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View Full Version : Any Legit ILB's to consider with our first pick?


Dante84
02-09-2012, 12:22 AM
Just curious if there's a guy, or guys, we could realistically consider at 11/12.

How I see our needs, in order:
-QB
-RT
-NT
-ILB
-RB
- value depth in order (Safety, T, TE, CB)

QB- Well, we are pretty much fucked at QB unless we do something magical, in which case this prognosticating doesn't mean shit. Outside of the top two, there's a huge drop off.

RT - in the first would royally piss me off. A backup LT would also piss me off here.

NT - As mentioned in other threads, there's not really a NT worth that pick.

ILB- Inside Linebacker makes sense - if there's a good enough player.

RB - Trent Richardson, and only Trent Richardson if we use this spot on a RB.

I really hope we don't draft for depth with our first pick. If we lose Bowe/Carr, then we've got other options to consider with the pick.



So, is there a quality, starting caliber ILB to target here, assuming we stand still?

PGM
02-09-2012, 08:08 AM
We already have an All Pro and a young ascending player that is only getting better at the spot, so I'll pass on this idea.

suds79
02-09-2012, 08:57 AM
Have to weigh positional value.

ILB in the 3-4 is just about the least important defensive position on the field. So probably not an option at 11.

You do that then you might as well be open to the idea of drafting Centers & Fullbacks with #1s. That's the level it's on.

SNR
02-09-2012, 09:52 AM
Many people claim Luke Kuechly could be one of the only reasonable picks value-wise that we could take at 11/12.

I am not of this persuation, but it does exist.

Detoxing
02-09-2012, 11:07 AM
Have to weigh positional value.

ILB in the 3-4 is just about the least important defensive position on the field. So probably not an option at 11.

You do that then you might as well be open to the idea of drafting Centers & Fullbacks with #1s. That's the level it's on.

You have to combine positional value with BPA at a position of need.

It can't be that black and white.

If an ILB happens to rate out as the BPA, and if there is a need, and the talent lvl between he and the next group of guys is that big, then you have to pick him.

I doubt we'll take an ILB @ 11/12 just because I don't think the need is that DIRE, however there is a need there.

We're just one DJ injury away from having one of the worst 34 ILB groups in the league.

Belcher is solid but average, and there is nothing behind him and DJ.

If the Chiefs elected to take the top ILB there, I would welcome the pick.

whoman69
02-09-2012, 01:40 PM
In the OP you admit that ILB is not our top priority. I would put it even lower than that if Belcher is resigned. If we decide not to sign Belcher because we can upgrade the position, Kuechly might be best available athlete as well. The only other choice would be Hightower who is probably a reach this high.

Detoxing
02-09-2012, 01:52 PM
In the OP you admit that ILB is not our top priority. I would put it even lower than that if Belcher is resigned. If we decide not to sign Belcher because we can upgrade the position, Kuechly might be best available athlete as well. The only other choice would be Hightower who is probably a reach this high.

It'd be pretty dumb to not resign Belcher considering he's only a RFA. Even if they want to replace him, he'd be a good cheap depth option.

whoman69
02-09-2012, 07:20 PM
It'd be pretty dumb to not resign Belcher considering he's only a RFA. Even if they want to replace him, he'd be a good cheap depth option.

They've already signed Siler if its depth you are looking at.

Dante84
02-09-2012, 07:29 PM
They've already signed Siler if its depth you are looking at.

oh yes! Forgot about the wild card.... hope he comes back from his injury alright.

ArrowheadMagic
02-09-2012, 07:51 PM
Might as well pick DeCastro. Once in a lifetime prospect. You guys drool over the NT from Washington... in the 2nd.... watch Stanford V Washington and watch your NT of the future get his shit pushed in for a full 60 mintues.

ForeverChiefs58
02-09-2012, 08:23 PM
Just curious if there's a guy, or guys, we could realistically consider at 11/12.

