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View Full Version : Chiefs I owe Kyle Orton an apology...


htismaqe
12-18-2011, 02:42 PM
and quite a few people here should be doling them out as well... :)

Leonard Pope? Big catches. Barry Richardson? Nice job.

Same cast of characters, same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)...

Yet Orton has 300 yards passing in a game where we led the entire way.

Yeah, I wanted to see Stanzi play and I still do.

But thank you Kyle Orton for making it ABUNDANTLY clear how much of a waste Matt Cassel is...

jd1020
12-18-2011, 02:43 PM
Yet Orton has 300 yards passing in a game where we led the entire way.

Now you went too far.

Tribal Warfare
12-18-2011, 02:43 PM
Hence, why I stated that signing Orton could signal the end of the Cassel era in KC.

Deberg_1990
12-18-2011, 02:43 PM
It was refreshing to see decent QB play. Looking off defenders, 2nd and 3rd options.......decisive, quick release......good job Orton, you made Richardson look outstanding today.

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 02:43 PM
Cassel just sucks that bad
~everyone but Pioli knows this now

Bowser
12-18-2011, 02:45 PM
299 yards is like two and a half games for Cassel. Get him off the roster.

Chiefnj2
12-18-2011, 02:46 PM
Orton and the entire team (except for short yardage OL run game) did a very good job. Just remember the old adage - don't get too excited over any 1 game, and don't get too down over any 1 game.

Douche Baggins
12-18-2011, 02:46 PM
But he can only play well with McDaniels as his coach.

SenselessChiefsfan says so.

Only McDaniels has the magic touch.

PGM
12-18-2011, 02:46 PM
KnowMo was right all along about the guy :):):):):):):):)

kstater
12-18-2011, 02:47 PM
What pisses me off is Haley running Palko out there for 4 games out of spite.

memyselfI
12-18-2011, 02:47 PM
So do I. I have never liked him and was pretty peeved when they picked him up. Great first game. Let's see if he can overcome his 'moody' reputation and become a good consistent solid QB which has eluded him to date. I remain skeptical but for today, I'm convinced.

Extra Point
12-18-2011, 02:47 PM
Thought we could, then thought we couldn't. Orton makes a big diff, and the absence of a loose cannon HC that micromanaged and hamstrung the offense.

Huffman83
12-18-2011, 02:47 PM
What sucks is if KC wins the rest of the games this year, goes into the pre-season and Orton is clearly the better player than Cassel in pre[season and they STILL play Cassel.

Fruit Ninja
12-18-2011, 02:47 PM
lol We just now know without any doubt at all that Cassel was the problem. Im not sure everyone was 100 percent convinced on that, but now there should be no doubt.

burt
12-18-2011, 02:48 PM
What pisses me off is Haley running Palko out there for 4 games out of spite.

he was sucking for luck, or Griffin

Rams Fan
12-18-2011, 02:48 PM
So do I. I have never liked him and was pretty peeved when they picked him up. Great first game. Let's see if he can overcome his 'moody' reputation and become a good consistent solid QB which has eluded him to date. I remain skeptical but for today, I'm convinced.

Let's see if you'll realize that Haley wasn't the big problem.

Guru
12-18-2011, 02:49 PM
we were down 7-6

tk13
12-18-2011, 02:50 PM
Orton can sling it around. I forget the exact stat... but when we claimed him they had a stat on ESPN about how Orton was literally one of the league's top QBs throwing beyond 15 yards.

The flipside is he forces things sometimes, and he struggles in the red zone sometimes as well. But he absolutely can make all the NFL throws, and I'm not sure he's ever played with a group of WRs this talented.

The Bad Guy
12-18-2011, 02:51 PM
Hence, why I stated that signing Orton could signal the end of the Cassel era in KC.

Shocker, TW tries to make another thread about his pretend genius.

You're right 99 times out of 100. Congrats on that 1%

Rams Fan
12-18-2011, 02:52 PM
Shocker, TW tries to make another thread about his pretend genius.

You're right 99 times out of 100. Congrats on that 1%

He is the 1%.

milkman
12-18-2011, 02:53 PM
What we saw today is that even just a mediocre QB who can make reads and deliver the ball accurately and on time, and whose arm strength has to be respected by the defense, can improve the play of those around him.

Except in short yardage situations, the OL opened holes for the running game, and in pass protect, Orton had all day to throw.

And these receivers caught damn near everything.

Imagine what it would be like with a better than mediocre QB.

memyselfI
12-18-2011, 02:53 PM
Let's see if you'll realize that Haley wasn't the big problem.

He was the big problem. He was NOT, however, the ONLY problem.

teedubya
12-18-2011, 02:53 PM
Orton can stay in KC as long as he wants, IMO. Remember this... he is playing with a fucked up throwing hand!

I was very impressed with him. Great game. It is only ONE game, but I was NEVER this encouraged with Casshole.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 02:54 PM
and quite a few people here should be doling them out as well... :)

Leonard Pope? Big catches. Barry Richardson? Nice job.

Same cast of characters, same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)...

Yet Orton has 300 yards passing in a game where we led the entire way.

Yeah, I wanted to see Stanzi play and I still do.

But thank you Kyle Orton for making it ABUNDANTLY clear how much of a waste Matt Cassel is...

Of course. Same everything. I mean, other than the head coach, but that made no difference.

I will say that Orton played well. And, I am glad the Chiefs have more options at QB going into next year.

But, to say the situation is the same is foolish.

Rams Fan
12-18-2011, 02:55 PM
He was the big problem. He was NOT, however, the ONLY problem.

LMAO ROFL

Haley's a fucking coach. He can only do so much with the talent he is given. He isn't Tim Tebow who can part the red fucking sea.

Pioli didn't supply him with a QB capable of winning consistently in the NFL.

mnchiefsguy
12-18-2011, 02:56 PM
What pisses me off is Haley running Palko out there for 4 games out of spite.

Amen brother. If Orton plays, we beat the Steelers, and who knows what else happens from there? Haley completely fucked the entire season beyond all hope with his playing of Palko.

Three7s
12-18-2011, 02:56 PM
What we saw today is that even just a mediocre QB who can make reads and deliver the ball accurately and on time, and whose arm strength has to be respected by the defense, can improve the play of those around him.

Except in short yardage situations, the OL opened holes for the running game, and in pass protect, Orton had all day to throw.

And these receivers caught damn near everything.

Imagine what it would be like with a better than mediocre QB.
So, basically, Orton was similar to Trent Green?

dirk digler
12-18-2011, 02:57 PM
Orton played a great game no doubt but let's remember they were playing one if not the worst D in the NFL. Let's see what he does the next couple of weeks.

FringeNC
12-18-2011, 02:57 PM
After watching a competent QB like Orton, not only is Cassel not a legit starter, he isn't even a good backup QB.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 02:57 PM
He was the big problem. He was NOT, however, the ONLY problem.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. No surprise.

Chiefnj2
12-18-2011, 02:58 PM
Wrong, wrong, wrong. No surprise.

Are you serious?

Straight, No Chaser
12-18-2011, 02:58 PM
Orton and the entire team (except for short yardage OL run game) did a very good job. Just remember the old adage - don't get too excited over any 1 game, and don't get too down over any 1 game.

This.

Orton was still 0- whatever in the red zone...

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 02:59 PM
Of course. Same everything. I mean, other than the head coach, but that made no difference.

I will say that Orton played well. And, I am glad the Chiefs have more options at QB going into next year.

But, to say the situation is the same is foolish.

ROFL

You just can't handle the truth, can you?

The simple fact is that if Haley wasn't such a baby, intent on spiting Pioli by starting Palko, this argument would have been over 3 weeks ago.

You should thank Haley because he gave you an extra 3 games to wiggle your way out of your ridiculous defenses of Cassel.

Instead you choose to die on that hill. Good luck with that.

KC Tattoo
12-18-2011, 02:59 PM
As long as we draft a QBotf and have an open fair compitition going into the next season I'm ok with it. I would have much rather seen Stanzi play but that's not looking like it will happen this season.

Yea for the victory and us not sucking today.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:00 PM
Are you serious?

Do you HONESTLY think we arrive at a scenario where we have 4 yards of offense in a half and the coach gets fired if we didn't already suffer through 2 seasons of Matt Cassel?

Get fucking real. Cassel has been THE issue with this team since the first time he suited up.

milkman
12-18-2011, 03:00 PM
Orton played a great game no doubt but let's remember they were playing one if not the worst D in the NFL. Let's see what he does the next couple of weeks.

When has Cassel played a good game without Jamaal Charles, even against poor defenses?

Coogs
12-18-2011, 03:01 PM
This.

Orton was still 0- whatever in the red zone...

In defense of the receivers, they are not use to having the ball thrown to them down there. Caught them totally off guard. [/sarcasm off]

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 03:01 PM
WOW
Orton was magicly healthy & Haley didn't start him out of spite
Did not know that

Coogs
12-18-2011, 03:02 PM
and quite a few people here should be doling them out as well... :)

Leonard Pope? Big catches. Barry Richardson? Nice job.

Same cast of characters, same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)...

Yet Orton has 300 yards passing in a game where we led the entire way.

Yeah, I wanted to see Stanzi play and I still do.

But thank you Kyle Orton for making it ABUNDANTLY clear how much of a waste Matt Cassel is...


:clap: Nice post!

BIG_DADDY
12-18-2011, 03:03 PM
Orton was a HUGE upgrade. I never thought I would say that about him in his career. LMAO

dirk digler
12-18-2011, 03:04 PM
When has Cassel played a good game without Jamaal Charles, even against poor defenses?

Don't know don't care Cassel sucks and should be gone. I am just not ready to heap alot of praise on Orton when they were playing a pretty bad D.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:04 PM
When has Cassel played a good game without Jamaal Charles, even against poor defenses?

@SD
Minnesota
@Indy.

