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View Full Version : Pioli, here's some draft clues...


BigChiefFan
02-11-2012, 02:14 PM
Here's how I would like to see the Chiefs approach the draft, without seeing what we do in free agency.

1st round-NT Dontari Poe

Trade down and take the best NT prospect in the draft. Poe is an incredible athlete for his size and he's light on his feet. The Chiefs finally get their guy who commands the double team and he can still push the pocket. Incredible burst of speed for a big man and strong as an ox. The anchor on defense for years to come is the Chiefs first selection.

2nd Round-WR Alshon Jeffery

South Carolina's record-setter knows how to play the game. He has it all, size, speed, and great hands. He's strong at the point of attack and a good route runner. The Chiefs take a page out of the Giants book on success and add another weapon to an abyssmal offense. Tremendous upside to be dominant. Too much talent to pass on and might be Cassel's final nail in his coffin for not producing with all the weapons.

3rd Round-OT Bobby Massie

The Chiefs finally get their RT of the future and it's worth the wait. Massie is an impressive player who knows how to protect the QB and open lanes. The road grader should be able to step in at RT from day one. Instant upgrade to the O-Line.

4th Round-HB Ronnie Hillman

Hillman is the HB that broke Marshall Faulk's records at San Diego State and that should give you a little insight into this player and his abilities. As a freshmen, he rushed for over 1500 yards and then in his sophmore year he rushed for over 1700 yards. Didn't get near the credit he deserved. Here's the gem, that fell through the cracks. Not a big back, but can deliver an impact for those trying to tackle him. Not afraid to run in between the tackles. Has potential to be a starter.

5th Round-CB Casey Hayward

Started 24 games at CB for Vanderbilt and played very well.
He ranked third in the NCAA for passes defended last year and first overall in the SEC. Had 6 picks last year and 59 tackles. Not the biggest or fastest, but a very solid corner, who should make a contribution on day one.

6th Round- OG Ryan Miller

35 starts in college. Has size and strength and an attitude to knock his guy out of the way. He's an incredible run blocker and knows how to clear a path. He's also a brick wall on the bull rush and re-routes players path to the QB. Strong work ethic. Miller gives us some much needed depth, with upside potential.

7th Round- DE Mike Daniels

He had limited starts and is listed as DT, but at 280 lbs, He's a good candidate for a 3-4 end. He's quick and a high-motor guy. He played DT for Iowa, but he can get after the QB. He amassed 14.5 sacks with only 21 starts. Much needed depth for Dorsey's probable departure.




Thoughts?

jd1020
02-11-2012, 02:20 PM
I doubt Jeffery makes it to our 2nd.

There are better compliments to Charles out there than Hillman in the 4th.

And since you are ignoring FA, how come you are not addressing depth at S, TE, and ILB instead of G and DE?

BigChiefFan
02-11-2012, 02:26 PM
The draft isn't always for now. I went with best players and they still upgrade the roster.

DJ's left nut
02-11-2012, 02:28 PM
Gonna be honest - I hate your draft.

BigChiefFan
02-11-2012, 02:30 PM
I doubt Jeffery makes it to our 2nd.

There are better compliments to Charles out there than Hillman in the 4th.

And since you are ignoring FA, how come you are not addressing depth at S, TE, and ILB instead of G and DE?Because I don't like any of those players at those positions later in the draft. You don't draft a player just to fill a hole. You draft for the best players.

BigChiefFan
02-11-2012, 02:31 PM
Gonna be honest - I hate your draft.You don't like much in the first place. :evil:

jd1020
02-11-2012, 02:31 PM
Because I don't like any of those players at those positions later in the draft. You don't draft a player just to fill a hole. You draft for the best players.

:hmmm:

So you'd rather draft players who are going to be cock blocked by current players on the roster and make themselves useless?

And who is saying every single person you drafted is the BPA?

O.city
02-11-2012, 02:39 PM
I don't think Poe will be anything at NT, he's way too tall.

This draft is crap.

BigChiefFan
02-11-2012, 02:41 PM
:hmmm:

So you'd rather draft players who are going to be cock blocked by current players on the roster and make themselves useless?

And who is saying every single person you drafted is the BPA?Who's going to be cock-blocked? Seriously?

We don't even have a 4th corner on our team.

Who's this magical depth on the O-line that we must keep?

Who's the 4th WR that we can't part with?

The second/third HB?

