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Mr. Laz
01-16-2012, 10:21 AM
The trouble is Pioli is messing his head on the side of the business that the Chiefs actually were excellent at. The buisness side of the Chiefs was a top notch NFL organization, it was the player personal were the cluster **** was. Running a CIA type operation isn't going to win games on Sunday.
definitely agree with this

and if the Chiefs don't win all this stuff is going to implode into a giant fiery ball of shit. Just like Rex Ryan ... Just like Haley

Pioli may succeed, may fail ... doesn't change the fact that all this he said, she said speculation is just rumor mongering that is getting eatan up by the people who ALREADY DIDN'T LIKE PIOLI.

This is just PR fodder

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-16-2012, 10:21 AM
getnickwrightnick wright

Do you guys not remember when @si_jimtrotter was on the show, talking about the paranoia at Arrowhead surrounding phone calls?

1 minute ago FavoriteRetweetReply


getnickwrightnick wright
Also, if you think only accusers in @kentbabb story are "disgruntled former employees" you need to raise your reading comprehension level.

dallaschiefsfan
01-16-2012, 10:22 AM
This was basically a no win situation for the Chiefs. Yeah they went to far with it but the options were


Keep things the same, stagnant as they were and hope something good came out of it.

Or.

Drastically change the environment.

I think there are probably some butthurt employees with an ax to grind and people on CP who are rightfully angry with the results being put on the field, see that as a way to unleash hatred.

Truth of the matter is, personnel wise, Pioli has done a pretty solid job, save for the quarterback. Now business wise, seems to be a different story.

I don't know why on CP it has to be black or white. Was there probably some ax grinding going on from people who were complacent and got their shit chewed, probably. Did the front office go overboard with some stuff, probably.

I don't think it was exactly one or the other. I also think this could be a good thing, in that it could shed light on some things that need changed.

Anyway sorry for the rant.

I'm on board with the bolded above...except for the personnel side where Scott didn't give us depth. QB AND depth are an issue.

O.city
01-16-2012, 10:24 AM
So what about the workers who say its not toxic?

Or the one who says it was the same reaction when Peterson took over?

When they say that they were coached and or are lying, but when employees who were fired say it they don't have somewhat of an axe to grind?

There were employees fired from a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years and a SB in 40 years. You think Stephanie Melton knows alot about putting a SB winning team on the field?

Dave Lane
01-16-2012, 10:24 AM
The trouble is Pioli is messing his head on the side of the business that the Chiefs actually were excellent at. The buisness side of the Chiefs was a top notch NFL organization, it was the player personal were the cluster **** was. Running a CIA type operation isn't going to win games on Sunday.

Exactly. Get Pioli's dumb ass out of the business side and have him spend that time on the football side. Dude is dumb as a mud fence on business management and how to get the most out of your employees.

Bring back Carl to run the business side and let Pioli run the football side and you might have a winning combo.

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-16-2012, 10:26 AM
MikeSilverMichael Silver

@getnickwright @kentbabb "We vill defend ze secret police at all costs"

Dave Lane
01-16-2012, 10:26 AM
So what about the workers who say its not toxic?

Or the one who says it was the same reaction when Peterson took over?

When they say that they were coached and or are lying, but when employees who were fired say it they don't have somewhat of an axe to grind?

There were employees fired from a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years and a SB in 40 years. You think Stephanie Melton knows alot about putting a SB winning team on the field?

You mean the 2 that didn't have a Chiefs PR person sitting next to them at the interview?

Wow they found 2 people they could trust to not spill any beans. Awesome.

dallaschiefsfan
01-16-2012, 10:26 AM
The trouble is Pioli is messing his head on the side of the business that the Chiefs actually were excellent at. The buisness side of the Chiefs was a top notch NFL organization, it was the player personal were the cluster **** was. Running a CIA type operation isn't going to win games on Sunday.

Yup.

I'm still at a loss as to why Pioli is doing anything on the business side. Clark seemed to make a huge deal about dividing Carl's former job title between two people. It seems like that was either all talk, or Pioli was given carte blanche to step over the boundaries as he saw fit.

tk13
01-16-2012, 10:27 AM
Maybe it was Jim Trotter and not an ESPN guy I was thinking of. But I knew someone national besides Harlan had floating this stuff out there.

Although that said, it could just be one of those things where Haley simply drove himself crazy. He knew they had done it to other people, so he starts to fear it's being done to him.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:29 AM
The entire article. Anyone that operates a business like that has no business being in business. Get Pioli out of the business side. He's a fool that has no idea how to run a business.

Like what? What in particular is so disgusting? There are a number of things in that article that aren't a big deal at all, like the Candy wrapper thing.

I don't think i've had a boss that HASN't done something like that. You're acting like the whole thing is so terrible.

I've been in a work place with drastic change JUST like this (of course w/o the phone tapping thing, if that's true) and heard practically half the staff bitch and complain and threaten to quit.

Which is why i'm not ready to crucify Hunt/Pioli until ALL of the facts come out.

CaliforniaChief
01-16-2012, 10:31 AM
When stories like this pop, they either grow and gain traction, or they fade away. Looks like this one has legs. If it really did hit the fan, I wonder what the end result of it all would be. Pioli fired? Clark apology? Where would it lead?

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:32 AM
You don't think it's a joke that the team is demanding the Star turn over the names of the sources?

If you have nothing to hide, and are operating the correct way, why are the Chiefs so nervous?

You wouldn't want to know where these accusations are coming from?

I sure as **** would. Especially if a lot of what was being said are lies.

And why do they have to be painted as nervous? Because the media said so?

The only head executive that we'd want to hear from who hasn't addressed this situation is Pioli. Because Pioli hasn't talked, that makes them nervous?



Until all the facts come out, and Chiefs defend themselves, everyone is making assumptions here.

FringeNC
01-16-2012, 10:33 AM
What I thought was interesting is that Gretz blames Hunt, not Pioli.

Again, I'd have no problem with anything that is going on over there if the unique work environment produces playoff victories. I don't see how secrecy matters all that much in this line of business. This is not Apple Computer.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 10:33 AM
So what about the workers who say its not toxic?

Or the one who says it was the same reaction when Peterson took over?

When they say that they were coached and or are lying, but when employees who were fired say it they don't have somewhat of an axe to grind?

There were employees fired from a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years and a SB in 40 years. You think Stephanie Melton knows alot about putting a SB winning team on the field?

The workers who said it wasn't toxic spoke on the record and the article said most of them had a PR person present. It's hard to imagine that any of those guys are going to say anything negative. It goes without saying that it's far more interesting that only the current workers who were listed as "anonymous" seemed to have more negative things to say.

If Gretz's accusation is true that the Chiefs were threatening lawsuits for these interviews, that's a really bad statement about the lengths the Chiefs will go to control their reputation. And it makes it a lot harder to really believe their credibility.

Your last point is a fair point. But again, they are throwing out ideas and allowing us to react to them. I don't think gum wrappers and coffees is a big deal--I think that level of accountability is a good thing. There are other things in this article that scare the shit out of me.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:34 AM
You mean the 2 that didn't have a Chiefs PR person sitting next to them at the interview?

Wow they found 2 people they could trust to not spill any beans. Awesome.

Oh wow. The PR guy was there doing his job. Big Shocker. I'm sure there are PR people around when doing a lot of Chiefs interviews. I'd be surprised if there weren't.

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-16-2012, 10:35 AM
When stories like this pop, they either grow and gain traction, or they fade away. Looks like this one has legs. If it really did hit the fan, I wonder what the end result of it all would be. Pioli fired? Clark apology? Where would it lead?

Let's hope Pioli gets fired.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:37 AM
If Gretz's accusation is true that the Chiefs were threatening lawsuits for these interviews, that's a really bad statement about the lengths the Chiefs will go to control their reputation. And it makes it a lot harder to really believe their credibility.



If these are slanderous statements that are being made, then why would the Chiefs threatening to sue give them less credibility?

Slander is a big deal. Especially for a Pro Sports team. Look at the shit stirred up by this article, yet there is no proof yet that ANYTHING was tapped.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 10:38 AM
You wouldn't want to know where these accusations are coming from?

I sure as **** would. Especially if a lot of what was being said are lies.

And why do they have to be painted as nervous? Because the media said so?

The only head executive that we'd want to hear from who hasn't addressed this situation is Pioli. Because Pioli hasn't talked, that makes them nervous.



Until all the facts come out, and Chiefs defend themselves, everyone is making assumptions here.

Wow. A few months ago, I talked about Penn State and the kind of fear of God that university can put on a person trying to blow the whistle. This is exactly why. What you're suggesting goes against everything this country is trying to do to encourage whistleblowing, even when companies are bullying their workers to keep their mouths shut.

And again, most of the stuff in this article is fact. And Mark Donovan or Clark Hunt either confirmed it was true, or defended the practice. Who the fuck knows why Pioli chose not to participate. That's the part that continues to be a head scratcher for me.

O.city
01-16-2012, 10:38 AM
The workers who said it wasn't toxic spoke on the record and the article said most of them had a PR person present. It's hard to imagine that any of those guys are going to say anything negative. It goes without saying that it's far more interesting that only the current workers who were listed as "anonymous" seemed to have more negative things to say.

If Gretz's accusation is true that the Chiefs were threatening lawsuits for these interviews, that's a really bad statement about the lengths the Chiefs will go to control their reputation. And it makes it a lot harder to really believe their credibility.

Your last point is a fair point. But again, they are throwing out ideas and allowing us to react to them. I don't think gum wrappers and coffees is a big deal--I think that level of accountability is a good thing. There are other things in this article that scare the shit out of me.

Yeah the lawsuit thing, I get that and tend to think that is a little on the shitty side.


I just think people who hate Pioli are using this to burn him at the stake. Don't get me wrong hte dude has made mistakes, but say we don't lose our two best players this year, Mo and Cassel stay healthy, we win 9 or 10 games, make the playoffs and just beat the Steelers and lost to the Pats.

If all that happened and this article came out, what would be the reaction?

dallaschiefsfan
01-16-2012, 10:39 AM
What I thought was interesting is that Gretz blames Hunt, not Pioli.

Again, I'd have no problem with anything that is going on over there if the unique work environment produces playoff victories. I don't see how secrecy matters all that much in this line of business. This is not Apple Computer.

Right...and while you're NOT getting rid of Hunt, I hope this is him simply learning to run a franchise and that he adapts over time.

O.city
01-16-2012, 10:40 AM
Wow. A few months ago, I talked about Penn State and the kind of fear of God that university can put on a person trying to blow the whistle. This is exactly why. What you're suggesting goes against everything this country is trying to do to encourage whistleblowing, even when companies are bullying their workers to keep their mouths shut.

And again, most of the stuff in this article is fact. And Mark Donovan or Clark Hunt either confirmed it was true, or defended the practice. Who the **** knows why Pioli chose not to participate. That's the part that continues to be a head scratcher for me.

Just curious, but what in the article do you see as so heinous?

Dave Lane
01-16-2012, 10:40 AM
Oh wow. The PR guy was there doing his job. Big Shocker. I'm sure there are PR people around when doing a lot of Chiefs interviews. I'd be surprised if there weren't.

Sitting there like a Soviet political commissar, and you don't think that's a bit weird? And why not with all of them Scott?

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 10:41 AM
If these are slanderous statements that are being made, then why would the Chiefs threatening to sue give them less credibility?

Slander is a big deal. Especially for a Pro Sports team. Look at the shit stirred up by this article, yet there is no proof yet that ANYTHING was tapped.

There is nothing slanderous in this article.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 10:43 AM
There were employees fired from a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years and a SB in 40 years. You think Stephanie Melton knows alot about putting a SB winning team on the field?

