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View Full Version : Chiefs Apologies to our O-line


AustinChief
12-18-2011, 07:23 PM
I have been hyper-critical of our O-line all year and I still feel deservedly so. They have played like crap.

BUT I claimed that they were just no good.. it appears instead that they simply QUIT on Haley and now they are willing to PLAY for Crennel.

And please don't say it's all Orton and he makes the line look better, yes there is SOME truth to that but the fact is, the o-line played FAR FAR better today then they have in awhile.

We still need to upgrade our o-line but kudos to them for showing up today.

Urc Burry
12-18-2011, 07:24 PM
Excited to see the PFF stats. Clay mathews was non existant

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 07:28 PM
Barry Richardson wants to know how his ass tastes
when he's not bearhugging

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 07:29 PM
Orton can take a snap & throw it faster than Cassel can add 2+2

Count Alex's Losses
12-18-2011, 07:30 PM
The Packers get all their rush from Matthews for the most part.

I'm betting we assigned multiple guys to him.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-18-2011, 07:30 PM
I have been hyper-critical of our O-line all year and I still feel deservedly so. They have played like crap.

BUT I claimed that they were just no good.. it appears instead that they simply QUIT on Haley and now they are willing to PLAY for Crennel.

And please don't say it's all Orton and he makes the line look better, yes there is SOME truth to that but the fact is, the o-line played FAR FAR better today then they have in awhile.

We still need to upgrade our o-line but kudos to them for showing up today.

Don't make too much out of it. Green Bay is 21st in the NFL in sacks and allow 4.8 yards per rush.

Granted, the rush average is probably inflated due to the Pack often having the lead.

But, the Chiefs average 3.6 yards per carry. This includes a 25 yard run by Breaston.

So, not as impressive as you might think.

I don't know that anyone on the team quit on Haley....but he clearly wasn't getting the most out of them.

</post>
12-18-2011, 07:31 PM
It's hard for anyone to see the o-line clearly when our quarterbacks have been punching us in the face for the past 6 years.

Brock
12-18-2011, 07:32 PM
Their short yardage blocking is pretty bad.

Deberg_1990
12-18-2011, 07:32 PM
I'll bet our Oline is just as good as the Packers. Even at full strength.

Bu yea, let's draft a 1st round right tackle and keep ignoring the QB position.

Count Alex's Losses
12-18-2011, 07:32 PM
It's hard for anyone to see the o-line clearly when our quarterbacks have been punching us in the face for the past 6 years.

The first third down of the game, the Packers sent a guy blitzing off the left side and Orton went to his hot read immediately.

Having a QB who can diagnose coverage and get the ball out quickly makes a huge difference.

As soon as I saw that I thought "no way Cassel does that."

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 07:34 PM
A lot has to do with the QB. I've said this several times this season.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 07:37 PM
Don't make too much out of it. Green Bay is 21st in the NFL in sacks and allow 4.8 yards per rush.

Granted, the rush average is probably inflated due to the Pack often having the lead.

But, the Chiefs average 3.6 yards per carry. This includes a 25 yard run by Breaston.

So, not as impressive as you might think.

I don't know that anyone on the team quit on Haley....but he clearly wasn't getting the most out of them.

Go tongue your daddys taint

Easy 6
12-18-2011, 07:38 PM
Their short yardage blocking is pretty bad.

We're too light & too old in the middle, and for a RT Richardson sucks at run blocking... he just isnt a mauler.

Next year should be better with Hudson at center, a new LG & RT.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 07:39 PM
Their short yardage blocking is pretty bad.

Horrible today

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 07:39 PM
The first third down of the game, the Packers sent a guy blitzing off the left side and Orton went to his hot read immediately.

Having a QB who can diagnose coverage and get the ball out quickly makes a huge difference.

As soon as I saw that I thought "no way Cassel does that."

This. Big time.

The other big thing was that he was exceptional at keeping the defense off-balanced with his playaction fakes and screen passes. He executed those in a way Cassel doesn't. He really tries to sell the play that they're not running, and he waits for the play to develop.

A good screen game is a great way to throw a pass rush off. It punishes a defense for playing too aggressive.

Maybe it's the case that Haley should have called more screens and PAs with Cassel. But it's those small things that Cassel just didn't do--whenever he ran those plays, he gave it away and the play got blown up.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 07:41 PM
I have been hyper-critical of our O-line all year and I still feel deservedly so. They have played like crap.

BUT I claimed that they were just no good.. it appears instead that they simply QUIT on Haley and now they are willing to PLAY for Crennel.

And please don't say it's all Orton and he makes the line look better, yes there is SOME truth to that but the fact is, the o-line played FAR FAR better today then they have in awhile.

We still need to upgrade our o-line but kudos to them for showing up today.
the only thing wrong with this team was Cassel

every player and every coach is super bowl caliber except the QB.


oh yea ... Pioli sucks.

Easy 6
12-18-2011, 07:44 PM
I cant say enough good things about Asamoah, i cant think of a single instance where he's been embarrassed, seems like the best a defender can hope for is a stalemate with him, he consistently stonewalls a bullrush.

He's a legit ten year starter.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 07:44 PM
the only thing wrong with this team was Cassel

every player and every coach is super bowl caliber except the QB.


oh yea ... Pioli sucks.

Retard.

Its obvious Cassel was a big part of the problem.

