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Coogs
12-18-2011, 06:52 PM
Quick but rambling thoughts after the Chiefs actually beat the Packers


Sam Mellinger

The Kansas City Star

The start of many good things to come in KC #CHIEFS

— Eric Hosmer, @Hos3KC, on Twitter after the Chiefs beat the Packers 19-14.

That’s the hope, anyway. There are real reasons to believe in this, that what we saw Sunday is more than the NFL’s lean toward weekly parity, and most of that involves the welcome realization that the Chiefs just found their permanent head coach in Romeo Crennel.

Expect the “interim” to get shaved off Crennel’s title soon enough. We’ll get into that more in the column, so for now, the relevant blog question is how much of what we saw against the Packers is a one-week emotional bounce from a coaching change^ and how much of it was the fact that Kansas City played with a professional-grade quarterback for the first time since Matt Cassel’s hand injury more than a month ago.

^ The easy read is to say the players hated Todd Haley, and showed it by playing hard against and beating the Packers. I just don’t buy that. I think the players, very generally speaking, liked Haley. I do think they like Crennel more, and that Crennel is a better fit going forward.

The Packers don’t have a great defense. They entered this week’s games 16th in points surrendered and dead last in yards.

Some of that can be misleading, because they’re so often playing with big leads, but it’s safe to say this isn’t the ‘85 Bears.

But, still, there is no doubt that Orton is at least a competent quarterback, able to take snaps and make reads and give everyone involved confidence that he’s not about to turn the ball over.

It sounds so simple, but worth remembering.

The Chiefs didn’t ask Orton to do a whole lot against Green Bay. They ran a lot of screens, almost exclusively short passes, mostly tried to stay in good rhythm and protect the football.

This is basic stuff, but, for the first time in more than a month, within their quarterback’s ability. The expectation is that the Chiefs will give Orton more plays this week, and more the week after.

The projections on what kind of impact Crennel can have — the subject of tomorrow’s column — are much more reliant on guesses and reading between lines than the projections on what Orton can be.

Orton, it certainly appears, is essentially Matt Cassel. His strengths — despite some much talked about struggles this year with Denver — are protecting the football and letting playmakers around him do the heavy lifting.

After the game, Crennel allowed that Orton might be the guy into the future, even after Cassel is healthy. That decision will be made soon enough, most likely based on intangibles like leadership (for which Chiefs’ decision-makers have constantly complimented Cassel).

For now, though, the encouraging thing is that Orton is at least good enough that we can see what everyone else can do, too.



Read more: http://mellinger.kansascity.com/entries/quick-rambling-thoughts-after-chiefs-actually-beat-packers/#ixzz1gwP5bRZ1

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 06:55 PM
Crennel for president!!!

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 06:56 PM
He may be Matt Cassel. But he's a souped up version of it. The big difference being that Orton executed the plays Cassel could not.

Count Zarth
12-18-2011, 06:57 PM
Orton, it certainly appears, is essentially Matt Cassel.

How can you be so fucking dumb, Mellinger.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 06:57 PM
Orton is better than Cassel. That doesn't mean Orton is all-world, it means that Cassel is shit. He's simply better than Cassel, IMO.

FAX
12-18-2011, 06:58 PM
I didn't see the game, but based on reading the play-by-play on NFL.com, it looked like some of those passes were deep. No?

FAX

Guru
12-18-2011, 06:58 PM
if he runs cassel out of town he can have the job.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 06:58 PM
How can you be so ****ing dumb, Mellinger.

If Orton was Cassel why would Crennel talk about Orton replacing him even when he gets healthy.

DRU
12-18-2011, 06:59 PM
Essentially Cassel my ass. I haven't seen a Chiefs QB walk up to the line, point out defensive holes, read through his progression and find the open man the way Orton did today in years.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 06:59 PM
I didn't see the game, but based on reading the play-by-play on NFL.com, it looked like some of those passes were deep. No?

FAX

Let's just say it was nice to see a QB go through his progressions and not crap his pants if the primary receiver wasn't open.

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 07:00 PM
I don't think Mellinger watched the game.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 07:00 PM
13 yards per completions. Cassel has never done that this season.

Guru
12-18-2011, 07:00 PM
13 yards per completions. Cassel has never done that this season.

has he ever done that

QuikSsurfer
12-18-2011, 07:00 PM
I didn't see the game, but based on reading the play-by-play on NFL.com, it looked like some of those passes were deep. No?

FAX

He hit a couple deep passes to a wide open Pope - looked good.

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 07:00 PM
If Orton was Cassel why would Crennel talk about Orton replacing him even when he gets healthy.

Doesn't make sense does it.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 07:01 PM
Senseless wrote this shit

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 07:01 PM
I didn't see the game, but based on reading the play-by-play on NFL.com, it looked like some of those passes were deep. No?

