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unlurking
01-15-2012, 11:02 AM
I think the Haley stuff was hilarious because it's a bit paranoid. But that said, there are people in this organization that came from a place where they did pretty much anything to get information, including taping practices. And McDaniels still did it when he went to Denver. I wouldn't find it hard to believe they are a bit fanatical about this stuff. If you know you can do it to other organizations, you probably become paranoid about it happening to you.
Oh, agreed. The discussion about blacking out the view of the practice field from office windows had me chuckling. I can't blame them for that in the least, and as you say, it didn't seem to be enough against McDaniels! I don't fault him for stuff like that at all. Plays and communications are similar to proprietary trade secrets in the corporate world.

unlurking
01-15-2012, 11:11 AM
Get real it is legal to tap business owned phones. Has been done for years and has held up in court. Most business' do it.
Re-read the article, then check the legal requirements again.

As I stated earlier, one party MUST be informed that their conversations are being recorded. Businesses that do so inform their employees in writing and 99% of the time require an employee to sign a statement that they have been notified of this fact. It is illegal to monitor conversations without either party being informed.

The article clearly states that Haley thinks his personal cell phone is being monitored. It also states that the Chiefs have denied that they are monitoring phone calls.

Obviously the Chiefs cannot legally record Haley's personal cell phone, and if the Chiefs denied they were recording office phones somebody would have claimed that they signed an ROB acknowledging the fact that their calls were being recorded.

EDIT:
I can see where I might have been unclear in the previous post you quoted. I should have stated explicitly in that post (as I did in follow ups), that it is is illegal to record conversations without at least one party consent. The comments about people "fearing" they were being recorded in the article means that they obviously were not. By law they would have to be informed of that fact. Since they didn't know if they were being recorded, it stands to reason that they were not. Unless you believe the Chiefs were willing to commit federal crimes.

luv
01-15-2012, 11:11 AM
I've been through a change in management where I used to work, and this same thing happened. You adapt to the new regime, or that's not the place for you.

Peterson was one who let the press in on everything. Pioli is not like that. Sounds to me like their digging and making a normal management change sound like a big deal. It was the same thing being said over and over, like they were trying to drive a point home. I lost interest reading halfway through.

Extra Point
01-15-2012, 11:17 AM
Carl Peterson wasn't the transparent guy painted in this article. He was a haggler who screwed up John Tait's presence here, let go of T-Rich, when we could have kept him for a song, and had his share of difficulties with the local press.

I don't miss the 5-Year Plan, I do miss putting up points.

FringeNC
01-15-2012, 11:21 AM
Does this cloak and dagger stuff work in the NFL? As long as employees are notified ahead of time that privacy doesn't exist at Arrowhead, I have no problem with it. (Now, of course, if Haley's mobile phone was hacked.....)

I'm just not sure this is the way to build a dynasty in the NFL. Having a franchise QB in combination with a franchise coach is the only way it is really done anymore.

I do think Pioli seems like a really strange guy, and probably not very likable. I could give a fuck if wins though. Thus far, there are two defining events of the Pioli era, and neither of them is has to do with the winning: His fixation with Matt Cassel and his weird estrangement from his head coach, two events that might not be unrelated.

If he delivers a franchise QB, none of this stuff will matter, and Pioli will just be viewed as being an eccentric, driven guy.

chief52
01-15-2012, 11:24 AM
Re-read the article, then check the legal requirements again.

As I stated earlier, one party MUST be informed that their conversations are being recorded. Businesses that do so inform their employees in writing and 99% of the time require an employee to sign a statement that they have been notified of this fact. It is illegal to monitor conversations without either party being informed.

The article clearly states that Haley thinks his personal cell phone is being monitored. It also states that the Chiefs have denied that they are monitoring phone calls.

Obviously the Chiefs cannot legally record Haley's personal cell phone, and if the Chiefs denied they were recording office phones somebody would have claimed that they signed an ROB acknowledging the fact that their calls were being recorded.

EDIT:
I can see where I might have been unclear in the previous post you quoted. I should have stated explicitly in that post (as I did in follow ups), that it is is illegal to record conversations without at least one party consent. The comments about people "fearing" they were being recorded in the article means that they obviously were not. By law they would have to be informed of that fact. Since they didn't know if they were being recorded, it stands to reason that they were not. Unless you believe the Chiefs were willing to commit federal crimes.

I do not know the law, but I know my conversations on the work phone are recorded and I have never signed anything. We all just know it is recorded I guess, but there has never been paper work or an explanation of it. We can hear a beep periodically when we talk. Yes, the conversations have been pulled back up.

Count Zarth
01-15-2012, 11:24 AM
Does this cloak and dagger stuff work in the NFL?

Yes, if Tom Brady is the one keeping all the secrets.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 11:34 AM
Wouldn't it speak even more volumes if it was pioli that did the interviews and not the employees? If it was a big deal like the article states it is, then employees would not be made available.
Posted via Mobile Device

It would be hard to believe that those current employees weren't rigorously coached. I don't take much stock in what they have to say.

Okie_Apparition
01-15-2012, 11:34 AM
I could care less, If I tried

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 11:36 AM
I could care less, If I tried

So it doesn't bother you that Arrowhead is building a reputation for being a horrible place to work, which could very much limit the quality of the front office and coaching staff working for the team we cheer for?

KCrockaholic
01-15-2012, 11:38 AM
I could care less, If I tried

Yes, you could care less if you tried.

Okie_Apparition
01-15-2012, 11:38 AM
Bob Gretz was paid to run his site by Carl Peterson...
Give that some thought

Brock
01-15-2012, 11:40 AM
Haley will be a HC in 2 years.

LMAO

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 11:41 AM
i see a lot of words with almost zero proof of anything at all.

employee turnover after a long tenured GM is gone? No duh.

tension about getting fired after said GM change? No duh.

Pioli is overdoing the micromanaging in his first GM job away from Belichek? no suprise, he's insecure and trying to prove himself.

Haley is a paranoid maniac? no doubt. On a side note Haley has worked with him before. He shouldn't be surprised.

Pioli yelled at someone for parking in his spot? He's sort of a dick ... so?!?

stonedstooge
01-15-2012, 11:41 AM
Bob Gretz was paid to run his site by Carl Peterson...
Give that some thought

Who is Piolis snitch on CP? I'm sure he has one

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 11:41 AM
Lot of exaggeration and hyperbole here. First off, there's no way the Chiefs could legally tap any phones in the office, let alone personal cell phones. All they can do is check logs, which include the numbers and dates/times on the office phones. It's not legal to secretly record conversations in the building either. Of course they can read company email and track internet usage as well. This happens (or can happen) in most of corporate America, so why would an NFL team be any different?

I'm not saying Pioli/Hunt aren't mad scientist, evil whack-job, Nazis. I'm just saying that this article doesn't have enough legitimate information in it that can't be argues away as he said/she said or disgruntled employee complaints. Pioli sounds like a micro-managing asshole who I'd never want to work for, but I've known people like that to do some amazing things. Although they usually burn out quickly.

I'm sure what they did was within legal bounds, probably a few areas where they stretched that. Sometimes maybe a little too far (e.g. they knew Spygate was wrong years ago, but did it anyway). But yeah, they probably operated with the law in mind.

The problem isn't whether they operated within legal boundaries. The problem is that they've extended their power in ways very few organizations do. This is the first I've ever heard of that kind of abuse of workplace privacy. Most companies will monitor e-mails and internet usage, but only raise an issue if there is a major red flag. They let a lot of things slide.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 11:43 AM
I'm sure what they did was within legal bounds, probably a few areas where they stretched that. Sometimes maybe a little too far (e.g. they knew Spygate was wrong years ago, but did it anyway). But yeah, they probably operated with the law in mind.

The problem isn't whether they operated within legal boundaries. The problem is that they've extended their power in ways very few organizations do. This is the first I've ever heard of that kind of abuse of workplace privacy. Most companies will monitor e-mails and internet usage, but only raise an issue if there is a major red flag. They let a lot of things slide.
only problem is that you have no idea/proof that they have done anything

KCChiefsFan88
01-15-2012, 11:47 AM
Here is the bottom line for the homers on this board rushing to Fat Scott's defense...

The Chiefs WINS/LOSSES record under Fat Scott is a mediocre 21-28 in 3 seasons, including 0-1 in the playoffs. His first head coaching hire in KC has already been a failure. His biggest addition to the franchise, Cassel, has been a disaster.

Based on the level of accountability Clark is apparently holding everyone else in the franchise to, why does Clark still claim that he believes in Fat Scott?

Answer: Clark is a dickless piece of garbage who doesn't care about winning.

That is the bottom line.

notorious
01-15-2012, 11:48 AM
Here is the bottom line for the homers on this board rushing to Fat Scott's defense...

The Chiefs WINS/LOSSES record under Fat Scott is a mediocre 21-28 in 3 seasons, including 0-1 in the playoffs. His first head coaching hire in KC has already been a failure. His biggest addition to the franchise, Cassel, has been a disaster.

Based on the level of accountability Clark is apparently holding everyone else in the franchise to, why does Clark still claim that he believes in Fat Scott?

Answer: Clark is a dickless piece of garbage who doesn't care about winning.

That is the bottom line.

Really can't argue with this.

DRU
01-15-2012, 11:48 AM
So it doesn't bother you that Arrowhead is building a reputation for being a horrible place to work, which could very much limit the quality of the front office and coaching staff working for the team we cheer for?

This story could have been spun in any direction. He's got just as many people saying there's nothing to this as he does people griping about it, but he chose to focus on the negative interviews so that he'd actually have a story. Otherwise, what would he have had other than what it is: people fired, therefore upset, and plenty of others still working and just fine with it. Hmmm...not much of a story there.

Anybody that takes the media's word about this sort of thing and uses it to base important decisions about their own life probably isn't somebody we'd want here in the first place.

Okie_Apparition
01-15-2012, 11:51 AM
Gretz's site went up after Carl was fired, correct

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 11:52 AM
only problem is that you have no idea/proof that they have done anything

Babb did a very good job of multi-sourcing. It's not like he just asked one person and went at their word. No, we don't have any idea/proof, but you'd have to be nuts to believe that the pattern doesn't suggest that there is some really weird shit going on.

O.city
01-15-2012, 11:53 AM
I've read thru all the posts on this OP, good arguments put up by both sides.

In all honesty its probably a little of both. People pissed at getting fired, Pioli is a micromanager.

notorious
01-15-2012, 11:54 AM
This story could have been spun in any direction. He's got just as many people saying there's nothing to this as he does people griping about it, but he chose to focus on the negative interviews so that he'd actually have a story. Otherwise, what would he have had other than what it is: people fired, therefore upset, and plenty of others still working and just fine with it. Hmmm...not much of a story there.

Anybody that takes the media's word about this sort of thing and uses it to base important decisions about their own life probably isn't somebody we'd want here in the first place.

This.

It sounds like they interviewed the "entitled" employees. Everybody works with entitled employees, and we all know that the piss and moan about everything.

It's the bosses way or the highway. I just wish that Pioli would extend his iron hand to Cassel.

Brock
01-15-2012, 11:55 AM
Babb did a very good job of multi-sourcing. It's not like he just asked one person and went at their word. No, we don't have any idea/proof, but you'd have to be nuts to believe that the pattern doesn't suggest that there is some really weird shit going on.

Yeah, let me talk to a bunch of fired employees. That's a wide array of people, isn't it?

DonkyPuncher
01-15-2012, 11:58 AM
I could care less, If I tried

Right? F**K all this nonsense give us a football team that wins!!!!! Make me GM I will give you all a qb that can produce and if he couldn't I would fix it, gum wrapper please..... WHO CARES

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 11:58 AM
This story could have been spun in any direction. He's got just as many people saying there's nothing to this as he does people griping about it, but he chose to focus on the negative interviews so that he'd actually have a story. Otherwise, what would he have had other than what it is: people fired, therefore upset, and plenty of others still working and just fine with it. Hmmm...not much of a story there.

Anybody that takes the media's word about this sort of thing and uses it to base important decisions about their own life probably isn't somebody we'd want here in the first place.

While you have to balance out the fact that these disgruntled employees are going to be very upset, on the flip side, you don't seriously expect that current employees are going to talk badly about the organization, especially when they're being directly quoted and especially given the allegation that they closely monitor what people are saying, do you?

There is most definitely a story here. It's not just people talking about an organization they hate. They seem to be pointing out very real examples and systematic stuff that are complete head-scratchers. It's the systematic stuff that worries me most, because those aren't isolated incidents.

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-15-2012, 11:59 AM
Here is the bottom line for the homers on this board rushing to Fat Scott's defense...

The Chiefs WINS/LOSSES record under Fat Scott is a mediocre 21-28 in 3 seasons, including 0-1 in the playoffs. His first head coaching hire in KC has already been a failure. His biggest addition to the franchise, Cassel, has been a disaster.

Based on the level of accountability Clark is apparently holding everyone else in the franchise to, why does Clark still claim that he believes in Fat Scott?

Answer: Clark is a dickless piece of garbage who doesn't care about winning.

That is the bottom line.


cause he makes him mad money

notorious
01-15-2012, 12:00 PM
cause he makes him mad money

This.


The fans are angry, hence mad money.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 12:01 PM
Yeah, let me talk to a bunch of fired employees. That's a wide array of people, isn't it?

He spoke with fired employees and current employees and gave every single person from the top-down, it appears, a chance to represent their side of the story. Mark Donovan, one side of the story, had a ton of opportunity to fairly defend himself. Pioli chose not to, and I personally think that is laughable.

I thought it was a very well sourced story.

DRU
01-15-2012, 12:03 PM
Babb did a very good job of multi-sourcing. It's not like he just asked one person and went at their word. No, we don't have any idea/proof, but you'd have to be nuts to believe that the pattern doesn't suggest that there is some really weird shit going on.

He interviewed just as many that said this was nothing. He just chose not to focus on those guys.

Some of you may follow UFC. Whether you do or not, there's an interesting thing going on there right now that is on the same subject here.

To keep it short, ESPN wrote an article trashing the UFC for underpaying their fighters. They did an interview with the 1 fighter they could find that wanted to trash the UFC, and they also did an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta, one of the owners of the UFC, and they're using that interview, edited to their own liking, to prove some of their points.

Dana White, the president of the UFC, is pissed about it, and has stated that he's going to use the same exact interview footage (since they had their cameras there, too) to create an edited version of the same video to make it look like the UFC is doing everything great and fighters couldn't be happier. Then he's going to show the entire, unedited interview, to show just exactly how easy it is to spin details and create stories.

I think it's going to be interesting.

Another example...I worked for a small business a few years ago that got raided by the FBI because they thought the company was selling counterfeit product. News crews were there and it was the first time I'd had a first hand experience with the media. They interviewed me and other employees, but we didn't have much to give them because there really wasn't much of a story.

Then I watched the news that night and they completely spun everything we had said in a direction that could not have been more incorrect. EVERYTHING they said on the news about the situation was completely wrong. It was shocking to me how badly they presented the information.

If you don't trust Pioli, fine. I don't like Cassel either. But to trust the media and base your own thoughts and decisions on them is just...well...let's say you'll be leading a very blissful life.

Rexx
01-15-2012, 12:03 PM
Regardless of how much of this article is true, it still paints a bad picture of Pioli and the organization as a whole. When you are trying to recruit coaches, this is not something you want out there. Pioli is slowing painting himself into a corner, one that he likely won't get out of. The best thing he could do to slow the mounting pressure from fans and media is get another QB! Otherwise, I dont see this ending well for him unless Clark is blind to the obvious...which is definitely a possibility.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 12:08 PM
Babb did a very good job of multi-sourcing. It's not like he just asked one person and went at their word. No, we don't have any idea/proof, but you'd have to be nuts to believe that the pattern doesn't suggest that there is some really weird shit going on.
Nobody he talked to had ANY proof at all.

This article might as well have been called 'Arrowhead Watercooler talk'

only the electronic surveillance rumor means anything at all and it's completely unproven.

IF ... Haley really thought his cellphone had been tapped it would of been pretty easy to go somewhere and have it checked. I imagine even a tech at a local phone shop could open it up and check it to see if a component had been added to the inside. Hell, he could just keep the sim chip and exchange the phone to a different model if he was that concerned.

If Haley thought it was actually his phone # line was really tapped then i'm sure the FBI would just love to know about a company making illegal wire taps on their own.

You honestly think the chiefs are going to risk going to federal prison just to hear what that moron Todd Haley has to say to his wife?

Okie_Apparition
01-15-2012, 12:08 PM
THe part that should bother fans, IMO
Is that they may isolate themselves from outside thinking
inbreeding minds have extra limbs

NJChiefsFan
01-15-2012, 12:08 PM
Yes, you could care less if you tried.

Haha, indeed.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 12:10 PM
He interviewed just as many that said this was nothing. He just chose not to focus on those guys.

Some of you may follow UFC. Whether you do or not, there's an interesting thing going on there right now that is on the same subject here.

To keep it short, ESPN wrote an article trashing the UFC for underpaying their fighters. They did an interview with the 1 fighter they could find that wanted to trash the UFC, and they also did an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta, one of the owners of the UFC, and they're using that interview, edited to their own liking, to prove some of their points.

Dana White, the president of the UFC, is pissed about it, and has stated that he's going to use the same exact interview footage (since they had their cameras there, too) to create an edited version of the same video to make it look like the UFC is doing everything great and fighters couldn't be happier. Then he's going to show the entire, unedited interview, to show just exactly how easy it is to spin details and create stories.