All better games this year, without Charles and saddled with Haley on the sideline.

Orton didn't throw a TD.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of anyones opinion.

trndobrd
12-18-2011, 03:05 PM
Same cast of characters, same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)...




The screens, reverse to Breston, and sweeps were rarely seen under Haley. More importantly, the plays were in to the QB in time for him to get on the line and make adjustments, the plays that were called were not entirely predictable (throwing on 1st down, going for long ball on 2nd and short*, sweep on middle distance).

*long pass play possible w/ a QB who can throw for 20+ yards.

grandllama
12-18-2011, 03:05 PM
...But thank you Kyle Orton for making it ABUNDANTLY clear how much of a waste Matt Cassel is...

As much as I hate 'THIS!' posts, um, well, 'THIS!'

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:06 PM
Don't know don't care Cassel sucks and should be gone. I am just not ready to heap alot of praise on Orton when they were playing a pretty bad D.

It will be interesting to see how he fares against the Broncos and Raiders.

Orton has a real chance to make a great impression on Chiefs fans. He got to go against the Packers weak defense. Then, he will get to go against two teams he should know very, very well.

Rams Fan
12-18-2011, 03:06 PM
@SD
Minnesota
@Indy.

All better games this year, without Charles and saddled with Haley on the sideline.

Orton didn't throw a TD.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of anyones opinion.

The Colts have one win.
Minnesota has 2 wins.
San Diego is under .500.

FringeNC
12-18-2011, 03:06 PM
@SD
Minnesota
@Indy.

All better games this year, without Charles and saddled with Haley on the sideline.

Orton didn't throw a TD.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of anyones opinion.

You're insane if you claim Cassel's game against SD was better than Orton today. Insane.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:07 PM
The screens, reverse to Breston, and sweeps were rarely seen under Haley. More importantly, the plays were in to the QB in time for him to get on the line and make adjustments, the plays that were called were not entirely predictable (throwing on 1st down, going for long ball on 2nd and short*, sweep on middle distance).

*long pass play possible w/ a QB who can throw for 20+ yards.

Oh, those things don't matter. Come on man. It was all Cassel. The fact that they called a better game and got the plays in on time.... no impact on the game.

Coogs
12-18-2011, 03:07 PM
Don't know don't care Cassel sucks and should be gone. I am just not ready to heap alot of praise on Orton when they were playing a pretty bad D.

I somewhat agree, but none the less... Packers score and go up 7-6. Penalty on the kickoff pins us at the 10. Before today, that is probably game over, especially against a good team. Orton leads us down the field to reclaim the lead at 9-6. Huge series! :clap:

grandllama
12-18-2011, 03:08 PM
Orton didn't throw a TD.

I'll take 299 yards, no TD's and a win over 103 yards, 3 TD's and a loss...

eh, that probably doesn't make my point. The point being that the receivers jobs were made easier and YAC wasn't as much of a REQUIREMENT that it is when the pass leaves Cassel's hands...

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:08 PM
The Colts have one win.
Minnesota has 2 wins.
San Diego is under .500.

Yes. Just pointing out games that Cassel had against similar defenses.

KCBOSS1
12-18-2011, 03:08 PM
If Orton plays out the rest of the season like he did today, he deserves the starting job hands down with no concern for "competition". I wasn't an Orton supporter but after not having a real quarterback in this offense since Trent Green, the potential of this team looks completely different with him in there. I believe a win like this could absolutely bond players with coach, with quarterback. If he continues like he did today, we should not draft a QB first round, he shouldn't have to look over his shoulder. The job should be completely his. If a highly ranked qb falls to a lower round, that's different.

Rams Fan
12-18-2011, 03:08 PM
Oh, those things don't matter. Come on man. It was all Cassel. The fact that they called a better game and got the plays in on time.... no impact on the game.

Get this through your head.

Cassel is, has and will always be shit.

Baby Lee
12-18-2011, 03:09 PM
Orton was a HUGE upgrade. I never thought I would say that about him in his career. LMAO

There aren't a lot of places where he'd be such an enormous upgrade.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:09 PM
The screens, reverse to Breston, and sweeps were rarely seen under Haley. More importantly, the plays were in to the QB in time for him to get on the line and make adjustments, the plays that were called were not entirely predictable (throwing on 1st down, going for long ball on 2nd and short*, sweep on middle distance).

*long pass play possible w/ a QB who can throw for 20+ yards.

What?

We've setup that reverse MULTIPLE times this season. That misdirection play has been in this offense since the day Haley arrived.

Do you guys even watch the games?

I guess the delayed draw to McCluster up the middle was new too right?

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:10 PM
@SD
Minnesota
@Indy.

All better games this year, without Charles and saddled with Haley on the sideline.

Orton didn't throw a TD.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of anyones opinion.

I was at the Minnesota game and watched every play.

You have no idea what you're talking about. None.

dirk digler
12-18-2011, 03:11 PM
I somewhat agree, but none the less... Packers score and go up 7-6. Penalty on the kickoff pins us at the 10. Before today, that is probably game over, especially against a good team. Orton leads us down the field to reclaim the lead at 9-6. Huge series! :clap:

I agree and I am not trying to take away anything from Orton he played a fucking great game today. I think it is now obvious the main problems with this team is\was Cassel and Haley

Monty
12-18-2011, 03:11 PM
You're insane if you claim Cassel's game against SD was better than Orton today. Insane.

Triple Dog This!

Once the receivers adjust to having someone competent of running an NFL offense, you'll see more TDs. You have to walk before you run, but today was on hell of a great start! I'll enjoy the win today, and we'll see how things play out next week.

But for now..... :toast:

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:11 PM
Oh, those things don't matter. Come on man. It was all Cassel. The fact that they called a better game and got the plays in on time.... no impact on the game.

It's the same offense. They didn't change the offense.

And they've been getting the plays in on time since the FIRST TIME Palko started.

You only see what you want to see, it's pretty clear.

Douche Baggins
12-18-2011, 03:12 PM
Only senseless Chiefs fan would point to a game where Cassel led to us 30 yards of offense in one half as a good one (@SD).

Deberg_1990
12-18-2011, 03:12 PM
Execution trumps playcalling everytime. Play calling is too often blamed by fans.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:12 PM
Orton did a very good job given the short time that he had to work with this team.

I really don't want to take away from what he did. Congrats to Orton.

Rams Fan
12-18-2011, 03:12 PM
Execution trumps playcalling everytime. Play calling is too often blamed by fans.

This.

This x100.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:13 PM
I was at the Minnesota game and watched every play.

You have no idea what you're talking about. None.

Once again, perception isn't reality. It happens a lot around here.

scho63
12-18-2011, 03:13 PM
Like Winston Wolf said, "Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet."

O.city
12-18-2011, 03:14 PM
Isn't Cassel the worst rated qb in the NFl over the last 3 years who has thrown more than 1000 passes?

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:14 PM
Once again, perception isn't reality. It happens a lot around here.

OK, so you're basically calling me a liar.

Got it.

BCD
12-18-2011, 03:14 PM
Oh, those things don't matter. Come on man. It was all Cassel. The fact that they called a better game and got the plays in on time.... no impact on the game.

You are a fucking dumbass. Cassel sucks.

There was still some shitty play selections.

If you cannot tell that Orton was better than Cassel in every way, then you are just plain dumb.

dirk digler
12-18-2011, 03:16 PM
It's the same offense. They didn't change the offense.

And they've been getting the plays in on time since the FIRST TIME Palko started.

You only see what you want to see, it's pretty clear.

They had to have changed some of the offense we never ran that many deep routes before today :D

BCD
12-18-2011, 03:16 PM
Like Winston Wolf said, "Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet."

STFU

We are arguing Orton vs Cassel, dumbass.

mcan
12-18-2011, 03:17 PM
and quite a few people here should be doling them out as well... :)

Leonard Pope? Big catches. Barry Richardson? Nice job.

Same cast of characters, same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)...

Yet Orton has 300 yards passing in a game where we led the entire way.

Yeah, I wanted to see Stanzi play and I still do.

But thank you Kyle Orton for making it ABUNDANTLY clear how much of a waste Matt Cassel is...



Orton played a great game and is clearly an upgrade over Cassel. But the biggest difference out there today was the way the offense was set up. We ran screens with O-linemen lead blocking against blitzes, giving our guys space 4 times today (three of them were successful). We haven't done that ALL YEAR. Not once, did we throw a shitty bobble screen to a wr, and just hope that the slot could make a block against a corner in press coverage. We only threw the wr screen twice, but NEVER relied on that low percentage block. We just took it when their guys were playing off. We also better utilized our TEs and got them up the seems against zone defenses and used the deep middle part of the field. By doing so, we were able to neutralize the opponents blitzes and make them play honestly (instead of going max protect and trying to BLOCK 7 and 8 man blitzes). our offensive line ran TRAPS today, on a lot of runs that weren't counters. We also actually PITCHED the ball a few times, instead of just running stretches, which gave our running backs a chance to use efficient footwork to catch the corner, instead of making them footRACE to the sideline. This offense looked like a professional offense, not just in execution but in preparation and style. It's VERY clear that Haley's system of offense was dragging everybody down, and now that the cancer has been removed, we can start actually evaluating what we have.

JCharles1981
12-18-2011, 03:17 PM
I am not putting my trust in Kyle Orton until I see what he does next year. Having him start the last 3 games of this season isn't enough for me to make a judgment call on whether or not he can spark a fire into the Chiefs' offense. Remember how excited many of us were when Dick Vermeil became the Head Coach during the first half of the last decade, and then were bummed when we only made it to the playoffs once in the 5 years he was with us? Don't cross your fingers just yet.

Douche Baggins
12-18-2011, 03:17 PM
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/388475_310012739021644_116476271708626_1065683_179215158_n.jpg

jd1020
12-18-2011, 03:18 PM
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/388475_310012739021644_116476271708626_1065683_179215158_n.jpg

LMAO

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:18 PM
You are a ****ing dumbass. Cassel sucks.