FAX

Not a ton of deep stuff. But a lot of intermediate stuff.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2011, 07:02 PM
has he ever done that

The loss in Denver last yr, probably

Mr_Tomahawk
12-18-2011, 07:02 PM
13 yards per completions. Cassel has never done that this season.

has he ever done that

This...

Coogs
12-18-2011, 07:02 PM
I didn't see the game, but based on reading the play-by-play on NFL.com, it looked like some of those passes were deep. No?

FAX

Yes. And to open receivers too. Fit some nice long throws into coverage that could have been caught but were not, but they would have been tough catches too.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 07:02 PM
Don't commit to Orton too quickly ... let him play and see what happens. We threw out a big contract to Cassel quickly and it's biting us in the butt. If Orton continues to improve then keep him around for awhile. I still want to continue to look for an elite QB.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 07:03 PM
Doesn't make sense does it.


And why would Crennel talk about keeping Orton when he's due to be a free agent after this year and Cassel is still under contract? If Cassel = Orton don't keep the guy that you'd have to pay to keep. Cassel is shit, let him go.

Count Zarth
12-18-2011, 07:03 PM
13 yards per completions. Cassel has never done that this season.

Orton averaged 9.6 YPA.

Cassel has ONE GAME in the last three years better than that and he only threw it 18 times.

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 07:03 PM
If they go with Crennel
THEY CAN NOT go into the Pat's well for OC
Pioli surley will want to look like his own man in some fashion

FAX
12-18-2011, 07:03 PM
He hit a couple deep passes to a wide open Pope - looked good.

Thanks.

With this; "They ran a lot of screens, almost exclusively short passes, mostly tried to stay in good rhythm and protect the football." Mellinger makes it sound like Orton never took it deep.

FAX

Coogs
12-18-2011, 07:03 PM
Not a ton of deep stuff. But a lot of intermediate stuff.

Probably more this FAX, but a few deep balls too that were pretty much on the mark.

johnny961
12-18-2011, 07:04 PM
I was kinda surprised at the QB remark Crennel made in the post game interview. Flat out stated something to the effect of if Orton continued to play at a high level that it was something that would have to be evaluated going forward into next year. Sounded as though Crennel wasn't opposed to real competition at the QB position going forward. Something I as a fan have wanted to see.

wazu
12-18-2011, 07:04 PM
"The Chiefs didn't ask Orton to do a whole lot." He threw for 300 yards. That's three games for Cassel.

FAX
12-18-2011, 07:05 PM
Ah ... thanks, guys.

We had some chunks in that game based on the play-by-play thing. It caught my eye because I am unused to seeing that in our offensive stats.

FAX

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 07:05 PM
And why would Crennel talk about keeping Orton when he's due to be a free agent after this year and Cassel is still under contract?

For some reason people think resigning Orton is a done deal.

QuikSsurfer
12-18-2011, 07:05 PM
Thanks.

With this; "They ran a lot of screens, almost exclusively short passes, mostly tried to stay in good rhythm and protect the football." Mellinger makes it sound like Orton never took it deep.

FAX

If you missed seeing the game, you missed some textbook playaction by Orton. He was fooling the announcers.

QuikSsurfer
12-18-2011, 07:06 PM
"The Chiefs didn't ask Orton to do a whole lot." He threw for 300 yards. That's three games for Cassel.

Statistically, that's 3.6 games for Cassel.

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 07:06 PM
"The Chiefs didn't ask Orton to do a whole lot." He threw for 300 yards. That's three games for Cassel.

Another odd comment from Mellinger. We haven't had that many passing yards all season unless I am missing something.

Brock
12-18-2011, 07:06 PM
For some reason people think resigning Orton is a done deal.

Well, if he wants to be a starter, this is probably the place.

chiefzilla1501
12-18-2011, 07:06 PM
Thanks.

With this; "They ran a lot of screens, almost exclusively short passes, mostly tried to stay in good rhythm and protect the football." Mellinger makes it sound like Orton never took it deep.

FAX

Yeah, Mellinger is on crack.

A TON of playaction and he sold them all beautifully. A few passes where Orton used a pump fake to punk the hell out of a corner. A ton of passes where Orton's primary read shut down but he had the wherewithal to stand in there and find a 3rd or 4th read (which was usually wide open).

The biggest knock from today was that he wasn't always in sync with the receivers. You can tell he was throwing back shoulder but they weren't expecting it. That will come with time.

JohnnyHammersticks
12-18-2011, 07:06 PM
Orton is better than Cassel. That doesn't mean Orton is all-world, it means that Cassel is shit. He's simply better than Cassel, IMO.

