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View Full Version : Football Shockey rips Texans for lack of national anthem etiquette


Deberg_1990
12-19-2011, 10:45 AM
http://www.chron.com/sports/article/Shockey-rips-Texans-for-anthem-etiquette-2410816.php



HOUSTON (AP) — Carolina Panthers tight end Jeremy Shockey criticized members of the Houston Texans for not putting their hands over their hearts during the national anthem.

Shockey says he saw "about 10 players" who didn't do the traditional gesture when the anthem is played, and he told some of them how he felt during Carolina's 28-13 victory.

"I was pretty upset in the way they weren't showing respect to America during the national anthem," Shockey said. "This is America and you should at least give respect to America."

Shockey's statements didn't make their way back to the Texans' locker room before it closed, and the team had no comment. Shockey's rant came in response to a reporter's question about the Texans' defense.

"This is America and this is just a game and they should not only be very proud of this country, but very gifted to be living here," Shockey said. "Maybe they just forgot to do it or something, but I don't see how you could forget to do that."

Shockey sports a red, white and blue tattoo on his right biceps portraying a bald eagle draped in an American flag. He caught a 9-yard touchdown pass from Cam Newton in Sunday's game, then pointed at linebacker DeMeco Ryans and appeared to yell at him and cornerback Jason Allen.

Bambi
12-19-2011, 10:46 AM
I don't put my hand over my heart during the anthem. Never have, never will.

I take off my hat and stand but that's it.

And I'm awesome so Shockey is obviously wrong.

Dicky McElephant
12-19-2011, 10:46 AM
This is 'Merica.

gblowfish
12-19-2011, 10:50 AM
I don't put my hand over my heart during the anthem. Never have, never will.

I take off my hat and stand but that's it.

And I'm awesome so Shockey is obviously wrong.

We're going to send a bunch of New Jersey Chiefs fans to your house to beat you up.

KCUnited
12-19-2011, 10:50 AM
Stanzi to Shockey over the middle, the apple pie formation.

patteeu
12-19-2011, 10:53 AM
I don't put my hand over my heart during the anthem. Never have, never will.

I take off my hat and stand but that's it.

And I'm awesome so Shockey is obviously wrong.

Why?

MIAdragon
12-19-2011, 10:55 AM
Why?

I'm sure he has some super awesome reason.

J Diddy
12-19-2011, 10:56 AM
"This is America so do what I think you should be doing, you suma bitch."

Not that I disagree with him, however, the great thing about America is freedom. I'm thinking they had the freedom to not stand in the traditional pose.

Saulbadguy
12-19-2011, 10:57 AM
What a dumbass.

Sofa King
12-19-2011, 10:57 AM
I'm sure he has some super awesome reason.

Lazy or a Communist.

MoreLemonPledge
12-19-2011, 11:03 AM
It's not just at the Texans' stadium.

hashtag: It's the home of the BRAVE

/flamesuit

Frazod
12-19-2011, 11:04 AM
I'm sure he has some super awesome reason.

Because he's a non-appreciative douche?

However, at least he claims to take his hat off. Seems like every time I attend a game less and less people bother to do even that. Fucking punks.

NewChief
12-19-2011, 11:04 AM
Shockey's flag tattoo offends me (not really, but there are some who would say that it's not appropriately respectful of the flag).

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 11:09 AM
Shockey's flag tattoo offends me (not really, but there are some who would say that it's not appropriately respectful of the flag).

According to the "official" rules, his tatoo is wholly inappropriate.

NewChief
12-19-2011, 11:12 AM
According to the "official" rules, his tatoo is wholly inappropriate.

Ironically, I'm doing a lesson on flag protocol with our cub scout den this evening, so I spent a bit this morning researching it online. I didn't actually find an official policy on tattoos, but the flag is not supposed to be on clothing.

patteeu
12-19-2011, 11:16 AM
Ironically, I'm doing a lesson on flag protocol with our cub scout den this evening, so I spent a bit this morning researching it online. I didn't actually find an official policy on tattoos, but the flag is not supposed to be on clothing.

Good point.

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/148888/148888,1214773402,1/stock-photo-flag-patch-on-iraq-war-soldier-uniform-14333026.jpg

58-4ever
12-19-2011, 11:16 AM
Two things about this:

1) The Players are representatives of their teams and if the team mandates this kind of thing, fine.

2) If you don't want to put your hand of your heart, I don't see a problem with that. Isn't that why America is so great, the whole "feedom" thing that we lose more of everyday?

PunkinDrublic
12-19-2011, 11:18 AM
Jeremy Shockey is still in the league?

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 11:21 AM
Ironically, I'm doing a lesson on flag protocol with our cub scout den this evening, so I spent a bit this morning researching it online. I didn't actually find an official policy on tattoos, but the flag is not supposed to be on clothing.