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 07:45 PM
the only thing wrong with this team was Cassel

every player and every coach is super bowl caliber except the QB.


oh yea ... Pioli sucks.

I think what we learned today is that even a mid-tier QB can make this team pretty dangerous.

Imagine if we had top-shelf QB talent. I still believe we have a better supporting cast than a lot of the top teams in the NFL, especially when we get Charles and Berry and Moeaki back.

Remember. Super Bowl teams usually have big gaps on their roster too.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 07:46 PM
Retard.

Its obvious Cassel was a big part of the problem.
cocksucker


yes, so was that dumbass Haley.

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 07:47 PM
I expect Orton to get hurt & we get to see how they perform for Stanzi

LOCOChief
12-18-2011, 07:48 PM
Go tongue your daddys taint

You know how people have you figured out, as a pussy that is?

Because you turn off your rep and go around back biting like you do.

You can try to say rep doesn't matter but if that were true, why turn it off?

Nope you're a pussy and that's how everyone knows.

Go Chiefs!

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 07:48 PM
cocksucker


yes, so was that dumbass Haley.

Who gives a shit about him? Hes no longer a Chief.

Im not sure who is more clueless about football, you or Senseless

Brock
12-18-2011, 07:50 PM
You know how people have you figured out, as a pussy that is?

Because you turn off your rep and go around back biting like you do.

You can try to say rep doesn't matter but if that were true, why turn it off?

Nope you're a pussy and that's how everyone knows.

Go Chiefs!

Rep doesn't matter, but I bet Dave has a lot more of it than you do.

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 07:52 PM
The first third down of the game, the Packers sent a guy blitzing off the left side and Orton went to his hot read immediately.

Having a QB who can diagnose coverage and get the ball out quickly makes a huge difference.

As soon as I saw that I thought "no way Cassel does that."

As I said (and have always said).. yes the QB can make a big difference on how good/bad the line looks to the casual observer... but if you focus on the line play... they have been AWFUL most of the year... whether it was Cassel or Palko they played FAR worse then the QB ALONE could make them look... and today that simply wasn't the case and it was NOT all Orton (though he definitely made them look better)... They FLAT OUT played better today then they have in awhile.

maybe it's because they quit on Haley (my belief.. I think the line , especially Albert, hated him) maybe it's the play calling.. but if someone says it was just Orton and nothing else then they are blind.

Obviously we still need upgrades ... the biggest indicator of a poor line is how bad we are in the red zone.

BUT again, kudos for them turning in a decent performance today.

johnny961
12-18-2011, 07:53 PM
The first third down of the game, the Packers sent a guy blitzing off the left side and Orton went to his hot read immediately.

Having a QB who can diagnose coverage and get the ball out quickly makes a huge difference.

As soon as I saw that I thought "no way Cassel does that."

This X 2. I thought Orton did a much better job of reading the defense and adjusting accordingly.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 07:54 PM
Orton's willing to take the hit to deliver the pass on that first blitz should of made Cassel put on a dress and skip around Arrowhead.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 07:55 PM
You know how people have you figured out, as a pussy that is?

Because you turn off your rep and go around back biting like you do.

You can try to say rep doesn't matter but if that were true, why turn it off?

Nope you're a pussy and that's how everyone knows.

Go Chiefs!

LMAO okay

I get very little neg rep. I really dont care. This isnt HS.

My rep is off because Daface reset it earlier this year.

You can go fuck yourself though.

ON NO! PLEASE DONT NEG REP ME!

LOCOChief
12-18-2011, 07:55 PM
Rep doesn't matter, but I bet Dave has a lot more of it than you do.

You speaking for Dave?

Rep doesn't matter especially if it's given to someone who says shit like "lick your daddy's taint"

Brianfo
12-18-2011, 07:56 PM
The Packers get all their rush from Matthews for the most part.

I'm betting we assigned multiple guys to him.

When battle scored the last Chiefs TD they showed a replay and Matthews tried to go under our O-Line. Not sure what he was doing, unless he was trying to occupy 2 blockers.

LOCOChief
12-18-2011, 07:56 PM
LMAO okay

I get very little neg rep. I really dont care. This isnt HS.

My rep is off because Daface reset it earlier this year.

You can go **** yourself though.

ON NO! PLEASE DONT NEG REP ME!

I don't hand out neg rep. I was just calling a spade a spade.

Brock
12-18-2011, 07:57 PM
You speaking for Dave?

Rep doesn't matter especially if it's given to someone who says shit like "lick your daddy's taint"

I'm not speaking for anyone, I'm speaking TO you and telling you your opinion is not important enough for anyone to care about. Oh, and lick your daddy's taint.

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 07:57 PM
A lot has to do with the QB. I've said this several times this season.

and A HELL OF A LOT of 0-line play has to do with chemistry and motivation and play calling. Those things all fall on Haley.

Don't get me wrong I don't want Cassel anywhere near this team but take a shitty QB and combine him with a dickhead coach who can't call a game and you have the "perfect storm" of suck that has been our season so far.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 08:06 PM
I don't hand out neg rep. I was just calling a spade a spade.

I miss the part where I posted anything about you until.you.called me out.

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:06 PM
There have been many instances over the last two and a half years when the O-Line failed because they looked confused and didn't appear to know who they were supposed to be blocking.

If that were just an isolated problem, I'd blame Haley and Muir.

