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View Full Version : Chiefs Be the GM Part 3


whoman69
01-09-2012, 12:53 PM
This will be a repeating feature. We will take each position in turn. For each position we will look at the players we already have on the roster and whether those player should be retained, resigned, traded, or cut. We will also discuss whether we need help in the draft, trades or free agency. The next position look to be another area we need help, DEFENSIVE LINE.

Currently on the roster we have:

Glenn Dorsey DE under contract $5.2 million cap hit
Allen Bailey DE under contract approx $2 million cap hit
Wallace Gilberry DE UFA
Kelly Gregg DT UFA
Tamba Hali DE under contract approx $12 million cap hit
Tyson Jackson DE under contract $2.5 million cap hit
Jerrell Powe DT under contract, unknown salary
Anthony Torbio DT under contact $405,000 cap hit
Brandon Bair DE unknown status

Dicky McElephant
01-09-2012, 12:54 PM
Give Gilberry a new contract.

Let Gregg walk.

Sign Paul Soliai (NT)

Chiefnj2
01-09-2012, 12:56 PM
Gilberry can stick around if he wants to lose weight and be a rush DE. He gained weight last season to try to be a 3 down player and was not as effective.

They have to find a NT. I'm sure Gregg will retire.

Rain Man
01-09-2012, 02:10 PM
I think if we sign or draft a nose tackle for competition we're good. Let everyone duke it out for depth chart status.

mdchiefsfan
01-09-2012, 02:15 PM
Give Gilberry a new contract.

Let Gregg walk.

Sign Paul Soliai (NT)

I would resign Gordon also. He was our Shaun Smith of 2011. Good depth and probably cheap.

Amnorix
01-09-2012, 02:19 PM
Glenn Dorsey DE under contract $5.2 million cap hit
Allen Bailey DE under contract approx $2 million cap hit
Wallace Gilberry DE UFA
Kelly Gregg DT UFA
Tamba Hali DE under contract approx $12 million cap hit
Tyson Jackson DE under contract $2.5 million cap hit
Jerrell Powe DT under contract, unknown salary
Anthony Torbio DT under contact $405,000 cap hit
Brandon Bair DE unknown status



Not that I'm going to participate in this exercise, but my assumption is that by "cap hit", you're stating the hit to the cap if the player is cut.

A bit more info is needed to help people, however. Is that the net effect of cutting the player, or the gross cap charge for cutting the player, in which cse it's overstating the "hit" relative to the amount the player would get anyway. Easiest fix is to state the player's salary for this year also.

For example, if Hali's salary this year is $10MM, but cutting him results in a cap hit of $12MM, then really all you need to know is "$10MM on the books WITH Hali, or $12MM WITHOUT Hali"

etc.


I remember on year the Pats cut someone and it was a significant "cap hit", but really it was net zero. The amount on the cap was going to be about $5MM either way, but the Patriots preferred to cut him and NOT have him (for $5MM on the cap) rather than keep him (for $5MM on the cap).

Anyway, carry on.

Sofa King
01-09-2012, 02:22 PM
Give Gilberry a new contract.

Let Gregg walk.

Sign Paul Soliai (NT)

Pretty much this.

NJChiefsFan
01-09-2012, 05:26 PM
Give Gilberry a new contract.

Let Gregg walk.

Sign Paul Soliai (NT)

I would resign Gordon also. He was our Shaun Smith of 2011. Good depth and probably cheap.

This is more than fine with me.

Fritz88
01-09-2012, 05:27 PM
I'd still make a move for Manning.

O.city
01-09-2012, 05:33 PM
Give Gilberry a new contract.

Let Gregg walk.

Sign Paul Soliai (NT)

This.

Draft some depth on the dline as well if you have to let Gilberry walk.

whoman69
01-09-2012, 09:39 PM
Gregg is dead man walking unless he wants to come back as a backup. I would see what kind of trade bait Dorsey can be with Bailey coming on. I think many will think Dorsey has more ability in a 4-3. I would look in round 2 for a NT.