I think it's going to be interesting.

Another example...I worked for a small business a few years ago that got raided by the FBI because they thought the company was selling counterfeit product. News crews were there and it was the first time I experienced a first hand experience with the media. They interviewed me and other employees.

Then I watched the news that night and they completely spun everything we had said in a direction that could not have been more incorrect. EVERYTHING they said on the news about the situation was completely wrong. It was shocking to me how badly they presented the information.

If you don't trust Pioli, fine. I don't like Cassel either. But to trust the media and base your own thoughts and decisions on them is just...well...let's say you'll be leading a very blissful life.

This wasn't an expose. I've worked with PR departments very closely before and have seen them before. In those situations, we had our PR group reach out to the media guy and they refused to talk to us. This, on the other hand, was a thoughtful piece and Mark Donovan had a ton of air time and a chance to address almost every allegation. And Babb also included former employees (that he was actually allowed to interview) and even people from departments like HR. Don't paint this as some kind of one-sided puff piece.

The reason why the story is weighted more heavily toward the negative is because Scott Pioli chose not to speak to Babb. Anyone who's been in PR knows that "no comment" is about the worst thing you can do if you're trying to save face. The problem is, I think Pioli is way too egotistical to understand PR. He's under the mentality that I have one way of doing things and if you don't like it, fuck you.

Count Zarth
01-15-2012, 12:12 PM
Regardless of how much of this article is true, it still paints a bad picture of Pioli and the organization as a whole.

There is way too much negative press around Pioli and this regime since he was hired. First it was Whitlock, then last year we had the whole blowup with the Weis/Haley divorce (and Pioli had a huge hand in that, because he forced Weis on Haley), and now Babb drops this bomb.

You can say "hey, it's because the media is so mad!!!" but they trashed the hell out of Carl Peterson and there was tons of access during his twilight years. They gave Athan practically unfettered access to Herm Edwards.

Too much negativity for my tastes. The franchise has major issues that appear to present a terrible working environment.

unlurking
01-15-2012, 12:13 PM
I do not know the law, but I know my conversations on the work phone are recorded and I have never signed anything. We all just know it is recorded I guess, but there has never been paper work or an explanation of it. We can hear a beep periodically when we talk. Yes, the conversations have been pulled back up.
That's why I said 99%. Most companies require you to sign an acknowledgement to protect themselves legally so an employee can't come back and claim they were never informed.

Messier
01-15-2012, 12:14 PM
The accusations that the organization doesn't care about winning, only making money have been floated for years. They don't make sense. They were wrong when people were saying it about Peterson, and they're wrong now. If you believe Pioli has a huge ego, then you'd have to believe he wants to win more than anything else. Nothing would feed his ego more than winning a super bowl and rubbing it Belichicks face that he can do it on his own.

The reason is screwed up, but the desire is just as strong as wanting it for the fans, or anything else.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 12:15 PM
Pioli had a huge hand in that, because he forced Weis on Haley)link?

Count Zarth
01-15-2012, 12:15 PM
link?

What, you think Haley hired Weis?

DRU
01-15-2012, 12:16 PM
This wasn't an expose. I've worked with PR departments very closely before and have seen them before. In those situations, we had our PR group reach out to the media guy and they refused to talk to us. This, on the other hand, was a thoughtful piece and Mark Donovan had a ton of air time and a chance to address almost every allegation. And Babb also included former employees (that he was actually allowed to interview) and even people from departments like HR. Don't paint this as some kind of one-sided puff piece.

The reason why the story is weighted more heavily toward the negative is because Scott Pioli chose not to speak to Babb. Anyone who's been in PR knows that "no comment" is about the worst thing you can do if you're trying to save face. The problem is, I think Pioli is way too egotistical to understand PR. He's under the mentality that I have one way of doing things and if you don't like it, **** you.

I guarantee you somebody in the media could have taken all of the exact same information and turned it into a story about how great Pioli is and how we good of a job he's done turning this organization around if they wanted to.

They go to school for it, and they learn a lot more about how to do it once they've got a job in the field. They're very good at spinning details one way or another. It happens every day on any media outlet you ever watch, read, or listen to.

Babb is just stirring up shit because he doesn't like Pioli (probably because he won't do interviews with him), and he's done a great job of it.

Messier
01-15-2012, 12:18 PM
He interviewed just as many that said this was nothing. He just chose not to focus on those guys.

Some of you may follow UFC. Whether you do or not, there's an interesting thing going on there right now that is on the same subject here.

To keep it short, ESPN wrote an article trashing the UFC for underpaying their fighters. They did an interview with the 1 fighter they could find that wanted to trash the UFC, and they also did an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta, one of the owners of the UFC, and they're using that interview, edited to their own liking, to prove some of their points.

Dana White, the president of the UFC, is pissed about it, and has stated that he's going to use the same exact interview footage (since they had their cameras there, too) to create an edited version of the same video to make it look like the UFC is doing everything great and fighters couldn't be happier. Then he's going to show the entire, unedited interview, to show just exactly how easy it is to spin details and create stories.

I think it's going to be interesting.

Another example...I worked for a small business a few years ago that got raided by the FBI because they thought the company was selling counterfeit product. News crews were there and it was the first time I'd had a first hand experience with the media. They interviewed me and other employees, but we didn't have much to give them because there really wasn't much of a story.

Then I watched the news that night and they completely spun everything we had said in a direction that could not have been more incorrect. EVERYTHING they said on the news about the situation was completely wrong. It was shocking to me how badly they presented the information.

If you don't trust Pioli, fine. I don't like Cassel either. But to trust the media and base your own thoughts and decisions on them is just...well...let's say you'll be leading a very blissful life.

This!

unlurking
01-15-2012, 12:19 PM
Regardless of how much of this article is true, it still paints a bad picture of Pioli and the organization as a whole. When you are trying to recruit coaches, this is not something you want out there. Pioli is slowing painting himself into a corner, one that he likely won't get out of. The best thing he could do to slow the mounting pressure from fans and media is get another QB! Otherwise, I dont see this ending well for him unless Clark is blind to the obvious...which is definitely a possibility.
Agreed. Dismissing the the complaints from previous employees, it's still obvious that Pioli is a serious micro-manager. This is great when you have staff that need to be directed in everything they do, but most competent folks who are good in their fields don't like to work for people like this.

Then again, this may be mostly on the operations side and he may treat the football side completely differently.

OnTheWarpath58
01-15-2012, 12:20 PM
So while our GM is worried about candy wrappers and the price of coffee, this franchise has won 21 games in 3 years. Blinds closed, phones tapped - how about focusing on things that impact what happens between the white lines on Sundays? And we thought Peterson had a huge ego...

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 12:23 PM
What, you think Haley hired Weis?
just wanting to know where the proof is that Pioli forced anyone on Haley.

If Pioli was forcing Haley then why did he let Haley do something stupid like fire Gailey 2 weeks before the season started? If he didn't force Haley not to do that stupid shit then why would he force a OC on Haley at all?

If Pioli was forcing Haley then how in the hell did Muir end up as OC? That sure as hell wasn't a Pioli idea.

Bunch of made-up bullshit floating around here when in reality we have no idea what's true.

Haley isn't a victim ... he screwed up his own bed and had to sleep in it.

GloryDayz
01-15-2012, 12:26 PM
The absolute best thing that could happen for this franchise would be for the Hunt family to sell to a group of local business people who live in the city and care not only about WINNING football but the community.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REP FOR YOU PAL!!!!

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 12:35 PM
Nobody he talked to had ANY proof at all.

This article might as well have been called 'Arrowhead Watercooler talk'

only the electronic surveillance rumor means anything at all and it's completely unproven.

IF ... Haley really thought his cellphone had been tapped it would of been pretty easy to go somewhere and have it checked. I imagine even a tech at a local phone shop could open it up and check it to see if a component had been added to the inside. Hell, he could just keep the sim chip and exchange the phone to a different model if he was that concerned.

If Haley thought it was actually his phone # line was really tapped then i'm sure the FBI would just love to know about a company making illegal wire taps on their own.

You honestly think the chiefs are going to risk going to federal prison just to hear what that moron Todd Haley has to say to his wife?

Wow, so we should throw out any case where there is strong eyewitness testimony? You know... because we're relying on people's word. Again, you don't look at these as facts. You look at them as patterns. And there is a lot of both in this article and everything we already know.

I don't think anyone really believes Haley's cell phone was tampered with. The problem was that the organization drove him to that level of paranoia. I imagine that paranoia stemmed from him wondering how private information became discovered. What's the pattern? We know that the Chiefs were so invasive of his private life that they were calling in radio shows leaking out that Haley was going to a Lil Wayne concert and having pizza with his family. We saw multiple sources claiming that office phone, e-mail, and internet records were not just monitored, but heavily monitored. We heard a story about Denny Thum having months of phone records scrutinized. We know that Pioli has invaded people's privacy in the past. The pattern suggests that this paranoia is very real, that their communications within Arrowhead are not only heavily monitored, but acted upon. And by the way, he's the one who built the culture around Spygate--you don't think that is a pretty damning piece of evidence that this organization might go beyond the lengths of what is ethical to invade associates' privacy? Again, there is a lot of legal area for companies to invade your privacy by monitoring communications. But this is the first I've heard of a company building a system around stretching every boundary they can.

What patterns do we see of a systematic problem? We heard a story that lots of people are denied access to certain floors (I doubt that's made up). We've heard a heavy pattern of stories in this article and multiple others that seem to show that Pioli most definitely has a big ego (the courier van, the temperature of his office, calling him by his first name--that's not details, that's just pettiness). The claim that the Chiefs all draw their shades down is very real... you can have an opinion, if you choose, as to whether that's good or bad. Same with the gum wrapper--that was very real. The fact that co-workers from different departments have to go to great lengths to hide the fact that they're going to lunch together... that appears to be true too.

And, again... I can guarantee that the age discrimination is only going to make this whole thing worse.

GloryDayz
01-15-2012, 12:41 PM
Some employees bitch, some adapt.


The employees that bitch usually blow things out of proportion.


But, for the life of me, I can not figure out that if Pioli has such an eye for detail, how can he be blind when it comes to Cassel?

Simple, he's on trash detail in the stairwells. Perhaps his blinds are closed too. More likely, he just stupid too. Unlike NE, he doesn't have BB to run the players... He may have been an ass there too, but he had a coach who was better at his job than Pioli was at being an ass, so he just let him be.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 12:45 PM
I guarantee you somebody in the media could have taken all of the exact same information and turned it into a story about how great Pioli is and how we good of a job he's done turning this organization around if they wanted to.

They go to school for it, and they learn a lot more about how to do it once they've got a job in the field. They're very good at spinning details one way or another. It happens every day on any media outlet you ever watch, read, or listen to.

Babb is just stirring up shit because he doesn't like Pioli (probably because he won't do interviews with him), and he's done a great job of it.

Oh, give me a break. On most accusations there is a counter-quote from a current Associate who defends the practice. And in most cases, the Associate basically confirms that the story is true, and then spins it in a positive light. Of course the piece is skewed toward the negative, but to suggest that this is a biased piece of journalism is a huge discredit to the piece. That is absolute baloney to say he's "stirring up shit." This is a very well, mostly balanced piece. Give it more credit than that.

Most media outlets try to sensationalize pieces by offering one story, misrepresenting quotes, or by offering a ton about the cons and less about the pros. Babb did none of that. He has direct quotes. He pulled from supposedly 2 dozen "disgruntled" sources, 8 current associates (that appears to be Pioli's doing and, by the way, Pioli was given a fair chance to respond). There are no baseless accusations--every accusation appeared to have been posed to Donovan and the HR person, etc... and addressed. And the pros vs. cons is somewhere around 60%/40%, which is pretty well balanced for a journalist piece.

I think the fact that you're trying to discredit the piece goes to show your bias toward the organization, more than anything.

GloryDayz
01-15-2012, 12:45 PM
Of course than can, technically, but it is ILLEGAL.

Voice recordings are illegal without a MINIMUM one party consent in the conversation. This is why all those nanny cam spy products are camera only. It is illegal to record a conversation where none of the participants are aware they are being recorded.

EDIT:
Obviously one way to get around this would be to inform all employees AND visitors (in case two are talking without an informed employee present) that there are listening devices scattered around the facility. If all employees and guests had been made aware of this fact, this would have been news years ago.

It's built into every PBX in the world. So it's simple. As for being legal, yes it is. It's an HR issue, and read the fine print, they can do it. The only time you have to announce third party participation is in lieu of policy and being informed. So, post HR notification, any and all internal calls can be monitored unannounced for quality reasons. Much like email, it's been litigated to death... Now if you didn't tell them, or you monitor a non-corporate asset, you have issues. Maybe they're that dumb, but I doubt it.

Direckshun
01-15-2012, 12:46 PM
Yeah, in the year 2011, it's great to conduct your business like it's medieval times.

What a pile of shit Scott Pioli is. Clark Hunt is a bigger one for allowing his organization to run like this.

I hope Lamar Hunt haunts Clark.

Hate to break it to you, but this is how the large corporations of now operate. Clark Hunt was schooled by Goldman Sachs.

Decades of loyalty earning employees near-impunity with middling results is Lamar Hunt's generation. Not Clark's.

O.city
01-15-2012, 12:51 PM
We all wanted things to change when Peterson was the GM.

Clean house, change the environment, bring in new blood we all wanted.

Now it has happened and we all bitch. Pioli is taking it over the edge to far of course, but this franchise needed a good cleansing. 40 plus years of mediocrity really stains things.

I think it's bullshit going to the extent that they are about stupid shit, when they should be more focused on putting a winning product on the field. I think they have done a good job building up that product and keeping good young talent around, they are just a few pieces away.

We on Cp tend to be overly critical and demanding. Which is why I love this place so much. I consider most on here to be some of the most die hard Chiefs fans. However some times I think we don't really look at the whole picture objectively.

I could care less how the things are run at Arrowhead if they put a championship product on the field. I think if we get the three superstars back from injury next year we are close to doing that.

IMO we are a few pieces away from being legit contenders. This article could be the piece that makes those incharge realize that it's time to be bold.

Sorry for the rambling, just my .02 cents.

O.city
01-15-2012, 12:53 PM
Oh, give me a break. On most accusations there is a counter-quote from a current Associate who defends the practice. And in most cases, the Associate basically confirms that the story is true, and then spins it in a positive light. Of course the piece is skewed toward the negative, but to suggest that this is a biased piece of journalism is a huge discredit to the piece. That is absolute baloney to say he's "stirring up shit." This is a very well, mostly balanced piece. Give it more credit than that.

Most media outlets try to sensationalize pieces by offering one story, misrepresenting quotes, or by offering a ton about the cons and less about the pros. Babb did none of that. He has direct quotes. He pulled from supposedly 2 dozen "disgruntled" sources, 8 current associates (that appears to be Pioli's doing and, by the way, Pioli was given a fair chance to respond). There are no baseless accusations--every accusation appeared to have been posed to Donovan and the HR person, etc... and addressed. And the pros vs. cons is somewhere around 60%/40%, which is pretty well balanced for a journalist piece.

I think the fact that you're trying to discredit the piece goes to show your bias toward the organization, more than anything.

Good post.

splatbass
01-15-2012, 12:53 PM
How much money is spent on coffee?

Boy I'd hate to work in a place like that.
Posted via Mobile Device

I've never worked any place where the employer supplied coffee. Every office I've worked in had a coffee club where employees got together and bought coffee and everything needed to make it. Pioli being worried about the cost of coffee amazes me because they buy the coffee, not because he thinks they spend too much on it.

Count Zarth
01-15-2012, 12:54 PM
Hate to break it to you, but this is how the large corporations of now operate. Clark Hunt was schooled by Goldman Sachs.

Decades of loyalty earning employees near-impunity with middling results is Lamar Hunt's generation. Not Clark's.

If this is all Clark's MO, Pioli should be fired before long.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 12:55 PM
We all wanted things to change when Peterson was the GM.

Clean house, change the environment, bring in new blood we all wanted.

Now it has happened and we all bitch. Pioli is taking it over the edge to far of course, but this franchise needed a good cleansing. 40 plus years of mediocrity really stains things.

I think it's bullshit going to the extent that they are about stupid shit, when they should be more focused on putting a winning product on the field. I think they have done a good job building up that product and keeping good young talent around, they are just a few pieces away.

We on Cp tend to be overly critical and demanding. Which is why I love this place so much. I consider most on here to be some of the most die hard Chiefs fans. However some times I think we don't really look at the whole picture objectively.

I could care less how the things are run at Arrowhead if they put a championship product on the field. I think if we get the three superstars back from injury next year we are close to doing that.

IMO we are a few pieces away from being legit contenders. This article could be the piece that makes those incharge realize that it's time to be bold.

Sorry for the rambling, just my .02 cents.

Fully agree. And I think in the end, most of this is for the better. Details and accountability are a good thing.

The problem becomes... if this continues and that this mass paranoia is true, then we're going to lose a lot of good people and really struggle to bring good people in. And talent is everything.

DaWolf
01-15-2012, 12:59 PM
If this is all Clark's MO, Pioli should be fired before long.

Oh yeah, and that's the way it should be. Accountability. Focus on your job, and do it well. If Pioli doesn't deliver results, you get rid of him.

