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View Full Version : Chiefs If Orton Wins the Final Two Games


'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2011, 05:36 PM
What would you like to see the Chiefs do regarding the quarterback position?

Note: the "giving up few picks" option means no trading into the top 10.

Mr_Tomahawk
12-21-2011, 05:37 PM
See my signature:

Count Alex's Losses
12-21-2011, 05:37 PM
Eliminate it entirely. Direct snaps to Charles.

Caseyguyrr
12-21-2011, 05:37 PM
draft a 1st round qb

Scorp
12-21-2011, 05:39 PM
Eliminate it entirely. Direct snaps to Charles.

Screw that............let Bowe throw the ball to Bowe!

O.city
12-21-2011, 05:39 PM
keep Orton, develop stanzi draft qb. may the best qb win in camp

Fritz88
12-21-2011, 05:40 PM
Cut Cassel.

Draft a QB.

Keep Orton and Stanzi.

Deberg_1990
12-21-2011, 05:40 PM
What would you like to see the Chiefs do regarding the quarterback position?

Yes, because this has never been discussed before here.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2011, 05:41 PM
Yes, because this has never been discussed before here.

I'd like to see it quantified, jackass.

Buehler445
12-21-2011, 05:41 PM
First in. Wow.

Count Alex's Losses
12-21-2011, 05:42 PM
Yes, because this has never been discussed before here.

We need to see it quantified, jackass.

BoneKrusher
12-21-2011, 05:43 PM
if Orton wins the final two games i say he should call Castle and ask him if he took notes.













seriously, they need to keep Orton.
Cut Cassel and Palko and draft the Best QB available.

and also i hope they keep Stanzi around.

KCrockaholic
12-21-2011, 05:43 PM
First in. Wow.

That's what "he" said.

Deberg_1990
12-21-2011, 05:44 PM
I'd like to see it quantified, jackass.

Im more of a Qualitative kind of guy myself, jackass.

lewdog
12-21-2011, 05:50 PM
Ok, this is a what do you WANT the Chiefs to do not what you think they WILL do. Got it.

Baby Lee
12-21-2011, 05:51 PM
I'd like to see it quantified, jackass.

We need to see it quantified, jackass.

Sittin' in a tree . . .

Dexter Manley
12-21-2011, 06:00 PM
If the Chiefs win, then it must be 100% because of Orton, and 0% because of the other 45 active Chiefs...

The Titans did this. Vince Young "won" a game where the Titan O produced a total of 5 first downs and one FG...

Try this.

If Orton plays really well, regardless of the game's outcome, should we do X Y or Z....

KCrockaholic
12-21-2011, 06:04 PM
I'd like to see it quantified, jackass.

We need to see it quantified, jackass.

You two have so much in common, you should go fuck eachother.

Okie_Apparition
12-21-2011, 06:07 PM
See his chemistry with the team over the next two works before answering

whoman69
12-21-2011, 06:10 PM
Trade Cassel, keep Orton, trade up for QB. No giving up the Ricky Williams farm.

ChiefsCountry
12-21-2011, 06:14 PM
I say sign him to a longer deal but front load so we can cut him later if need to.

KCChiefsFan88
12-21-2011, 06:29 PM
Trade Cassel, keep Orton, trade up for QB. No giving up the Ricky Williams farm.

Who would be dumb enough to trade anything for Cassel?

Is Fat Scott calling the shots for another team as well?

Dexter Manley
12-21-2011, 06:30 PM
Who would be dumb enough to trade anything for Cassel?




JOSH MCDANIELS

Thig Lyfe
12-21-2011, 06:31 PM
Keep Orton short term, trade up for a QBOTF, let Stanzi compete, disembowel Cassel and dump his remains in the Missouri river.

chiefzilla1501
12-21-2011, 06:48 PM
Who would be dumb enough to trade anything for Cassel?

Is Fat Scott calling the shots for another team as well?

Cassel has plenty of trade value. I think he could easily command a late 2nd or early 3rd. There are teams in worse QB situations who would love to have a top shelf backup or a stopgap starter. And I'm sure there are teams out there who actually think Cassel has something left to contribute.

Dexter Manley
12-21-2011, 06:50 PM
"Cassel has plenty of trade value. I think he could easily command a late 2nd or early 3rd."


and folks here think I am an "insane lunatic..."

Chocolate Hog
12-21-2011, 06:55 PM
Sign Orton to a two year deal, trade up for QB (offering few assets)

Chocolate Hog
12-21-2011, 06:56 PM
I say sign him to a longer deal but front load so we can cut him later if need to.

Don't worry Pioli only signs guys who can be productive for a year. It's a growing trend if you look at his signings.

BoneKrusher
12-21-2011, 06:57 PM
"Cassel has plenty of trade value. I think he could easily command a late 2nd or early 3rd."




smokin' some good weed A?

Tribal Warfare
12-21-2011, 07:40 PM
KC needs to win out make the playoffs then win a playoff game to end the Cassel era.

Stanley Nickels
12-21-2011, 07:53 PM
Jesus Christ, I just realized something.. I have no idea why I hadn't thought of it before, but Orton winning the next two games could be catastrophic in the long-term for the Chiefs. In this hypothetical, I'm supposing that Orton will be named a starter, but will not be a top-10 level QB, and the Chiefs will continue to flounder without a true franchise-building QB.