This

Orton is a slightly above-average NFL QB on his best day. But after watching the steaming pile of shit in the #7 jersey and Palko for 13 weeks, it was like watching Joe Montana dissecting defenses at the height of his powers.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 07:08 PM
For some reason people think resigning Orton is a done deal.

If it means getting rid of Cassel do it. Orton wants to start somewhere, hopefully it's here if he continues to play well. We still need to draft a QB in the first round.

Urc Burry
12-18-2011, 07:09 PM
I sure hope Orton plays better in the red zone. I'm hoping that's just due to the fact that he's not on the same page yet with the receivers.

rico
12-18-2011, 07:09 PM
AHHHHHHHH!!!!!! CASSEL IS NOT A F***ING PROFESSIONAL-GRADE QUARTERBACK! IN FACT, I HATE CASSEL-LED GAMES EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS I HATED PALKO-LED GAMES!! IS THIS MELLINGER GUY PAID SOMETHING EXTRA ON THE SIDE TO MAKE CLAIMS LIKE THESE, OR WHAT?!?!?! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr_Tomahawk
12-18-2011, 07:10 PM
If it means getting rid of Cassel do it. Orton wants to start somewhere, hopefully it's here if he continues to play well. We still need to draft a QB in the first round.

Cut Cassel.

Sign Orton.

Draft Tannehill if he is their when we pick.

Develop Tannehill/Stanzi behind Orton.

FringeNC
12-18-2011, 07:10 PM
Orton averaged 9.6 YPA.

Cassel has ONE GAME in the last three years better than that and he only threw it 18 times.

Yeah. YPA is the most important statistics associated with QB performance and why Senseless is crazy in suggesting Orton's performance was nothing special vs. a typical Cassel performance.

stonedstooge
12-18-2011, 07:10 PM
Orton could have put up 28 points easily today and he didn't. Funny its the same problem he's been known for. Another 2 games will speak a lot about him

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 07:11 PM
AHHHHHHHH!!!!!! CASSEL IS NOT A F***ING PROFESSIONAL-GRADE QUARTERBACK! IN FACT, I HATE CASSEL-LED GAMES EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS I HATED PALKO-LED GAMES!! IS THIS MELLINGER GUY PAID SOMETHING EXTRA ON THE SIDE TO MAKE CLAIMS LIKE THESE, OR WHAT?!?!?! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Got some of that sweet comet crack too

rico
12-18-2011, 07:11 PM
I sure hope Orton plays better in the red zone. I'm hoping that's just due to the fact that he's not on the same page yet with the receivers.

Hasn't that always been one of Orton's struggles? I feel as if I have heard and/or witnessed this from him before.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 07:12 PM
Orton could have put up 28 points easily today and he didn't. Funny its the same problem he's been known for. Another 2 games will speak a lot about him

Today had a lot to do with play-calling, IMO. It sucked inside the 20.

Count Zarth
12-18-2011, 07:12 PM
Orton also had a TD pass dropped (we settled for 3), and on another possession we couldn't punch it in. That's 11 points we left on the field, or 7.

rico
12-18-2011, 07:13 PM
Got some of that sweet comet crack too

Yeah, this Mellinger documented anal seepage makes me want to smoke some of that sweet comet crack.

Coogs
12-18-2011, 07:14 PM
I sure hope Orton plays better in the red zone. I'm hoping that's just due to the fact that he's not on the same page yet with the receivers.

Keeping Thomas Jones on the bench on 1st down from the 3 or 4 would help the red zone performance quite a bit.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 07:15 PM
Keeping Thomas Jones on the bench on 1st down from the 3 or 4 would help the red zone performance quite a bit.

We got some big ass WRs. Use them.

milkman
12-18-2011, 07:15 PM
The amazing thing is that Orton, with limited time to practice with these guys, hit these guys on intermediate routes in stride, and on a deep ball to well covered Baldwin threw a perfectly placed ball that should have been caught.

That play was one of only two passes today that were dropped by the Chiefs receivers.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 07:15 PM
If you missed seeing the game, you missed some textbook playaction by Orton. He was fooling the announcers.
yep ... what's sad is that half the time our QB's don't even bother with a fake.

when's the last time you saw a screen actually work for us like they did against Green bay? How about the last time you saw a wr for us get as open as Pope did twice today?

rockymtnchief
12-18-2011, 07:16 PM
This

Orton is a slightly above-average NFL QB on his best day. But after watching the steaming pile of shit in the #7 jersey and Palko for 13 weeks, it was like watching Joe Montana dissecting defenses at the height of his powers.

My analogy as told to a good friend today: After eating shit sandwiches for 13 weeks, eating a BLT today is pretty delicious.

Brianfo
12-18-2011, 07:17 PM
Yeah, Mellinger is on crack.

A TON of playaction and he sold them all beautifully. A few passes where Orton used a pump fake to punk the hell out of a corner. A ton of passes where Orton's primary read shut down but he had the wherewithal to stand in there and find a 3rd or 4th read (which was usually wide open).