I keep hearing people out there say stuff like "Lamar would be rolling over in his grave." Well after years of Peterson and before that Jack Steadman, I could care less...

unlurking
01-15-2012, 01:00 PM
It's built into every PBX in the world. So it's simple. As for being legal, yes it is. It's an HR issue, and read the fine print, they can do it. The only time you have to announce third party participation is in lieu of policy and being informed. So, post HR notification, any and all internal calls can be monitored unannounced for quality reasons. Much like email, it's been litigated to death... Now if you didn't tell them, or you monitor a non-corporate asset, you have issues. Maybe they're that dumb, but I doubt it.

Which was exactly my point. Employees "suspected" and "feared" they were being monitored. The Chiefs "denied" that they were recording phone calls.

Now, do you really think there were "bugs" in the hallways and conference rooms and that the team monitored phone conversations?

O.city
01-15-2012, 01:01 PM
Fully agree. And I think in the end, most of this is for the better. Details and accountability are a good thing.

The problem becomes... if this continues and that this mass paranoia is true, then we're going to lose a lot of good people and really struggle to bring good people in. And talent is everything.

Very much so.

I think some of this is disgruntled ex workers and some of it is probably true.

Like you, I think the best thing about this is that there is gonna be alot of questions asked and accountability.

It could be possible that in 2 years we look back and laugh at this as we are preparing to play in teh AFC CHampionship. Or looking for a new GM.

Direckshun
01-15-2012, 01:01 PM
I don't know who said it earlier in this thread, but basically Clark Hunt has structured this organization to abide by the rules and restrictions of a Fortune 500 company.

I do not work for a Fortune 500 company, but I work for a company that is in the same field as many of the companies that are.

It's highly routine for employees to be disciplined or spoken with about Facebook posts and texting former employees. The entire workplace has security cameras, and management routinely reviews the cameras and irregularly disciplines employees for not doing their jobs if/when they believe that's the case. Inane disciplines like the candy wrapper happen, for good reason (and sometimes not-so-good). Everybody below a certain rung of power is completely kept in the dark. Any instances where a superior gets wind of someone below them shopping around for new jobs is met with a face-to-face meeting with that employee. Most forms of discipline occur with a reminder that your job is not etched in stone, but written in sand if you continue your current practices. Pervasive fear of getting fired is common.

Etc.

It sounds restrictive, and it is. But there are some good reasons for the company to operate that way (for instance, the Chiefs is probably spy-proof). Some of the reasons are just paranoia and power-tripping, which is of course the nature of the game.

I believe every word of the article.

The truth is, we want our good ol' Kansas City Chiefs to be run like a mom-and-pop store. In some ways, like PR and employee satisfaction, that's certainly preferable. But the way the Chiefs run their show now is similar to a lot of large corporations who do this routinely for competitive advantage.

Combine Clark's management style with Pioli's Patriot Way and this is what you get. It's logical that there's going to be a shit ton of turnover and people put in really shitty situations because for decades, the Chiefs were run completely differently.

I'm not excusing it, just explaining it.

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 01:04 PM
Hate to break it to you, but this is how the large corporations of now operate. Clark Hunt was schooled by Goldman Sachs.

Decades of loyalty earning employees near-impunity with middling results is Lamar Hunt's generation. Not Clark's.

You can conduct your business like a business while still having respect for people.

O.city
01-15-2012, 01:04 PM
I don't know who said it earlier in this thread, but basically Clark Hunt has structured this organization to abide by the rules and restrictions of a Fortune 500 company.

I do not work for a Fortune 500 company, but I work for a company that is in the same field as many of the companies that are.

It's highly routine for employees to be disciplined or spoken with about Facebook posts and texting former employees. The entire workplace has security cameras, and management routinely reviews the cameras and irregularly disciplines employees for not doing their jobs if/when they believe that's the case. Inane disciplines like the candy wrapper happen, for good reason (and sometimes not-so-good). Everybody below a certain rung of power is completely kept in the dark. Any instances where a superior gets wind of someone below them shopping around for new jobs is met with a face-to-face meeting with that employee. Most forms of discipline occur with a reminder that your job is not etched in stone, but written in sand if you continue your current practices. Pervasive fear of getting fired is common.

Etc.

It sounds restrictive, and it is. But there are some good reasons for the company to operate that way (for instance, the Chiefs is probably spy-proof). Some of the reasons are just paranoia and power-tripping, which is of course the nature of the game.

I believe every word of the article.

The truth is, we want our good ol' Kansas City Chiefs to be run like a mom-and-pop store. In some ways, like PR and employee satisfaction, that's certainly preferable. But the way the Chiefs run their show now is similar to a lot of large corporations who do this routinely for competitive advantage.

Combine Clark's management style with Pioli's Patriot Way and this is what you get. It's logical that there's going to be a shit ton of turnover and people put in really shitty situations because for decades, the Chiefs were run completely differently.

I'm not excusing it, just explaining it.

Spot on, Direckshun.

DRU
01-15-2012, 01:05 PM
Media outlets try to sensationalize pieces by offering one story, misrepresenting quotes, or by offering a ton about the cons and less about the pros.

That's a direct quote that would lead one to believe you agree with my opinion on this whole thing. See how easy that was?

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 01:05 PM
You also can't preach accountability to the ticket office manager, but then give the quarterback a constant pass because of one good stretch he had in 2010 against inferior opponents.

If this was consistent, and heads rolled for poor performance on the field, I'd be behind this.

It doesn't happen that way with this team, at all.

OnTheWarpath58
01-15-2012, 01:08 PM
I don't know who said it earlier in this thread, but basically Clark Hunt has structured this organization to abide by the rules and restrictions of a Fortune 500 company.

I do not work for a Fortune 500 company, but I work for a company that is in the same field as many of the companies that are.

It's highly routine for employees to be disciplined or spoken with about Facebook posts and texting former employees. The entire workplace has security cameras, and management routinely reviews the cameras and irregularly disciplines employees for not doing their jobs if/when they believe that's the case. Inane disciplines like the candy wrapper happen, for good reason (and sometimes not-so-good). Everybody below a certain rung of power is completely kept in the dark. Any instances where a superior gets wind of someone below them shopping around for new jobs is met with a face-to-face meeting with that employee. Most forms of discipline occur with a reminder that your job is not etched in stone, but written in sand if you continue your current practices. Pervasive fear of getting fired is common.

Etc.

It sounds restrictive, and it is. But there are some good reasons for the company to operate that way (for instance, the Chiefs is probably spy-proof). Some of the reasons are just paranoia and power-tripping, which is of course the nature of the game.

I believe every word of the article.

The truth is, we want our good ol' Kansas City Chiefs to be run like a mom-and-pop store. In some ways, like PR and employee satisfaction, that's certainly preferable. But the way the Chiefs run their show now is similar to a lot of large corporations who do this routinely for competitive advantage.

Combine Clark's management style with Pioli's Patriot Way and this is what you get. It's logical that there's going to be a shit ton of turnover and people put in really shitty situations because for decades, the Chiefs were run completely differently.

I'm not excusing it, just explaining it.

Bullshit.

I think I can speak for most when I say that we want the team run to where what happens between the lines on gameday matters most.

Not the price of fucking coffee, or stray candy wrappers or making the media get a pass to piss or making employees draw their blinds.

NONE of that shit has any effect on gameday. This regime's priorities are severely out of whack.

21 wins in 3 years. But goddamn it, we're drinking cheap coffee and picking up after ourselves.

Direckshun
01-15-2012, 01:08 PM
If this is all Clark's MO, Pioli should be fired before long.

Meh.

Pioli had a shit first year, but because the institution has invested more resources in you when you're at his level, he gets more than a year anyway.

We went 4-12 with a bad coaching hire and a bad QB hire.

Even with those two things acting as anchors, we go 10-6 the next year and make the playoffs.

Even with those two things as anchors, we go 7-9 against a much tougher schedule with our offensive and defensive MVPs missing the whole season.

This team is getting better. The coaching mistake has now been righted, the QB mistake probably only has one more year, and Pioli has been firing on all cylanders the past couple years.

The team is getting to where it needs to. And aside from Cassel, this team hasn't really had any realistic opportunities as franchise QBs during Pioli's tenure. Sanchez and Clausen, two QBs I would've made a move for, aren't exactly the world beaters you need at the position.

2013 is a great QB class, I have a feeling we'll get our next guy there.

Direckshun
01-15-2012, 01:09 PM
You can conduct your business like a business while still having respect for people.

You are adorable.

O.city
01-15-2012, 01:10 PM
You also can't preach accountability to the ticket office manager, but then give the quarterback a constant pass because of one good stretch he had in 2010 against inferior opponents.

If this was consistent, and heads rolled for poor performance on the field, I'd be behind this.

It doesn't happen that way with this team, at all.

This.

Man there are some great points being made in this thread by lots of people.

And FTR, I think they are consistent with most players on poor performance, save for 1 spot.

Look at previous years. They seen safety as a weakness, went out and made that a strength. Same with wr, not I bet we see it with oline and NT this offseason.

There is however one spot that isn't looked at in the same light.

Direckshun
01-15-2012, 01:12 PM
Bullshit.

I think I can speak for most when I say that we want the team run to where what happens between the lines on gameday matters most.

Not the price of ****ing coffee, or stray candy wrappers or making the media get a pass to piss or making employees draw their blinds.

NONE of that shit has any effect on gameday. This regime's priorities are severely out of whack.

21 wins in 3 years. But goddamn it, we're drinking cheap coffee and picking up after ourselves.

I agree. There's a lot not to like.

I'm just trying to explain the phenomenon here.

Throwing little fits over wrappers and AC/heater levels doesn't mean he's not committed to winning. It just means he's committed to winning while being a micromanaging control freak.

Which, by the way, is enabled and encouraged by Clark. To pretend Pioli is acting rogue here is assinine.

GloryDayz
01-15-2012, 01:12 PM
Which was exactly my point. Employees "suspected" and "feared" they were being monitored. The Chiefs "denied" that they were recording phone calls.

Now, do you really think there were "bugs" in the hallways and conference rooms and that the team monitored phone conversations?

They shouldn't fear it, they should expect it. Trust by verify! Heck, take doors down and carpet the hallways! Saying they don't tap may not mean exactly what they want you to think it means. Maybe, I don't know, and I don't care.

Mortgage or not, if you work for a company you work for them as they want or you leave. If your that into your house, then swallow your pride and do what the man says. Build a nest egg and walk away if you don't agree, but be honest and walk away.

And I agree, their non-disclosure/IP agreement was probably signed on the way in and strongly reinforced on their way out. If not, or if a modification was made on the way out, they sold their soul - or it never meant as much as money.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 01:13 PM
I don't know who said it earlier in this thread, but basically Clark Hunt has structured this organization to abide by the rules and restrictions of a Fortune 500 company.

I do not work for a Fortune 500 company, but I work for a company that is in the same field as many of the companies that are.

It's highly routine for employees to be disciplined or spoken with about Facebook posts and texting former employees. The entire workplace has security cameras, and management routinely reviews the cameras and irregularly disciplines employees for not doing their jobs if/when they believe that's the case. Inane disciplines like the candy wrapper happen, for good reason (and sometimes not-so-good). Everybody below a certain rung of power is completely kept in the dark. Any instances where a superior gets wind of someone below them shopping around for new jobs is met with a face-to-face meeting with that employee.

Etc.

It sounds restrictive, and it is. But there are some good reasons for the company to operate that way (for instance, the Chiefs is probably spy-proof). Some of the reasons are just paranoia and power-tripping, which is of course the nature of the game.

I believe every word of the article.

The truth is, we want our good ol' Kansas City Chiefs to be run like a mom-and-pop store. In some ways, like PR and employee satisfaction, that's certainly preferable. But the way the Chiefs run their show now is similar to a lot of large corporations who do this routinely for competitive advantage.

Combine Clark's management style with Pioli's Patriot Way and this is what you get. It's logical that there's going to be a shit ton of turnover and people put in really shitty situations because for decades, the Chiefs were run completely differently.

I'm not excusing it, just explaining it.

I work for a Fortune 500 company. Everybody knows they're being monitored. We're trained every day to be careful about what we e-mail, facebook about, etc... We all know that there is somebody always watching and that every word I e-mail about, talk about, etc... becomes discoverable. If someone accidentally or purposefully sends an e-mail with sensitive information, they are drilled to the nth degree, because they are that careful. And it should be that way. I don't care that I'm being monitored, but never do I feel like my privacy is being invaded. And they're not going to bother me about something petty. Look, we all know that when we're on company territory, I can't just write anything on my computer. I can't just steal stuff on company property knowing there are cameras around.

I can assure you that the environment painted in this picture is different from anything I've seen. And again, it's not about the aggressive accountability. I don't care about the gum wrapper example--I think that's a great thing. I think what is unusual in this instance is the extent of privacy monitoring and the culture that is built around enormous distrust of each other. Now, Apple is one culture where there is a lot more lockdown on information sharing, but to my knowledge, Apple doesn't come close to the kind of environment fostered in the story above. Because this isn't just about business. This isn't just about protecting secrets. This is about an abuse of power to micro-manage to every last detail, even stuff that doesn't really affect the business.

So do Fortune 500 companies do this? Probably. The good ones? Not to my knowledge.

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 01:14 PM
You are adorable.

You're right. People should live in fear for their jobs because they parked in the wrong spot overnight.

I understand how corporate America works. I also understand the work environment created by being a micro-managing piggybacker like Pioli is one that will never, ever translate into success.

FringeNC
01-15-2012, 01:14 PM
What's ironic is that there is such little new thinking in the NFL that would make secrecy important. It's not like the new iPhone is being tested there. We run the same offense and defense other teams run.

I guess during the draft you don't want leaks, but is Pioli doing a better job at drafting thus far than other clubs?

Again, I don't really have a problem with it. It just seems stupid. If there was a huge return in the NFL on this type of secrecy, all teams would be doing it. Doesn't really give me hope Pioli knows what he is doing.

Direckshun
01-15-2012, 01:14 PM
Amazing how the level of conversation elevates the second the KC press churns out a really great story, isn't it.

Let all reporters follow the way of Babb going forward.

After a story like this, I have a feeling it may be a while before somebody does.

In my company, management would be finding a way to fire somebody right now if they could establish reasonable proof they contributed to the story.

Direckshun
01-15-2012, 01:16 PM
You're right. People should live in fear for their jobs because they parked in the wrong spot overnight.

I understand how corporate America works. I also understand the work environment created by being a micro-managing piggybacker like Pioli is one that will never, ever translate into success.

I'm saying I agree with you, but Clark Hunt was schooled by Goldman Sachs.

Think back to the Great Recession of 2008/09. That occured precisely because companies like GS found a way to make an unbelievable amount of money in ways that directly contributed to an economy that ****ed over tens of millions of innocent people. GS made off like bandits.

So let's be realistic.

Direckshun
01-15-2012, 01:18 PM
I work for a Fortune 500 company. Everybody knows they're being monitored. We're trained every day to be careful about what we e-mail, facebook about, etc... We all know that there is somebody always watching and that every word I e-mail about, talk about, etc... becomes discoverable. If someone accidentally or purposefully sends an e-mail with sensitive information, they are drilled to the nth degree, because they are that careful. And it should be that way. I don't care that I'm being monitored, but never do I feel like my privacy is being invaded. And they're not going to bother me about something petty. Look, we all know that when we're on company territory, I can't just write anything on my computer. I can't just steal stuff on company property knowing there are cameras around.

I can assure you that the environment painted in this picture is different from anything I've seen. And again, it's not about the aggressive accountability. I don't care about the gum wrapper example--I think that's a great thing. I think what is unusual in this instance is the extent of privacy monitoring and the culture that is built around enormous distrust of each other. Now, Apple is one culture where there is a lot more lockdown on information sharing, but to my knowledge, Apple doesn't come close to the kind of environment fostered in the story above. Because this isn't just about business. This isn't just about protecting secrets. This is about an abuse of power to micro-manage to every last detail, even stuff that doesn't really affect the business.

So do Fortune 500 companies do this? Probably. The good ones? Not to my knowledge.

Fair points all around.

Chocolate Hog
01-15-2012, 01:18 PM
I'm saying I agree with you, but Clark Hunt was schooled by Goldman Sachs.

Think back to the Great Recession of 2008/09. That occured precisely because companies like GS found a way to make an unbelievable amount of money in ways that directly contributed to an economy that ****ed over tens of millions of innocent people.

So let's be realistic.

Thank you someone finally said it. Fuck the fact that Hunt was schooled by Gold man Sachs says it all. Go home people this franchise never will be shit with these kind of people running it.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 01:20 PM
That's a direct quote that would lead one to believe you agree with my opinion on this whole thing. See how easy that was?

How in the world did you come to that?

Deny any of these things:
1) The majority of the accusations in the piece were allowed a counter-response, whether from Hunt, Pioli, etc...
2) The Chiefs were reached out to and given plenty of time to offer their input. The man being accused, Pioli, for some dumb reason, chose not to participate
3) While the story slightly skews to the negative, there is probably a good 60/40 balance between negative/positive, which is a hell of a lot better than many media outlets, which usually go 100/0

So... other than the fact that my entire post talks about how this wasn't your typical sensationalistic piece.... I guess you only read what you want to read.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 01:21 PM
great example of how bullshit gets blown out of proportion.

