PDA

View Full Version : Religion How do real Catholics feel about the Obama attack on the church?


HonestChieffan
02-01-2012, 08:47 PM
http://www.lifenews.com/2012/01/31/bishop-obama-mandate-tells-catholics-to-hell-with-you/

AustinChief
02-01-2012, 09:27 PM
I just don't see how the administration could let this go to the Supreme Court (which is where the Church plans to take it) when 6 of the 9 Justices are Catholic AND just ruled in favor of religion over Obama (Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. E.E.O.C.)

Of course this is assuming that Obamacare makes it past the Supreme Court case scheduled for March.

La literatura
02-01-2012, 09:31 PM
I just don't see how the administration could let this go to the Supreme Court (which is where the Church plans to take it) when 6 of the 9 Justices are Catholic AND just ruled in favor of religion over Obama (Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. E.E.O.C.)

Of course this is assuming that Obamacare makes it past the Supreme Court case scheduled for March.

Yeah, that was a big case for religious groups. They were very happy with that. And I believe it was unanimous. But this would be a new element, and as I mentioned in an earlier post, I really don't see how the Church's interests are severable. These aren't really Catholic Church hospitals and schools, but Catholic sponsored and endorsed, or have a Catholic bishop on the board of directors, or sometimes have no link other than name and belief only.

It's entirely possible there's a way around it and I don't know about it, but my initial thought is this is either an all in or all out option.

HonestChieffan
02-01-2012, 10:20 PM
OSF Peoria would certainly challenge your view on Catholic Hospitals. Perhaps yor commitment to the tracings of the church is just what you feel comfortable with?

banyon
02-01-2012, 10:23 PM
Seems like a dumb policy and a political miscalculation during an election year. Sebelius made a mistake on this.

La literatura
02-01-2012, 10:25 PM
OSF Peoria would certainly challenge your view on Catholic Hospitals. Perhaps yor commitment to the tracings of the church is just what you feel comfortable with?

Doesn't really change my view. That health care system appears to be owned and operated by an order of nuns, but not by the Catholic Church, which is probably the case for a number of independent high schools and colleges.

HonestChieffan
02-01-2012, 10:29 PM
Doesn't really change my view. That health care system appears to be owned and operated by an order of nuns, but not by the Catholic Church, which is probably the case for a number of independent high schools and colleges.

So your Catholicism is only based on those parts you find comfortable.

La literatura
02-01-2012, 10:37 PM
So your Catholicism is only based on those parts you find comfortable.

I have no idea how what I've said puts into question anything about my own religious beliefs.

HonestChieffan
02-01-2012, 10:39 PM
Exactly

BucEyedPea
02-01-2012, 10:39 PM
So your Catholicism is only based on those parts you find comfortable.

They're called Cafeteria Catholics.
Not saying Jensen is but that's what you just defined.

Reaper16
02-01-2012, 10:42 PM
God forbid the Obama administration actually do the right thing for once. Want to be in the medicine game? Then don't use your religion as a crutch to hold up dangerous, damaging practices like refusing to do perform abortions or recommend contraceptives.

La literatura
02-01-2012, 10:45 PM
Exactly

My argument is about the severability of religious oriented employers. It's not about the wisdom of the mandate at all. It's not about my personal religious beliefs.

BucEyedPea
02-01-2012, 10:45 PM
Gonna have to disagree with you Reaper. It's a free country. The Catholic Church, as does any other religion, has a right to be involved in medicine. It was these churches that did not turn anyone away who needed care when they could not pay at other hospitals. This is part of their work for the poor and part of their faith. They have a right to not perform procedures that violate their religion since that is a natural right that govts cannot infringe. Frankly we need more of such hospitals instead of govt mandates which created a corporate system.

AustinChief
02-01-2012, 10:47 PM
God forbid the Obama administration actually do the right thing for once. Want to be in the medicine game? Then don't use your religion as a crutch to hold up dangerous, damaging practices like refusing to do perform abortions or recommend contraceptives.

It's not about hospitals not performing abortions. It's about a RELIGIOUS EMPLOYER not wanting to be forced to pay for those things. There is ZERO chance that the administration wins this battle.

ClevelandBronco
02-01-2012, 11:12 PM
I'll tell you this much: When I finally wear the shoes of the fisherman all this saving-the-lives-of-nonbelievers shit is going to come to a screeching halt.

HonestChieffan
02-01-2012, 11:13 PM
They're called Cafeteria Catholics.
Not saying Jensen is but that's what you just defined.

Interesting

Bump
02-01-2012, 11:21 PM
the Catholic church should just all be burned down anyways, why should anyone take what they say or think seriously?

La literatura
02-01-2012, 11:26 PM
the Catholic church should just all be burned down anyways, why should anyone take what they say or think seriously?

As stupid as this post is, there's almost something here to think about: the Catholic-oriented upheaval of the mandate is largely from the hierarchy (the Bishops) and prominent Catholic organizations and groups. There's some real internal dialogue about whether self-identifying lay Catholics actually care about what the hierarchy says about contraception issues.

T-post Tom
02-01-2012, 11:33 PM
the Catholic church should just all be burned down anyways, why should anyone take what they say or think seriously?