How I see our needs, in order:
-QB
-RT
-NT
-ILB
-RB
- value depth in order (Safety, T, TE, CB)

QB- Well, we are pretty much fucked at QB unless we do something magical, in which case this prognosticating doesn't mean shit. Outside of the top two, there's a huge drop off.

RT - in the first would royally piss me off. A backup LT would also piss me off here.

NT - As mentioned in other threads, there's not really a NT worth that pick.

ILB- Inside Linebacker makes sense - if there's a good enough player.

RB - Trent Richardson, and only Trent Richardson if we use this spot on a RB.

I really hope we don't draft for depth with our first pick. If we lose Bowe/Carr, then we've got other options to consider with the pick.



So, is there a quality, starting caliber ILB to target here, assuming we stand still?

Nice post, I agree 100%.

We'll see, but I think Luke Kuechly, ILB/Boston College would be a great pick in the first and Dontari Poe, NT/Memphis or Alameda Ta'amu, NT/Washington in the second would be awesome for our defense. Kuechly is a beast who seems like he is in on every single tackle. He had a game with 20 freaking tackles and FF...in one game. We would have a very dominate defense.

Trent Richardson in the first and Coby Fleener, TE/Stanford in the second could be good for an offense in some need, and able to helpout on 3rd down.
With Tony M coming back there will probably always be questions if he can stay healthy, plus no depth. This gives us a two headed monster at RB and TE to go along with Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin. Throw in McCluster and try and hold back the chills.

ForeverChiefs58
02-09-2012, 08:31 PM
Might as well pick DeCastro. Once in a lifetime prospect. You guys drool over the NT from Washington... in the 2nd.... watch Stanford V Washington and watch your NT of the future get his shit pushed in for a full 60 mintues.

DeCastro is a stud. I also like Peter Konz, C/Wisconsin. Trade down, pick DeCastro in the first and Peter Konz in the 2nd.

You never know, Jonathan Martin *maybe* just might still there at 11. That would be a good pickup as well.

ArrowheadMagic
02-09-2012, 09:08 PM
DeCastro is a stud. I also like Peter Konz, C/Wisconsin. Trade down, pick DeCastro in the first and Peter Konz in the 2nd.

You never know, Jonathan Martin *maybe* just might still there at 11. That would be a good pickup as well.

Martin would equal a trade partner. Trade down and get pics. I am not sold on RGIII let alone the guys underneath him. Richardson being there when we pick= lottery. Be nice to have him, but he isnt the once in a lifetime prospect DeCastro is.


Shitty time to need a QB. We will be too healthy next year to be able to trade up.

Bump
02-09-2012, 09:19 PM
Trent Richardson would be ok with me, not ideal, but if he's the BPA then do it I guess. What if Charles can't rebound, the guy is a big time playmaker and if Charles can come back 100%, WOW watch out.

ILB wouldn't be bad either, a true stud next to DJ, Belcher is solid but an upgrade could be useful.

CB if we can't resign Carr, if there is any worth the pick, i don't really know.

But mostly, I want to trade up for RG3

ArrowheadMagic
02-09-2012, 09:28 PM
Trent Richardson would be ok with me, not ideal, but if he's the BPA then do it I guess. What if Charles can't rebound, the guy is a big time playmaker and if Charles can come back 100%, WOW watch out.

ILB wouldn't be bad either, a true stud next to DJ, Belcher is solid but an upgrade could be useful.

CB if we can't resign Carr, if there is any worth the pick, i don't really know.

But mostly, I want to trade up for RG3


Cleveland has the market on trading up. No way we dont resign Carr... NE drafted CB after CB to find a Carr. No way PIOLI lets one get away.

Detoxing
02-10-2012, 09:33 AM
They've already signed Siler if its depth you are looking at.

Siler?

Siler is a situational run stopper at best coming off injury. He's not what i'd call good depth. He wasn't even good depth in San Diego.

milkman
02-11-2012, 08:46 PM
Nice post, I agree 100%.

