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DA_T_84
02-13-2012, 11:41 PM
Routt's visit

Veteran cornerback Stanford Routt, released last week by the Raiders, is visiting with the Chiefs. The Chiefs don’t need a cornerback unless they lose Brandon Carr to free agency. It’s difficult to know now whether the Chiefs are indeed serious about signing Routt or whether they’re merely trying to send a negotiating message to Carr.

The Chiefs can protect either wide receiver Dwayne Bowe or Carr with the franchise tag, a move that would effectively keep one or the other off the free agent market. Carr seems to be the easier one to replace. While losing him would be a hit to the Chiefs, they can find a Routt or another skilled cornerback. Finding a receiver who can give the Chiefs what Bowe has the past couple of years would nearly be impossible.

The Chiefs could always re-sign either Bowe or Carr before free agency begins next month and then place the franchise tag on the other. But here’s the thing to remember with that: The Chiefs prefer to re-sign young veterans who are prospective free agents the season before their contracts expire. The Chiefs have done this with several players, most notably Derrick Johnson, Jamaal Charles, Brandon Flowers and Ryan Succop.

The fact the Chiefs couldn’t get those deals done with Carr and Bowe would indicate they aren’t optimistic about re-signing them before free agency starts. So they may have to make a choice between the two with regard to the franchise tag and Routt’s visit could be a sign they’ve made that decision.



http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/1953

cdcox
02-13-2012, 11:42 PM
meltdown

DA_T_84
02-13-2012, 11:43 PM
I'll cry if we lose Carr.

Romeo must know that we need him.

DA_T_84
02-13-2012, 11:44 PM
Clay, How did Routt do this past season a la PFF?

BossChief
02-13-2012, 11:49 PM
Routt had a down year as the Raiders #1 corner, but iirc the year before last he was pretty damn good as a #2 corner.

FAX
02-13-2012, 11:52 PM
I thought Carr was outplaying Flowers, actually. It will be a shame to see him go and, if he does, it will boil down to an austerity move on behalf of Dr. Evil.

He's been here 3 years. It's about time to sit back and watch him tear this thing apart. Belichick has testes of steel when it comes to that sort of thing. I can only imagine that Dr. Evil would love to emulate him in this respect.

This promises to be a long, drawn-out screwing, so prepare yourselves.

FAX

cdcox
02-13-2012, 11:58 PM
I understood when we let go of Albert Lewis at age 33. But Carr is 25.

You could sort of see why they would trade Allen. He had some legal baggage and we got some value in return.

Have we ever let such a talented, young guy walk away for nothing?

Three7s
02-14-2012, 12:03 AM
This franchise is a joke. A team with this much cap room, but can't sign two of their best players?

BigMeatballDave
02-14-2012, 12:06 AM
:( So long, Carr.

Eat a bag of maggot and Aids infested dicks, Scott.

ChiefsCountry
02-14-2012, 12:10 AM
Sounds like a negioation ploy on the Chiefs part. Bring in some one of equal or less value and the price will go down more than likely.

KC Tattoo
02-14-2012, 12:13 AM
Sounds like a negioation ploy on the Chiefs part. Bring in some one of equal or less value and the price will go down more than likely.

Not really, there is still a market for him to go else where. Just stupid on Chiefs part.

RustShack
02-14-2012, 12:17 AM
There's other teams going after Routt so obviously we would have to spend a lot of coin on him. This is just a power move by Pioli trying to get Carr to lower the price a little. Carr wants to stay in KC and play for Crennel.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-14-2012, 12:31 AM
There's other teams going after Routt so obviously we would have to spend a lot of coin on him. This is just a power move by Pioli trying to get Carr to lower the price a little. Carr wants to stay in KC and play for Crennel.

Link?

Chocolate Hog
02-14-2012, 12:36 AM
Would you guys rather re-sign Carr or would you take Landry + Routt?