BigChiefFan
02-11-2012, 02:45 PM
I don't think Poe will be anything at NT, he's way too tall.

This draft is crap.

Gee, thanks. :rolleyes:

I've heard the same shit for many of years and then I go back and see how wrong the other douche's were, so by all means...

jd1020
02-11-2012, 02:52 PM
Who's going to be cock-blocked? Seriously?

We don't even have a 4th corner on our team. Flowers, Carr, Arenas, Washington, Brown

Who's this magical depth on the O-line that we must keep? Lilja is here for another year and there are 2 really good G's that are likely going to hit FA. Which, if signed, would make Lilja the depth.

Who's the 4th WR that we can't part with? Why are you drafting a WR, who's not even going to be available, in the second to be the ****ing 4th WR?

The second/third HB? I've already said Hillman is a shit pick.

Then you've got some 7th round DE who'd probably be designated to the ****ing practice squad.

jd1020
02-11-2012, 02:52 PM
I don't think Poe will be anything at NT, he's way too tall.

Should probably stop cheerleading for Soliai then. He's 6'4. So is Ngata.

O.city
02-11-2012, 02:56 PM
Difference is we have seen Soliai physically dominate at that spot with his height. Poe played at Memphis and didn't physically dominate.

He might be able to play that spot, but an ideal NT is about 61 or 6 2, I think.

jd1020
02-11-2012, 03:02 PM
Difference is we have seen Soliai physically dominate at that spot with his height. Poe played at Memphis and didn't physically dominate.

He might be able to play that spot, but an ideal NT is about 61 or 6 2, I think.

I don't put much stock into this "ideal size" bullshit. If you're good, you're good. If you're not, you're not.

whoman69
02-11-2012, 03:12 PM
Because I don't like any of those players at those positions later in the draft. You don't draft a player just to fill a hole. You draft for the best players.

There has to be a mix of the two. Doesn't make sense to draft players that don't fit into your team even if they are the best available athlete. You can't just pick best athlete if it leaves holes on your team. Realistically you have to draft players when you expect them to be drafted by talent. CP never understood that. He always drafted based on ceiling and took those players two rounds before they should have been off the board. I don't think a 7th round DE is going to be able to send Dorsey packing. I don't think we need to pick a 2nd round player to be our 4th WR. I don't think Massie lasts until round three.

Pasta Giant Meatball
02-11-2012, 03:12 PM
I don't put much stock into this "ideal size" bullshit. If you're good, you're good. If you're not, you're not.

Exactly

DJ's left nut
02-12-2012, 12:09 PM
Exactly

Sure - but then read Poe scouting report.

He gets knocked a lot for playing with his pads too high and losing leverage.

Poe presents a scary combination of size and questionable technique that I just don't like when taking a player that high, especially at NT, a position known for guys that get lazy and are otherwise slow to learn.

And again, I think he has a 1st round grade because of his ability to hit gaps and create some trouble in the backfield. He's not going to be asked to do that here. So ultimately, we're giving up a 1st round pick on the guy because of a talent that we won't even utilize.

In the 2nd, sure take him. But as a 1st round pick, especially a high 1st round pick, he's just not worth the risk. Especially when, even if the risk doesn't bite us, the way we use that position won't take advantage of his greatest strengths.

milkman
02-12-2012, 01:20 PM
Sure - but then read Poe scouting report.

He gets knocked a lot for playing with his pads too high and losing leverage.

Poe presents a scary combination of size and questionable technique that I just don't like when taking a player that high, especially at NT, a position known for guys that get lazy and are otherwise slow to learn.

And again, I think he has a 1st round grade because of his ability to hit gaps and create some trouble in the backfield. He's not going to be asked to do that here. So ultimately, we're giving up a 1st round pick on the guy because of a talent that we won't even utilize.

In the 2nd, sure take him. But as a 1st round pick, especially a high 1st round pick, he's just not worth the risk. Especially when, even if the risk doesn't bite us, the way we use that position won't take advantage of his greatest strengths.

Overall, I agree with your take on Poe.

However, RC showed some flexibility in his scheme (finally) in the latter half of the season to take advantage of Houston's pass rushing ability, and would hopefully do the same with Poe's ability to penetrate and collapse the middle.

If he's sitting there in the second, you take him, as you say, and you adapt to use his natural ability.

whoman69
02-12-2012, 03:30 PM
Overall, I agree with your take on Poe.