We'll see, but I think Luke Kuechly, ILB/Boston College would be a great pick in the first and Dontari Poe, NT/Memphis or Alameda Ta'amu, NT/Washington in the second would be awesome for our defense. Kuechly is a beast who seems like he is in on every single tackle. He had a game with 20 freaking tackles and FF...in one game. We would have a very dominate defense.

Trent Richardson in the first and Coby Fleener, TE/Stanford in the second could be good for an offense in some need, and able to helpout on 3rd down.
With Tony M coming back there will probably always be questions if he can stay healthy, plus no depth. This gives us a two headed monster at RB and TE to go along with Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin. Throw in McCluster and try and hold back the chills.

I'll be damned.

I think you might have hit on the one thing that Matt Cassel could accomplish as the QB of the KC Chiefs.

Detoxing
02-15-2012, 09:54 AM
Looks like someone may be in for a slide....

According to SI.com's Tony Pauline, Arizona State ILB Vontaze Burfict was "soft and out of shape" when he reported to pre-Combine training in January, and is now dealing with a hamstring injury.
Pauline reports that NFL teams' biggest concern with Burfict is work ethic, and he apparently hasn't solved the issue ahead of the draft. Per Pauline, Burfict is unable to complete 15 reps on the 225-pound bench press with one week left before the Combine. After a poor junior season at Arizona State, Burfict's draft stock could be headed for free fall if he performs poorly in Indy.

Detoxing
02-15-2012, 04:34 PM
After watching "a bunch of tape" on Arizona State ILB Vontaze Burfict recently, NFL Network's Mike Mayock believes Burfict is not worth a first-round pick in April's draft.
"I'm not a fan at all," said Mayock. "I just watched a bunch of his tape the other day. I came away unimpressed." Mayock said he tried to filter out Burfict's off- and on-field behavioral issues and graded him strictly off game tape. "His instincts aren't good," Mayock observed. "He gets enveloped by bigger bodies and he runs around blocks. I don't see first round at all."

Viper400
02-17-2012, 07:44 AM
Dont'a Hightower is the prototypickal 3-4 ILB. Has the size, run stopping and coverage ability. Has experience in the system already, coming for 'Bama.

DeCastro is my pick at 11-12. I wouldn't be upset to trade down and pick Hightower though.

ForeverChiefs58
02-17-2012, 08:22 AM
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ForeverChiefs58
02-17-2012, 08:29 AM
Nice resume.

Luke Kuechly

Named preseason 2011 All-America and All-ACC first team by Phil Steele...2011 Playboy Preseason All-America selection...named preseason ACC Defensive Player of the Year by Blue Ribbon Yearbooks...had a 33-game double-digit tackle streak, the longest streak of its kind in FBS college football between 2009 and 2011.

2011 Season
Three-time ACC Linebacker of Week (9/6/11, 9/19/11, 11/13/11) ... made nine stops (6 solo), including one tackle for loss, in addition to breaking up one pass and returning one interception 45 yards for a touchdown at Miami...notched a game-high 14 stops (7 solo), including one tackle for loss, and broke up one pass at Notre Dame ... posted a team-high 18 tackles (9 solo), including 1.5 tackles for loss, against NC State ... served up a game-best 20 tackles (8 solo) versus Florida State...led all players with 12 tackles (7 solo), recording a tackle for a loss of six, returning an interception three yards and breaking up one pass at Maryland...made a team-high 19 tackles (3 solo) and hurried the quarterback twice against Virginia Tech ... Tallied a team best 16 tackles at Clemson (11 solo), including 2.0 for a loss ...tallied a team best 14 tackles (8 solo), including 2.0 tackles for loss ... recorded 11 tackles against UMass, becoming the fifth Eagle and 32nd player from the ACC to register 400 career tackles ... tallied a career-high 23 tackles (17 solo) against Duke ... posted a team-high 17 tackles (12 solo) at Central Florida, including 0.5 tackles for loss (1 yard) ... led BC with 18 tackles (9 solo) against Northwestern, including 1.5 tackles for loss (2 yards), and returned one interception for 23 yards.

xztop12
02-18-2012, 07:51 PM
Dont'a Hightower is the prototypickal 3-4 ILB. Has the size, run stopping and coverage ability. Has experience in the system already, coming for 'Bama.