3rd&48ers
02-14-2012, 12:38 AM
Wonder when Carr will visit Oakland

KILLER_CLOWN
02-14-2012, 12:44 AM
Wonder when Carr will visit Oakland

Been there, done that and looks like a no thanks on the way out.

BigMeatballDave
02-14-2012, 01:03 AM
Would you guys rather re-sign Carr or would you take Landry + Routt?

Carr. We know he is good and he is only 25.

KC Tattoo
02-14-2012, 01:07 AM
Would you guys rather re-sign Carr or would you take Landry + Routt?

No. We got a great thing going with Carr & Flowers + + + getting Eric Berry back with Kendric Lewis our secondary is second to none.

MagicHef
02-14-2012, 01:09 AM
Carr is more than welcome in Denver.

ThaVirus
02-14-2012, 01:17 AM
Carr is more than welcome in Denver.

YOU GO TO HELL! YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!!

salame
02-14-2012, 02:04 AM
I really don't think Carr is that much better than Routt.

BigMeatballDave
02-14-2012, 02:12 AM
I really don't think Carr is that much better than Routt.

:spock:

crazycoffey
02-14-2012, 02:46 AM
Hedging the bet, see who is cheaper between carr and routt? who is a better CB between the two? and what equals a better value between price and production? What if Carr is asking way more than Routt?

What if we got Routt for almost half of we would keep Carr? Is that a good move for the organization? Not that I think that how it comes out, but if it's nothing more than seeing market value for the CB free agents to know what to offer Carr, than it's a smart move.

WhiteWhale
02-14-2012, 03:09 AM
Clay, How did Routt do this past season a la PFF?

I'll tell you instead.

First and foremost Routt led all CB's in penalties.

He also led all CB's in TD's allowed.

These are the facts.

I'd rather roll with Arenas.

Easy 6
02-14-2012, 06:23 AM
I'll tell you instead.

First and foremost Routt led all CB's in penalties.

He also led all CB's in TD's allowed.

These are the facts.

I'd rather roll with Arenas.

And i'll roll with this post.

ForeverChiefs58
02-14-2012, 06:32 AM
All the holes on this team...and he brings in a fucking CB?



Sign Carr and Bowe dumbass!

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 06:38 AM
Hedging the bet, see who is cheaper between carr and routt? who is a better CB between the two? and what equals a better value between price and production? What if Carr is asking way more than Routt?

What if we got Routt for almost half of we would keep Carr? Is that a good move for the organization? Not that I think that how it comes out, but if it's nothing more than seeing market value for the CB free agents to know what to offer Carr, than it's a smart move.

Considering that Carr is more than TWICE to CB Routt is, we better sign him for A LOT LESS than half of what Carr gets.

This is bullshit. Smart move my ass. We could have signed Carr before the season and got him for Flowers money. He's going to get PAID now.

the Talking Can
02-14-2012, 06:40 AM
i've been assured, repeatedly, that the reason we are 30 mill under the cap year after is year is because Clark wants to resign our own players....

so we're going to resign Carr...Clark is not a cheap bastard

the Talking Can
02-14-2012, 06:41 AM
I really don't think Carr is that much better than Routt.


and the rationalizing begins

ForeverChiefs58
02-14-2012, 06:44 AM
I really don't think Carr is that much better than Routt.

Carr is a lot better. And it's not even close.

Mr_Tomahawk
02-14-2012, 07:59 AM
He is scheduled to meet the Cowboys later this week too.

I have a feelings that is where he will land.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 08:08 AM
We could have signed Carr before the season and got him for Flowers money.

Link?

Pioli and Crennel have come out and said they want to re-sign Carr and Bowe. Maybe Carr and Bowe have had changes of mind. Maybe their agents said the team isn't going anywhere on offense with Daboll and Cassel, you can get top dollar from another team and have a better chance of getting a ring. Maybe their agent doesn't think Romeo will last more than 3 years and they will be looking for a new home under a new coach in a few years.

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 08:28 AM
Link?