Almost every single person declaring Pioli an evil dictator the likes of Hitler, would change their mind completely if Pioli cut Cassel and traded up for Luck. ROFL

the QB position has nothing to do with the rumor-filled POS article and yet they are link because people are pissed as hell that Cassel is our QB. Some people declared war on Pioli the moment he got Cassel and passed on Sanchez.

kind of like how nobody gave a shit about whether Baldwin started/caused the fight that got his hand hurt. They hate Jones and think Baldwin has potentialm so Jones was in the wrong.

It's some seriously silly shit.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 01:23 PM
Amazing how the level of conversation elevates the second the KC press churns out a really great story, isn't it.

Let all reporters follow the way of Babb going forward.

After a story like this, I have a feeling it may be a while before somebody does.

In my company, management would be finding a way to fire somebody right now if they could establish reasonable proof they contributed to the story.

I highly doubt that. There are whistleblower laws and they're becoming much stricter. I'd be shocked if any HR department would allow that to happen. Even in terms of Facebook, etc..., to my knowledge, there is limited precedence of being allowed to fire somebody based on what they write about.

DRU
01-15-2012, 01:23 PM
How in the world did you come to that?

Deny any of these things:
1) The majority of the accusations in the piece were allowed a counter-response, whether from Hunt, Pioli, etc...
2) The Chiefs were reached out to and given plenty of time to offer their input. The man being accused, Pioli, for some dumb reason, chose not to participate
3) While the story slightly skews to the negative, there is probably a good 60/40 balance between negative/positive, which is a hell of a lot better than many media outlets, which usually go 100/0

So... other than the fact that my entire post talks about how this wasn't your typical sensationalistic piece.... I guess you only read what you want to read.

You're just further proving my point. I chose not to include all these additional facts that you quoted in my quick example. I took the one thing you said that looked like you agreed with me and posted that as your direct quote.

That's exactly what the media does, is all I'm saying. I'm not saying that as a direct attack on Babb or anything like that. He's obviously done a good job of stirring up a lot of conversation about a particular topic.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I learned a few years ago to never completely trust anything that comes from the media. They can make things look however they want, and they do exactly that.

donkhater
01-15-2012, 01:24 PM
great example of how bullshit gets blown out of proportion.

Almost every single person declaring Pioli an evil dictator the likes of Hitler, would change their mind completely if Pioli cut Cassel and traded up for Luck. ROFL

the QB position has nothing to do with the rumor-filled POS article and yet they are link because people are pissed as hell that Cassel is our QB. Some people declared war on Pioli the moment he got Cassel and passed on Sanchez.

kind of like how nobody gave a shit about whether Baldwin started/caused the fight that got his hand hurt. They hate Jones and think Baldwin has potentialm so Jones was in the wrong.

It's some seriously silly shit.

A-fu*****-men

Rausch
01-15-2012, 01:26 PM
Four days before he was fired as the teamís coach, he wanted to talk about what life was like inside this organization. But he didnít know who else might be listening.

Looking up toward the ceiling, he darted into a back hallway before hesitating. Then he turned around, going back through a door and stopping again. Haley suspected that many rooms at the team facility were bugged so that team administrators could monitor employeesí conversations. Stopping finally in a conference room, Haley said he believed his personal cellphone, a line he used before being hired by the Chiefs in 2009, had been tampered with.

Not only did you suck but you're clearly a paranoid schizophrenic...

:shake:

FringeNC
01-15-2012, 01:29 PM
great example of how bullshit gets blown out of proportion.

Almost every single person declaring Pioli an evil dictator the likes of Hitler, would change their mind completely if Pioli cut Cassel and traded up for Luck. ROFL

the QB position has nothing to do with the rumor-filled POS article and yet they are link because people are pissed as hell that Cassel is our QB. Some people declared war on Pioli the moment he got Cassel and passed on Sanchez.

kind of like how nobody gave a shit about whether Baldwin started/caused the fight that got his hand hurt. They hate Jones and think Baldwin has potentialm so Jones was in the wrong.

It's some seriously silly shit.

For the most part, I agree with this. However, do you really think this type of commitment to secrecy is going to be the factor that leads to playoff success? I don't give a fuck if Pioli is prick, but I do care if doesn't have his priorities straight. For me, reading this article lowered my opinion of Pioli's competence.

notorious
01-15-2012, 01:30 PM
great example of how bullshit gets blown out of proportion.

Almost every single person declaring Pioli an evil dictator the likes of Hitler, would change their mind completely if Pioli cut Cassel and traded up for Luck. ROFL

the QB position has nothing to do with the rumor-filled POS article and yet they are link because people are pissed as hell that Cassel is our QB. Some people declared war on Pioli the moment he got Cassel and passed on Sanchez.

kind of like how nobody gave a shit about whether Baldwin started/caused the fight that got his hand hurt. They hate Jones and think Baldwin has potentialm so Jones was in the wrong.

It's some seriously silly shit.


This.

JohnnyHammersticks
01-15-2012, 01:31 PM
I would go through a year of kickboxing training just to have one opportunity at wheel-kicking Scott Pioli's huge, bald head.

You're supposed to be running a pro football team Pioli, not the ****ing CIA. Maybe if he'd spend more time evaluating talent and less time evaluating gum wrappers--the Chiefs would have drafted Yates in the 5th round and had a 3rd-string QB who they could actually put on the field instead of one who--in their own words--wasn't ready.

What an insecure little stupid man Pioli is. The egomaniac persona is just that--a persona. In reality this little insecure man probably looks at himself in the mirror and despises what he sees (while wishing he had hair). Well join the club Scott--because most of us despise you too.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 01:35 PM
Wow, so we should throw out any case where there is strong eyewitness testimony? You know... because we're relying on people's word. Again, you don't look at these as facts. You look at them as patterns. And there is a lot of both in this article and everything we already know.

I don't think anyone really believes Haley's cell phone was tampered with. The problem was that the organization drove him to that level of paranoia. I imagine that paranoia stemmed from him wondering how private information became discovered. What's the pattern? We know that the Chiefs were so invasive of his private life that they were calling in radio shows leaking out that Haley was going to a Lil Wayne concert and having pizza with his family. We saw multiple sources claiming that office phone, e-mail, and internet records were not just monitored, but heavily monitored. We heard a story about Denny Thum having months of phone records scrutinized. We know that Pioli has invaded people's privacy in the past. The pattern suggests that this paranoia is very real, that their communications within Arrowhead are not only heavily monitored, but acted upon. And by the way, he's the one who built the culture around Spygate--you don't think that is a pretty damning piece of evidence that this organization might go beyond the lengths of what is ethical to invade associates' privacy? Again, there is a lot of legal area for companies to invade your privacy by monitoring communications. But this is the first I've heard of a company building a system around stretching every boundary they can.

What patterns do we see of a systematic problem? We heard a story that lots of people are denied access to certain floors (I doubt that's made up). We've heard a heavy pattern of stories in this article and multiple others that seem to show that Pioli most definitely has a big ego (the courier van, the temperature of his office, calling him by his first name--that's not details, that's just pettiness). The claim that the Chiefs all draw their shades down is very real... you can have an opinion, if you choose, as to whether that's good or bad. Same with the gum wrapper--that was very real. The fact that co-workers from different departments have to go to great lengths to hide the fact that they're going to lunch together... that appears to be true too.

And, again... I can guarantee that the age discrimination is only going to make this whole thing worse.
so your basic argument is that with this much smoke there has to be a fire somewhere.

and

Pioli is at least guilty of creating a hostile work environment because he pissed off people enough for them to say something, even if that something is just speculative bullshit?


:facepalm:

DRU
01-15-2012, 01:38 PM
I would go through a year of kickboxing training just to have one opportunity at wheel-kicking Scott Pioli's huge, bald head.

You're supposed to be running a pro football team Pioli, not the ****ing CIA. Maybe if he'd spend more time evaluating talent and less time evaluating gum wrappers--the Chiefs would have drafted Yates in the 5th round and had a 3rd-string QB who they could actually put on the field instead of one who--in their own words--wasn't ready.

What an insecure little stupid man Pioli is. The egomaniac persona is just that--a persona. In reality this little insecure man probably looks at himself in the mirror and despises what he sees (while wishing he had hair). Well join the club Scott--because most of us despise you too.

God you guys are making way too big a deal out of this wrapper thing. PIOLI ISN'T THE ONLY ONE IN BUSINESS WHO USES THIS AS AN EXAMPLE WITHIN A WORKPLACE. I've seen it on numerous occasions. It's just a simple tool to spark conversation and prove a point about overlooking details in the work place.

He's not scouring the complex for candy wrappers, and if you really think that, you're a shining example of ignorance.

-King-
01-15-2012, 01:38 PM
For the most part, I agree with this. However, do you really think this type of commitment to secrecy is going to be the factor that leads to playoff success? I don't give a fuck if Pioli is prick, but I do care if doesn't have his priorities straight. For me, reading this article lowered my opinion of Pioli's competence.

How does secrecy affect play off success? So far this team is one player away from being a serious contender. Like I said, if we can acquire that one player, Pioli can have the TSA at arrowhead for all I care.

This isn't a big deal at all. If the people don't like working in that environment, they can quit. It's not like they're going to go to unemployment if they quit. They're NFL front office workers. If they're truly good, they'll get a job in no time.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 01:39 PM
For the most part, I agree with this. However, do you really think this type of commitment to secrecy is going to be the factor that leads to playoff success? I don't give a **** if Pioli is prick, but I do care if doesn't have his priorities straight. For me, reading this article lowered my opinion of Pioli's competence.
no doubt, i worry that Pioli is going to have to fail in KC before he learns to be more flexible about stuff. But this article is complete crap.

I'm far more worried about Pioli's reluctance to 'go big' and his belief that free agency is fool's gold. Also worry about his seeming dedication to Cassel ... although this might be completely in my head. Pioli might be ready to move on and i just don't know it.

notorious
01-15-2012, 01:49 PM
no doubt, i worry that Pioli is going to have to fail in KC before he learns to be more flexible about stuff. But this article is complete crap.

I'm far more worried about Pioli's reluctance to 'go big' and his belief that free agency is fool's gold. Also worry about his seeming dedication to Cassel ... although this might be completely in my head. Pioli might be ready to move on and i just don't know it.

Let's hope we are all wrong about him.

donkhater
01-15-2012, 01:51 PM
no doubt, i worry that Pioli is going to have to fail in KC before he learns to be more flexible about stuff. But this article is complete crap.

I'm far more worried about Pioli's reluctance to 'go big' and his belief that free agency is fool's gold. Also worry about his seeming dedication to Cassel ... although this might be completely in my head. Pioli might be ready to move on and i just don't know it.

See, the whole FA thing is something I don't get. The Patriots first SB run with Brady was with a LOT of low level free agents. He also was around when they went after people like Dillon, Moss, Welker, Harrison and Seau.

-King-
01-15-2012, 01:52 PM
Let's hope we are all wrong about him.

One thing I've learned about Pioli is that he's about the most unpredictable GM in the league. Hopefully that means that he'll cut Cassel.

JohnnyHammersticks
01-15-2012, 01:53 PM
God you guys are making way too big a deal out of this wrapper thing. PIOLI ISN'T THE ONLY ONE IN BUSINESS WHO USES THIS AS AN EXAMPLE WITHIN A WORKPLACE. I've seen it on numerous occasions. It's just a simple tool to spark conversation and prove a point about overlooking details in the work place.

He's not scouring the complex for candy wrappers, and if you really think that, you're a shining example of ignorance.

What you're missing is that the gum wrapper is a metaphor for a much larger problem, which is that this flaming prick OBVIOUSLY needs to spend more time doing his ****ing job, and less time freaking out over things that have absolutely nothing to do with the product on the ****ing field. Then maybe the Chiefs wouldn't enter a ****ing season with a starting QB who can't play, a 2nd-string QB who had no business being within a mile of an NFL stadium without buying a ticket, and a 3rd-string QB who they couldn't even put on the field because--in their own words--he wasn't ready to play at the NFL level yet.

Okie_Apparition
01-15-2012, 01:57 PM
Needing to satanize someone because you don't like them or disagree with their moves
Is...I'm at a loss for words to discribe the retardedness

JohnnyHammersticks
01-15-2012, 02:04 PM
...I'm at a loss for words to discribe the retardedness

Oh the irony . . . LMAO

GordonGekko
01-15-2012, 02:07 PM
If this method of management produces playoff victories and championships, I am all for it, but thus far it has produced Matt Cassel. 'Nuff said.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 02:09 PM
See, the whole FA thing is something I don't get. The Patriots first SB run with Brady was with a LOT of low level free agents. He also was around when they went after people like Dillon, Moss, Welker, Harrison and Seau.
the key is 'low level' free agents

Pioli has no problem going to cheaper guys in FA. He takes a long term, slow build attitude about building a team.

people just don't have the patience for it.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 02:16 PM
so your basic argument is that with this much smoke there has to be a fire somewhere.

and

Pioli is at least guilty of creating a hostile work environment because he pissed off people enough for them to say something, even if that something is just speculative bullshit?


:facepalm:

This isn't speculation. Most of what I stated above is pretty much fact.

donkhater
01-15-2012, 02:37 PM
An excerpt from 'War Room' that might put some perspective on this article:

...At one point, Pioli had to do a complicated verbal tiptoe. He realized how much the Chiefs meant to the Hunts, and he had obviously been awed by Lamar Hunt, but he needed to address a few things with the organization without coming off as disrespectful. He wanted to investigate why there had been a twenty-two-year gap between division titles, 1971 to 1993, and he wanted to understand why there was a perception of a Chiefs juggernaut, as recently as the late 1990s, when in reality there had been just three playoff wins in the previous twenty years. He wondered if the problem wasn't just on the field.

"There's this living, breathing dysfunction with football organizations," he said, "and it pits lifetime employees vs. temporary employees. It's insane. You need the help of all these people to do the job well. It's not just players. It's equipment people, the grounds crew, community relations, marketing..."

110010x
01-15-2012, 02:39 PM
Pioli sounds like an asshole of a manager to work with.

gblowfish
01-15-2012, 02:40 PM
Dear Formerly Greatest Fans in the NFL:

Miss me yet?

Affectionately,
Carl "Delano" Peterson

P.S.:
Go Fish!

donkhater
01-15-2012, 02:43 PM
Dear Formerly Greatest Fans in the NFL:

Miss me yet?

Affectionately,
Carl "Delano" Peterson

P.S.:
Go Fish!

Not even a little. Tell Gunther and Herm, hi.

FAX
01-15-2012, 02:56 PM
Pioli sounds like an asshole of a manager to work with.

Hi, Mr. Haley. Sorry you were fired. Good luck in the future.

FAX

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 04:01 PM
You're just further proving my point. I chose not to include all these additional facts that you quoted in my quick example. I took the one thing you said that looked like you agreed with me and posted that as your direct quote.

That's exactly what the media does, is all I'm saying. I'm not saying that as a direct attack on Babb or anything like that. He's obviously done a good job of stirring up a lot of conversation about a particular topic.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I learned a few years ago to never completely trust anything that comes from the media. They can make things look however they want, and they do exactly that.

No, you are absolutely using this as a direct attack on Babb. You are trying to discredit his piece simply because it has a conclusion you don't agree with. You even suggested that he wrote this piece because he hates Pioli, as if this was some kind of a vendetta.

He starts with the hypothesis that Pioli is leading a dysfunctional organization. He surrounds that hypothesis with facts and stories that he believes supports his case, and those are based on facts/stories collected from over 2 dozen sources. And then in most of those accusations, he provides a counter-response from Mark Donovan or Ray Farmer or someone else in the organization. Of course he's going to pick out quotes/statements that are most interesting. But it's not like he's twisting their words. All those quotes are fair and, my guess is, when they read this, they're not going to complain that Babb somehow misrepresented them. The quotes seem accurate and fair.

So again, I don't understand your beef. Considering the nature of the subject, this seems to be a very fair and accurate article.

Brock
01-15-2012, 04:08 PM
I don't think anyone really believes Haley's cell phone was tampered with. The problem was that the organization drove him to that level of paranoia. I imagine that paranoia stemmed from him wondering how private information became discovered. What's the pattern? We know that the Chiefs were so invasive of his private life that they were calling in radio shows leaking out that Haley was going to a Lil Wayne concert and having pizza with his family.

LMAO Yeah, either that or Haley is a slightly unbalanced person who thinks the world is out to get him.

ChiefsCountry
01-15-2012, 04:26 PM
An excerpt from 'War Room' that might put some perspective on this article:

...At one point, Pioli had to do a complicated verbal tiptoe. He realized how much the Chiefs meant to the Hunts, and he had obviously been awed by Lamar Hunt, but he needed to address a few things with the organization without coming off as disrespectful. He wanted to investigate why there had been a twenty-two-year gap between division titles, 1971 to 1993, and he wanted to understand why there was a perception of a Chiefs juggernaut, as recently as the late 1990s, when in reality there had been just three playoff wins in the previous twenty years. He wondered if the problem wasn't just on the field.

"There's this living, breathing dysfunction with football organizations," he said, "and it pits lifetime employees vs. temporary employees. It's insane. You need the help of all these people to do the job well. It's not just players. It's equipment people, the grounds crew, community relations, marketing..."

Hey stupid Fuck Pioli you want to know the reason for those gaps, its not because of secertarity or marketing people having their windows open or the janitors or the security personal or the office people being scared of their jobs. Its dumbass GMs like you who have brought in shitty QBs like Matt Cassel. Thats the fucking reason you worthless POS.

crispystl420
01-15-2012, 04:30 PM
Hey stupid **** Pioli you want to know the reason for those gaps, its not because of secertarity or marketing people having their windows open or the janitors or the security personal or the office people being scared of their jobs. Its dumbass GMs like you who have brought in shitty QBs like Matt Cassel. Thats the ****ing reason you worthless POS.