There was still some shitty play selections.

If you cannot tell that Orton was better than Cassel in every way, then you are just plain dumb.

I wish Haley was still here, so that we could actually judge Orton in the same situation.

I have said ALL along, for a long time, that Cassel is average, Haley makes him and the entire offense less than average.

Either way, Crennel got more out of this team than Haley did all season.

I wanted Haley gone. I am fine with Cassel leaving. I just don't think that Orton is any better.

Douche Baggins
12-18-2011, 03:19 PM
I just don't think that Orton is any better.

You said he couldn't replicate what he did in Denver without McDaniels.

Today he played EXACTLY like he did in Denver last season.

milkman
12-18-2011, 03:20 PM
@SD
Minnesota
@Indy.

All better games this year, without Charles and saddled with Haley on the sideline.

Orton didn't throw a TD.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of anyones opinion.

His numbers in those games are comparable, but he was crap in the first half against both Indy, the worst team in the league, and against Minnesota.

He threw for more TDs, but most were the result of the receivers making great efforts on YAC.

One was piss poor throw that Bowe made a play on and ran through the defense.

Orton's throws were delivered accurately and on time.

Not once has Cassel been able to do that.

BCD
12-18-2011, 03:20 PM
Once again, perception isn't reality. It happens a lot around here.

Senseless Chiefs fan is fucking senseless

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:20 PM
Orton played a great game and is clearly an upgrade over Cassel. But the biggest difference out there today was the way the offense was set up. We ran screens with O-linemen lead blocking against blitzes, giving our guys space 4 times today (three of them were successful). We haven't done that ALL YEAR. Not once, did we throw a shitty bobble screen to a wr, and just hope that the slot could make a block against a corner in press coverage. We only threw the wr screen twice, but NEVER relied on that low percentage block. We just took it when their guys were playing off. We also better utilized our TEs and got them up the seems against zone defenses and used the deep middle part of the field. By doing so, we were able to neutralize the opponents blitzes and make them play honestly (instead of going max protect and trying to BLOCK 7 and 8 man blitzes). our offensive line ran TRAPS today, on a lot of runs that weren't counters. We also actually PITCHED the ball a few times, instead of just running stretches, which gave our running backs a chance to use efficient footwork to catch the corner, instead of making them footRACE to the sideline. This offense looked like a professional offense, not just in execution but in preparation and style. It's VERY clear that Haley's system of offense was dragging everybody down, and now that the cancer has been removed, we can start actually evaluating what we have.

All good points.

dirk digler
12-18-2011, 03:21 PM
I wish Haley was still here, so that we could actually judge Orton in the same situation.

I have said ALL along, for a long time, that Cassel is average, Haley makes him and the entire offense less than average.

Either way, Crennel got more out of this team than Haley did all season.

I wanted Haley gone. I am fine with Cassel leaving. I just don't think that Orton is any better.

I agree with pretty much everything you said here except your last sentence. Orton is so much better than Cassel it is not even close

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:23 PM
We ran screens with O-linemen lead blocking against blitzes, giving our guys space 4 times today (three of them were successful). We haven't done that ALL YEAR.

I mentioned it in another thread - the first screen to McClain was almost identical to the one we ran in the gold zone against Minnesota, which ended with Cassel throwing it into the dirt. Sorry but we HAVE done it, several times. Cassel just can't execute.

Not once, did we throw a shitty bobble screen to a wr, and just hope that the slot could make a block against a corner in press coverage. We only threw the wr screen twice, but NEVER relied on that low percentage block. We just took it when their guys were playing off.

You do realize that those plays rely on a pre-snap read by the QB, right? So the reason we did it today when they played off was BECAUSE OF ORTON.

jd1020
12-18-2011, 03:23 PM
I wish Haley was still here, so that we could actually judge Orton in the same situation.

I have said ALL along, for a long time, that Cassel is average, Haley makes him and the entire offense less than average.

Either way, Crennel got more out of this team than Haley did all season.

I wanted Haley gone. I am fine with Cassel leaving. I just don't think that Orton is any better.

I wish you left with Haley.

baitism
12-18-2011, 03:24 PM
Yes, statistically GB has a bad defense because teams are always passing because they are playing from behind. Don't kid yourself into thinking they are actually one of the worst in the league. Stats can lie.

scho63
12-18-2011, 03:24 PM
STFU

We are arguing Orton vs Cassel, dumbass.

So far he looks great but one game is still one game. If he throws 4 INTS next week everyone will swing back the other way.

He definitely throws a stronger ball than Cassel

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 03:24 PM
same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)...

bullshit ... playcalling was nothing like it has been

did we run a DMC draw at all?

our redzone playcalling sucked but other than that Muir > Haley

Coogs
12-18-2011, 03:24 PM
I am not putting my trust in Kyle Orton until I see what he does next year. Having him start the last 3 games of this season isn't enough for me to make a judgment call on whether or not he can spark a fire into the Chiefs' offense. Remember how excited many of us were when Dick Vermeil became the Head Coach during the first half of the last decade, and then were bummed when we only made it to the playoffs once in the 5 years he was with us? Don't cross your fingers just yet.

3 games are going to be all you get. Orton's contract is up at the end of the season. Either you resign him or don't based off of 3 games. Game 1 goes in favor of Orton.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:25 PM
His numbers in those games are comparable, but he was crap in the first half against both Indy, the worst team in the league, and against Minnesota.

He threw for more TDs, but most were the result of the receivers making great efforts on YAC.

One was piss poor throw that Bowe made a play on and ran through the defense.

Orton's throws were delivered accurately and on time.

Not once has Cassel been able to do that.

The offense was actually quite a bit different. It allowed the QB to have more time and give the WR's more time to get open.

I am kind of sick of arguing.

Cassel isn't great, he just isn't as bad as the guys on here think.

And, forgive me for not wanting to change my opinion of Orton after one game against a bad defense.

I have seen Orton for five years. One year doesn't completely change history.

Rams Fan
12-18-2011, 03:25 PM
So far he looks great but one game is still one game. If he throws 4 INTS next week everyone will swing back the other way.

He definitely throws a stronger ball than Cassel

:facepalm:

Orton is and will always be better than Cassel.

Buckweath
12-18-2011, 03:26 PM
If Orton plays out the rest of the season like he did today, he deserves the starting job hands down with no concern for "competition". I wasn't an Orton supporter but after not having a real quarterback in this offense since Trent Green, the potential of this team looks completely different with him in there. I believe a win like this could absolutely bond players with coach, with quarterback. If he continues like he did today, we should not draft a QB first round, he shouldn't have to look over his shoulder. The job should be completely his. If a highly ranked qb falls to a lower round, that's different.

TERRIBLE FAIL!!!!

Orton is an average to below average QB. One thing is for sure, he is not good enough to lead this team to a Superbowl.

milkman
12-18-2011, 03:26 PM
Orton played a great game and is clearly an upgrade over Cassel. But the biggest difference out there today was the way the offense was set up. We ran screens with O-linemen lead blocking against blitzes, giving our guys space 4 times today (three of them were successful). We haven't done that ALL YEAR. Not once, did we throw a shitty bobble screen to a wr, and just hope that the slot could make a block against a corner in press coverage. We only threw the wr screen twice, but NEVER relied on that low percentage block. We just took it when their guys were playing off. We also better utilized our TEs and got them up the seems against zone defenses and used the deep middle part of the field. By doing so, we were able to neutralize the opponents blitzes and make them play honestly (instead of going max protect and trying to BLOCK 7 and 8 man blitzes). our offensive line ran TRAPS today, on a lot of runs that weren't counters. We also actually PITCHED the ball a few times, instead of just running stretches, which gave our running backs a chance to use efficient footwork to catch the corner, instead of making them footRACE to the sideline. This offense looked like a professional offense, not just in execution but in preparation and style. It's VERY clear that Haley's system of offense was dragging everybody down, and now that the cancer has been removed, we can start actually evaluating what we have.

Screens were successful today because the Pack defense had to actually respect Orton's ability to hit the deep balls, including the seam routes over the middle.

The Pack couldn't just line up everyone within 10 yards of the LOS and dare the QB to beat 'em deep.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:26 PM
bullshit ... playcalling was nothing like it has been

did we run a DMC draw at all?

our redzone playcalling sucked but other than that Muir > Haley

The mere fact that the playcalls actually got in to the QB on time and they weren't bickering about which run between the tackles was better was 100x better than Haley on the sideline.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:27 PM
The offense was actually quite a bit different. It allowed the QB to have more time and give the WR's more time to get open.

ROFL

I am kind of sick of arguing.

Translation: I'm looking for way out of this but I can't find one that allows me to exit and not look like a fool.
I have seen Orton for five years. One year doesn't completely change history.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:28 PM
The mere fact that the playcalls actually got in to the QB on time and they weren't bickering about which run between the tackles was better was 100x better than Haley on the sideline.

Nevermind the fact that it only happened like three times since the instant Cassel went down.

Damn that Todd Haley!

milkman
12-18-2011, 03:28 PM
bullshit ... playcalling was nothing like it has been

did we run a DMC draw at all?

our redzone playcalling sucked but other than that Muir > Haley

Yes, we did run a DMC draw, twice.

The fact that Orton can actually play the QB position had the effect of taking that play out the game as much as it did.

Rams Fan
12-18-2011, 03:29 PM
Pioli got what he fucking wanted.

Some people are buying into him making Haley the scapegoat.

mcan
12-18-2011, 03:32 PM
Screens were successful today because the Pack defense had to actually respect Orton's ability to hit the deep balls, including the seam routes over the middle.

