PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Manning or Orton?


Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 03:34 AM
Let's assume the Chiefs win another game or 2 putting them further back in the draft order. We know it's unlikely they will trade up to draft a QB as their past is well documented on here. Say you're the GM would you A. Re-sign Orton or B. Enter the Peyton Manning sweepstakes (guessing Manning will most likely be released and become a free agent).

Phobia
12-19-2011, 03:39 AM
The only way I'm interested in Manning is if he's coming here to mentor our 1st round QB for 2 years and is given a clean bill of health.

BigMeatballDave
12-19-2011, 03:40 AM
I'd keep Orton.

I really have zero interest in playing a 36 yr old QB with a neck issue. Even if it is one of the best QBs ever.

Fritz88
12-19-2011, 03:44 AM
Ill take Manning in a heart beat.

From what we saw yesterday, this team really only needs a legit QB and it can hang with pretty much any team in the league.

Win now mentality works here.
Posted via Mobile Device

Jive Ass
12-19-2011, 03:46 AM
Yeah, I'm not too into Manning. With a neck injury, something that could happen again in an instant once it's occurred once, I don't put too much stock into that kind of arrangement. I think Orton is competent enough to get us through another season or two while a rookie trains underneath him - Stanzi or otherwise. He's a good QB, that much is clear. Why waste the capital on an older guy with neck problems? Even today it was reported that there is no chance of seeing much of him the rest of this season. That doesn't speak well of the expectations for Manning's future.

johnny961
12-19-2011, 04:24 AM
I'd keep Orton.

I really have zero interest in playing a 36 yr old QB with a neck issue. Even if it is one of the best QBs ever.

This. No sense paying stupid money for damaged goods that may not pan out if the neck injury impairs his ability to play.

Dexter Manley
12-19-2011, 04:36 AM
Peyton Manning will never ever come to KC to play football.

Period.

Those who think there is a chance he would are absolutely clueless...

Phobia
12-19-2011, 04:41 AM
Peyton Manning will never ever come to KC to play football.

Period.

Those who think there is a chance he would are absolutely clueless...
I don't think he would either but you can't just say people are "absolutely clueless" without some basis for your claim.

Dexter Manley
12-19-2011, 04:58 AM
I don't think he would either but you can't just say people are "absolutely clueless" without some basis for your claim.

The guy will either be the Colt QB or he will retire, period.

Too much money in the bank already. Too little risk/reward putting the neck on the line somewhere else...

beach tribe
12-19-2011, 05:01 AM
Peyton Manning will never ever come to KC to play football.

Period.

Those who think there is a chance he would are absolutely clueless...

I don't understand people who say this. Indy is just as small a market, and this team has a shit ton more talent than the Colts squad he would be going back to.

beach tribe
12-19-2011, 05:03 AM
And I will be willing to bet that if the Colts choose Luck over Manning, 5 head will be looking at he Colts schedule, who's on it, and who their QB is.

King_Chief_Fan
12-19-2011, 07:25 AM
entering the Manning sweepstakes really sets the team back....draft choices and salary

Not interested

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 07:26 AM
entering the Manning sweepstakes really sets the team back....draft choices and salary

Not interested

Nobody is going to trade for Manning.

eazyb81
12-19-2011, 07:28 AM
The guy will either be the Colt QB or he will retire, period.

Too much money in the bank already. Too little risk/reward putting the neck on the line somewhere else...

Bullshit.

The guy is a competitor and will want to prove Indy wrong. He's not doing this intensive rehab to just retire.

If his health allows, he will play in 2012 guaranteed.

Bane
12-19-2011, 07:29 AM
Manning come to KC...HAHAHAHAHAHAHa!!!!!!

Deberg_1990
12-19-2011, 07:32 AM
Come on now.....If Manning is given a clean bill of health, then this shouldnt even be an argument. I view both Manning and Orton as a bridge to a young QB in a year or two.

BTW, all the talk of losing for draft position is BS. The Chiefs could have and can move up in the draft anytime they want. They just never choose to do so. Anything is possible if you are willing to give up something for it.