Word

Coach
01-15-2012, 04:31 PM
Wonder what Carl the janitor is up to these days.....

DRU
01-15-2012, 04:36 PM
No, you are absolutely using this as a direct attack on Babb. You are trying to discredit his piece simply because it has a conclusion you don't agree with. You even suggested that he wrote this piece because he hates Pioli, as if this was some kind of a vendetta.

He starts with the hypothesis that Pioli is leading a dysfunctional organization. He surrounds that hypothesis with facts and stories that he believes supports his case, and those are based on facts/stories collected from over 2 dozen sources. And then in most of those accusations, he provides a counter-response from Mark Donovan or Ray Farmer or someone else in the organization. Of course he's going to pick out quotes/statements that are most interesting. But it's not like he's twisting their words. All those quotes are fair and, my guess is, when they read this, they're not going to complain that Babb somehow misrepresented them. The quotes seem accurate and fair.

So again, I don't understand your beef. Considering the nature of the subject, this seems to be a very fair and accurate article.

I did make a comment that he hates Pioli, and that was a stupid comment. I don't know his personal feelings about anybody, so that was a lame comment to make.

The point I'm really trying to make, though, and I still stand by, is that Babb is making something out of nothing because all he had was nothing and he needed something, so he created it with whatever data and information he could dig up, just like all media does when it's got nothing.

The simple fact of the matter is if it wasn't for Matt Cassel nobody would give a shit about any of this. That situation, though, is just fueling the fire for articles like this when they really don't have anything to do with each other.

TEX
01-15-2012, 04:48 PM
Hey stupid **** Pioli you want to know the reason for those gaps, its not because of secertarity or marketing people having their windows open or the janitors or the security personal or the office people being scared of their jobs. Its dumbass GMs like you who have brought in shitty QBs like Matt Cassel. Thats the ****ing reason you worthless POS.

This.

Pioli is such a joke. He's damn lucky that Bill Billichick let him carry his jock for all those years.

Mojo Jojo
01-15-2012, 04:57 PM
I did make a comment that he hates Pioli, and that was a stupid comment. I don't know his personal feelings about anybody, so that was a lame comment to make.

The point I'm really trying to make, though, and I still stand by, is that Babb is making something out of nothing because all he had was nothing and he needed something, so he created it with whatever data and information he could dig up, just like all media does when it's got nothing.

The simple fact of the matter is if it wasn't for Matt Cassel nobody would give a shit about any of this. That situation, though, is just fueling the fire for articles like this when they really don't have anything to do with each other.
Not true at all...I have two clients who won't be spending major money because of the way Pioli has treated in house people and sponsors. Now who do you think is going to pick up the tab for that lost revenue?

Count Zarth
01-15-2012, 04:59 PM
Not true at all...I have two clients who won't be spending major money because of the way Pioli has treated in house people and sponsors.

Jeez. How can Clark stand by this guy?

Seems like he's on a power trip gone wrong.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 05:00 PM
LMAO Yeah, either that or Haley is a slightly unbalanced person who thinks the world is out to get him.

You'd probably think the world was out to get you too if your boss operated a football team like the mafia...

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 05:02 PM
the key is 'low level' free agents

Pioli has no problem going to cheaper guys in FA. He takes a long term, slow build attitude about building a team.

people just don't have the patience for it.

Because he handed the keys and a $60M check to a shit QB solely because he was one of his Patriot "boys".

He professes to want to build this team slowly, through the draft, and then makes THE biggest "win now" knee-jerk move you can make, a the most important position on the field.

People are right to not have any patience. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

O.city
01-15-2012, 05:02 PM
So over under 2 years before Pioli is fired and goes back to NE as the GM?

O.city
01-15-2012, 05:03 PM
Because he handed the keys and a $60M check to a shit QB solely because he was one of his Patriot "boys".

He professes to want to build this team slowly, through the draft, and then makes THE biggest "win now" knee-jerk move you can make, a the most important position on the field.

People are right to not have any patience. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

This.

I wish a KC reporter would bring this up sometime.

ChiefsCountry
01-15-2012, 05:10 PM
Jeez. How can Clark stand by this guy?

Seems like he's on a power trip gone wrong.

Getting Pioli and Donovan for Clark is like scoring the hottest chick in school as your girlfriend. You are going to be blind to stuff for a while.

DRU
01-15-2012, 05:10 PM
Not true at all...I have two clients who won't be spending major money because of the way Pioli has treated in house people and sponsors. Now who do you think is going to pick up the tab for that lost revenue?

If your clients think they'll actually make a difference then more power to em.

The NFL brings huge benefits to business, though, so I doubt it'll do much damage, and they'll fill their spots pretty quickly. Especially if they come out and start this next season off well, no matter who our QB is.

Then your clients will be regretting having given up their piece for petty reasons and it'll cost a lot more to buy back in at that time.

I think we can all agree that we're a QB away from a pretty damn good team. We're not very confident in the management to make the move that we all want, but that's why we're posting on Chiefsplanet instead of running football teams, and I wouldn't consider it the best time to be giving up and folding your cards as a fan overall. We've got a lot of things that are going to be happening between now and next season.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 05:27 PM
The NFL brings huge benefits to business, though, so I doubt it'll do much damage, and they'll fill their spots pretty quickly. Especially if they come out and start this next season off well, no matter who our QB is.

It absolutely matters who the QB is. We've won a few games with Cassel before - it's Fool's Gold.

O.city
01-15-2012, 05:28 PM
I really think what Orton did the last three games have opened the eyes of alot of people here in KC, fan wise.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 05:31 PM
Because he handed the keys and a $60M check to a shit QB solely because he was one of his Patriot "boys".

He professes to want to build this team slowly, through the draft, and then makes THE biggest "win now" knee-jerk move you can make, a the most important position on the field.

People are right to not have any patience. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.
once again ... this entire thread is bullshit

why not just make another thread saying 'Cassel sucks ... Damnit Pioli!!! :cuss: '

because that is the only truth about it.

this is about Cassel ... nothing else

since when did you become such a crying little bitch?

Messier
01-15-2012, 05:35 PM
once again ... this entire thread is bullshit

why not just make another thread saying 'Cassel sucks ... Damnit Pioli!!! :cuss: '

because that is the only truth about it.

this is about Cassel ... nothing else

since when did you become such a crying little bitch?

It use to be Cassel and Jackson, but Jackson doesn't seem like such a bust, so now it's just Cassel.

Count Zarth
01-15-2012, 05:36 PM
The Jackson pick is still an issue, because he's overpaid, and not an impact player.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 05:37 PM
once again ... this entire thread is bullshit

why not just make another thread saying 'Cassel sucks ... Damnit Pioli!!! :cuss: '

because that is the only truth about it.

this is about Cassel ... nothing else

since when did you become such a crying little bitch?

The fact that you think this is only about Cassel is laughable. Cassel is the glaring, festering boil on the face of the franchise.

But one only need to investigate slightly to know that the infection is systemic.

DRU
01-15-2012, 05:38 PM
I really think what Orton did the last three games have opened the eyes of alot of people here in KC, fan wise.

I agree, but the situation is what it is. We have Cassel and Stanzi. That's it right now. Lots of things could happen this offseason, and any number of them would take the attention right back away from this crap and on to the actual team again, which is where it should be.

Messier
01-15-2012, 05:40 PM
The Jackson pick is still an issue, because he's overpaid, and not an impact player.

Yeah but he's a quality starter. It was and could've been a more Casselish issue.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 05:43 PM
Yeah but he's a quality starter. It was and could've been a more Casselish issue.

Here's the thing - Cassel is just a symptom.

The guy makes them lock the doors to the media room - reporters have to have an escort to go to the bathroom. He makes staff members with offices that face the field pull their blinds.

All of this non-football stuff is VERY important, especially when you add it to moves like Cassel and Jackson, the dysfunctional relationship with HIS first HC hire, and all of the other actual football moves.

There's mounting evidence to suggest the guy doesn't know what it takes to build a winning franchise.

O.city
01-15-2012, 05:47 PM
Here is my biggest problem with most GMs these days.


They get hired by a struggling franchise that just fired their GM. They come from a successful franchise where they likely weren't the GM, but think that they played a big part in the success. They immediately try to imitate the processes that went on in the previous job.

I realize you do what you are comfortable with, but at some point you have to do your own thing. Right?

DRU
01-15-2012, 05:48 PM
This whole thing is basically a political argument, and just like politics, it will never be won by either side.

I can't wait until we start receiving information about who our OC will be, what changes we might make in free agency, draft speculation as the draft gets closer, etc. so we can start talking about the fun stuff again.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 05:48 PM
Here is my biggest problem with most GMs these days.


They get hired by a struggling franchise that just fired their GM. They come from a successful franchise where they likely weren't the GM, but think that they played a big part in the success. They immediately try to imitate the processes that went on in the previous job.

I realize you do what you are comfortable with, but at some point you have to do your own thing. Right?

Thomas Dmitroff doesn't appear to have too many problems doing things his own way...

O.city
01-15-2012, 05:49 PM
Thomas Dmitroff doesn't appear to have too many problems doing things his own way...

I was basing this more off what our genious has done.

Guess I shouldn't have said most GMS

Messier
01-15-2012, 05:49 PM
Here's the thing - Cassel is just a symptom.

The guy makes them lock the doors to the media room - reporters have to have an escort to go to the bathroom. He makes staff members with offices that face the field pull their blinds.

All of this non-football stuff is VERY important, especially when you add it to moves like Cassel and Jackson, the dysfunctional relationship with HIS first HC hire, and all of the other actual football moves.

There's mounting evidence to suggest the guy doesn't know what it takes to build a winning franchise.

He might not. I'd say he's got three more years to prove otherwise, not for most here, but for Hunt.

The hard thing is what if the team goes 10-6 or 11-5 or something next year, wins the division, then a couple of 8-8 type seasons under Crennel? I say Hunt still would drop Pioli.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 05:49 PM
This whole thing is basically a political argument, and just like politics, it will never be won by either side.

I can't wait until we start receiving information about who our OC will be, what changes we might make in free agency, draft speculation as the draft gets closer, etc. so we can start talking about the fun stuff again.

What if we hire some Patriot position coach, sign 2 or 3 no-name FAs like last year, and approach the draft like 2009?

Nothing about this is fun right now.

O.city
01-15-2012, 05:50 PM
At this point, htis, what would change your opinion of Pioli?

If we bring in Clements as OC, make some big free agency splashes and have a good draft?

OnTheWarpath58
01-15-2012, 05:51 PM
Thomas Dmitroff doesn't appear to have too many problems doing things his own way...

Because he's the one guy who does things his own way, not the Patriot Way.

EDIT: Derp. Misread the post.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 05:51 PM
He might not. I'd say he's got three more years to prove otherwise, not for most here, but for Hunt.

The hard thing is what if the team goes 10-6 or 11-5 or something next year, wins the division, then a couple of 8-8 type seasons under Crennel? I say Hunt still would drop Pioli.

Unless we get weird seasons like this one, 8-8 would mean no playoffs.

2 playoff berths in 6 years would probably be plenty enough for Clark to let him go.

Messier
01-15-2012, 05:51 PM
What if we hire some Patriot position coach, sign 2 or 3 no-name FAs like last year, and approach the draft like 2009?

Nothing about this is fun right now.

I'll be really concerned if we hire a former Pat coach as OC.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 05:53 PM
At this point, htis, what would change your opinion of Pioli?

If we bring in Clements as OC, make some big free agency splashes and have a good draft?

Honestly, my opinion was starting to change when he fired Haley. Then they locked the doors and started with the CIA bullshit again.

Hiring Romeo is certainly a big problem for me.

I want to see Scott step WAY outside his comfort zone. Stray from the "Patriot" way and do something different for a change.

DRU
01-15-2012, 05:53 PM
What if we hire some Patriot position coach, sign 2 or 3 no-name FAs like last year, and approach the draft like 2009?

Nothing about this is fun right now.

What if we hire some exciting name for OC that every here loves, pick up a solid right tackle in free agency, re-sign carr and bowe, and bring in a QB that will actually beat Cassel in a straight up competition no matter where he comes from?

None of know what's going to happen, so we're focusing on this kinda crap. It's sad, really.

Messier
01-15-2012, 05:56 PM
What if we hire some exciting name for OC that every here loves, pick up a solid right tackle in free agency, re-sign carr and bowe, and bring in a QB that will actually beat Cassel in a straight up competition no matter where he comes from?

None of know what's going to happen, so we're focusing on this kinda crap. It's sad, really.

It is true that while it seems boring, the Chiefs have been really good at retaining their own good players.

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 05:57 PM
What if we hire some exciting name for OC that every here loves, pick up a solid right tackle in free agency, re-sign carr and bowe, and bring in a QB that will actually beat Cassel in a straight up competition no matter where he comes from?

None of know what's going to happen, so we're focusing on this kinda crap. It's sad, really.

Yeah, that's all great to think about.

I think about winning the lottery, and retiring at 32, but much like your hopes, mine aren't coming true either.

We're focusing on these things because this organization is garbage, run by inept assholes.

Count Zarth
01-15-2012, 05:57 PM
Don't forget about the huge depth issues plaguing the team.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 06:00 PM
What if we hire some exciting name for OC that every here loves, pick up a solid right tackle in free agency, re-sign carr and bowe, and bring in a QB that will actually beat Cassel in a straight up competition no matter where he comes from?

None of know what's going to happen, so we're focusing on this kinda crap. It's sad, really.

We don't know what's going to happen, no.

But we do have past history to draw upon.

He hired Haley, who worked for Parcells. He hired Weis. He hired Crennel and then promoted him. Right now I see ZERO reason to hope that he hires some exciting name for OC. Past history suggests he's going to hire some Patriot/Parcells cast-off.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 06:00 PM
It use to be Cassel and Jackson, but Jackson doesn't seem like such a bust, so now it's just Cassel.
i know ... until the Chiefs win in the playoffs and gives them no choice or Cassel is gone it will be one lame ass reason after another.

Hey, i want to win too.

I realize Pioli made 2 big mistakes to start off. 1) he hired Haley 2) he signed Cassel to a big contract instead of looking for an elite type guy.

Haley is gone
Jackson turned out to be decent

If Stanzi turns out to be something or they make a change with Cassel then Pioli has done a pretty solid job.

Fyi - if we would of done what the dumbass crew wanted we would be stuck with shitty overpaid Sanchez instead of shitty overpaid Cassel. So just grabbing whatever QB shows up in the draft is not the answer.

DRU
01-15-2012, 06:02 PM
Yeah, that's all great to think about.

I think about winning the lottery, and retiring at 32, but much like your hopes, mine aren't coming true either.

We're focusing on these things because this organization is garbage, run by inept assholes.

He was talking about one extreme (the negative) and I was talking about the other (the positive). I think we all know we'll probably fall somewhere in the middle.

If you're so unhappy with this organization, why do you continue to support it? You may be talking shit on it, but you're still supporting it with your emotions and the fact that you buy and resell tix all the time, especially considering you usually lose money on them.

Maybe you've already said this in another thread, but are you officially giving up your tix?

oldman
01-15-2012, 06:02 PM
I'll only address the electronic surveillance issues. First of all, there is no way other than a physical plant in a cell phone, for a private person or company to monitor (tap) a cell phone. It has to be done at the switch or by monitoring all the traffic in that carrier's broadcast. Both of these require a warrant. Monitoring company telephones is legal as long as the employee is aware that that might happen or if the other party is given notice. Many companies now require the employee to acknowledge that in writing every year in their code of conduct review. The non-employee party is given notice by the "you call may be monitored" announcement.
Yes, the company does have the right to monitor emails sent from company terminals or using the company's internet connection. This is usually done with the excuse that you may receive a virus, etc. Yes, the company does have the right to monitor your internet usage. This is usually done under the "safe workplace" excuse.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 06:02 PM
i know ... until the Chiefs win in the playoffs and gives them no choice or Cassel is gone it will be one lame ass reason after another.

So let me get this straight - the people that are unhappy with this franchise and its QB are "lame"?

DRU
01-15-2012, 06:04 PM
We don't know what's going to happen, no.

But we do have past history to draw upon.

He hired Haley, who worked for Parcells. He hired Weis. He hired Crennel and then promoted him. Right now I see ZERO reason to hope that he hires some exciting name for OC. Past history suggests he's going to hire some Patriot/Parcells cast-off.

He's been very open about his tree and the Patriot way and all that shit the whole time, though. It's not like he was saying one thing and then doing another.

Now, though, he's fired his mistake of a head coach, and he's saying Romeo has the call on his OC. Why don't we wait and see what happens with that before castrating them?

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 06:04 PM
He was talking about one extreme (the negative) and I was talking about the other (the positive). I think we all know we'll probably fall somewhere in the middle.

If you're so unhappy with this organization, why do you continue to support it? You may be talking shit on it, but you're still supporting it with your emotions and the fact that you buy and resell tix all the time, especially considering you usually lose money on them.

Maybe you've already said this in another thread, but are you officially giving up your tix?

If it were easily possible to give up on years of emotional attachment to team when they underachieve, the NFL wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is now. The Lions, Browns, Chiefs, and several other teams wouldn't even exist.

O.city
01-15-2012, 06:06 PM
I'm waiting to see what happens with this hire.