Okay, let's assume Orton wins the next two games. Regardless of playoff situation, he'll likely be involved in a "tense" (at least we'll be led to believe that in the public) QB battle in ST next year with Cassel, which will inevitably see Cassel humbly returning to his status as a backup QB. We aren't going to draft a QB with an Orton/Cassel/Stanzi QB corps. Pioli is too proud to get rid of Cassel, and will likely balk at any paltry offers made to trade him through the draft. Further, he won't cut Stanzi, because the last thing he needs is people further questioning his drafting ability. Should he get rid of Cassel or Stanzi, the blame will fall on him for more wasted draft picks. If Orton, the only truly "expendable" guy (that is, the one Pioli could be rid of without too much blame falling back on him) excels, public outcry for him as starter would effectively destroy our ability to draft a QB.

That's not good.

Ugh.

FringeNC
12-21-2011, 07:54 PM
Signing Orton to a two-year deal vs. long-term deal -- doesn't a lot of that depend on Orton, and the signing bonus and all the other details? Isn't any contract given to Orton functionally equivalent given players preferences and other signing opportunities? Calling it a two-year deal or long-term deal is semantics.

Mr_Tomahawk
12-21-2011, 07:58 PM
Jesus Christ, I just realized something.. I have no idea why I hadn't thought of it before, but Orton winning the next two games could be catastrophic in the long-term for the Chiefs. In this hypothetical, I'm supposing that Orton will be named a starter, but will not be a top-10 level QB, and the Chiefs will continue to flounder without a true franchise-building QB.

Okay, let's assume Orton wins the next two games. Regardless of playoff situation, he'll likely be involved in a "tense" (at least we'll be led to believe that in the public) QB battle in ST next year with Cassel, which will inevitably see Cassel humbly returning to his status as a backup QB. We aren't going to draft a QB with an Orton/Cassel/Stanzi QB corps. Pioli is too proud to get rid of Cassel, and will likely balk at any paltry offers made to trade him through the draft. Further, he won't cut Stanzi, because the last thing he needs is people further questioning his drafting ability. Should he get rid of Cassel or Stanzi, the blame will fall on him for more wasted draft picks. If Orton, the only truly "expendable" guy (that is, the one Pioli could be rid of without too much blame falling back on him) excels, public outcry for him as starter would effectively destroy our ability to draft a QB.

That's not good.

Ugh.

I doubt Clark Pioli dish $5 million for Cassel to be a backup.

el borracho
12-21-2011, 07:58 PM
The next two games don't mean a hell of a lot as far as legitimate evaluation is concerned. Orton's previous 6 years in the league mean a lot more than beating the Raiders and/or Broncos in 2011 would mean. Hell, they are as bad as we are. Maybe worse.

Frankly, once you have established that a guy is "not the answer" you need to move on, even if the cost is high. Why? Because the long-term gain is more than the short-term cost. If we are taking the long-view, we should cut Cassel and let Orton walk and draft a legit QB prospect.

No real reason to go into the season with more than two QBs. If you get to a 3rd QB in a season, then your season is probably meaningless anyway and you can just pick a QB up off the waiver wire or off of someone's practice squad and it would make the same difference.

KC Tattoo
12-21-2011, 08:00 PM
Chiefs don't have the balls to draft a first round rookie. They don't have the balls to play a rookie QB anyways.

DeezNutz
12-21-2011, 08:01 PM
I watched Stanzi play at Iowa, and he deserves a chance to start.

milkman
12-21-2011, 08:36 PM
I don't give a rat's ass one way or another about Orton's future.

Sign him, let him walk....whatever.

Do what you need to trade up and draft the potential future of this franchise.

Extra Point
12-21-2011, 08:41 PM
Cut Cassel.

Draft a QB.

Keep Orton and Stanzi.

This. BPA 1st round is BPA.

The kid from Houston is pretty damned good.

Von Dumbass
12-21-2011, 08:45 PM
Orton wants a long term deal and it would be a surprise if he accepts a two year deal. He had a six year deal lined up in Miami before the Dolphins owner axed the deal.

Guru
12-21-2011, 09:03 PM
2 year deal and trade up. simple

Stanley Nickels
12-21-2011, 09:21 PM
Frankly, once you have established that a guy is "not the answer" you need to move on, even if the cost is high. Why? Because the long-term gain is more than the short-term cost. If we are taking the long-view, we should cut Cassel and let Orton walk and draft a legit QB prospect.


In an ideal system you're right. But Cassel is the posterchild of the Pioli regime. Cut him and it immediately proclaims two things: 1) Pioli can admit he was wrong, and 2) Pioli was wrong. I just don't think he has that in him. Rational thought dictates that if Cassel will not bring KC success, it is in Pioli's self-interest to release or trade him. But rational thought is interrupted when someone thinks they have an ability that supercedes common thought (their ego). I could definitely see Pioli being the stubborn type to win with Cassel or go down with that ship.

MahiMike
12-21-2011, 09:33 PM
Pretty surprised by this. We have a QB in Orton and just need to fill in the missing pieces.

Denny
12-21-2011, 09:40 PM
I don't give a rat's ass one way or another about Orton's future.

Sign him, let him walk....whatever.

Do what you need to trade up and draft the potential future of this franchise.
Let's see. If the season ended today, the Chiefs would have the 12th pick.