O.city
01-09-2012, 10:28 PM
We suffer thru some of the worst seasons in Chiefs history, finally get some good players, and fans can't wait to trade them.

For fucks sake, Dorsey just finished his 4 year in the league and was one of the top ranked players at his position.

He does exactly what he was drafted to do, especially in the scheme he is playing in. Lets keep him around.

whoman69
01-09-2012, 10:34 PM
We suffer thru some of the worst seasons in Chiefs history, finally get some good players, and fans can't wait to trade them.

For ****s sake, Dorsey just finished his 4 year in the league and was one of the top ranked players at his position.

He does exactly what he was drafted to do, especially in the scheme he is playing in. Lets keep him around.

To me we have the young players to take over. We also have a big need of moving up and Dorsey could good trade bait. I would like to keep him as well, but his best value to the team may be in trade.

cdcox
01-10-2012, 02:17 AM
Gregg is dead man walking unless he wants to come back as a backup. I would see what kind of trade bait Dorsey can be with Bailey coming on. I think many will think Dorsey has more ability in a 4-3. I would look in round 2 for a NT.

I think you need to have lots of depth on the DL. More than any other position, you need to rotate those guys to keep them fresh. At DE, there are plenty of snaps for Jackson, Dorsey, Bailey and to a lesser extent Gilberry. Some of those guys can play inside on passing downs. The clearest need we have on the DL is a two-down run stopping NT. Maybe Powe can be that guy, or he can be depth at that position, in which case he would get a couple of hundred snaps a year. Other than that, our DL is fine. i wouldn't trade Dorsey because I don't think you'd get the value for him. We need six guys that can contribute at this position. I think we have four, and possibly five with Powe.

NJChiefsFan
01-10-2012, 02:27 AM
To me we have the young players to take over. We also have a big need of moving up and Dorsey could good trade bait. I would like to keep him as well, but his best value to the team may be in trade.

Players aren't even really used in the NFL. The picks are so highly valued, if a team needed another chip they would probably ask for another high pick and decline taking Dorsey.

jd1020
01-10-2012, 02:29 AM
I think you need to have lots of depth on the DL. More than any other position, you need to rotate those guys to keep them fresh. At DE, there are plenty of snaps for Jackson, Dorsey, Bailey and to a lesser extent Gilberry. Some of those guys can play inside on passing downs. The clearest need we have on the DL is a two-down run stopping NT. Maybe Powe can be that guy, or he can be depth at that position, in which case he would get a couple of hundred snaps a year. Other than that, our DL is fine. i wouldn't trade Dorsey because I don't think you'd get the value for him. We need six guys that can contribute at this position. I think we have four, and possibly five with Powe.

How much value do you put on Dorsey to claim we wouldn't get equal value for him? Are you still holding on to the fact that he was a top 5 pick?

NJChiefsFan
01-10-2012, 02:33 AM
How much value do you put on Dorsey to claim we wouldn't get equal value for him? Are you still holding on to the fact that he was a top 5 pick?

I don't know about him, but for me, I don't think teams every get value for actual players. Look at how many good players go for 3rd of 4ths. Then again Cassel went for a 2nd.

You don't see many DE's in 34 getting traded. I can't think of what the value would be. Are you guys talking about using him to go get Luck/RG3?

jd1020
01-10-2012, 02:36 AM
I don't know about him, but for me, I don't think teams every get value for actual players. Look at how many good players go for 3rd of 4ths. Then again Cassel went for a 2nd.

You don't see many DE's in 34 getting traded. I can't think of what the value would be. Are you guys talking about using him to go get Luck/RG3?

I'm not. I'm just wondering how much people think Dorsey is worth. A lot of people keep saying we wont get value for him. Well... We won't get value for him because he's been dogshit. Our DLine is solid against the run. The end. Dorsey, if I'm not mistaken, had 8 less run stops than Jackson and Jackson had much better production rushing the passer and he was terrible at rushing the passer, so that tells you something about Dorsey.