But when it continues to happen, that falls on the QB or center, who is responsible for presnap reads and adjustments.

crossbow
12-18-2011, 08:07 PM
Richardson has to go. Wigman needs to retire. Upgrade those positions and we are fine.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 08:09 PM
and A HELL OF A LOT of 0-line play has to do with chemistry and motivation and play calling. Those things all fall on Haley.

Don't get me wrong I don't want Cassel anywhere near this team but take a shitty QB and combine him with a dickhead coach who can't call a game and you have the "perfect storm" of suck that has been our season so far.

You are probably right about Haley. Im sick of Muir. There were some stupid calls in the red zone.

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 08:12 PM
There have been many instances over the last two and a half years when the O-Line failed because they looked confused and didn't appear to know who they were supposed to be blocking.

If that were just an isolated problem, I'd blame Haley and Muir.

But when it continues to happen, that falls on the QB or center, who is responsible for presnap reads and adjustments.

I'm not talking about confusion.. I'm talking about half-assed effort this season... I blame Haley... (I also blame Cassel.. I'm sure that his play frustrated the hell out of them) ...but this game leads me to believe that the line (or select members) just quit on Haley. You can't tell me it doesn't happen all the time in the NFL, because it does.

This is ENTIRELY conjecture because none of us have a clue about what is really happening... just my opinion.

This in NO WAY is a defense of Cassel... NO o-line was going to make him look good.. at best our line(at max effort) could make him look passable against crap opponents (see 2010 season)

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 08:15 PM
You are probably right about Haley. Im sick of Muir. There were some stupid calls in the red zone.

I have seen NOTHING from Muir to convince me that he is qualified to hold the position... BUT I firmly believe that even if you get PERFECT play calling.. you need a team that actually WANTS to play for you. Other than Matt Cassel, Tyler Palko and our WRs.. I think the rest of the team was fed up.

thabear04
12-18-2011, 08:21 PM
Maybe the O-Line finally said Hey we got our self a real QB. Lets protect him and get on are blocks.

Munson
12-18-2011, 08:23 PM
For the first time all year, Richardson wasn't the worst lineman on the field.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 08:24 PM
Maybe the O-Line finally said Hey we got our self a real QB. Lets protect him and get on are blocks.yea, that's it.

losing games wasn't enough

it was all being mad at the QB

:facepalm:

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:25 PM
I'm not talking about confusion.. I'm talking about half-assed effort this season... I blame Haley... (I also blame Cassel.. I'm sure that his play frustrated the hell out of them) ...but this game leads me to believe that the line (or select members) just quit on Haley. You can't tell me it doesn't happen all the time in the NFL, because it does.

This is ENTIRELY conjecture because none of us have a clue about what is really happening... just my opinion.

This in NO WAY is a defense of Cassel... NO o-line was going to make him look good.. at best our line(at max effort) could make him look passable against crap opponents (see 2010 season)

I think that once confusion becomes an issue, it affects effort, or perceived effort.

I can not begin to tell you how many times over the last couple of years I've watched as an O-Lineman turned his head as he was engaging a defender, as if looking tomake sure he was picking up the right defender.

When they turn their head, they lose any advantage.

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:27 PM
I have never seen either Albert or Richardson look as sure about what they were doing as they did today.

Richardson manhandles and stood up Clay Matthews a couple of time today.

Who would have thought that was possible?

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 08:27 PM
Palko would drop back so far
It would take all his arm strength to get back to the line of scrimage

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:28 PM
And Albert probably had his best game today as a pro.

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:29 PM
Someone said in another thread that the Chiefs gave up 1 pressure and 0 sacks today.

Think about that.

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 08:30 PM
I think that once confusion becomes an issue, it affects effort, or perceived effort.

I can not begin to tell you how many times over the last couple of years I've watched as an O-Lineman turned his head as he was engaging a defender, as if looking tomake sure he was picking up the right defender.

When they turn their head, they lose any advantage.

Oh I'm not arguing AGAINST confusion.. I'm not arguing against bad QB play..I'm saying that I think there was even more to it. I guess my point is that the entire team is going to benefit NOT JUST from Cassel's departure but also we'll see a lot of benefit from the players not dealing with a headcase for a head coach.

It's definitely very encouraging.. so long as next year we don't take a step backwards and try to fit a square QB (Cassel) into a round hole (a starting job on an NFL team)

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 08:32 PM
And Albert probably had his best game today as a pro.

Which to me reinforces my thought that Albert hated playing for Haley and wasn't playing anywhere near potential... of course it can be interpreted in many ways... having a decent QB certainly helps as well.

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:34 PM
Oh I'm not arguing AGAINST confusion.. I'm not arguing against bad QB play..I'm saying that I think there was even more to it. I guess my point is that the entire team is going to benefit NOT JUST from Cassel's departure but also we'll see a lot of benefit from the players not dealing with a headcase for a head coach.

It's definitely very encouraging.. so long as next year we don't take a step backwards and try to fit a square QB (Cassel) into a round hole (a starting job on an NFL team)

My point is, I don't think the O-Line ever quit.

I think confusion has a lot to do with the perception that they did.

I would argue that the receivers did quit a couple of games ago, though.

Today, they caught damn near everything.

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:36 PM
I think there were problems with this team that were clearly due to Haley's decisions, especially at QB.

But I think the biggest problems on offense begins and ends with QB play.

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 08:37 PM
My point is, I don't think the O-Line ever quit.