The projected 1st round QB prospects are: Luck (Stanford), Barkley (USC), RG3 (Baylor), and Lance Jones (Oklahoma).

Colts will win the "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes. Even if Peyton Manning does make it back from his neck surgery - he's already 35. The Colts won't have a better chance to draft a suitable successor.

After that, the picks get "iffy" - as usual. Teams 2-6 have just drafted QBs, so they won't take another one next draft. Washington needs a QB and will take Barkley with the 7th pick. Dolphins might grab Lance Jones with the the 8th pick.

That exhausts the possible 1st round prospects 4 slots before KC gets a pick. Should they wildly reach for Ryan Tannehill (Texas A&M) at 12th when he's seen as a 2nd or 3rd rounder?

Good teams don't draft desperately. They don't reach for players. They carefully research and take the best available players. That's how the Steelers and Patriots manage to "re-load" instead of "re-build." They're consistently good at drafting because they don't panic...

ChiefsCountry
12-21-2011, 09:40 PM
Pretty surprised by this. We have a QB in Orton and just need to fill in the missing pieces.

:facepalm:

ChiefsCountry
12-21-2011, 09:42 PM
Good teams don't draft desperately. They don't reach for players. They carefully research and take the best available players. That's how the Steelers and Patriots manage to "re-load" instead of "re-build." They're consistently good at drafting because they don't panic...

:facepalm: Please quit posting on this site, you are a cluelss moran.

milkman
12-21-2011, 09:46 PM
Let's see. If the season ended today, the Chiefs would have the 12th pick.

The projected 1st round QB prospects are: Luck (Stanford), Barkley (USC), RG3 (Baylor), and Lance Jones (Oklahoma).

Colts will win the "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes. Even if Peyton Manning does make it back from his neck surgery - he's already 35. The Colts won't have a better chance to draft a suitable successor.

After that, the picks get "iffy" - as usual. Teams 2-6 have just drafted QBs, so they won't take another one next draft. Washington needs a QB and will take Barkley with the 7th pick. Dolphins might grab Lance Jones with the the 8th pick.

That exhausts the possible 1st round prospects 4 slots before KC gets a pick. Should they wildly reach for Ryan Tannehill (Texas A&M) at 12th when he's seen as a 2nd or 3rd rounder?

Good teams don't draft desperately. They don't reach for players. They carefully research and take the best available players. That's how the Steelers and Patriots manage to "re-load" instead of "re-build." They're consistently good at drafting because they don't panic...

You are clueless, as ChiefsCountry states.

First, it's Landry Jones, and I wouldn't touch that useless bastard in the 5th round, much less the first.

Second, I didn't say reach for a QB, and pay close attention this time, I said TRADE UP, you dumbass.

Red Brooklyn
12-21-2011, 09:51 PM
I don't give a rat's ass one way or another about Orton's future.

Sign him, let him walk....whatever.

Do what you need to trade up and draft the potential future of this franchise.
This.

Though if Orton's presence means Cassel's absence... I'm all in favor of having Orton on board. Even if it's just to create potential competition for the starting spot, or to have a damn fine back up.

Full disclosure: I voted for the choice about signing Orton for two and moving up to draft at all costs. Because that's the best option in the poll, IMO.

Denny
12-21-2011, 09:54 PM
You are clueless, as ChiefsCountry states.

First, it's Landry Jones, and I wouldn't touch that useless bastard in the 5th round, much less the first.

Second, I didn't say reach for a QB, and pay close attention this time, I said TRADE UP, you dumbass.
First, "Lance" is Landry Jones' nickname, you dumbass. It's what he goes by.

Second, there's a rookie wage cap in place now. Teams are far less likely to trade out of high draft picks, because it won't break the bank if a high pick doesn't work out. Can't trade up if nobody else wants to trade down.

Unfortunately, as it stands the Chiefs just don't suck quite badly enough to get a shot at one this year. Of course, if you just let Orton walk and stay the course next season with Cassel, it'll probably work in 2013...

The Bad Guy
12-21-2011, 09:58 PM
Cassel has plenty of trade value. I think he could easily command a late 2nd or early 3rd. There are teams in worse QB situations who would love to have a top shelf backup or a stopgap starter. And I'm sure there are teams out there who actually think Cassel has something left to contribute.

What fucking universe do you live on?

Good fucking jesus. The sad thing is, you were serious about this post.

The Bad Guy
12-21-2011, 10:00 PM
KC needs to win out make the playoffs then win a playoff game to end the Cassel era.

More bullshit from you.

Orton needs to play really well in the final 2 games. He does that, regardless if Buffalo beats Denver, and that will end this Cassel BS era.

Denny
12-21-2011, 10:03 PM
:facepalm: Please quit posting on this site, you are a cluelss moran.
If by calling me a "cluelss moran" (I assume you meant, "clueless moron" - sorry, can't help being a spelling/grammar cop :jester:), you meant that you couldn't think of how to reply to the QB draft situation the Chiefs are facing makes the "Just draft a franchise QB, gawd-dammit" position unreasonable, so you chose a flippant insult instead of a real answer...

...it's okay. :Peace:

ChiefsCountry
12-21-2011, 10:05 PM
If by calling me a "cluelss moran" (I assume you meant, "clueless moron" - sorry, can't help being a spelling/grammar cop :jester:), you meant that you couldn't think of how to reply to the QB draft situation the Chiefs are facing makes the "Just draft a franchise QB, gawd-dammit" position unreasonable, so you chose a flippant insult instead of a real answer...