DeCastro is my pick at 11-12. I wouldn't be upset to trade down and pick Hightower though.

hightower is an enigma to me. everytime i watch him on tape he looks slow, slow to react to plays, poor lateral movement, and washed out of plays easily... but he puts up numbers, and alabamas D does too, and he's front and center.

The thing about him is that he's the biggest ILB i know of aside from Ray Lewis, maybe that kind of thing jsut wears on the offense after a while... or he's sealing blocks in such a way that it goes unnoticed to me watching tape

ArrowheadMagic
02-18-2012, 08:38 PM
hightower is an enigma to me. everytime i watch him on tape he looks slow, slow to react to plays, poor lateral movement, and washed out of plays easily... but he puts up numbers, and alabamas D does too, and he's front and center.

The thing about him is that he's the biggest ILB i know of aside from Ray Lewis, maybe that kind of thing jsut wears on the offense after a while... or he's sealing blocks in such a way that it goes unnoticed to me watching tape

He's now 2 yrs removed from a knee injury. He looked much quicker this year over last. While he is more talented than Belcher, he is still a 2 down LB. A true thumper in the run game.

Outside of QB, and assuming Bowe and Carr are resigned. ILB is less of a need at this point than Interior Oline or RT. None of the ILB prospects will rank higher than DeCastro, and he fits a need. Either take a G really high or trade down.

Bewbies
02-18-2012, 11:29 PM
He's now 2 yrs removed from a knee injury. He looked much quicker this year over last. While he is more talented than Belcher, he is still a 2 down LB. A true thumper in the run game.

Outside of QB, and assuming Bowe and Carr are resigned. ILB is less of a need at this point than Interior Oline or RT. None of the ILB prospects will rank higher than DeCastro, and he fits a need. Either take a G really high or trade down.

We get it, you want to take DeCastro.

ArrowheadMagic
02-19-2012, 11:43 AM
We get it, you want to take DeCastro.

Actually, I'd rather take BPA. Whomever that is.

whoman69
02-19-2012, 03:32 PM
With Belcher still unsigned, does anyone else think this is where the Chiefs are heading?

jd1020
02-19-2012, 03:42 PM
With Belcher still unsigned, does anyone else think this is where the Chiefs are heading?

No. Belcher is going to get tendered.

saphojunkie
02-28-2012, 01:12 PM
Actually, I'd rather take BPA. Whomever that is.

The problem with BPA is that people pretend this is somehow objective, like there is a quantifiable rating that is unanimously used. There isn't. You might say Trent Richardson is the best player available. best how? Talented? or impact on the game? Because I would put a right tackle above a running back every day of the week for impact on the game, and I don't mean maybe. I'd rather have a mediocre running back that doesn't get touched until he's four yards downfield than a terrific running back that gets hit at the line of scrimmage. But that's just me, and I'm 100% positive others will think I'm a moron for saying so. I'm not saying I'm right, just that BPA doesn't solve any debate. It's purely subjective.

Speaking of subjective...it's "whoever" :evil:

Also, to add to thread's original intent, Luke Kuechly has been a guy that everyone celebrated for his "instincts" and not athleticism. (aka he's white) with his fantastic 40 time, people are realizing that part of his instincts is that he's actually fast.