I think confusion has a lot to do with the perception that they did.

I would argue that the receivers did quit a couple of games ago, though.

Today, they caught damn near everything.

I disagree on the o-line.. but too many variables involved that we'll never know an answer to that unless the exact same line returns next year and Cassel starts .. and GOD I hope there is no chance for that.

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 08:38 PM
I think there were problems with this team that were clearly due to Haley's decisions, especially at QB.

But I think the biggest problems on offense begins and ends with QB play.

Yeah, we both agree that QB and Haley were massive problems.. we just disagree on levels of blame... if we're lucky we'll never know because they both will be gone from here on out.

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:43 PM
Yeah, we both agree that QB and Haley were massive problems.. we just disagree on levels of blame... if we're lucky we'll never know because they both will be gone from here on out.

I've already said this, but at the risk of being redundant, I have no faith in Pioli to do the right thing here.

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 08:49 PM
I've already said this, but at the risk of being redundant, I have no faith in Pioli to do the right thing here.

I think it's gone past that point.. whether it is Clark Hunt intervening or Pioli wising up or all Haley's fault(doubtful) .. I feel that Pioli knows that the fans have given up on Cassel and the status quo and expect big changes.

He MAY be able to get away with keeping Crennel as HC if we win out and definitely if we back into the playoffs... but otherwise I think we have gone SO FAR backwards over the last season that he has little choice but to move at least somewhat in the right direction.

I'm not super excited about Crennel as HC but if he wins out, he will have earned a VERY legit shot at it.

What 'wrong thing" do you foresee Pioli doing? (because I just can't IMAGINE he would keep Cassel as anything but a backup at this point) And I'm seriously asking here... you very well may be thinking of ways he can fuck up that haven't occurred to me.

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:59 PM
I think it's gone past that point.. whether it is Clark Hunt intervening or Pioli wising up or all Haley's fault(doubtful) .. I feel that Pioli knows that the fans have given up on Cassel and the status quo and expect big changes.

He MAY be able to get away with keeping Crennel as HC if we win out and definitely if we back into the playoffs... but otherwise I think we have gone SO FAR backwards over the last season that he has little choice but to move at least somewhat in the right direction.

I'm not super excited about Crennel as HC but if he wins out, he will have earned a VERY legit shot at it.

What 'wrong thing" do you foresee Pioli doing? (because I just can't IMAGINE he would keep Cassel as anything but a backup at this point) And I'm seriously asking here... you very well may be thinking of ways he can **** up that haven't occurred to me.

I fully expect him to bring Cassel back, selling the idea that he should have the chance with a better coach.

AustinChief
12-18-2011, 09:15 PM
I fully expect him to bring Cassel back, selling the idea that he should have the chance with a better coach.

I am getting a strong feeling that he knows that ship has sailed... I could MAYBE see him doing the "competition" thing and allowing him to compete for the job in training camp. If you are right, I'll lobby for both him and whoever is the HC and OC to be fired at once.

Let's pray I'm right on this.

milkman
12-18-2011, 09:20 PM
I am getting a strong feeling that he knows that ship has sailed... I could MAYBE see him doing the "competition" thing and allowing him to compete for the job in training camp. If you are right, I'll lobby for both him and whoever is the HC and OC to be fired at once.

Let's pray I'm right on this.

The one thing that gives me any hope otherwise is Crennel's comment regarding Orton's future with the Chiefs, but I think that's a bit premature on Crennel's part, since he is only interim at this point.

However, that comment might suggest that the Chiefs are already working behind the scenes to extend Orton.

Chiefshrink
12-18-2011, 09:23 PM
4 FGs and 1 rush TD. Still a lot of work to do on our red zone run blocking but it was very efficient between the 20's I agree and it kept Rogers off the field.

Chiefshrink
12-18-2011, 09:31 PM
The one thing that gives me any hope otherwise is Crennel's comment regarding Orton's future with the Chiefs, but I think that's a bit premature on Crennel's part, since he is only interim at this point.

However, that comment might suggest that the Chiefs are already working behind the scenes to extend Orton.

Although I don't believe Orton is our QBOTF, he will be a nice transitional QB to have start until we determine if Stanzi is the manzi and a helluva nice b/u to have at the least.:thumb:

Chiefshrink
12-18-2011, 09:47 PM
I am getting a strong feeling that he knows that ship has sailed... I could MAYBE see him doing the "competition" thing and allowing him to compete for the job in training camp. If you are right, I'll lobby for both him and whoever is the HC and OC to be fired at once.

Let's pray I'm right on this.

Let's hope you are right and we will soon know how fragile Pioli's ego is if he still continues to force a round peg in a square hole in reference to Cassel. But when you are a rookie GM whose first move was to acquire a QB for a 2nd rd pick and then give him 60 mil the next year, those are big moves that you just don't casually put on that ship that has already sailed from a rookie GM's point of reference. Because then he is admitting that he f'd up big time.

This is why I say we will soon learn how mature he is in reference to the QB situation and IMO the sooner he admits he messed up the more likely the fan base will respect and give him more time to get it right. But if continues the definition of insanity with Cassel he will be gone along with Cassel in due time.

HonestChieffan
12-18-2011, 10:12 PM
Don't make too much out of it. Green Bay is 21st in the NFL in sacks and allow 4.8 yards per rush.