Pioli and Crennel have come out and said they want to re-sign Carr and Bowe. Maybe Carr and Bowe have had changes of mind. Maybe their agents said the team isn't going anywhere on offense with Daboll and Cassel, you can get top dollar from another team and have a better chance of getting a ring. Maybe their agent doesn't think Romeo will last more than 3 years and they will be looking for a new home under a new coach in a few years.

There's been tons of rumors that we are negotiating currently with both of them. There were no rumors at all of negotiations LAST SUMMER, before Daboll or any of the rest of it. They could have signed both of them to extensions coming off a 10-6 season and a playoff appearance.

It's all just a bunch of excuses.

58-4ever
02-14-2012, 08:33 AM
As soon as we sign one, the other can be franchised. I don't care which one, but a deal needs to get done soon.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 08:43 AM
There's been tons of rumors that we are negotiating currently with both of them. There were no rumors at all of negotiations LAST SUMMER, before Daboll or any of the rest of it. They could have signed both of them to extensions coming off a 10-6 season and a playoff appearance.

It's all just a bunch of excuses.

Pioli has been signing players to extensions before their contract runs out. He's been doing it with players who he didn't draft. There is no proof whatsoever that Pioli was delaying negotiations with these two.

If you believe the rumors that popped up when Haley was fired, we know that when Haley was calling Bowe names sometime during this past season and Bowe went to Pioli to complain, the rumor was that Pioli told Haley to quit f'ing with guys he's trying to sign.

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 08:48 AM
Pioli has been signing players to extensions before their contract runs out. He's been doing it with players who he didn't draft. There is no proof whatsoever that Pioli was delaying negotiations with these two.

There's no proof the players are delaying either.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 08:52 AM
There's no proof the players are delaying either.

You blamed it on Pioli without any proof.

I pointed to a little bit of evidence that Pioli was in talks with Bowe's agent during the 2012 season.

King_Chief_Fan
02-14-2012, 08:54 AM
Link?

Pioli and Crennel have come out and said they want to re-sign Carr and Bowe. Maybe Carr and Bowe have had changes of mind. Maybe their agents said the team isn't going anywhere on offense with Daboll and Cassel, you can get top dollar from another team and have a better chance of getting a ring. Maybe their agent doesn't think Romeo will last more than 3 years and they will be looking for a new home under a new coach in a few years.

man you really come up with some maybes.........this is the league of big money. That is all that concerns Carr and Bowe....MAYBE?

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 08:58 AM
You blamed it on Pioli without any proof.

I pointed to a little bit of evidence that Pioli was in talks with Bowe's agent during the 2012 season.

Dude, I'm not going to argue with you. There's a "little bit of evidence" for a lot of things, but you only seem to accept the bits that agree with your way of thinking.

O.city
02-14-2012, 09:04 AM
So does anyone know for sure, can we sign Carr right now?

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 09:14 AM
man you really come up with some maybes.........this is the league of big money. That is all that concerns Carr and Bowe....MAYBE?

People are claiming both of these guys could have been signed for a lot less money last year, and that Pioli somehow delayed things.

That's the statement I was replying to. There is no proof of that.

We do know that Pioli has been extending contracts before they end. We do know that Pioli gave top dollar to extend the contracts of players he didn't draft.

There is at least one story out there that Bowe complained to Pioli about Haley and Pioli told Haley to stop messing with guys he's trying to extend. That's some proof that negotiations were going on prior to the season ending. That's also some proof that Bowe was comfortable enough with Pioli to go see him directly about the head coach, and the GM took the side of the player.

I understand that on the Planet both Pioli and Cassel are the devil. Pioli is the worst GM in the history of the NFL and Cassel is the worst QB in the NFL. If anyone doesn't immediately bastardize either of those guys, they aren't cool and the mob comes out.