Some would probably argue against, but the flag is not to be worn as decoration or as part of a "costume" - a person's skin really isn't any different than a T-shirt in that sense.

It's ironic that displaying the flag in a horizontal fashion, the way they do with the massive flags at football games, is also contrary to the Flag code.

htismaqe
12-19-2011, 11:21 AM
Good point.

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/148888/148888,1214773402,1/stock-photo-flag-patch-on-iraq-war-soldier-uniform-14333026.jpg

The flag code specifically prohibits the use of flags on costumes or uniforms, EXCEPT those of police and fire officers and the military.

Saulbadguy
12-19-2011, 11:23 AM
I've found the more people care about symbolism, the more they are dumbasses.

NewChief
12-19-2011, 11:25 AM
Good point.

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/148888/148888,1214773402,1/stock-photo-flag-patch-on-iraq-war-soldier-uniform-14333026.jpg

That's a uniform, not a piece of clothing.

patteeu
12-19-2011, 11:34 AM
The flag code specifically prohibits the use of flags on costumes or uniforms, EXCEPT those of police and fire officers and the military.

That's a uniform, not a piece of clothing.

LOL. I was just poking fun at your broad description. Uniforms are clothing, but I knew what you meant.

gblowfish
12-19-2011, 11:41 AM
The Houston Texans did do something awesome for this Marine Widow on Sunday:
http://tinyurl.com/83awdy5

Demonpenz
12-19-2011, 11:43 AM
God hates Flags

Huffmeister
12-19-2011, 11:43 AM
That's a uniform, not a piece of clothing.

Take a look at what I'm wearing, people. You think anybody wants a roundhouse kick to the face while I'm wearing these bad boys?

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa366/Huffmeister77/napoleon-dynamite2.jpg

Okie_Apparition
12-19-2011, 11:48 AM
A lot of people died so we could have a choice
Shockey will drown in his own vomit some day

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 11:54 AM
I've found the more people care about symbolism, the more they are dumbasses.

The Houston Texans did do something awesome for this Marine Widow on Sunday:
http://tinyurl.com/83awdy5


:hmmm:


Symbolism is everywhere in many forms. And there is nothing wrong with it. I've found the less someone cares about anything the less I care if they exist. Or since MLK said it best, "A man who hasn't found something he is willing to die for is not fit to live".

Symbolism to the protocol and respect of our flag is nothing more than respect in this country, and all the men and women who have died defending it. I disagree whole heartily to the "totality of freedom" America has been turning into.

If you say you don't have to pay respect to the flag, like in this case, everyone jumps to their defense as having the freedom of speech to do it. However, Shockey's words of disagreement somehow isn't freedom of speech. I don't get it....

Saulbadguy
12-19-2011, 11:56 AM
:hmmm:


Symbolism is everywhere in many forms. And there is nothing wrong with it. I've found the less someone cares about anything the less I care if they exist. Or since MLK said it best, "A man who hasn't found something he is willing to die for is not fit to live".

Symbolism to the protocol and respect of our flag is nothing more than respect in this country, and all the men and women who have died defending it. I disagree whole heartily to the "totality of freedom" America has been turning into.

If you say you don't have to pay respect to the flag, like in this case, everyone jumps to their defense as having the freedom of speech to do it. However, Shockey's words of disagreement somehow isn't freedom of speech. I don't get it....

Yep. Dumbass confirmed.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 11:59 AM
Yep. Dumbass confirmed.

The first step in overcoming a problem is admitting you have a problem. Good luck on your recovery, Dumbass....

demonhero
12-19-2011, 12:15 PM
I know this guy takes of his hat and stands at attention. Somebody will get the hint in this thread eventually....

I'd list what I think about pro athletes in general, but you can just read about the Chicago Bears undercover bust for a hint.

gblowfish
12-19-2011, 12:21 PM
I always stand and remove my hat for the National Anthem. I am not a vet, but my dad was. He had a VFW honor guard for his funeral. Those honor guard guys were awesome. They had been in Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait and Iraq. It's all about respect. I have great respect for men and women who have served when called. My dad was drafted for Korea. He quit playing minor league baseball and went. My dad said he went because Harry Truman and the USA "invited him to go." So he did his duty with the 24th Infantry. That's just the way it was in 1950.

blaise
12-19-2011, 12:45 PM
Why?

"Because I think it's a hipster thing to do."

Bob Dole
12-19-2011, 12:48 PM
The flag code specifically prohibits the use of flags on costumes or uniforms, EXCEPT those of police and fire officers and the military.

Pretty sure it prohibits it being backwards on a uniform, too.