People on the business side have nothing to do with the players on the field. Its two seperate business operations. The overlap on the two is actually very minimal other than sharing the same building and getting a paycheck from the same place. Pioli's CIA operation is just fucking stupid. Run the football side if you want that way fine but some of the other bullshit is just that bullshit. Basically it proves that all Pioli has been under is just football. Every level of football is run in a dictatorship type form. Business is not. Stupid thing on Pioli's part is the business side is the people who have to go out and cover your ass with the public for the shitty product you put on the field. They are the ones who deal with the fans every single day. They are the ones who deal with the business owners in the community. Not to mention the Midwest mentality is not to be closed up about anything. Us Midwesterners are friendly people by nature. You might be able to get away with secerts and other bullshit on the East Coast but it won't fly in the Midwest.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:44 AM
Wow. A few months ago, I talked about Penn State and the kind of fear of God that university can put on a person trying to blow the whistle. This is exactly why. What you're suggesting goes against everything this country is trying to do to encourage whistleblowing, even when companies are bullying their workers to keep their mouths shut.


It seems like you think they're threatening to sue because they wanna scare people, when in fact they could be threatening to sue because the newspaper is stating slanderous statements w/o merit.

Your opinion: "OMG, KC STAR, if you write this article and release the truth, we'll threaten to sue you....for what, i don't know, but we will!" -Chiefs

My Opinion: "OMG KC Star, most of this shit is lies, and if you write lies about our organization, that's grounds for a lawsuit" - Chiefs



See? It could go either way. So why assume?

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:44 AM
There is nothing slanderous in this article.

If it's a lie, and bad mouthing, it's slander.

O.city
01-16-2012, 10:44 AM
I just feel as if change had to happen.

And it sucks for those who have been there and been a loyal worker, but it is what it is.

Again, they have probably gone a little to far with this, but coming in and seeing what the franchise was they probably seen it as being needed.

FringeNC
01-16-2012, 10:44 AM
Wow. A few months ago, I talked about Penn State and the kind of fear of God that university can put on a person trying to blow the whistle. This is exactly why. What you're suggesting goes against everything this country is trying to do to encourage whistleblowing, even when companies are bullying their workers to keep their mouths shut.

And again, most of the stuff in this article is fact. And Mark Donovan or Clark Hunt either confirmed it was true, or defended the practice. Who the **** knows why Pioli chose not to participate. That's the part that continues to be a head scratcher for me.

Who cares. It's at-will employment. I could care less WTF is going on there if the on-field product is good. The discussion needs to get back to whether this management style and commitment to secrecy yields positive results. I don't think it will. So this story is a pretty big f'n deal in my opinion -- just not for the moralizing aspect of it that belongs in the DC forums.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:47 AM
Sitting there like a Soviet political commissar, and you don't think that's a bit weird? And why not with all of them Scott?

People have PR guys during interviews all the time. This is not something abnormal. I don't think it's a bit weird.

Sounds like common practice for a lot of organizations and people to me. When a Celebrity does an interview and their PR guy is near, does that make it evil as well?


The PR guy being there is no big deal IMO. Like i said, I'd be more surprised if there wasn't a PR guy there.

O.city
01-16-2012, 10:47 AM
People on the business side have nothing to do with the players on the field. Its two seperate business operations. The overlap on the two is actually very minimal other than sharing the same building and getting a paycheck from the same place. Pioli's CIA operation is just ****ing stupid. Run the football side if you want that way fine but some of the other bullshit is just that bullshit. Basically it proves that all Pioli has been under is just football. Every level of football is run in a dictatorship type form. Business is not. Stupid thing on Pioli's part is the business side is the people who have to go out and cover your ass with the public for the shitty product you put on the field. They are the ones who deal with the fans every single day. They are the ones who deal with the business owners in the community. Not to mention the Midwest mentality is not to be closed up about anything. Us Midwesterners are friendly people by nature. You might be able to get away with secerts and other bullshit on the East Coast but it won't fly in the Midwest.


This is very true.


And that business side was fantastic at filling that stadium when the football side produced mediocre teams.


But with new management comes change. I don't really like that part of it but it happens.

And the secrets part is bullshit, but it all boils down to W's and L's.

Put a winning franchise on the field and this town and fanbase will be excited.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 10:47 AM
Also it shows to be that Donovan is a weak fucker in the business side of the things as well. If he had any stones he would tell Pioli to fuck off and let me worry about the business side.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 10:48 AM
It seems like you think they're threatening to sue because they wanna scare people, when in fact they could be threatening to sue because the newspaper is stating slanderous statements w/o merit.

Your opinion: "OMG, KC STAR, if you write this article and release the truth, we'll threaten to sue you....for what, i don't know, but we will!" -Chiefs

My Opinion: "OMG KC Star, most of this shit is lies, and if you write lies about our organization, that's grounds for a lawsuit" - Chiefs



See? It could go either way. So why assume?

Newspapers have a ton of protections against slander. You don't want to open up a precedent where newspapers aren't allowed to express opinions or have to have absolute 100% confirmation of fact before publishing. There is no way the Chiefs would come close to winning and they know that.

I'm sure the lawsuits they are threatening are more related to nondisclosures.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 10:49 AM
If it's a lie, and bad mouthing, it's slander.

No, it is not. It's about malicious intent to lie. That is, that the person is making up stories intentionally to sabotage the reputation of the person. It seems pretty obvious that Haley believes the story to be true, even if that makes him look like a paranoid lunatic.

Dave Lane
01-16-2012, 10:50 AM
People have PR guys during interviews all the time. This is not something abnormal. I don't think it's a bit weird.

Sounds like common practice for a lot of organizations and people to me. When a Celebrity does an interview and their PR guy is near, does that make it evil as well?


The PR guy being there is no big deal IMO. Like i said, I'd be more surprised if there wasn't a PR guy there.

Scott, take it down a notch or you are gonna blow your cover.

Unbelievable, I'm done wasting my time with apologists.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 10:51 AM
A major newspaper like the Star wouldn't run a story like this if it really was slander. I worked in the newspaper industry and you have to good proof to run to a story. Our reporters always had to have mulitple sources on any story just to be published.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 10:51 AM
Who cares. It's at-will employment. I could care less WTF is going on there if the on-field product is good. The discussion needs to get back to whether this management style and commitment to secrecy yields positive results. I don't think it will. So this story is a pretty big f'n deal in my opinion -- just not for the moralizing aspect of it that belongs in the DC forums.

I care because I believe an organization that functions this way, one that has a tremendous amount of distrust of their own employees, and one that creates a tremendous amount of distrust with people who are supposed to be on the same side as you... is extremely toxic.

Messier
01-16-2012, 10:52 AM
Scott, take it down a notch or you are gonna blow your cover.

Unbelievable, I'm done wasting my time with apologists.

Hey! I thought I was Scott.

Unless you think it's a muti, Mrs. Haley.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:53 AM
I just feel as if change had to happen.

And it sucks for those who have been there and been a loyal worker, but it is what it is.

Again, they have probably gone a little to far with this, but coming in and seeing what the franchise was they probably seen it as being needed.

Completely agree, and I can relate a bit to the article.

When I was a Manager at a movie theater and we got a new GM, we had SO many people threatening to quit, talking shit about our new GM behind her back, etc.

Truth is, the change was needed. And she held us way more accountable then our previous boss, and the Theater actually started making money and cutting expenses under her watch.

Most people loved our old GM so much. She let people take smoke breaks whenever they wanted, she was real nice. Let everyone kinda do as they pleased. A real soft, nice lady.

New GM comes in and demands that employees aren't standing around talking. She demanded that employees were contstantly working. She demanded that no one could use the phones unless on a break, and even then that was sketchy. She demanded a whole lot more.

And everyone hated her for awhile. Everyone felt un easy.

Some quit. Most talked shit. But our new GM never actually did anything wrong, just made everyone work and got on their case when they didn't.


This article is almost EXACTLY like that.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:54 AM
Scott, take it down a notch or you are gonna blow your cover.

Unbelievable, I'm done wasting my time with apologists.

How am I an Apologist? Because I don't believe everything the media tells me w/o hearing the full story? That makes me an apologist?

And you keep saying Scott, when it's been stated numerous times that this is believed to be Hunt's handy work.

FringeNC
01-16-2012, 10:54 AM
I forget whether it was this article or an article about this, but it pointed out that other teams who change GMs don't have a complete purge like occurred at Arrowhead. Clark and Pioli completely gutted the organization. Isn't that what we wanted? The thing burned down? Carl's cronies shit-canned. That's what Clark did. Unfortunately, it appears that Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli may not have a clue what it takes to build a winner. This preoccupation with secrecy seems asinine, and a waste of resources.

O.city
01-16-2012, 10:55 AM
I care because I believe an organization that functions this way, one that has a tremendous amount of distrust of their own employees, and one that creates a tremendous amount of distrust with people who are supposed to be on the same side as you... is extremely toxic.

I agree.


However, as we have seen, an organization that runs well the way this one has for 4 decades can get really complacent.


I think it needs to be balanced. Scott and Clark need to figure out that middle ground.

Have some Taco Tuesdays or Casual Fridays or something.

In the end the thing that makes Pioli good at player evaluation and drafting is gonna be the end of his first GM job if he isn't careful.

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 10:55 AM
The Chiefs have hired a new PR Person to provide corporate spin this week. Meet him here:
http://tinyurl.com/8e4xo

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 10:56 AM
Ok, so because they whiffed on a QB they should just just let the rest of the franchise rot, right?

It's not just about the QB. You think it's great that Clark and Pioli are demanding accountability of those below them. Who is demanding accountability from THEM?


definitely agree with this

and if the Chiefs don't win all this stuff is going to implode into a giant fiery ball of shit. Just like Rex Ryan ... Just like Haley

Pioli may succeed, may fail ... doesn't change the fact that all this he said, she said speculation is just rumor mongering that is getting eatan up by the people who ALREADY DIDN'T LIKE PIOLI.

This is just PR fodder

I hope you're not talking about me. Because I was one of the guys running around here 3 years ago having Pioli-gasms. I couldn't have been more excited.

I'm not upset about this stuff because I already didn't like Pioli. Stuff like this is the REASON I don't like Pioli in the first place.

Which is why i'm not ready to crucify Hunt/Pioli until ALL of the facts come out.

And therein lies the problem - we'll NEVER hear the Chiefs side of the story. The fans can't know too much, they might give secrets to the enemy.

Brock
01-16-2012, 10:57 AM
Well, at any rate, I don't see anything very unusual about this when compared to the way corporate america runs, and I daresay that if the team was winning, nobody would give a shit about any of it.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:57 AM
I agree.


However, as we have seen, an organization that runs well the way this one has for 4 decades can get really complacent.


I think it needs to be balanced. Scott and Clark need to figure out that middle ground.

Have some Taco Tuesdays or Casual Fridays or something.

In the end the thing that makes Pioli good at player evaluation and drafting is gonna be the end of his first GM job if he isn't careful.

This.

Produce a winner on the field and most of the people in the thread would be defending Pioli/Hunt.

That's the bottom line.

Win.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 10:58 AM
Well, at any rate, I don't see anything very unusual about this when compared to the way corporate america runs, and I daresay that if the team was winning, nobody would give a shit about any of it.

Bingo.

O.city
01-16-2012, 10:58 AM
This.

Produce a winner on the field and most of the people in the thread would be defending Pioli/Hunt.

That's the bottom line.

Win.

This.


Just start Stanzi, produce a winner and all will be fine.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 10:59 AM
When I was a Manager at a movie theater and we got a new GM, we had SO many people threatening to quit, talking shit about our new GM behind her back, etc.

This isn't about people being unhappy with change. Did your new GM at the theater lock people into the movie so they couldn't go to the bathroom, for fear that they might wander the halls and see next week's top secret release?

There's nothing even remotely the same about the two scenarios.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 11:00 AM
This.

Produce a winner on the field and most of the people in the thread would be defending Pioli/Hunt.

That's the bottom line.

Win.

You certainly won't hear much criticism from me if they start winning.

See, I'm not bitching about this because they aren't winning.

I'm bitching about this because I think it PREVENTS THEM FROM WINNING.

O.city
01-16-2012, 11:01 AM
htis, I think you are a little hung up about the reporters being locked into the room?


Again, this sucks because I don't really see the point of it in that what are they really gonna see, but again......

If the Chiefs win, no one cares.

Mr. Laz
01-16-2012, 11:02 AM
How am I an Apologist? Because I don't believe everything the media tells me w/o hearing the full story? That makes me an apologist?