The biggest knock from today was that he wasn't always in sync with the receivers. You can tell he was throwing back shoulder but they weren't expecting it. That will come with time.

Don't laugh, but that is Aaron Rodgers esque.

Freekofnature
12-18-2011, 07:19 PM
Coming from a Denver fan who's seen all of orton's game in Denver... this game painted Orton on his good side for the most part.

With him at center, he can rack up some yardages, but he always sucked in red zone situations.

And he will crumble like a stack of cards under high pressure situations.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 07:22 PM
Keeping Thomas Jones on the bench on 1st down from the 3 or 4 would help the red zone performance quite a bit.
Did you actually watch the game today?

T Jones 15 car,48 yrds, 3.2 avg

If it weren't for the stupid power formations we stupidly went to every time we got inside the 10, the running stats would of been better. Jones was productive.

DBOSHO
12-18-2011, 07:23 PM
I remember a deep ball to someone on the sidelines where Orton punked the SHIT out of woodson with a pump fake. It was legendary.

notorious
12-18-2011, 07:24 PM
Would there be anything wrong with drafting a QB and have him sit behind Orton?

Urc Burry
12-18-2011, 07:24 PM
I knew from the beginning of that 4th and inches it would get stuffed. I thought a QB sneak would of got it

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 07:25 PM
Did you actually watch the game today?

T Jones 15 car,48 yrds, 3.2 avg

If it weren't for the stupid power formations we stupidly went to every time we got inside the 10, the running stats would of been better. Jones was productive.

What? Did you read that?

Deberg_1990
12-18-2011, 07:25 PM
Did you actually watch the game today?

T Jones 15 car,48 yrds, 3.2 avg

If it weren't for the stupid power formations we stupidly went to every time we got inside the 10, the running stats would of been better. Jones was productive.

He was ok today...I don't like him in short yardage situations though. We used MClain alot more today. We should have used Him around the goaline more than we did.

crossbow
12-18-2011, 07:25 PM
We got some big ass WRs. Use them.

I am liking this idea.

notorious
12-18-2011, 07:25 PM
Coming from a Denver fan who's seen all of orton's game in Denver... this game painted Orton on his good side for the most part.

With him at center, he can rack up some yardages, but he always sucked in red zone situations.

And he will crumble like a stack of cards under high pressure situations.

Yep, he is what he is.


He is better than the piles of shit that we have ran out for the last 5 years. One thing is for certain: Orton isn't the guy long-term.

Coogs
12-18-2011, 07:27 PM
Did you actually watch the game today?

T Jones 15 car,48 yrds, 3.2 avg

If it weren't for the stupid power formations we stupidly went to every time we got inside the 10, the running stats would of been better. Jones was productive.

Yes I watched. Every play. Jones had a decent day. Just not inside the 5.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 07:27 PM
He was ok today...I don't like him in short yardage situations though. We used MClain alot more today. We should have used Him around the goaline more han we did.

agreed ... I think Battle should be getting 90% of the carries.


today was first time i've seen anything at all from McClain.


love the fact that DMC had a reduced role

Munson
12-18-2011, 07:27 PM
Would there be anything wrong with drafting a QB and have him sit behind Orton?

Nothing wrong with that....unless you are Scott Pioli.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 07:28 PM
I am liking this idea.

Baldwin, Bowe...use them. You'd think that would be an OC's dream having two big guys like that in the red zone.

Deberg_1990
12-18-2011, 07:29 PM
Would there be anything wrong with drafting a QB and have him sit behind Orton?

Nope. Not at all. That would be ideal in fact. Dump Cassel, sign Orton and draft a QB, but we might draft too low now for a top guy. Look, If the Chiefs truly want a top 1st round QB, they can make it happen anytime. They just have to be willing to give up something and trade up. They never are willing to do that.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 07:29 PM
Yes I watched. Every play. Jones had a decent day. Just not inside the 5.
no runners had a decent day inside the 5 because the Chiefs told the Packers what they were going to run by the formation they were in.

cost us points

Brianfo
12-18-2011, 07:30 PM
Would there be anything wrong with drafting a QB and have him sit behind Orton?

No. That would be perfect. Only thing wrong is if Cassel is still on the team.

Mr_Tomahawk
12-18-2011, 07:30 PM
Would there be anything wrong with drafting a QB and have him sit behind Orton?

I would love to cut Cassel.

Sign Orton.

Draft Tannehill in the 1st if we are going to be drafting mid-rnd.

Allow Tannehill/Stanzi develop behind Orton.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2011, 07:30 PM
did Bowe and Baldwin get into trouble?