Stewie
12-19-2011, 12:50 PM
Concussions really are causing problems.

cosmo20002
12-19-2011, 01:00 PM
Never been sure why it is necessary to play the national anthem at sporting events in the first place. Because I'm at a sporting event with a bunch of other people it is necessary to convey our patriotism? Frankly, it seems a bit North Korean-ish. Why not at a concert, movie, or other type of public gathering?

I do stand and remove my hat though.

And, anyone who says "Home of the CHIEFS" surely isn't agreeing with strict rules about the anthem are they?

ILChief
12-19-2011, 01:03 PM
Apollo Creed disagrees

DJay23
12-19-2011, 01:19 PM
I teach in a public middle school. We listen to the National Anthem every morning. I put my right hand over my heart and left hand behind my back so that I'm not tempted to mess with papers, tap a desk, put it in my pocket. I tell my kids that I do this every day to honor people like my grandfathers, my dad, and 5 of my uncles who served. I think it's the least I can do and hopefully it shows kids a little something about respect.

frankotank
12-19-2011, 01:19 PM
I was at a high school volley ball game and a kid didn't take his hat off for the anthem. so this guy walks down the bleachers to where the kid was and takes his hat off and hands it to him and then stands beside him until the anthem was over. I asked him if it was his kid. nope. do you know him? he said nope and at 6'4" it his parents want to talk to me about it I should be easy to find. pretty funny.

many members of my family have fought for this country. my father is a 20 year vet. I have uncles from just about every branch. my first thought when I read this was...well it's not like they are burning the flag or anything. my father and I got into a fairly big argument over flag burning. I think it's henious for someone enjoying the freedom provided by this country and using it to burn a flag that represents that freedom. my father disagrees. he says hey, my brothers and I fought for freedom, and that includes the freedom to be a total fucking ASSHOLE. an interesting take on it from a vets point of view.

Cheater5
12-19-2011, 01:31 PM
Pretty sure it prohibits it being backwards on a uniform, too.

It's not backwards; proper customs/courtesies dictate that the flag be worn with the stars forward.

The Soldier's uniform is fine. Do some research.

From AR 670-1

"The full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is worn so that the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward."

gblowfish
12-19-2011, 01:34 PM
My first thought when I read this was...well it's not like they are burning the flag or anything. my father and I got into a fairly big argument over flag burning. I think it's henious for someone enjoying the freedom provided by this country and using it to burn a flag that represents that freedom. my father disagrees. he says hey, my brothers and I fought for freedom, and that includes the freedom to be a total fucking ASSHOLE. an interesting take on it from a vets point of view.

Freedom of speech includes freedom of offensive speech. That's why flag burning, or book burning, or the Phelps Klan with "Santa pillowbiter" signs during Christmas time, are allowed to happen in the USA. If you allow everyone to speak freely, you can judge the content of their speech and determine if they're fruitloops or not. My dad was the same way. He didn't like it, but understood that it comes with the territory when you defend freedom.

mikey23545
12-19-2011, 01:50 PM
I've found the more people care about symbolism, the more they are dumbasses.

Thank Goodness you learned long ago that symbolism has no place in literature, religion, philosophy or human history. You are indeed a wise and profound illuminati.

I bet your Che t-shirt waves proudly in the breeze...

frankotank
12-19-2011, 01:58 PM
Freedom of speech includes freedom of offensive speech. That's why flag burning, or book burning, or the Phelps Klan with "Santa pillowbiter" signs during Christmas time, are allowed to happen in the USA. If you allow everyone to speak freely, you can judge the content of their speech and determine if they're fruitloops or not. My dad was the same way. He didn't like it, but understood that it comes with the territory when you defend freedom.

yeah.....I reckon....I mean I guess dad is right, but it just pisses me off. I don't think I could control myself if I was ever in close proximity to a flag burner or those phelps losers. man...those phelps folks... just sick.
<blood pressure rising>

frankotank
12-19-2011, 02:04 PM
yeah.....I reckon....I mean I guess dad is right, but it just pisses me off. I don't think I could control myself if I was ever in close proximity to a flag burner or those phelps losers. man...those phelps folks... just sick.
<blood pressure rising>

I mean DAMN! can you IMAGINE burying your kid and those phelps bitches being there with their signs and shit? I'm surprised there haven't been deaths yet. sorry ass bitches hiding behind freedom of speech.

Micjones
12-19-2011, 02:06 PM
I'm not sure that people who opt not to stand during the national anthem are a 1:1 with the Phelps bunch. That's a stretch.

Dave Lane
12-19-2011, 02:09 PM
I think I'll add this thread to the growing number of things I don't give a shit about.

frankotank
12-19-2011, 02:16 PM
I'm not sure that people who opt not to stand during the national anthem are a 1:1 with the Phelps bunch. That's a stretch.

agreed. and certainly not what I said, although I did ramble off on a tangent. (those sorry BITCHES!)

