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Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 03:44 AM
This is dangerous. Chiefs players are lobbying openly for Crennel to get the job.

64-year old interim head coaches don't win shit in this league.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/12/18/3327636/in-big-win-chiefs-find-a-leader.html

Rookie linebacker Justin Houston grabbed an orange bucket of blue Gatorade and followed a pack of co-conspirators to drench the Chiefs’ new head coach. Romeo Crennel took it, smiled and clapped.

Running back Le’Ron McClain strutted toward Arrowhead Stadium’s west end zone, dropped his helmet around the 25-yard line, and joined five or six teammates in high-fiving and hugging delirious fans.

Crennel missed it. By this time, he was making his way off the field, wiping away tears.

The Chiefs stunned the football world by beating the previously undefeated Packers 19-14 on Sunday, the most shocking outcome in the NFL this season and in Kansas City for longer than that, one that we all might look back on in a few years as the day the franchise’s direction changed.

Three critical developments, in ascending order of importance, emerged from Sunday’s improbable upset: The Chiefs maintained a sliver of playoff hope, reminded a city that football can be fun and almost certainly found their new head coach.

“We treated this as our Super Bowl,” running back Dexter McCluster said. “This was our Super Bowl. You could feel that positive energy.”

What the Chiefs accomplished on Sunday is now the talk of the league. The Packers are still the prohibitive Super Bowl favorites, owners of the second-longest winning streak in NFL history, the model franchise for 31 others trying to build sustainable and long-term success. They’d won 19 straight and came in averaging nearly 36 points per game.

Juxtapose that with an organization in disarray. The Chiefs hadn’t scored more than 10 points since October and have lost five times by 27 points or more — one away from the most since the NFL and AFL merged in 1970.

This last week started with head coach Todd Haley being fired. Kyle Orton, cut by the Broncos a month ago, became the Chiefs’ third starting quarterback of the season. Injuries continue to expose an inexcusable lack of depth.

Nobody wondered whether the Packers would beat the Chiefs as much as they wondered just how badly the Packers would beat the Chiefs.

Then a funny, fun and completely unpredictable thing happened: The Chiefs led for all but 4 minutes, held the Packers to their fewest points and yards since last season, shut down Super Bowl MVP Aaron Rodgers and beat the defending world champions.

It can’t be as simple as Tyler Palko sitting, and the plainly capable Orton playing, can it?

Because even before this, Crennel figured to drop the “interim” from his new title as head coach after Haley’s firing.

But now, after the team’s most inspired effort of the season, the Chiefs almost surely have their man. The locker room is rooting for Crennel to get the permanent job — actually, some Chiefs players are openly lobbying for it.

“Everything was different,” McClain said of the past week. “More meeting time. More football time. Learning your opponent better, understanding your opponent. I know I watched more film this week than I watched all year. Everything was different, man. Good different.”

Especially after Haley openly admitted the Jets were better prepared than the Chiefs last weekend. What you hear from players now is both an indictment of the past and endorsement of the future with Crennel.

McCluster: “I know everybody in this locker room will fight for him.”

Receiver Terrance Copper: “He doesn’t give us a reason not to play hard for him.”

Running back Thomas Jones: “He’d be a great choice for us.”

Receiver Steve Breaston, a noted Haley supporter, even referred to Crennel’s nickname after the game on Twitter: “Yeah by the way … Rac City!!!!”

The descriptions of Crennel are a general sketch of what owner Clark Hunt and general manager Scott Pioli say they want in a head coach.

Crennel treats everyone with respect. He is obsessed with details, with fundamentals, with the kind of preparation that means the Chiefs know their opponents better than the other way around.

Crennel makes his own decisions (Orton found out he was starting Sunday’s game before Pioli did) without being insubordinate. He gives credit to his players first, his assistants second and himself never.

“I was just standing on the sideline,” he said. “That’s all I did today. They got it done.”

The parallels are too many to ignore. Crennel is consistent. He is dedicated. You will never see him take the kind of unsportsmanlike-conduct penalty that Haley drew in his last game.

Crennel went 24-40 over four seasons in Cleveland, but you know that Bill Belichick was also fired by the Browns before taking over the Patriots.

Pioli believes in guys he’s worked with, guys who’ve been in his system before. He believes that smart and motivated people get better with experience and can learn from mistakes.

In other words, Crennel fits.

The immediate impact of the Chiefs winning his first game in charge is kind of fun and mostly obvious. Green Bay’s perfect season is over. The Chiefs can still claim a mathematical shot at the playoffs.

A fan base is truly encouraged for the first time since that Monday night win over the Chargers, when the Chiefs improved to 4-3 and receiver Dwayne Bowe spray-painted his shoes and a dozen or so teammates put on “Scream” masks to celebrate on Halloween.

But it’s the other stuff that is more important, the other stuff that the players seem to know gives this a chance to be more than a temporary reprieve like their win in Chicago two weeks ago.

The feeling is entirely different this time. Some of that is Orton, who ran the offense well enough to knock off an opponent that hadn’t lost in more than a year.

The bigger part is Crennel, and a genuine vibe in the locker room that this team has found the right coach to make a still-promising future become reality.

Fritz88
12-19-2011, 03:46 AM
Stupid idiots. I am sure Haley makes everyone around him hate themselves. Yesterday, the sidelines were different. Crennel is lovable. Haley is a cunt.

But to lobby for Romeo after one win. No.
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-King-
12-19-2011, 03:49 AM
“Everything was different,” McClain said of the past week. “More meeting time. More football time. Learning your opponent better, understanding your opponent. I know I watched more film this week than I watched all year. Everything was different, man. Good different.”

Ouch. Haley can go eat a dick.
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Fritz88
12-19-2011, 03:49 AM
Ouch. Haley can go eat a dick.
Posted via Mobile Device

Fuck him.
Posted via Mobile Device

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 03:50 AM
The Chiefs once lobbied openly for Frank Gansz to be their head coach.

Worked out well.

Chiefspants
12-19-2011, 03:51 AM
I'm pretty sure that if it came down between him and Mcdaniels, many here would prefer Romeo.

Let's face it, Romeo may be the best candidate from the Pioli's available options.

Jive Ass
12-19-2011, 03:52 AM
Cool article. I'll be interested to see where the next two weeks take us. I love Crennel right now, would love to see him as HC, but he has to keep the production up.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 03:57 AM
Most of the players listed in that article won't be back next year anyway.

johnny961
12-19-2011, 04:20 AM
The Chiefs once lobbied openly for Frank Gansz to be their head coach.

Worked out well.

Yep. That was the year after John Makovic took them to their first playoff appearance in I can't remember how many years. Then was promptly fired after a first round loss and replaced by Gansz. That didn't work out so well.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 04:31 AM
The Chiefs once lobbied openly for Frank Gansz to be their head coach.

Worked out well.

They absolutely did not. Lamar Hunt met in secret with 8 players at Nick Lowery's house. Gansz was given the job just in time for the strike of 1987 and was saddled with most of Mackovic's assistants who were disloyal and downright underhanded. He also had an awful front office led by GM Jim Schaaf, a baseball man who somehow managed to work his way up through the ranks of the Chiefs organization in the 70's. Injuries, bad personnel decisions, the strike, and being thrown under the bus by a former assistant ruined Gansz's 2-year campaign as a Skipper. After a 4-win 1988, Carl Peterson sent him packing as his first power move after being handed the reins by Lamar.

Even if you construe that to be "openly lobbying", it doesn't have a single thing to do with Crennel. Gansz was an amazing coach and there really aren't many people who would say otherwise. You can't look at his W/L record under Schaaf and the many other circumstances which permeated his time in KC and say "look how that turned out" as though he were a Herm Edwards, Paul Wiggin, or Todd Haley.

Dexter Manley
12-19-2011, 04:35 AM
I'm pretty sure that if it came down between him and Mcdaniels, many here would prefer Romeo.

Let's face it, Romeo may be the best candidate from the Pioli's available options.


meaning "thou shall have worshiped Bill B like me..."

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 04:40 AM
Even if you construe that to be "openly lobbying", it doesn't have a single thing to do with Crennel.

Sure it does.

Players don't always know what's best for them.

The Chiefs loved Herm when he was here, too. Worked out well.

If we hire Crennel as HC it will be a complete waste of everyone's time.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 04:52 AM
Players don't always know what's best for them.
Agree.

The Chiefs loved Herm when he was here, too. Worked out well.
Who except the jilted fans of the Chiefs and Jets doesn't like Herm? He's a likable, charismatic guy who says things people like to hear. He's like the black Dick Vermeil.

If we hire Crennel as HC it will be a complete waste of everyone's time.
Not sure how you can say this with such certainty at this point.

You're referencing past events as though what happened then will most definitely repeat itself now even though the circumstances are completely different. You seem to dislike Crennel because he's old. Which is ridiculous because I could point out that Dick Vermeil won a SuperBowl when he was older than Romeo. But I recognize that there are really no parallels between Dick Vermeil and Romeo Crennel other than age. In short, you don't know jack but you run around here talking out your ass as if you're some kind of expert on all things Chiefs and the NFL. You're basically Mecca without the mullet.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 04:57 AM
Agree.


Who except the jilted fans of the Chiefs and Jets doesn't like Herm? He's a likable, charismatic guy who says things people like to hear. He's like the black Dick Vermeil.


Not sure how you can say this with such certainty at this point.

You're referencing past events as though what happened then will most definitely repeat itself now even though the circumstances are completely different. You seem to dislike Crennel because he's old. Which is ridiculous because I could point out that Dick Vermeil won a SuperBowl when he was older than Romeo. But I recognize that there are really no parallels between Dick Vermeil and Romeo Crennel other than age. In short, you don't know jack but you run around here talking out your ass as if you're some kind of expert on all things Chiefs and the NFL. You're basically Mecca without the mullet.

Find me a 64-year old interim head coach who went on to win a SB.

If Crennel is our HC and actually wins a SB here it will shock everyone in the NFL. It would be unprecedented.

Sorry for being concerned when 50 years of NFL history says this won't work out.

And FYI, Dick was younger than Romeo when he won it.

beach tribe
12-19-2011, 05:05 AM
Something happens in the NFL that has never happened before every season.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 05:12 AM
Something happens in the NFL that has never happened before every season.

http://www.150.si.edu/150trav/remember/r1118a.jpg

Phobia
12-19-2011, 05:17 AM
Find me a 64-year old interim head coach who went on to win a SB.

If Crennel is our HC and actually wins a SB here it will shock everyone in the NFL. It would be unprecedented.

Sorry for being concerned when 50 years of NFL history says this won't work out.

And FYI, Dick was younger than Romeo when he won it.

50 years of NFL history says that a QB won't throw a TD in 41 consecutive games either. 50 years of NFL history says that nobody will touch Tom Dempsey's 63 yard FG.
Weeb Ewbank, Tom Coughlin, and Dick Vermeil all won SuperBowls in their 60's. Dick was 63ish when he won it with the Rams.

I'm not even certain I want Crennel coaching the Chiefs in 2012 yet but your thought process is ridiculous.

Holladay
12-19-2011, 05:22 AM
Was thinking bout this today. Haley, wet behind the ears. No street cred. Saw the lil man (Pioli) during the Hunt and Poili presser (Poili looked whipped). Romeo told Poili who was gonna start at QB (no lap dog).

Romeo has been there done that, as a head coach (his record wasnt great...nor were his QB's).

The key here is that Romeo is older then the youngster (Pioli), has respect from his players (Haley didnt) and which other Head Coach prospect would you rather have (other the Fisher)?

Point is, Romeo has had a QB contriversy, has the backing of the team, Pioli will HAVE to listen to the Head Coach due to his age and experience (street cred).

Holladay
12-19-2011, 05:24 AM
It all, as we saw, comes down to Clark.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 05:25 AM
50 years of NFL history says that a QB won't throw a TD in 41 consecutive games either. 50 years of NFL history says that nobody will touch Tom Dempsey's 63 yard FG.