...it's okay. :Peace:

Fuck off douche.

Dr. Gigglepants
12-21-2011, 10:13 PM
I don't give a rat's ass one way or another about Orton's future.

Sign him, let him walk....whatever.

Do what you need to trade up and draft the potential future of this franchise.

This is me also. I don't see Orton as an answer to our problem, so let him walk and take the pick we get for him. Trade up to get one of the top 3 QB's, and let them sit behind Cassel for as long as they need before jumping into the starting role.

Orton is no more a viable option for us than Cassel is, whether we win our final 3 games with him or not, so why not just use Cassel and his friendly contract next year instead of tying up more money with Orton.

milkman
12-21-2011, 10:14 PM
If by calling me a "cluelss moran" (I assume you meant, "clueless moron" - sorry, can't help being a spelling/grammar cop :jester:), you meant that you couldn't think of how to reply to the QB draft situation the Chiefs are facing makes the "Just draft a franchise QB, gawd-dammit" position unreasonable, so you chose a flippant insult instead of a real answer...

...it's okay. :Peace:

"Moran" is planet lexicon.

Mr_Tomahawk
12-21-2011, 10:20 PM
If by calling me a "cluelss moran" (I assume you meant, "clueless moron" - sorry, can't help being a spelling/grammar cop :jester:), you meant that you couldn't think of how to reply to the QB draft situation the Chiefs are facing makes the "Just draft a franchise QB, gawd-dammit" position unreasonable, so you chose a flippant insult instead of a real answer...

...it's okay. :Peace:

your and idiot

Denny
12-21-2011, 10:26 PM
"Moran" is planet lexicon.
Mea culpa.

Thanks for straightening me out there.

MahiMike
12-21-2011, 10:27 PM
:facepalm:

You are a dick. And pretty clueless at that.:banghead:

milkman
12-21-2011, 10:29 PM
You are a dick. And pretty clueless at that.:banghead:

We're all dicks, except for Simply Red.

What's your point?

Brock
12-21-2011, 10:29 PM
Cassel has plenty of trade value. I think he could easily command a late 2nd or early 3rd. There are teams in worse QB situations who would love to have a top shelf backup or a stopgap starter. And I'm sure there are teams out there who actually think Cassel has something left to contribute.

LMAO Oh good heavens.

ChiefsCountry
12-21-2011, 10:31 PM
You are a dick. And pretty clueless at that.:banghead:

You are the one that thinks Kyle Orton is the QB for the future and I'm clueless. LMAO

MahiMike
12-21-2011, 10:31 PM
We're all dicks, except for Simply Red.

What's your point?

True. But his dick has spores.

Extra Point
12-21-2011, 10:35 PM
I just can't wait until the draft. No QB in the first round. A lot of assholes will flap, with no pucker.

Denny
12-21-2011, 10:36 PM
This is me also. I don't see Orton as an answer to our problem, so let him walk and take the pick we get for him. Trade up to get one of the top 3 QB's, and let them sit behind Cassel for as long as they need before jumping into the starting role.
I doubt that Orton would be interested in staying unless Cassel is traded and he's given some sort of guarantee that he would start (no high pick QBs). In Denver he repeatedly stated that he had no interest in being a backup and has demonstrated with Tebow that he certainly isn't interested in mentoring. He'd rather start for Jacksonville at league minimum than be a backup...

Orton is no more a viable option for us than Cassel is, whether we win our final 3 games with him or not, so why not just use Cassel and his friendly contract next year instead of tying up more money with Orton.
"Friendly contract?"

He's due $5.25M next year, $7.5M in 2013 and $9M in 2014. It may not be a record-breaking deal, but I wouldn't call it a "friendly contract" - especially for a QB like Cassel...

KCChiefsFan88
12-21-2011, 10:36 PM
Cassel has plenty of trade value. I think he could easily command a late 2nd or early 3rd. There are teams in worse QB situations who would love to have a top shelf backup or a stopgap starter. And I'm sure there are teams out there who actually think Cassel has something left to contribute.

Seriously? LMAO

NJChiefsFan
12-21-2011, 10:40 PM
Seriously? LMAO

I think the only person that would be foolish enough to give up a 2nd for Matt is Pete in SEA but after they locked up Jackosn I think KC would be lucky as hell to get a 4th.

Personally I just want him out. If getting nothing is what it takes to eliminate the risk of Cassel, so be it. To me, anything in return is icing on the cake. Way I see it, the cake that is Cassel being gone already has plenty of icing.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-21-2011, 10:44 PM
Give up entire draft for Jason Baggins/ Boobie

Dr. Gigglepants
12-21-2011, 10:48 PM
I doubt that Orton would be interested in staying unless Cassel is traded and he's given some sort of guarantee that he would start (no high pick QBs). In Denver he repeatedly stated that he had no interest in being a backup and has demonstrated with Tebow that he certainly isn't interested in mentoring. He'd rather start for Jacksonville at league minimum than be a backup...


"Friendly contract?"

He's due $5.25M next year, $7.5M in 2013 and $9M in 2014. It may not be a record-breaking deal, but I wouldn't call it a "friendly contract" - especially for a QB like Cassel...