Valiant
12-19-2011, 02:38 PM
This is 'Merica.

Thought it said "this is 'Mecca" when scrolling quickly.

My brain went. "Explains a lot"..

SuperChief
12-19-2011, 04:44 PM
I've never been one to put my hand over my heart during the National Anthem. As I see it, there's no real etiquette covering this, save for the standing and removing of the hat. I put my hand over my heart for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I don't really view it as being unpatriotic. I, myself, am very proud to be an American, as my grandfather served in the Army during WW2 and the Navy during Korea. I joined the Sons of the American Legion out of gratitude and respect of his and all others' service.

Ceej
12-19-2011, 04:49 PM
Que the Shockey pre-celebratory gif. LMAO

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 04:57 PM
Fuck the troops

Baconeater
12-19-2011, 05:35 PM
American rips Shockey for being a fucking douchebag.

-King-
12-19-2011, 06:39 PM
Texans linebacker DeMeco Ryans heard about Shockey’s complaint and raised an interesting question: If expressing patriotism during the national anthem is of paramount importance to Shockey, why was he focusing his attention on the Texans?

“If he’s so patriotic, why was he looking at our bench instead of the flag?” Ryans asked. “Where did he come up with the number 10? Was he counting?Why was he paying attention to us during the national anthem?”
Posted via Mobile Device

Micjones
12-19-2011, 06:50 PM
Standing during the national anthem makes you as patriotic as going to church makes you Christian.

And where on earth is this handbook that requires all American citizens to be patriotic?

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 06:50 PM
Fuck the troops


You have the freedom of speech to say that.
I have the freedom of speech to say;
Fuck you back.
neg.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 06:52 PM
One of the most overrated players in NFL history, and that overrating doesn't even come close to rivaling his stupidity.

Caseyguyrr
12-19-2011, 06:57 PM
One of the most overrated players in NFL history, and that overrating doesn't even come close to rivaling his stupidity.

the dude has 2 superbowl rings

SNR
12-19-2011, 06:58 PM
Hey, Saul and bi lay started the party without me! What are both of your addresses? I'll kick your asses!

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 06:58 PM
Standing during the national anthem makes you as patriotic as going to church makes you Christian.

And where on earth is this handbook that requires all American citizens to be patriotic?

I think the argument is more about it appearing disrespectful to some people. Talking in class and disrupting the teacher is also disrespectful, writing "clean me" on someone's dirty rear window is also disrespectful.

None of these are illegal or will get you a ticket, and there's no handbook that helps you out in knowing these type of things, maybe it was your parent's job to teach you this respect and common courtesy. Maybe as an adult, it's supposed to come to you like understanding poetry, in time.

Earthling
12-19-2011, 07:00 PM
I personally remove my hat and keep my hat over my heart area. But its a personal decision and as a Vet I take it with a grain of salt if anyone else does or doesn't. That being said I would take big issue with anyone, especially a stranger, taking it upon themselves to remove a hat off of one of my family members heads.

SNR
12-19-2011, 07:01 PM
I am pissed!!!!

Micjones
12-19-2011, 07:03 PM
I think the argument is more about it appearing disrespectful to some people. Talking in class and disrupting the teacher is also disrespectful, writing "clean me" on someone's dirty rear window is also disrespectful.

None of these are illegal or will get you a ticket, and there's no handbook that helps you out in knowing these type of things, maybe it was your parent's job to teach you this respect and common courtesy. Maybe as an adult, it's supposed to come to you like understanding poetry, in time.

Or perhaps there are differing opinions (which are equally valid) where it concerns the SSB, the observance of it, patriotism...and whether the former two are in any way connected with the latter.

Still haven't gotten an answer to why patriotism is an American obligation.

"Because" isn't quite as satisfying as it sounds.

SNR
12-19-2011, 07:05 PM
Or perhaps there are differing opinions (which are equally valid) where it concerns the SSB, the observance of it, patriotism...and whether the former two are in any way connected with the latter.

Ultimately, I still haven't gotten an answer to why patriotism is an American obligation.
Where do you live!!!

Caseyguyrr
12-19-2011, 07:07 PM
Where do you live!!!

SNR, I'm in

Micjones
12-19-2011, 07:07 PM
Where do you live!!!

So patriotism is a mere product of one's geography?
That seems rather...shallow.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-19-2011, 07:08 PM
One of the most overrated players in NFL history, and that overrating doesn't even come close to rivaling his stupidity.

I remember watching the first game he played and the announcers were sucking him off something fierce.

-King-
12-19-2011, 07:12 PM
Hey, Saul and bi lay started the party without me! What are both of your addresses? I'll kick your asses!