The Pack couldn't just line up everyone within 10 yards of the LOS and dare the QB to beat 'em deep.

you didn't see the same game as me. The screens were successful because the Packers saw on film that we couldn't block the blitz, and that we ALWAYS went max protect. So they came out in the first half firing their linebackers around the ends and into the gaps. Orton took a few shots. But instead of trying to block it, we leaked our running backs into the flats and had our o-line sneak out as lead blockers. Later in the game, they HAD to stop blitzing and cover our backs out of the flat. The last screen we attempted was AFTER the Pack made this adjustment, and we ended up throwing for a 4 yard loss. But Orton had time in the pocket after that.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:33 PM
Yes, we did run a DMC draw, twice.

The fact that Orton can actually play the QB position had the effect of taking that play out the game as much as it did.

I can't believe we're even arguing this.

Our first punt was with 4 minutes LEFT IN THE FIRST HALF.

We didn't NEED to run the delay draw because we weren't ever in 3rd and long.

The difference today was abundantly clear for anybody that wanted to see it.

dirk digler
12-18-2011, 03:33 PM
Pioli got what he fucking wanted.

Some people are buying into him making Haley the scapegoat.

Haley was a big part of the problem with this team. This team has gotten blown out 5 games this season and that is a direct reflection of the head coach.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:34 PM
you didn't see the same game as me. The screens were successful because the Packers saw on film that we couldn't block the blitz, and that we ALWAYS went max protect. So they came out in the first half firing their linebackers around the ends and into the gaps. Orton took a few shots. But instead of trying to block it, we leaked our running backs into the flats and had our o-line sneak out as lead blockers. Later in the game, they HAD to stop blitzing and cover our backs out of the flat. The last screen we attempted was AFTER the Pack made this adjustment, and we ended up throwing for a 4 yard loss. But Orton had time in the pocket after that.

The first screen to McClain was the SAME screen we ran against Minnesota.

Orton found his 2nd read (McClain), Cassel grounded it.

Baby Lee
12-18-2011, 03:34 PM
The offense was actually quite a bit different. It allowed the QB to have more time and give the WR's more time to get open.

QBs have been open all year, Cassell couldn't find them. The cameras did though.

Rams Fan
12-18-2011, 03:34 PM
Haley was a big part of the problem with this team. This team has gotten blown out 5 games this season and that is a direct reflection of the head coach.

Or it could be due to execution.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:34 PM
Haley was a big part of the problem with this team. This team has gotten blown out 5 games this season and that is a direct reflection of the head coach.

He was being asked to prepare a team that had no real hope.

I'm fine with Haley being fired but if Cassel doesn't go with him, we've accomplished nothing.

milkman
12-18-2011, 03:36 PM
you didn't see the same game as me. The screens were successful because the Packers saw on film that we couldn't block the blitz, and that we ALWAYS went max protect. So they came out in the first half firing their linebackers around the ends and into the gaps. Orton took a few shots. But instead of trying to block it, we leaked our running backs into the flats and had our o-line sneak out as lead blockers. Later in the game, they HAD to stop blitzing and cover our backs out of the flat. The last screen we attempted was AFTER the Pack made this adjustment, and we ended up throwing for a 4 yard loss. But Orton had time in the pocket after that.

Have you seen how effective any screen we ran this year was prior to this game?

Or, I should say inefffective.

Even with the blitzes before today, the whole defense has been on the screens we've run before because the defense was already there.

A screen can't work against a defense that doesn't have anyone protecting the deep areas.

threebag02
12-18-2011, 03:36 PM
How nice was it for the CHIEFS to sustain drives through the air not just three and out.

dirk digler
12-18-2011, 03:37 PM
Or it could be due to execution.

Doesn' that fall back to the head coach not preparing his team?


I'm fine with Haley being fired but if Cassel doesn't go with him, we've accomplished nothing.

Totally agree 110%

mcan
12-18-2011, 03:37 PM
bullshit ... playcalling was nothing like it has been

did we run a DMC draw at all?

our redzone playcalling sucked but other than that Muir > Haley

We did run one DMC draw play. It was a stretch draw, and it got blown up in the backfield, as have most of our stretch draws, most of the year.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:38 PM
ROFL



Translation: I'm looking for way out of this but I can't find one that allows me to exit and not look like a fool.
I have seen Orton for five years. One year doesn't completely change history.

#1) Haley is gone. My point has always been that Haley sucks. He is gone.


I don't care if the Chiefs keep Orton or Cassel. I just didn't blame Cassel for Haley's ineffectiveness.

mcan
12-18-2011, 03:39 PM
The first screen to McClain was the SAME screen we ran against Minnesota.

Orton found his 2nd read (McClain), Cassel grounded it.

I'd have to see the tape. Looked like he had linemen out in front and it was pretty clearly designed to go to him. but I defer, since I'm going purely on memory alone.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:40 PM
Nevermind the fact that it only happened like three times since the instant Cassel went down.

Damn that Todd Haley!

It shoud never happen. Haley looks like such a fool today. He is lucky that Cassel got injured.

Cassel would have had similar success and then everyone would know it was all Haley.

But, at least now, some can try to argue that it was Cassel.

And, that isn't me thinking Cassel is great... it is me just realizing that Haley is awful.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:42 PM
It shoud never happen. Haley looks like such a fool today. He is lucky that Cassel got injured.

Cassel would have had similar success and then everyone would know it was all Haley.

But, at least now, some can try to argue that it was Cassel.

And, that isn't me thinking Cassel is great... it is me just realizing that Haley is awful.

ROFL

mcan
12-18-2011, 03:44 PM
Have you seen how effective any screen we ran this year was prior to this game?

Or, I should say inefffective.

Even with the blitzes before today, the whole defense has been on the screens we've run before because the defense was already there.

A screen can't work against a defense that doesn't have anyone protecting the deep areas.

There is some truth to that. But again, that's more about clearing out the safeties, which is done by designing decoy routes. It's not easy to do against 8 man fronts, because your guys don't have time to get down field before you have to release the ball. But overall, this team (imo) changed its philosophy from DEFEND the blitz to PUNISH the blitz, and again (imo) successfully SCHEMED a win today. They didn't overpower or out talent or out will. They didn't have to rely on a dumbass fumble. They didn't need a miracle. they didn't inch one out, by being scrappy but determined. They just... Looked like a professional football team that schemed to put their talented players in a position to win a game. Something I haven't seen Haley do. Ever.

NJChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 03:44 PM
It shoud never happen. Haley looks like such a fool today. He is lucky that Cassel got injured.

Cassel would have had similar success and then everyone would know it was all Haley.

But, at least now, some can try to argue that it was Cassel.

And, that isn't me thinking Cassel is great... it is me just realizing that Haley is awful.

You still give Cassel way too much credit. I also think you miss the point that Crennel is using a QB Haley never had, accept when he got hurt. Haley deserved to get fired, but wake up about Cassel. Did you ever watch his mechanics, throws, or reading of a defense? Its amazing how much football people watch and still don't learn anything.

milkman
12-18-2011, 03:44 PM
It shoud never happen. Haley looks like such a fool today. He is lucky that Cassel got injured.

Cassel would have had similar success and then everyone would know it was all Haley.

But, at least now, some can try to argue that it was Cassel.

And, that isn't me thinking Cassel is great... it is me just realizing that Haley is awful.

Your nearly unmatched moronacy is awe inspiring.

threebag02
12-18-2011, 03:46 PM
Of course. Same everything. I mean, other than the head coach, but that made no difference.

I will say that Orton played well. And, I am glad the Chiefs have more options at QB going into next year.

But, to say the situation is the same is foolish.

ROFL

You just can't handle the truth, can you?

The simple fact is that if Haley wasn't such a baby, intent on spiting Pioli by starting Palko, this argument would have been over 3 weeks ago.

You should thank Haley because he gave you an extra 3 games to wiggle your way out of your ridiculous defenses of Cassel.

Instead you choose to die on that hill. Good luck with that.

Can we finally change it to SenselessCasselFan.

Chiefnj2
12-18-2011, 03:47 PM
Orton is still a backup.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:48 PM
Orton is still a backup.

Exactly.

And by that measure, Cassel isn't even that...

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:49 PM
There is some truth to that. But again, that's more about clearing out the safeties, which is done by designing decoy routes. It's not easy to do against 8 man fronts, because your guys don't have time to get down field before you have to release the ball. But overall, this team (imo) changed its philosophy from DEFEND the blitz to PUNISH the blitz, and again (imo) successfully SCHEMED a win today. They didn't overpower or out talent or out will. They didn't have to rely on a dumbass fumble. They didn't need a miracle. they didn't inch one out, by being scrappy but determined. They just... Looked like a professional football team that schemed to put their talented players in a position to win a game. Something I haven't seen Haley do. Ever.

Why would the previous regime SCHEME to punish a blitz when the QB simply couldn't do it?

Chiefnj2
12-18-2011, 03:50 PM
People act like Orton threw 5 TDs today.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 03:56 PM
People act like Orton threw 5 TDs today.

Really? Is that what you REALLY think?

Bowser
12-18-2011, 03:57 PM
People act like Orton threw 5 TDs today.

Hardly. People are acting like they saw good QB play out of a Chiefs team the first time in forever.

mcan
12-18-2011, 03:57 PM
Why would the previous regime SCHEME to punish a blitz when the QB simply couldn't do it?

I think Haley believes he is a WR genius, and wanted to be successful running the same kinds of routes that he ran in Arizona, no matter what. I don't believe Haley ever wanted to run a traditional "you better not blitz us or we're gonna dink and dunk some screens down your throat" offense. He was trying to be flashy, with max protect and routes that call for wrs to run squiggles down the field. If you can block it for long enough, you can hit some guys deep (Fitzgerald style). But if you can't, you have to let the ball go early, and the receivers have to cut off their routes mid squiggle. (hence you get a qb with an average completion of like 6 yards per attempt, and a BUNCH of interceptions where the receiver ran the wrong route).