KC_Lee
12-19-2011, 07:34 AM
If your Manning would you even contemplate comming to KC? The O-Line is in desperate need of rebuilding.

Yes there are some parts of the team (players comming back from IR next year, good defense, etc) that are in place but with our line Manning would be in a wheelchair by week #4.

Deberg_1990
12-19-2011, 07:39 AM
The O-Line is in desperate need of rebuilding.



:facepalm:

Did you watch any of the game yeterday???

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 07:44 AM
If your Manning would you even contemplate comming to KC? The O-Line is in desperate need of rebuilding.

Yes there are some parts of the team (players comming back from IR next year, good defense, etc) that are in place but with our line Manning would be in a wheelchair by week #4.

Manning would want to come here 1. Because the Chiefs could afford to pay him a big contract. 2. This team is ready to compete.

KC_Lee
12-19-2011, 07:51 AM
:facepalm:

Did you watch any of the game yeterday???

Yeah, it's one game. We've seen the Chiefs do this in the past.

Dexter Manley
12-19-2011, 07:56 AM
Manning would want to come here 1. Because the Chiefs could afford to pay him a big contract. 2. This team is ready to compete.


3. the N on the Nebraska helmet stands for...

loochy
12-19-2011, 07:58 AM
Manning or Orton....how about Morton?

http://www.tvacres.com/images/morton4_1951.jpg

KC Tattoo
12-19-2011, 07:59 AM
FUCKING DUMB. Play a draft pick prospect.

ROYC75
12-19-2011, 08:08 AM
3. the N on the Nebraska helmet stands for...

Numbnuts ?

bricks
12-19-2011, 08:14 AM
If your Manning would you even contemplate comming to KC? The O-Line is in desperate need of rebuilding.

Yes there are some parts of the team (players comming back from IR next year, good defense, etc) that are in place but with our line Manning would be in a wheelchair by week #4.

I would if I were him.

If KC makes the playoffs, it makes them an attractive destination. They'd get more noticed.

Most playoff teams have good quarterbacks anyway. 49ers are an exception. And Seattle. But I don't think he would want to play there. Those teams don't have the weapons like KC does.

He is going to want to go to a team that is well built and is only in need of a quarterback to satisfy their missing piece. He's 36 year old and I'm sure he wants to win one again before he hangs them up.

*I don't think the Oline is that bad bro. Draft a tackle, and they'll be fine.

durtyrute
12-19-2011, 08:19 AM
Why in the motherfuck are we even talking about Manning? Get you head out of your asses, he is not coming here.

bricks
12-19-2011, 08:26 AM
Why in the mother**** are we even talking about Manning?Get you head out of your asses, he is not coming here.

I like to dream

KC_Lee
12-19-2011, 08:27 AM
*I don't think the Oline is that bad bro. Draft a tackle, and they'll be fine.


Now let's look at this.

Wiegmann needs to be gone, retire or cut him.
Richardson needs to be gone, cut him.
Lilja needs to be gone, cut him.

So that's 3 pieces out of 5 that need to be replaced / upgraded next year. If you are Manning do you come into a situation that is this unstable?

Amnorix
12-19-2011, 08:42 AM
Assuming that he's a free agent and it's "just money", then why the hell not? You have a fantasic RB coming back next year and a defense that is very solid. You're in the god-awful AFC West, so with Manning you have a VERY high probability of winning the division and going into the playoffs with Manning, Charles and a good or very good defense with guys like Hali and Berry.

Or you could spend a few years dicking around on Plan B. Why Plan B isn't EXACTLY THE SAME as Plan A except for having Manning, I have no idea.

You want to spend a high pick on a QB? Do it. He can learn by watching one of the greatest that ever played.

Amnorix
12-19-2011, 08:44 AM
Why in the motherfuck are we even talking about Manning? Get you head out of your asses, he is not coming here.


I think (obviously) that Manning is one of the greatest QBs ever. He is also, however, pretty obviously keen to make a buck. I think if you're the top bidder in FA, he looks at Charles and that defense and the fact that KC is obviously NOT a worse market (in terms of size) than Indianapolis and says "why not?"