If they fuck up this offseason, I'm done with em till he's gone.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 06:06 PM
He's been very open about his tree and the Patriot way and all that shit the whole time, though. It's not like he was saying one thing and then doing another.

Now, though, he's saying Romeo has the call on his OC. Why don't we wait and see what happens with that before castrating them?

No but he's also said he doesn't like to part with draft picks, yet he did so for Cassel. He said he wants to build slowly, through the draft, yet he traded for Cassel and gave him a handsome contract, even though Cassel was 27 years old and had never played a down for the Chiefs.

There's a lot of examples if you get down to it.

O.city
01-15-2012, 06:08 PM
I think he saw what this franchise was and what it had personel wise.

He knew Cassel could come in a be a good leader, outspoken, and consistent while the change was occuring.

However, I don't understand why you give him such a big contract.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 06:09 PM
So let me get this straight - the people that are unhappy with this franchise and its QB are "lame"?
reading fail

although you are being pretty lame

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 06:11 PM
I think he saw what this franchise was and what it had personel wise.

He knew Cassel could come in a be a good leader, outspoken, and consistent while the change was occuring.

However, I don't understand why you give him such a big contract.bingo

maybe he thought it sucked so badly that it would take as long as the cassel contract to get better. :shrug:

either way it was a bad decision ... i just hope he realizes and tries to change it.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 06:14 PM
reading fail

although you are being pretty lame

OK, if it's reading fail, explain this statement further:

i know ... until the Chiefs win in the playoffs and gives them no choice or Cassel is gone it will be one lame ass reason after another.

I could care less whether or not you think I'm being lame. Pioli fired Haley so he's alright in your eyes. Completely myopic.

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 06:22 PM
He was talking about one extreme (the negative) and I was talking about the other (the positive). I think we all know we'll probably fall somewhere in the middle.

If you're so unhappy with this organization, why do you continue to support it? You may be talking shit on it, but you're still supporting it with your emotions and the fact that you buy and resell tix all the time, especially considering you usually lose money on them.

Maybe you've already said this in another thread, but are you officially giving up your tix?

Yes, I gave up my tickets. I told them as long as Matt Cassel was here, I had no reason to support the team with season tickets.

You act like it's so easy to just shut off your loyalties as a fan. It's not. I'm also not a programmed robot that's going to embrace everything the Chiefs do as gospel.

The team drives me crazy, I hate the GM, but this is the team I grew up watching and have supposed for 23 years. I'm not someone who just starts following another team. I'm loyal to a fault, but I'm not blinded by this bullshit.

Though, we won't land somewhere in the middle. We land near the negative side just about every year.

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 06:24 PM
No but he's also said he doesn't like to part with draft picks, yet he did so for Cassel. He said he wants to build slowly, through the draft, yet he traded for Cassel and gave him a handsome contract, even though Cassel was 27 years old and had never played a down for the Chiefs.

There's a lot of examples if you get down to it.

Yep. There are.

I don't care how open he's been, saying you're going to hire one type of coach because of familiarity is how this team got to be so shitty under Carl.

The same stuff is happening over, and over, and over again.

He's literally excluding countless choices because they didn't have some seven degrees of separation from Bill Parcells.

O.city
01-15-2012, 06:28 PM
Bad Guy, have you heard anything about this column coming out from the inside. Or more what is the feeling of the inside about this?

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 06:28 PM
OK, if it's reading fail, explain this statement further:

I could care less whether or not you think I'm being lame. Pioli fired Haley so he's alright in your eyes. Completely myopic.
i said 'it will be one lame ass reason after another'

do you really need me to give you an grammar lesson about how 'lame ass' is an adjective describing the 'reasons'?

pretty sad since my grammar sucks

I also never said that everything Pioli does is 'alright'

a few posts ago i addressed his mistakes and how i hope it's not a 'flaw' in the way Pioli is going to do things. I also said i hope the Pioli doesn't have to fail here in KC before he learns to be flexible etc etc.

I'm just not ready to cry every day in every thread about the same thing over and over again. Go back and search your posts recently ... how many can basically be summed up with "cassel sucks, damnit pioli!"? What, like 80%? They aren't the constructive,discussion type posts either ... they are the whiny, passive-aggressive-WTF-is-the-point, type posts. You're better than this.

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 06:30 PM
Bad Guy, have you heard anything about this column coming out from the inside. Or more what is the feeling of the inside about this?

Nothing.

I've sent 2 emails to this guy and he hasn't replied, which is odd considering I normally get a response a few hours later.

Dave Lane
01-15-2012, 06:30 PM
If 10% of this is true we are fucked.

O.city
01-15-2012, 06:31 PM
Nothing.

I've sent 2 emails to this guy and he hasn't replied, which is odd considering I normally get a response a few hours later.

Maybe Piolis goons got to him with the phone and email tapping.

Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 06:32 PM
If 10% of this is true we are ****ed.
why?

Chocolate Hog
01-15-2012, 06:35 PM
Nothing.

I've sent 2 emails to this guy and he hasn't replied, which is odd considering I normally get a response a few hours later.

They got his shit tapped!

Brock
01-15-2012, 06:38 PM
Yes, the company does have the right to monitor emails sent from company terminals or using the company's internet connection. This is usually done with the excuse that you may receive a virus, etc. Yes, the company does have the right to monitor your internet usage. This is usually done under the "safe workplace" excuse.

It isn't "usually done" for any reason other than when you're on company property, using the company network, on company time, they can do whatever they want. It's a condition of your employment.

DRU
01-15-2012, 06:46 PM
Yes, I gave up my tickets. I told them as long as Matt Cassel was here, I had no reason to support the team with season tickets.

You act like it's so easy to just shut off your loyalties as a fan. It's not. I'm also not a programmed robot that's going to embrace everything the Chiefs do as gospel.

The team drives me crazy, I hate the GM, but this is the team I grew up watching and have supposed for 23 years. I'm not someone who just starts following another team. I'm loyal to a fault, but I'm not blinded by this bullshit.

Though, we won't land somewhere in the middle. We land near the negative side just about every year.

That's not how I act at all. I'm a born and raised fan of 25 years, so believe me, I know exactly how you feel.

I still enjoy Arrowhead stadium when it's rockin, though, and we're not far from it. I'm not going to give up my tix and complain about it all the time. It's not worth it to do that.

I enjoy conversations with other fans about this team, sharing opinions about what should happen, discussing the facts about what actually does happen, and seeing it how it all plays out on the field.

Pioli has not done that bad of a job if we really step back and look at things. He pulled the trigger on a QB when he first got here because yes, he does know the QB is important. Unfortunately, it didn't work out the way he planned. Because of that, though, he's all we've got right now.

They're making more changes to try and right some wrongs. I hope just as much as anybody that QB is a position they target heavily one way or another.

Again, though, this is where all the bitterness is. The QB situation. Not the business operations. We're just looking for reasons to bitch and moan, and Babb gave it to us.

DRU
01-15-2012, 06:49 PM
I'm just not ready to cry every day in every thread about the same thing over and over again. Go back and search your posts recently ... how many can basically be summed up with "cassel sucks, damnit pioli!"? What, like 80%? They aren't the constructive,discussion type posts either ... they are the whiny, passive-aggressive-WTF-is-the-point, type posts. You're better than this.

Exactly.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 06:54 PM
LMAO Yeah, either that or Haley is a slightly unbalanced person who thinks the world is out to get him.

In this season, the Chiefs, which have an incredibly tight-lipped organization, leaked out two bits of information about Haley being at a Lil Wayne concert. And secondly, "going out" the night before a game. The second incident, if you believe Danny Parkins, was strange in the way the source tried to pretend like he accidentally made a mistake in calling the wrong person. It seems very likely that the Chiefs' front office was purposely trying to sabotage Haley's reputation to set him up to be fired. So in that case, he was paranoid about the right stuff. And it also makes you question... how did the team know what he was doing outside of work?

And again, it's very possible he was paranoid because the Chiefs were in fact monitoring more than they should have. Not illegally, just unethically. What we know right now for sure is that Pioli, the guy being accused, has a very bad history of taping things he's not supposed to be even when he knows it's outside the rules (Spygate). We're hearing that Pioli was requesting month old e-mails and call logs to use as damning evidence against Denny Thum. And what we're hearing is a ton of smoke that employees, not just Haley, were all under constant paranoia that everything they did and said was being monitored.

Here's what I'm guessing happened. And again, this is only an educated guess. My guess is that Haley had, over 3 years, become very, very careful about what he talked about where. I bet that despite being careful, he still found that the team somehow knew what he was up to. And I imagine that became more concerning when that included his private life too. While I doubt his cell phone was tampered with, I wouldn't be surprised if his conversations on company grounds were all heavily monitoried and a lot moreso than anyone else on the team. There is plenty of fact and tons of smoke in this story that leads you to believe that some of that paranoia may have been justified and that he wasn't the only one.

O.city
01-15-2012, 06:59 PM
Zilla, I think you are a little off here. Because of your feelings that Haley can and will indeed be a good HC in the league you tend to side with him.

The Lil wayne thing wasn't leaked. It was stated on Twitter by players and by Lil wayne himself. It didn't come out until the day after, and I know guys who actually seen him there.

Do I think there is some stupid shit going on, probably. I think Haley might have lost it a little and went over the edge also.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 07:06 PM
That's not how I act at all. I'm a born and raised fan of 25 years, so believe me, I know exactly how you feel.

I still enjoy Arrowhead stadium when it's rockin, though, and we're not far from it. I'm not going to give up my tix and complain about it all the time. It's not worth it to do that.

I enjoy conversations with other fans about this team, sharing opinions about what should happen, discussing the facts about what actually does happen, and seeing it how it all plays out on the field.

Pioli has not done that bad of a job if we really step back and look at things. He pulled the trigger on a QB when he first got here because yes, he does know the QB is important. Unfortunately, it didn't work out the way he planned. Because of that, though, he's all we've got right now.

They're making more changes to try and right some wrongs. I hope just as much as anybody that QB is a position they target heavily one way or another.

Again, though, this is where all the bitterness is. The QB situation. Not the business operations. We're just looking for reasons to bitch and moan, and Babb gave it to us.

I think Pioli has done a pretty decent job with his personnel. And I think he will continue to do so. And everyone's right that if the team starts winning championships, everyone will forget this article. In my opinion, players don't really care too much about the toxicity of the front office work environment.

My concern continues to be about the future of this organization. There was already a suspicion that this was a toxic place to work, and the Haley thing probably made some coaches pause. First, I'm not excited about the Romeo hiring and I truly believe that it was the result of either or both: 1) the team being too close-minded to look outside the tree; 2) the inability to bring coaches in from the outside because they know what Haley went through. Second, I worry big time about good talent leaving our front office. Phil Emery is being approached right now for GM positions. Who knows if we'll start to see some disgruntled staff from our scouting and personnel department start to leave, in which case, I think those positions will be much more difficult to fill now that prospective candidates know what kind of a toxic work environment to expect.

So a few things I see coming. I think as this team becomes more of Romeo's, in 2 years, we're going to see Haley's disciplinary influence wear off and this team is going to start playing sloppy again. I call it Norv Turner syndrome. However, because Romeo won some games and I think he could definitely take the team to two consecutive playoffs, that could be just enough to keep Pioli's job safe for a while. After those 2 years, you expect that Romeo will near retirement. After that, I think it's going to be difficult to bring in a top-flight coaching hire, just as it was difficult for Oakland to do given their reputation. These are reasons why I think the article is important. If it's true that the environment in Arrowhead is toxic, I think we're going to see some tremendous drop-off in talent at both our personnel guys and our coaches.

DRU
01-15-2012, 07:07 PM
how did the team know what he was doing outside of work?

In today's age of mobile technology, no public figure can keep anything a secret no matter who they work for.

Some NFL players and their head coach go to the concert of a popular artist and you really think their management wouldn't find out about it whether they cared or not?

DRU
01-15-2012, 07:12 PM
If it's true that the environment in Arrowhead is toxic, I think we're going to see some tremendous drop-off in talent at both our personnel guys and our coaches.

Right...IF it's true. The only one's saying it's true are people who are no longer there, and some who aren't there anymore are also saying it's not a big deal, but just what you'd expect from a regime change like they've been through before.

If it is true, then yes, I share all of your same concerns. I just don't see how so many people can let the media steer their thought process any which direction they want, whether it's about football or anything else.

Stories, quotes, etc. can be spun however people want to spin them. Some are very good at it, too.

Not sure if you saw my comment about ESPN and the UFC from an earlier post, but ESPN aired their piece about it this morning, and Dana White already posted a clip that they so conveniently left out. It's already interesting. He'll be posting their full interview footage before long. We can all probably get a good sample of what the media can do by looking at that sample.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 07:16 PM
Zilla, I think you are a little off here. Because of your feelings that Haley can and will indeed be a good HC in the league you tend to side with him.

The Lil wayne thing wasn't leaked. It was stated on Twitter by players and by Lil wayne himself. It didn't come out until the day after, and I know guys who actually seen him there.

Do I think there is some stupid shit going on, probably. I think Haley might have lost it a little and went over the edge also.

Good point on the Lil Wayne comment. The other information leak... that's a lot more sketchy. On Haley, I recognize that both sides did some stupid stuff during his time. But I also don't think it's outside of the realm that all communications Haley made within Arrowhead's walls were monitored and, more importantly, scrutinized. Given the tremendous lengths the Chiefs allegedly went to use that sort of information to bring down Denny Thum, I wouldn't be surprised if that same sort of deal was being done to Haley.

So while we don't know the answer for sure, I think this article most definitely brings up two interesting hypotheses: 1) Haley was a paranoid schizo and grossly overreacted; 2) Haley was paranoid but the team did some over-the-top tactics most organizations do not do that drove him to that level of paranoia. I tend to think it's a little of both, but think there's enough smoke to believe there was a lot of the latter.

O.city
01-15-2012, 07:18 PM
Good point on the Lil Wayne comment. The other information leak... that's a lot more sketchy. On Haley, I recognize that both sides did some stupid stuff during his time. But I also don't think it's outside of the realm that all communications Haley made within Arrowhead's walls were monitored and, more importantly, scrutinized. Given the tremendous lengths the Chiefs allegedly went to use that sort of information to bring down Denny Thum, I wouldn't be surprised if that same sort of deal was being done to Haley.

So while we don't know the answer for sure, I think this article most definitely brings up two interesting hypotheses: 1) Haley was a paranoid schizo and grossly overreacted; 2) Haley was paranoid but the team did some over-the-top tactics most organizations do not do that drove him to that level of paranoia. I tend to think it's a little of both, but think there's enough smoke to believe there was a lot of the latter.

I didn't mean to sound overly critical as you have brought up some great points.

I think alot of shit went wrong with Haley and there was fault on both sides. However, he's gone now and I think this is one of hte most critical offseasons the Chiefs have had in a long time.

Things could go two ways in my opinion.

They coudl bring in a great OC, great free agents, have a really good draft and be contenders in a year or two. Or they could be shitty in all phases and we are cleansing this house again in 2 years.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 07:21 PM
i said 'it will be one lame ass reason after another'

do you really need me to give you an grammar lesson about how 'lame ass' is an adjective describing the 'reasons'?

Reasons for what? What reasons?

Why don't you just admit that you look down your nose at fellow Chief fans? They're apparently not worth of your intellect, are they?

I'm just not ready to cry every day in every thread about the same thing over and over again. Go back and search your posts recently ... how many can basically be summed up with "cassel sucks, damnit pioli!"? What, like 80%? They aren't the constructive,discussion type posts either ... they are the whiny, passive-aggressive-WTF-is-the-point, type posts. You're better than this.

Cassel is the #1 problem with this team. THE problem. Until he's replaced, there's nothing more to talk about. There is no hope for the future. No amount of free agent moves will amount to success. Nothing.

What would you like to discuss then?

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 07:21 PM
Right...IF it's true. The only one's saying it's true are people who are no longer there, and some who aren't there anymore are also saying it's not a big deal, but just what you'd expect from a regime change like they've been through before.

If it is true, then yes, I share all of your same concerns. I just don't see how so many people can let the media steer their thought process any which direction they want, whether it's about football or anything else.

Stories, quotes, etc. can be spun however people want to spin them. Some are very good at it, too.

Not sure if you saw my comment about ESPN and the UFC from an earlier post, but ESPN aired their piece about it this morning, and Dana White already posted a clip that they so conveniently left out. It's already interesting. He'll be posting their full interview footage before long. We can all probably get a good sample of what the media can do by looking at that sample.

No, that's not true. For most of the concerns, Donovan or Farmer or a current associate admit that the stories are true. In other stories, e.g. the Denny Thum bit, he was careful to disclose that not all sources had been contacted. Even with the "tapping" of communications, he has multiple sources from Hunt to the HR person giving statements of denial that they do not know of any of that activity going on.

While the article does skew to one opinion, it is very balanced in that most issues were allowed to be addressed by the counter-party. This is more than just some one-sided argument. The Chiefs offered a counter-point to most points--it's up to the general public to decide which side they believe, but it seems to me that Babb used fair enough quotes from the counter-party to build their case in an effective way.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 07:23 PM
I didn't mean to sound overly critical as you have brought up some great points.

I think alot of shit went wrong with Haley and there was fault on both sides. However, he's gone now and I think this is one of hte most critical offseasons the Chiefs have had in a long time.

Things could go two ways in my opinion.