You're comparing apples to oranges. Individual records are bound to fall.

You can bring up other old head coaches but that's not really an argument for Romeo. All those guys were proven head coaches.

Slainte
12-19-2011, 05:33 AM
You're comparing apples to oranges.

That's what you did when you compared the current situation to what happened with Gantz and the players 25 years ago.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 07:20 AM
The defensive players openly campaigned for Gunther. We saw how that worked out.

Deberg_1990
12-19-2011, 07:36 AM
IM very weary of Romeo. I like the guy, but hes old and dude basically did nothing in Cleveland. Even Bellichek had 1 decent season with a playoff win in Cleveland. IM fearful that all this is is a Post Haley hangover bump.......

Molitoth
12-19-2011, 08:16 AM
Find me a 64-year old interim head coach who went on to win a SB.

Find me a team with a first time starting QB with the team for a month and a freshly hired interim head coach that goes on to beat the defending super bowl champs currently undefeated.

Something happens in the NFL that has never happened before every season.

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-19-2011, 08:16 AM
More WPI junk.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 09:04 AM
More WPI junk.

Uh. No. Star link. Star product.

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-19-2011, 09:06 AM
Uh. No. Star link. Star product.

My bad LoL

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 09:08 AM
“Everything was different,” McClain said of the past week. “More meeting time. More football time. Learning your opponent better, understanding your opponent. I know I watched more film this week than I watched all year. Everything was different, man. Good different.”

What was Haley doing all year with the team? Were they still on their preseason schedule?

splatbass
12-19-2011, 09:12 AM
This is dangerous. Chiefs players are lobbying openly for Crennel to get the job.

64-year old interim head coaches don't win shit in this league.



His age shouldn't be a problem. Marv Levy went to the SB 4 times at Crennel's age. I wouldn't worry about it. Young kids like you don't realize that 64 isn't that old these days.

BoneKrusher
12-19-2011, 09:14 AM
“Everything was different,” McClain said of the past week. “More meeting time. More football time. Learning your opponent better, understanding your opponent. I know I watched more film this week than I watched all year. Everything was different, man. Good different.”

What was Haley doing all year with the team? Were they still on their preseason schedule?

it seems Haley was busy figuring out ways to screw Pioli..

BigChiefTablet
12-19-2011, 09:15 AM
I'm all in for Romeo getting the job. And not just because they won yesterday. I think he would make a great head coach for this team, and who gives a damn what happened in Cleveland.

It beats the hell out of McDaniels, who is ruining the Rams worse than he ruined Denver. And it's not like Jeff Fischer has ever won a damn thing either.

BoneKrusher
12-19-2011, 09:20 AM
I'm all in for Romeo getting the job. And not just because they won yesterday. I think he would make a great head coach for this team, and who gives a damn what happened in Cleveland.


and we must keep in mind Bill Billichick didnt succeed in Cleveland his first try as a HC.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 09:20 AM
You're comparing apples to oranges. Individual records are bound to fall.

You can bring up other old head coaches but that's not really an argument for Romeo. All those guys were proven head coaches.

Keep moving the goalposts, Clay. You told me to find old SuperBowl winning coaches. I gave you three. But that doesn't meet with your agenda so it's not good enough. Do you even realize you do that? It's like debating with a teenager.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 09:36 AM
This is dangerous. Chiefs players are lobbying openly for Crennel to get the job.

Herm said this morning that he thinks Romeo already has the job sewn up.

The Chiefs need to re-sign Bowe - what if Bowe really wants Romeo?

It's a horrible situation to be in. All the more reason to not make hasty changes in the middle of a lost season. Now you might be stuck with a guy that's not your first choice.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 09:37 AM
“Everything was different,” McClain said of the past week. “More meeting time. More football time. Learning your opponent better, understanding your opponent. I know I watched more film this week than I watched all year. Everything was different, man. Good different.”

What was Haley doing all year with the team? Were they still on their preseason schedule?

They were lifting weights. Haley was WAY too pre-occupied with weight/fitness...

Chiefnj2
12-19-2011, 09:40 AM
Lets see if Romeo can keep them focused after a big win. One of Haley's biggest problems was lack of consistency.

I can't say how much I would love it if the West came down to the final game against Denver.

trndobrd
12-19-2011, 09:45 AM
Lets see if Romeo can keep them focused after a big win. One of Haley's biggest problems was lack of consistency.

I can't say how much I would love it if the West came down to the final game against Denver.


This. Getting the players fired up for the defending SB champs, a new coach and QB is one thing. Keeping them playing at a high level through a couple weeks of Division opponents is another. If Crennel can keep them playing at the same level for the next two weeks, paint his name on the HC parking spot.

InChiefsHell
12-19-2011, 10:10 AM
That's what I'm saying. This is a three week audition. Once the season is over, you take a look at how the team performed with Romeo, and you go from there. I'm not saying crown him now, but two more weeks like this and I'd say hell yeah.

Baby Lee
12-19-2011, 10:12 AM
The defensive players openly campaigned for Gunther. We saw how that worked out.

I put at least a LITTLE bit less credence behind an offseason campaign than a beat the SB champs campaign.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 10:18 AM
I put at least a LITTLE bit less credence behind an offseason campaign than a beat the SB champs campaign.

I don't know why you'd put any in either.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 10:19 AM
Herm said this morning that he thinks Romeo already has the job sewn up.

The Chiefs need to re-sign Bowe - what if Bowe really wants Romeo?

It's a horrible situation to be in. All the more reason to not make hasty changes in the middle of a lost season. Now you might be stuck with a guy that's not your first choice.

You don't let a WR dictate coaching hires. C'mon, man.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 10:22 AM
You don't let a WR dictate coaching hires. C'mon, man.

I didn't say *I* would. I'm merely asking the question.

Pioli put himself in a very, very bad situation. His interim coach just beat the undefeated SB champs.

If he wins 1 - or God forbid, BOTH - of the last 2, it doesn't matter who Pioli wants as HC. If he doesn't keep Crennel, there's going to be acrimony amongst both the players AND the fans.

This all falls on Pioli, from the day he hired Haley in the first place.

ct
12-19-2011, 10:22 AM
This. Getting the players fired up for the defending SB champs, a new coach and QB is one thing. Keeping them playing at a high level through a couple weeks of Division opponents is another. If Crennel can keep them playing at the same level for the next two weeks, paint his name on the HC parking spot.

This. This exactly.

ct
12-19-2011, 10:26 AM
I didn't say *I* would. I'm merely asking the question.

Pioli put himself in a very, very bad situation. His interim coach just beat the undefeated SB champs.

If he wins 1 - or God forbid, BOTH - of the last 2, it doesn't matter who Pioli wants as HC. If he doesn't keep Crennel, there's going to be acrimony amongst both the players AND the fans.

This all falls on Pioli, from the day he hired Haley in the first place.

Very solid points!!

The Haley hire was a mistake, done very late in the game, so to speak. If he really turned out to hate him, but then couldn't fire him cause of our mirage of an AFC West Title season, then yet again he's put himself in a no-win situation, dicatated FOR him. I think at this point, he's gotta be prayin Romeo get this team to perform as well these last 2 weeks to justify hiring him, or an epic fail to justify not. Anything in between, and he may be writing his own farewell legacy.

vailpass
12-19-2011, 10:26 AM
LMAO

Dicky McElephant
12-19-2011, 10:27 AM
If he gets hired....then he better bring in a capable OC and a young DC to learn from him. And I don't fucking mean Josh McDaniels either.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 10:28 AM
Very solid points!!

The Haley hire was a mistake, done very late in the game, so to speak. If he really turned out to hate him, but then couldn't fire him cause of our mirage of an AFC West Title season, then yet again he's put himself in a no-win situation, dicatated FOR him. I think at this point, he's gotta be prayin Romeo get this team to perform as well these last 2 weeks to justify hiring him, or an epic fail to justify not. Anything in between, and he may be writing his own farewell legacy.

I think there's at least some validity to the idea that Crennel was brought here in case this type of scenario were to occur. In other words, he was going to be the HC at some point, regardless.

BigRichard
12-19-2011, 10:29 AM
Herm said this morning that he thinks Romeo already has the job sewn up.

The Chiefs need to re-sign Bowe - what if Bowe really wants Romeo?

It's a horrible situation to be in. All the more reason to not make hasty changes in the middle of a lost season. Now you might be stuck with a guy that's not your first choice.

I would probably agree with Herm here. The reason I say this is because if you look how Romeo was talking about the QB change to Orton and how if Orton continues to play good it could be permanent. He is talking like he will be the one making the call next year. If it isn't the case it seems like he is acting very much like it will be.

Sofa King
12-19-2011, 10:29 AM
If he gets hired....then he better bring in a capable OC and a young DC to learn from him. And I don't ****ing mean Josh McDaniels either.

This. Very much this.

Although you forgot to mention QB, but i think that's a given.

Dicky McElephant
12-19-2011, 10:30 AM
I think there's at least some validity to the idea that Crennel was brought here in case this type of scenario were to occur. In other words, he was going to be the HC at some point, regardless.

Crennel probably told Pioli that when he was brought in. He wasn't going to accept the DC job unless he would get a shot at the HC job down the line.

Red Brooklyn
12-19-2011, 10:31 AM
If he gets hired....then he better bring in a capable OC and a young DC to learn from him. And I don't fucking mean Josh McDaniels either.
Sweet Chocolate Jesus, this! One hundred times this.

Baby Lee
12-19-2011, 10:32 AM
I don't know why you'd put any in either.

degrees of credence =! dispositive.

You know, for a guy who seems to constantly decry 'binary thinking' you offer very little regarding building a successful franchise beyond 'suck as hard as you can for a year and grab the best college QB in the draft, rinse and repeat until it sticks.'

It may be contrary to Chiefs history, giving you a patina of indie cred, but it's as simplistic as any other autodidact on here.

Dicky McElephant
12-19-2011, 10:35 AM
And I'm not lobbying for Crennel to get the job either. I'd rather have someone from outside the tree. But after this week....it's almost a foregone conclusion that RAC gets the job. There are a few things (which I've stated above) that will need to happen.

1. Hire a capable OC (not McDaniels)
2. Hire a young up and coming DC.
3. Draft a QB in the 1st round next year.
4. Cut Matt Cassel.
5. Re-sign Orton. (optional)

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 04:48 PM
You told me to find old SuperBowl winning coaches. I gave you three. .

No, I didn't.

Here is what I said:

Find me a 64-year old interim head coach who went on to win a SB.


Doesn't exist.

You can find a few guys who were already on staff and promoted to HC after the previous HC left (John Madden, George Seifert), but they were ALL under 50.

There's 0 reason to believe Crennel could win a Super Bowl here as HC.

And we haven't even discussed the worst part of hiring Crennel - we'll need a NEW head coach in four, maybe five years MAX when he retires.

Bad fucking idea.

Fritz88
12-19-2011, 05:01 PM
In Romeo's first conference, he says that a new HC has to be able to hire his own coaches.

If RAC gets the job and Pioli forces McDainles on him, we have a problem.

durtyrute
12-19-2011, 05:04 PM
KEEP ROMEO

Phobia
12-19-2011, 05:18 PM
There's 0 reason to believe Crennel could win a Super Bowl here as HC.

There's zero reason to believe anybody but Hank Stram will win a superbowl in KC because that's what 50 years of NFL history has taught us. Somebody get to work raising that man from the dead.

LOCOChief
12-19-2011, 05:25 PM
And we haven't even discussed the worst part of hiring Crennel - we'll need a NEW head coach in four, maybe five years MAX when he retires.

Bad ****ing idea.

unless there are no attractive candidates this year to choose from, I don't see any worth going against the grain of the team at the moment.