KCUnited
02-14-2012, 09:19 AM
Carr gave an interview to Nick Wright a couple of weeks ago stating that he was willing to get a new deal done prior to the 2011 season. Obviously several factors could have prevented that deal from getting done, but he indicated that he was willing to sign prior to the season. Logic would indicate that when he hits the open FA market, it will cost more to sign him.

I don't have a link to that interview, but it was discussed here at the time of the interview.

Urc Burry
02-14-2012, 09:19 AM
So does anyone know for sure, can we sign Carr right now?

We cant sign Carr until March

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 09:30 AM
People are claiming both of these guys could have been signed for a lot less money last year, and that Pioli somehow delayed things.

That's the statement I was replying to. There is no proof of that.

We do know that Pioli has been extending contracts before they end. We do know that Pioli gave top dollar to extend the contracts of players he didn't draft.

There is at least one story out there that Bowe complained to Pioli about Haley and Pioli told Haley to stop messing with guys he's trying to extend. That's some proof that negotiations were going on prior to the season ending. That's also some proof that Bowe was comfortable enough with Pioli to go see him directly about the head coach, and the GM took the side of the player.

I understand that on the Planet both Pioli and Cassel are the devil. Pioli is the worst GM in the history of the NFL and Cassel is the worst QB in the NFL. If anyone doesn't immediately bastardize either of those guys, they aren't cool and the mob comes out.

There's 2 sides to every story. It's ALL speculation. You just want to be a contrarian.

Because the prevailing attitude here is that Pioli and Cassel are the root of all evil, you've made it your personal mission to combat that.

BigRock
02-14-2012, 09:36 AM
If you believe the rumors that popped up when Haley was fired, we know that when Haley was calling Bowe names sometime during this past season and Bowe went to Pioli to complain, the rumor was that Pioli told Haley to quit f'ing with guys he's trying to sign.

That story was from Nick Wright, who had to backtrack on it after Bowe shot it down to an SI writer.

go bowe
02-14-2012, 09:39 AM
eh, cassel is more like the stump of all that is evil...

BigRock
02-14-2012, 09:39 AM
So does anyone know for sure, can we sign Carr right now?

Why wouldn't we be able to?

SNR
02-14-2012, 09:42 AM
I understand that on the Planet both Pioli and Cassel are the devil. Pioli is the worst GM in the history of the NFL and Cassel is the worst QB in the NFL. If anyone doesn't immediately bastardize either of those guys, they aren't cool and the mob comes out.At this time last year, absolutely. That would totally be true.

Since then it's been proven that Haley was just as much of an assclown as Cassel and Pioli. I could totally see the story about Bowe going to see Pioli being true.

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 09:46 AM
Why wouldn't we be able to?

Can't negotiate with him because of the 30% rule or something, I'm not real familiar with it compared to some here.

BigRock
02-14-2012, 09:52 AM
Can't negotiate with him because of the 30% rule or something, I'm not real familiar with it compared to some here.

I'm 95% sure the 30% rule was just a by-product of the previous CBA as it was expiring. It effected teams from 2010 through the new CBA going through. I haven't heard of anything to suggest that it still applies today. If it did, it would have applied to Tamba's new contract and several others across the league, and I don't remember it ever coming up with those.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 09:59 AM
Because the prevailing attitude here is that Pioli and Cassel are the root of all evil, you've made it your personal mission to combat that.

Complete bullshit. I've been very critical of Pioli. KC is in the mess it is right now because (a) he can't depart or have any independent thought outside of his "Patriot Way" attitude, and (b) his entire first year with the Chiefs was a waste - Haley, Clancey, Cassel, draft, etc.

As for Cassel, I was open to his acquisition because I didn't think Sanchez was very good. Nobody on this board cared for Freeman. Those were the options. I was for taking Mallet last year, and I'm 100% on the wagon to give whatever it takes to get RGIII - 1st round picks, tag and trade Bowe, whatever.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 09:59 AM
Dude, I'm not going to argue with you. There's a "little bit of evidence" for a lot of things, but you only seem to accept the bits that agree with your way of thinking.
All he did was state that what you said was wrong and used something Pioli said to back his claim.