Valiant
12-18-2011, 03:59 PM
Orton played great. But ground ourselves. Gb is one of the worst d's giving up yards.

The best goes to the def today. Amazing job.

I don't want any part of mcdaniels. I have hope for next season.
Twas great seeing a qb actually play fter the past 2+ seasons.

threebag02
12-18-2011, 04:02 PM
Cassel would have had similar success...

WTF??? Really...NO FUCKING WAY

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 04:03 PM
I think Haley believes he is a WR genius, and wanted to be successful running the same kinds of routes that he ran in Arizona, no matter what. I don't believe Haley ever wanted to run a traditional "you better not blitz us or we're gonna dink and dunk some screens down your throat" offense. He was trying to be flashy, with max protect and routes that call for wrs to run squiggles down the field. If you can block it for long enough, you can hit some guys deep (Fitzgerald style). But if you can't, you have to let the ball go early, and the receivers have to cut off their routes mid squiggle. (hence you get a qb with an average completion of like 6 yards per attempt, and a BUNCH of interceptions where the receiver ran the wrong route).

We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.

Valiant
12-18-2011, 04:07 PM
It shoud never happen. Haley looks like such a fool today. He is lucky that Cassel got injured.

Cassel would have had similar success and then everyone would know it was all Haley.

But, at least now, some can try to argue that it was Cassel.

And, that isn't me thinking Cassel is great... it is me just realizing that Haley is awful.

About time someone corrected your name.

Frosty
12-18-2011, 04:10 PM
We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.

The Chiefs haven't been able to run a screen worth a shit over the last three years (actually not since Green was QB). The difference today was shocking.

How anyone could have watched the game today and not seen a completely different Chiefs team is beyond me. The QB position is that important.

dirk digler
12-18-2011, 04:12 PM
We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.

I don't remember the Chiefs running many screens with Cassel and RB's. The last ones I can remember were the one he threw an INT and the following week he threw it in the dirt.

mcan
12-18-2011, 04:12 PM
We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.


On the first point, I don't remember any traditional screens being run all year, where the linemen chipped their man, then got outside to lead block for a back who leaked into the flat. We haven't even thrown but a handful of flare routes or swing passes all year. At least I don't remember them. Even the infamous interception against San Diego came off of a play action, which is maybe the DUMBEST thing you can do. you don't screen off a play action pass. Here, let me fake it to you, so that everybody will surround you, then I'll throw it to you now that you have no momentum and there are dudes all over you... Just another example of Haley being a cancer to this offense, that was only growing, and needed to be surgically removed.

As for your second point, Cassel not making good presnap reads. Yeah, that i agree with. Cassel isn't even adept enough to know when the team is lined up incorrectly. At least today, I saw Orton tell Breaston to get his ass of the line of scrimmage, then proceeded to hit him over the middle for a first down on the same play.

htismaqe
12-18-2011, 04:14 PM
I don't remember the Chiefs running many screens with Cassel and RB's. The last ones I can remember were the one he threw an INT and the following week he threw it in the dirt.

The Minnesota "grounding" play - we ran that one today and it actually worked because Orton saw McClain.

I was at the game against Minnesota and McClain was WIDE open. Cassel never even looked his direction.

You can't run misdirection or motion plays when your QB can't read a defense.

FAX
12-18-2011, 04:15 PM
I just wish I hadn't missed 99.9 percent of this game.

Sounds like it was a good one.

FAX

dirk digler
12-18-2011, 04:21 PM
The Minnesota "grounding" play - we ran that one today and it actually worked because Orton saw McClain.

I was at the game against Minnesota and McClain was WIDE open. Cassel never even looked his direction.

You can't run misdirection or motion plays when your QB can't read a defense.

lol I take your word for it. Cassel is so horrible he can't find his screen man.

Baby Lee
12-18-2011, 04:21 PM
We ran screens with Cassel ALL the time. They just never got executed before today. Notice that the bubble screen actually WORKS when the QB recognizes soft coverage on the outside?

Cassel is a complete moron when it comes to pre-snap reads.

AND quick snaps, AND hits the WR with a snappy pass IN stride.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-18-2011, 04:26 PM
If anything, you hope that Orton has driven a stake in Cassel's heart, but again, being significantly better than Matt Cassel does not mean you're good enough.

At this point, the team might as well drop the hammer, try and add depth through FA this year, and do absolutely everything they can with every pick in this draft to trade up.

Dave Lane
12-18-2011, 04:30 PM
Hence, why I stated that signing Orton could signal the end of the Cassel era in KC.

And the beginning of a new era of mediocrity. Yay?

crossbow
12-18-2011, 04:34 PM
Why are we arguing over this? Cassel isn't a starting caliber QB and Orton is. Orton just may be inconsistent which is one of the big differences between a solid player and a great one.

Orton has 7 years of starting experience and it shows. Matt never started in college and only did so in the pros for what 3 years total and it shows. OK, so Matt got screwed by the disorganized Haley play calling - too bad but he still can't make the throws that Orton can.

scott free
12-18-2011, 04:36 PM
Hardly. People are acting like they saw good QB play out of a Chiefs team the first time in forever.

Exactly, i havent seen so many people creating straw man arguments in a long time.

No one is looking at Orton as The Guy, but after all we've been through... he'll do for now.

crossbow
12-18-2011, 04:45 PM
Your thread title should have been "This is What an NFL QB Looks Like".

It has been so long since the Chiefs had one that we had to be shown what one looks like in red and gold.

chop
12-18-2011, 04:45 PM
But he can only play well with McDaniels as his coach.

SenselessChiefsfan says so.

Only McDaniels has the magic touch.

Didn't hurt him to have Randy Moss and Wes Welker either.

Tribal Warfare
12-18-2011, 04:46 PM
And the beginning of a new era of mediocrity. Yay?

Well, if the plan is to develop Stanzi then this could be good news as Orton is a stopgap solution .

Chiefshrink
12-18-2011, 04:49 PM
Romeo won his HC job for next year with this big win over GB IMO.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 04:54 PM
Orton did fine. Orton deserves a ton of credit for the short time that he was with the team.

If he can consistently perform at this level, then I will have no choice but to change my opinion of him.

Now, I don't think he will. I think he will prove to be worse than Cassel as he has his entire career. But, he is in the last year of his contract. I imagine he will play the best he can over these last three weeks.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 04:55 PM
Romeo won his HC job for next year with this big win over GB IMO.

If this were the last game in the year, I agree.

I wonder if he set the bar too high.

If he loses both of the next two games, it could really remove any bump he got from this win.

FAX
12-18-2011, 04:59 PM
I missed the entire game, but I was just watching some highlights.

Damn. Our defense looks unreal on some of those plays. It's as though we're playing at a completely different speed than the Packers' O. Holy crap.

FAX

threebag02
12-18-2011, 04:59 PM
For fucks sake can we please change the SenselessChiefsFan name to SenselessCasselFan. Maybe it could be Bissel cause I haven't seen anything suck a set of nuts like this.

scott free
12-18-2011, 04:59 PM
I think he will prove to be worse than Cassel as he has his entire career.

If i didnt know better, i'd swear on my life that you're joking.

Red Beans
12-18-2011, 05:04 PM
If i didnt know better, i'd swear on my life that you're joking.

I'm hoping my sarcasm meter is broken as well...

BossChief
12-18-2011, 05:05 PM
Senseless is a straight up football comedian.

Baby Lee
12-18-2011, 05:06 PM
I think he will prove to be worse than Cassel as he has his entire career.
Cassel has proven himself the worst starter in the league throughout his career, and barring monumental retardation by Pioli, it's done and over already.

scott free
12-18-2011, 05:07 PM
I'm hoping my sarcasm meter is broken as well...

Nope, the guys dead serious.

I dont get it.

Douche Baggins
12-18-2011, 05:08 PM
Didn't hurt him to have Randy Moss and Wes Welker either.

We're talking about ORTON.

Senseless thinks Orton only plays well when McDaniels is his head coach.

mcan
12-18-2011, 05:08 PM
I do think senseless is right in that getting rid of haley and letting these coaches do their thing is the #1 (by far) reason we won today's game. I would also be curious if Cassel were playing in a well organized, well prepared, well schemed offense, if he wouldn't be as good as Orton was today in terms of making throws and looking successful. There really isn't a great way to answer those questions, so I look at the intangibles. Orton hasn't showed me in his limited time here that he has many, but I was SICK to death of the "too many men on the line" and "tackle was uncovered" or "2 men moving at the snap" or "illegal shift" penalties that seemed to just rack up while Cassel was under center. Now, they also racked up under Palko, BUT at least today, like I mentioned earlier, when Breaston was on the line, covering the TE (illegal), at least Orton had the presence of mind to say, "hey douchebag, back up a little" and wave him back.

Dave Lane
12-18-2011, 05:08 PM
People act like Orton threw 5 TDs today.

Didn't he throw 20?

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 05:12 PM
If i didnt know better, i'd swear on my life that you're joking.

It doesn't matter. In the end, neither he or Cassel are good enough. The difference is that I think Cassel is better than Orton.

Reality, it is like arguing the best way to die. None are good. I just think Cassel is less bad.

Over the history of the two players, Cassel has had a better careeer. But, it is really an insignificant point given the mediocrity of both players.

BTW: Orton has three games to get his next contract. I imagine we will see his best effort over these three games.

It will be interesting to see if he takes a step back after he gets his new contract.

threebag02
12-18-2011, 05:14 PM
JFC there is no way in hell Matt Cassel contributes to defeat the Pack. Get Fucking Real.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 05:14 PM
I do think senseless is right in that getting rid of haley and letting these coaches do their thing is the #1 (by far) reason we won today's game. I would also be curious if Cassel were playing in a well organized, well prepared, well schemed offense, if he wouldn't be as good as Orton was today in terms of making throws and looking successful. There really isn't a great way to answer those questions, so I look at the intangibles. Orton hasn't showed me in his limited time here that he has many, but I was SICK to death of the "too many men on the line" and "tackle was uncovered" or "2 men moving at the snap" or "illegal shift" penalties that seemed to just rack up while Cassel was under center. Now, they also racked up under Palko, BUT at least today, like I mentioned earlier, when Breaston was on the line, covering the TE (illegal), at least Orton had the presence of mind to say, "hey douchebag, back up a little" and wave him back.