Copper and Breaston in the starting lineup

Coogs
12-18-2011, 07:31 PM
no runners had a decent day inside the 5 because the Chiefs told the Packers what they were going to run by the formation they were in.

cost us points

Not argueing with you. I just would not use Jones in those situations.

Bwana
12-18-2011, 07:31 PM
Essentially Cassel my ass. I haven't seen a Chiefs QB walk up to the line, point out defensive holes, read through his progression and find the open man the way Orton did today in years.

You nailed it!

Mr_Tomahawk
12-18-2011, 07:32 PM
did Bowe and Baldwin get into trouble?

Copper and Breaston in the starting lineup

Bowe missed or was late to a meeting/practice because of a family situation...they said he didn't follow "standard protocol"

WhiteWhale
12-18-2011, 07:32 PM
did Bowe and Baldwin get into trouble?

Copper and Breaston in the starting lineup

Bowe was in trouble.

I think Breaston is just a starter.

doomy3
12-18-2011, 07:33 PM
did Bowe and Baldwin get into trouble?

Copper and Breaston in the starting lineup

Yeah, Bowe apparently didn't follow some rules about family emergency days or something like that. Not sure about Breaston.

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 07:33 PM
did Bowe and Baldwin get into trouble?

Copper and Breaston in the starting lineup

According to the conspiracy theorist Haley's guys got benched.

Blows that theory to hell.

Okie_Apparition
12-18-2011, 07:33 PM
I'm thinking Battle was injured there for awhile
it seems like he came out of an earlier game early

Urc Burry
12-18-2011, 07:33 PM
did Bowe and Baldwin get into trouble?

Copper and Breaston in the starting lineup

Copper started in place of Bowe because Bowe didn't follow protocol or something on a family illness. And I think Breaston has started over Baldwin so far

Deberg_1990
12-18-2011, 07:34 PM
did Bowe and Baldwin get into trouble?

Copper and Breaston in the starting lineup

Yea, Havnt heard much about that because Orton played well and we won. If those hadn't of happened it would be a bigger story.

crossbow
12-18-2011, 07:36 PM
Baldwin, Bowe...use them. You'd think that would be an OC's dream having two big guys like that in the red zone.

Yeah, its like having tightends with wideout speed that can jump. And Baldwin has vice grips for hand strength. You would need the jaws of life to pry a ball from that dude.

Bwana
12-18-2011, 07:36 PM
My analogy as told to a good friend today: After eating shit sandwiches for 13 weeks, eating a BLT today is pretty delicious.

Money

boogblaster
12-18-2011, 07:39 PM
if casshole starts next year ill personnaly drive to kc and shot the bastard ......

teedubya
12-18-2011, 07:42 PM
The best part of this Mellinger article was the Hosmer tweet. :-)

Mr_Tomahawk
12-18-2011, 07:45 PM
if casshole starts next year ill personnaly drive to kc and shot the bastard ......

please

alanm
12-18-2011, 07:49 PM
Don't commit to Orton too quickly ... let him play and see what happens. We threw out a big contract to Cassel quickly and it's biting us in the butt. If Orton continues to improve then keep him around for awhile. I still want to continue to look for an elite QB.What every one seems to forget is that Orton is free to walk after the season is over and I expect him to do so. And Crennel is a good DC but in no way do I want him as the HC of the Chiefs. I trust that Pioli doesn't make a knee jerk decision and waits to see who's available once the season is over.

KCChiefsFan88
12-18-2011, 07:52 PM
What every one seems to forget is that Orton is free to walk after the season is over and I expect him to do so. And Crennel is a good DC but in no way do I want him as the HC of the Chiefs. I trust that Pioli doesn't make a knee jerk decision and waits to see who's available once the season is over.

Agreed.

There are countless examples of interim coaches coming in and having a great one game effect.

Bill Stewart in West Virginia comes to mind. He was the interim coach after Rich Rod left for Michigan and he led West Virginia to a big win over Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl.

West Virginia over-reacted to one win, gave him the permanent HC job and regretted it 3 years later.

Brock
12-18-2011, 07:56 PM
What every one seems to forget is that Orton is free to walk after the season is over and I expect him to do so.

And go where?

KCChiefsFan88
12-18-2011, 07:57 PM
And go where?

Uh, to a place where he is guaranteed a starting job?

Guru
12-18-2011, 07:59 PM
What every one seems to forget is that Orton is free to walk after the season is over and I expect him to do so. And Crennel is a good DC but in no way do I want him as the HC of the Chiefs. I trust that Pioli doesn't make a knee jerk decision and waits to see who's available once the season is over.

Hell, he would be an idiot to walk away from the receivers we have here. He has to be looking at them and thinking about how gaudy his stats could potentially be.

Brock
12-18-2011, 08:00 PM
Uh, to a place where he is guaranteed a starting job?