If the report he sighted is true, it completely contradicts what your stance is.

Its a little funny that Pioli hasn't lost ANYONE in 3 years that he hasn't upgraded from said "lost player" like letting Shaun Smith walk and drafting Bailey... (and has extended the deals of some of our best players) and yet some here call him foolish fir events that haven't transpired yet...even if prior events indicate he is very good at this part of his job and will do whatever it takes to get our guys signed.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 10:01 AM
I'm 95% sure the 30% rule was just a by-product of the previous CBA as it was expiring. It effected teams from 2010 through the new CBA going through. I haven't heard of anything to suggest that it still applies today. If it did, it would have applied to Tamba's new contract and several others across the league, and I don't remember it ever coming up with those.

It involved limits to increasing base salaries by 30% at most. You get around it by giving signing and other bonus'.

Pestilence
02-14-2012, 10:02 AM
Hey Pioli and Hunt........go fuck yourselves.

hometeam
02-14-2012, 10:04 AM
Carr is top 5 CB in the league.

Routt is top 50.

Any questions?

Pestilence
02-14-2012, 10:05 AM
Routt is also 3 years older than Carr.

Epic Fail 007
02-14-2012, 10:08 AM
This franchise is a joke. A team with this much cap room, but can't sign two of their best players?

If thier a joke gtfo and stfu!

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 10:09 AM
All he did was state that what you said was wrong and used something Pioli said to back his claim.

If the report he sighted is true, it completely contradicts what your stance is.

Its a little funny that Pioli hasn't lost ANYONE in 3 years that he hasn't upgraded from said "lost player" like letting Shaun Smith walk and drafting Bailey... (and has extended the deals of some of our best players) and yet some here call him foolish fir events that haven't transpired yet...even if prior events indicate he is very good at this part of his job and will do whatever it takes to get our guys signed.

IF the report he cited is true.

Of course, the Charles Robinson reports were complete BS. The reports from Nick Wright were unfounded.

But THIS particularly small piece of information is suddenly worthy of being believed.

:hmmm:

BigRock
02-14-2012, 10:10 AM
It involved limits to increasing base salaries by 30% at most. You get around it by giving signing and other bonus'.

Right. But as I was saying, I'm aware of nothing to suggest that the rule is still in effect now that the new CBA has been reached.

The 30% rule was a provision in the old CBA that only came into effect in the final year or so of the agreement. So I have no idea why it would still be applicable now with a new CBA that's a decade away from it's final year.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 10:15 AM
That story was from Nick Wright, who had to backtrack on it after Bowe shot it down to an SI writer.

I never saw anything about Bowe shooting it down. Do you recall the writer?

King_Chief_Fan
02-14-2012, 10:30 AM
People are claiming both of these guys could have been signed for a lot less money last year, and that Pioli somehow delayed things.

That's the statement I was replying to. There is no proof of that.

We do know that Pioli has been extending contracts before they end. We do know that Pioli gave top dollar to extend the contracts of players he didn't draft.

There is at least one story out there that Bowe complained to Pioli about Haley and Pioli told Haley to stop messing with guys he's trying to extend. That's some proof that negotiations were going on prior to the season ending. That's also some proof that Bowe was comfortable enough with Pioli to go see him directly about the head coach, and the GM took the side of the player.

I understand that on the Planet both Pioli and Cassel are the devil. Pioli is the worst GM in the history of the NFL and Cassel is the worst QB in the NFL. If anyone doesn't immediately bastardize either of those guys, they aren't cool and the mob comes out.

MAYBE Bowe is holing out to be with Haley in Pittsburg...the new Hines Ward?
I don't know anything about anyone being the devil or needing to bastardize anyone. Lots of people have opinions, you and me included. But, you have to admit so much of this is strange...how else could we come up with all the MAYBEs?