Can you please link me to the other thread you guys did this in? I had tears rolling down my face, I was laughing so hard.
Posted via Mobile Device

MahiMike
12-19-2011, 07:13 PM
I don't put my hand over my heart during the anthem. Never have, never will.

I take off my hat and stand but that's it.

And I'm awesome so Shockey is obviously wrong.

Commie!:#

MahiMike
12-19-2011, 07:13 PM
Good for Shockey.

SNR
12-19-2011, 07:14 PM
Can you please link me to the other thread you guys did this in? I had tears rolling down my face, I was laughing so hard.
Posted via Mobile Device
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=252219

I'm sending Da Face a PM right now to put this sucker in the Hall of Classics

SNR
12-19-2011, 07:18 PM
I remember watching the first game he played and the announcers were sucking him off something fierce.He was just being a good, loyal American serving his country by playing games

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 07:24 PM
I remember watching the first game he played and the announcers were sucking him off something fierce.

One of my friends told me before the 2003 season that Shockey was a better TE than Tony Gonzalez. That may have been the first time I ever told anyone to kill themselves.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 07:41 PM
Or perhaps there are differing opinions (which are equally valid) where it concerns the SSB, the observance of it, patriotism...and whether the former two are in any way connected with the latter.

Still haven't gotten an answer to why patriotism is an American obligation.

"Because" isn't quite as satisfying as it sounds.



Why does "because" not sound satisfying? You should be a good sibling, parent or child just "because" too. That's good enough for me.

I think being patriot became a big deal during the world wars, anyway - Hitler and ideas of world domination. Is it really so bad to believe in something that you'd risk your life for it? The American dream, etc is pretty corny but still true to an extent. How about freedoms we have here that do not exist in other countries?

Jive Ass
12-19-2011, 07:46 PM
"I was pretty upset in the way they weren't showing respect to America during the national anthem," Shockey said.

Oh.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-19-2011, 07:47 PM
Why does "because" not sound satisfying? You should be a good sibling, parent or child just "because" too. That's good enough for me.

I think being patriot became a big deal during the world wars, anyway - Hitler and ideas of world domination. Is it really so bad to believe in something that you'd risk your life for it? The American dream, etc is pretty corny but still true to an extent. How about freedoms we have here that do not exist in other countries?

Because isn't a satisfactory argument, that's why.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 07:53 PM
Because isn't a satisfactory argument, that's why.

why isn't it?

SNR
12-19-2011, 07:54 PM
why isn't it?
Because

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 07:54 PM
Because

hook line and sinker.....
LMAO

Backwards Masking
12-19-2011, 08:06 PM
"they should not only be very proud of this country, but very gifted to be living here," Shockey said. .

Is he saying they aren't gifted BECAUSE they live here, or is he saying they should prove themselves gifted BEFORE allowed to live here?"

I'm confused.

Either way that sounds pretty Unpatriotic. Shame on you Jeremy.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 08:06 PM
You have the freedom of speech to say that.
I have the freedom of speech to say;
**** you back.
neg.

Thanks 4 nothing. Idk who sucks more the troops or Jeremy Shockey.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 08:11 PM
Thanks 4 nothing. Idk who sucks more the troops or Jeremy Shockey.

that the best you got? I know you're trolling, but you suck at it...

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 08:22 PM
that the best you got? I know you're trolling, but you suck at it...

fuck you

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 08:31 PM
fuck you


You already said that. You retarded, boy?
Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son....

Pawnmower
12-19-2011, 08:32 PM
It is the pledge of allegiance that you put your hand over your heart, not the anthem.

SNR
12-19-2011, 08:33 PM
How about freedoms we have here that do not exist in other countries?There are several countries that have the exact same freedoms we do-- and in many cases they have MORE freedoms than we do

Pawnmower
12-19-2011, 08:33 PM
There are several countries that have the exact same freedoms we do-- and in many cases they have MORE freedoms than we do

List?

SNR
12-19-2011, 08:35 PM
List?I'll start with one.

Canada.

Micjones
12-19-2011, 08:36 PM
Why does "because" not sound satisfying? You should be a good sibling, parent or child just "because" too. That's good enough for me.

Patriotism, in my view, should be grounded by your alignment with the ideas that your country espouses. It should never merely be a product of living in said country.

Me thinks there's a significant difference between loving one's country and loving one's child.
Would you ever put your country BEFORE your child?

I think being patriot became a big deal during the world wars, anyway - Hitler and ideas of world domination. Is it really so bad to believe in something that you'd risk your life for it? The American dream, etc is pretty corny but still true to an extent. How about freedoms we have here that do not exist in other countries?

What have you to say about people who don't believe America represents the freedom that their patriotism is rooted in?

