
02-13-2012, 04:02 PM
I actually expect them to put Dorsey on the market and see what we can get for him in the way of 2013 draft picks. Especially with Gilberry and Bailey waiting in the wings.


Gilberry is gone this offseason he is a UFA

suzzer99
02-13-2012, 04:06 PM
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/2/12/2792058/breaking-down-the-chiefs-tyson-jackson

Terrific "article" on Tyson Jackson. I'm sick of the know-nothing fans and KC media who still thinks Jackson was underachieving this year. Yeah it sucks that we spent the #3 overall on a 5-tech. But in 2011 he did his job, and he did very well.

Which is pretty much exactly what Pioli said when he drafted Jackson and compared him to Russel Maryland (multiple SBs coming of course).

Xanathol
02-14-2012, 12:33 AM
3-4 DEs are suppose to make tackles in the run game, period. Too many folks get lost seeing a hybrid 3-4 ( like Wade Phillips ran in Dallas ) and except to see sacks like a 4-3 DT.

Per NFL.com, among all defensive linemen:

7. Glenn Dorsey @ 62 tackles
15. Tyson Jackson @ 55 tackles

Speaks for itself. Its not flashy but its exactly what they are asked to do, and they do it really, really well.

BigRock
02-14-2012, 12:43 AM
Just an FYI, there was a thing on NFL Network the other day that specifically credited Pro Football Focus for their player evaluations. Guess they've arrived.

Mr_Tomahawk
02-17-2012, 12:37 PM
wrong thread*