It helps when the play is in on time. A coaches job is to take as much pressure off the players as possible. That includes getting the plays in and letting the QB make a presnap read.

threebag02
12-18-2011, 05:16 PM
I guess I was wrong Matt did the best thing he could to help this squad.



He was standing on the fucking sideline.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 05:17 PM
JFC there is no way in hell Matt Cassel contributes to defeat the Pack. Get ****ing Real.

Not under Haley, that is for sure.

The funny part is that we didn't get to see how Orton worked with Haley.

So much of a QB's success is the relationship with the head coach/offensive coordinator.

I think that Haley may have worked better with Orton than with Cassel. But, I also think that Cassel would work with other HC's and offensive coordinators than Haley.

threebag02
12-18-2011, 05:20 PM
Cassel arm strength/accuracy < Orton arm strength/accuracy. PERIOD.

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 05:21 PM
The offense was actually quite a bit different. It allowed the QB to have more time and give the WR's more time to get open.

I am kind of sick of arguing.

Cassel isn't great, he just isn't as bad as the guys on here think.

And, forgive me for not wanting to change my opinion of Orton after one game against a bad defense.

I have seen Orton for five years. One year doesn't completely change history.

Cassel is awful at selling playaction fakes
He sells the screen way too soon whereas orton coolly waits for it to develop. He also has absolutely no touch--the screen recipient always has to reach high to gnab it
Orton for the most part was on target all day whereas cassel is far too inaccurate for a starting qb
In almost every game in his career, cassel has taken about 2 quarters to warm up. Orton was great from the get go
Orton scans the entire field. Cassel panics when the primary read is off. Then he usually checks down.
Saw orton in the pre snap actually making adjustments. Case in point... First pass of the game, blitz came left and he immediately gunned it to the hot route
The oline was significantly better because orton was punishing gb when they chose to blitz. That's what good qbs do. Cassel does not.

Name one thing cassel does better than orton? Because I can't think of a single thing. Both have no track record of clutch play. Orton throws a better deep ball. He throws a more accurate ball. He actually reads defenses pre snaps. He has a much better feel for the position like selling play fakes, having the recognition to run a quick count on a wr screen, etc...Tell me ONE THING.

mcan
12-18-2011, 05:23 PM
It helps when the play is in on time. A coaches job is to take as much pressure off the players as possible. That includes getting the plays in and letting the QB make a presnap read.

This is true. I'm just doing my best to be objective. At no time during Cassel's tenure here so far did I ever see him do anything that made me think he was in control of his offense or team, or was a genuine leader or had any football presence. I like telling the story of Trent Green during his first game as a Chief back in 2001. We lost that game to the Raiders, but on our last offensive possession (you might remember Snoop Minnis laying out and catching that TD), there was a play where Trent rolled to his right on a 4th down and short. TRich was open and waving his hands at the marker, but there was a linebacker about to hit him in the back when the ball go there. Trent pointed to the linebacker as he ran and TRich turned and put that linebacker on his butt, allowing trent to scramble for the first. When I saw that play, I knew the Chiefs had somebody special. It takes a good QB to make that throw on the run, and GREAT fullback to catch that ball cleanly while being hit in the back... It takes a GREAT QB to NOT throw that ball, and a genuine leader to actually POINT to the guy he wanted blocked.

Of course, that year Trent became known as TrInt, and his numbers weren't that great. But there were CLEARLY intangibles that made me certain that if we stuck with this guy, we would have an amazing offense.

In his 3 years here, I have yet to see Cassel do anything on the field that has given me a similar feeling. So, even if Orton isn't any better, I don't have a problem with Cassel getting the boot. No problems at all.

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 05:23 PM
It helps when the play is in on time. A coaches job is to take as much pressure off the players as possible. That includes getting the plays in and letting the QB make a presnap read.

That wasn't a problem last year. Matt still showed no ability to make pre snap adjustments, find a 2nd or 3rd target, or throw an accurate ball and he was one of the worst in the NFL at throwing a deep ball.

And this is cinsidering that defenses were throwing 8 in a box loading up against the run. That's a qbs wet dream.

threebag02
12-18-2011, 05:25 PM
One thing Cassel robs this team more with payroll.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 05:30 PM
This is true. I'm just doing my best to be objective. At no time during Cassel's tenure here so far did I ever see him do anything that made me think he was in control of his offense or team, or was a genuine leader or had any football presence. I like telling the story of Trent Green during his first game as a Chief back in 2001. We lost that game to the Raiders, but on our last offensive possession (you might remember Snoop Minnis laying out and catching that TD), there was a play where Trent rolled to his right on a 4th down and short. TRich was open and waving his hands at the marker, but there was a linebacker about to hit him in the back when the ball go there. Trent pointed to the linebacker as he ran and TRich turned and put that linebacker on his butt, allowing trent to scramble for the first. When I saw that play, I knew the Chiefs had somebody special. It takes a good QB to make that throw on the run, and GREAT fullback to catch that ball cleanly while being hit in the back... It takes a GREAT QB to NOT throw that ball, and a genuine leader to actually POINT to the guy he wanted blocked.

Of course, that year Trent became known as TrInt, and his numbers weren't that great. But there were CLEARLY intangibles that made me certain that if we stuck with this guy, we would have an amazing offense.

In his 3 years here, I have yet to see Cassel do anything on the field that has given me a similar feeling. So, even if Orton isn't any better, I don't have a problem with Cassel getting the boot. No problems at all.

I saw Cassel changing some things up last year and lining guys up correctly on the line.

I don't have a problem with Cassel being gone as well. I just think that Orton isn't any better, and in the long run will prove to be worse.

But, I have stated that the Chiefs should draft a QB this year. Of course, now that Haley is gone, the Chiefs will probably win out and lose the opportunity to get one of the top three.

I fully expect the Chiefs to trade down this year.

Brock
12-18-2011, 05:31 PM
I saw Cassel taking too long to line guys up correctly and throwing a pussyfit when he had to call a timeout.

Baby Lee
12-18-2011, 05:32 PM
Name one thing cassel does better than orton? Because I can't think of a single thing. Both have no track record of clutch play. Orton throws a better deep ball. He throws a more accurate ball. He actually reads defenses pre snaps. He has a much better feel for the position like selling play fakes, having the recognition to run a quick count on a wr screen, etc...Tell me ONE THING.

Putting up moderately impressive TD/INT numbers against the easiest schedule in the league, using a customized game plan to minimize mistakes and make ultra-safe passes.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 05:33 PM
That wasn't a problem last year. Matt still showed no ability to make pre snap adjustments, find a 2nd or 3rd target, or throw an accurate ball and he was one of the worst in the NFL at throwing a deep ball.

And this is cinsidering that defenses were throwing 8 in a box loading up against the run. That's a qbs wet dream.

Don't know where Petro found it, but his downfield completion percentage over his career is better than Orton.

I guess I should just change my argument. Because it isn't really who is better, it is that Orton still isn't good enough.

But, if you asked me to pick a QB out of those two for the NFL, it has to be Cassel.

Why? Orton doesn't put in the work, and football isn't his first priority.

See, that is why McDaniels loves Cassel. That is why I would choose Cassel over Orton.

mcan
12-18-2011, 05:34 PM
I saw Cassel taking too long to line guys up correctly and throwing a pussyfit when he had to call a timeout.

This is what I saw a LOT of. He WOULD get players to move to the left or the right if they were REALLY in the wrong spot, and usually have to call timeout and be pissed off (as he should be). But there were WAY too many procedural penalties called under Cassel for my tastes. This is an indictment on both he and his offensive coaches.

listopencil
12-18-2011, 05:39 PM
He's the same guy he was in Denver. He's a decent QB. Gratz on the win.

hometeam
12-18-2011, 05:40 PM
I have been preaching that orton is underrated since he was with the bears :/

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 05:43 PM
I have been preaching that orton is underrated since he was with the bears :/

Hey, I at least respect you. The ones that suddenly preached how good he was after he was acquired by the Chiefs got under my skin.

The same guys that were sure that Cassel was better last offseason.

Dexter Manley
12-18-2011, 05:45 PM
One game, chill out...

MahiMike
12-18-2011, 05:46 PM
Not me. I said he was as good as Carson Palmer and WAY cheaper. I'll go ahead and say we no longer need to think QB in the draft.

Chiefnj2
12-18-2011, 05:48 PM
Putting up moderately impressive TD/INT numbers against the easiest schedule in the league, using a customized game plan to minimize mistakes and make ultra-safe passes.

As opposed to all those OC's who customize game plans to maximize mistakes and make risky passes.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 05:50 PM
As opposed to all those OC's who customize game plans to maximize mistakes and make risky passes.

Hey, don't talk about Haley like that.

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 05:54 PM
Don't know where Petro found it, but his downfield completion percentage over his career is better than Orton.

I guess I should just change my argument. Because it isn't really who is better, it is that Orton still isn't good enough.

But, if you asked me to pick a QB out of those two for the NFL, it has to be Cassel.

Why? Orton doesn't put in the work, and football isn't his first priority.

See, that is why McDaniels loves Cassel. That is why I would choose Cassel over Orton.

Over his career. Thats what happens when you have the best jump ball receiver of all time in Randy moss. Daunte Culpepper was nails when he had moss too.

Your comment on or ton's work ethic are ridiculous and unfounded. from what I've heard, he has a very good work ethic and his teammates like him. Mcdaniels loved cassel because he knew he could run his system. You have no idea who he would choose today. Remember, he chose cassel over orton in Denver because he had never worked with orton before.