Then call it the friendly portion of his contract. 40 mil for the first 3 years, 23 mil for the last 3 years. Also, those numbers aren't much for a QB. I bet Orton will get that long term deal he wants, and it will be north of 10 mil per year on average. I don't want us to have to pay him that, when we already have him on our roster for cheaper.

Denny
12-21-2011, 11:30 PM
Then call it the friendly portion of his contract. 40 mil for the first 3 years, 23 mil for the last 3 years. Also, those numbers aren't much for a QB. I bet Orton will get that long term deal he wants, and it will be north of 10 mil per year on average. I don't want us to have to pay him that, when we already have him on our roster for cheaper.
Orton had agreed to a 3-year, $6M per year deal with Miami.

Prior to the Dolphins' owner stepping in and nixing it...

Dexter Manley
12-21-2011, 11:36 PM
smokin' some good weed A?


notice the quotes... That's not my quote...

Dexter Manley
12-21-2011, 11:39 PM
"Moran" is planet lexicon.


Scanners indicate the planet has an extremely high number of life forms that qualify as "morans..."

boogblaster
12-21-2011, 11:42 PM
Keep Orton short term, trade up for a QBOTF, let Stanzi compete, disembowel Cassel and dump his remains in the Missouri river.

this .....

TRR
12-21-2011, 11:47 PM
It seems like Kyle Orton has been in/around the NFL for a long time. I had no clue that KO is younger by a couple of months than Matt Cassel.

Is it even possible that Pioli would try to sell Cassel as the starter again next season if Orton continues to play like he did against GB the last two games? I would hope not.

jd1020
12-21-2011, 11:50 PM
It seems like Kyle Orton has been in/around the NFL for a long time. I had no clue that KO is younger by a couple of months than Matt Cassel.

Is it even possible that Pioli would try to sell Cassel as the starter again next season if Orton continues to play like he did against GB the last two games? I would hope not.

Of course he will. He still thinks hes tied to Cassel and it will be as simple as Cassel still under contract.

Guru
12-22-2011, 12:01 AM
First, "Lance" is Landry Jones' nickname, you dumbass. It's what he goes by.

Second, there's a rookie wage cap in place now. Teams are far less likely to trade out of high draft picks, because it won't break the bank if a high pick doesn't work out. Can't trade up if nobody else wants to trade down.

Unfortunately, as it stands the Chiefs just don't suck quite badly enough to get a shot at one this year. Of course, if you just let Orton walk and stay the course next season with Cassel, it'll probably work in 2013...

But, it also gives those high pick teams more leverage over the teams that want to trade up.

BossChief
12-22-2011, 12:25 AM
Give Orton the cash we would have given to Cassel on a 3 year plug and try to get whatever you can for Cassel (likely topping out at a mid 4th)

Zero in on 2 QBs you are sold on and once the first one comes off the board, do whatever it takes to move up for the other one.

Hopefully in the next 3 years we find a really good long term guy out of the set of Orton, Stanzi and whoever we draft and are able to move the other two for "profit picks" and continue to spend mid rounders on quarterbacks to keep the stable full.

If this was a franchise with a clue (and isnt operating with emotion or ego) and a chance at winning superbowls, thats EXACTLY what it would do.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-22-2011, 12:30 AM
Sittin' in a tree . . .

Notice the exact same grammar and sentence structure, yet different time stamp? He was clearly parodying me.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2011, 01:41 AM
It really depends for me...

If Orton plays really well these next two games, we win them both...we have to keep him I think.

I'd gladly sign Orton to a 3 year deal, and draft BPA. I'd like that BPA to be a QB...and I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with a QB sitting for 2 years behind Orton if Orton plays well and wins games.

and if for some reason Orton makes that 30 year old leap to a franchise guy...then that's a good thing.

and you know, when he was a rookie with the Bears and I saw him in preseason, I thought he looked real good. And then he was thrown into the mix right away and struggled, but won games.

and then he played pretty decent with Denver...and I don't think he had the weapons in Denver that he does in KC (who knows how good Bowe is with a guy who can get him the ball?)

so I am finally excited to watch a few games this season...and if we can get Buffalo to beat Denver we may have a really, really, really exciting week 17 ahead of us.

That's fun, at least.

Dr. Gigglepants
12-22-2011, 07:14 AM
Orton had agreed to a 3-year, $6M per year deal with Miami.

Prior to the Dolphins' owner stepping in and nixing it...

That is surprising, Kevin Kolb got 10 mil per year. So you think we should get rid of Cassel and go with Orton long term or what? Is this contingent on winning our last 2 games?

Dexter Manley
12-22-2011, 07:19 AM
Give up entire draft for Jason Baggins/ Boobie


Actually, you don't need to part with any Draft picks to sign unrestricted Free Agents... really...

Denny
12-22-2011, 07:33 AM
That is surprising, Kevin Kolb got 10 mil per year. So you think we should get rid of Cassel and go with Orton long term or what? Is this contingent on winning our last 2 games?
Kolb was viewed as a better QB because he'd been groomed by Andy Ried in Philly.

I don't think Orton would sign with KC next year unless Cassel is gone. I doubt that happens, so Orton will walk.

But if KC wins the last 2 games with Orton and takes the AFC West - could happen if Denver loses to Buffalo - then the KC Front Office might have to seriously consider jettisoning Cassel to sign Orton...