NJChiefsFan
01-10-2012, 02:41 AM
I'm not. I'm just wondering how much people think Dorsey is worth. A lot of people keep saying we wont get value for him. Well... We won't get value for him because he's been dogshit. Our DLine is solid against the run. The end. Dorsey, if I'm not mistaken, had 8 less run stops than Jackson and Jackson had much better production rushing the passer and he was terrible at rushing the passer, so that tells you something about Dorsey.

Well I don't think being worse than Jackson is that bad of a thing this season. That being said, Dorsey hasn't made the progress this season that he had the year before from what I saw. Then again, with such a crap season, I didn't watch the Directv shortcuts of the games like I usually do so my view of guys in positions like that is weaker than usual. I would like to see their PFW grades again if possible.

Just shooting blindly, I don't think any team views him highly enough to give up more than a 3rd for him. I really don't know what the market value is for a 34 DE.

cdcox
01-10-2012, 02:42 AM
How much value do you put on Dorsey to claim we wouldn't get equal value for him? Are you still holding on to the fact that he was a top 5 pick?

There is no way we would get any where close to a top 5 pick for him. I think any first round pick is a pipe dream. We could trade him for a non-first round draft pick that may or may not develop into a starter. To me, there is less than a 15% chance that the draft pick we would get for him would develop into a better player.

NJChiefsFan
01-10-2012, 02:43 AM
There is no way we would get any where close to a top 5 pick for him. I think any first round pick is a pipe dream. We could trade him for a non-first round draft pick that may or may not develop into a starter. To me, there is less than a 15% chance that the draft pick we would get for him would develop into a better player.

Yeah I don't think trading him makes any sense at all unless its with other picks to move up to get a real QB. Trading him by himself doesn't get you that much, and not enough IMO.

jd1020
01-10-2012, 02:54 AM
There is no way we would get any where close to a top 5 pick for him. I think any first round pick is a pipe dream. We could trade him for a non-first round draft pick that may or may not develop into a starter. To me, there is less than a 15% chance that the draft pick we would get for him would develop into a better player.

If Dorsey could get us a 2nd or 3rd and put us in a position to draft a player like Billy Winn with our 2nd round pick I would do it without hesitating.

OzarksChiefsFan
01-10-2012, 03:04 AM
I'm not. I'm just wondering how much people think Dorsey is worth. A lot of people keep saying we wont get value for him. Well... We won't get value for him because he's been dogshit. Our DLine is solid against the run. The end. Dorsey, if I'm not mistaken, had 8 less run stops than Jackson and Jackson had much better production rushing the passer and he was terrible at rushing the passer, so that tells you something about Dorsey.

Dude you are so full of it. Obviously you don't pay attention to defensive line play. Check Dorsey's stats against other 3/4 DEs, he's doing a good job. In fact Denver said they ran at Jackson to avoid Dorsey. Dude was 4th among DEs in tackles Jackson was tenth. He draws double teams Jackson rarely does. Why don't you learn some football before you open your mouth?

jd1020
01-10-2012, 03:14 AM
Dude you are so full of it. Obviously you don't pay attention to defensive line play. Check Dorsey's stats against other 3/4 DEs, he's doing a good job. In fact Denver said they ran at Jackson to avoid Dorsey. Dude was 4th among DEs in tackles Jackson was tenth. He draws double teams Jackson rarely does. Why don't you learn some football before you open your mouth?

Dorsey had a few more tackles? Big whoop. He was worse than Jackson in run stops and pass rushing.

Top 5 3-4 DE grades: +47.5, 33.1, 30.6, 26.6,26.3

Jackson: +7.3

Dorsey: +5.2

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-10-2012, 08:01 AM
Gregg is dead man walking unless he wants to come back as a backup. I would see what kind of trade bait Dorsey can be with Bailey coming on. I think many will think Dorsey has more ability in a 4-3. I would look in round 2 for a NT.