Still, I'd rather keep Belcher for a year, let him and Siler duke it out for the starting job, and try and get Te'o next year. I've wanted the Chiefs to draft Te'o since he came out of high school, and I'm not wavering on it. He's the perfect ILB. Period.

milkman
02-29-2012, 11:45 AM
The problem with BPA is that people pretend this is somehow objective, like there is a quantifiable rating that is unanimously used. There isn't. You might say Trent Richardson is the best player available. best how? Talented? or impact on the game? Because I would put a right tackle above a running back every day of the week for impact on the game, and I don't mean maybe. I'd rather have a mediocre running back that doesn't get touched until he's four yards downfield than a terrific running back that gets hit at the line of scrimmage. But that's just me, and I'm 100% positive others will think I'm a moron for saying so. I'm not saying I'm right, just that BPA doesn't solve any debate. It's purely subjective.

Speaking of subjective...it's "whoever" :evil:

Also, to add to thread's original intent, Luke Kuechly has been a guy that everyone celebrated for his "instincts" and not athleticism. (aka he's white) with his fantastic 40 time, people are realizing that part of his instincts is that he's actually fast.

Still, I'd rather keep Belcher for a year, let him and Siler duke it out for the starting job, and try and get Te'o next year. I've wanted the Chiefs to draft Te'o since he came out of high school, and I'm not wavering on it. He's the perfect ILB. Period.

The problem with your thinking is that a great RB can be a game changer, even when he doesn't have the a great, even good. O-Line in front of him.

It's no coincidence that, even while the O-Line for the Chiefs last year was better than the year before overall, the Chiefs offense struggled far more without Charles.

The thought that a great RT can have a bigger impact than a great RB is simply misguided.

saphojunkie
02-29-2012, 01:44 PM
The problem with your thinking is that a great RB can be a game changer, even when he doesn't have the a great, even good. O-Line in front of him.

It's no coincidence that, even while the O-Line for the Chiefs last year was better than the year before overall, the Chiefs offense struggled far more without Charles.

The thought that a great RT can have a bigger impact than a great RB is simply misguided.

I just disagree. Trent Richardson would get 20 touches a game? Additionally, he might be in on 10 passing plays.

30 plays a game.

The chiefs this year averaged 64.9 offensive plays per game. So, that's less than half of the offensive plays.

Meanwhile, the right tackle was in on 100% of all offensive plays. Every run, he has to block. Every pass, he has to block.

Add to that the average career length of a running back vs an offensive lineman, and I think the values between the two positions separate even further.

It's just a point of view, and my only reason for stating it is to illustrate to problems with claiming a "best player available" strategy. There is no set criteria for what makes a player at one position "better" than a player at another position. It always, always, always comes down to value.

jd1020
02-29-2012, 02:07 PM
You think Richardson is going to get 480 touches a year?

You've lost your mind.

O.city
02-29-2012, 02:21 PM
Who is the best RT in the league right now?

jd1020
02-29-2012, 02:27 PM
Who is the best RT in the league right now?

Clabo or Bulaga.

O.city
02-29-2012, 02:28 PM
Wasn't Clabo available in free agency last year?

jd1020
02-29-2012, 02:32 PM
Yes, but he was restricted, I believe, and the Falcons gave him a first round tender.

Nevermind. I was looking at the wrong years. He was UFA.

O.city
02-29-2012, 02:34 PM
I'm not sure I agree that a RT is more important that a RB, but I guess I could understand it.

jd1020
02-29-2012, 02:36 PM
I'll take OL over RB any day of the week, assuming equal talent.

O.city
02-29-2012, 02:40 PM
I do think that with the pass rushers teams are starting to develop and the number each team is starting to keep, you need a good right tackle. I don't think you need a great one, but a solid one.


That being said, I think the talent level of say Richardson at rb is more than what some of the tackles would be at RT. But it would likely be close, so I see the justification.

milkman
02-29-2012, 06:10 PM
I just disagree. Trent Richardson would get 20 touches a game? Additionally, he might be in on 10 passing plays.

30 plays a game.

The chiefs this year averaged 64.9 offensive plays per game. So, that's less than half of the offensive plays.