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 08:39 PM
I'll start with one.

Canada.

Canada has high taxes, shitty socialized healthcare, does not allow foreign workers and mandates that radio stations play at least 33% Canadian artist.

They tax the shit out of alcohol and tobacco.

While they have the same basic "freedoms" its way more socialist.

The other countries you listed (besides Belize because I don't know) have much higher taxes as well.

Deberg_1990
12-19-2011, 08:39 PM
There are several countries that have the exact same freedoms we do-- and in many cases they have MORE freedoms than we do

Your free to move to any of those countries anytime.

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 08:41 PM
Your free to move to any of those countries anytime.

Another great thing about America, you can leave any time you want. :D

chasedude
12-19-2011, 08:41 PM
It is the pledge of allegiance that you put your hand over your heart, not the anthem.


Finally someone got it right.

patteeu
12-19-2011, 08:48 PM
Civilians are supposed to put hand over heart for the anthem too.

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 08:53 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code
Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem



When reciting the Pledge of Allegiance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance), all present should stand at attention facing the flag with their right hand over their heart, with the exception of those in uniform who shall salute.
When the national anthem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner) is played or sung:



Designation: The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
Conduct During Playing: During a rendition of the national anthem:

When the flag is displayed:

All present except those in uniform should stand at attention with their right hand over the heart.<sup id="cite_ref-12" class="reference">[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code#cite_note-12)</sup>
Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder,
Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present and not in uniform may render the military salute.
Individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and


When the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
The musician or musicians performing should sit or stand as they ordinarily would to perform on their instrument or voice.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 08:54 PM
Civilians are supposed to put hand over heart for the anthem too.

that's what I thought too, and
military members in uniform salute
military members in civilian attire can put hand over hear, stand at attention or parade rest.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 08:56 PM
Patriotism, in my view, should be grounded by your alignment with the ideas that your country espouses. It should never merely be a product of living in said country.

Me thinks there's a significant difference between loving one's country and loving one's child.
Would you ever put your country BEFORE your child?



What have you to say about people who don't believe America represents the freedom that their patriotism is rooted in?


There have been times in our country's history where putting your child first is accomplished by putting your country first.

And yes I have, I have missed precious moments with my children to wear a uniform in another country in duty to our United States.

SNR
12-19-2011, 08:57 PM
Canada has high taxes, shitty socialized healthcare, does not allow foreign workers and mandates that radio stations play at least 33% Canadian artist.

They tax the shit out of alcohol and tobacco.

While they have the same basic "freedoms" its way more socialist.

The other countries you listed (besides Belize because I don't know) have much higher taxes as well.Okay. I'll give you taxes. I'll also give you another country.

Netherlands.

I can smoke a joint on the street in Amsterdam, but I can't even do that in my own fucking living room in the United States. What gives, huh? Home of the free, you say?

SNR
12-19-2011, 08:58 PM
Your free to move to any of those countries anytime.
You're mother

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 09:00 PM
Okay. I'll give you taxes. I'll also give you another country.

Netherlands.

I can smoke a joint on the street in Amsterdam, but I can't even do that in my own ****ing living room in the United States. What gives, huh? Home of the free, you say?

Amsterdam is a bit of a mess from what I understand though I can't say I know from first hand experience.
C
an you imagine having to listen to 33% Canadian bands all the time?

Holy shit Nickleback, Rush, and Celine Deion all the time. Ahhhhhhhhh.

SNR
12-19-2011, 09:03 PM
Amsterdam is a bit of a mess from what I understand though I can't say I know from first hand experience.
C
an you imagine having to listen to 33% Canadian bands all the time?

Holy shit Nickleback, Rush, and Celine Deion all the time. Ahhhhhhhhh.Do classical music stations in Canada have to play 33% Canadian composers? Do Canadian classical music artists count?

They must listen to a lot of Glenn Gould in Canada :eek:

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 09:04 PM
Okay. I'll give you taxes. I'll also give you another country.

Netherlands.

I can smoke a joint on the street in Amsterdam, but I can't even do that in my own fucking living room in the United States. What gives, huh? Home of the free, you say?

yes, because smoking a joint is the epitome of freedom... :facepalm:

Anyway, weed isn't legal in Amsterdam, it's been decriminalized and there are coffee shops you can smoke it, but you're not supposed to smoke it in the street.....

Have you ever been to Amsterdam? Europe? Do you only know what you read on the interweb? LMAO

Pawnmower
12-19-2011, 09:04 PM
Okay. I'll give you taxes. I'll also give you another country.

Netherlands.


33.5%, 42%, 42%, and 52% tax rates plus another 19% sales tax on many goods

If I was a stoner, I'd rather move to one of many states where it is legal to get high..