Yeah, where's that? Where is he going to have a better chance at being a starter than he has right here?

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 08:01 PM
Yeah, where's that? Where is he going to have a better chance at being a starter than he has right here?

Exactly, great point. Where else is he gonna go?

KCChiefsFan88
12-18-2011, 08:04 PM
Yeah, where's that? Where is he going to have a better chance at being a starter than he has right here?

Washington? Miami? Those two teams Orton would immediately be the starting QB.

If Cassel returns next season in KC, it is far from a given that he'll be the starting QB.

Mr_Tomahawk
12-18-2011, 08:06 PM
If Cassel returns next season in KC, it is far from a given that he'll be the starting QB.

Source?

Brock
12-18-2011, 08:09 PM
Washington? Miami? Those two teams Orton would immediately be the starting QB.

If Cassel returns next season in KC, it is far from a given that he'll be the starting QB.

Two teams that amazingly let him slip through waivers to the Chiefs. Yeah, sure.

If Cassel returns to KC, he'll compete for the job if Orton is here, and he'll lose.

Guru
12-18-2011, 08:09 PM
Washington? Miami? Those two teams Orton would immediately be the starting QB.

If Cassel returns next season in KC, it is far from a given that he'll be the starting QB.
Yet Miami didn't claim him on waivers

alanm
12-18-2011, 08:11 PM
Yeah, where's that? Where is he going to have a better chance at being a starter than he has right here?Let's see..Miami, Buffalo, Seattle, Arizona, Cleveland, Minnesota, Washington, to name a few.

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 08:14 PM
Let's see..Miami, Buffalo, Seattle, Arizona, Cleveland, Minnesota, Washington, to name a few.

Buffalo just gave $ to Fitzgerald, Arizona trade for Kolb and paid him, Minny drafted a QB in the 1st round.

That blows half your options.

alanm
12-18-2011, 08:15 PM
Two teams that amazingly let him slip through waivers to the Chiefs. Yeah, sure.

If Cassel returns to KC, he'll compete for the job if Orton is here, and he'll lose. Your also talking about teams passing on a business decision of picking up a couple of million for him for a few games. Where as they could wait to make a offer for him once the season is over.

alanm
12-18-2011, 08:20 PM
Buffalo just gave $ to Fitzgerald, Arizona trade for Kolb and paid him, Minny drafted a QB in the 1st round.

That blows half your options. Ponder was rushed and needs more time. Kolb as far as I'm concerned is a media creation who hasn't done jack when he was in Philly. You're probably right about Fitzgerald though so Buffalo is out.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2011, 08:22 PM
Orton provides spark: What a way for Kyle Orton to make his starting debut for the Chiefs. He was 23-of-31 for 299 yards passing. It was a highlight of a difficult year for the former Denver starter. If Orton finishes strong in the next two games, Kansas City could potentially consider signing him and replacing Matt Cassel.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest

milkman
12-18-2011, 08:24 PM
Ponder was rushed and needs more time. Kolb as far as I'm concerned is a media creation who hasn't done jack when he was in Philly. You're probably right about Fitzgerald though so Buffalo is out.

Ponder was probably rushed, but you don't put toothpaste back in the tube, as they say.

And regardless of how Kolb came to be in Arizona, they made a substantial financial investment, which means they will give that some time to work, and in the meantime, they have Skelton to back him up, and he has played some good football over the last month or so.

Brock
12-18-2011, 08:31 PM
Let's see..Miami, Buffalo, Seattle, Arizona, Cleveland, Minnesota, Washington, to name a few.

LMAO Yeah, sure. Buffalo just gave a mega contract to Fitzpatrick, Minnesota just drafted a first round QB, Arizona just traded for Kolb, and not one of the teams you mention is a better situation for Orton than KC is.

notorious
12-18-2011, 08:33 PM
How anyone still entertains the thought that Cassel might start makes me sad.

Brock
12-18-2011, 08:33 PM
I can see it now "yeah, KC has Charles, Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, etc., but I'd rather go try to throw the ball to whoever Minnesota or Washington has".

Dumb.

JohnnyHammersticks
12-18-2011, 08:33 PM
Would there be anything wrong with drafting a QB and have him sit behind Orton?

It's not the "Chief Way".

notorious
12-18-2011, 08:35 PM
It's not the "Chief Way".

True.


The "Chief Way" has never worked. Time to re-write the rules.

JohnnyHammersticks
12-18-2011, 08:38 PM
How anyone still entertains the thought that Cassel might start makes me sad.

What makes me sadder is that only one person has to entertain that thought to virtually guarantee that it will happen, and that's the coconut-headed fraud with the initials Scott Pioli.

notorious
12-18-2011, 08:39 PM
What makes me sadder is that only one person has to entertain that thought to virtually guarantee that it will happen, and that's the coconut-headed fraud with the initials Scott Pioli.