They coudl bring in a great OC, great free agents, have a really good draft and be contenders in a year or two. Or they could be shitty in all phases and we are cleansing this house again in 2 years.

I think these stories might affect the OC hire. I don't think it affects our draft or personnel in the short-term. I do think there is tremendous potential that it could very negatively affect our ability to hire a future head coach and to keep/bring in good talent in the front office. So the good news is, I think at least for 2 years, this team could be very fun to watch.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 07:24 PM
Again, though, this is where all the bitterness is. The QB situation. Not the business operations. We're just looking for reasons to bitch and moan, and Babb gave it to us.

Actually, I've been talking about the business operations stuff since the day I came back, before Haley was even fired.

Because it DOES matter.

But nobody really wants to talk about it. And I never even MENTIONED Cassel in those threads.

O.city
01-15-2012, 07:26 PM
I think these stories might affect the OC hire. I don't think it affects our draft or personnel in the short-term. I do think there is tremendous potential that it could very negatively affect our ability to hire a future head coach and to keep/bring in good talent in the front office. So the good news is, I think at least for 2 years, this team could be very fun to watch.

You could be right.



Maybe I'm to naive, but I think we are getting pretty close to being serious contenders.

Overall we have built this team the way you build sustainable, competitive teams. Thru the draft.

I think this team has enough leadership to keep it on the right path, after our boyscout draft of 10, so I don't think it's gets that undisciplined.

DRU
01-15-2012, 07:50 PM
I think these stories might affect the OC hire. I don't think it affects our draft or personnel in the short-term. I do think there is tremendous potential that it could very negatively affect our ability to hire a future head coach and to keep/bring in good talent in the front office. So the good news is, I think at least for 2 years, this team could be very fun to watch.

For a small bit of insight on where I'm coming from with all of this, check this out.

I mentioned in a previous post about the place I used to work got raided by the FBI and the news coverage of it was completely false and misleading. Here is the actual news clip from that day. Take a look, it's only 45 seconds.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ijc1gzNpVdA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

After watching that, let me now tell you the facts in order of what they had wrong (which was nearly everything.)

- DealExpress does not have 8 locations. They have 1 single location.

- They were not investigating pirated product, but rather counterfeit product. While similar, these things are different and the misuse of terminology can drastically effect ones view of the story.

- It didn't have anything to do with general electronics like TVs or stereo's at all. It was Cisco networking equipment that was being questioned.

- The 50+ FBI agents (that part was actually accurate) found 3 small, empty Cisco boxes which were proven to be legit and came from Cisco themselves. You can actually see the guy carrying these 3 boxes onto a truck at the end of the clip when the guy says "agents loaded up rental trucks with evidence" as if they had truck loads of stuff. Nope, just 3 small, legit boxes.

Rather than report about how much of a waste of tax payer money it was having 50+ FBI agents raid this place, and rather than provide ANY of the information that we employees gave them which completely negated everything they were trying to dig up (at 24 seconds you'll see me in the background getting interviewed by an FBI agent), they proceeded to fabricate this entire story because eBay fraud was a hot topic at the time.

This was the day I decided I would never take anything from the media seriously again.

Now, that was a long example of why I do NOT think this will effect our future coaching hires. These coaches and people in the NFL in general live this type of thing every single day with the media. They see first hand how full of shit the media is all the time, and I highly doubt they would ever allow it to weigh on their minds during an important decision they're making about their own lives.

O.city
01-15-2012, 07:54 PM
This did make the Rumor part of ESPN so it's getting out there.


I think either way it's win win.

Either things are changed or things suck and Pioli is fired.

Dave Lane
01-15-2012, 07:58 PM
I would KILL for a Haley sit down, tell all interview right about now.

Would you kill Pioli though?

KCChiefsFan88
01-15-2012, 08:00 PM
We all wanted things to change when Peterson was the GM.

Clean house, change the environment, bring in new blood we all wanted.

Now it has happened and we all bitch. Pioli is taking it over the edge to far of course, but this franchise needed a good cleansing. 40 plus years of mediocrity really stains things.

I think it's bullshit going to the extent that they are about stupid shit, when they should be more focused on putting a winning product on the field. I think they have done a good job building up that product and keeping good young talent around, they are just a few pieces away.

We on Cp tend to be overly critical and demanding. Which is why I love this place so much. I consider most on here to be some of the most die hard Chiefs fans. However some times I think we don't really look at the whole picture objectively.

I could care less how the things are run at Arrowhead if they put a championship product on the field. I think if we get the three superstars back from injury next year we are close to doing that.

IMO we are a few pieces away from being legit contenders. This article could be the piece that makes those incharge realize that it's time to be bold.

Sorry for the rambling, just my .02 cents.

I have no problem with Fat Scott making drastic changes to the organization... it was long overdue.

The problem is in wins/losses.

The Chiefs are 21-28 under Fat Scott.

The Chiefs could turn their organization into North Korea and if they were winning I could care less.

notorious
01-15-2012, 08:03 PM
I have no problem with Fat Scott making drastic changes to the organization... it was long overdue.

The problem is in wins/losses.

The Chiefs are 21-28 under Fat Scott.

The Chiefs could turn their organization into North Korea and if they were winning I could care less.

This.


Again.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 08:06 PM
I have no problem with Fat Scott making drastic changes to the organization... it was long overdue.

The problem is in wins/losses.

The Chiefs are 21-28 under Fat Scott.

The Chiefs could turn their organization into North Korea and if they were winning I could care less.

That's the just the thing. Turn them into North Korea or turn them into Hollywood - NEITHER has any effect whatsoever on wins and losses.

It's not suprising that Scott Pioli locks doors and pulls blinds - he thinks those things give him a competitive advantage, just like video taping opposition practices gives an advantage.

O.city
01-15-2012, 08:15 PM
Guys, it's all gonna work out.

Next year when Stanzi sets the world ablaze, after we have a fantastic offseason, this will all be ok.

htismaqe
01-15-2012, 08:18 PM
Guys, it's all gonna work out.

Next year when Stanzi sets the world ablaze, after we have a fantastic offseason, this will all be ok.

I wish I had some of what you're smokin. :)

Dave Lane
01-15-2012, 08:19 PM
I'm sorry, defiantly continuing to start Palko, knowing he is the worst QB on the roster, is something that should always come back to haunt Haley in the future. He absolutely had to go.

Hi Scott I knew you were here somewhere.

O.city
01-15-2012, 08:21 PM
I wish I had some of what you're smokin. :)

Nah man.


Stanzi is gonna be the bauce here next year. I really think he will be the next big thing in the league.

NJChiefsFan
01-15-2012, 09:03 PM
Nah man.


Stanzi is gonna be the bauce here next year. I really think he will be the next big thing in the league.

You have been on a major positive streak recently. I hope you are right, but I can't be that positive about it. I am not even sure what kind of crap will need to happen outside of an injury that lets Stanzi even prove that next year.

O.city
01-15-2012, 09:07 PM
He's gonna go into training camp, after having a great offseason. He's gonna work his ass off wanting to become the guy in KC.

He then will beat out Matt Cassel as the starter, in a training camp competition.

chiefzilla1501
01-15-2012, 09:34 PM
For a small bit of insight on where I'm coming from with all of this, check this out.

I mentioned in a previous post about the place I used to work got raided by the FBI and the news coverage of it was completely false and misleading. Here is the actual news clip from that day. Take a look, it's only 45 seconds.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Ijc1gzNpVdA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

After watching that, let me now tell you the facts in order of what they had wrong (which was nearly everything.)

- DealExpress does not have 8 locations. They have 1 single location.

- They were not investigating pirated product, but rather counterfeit product. While similar, these things are different and the misuse of terminology can drastically effect ones view of the story.

- It didn't have anything to do with general electronics like TVs or stereo's at all. It was Cisco networking equipment that was being questioned.

- The 50+ FBI agents (that part was actually accurate) found 3 small, empty Cisco boxes which were proven to be legit and came from Cisco themselves. You can actually see the guy carrying these 3 boxes onto a truck at the end of the clip when the guy says "agents loaded up rental trucks with evidence" as if they had truck loads of stuff. Nope, just 3 small, legit boxes.

Rather than report about how much of a waste of tax payer money it was having 50+ FBI agents raid this place, and rather than provide ANY of the information that we employees gave them which completely negated everything they were trying to dig up (at 24 seconds you'll see me in the background getting interviewed by an FBI agent), they proceeded to fabricate this entire story because eBay fraud was a hot topic at the time.

This was the day I decided I would never take anything from the media seriously again.

Now, that was a long example of why I do NOT think this will effect our future coaching hires. These coaches and people in the NFL in general live this type of thing every single day with the media. They see first hand how full of shit the media is all the time, and I highly doubt they would ever allow it to weigh on their minds during an important decision they're making about their own lives.

And again, I understand your distrust, but I'd also say that lumping this kind of a story with a trashy expose` is ridiculous. I used to work right next to a PR guy and have taken several writing classes. Trust me, I know the ins and outs of how the media will manipulate a story. One news station doing one of those stupid consumer protection exposes got a tip from a disgruntled employee that the company was throwing out customer records in a dumpster instead of shredding them. 100% untrue. Our PR guy was calling nonstop for a week, but the guy refused to listen to his story. Instead, the guy went on air without us being allowed to say a single word to defend ourself. I know the way the system works.

This, on the other hand, is a well-written story. You may disagree with what Babb has to say. But it's well sourced, it's balanced in viewpoint, and it doesn't appear that any quotes were taken out of context. And in most cases, the accused party was allowed to present their side of the story. And most of the accusations made in this story were confirmed as true by Donovan and Farmer, two guys who appear to be pro-Pioli.

Molitoth
01-15-2012, 09:37 PM
After a while, a saying was adopted by top administrators for behavior that didnít fit the new standards: ďThatís so 2-and-14,Ē they would say, referring to the Chiefsí win-loss record in 2008

After a while, a saying is going to be adopted by top administrators for behavior that didn't fit the new standards: "That's so Matt Cassel".

Messier
01-15-2012, 09:40 PM
Hi Scott I knew you were here somewhere.

Hi Mrs. Haley, knew you were here too.

boogblaster
01-15-2012, 11:00 PM
kneel before me ... and laid down your arms ... ive done nothing but build a better team and surround it with loyal servants .. scott ......

Sorter
01-16-2012, 12:25 AM
While I agree with the idea that Stanzi will prove himself next year, I doubt it happens as a week 1 starter. I bet that we suffer through a few weeks of Cassel performances before it takes place

KCtotheSB
01-16-2012, 04:52 AM
Are we..um......are we being watched....?

Chief Henry
01-16-2012, 07:30 AM
If this NEW hardass mngt. style leads to success on the field (so far it hasn't) then we will all be happy, very happy. This organization NEEDED massive amounts of CHANGE. Pioli has the keys, for now.

kysirsoze
01-16-2012, 08:10 AM
It sounds to me like the truth is in here somewhere, but it's filtered through a lot of butthurt from fired employees who have a bone to pick. If I got to work at a place with no discipline and was never held accountable for mistakes, I'd be pissed to if I was suddenly fired for being shitty at my job.

The candy wrapper thing? Who cares? It sounds like he was just using it as an obviously small example of the attitude of the organization as a whole.

The bugging thing is unsettling, though. That's something I'd like to have more proof of, but if true that is borderline insane.

Mojo Jojo
01-16-2012, 08:19 AM
It sounds to me like the truth is in here somewhere, but it's filtered through a lot of butthurt from fired employees who have a bone to pick. If I got to work at a place with no discipline and was never held accountable for mistakes, I'd be pissed to if I was suddenly fired for being shitty at my job.

The candy wrapper thing? Who cares? It sounds like he was just using it as an obviously small example of the attitude of the organization as a whole.

The bugging thing is unsettling, though. That's something I'd like to have more proof of, but if true that is borderline insane.
What you fail to know...most of those people were the best in the NFL at doing their jobs. Other teams would come and learn from them. Scott just wants change for change.

Mojo Jojo
01-16-2012, 08:21 AM
If this NEW hardass mngt. style leads to success on the field (so far it hasn't) then we will all be happy, very happy. This organization NEEDED massive amounts of CHANGE. Pioli has the keys, for now.
Most of these changes have nothing to do with on the field product.

kysirsoze
01-16-2012, 08:48 AM
What you fail to know...most of those people were the best in the NFL at doing their jobs. Other teams would come and learn from them. Scott just wants change for change.

That's entirely possible. If they had absolutely nothing to do with the on the field product, then there's no way for me to know. There's also no way for me to care.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 09:03 AM
The bugging thing is unsettling, though. That's something I'd like to have more proof of, but if true that is borderline insane.

Locking the media in their room and not allowing them to go to the bathroom without an escort IS insane.

The media is not going to give up your gameplan to other teams, Scott.

But then again, it's not surprising you treat guests this way. Your other team used to video tape other teams practicing...

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 09:08 AM
It sounds to me like the truth is in here somewhere, but it's filtered through a lot of butthurt from fired employees who have a bone to pick. If I got to work at a place with no discipline and was never held accountable for mistakes, I'd be pissed to if I was suddenly fired for being shitty at my job.

The candy wrapper thing? Who cares? It sounds like he was just using it as an obviously small example of the attitude of the organization as a whole.

The bugging thing is unsettling, though. That's something I'd like to have more proof of, but if true that is borderline insane.

THIS.

I read the article this weekend but didn't have a chance to respond. Figured this thread would be full of butthurt and MOTHERFUCK YOU SCOTT PIOLI'S!

But really......i'm glad. Sounds like the Chiefs F/O is getting it's shit together to me.

I have a real life experience almost EXACTLY like this when a movie theater I use to work at got a new GM.....

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 09:09 AM
And and btw, if we had a QB, we'd be winning, and none of this would ever matter.

O.city
01-16-2012, 09:20 AM
Next year, when Stanzi lights shit up, this will be all forgotten.

Chiefnj2
01-16-2012, 09:21 AM
Locking the media in their room and not allowing them to go to the bathroom without an escort IS insane.

The media is not going to give up your gameplan to other teams, Scott.

But then again, it's not surprising you treat guests this way. Your other team used to video tape other teams practicing...

I wonder what he saw, or heard, or did, with NE that made him so paranoid.

FringeNC
01-16-2012, 09:25 AM
Gretz weighs in:

From Bobgretz.com:

Several thoughts on the Kansas City Star finally catching up to the fact that employment with the Kansas City Chiefs these days is working in a toxic environment. The newspaper did so in a front page story in Sundayís edition, headlined Arrowhead Anxiety. In case you missed it, hereís the link where you can read what they had to say.

First, itís a good story that shined light on a dark corner of the operations that those that control the Chiefs would rather have been kept quiet. Second, although itís a lengthy story it only scratched the surface of how dysfunctional the organization is these days. Third, the person most responsible for the atmosphere of fear and anxiety around the organization took the fewest number of verbal arrows Ė team chairman Clark Hunt.

This story has been under construction for several weeks; maybe a month and the Chiefs were well aware of the details. But in the typical fashion of the way the organization is run these days, they attempted to strong arm the Star, demanding the names of the anonymous sources in the story and threatening a law suit. Not once, but twice the Chiefs took this tact with the local fish wrap in the last few weeks.

Having spent a dozen years getting ink on my hands, including nine of those with the Star, I can tell you what happens when a business, politician or sports team threatens a newspaper. The folks in charge suddenly realize they have a story thatís even bigger than they thought. The reaction of Huntís minions simply increased the visibility that the story was going to receive. It showed his people in charge of public relations have no idea how to deal with the media.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 09:27 AM
Gretz weighs in:

From Bobgretz.com:

Several thoughts on the Kansas City Star finally catching up to the fact that employment with the Kansas City Chiefs these days is working in a toxic environment. The newspaper did so in a front page story in Sundayís edition, headlined Arrowhead Anxiety. In case you missed it, hereís the link where you can read what they had to say.

First, itís a good story that shined light on a dark corner of the operations that those that control the Chiefs would rather have been kept quiet. Second, although itís a lengthy story it only scratched the surface of how dysfunctional the organization is these days. Third, the person most responsible for the atmosphere of fear and anxiety around the organization took the fewest number of verbal arrows Ė team chairman Clark Hunt.

This story has been under construction for several weeks; maybe a month and the Chiefs were well aware of the details. But in the typical fashion of the way the organization is run these days, they attempted to strong arm the Star, demanding the names of the anonymous sources in the story and threatening a law suit. Not once, but twice the Chiefs took this tact with the local fish wrap in the last few weeks.

Having spent a dozen years getting ink on my hands, including nine of those with the Star, I can tell you what happens when a business, politician or sports team threatens a newspaper. The folks in charge suddenly realize they have a story thatís even bigger than they thought. The reaction of Huntís minions simply increased the visibility that the story was going to receive. It showed his people in charge of public relations have no idea how to deal with the media.

ROFL

But, but, but the media! And Haley said! But, but, but...

keg in kc
01-16-2012, 09:31 AM
What I took out of that gretz quote was a little different. He talks like this is Hunt's way of doing business.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-16-2012, 09:31 AM
Gretz weighs in:

From Bobgretz.com:

Several thoughts on the Kansas City Star finally catching up to the fact that employment with the Kansas City Chiefs these days is working in a toxic environment. The newspaper did so in a front page story in Sundayís edition, headlined Arrowhead Anxiety. In case you missed it, hereís the link where you can read what they had to say.