Although the Netherlands is beautiful....I could go for summers there and winters elsewhere 8-)

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 09:12 PM
Okay. I'll give you taxes. I'll also give you another country.

Netherlands.

I can smoke a joint on the street in Amsterdam, but I can't even do that in my own fucking living room in the United States. What gives, huh? Home of the free, you say?

Hell, cocaine is legal in Mexico - guess that means Mexico is more free than America.... ROFL

SNR
12-19-2011, 09:14 PM
Hell, cocaine is legal in Mexico - guess that means Mexico is more free than America.... ROFLI'm talking about freedom, dude. Why the fuck should I give a shit about a country that shoves words like "freedom" in my face 24/7, but then restricts so many things I want to do?

Marcellus
12-19-2011, 09:18 PM
I'm talking about freedom, dude. Why the **** should I give a shit about a country that shoves words like "freedom" in my face 24/7, but then restricts so many things I want to do?

You do realize everyone just being able to do what they want would make the world an even bigger fucked up mess?

Part of democracy is supposed to be allowing what the majority deems acceptable (even though there is some argument that that's not even the case anymore.)

Go to Somalia, I am pretty sure you can do whatever you feel like there. Great place to live.

Micjones
12-19-2011, 09:18 PM
There have been times in our country's history where putting your child first is accomplished by putting your country first.

And yes I have, I have missed precious moments with my children to wear a uniform in another country in duty to our United States.

Of your own free will though, no?

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 09:25 PM
I'm talking about freedom, dude. Why the fuck should I give a shit about a country that shoves words like "freedom" in my face 24/7, but then restricts so many things I want to do?


Ah, the tricky part of freedoms, see when your perceived freedom infringes on other people's freedoms, then it's not really a freedom is it? For example, you're not free to steal my TV, kill my brother, or throw a rock through my window. If you're talking about doing dope, go live in Amsterdam until the US decriminalizes it in the next few years.

What's the list of "so many things" you are restricted from doing?

Pawnmower
12-19-2011, 09:26 PM
I'm talking about freedom, dude. Why the **** should I give a shit about a country that shoves words like "freedom" in my face 24/7, but then restricts so many things I want to do?

come to cali, i got mad weed

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 09:28 PM
come to cali, i got mad weed

So that's why you're so stupid.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 09:30 PM
Would you ever put your country BEFORE your child?

I said yes, and tried to explain my reasoning

Of your own free will though, no?

Yes, is there any other way you were implying, I mean what's your point?


Patriotism, in my view, should be grounded by your alignment with the ideas that your country espouses. It should never merely be a product of living in said country.

You're not grounded in principle to the ideas the US espouses?

Bambi
12-19-2011, 09:31 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code
Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem



When reciting the Pledge of Allegiance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance), all present should stand at attention facing the flag with their right hand over their heart, with the exception of those in uniform who shall salute.
When the national anthem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner) is played or sung:



Designation: The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
Conduct During Playing: During a rendition of the national anthem:

When the flag is displayed:

All present except those in uniform should stand at attention with their right hand over the heart.<sup id="cite_ref-12" class="reference">[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code#cite_note-12)</sup>
Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder,
Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present and not in uniform may render the military salute.
Individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and


When the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
The musician or musicians performing should sit or stand as they ordinarily would to perform on their instrument or voice.





That shit was definitely snuck in there by the Bush administration.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 09:32 PM
That shit was definitely snuck in there by the Bush administration.

yup, it was a conspiracy to get more people in the military. Had to do something, no way a draft was coming back.....

Micjones
12-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Yes, is there any other way you were implying, I mean what's your point?

My point is simply that serving one's country in that way doesn't make you any more patriotic than someone who, say, has chosen to be an educator or a community organizer.

You're not grounded in principle to the ideas the US espouses?

Some of them certainly, but I think to pretend America doesn't have regressive and destructive ideas and practices is to be dishonest. There are certainly a number of American ideas I do not espouse.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 09:48 PM
My point is simply that serving one's country in that way doesn't make you any more patriotic than someone who, say, has chosen to be an educator or a community organizer.



Some of them certainly, but I think to pretend America doesn't have regressive and destructive ideas and practices is to be dishonest. There are certainly a number of American ideas I do not espouse.


for the first point, I agree

for the second point, patriotism does not equal blind faith, or acceptance to all American ideas. Where does standing up and being quiet during the national anthem sync up to your point? Do you espouse the majority of american principles? Do you like living here, do you like the freedoms of political ideals, religious beliefs, coming or going as you see fit. Voting on ideas you agree with? Then stop trolling, stand for the anthem out of respect for all America has been through, good and bad, things you agree with and disagree with. Why can't we have unity in one small act?