Unless your OLine is a complete shambles, as others have mentioned. I have no insight on that.

Amnorix
12-19-2011, 08:46 AM
Manning come to KC...HAHAHAHAHAHAHa!!!!!!


Why not? Seriously. This isn't the NBA. It's not Lakers or bust. Or Miami or bust.

I'm sure he'd prefer a dome or good weather stadium, but his entire career was in freaking Indianapolis. He wants to WIN, and he wants to be PAID. If he thinks he can do the former and will get the latter, I think he'll go anywhere.

Hell, he can even say "I'm just following in the footsteps of Joe Montana..." :D

bricks
12-19-2011, 08:54 AM
Now let's look at this.

Wiegmann needs to be gone, retire or cut him.
Richardson needs to be gone, cut him.
Lilja needs to be gone, cut him.

So that's 3 pieces out of 5 that need to be replaced / upgraded next year. If you are Manning do you come into a situation that is this unstable?

Chiefs have 3 good young offensive lineman right now in Albert, Hudson and Asamoah.

I agree Richardson needs to go. He is the reason why the Chiefs should draft an offensive tackle.

I could live with Lilja since he has experience playing behind Manning.

An Oline of:

LT Albert
LG Lilja
C Hudson
RG Asamoah
RT draft pick?

Would be sufficient for Manning. Plus he is the type of quarterback that would make his offensive line better. He's the best in the game at making quick snaps /reads and delivers a nice quick release better than anybody. The Olines job would be a heck of a lot easier. Aside from right tackle, I wouldn't worry too much about the offensive line.

If I'm Peyton, I have confidence in knowing what I'm capable of doing. I have confidence that I can make the players around me better and yes I feel that this line is stable enough for me.

trndobrd
12-19-2011, 08:56 AM
If Indy doesn't draft Luck and bring Manning back for another season to help mentor their new stud QB, their entire front office should be fired.

That said, if Manning was on the market, I would prefer to leave him alone. Too much money, to broken, and too much chance the Chiefs front office will believe he is 'The Answer' to the QB situation.

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 09:11 AM
What is this obsession with an old broken down QB? If the Colts thought Manning had another 3 really good years left, they'd pay him.

He's done. Even if he was healthy enough to play, he's a crap fit in KC.

Guru
12-19-2011, 09:17 AM
JFC would everyone get off of the Manning crap. He isn't going anywhere. He is retiring or playing out his years in Indy.

KC_Lee
12-19-2011, 09:17 AM
What is this obsession with an old broken down QB?

This is what we do. Since the Chiefs have never, in their history, drafted and developed a QB we are trained to get excited about other teams broke dick QBs.

Reerun_KC
12-19-2011, 09:22 AM
I vote Neither.

I vote 1st rd qb and Stanzi....

Frazod
12-19-2011, 09:22 AM
I don't really want him, but if the Chiefs sign Manning they instantly become the NFL's Flavor of the Week. That means it will be OUR offensive linemen who will be able to blatantly hold on every fucking play, not the other team's. They might even start throwing flags on the Hali holds, too! :eek:

Baby Lee
12-19-2011, 09:29 AM
Yeah, it's one game. We've seen the Chiefs do this in the past.

Beaten a lot of SB champs, have they?

J Diddy
12-19-2011, 09:59 AM
Let's assume the Chiefs win another game or 2 putting them further back in the draft order. We know it's unlikely they will trade up to draft a QB as their past is well documented on here. Say you're the GM would you A. Re-sign Orton or B. Enter the Peyton Manning sweepstakes (guessing Manning will most likely be released and become a free agent).

I sincerely doubt that they would just let Manning go. He still has trade value and most likely will start over their 1st round draft pick next year.

My hunch tells me he is going to be used by Indy to groom his successor.

Baby Lee
12-19-2011, 10:01 AM
I sincerely doubt that they would just let Manning go. He still has trade value and most likely will start over their 1st round draft pick next year.

My hunch tells me he is going to be used by Indy to groom his successor.

That's one expensive groomsman's gift.

J Diddy
12-19-2011, 10:12 AM
That's one expensive groomsman's gift.