First, itís a good story that shined light on a dark corner of the operations that those that control the Chiefs would rather have been kept quiet. Second, although itís a lengthy story it only scratched the surface of how dysfunctional the organization is these days. Third, the person most responsible for the atmosphere of fear and anxiety around the organization took the fewest number of verbal arrows Ė team chairman Clark Hunt.

This story has been under construction for several weeks; maybe a month and the Chiefs were well aware of the details. But in the typical fashion of the way the organization is run these days, they attempted to strong arm the Star, demanding the names of the anonymous sources in the story and threatening a law suit. Not once, but twice the Chiefs took this tact with the local fish wrap in the last few weeks.

Having spent a dozen years getting ink on my hands, including nine of those with the Star, I can tell you what happens when a business, politician or sports team threatens a newspaper. The folks in charge suddenly realize they have a story thatís even bigger than they thought. The reaction of Huntís minions simply increased the visibility that the story was going to receive. It showed his people in charge of public relations have no idea how to deal with the media.

So the team is running like a well oiled machine then.

They should put some oil in it though I guess.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 09:32 AM
What you fail to know...most of those people were the best in the NFL at doing their jobs. Other teams would come and learn from them. Scott just wants change for change.

This is true. The business side needed some tweaking and little youth movement but not to the extreme in which happened.

Chiefnj2
01-16-2012, 09:33 AM
If this becomes more of a national story, will the bathrooms be unlocked a few more days like the day Romeo was hired?

O.city
01-16-2012, 09:33 AM
Damn, somethings going down over all this.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 09:40 AM
Gretz weighs in:

From Bobgretz.com:

Several thoughts on the Kansas City Star finally catching up to the fact that employment with the Kansas City Chiefs these days is working in a toxic environment. The newspaper did so in a front page story in Sundayís edition, headlined Arrowhead Anxiety. In case you missed it, hereís the link where you can read what they had to say.

First, itís a good story that shined light on a dark corner of the operations that those that control the Chiefs would rather have been kept quiet. Second, although itís a lengthy story it only scratched the surface of how dysfunctional the organization is these days. Third, the person most responsible for the atmosphere of fear and anxiety around the organization took the fewest number of verbal arrows Ė team chairman Clark Hunt.

This story has been under construction for several weeks; maybe a month and the Chiefs were well aware of the details. But in the typical fashion of the way the organization is run these days, they attempted to strong arm the Star, demanding the names of the anonymous sources in the story and threatening a law suit. Not once, but twice the Chiefs took this tact with the local fish wrap in the last few weeks.

Having spent a dozen years getting ink on my hands, including nine of those with the Star, I can tell you what happens when a business, politician or sports team threatens a newspaper. The folks in charge suddenly realize they have a story thatís even bigger than they thought. The reaction of Huntís minions simply increased the visibility that the story was going to receive. It showed his people in charge of public relations have no idea how to deal with the media.

What's so Toxic? Are people selling blow in the bathrooms? Hookers lining up outside Arrowhead Drive?

Or is it Toxic because the boss is a big meany and demanding that their job be done right with no slacking, and then holding them accountable when they don't do their job correctly?

Sounds like a culture shock to me. Sounds Like Lamar had it running like a family, and Clark has it running like a fortune 500 business.

Chiefnj2
01-16-2012, 09:43 AM
What's so Toxic? Are people selling blow in the bathrooms? Hookers lining up outside Arrowhead Drive?

Or is it Toxic because the boss is a big meany and demanding that their job be done right with no slacking, and then holding them accountable when they don't do their job correctly?

Sounds like a culture shock to me. Sounds Like Lamar had it running like a family, and Clark has it running like a fortune 500 business.

When people are afraid to talk to co-workers in other departments and area afraid to be seen going to lunch with each other, it doesn't seem like a comfortable work place. I'd rather have employees focusing on work and not being worried if they spend an extra 3 minutes in the bathroom or are "caught" talking to someone from accounting.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 09:43 AM
Or is it Toxic because the boss is a big meany and demanding that their job be done right with no slacking, and then holding them accountable when they don't do their job correctly?

You mean like Matt Cassel?

Or maybe SCOTT PIOLI?

This whole statement is hilarious. As if Pioli and Hunt are in a position to insist on excellence. Pioli hasn't seen excellence since he left New England. ROFL

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 09:44 AM
When people are afraid to talk to co-workers in other departments and area afraid to be seen going to lunch with each other, it doesn't seem like a comfortable work place. I'd rather have employees focusing on work and not being worried if they spend an extra 3 minutes in the bathroom or are "caught" talking to someone from accounting.

Some people don't understand productivity in the workplace.

Messier
01-16-2012, 09:44 AM
ROFL

But, but, but the media! And Haley said! But, but, but...

So Gretz believes this is just scratching the surface. Then I take it he believes criminal charges need to be levied against Hunt and Pioli, because the article implies they are committing a federal crime.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 09:46 AM
Some people don't understand productivity in the workplace.

Agreed. Nobody's ever heard of silos or workplace engagement?

This is one of those examples of taking accountability one step too far. It's one thing to distrust people outside the organization. It's another thing when you don't trust anyone within your own building.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 09:46 AM
You mean like Matt Cassel?

Or maybe SCOTT PIOLI?

This whole statement is hilarious. As if Pioli and Hunt are in a position to insist on excellence. Pioli hasn't seen excellence since he left New England. ROFL

Ok, so because they whiffed on a QB they should just just let the rest of the franchise rot, right?

O.city
01-16-2012, 09:48 AM
Ok, so because they whiffed on a QB they should just just let the rest of the franchise rot, right?

IMO it's more because they have stuck with him, when he has looked so shitty.

tk13
01-16-2012, 09:49 AM
You go back and remember... I believe it was Kevin Harlan that said before the season even began that he was hearing things about the working environment at Arrowhead that were really disturbing. Something like that. I can't remember his exact words... I think there was an ESPN guy or two also that said things were really dysfunctional. So Gretz is right that it has been floating out there for a while. Although I think we all just assumed it was fights between Haley/Pioli, maybe he meant something else.

O.city
01-16-2012, 09:51 AM
People wanted change from the Peterson era.


Well, there ya go. Federal Crimes.

O.city
01-16-2012, 09:53 AM
If I were the front office, I would come out and make changes now.

Make a statement saying we went a little to far with tsome things and we are cleaning it up.

Oh and Fire PIOLI>

notorious
01-16-2012, 09:54 AM
On second thought, if Pioli was involved in the video scandle in 07', than it is entirely possible that this stuff is true.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 09:57 AM
You go back and remember... I believe it was Kevin Harlan that said before the season even began that he was hearing things about the working environment at Arrowhead that were really disturbing. Something like that. I can't remember his exact words... I think there was an ESPN guy or two also that said things were really dysfunctional. So Gretz is right that it has been floating out there for a while. Although I think we all just assumed it was fights between Haley/Pioli, maybe he meant something else.

Yes. This has been going on for a very long time. I wish I could remember the sources too. There is a ton of smoke and it's coming from everywhere.

Messier
01-16-2012, 09:57 AM
IMO it's more because they have stuck with him, when he has looked so shitty.

I hate Cassel, and if he's our starter in the first game next season it's a knock on Pioli and Crennel, but last year, it's hard not to start the QB that lead the team to a division title. It's the same thing happening in Denver. Tebow really shouldn't be their starter next year, but he's gonna be, (thank God) because of where he got them. 2010, easy schedule aside, Cassel won 10 games and threw 27 TDs, it's hard to say that's just not cutting it.

In closing, I hate Cassel, and don't want him starting another game for the Chiefs.

O.city
01-16-2012, 09:58 AM
If it really is this bad, Pioli probably needs to be released.

notorious
01-16-2012, 09:58 AM
If it really is this bad, Pioli probably needs to be released.

Clark probably knows all about it.

O.city
01-16-2012, 09:59 AM
I hate Cassel, and if he's our starter in the first game next season it's a knock on Pioli and Crennel, but last year, it's hard not to start the QB that lead the team to a division title. It's the same thing happening in Denver. God's anointed NFL disciple really shouldn't be their starter next year, but he's gonna be, (thank God) because of where he got them. 2010, easy schedule aside, Cassel won 10 games and threw 27 TDs, it's hard to say that's just not cutting it.

In closing, I hate Cassel, and don't want him starting another game for the Chiefs.

Oh I know.

And thats totally true.

I just think the blind Cassel hate on here spills over a little sometimes. We see how bad he is and it's actually seeming like there is a chance he won't be back.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:00 AM
If it really is this bad, Pioli probably needs to be released.

The article and the blurb by Gretz say it's a Hunt thing, not a Pioli thing.

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 10:01 AM
I have no problem with Fat Scott making drastic changes to the organization... it was long overdue.

The problem is in wins/losses.

The Chiefs are 21-28 under Fat Scott.

The Chiefs could turn their organization into North Korea and if they were winning I could care less.

Hey, the Chiefs ARE run like North Korea. Here's a handy chart:

http://i44.tinypic.com/zy8t2o.gif

dallaschiefsfan
01-16-2012, 10:03 AM
Gretz weighs in:

From Bobgretz.com:

Several thoughts on the Kansas City Star finally catching up to the fact that employment with the Kansas City Chiefs these days is working in a toxic environment. The newspaper did so in a front page story in Sundayís edition, headlined Arrowhead Anxiety. In case you missed it, hereís the link where you can read what they had to say.

First, itís a good story that shined light on a dark corner of the operations that those that control the Chiefs would rather have been kept quiet. Second, although itís a lengthy story it only scratched the surface of how dysfunctional the organization is these days. Third, the person most responsible for the atmosphere of fear and anxiety around the organization took the fewest number of verbal arrows Ė team chairman Clark Hunt.

This story has been under construction for several weeks; maybe a month and the Chiefs were well aware of the details. But in the typical fashion of the way the organization is run these days, they attempted to strong arm the Star, demanding the names of the anonymous sources in the story and threatening a law suit. Not once, but twice the Chiefs took this tact with the local fish wrap in the last few weeks.

Having spent a dozen years getting ink on my hands, including nine of those with the Star, I can tell you what happens when a business, politician or sports team threatens a newspaper. The folks in charge suddenly realize they have a story thatís even bigger than they thought. The reaction of Huntís minions simply increased the visibility that the story was going to receive. It showed his people in charge of public relations have no idea how to deal with the media.

I'm not nearly as dialed in as The Bad Guy, but my very small slice of insider knowledge can at least confirm the bolded above. Mainly on the business side, of course. I can't speak for the personnel side. And from human side of this, these aren't simply all disgruntled former employees like some of you are projecting...I would be intellectually honest about it if that were the case. These are people that have moved on with their careers and very much want the Chiefs to succeed.

tk13
01-16-2012, 10:06 AM
http://deadspin.com/5876426/

Deadspin has picked it up.

O.city
01-16-2012, 10:06 AM
This was basically a no win situation for the Chiefs. Yeah they went to far with it but the options were


Keep things the same, stagnant as they were and hope something good came out of it.

Or.

Drastically change the environment.

I think there are probably some butthurt employees with an ax to grind and people on CP who are rightfully angry with the results being put on the field, see that as a way to unleash hatred.

Truth of the matter is, personnel wise, Pioli has done a pretty solid job, save for the quarterback. Now business wise, seems to be a different story.

I don't know why on CP it has to be black or white. Was there probably some ax grinding going on from people who were complacent and got their shit chewed, probably. Did the front office go overboard with some stuff, probably.

I don't think it was exactly one or the other. I also think this could be a good thing, in that it could shed light on some things that need changed.

Anyway sorry for the rant.

Dave Lane
01-16-2012, 10:06 AM
Some people don't understand productivity in the workplace.

There are so many idiots in this thread it amazes me. I haven't gotten a paycheck from anyone since I was 20 years old. In the meantime I've issued 100's of thousands of paychecks to other people.

This is a disgrace. Operating a business in this manner is absolutely disgusting and demeaning. Anyone who can't see that needs to take a really hard look in the mirror.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 10:07 AM
By the way, I fully agree with Gretz's assessment. The way the Chiefs are handling this situation is highly suspect. Hand selecting a few select people to talk, forcing a PR person to assist them in the interview, and badgering the Star to disclose their sources. It either shows that: 1) they have something to hide; 2) they are so blind to realize what this story could become. To me, it looks really, really bad when you have this kind of a piece and Pioli didn't have any comment on it. I don't think it's because he has something to hide. I think it's because he thinks he's above scrutiny.

Iowanian
01-16-2012, 10:09 AM
You stick your thumb in the but of 1 waitress at IHOP and people think you're crazy......

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:11 AM
This was basically a no win situation for the Chiefs. Yeah they went to far with it but the options were


Keep things the same, stagnant as they were and hope something good came out of it.

Or.

Drastically change the environment.

I think there are probably some butthurt employees with an ax to grind and people on CP who are rightfully angry with the results being put on the field, see that as a way to unleash hatred.

Truth of the matter is, personnel wise, Pioli has done a pretty solid job, save for the quarterback. Now business wise, seems to be a different story.

I don't know why on CP it has to be black or white. Was there probably some ax grinding going on from people who were complacent and got their shit chewed, probably. Did the front office go overboard with some stuff, probably.

I don't think it was exactly one or the other. I also think this could be a good thing, in that it could shed light on some things that need changed.

Anyway sorry for the rant.

exactly.

And after reading the article again, yeah, they probably did go overboard with some stuff. That usually happens when you're trying to force change.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:13 AM
There are so many idiots in this thread it amazes me. I haven't gotten a paycheck from anyone since I was 20 years old. In the meantime I've issued 100's of thousands of paychecks to other people.

This is a disgrace. Operating a business in this manner is absolutely disgusting and demeaning. Anyone who can't see that needs to take a really hard look in the mirror.

What's so disgusting? What's a disgrace in your opinion?

Dave Lane
01-16-2012, 10:15 AM
The entire article. Anyone that operates a business like that has no business being in business. Get Pioli out of the business side. He's a fool that has no idea how to run a business.

dallaschiefsfan
01-16-2012, 10:16 AM
Actually, I've been talking about the business operations stuff since the day I came back, before Haley was even fired.

Because it DOES matter.

Absolutely...x10. Carl was a terrible personnel man and not the guy I would choose to stick in front of the cameras...but he knew how to organize the business side of things. I have no love for Carl an DO NOT want him back, but a team's relationships with its city and the fanbase has a TON to do with the business side of things. Sure, a good product on the field trumps everything. But when you DON'T have a good product...and all teams go through periods where their product is poor...it simply makes no sense to engender bad blood with one's fanbase.

Stoke the fires of the city's love for their team, whether they win or lose...and then hire the best personnel people to minimize any "down" years. This isn't that complicated...and certainly not something you have to learn from the Goldman Sachs school of stupid.

The Bad Guy
01-16-2012, 10:18 AM
So yeah, about those people that were saying this stuff is normal and all of the chicken littles were overreacting...

LOL at the Chiefs for demanding the names of sources. They are just a bully.

I hope Arrowhead is half full the whole year. Clark can shove it.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 10:18 AM
This was basically a no win situation for the Chiefs. Yeah they went to far with it but the options were


Keep things the same, stagnant as they were and hope something good came out of it.

Or.

Drastically change the environment.

I think there are probably some butthurt employees with an ax to grind and people on CP who are rightfully angry with the results being put on the field, see that as a way to unleash hatred.

Truth of the matter is, personnel wise, Pioli has done a pretty solid job, save for the quarterback. Now business wise, seems to be a different story.

I don't know why on CP it has to be black or white. Was there probably some ax grinding going on from people who were complacent and got their shit chewed, probably. Did the front office go overboard with some stuff, probably.

I don't think it was exactly one or the other. I also think this could be a good thing, in that it could shed light on some things that need changed.

Anyway sorry for the rant.

There are some things in the article that encourage you to react, and interestingly, the neutralists and the pro-Pioli people haven't. The only people that seem to care, for example, about the gum wrapper thing are the people who really hate Pioli. I personally think stuff like that and the cost of coffee are a good thing. Anybody who's worked in a business knows that simple things like conserving printer paper and cutting down on unnecessary office supplies go a very long way in saving the company money.

The problem is that when we say the front office is going overboard, the accusations go beyond things I haven't seen in the business world. And if there's any truth to the fact that this is becoming a toxic environment, not only to bad workers, but to good workers too, then this is a problem with much further-reaching implications. The most popular engagement tool in the business world is the 12 Questions offered by Nielsen. Because these are questions that are universally true, whether you have a pressure cooker company or a laid back conservative one. The question that tends to be one of the most important is: do you have a best friend at work (need to know someone has your back). Many would argue that there's also a question of "I see the strategic value in the work that I do." I would imagine that workers hate but understand why they have to cut down on coffee. I doubt anyone would understand why there is protocol about calling Pioli by his first name.

The Bad Guy
01-16-2012, 10:19 AM
What's so disgusting? What's a disgrace in your opinion?

You don't think it's a joke that the team is demanding the Star turn over the names of the sources?

If you have nothing to hide, and are operating the correct way, why are the Chiefs so nervous?

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 10:20 AM
The trouble is Pioli is messing his head on the side of the business that the Chiefs actually were excellent at. The buisness side of the Chiefs was a top notch NFL organization, it was the player personal were the cluster fuck was. Running a CIA type operation isn't going to win games on Sunday.

O.city
01-16-2012, 10:21 AM
exactly.

And after reading the article again, yeah, they probably did go overboard with some stuff. That usually happens when you're trying to force change.

I feel the same way.


There was a new boss, tough things had to be done.