O.city
02-14-2012, 10:46 AM
Chiefs: Draft, Chiefs Cap Space, Bowe and Carr thoughts
In 2010 Scott Pioli said about the draft, "One of the things we set about to accomplish when we took this team over," Scott Pioli said, "was to improve our team speed. We became a faster football team today." Pioli's first year in 2009 with the Chiefs he used 3 out of his 4 first picks along both sides of the line. Last year it appeared with Baldwin, Houston, and Bailey that Pioli targeted the freaks of the draft and channelled his inner Al Davis. When I look at these drafts, my impression is Pioli drafts to improve in areas. Not based on need or BPA, rather areas of a team.


When I look at the Chiefs the weakest area is the power run game. This line is as strong as the weakest link, and the Chiefs had 3. Chiefs have some good pieces with Albert, Asomaoh, and potential in Hudson. Something has to be done with Lilja and Richardson (assuming Casey retires). For me this line won't get a dimension it needs unless upgrades are made here.


In the draft Chiefs must draft a LT first. Not because the Chiefs need to replace Albert but the Chiefs need ability. In the draft we look at the positions without really looking at the ability. Teams with the ability to run off the Right Tackles block are teams with Right Tackles that can make that block. Teams that can 7 step, and effectively play action are teams with players that have the ability to execute those plays. We attach labels like LT, but it's really that simple, Chiefs need players that offer this offense more versatility.


Pioli showed that he drafts this way. That he values the skill and what a guy brings to his larger agenda. Similar to 2010 when Chiefs drafted speed, 2011 when the Chiefs drafted freaks (endearingly, and for lack of better term), in 2011 I think that the Chiefs draft power. Wether that is a Nose, or Offensive Lineman, similar to past draft, I think 3 out 4, or 4 out of 6 picks will be used in these areas.


Chiefs Salary Cap


Chiefs have a great asset with the cap. The Salary Cap is partly an indicator of a football team in terms of talent. The other part is an indicator of what the football team is as a business. What is missing in the salary cap discussion is the business aspect of a football team. The Chiefs cap is traditional, on the business side of the Chiefs, the management of the cap should be commended. It can't be ignored and should be looked at individually.


At times the cap is looked at one way. It indicates that a team is under the illusion of spending money. The cap is simply a reflection of the contracts of the players on your team, not a complete reflection of your team.


A contract is just a contract. For instance 60 million dollar contract to a Quarterback is the standard for a Free Agent Quarterback. Sometimes we use these number to categorize the ability. Matt Cassel similar to Matt Shuab a couple years prior signed a 48 million dollar contract after a 3 year career in Atlanta in which he started only 2 games.


The value can be debated, but that is the rate for backup Quarterbacks that enough bidders think they can be a starter. That's the business side, Pioli may think Cassel is worth 6 years 10 million. The market given the circumstance of a QB in Matt Cassel's position the market values that near 60 million dollars for 6 years.


Pioli made that choice. He could have done it with a draft pick. He could have pursued a veteran as many teams did with Favre, McNabb, Carson Palmer, Mike Vick, Drew Brees, and potentially will with Peyton Manning. Pioli's choice was Matt Cassel and the results are there. Chiefs acquired a 60 million dollar asset, where you essentially pay 1/3 of that 60 million up front.


The way the Chiefs paid for that asset was different than what most teams do. Business wise the Chiefs made the same investment that most teams do in the NFL, a 2nd rounder and 63 million. It's not cheap, the illusion of being cheap is there because of the way the Chiefs accounted for the contract.


With a roster bonus Chiefs can absorb a hit early in the contract. With Matt Cassel, The Chiefs only signed him to a little north of 1 million on the signing bonus. The moment he signed the Chiefs were accountable within the cap to count for it. Over 6 years they decided to divide that money evenly. If that Cassel doesn't make it 6 years then Chiefs are accountable to the rest of that 1 million dollars immediately (see June 1st cuts).