Granted, the rush average is probably inflated due to the Pack often having the lead.

But, the Chiefs average 3.6 yards per carry. This includes a 25 yard run by Breaston.

So, not as impressive as you might think.

I don't know that anyone on the team quit on Haley....but he clearly wasn't getting the most out of them.

Jones averaged more than 2 yards a carry so we should be dancing in the street

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-18-2011, 10:58 PM
I have been hyper-critical of our O-line all year and I still feel deservedly so. They have played like crap.

BUT I claimed that they were just no good.. it appears instead that they simply QUIT on Haley and now they are willing to PLAY for Crennel.

And please don't say it's all Orton and he makes the line look better, yes there is SOME truth to that but the fact is, the o-line played FAR FAR better today then they have in awhile.

We still need to upgrade our o-line but kudos to them for showing up today.

It could also be option 3: Green Bay's pass rush is ridiculously overrated.

AustinChief
12-19-2011, 06:18 AM
It could also be option 3: Green Bay's pass rush is ridiculously overrated.

There is no question on that... BUT that doesn't TOTALLY negate how much better our o-line played... I am NOT saying they played at an all-pro level... but it would take a complete idiot to say they didn't play BETTER then they have in quite a few weeks. This is a moot point now, because milkman and I have clearly show that it would be almost impossible to prove WHY they played so much better this week... but we can all agree that they did and we pray to whatever deity there may be that it doesn't regress from here.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 07:16 AM
There is no question on that... BUT that doesn't TOTALLY negate how much better our o-line played... I am NOT saying they played at an all-pro level... but it would take a complete idiot to say they didn't play BETTER then they have in quite a few weeks. This is a moot point now, because milkman and I have clearly show that it would be almost impossible to prove WHY they played so much better this week... but we can all agree that they did and we pray to whatever deity there may be that it doesn't regress from here.

I think it's a combination of three factors:

1) The desire to impress a "new" boss (basic psychology, really)
2) A weak opponent (GB is much more like the 2000 Rams than the 1999 version, but Rodgers has played so well he's masked all that)
3) The randomness of the smallest of sample sizes. I saw Tyler Thigpen outplay Brett Favre in an NFL game once. Barry Richardson dominating Clay Matthews pales in comparison.

BoneKrusher
12-19-2011, 07:50 AM
the only thing wrong with this team was Cassel

every player and every coach is super bowl caliber except the QB.


oh yea ... Pioli sucks.

i agree, any team you name is only as good as their starting QB.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 09:24 AM
The Buffalo Bills have 18 sacks on the ENTIRE season. They sacked Matt Cassel twice in the very first game of the season, before anybody on this team had "given up" on Haley.

The lengths that some on this board will go to explain away the importance of the QB position is mind-boggling.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 09:27 AM
The Buffalo Bills have 18 sacks on the ENTIRE season. They sacked Matt Cassel twice in the very first game of the season, before anybody on this team had "given up" on Haley.

The lengths that some on this board will go to explain away the importance of the QB position is mind-boggling.

Still this OL needs a 3 new starters and some depth...

We need an RG. LG and RT...

rocknrolla
12-19-2011, 09:29 AM
The first third down of the game, the Packers sent a guy blitzing off the left side and Orton went to his hot read immediately.

Having a QB who can diagnose coverage and get the ball out quickly makes a huge difference.

As soon as I saw that I thought "no way Cassel does that."
I had forgotten what that looked like until Orton was in the the pocket. I was impressed.
Posted via Mobile Device

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 09:39 AM
Still this OL needs a 3 new starters and some depth...

We need an RG. LG and RT...

Every single one of them looked fine yesterday.

We need a QB. If we don't get one, nothing else matters.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 09:47 AM
Every single one of them looked fine yesterday.

We need a QB. If we don't get one, nothing else matters.


right, get the QB and fix the OL, what is so hard to understand about it?

mlyonsd
12-19-2011, 09:50 AM
The next two weeks will be a better test IMO. Oakland and Denver defenses are better IMO and they'll have the opportunity to watch Orton and the offense on game film. Something GB didn't get a chance to do.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 09:53 AM
right, get the QB and fix the OL, what is so hard to understand about it?

The thing is, we already have Hudson. We could use an upgrade at RT. But what exactly needs to be "fixed"? They weren't just adequate yesterday, they were solid.

Getting a good QB is part of the "fix" of the offensive line - the single biggest part actually.

Frosty
12-19-2011, 10:10 AM
The next two weeks will be a better test IMO. Oakland and Denver defenses are better IMO and they'll have the opportunity to watch Orton and the offense on game film. Something GB didn't get a chance to do.

True, but Orton should be better, too, as his finger gets better and he gets more practice time with the WRs.

ILChief
12-19-2011, 10:18 AM
Every single one of them looked fine yesterday.

We need a QB. If we don't get one, nothing else matters.

We have Albert, Hudson, and Asamoah (sp?). We need a guard and a right tackle to replace wiegman and richardson

I quoted the wrong post

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 10:19 AM
We have Albert, Hudson, and Asamoah (sp?). We need a guard and a right tackle to replace wiegman and richardson

We NEED to replace Cassel.

We would do well to also replace Wiegmann with Hudson and acquire a G and RT.

We NEED to replace Cassel.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 10:22 AM
We NEED to replace Cassel.

We would do well to also replace Wiegmann with Hudson and acquire a G and RT.