Dexter Manley
12-22-2011, 07:35 AM
The QB shortage has produced its share of laughable rip-offs. Cassel and Kolb are two.

Indeed, AZ plays better with Skelton in there...

bevischief
12-22-2011, 07:49 AM
Give Orton the cash we would have given to Cassel on a 3 year plug and try to get whatever you can for Cassel (likely topping out at a mid 4th)

Zero in on 2 QBs you are sold on and once the first one comes off the board, do whatever it takes to move up for the other one.

Hopefully in the next 3 years we find a really good long term guy out of the set of Orton, Stanzi and whoever we draft and are able to move the other two for "profit picks" and continue to spend mid rounders on quarterbacks to keep the stable full.

If this was a franchise with a clue (and isnt operating with emotion or ego) and a chance at winning superbowls, thats EXACTLY what it would do.

yep.

Dr. Gigglepants
12-22-2011, 07:55 AM
Kolb was viewed as a better QB because he'd been groomed by Andy Ried in Philly.

I don't think Orton would sign with KC next year unless Cassel is gone. I doubt that happens, so Orton will walk.

But if KC wins the last 2 games with Orton and takes the AFC West - could happen if Denver loses to Buffalo - then the KC Front Office might have to seriously consider jettisoning Cassel to sign Orton...

No they don't. We won 4 games in a row with Cassel, winning 3 with Orton and getting ass rammed in the first round is no big accomplishment. Denver needs to just beat Buffalo so we can end this talk. Signing Orton + BPA in the draft = we're fucked for another 3 or 4 years.

I love how everyone values draft picks so much, when if you get 3 good players out of a draft it's considered a good draft. That means at least 4 draft picks are expendable every year. Do whatever it takes to move up and get one of the top guys, and we're a contender.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2011, 08:06 AM
the only choice "Let Orton walk in FA, trade up for a QB (giving up whatever necessary) "

Not even close...

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2011, 08:07 AM
Orton is better than Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco.

Just try that on for size, Reerun.

Dr. Gigglepants
12-22-2011, 08:08 AM
the only choice "Let Orton walk in FA, trade up for a QB (giving up whatever necessary) "

Not even close...

I accidentally voted for the one above that, "giving up a small amount." Too many options for my brain to ponder. I agree though, take the compensatory pick and move on, thanks for your service, back to your regularly scheduled suck, Chiefs fans!

Dr. Gigglepants
12-22-2011, 08:09 AM
Orton is better than Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco.

Just try that on for size, Reerun.

See: tallest midget

Reerun_KC
12-22-2011, 08:10 AM
Orton is better than Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco.

Just try that on for size, Reerun.

I dont want to..

Great suck still equals suck in the end...

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2011, 08:11 AM
I'm just saying...I'd love to see us draft a 1st round QB...but we don't need to chase Orton out of town, either.

Let the QB sit and learn for a year. What's the rush?

Reerun_KC
12-22-2011, 08:12 AM
I'm just saying...I'd love to see us draft a 1st round QB...but we don't need to chase Orton out of town, either.

Let the QB sit and learn for a year. What's the rush?

Whats not to rush? The sit and learn mantra is pure garbage.

Chiefnj2
12-22-2011, 08:14 AM
Orton is better than Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco.

.

Playoff records?

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2011, 08:16 AM
Whats not to rush? The sit and learn mantra is pure garbage.

Meh.

I have no problem seeing what Orton has to offer next year if we have a young guy ready to take over if he proves to be another retread.

I've said all along, even before the season, Orton is a lot better than people give him credit for. I was annoyed when he won the job over Tebow in the first place.

I don't mind seeing Orton run this offense with Dwayne Bowe and Jamaal Charles.

Not one bit. I'd also like to see us address the QB situation in the draft very early as well.

DTLB58
12-22-2011, 08:17 AM
Cut Cassel.

Draft a QB.

Keep Orton and Stanzi.

This is the only answer. :clap:

Reerun_KC
12-22-2011, 08:20 AM
Meh.

I have no problem seeing what Orton has to offer next year if we have a young guy ready to take over if he proves to be another retread.

I've said all along, even before the season, Orton is a lot better than people give him credit for. I was annoyed when he won the job over Tebow in the first place.

I don't mind seeing Orton run this offense with Dwayne Bowe and Jamaal Charles.

Not one bit. I'd also like to see us address the QB situation in the draft very early as well.


Eh, I am not for Orton and 9-7.... Not in the least... This means another year watching nothing happen.

I would much rather see Cassel and Orton somewhere else as we are watching our own franchise savior take snaps.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2011, 08:20 AM
Playoff records?

That does NOTHING for me. Teams win playoff games, not QB's. Especially not Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez QB's for those two teams.

Those QB's are every bit as flawed, if not more flawed, than Kyle Orton.

The odds of us drafting a QB next year where we're sitting in the draft that turns out to ever be better than Orton is probably no higher than 30%.

Does that mean we shouldn't try? No, I certainly don't think so.

But we have a lot better chance of getting a Rex Grossman than a (insert good QB here).

We have shown to have a "on the verge" elite defense...an Orton led offense with Charles, Bowe, Breaston, and Baldwin with a couple of pieces (like a real FB perhaps?) added on could be enough to find us some postseason success if you ask me.