And you keep saying Scott, when it's been stated numerous times that this is believed to be Hunt's handy work.
oh, i don't know ... maybe because Mr. Lane was on the Hate Pioli side of things already.

I'll kill myself if we take a guard at 11. But not before I kill Pioli first.

I may not sleep tonightIf they franchise Orton I'll get a sandwich sign that says Fire Pioli and stand out in front of Arrowhead for a week.Wrong "F" word.

Fire Pioli.He fired Haley because he wanted to. No other reason. Dude won the division last year has major injuries and get no help in FA so Pioli can shit can him.

**** Pioli. The sooner he's fired at this point the better. If he brings in a piece of shit coach like that worthless tick Fischer, I'll surgically remove his testicles.That was the rumor a few weeks ago. Haley out McDaniels in. Step 1 has happened now will the other shoe drop?

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 11:02 AM
This isn't about people being unhappy with change. Did your new GM at the theater lock people into the movie so they couldn't go to the bathroom, for fear that they might wander the halls and see next week's top secret release?

There's nothing even remotely the same about the two scenarios.

The entire article IS about people being unhappy with change.

Are they going overboard with the secrecy thing? Probably. But I doubt the secrecy thing is the reason so many got fired, and why so many are upset.

O.city
01-16-2012, 11:02 AM
We have too many threads going on about this and I can't remember which one I said it in, but say we don't lose 3 of our best players to injury and Cassel stays healthy.

Would you guys agree that with the way the schedule played out, we probably win 9 or 10 games and win the division.

Would all this be coming out if that had happened?

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 11:04 AM
htis, I think you are a little hung up about the reporters being locked into the room?

Again, this sucks because I don't really see the point of it in that what are they really gonna see, but again......

If the Chiefs win, no one cares.

I'm hung up on it because it's a 100% concrete, verified example of what's going on at Arrowhead.

And again, the reason I care is not because they aren't winning. I care because I think they think they NEED to do this stuff TO win.

If that's the case, they're not going to win because they don't have a clue what it takes to do so.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 11:05 AM
Just curious, but what in the article do you see as so heinous?

The accusation that there was a heavy amount of monitoring, and the way they were using that monitoring against people. It's not been confirmed, but there's an accusation that the team used months of Denny Thum's phone and e-mail logs against him. There is talk about private conversations being monitored--I don't think I've ever heard that before in any company. For Haley or other associates to be that paranoid about monitoring, to me, likely means that they have personally experienced or saw instances where conversations they worked very hard to keep private were somehow discovered. 2-3 years after the fact, knowing how clamped down the organization was on secrecy, you'd have to think that this isn't just about some floozy sending out a facebook post she wasn't supposed to send. This sounds like these were people who despite being careful, were still getting caught. Maybe some of that is okay because it prevents info leaking. But that, to me, gets into a disgusting feeling that you can't hold a single private conversation in the building or talk about your personal life, etc... without somebody hearing every word of it. That's Big Brother-esque. So what evidence are we seeing? We're seeing Haley obviously paranoid, as if he's been heard before. You have employees that believe the organization is so intent on enforcing non-cross functional lunches that they are actually watching cars to make sure they don't leave at the same time. And by the way, Pioli deserves some of that reputation. He came from an organization that was caught monitoring things he wasn't supposed to be monitoring, in a very, very unethical way.

The accusation that the team is fostering a siloed business environment where co-workers distrust members of their own team.

The accusations that the level of detail goes beyond any strategic connection. You understand why they cut the price of coffee. Reeming somebody for referring to him by his first name or for not taking the right path to the gym? Seriously?

I largely love what the Chiefs have done on the personnel side. And I knew Pioli was going to bring that expertise in. What worries the shit out of me, is that across both the business and personnel side, that this will quickly become an organization nobody works for. And again, as I've said before, talent is absolutely everything. Our Director of Scouting is being heavily vetted by other teams. We have coaches we have to hire in light of these stories. We are losing employees (and will then have to re-hire other employees back).

Mr. Laz
01-16-2012, 11:05 AM
This isn't about people being unhappy with change. Did your new GM at the theater lock people into the movie so they couldn't go to the bathroom, for fear that they might wander the halls and see next week's top secret release?

There's nothing even remotely the same about the two scenarios.
dumbass ... Peterson is the one the put the lock on that room, not Pioli. (per Boal and Harry)

under Pioli they have taken the lock OFF(per Boal and Harry)

btw Peterson is also the one that put the microphone listening device in the interview room. Again ... that "bug" has been taken out under Pioli. (again per Boal and Harry)

but hey ... don't let the facts get in the way of your crusade.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 11:07 AM
The entire article IS about people being unhappy with change.

Are they going overboard with the secrecy thing? Probably. But I doubt the secrecy thing is the reason so many got fired, and why so many are upset.

Here's the thing, the changes that took place at your workplace appear to be WARRANTED (based on your own description). At the end of the day, you said that the theater was profitable and financially in a much better position than it was when the new GM took over.

Many of the changes taking place at Arrowhead are UNWARRANTED and are detracting from what needs to be done to move this thing forward, ON THE FIELD. The seats are emptier than the day Scott arrived and the team is going nowhere.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 11:07 AM
Well, at any rate, I don't see anything very unusual about this when compared to the way corporate america runs, and I daresay that if the team was winning, nobody would give a shit about any of it.

Have you ever actually worked in corporate America? I have and have a ton of friends who work there too, from laid back companies to pressure cookers.

I've never heard anything close to this kind of thing before in my life.

The Bad Guy
01-16-2012, 11:08 AM
Yes, the entire article is just people being unhappy because the country club atmosphere is over. That's all it is.

Give me a freaking break.

Chocolate Hog
01-16-2012, 11:09 AM
I don't care about this to be honest. I'll be more pissed reading Babb's article talking about how Cassel will be retained.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 11:09 AM
dumbass ... Peterson is the one the put the lock on that room, not Pioli. (per Boal and Harry)

under Pioli they have taken the lock OFF(per Boal and Harry)

btw Peterson is also the one that put the microphone listening device in the interview room. Again ... that "bug" has been taken out under Pioli. (again per Boal and Harry)

but hey ... don't let the facts get in the way of your crusade.

Danny Clinkscale has reported multiple times that the door is locked when he tries to leave.

I've heard Frank and him talk about it on the radio and NEVER heard Frank say they took the lock off. Quite the opposite in fact.

I have no reason to doubt what you say about Frank and Jack (that Peterson implemented the policy) but the FACT is that the door has been locked (or continues to be, if Peterson implemented the policy) since Pioli arrived. Several members of both the 810 and 610 staff have said so.

I've never heard them talk about "bugs" or microphones. I'm talking solely about bathroom escorts.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 11:12 AM
I wonder how the rest of the Hunt family, particularly Norma, feels about Clark turning the franchise into Douche City.

Brock
01-16-2012, 11:12 AM
Have you ever actually worked in corporate America? I have and have a ton of friends who work there too, from laid back companies to pressure cookers.

I've never heard anything close to this kind of thing before in my life.

Yes, I have actually worked and continue to work in corporate america. I can't help what you've heard about or haven't heard about. I've worked in R & D areas that make this article seem like nothing.

Detoxing
01-16-2012, 11:13 AM
Danny Clinkscale has reported multiple times that the door is locked when he tries to leave.

I've heard Frank and him talk about it on the radio and NEVER heard Frank say they took the lock off. Quite the opposite in fact.

I have no reason to doubt what you say about Frank and Jack (that Peterson implemented the policy) but the FACT is that the door has been locked (or continues to be, if Peterson implemented the policy) since Pioli arrived. Several members of both the 810 and 610 staff have said so.

I've never heard them talk about "bugs" or microphones. I'm talking solely about bathroom escorts.

So if the door was locked under Peterson, why is it such a big deal NOW? How come it wasn't a big deal then?

How do other conferences work for other teams? Do we know if any other teams have adopted this policy?

If half the NFL has adopted this policy, does that still make the Chiefs the bad guys?

dirk digler
01-16-2012, 11:17 AM
Danny Clinkscale has reported multiple times that the door is locked when he tries to leave.

I've heard Frank and him talk about it on the radio and NEVER heard Frank say they took the lock off. Quite the opposite in fact.

I have no reason to doubt what you say about Frank and Jack (that Peterson implemented the policy) but the FACT is that the door has been locked (or continues to be, if Peterson implemented the policy) since Pioli arrived. Several members of both the 810 and 610 staff have said so.

I've never heard them talk about "bugs" or microphones. I'm talking solely about bathroom escorts.

The media reported the day after Haley was fired the doors were unlocked and stayed unlocked for a couple of weeks. The theory was they were trying to make Haley look like the control freak. The doors are back to being locked now.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 11:18 AM
So if the door was locked under Peterson, why is it such a big deal NOW? How come it wasn't a big deal then?

That's a great question. Peterson was universally hated by the KC media. I have to believe that if the doors were locked, especially during the Herm era, we would have heard about it. My only guess is that it wasn't a big deal because it never happened. I have heard guys like Clinkscale say that it STARTED when Pioli arrived.

How do other conferences work for other teams? Do we know if any other teams have adopted this policy?

I don't know. Then again, you'd think if this was happening elsewhere, somebody would say something right? The rumors about the Chiefs have been sprinkled in the national Internet media for two years. The same things aren't being said about other teams so what conclusion can we draw?

If half the NFL has adopted this policy, does that still make the Chiefs the bad guys?

Of course not. But again, so far we're only hearing this stuff about the Chiefs.

kysirsoze
01-16-2012, 11:20 AM
The only thing I saw in the article that absolutely is a problem if true is the bugging of cellphones. That would be mindblowingly bad for all involved. That said, I'm gonna need some more evidence than paranoid second hand mutterings of a coach about to be fired. And no, other employees saying "I wouldn't be surprised, etc." is not evidence.

If I missed the case beyond that, please feel free to point it out.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 11:24 AM
The only thing I saw in the article that absolutely is a problem if true is the bugging of cellphones. That would be mindblowingly bad for all involved. That said, I'm gonna need some more evidence than paranoid second hand mutterings of a coach about to be fired. And no, other employees saying "I wouldn't be surprised, etc." is not evidence.

If I missed the case beyond that, please feel free to point it out.

I highly doubt they were monitoring cell phones.

And Haley is fucking crazy, that's a fact.

DaWolf
01-16-2012, 11:25 AM
Have you ever actually worked in corporate America? I have and have a ton of friends who work there too, from laid back companies to pressure cookers.

I've never heard anything close to this kind of thing before in my life.

Depends on what you choose to believe. For example, all this talk about taping conversations and tapping cell phones, there are serious legal ramifications that could come from doing things like that without consent. I highly doubt the organization would be stupid enough to go that route.

Todd Haley sitting there talking about his personal phone being bugged, I don't buy it at all. First, that's illegal, and if they did that to you, you could probably bring a lawsuit against the team if that happened. For a guy who has sued McDonalds, he shouldn't have a problem filing a lawsuit against the team. Second, if you are truly that paranoid, again, it is your personal cell according to the article. Go get a new one...

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 11:27 AM
Depends on what you choose to believe. For example, all this talk about taping conversations and tapping cell phones, there are serious legal ramifications that could come from doing things like that without consent. I highly doubt the organization would be stupid enough to go that route.

Todd Haley sitting there talking about his personal phone being bugged, I don't buy it at all. First, that's illegal, and if they did that to you, you could probably bring a lawsuit against the team if that happened. For a guy who has sued McDonalds, he shouldn't have a problem filing a lawsuit against the team. Second, if you are truly that paranoid, again, it is your personal cell according to the article. Go get a new one...

Exactly.

tk13
01-16-2012, 11:28 AM
Depends on what you choose to believe. For example, all this talk about taping conversations and tapping cell phones, there are serious legal ramifications that could come from doing things like that without consent. I highly doubt the organization would be stupid enough to go that route.

Todd Haley sitting there talking about his personal phone being bugged, I don't buy it at all. First, that's illegal, and if they did that to you, you could probably bring a lawsuit against the team if that happened. For a guy who has sued McDonalds, he shouldn't have a problem filing a lawsuit against the team. Second, if you are truly that paranoid, again, it is your personal cell according to the article. Go get a new one...

You are right. What's going to hurt Pioli's case is he came from an organization that used illegal techniques to spy on other teams and got caught doing it. Then McDaniels went to Denver and still tried it. They have a background of espionage.

tk13
01-16-2012, 11:30 AM
And yes I really just wanted to be the first person in history to use the word espionage in a post and actually be talking about the Chiefs.

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 11:33 AM
Danny Clinkscale has reported multiple times that the door is locked when he tries to leave.

The Chiefs don't want him fapping in the men's room.

Okie_Apparition
01-16-2012, 11:34 AM
I can vaguely recall stories/rumors that Clark despised Carl, hate
Must want to purge his cronnies/informants without paying severance

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 11:36 AM
I can vaguely recall stories/rumors that Clark despised Carl, hate
Must want to purge his cronnies/informants without paying severance

I think it's more "fire the old people with years of service, then hire in young people with less experience for lower wages."

It's the Chiefs.
Follow the dollars.

BTW: Mark Donovan is monitoring this thread. Hi Mark!

dirk digler
01-16-2012, 11:38 AM
Depends on what you choose to believe. For example, all this talk about taping conversations and tapping cell phones, there are serious legal ramifications that could come from doing things like that without consent. I highly doubt the organization would be stupid enough to go that route.

Todd Haley sitting there talking about his personal phone being bugged, I don't buy it at all. First, that's illegal, and if they did that to you, you could probably bring a lawsuit against the team if that happened. For a guy who has sued McDonalds, he shouldn't have a problem filing a lawsuit against the team. Second, if you are truly that paranoid, again, it is your personal cell according to the article. Go get a new one...

Taping personal cell phones would be illegal but everything else is fair game. Businesses can monitor work phones and tape conversations all day long as long as they have consent and as long as it is in the ordinary course of business.

Okie_Apparition
01-16-2012, 11:38 AM
That brings me back to Carl hiring Gretz to write a Chiefs blog on his dime after his firing
there's some grinding on at least two sides

DaWolf
01-16-2012, 11:39 AM
You are right. What's going to hurt Pioli's case is he came from an organization that used illegal techniques to spy on other teams and got caught doing it. Then McDaniels went to Denver and still tried it. They have a background of espionage.

Yes. One has to wonder however if the accusations or rumors of spying come from the fact that Pioli comes from the organization that brought us Spygate, and people start assuming stuff, or is it based on reality?

The problem here is that perception is reality. The organization has a lot of work ahead of itself to convince people this is not the case...

Brock
01-16-2012, 11:41 AM
I think it's more "fire the old people with years of service, then hire in young people with less experience for lower wages."

It's the Chiefs.
Follow the dollars.

Yep. End of story. This is happening everywhere.

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 11:44 AM
Pepsi Max, the Official soft drink of the NFL and ESPECIALLY the Kansas City Chiefs.

Now we know why!

Mojo Jojo
01-16-2012, 11:44 AM
That brings me back to Carl hiring Gretz to write a Chiefs blog on his dime after his firing
there's some grinding on at least two sides
Source/link...? Gretz was let go before Carl was...

DaWolf
01-16-2012, 11:45 AM
Taping personal cell phones would be illegal but everything else is fair game. Businesses can monitor work phones and tape conversations all day long as long as they have consent and as long as it is in the ordinary course of business.

Well that's the thing, it is implied in this article that there was no consent.

If I am an employee, and I sign that form that says I understand that my emails, calls and conversations in the team facility may be monitored, then I understand what I am getting into, and won't be sending racy emails, making unauthorized calls to media to leak info, or harassing employees in meeting rooms, because you figure that's part of the reason they'd want to have those monitors in place, for stuff like that...

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 11:46 AM
Yes. One has to wonder however if the accusations or rumors of spying come from the fact that Pioli comes from the organization that brought us Spygate, and people start assuming stuff, or is it based on reality?

The problem here is that perception is reality. The organization has a lot of work ahead of itself to convince people this is not the case...

And again, that's part of the problem.

This FO won't try to convince anyone. They've done nothing so far to quash all of these rumors.

Okie_Apparition
01-16-2012, 11:49 AM
Sadly, it falls under CP urban legend that Gretz's blog is on Carl's dime
Even Gretz admitting to it

DaWolf
01-16-2012, 11:53 AM
And again, that's part of the problem.

This FO won't try to convince anyone. They've done nothing so far to quash all of these rumors.

Not sure how you go about doing that outside of publicly denying it (which they did in the article), and privately explaining the situation to anyone who you want to hire, or clarifying whatever policy it is to existing employees.

The telling thing will be in terms of whether we are able to lure a good offensive coordinator to come here or not. If we have to promote internally, then I'd think this stuff has something to do with it. If we are able to lure a good coordinator candidate from another team in here, then I'll be confident that this isn't going to affect us in NFL circles...

dirk digler
01-16-2012, 11:53 AM
Well that's the thing, it is implied in this article that there was no consent.

If I am an employee, and I sign that form that says I understand that my emails, calls and conversations in the team facility may be monitored, then I understand what I am getting into, and won't be sending racy emails, making unauthorized calls to media to leak info, or harassing employees in meeting rooms, because you figure that's part of the reason they'd want to have those monitors in place, for stuff like that...

Hard to tell. The company I work for hands out a standard form they sign on the first day they show up to work.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 11:54 AM
And again, that's part of the problem.

This FO won't try to convince anyone. They've done nothing so far to quash all of these rumors.

If I was the Chiefs I would have had a damage control piece out on the Chiefs website Sunday morning. They just seem to let it keep on coming. Wait till Outside the Lines or Charlie Robinson start to dig into and really blow up.

Brock
01-16-2012, 11:54 AM
If I was the Chiefs I would have had a damage control piece out on the Chiefs website Sunday morning. They just seem to let it keep on coming. Wait till Outside the Lines or Charlie Robinson start to dig into and really blow up.

They fired Rufus Dawes too soon!

DaWolf
01-16-2012, 11:55 AM
Sadly, it falls under CP urban legend that Gretz's blog is on Carl's dime
Even Gretz admitting to it

Brings back memories of Rufus Dawes... :)

Claynus
01-16-2012, 11:56 AM
If I was the Chiefs I would have had a damage control piece out on the Chiefs website Sunday morning. They just seem to let it keep on coming. Wait till Outside the Lines or Charlie Robinson start to dig into and really blow up.

The only thing this organization can do now to fix this is win.

Chief Faithful
01-16-2012, 11:56 AM
Pioli, from his interview with Hunt forward, has been clear that he believes winning teams come from winning organizations. It is a culture that starts at the top and permeates every job from secretary to grounds keeper.

If you remember, after the first draft Pioli fired the entire scouting organization with the exception of two scouts. Those fired were because they did not buy into the new approach and work hard to learn the new system. Pioli accepts no excuses he expects everyone to buy into the system, perform their job the way it is expected and to the best of their ability.

NFL football is about competing not just on the field, but throughout the entire organization. Organizations win championships not just players. I'm glad the Chiefs finally have a GM that understands this fact.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 11:57 AM
Pioli, from his interview with Hunt forward, has been clear that he believes winning teams come from winning organizations. It is a culture that starts at the top and permeates every job from secretary to grounds keeper.

If you remember, after the first draft Pioli fired the entire scouting organization with the exception of two scouts. Those fired were because they did not buy into the new approach and work hard to learn the new system. Pioli accepts no excuses he expects everyone to buy into the system, perform their job the way it is expected and to the best of their ability.

NFL football is about competing not just on the field, but throughout the entire organization. Organizations win championships not just players. I'm glad the Chiefs finally have a GM that understands this fact.

Too bad he also sucks a large amount of cock.

dirk digler
01-16-2012, 11:59 AM
Pioli, from his interview with Hunt forward, has been clear that he believes winning teams come from winning organizations. It is a culture that starts at the top and permeates every job from secretary to grounds keeper.

If you remember, after the first draft Pioli fired the entire scouting organization with the exception of two scouts. Those fired were because they did not buy into the new approach and work hard to learn the new system. Pioli accepts no excuses he expects everyone to buy into the system, perform their job the way it is expected and to the best of their ability.

NFL football is about competing not just on the field, but throughout the entire organization. Organizations win championships not just players. I'm glad the Chiefs finally have a GM that understands this fact.

Thanks Scott :thumb:

I don't get the whole talking in 3rd person thing though

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 12:00 PM
Maybe he shouldn't have fired the scouts that actually brought the talent to this team.

Chiefnj2
01-16-2012, 12:01 PM
I wonder how many KC reporters go around Arrowhead and secretly drop gum wrappers around the facility.

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 12:06 PM
Haley used to have "CHIEFS WILL" written on the wall leading out to the field, and on T-Shirts and such.

Romeo has a new slogan for 2012:

CHIEFS 2012
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

And these posters will now be issued and posted in ALL Arrowhead offices:

http://i42.tinypic.com/vzkadt.gif

tk13
01-16-2012, 12:12 PM
Haley used to have "CHIEFS WILL" written on the wall leading out to the field, and on T-Shirts and such.

Romeo has a new slogan for 2012:

CHIEFS 2012
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

And these posters will now be issued and posted in ALL Arrowhead offices:

http://i42.tinypic.com/vzkadt.gif

You left out Team Song: Rockwell - Somebody's Watching Me.

kysirsoze
01-16-2012, 12:16 PM
I wonder how many KC reporters go around Arrowhead and secretly drop gum wrappers around the facility.

Why do you think they lock em all in one room?

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 12:20 PM
You left out Team Song: Rockwell - Somebody's Watching Me.

This would be good at kickoff!

Danman
01-16-2012, 12:26 PM
Wow, 40 pages of this drivel

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 12:33 PM
We got GoChiefs some material now for a video. Go find some spy shit and play the Michael Jackson song in the background.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 12:36 PM
We got GoChiefs some material now for a video. Go find some spy shit and play the Michael Jackson song in the background.

We don't have shit for a video.

COchief
01-16-2012, 12:37 PM
I scanned the last few pages so if someone already mentioned this, stuff it up your ass.

Peter King just linked to this article in MMQB, he averages at least 2 million readers a week during the season so you could probably safely double or triple that number for the playoffs.

This is embarrassing for the Chiefs and Pioli, shit just got real and the national spotlight is now shining directly on everyone involved.

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-16-2012, 12:37 PM
getnickwrightnick wright


Nothing like chatting with corporate attorneys before the show... The #Chiefs are shook up on this one, y'all... 2pm should be splendid.

DaWolf
01-16-2012, 12:40 PM
I scanned the last few pages so if someone already mentioned this, stuff it up your ass.

Peter King just linked to this article in MMQB, he averages at least 2 million readers a week during the season so you could probably safely double or triple that number for the playoffs.

This is embarrassing for the Chiefs and Pioli, shit just got real and the national spotlight is now shining directly on everyone involved.

He also called out Haley to go on the record with his accusations and set the story straight one way or another.

I anxiously await Todd Haley's response...

kysirsoze
01-16-2012, 12:41 PM
Gotta say this isn't helping us from a hiring power perspective.

kysirsoze
01-16-2012, 12:42 PM
He also called out Haley to go on the record with his accusations and set the story straight one way or another.

I anxiously await Todd Haley's response...

I'm gonna bet he refutes it. Why risk not only legal trouble over the allegation, but hurting his chances of getting another gig?

kysirsoze
01-16-2012, 12:43 PM
I'm gonna bet he refutes it. Why risk not only legal trouble over the allegation, but hurting his chances of getting another gig?

That, and the cell phone thing might be bullshit.

Mr. Laz
01-16-2012, 12:43 PM
Too bad he also sucks a large amount of cock.
so far he has not sucked cock ...


a few mistakes to start off with ... the type of mistakes that teams throughout the NFL makes ALL the time.

wrong choice of QB ... endlessly made in the NFL
wrong head coach ... made constantly
drafting the wrong guy or drafting them too early ... every year,every team, countless draft rounds

Pioli hasn't been great or terrible yet ... the grade is incomplete.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 12:45 PM
wrong choice of QB ... endlessly made in the NFL
wrong head coach ... made constantly
drafting the wrong guy or drafting them too early ... every year,every team,every round


Fellatio at it's finest.

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 12:45 PM
I don't think Haley is allowed to speak about anything while he's being paid off by the Chiefs. He's basically still under "contract" because he had one more year to go. I think they have to sign an agreement that they will not discuss anything about working for the Chiefs unless the Chiefs allow it, and that ain't gonna happen.

DeezNutz
01-16-2012, 12:45 PM
so far he has not sucked cock ...


a few mistakes to start off with ... the type of mistakes that teams throughout the NFL makes ALL the time.

wrong choice of QB ... endlessly made in the NFL
wrong head coach ... made constantly
drafting the wrong guy or drafting them too early ... every year,every team,every round

Pioli hasn't been great or terrible yet ... the grade is incomplete.

These two are so big that it's difficult not to give him a failing grade to this point, with the possibility of recovering of course.

FringeNC
01-16-2012, 12:47 PM
Gotta say this isn't helping us from a hiring power perspective.

That's an unknown. Do coaches we have our eye on care anything about crap like this? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm sure everyone in the NFL knows more about the Haley / Pioli feud than we do. Wonder what side they come down on? I'm guessing coaches would care much more about the particulars of Haley's treatment more than employee treatment in general.

Mr. Laz
01-16-2012, 12:49 PM
Fellatio at it's finest.
you would know, Mrsuckcockforaliving.

saying Pioli isn't great or terrible is hardly being a homer

i notice you didn't deny any of the things i listed. Because you know it's true.

1. finding an elite QB is incredibly difficult
2. Head coaches boom/bust all the time
3. every year, every team screws up about half of their draft picks

all truth ... so stop your incessant whining and go suck another cock for extra beer money.

Discuss Thrower
01-16-2012, 12:50 PM
We got GoChiefs some material now for a video. Go find some spy shit and play the Michael Jackson song in the background.

Rockwell sez what's up.

Mr. Laz
01-16-2012, 12:51 PM
These two are so big that it's difficult not to give him a failing grade to this point, with the possibility of recovering of course.
fair enough

he's moved on from the HC already, now lets just hope to hell something good happens with the QB situation.

DeezNutz
01-16-2012, 12:51 PM
But Pioli "knew more about Cassel than anyone else." That was the CP line of trust when the trade occurred.

Thus, Cassel's failings are more damning in terms of Pioli's ability to evaluate talent. Same thing with the '09 draft, which was Pioli essentially operating independently.

DeezNutz
01-16-2012, 12:52 PM
fair enough

he's moved on from the HC already, now lets just hope to hell something good happens with the QB situation.

Yep. 'Bout all we can do.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 12:54 PM
If you can't find even an average QB, or a HC, in three years, you suck a large amount of penis. Let's not kid ourselves here.

Brock
01-16-2012, 12:56 PM
If you can't find even an average QB, or a HC, in three years, you suck a large amount of penis. Let's not kid ourselves here.

Looks like he found both.

FAX
01-16-2012, 01:03 PM
Have you ever actually worked in corporate America? I have and have a ton of friends who work there too, from laid back companies to pressure cookers.

I've never heard anything close to this kind of thing before in my life.

I fear you are overstating things a tad, Mr. chiefzilla1501.

You should experience security at the Intel campus. They make you feel like they think you stole money from your grandmother's wallet.

Some companies feel that an extremely high level of secrecy is paramount to maintaining a competitive advantage and the Chiefs don't want anyone to learn about our proprietary Thomas Jones Two Yard Play.

FAX

Chocolate Hog
01-16-2012, 01:14 PM
Nick Wright and his sensationalism is always pretty funny.

Jerm
01-16-2012, 01:26 PM
Keitzman bowing down at the altar of Pioli/Hunt...what a gutless POS.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 01:26 PM
Nick Wright is right on today.

Discuss Thrower
01-16-2012, 01:26 PM
What's he saying?

Chief Faithful
01-16-2012, 01:27 PM
Thanks Scott :thumb:

I don't get the whole talking in 3rd person thing though

Common knowledge, read the book the, "War Room" as it goes into all this in detail.

My favorite parts are Hunt's thoughts on the Pioli job interview, the part on how Pioli dealt with the scouting department, and the 2011 draft. For example, Pioli traded down because Mike Pouncey was taken. It was also interesting they were trying to move up for Jason Kelce, but he fell off the board so they selected Powe. There is great detail as to why they thought Powe was a better prospect than his general grade from NFL scouting. The book is very interesting and talks a lot about Belichick, Dimitroff and Pioli.

seaofred
01-16-2012, 01:28 PM
Nick Wright is right on today.

What is he saying, can't listen?

Reerun_KC
01-16-2012, 01:31 PM
Keitzman bowing down at the altar of Pioli/Hunt...what a gutless POS.

He is taking one in the ass while blowing the other...

FAX
01-16-2012, 01:31 PM
What is he saying, can't listen?

He says that he volunteered to brown nose Pioli, but Pioli declined due to the enormity of Wright's snout.

So, instead he's accusing Dr. Evil of being a felon.

FAX

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 01:33 PM
What is he saying, can't listen?

Basically Pioli shouldn't be worried about alot of this crap, instead focus his energy on the football team and that Pioli is basically a scared inscure person.

KCrockaholic
01-16-2012, 01:37 PM
Nick Wright with the 1 up on the story again over KK.

Discuss Thrower
01-16-2012, 01:41 PM
How KK has a job is beyond me. Hell I could be better than that hack and I really only grasp 50% of what's going on in reality.

Chocolate Hog
01-16-2012, 01:42 PM
How KK has a job is beyond me. Hell I could be better than that hack and I really only grasp 50% of what's going on in reality.

He's part owner.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 01:43 PM
Basically Pioli shouldn't be worried about alot of this crap, instead focus his energy on the football team and that Pioli is basically a scared inscure person.

This sums up my feelings almost EXACTLY.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 01:43 PM
I fear you are overstating things a tad, Mr. chiefzilla1501.

You should experience security at the Intel campus. They make you feel like they think you stole money from your grandmother's wallet.

Some companies feel that an extremely high level of secrecy is paramount to maintaining a competitive advantage and the Chiefs don't want anyone to learn about our proprietary Thomas Jones Two Yard Play.

FAX

I'm not a fan of lockdown procedures, drawing the shades down, or confiscating pictures taken on a cell phone. I think it's a bit much, but there's a strategic reason for doing that. So I'm not going to get too hung up about that.

To some extent, the front office has to prove that they're serious about enforcing those rules. The problem is, it looks like they're micromanaging to the extent that they're grilling people for minutiae that doesn't seem to contribute to any real competitive advantage. And some of the monitoring procedures are beyond anything I've seen or heard of before. I have plenty of friends who work for top secret projects and organizations. The general consensus is that these organizations are super careful, pound it into your brain to be careful, and make it clear that there are severe consequences for divulging information. But they ultimately treat you like adults and trust that you'll be smart. Many of us operate in a corporate environment where our communications are being monitored and we're flagged even if there's a slight hint of inpropriety. What's worrisome is that it sure seems like they're being monitored for the wrong reasons, and that the Chiefs are using that information to use them against the employee.

Somebody tell me if they've seen an organization operate like this.

Discuss Thrower
01-16-2012, 01:45 PM
I'm not a fan of lockdown procedures, drawing the shades down, or confiscating pictures taken on a cell phone. I think it's a bit much, but there's a strategic reason for doing that. So I'm not going to get too hung up about that.

To some extent, the front office has to prove that they're serious about enforcing those rules. The problem is, it looks like they're micromanaging to the extent that they're grilling people for minutiae that doesn't seem to contribute to any real competitive advantage. And some of the monitoring procedures are beyond anything I've seen or heard of before. I have plenty of friends who work for top secret projects and organizations. The general consensus is that these organizations are super careful, pound it into your brain to be careful, and make it clear that there are severe consequences for divulging information. But they ultimately treat you like adults and trust that you'll be smart. Many of us operate in a corporate environment where our communications are being monitored and we're flagged even if there's a slight hint of inpropriety. What's worrisome is that it sure seems like they're being monitored for the wrong reasons, and that the Chiefs are using that information to use them against the employee.

Somebody tell me if they've seen an organization operate like this.

Myanmar doesn't exactly have good internet capability..

Messier
01-16-2012, 01:46 PM
Pioli and Hunt need to be lead out of arrowhead in handcuffs if true. Haley needs to state this publicly.

O.city
01-16-2012, 01:50 PM
I will give people here on cp credit, they want the Chiefs to win. I think that's the reason this so bothersome.

So KK is awful because he questions this report and doesn't automatically jump all over pioli and hunt. Don't get me wrong he is a dumbass on most things, but I dunno about this.

We all wanted change. Now it has happened and we are pissed. I think they have gone too far with some things, but they have also taken a2 and 14 team and contended for the playoffs two years in a row with absolute shit at qb.

That's my gripe. Matt cassel. And I don't like pioli messing with the business side of things but basically cassel.

IMO the Chiefs are pretty similiar to a team playing for the AFC championship.

DeezNutz
01-16-2012, 01:52 PM
I will give people here on cp credit, they want the Chiefs to win. I think that's the reason this so bothersome.

So KK is awful because he questions this report and doesn't automatically jump all over pioli and hunt. Don't get me wrong he is a dumbass on most things, but I dunno about this.

We all wanted change. Now it has happened and we are pissed. I think they have gone too far with some things, but they have also taken a2 and 14 team and contended for the playoffs two years in a row with absolute shit at qb.

That's my gripe. Matt cassel. And I don't like pioli messing with the business side of things but basically cassel.

IMO the Chiefs are pretty similiar to a team playing for the AFC championship.

No one wanted change for change's sake. We wanted change that would lead to better overall management of the franchise.

This hasn't happened, and this is why we're pissed.

His three most important decisions when he arrived (QB, HC, #3 overall pick) were mismanaged, and the first two set this franchise back.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 01:59 PM
By the way... I tend to agree that you have to veer to one extreme, prove you're serious, and commit to that. So I get a lot of what they're doing. Haley's workout program in the first year was extreme, but he was consistent and the players knew every year that he was serious about it. Herm's commitment to youth... same way. It pissed off a lot of veterans, but it was worth it because he committed to it.

What I'm sensing here is that Pioli is doing the same in KC. He believes that this culture is necessary, and to move it toward the middle, he has to be extreme about how he enforces it. What remains to be seen is on a lot of fronts is if Pioli can make adjustments. On too many fronts, I don't see that. I see a relentless commitment to make this team a living, breathing replica of the Patriots.

The question is how he adjusts to this. He has some big opportunities this offseason to show he's willing to adjust. Will he hire an OC outside of the tree? Will he cut the cord with Cassel? And from this story, he can't act like he's above the media--he needs to come out, make a statement, and answer these questions. And it would be nice to hear that the Chiefs organization takes these concerns very seriously and isn't brushing them off as a bunch of disgruntled employees talking shit about their organization. The ball is in his court. I don't get hung up on mistakes, if the right adjustments are made after the mistake is made.

O.city
01-16-2012, 02:00 PM
Oh I fully agree Deez.

However he haschanged one of those decisions and one has turned out to be not so bad.

He has a chance to change the final one this offseason.

In my opinion, outside of the qb position pioli has done a good job with the roster. You could argue depth, but when you lose two all pros there isn't a lot of depth that would have filled that.

For me, this is a make or break offseason for this franchise.I think this is why I'm more for trading up to get a qb, in that what it would say to the league and to the fans

O.city
01-16-2012, 02:02 PM
By the way... I tend to agree that you have to veer to one extreme, prove you're serious, and commit to that. So I get a lot of what they're doing. Haley's workout program in the first year was extreme, but he was consistent and the players knew every year that he was serious about it. Herm's commitment to youth... same way. It pissed off a lot of veterans, but it was worth it because he committed to it.

What I'm sensing here is that Pioli is doing the same in KC. He believes that this culture is necessary, and to move it toward the middle, he has to be extreme about how he enforces it. What remains to be seen is on a lot of fronts is if Pioli can make adjustments. On too many fronts, I don't see that. I see a relentless commitment to make this team a living, breathing replica of the Patriots.

The question is how he adjusts to this. He has some big opportunities this offseason to show he's willing to adjust. Will he hire an OC outside of the tree? Will he cut the cord with Cassel? And from this story, he can't act like he's above the media--he needs to come out, make a statement, and answer these questions. And it would be nice to hear that the Chiefs organization takes these concerns very seriously and isn't brushing them off as a bunch of disgruntled employees talking shit about their organization. The ball is in his court. I don't get hung up on mistakes, if the right adjustments are made after the mistake is made.

Great post zilla. I fully agree

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 02:02 PM
We all wanted change. Now it has happened and we are pissed.

We wanted change on what happens on the field. Now what goes on in office building. Pioli needs to worry about that and let Hunt & Donovan take care of that side of the business. Pioli is letting petty stuff that he makes into a big deal because he wants all the glory because he is so inscure of himself. He wants the whole world to think it was him and not Brady/Bellichick was the reason for the Super Bowls in New England.

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 02:18 PM
How KK has a job is beyond me. Hell I could be better than that hack and I really only grasp 50% of what's going on in reality.

WHB is in bed with the Chiefs. They carry the Mitch Holthus show, and have the Chiefs Post Game Show. The play by play is still on KCFX 101 FM. But WHB has special access to the Chiefs because they're in business together.

I'm sure 610 would like to be in with the Chiefs. They showed their true colors on the Frank White firing thing. They're in bed with the Royals. So when White got fired and Nick Wright interviewed him, Wright was not allowed to post that interview as a podcast.

So neither station is squeaky clean. They're both whores with different pimps.

Reerun_KC
01-16-2012, 02:19 PM
Glad Pioli is watching that coffee budget.

Chocolate Hog
01-16-2012, 02:20 PM
ROFL this sounds like some half truths with a bunch of bullshit sprinkled in.

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 02:22 PM
I wonder if any of this crap has anything to do with Jeff Fisher not even considering coming to KC?

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-16-2012, 02:23 PM
I wonder if any of this crap has anything to do with Jeff Fisher not even considering coming to KC?



Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Fisher: Nope....

Pioli: Thanks for coming in....

Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Billick: Nope....

Pioli: Thanks for coming in....

Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Philbin: Nope....

Pioli: Thanks for coming in....

Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Jack Del Rio: Nope.....

Pioli: Thanks for coming in.....

Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Crennel: Sure Scott. Whatever you want me to do.

Pioli: Well Romeo....I guess you are hired....

Reerun_KC
01-16-2012, 02:24 PM
Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Fisher: Nope....

Pioli: Thanks for coming in....

Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Billick: Nope....

Pioli: Thanks for coming in....

Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Philbin: Nope....

Pioli: Thanks for coming in....

Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Jack Del Rio: Nope.....

Pioli: Thanks for coming in.....

Pioli: Will you start Cassel?

Crennel: Sure Scott. Whatever you want me to do.

Pioli: Well Romeo....I guess you are hired....

:banghead:

Claynus
01-16-2012, 02:41 PM
WHB is in bed with the Chiefs. They carry the Mitch Holthus show, and have the Chiefs Post Game Show. The play by play is still on KCFX 101 FM. But WHB has special access to the Chiefs because they're in business together.

I'm sure 610 would like to be in with the Chiefs. They showed their true colors on the Frank White firing thing. They're in bed with the Royals. So when White got fired and Nick Wright interviewed him, Wright was not allowed to post that interview as a podcast.

So neither station is squeaky clean. They're both whores with different pimps.

Truth bomb.

I haven't listened to a drop of 810 since it was clear Keitzman was Pioli's mistress.

And he's far, far dumber than Wright. Whether it's because he's truly ignorant or just paid to be a fluffer, I have no idea, and I don't care. They're basically Radio Rufus at this point.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 03:03 PM
Kent Babb on 610 right now.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 03:03 PM
Truth bomb.

I haven't listened to a drop of 810 since it was clear Keitzman was Pioli's mistress.

And he's far, far dumber than Wright. Whether it's because he's truly ignorant or just paid to be a fluffer, I have no idea, and I don't care. They're basically Radio Rufus at this point.

Other folks on 810, particularly Petro, are a lot harder on Pioli.

It might be because Keitzman has an ownership stake in the radio station. Or it could be that he just doesn't care about such things - this thread is living proof that a lot of people don't.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 03:05 PM
I fear you are overstating things a tad, Mr. chiefzilla1501.

You should experience security at the Intel campus. They make you feel like they think you stole money from your grandmother's wallet.

Some companies feel that an extremely high level of secrecy is paramount to maintaining a competitive advantage and the Chiefs don't want anyone to learn about our proprietary Thomas Jones Two Yard Play.

FAX

Intel has actual trade secrets they need to protect. The Chiefs PLAY FOOTBALL.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 03:07 PM
By the way... I tend to agree that you have to veer to one extreme, prove you're serious, and commit to that. So I get a lot of what they're doing. Haley's workout program in the first year was extreme, but he was consistent and the players knew every year that he was serious about it. Herm's commitment to youth... same way. It pissed off a lot of veterans, but it was worth it because he committed to it.

What I'm sensing here is that Pioli is doing the same in KC. He believes that this culture is necessary, and to move it toward the middle, he has to be extreme about how he enforces it. What remains to be seen is on a lot of fronts is if Pioli can make adjustments. On too many fronts, I don't see that. I see a relentless commitment to make this team a living, breathing replica of the Patriots.

The question is how he adjusts to this. He has some big opportunities this offseason to show he's willing to adjust. Will he hire an OC outside of the tree? Will he cut the cord with Cassel? And from this story, he can't act like he's above the media--he needs to come out, make a statement, and answer these questions. And it would be nice to hear that the Chiefs organization takes these concerns very seriously and isn't brushing them off as a bunch of disgruntled employees talking shit about their organization. The ball is in his court. I don't get hung up on mistakes, if the right adjustments are made after the mistake is made.

Perfect. I don't have much hope but I'd certainly get in line to worship at the altar of Pioli if he'd just make a few changes.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 03:10 PM
Glad Pioli is watching that coffee budget.

That's funny.

About 10 years ago, there was a company where the top man issued a corporate mandate that the company would no longer contract for coffee in company break rooms. If the employees wanted coffee, they needed to pay for it themselves.

That same man, along with a couple of his cronies, perpetrated the largest book-cooking scheme in the history of American business.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2012, 03:12 PM
Intel has actual trade secrets they need to protect. The Chiefs PLAY FOOTBALL.

Here's the thing...
I'd be okay if it felt like that was what the Chiefs were doing. Protecting secrets. It looks like it's going beyond that. Monitoring where employees are going to lunch and who they're going to lunch with. When you hear allegations that the Chiefs were combing through Denny Thum's phone and e-mail records--do we really believe that a guy in Thum's position of power is a threat to be leaking information? When somebody inside the organization is paying so much attention to Todd Haley that they're actually following him and his family around to a pizza place in Chicago?

That's why this feels icky to some of us. It feels like it's gone from monitoring to protect information to a step above where they are little micro-managing by monitoring people beyond business purposes.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 03:14 PM
Here's the thing...
I'd be okay if it felt like that was what the Chiefs were doing. Protecting secrets. It looks like it's going beyond that. Monitoring where employees are going to lunch and who they're going to lunch with. When you hear allegations that the Chiefs were combing through Denny Thum's phone and e-mail records--do we really believe that a guy in Thum's position of power is a threat to be leaking information? When somebody inside the organization is paying so much attention to Todd Haley that they're actually following him and his family around to a pizza place in Chicago?

That's why this feels icky to some of us. It feels like it's gone from monitoring to protect information to a step above where they are little micro-managing by monitoring people beyond business purposes.

In the end, all I care about is winning.

Not only does this stuff not contribute to winning, their preoccupation with it is probably one of the reasons they're NOT winning.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 03:21 PM
In the end, all I care about is winning.

Not only does this stuff not contribute to winning, their preoccupation with it is probably one of the reasons they're NOT winning.

Most importantly, it paints a picture of a guy who is on a power trip and cares more about that power than doing what's right.

It probably hasn't even entered his brain that he made a mistake with Matt Cassel.

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 03:29 PM
I think I've gotten to the bottom of the problem. It's not Pioli at all. It's one of the OTHER employees:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/09PKCC7VEfo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

FAX
01-16-2012, 03:32 PM
Intel has actual trade secrets they need to protect. The Chiefs PLAY FOOTBALL.

Kind of my point, Mr. htismaqe.

Mr. chiefzilla1501 seemed to indicate that "big corporations" somehow don't behave in this manner ... at least, that's how I interpreted his original comment. However, in these dark days of thievery and subterfuge and gangs capping ass on every street corner, security has become very important.

In our case, we own the proprietary rights to the Thomas Jones Two Yarder and we need to protect that asset. If that means shoving candy wrappers up every employee's colon, then so be it.

FAX

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 03:33 PM
What would be funny is a flash mob outside of the practice facility during minicamp to take cellphone pics of the practices. That would be a hoot.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 03:35 PM
What would be funny is a flash mob outside of the practice facility during minicamp to take cellphone pics of the practices. That would be a hoot.

This needs to be a Chiefsplanet event.

Chiefs say: WTF IS GOING ON?!?!?

DaWolf
01-16-2012, 03:53 PM
I wonder if some of these measures aren't tied to the whole tampering charges thing with Detroit. I am purely speculating here, but the timing fits if you look at when Thum suddenly resigned in 2010, and how shortly after that, the report came out that the Chiefs had filed tampering charges against the Lions. You remember Gunther came out and said that the Chiefs keep "wanting to dump their players. I would like to be there to catch a lot of them because I know a couple of those guys."

So, let's just speculate here, let's just say that Thum and Gunther were buddies, and Thum had been talking to Gunther about guys on our team. Let's then say that Pioli going over Thum's call log was in order to uncover this, and also to prove the tampering, that the league office ended up siding with the Chiefs on. Thum is forced to resign, and a few months later the story comes out that we did in fact file charges based on the evidence, some of which were the call logs. That ruling nets us some draft compensation.

If that were indeed the case, would we be looking in disgust at Pioli going over the call records?

tk13
01-16-2012, 03:55 PM
I wonder if some of these measures aren't tied to the whole tampering charges thing with Detroit. I am purely speculating here, but the timing fits if you look at when Thum suddenly resigned in 2010, and how shortly after that, the report came out that the Chiefs had filed tampering charges against the Lions. You remember Gunther came out and said that the Chiefs keep "wanting to dump their players. I would like to be there to catch a lot of them because I know a couple of those guys."

So, let's just speculate here, let's just say that Thum and Gunther were buddies, and Thum had been talking to Gunther about guys on our team. Let's then say that Pioli going over Thum's call log was in order to uncover this, and also to prove the tampering, that the league office ended up siding with the Chiefs on. Thum is forced to resign, and a few months later the story comes out that we did in fact file charges based on the evidence, some of which were the call logs. That ruling nets us some draft compensation.

If that were indeed the case, would we be looking in disgust at Pioli going over the call records?

I made that same suggestion earlier in the thread. Well not the part about looking at Pioli in disgust... but about whether these alleged techniques had anything to do with the tampering case.

DaWolf
01-16-2012, 03:56 PM
I made that same suggestion earlier in the thread. Well not the part about looking at Pioli in disgust... but about whether these alleged techniques had anything to do with the tampering case.

Ahh, sorry about that. This thread is too damned long to keep up... :)

donkhater
01-16-2012, 03:57 PM
You know, when it gets down to it, I really couldn't care less if the offices at One Arrowhead Drive are a nice homey place to work. All I care about is if the Chiefs win games. If Pioli is a huge, egomaniac and the Chiefs win games, great. If he is Mother Tereasa and he wins games, great. This is such a daytime soap opera IMO.

WhiteWhale
01-16-2012, 03:58 PM
I don't get the big deal.

Obviously Clark wants the office ran like professional business rather than the 'friends and family' atmosphere of Carl and Lamar.

I suppose I can understand the attachment fans have to these folks they know nothing about based on the unprecedented success we've had over the past 20 years.

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 03:59 PM
You know, when it gets down to it, I really couldn't care less if the offices at One Arrowhead Drive are a nice homey place to work. All I care about is if the Chiefs win games. If Pioli is a huge, egomaniac and the Chiefs win games, great. If he is Mother Tereasa and he wins games, great. This is such a daytime soap opera IMO.

Shit rolls downhill in an organization

Reaper16
01-16-2012, 04:01 PM
The big deal is simply that Pioli and Matt Cassel aren't held to the same exacting standards of so-called accountability as every other employee in the organization is. That's the big deal.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 04:03 PM
I don't get the big deal.

Obviously Clark wants the office ran like professional business rather than the 'friends and family' atmosphere of Carl and Lamar.

I suppose I can understand the attachment fans have to these folks they know nothing about based on the unprecedented success we've had over the past 20 years.

They're not running it like a professional business, they're operating it like a covert government agency or the Mafia.

There's a BIG difference.

stevieray
01-16-2012, 04:05 PM
They're not running it like a professional business, they're operating it like a covert government agency or the Mafia.

There's a BIG difference.

...and it starts the second you enter the gates.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 04:05 PM
The big deal is simply that Pioli and Matt Cassel aren't held to the same exacting standards of so-called accountability as every other employee in the organization is. That's the big deal.

Bingo.

Have we even heard Pioli criticize Cassel ONCE in three years?

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 04:06 PM
Bingo.

Have we even heard Pioli criticize Cassel ONCE in three years?

If he would or did, it would be through a leak

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 04:11 PM
You can work for the Chiefs as an unpaid snitch. You're a "Marketing Intern," but your real job is being part of the Pioli Secret Police, ferreting out disloyalty and messy stairwells.

The Walls have Eyes.
The Ceilings have Ears.

BTW: You can tell the "marketing interns" by their matching brown shirts and red & black arm bands.

They also call Mr. Pioli "Il Duce."

http://www.kcchiefs.com/arrowhead/job-board.html

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 04:13 PM
You can work for the Chiefs as an unpaid snitch. You're a "Marketing Intern," but your real job is being part of the Pioli Secret Police, ferreting out disloyalty and messy stairwells.

The Walls have Eyes.
The Ceilings have Ears.

BTW: You can tell the "marketing interns" by their matching brown shirts and red & black arm bands.

They also call Mr. Pioli "Il Duce."

http://www.kcchiefs.com/arrowhead/job-board.html

I'm sure Scotty has a plant on ChiefsPlanet. Guys like him try to control all angles

Chocolate Hog
01-16-2012, 04:14 PM
Bingo.

Have we even heard Pioli criticize Cassel ONCE in three years?

Yeah it'd be smart for a GM to call out one of his players in public.

WhiteWhale
01-16-2012, 04:16 PM
They're not running it like a professional business, they're operating it like a covert government agency or the Mafia.

There's a BIG difference.

I see your point.

That's nothing like the corporate world at all.

WhiteWhale
01-16-2012, 04:18 PM
The big deal is simply that Pioli and Matt Cassel aren't held to the same exacting standards of so-called accountability as every other employee in the organization is. That's the big deal.

I think that is a sophistry.

FAX
01-16-2012, 04:21 PM
That's a good idea and all, Mr. gblowfish. But I prefer to be paid for my snitching. At the very least, I expect to get my own sentence reduced.

I just had the unfortunate experience of listening to Babb on 610. Afterwards, it occurred to me that the biggest and most interesting aspect of this story is the Haley part. All the rest can be chalked up to a bunch of Lamarites feeling disenfranchised by the new regime ... and, of course, the fact that Arrowhead is obviously infected by some low-life bastard who leaves candy wrappers lying about willy-nilly (and that gives the scum-sucking cretin credit for a willy).

The Haley part is interesting, though. He tells Babb to expect a call from a number he won't recognize (ostensibly due to a concern over the alleged cell phone bug problem) and that there isn't a "safe" place to talk at the facility. 4 days later, he's fired.

1 plus 1 equalates to dos in my book of wacky, yet easy to remember, formulas. It's this side of the story that needs to be investigated ... preferably by some hippie chicks with large bosoms.

FAX

Claynus
01-16-2012, 04:23 PM
Yeah it'd be smart for a GM to call out one of his players in public.

You can be critical of a player and not call them out.

How many times have we heard someone in a press conference say "he knows he needs to play better," etc?

Discuss Thrower
01-16-2012, 04:23 PM
They're not running it like a professional business, they're operating it like a covert government agency or the Mafia.

There's a BIG difference.

Well the GM does look like Tony Soprano..

Claynus
01-16-2012, 04:26 PM
It's threads like this one that make me miss 'Hamas.' He'd be roasting Pioli over an open spit right now.

seaofred
01-16-2012, 04:27 PM
Maybe Pioli was mad that they spend $3 million a year on coffee, which kept him from being able to sign a better backup Safety when Berry went down.

Reaper16
01-16-2012, 04:28 PM
It's threads like this one that make me miss 'Hamas.' He'd be roasting Pioli over an open spit right now.
Word from Hamas, sourced from my Facebook wall: "I can no longer support this team under this regime. Wow, just wow."

Coogs
01-16-2012, 04:28 PM
I'm not sure I understand the significance of the gum/candy wrapper in the stairwell, and I have not read through all 670 some posts looking for the answer.

But instead of just leaving it there for a week, then picking it up and making an issue of it at a meeting, wouldn't the logical thing to have done been going to the custodian for that area... or the head of the custodian department... and let them know what your expectations were as to the cleanliness of the facility? Maybe even in a private setting?

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 04:29 PM
Maybe Clark was mad that they spend $30 bucks a year on coffee, which kept him from being able to sign a better backup Safety when Berry went down.

FYP

Urc Burry
01-16-2012, 04:29 PM
Hasn't Haley always been superstitious and paranoid? I dont buy it

Claynus
01-16-2012, 04:29 PM
I'm not sure I understand the significance of the gum/candy wrapper in the stairwell, and I have not read through all 670 some posts looking for the answer.

But instead of just leaving it there for a week, then picking it up and making an issue of it at a meeting, wouldn't the logical thing to have done been going to the custodian for that area... or the head of the custodian department... and let them know what your expectations were as to the cleanliness of the facility? Maybe even in a private setting?

No. Pioli saw an opportunity to wave his big corporate dick around and make a scene.

Would you expect anything less from a guy who wears oversized jackets?

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 04:30 PM
I'm not sure I understand the significance of the gum/candy wrapper in the stairwell, and I have not read through all 670 some posts looking for the answer.

But instead of just leaving it there for a week, then picking it up and making an issue of it at a meeting, wouldn't the logical thing to have done been going to the custodian for that area... or the head of the custodian department... and let them know what your expectations were as to the cleanliness of the facility? Maybe even in a private setting?

Not how things are done in Auschwitch

gblowfish
01-16-2012, 04:30 PM
I'm not sure I understand the significance of the gum/candy wrapper in the stairwell, and I have not read through all 670 some posts looking for the answer.

But instead of just leaving it there for a week, then picking it up and making an issue of it at a meeting, wouldn't the logical thing to have done been going to the custodian for that area... or the head of the custodian department... and let them know what your expectations were as to the cleanliness of the facility? Maybe even in a private setting?

Captain Queeg wants to know who ate the strawberries.

seaofred
01-16-2012, 04:31 PM
FYP

My post didn't need fixed. I typed exactly what I wanted too.




















Just kidding. LMAO

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 04:33 PM
My post didn't need fixed. I typed exactly what I wanted too.




















Just kidding. LMAO

Sorry I can't like you yet. Not enough posts

Coogs
01-16-2012, 04:35 PM
No. Pioli saw an opportunity to wave his big corporate dick around and make a scene.



I guess that is what I don't understand. Don't understand that type of thinking at all. :shrug:

seaofred
01-16-2012, 04:36 PM
Sorry I can't like you yet. Not enough posts

How many do i have to have?

Claynus
01-16-2012, 04:41 PM
I guess that is what I don't understand. Don't understand that type of thinking at all. :shrug:

Big jobs, big money, big, unchecked egos.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 04:44 PM
You have to be a colossal dickbag to put this up while you're going 4-12.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/12/12/11/24/1gbrNB.SlMa.81.jpg

ILChief
01-16-2012, 04:45 PM
I wish babb would have focused his efforts on outing cassel as a joke of a qb instead of gum wrappers and parking spaces

Mr. Flopnuts
01-16-2012, 04:46 PM
Not how things are done in Auschwitch

well it's the last train to Auschwitz and I'll meet you at the station. You don't need no luggage it's your final destination AH WHOA WHOA WHOA!

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 04:46 PM
well it's the last train to Auschwitz and I'll meet you at the station. You don't need no luggage it's your final destination AH WHOA WHOA WHOA!

LMAO Good one

Urc Burry
01-16-2012, 04:47 PM
Eric Berry just tweeted "wonder what they're gonna make up tonight" :shrug:

KCrockaholic
01-16-2012, 04:50 PM
Eric Berry just tweeted "wonder what they're gonna make up tonight" :shrug:

I saw that. What the fuck is he talking about? He does that shit all the time. So vague.

Messier
01-16-2012, 04:54 PM
Eric Berry just tweeted "wonder what they're gonna make up tonight" :shrug:

Then he's part of the problem and needs to go.

philfree
01-16-2012, 04:55 PM
The press in KC hate Pioli and his ways so they are going to embrace crap like this. Sour Grapes is all see when I read the article. Nothing to see here IMO.

trndobrd
01-16-2012, 05:03 PM
Bingo.

Have we even heard Pioli criticize Cassel ONCE in three years?


Have you heard Pioli criticize ANY player or coach in the last three years? No. Did he publicly criticize any of the players that have been cut? No. Did he publicly criticize Todd Haley after he was fired? Not really.

By your definition 'accountability' = public criticism, the entire organziation is made up of marshmallows.

KCUnited
01-16-2012, 05:08 PM
The press in KC hate Pioli and his ways so they are going to embrace crap like this. Sour Grapes is all see when I read the article. Nothing to see here IMO.

Sports Illustrator writer Jim Trotter was the first to talk about employees at Arrowhead stating they thought their phones were tapped on 12/14, the day after Haley was fired.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 05:09 PM
The press in KC hate Pioli and his ways so they are going to embrace crap like this. Sour Grapes is all see when I read the article. Nothing to see here IMO.

Babb said he has no intentions at all against Pioli. Said he has a great working relationship with him. Story just fell in place among with the 30 people he interviewed. No sour grapes at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

Just Passin' By
01-16-2012, 05:15 PM
1.) The blinds thing is done at Gillette, too, with a nearby hotel. It's done because people were found to be spying on practices.

2.) Parking in the boss' spot is a way to get into a lot of trouble. This isn't news.

3.) Tracking company-issued employee phones has been going on for a long time. Here's an article on it from back in 2004

http://news.cnet.com/Big-boss-is-watching/2100-1036_3-5379953.html

philfree
01-16-2012, 05:18 PM
Babb said he has no intentions at all against Pioli. Said he has a great working relationship with him. Story just fell in place among with the 30 people he interviewed. No sour grapes at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

That makes since. What's he supposed to do act like JW?

People lost their jobs so perhaps they're embellishing things just a little. I didn't read anything in the article that upset me as a fan. :shrug:

Reaper16
01-16-2012, 05:20 PM
Just what this thread needed: a defense of anything Patriot by the increasingly-erroneously-named Just Passin' By.

DRU
01-16-2012, 05:20 PM
I wish babb would have focused his efforts on outing cassel as a joke of a qb instead of gum wrappers and parking spaces

Me too.

Just Passin' By
01-16-2012, 05:23 PM
Just what this thread needed: a defense of anything Patriot by the increasingly-erroneously-named Just Passin' By.

Try not to be an idiot.

I explained the blinds and noted that tracking has been around for years. That's not defending anything Patriot.

ILChief
01-16-2012, 05:25 PM
Me too.

And the one time someone at the star (mellinger) writes a good piece about the chiefs needing an upgrade at qb, freaking babb buries it with his KGB/horrible bosses crap.

Jerm
01-16-2012, 05:27 PM
Babb has always come off as a yes man to me and a Pioli/Clark lackey so the fact that he was author of this article was a real eye opener for me.

And let's be honest, he has ZERO to gain from this and a whole helluva lot to lose...which is why I tend to believe what he gathered.

seaofred
01-16-2012, 05:27 PM
I have company issued cell phone, and guess what.. I don't get the bill, so I'm sure they have a record of my calls. Also at my work they monitor e-mails and internet usage and I just work for a window manufacturing company.

The only way I could see the Chiefs getting in trouble is if they did mess with Haley's personnel cell phone.

L.A. Chieffan
01-16-2012, 05:29 PM
I don't see a problem with it. Would you rather have other teams spying on them?

seaofred
01-16-2012, 05:29 PM
Babb has always come off as a yes man to me and a Pioli/Clark lackey so the fact that he was author of this article was a real eye opener for me.

And let's be honest, he has ZERO to gain from this and a whole helluva lot to lose...which is why I tend to believe what he gathered.


He has a TON to gain by writing this. Do you know how many big time newspapers and websites have now heard of him? It's great for his career.

Jerm
01-16-2012, 05:30 PM
He has a TON to gain by writing this. Do you know how many big time newspapers and websites have now heard of him? It's great for his career.

I meant in local circles and in his K.C. career...should've specified.

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 05:32 PM
If Pioli was trying to get Haley to resign, he was probably more likely messing with his head than with his cellphone

seaofred
01-16-2012, 05:34 PM
I meant in local circles and in his K.C. career...should've specified.

You are right there, but I bet he wants his career to take him to bigger places than KC.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 05:47 PM
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/1/16/2711700/kent-babb-kc-star-kansas-city-chiefs#storyjump

"He was talking to somebody else in the media room in the press room where he does the press conferences and I had kinda stepped into the locker room and I was walking back to where our little holding area is and he followed me back. And that happens occasionally. They'll have something to say. or want you to know something, or want to yell at you about something.

"But this time was a little bit different. He was pretty high strung and said he wanted to talk to me. We walked over this way and over that way and into this conference room. And he said you'll get a call that will be from a number you don't know. And that's a call I haven't gotten but that's the way it goes. He was fired four days later. This was the Thursday before the Jets game."

dallaschiefsfan
01-16-2012, 06:28 PM
That's a good idea and all, Mr. gblowfish. But I prefer to be paid for my snitching. At the very least, I expect to get my own sentence reduced.

I just had the unfortunate experience of listening to Babb on 610. Afterwards, it occurred to me that the biggest and most interesting aspect of this story is the Haley part. All the rest can be chalked up to a bunch of Lamarites feeling disenfranchised by the new regime ... and, of course, the fact that Arrowhead is obviously infected by some low-life bastard who leaves candy wrappers lying about willy-nilly (and that gives the scum-sucking cretin credit for a willy).

The Haley part is interesting, though. He tells Babb to expect a call from a number he won't recognize (ostensibly due to a concern over the alleged cell phone bug problem) and that there isn't a "safe" place to talk at the facility. 4 days later, he's fired.

1 plus 1 equalates to dos in my book of wacky, yet easy to remember, formulas. It's this side of the story that needs to be investigated ... preferably by some hippie chicks with large bosoms.

FAX

People keep saying this as if it must be true. I know it's not true in at least two instances. I think you're making a seriously wrong assumption in playing the disgruntled employee card.

Brock
01-16-2012, 06:31 PM
Eric Berry just tweeted "wonder what they're gonna make up tonight" :shrug:

LMAO

Brock
01-16-2012, 06:32 PM
People keep saying this as if it must be true. I know it's not true in at least two instances. I think you're making a seriously wrong assumption in playing the disgruntled employee card.

Which two? How do you know that? Details, please.

GloryDayz
01-16-2012, 06:33 PM
Hey, the Chiefs ARE run like North Korea. Here's a handy chart:

http://i44.tinypic.com/zy8t2o.gif

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

FAX
01-16-2012, 06:37 PM
People keep saying this as if it must be true. I know it's not true in at least two instances. I think you're making a seriously wrong assumption in playing the disgruntled employee card.

In the interview to which I was referencing in my prior above previous post, Babb seemed to downplay the statements by the ex-employees, Mr. dallaschiefsfan. Although he did say that he thought there was more to it than mere disgruntlement, he didn't indicate what that "more" was exactly.

There does seem to be some weird stuff going on. For example, the prohibition on conversations between department personnel is strange ... very strange, in fact. Yet, nobody seems to want to provide any supporting facts other than they "felt" uncomfortable.

If you have some fact stuff, I'd love to hear some, though.

FAX

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-16-2012, 08:31 PM
Watergate meets Arrowhead, allegedly

Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2012, 10:28 PM EST

Getty Images
On one weekend every year, four highly-significant football games land on the NFL’s center stage. This year, as we were still digesting the epic Saints-49ers finish and a Broncos-Patriots game that never really got started, and while we were anticipating Texans-Ravens and Giants-Packers, the Kansas City Star nearly slipped a potential four-alarm story through the national five hole.

According to Kent Babb of the Star, former Chiefs coach Todd Haley believes that the team bugged rooms at the facility and “tampered with” Haley’s phone.

That’s the most compelling takeaway from a lengthy article that details many of the actual and/or perceived idiosyncrasies of the Scott Pioli regime. Much of the information comes from former employees who naturally aren’t happy with the changes that were made, no matter how unreasonable or reasonable or necessary or unnecessary they may have been.

But the most potentially powerful nugget, as culled by Peter King in his latest Monday Morning Quarterback, comes from Haley’s allegation of wiretapping.

Like Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men, it’s unwise to accuse the Nathan Jessups of the world of serious misconduct absent, you know, facts. If Haley believes that the Chiefs are bugging rooms and/or tapping phones, Haley needs to provide chapter-and-verse evidence.

If he’s right, people won’t simply lose their jobs; they’ll possibly land in jail, and for good reason.

The allegation is so inherently troublesome that we think the league should launch an immediate investigation. This is a far bigger issue than brazenly videotaping defensive coaching signals during games, the foundation of the “Spygate” scandal in New England. If Haley is right, the Chiefs have been violating state and federal law in the name of truly spying on their employees.

That’s why accusations of this nature shouldn’t be tossed around recklessly.

We’ll give Haley the benefit of the doubt and assume that he’s not embellishing, exaggerating, and/or fabricating. If the league reacts the same way, the investigation will have already begun.



getnickwrightnick wright

Good job by Florio. Calls for league investigation. He's right RT @ProFootballTalk Watergate meets Arrowhead literally http://wp.me/p14QSB-KQ4

Claynus
01-16-2012, 08:34 PM
It would be freakin' sweet if Pioli got tossed in jail.

Surely Clark can pin the blame on him.

After all, there was no wiretapping before Pioli arrived!

Sodomized by a 400 lb man, a fitting punishment for trading for Matt Cassel.

SEE YOU IN HELL, SCOTT

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-16-2012, 08:35 PM
MikeSilver Michael Silver
If Scott Pioli was reading all my texts to Todd Haley... well, all I can say is, IT IS WHAT IT IS... @kentbabb

Chocolate Hog
01-16-2012, 08:36 PM
Pioli going to jail lol yeah right. It's more likely that Haley's paranoia about being bugged came from alcohol withdraw.

seaofred
01-16-2012, 08:38 PM
Pioli is from the "Spygate" era of New England.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 08:38 PM
The national media is way more on this than the local KC hacks. But there is no story there at all, right? LMAO

Chocolate Hog
01-16-2012, 08:39 PM
The national media is way more on this than the local KC hacks. But there is no story there at all, right? LMAO

You trust Kevin Keitzman to talk about something other than his golf game?

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 08:41 PM
Chiefs hoping the sunlight melts that snowball that's gathering speed, rolling downhill.

KCUnited
01-16-2012, 08:42 PM
Company provided cell phone, just one of the perks we offer should you choose to come on as Offensive Coordinator.

Seriously, no one worth a **** is going to want to be a part of this perceived disaster.

FAX
01-16-2012, 08:47 PM
Company provided cell phone, just one of the perks we offer should you choose to come on as Offensive Coordinator.

Seriously, no one worth a **** is going to want to be a part of this perceived disaster.

From Deadspin;

The Kansas City Chiefs Might Have The Worst Workplace In America

The Kansas City Star came out with a story that paints a provocative, troubling picture of life in the Chiefs offices under Scott Pioli. To ensure no one would notice, they published it on Saturday night. But we're more than happy to dive in to the tales of a workplace gone mad with paranoia and secrecy—a place where Todd Haley is convinced his personal cell phone is being tapped, and comes off as a sympathetic figure. Think Airstrip One, just off I-70.

It all started when Pioli was hired away from the Patriots in 2009, after a decade of success and a major role in the Spygate scandal in New England. It had only been three years since Lamar Hunt's death, and the Chiefs were trying to chance the culture of the place. That meant splitting up the duties of business operations and football operations, and that wasn't what Scott Pioli wanted. If he was going to take the Chiefs job, he would insist on total control. In the end, he received it.

More here ...

http://deadspin.com/5876426/the-kansas-city-chiefs-might-have-the-worst-workplace-in-america

FAX

DeezNutz
01-16-2012, 08:50 PM
Good press. Piol...err...Scott (sorry, bud!!) should be proud.

Disaster of a PR year for that fat fuck. Wish we could ship him back to NE.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 08:52 PM
And the team has done nothing PR wise about it. They could try to squash it real quick but they are just playing right along with it. That's the craziest part.

Claynus
01-16-2012, 08:53 PM
Maybe Clark is waiting for Pioli to fall on his sword and resign so he doesn't owe him shit.

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 08:54 PM
What we have here is a failure to cmunicate

DeezNutz
01-16-2012, 08:54 PM
And the team has done nothing PR wise about it. They could try to squash it real quick but they are just playing right along with it. That's the craziest part.

Upper management in KC is not very savvy in this regard, apparently.

stonedstooge
01-16-2012, 09:06 PM
Watch Scotty do something dumb and throw gasoline on the flames

BossChief
01-16-2012, 09:08 PM
What the fuck is going on in here?

Claynus
01-16-2012, 09:09 PM
Seriously, Pioli could never work as a GM ever again if there are legal repercussions to this.

That would be fucking awesome.

Fraud.

ChiefsCountry
01-16-2012, 09:10 PM
Upper management in KC is not very savvy in this regard, apparently.

Its stupid on their part but they would rather strike fear over a candy wrapper instead of what the fan base and city thinks of them.

Chocolate Hog
01-16-2012, 09:10 PM
Seriously, Pioli could never work as a GM ever again if there are legal repercussions to this.

That would be ****ing awesome.

Fraud.

I'd be willing to bet nothing happens and this is nothing more than media sensationalism.

BossChief
01-16-2012, 09:13 PM
Why would that be awesome?

Claynus
01-16-2012, 09:15 PM
Because I hate him, and wish suffering upon him.

Carlota69
01-16-2012, 09:27 PM
Seriously, what coordinator worth a shit is going to take the gig after this atrocity? Real or Not, Arrowgate is very very bad for this franchise.

Mk19
01-16-2012, 09:31 PM
Because I hate him, and wish suffering upon him.

I understand those feelings, but I'm just not there with Pioli. I want to see how all of this plays out before I overreact to anything.

There is, without a doubt, some truth to this in my mind. But I also think there are some major over exaggerations as well.

Carlota69
01-16-2012, 09:37 PM
I understand those feelings, but I'm just not there with Pioli. I want to see how all of this plays out before I overreact to anything.

There is, without a doubt, some truth to this in my mind. But I also think there are some major over exaggerations as well.

And you may very well right, but, would you take a job at a place that this kind of stuff is being accused of? Real or not, if you are talented at what you do (Football coach in this case), would this place be where you chose to work or would you either stay where you are or take another offer? I wouldnt work for a radio station that had questionable ethics, treating employees poorly, especially if I had choices.

I just dont see this as being a recruiting tool for a talented OC for KC. This is bad, exaggerated or not.