True. However, and you can just call me crazy, if I had the opportunity to have a 1st round draft pick sit and learn from Peyton Manning for a year before I threw him to the wolves I would.

That and the financial impact of the high draft pick will be somewhat negated due to the rookie cap.

It's this or throw a rook to the wolves.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2011, 10:16 AM
Miami is going to get Peyton.

KILLER_CLOWN
12-19-2011, 10:16 AM
I'm sure Brady is available and represents the Patriot way.

doomy3
12-19-2011, 10:20 AM
If we were talking about who we would rather sign on the FA market, then it's Manning. But the Colts aren't going to just release Manning. He will cost at least 2 first rounders IMO. Carson Palmer just cost the Raiders a first and a second at the minimum. No way in hell that Manning doesn't bring at least that. So I would rather draft a QB and sign Orton as a stop gap.

J Diddy
12-19-2011, 10:21 AM
I'm sure Brady is available and represents the Patriot way.

Yep for a 2nd and a 5th brady can be had.

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 10:25 AM
If we were talking about who we would rather sign on the FA market, then it's Manning. But the Colts aren't going to just release Manning. He will cost at least 2 first rounders IMO. Carson Palmer just cost the Raiders a first and a second at the minimum. No way in hell that Manning doesn't bring at least that. So I would rather draft a QB and sign Orton as a stop gap.

IIRC they have to release him, or pay him 28 million.

KC_Lee
12-19-2011, 10:28 AM
Beaten a lot of SB champs, have they?

The 2000 season, KC 54, St. Louis 34.

So yeah, we've seen this before.

doomy3
12-19-2011, 10:33 AM
IIRC they have to release him, or pay him 28 million.

Well, likely what would happen is that Manning would have to restructure his deal prior to the new year. If the Colts are going to draft Luck and Manning agrees to restructure his deal, then they'll be able to trade him. Of course in this scenario, he will have a ton of leverage on where he's willing to be traded.

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 10:37 AM
Well, likely what would happen is that Manning would have to restructure his deal prior to the new year. If the Colts are going to draft Luck and Manning agrees to restructure his deal, then they'll be able to trade him. Of course in this scenario, he will have a ton of leverage on where he's willing to be traded.

The ball is in Manning's court. I believe they owe him 28 mil or so the first day of the new league year which is before the draft. If Manning doesn't budge, they'd have to release him and Manning could do his own bidding on where he wants to go. Manning isn't going to allow the Colts to decide where he goes. Plus, the only place Manning is going is to a network studio.

doomy3
12-19-2011, 10:41 AM
The ball is in Manning's court. I believe they owe him 28 mil or so the first day of the new league year which is before the draft. If Manning doesn't budge, they'd have to release him and Manning could do his own bidding on where he wants to go. Manning isn't going to allow the Colts to decide where he goes. Plus, the only place Manning is going is to a network studio.

I guess we'll see. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him restructure his deal and then call the shots on who he's traded to.

bricks
12-19-2011, 10:41 AM
The ball is in Manning's court. I believe they owe him 28 mil or so the first day of the new league year which is before the draft. If Manning doesn't budge, they'd have to release him and Manning could do his own bidding on where he wants to go. Manning isn't going to allow the Colts to decide where he goes. Plus, the only place Manning is going is to a network studio.

Eh, I don't know? You may be right, but I don't see him as the type to just hang em up. I think he is going to give it another shot.

Baby Lee
12-19-2011, 10:42 AM
The 2000 season, KC 54, St. Louis 34.

So yeah, we've seen this before.

1. You realize that's 11 years ago, right.

2. That was nothing like yesterday's game. For better or worse the 2000 Chiefs' identity was known. The question, known to all beforehand, was whether The Greatest Show on Turf could face our smashmouth defense on our turf. This year the O-line has looked like ass a great deal of the time, but we weren't sure whether it was on the O-line itself or the pocket presence and release time of the QB. Yesterday they certainly gave Orton the time to operate the way he operates.

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, but its not the dire need for complete teardown and rebuild you seem to think.