We NEED to replace Cassel.

Wait are you sure we NEED to replace Cassel?


We need to Replace Lilja, Wiegman and Richardson.. AFTER, repeat AFTER we address the QB... And add some Depth.

Its not like we are trying to understand Rocket Surgery here.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 10:23 AM
The thing is, we already have Hudson. We could use an upgrade at RT. But what exactly needs to be "fixed"? They weren't just adequate yesterday, they were solid.

Getting a good QB is part of the "fix" of the offensive line - the single biggest part actually.

LG and RT after a QB are pretty damn important...

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 10:25 AM
Wait are you sure we NEED to replace Cassel?


We need to Replace Lilja, Wiegman and Richardson.. AFTER, repeat AFTER we address the QB... And add some Depth.

Its not like we are trying to understand Rocket Surgery here.

Yesterday showed us that we don't NEED to replace Richardson. With a real QB behind center, the guys across from him didn't even breathe on the QB, let alone sack him.

With a GOOD QB, we would have been ahead 21-0 at the end of the 1st quarter, against the undefeated SB champs, WITH Barry Richardson.

I know it's popular to bust on the offensive line - for a fanbase that hasn't seen a real QB in nearly 2 decades, it's probably to be expected. It's hard to understand the value of a franchise QB when the closest you've come is having an All-World, once-in-a-lifetime offensive line.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 10:29 AM
Yesterday showed us that we don't NEED to replace Richardson. With a real QB behind center, the guys across from him didn't even breathe on the QB, let alone sack him.

With a GOOD QB, we would have been ahead 21-0 at the end of the 1st quarter, against the undefeated SB champs, WITH Barry Richardson.

I know it's popular to bust on the offensive line - for a fanbase that hasn't seen a real QB in nearly 2 decades, it's probably to be expected. It's hard to understand the value of a franchise QB when the closest you've come is having an All-World, once-in-a-lifetime offensive line.

ROFL

You still upgrade the OL regardless of your QB....

You go get a QB and you protect him with the best you can get... Period end of thread.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 10:39 AM
ROFL

You still upgrade the OL regardless of your QB....

You go get a QB and you protect him with the best you can get... Period end of thread.

If the don't get a new, CAPABLE QB, there's absolutely no reason to upgrade the offensive line.

You cannot win in this league without a QB. You CAN win with a piss poor offensive line. Several teams are doing it.

Dicky McElephant
12-19-2011, 10:40 AM
If the don't get a new, CAPABLE QB, there's absolutely no reason to upgrade the offensive line.

You cannot win in this league without a QB. You CAN win with a piss poor offensive line. Several teams are doing it.

This.

Dicky McElephant
12-19-2011, 10:41 AM
I know Barry Richardson isn't great.....or even good. But I'm wondering how much of it is a confidence issue. He knows that with Cassel back there....he has to hold his block for even longer.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 10:42 AM
I know Barry Richardson isn't great.....or even good. But I'm wondering how much of it is a confidence issue. He knows that with Cassel back there....he has to hold his block for even longer.

Good point.

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 10:45 AM
Oh lord, now we don't have to replace Richardson? People need to get a grip. Run blocking has been atrocious all year, including yesterday. Richardson has 1 decent game of pass blocking and he's getting a pass?

Dicky McElephant
12-19-2011, 10:48 AM
Oh lord, now we don't have to replace Richardson? People need to get a grip. Run blocking has been atrocious all year, including yesterday. Richardson has 1 decent game of pass blocking and he's getting a pass?

I'm not giving him a pass. I think he needs to be replaced.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 10:55 AM
Oh lord, now we don't have to replace Richardson? People need to get a grip. Run blocking has been atrocious all year, including yesterday. Richardson has 1 decent game of pass blocking and he's getting a pass?

Did I say that?

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 10:59 AM
Yesterday showed us that we don't NEED to replace Richardson. With a real QB behind center, the guys across from him didn't even breathe on the QB, let alone sack him.


[QUOTE=htismaqe;8219007]Did I say that?

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 11:06 AM
Note the emphasis on the word "need".

prhom
12-19-2011, 11:30 AM
The thing is, we already have Hudson. We could use an upgrade at RT. But what exactly needs to be "fixed"? They weren't just adequate yesterday, they were solid.

Getting a good QB is part of the "fix" of the offensive line - the single biggest part actually.

I agree that the QB can help make a line look better. However, I wouldn't call the line "solid" based simply on how we couldn't power run in short yardage. We did get one short td run, but got shut down on three others. That's mostly on the line. The great protection Orton had other times was greatly enhanced by his excellent play-action skills.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 11:35 AM
I agree that the QB can help make a line look better. However, I wouldn't call the line "solid" based simply on how we couldn't power run in short yardage. We did get one short td run, but got shut down on three others. That's mostly on the line. The great protection Orton had other times was greatly enhanced by his excellent play-action skills.

Predictable playcalling doesn't help.

Orton was selling the playfake HARD all day - the announcers even mentioned that it would be a good time for a boot because that side of the field was wide open on EVERY play...

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 11:36 AM
What's the deal on Hudson?

I was hoping that Romeo was going to bench Lilja. Both Haley and Romeo stuck with Lilja.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 11:38 AM
What's the deal on Hudson?

I was hoping that Romeo was going to bench Lilja. Both Haley and Romeo stuck with Lilja.