:facepalm: Not this shit again....

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-10-2012, 08:03 AM
If Dorsey could get us a 2nd or 3rd and put us in a position to draft a player like Billy Winn with our 2nd round pick I would do it without hesitating.

You guys are batshit fucking crazy. Heeeeeeerppp Trade all our guys for 2nds and 3rds that have a 50 percent plus bust rate. Trade Bowe, trade Carr, trade Dorsey or move him to nose, move Albert to guard Deeeeeeeerppppppppp

jd1020
01-10-2012, 08:19 AM
You guys are batshit ****ing crazy. Heeeeeeerppp Trade all our guys for 2nds and 3rds that have a 50 percent plus bust rate. Trade Bowe, trade Carr, trade Dorsey or move him to nose, move Albert to guard Deeeeeeeerppppppppp

I agree. We should really hang on to a 4-3 DT who has regressed to worse than Tyson Jackson as a 3-4 DE. It's a much better idea to let him walk in free agency.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-10-2012, 08:25 AM
I agree. We should really hang on to a 4-3 DT who has regressed to worse than Tyson Jackson as a 3-4 DE. It's a much better idea to let him walk in free agency.

...except that Dorsey is an elite run defender in the 3-4. How many times must we go over this?

The Chiefs have a very nice rotation at DE, I doubt they are looking for changes and I can't blame them.

jd1020
01-10-2012, 08:32 AM
...except that Dorsey is an elite run defender in the 3-4. How many times must we go over this?

The Chiefs have a very nice rotation at DE, I doubt they are looking for changes and I can't blame them.

An elite run defender that can't get any kind of push when the majority of the time he's not eating any kind of double team, aka... not doing his job.

SIGN HIM TO AN EXTENSION NOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW!

Dorsey rushed the passer on 200 some odd plays. He hit the QB 2 times and pressured the QB 2 times. GO DORSEY, GO, GO, GO DORSEY!!

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-10-2012, 08:40 AM
An elite run defender that can't get any kind of push when the majority of the time he's not eating any kind of double team, aka... not doing his job.

SIGN HIM TO AN EXTENSION NOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW!

Dorsey rushed the passer on 200 some odd plays. He hit the QB 2 times and pressured the QB 2 times. GO DORSEY, GO, GO, GO DORSEY!!

Chiefs gave up 14 points a game and had 20 sacks the last 6 games, both top 2 in the NFL. It's safe to say, he's doing the job they want him to do and doing it well. Sorry, that you need to buy a clue to see that.

jd1020
01-10-2012, 08:42 AM
Chiefs gave up 14 points a game and had 20 sacks the last 6 games, both top 2 in the NFL. It's safe to say, he's doing the job they want him to do and doing it well. Sorry, that you need to buy a clue to see that.

No, he's not. His job is to demand double teams. which he doesn't. Sorry you have no clue wtf you are talking about and would rather hang on to a terrible 3-4 DE instead of trading him to a 4-3 team and get one of the top rated NFL 3-4 DE's in this years draft.

Dorsey isn't a FA after next season or anything. Being one of the worst parts of our DLine is clearly reason enough to hold onto him for the final year of his contract and watch him walk off into the sunset.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-10-2012, 08:45 AM
No, he's not. His job is to demand double teams. which he doesn't. Sorry you have no clue wtf you are talking about and would rather hang on to a terrible 3-4 DE instead of trading him to a 4-3 team and get one of the top rated NFL 3-4 DE's in this years draft.

Dorsey isn't a FA after next season or anything. Being one of the worst parts of our DLine is clearly reason enough to hold onto him for the final year of his contract and watch him walk off into the sunset.

:facepalm: That's all that I have left to say.

jd1020
01-10-2012, 08:46 AM
:facepalm: That's all that I have left to say.

Sounds like someone with nothing to say trying to act like they have something to say.

jd1020
01-10-2012, 09:02 AM
Chiefs gave up 14 points a game and had 20 sacks the last 6 games, both top 2 in the NFL. It's safe to say, he's doing the job they want him to do and doing it well. Sorry, that you need to buy a clue to see that.