Meanwhile, the right tackle was in on 100% of all offensive plays. Every run, he has to block. Every pass, he has to block.

Add to that the average career length of a running back vs an offensive lineman, and I think the values between the two positions separate even further.

It's just a point of view, and my only reason for stating it is to illustrate to problems with claiming a "best player available" strategy. There is no set criteria for what makes a player at one position "better" than a player at another position. It always, always, always comes down to value.

I believe that the guys that are picked in the top 10 of the draft should be difference maker playmakers.

A RB of Richardson's talent is that kind of player, and would have far more impact on a team's fortunes than a RT.

LT is a different animal, so if it was a choice between a Joe Thomas or a Trent Richardson, I'd go Thomas.

But if we're talking a choice between a top 10 talent type RB like Richardson and Riley Reif, I'm taking Richardson and never looking back.

Jamaal Charles mean's 7 points per game to the Cheifs offense.
Richardson could, should have that same type of impact, and there's no way in hell a RT does.

I'll take OL over RB any day of the week, assuming equal talent.

Yeah, David DeCastro or Riley Reif vs. Trent Richardson.

No way in hell I;m taking the OL.

milkman
02-29-2012, 06:12 PM
I do think that with the pass rushers teams are starting to develop and the number each team is starting to keep, you need a good right tackle. I don't think you need a great one, but a solid one.


That being said, I think the talent level of say Richardson at rb is more than what some of the tackles would be at RT. But it would likely be close, so I see the justification.

You want to minimize a pass rush?

Stay out of 2nd and 3rd and long situations.

whoman69
02-29-2012, 07:15 PM
You want to minimize a pass rush?

Stay out of 2nd and 3rd and long situations.

With Matt Cassel who could be 2 for 2 on a drive and still be looking at a 3rd and 8?

milkman
02-29-2012, 07:19 PM
With Matt Cassel who could be 2 for 2 on a drive and still be looking at a 3rd and 8?

Wit Jammal Charles and a good to great complemetary back carrying the rock.

prhom
02-29-2012, 08:01 PM
With Matt Cassel who could be 2 for 2 on a drive and still be looking at a 3rd and 8?

To be fair, we were at one point, the best in the league at converting 3rd and really long. I remember thinking that was a pretty dubious honor because it meant we were moving backwards on the first two downs.

Saccopoo
03-01-2012, 03:55 AM
Jamaal Charles mean's 7 points per game to the Cheifs offense.
Richardson could, should have that same type of impact, and there's no way in hell a RT does.

Sure it does.

All day long.

When Tait went to the Bears, what happened?

Welbourne. (Still with Roaf and Shields.)

Turley.

Whatever piece of shit they put out there...

We got our QB's killed. Regardless if they were bad or good, the got killed because of really shitty Right Tackle play.

It isn't the '70's and 80's anymore. The RT and LT are so close in terms of skill set that teams are eagerly drafting guys who can fill both positions.

Oher, Bulaga, Solder, etc.

Defenses are switching off the dominant pass rusher, stunting, bringing corners/nickles of the edge, etc.

A team better have a guy who is capable of playing either side.

milkman
03-03-2012, 08:47 PM
Sure it does.

All day long.

When Tait went to the Bears, what happened?

Welbourne. (Still with Roaf and Shields.)

Turley.

Whatever piece of shit they put out there...

We got our QB's killed. Regardless if they were bad or good, the got killed because of really shitty Right Tackle play.

It isn't the '70's and 80's anymore. The RT and LT are so close in terms of skill set that teams are eagerly drafting guys who can fill both positions.

Oher, Bulaga, Solder, etc.

Defenses are switching off the dominant pass rusher, stunting, bringing corners/nickles of the edge, etc.

A team better have a guy who is capable of playing either side.

The Bears in '04, before Tait, scored 231 points.
In '05, with Tait, they scored 260.

That's fewer that 2 points per game.

7 points>2 points, unless something has changed.