Are you a mult, or should I nominate you into the nOOb of the year contest?

splatbass
12-18-2011, 08:41 PM
Uh, to a place where he is guaranteed a starting job?

Where would that be?

alanm
12-18-2011, 08:41 PM
I can see it now "yeah, KC has Charles, Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, etc., but I'd rather go try to throw the ball to whoever Minnesota or Washington has".

Dumb.Not saying it's going to happen. But how are you going to feel if Orton comes out and says "Hey thanks for the 2.3 million Kansas City. See ya in the funny papers."

Orton is going to go FA. Kansas City will probably have to throw a bid out there along with a few other teams.

Brock
12-18-2011, 08:43 PM
Where would that be?

Oh, haven't you heard? There's like 8 teams where he's guaranteed the starting job! Even though some of them just drafted or traded for a QB. LMAO

Brock
12-18-2011, 08:45 PM
Not saying it's going to happen. But how are you going to feel if Orton comes out and says "Hey thanks for the 2.3 million Kansas City. See ya in the funny papers."

Orton is going to go FA. Kansas City will probably have to throw a bid out there along with a few other teams.

There is not a single team that's a better place for him to play than here. If he leaves, he leaves, but to act like it's not pretty likely that he'd just stay here if KC wants him is pretty stupid. He's already developing a pretty good chemistry with these receivers, as you saw today.

splatbass
12-18-2011, 08:46 PM
Oh, haven't you heard? There's like 8 teams where he's guaranteed the starting job! Even though some of them just drafted or traded for a QB. LMAO

:D

I may be a homer, but trying to look at it objectively I can't see a better place for Orton. We have good receivers, hopefully will have a good running back and tight end back, and no competition at QB. Plus he would have a chance to beat Denver twice a year. Seems perfect for him.

JohnnyHammersticks
12-18-2011, 08:48 PM
Are you a mult, or should I nominate you into the nOOb of the year contest?

Thanks, I think? What's a mult?

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 08:49 PM
There is not a single team that's a better place for him to play than here. If he leaves, he leaves, but to act like it's not pretty likely that he'd just stay here if KC wants him is pretty stupid. He's already developing a pretty good chemistry with these receivers, as you saw today.

Honestly KC is a great choice for any QB looking for a team.

Assume JC is healthy next year with our WR etc....it's a potential explosive offense.

Mr_Tomahawk
12-18-2011, 08:52 PM
Let's see..Miami, Buffalo, Seattle, Arizona, Cleveland, Minnesota, Washington, to name a few.

Are you kidding me?!?!/11/1/@?

Matt Cassel would love any of those places!

Chiefshrink
12-18-2011, 08:53 PM
I didn't see the game, but based on reading the play-by-play on NFL.com, it looked like some of those passes were deep. No?

FAX

He has a gun and can throw the deep ball which Baldwin dropped today that was placed perfectly:deevee:

bricks
12-18-2011, 08:56 PM
Honestly KC is a great choice for any QB looking for a team.

Assume JC is healthy next year with our WR etc....it's a potential explosive offense.

Explosive? no.

I would lean more towards decent.

alanm
12-18-2011, 08:58 PM
:D

I may be a homer, but trying to look at it objectively I can't see a better place for Orton. We have good receivers, hopefully will have a good running back and tight end back, and no competition at QB. Plus he would have a chance to beat Denver twice a year. Seems perfect for him.You realize I'm playing devils advocate here. Yes KC seems like a logical choice but I'm sure he's going to wait until after the season to see what his options are. As always the money will talk loudest.

Brock
12-18-2011, 08:59 PM
Explosive? no.

I would lean more towards decent.

Assuming Charles is healthy, KC's offense would be decent? yeah, ok.

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 08:59 PM
Explosive? no.

I would lean more towards decent.

JC, Moeaki, Baldwin, Breaston and Bowe with a good Qb not explosive?

What is?

Brock
12-18-2011, 09:02 PM
You realize I'm playing devils advocate here. Yes KC seems like a logical choice but I'm sure he's going to wait until after the season to see what his options are. As always the money will talk loudest.

If you really wanted to play devil's advocate, you could just say Orton is really only an above average QB to begin with, and I'd agree with you.

Chiefshrink
12-18-2011, 09:02 PM
Orton provides spark: What a way for Kyle Orton to make his starting debut for the Chiefs. He was 23-of-31 for 299 yards passing. It was a highlight of a difficult year for the former Denver starter. If Orton finishes strong in the next two games, Kansas City could potentially consider signing him and replacing Matt Cassel.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest

And what a motivator for Kyle to go back into to Denver, to give all the Denver Tebow fans the "quiet bird" by winning. And after today's loss in Denver the Denver sports media guys will now play the "it was just a matter of time" card because they have been more frustrated than Elway as to how Tebow has been pulling this off.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit to know that Elway and the local sports media are silently hoping for a Tebow meltdown for the rest of the season so it will relieve Elway of how to handle the QB position from here on out. Because still Elway hasn't really come out and pledged his full support in Tebow being the QBOTF.