However, RC showed some flexibility in his scheme (finally) in the latter half of the season to take advantage of Houston's pass rushing ability, and would hopefully do the same with Poe's ability to penetrate and collapse the middle.

If he's sitting there in the second, you take him, as you say, and you adapt to use his natural ability.

Exactly, Poe is going to be great on breaking down the interior pocket in the pass game. He can be coached up on taking on two blockers for the run game. You can't coach his natural ability.

Saccopoo
02-12-2012, 04:34 PM
Exactly, Poe is going to be great on breaking down the interior pocket in the pass game. He can be coached up on taking on two blockers for the run game. You can't coach his natural ability.

Obviously not, as when you don't dominate a mid-major conference with that size and athleticism, something is not right and it goes beyond coaching.

No one even heard of this guy before this year and he's only getting talked about now because of his size.

Ngata was a high school football legend. He dominated the Pac10. Poe has been average at Memphis. This is a guy who allowed Mississippi State to rack up 645 yards this past season, with Vick Ballard getting 166 yards and three touchdowns on the ground.

At least to me, something isn't adding up with this dude.

O.city
02-12-2012, 04:58 PM
For the reasons Sac said, I'm just not really sold on Poe.

Direckshun
02-12-2012, 06:37 PM
I'm not very high on Poe either, but I'd take a long, hard look if he fell to our 2nd pick.

tredadda
02-12-2012, 07:19 PM
So even though we have Bowe, Baldwin, and Breaston you want to go WR in round 2? Why not address a bigger need like say RT in round 2? I would rather have a more talented RT than a less talented one in round 3.

Tribal Warfare
02-12-2012, 07:37 PM
the 1st round pick will be either Poe ( Crennel pick) or Richardson( to protect Cassel to keep selling him as a good QB) as I said before

O.city
02-12-2012, 07:39 PM
Either pick woudl be fine with me.

Dave Lane
02-12-2012, 08:07 PM
Gee, thanks. :rolleyes:

I've heard the same shit for many of years and then I go back and see how wrong the other douche's were, so by all means...

Link to your old ones I really think that would be a fun exercise. Maybe I need to do one for posterity.

O.city
02-12-2012, 09:21 PM
Just make a mock Dave. Everyone else is doing it.

Chiefnj2
02-13-2012, 08:10 AM
Poe is a classic 2nd round boom or bust draft pick.

There was a good discussion in the latest Patriot/Falcons/Chiefs book (I think Belichick) that the first round is used for the great athletes who played well and consistently in college. 2nd round is where teams reach for the great athlete who for some reason didn't play consistently in college. Coaches all think they can turn the guy around and get a great steal. 3rd round you go back and take the guy who played well in school but who doesn't have the natural god-given athleticism that others have. That's why you often have so many 2nd round busts and solid 3rd round draft choices.

NJChiefsFan
02-13-2012, 08:13 AM
Difference is we have seen Soliai physically dominate at that spot with his height. Poe played at Memphis and didn't physically dominate.

He might be able to play that spot, but an ideal NT is about 61 or 6 2, I think.

I really think going with a vet at the NT spot is the way to go. I know Dorsey has experience, but most of our D-line is young. I think a vet would be a better decision, not to mention that since a quality option is actually out there in Soliai and we have money, I think its the best move. I don't really think NT is a spot we want a guy learning at right now.

suds79
02-13-2012, 02:02 PM
I really think going with a vet at the NT spot is the way to go. I know Dorsey has experience, but most of our D-line is young. I think a vet would be a better decision, not to mention that since a quality option is actually out there in Soliai and we have money, I think its the best move. I don't really think NT is a spot we want a guy learning at right now.

No reason why Poe would have to do all the duty. Take him and sign some FA to split time then. D-lines rotate a lot anyways.

I remember in an interview one thing BJ Raji liked was that there was a vet in there with him (can't remember his name) to share the time and responsibility. That it wasn't all on him as a rookie.

But I'm tired of only vets in the spot and we're continually looking. Would be nice to finally settle it.

htismaqe
02-16-2012, 07:38 AM
No reason why Poe would have to do all the duty. Take him and sign some FA to split time then. D-lines rotate a lot anyways.

I remember in an interview one thing BJ Raji liked was that there was a vet in there with him (can't remember his name) to share the time and responsibility. That it wasn't all on him as a rookie.