Red Brooklyn
12-19-2011, 10:54 AM
While we're all dreaming and playing the "what if?" game.... here's another completely hypothetical and silly question:

If Peyton retires, and he wants to coach immediately for some reason (I know, it's just a game, have fun and play along) would you want to see the Chiefs take him on in some capacity - QB coach or even OC?

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 11:04 AM
If Peyton retires, and he wants to coach immediately for some reason (I know, it's just a game, have fun and play along) would you want to see the Chiefs take him on in some capacity - QB coach or even OC?

Because he's done such a good job with the backups in Indy.

Frankie
12-19-2011, 12:21 PM
The only way I'm interested in Manning is if he's coming here to mentor our 1st round QB for 2 years and is given a clean bill of health.That's two.

Bump
12-19-2011, 12:27 PM
Manning on this team = insta Superbowl

Baby Lee
12-19-2011, 12:28 PM
That's two.

He's describing a path to acceptability, not a singular demand.

You can 'only be interested' premised on one, two or a bajillion preconditions.

Okie_Apparition
12-19-2011, 12:44 PM
Indy needs to rebuild & I doubt the offense under Manning is the same as they'd have for Luck
that 28+ million for Peyton's salary could buy some nice toys

Garcia Bronco
12-19-2011, 01:14 PM
I'd keep Orton.

I really have zero interest in playing a 36 yr old QB with a neck issue. Even if it is one of the best QBs ever.

He's not e of the best ever. He's barely in the conversation compared to Graham, Elway, Montana, Unitis, and Baugh. The changed the rules of the game so this guy could even compete.

Rexx
12-19-2011, 01:18 PM
Why would you take Orton over Manning? Chiefs have the cap space if they decide they want to go for Manning. He has a few years left and would have no issue with them going that route. IMO, they would be legitimate Super Bowl contenders assuming Manning is injury free.

whoman69
12-19-2011, 01:19 PM
The only way I'm interested in Manning is if he's coming here to mentor our 1st round QB for 2 years and is given a clean bill of health.

I would add a restructured contract and a reasonable amount we have to give up. If we have to give up our cap space and our future for Manning, there's no point.

Okie_Apparition
12-19-2011, 01:25 PM
Pioli knew all that mattered in the 2009 draft, was to draft an Adam Vinatieri. For when he latter picked up Brady or Manning

Ryan Succup is in da house

kaplin42
12-19-2011, 01:33 PM
Manning will not come to the Chiefs. He will stay and mentor Luck on the Colts, or retire. He has nothing to prove and has butt loads of cash. No reason to even dream of that. On top of that, stop being part of the problem by wanting over-paid end of career broken down vets to come to KC for one final payday.

I say we have Orton, draft a young QB and keep Orton as a mentor.

On the topic of Orton, while he is leaps and bounds beyond Cassel and Palko, lets know superglue his nuts to our chin just yet. He is average at best, it's just we are so starved for remotely competent QB play that he was just a joy to watch yesterday.

For trading up in the draft, now with the rookie salary cap, trades will happen again, as the financial risk of paying a top tiered rookie has been greatly reduced.

Okie_Apparition
12-19-2011, 01:38 PM
I think Peyton is a media whore that loves him some limelight. If he can, he'll play & the endorsements will follow him anywhere he goes. Even retirement

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-19-2011, 02:27 PM
adbrandtAndrew Brandt

Again, Manning cannot be traded due to timing of option. RT @haha1721 u think cowboys would go after manning? Trade romo?



adbrandtAndrew Brandt

Yes with Peyton having all the leverage. RT @DickBrianEsq can they renegotiate the option date?



No way he helps the colts out

Frankie
12-19-2011, 02:34 PM
Indy needs to rebuild & I doubt the offense under Manning is the same as they'd have for Luck
that 28+ million for Peyton's salary could buy some nice toys

Unless their GM is Scott Pioli and their owner, Clark Hunt.

Why would you take Orton over Manning? Chiefs have the cap space if they decide they want to go for Manning. He has a few years left and would have no issue with them going that route. IMO, they would be legitimate Super Bowl contenders assuming Manning is injury free.

Because I don't believe Manning's neck is as healthy or durable as the Colts want you to believe.