The Chiefs were tied for 27th in sacks and 7th worst in rush D.

The 20 sacks came from the improved play of Houston. Houston had more sacks than Hali in those 6 games (all of his sacks).

Jackson
Bailey
Gordon
Gillberry

All accumulated a sack in those final 6 games of yours.

whoman69
01-10-2012, 10:46 AM
I think most here misunderstood when I said to trade him. I don't see him as leverage to get extra early-mid round picks. Most here have said we need to do to move up in this draft. IMO Dorsey brings more value to a team that would like to use him as a 4-3 DT like he was in college. He is a run stopper and teams don't expect as many sacks from a DT. In a 3-4 system he is half a player. Teams aren't always going to run the ball on first and second down when we are in our base defense. He is near worthless in pass rush. If we can package him with picks to move up in the draft it does two things. It costs us less picks and gets us that QB everyone is dreaming about. He is still young and would give a lot of value to a team that perhaps isn't in the QB sweepstakes, especially if they don't have eyes on someone that is going to go top ten.

O.city
01-10-2012, 10:49 AM
I'd like to see us employ a little more fronts like we did against Denver, where we had Dorsey attacking the backfield more.

Chiefnj2
01-10-2012, 10:54 AM
I love how PFF has become the be-all-end-all of football debates. He has a bad PFF grade, he sucks.

jd1020
01-10-2012, 10:57 AM
I love how PFF has become the be-all-end-all of football debates. He has a bad PFF grade, he sucks.

Watch the games champ. He isn't a good 3-4 DE. He gets virtually no pressure. He doesn't command a double team and in 200+ pass rush attempts he only managed to "scare" the QB 4 times. It's a joke. I would rather go with Bailey next season. His run D improved through the season and he is infinitely the better pass rusher.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-10-2012, 01:10 PM
The Chiefs were tied for 27th in sacks and 7th worst in rush D.

The 20 sacks came from the improved play of Houston. Houston had more sacks than Hali in those 6 games (all of his sacks).

Jackson
Bailey
Gordon
Gillberry

All accumulated a sack in those final 6 games of yours.

:banghead: You're like talking to a child. His role is to defend the run and free up other players to get those sacks. HE'S NOT A PASS RUSHER.

Players play to there roles and you have a successful defense.

jd1020
01-10-2012, 04:25 PM
:banghead: You're like talking to a child. His role is to defend the run and free up other players to get those sacks. HE'S NOT A PASS RUSHER.

Players play to there roles and you have a successful defense.

Who is he freeing up you half wit?

whoman69
01-10-2012, 05:21 PM
:banghead: You're like talking to a child. His role is to defend the run and free up other players to get those sacks. HE'S NOT A PASS RUSHER.

Players play to there roles and you have a successful defense.

He may not be a pass rusher, but there is no guarantee that the other team won't throw the ball with him on the field, as evidenced by the 200 times he was in a pass rush situation this year. He's next to useless on passing downs.

O.city
01-10-2012, 07:36 PM
Who is he freeing up you half wit?

Tamba?

jd1020
01-10-2012, 08:08 PM
Tamba?

How is he freeing up Tamba when there's only 1 person needed to block Dorsey and make him non existent?

BigChiefFan
01-10-2012, 11:37 PM
Why take a cap hit on any player signed?

Short of parlaying a player in a trade up for Luck, no way we trade a player with a cap implicaton-that's not the way the NFL works, especially under Chiefs ownership.

Re-sign Gilberry. Re-sign Gregg. Still attempt to add players on the D-Line, where ever we can.

Pasta Giant Meatball
01-11-2012, 10:00 AM
Who is he freeing up you half wit?

:LOL: You're the moron wanting to get rid of Dorsey due to your inferior football knowledge. I'd imagine Tamba and Houston would give him plenty of props for doing the dirty work.