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2011, 10:03 PM
You do realize everyone just being able to do what they want would make the world an even bigger ****ed up mess?

Part of democracy is supposed to be allowing what the majority deems acceptable (even though there is some argument that that's not even the case anymore.)

Go to Somalia, I am pretty sure you can do whatever you feel like there. Great place to live.

LMAO

Micjones
12-19-2011, 10:10 PM
for the second point, patriotism does not equal blind faith, or acceptance to all American ideas. Where does standing up and being quiet during the national anthem sync up to your point?

There are people, a large number of them, who believe America represents colonialism and imperialism as much as it represents freedom. If that is even possible, I can understand why someone might abstain.

Do you espouse the majority of american principles?

I certainly believe in ideas like freedom. I just don't know that American history has been a good indicator of America's interest in it. And, again, certainly there are American ideas I clearly do not espouse.

Then stop trolling, stand for the anthem out of respect for all America has been through, good and bad, things you agree with and disagree with. Why can't we have unity in one small act?

Trolling often translates as "holding an opinion that differs from my own". Certainly that's not what you're trying to get across is it?

We can talk about patriotism once we're open to also discussing the uncomfortable truths of America's past. Something America has often proven it has zero interest in.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 10:35 PM
There are people, a large number of them, who believe America represents colonialism and imperialism as much as it represents freedom. If that is even possible, I can understand why someone might abstain.



I certainly believe in ideas like freedom. I just don't know that American history has been a good indicator of America's interests in it. And, again, certainly there are American ideas I despise.



Trolling often translates as "holding an opinion that differs from my own". Certainly that's not what you're trying to get across is it?

We can talk about patriotism once we're open to also discussing the uncomfortable truths of America's past. Something America has often proven it has zero interest in.


I'm tiring of this conversation, trolling = saying shit to elicit a response, a staple of posting styles on CP. I do it too sometimes, even in this thread going all mega patriot, to feed the flames. America was born on the ideas of gaining freedoms from the colonial era's past. Nothing has been perfect, but we've progressed to more and more freedoms.

The point of the conversation for this thread was about standing for the anthem and it relating to patriotism. Well the truth is this;

Ready for it?

Both the Texan players that didn't put their hand on their heart and Shockey speaking out for his beliefs are right, American and not worth fighting about. There is no law saying you have to stand for the anthem, there is no law saying you can't think it's the better idea to stand, there is no law outlawing either opinion.

Micjones
12-19-2011, 10:38 PM
I'm tiring of this conversation, trolling = saying shit to elicit a response, a staple of posting styles on CP. I do it too sometimes, even in this thread going all mega patriot, to feed the flames. America was born on the ideas of gaining freedoms from the colonial era's past. Nothing has been perfect, but we've progressed to more and more freedoms.

If that's the true connotative definition of the word...
I've never "trolled" a day in my life in this forum.

Ready for it?

Both the Texan players that didn't put their hand on their heart and Shockey speaking out for his beliefs are right, American and not worth fighting about. There is no law saying you have to stand for the anthem, there is no law saying you can't think it's the better idea to stand, there is no law outlawing either opinion.

We stand in agreement, sir.

patteeu
12-19-2011, 10:48 PM
My opinion on this is:

1. I know that I'm supposed to put my hand over my heart so I do, out of respect for the ideals of this country.

2. I don't expect everyone to know the proper protocol, so I don't draw conclusions about the respect for those ideals of people who don't put their hands over their hearts.

3. People who intentionally disrespect the country during the playing of the anthem as a feckless private protest aren't worth worrying about.

Pawnmower
12-19-2011, 11:04 PM
So that's why you're so stupid.

I could beat you at any type of test , on any subject, sober or not.

Come at me TROLL.

I take shits that are smarter than you.

crazycoffey
12-19-2011, 11:09 PM
My opinion on this is:

1. I know that I'm supposed to put my hand over my heart so I do, out of respect for the ideals of this country.

2. I don't expect everyone to know the proper protocol, so I don't draw conclusions about the respect for those ideals of people who don't put their hands over their hearts.

3. People who intentionally disrespect the country during the playing of the anthem as a feckless private protest aren't worth worrying about.

1. me too
2. me too
3. I'm saddened a bit by intentional trolling in real life, for whatever motivation.

Backwards Masking
12-19-2011, 11:10 PM
"they should be very gifted to be living here," Shockey said.



I still think that's pretty Unpatriotic. He trying to say anyone not gifted should be deported?

Jeremy's a Dick.

NJChiefsFan
12-20-2011, 03:30 AM
We're going to send a bunch of New Jersey Chiefs fans to your house to beat you up.

You guys send me the $50 billion it takes to cross the George Washington Bridge now and I am there.

tmw4h5
12-20-2011, 04:55 AM
ITT: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls.