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Mr. Laz
01-15-2012, 07:22 PM
Looking at Crennel's circle of coordinators
By Josh Looney
Posted 27 minutes ago


Romeo Crennel has been associated with a number of experienced play-callers over the past decade

New Chiefs head coach Romeo Crennel publicly backed his defensive staff last week, revealing his plans to retain Kansas City’s defensive assistants. As far as the offensive staff goes, Crennel has only said that the evaluation process is ongoing.

Crennel has been given complete authority to set his own staff for his first season as head coach in 2012, but has yet to make any staff changes official.

With several coaching contracts set to expire, some degree of turnover is anticipated on the offensive side of the football. Front and center, Crennel’s search for an offensive coordinator currently dominates the spotlight.

Crennel has kept his candidate list under wraps thus far, but has said he’ll conduct a search that spans both internally and externally. He’s expected to conduct interviews this week in Orlando, Florida at the East-West Shrine Bowl and could extend that search into Senior Bowl Week beginning January 23rd in Mobile, Alabama.

In some cases, the Chiefs are waiting on permission to interview candidates under contract with other teams.

Though Crennel has yet to identify any specific candidates for the position, he has a recent working history with a number of experienced NFL play-callers.

If familiarity and past play-calling experience is something Crennel is searching for, the following names have been associated with Crennel as recently as the 2000 season.

Chiefs Quarterbacks Coach Jim Zorn

Years with Crennel: 1 (KC, 2011)

Years of Play-Calling Experience: 2 (WAS, 2008-09)

Chiefs Assistant Head Coach/RBs Maurice Carthon

Years with Crennel: 16 (KC, 2010-2011; CLE, 2005-06; NYJ, 1997-99; NE, 1994-96; NYG, 1985-91)

Years of Play-Calling Experience: 6 (CLE, 2005-06; DAL, 2003-04, DET, 2001-02)

Vikings Offensive Line Coach Jeff Davidson

Years with Crennel: 6 (CLE, 2005-06; NE, 2001-04)

Years of Play-Calling Experience: 5 (CLE, 2006; CAR, 2007-10)

Panthers Offensive Coordinator Rob Chudzinski

Years with Crennel: 2 (CLE, 2007-08)

Years of Play-Calling Experience: 3 (CLE, 2007-08; CAR, 2011)

Dolphins Offensive Coordinator Brian Daboll

Years with Crennel: 4 (NE, 2001-04)

Years of Play-Calling Experience: 3 (CLE, 2009-10; MIA, 2011)

Titans Offensive Coordinator Chris Palmer

Years with Crennel: 5 (CLE, 2000; NE, 1993-96)

Years of Play-Calling Experience: 7 (TEN, 2011; HOU, 2002-05; JAC, 1997-98)

Let’s start with the in-house connections.

Most recently, Crennel has worked alongside Chiefs assistants Jim Zorn and Maurice Carthon. Each brings a different area of expertise to the staff.

Zorn is an expert in the passing game, having played the quarterback position at an All-Pro level for the Seattle Seahawks. He’s seen his starting quarterbacks post career seasons at every stop prior to joining the Chiefs staff last year and was heavily involved with offensive game-planning in 2011.

Though Zorn has never held the offensive coordinator title for an NFL team, he’s been intimately involved in scheming the pass game throughout his professional coaching tenure.

Most recently, Zorn held play-calling responsibilities while serving as head coach of the Washington Redskins (2008-09). Ironically, he gave up those responsibilities midway through the 2009 season following a loss to the Chiefs.

Zorn also brings an interesting dynamic to the table. He comes from a different offensive background than the Chiefs operated the past three seasons, but also knows the offensive personnel well enough to mix new philosophies into Kansas City’s current offensive system.

Carthon is the rushing expert and played for Crennel as a member of the New York Giants during the 1980s.

Interestingly, Carthon was Crennel’s first offensive coordinator in Cleveland (2005-06). The Browns offense struggled under Carthon’s guidance, but Cleveland’s rushing attack was its strong point.

Carthon was relieved of his duties as Browns offensive coordinator 22 games into Crennel’s head coaching tenure, but Crennel wanted to keep Carthon on board. Browns management overruled and pushed Crennel to make an in-season change.

When Carthon resigned as Cleveland’s OC six games into the 2006 season, Crennel promoted assistant head coach/offensive line coach Jeff Davidson to offensive coordinator. Davidson originally followed Crennel from New England to Cleveland.

After finishing out the 2006 season as Cleveland’s play-caller, Davidson accepted the offensive coordinator position under John Fox in Carolina. The Panthers built their offense behind a strong running attack, which fit Davidson’s past as an offensive line and tight ends coach.

Davidson joined the Vikings last season as offensive line coach under Leslie Frazier.

After Davidson departed Cleveland for Carolina, Crennel hired Rob Chudzinski away from San Diego to become the Browns new offensive coordinator. Cleveland saw immediate success under Chudzinski, posting a top-10 offense and a 10-win season in 2007.

The 10-win campaign remains the only season Cleveland has posted double-digit victories since bringing NFL football back to the city in 1999.

After Crennel was relieved of his duties in Cleveland, Chudzinski served two seasons as assistant head coach in San Diego (2009-10) before joining Ron Rivera as offensive coordinator in Carolina.

The Panthers offense and rookie quarterback Cam Newton thrived under Chudzinski last season, leading to interest from other teams looking to fill their head coaching vacancies. Chudzinski interviewed for the head coaching job in Tampa Bay last week and also interviewed for head jobs in Jacksonville and St. Louis this offseason.

Coaching worlds often intertwine and intersect with interesting connections, which is the case with Brian Daboll.

Daboll replaced Chudzinski as Cleveland’s offensive coordinator after Crennel’s staff was let go following the 2008 season. He coordinated two years for the Browns before joining Tony Sparano’s staff as OC last season in Miami.

Currently the offensive coordinator on a staff without a head coach, Daboll’s future in Miami appears in the air. He previously spent four seasons (one as a defensive assistant) with Crennel in New England from 2001-04.

Flipping roles, Crennel was once hired as defensive coordinator in Cleveland (2000) by Titans offensive coordinator Chris Palmer. Crennel served as Cleveland’s coordinator during Palmer’s final season as Browns head coach. Saints offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael, Jr. was also part of that staff, serving as Cleveland’s tight ends coach.

Palmer was rumored to be a candidate for the Chiefs offensive coordinator position last season before joining the Titans.

There are a number of other experienced coordinators with recent ties to Crennel who are unlikely to join the Chiefs staff because of taking new jobs.

Crennel recently worked with Charlie Weis (hired as head coach at the University of Kansas), Josh McDaniels (hired as New England’s offensive coordinator), Tony Sparano (hired as the New York Jets offensive coordinator), John Hufnagel (longtime head coach and GM of the Calgary Stampeders), Todd Haley (former Chiefs head coach).

In addition, media has speculated on a number of external names with no previous ties to Crennel. It will be interesting to see how Crennel’s search shakes out over the next week.

O.city
01-15-2012, 07:23 PM
While Babb and Mellinger have written solid pieces this week, Looney follows up with this little piece of drivel.

ChiefsandO'sfan
01-15-2012, 07:24 PM
Trying to sell us crap just like the chiefs.

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 07:25 PM
Trying to sell us crap just like the chiefs.

You do realize that this came from the team site don't you?

I actually thought it was very informative.

Chocolate Hog
01-15-2012, 07:26 PM
Bunch of turds

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 07:32 PM
I think out of all his past connections, I'd want Chud here the most. But it's not happening.

It always seems we are looking for a HC and assistants in the worst possible years.

Okie_Apparition
01-15-2012, 07:35 PM
Fritos chili cheese pie for the win

trndobrd
01-15-2012, 08:42 PM
If the Chiefs really are looking at candidates that are currently working for playoff teams, it pretty much excludes everyone on this list.

Deberg_1990
01-15-2012, 08:46 PM
Palmer might be ok. Hes had some high flying O's in the past with the Jags. He helped develop Romo and was with the Giants when they won the SB a few years back.

The Bad Guy
01-15-2012, 08:57 PM
Palmer is the Titans OC.

KCChiefsFan88
01-15-2012, 08:59 PM
Looney is the next generation Rufus Dawes

NJChiefsFan
01-15-2012, 08:59 PM
I think Looney would be a really good writer for the Chiefs if his boss wasn't the Chiefs themselves. He is a homer, but he is also very detailed. He just doesn't put an opinion at all in his articles so they read like an encylopedia about the Chiefs written by the Chiefs.

SNR
01-15-2012, 09:10 PM
The Chiefs were given a gift with these Saints and Packers losses. There are quality candidates abound on these staffs, and this time they don't have to wait until the freakin Super Bowl to hire them.

For once I'd like to see the Chiefs shoot for the stars and hire Clements or Lombardi. Just for goddamn once. No old fart never-will-bes like Muir. No psychopaths like Haley. No morons like Pendergast and Herm. No complacent in-house moves like Gunther. I mean daring to go outside the fucking tree.... hell, outside the fucking forest.... to find a quality coach well-respected around the league with a damn impressive resume.

DBoweShow
01-15-2012, 09:23 PM
The Chiefs were given a gift with these Saints and Packers losses. There are quality candidates abound on these staffs, and this time they don't have to wait until the freakin Super Bowl to hire them.

For once I'd like to see the Chiefs shoot for the stars and hire Clements or Lombardi. Just for goddamn once. No old fart never-will-bes like Muir. No psychopaths like Haley. No morons like Pendergast and Herm. No complacent in-house moves like Gunther. I mean daring to go outside the ****ing tree.... hell, outside the ****ing forest.... to find a quality coach well-respected around the league with a damn impressive resume.

THIS!:thumb:

TEX
01-15-2012, 10:23 PM
The Chiefs were given a gift with these Saints and Packers losses. There are quality candidates abound on these staffs, and this time they don't have to wait until the freakin Super Bowl to hire them.

For once I'd like to see the Chiefs shoot for the stars and hire Clements or Lombardi. Just for goddamn once. No old fart never-will-bes like Muir. No psychopaths like Haley. No morons like Pendergast and Herm. No complacent in-house moves like Gunther. I mean daring to go outside the ****ing tree.... hell, outside the ****ing forest.... to find a quality coach well-respected around the league with a damn impressive resume.

:clap: THIS!

jAZ
01-15-2012, 10:49 PM
The Chiefs were given a gift with these Saints and Packers losses. There are quality candidates abound on these staffs, and this time they don't have to wait until the freakin Super Bowl to hire them.

For once I'd like to see the Chiefs shoot for the stars and hire Clements or Lombardi. Just for goddamn once. No old fart never-will-bes like Muir. No psychopaths like Haley. No morons like Pendergast and Herm. No complacent in-house moves like Gunther. I mean daring to go outside the fucking tree.... hell, outside the fucking forest.... to find a quality coach well-respected around the league with a damn impressive resume.
That was the Pioli move hiring Haley 3 years ago.

jAZ
01-15-2012, 10:50 PM
I think Looney would be a really good writer for the Chiefs if his boss wasn't the Chiefs themselves. He is a homer, but he is also very detailed. He just doesn't put an opinion at all in his articles so they read like an encylopedia about the Chiefs written by the Chiefs.

I liked that about this article. Lots of (to me) new, useful information.

BossChief
01-15-2012, 11:20 PM
That was the Pioli move hiring Haley 3 years ago.

Bill Parcells gave Todd Haley his first coaching job with the jets and from there followed him to Dallas.

He was tree, through and through.

Cornstock
01-15-2012, 11:43 PM
Sounds like the best option is Chud. I would love it if we could bring that guy in but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think that any of the others sound too appealing unfortunately. I just really do not want a former offensive line coach to call plays, they always seem so narrow

SNR
01-15-2012, 11:45 PM
That was the Pioli move hiring Haley 3 years ago.Doesn't matter who hired him. It was a bad call.

Sorter
01-16-2012, 12:22 AM
As far as future OC's go, I would love to see Clements hired. We have no chance with Chud, apart from promising him a future head coaching job. As far as past hires go, I do think Haley would have been a good hire if we hadn't had Pioli as a GM or if they hadn't had issues. Whether that would have ensured us for long term success and better draft selections, I'm not sure. The past two drafts have been pretty solid in Asamoah, Berry, Kendrick, Arenas, Bailey, Hudson, Baldwin, Houston, Moeaki.

WildTurkey
01-16-2012, 12:26 AM
Clements would be a home run hire for OC but I have a gut feeling its going to be a tree hire like Brian Ferentz which all things considered wouldn't be terrible

jd1020
01-16-2012, 01:14 AM
Clements would be a home run hire for OC but I have a gut feeling its going to be a tree hire like Brian Ferentz which all things considered wouldn't be terrible

What would make it a homerun?

He's been around for 19 years and he's been a QB coach for all but 1 year. He was OC in Buffalo for 1 year before getting fired.

WildTurkey
01-16-2012, 01:26 AM
I like what he's done in Green Bay working with that offense especially the QBs not that Rodgers needs much help but Flynn has also looked solid in his limited snaps.. With QB currently being our biggest weakness I'd like someone whose had some success with them and Clements seems to be that guy.. Hell he even got a good season out of Tommy Maddox for Christs sake

WildTurkey
01-16-2012, 01:28 AM
What would make it a homerun?

He's been around for 19 years and he's been a QB coach for all but 1 year. He was OC in Buffalo for 1 year before getting fired.

He was in Buffalo two years and had the amazing Kelly Holcomb to work with and wasn't terrible there considering

jd1020
01-16-2012, 01:57 AM
He was in Buffalo two years and had the amazing Kelly Holcomb to work with and wasn't terrible there considering

So the 25th and 28th ranked offenses isn't terrible?

He had Drew Bledsoe year 1 and Kelly Holcomb for half a season and JP Losman for the other half, a QB the Bills drafted in the first round.

I'm not saying I wouldn't be opposed to hiring him. But what exactly makes Clements more than the Dave Duncan of the Packers?

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 09:12 AM
That was the Pioli move hiring Haley 3 years ago.

Haley was 110% from the "tree".

Mr. Laz
01-16-2012, 09:35 AM
The Chiefs were given a gift with these Saints and Packers losses. There are quality candidates abound on these staffs, and this time they don't have to wait until the freakin Super Bowl to hire them.

For once I'd like to see the Chiefs shoot for the stars and hire Clements or Lombardi. Just for goddamn once. No old fart never-will-bes like Muir. No psychopaths like Haley. No morons like Pendergast and Herm. No complacent in-house moves like Gunther. I mean daring to go outside the ****ing tree.... hell, outside the ****ing forest.... to find a quality coach well-respected around the league with a damn impressive resume.
Hired Pioli ... the #1 candidate that people wanted
Hired Haley ... considered the 'hot' guy
Hired Weis and Crennel ... both top coordinators

being part of 'the tree' is irrelevant ... these guys were considered the hot guys or the big time names. Big money was dished out.

Haley fired Gailey and ran Weis off
Haley wanted a puppet so Muir was hired(his guy, not pioli)
Haley was a big bucket of fail and was fired

seems to me that the Chiefs have been TRYING to get the good guys and it just hasn't work yet. Hiring Haley was a big mistake ... right now we could be running with a young,upcoming head coach with Weis/Crennel as coordinators. A top notch staff and a good combination of young and old.

too bad Haley was such a little bitch

*crossing fingers and hoping Crennel gets a real OC*

Mr. Laz
01-16-2012, 09:37 AM
Haley was 110% from the "tree".
completely irrelevant outside of your hatred for it

Haley was considered the hot guy coming off a super bowl win.

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 09:41 AM
completely irrelevant outside of your hatred for it

Haley was considered the hot guy coming off a super bowl win.

Ahem...I never said he wasn't.

In fact, when people have said Haley was a "no name" when he was hired, I've said the same thing you just said - Haley was one of the most sought-after assistant coaches that offseason. We hired the big name, most definitely.

Perhaps you should take the time to READ what I was responding to and not jump to your pre-determined conclusion.

Mr. Laz
01-16-2012, 09:58 AM
That was the Pioli move hiring Haley 3 years ago.

Ahem...I never said he wasn't.

In fact, when people have said Haley was a "no name" when he was hired, I've said the same thing you just said - Haley was one of the most sought-after assistant coaches that offseason. We hired the big name, most definitely.

Perhaps you should take the time to READ what I was responding to and not jump to your pre-determined conclusion.
oh, i have.

SNR was complaining that the Chiefs need to 'shoot for the stars'

jAZ said that they already HAD

you dismissed what jAZ said because Haley was 'part of the tree'

my reading comprehension is pretty good.


being part of the tree is irrelevant ... Haley was the hot name, so was Pioli

Weis and Crennel were both big name, veteran guys and quality hires.

The shitty hires like Muir were made by Todd 'psycho-boy' Haley

htismaqe
01-16-2012, 10:52 AM
oh, i have.

SNR was complaining that the Chiefs need to 'shoot for the stars'

jAZ said that they already HAD

you dismissed what jAZ said because Haley was 'part of the tree'

my reading comprehension is pretty good.


being part of the tree is irrelevant ... Haley was the hot name, so was Pioli

Weis and Crennel were both big name, veteran guys and quality hires.

The shitty hires like Muir were made by Todd 'psycho-boy' Haley

The Chiefs were given a gift with these Saints and Packers losses. There are quality candidates abound on these staffs, and this time they don't have to wait until the freakin Super Bowl to hire them.

For once I'd like to see the Chiefs shoot for the stars and hire Clements or Lombardi. Just for goddamn once. No old fart never-will-bes like Muir. No psychopaths like Haley. No morons like Pendergast and Herm. No complacent in-house moves like Gunther. I mean daring to go outside the ****ing tree.... hell, outside the ****ing forest.... to find a quality coach well-respected around the league with a damn impressive resume.

I didn't dismiss ANYTHING Jaz said. I was just reminding him that Haley was part of the tree.

You're so narrow-minded it's hilarious.

dallaschiefsfan
01-16-2012, 11:35 AM
The Chiefs were given a gift with these Saints and Packers losses. There are quality candidates abound on these staffs, and this time they don't have to wait until the freakin Super Bowl to hire them.

For once I'd like to see the Chiefs shoot for the stars and hire Clements or Lombardi. Just for goddamn once. No old fart never-will-bes like Muir. No psychopaths like Haley. No morons like Pendergast and Herm. No complacent in-house moves like Gunther. I mean daring to go outside the ****ing tree.... hell, outside the ****ing forest.... to find a quality coach well-respected around the league with a damn impressive resume.

Clements isn't exactly a spring chicken...he's been in the league awhile. If we're going young, up and coming guy...it's probably Lombardi or Ferentz.

HemiEd
01-16-2012, 12:30 PM
completely irrelevant outside of your hatred for it

Haley was considered the hot guy coming off a super bowl win.

Arizona won the SB? I thought the Steelers won that game. :D

SNR
01-16-2012, 12:32 PM
Clements isn't exactly a spring chicken...he's been in the league awhile. If we're going young, up and coming guy...it's probably Lombardi or Ferentz.Muir is in his goddamn 70s. Clements isn't exactly a youngin, but there's nothing wrong with his age.

BCD
01-16-2012, 01:03 PM
Hired Pioli ... the #1 candidate that people wanted
Hired Haley ... considered the 'hot' guy
Hired Weis and Crennel ... both top coordinators

being part of 'the tree' is irrelevant ... these guys were considered the hot guys or the big time names. Big money was dished out.

Haley fired Gailey and ran Weis off
Haley wanted a puppet so Muir was hired(his guy, not pioli)
Haley was a big bucket of fail and was fired

seems to me that the Chiefs have been TRYING to get the good guys and it just hasn't work yet. Hiring Haley was a big mistake ... right now we could be running with a young,upcoming head coach with Weis/Crennel as coordinators. A top notch staff and a good combination of young and old.

too bad Haley was such a little bitch

*crossing fingers and hoping Crennel gets a real OC*

LMAO Its so funny to watch you cry about Haley. I swear he must have fucked your boyfriend and made you watch.

BCD
01-16-2012, 01:10 PM
Muir is in his goddamn 70s. Clements isn't exactly a youngin, but there's nothing wrong with his age.

LOL Actually he's only 69.

I wouldn't mind Clements, but I would prefer someone younger.

SNR
01-16-2012, 01:12 PM
LOL Actually he's only 69.

I wouldn't mind Clements, but I would prefer someone younger.69... 70...

He's old enough to die and have people say, "It's a shame, but he was getting up there in years."

Carlota69
01-16-2012, 01:13 PM
LOL Actually he's only 69.

I wouldn't mind Clements, but I would prefer someone younger.

After that article re: Pioli and his supposed nazi ways, why would anyone want to work for him/The Chiefs? True or not true, perception is reality.

Coogs
01-16-2012, 01:16 PM
I'm surprised there is no love for Greg Robinson and Gunther Cunningham for OC. Those 2 guys have been involved with some of the highest scoring/yardage offenses in league history.

Akron's#1ChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 03:39 AM
After that article re: Pioli and his supposed nazi ways, why would anyone want to work for him/The Chiefs? True or not true, perception is reality.

Despite Pioli's supposed "gestapo" tactics, the Chiefs are one of the most talented group of young players in the league right now. They aren't the most accomplished group, but for any coach that's looking to make a name for himself this is the perfect group to prove his worth with.

The defense has been in place for a few years now, so it is pretty much running smoothly. The offense isn't scoring, but it has playmakers all over the field. If everyone comes back healthy this season, this offense will give teams fits all year long with the right OC.

NJChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 03:50 AM
Despite Pioli's supposed "gestapo" tactics, the Chiefs are one of the most talented group of young players in the league right now. They aren't the most accomplished group, but for any coach that's looking to make a name for himself this is the perfect group to prove his worth with.

The defense has been in place for a few years now, so it is pretty much running smoothly. The offense isn't scoring, but it has playmakers all over the field. If everyone comes back healthy this season, this offense will give teams fits all year long with the right OC.

If we are saying that an OC candidate will make his decision based on what he is going to work with, don't you think having Cassel is going to make them pause? If he starts next year the failure to get where the Chiefs want to go is going to build even more pressure within the organization, even with the Chiefs media and fans being so gentle.

I don't think people will necessarly stay away because of Matt, but if we are talking just about their reaction to talent, people in this league aren't foolish enough to see Matt Cassel just by his stats. They understand game tape way more than we do which means they should be atleast twice as aware of Matt's failures.

NJChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 03:53 AM
After that article re: Pioli and his supposed nazi ways, why would anyone want to work for him/The Chiefs? True or not true, perception is reality.

That is true but during an interview perception can be changed. All Pioli would have to do is convince them part of it isn't true, or perhaps admit it and say things have changed. People looking for an OC job are those trying to come up in the ranks and if there aren't many jobs open they may consider it.

If they are looking for the right job then yeah, these stories and Matt Cassel are going to concern them. I just think you have to consider that some of these people will be looking for a career jump.

Akron's#1ChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 04:02 AM
If we are saying that an OC candidate will make his decision based on what he is going to work with, don't you think having Cassel is going to make them pause? If he starts next year the failure to get where the Chiefs want to go is going to build even more pressure within the organization, even with the Chiefs media and fans being so gentle.

I don't think people will necessarly stay away because of Matt, but if we are talking just about their reaction to talent, people in this league aren't foolish enough to see Matt Cassel just by his stats. They understand game tape way more than we do which means they should be atleast twice as aware of Matt's failures.

The key here is that the understand game tape and strategy more than we do. We all see his failures, but he actually does some things very well. I'm not saying he's a great QB, but if Weis showed us anything it's that he can definitely be "coached up." P.S. I used to think Chiefs fans were, as you say, "gentle." Then I came to Chiefs Planet.

But to get away from the Cassel conundrum, if an OC comes in and has any kind of success at all, he may actually be able to use that as a bargaining chip to get Cassel out of town after a season or two, provided he continues his lack-luster play and inability to win games. He doesn't really lose too many games—protects the ball, doesn't take too many risks, etc...—but he doesn't win too many either—plays too tentatively, doesn't seem to have a deep ball, needs an above average O-line to succeed at all, etc...

NJChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 04:08 AM
The key here is that the understand game tape and strategy more than we do. We all see his failures, but he actually does some things very well. I'm not saying he's a great QB, but if Weis showed us anything it's that he can definitely be "coached up." P.S. I used to think Chiefs fans were, as you say, "gentle." Then I came to Chiefs Planet.

But to get away from the Cassel conundrum, if an OC comes in and has any kind of success at all, he may actually be able to use that as a bargaining chip to get Cassel out of town after a season or two, provided he continues his lack-luster play and inability to win games. He doesn't really lose too many games—protects the ball, doesn't take too many risks, etc...—but he doesn't win too many either—plays too tentatively, doesn't seem to have a deep ball, needs an above average O-line to succeed at all, etc...

I think in the end people looking to be OC's aren't going to turn down the offer to move up in the football world unless there is a better offer or they just really think they can get better next year. Somebody will be willing to do it.

I am one to admit what I see as a fan may not be gospel. With Matt though, its pretty evident that his major flaws aren't going away and are too much to overcome. Thats why its frustrating, becaue the only way Pioli doesn't see it is by ignoring it.

Sad to say a lot of Chiefs fans don't view Matt the way CP does per a bunch of fans that live in KC. Matt has shown under very favorable circumstances he can get a Division Title, but he also showed what he does if a real team makes an effort to stop him. If the goal is a SB, there really isn't much of a conversation to be had.

Akron's#1ChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 04:22 AM
I think in the end people looking to be OC's aren't going to turn down the offer to move up in the football world unless there is a better offer or they just really think they can get better next year. Somebody will be willing to do it.

I am one to admit what I see as a fan may not be gospel. With Matt though, its pretty evident that his major flaws aren't going away and are too much to overcome. Thats why its frustrating, becaue the only way Pioli doesn't see it is by ignoring it.

Sad to say a lot of Chiefs fans don't view Matt the way CP does per a bunch of fans that live in KC. Matt has shown under very favorable circumstances he can get a Division Title, but he also showed what he does if a real team makes an effort to stop him. If the goal is a SB, there really isn't much of a conversation to be had.

Here's a possible scenario that Chiefs fans seem to not want to consider: What if Pioli DOES see it? We all know that has no real loyalty to anyone. We as fans are constantly bringing up how he'll hang anyone out to dry or throw anyone under the bus to save his ass (i.e. Arrowhead Anxiety article, Haley's in-season firing...) Why are we so sure he's up Cassel's ass so far? Because he's said so?

Look at some of the things this guy has said about his relationship with Haley, right before firing him unceremoniously. Pioli is a save face first kind of guy. He's not gonna come out and say, "Cassel is not the answer. We're just keeping him around until we can replace him with someone that can help us win a title." Even if that's exactly what he's thinking.

He wouldn't let his staff come out and say it either. Basically, what I'm saying is that we the fans aren't going to know of any major changes until they happen. Pioli is a very smoke-and-mirrors kind of guy, so I'm not buying that he's so in love with a QB that he has to see as someone who could potentially drag him out of his job.

NJChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 04:29 AM
Here's a possible scenario that Chiefs fans seem to not want to consider: What if Pioli DOES see it? We all know that has no real loyalty to anyone. We as fans are constantly bringing up how he'll hang anyone out to dry or throw anyone under the bus to save his ass (i.e. Arrowhead Anxiety article, Haley's in-season firing...) Why are we so sure he's up Cassel's ass so far? Because he's said so?

Look at some of the things this guy has said about his relationship with Haley, right before firing him unceremoniously. Pioli is a save face first kind of guy. He's not gonna come out and say, "Cassel is not the answer. We're just keeping him around until we can replace him with someone that can help us win a title." Even if that's exactly what he's thinking.

He wouldn't let his staff come out and say it either. Basically, what I'm saying is that we the fans aren't going to know of any major changes until they happen. Pioli is a very smoke-and-mirrors kind of guy, so I'm not buying that he's so in love with a QB that he has to see as someone who could potentially drag him out of his job.

I certainly see the logic of that and do certainly hope that happens. I have said it before, this is the offseason that Pioli either saves his rep in my mind or he loses my support for good. This is the offseason, out of all others, that making a QB change is most clear.

My negativity is more from my gut feeling that its not going to change. Yes in some ways I have the attitude of a negative Chiefs fan, but in certain years I have been positive(and proven wrong eventually). I am just negative right now more from what I have seen and my gut feeling. Like I said I understand that line of thought, and this is the offseason where Pioli needs to make the right moves. We are at a huge crossroad in this organization right now.

Akron's#1ChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 04:59 AM
I certainly see the logic of that and do certainly hope that happens. I have said it before, this is the offseason that Pioli either saves his rep in my mind or he loses my support for good. This is the offseason, out of all others, that making a QB change is most clear.

My negativity is more from my gut feeling that its not going to change. Yes in some ways I have the attitude of a negative Chiefs fan, but in certain years I have been positive(and proven wrong eventually). I am just negative right now more from what I have seen and my gut feeling. Like I said I understand that line of thought, and this is the offseason where Pioli needs to make the right moves. We are at a huge crossroad in this organization right now.

I can certainly understand that. It always seems to be more of the same from this team, no matter who the coaching staff is. Run on first, run on second, pass on third, punt on fourth. Play defense, get a stop on first and second down, then give up a medium to big play on third and eventually get blown out.

Also, Trent Green is the best QB the Chiefs have had in almost 20 years. Longer if you don't count Joe Montana's ghost. There is always a rumor that the Chiefs are going to make a move for a certain guy, or that they are going to make a change at a position, or that they are going to really get production out of a young prospect, but none of these things ever seem to pan out.

I won't deny that it's been hard to be a Chiefs fan, but 2010 made it all worth it again. This team has undeniable talent and potential. I'm not going to let one ant (Cassel) spoil my picnic, no matter how much of a nuisance that ant may be.

You see, I'm a very optimistic fan.

BoneKrusher
01-17-2012, 06:37 AM
I can certainly understand that. It always seems to be more of the same from this team, no matter who the coaching staff is. Run on first, run on second, pass on third, punt on fourth. Play defense, get a stop on first and second down, then give up a medium to big play on third and eventually get blown out.

Also, Trent Green is the best QB the Chiefs have had in almost 20 years. Longer if you don't count Joe Montana's ghost. There is always a rumor that the Chiefs are going to make a move for a certain guy, or that they are going to make a change at a position, or that they are going to really get production out of a young prospect, but none of these things ever seem to pan out.

I won't deny that it's been hard to be a Chiefs fan, but 2010 made it all worth it again. This team has undeniable talent and potential. I'm not going to let one ant (Cassel) spoil my picnic, no matter how much of a nuisance that ant may be.

You see, I'm a very optimistic fan.


good post man, glad you came aboard. :thumb:

Akron's#1ChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 06:41 AM
good post man, glad you came aboard. :thumb:

Thank you my good man. I came on awhile ago, but I stopped coming around for awhile. I'm back though.

BoneKrusher
01-17-2012, 06:43 AM
Thank you my good man. I came on awhile ago, but I stopped coming around for awhile. I'm back though.

:thumb:

Danman
01-17-2012, 07:01 AM
People having intelligent football conversations on CP? 2012 really must be the end of the world.

Akron's#1ChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 07:07 AM
People having intelligent football conversations on CP? 2012 really must be the end of the world.

Ha. Is that not normal? I know there is an overwhelming amount of lolCassel and whatnot...

KCUnited
01-17-2012, 07:08 AM
I have confidence that [REC] will zoom out away from the front office drama and find us a solid coordinator.

Coogs
01-17-2012, 07:36 AM
You see, I'm a very optimistic fan.

Hang around for a couple of days, and we can cure that problem for you.

htismaqe
01-17-2012, 09:47 AM
Hang around for a couple of days, and we can cure that problem for you.

No shit.

I used to be the President of the Apologist's Club according to some here.

ROFL

booger
01-17-2012, 10:21 AM
http://www.gostanford.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hamilton_pep00.html

Keep an eye on Pep Hamilton. He was under consideration with Saban for the Bama OC job with little schottenheimer before Doug Nuiesmeir got it.

He's been a lower level guy that has worked his way up on the offensive side of the ball. O quality controll to qb's and now qb/OC at stanford. It would be a suprise move but i'ts possible. I think Hamilton coached with Crennell at the east west shrine game before he became the DC in KC, before the 2010 season. I'd hope Zorn would be around as a vet coach on O he could lean on.

Mike Sherman i could see if they would move the qb (i'd take orton over cassel anyday) and run more of a west coast mix to what they already run. I think with Orton in the last 3 games Zorn had a heavy influence on the passing attack.

Otherwise Daball as oc and probably Karl Dorrell as WR's coach when Miami get's things settled if the go the tree route.

I'd like to see Hue Jackson from what's left. Darkhorse is CFL HC Marc Trestman.

Thought of Pete Manguarian(ex Patriot) but he got the Cornell Job after being OL coach with the bucs this year.

Jeff Davidson with Zorn as qbcoach/pass game co would be what they are looking for.

It's possible they lose Gary Gibbs if Mike Zimmer get's a HC job. Zimmer's boy Adam is Gibb's assitatn at LB coach and he's a young buck they give more responsibility too and would be nice to retain and continue to groom him.

I think they could take a run at Marty's boy as OC too. Just some hunch for no good reason.

Pepper Johnson's best shot to have more responsibility would be under Romeo. I know he still will call plays but it would open up the shot Pepper could call plays down the road. That's about the only current NE coach i could see coming to KC.

Need to find a damn good OL coach out there and i have no idea who is available.

Been a few months, hope everyone is well and healthy!

booger
01-17-2012, 10:28 AM
wonder what happened to jeremy bates last year? He may be to big of a hot head to work with Casshole.

Depends on what happens in Indy but Clyde Christenson is intriging besides last year of course without Peyton. He is OC currently and would have to get out of his contract if they hire a new HC that doesn't want him. I think he has potential and the thought of a 3 WR set of Bowe Breaston and Baldwin starting with Charles as a Single back would have potential...Depending on the QB

booger
01-17-2012, 10:34 AM
Haley's protege Nick Sirianni is still an unknown if he can coach. He was being groomed to take over WR's or QB's someday.

Chocolate Hog
01-17-2012, 10:36 AM
wonder what happened to jeremy bates last year? He may be to big of a hot head to work with Casshole.

Depends on what happens in Indy but Clyde Christenson is intriging besides last year of course without Peyton. He is OC currently and would have to get out of his contract if they hire a new HC that doesn't want him. I think he has potential and the thought of a 3 WR set of Bowe Breaston and Baldwin starting with Charles as a Single back would have potential...Depending on the QB

Caldwell is coming back.

booger
01-17-2012, 10:37 AM
Caldwell is coming back.

looking that way isn't it

Chocolate Hog
01-17-2012, 10:38 AM
looking that way isn't it

Pretty comical really.

Chocolate Hog
01-17-2012, 10:39 AM
I like Chryst and Clements. RGIII with Chryst would be so sick.

booger
01-17-2012, 10:39 AM
Guess their new GM could have brought along Morningwieg

booger
01-17-2012, 10:43 AM
I like Chryst and Clements. RGIII with Chryst would be so sick.

I'd be glad with either. Want a real darkhorse from GB? Their TE coach Ben Mcadoo. In his 30's and been with McCarthy with the 49ers, Saints, and Pack. Would need Zorn and a good OL coach and would be a gamble i don't think they would take.

htismaqe
01-17-2012, 10:49 AM
I like Chryst and Clements. RGIII with Chryst would be so sick.

The more I read and think, the more I think Chryst is the guy, not only in terms of what I think they WILL do but what I think they SHOULD do.

Mr. Laz
01-17-2012, 11:23 AM
The more I read and think, the more I think Chryst is the guy, not only in terms of what I think they WILL do but what I think they SHOULD do.

this Chryst?

Updated: December 22, 2011, 1:54 PM ET
Pittsburgh hires Paul Chryst as coach
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ESPN.com news services
Wisconsin offensive coordinator Paul Chryst will be the next coach at Pittsburgh.

Bennett: Pitt Will Try, Try Again

Any program that was looking for a successful coordinator couldn't have done much better than Paul Chryst, who doesn't face the easiest of situations at Pittsburgh, Brian Bennett writes. Blog

Pittsburgh made the announcement Thursday. Chryst's hiring was widely reported Wednesday.

Pitt was left scrambling for a coach after Arizona State plucked Todd Graham Dec. 14 after his one season with the Panthers. Chryst, 46, was a candidate for Pitt's coaching vacancy last year, and was under consideration for recent openings at Illinois and Kansas.

He joined the Badgers as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach in 2005, and was previously Wisconsin's tight ends coach in 2002. He was offensive coordinator at Oregon State from 2003-04 and served as an assistant with the San Diego Chargers from 1999-2001.

Wisconsin averaged 44.6 points, fourth best in the nation, and 467 yards per game this season.

"His remarkable success at Wisconsin is well documented in the form of Big Ten championships and All-America performances," Pittsburgh athletic director Steve Pederson said in a statement Thursday. "But beyond his achievements on the football field, we believed it was important to find a leader who gets the very best from his players while also developing the kind of culture that fits the University of Pittsburgh. Paul Chryst is that leader."

Chryst altered the Badgers' offense to accommodate mobile quarterback Russell Wilson, who transferred from NC State before the season. The new offense helped Wisconsin win the Big Ten championship and earn a trip to the Rose Bowl Game Presented By Vizio to face Oregon.

Chryst will be the fourth Pitt coach in the past 13 months. After Dave Wannstedt resigned Dec. 7, 2010, Pitt hired Michael Haywood, only to fire him 16 days later when he was jailed on a domestic violence charge. Graham was hired Jan. 10.

In addition, interim coach Phil Bennett led the Panthers in last year's BBVA Compass Bowl. Keith Patterson has been interim coach since Graham left for Arizona State. The Panthers (6-6) again will play in the BBVA Compass Bowl, on Jan. 7 vs. SMU.

Chocolate Hog
01-17-2012, 11:25 AM
No that's his brother.

Mr. Laz
01-17-2012, 11:27 AM
No that's his brother.
ahhh ... thanks :thumb:

at least it's a family thing so maybe genetically he's a coaching guru :D

NJChiefsFan
01-17-2012, 05:53 PM
No that's his brother.

Geep's brother is named Paul. Makes sense.

BoneKrusher
01-17-2012, 06:06 PM
Hang around for a couple of days, and we can cure that problem for you.

LMAO