Someone will develope / surface of the course of the next couple of years if not within this organization. You know Pioli / Clark would concern themselves with the same issue.

This young team has seen considerable change, maybe Romeo is stability if just for the time being.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 05:29 PM
And we haven't even discussed the worst part of hiring Crennel - we'll need a NEW head coach in four, maybe five years MAX when he retires.

If they bring Cassel back and don't get a real QB, we'll need a new HC AND a new GM in TWO.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 05:57 PM
If they bring Cassel back and don't get a real QB, we'll need a new HC AND a new GM in TWO.

Yep.

If Crennel is hired and we don't bring in a young QB we're just waiting for these clowns to get fired.

Waste of time.

Okie_Apparition
12-19-2011, 06:31 PM
I don't understand connecting McDaniels as the OC
to me he is Todd Haley

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 07:34 PM
degrees of credence =! dispositive.

You know, for a guy who seems to constantly decry 'binary thinking' you offer very little regarding building a successful franchise beyond 'suck as hard as you can for a year and grab the best college QB in the draft, rinse and repeat until it sticks.'

It may be contrary to Chiefs history, giving you a patina of indie cred, but it's as simplistic as any other autodidact on here.

It just so happens that it is more complex than that, but you're being reductive for the sake of rhetoric.

You can't win in the NFL without a top shelf quarterback anymore. That's the foundation of the house. What you want to do with the framing, interior walls, plumbing, wiring, etc, leaves a world of possible different directions (3-4, 4-3, Cover 2, Coryell, WCO, Earhardt, etc.), but without a QB in this league, you're building on a sinkhole.

With regard to your initial statement, I still don't see why it is of any concern. Players have long proven to be terrible evaluators of coaches, this team specifically. If we are to adopt one of your statements from some days past, much like a player who would quit because of a losing environment, a player that would quit or not give their full effort because of a coaching hire isn't a player worth having at all.

Brock
12-19-2011, 07:36 PM
It just so happens that it is more complex than that, but you're being reductive for the sake of rhetoric.

You can't win in the NFL without a top shelf quarterback anymore. That's the foundation of the house. What you want to do with the framing, interior walls, plumbing, wiring, etc, leaves a world of possible different directions (3-4, 4-3, Cover 2, Coryell, WCO, Earhardt, etc.), but without a QB in this league, you're building on a sinkhole.

I think pretty much everybody wants a top shelf QB.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 07:46 PM
I think pretty much everybody wants a top shelf QB.

Which makes me wonder where the false binary is kicking in. You get a FA QB like Drew Brees, what, maybe once every 5-10 years? So if you can't procure him through that method, it's going to have to be the draft. Then, it's all about negotiating the supply vs. the demand.

Low supply of QBs this year, high demand=need for a high pick.

There was a higher demand last year, lower in 2009.

It's not just "you either hope the team gets the highest pick possible" or not, it's realizing when certain battles, like this season, are lost, and doing the best with what you have, hoping the team develops while also putting themselves in the best long-term position.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 07:52 PM
IMO after thinking about it for some time, I believe Romeo needs to stay as HC in 2012.

The players obviously like him, A LOT. They believe in him. He knows how to motivate them, and he has them believing in themselves.

If Romeo doesn't keep the HC job, the players will be distraught. Romeo will be frustrated (as he has stated, he wants to be a HC again).

The new HC might not want to keep Romeo around. And the LAST thing we need to happen, is to have Romeo leave the Chiefs. We finally have a pretty damn good defense (without a pro bowl safety btw).

If Romeo leaves, the key players of our foundation will not be happy. The defensive players are in love with him.

But at the end, my main point is that we can't afford to lose Crennel.

We can get away with keeping Crennel as HC, as long as we hire a real OC, and let him pick his own staff. He would likely either promote a guy currently on staff to be the new DC, or he could find his own guy who believes in the same philosophy. But I would actually be ok with Crennel continuing to run the defense on gameday as long as we fix the OC...And of course we need a QB.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:08 PM
If Romeo doesn't keep the HC job, the players will be distraught.

:rolleyes:

They'll get over it.

The last thing we need at this point is a short-term HC.

dirk digler
12-19-2011, 08:11 PM
The defensive players openly campaigned for Gunther. We saw how that worked out.

The only thing I would say to this is that Gun and Gantz had never been head coaches before where Crennel would be on his second run. He is a smart man maybe he learned a lot and would be better the second go around or not.

DeezNutz
12-19-2011, 08:13 PM
The funny thing is, at the beginning of the game I must have sarcastically remarked about how "well coached" we were about 4 different times: 12 men on the field x 3?, terrible challenge, ultra-conservative plays, etc.

Wins make for good deodorant.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:13 PM
:rolleyes:

They'll get over it.

The last thing we need at this point is a short-term HC.

If he works out well, then he wont be a short term HC.

I know you like Fisher because he is the picture of continuity and consistency, but why would he want to continue to run a 3-4? The 3-4 is just now starting to work well for us, so it would not be a good thing to switch it up now.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:15 PM
If he works out well, then he wont be a short term HC.


Yes, he could coach well into his 70s. LMAO

Dude will retire within 3, 4, maybe 5 years. He will be 65 in June.

I'm sure he would be a hot head-coaching commodity if he wasn't under contract with the Chiefs, though.

dirk digler
12-19-2011, 08:17 PM
The funny thing is, at the beginning of the game I must have sarcastically remarked about how "well coached" we were about 4 different times: 12 men on the field x 3?, terrible challenge, ultra-conservative plays, etc.

Wins make for good deodorant.

McCarthy was out coached

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:18 PM
McCarthy was out coached

How?

The biggest factor in the game was most likely all the drops by Green Bay's receivers.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:18 PM
Yes, he could coach well into his 70s. LMAO

Dude will retire within 3, 4, maybe 5 years. He will be 65 in June.

I'm sure he would be a hot head-coaching commodity if he wasn't under contract with the Chiefs, though.

I guess I've never understood the whole age thing with coaches.

If a guy still has a real passion for coaching, and for reaching the ultimate goal, then it shouldn't matter what his age is.

Coaching isn't a physical job, it's a mental job. I don't see why it matters whether he's 50 or 70.

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 08:19 PM
The funny thing is, at the beginning of the game I must have sarcastically remarked about how "well coached" we were about 4 different times: 12 men on the field x 3?, terrible challenge, ultra-conservative plays, etc.

Wins make for good deodorant.

I am not in the keep Orton long term bandwagon, period. Keep him and draft a QB maybe but if we draft a guy may as well play him.

But he was the deodorant, he was the only difference that I saw from a team standpoint.

It just shows how bad Pioli is at QB evaluation which does not bode well for the future.

DeezNutz
12-19-2011, 08:21 PM
I am not in the keep Orton long term bandwagon, period. Keep him and draft a QB maybe but if we draft a guy may as well play him.

But he was the deodorant, he was the only difference that I saw from a team standpoint.

It just shows how bad Pioli is at QB evaluation which does not bode well for the future.

No question that there was a stark difference with Orton. He was composed, didn't look at the rush, and went through progressions.

Essentially, he was everything Cassel isn't, but that doesn't mean that he's the answer either. Just accentuates the Cassel suck.

dirk digler
12-19-2011, 08:21 PM
How?

The biggest factor in the game was most likely all the drops by Green Bay's receivers.

He had no answer for our offense or defense. He was out-schemed and out coached

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:23 PM
I guess I've never understood the whole age thing with coaches.

If a guy still has a real passion for coaching, and for reaching the ultimate goal, then it shouldn't matter what his age is.

Coaching isn't a physical job, it's a mental job. I don't see why it matters whether he's 50 or 70.

The vast majority of Super Bowls are won by coaches under the age of 60.

If Romeo shocked the world here and won a SB he would literally be the oldest SB winning coach EVER.

Quite frankly, Romeo has a ton of rings and is fat as hell. How do we even know he's not just looking for another fat paycheck before he retires?

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:24 PM
He had no answer for our offense or defense. He was out-schemed and out coached

I agree, because McCarty couldn't adjust his offensive gameplan. GB could have ran it on us, but they chose to come out passing heavy. If they had just mixed the run with the pass, it would have kept our defense off balance.

But really we knew what they were going to be doing every play, therefore it was easy to just tee off, and get pressure on Rodgers. That's just 1 factor of how McCarthy was out coached.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:25 PM
He had no answer for our offense or defense. He was out-schemed and out coached

I disagree. I think our players out executed Green Bay's.

If their receivers hold on to 6 or 7 dropped passes it's a different game.

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 08:26 PM
He had no answer for our offense or defense. He was out-schemed and out coached

The GB drops are being given too much credence.

The Chiefs flat out outplayed GB.

KC still had coaching issues especially on ST and goal line situations.

Yea we won but we should have been up way more than we were and it shouldn't have been as close in the 4th quarter.Not complaining just pointing out what I was thinking during the game.

I am curious to see how the next 2 weeks go because Orton basically played one of his best games setting a career completion % high.

What are the odds he keep it up? I guess we shall see.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 08:27 PM
The vast majority of Super Bowls are won by coaches under the age of 60.

You don't say? Strange how that works. The vast majority of retired people are over 60.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 08:27 PM
How?

The biggest factor in the game was most likely all the drops by Green Bay's receivers.

...


For this week's most confounding coaching decisions, we turned to our followers on Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/billbarnwell), who alerted us to a variety of different blunders. While there are a few common threads we'll ignore (John Fox being ultra-conservative, Tom Coughlin challenging out of sheer desperation), there are still plenty of situations to break down, thanks to the usual hodgepodge of curious game-calling choices. And we'll start with the Packers-Chiefs tilt, where @JoeConte (http://twitter.com/#%21/JoeConte) pointed out that Romeo Crennel repeatedly bungled his short-yardage decisions.
On the opening drive, the Chiefs had two chances from the one-yard line and decided to throw passes with Kyle Orton both times. With a 0-0 game against the best offense in the league, they chose to kick a field goal. Sure, we know that the Packers ended up scoring just 14 points, but you can't dance with the champ! A 3-0 margin with 54 minutes to go is essentially never going to hold up.
Before we go any further, let's note that the math here is very simple. The average team will score on these carries 56 percent of the time, so your expected outcome by scoring is (7 points * .56) = 3.92 points. You can't score 3.92 points by kicking, so you're essentially giving up a full point by kicking. The Packers have also allowed teams to convert in 75 percent of power runs (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl), the third-worst rate in the league. So our 56 percent estimate is conservative. You also get the benefit of backing the Green Bay offense up inside their 1-yard line as opposed to giving them the result of a kickoff, which is an average of about 22 yards. Based on the average number of points a team scores with a drive that starts from the 1-yard line as opposed to the 22-yard line, you're adding about another full point of value. By kicking instead of going for it, in even an average situation, you're basically throwing two points in the garbage. When you're playing an offensive juggernaut and it's early in the first quarter, well, you simply can't throw points away.
It would be one thing if Crennel just had no faith in his team's short-yardage capabilities, but he changed his mind on Kansas City's first drive of the second quarter. Again, the Chiefs failed on second-and-1 and ended up facing a fourth-and-inches with 3:28 left. They were up 6-0; again, you can't assume that a nine-point lead is going to hold up against a dominant offense. This time, for some reason, Crennel chose to go for it. It was the correct decision, but what was different about this situation as opposed to the first one? The Chiefs were promptly stuffed when they ran a simple handoff up the middle.
That would all have been weird enough, but Crennel got to face a third decision in this same vein! With a 9-7 lead early in the fourth quarter, the Chiefs were faced with a fourth-and-goal from the Green Bay 2-yard line. It's harder to convert from the 2-yard line, but not by much — the conversion rate falls from 55.2 percent to 48.6 percent. That's still an expected total of 3.4 points, so it's better than a field goal, and you still get the superior follow-up situation of pinning a team extremely deep in their own territory (something that a dominant Chiefs pass rush might have appreciated). You're giving up 1.4 points by kicking. This decision was more defensible because it pushed the lead outside of one field goal, but there was 11:28 left in the game when Crennel chose to kick as opposed to going for it. Color commentator Daryl Johnston chimed in to say that it was a good decision because the Chiefs had been stuffed on the previous drive, which is one of the dumbest things you'll hear a commentator say all year. Stories will be written today about how the Chiefs won under the leadership of Romeo Crennel, but don't buy it. They won in spite of him.