Again, I still want to draft a QB...but I don't want to draft one just to draft one...I'm hoping our GM can find a good one and not make a panic move.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2011, 08:22 AM
This is the only answer. :clap:

Orton and Stanzi would make great backups...

Orton as #2, I can live with that...

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2011, 08:26 AM
Here are your 1st round QB's from 2005-2010:

Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow

Just saying...no need to get rid of Kyle Orton when you can have Kyle Orton and an early round QB, especially when your hit rate is going to be about 25%.

Dr. Gigglepants
12-22-2011, 08:29 AM
I thought Orton said he wouldn't sign if he was going to be a backup? Cassel would probably love to sit on the bench and make 5 mil next year to watch our 1st round rookie light it up. I doubt Orton is interested in being a stop gap, and I'm not interested in him long term.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2011, 08:31 AM
Andy Dalton and Cam Newton are having just about as much success as you can hope for as rookie QB's...Newton was the #1 pick...Dalton is having a mediocre year (if he were a veteran)...

anyone who expects "our" rookie 1st round QB to "light it up" is going to be in for a big letdown.

Dr. Gigglepants
12-22-2011, 08:37 AM
I may have been channeling my inner-Knowmo a bit in that post, but these decisions aren't just made in a vacuum, where the only thing that matters is what is best for the Kansas City Chiefs.

There are salary cap implications, Orton's wishes, and the long term needs of our team to consider. Orton won't sign here if he is going to be a mentor or backup, and that means we won't be drafting a QB if we sign him. I am against that.

Chiefnj2
12-22-2011, 08:38 AM
That does NOTHING for me. Teams win playoff games, not QB's. Especially not Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez QB's for those two teams.

Those QB's are every bit as flawed, if not more flawed, than Kyle Orton.

The odds of us drafting a QB next year where we're sitting in the draft that turns out to ever be better than Orton is probably no higher than 30%.

Does that mean we shouldn't try? No, I certainly don't think so.

But we have a lot better chance of getting a Rex Grossman than a (insert good QB here).

We have shown to have a "on the verge" elite defense...an Orton led offense with Charles, Bowe, Breaston, and Baldwin with a couple of pieces (like a real FB perhaps?) added on could be enough to find us some postseason success if you ask me.

Again, I still want to draft a QB...but I don't want to draft one just to draft one...I'm hoping our GM can find a good one and not make a panic move.

1. I disagree with your view of QB's not having a major impact in playoff games.

2. Orton has been average (at best) and inconsistent his entire career. In 7 some odd years, he hasn't yet demonstrated the ability to be a very good QB.

3. I am completely dead set against rolling the dice, again, with an average retread QB that management feels could be enough to scrap a playoff win or two together.

Baby Lee
12-22-2011, 09:00 AM
Whats not to rush? The sit and learn mantra is pure garbage.

Sincerely, reigning SB champs.

Dexter Manley
12-22-2011, 10:33 AM
Here are your 1st round QB's from 2005-2010:

Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow

Just saying...no need to get rid of Kyle Orton when you can have Kyle Orton and an early round QB, especially when your hit rate is going to be about 25%.


Of course, the best one is from Vanderbilt...

FringeNC
12-22-2011, 11:21 AM
Here are your 1st round QB's from 2005-2010:

Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow

Just saying...no need to get rid of Kyle Orton when you can have Kyle Orton and an early round QB, especially when your hit rate is going to be about 25%.


Yeah, a major issue is that NFL scouting of college QB sucks. As I mentioned in another thread, there is all this chatter about TJ Yates having all the physical skills and mental toughness needed to be a good NFL quarterback. Yet, QB is the key position in football, and that guy falls to the 5th round.

To win SBs, you have to have a franchise QB, but drafting one early is no guarantee. Perhaps with the new salary slotting for rookies, it makes sense to draft one early until you hit. Additionally, given the low salary hit of 1st rounders now, it probably also makes sense that you sit the guy for a couple years.

Okie_Apparition
12-22-2011, 11:47 AM
You can say, Pioli's ego won't let him drop Cassel
I can say, Pioli gave Haley Cassel, Palko & a 5th rounder to watch him drown
One can not be proven above the other

FringeNC
12-22-2011, 01:42 PM
Cutting Cassel is step one. If that step doesn't happen, then we're fucked until Pioli is fired.

Von Dumbass
12-22-2011, 02:35 PM
This is not Kyle Orton laughing at Tebow when he ran wind sprints full out. One of the major reasons Orton was cut was he had turned off the Broncos. He showed up late, wore a stocking cap in practices, was one of the first to leave and didn't really care after he was removed. Josh McDaniels had told me more than a year ago that Orton wasn't, despite what people thought, a leader on or off the field. Sure, he was elected captain from the offense. Who you going to elect? Offensive tackles are not elected captains. People made a big deal out of it.




http://www.denverpost.com/woodysmailbag/ci_19595911

vailpass
12-22-2011, 02:54 PM
Orton's price tag has gone up a bit. If he wins the next two he may be able to get an offer for more than 2 years from another team.

How many years are you willing to see KC sign him for and how much $/year would you like to see KC match before you think it's a bad deal and they should let Orton walk?