Also, the fact that cassel puts in a ton of work and doesn't improve is a huge concern.

No, cassel does not make good pre snap adjustments. Too many plays where you see more blitzers than blockers. That's a qb issue.

Nobody here wants orton as a long term option. You are the only one who for whatever bizarre reason thinks cassel is any good. Again, the chiefs didn't have problems with play calling or communication last year. And cassel still struggled, despite his stats. Quite simply, he is a one read guy. You send in the play and he throws to his primary target or else check down. That works when you have moss. It does not work when you have even very good receivers like bowe.

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 05:55 PM
As opposed to all those OC's who customize game plans to maximize mistakes and make risky passes.

The packers game plan around Aaron Rodgers. And they are not afraid to dial up higher risk pass plays.

The chiefs game plan to keep the ball out of cassels hands. Because when they put it squarely in his hands, he struggles.

Thats the huge distinction.

Baby Lee
12-18-2011, 05:56 PM
As opposed to all those OC's who customize game plans to maximize mistakes and make risky passes.

That's not the opposite of what I said. The opposite is taking chances for bigger gains and executing passes into challenging windows. Things proficient QBs can take advantage of

BoneKrusher
12-18-2011, 06:00 PM
Orton did just what i thought he would do, show us all how Shitty Cassel and Haley both are.

and it feels nice beating a contender.

Groves
12-18-2011, 06:03 PM
Please don't make me have respect for Muir. That's all I ask.

threebag02
12-18-2011, 06:34 PM
Hardly. People are acting like they saw good QB play out of a Chiefs team the first time in forever.

Not me. I said he was as good as Carson Palmer and WAY cheaper. I'll go ahead and say we no longer need to think QB in the draft.

This

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 06:36 PM
Not me. I said he was as good as Carson Palmer and WAY cheaper. I'll go ahead and say we no longer need to think QB in the draft.

We absolutely need to draft a QB. Orton has a ton to prove in terms of late-game heroics and while he's better than Cassel, he's not top-tier talent.

Even if Orton throws for 700 yards the next two games, the Chiefs have to draft a first or second round QB. Period.

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 06:56 PM
That pass to Baldwin to the 3 or so, was sweet. Except for the not holding on part

Messier
12-18-2011, 07:23 PM
I've always thought Orton and Cassel were pretty much the same QB, but today I noticed I didn't get nervous every time Orton dropped back like I do with Cassel. I felt Orton was confidant in his ability to get the ball where he wanted. I know it seems obvious, but Cassel seems to have a, I hope the ball gets there, kind of mind set.

ChiefsCountry
12-18-2011, 07:25 PM
That is why I would choose Cassel over Orton.

You might be the dumbest fucker on this board or top three. LMAO

Freekofnature
12-18-2011, 07:26 PM
Give him good protection, he'll play like today and rack up yardages.

But trust me, he's not a guy you want starting long term.

beach tribe
12-18-2011, 07:28 PM
Orton's skillset is fucking mind blowingly more effective than Cassel's.
Those stupid WR screens that the DBs would be nailing us on with Cassel's wind up gun are actually effective with Orton's quick draw.
Orton reads the field, and actually finds the open man. Casel, ehh not so much.

boogblaster
12-18-2011, 07:29 PM
today was a delight compaired to the last 2 1/2 seasons .. maybe not the QOTF but still a decent QB doing his job .. plus hats off to the D ......

Messier
12-18-2011, 07:33 PM
Orton's skillset is ****ing mind blowingly more effective than Cassel's.
Those stupid WR screens that the DBs would be nailing us on with Cassel's wind up gun are actually effective with Orton's quick draw.
Orton reads the field, and actually finds the open man. Casel, ehh not so much.

It was great to see when the play would break down, instead of freaking out Orton found the open man, quickly. Quickly is the key, because Cassel would eventually find the man in the flat, but so late in the play that the D could easily see what was happening and blow up the player in the flat for a one yard gain.

milkman
12-18-2011, 07:41 PM
Give him good protection, he'll play like today and rack up yardages.

But trust me, he's not a guy you want starting long term.

We are well aware of Orton's limitations.

This may seem like a lovefest to you, but what it really is, is a celbration of the step up from absolute shit to mediocrity.

We now can only hope that Pioli has the sense to flush the shit, and actually find go out a bring us a QB we can win with long term and in the playoffs.

threebag02
12-18-2011, 08:11 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXgb2c-Ud4mpyu0VZbOvpfz5BawqG_tTXd5iOZ5pxjag4tKKgAzg

Ultra Peanut
12-18-2011, 08:14 PM
That was a breath of fresh air.

Predarat
12-18-2011, 08:44 PM
Sorry for dissen ya Orton, you kicked ass today.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 08:13 AM
Give him good protection, he'll play like today and rack up yardages.

But trust me, he's not a guy you want starting long term.

Who said anything about wanting him to start long term?

Read my original post - I STILL would prefer to see Stanzi start. I'm just glad that the book on Cassel is finally closed.

Hopefully Pioli can admit he made a mistake and move on.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 08:15 AM
Who said anything about wanting him to start long term?

Read my original post - I STILL would prefer to see Stanzi start. I'm just glad that the book on Cassel is finally closed.

Hopefully Pioli can admit he made a mistake and move on.

I have a feeling that so many are putting the cart before the horse here...

Gonna be alot of pissed off people come opening day next year.

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-19-2011, 08:16 AM
<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=1129wfl" target="_blank"><img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/1129wfl.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

BoneKrusher
12-19-2011, 08:16 AM
I'm just glad that the book on Cassel is finally closed.

Hopefully Pioli can admit he made a mistake and move on.

that's where it has to start.

OzarksChiefsFan
12-19-2011, 10:50 AM
Is it at least possible that Orton is like Gannon? Gannon got better with age. I thought Orton got a

raw deal after leading the Bears to the playoffs and then they went with Grossman. Orton is a much

better QB today than the was then. I don't think the play calling was a lot different but I think the

QB went downfield and didn't give up on plays. I also think some of the O line problems were

reduced by Orton burning the Packers when they blitzed and threatened them with the deep ball

the entire game thus not letting them put 10 in the box and jam receivers. If he continues to play

well how do you not sign him?

Baby Lee
12-19-2011, 10:57 AM
If he continues to play well how do you not sign him?

Was he drafted, by us and only us, 1st round top 10?

BCD
12-19-2011, 01:03 PM
I have a feeling that so many are putting the cart before the horse here...

Gonna be alot of pissed off people come opening day next year.

Didn't you say Orton was garbage?

:)

Zeke
12-19-2011, 02:13 PM
The one play that stood out to me more than any one was when BJ Raji busts through the middle and is in Orton's face. I am thinking for sure this is going to be a sack or INT... he stands there and keeps progressing through receivers then fires the ball for a completion.

My wife looked at me and said "Cassel couldn't have done that, he'd of looked like a toddler running in place about to pee himself"

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 03:11 PM
Didn't you say Orton was garbage?

:)

Yes I did. I was proven wrong yesterday...

guess we are going to see how he does against the raiders and the broncos..

but still want a franchise QB for the future to start next year.
I am not going to change my approach on wanting a 1st rd qb under center. I want a superbowl victory.. Not feel good stories...

WhiteWhale
12-19-2011, 03:21 PM
Don't know where Petro found it, but his downfield completion percentage over his career is better than Orton.

I guess I should just change my argument. Because it isn't really who is better, it is that Orton still isn't good enough.

But, if you asked me to pick a QB out of those two for the NFL, it has to be Cassel.

Why? Orton doesn't put in the work, and football isn't his first priority.

See, that is why McDaniels loves Cassel. That is why I would choose Cassel over Orton.

I'm not some Orton fan, but this is pure speculative nonsense.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2011, 03:35 PM
Yes. Just pointing out games that Cassel had against similar defenses.

we've pointed out multiple times that Orton did things fundamentally that Cassel hasn't done in 3 years. Cassel had good half-games against those 3 teams. In his entire 3 year career, he has less than a handful of games where he was very good for more than 3 quarters. That's really bad. Orton's been here one game and he already did that once. Yes, I thought Cassel played a decent game against Minnesota and Indy for a half. Against San Diego, he wasn't great. He got a bunch of yards on a few gimmick plays and disappeared for almost the entire second half.

Again, it's the little things. Cassel gets antsy when the primary read isn't there. orton kept his cool. Cassel is lazy at selling the play fake. Orton did it beautifully. Cassel is inaccurate--he doesn't always get the ball there and almost never leads his receivers. Orton isn't perfect, but significantly better.

Neither are probably long-term options. But don't act like Orton's success comes from the magical genius that is Bill Muir.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2011, 03:36 PM
I'm not some Orton fan, but this is pure speculative nonsense.

That is the first I ever heard that. I think he saw some pictures of him drinking and boozing and assumed that. Everything i've heard is that he has a solid work ethic and is liked by his teammates. I don't think he has a Tom Brady like work ethic (in cassel's defense, he's a relentlessly hard worker. Probably works harder than Orton). But that doesn't mean it's close to an issue.

BigChiefTablet
12-19-2011, 03:39 PM
"Cassel works really hard" is hardly a glowing endorsement. The kids at the special olympics work really hard too.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 03:40 PM
You know when our franchise has hit rock bottom when you are debating Orton vs Cassel and totally blind to the fact that neither can win you a superbowl.

we should be discussing our first round shiney new frachise of Hope QB...

But NO, we are talking about orton vs cassel....

Can we get any lower?

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2011, 03:44 PM
You know when our franchise has hit rock bottom when you are debating Orton vs Cassel and totally blind to the fact that neither can win you a superbowl.

we should be discussing our first round shiney new frachise of Hope QB...

But NO, we are talking about orton vs cassel....

Can we get any lower?