Is it possible they feel his long-term fit is at center and he just can't beat out Wiegmann yet? Physically, he's probably better-suited for center, right?

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 11:40 AM
Is it possible they feel his long-term fit is at center and he just can't beat out Wiegmann yet? Physically, he's probably better-suited for center, right?

I could be wrong, but I thought he played just as well as Lilja at guard.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 11:47 AM
I could be wrong, but I thought he played just as well as Lilja at guard.

I did too, but maybe that's not what the team wants out of him long-term?

Dexter Manley
12-19-2011, 11:51 AM
Is it possible they feel his long-term fit is at center and he just can't beat out Wiegmann yet? Physically, he's probably better-suited for center, right?


Rookie OLs were the hardest hit by the strike shortened offseason.

Chief Faithful
12-19-2011, 01:04 PM
I know Barry Richardson isn't great.....or even good. But I'm wondering how much of it is a confidence issue. He knows that with Cassel back there....he has to hold his block for even longer.

If by confidence you are referring to the mental part of the game I agree that is Richardson's biggest issue. He has been starting too long for these inconsistency issues. In my mind RT should be a priority in the draft and FA.

Chief Faithful
12-19-2011, 01:06 PM
We NEED to replace Cassel.

We would do well to also replace Wiegmann with Hudson and acquire a G and RT.

We NEED to replace Cassel.

I think this year has revealed needs at QB, LG, RT, TE and RB.

Buckweath
12-19-2011, 03:18 PM
We need to draft a top QB prospect 10 times before replacing Barry Richardson, who is in fact one of the worst Oline tackles in the league.

I swear you can win a Superbowl with Richardson as your RT if you have a very good QB.

This offseason is all about drafting a top Qb prospect and then replacing Richardson and adding depth (NT, S, TE, ...).

But make no mistake, even before that Chiefs-Packers game, our Oline this year has been nothing worse than average even with the poor play of Richardson.

And as it has been said, this team is truly a top 10-15 QB away from being a contender every year.

Dicky McElephant
12-19-2011, 03:34 PM
Grab a QB in Round 1. Grab a RT in Round 2.

Cave Johnson
12-19-2011, 03:41 PM
Who'da thunk having a QB that can make hot reads, sell fakes, and look off DBs would make the line look better?

Buckweath
12-19-2011, 03:54 PM
Grab a QB in Round 1. Grab a RT in Round 2.

That`s what I would do but if needed I would much rather trade up with that 2nd round pick along with our 1st and more.

The Vikings and Rams have holes everywhere on their roster. For a good offer they would be stupid not to trade down considering they already have their QB of the future.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 04:07 PM
Who'da thunk having a QB that can make hot reads, sell fakes, and look off DBs would make the line look better?

dont forget "tricking the safeties" in your football cliche's

Cave Johnson
12-19-2011, 04:14 PM
dont forget "tricking the safeties" in your football cliche's

So Orton didn't do any of those "cliches" yesterday?

Coogs
12-27-2011, 10:23 AM
The next two weeks will be a better test IMO. Oakland and Denver defenses are better IMO and they'll have the opportunity to watch Orton and the offense on game film. Something GB didn't get a chance to do.

Personally, I thought the O-line did a pretty fair job against what is a "better" Oakland defense. Against the Packers, I believe we gave up 0 sacks and 1 pressure. Against the Raiders, 0 sacks again, and even though there was more than 1 pressure, there was still time for Orton to make his reads.

After 2 weeks, Cassel still appears to be the problem, not the O-line.

Chiefnj2
12-27-2011, 10:42 AM
After 2 weeks, Cassel still appears to be the problem, not the O-line.

How's the short yardage rushing coming along?

Coogs
12-27-2011, 11:02 AM
How's the short yardage rushing coming along?

A QB appears to be fixing the pass blocking problems. Maybe a RB could fix the 3rd/4th and 1 stuation.

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 11:06 AM
Well we r still in need of a QB and OL HELP

Coogs
12-27-2011, 11:08 AM
Well we r still in need of a QB and OL HELP

Agree totally.

O.city
12-27-2011, 11:11 AM
Get a qb, replace the RT and get a LG and we are on our way.

Coogs
12-27-2011, 11:17 AM
Get a qb, replace the RT and get a LG and we are on our way.

If Richardson gets by this week with Dumervil/Miller comming off the edge, then RT may not be as huge of a need as when Cassel was our QB. Two games with Orton, 0 sacks, and only a few pressures.

htismaqe
12-27-2011, 11:23 AM
How's the short yardage rushing coming along?

Our guys give new meaning to the term "scat back"...

HemiEd
12-27-2011, 11:33 AM
How's the short yardage rushing coming along?

4th and 3 inches, a deep handoff to Battle? Any other OC would have done a QB sneak on that play.

Frankie
12-27-2011, 11:44 AM
Get a qb, replace the RT and get a LG and we are on our way.

We still need to solve the C situation. We need to know where Hudson fits or does he at all. This also goes for a couple of other raw young guys we have on the bench.

Also if we luck into a stud LT should we not consider moving Albert to LG or has the time for that switch passed?

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 11:49 AM
So Orton didn't do any of those "cliches" yesterday?

Actually we saw the True Orton in the Oakland game...

I look to Denver to put him on his ass several times this coming weekend...