Denny
12-22-2011, 03:00 PM
From the Denver Post, today's "Woody's Mailbag" -

This is not Kyle Orton laughing at Tebow when he ran wind sprints full out. One of the major reasons Orton was cut was he had turned off the Broncos. He showed up late, wore a stocking cap in practices, was one of the first to leave and didn't really care after he was removed. Josh McDaniels had told me more than a year ago that Orton wasn't, despite what people thought, a leader on or off the field. Sure, he was elected captain from the offense. Who you going to elect? Offensive tackles are not elected captains. People made a big deal out of it.
Then in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE, Woody says -
I guarantee you Tebow will be a captain next year.
Sure he will be Woody. After all, HE'S THE QUARTERBACK. "Who you going to elect? Offensive tackles are not elected captains. People made a big deal out of it." With Orton, it's simply the players following good form in electing their starting QB a captain. But if it's Tebow, it has to be because he's such a noble and inspiring leader. :rolleyes:

This is the kind of idiocy that Woody Paige has been spouting for DECADES. He was a raging Jay Cutler fan who was all butt-hurt when his man-crush was traded. So he vented his spleen on Orton. The only reason Woody is a Tebow fan is because it was a hammer to hit Orton with. Before Tebow was drafted, Woody made demented assertions first that Chris Simms was far better than Orton (he finally shut up about that when Simms actually got a start and left a crater in the middle of the field) and then it was Brady Quinn would be the Broncos magic bullet.

He's been pushing a very anti-Orton agenda for years. Apparently he's worked up so much personal animosity towards KO that he simply can't stop now...

Reerun_KC
12-22-2011, 03:13 PM
Sincerely, reigning SB champs.

So now you are comparing Cassel and Orton to Farve?

Only on CP, Only on CP......

philfree
12-22-2011, 03:16 PM
So if Orton wins the last two game where will we be picking? 15-20 range? It would take just way to much to move up into the top 5 and that's where the QBs we want will be picked when all is said and done.

Cave Johnson
12-22-2011, 03:25 PM
So if Orton wins the last two game where will we be picking? 15-20 range? It would take just way to much to move up into the top 5 and that's where the QBs we want will be picked when all is said and done.

Signed, the 2009 Jets.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-22-2011, 03:27 PM
Signed, the 2009 Jets.

Unfortunately, those picks are now worth a hell of a lot more.

I'm fine with giving up multiple firsts to trade up for Griffin.

I'd have no problem giving up two firsts and a couple of thirds.

vailpass
12-22-2011, 03:29 PM
[QUOTE=Denny;8228602]From the Denver Post, today's "Woody's Mailbag" -


Then in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE, Woody says -

Sure he will be Woody. After all, HE'S THE QUARTERBACK. "Who you going to elect? Offensive tackles are not elected captains. People made a big deal out of it." With Orton, it's simply the players following good form in electing their starting QB a captain. But if it's Tebow, it has to be because he's such a noble and inspiring leader. :rolleyes:

QUOTE]

Did you feel a whoosh of wind in your hair while reading Paige's quote?

whoman69
12-22-2011, 03:40 PM
So if Orton wins the last two game where will we be picking? 15-20 range? It would take just way to much to move up into the top 5 and that's where the QBs we want will be picked when all is said and done.

If we make the playoffs I think the lowest we could be would be 21. We could be picking behind NFC teams with a 9-7 record. The only options we have are to trade up to get Landry Jones. We would have to give up way to much to be in the RG3 range. Losing out we'll probably be top 10. Still probably not high enough to draft a QB. My guess is that RG3 is gone by the time Jax comes up and Jones to the Browns. Right now those are the 4th and 5th picks. We'd probably have to give up Bowe to the Rams to move ahead of them. I'd suggest throwing in Cassel.

If the Broncos are blowing out the Bills, I bet they don't show the score at Arrowhead.

kysirsoze
12-22-2011, 03:56 PM
Unfortunately, those picks are now worth a hell of a lot more.

I'm fine with giving up multiple firsts to trade up for Griffin.

I'd have no problem giving up two firsts and a couple of thirds.

Keeping Orton and making a huge deal to get RGIII would be so ****ing awesome that I might not be able to handle it. I am totally on the "don't care what it takes" side of things. Just ****ing finally address the position and go from there. Half measures = first round playoff losses.

I think Pioli will finally move on from Cassel. With a veteran QB to smooth the transition, I don't think he'll hold desperately on to Cassel anymore. Nothing could be more damaging to his legacy than staying with Cassel. (Except possible hiring Josh McDaniels.)

whoman69
12-22-2011, 04:31 PM
If the Broncos beat the Bills then the Chiefs are eliminated and the Broncos pretty much clinch the division. The Raiders would be eliminated with a loss against the Chiefs. Chiefs still need a loss from the Chargers which they will probably provide this weekend against the Lions. Chargers need to win out and the Broncos lose out since they would lose a tiebreaker.

Buckweath
12-22-2011, 04:53 PM
The odds of us drafting a QB next year where we're sitting in the draft that turns out to ever be better than Orton is probably no higher than 30%.


Totally agree. That`s why we absolutely have to trade up for Griffin even if it costs multiple 1st round picks and more.

Tribal Warfare
12-22-2011, 05:06 PM
Totally agree. That`s why we absolutely have to trade up for Griffin even if it costs multiple 1st round picks and more.

And this is what fucking kills me about Haley and his dumbass urge to start Palko instead of getting a look at Stanzi. Fuck, now there isn't enough time to see what we have in the kid, so we'll have to make a move on RG3 due to his established ability and great potential.