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 08:28 PM
I disagree. I think our players out executed Green Bay's.

If their receivers hold on to 6 or 7 dropped passes it's a different game.

There weren't 6 or 7 drops. Many of the passes yea they had a shot at but you don't catch all of those unless you are red hot which GB typically has been.

I would say more like 3 real drops.

Had the officials not been retarded we get a safety as well. It works both ways.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:30 PM
The vast majority of Super Bowls are won by coaches under the age of 60.

If Romeo shocked the world here and won a SB he would literally be the oldest SB winning coach EVER.

Quite frankly, Romeo has a ton of rings and is fat as hell. How do we even know he's not just looking for another fat paycheck before he retires?

We don't know. Just like we wouldn't know if ANY coach was just looking for a paycheck. Cause whether or not you have won a SB, in the NFL, as a coach, you still get paid great money.

But I believe it's obvious that he still cares, and that he would like to take this team to it's potential.

And I see how you're using history as a factor for your argument, but new records and marks are set every single season. One day, a coach as old as 70 years old WILL win a SB.

And it still doesn't explain how age should effect coaching. If there is a true reasoning, then I want to know what it is.

dirk digler
12-19-2011, 08:30 PM
I agree, because McCarty couldn't adjust his offensive gameplan. GB could have ran it on us, but they chose to come out passing heavy. If they had just mixed the run with the pass, it would have kept our defense off balance.

But really we knew what they were going to be doing every play, therefore it was easy to just tee off, and get pressure on Rodgers. That's just 1 factor of how McCarthy was out coached.

Yep

I disagree. I think our players out executed Green Bay's.

If their receivers hold on to 6 or 7 dropped passes it's a different game.

And if Hali hadn't been held on every play they would have won by 2-3 TD's. ;)

dirk digler
12-19-2011, 08:33 PM
The GB drops are being given too much credence.

The Chiefs flat out outplayed GB.

KC still had coaching issues especially on ST and goal line situations.

Yea we won but we should have been up way more than we were and it shouldn't have been as close in the 4th quarter.Not complaining just pointing out what I was thinking during the game.

I am curious to see how the next 2 weeks go because Orton basically played one of his best games setting a career completion % high.

What are the odds he keep it up? I guess we shall see.

I agree totally. Our team wanted it and GB thought they could just show up and win by 4 TD's. Crennel had this team ready to play and his defense just dominated the Packers scheme wise and energy wise.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:35 PM
I agree totally. Our team wanted it and GB thought they could just show up and win by 4 TD's. Crennel had this team ready to play and his defense just dominated the Packers scheme wise and energy wise.

The scheme defensively, and offensively were both terrific. They looked like they put in some serious work in the film room, and it paid off. Maybe Muir didn't fall asleep this time.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:39 PM
And it still doesn't explain how age should effect coaching. If there is a true reasoning, then I want to know what it is.

It's not JUST age. It's age and the fact that Romeo would be up for 0 head-coaching jobs if he was fired today.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:41 PM
There weren't 6 or 7 drops.

Yes there were. I've already seen two and I'm not even finished with the 1st quarter.

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 08:43 PM
It's not JUST age. It's age and the fact that Romeo would be up for 0 head-coaching jobs if he was fired today.

Just out of curiosity, who do you want?

I don't think Crennel will take us to the promised land but I also think we could do worse looking at whats out there.

Who is a totally hot HC candidate we could/should go with? I honestly don;t know at this point.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:43 PM
It's not JUST age. It's age and the fact that Romeo would be up for 0 head-coaching jobs if he was fired today.

I see that as narrow minded reason to oust Romeo from the head coaching job. If those are your main reasons for wanting him to be replaced, that's pretty lame. And I know you're not a narrow minded person, so I'm surprised.

splatbass
12-19-2011, 08:43 PM
Yes, he could coach well into his 70s. LMAO



Why not?

Jack McKeon, manager of Florida Marlins - 80

John Gagliardi, head coach St. John's university - 84

Joe Paterno was coaching at 85 when he was fired.

Bobby Bowden was 80 when he retired.

Casey Stengal managed the NY Yankees at 76.

Hubie Brown was named NBA coach of the year at 72.

64 isn't that old. It may seem like it to a 30ish guy that is going on 15 like you, but it isn't.

dirk digler
12-19-2011, 08:45 PM
Just out of curiosity, who do you want?

I don't think Crennel will take us to the promised land but I also think we could do worse looking at whats out there.

Who is a totally hot HC candidate we could/should go with? I honestly don;t know at this point.

He wants Fisher who is Marty Part 10. Been there done that

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:45 PM
Why not?

Jack McKeon, manager of Florida Marlins - 80

John Gagliardi, head coach St. John's university - 84

Joe Paterno was coaching at 85 when he was fired.

Bobby Bowden was 80 when he retired.

Casey Stengal managed the NY Yankees at 76.

Hubie Brown was named NBA coach of the year at 72.

64 isn't that old. It may seem like it to a 30ish guy that is going on 15 like you, but it isn't.

Dick LeBeau.

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 08:47 PM
He wants Fisher who is Marty Part 10. Been there done that

I am not sold on Fisher.

I am just so scared of McDaniel getting the job any other name sounds like a decent option though I know that's not the case.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:48 PM
Why not?

Jack McKeon, manager of Florida Marlins - 80

John Gagliardi, head coach St. John's university - 84

Joe Paterno was coaching at 85 when he was fired.

Bobby Bowden was 80 when he retired.

Casey Stengal managed the NY Yankees at 76.

Hubie Brown was named NBA coach of the year at 72.

64 isn't that old. It may seem like it to a 30ish guy that is going on 15 like you, but it isn't.

Oh hey, look, lots of NFL Super Bowl winners on that list! LMAO

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:49 PM
You don't say? Strange how that works. The vast majority of retired people are over 60.

Oh hey, look, lots of NFL Super Bowl winners on that list! LMAO

I'd say Phobia brings up a pretty obvious point on this topic.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:51 PM
I see that as narrow minded reason to oust Romeo from the head coaching job.

So we've had a starting QB that no one else wants, we should certainly get a HC to match.

dirk digler
12-19-2011, 08:51 PM
I am not sold on Fisher.

I am just so scared of McDaniel getting the job any other name sounds like a decent option though I know that's not the case.

Don't want McD's in any capacity on this team except maybe jock collector.

splatbass
12-19-2011, 08:54 PM
Oh hey, look, lots of NFL Super Bowl winners on that list! LMAO

Lots of winning coaches. Doesn't matter if it is the NFL or not. Coaching is coaching. And you are an agist. Not surprising for someone with the emotional age of a middle school student.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:54 PM
So we've had a starting QB that no one else wants, we should certainly get a HC to match.

Say Romeo doesn't like Cassel as our guy in 2012. Say Romeo believes we need to draft a QB early. Would you be opposed to keeping him if that was his thought process? All the offense needs is a real QB. The defense is great. Fix the QB and we have a legit championship contender regardless of who the coach is.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 08:56 PM
I'd say Phobia brings up a pretty obvious point on this topic.

Not really. We're talking the vast, vast majority of super bowl winning head coaches are under 60. Like, 24 of 27 if my math is right.

The odds are so low, the idea that we would just hand Romeo the job is shockingly stupid.

And those ancient head coaches also had superior quarterbacks. Where's Romeo's?

petegz28
12-19-2011, 08:57 PM
It's not JUST age. It's age and the fact that Romeo would be up for 0 head-coaching jobs if he was fired today.

A) You don't know that after what he has done with our defense

B) The guy has experience and knows our system therefore not putting us back into a "rebuilding..just wait 5 years" mode for the 3rd time in a row

C) He has more SB rings than any other option out there. That is experience you just can't pass up

D) He was the last coach to take a shitty Cleveland team with a shitty front office to a winning season. Yes, that is saying something


If this team looks good the rest of the season you MUST give Romeo a serious look. Unlike Cleveland he has talented players to coach this time around. He has arguably 4-5 of some of the best defensive players in the league. He has one of the best RB's in the league and possibly one of the better TE's in the league with one of the better WR corps in the league.

Get this guy a QB worth a squirt of piss and an OC that knows WTF the deal is and I think Romeo's experience will pay off.

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 08:57 PM
Say Romeo doesn't like Cassel as our guy in 2012. Say Romeo believes we need to draft a QB early. Would you be opposed to keeping him if that was his thought process? All the offense needs is a real QB. The defense is great. Fix the QB and we have a legit championship contender regardless of who the coach is.\


Thing is I need to know these things to make an informed decision.

Maybe CP should get to interview all candidates.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 08:59 PM
Not really. We're talking the vast, vast majority of super bowl winning head coaches are under 60. Like, 24 of 27 if my math is right.

The odds are so low, the idea that we would just hand Romeo the job is shockingly stupid.

And those ancient head coaches also had superior quarterbacks. Where's Romeo's?

The historic odds are low, I see. But did you also take into account how many coaches were actually 60 or older during those seasons also? The point Phobia was making is that "Of course there aren't many SB winners over 60 years old, because the majority of coaches are 60 or younger."

Just paraphrasing.

lcarus
12-19-2011, 08:59 PM
IM very weary of Romeo. I like the guy, but hes old and dude basically did nothing in Cleveland. Even Bellichek had 1 decent season with a playoff win in Cleveland. IM fearful that all this is is a Post Haley hangover bump.......

He had a decent season in Cleveland. They went 10-6 but missed the playoffs.

DTLB58
12-19-2011, 09:00 PM
They absolutely did not. Lamar Hunt met in secret with 8 players at Nick Lowery's house. Gansz was given the job just in time for the strike of 1987 and was saddled with most of Mackovic's assistants who were disloyal and downright underhanded. He also had an awful front office led by GM Jim Schaaf, a baseball man who somehow managed to work his way up through the ranks of the Chiefs organization in the 70's. Injuries, bad personnel decisions, the strike, and being thrown under the bus by a former assistant ruined Gansz's 2-year campaign as a Skipper. After a 4-win 1988, Carl Peterson sent him packing as his first power move after being handed the reins by Lamar.

Even if you construe that to be "openly lobbying", it doesn't have a single thing to do with Crennel. Gansz was an amazing coach and there really aren't many people who would say otherwise. You can't look at his W/L record under Schaaf and the many other circumstances which permeated his time in KC and say "look how that turned out" as though he were a Herm Edwards, Paul Wiggin, or Todd Haley.

Gansz was an amazing ST's coach. There is nothing else to proof otherwise nor more.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 09:01 PM
B) The guy has experience and knows our system therefore not putting us back into a "rebuilding..just wait 5 years" mode for the 3rd time in a row


This is a decent argument for keeping Romeo, especially because we're nearing the point of no return on some of our better players.

But if Romeo doesn't find a QB we're going to waste his golden years, anyway.

I can probably grudgingly accept Romeo as head coach if he makes an attempt to go get a QB.

If not, he's an old fart wasting our time.

lcarus
12-19-2011, 09:02 PM
We could always sign Romeo as HC and just shit can him if we suck? There will always be another coach to go out and get if things don't work out.

DTLB58
12-19-2011, 09:03 PM
McClain said of the past week. “More meeting time. More football time. Learning your opponent better, understanding your opponent. I know I watched more film this week than I watched all year.

Wasn't that by his own choosing?

petegz28
12-19-2011, 09:03 PM
IM very weary of Romeo. I like the guy, but hes old and dude basically did nothing in Cleveland. Even Bellichek had 1 decent season with a playoff win in Cleveland. IM fearful that all this is is a Post Haley hangover bump.......

Did nothing? Did you see the talent he was given in Cleveland? Tell me, who has done anything in Cleveland since Marty? BB was fired from there. Romeo took them to their last winning season with dick for talent.

I am not saying we sign Romeo tomorrow but to be weary is rather obserd.

petegz28
12-19-2011, 09:05 PM
This is a decent argument for keeping Romeo, especially because we're nearing the point of no return on some of our better players.

But if Romeo doesn't find a QB we're going to waste his golden years, anyway.

I can probably grudgingly accept Romeo as head coach if he makes an attempt to go get a QB.

If not, he's an old fart wasting our time.

The attempt at a QB is not necessarily up to the HC. You do have the GM who unfortunately carries a lot of weight in that decision. Having said that Romeo made the best and though obvious decision, he made it by starting Orton and using Stanzi as the backup and not even activating Palko. That's a step in the right direction regardless.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 09:05 PM
McClain said of the past week. “More meeting time. More football time. Learning your opponent better, understanding your opponent. I know I watched more film this week than I watched all year.

Wasn't that by his own choosing?

He was probably forced to watch extra film because he had more snaps in this game than any other all season long.

WhiteWhale
12-19-2011, 09:05 PM
Did nothing? Did you see the talent he was given in Cleveland? Tell me, who has done anything in Cleveland since Marty? BB was fired from there. Romeo took them to their last winning season with dick for talent.

I am not saying we sign Romeo tomorrow but to be weary is rather obserd.

I'm not sure you can compare the 'pre-expansion' Browns to the current expansion team.

Remember the team Marty coached plays in Baltimore now.

This Browns franchise has sucked since their inception.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 09:07 PM
The attempt at a QB is not necessarily up to the HC. You do have the GM who unfortunately carries a lot of weight in that decision. Having said that Romeo made the best and though obvious decision, he made it by starting Orton and using Stanzi as the backup and not even activating Palko. That's a step in the right direction regardless.

I agree with that. The way Romeo is making statements right now is refreshing. He didn't wait until last second to name a starter. He named his starter Wednesday. He doesn't fuck around. He gets to the point.

petegz28
12-19-2011, 09:07 PM
I'm not sure you can compare the 'pre-expansion' Browns to the current expansion team.

Remember the team Marty coached plays in Baltimore now.

This Browns franchise has sucked since their inception.

That sort of makes my point. Romeo was dealt shitty players and somehow squeeked out a winning season. And if I remember right didn't he damn near beat the high flying Chiefs until his player took his helmet off and Green somehow avoided a sack and got the ball handed to Tait who ran us into FG range?

WhiteWhale
12-19-2011, 09:11 PM
That sort of makes my point. Romeo was dealt shitty players and somehow squeeked out a winning season. And if I remember right didn't he damn near beat the high flying Chiefs until his player took his helmet off and Green somehow avoided a sack and got the ball handed to Tait who ran us into FG range?

No. Romeo was in New England in 2002 during the helmet game. He didn't become coach of Cleveland until 2005.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 09:12 PM
lol Pete has his years all jacked up.

petegz28
12-19-2011, 09:13 PM
I agree with that. The way Romeo is making statements right now is refreshing. He didn't wait until last second to name a starter. He named his starter Wednesday. He doesn't **** around. He gets to the point.

That is what an effective coach does. This guy has been around to know what it takes to when. Yes, he has made mistakes, we all do. He is smart enough to have learned from them and adjusted to see where he went wrong. I'd take him over Fisher in a heartbeat. Fisher has never won anything and never been on a team (that I am aware of) that has won anything. Fisher is a Marty wanna-be and Marty kicked his ass all over the field. Haley wiped the Titans all over the field last year with Matt fucking Cassel.

Romeo has been on winning teams. SB winning teams. He has learned under some very successful people and programs. Maybe his 1st run at HC wasn't much to write home about but how many of us ever do good our 1st time at things? I think he has shown enough and has enough experience that giving him another shot at HC with some talented players is not a bad decision and could very well be a good decision.

And another intangible...he gets along with Pioli and Pioli repsects Romeo. Romeo didn't have to come here. He came here more or less as a favor to Pioli. He wants to coach, he wants to coach this team and a HC and GM that get along is something you MUST have.

I think Romeo is the kind of person he could tell Pioli "no" and Pioli says OK, you're the coach.

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 09:14 PM
lol Pete has his years all jacked up.

When has CP ever let fact trump opinion?

petegz28
12-19-2011, 09:14 PM
No. Romeo was in New England in 2002 during the helmet game. He didn't become coach of Cleveland until 2005.

Meh, I am high then. I thought he was in Cleveland then.

dirk digler
12-19-2011, 09:14 PM
The attempt at a QB is not necessarily up to the HC. You do have the GM who unfortunately carries a lot of weight in that decision. Having said that Romeo made the best and though obvious decision, he made it by starting Orton and using Stanzi as the backup and not even activating Palko. That's a step in the right direction regardless.

Yep. This team still needs to draft a QB regardless of who the HC is.

petegz28
12-19-2011, 09:17 PM
When has CP ever let fact trump opinion?

Well the fact is none of these great coaches ever win dick without a great QB. So to blame Romeo when he was handed the crap he had for QB's in Cleveland is not really fair then, is it? What did BB ever win without Brady? What did Shanny ever win without Elway? The list goes on, of course.


Get us a QB and Romeo will be fine. We have the rest of the pieces in place already.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 09:50 PM
And those ancient head coaches also had superior quarterbacks. Where's Romeo's?

Now that really is an astute point. Don't hire Crennel because he doesn't have a superior QB. Wouldn't we not be able to hire *ANY* coach for the Chiefs since he doesn't have a superior QB or is it just the combination of old guy along with no QB. Do you even think before you spew? I'm shocked you don't get hit by a car on a daily basis.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:00 PM
The point was that I don't think Romeo is going to go find himself a superior QB.

Considering how old he is, he may not even have the patience for a rookie.

Oh Snap
12-19-2011, 10:09 PM
Find me a 64-year old interim head coach who went on to win a SB.

If Crennel is our HC and actually wins a SB here it will shock everyone in the NFL. It would be unprecedented.

Sorry for being concerned when 50 years of NFL history says this won't work out.

And FYI, Dick was younger than Romeo when he won it.

Theres a first time for everything.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:14 PM
Theres a first time for everything.

This is no different than saying we can win a SB with Cassel.

okcchief
12-19-2011, 10:23 PM
If Goat Queefs doesn't like it then it's probably a great hire.

petegz28
12-19-2011, 10:23 PM
Not really. We're talking the vast, vast majority of super bowl winning head coaches are under 60. Like, 24 of 27 if my math is right.

The odds are so low, the idea that we would just hand Romeo the job is shockingly stupid.

And those ancient head coaches also had superior quarterbacks. Where's Romeo's?

Unfortunately just because Romeo took over as HC in week 15 they don't move the draft up.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:24 PM
If Goat Chiefs doesn't like it then it's probably a great hire.

I was against Herm from the beginning.

okcchief
12-19-2011, 10:26 PM
If we play well the last 2 games then I say why not. I'm not excited about the other options either.

Romeo is an upgrade from Haley and Herm at least. JFC the bar is low around here.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 10:28 PM
I don't want them to hire Crennel either. They love him now but what happens when the relationship goes stale?

splatbass
12-19-2011, 10:29 PM
The point was that I don't think Romeo is going to go find himself a superior QB.

Considering how old he is, he may not even have the patience for a rookie.

64 is not old. Do you know anyone that is over 60? You don't appear to.

petegz28
12-19-2011, 10:30 PM
I don't want them to hire Crennel either. They love him now but what happens when the relationship goes stale?

Yeah because he hasn't been a part of this team the last 2 years or anything. WTF do these players know about him?

Oh Snap
12-19-2011, 10:31 PM
crennel could coach for 5-10 years possibly. Yea hes old, and has some health issues. But you're speculating at best.

If he gives us the best chance to win, guess what? Ill take it! Especially if he builds this team into a winner! Sure I like Jeff Fisher, but we need to be realistic, crennel might be the best fit for us. (best available coaching option)

Phobia
12-19-2011, 10:31 PM
The point was that I don't think Romeo is going to go find himself a superior QB.

Considering how old he is, he may not even have the patience for a rookie.

You don't think? What do you think is going to happen due to his age? Is he going to keel over on the sideline? What are your specific concerns because "he's too old" and "no old people have ever won the SuperBowl" before aren't really very solid footing for your argument.

okcchief
12-19-2011, 10:32 PM
The main thing is getting rid of Cassel. I think Romeo could do a good job though I wouldn't jump up and down about the hire. Interim coaches never pan out but they usually don't have five rings as an assistant and previous head coaching experience. If he hires good people around him and let's them coach thats most of the battle.

The Frank Ganz comparison is stupid. He was a special teams coach. One of the worst hires in NFL history.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:33 PM
64 is not old. Do you know anyone that is over 60? You don't appear to.

Pretty old for an NFL head coach.

petegz28
12-19-2011, 10:33 PM
If Romeo is HC and Cassel is QB and we don't draft a QB in the 1st then you can pin it squarley on Pioli and therefore it wouldn't matter who was HC

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:35 PM
You don't think? What do you think is going to happen due to his age? Is he going to keel over on the sideline? What are your specific concerns because "he's too old" and "no old people have ever won the SuperBowl" before aren't really very solid footing for your argument.

24 of 27 is very solid footing.

The odds are astronomically against Romeo.

okcchief
12-19-2011, 10:35 PM
If Romeo is HC and Cassel is QB and we don't draft a QB in the 1st then you can pin it squarley on Pioli and therefore it wouldn't matter who was HC

If Cassel is QB it doesn't matter who the head coach is. We'll just have to wait for Pioli to get shit canned.

petegz28
12-19-2011, 10:37 PM
If Cassel is QB it doesn't matter who the head coach is. We'll just have to wait for Pioli to get shit canned.

Not necessarily. It's not out of the realm to see them draft a qb and bring Cassel back another year.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 10:37 PM
Pretty old for an NFL head coach.

You keep saying the same stupid crap over and over. Why? What are your specific concerns? Why can't he effectively head coach at his age? You never seemed to have a problem with him being defensive coordinator at his age. But now you have a random argument and your only data to back it up is "old interim coaches have never won a superbowl". Yeah, we get that part. It's an invalid argument. Post a fair argument or abandon the stupid "he's old" bit.

okcchief
12-19-2011, 10:38 PM
Not necessarily. It's not out of the realm to see them draft a qb and bring Cassel back another year.

If Cassel is on the roster they are obviously not capable of making good decisions. He has NOTHING to offer this team.

Okie_Apparition
12-19-2011, 10:38 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post?id=36146

How did the Chiefs stifle the Packers' passing game? Mostly with extra coverage and a standard four-man pass rush. According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Chiefs used at least five defensive backs on 86 percent of the Packers' plays Sunday. On top of that, they sent four or less pass rushers on 78.6 of Rodgers' dropbacks. As a result, Rodgers completed only two of 12 passes downfield, defined as 15 or more yards past the line of scrimmage -- the worst completion percentage on such throws all year. The Packers had four dropped passes, but Rodgers also had a tough time getting the ball into the small windows afforded by Chiefs coverage. He either underthrew or overthrew 10 of his 35 passes. Say what you will about the drops and Greg Jennings' absence, but on a relative scale there is no doubt Rodgers played the worst game of his season

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:38 PM
64 is not old. Do you know anyone that is over 60? You don't appear to.

I actually love old people. They are infinitely more interesting than young people, and less douchey.

Just don't see the value in Romeo as HC.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2011, 10:39 PM
Just don't see the value in Romeo as HC.

Yet you pimp Jeff Fisher.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 10:39 PM
Yeah because he hasn't been a part of this team the last 2 years or anything. WTF do these players know about him?

What a weak ass argument this team has experienced moderate success with him. Are you saying it won't get old if he performs like he did in Cleveland as the head coach? Bullshit.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 10:40 PM
24 of 27 is very solid footing.

The odds are astronomically against Romeo.

When Vegas starts calculating their odds based on the age of the head coach then I'll recognize your argument.

petegz28
12-19-2011, 10:40 PM
What a weak ass argument this team has experienced moderate success with him. Are you saying it won't get old if he performs like he did in Cleveland as the head coach? Bullshit.

That owuld be with any coach...JFC

The Bad Guy
12-19-2011, 10:41 PM
He had a decent season in Cleveland. They went 10-6 but missed the playoffs.

They made it. They roughed the kicker at the end and that screwed them beating Pitt I believe.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:42 PM
You keep saying the same stupid crap over and over. Why? What are your specific concerns? Why can't he effectively head coach at his age? You never seemed to have a problem with him being defensive coordinator at his age. But now you have a random argument and your only data to back it up is "old interim coaches have never won a superbowl". Yeah, we get that part. It's an invalid argument. Post a fair argument or abandon the stupid "he's old" bit.

I can't nail down specifics. But clearly old head coaches rarely succeed in the NFL, and are infrequently hired. There has to be valid reasons. I'm not going to attempt to argue against established NFL trends of success.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:45 PM
Yet you pimp Jeff Fisher.

Proven winner. Could coach here before AND after he starts qualifying for early-bird specials at Dennys.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 10:46 PM
Head coaches put in long hours, longer hours than anyone, coordinators included. A 65 year old guy who already is not in good health is absolutely going to be a concern given the stress and time requirements of the job.

Coordinator =/= Head Coach. Fans should know that, look at the guy who just got shitcanned.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2011, 10:47 PM
Proven winner. Could coach here before AND after he starts qualifying for early-bird specials at Dennys.

Proven loser as well.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 10:47 PM
Rob Chudzinski would be the best choice IMO and you would get to keep Romeo.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2011, 10:49 PM
Romeo would be the choice if you are bringing a young guy to groom under him ala Pepper Johnson. Jeff Fisher would just suck balls. If you want to build a super staff, then Kirk Ferentz would be the choice.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 10:50 PM
That owuld be with any coach...JFC

There hasn't been any solid arguments made for Crennel other than the fact the players like playing for him.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:50 PM
Head coaches put in long hours, longer hours than anyone, coordinators included. A 65 year old guy who already is not in good health is absolutely going to be a concern given the stress and time requirements of the job.


I'm surprised this had to be explained to anyone.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 10:51 PM
Romeo would be the choice if you are bringing a young guy to groom under him ala Pepper Johnson. Jeff Fisher would just suck balls. If you want to build a super staff, then Kirk Ferentz would be the choice.

Kirk Ferentz makes Gary Pinkel looks like he has an imagination when it comes to play calling. No thanks.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2011, 10:54 PM
Rob Chudzinski would be the best choice IMO and you would get to keep Romeo.

The big concern I have Chuzinski is he has only coached in the playoffs twice and both times as a tight ends coach. His teams haven't been very successful.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2011, 10:56 PM
Kirk Ferentz makes Gary Pinkel looks like he has an imagination when it comes to play calling. No thanks.

Did you read the part about "super staff." Ferentz is a CEO type coach and dicates to his coordinators. If you build a super staff, it would probably work for him in the NFL.

AustinChief
12-19-2011, 10:56 PM
Head coaches put in long hours, longer hours than anyone, coordinators included. A 65 year old guy who already is not in good health is absolutely going to be a concern given the stress and time requirements of the job.

Coordinator =/= Head Coach. Fans should know that, look at the guy who just got shitcanned.

My god, you act like 65 year olds need to be put to sleep... 65 is NOTHING in terms of age these days. If Romeo's health really is an issue now then I can see a valid point there. I'm not privy to that information so I won't speculate.

I'd love to see us go with a youngish college coach but I am not going to pretend I KNOW that Romeo is a bad choice when NO ONE knows that...

GoChiefs is welcome to his opinion... but that's all it is...and offering it up as FACT is just fucking annoying... and generally a sign of insecurity and immaturity. Par for the course I guess.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 10:57 PM
My god, you act like 65 year olds need to be put to sleep... 65 is NOTHING in terms of age these days.

True. This explains the great myriads of senior citizens heading NFL teams these days.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 10:58 PM
Did you read the part about "super staff." Ferentz is a CEO type coach and dicates to his coordinators. If you build a super staff, it would probably work for him in the NFL.

We had a super staff last year it didn't work. I just don't see how Ferentz would come to the NFL and answer to someone else when the guy is a celeb in Iowa.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 11:02 PM
The big concern I have Chuzinski is he has only coached in the playoffs twice and both times as a tight ends coach. His teams haven't been very successful.

He did a good job at Miami as the OC and coached Franks, Shockey, and Winslow made them pretty good players. Antonio Gates as well. He did a good job in Cleveland as the OC, I believe he helped coordinate San Diegos passing game, and has helped turn around the Panthers offense with a rookie QB. I can't think of a more deserving candidate to be honest.

ChiefsCountry
12-19-2011, 11:03 PM
We had a super staff last year it didn't work. I just don't see how Ferentz would come to the NFL and answer to someone else when the guy is a celeb in Iowa.

It didn't work because Haley and Weis were ego maniacs. Ferentz is more along the lines of Vermeil type. He would dictate to the staff. I think he would have worked great with last year's staff for sure.

The Bad Guy
12-19-2011, 11:06 PM
He did a good job at Miami as the OC and coached Franks, Shockey, and Winslow made them pretty good players. Antonio Gates as well. He did a good job in Cleveland as the OC, I believe he helped coordinate San Diegos passing game, and has helped turn around the Panthers offense with a rookie QB. I can't think of a more deserving candidate to be honest.

A whole lot of truth in this post.

If we were going the inexperienced coordinator route, he'd be my guy.

I don't think we are though.

Brock
12-19-2011, 11:08 PM
I agree that 64 is old for a head coach in the NFL, but that's really only if you look at the number by itself and not the man. Romeo seems like a pretty sharp guy and he's probably in a lot better health than somebody like Charlie Weis.

Also, the long hours that these guys work aren't really work in the conventional sense. This job isn't exactly rocket science, it's just thinking about ways to improve the team and its performance. I'm not necessarily sold on Crennel, but his age isn't a real compelling argument against.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 11:11 PM
A whole lot of truth in this post.

If we were going the inexperienced coordinator route, he'd be my guy.

I don't think we are though.

I don't think so either. If I had to guess I'd say we're keeping Crennel though his comments the other day about how he'd have to be able to make some of the decisions were interesting.

AustinChief
12-19-2011, 11:14 PM
True. This explains the great myriads of senior citizens heading NFL teams these days.

OMG!! YOU ARE RIGHT! And there is no team with a coach who has a first name starting with the letter D! You know why? Cuz Dans and Dons and Dirks make BAD COACHES! It most be so.. cuz that is what my pee-brained failed logic tells me!

Jesus, you can't possible be this stupid?

And you do realize there ARE some coaches like Tom Coughlin who is older? Oh and that being a head coach in COLLEGE can be just as challenging and yet who was the best coach in the game this year??? Yup a 72 year old.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 11:15 PM
And you do realize there ARE some coaches like Tom Coughlin who is older?

Coughlin and "interim" Romeo.

That's it.

Clearly we should follow this developing trend.

lewdog
12-19-2011, 11:18 PM
Cut Romeo off of the fried chicken and grape soda. Then get his ass on a treadmill! Problem solved.

The Bad Guy
12-19-2011, 11:18 PM
I don't think so either. If I had to guess I'd say we're keeping Crennel though his comments the other day about how he'd have to be able to make some of the decisions were interesting.

Missed that. What did he say?

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 11:19 PM
Cut Romeo off of the fried chicken and grape soda. Then get his ass on a treadmill! Problem solved.

Is this how you travel through time? A treadmill sans fried chicken and grape soda?

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 11:20 PM
who was the best coach in the game this year??? Yup a 72 year old.

Subjective. :) But the rest of your post was nice. You could've gotten away with "best coach in the big 12"

lewdog
12-19-2011, 11:21 PM
Is this how you travel through time? A treadmill sans fried chicken and grape soda?

I bet if we got the black bear to run backwards, it could be possible.

AustinChief
12-19-2011, 11:21 PM
Coughlin and "interim" Romeo.

That's it.

Clearly we should follow this developing trend.

So your entire argument is that due to the fact that he has lived 64 years he isn't qualified to coach the Chiefs? You base this on "trends" in the NFL...

then answer my question.. why are there no coaches with names that start with a D? THAT TREND MUST MEAN SOMETHING RIGHT????

I'm gonna try to force you to USE your brain for once... please explain why one "trend" is more meaningful then the other?

Have you heard an NFL exec voice an opinion that 64 years old is the cutoff for an effective coach? Or is this just another thing you pulled out of your ass?

(just to be clear, I'm not sold on Romeo yet but Clayton is an idiot, so I going to bury his idiotic ramblings in this thread)

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 11:23 PM
Missed that. What did he say?

It was his first press conference I think. He was asked if he would comeback as a DC he said maybe it would depend on what the HC wants. He then was asked if he wanted to be head coach and he said yes but wanted to be able to pick his guys.

AustinChief
12-19-2011, 11:23 PM
Subjective. :) But the rest of your post was nice. You could've gotten away with "best coach in the big 12"

It still illustrates my point... the idea that 64 is too old is ludicrous.

dirk digler
12-19-2011, 11:25 PM
I agree that 64 is old for a head coach in the NFL, but that's really only if you look at the number by itself and not the man. Romeo seems like a pretty sharp guy and he's probably in a lot better health than somebody like Charlie Weis.

Also, the long hours that these guys work aren't really work in the conventional sense. This job isn't exactly rocket science, it's just thinking about ways to improve the team and its performance. I'm not necessarily sold on Crennel, but his age isn't a real compelling argument against.

I agree. And maybe I am wrong but I always thought the coordinators put in longer hours than the head coach.

The Bad Guy
12-19-2011, 11:26 PM
It was his first press conference I think. He was asked if he would comeback as a DC he said maybe it would depend on what the HC wants. He then was asked if he wanted to be head coach and he said yes but wanted to be able to pick his guys.


Makes sense. I think he ends up being the guy with McDaniels as the OC.

I honestly have no opinion about the HC until Cassel is gone. If he's here, I don't care who we get at HC. It's an epic failure.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 11:27 PM
I'm surprised this had to be explained to anyone.

I'm surprised you just kept saying "he's old, he's old, he's old" without throwing out a logical argument. That's a logical argument. I don't think its a legal argument but I understand THAT concern.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 11:27 PM
It still illustrates my point... the idea that 64 is too old is ludicrous.

I agree. He's just pulling shit out of his ass. I would LOVE for somebody to do some research and break down overall records of coaches based on ages, categorizing them by 30-34, 35-39, 40-44, and so on. How interesting would that be?

And MAYBE if it came out that guys in the 60-70 range have bad records he could use that as an argument. But at this point he's baseless.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 11:27 PM
So your entire argument is that due to the fact that he has lived 64 years he isn't qualified to coach the Chiefs? You base this on "trends" in the NFL...



No. My argument also takes into consideration that:

1. Interim head coaches don't go on to win SBs.

2. I don't believe Romeo is going to go get a QB.

3. His age guarantees he will be gone in a few years.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 11:29 PM
But at this point he's baseless.

24 of 27 Super Bowl winners were under the age of 60.

Baseless?

Hardly.

Brock
12-19-2011, 11:29 PM
No. My argument also takes into consideration that:

1. Interim head coaches don't go on to win SBs.

2. I don't believe Romeo is going to go get a QB.

3. His age guarantees he will be gone in a few years.

1. Jeff Fisher sure didn't.

2. Romeo isn't going to decide whether the Chiefs go get a QB. Neither would Jeff Fisher.

3. Poor performance will get a younger guy fired just as quickly.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 11:30 PM
No. My argument also takes into consideration that:

1. Interim head coaches don't go on to win SBs.

2. I don't believe Romeo is going to go get a QB.

3. His age guarantees he will be gone in a few years.

So basically, he's too old, and you've never seen an interim HC win a SB.

Yep, that settles it.

Brock
12-19-2011, 11:30 PM
24 of 27 Super Bowl winners were under the age of 60.

Baseless?

Hardly.

Most NFL coaches have been under the age of 60. AN AMAZING COINCIDENCE? OR IS IT MORE?

Phobia
12-19-2011, 11:30 PM
Coughlin and "interim" Romeo.

That's it.

Clearly we should follow this developing trend.

Your argument makes just as much sense as somebody demanding we run out and hire a 35 year old head coach simply because the Steelers won a ring when they did it.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 11:31 PM
24 of 27 Super Bowl winners were under the age of 60.

Baseless?

Hardly.

Like I've said. That doesn't take into account how many coaches during those seasons were in the 60+ range. There were more coaches in the 40-59 range than 60+ range, therefore, that number is skewed. NARROW MINDED FUCK.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 11:32 PM
24 of 27 Super Bowl winners were under the age of 60.

Baseless?

Hardly.

You're bad, just very bad at analysis. Ask rainman to tell you why your 24 of 27 is bad data.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 11:33 PM
Your argument makes just as much sense as somebody demanding we run out and hire a 35 year old head coach simply because the Steelers won a ring when they did it.

Terrible comparison. I'm examining 50 years of NFL history and the current state of head coaching in the NFL.

Someone making your argument is examining one team and one head coach.

bricks
12-19-2011, 11:33 PM
Jack McKeon coached the Marlins in his 70s, Connie Mack coached up to 87...Dick Lebeau is 72 and is still coaching...Romeo can do it... There is hope.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 11:35 PM
Jack McKeon coached the Marlins in his 70s, Connie Mack coached up to 87...Dick Lebeau is 72 and is still coaching...Romeo can do it... There is hope.

Will Romeo have us playing small ball or swinging for the fences?

Brock
12-19-2011, 11:35 PM
Most Super Bowl winners were white. I'll let you make that correlation for yourself, Clay.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 11:35 PM
Terrible comparison. I'm examining 50 years of NFL history and the current state of head coaching in the NFL.

Someone making your argument is examining one team and one head coach.

But, nobody in 50 years had won a SuperBowl with a 35 year old head coach before, moron. It's an IDENTICAL argument except that there's a whole lot more reason to not hire a 35 year old head coach than there is not to hire a 64 year old.

Phobia
12-19-2011, 11:36 PM
Most Super Bowl winners were white. I'll let you make that correlation for yourself, Clay.

He's not going to be able to process that, Brock.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 11:39 PM
Come to think of it, I don't remember ever seeing a bald head coach win a Super Bowl. We MUST hire a hairy mother ****er. Oh, nevermind, Tony Dungy was bald. But he was black. Most head coaches who've won are white. We need a white, hairy mother fucker.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 11:40 PM
But, nobody in 50 years had won a SuperBowl with a 35 year old head coach before, moron. It's an IDENTICAL argument

No it's not. Because a 35-year old head coach is going to last a lot longer than four or five years and will have more of a chance to win a SB.

I can also find several head coaches who were hired in their 30s (Don Shula or John Madden for instance) and won SBs.

KCrockaholic
12-19-2011, 11:41 PM
If I get some extra time this week I'm seriously gonna break down this data like I talked about in my other post. And I will go back over the course of 30 years.

lewdog
12-19-2011, 11:42 PM
If I get some extra time this week I'm seriously gonna break down this data like I talked about in my other post. And I will go back over the course of 30 years.

If you guys like stats so much you should check out baseball. A statistical game at its finest.

AustinChief
12-19-2011, 11:44 PM
No. My argument also takes into consideration that:

1. Interim head coaches don't go on to win SBs.

2. I don't believe Romeo is going to go get a QB.

3. His age guarantees he will be gone in a few years.

and more stupidity....

1.OMG! THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A COACH WHO HAS A FIRST NAME STARTING WITH THE LETTER R! That means that Romeos and Rons can't win superbowls RIGHT? You fucking moron.

2. that's really more of a Pioli thing but whatever. he has already shown that he is willing to play different guys when he took an anyone but Palko stance. I don't see ANY basis for you to think this. You do know he was head coach when Cleveland drafted Brady Quinn in the first round....

3. Why? yes he will definitely be gone in 6-8 years... just like ANY coach probably would.

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 11:45 PM
In six to eight years? You really think Romeo Crennel is going to coach into his 70s?

mikey23545
12-19-2011, 11:45 PM
Is this how you travel through time? A treadmill sans fried chicken and grape soda?


Let's make a deal: We'll get Romeo to travel back in time so he's healthier if you'll travel ahead in time till you have even a little fucking intelligence.

Assuming your Mom won't rent the basement out while you're flying past the chronons.

AustinChief
12-19-2011, 11:52 PM
In six to eight years? You really think Romeo Crennel is going to coach into his 70s?

I think that is the upper limit... yes, if he is successful and having fun, I see ZERO reason he wouldn't.

Let's get back to "interim" head coaches for a sec... what about Ray Malavasi, Raymond Berry, Jeff Fisher and Marv Levy... all where Interim Head Coaches that at one point took that team to the superbowl... but they don't count because SOMEHOW the interim title cursed them to never be able to win the superbowl right?

Phobia
12-19-2011, 11:52 PM
No it's not. Because a 35-year old head coach is going to last a lot longer than four or five years and will have more of a chance to win a SB.

I can also find several head coaches who were hired in their 30s (Don Shula or John Madden for instance) and won SBs.

Sure you can, but you can't find somebody who was hired at 35 on the nose who went on to win a Superbowl because that never happened prior to Tomlin, you donkey. If I can't introduce a 62 year old Vermeil as a counter to your argument about old coaches then you can't introduce a 37 year old Don Shula. Can you phathom how stupid this age argument is? Honestly? Are you capable of that level of cognitive reasoning?

Count Alex's Losses
12-19-2011, 11:54 PM
If I can't introduce a 62 year old Vermeil as a counter to your argument about old coaches then you can't introduce a 37 year old Don Shula.

That's not a counter to my argument, though.

I'm only arguing that coaches in their 60s infrequently win Super Bowls (just 3 of 27). I never specifically mentioned the age of 64.

Vermeil is actually part of MY argument.

AustinChief
12-19-2011, 11:56 PM
Are you going to address my concern that coaches whose names start with R have NEVER won a superbowl????

So we can't hire a coach named Romeo or Ray or Ron, right?

Please explain how my argument significantly differs from yours.

I'd love to see this.

Phobia
12-20-2011, 12:00 AM
That's not a counter to my argument, though.

I'm only arguing that coaches in their 60s infrequently win Super Bowls (just 3 of 27). I never specifically mentioned the age of 64.

Vermeil is actually part of MY argument.

And FYI, Dick was younger than Romeo when he won it. (http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=8218484&postcount=14)

You specifically mentioned the age of 64 in your opening post. Now you're drowning in your own crap.

AustinChief
12-20-2011, 12:00 AM
and more stupidity....

1.OMG! THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A COACH WHO HAS A FIRST NAME STARTING WITH THE LETTER R! That means that Romeos and Rons can't win superbowls RIGHT? You fucking moron.

2. that's really more of a Pioli thing but whatever. he has already shown that he is willing to play different guys when he took an anyone but Palko stance. I don't see ANY basis for you to think this. You do know he was head coach when Cleveland drafted Brady Quinn in the first round....

3. Why? yes he will definitely be gone in 6-8 years... just like ANY coach probably would.

You haven't addressed points 1 and 2 yet...

You're pretty much getting bitch slapped by logic in this thread.. you know that right?

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 12:06 AM
My god, you act like 65 year olds need to be put to sleep... 65 is NOTHING in terms of age these days. If Romeo's health really is an issue now then I can see a valid point there. I'm not privy to that information so I won't speculate.

I'd love to see us go with a youngish college coach but I am not going to pretend I KNOW that Romeo is a bad choice when NO ONE knows that...

GoChiefs is welcome to his opinion... but that's all it is...and offering it up as FACT is just fucking annoying... and generally a sign of insecurity and immaturity. Par for the course I guess.

Thanks for ventriloquizing me. There are exceptions to every rule, but there is a reason why most NFL coaches are done by their early 60s. It's an incredibly stressful job, and, sorry to disappoint, but as people age longer hours, little sleep, and high stress environments are more difficult to cope with. It's a natural part of the aging process. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with it, but acting like aging doesn't take a toll on coaches is no different than thinking it doesn't take a toll on athletes, it just manifests itself through a different mechanism.

Phobia
12-20-2011, 12:06 AM
You haven't addressed points 1 and 2 yet...

You're pretty much getting bitch slapped by logic in this thread.. you know that right?

This thread makes me want to spend a couple hours in D.C. arguing with Denize.

Phobia
12-20-2011, 12:13 AM
Thanks for ventriloquizing me. There are exceptions to every rule, but there is a reason why most NFL coaches are done by their early 60s. It's an incredibly stressful job, and, sorry to disappoint, but as people age longer hours, little sleep, and high stress environments are more difficult to cope with. It's a natural part of the aging process. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with it, but acting like aging doesn't take a toll on coaches is no different than thinking it doesn't take a toll on athletes, it just manifests itself through a different mechanism.
I agree with your stance on people of age. But let's not act like NFL head coaches are out there digging ditches for 20 hours a day. They're sitting in a $10,000 chair watching film and meeting with assistants. They have an entire staff at their disposal and delegate. I agree, it is a moderate factor in the hiring process that should be discussed and a contingency plan drawn up in advance should they opt to hire RC. But it's NOT the overwhelming reason to outright dismiss his candidacy as Clay would have us believe.

AustinChief
12-20-2011, 12:14 AM
Thanks for ventriloquizing me. There are exceptions to every rule, but there is a reason why most NFL coaches are done by their early 60s. It's an incredibly stressful job, and, sorry to disappoint, but as people age longer hours, little sleep, and high stress environments are more difficult to cope with. It's a natural part of the aging process. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with it, but acting like aging doesn't take a toll on coaches is no different than thinking it doesn't take a toll on athletes, it just manifests itself through a different mechanism.

I agree that age could be a factor but I also know there is a WIDE degree of variance between how individuals age and handle stress, long hours etc... If he were 70 I would agree with you but at 64 I just don't put his age at or even NEAR the top of my list of concerns.

And GoChiefs argument that he can't WIN because of his age is just moronic.

AustinChief
12-20-2011, 12:15 AM
I agree with your stance on people of age. But let's not act like NFL head coaches are out there digging ditches for 20 hours a day. They're sitting in a $10,000 chair watching film and meeting with assistants. They have an entire staff at their disposal and delegate. I agree, it is a moderate factor in the hiring process that should be discussed and a contingency plan drawn up in advance should they opt to hire RC. But it's NOT the overwhelming reason to outright dismiss his candidacy as Clay would have us believe.
ok, yeah what Phil said.. I like his post better, I'm going with this one...

:D

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-20-2011, 12:18 AM
I agree with your stance on people of age. But let's not act like NFL head coaches are out there digging ditches for 20 hours a day. They're sitting in a $10,000 chair watching film and meeting with assistants. They have an entire staff at their disposal and delegate. I agree, it is a moderate factor in the hiring process that should be discussed and a contingency plan drawn up in advance should they opt to hire RC. But it's NOT the overwhelming reason to outright dismiss his candidacy as Clay would have us believe.

I agree that age could be a factor but I also know there is a WIDE degree of variance between how individuals age and handle stress, long hours etc... If he were 70 I would agree with you but at 64 I just don't put his age at or even NEAR the top of my list of concerns.

And GoChiefs argument that he can't WIN because of his age is just moronic.

I agree with both of these. It's a complex factor that has to be judged on an individual basis, but given what we do know about aging in general, at the very least, it should be taken into consideration.

With regard to the strain of the work, no it's by no means manual labor, but there is a great deal of stress as a function of the job, and much of that is internal, fear of failure and overlooking the smallest detail. That's why we hear so many stories of coaches working 18+ hour days, and also why there are so many high profile stories of coaches with family problems, Belichick, Reid, Dungy, et. al.

splatbass
12-20-2011, 12:18 AM
24 of 27 is very solid footing.

The odds are astronomically against Romeo.

What has happened in the past has no bearing on what will happen in this situation. This is not the same team, the same players or the same coach. As you said, apples and oranges.

Chiefspants
12-20-2011, 12:21 AM
Out of all of the coaches who have ever been in the NFL, I wonder how many of them have led their team to a Super Bowl championship.

Now, I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm guessing that the ratio's percentage would be quite similar to the 3/27 that's been showcased throughout the thread.

splatbass
12-20-2011, 12:21 AM
I actually love old people. They are infinitely more interesting than young people, and less douchey.

Just don't see the value in Romeo as HC.

64 isn't old these days. I guess you are just too young to understand that.

Chocolate Hog
12-20-2011, 12:24 AM
Age is part of the factor but I'd also be interested in hearing why Crennel didn't work in Cleveland?

ChiefsCountry
12-20-2011, 12:33 AM
Age is part of the factor but I'd also be interested in hearing why Crennel didn't work in Cleveland?

I think Anderson and Quinn got hurt if my memory is right and it all went down hill from then.

Raiderhader
12-20-2011, 01:21 AM
This thread makes me want to spend a couple hours in D.C. arguing with Denize.


I've just read the whole and, uh, NO!

I'll take this troll over that one any day.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 01:31 AM
And FYI, Dick was younger than Romeo when he won it. (http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=8218484&postcount=14)

You specifically mentioned the age of 64 in your opening post. Now you're drowning in your own crap.

Do you really think I intended to mount an argument based solely on Romeo's age this season?

That's ridiculous. No one thinks Romeo is winning it this year.

The entire line of reasoning is coaches in their 60s...hence why I brought up 24 of 27.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 01:31 AM
64 isn't old these days. I guess you are just too young to understand that.

It's ancient for an NFL head coach. You are too ignorant to understand that.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 01:32 AM
Age is part of the factor but I'd also be interested in hearing why Crennel didn't work in Cleveland?

Player's coach, lack of discipline, inmates running the asylum.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 01:33 AM
What has happened in the past has no bearing on what will happen in this situation.

We should stick with Cassel, then. I'm convinced. LMAO

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 01:35 AM
Are you going to address my concern that coaches whose names start with R have NEVER won a superbowl????

So we can't hire a coach named Romeo or Ray or Ron, right?

Please explain how my argument significantly differs from yours.

I'd love to see this.

Because a person's name has no bearing on how he functions at his job.

AustinChief
12-20-2011, 01:53 AM
Because a person's name has no bearing on how he functions at his job.

gotcha.. so then you can prove that his name has less bearing on his ability to be a winning coach then his age? what? no?

or, what about this .. no one from St. Joe has ever coached a winning SB team.. therefore someone born in St Joe must not be capable of doing it, that is EXACTLY what your "logic" is attempting to say...

What magically happens when a person turns 64 that makes them a bad coach? Do they get dumber? Do they all start to forget what it takes to win? Do they suddenly lose their work ethic?

Fact is, Romeo was doing a damn fine job as our DC and their is NO reason to believe that suddenly his age will be a factor.

You're just being an idiotic troll. I just don't understand how someone with your obvious lack of critical thinking skills can survive on a day to day basis in the world. You really are a fucking moron.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 01:56 AM
What magically happens when a person turns 64 that makes them a bad coach? Do they get dumber? Do they all start to forget what it takes to win? Do they suddenly lose their work ethic?


I don't know. All I know is that no coach over the age of 63 has ever won a Super Bowl.

Getting old sucks.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 02:00 AM
It would seem, judging by the insults (which I have risen above and ignored), some of you are less than happy to learn that statistically speaking, Romeo is a waste of our time.

I apologize for taking the shine off our win, but just remember that Gunther Cunningham once knocked off the world champions, too.

AustinChief
12-20-2011, 02:11 AM
I don't know. All I know is that no coach over the age of 63 has ever won a Super Bowl.

Getting old sucks.

And no coach with a name starting with an R and no coach from St Joe and no coach with a mohawk and no coach who was fluent in Mandarin and no coach who is a Japanese-American... and no coach with 7 toes ...

None of those factors have any bearing on the ability of a coach... just like age has no bearing when you are talking about a 64 year old.

I think you get the point... or maybe you don't. Seriously, your logic skills are abysmal.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 02:12 AM
Age definitely has a bearing. How can anyone say otherwise? There is a reason there are so few head coaches who last into their 60s, so few that are even hired at that age.

Raiderhader
12-20-2011, 02:22 AM
Age definitely has a bearing. How can anyone say otherwise? There is a reason there are so few head coaches who last into their 60s, so few that are even hired at that age.

Maybe most lose their drive at a certain age. Romeo obviously hasn't.

FAX
12-20-2011, 03:10 AM
Maybe most lose their drive at a certain age. Romeo obviously hasn't.

Romeo is round.

Round guys can't lose their edge because they never had one to begin with.

Also, the main problem with round guys is that they are easy going. It's Raider Week, though and the last damn thing we need around here is an easy going round guy.

FAX

Rausch
12-20-2011, 03:30 AM
I don't know. All I know is that no coach over the age of 63 has ever won a Super Bowl.

Getting old sucks.

How old was DV in St. Louis? He had to be pretty close.

And Marv Levy lost 4 when he looked about 80. Again, don't know his exact age but I'd settle for 4 losing SB trips right about now...

Phobia
12-20-2011, 03:40 AM
It would seem, judging by the insults (which I have risen above and ignored),

Until just now.

You're thick. You find an agenda and stick with it. Half a dozen people have shown you why your contention is wrong but you have to stick with the agenda. That's donkey behavior. It really is. You're not thinking about this logically. I don't know why you're not. The only things that are know is that 3 coaches over the age of 60 have won a Super Bowl out of 30 total winners since 1967. Somehow you've concluded that means Romeo Crennel should be disqualified. I'm not even clamouring for Crennel to coach the Chiefs in 2012 based on one game. But I do reject your notion for disqualification.

Phobia
12-20-2011, 03:46 AM
How old was DV in St. Louis? He had to be pretty close.

And Marv Levy lost 4 when he looked about 80. Again, don't know his exact age but I'd settle for 4 losing SB trips right about now...

He was 62. Marv Levy was hired by the Bills when he was 61 and that was in 86. He took the Bills to 4 straight SuperBowls starting in 90 so he would have been 69 in the last SB. He continued coaching the Bills until he was 73. He won the AFC East 6 out of his 12 years at Buffalo and finished 2nd and earned wildcard playoff berths 2 other years.

"The age factor means nothing to me. I'm old enough to know my limitations and I'm young enough to exceed them." - Marv Levy.

NJChiefsFan
12-20-2011, 03:51 AM
Until just now.

You're thick. You find an agenda and stick with it. Half a dozen people have shown you why your contention is wrong but you have to stick with the agenda. That's donkey behavior. It really is. You're not thinking about this logically. I don't know why you're not. The only things that are know is that 3 coaches over the age of 60 have won a Super Bowl out of 30 total winners since 1967. Somehow you've concluded that means Romeo Crennel should be disqualified. I'm not even clamouring for Crennel to coach the Chiefs in 2012 based on one game. But I do reject your notion for disqualification.

Well said. Not that I should get on people for not giving in during an arguement.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 03:57 AM
The only things that are know is that 3 coaches over the age of 60 have won a Super Bowl out of 30 total winners since 1967.

Terrible odds. Enough for me to pass on Romeo.

Chiefspants
12-20-2011, 04:02 AM
Terrible odds. Enough for me to pass on Romeo.

So, 30 coaches have won a superbowl in NFL history out of how many? What are the odds there, Clay?

Phobia
12-20-2011, 04:04 AM
Well said. Not that I should get on people for not giving in during an arguement.

I don't have a problem with somebody sticking to their guns but when their guns are on the ocean floor, then maybe its time to let those guns sink alone. I'm about 50% convinced he's trolling me though. I don't think he's brilliant but there's no way he's this dense.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 04:07 AM
FYI, there's no agenda. I'm legitimately terrified of Romeo as our next head coach. Worst case scenario, he actually wins a few games with the talent we have in place, McDaniels is the OC, Romeo retires in 3-4 years and McDaniels becomes the new HC.

Scares the shit out of me.

johnny961
12-20-2011, 04:08 AM
Maybe most lose their drive at a certain age. Romeo obviously hasn't.

This. Most probably lose any drive to coach as they get older. But as long as a candidate is capable of physically doing the job and has the drive I really don't see where age makes a hell of alot of difference.

Phobia
12-20-2011, 04:08 AM
So, 30 coaches have won a superbowl in NFL history out of how many? What are the odds there, Clay?

Roughly... you have 44 SuperBowls. 33 superbowl winners so 11 winners are multiples like Noll, Landry, Walsh, and BB. Guessing there are a comparable number of multiple losers like Levy. So figure 66-70 total SuperBowl coaches.

Chiefspants
12-20-2011, 04:12 AM
Roughly... you have 44 SuperBowls. 33 superbowl winners so 11 winners are multiples like Noll, Landry, Walsh, and BB. Guessing there are a comparable number of multiple losers like Levy. So figure 66-70 total SuperBowl coaches.

So, take that 33 out of the 448 head coaches who have ever coached in the nfl, and you come out with a worse percentage than Clay's 3/27 ratio.

Phobia
12-20-2011, 04:14 AM
FYI, there's no agenda. I'm legitimately terrified of Romeo as our next head coach. Worst case scenario, he actually wins a few games with the talent we have in place, McDaniels is the OC, Romeo retires in 3-4 years and McDaniels becomes the new HC.

Scares the shit out of me.

I don't think you've come to realize that the NFL is about talent, execution, and a whole lot of luck. We could bring Belechick to KC tomorrow and not win a SuperBowl. Sometimes good coaches fail. Sometimes bad coaches get very lucky. It doesn't have jack to do with age, hair-style, color, pedigree, or even coaching tree.

Now, I'm not downplaying the role of head coach because we all know about having morons wearing that hat. But the head coach isn't going to be the sole catalyst for taking the Chiefs to the promised land.

AustinChief
12-20-2011, 04:15 AM
Roughly... you have 44 SuperBowls. 33 superbowl winners so 11 winners are multiples like Noll, Landry, Walsh, and BB. Guessing there are a comparable number of multiple losers like Levy. So figure 66-70 total SuperBowl coaches.

Close.. 28 coaches have won a superbowl, an additional 20 have gone but never won.

I may be off by 1 or 2 on the 20 figure, but it's close.

Phobia
12-20-2011, 04:15 AM
So, take that 33 out of the 448 head coaches who have ever coached in the nfl, and you come out with a worse percentage than Clay's 3/27 ratio.

Preaching the choir. He's not interested in logic here.

Count Alex's Losses
12-20-2011, 04:18 AM
I don't think you've come to realize that the NFL is about talent, execution, and a whole lot of luck.

It would seem coaches over 63 aren't lucky.