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 09:05 PM
It wouldn't surprise me a bit to know that Elway and the local sports media are silently hoping for a Tebow meltdown for the rest of the season so it will relieve Elway of how to handle the QB position from here on out. Because still Elway hasn't really come out and pledged his full support in Tebow being the QBOTF.

They better hope so. I want Tebow in Denver for at least another year.

Chiefshrink
12-18-2011, 09:05 PM
JC, Moeaki, Baldwin, Breaston and Bowe with a good Qb not explosive?

What is?

You give Orton a healthy Chiefs team 'this year' with Crennel leading the way we win the AFC West by a minimum of 3 games;)

aturnis
12-18-2011, 09:05 PM
Redzone efficiency would have been helped if we would have tried using out WR's size as an advantage. We didn't. A real head scratcher if you ask me.

Chiefshrink
12-18-2011, 09:08 PM
They better hope so. I want Tebow in Denver for at least another year.


:thumb:

Bowser
12-18-2011, 09:08 PM
"Orton, it certainly appears, is essentially Matt Cassel. His strengths — despite some much talked about struggles this year with Denver — are protecting the football and letting playmakers around him do the heavy lifting."

Yeah, except for that he doesn't shit himself at the first hint of pressure, and can go through the progressions on the pass plays. Oh, and throw it reasonably well deep. Other than that, they're fucking identical.

Chiefshrink
12-18-2011, 09:10 PM
Redzone efficiency would have been helped if we would have tried using out WR's size as an advantage. We didn't. A real head scratcher if you ask me.

Yes that was confusing to me as well because Orton does throw a nice fade to the corner and with Baldwin and Bowe head and shoulders above the small GB 2ndary you would think it would have been successful.

bricks
12-18-2011, 09:11 PM
JC, Moeaki, Baldwin, Breaston and Bowe with a good Qb not explosive?

What is?

Lets not get too carried away here, I know they won today and all, but Kyle Orton is what he is, a competent average quarterback. Unless, they get a really good quarterback, then, yeah, I think it would be fair to say that the Chiefs offense has the potential to be explosive. Thats why I disagree with your statement because average quarterback play will simply prevent them from being explosive.

Don't get me wrong, love the weapons in Charles, Bowe, Moeaki, Breaston. But if you don't have the QB, how can your offense be explosive? Its only common sense bro. I think the weapons would be sufficient enough to make them decent but not explosive.

I know Kyle Orton played well today, and did not win the game for them, nor lose the game for them either. But Im not gonna get too excited unless they bring in a really good quarterback. I accept him for what he is.

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 09:12 PM
Yes that was confusing to me as well because Orton does throw a nice fade to the corner and with Baldwin and Bowe head and shoulders above the small GB 2ndary you would think it would have been successful.

Yet I read here today over and over that the play calling was so much better today.

Marcellus
12-18-2011, 09:14 PM
Lets not get too carried away here, I know they won today and all, but Kyle Orton is what he is, a competent average quarterback. Unless, they get a really good quarterback, then, yeah, I think it would be fair to say that the Chiefs offense has the potential to be explosive. Thats why I disagree with your statement because average quarterback play will simply prevent them from being explosive.

Don't get me wrong, love the weapons in Charles, Bowe, Moeaki, Breaston. But if you don't have the QB, how can your offense be explosive? Its only common sense bro. I think the weapons would be sufficient enough to make them decent but not explosive.

I know Kyle Orton played well today, and did not win the game for them, nor lose the game for them either. But Im not gonna get too excited unless they bring in a really good quarterback. I accept him for what he is.

I never ever said Orton was the QB to make the offense explosive. I said KC would be an attraction to any QB because with a GOOD QB the offense would be explosive.

bricks
12-18-2011, 09:18 PM
I never ever said Orton was the QB to make the offense explosive. I said KC would be an attraction to any QB because with a GOOD QB the offense would be explosive.

what if that any QB is Orton?

:eek:

O.city
12-18-2011, 09:21 PM
I know they have gotten alot of shit for it, but I like bringing Stanzi along so slow. If Orton doesn't come back, I'm not sure Stanzi couldn't out duel Cassel in a training camp battle.

suzzer99
12-18-2011, 09:28 PM
Orton is essentially Cassel except for being able to make more than 2 reads, hit receivers in stride, execute a screen pass w/o making the receiver lurch backward for the ball, not hold the ball a half a second too long, look more than 20 yards down the field more than once per half, and feel pressure.

So yeah, essentially Cassel. :/