But you can't just jump to the opposite extreme. It's not "start a first round QB or bust." It's... "just draft a good QB we can develop for the future."

Few are saying Orton is the next hope. But I think most of us would be very comfortable with him being a starter for 1-2 years while we develop somebody on the bench. I think people are acting like a young QB learns nothing on the bench. I'll again point to my golf example. You don't learn how to be a good golfer until you play a few rounds on a real course. But if you become really good on the range, then when you step on the course, it's all about tweaking and making small adjustments.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 03:45 PM
But you can't just jump to the opposite extreme. It's not "start a first round QB or bust." It's... "just draft a good QB we can develop for the future."

Few are saying Orton is the next hope. But I think most of us would be very comfortable with him being a starter for 1-2 years while we develop somebody on the bench. I think people are acting like a young QB learns nothing on the bench. I'll again point to my golf example. You don't learn how to be a good golfer until you play a few rounds on a real course. But if you become really good on the range, then when you step on the course, it's all about tweaking and making small adjustments.

You are about as extreme as the come and are all over the place...

Fuck showing the ropes feel good stories... I dont want orton for 1-2 years. I want a franchise qb playing football...

griZZly64
12-19-2011, 03:46 PM
You know when our franchise has hit rock bottom when you are debating Orton vs Cassel and totally blind to the fact that neither can win you a superbowl.

we should be discussing our first round shiney new frachise of Hope QB...

But NO, we are talking about orton vs cassel....

Can we get any lower?


Well you're a fan of our team, so no.. we cannot get any lower.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2011, 03:50 PM
You are about as extreme as the come and are all over the place...

**** showing the ropes feel good stories... I dont want orton for 1-2 years. I want a franchise qb playing football...

It's not about showing the ropes. It's about having QBs coaches to teach mechanics. Training them in the film room. Playing on the scout team. Adjusting to the speed of the game.

Unless you have an abomination of a QB situation, there is no reason to force rushing getting a young QB on the field.

Messier
12-19-2011, 04:46 PM
I wanted to post this but didn't want to start a thread. Kevin Kietzman is on the air just making stuff up to fit his argument. He's a Cassel backer and in trying to make Orton look like the wrong QB to go with, is saying he has Orton and Cassels career stat in front of him. He said they've started the same number of games,( Wrong! Orton has started 66, Cassel has started 54.) KK went on to say Cassel leads in almost every important category. The key word must be almost, because he's right, except for Orton has almost 3000 more passing yards and 3 more TD passes.

I know this isn't that big a deal, but Kietzman knows people can look this stuff up. Or does he?

Douche Baggins
12-19-2011, 05:10 PM
Why do people even bother looking at Orton's Chicago numbers...they aren't relevant at all.

rocknrolla
12-19-2011, 05:26 PM
I wish Haley was still here, so that we could actually judge Orton in the same situation.

I have said ALL along, for a long time, that Cassel is average, Haley makes him and the entire offense less than average.

Either way, Crennel got more out of this team than Haley did all season.

I wanted Haley gone. I am fine with Cassel leaving. I just don't think that Orton is any better.

If Haley was still here Palko would have been playing. You are high as a mother f*cker, if you think Cassel is better than Orton! Senseless is very fitting for you.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 05:27 PM
Well you're a fan of our team, so no.. we cannot get any lower.
That was so hurtful.

KCBOSS1
12-19-2011, 06:01 PM
Why do people even bother looking at Orton's Chicago numbers...they aren't relevant at all.


The poor guy had absolutely nothing to work with in Chicago, plus it's the least pass friendly conditioned stadium in the NFL

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 06:30 PM
I'm convinced that 95% of Chiefs fans are, at heart, True Fans.

DeezNutz
12-19-2011, 06:36 PM
Did Kyle:

I apologize for criticizing you for sitting out with a tweaked finger. You were right and should have taken more time to heal.

Now that you've played, thus showing that even a middle-of-the-road NFL starter is far more polished than Matt "Pioli is a ****ing idiot" Cassel, we're stuck with you. Now we'll go through the same types of arguments with True Fans (he needs O-line help, drops, schedule!!, play-calling) that we had with another lackluster started, Kr..Bo...Gr...Cassel.

But at least we got rid of Carl. I think.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 06:57 PM
I'm convinced that 95% of Chiefs fans are, at heart, True Fans.

Agree 100% great post.

Tombstone RJ
12-19-2011, 09:17 PM
and quite a few people here should be doling them out as well... :)

Leonard Pope? Big catches. Barry Richardson? Nice job.

Same cast of characters, same playcalling (McCluster up the middle, anyone?)...

Yet Orton has 300 yards passing in a game where we led the entire way.

Yeah, I wanted to see Stanzi play and I still do.

But thank you Kyle Orton for making it ABUNDANTLY clear how much of a waste Matt Cassel is...

:)

keep drinking the Koolaid brosef. All Orton will do for the chefs is insure you won't be drafting real QB talent in the 2012 draft.

You could have had RG3, but instead you get KNB. :clap:

Tombstone RJ
12-19-2011, 09:18 PM
Did Kyle:

I apologize for criticizing you for sitting out with a tweaked finger. You were right and should have taken more time to heal.

Now that you've played, thus showing that even a middle-of-the-road NFL starter is far more polished than Matt "Pioli is a ****ing idiot" Cassel, we're stuck with you. Now we'll go through the same types of arguments with True Fans (he needs O-line help, drops, schedule!!, play-calling) that we had with another lackluster started, Kr..Bo...Gr...Cassel.

But at least we got rid of Carl. I think.

this

Oh Snap
12-19-2011, 09:19 PM
I knew Orton would light it up. He did pretty well in Denver considering they had a crappy running game, and a defense that was absolutely terrible last year, and for the early part of this year.

He also has much better recievers to work with here vs what he had with denver. He was zipping the ball all over the place yesterday. And did anyone notice how he placed the ball to his recievers? Right in the numbers, or right where the reciever could catch it. That one long pass to Baldiwn (which he dropped) was placed perfectly for him to catch it.

Seeing Orton light it up never surprised me. I knew he was capable of it. It might be too early to say hes the QB for this team, but if he can perform at a high level like he did last sunday, he will go a long ways in proving that he is our man.

Lets not forget that he hasnt really played any meaningul snaps for the past several weeks going into this game. He looked quite impressive considering everything. He has some rust to shake off, but he looked better than Cassel ever has in his 3 years here.

milkman
12-19-2011, 09:30 PM
I'm convinced that 95% of Chiefs fans are, at heart, True Fans.

The definition of InKansasCity:

Keep signing mediocre QBs and hope for different results.

Tombstone RJ
12-19-2011, 09:33 PM
I knew Orton would light it up. He did pretty well in Denver considering they had a crappy running game, and a defense that was absolutely terrible last year, and for the early part of this year.

He also has much better recievers to work with here vs what he had with denver. He was zipping the ball all over the place yesterday. And did anyone notice how he placed the ball to his recievers? Right in the numbers, or right where the reciever could catch it. That one long pass to Baldiwn (which he dropped) was placed perfectly for him to catch it.

Seeing Orton light it up never surprised me. I knew he was capable of it. It might be too early to say hes the QB for this team, but if he can perform at a high level like he did last sunday, he will go a long ways in proving that he is our man.

Lets not forget that he hasnt really played any meaningul snaps for the past several weeks going into this game. He looked quite impressive considering everything. He has some rust to shake off, but he looked better than Cassel ever has in his 3 years here.

LMAO

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 09:33 PM
The definition of InKansasCity:

Keep signing mediocre QBs and hope for different results.

Well.done sir!

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 09:34 PM
The guy played a great game yesterday. It is what it is.

Tombstone RJ
12-19-2011, 09:38 PM
The guy played a great game yesterday. It is what it is.

or--and stay with me on this b/c it's rocket science--GB had a bad day. Hey listen, do a search of all my posts on Orton here on the planet and see what I've said about the guy.

The win over GB was nice but essentially meaningless. Orton can be good sometimes but he's never great and he stinks in big games. Yesterday's game was completely meaningless and he did ok.

I'll be very suprised if kc beats oakland.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 09:41 PM
or--and stay with me on this b/c it's rocket science--GB had a bad day. Hey listen, do a search of all my posts on Orton here on the planet and see what I've said about the guy.

The win over GB was nice but essentially meaningless. Orton can be good sometimes but he's never great and he stinks in big games. Yesterday's game was completely meaningless and he did ok.

I'll be very suprised if kc beats oakland.

Green Bay had a bad day yup explain why Orton was successful against Green Bay the first time too dumbass? Orton is what he is - Sometimes he can be a damn good QB but he also has Cassel like games. Not the long term answer at QB but would be a great option while we groom a young guy.

Tombstone RJ
12-19-2011, 09:51 PM
Green Bay had a bad day yup explain why Orton was successful against Green Bay the first time too dumbass? Orton is what he is - Sometimes he can be a damn good QB but he also has Cassel like games. Not the long term answer at QB but would be a great option while we groom a young guy.

what young guy--Stanzi? Orton becomes a FA after this year. Do you think Pioli is gonna sign him to a big fat contract? If so, do you think Pioli is going to also draft a QB in the first round?

Freekofnature
12-19-2011, 09:55 PM
almost 300 yards and no tds.

Such a typical orton performance.

BCD
12-19-2011, 10:39 PM
almost 300 yards and no tds.

Such a typical orton performance.

Most of the plays in the red zone were running plays.

BCD
12-19-2011, 10:41 PM
or--and stay with me on this b/c it's rocket science--GB had a bad day. Hey listen, do a search of all my posts on Orton here on the planet and see what I've said about the guy.

The win over GB was nice but essentially meaningless. Orton can be good sometimes but he's never great and he stinks in big games. Yesterday's game was completely meaningless and he did ok.

I'll be very suprised if kc beats oakland.

*sniff*

Yep.

Smells like sour grapes ... :)