Dexter Manley
12-27-2011, 12:38 PM
I love this. Sacks happen when the QB is still holding the ball when someone like me gets there. Sacks are about time. Now, when there is a new QB in there, the plays get scaled back, and the ball comes out quickly. That makes it much harder to get sacks, even with the same OL...

It also produces something like 13 points a game of total offense... but as long as there wasn't an actual sack allowed, the pass protection must have been "pefect."

chiefzilla1501
12-27-2011, 12:45 PM
Actually we saw the True Orton in the Oakland game...

I look to Denver to put him on his ass several times this coming weekend...

What's the true orton? We moved the ball very well then struggled mightily in the red zone.

You're in trouble when your qb is your best shot at getting int the end zone. Tj and battle are atrocious in the red zone. Our play calling is even worse.

Dexter Manley
12-27-2011, 01:50 PM
"What's the true orton? We moved the ball very well then struggled mightily in the red zone"

Quick throw offense works well when safeties are back, not so well when they aren't because there isn't a deep field to defend...

morphius
12-27-2011, 02:17 PM
4th and 3 inches, a deep handoff to Battle? Any other OC would have done a QB sneak on that play.
And that is why you are not an OC, you would sneak with Seymour versus Wiegmann. Sorry, but Wiegmann loses that battle 10 out of 10 times.

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 02:41 PM
What's the true orton? We moved the ball very well then struggled mightily in the red zone.

You're in trouble when your qb is your best shot at getting int the end zone. Tj and battle are atrocious in the red zone. Our play calling is even worse.

You just answered your own question...

Same shit Denver fans were complaining about during his tenure...

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 02:42 PM
And I want to appologize to the OL. Even though there were plenty of fans ready to blow you after GB...

You still have serious holes that need upgraded...

O.city
12-27-2011, 03:01 PM
I hope we draft a lt in the first and trade back into the first to get a lg. Put together the best offensive line in football. Just so reerun and sac will shut the fuck up about it.


We had one of the best offensive lines in the history of the NFL and didnt win a playoff game. Until we get a franchise qb it doesnt matter what we do

Brock
12-27-2011, 03:03 PM
I don't want to waste draft picks just so reerun and sac will shut the fuck up.

Cave Johnson
12-27-2011, 03:14 PM
You just answered your own question...

Same shit Denver fans were complaining about during his tenure...

It's easy to stall in the redzone with a brokedick power back, TE, and OC.

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 03:16 PM
I don't want to waste draft picks just so reerun and sac will shut the **** up.

Spoken like a True Fan...

Who is wanting to waste Draft picks? Please explain... Otherwise your hoping you shit slinging sticks...

Brock
12-27-2011, 03:17 PM
Spoken like a True Fan...

Who is wanting to waste Draft picks? Please explain... Otherwise your hoping you shit slinging sticks...

Read the post before mine, idiot.

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 03:20 PM
Read the post before mine, idiot.

ROFL

Looking for your evidence that I am wasting draft picks...

Brock
12-27-2011, 03:21 PM
ROFL

Looking for your evidence that I am wasting draft picks...

Dear god, you are stupid. I didn't say you were "wasting draft picks". Read the post before mine, then read my post. Do it over and over again until the meaning sinks into what passes for your brain.

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 03:22 PM
I don't want to waste draft picks just so reerun and sac will shut the **** up.


So answer me this asshat... Who is wasting draft picks?

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 03:23 PM
Dear god, you are stupid. I didn't say you were "wasting draft picks". Read the post before mine, then read my post. Do it over and over again until the meaning sinks into what passes for your brain.

I love it... I own your soul... Cry baby...

Brock
12-27-2011, 03:24 PM
So answer me this asshat... Who is wasting draft picks?

Spending a first round draft pick on a LT as that poster suggested would be a waste of a first round draft pick.

Do you get it now?

Brock
12-27-2011, 03:25 PM
I love it... I own your soul... Cry baby...

Seriously, you are mind numbingly dumb. Speaking to you is a waste of time.

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 03:29 PM
Spending a first round draft pick on a LT as that poster suggested would be a waste of a first round draft pick.

Do you get it now?

IF you want to draft a LT in the first round when we need a QB desperately makes you a bigger dumbass moron than I orginally thought.

Well done True Fan...

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 03:30 PM
Seriously, you are mind numbingly dumb. Speaking to you is a waste of time.

Please stop then... Because you and your RG 1st round draft pick makes me sick...

Please die in an aids fire and take your true fan shit somewhere else...

Brock
12-27-2011, 03:42 PM
IF you want to draft a LT in the first round when we need a QB desperately makes you a bigger dumbass moron than I orginally thought.

Well done True Fan...

:LOL: God. So stupid. So very stupid.

Reerun_KC
12-27-2011, 03:44 PM
:LOL: God. So stupid. So very stupid.

Such a pussy rebuttle....


But would expect nothing less... You come in make stupid fucking claims then resort to name calling when you get your ass handed to you...

Cry baby...

Frankie
12-28-2011, 12:31 AM
I hope we draft a lt in the first and trade back into the first to get a lg.
If we got a stud LT in the first wouldn't we be switching Albert to LG? I know you are being sarcastic, but that would still be the point. :)

We had one of the best offensive lines in the history of the NFL and didnt win a playoff game. Until we get a franchise qb it doesnt matter what we doTrent Green was the closest thing we've had to a franchise QB. The problem was not the QB. It was that crime GRob committed on KC that Vermeil allowed.