:facepalm:

Taco John
02-01-2012, 11:37 PM
God forbid the Obama administration actually do the right thing for once. Want to be in the medicine game? Then don't use your religion as a crutch to hold up dangerous, damaging practices like refusing to do perform abortions or recommend contraceptives.

I'm amused that you see this as a reasonable position.

Taco John
02-01-2012, 11:40 PM
the Catholic church should just all be burned down anyways, why should anyone take what they say or think seriously?

Is this a Reaper dupe account or something?

Chocolate Hog
02-01-2012, 11:42 PM
God forbid the Obama administration actually do the right thing for once. Want to be in the medicine game? Then don't use your religion as a crutch to hold up dangerous, damaging practices like refusing to do perform abortions or recommend contraceptives.

What gives the government the right to be in the medicine business or any business for that matter? The government isn't suppose to be a business.

AustinChief
02-01-2012, 11:44 PM
What gives the government the right to be in the medicine business or any business for that matter? The government isn't suppose to be a business.

The government is supposed to be EVERYTHING! Didn't you know that comrade?

stevieray
02-02-2012, 12:51 AM
God forbid the Obama administration actually do the right thing for once. Want to be in the medicine game? Then don't use your religion as a crutch to hold up dangerous, damaging practices like refusing to do perform abortions or recommend contraceptives.

what a complete and total fail.

ya, God forbid holding up abortions...:spock:...maybe we could post pics of aborted children and see what defines dangerous and damging practices.

patteeu
02-02-2012, 12:55 AM
I'll tell you this much: When I finally wear the shoes of the fisherman all this saving-the-lives-of-nonbelievers shit is going to come to a screeching halt.

LMAO ... uh oh :bolt:

BucEyedPea
02-02-2012, 01:18 AM
To answer your question HCf,
I have heard from a friend of my family who is a devout Catholic. However, I received an email that was forwarded from one of his Catholic groups the other day after not hearing from him in quite a while. Some, at least, are taking this very seriously. They don't like it—at ALL.

Pioli Zombie
02-02-2012, 05:43 AM
Every sperm is sacred

vailpass
02-02-2012, 07:56 AM
God forbid the Obama administration actually do the right thing for once. Want to be in the medicine game? Then don't use your religion as a crutch to hold up dangerous, damaging practices like refusing to do perform abortions or recommend contraceptives.

:spock:

vailpass
02-02-2012, 07:58 AM
Every sperm is sacred

They's discriminatin' aginst da brotha spermz cuz dey say dey feelz threatened, amirite?

The_Doctor10
02-02-2012, 02:58 PM
It's not about hospitals not performing abortions. It's about a RELIGIOUS EMPLOYER not wanting to be forced to pay for those things. There is ZERO chance that the administration wins this battle.

Then don't pass yourself off as a hospital. If you want to be a hospital and make all the money that goes along with that, perform all the services one might reasonably expect to find at a hospital. Or, don't charge for your services.

orange
02-02-2012, 03:02 PM
Every time I see another of these "Catholics Unite" threads from HCF, I can't help but flashback to the Great Thanksgiving TSA Boycott of 2010.

Revolution is in the air, no doubt.

BucEyedPea
02-02-2012, 03:03 PM
Then don't pass yourself off as a hospital. If you want to be a hospital and make all the money that goes along with that, perform all the services one might reasonably expect to find at a hospital. Or, don't charge for your services.

Pass themselves off as....? LOL. They are exactly what they say they are religious-based non-profit hospitals.

May I ask what part of the term "non-profit" you don't understand?


Free country = free markets ——> more choices with different suppliers= those wanting abortions and contraceptives can find the service elsewhere. Pretty simple.

Basically what you saying is similar to telling a niche market supplier they must sell goods or services that have broad based appeal but using govt force to do it. That's called fascism.

Leave the Catholics alone!

BucEyedPea
02-02-2012, 03:07 PM
Every time I see another of these "Catholics Unite" threads from HCF, I can't help but flashback to the Great Thanksgiving TSA Boycott of 2010.

Revolution is in the air, no doubt.

irrelevant

orange
02-02-2012, 03:13 PM
irrelevant

Don't assume your own incapability to apply analogy is widespread. I'd bet 98.2% of all CPers get exactly what I mean.

p.s. "Don't Tread On My Junk!"

patteeu
02-02-2012, 03:15 PM
Then don't pass yourself off as a hospital. If you want to be a hospital and make all the money that goes along with that, perform all the services one might reasonably expect to find at a hospital. Or, don't charge for your services.

This isn't about performing services, but if it was, your position is silly. There are all kinds of hospitals that don't provide every service available. Most hospitals don't provide heart transplant services. Some don't provide surgical services at all.

But again, this isn't about providing services. This is about the level of health care coverage that these institutions are offering their employees. It's ridiculous that our federal government is requiring health care plans to cover contraception and abortion. If we're going to set a minimum level of coverage, it ought to be a minimum level of coverage.

BucEyedPea
02-02-2012, 03:18 PM
Don't assume your own incapability to apply analogy is widespread. I'd bet 98.2% of all CPers get exactly what I mean.

p.s. "Don't Tread On My Junk!"
Other words for it is hijacking and snide snark.