But I'm tired of only vets in the spot and we're continually looking. Would be nice to finally settle it.

Raji played mostly at DE his rookie season IIRC.

xztop12
02-16-2012, 08:10 PM
id trade down, get the huge MLB from alabama and a second tier Tackle.

I don't think theres enough tape on Poe to draft him that high, esp for Pioli to do so.

BigChiefFan
02-20-2012, 07:24 PM
I got into a huge hurry and posted this too soon, without being able to correct it for a while-I should have specified to trade down to get Poe.

jd1020
02-20-2012, 07:44 PM
Doesn't make your mock any better.

BigChiefFan
03-02-2012, 10:03 AM
Looks like Poe had a dominant combine, guess I'm laughing the loudest.

whoman69
03-02-2012, 02:45 PM
Looks like Poe had a dominant combine, guess I'm laughing the loudest.

Won't be able to trade down for him very far I'm guessing.

Chiefnj2
03-02-2012, 02:53 PM
Who is going to play NT this year?

BigChiefFan
03-03-2012, 11:41 AM
Won't be able to trade down for him very far I'm guessing.Yeah, his stock is on the rise and where he was once considered a mid to late first rounder, he's almost assuredly moved himself into the top 20 with his outstanding combine.

I usually don't put too much stock in the combine, but it definitely gives you a better idea of a player's athletic ability and Poe showed he is a tremendous athlete for a big guy.

Epic Fail 007
03-03-2012, 12:09 PM
Poe is nothing but a lazy sack of shit. No do not want.

aturnis
03-03-2012, 01:27 PM
Poe is nothing but a lazy sack of shit. No do not want.

Kind of this. I'm not gonna shit talk the guy, but he was very unproductive in college. His workout does nothing to change that.

whoman69
03-03-2012, 05:04 PM
Poe is nothing but a lazy sack of shit. No do not want.

That makes my mind up. Sign him up.

BigChiefFan
03-21-2012, 09:10 AM
Kind of this. I'm not gonna shit talk the guy, but he was very unproductive in college. His workout does nothing to change that.He's a NT, none of them are going to have big stats and yet Poe still had better stats than the rest.

I find it interesting that so many are against Poe and then mention these other players, as if they are any better-they aren't. They've all got red-flags. I'll continue to beat the Poe drum because he's the best of the bunch.

Ta'amu-continued to come to camp out of shape, weighing in at 390 lbs. at times, disappeared in large chuncks of games. Will continue to be run stopper and very little pass-rush skills look to be his ceiling.

Chapman, stout against the run, but very little pass rush. Also coming off of major surgery.

Fangupo-very little pass rush skill and history of injuries.

Hicks-played at Community College and in Canada. Very raw and will be a project.

Jean-Baptiste-very raw who will be a major project at the next level.

Chiefnj2
03-21-2012, 10:31 AM
He's a NT, none of them are going to have big stats and yet Poe still had better stats than the rest.

I find it interesting that so many are against Poe and then mention these other players, as if they are any better-they aren't. They've all got red-flags. I'll continue to beat the Poe drum because he's the best of the bunch.

Ta'amu-continued to come to camp out of shape, weighing in at 390 lbs. at times, disappeared in large chuncks of games. Will continue to be run stopper and very little pass-rush skills look to be his ceiling.

Chapman, stout against the run, but very little pass rush. Also coming off of major surgery.

Fangupo-very little pass rush skill and history of injuries.

Hicks-played at Community College and in Canada. Very raw and will be a project.

Jean-Baptiste-very raw who will be a major project at the next level.

He wasn't a NT in college. He played all over the line which is why his stats were better than pure NT's.

If Poe had pedestrian combine numbers would you have wanted him at 11? I can't imagine you would.

lostcause
03-22-2012, 12:15 PM
If there is one position the Chiefs have struck out at drafting in the first round over the last decade it is interior D-Linemen. I would be so much happier drafting DeCastro, who looks about can't miss, and make our O-line bombproof than take a chance on an unmotivated, fat, athletic guy who may or may not transition to this level.

I view this as an opportunity to go with a Will Shields over a Ryan Sims.

BigChiefFan
03-22-2012, 03:05 PM
I'm not sold on the other NTs besides Chapman and his injury is a concern. I think Poe gets a bad rap around here, I believe he'll turn out to be a quality player. I heard the same things about Wilfork and Raji.