Matt Cassel's base salary the first 3 years was near 28 million dollars. That base salary was guaranteed. For instance Brandon Carr has a injury, skill, and cap clause. This clause basically means a player cannot be cut because of injury, player cannot be cut because of diminished skills, player cannot be cut for cap reasons. In Brandon Carr's case he has all 3 for the first two years of a contract. This is considered guaranteed, because it is unlikely that he would be cut in the first 2 years of the contract.


With Matt Cassel it was similar. His base was guaranteed because there was language in his contract that made him likely to be there for the first 3 years like Brandon Flowers. In reality the Chiefs paid Cassel with a 10 million dollar roster bonus, 1.2 million dollar signing bonus, and a 5 million dollar base. That amount hit the cap in 09' to a tune of 15 million. Over the course of 3 years Chiefs paid the addition base salaries over 24 million and the guarantees are over business wise.


Not many teams can account for 40 million dollars in 3 years on their cap without nearly 12 million dollars worth of cap space. Most teams cannot structure deals that way. Instead mostly what we see with cap space around the league is large amounts for some organizations is dead money. Any team that gives a player a signing bonus is carrying dead money on the cap for however long that player is on the roster. In the Chiefs case they have little dead money.


When looking at the cap, one must understand not only what it is, but the actual contracts that are represented within it.


Bowe and Carr


My belief with Bowe and Carr is that they will be in Kansas City. Teams lose assets because of the business most of the times. Teams near the cap do not want to give up talents like Carl Nicks. Carl Nicks being a realistic possibility isn't a reflection of anything other than New Orleans cap. New Orleans has the ability to pay him, but they don't have the ability at this time to account for him at the rate a player of his caliber would cost.


The Chiefs do not have that problem. We have to think of it in terms of accountability. Chiefs can account for more money than any team in the NFL. Chiefs can give a 10 million dollar roster bonus to Carr, a 5 million dollar base, and guarantee the base salaries against injury the first two years. That guarantees the contract for a little over 20 million the first 2 years. Non guarantee the final 4 years of the contract and that's a 6 year 50 million dollar contract. If that isn't enough then add a 5 million dollar signing bonus. The Chiefs have the same years, length, and money invested, but the accounting would be different than most teams.



Thought this was interesting.

Mr. Laz
02-14-2012, 11:25 AM
I'll cry if we lose Carr.

Romeo must know that we need him.
romeo knows more than we do about what we need or don't need.


this could just a negotiating ploy


maybe Carr told the Chief he is not signing any deal until after he hits free agency?

:shrug:

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 11:28 AM
romeo knows more than we do about what we need or don't need.


this could just a negotiating ploy


maybe Carr told the Chief is not signing any deal until after he hits free agency? :shrug:

As much as I hate being fair to the Chiefs FO right now, there's still that 30% rule thing hanging out there. I don't think they can do anything right now, even if they wanted to. Right?

qabbaan
02-14-2012, 11:44 AM
Losing Carr will suck, but if we lose both of them...

ChiefsandO'sfan
02-14-2012, 11:56 AM
The Houston Chronicle reports the Texans have "nothing lined up" with free agent CB Stanford Routt.
Scout.com reported Monday that Routt was set to visit the Texans "later this week," but it apparently won't happen. The Chronicle's John McClain does not expect the cap-strapped Texans to bid on free agents "other than their own." Related: Texans

DeezNutz
02-14-2012, 12:00 PM
romeo knows more than we do about what we need or don't need.


And Pioli knows more about Cassel than anyone else in football. Thus, if he trades for him, we know he must be good.

I'm not trying to dismiss your assertion, but appeals to authority are dangerous at best.

Mr. Laz
02-14-2012, 12:37 PM
And Pioli knows more about Cassel than anyone else in football. Thus, if he trades for him, we know he must be good.

I'm not trying to dismiss your assertion, but appeals to authority are dangerous at best.I understand, but i think that Romeo right now is pretty tuned in on what the defense is and is not.

RustShack
02-14-2012, 12:37 PM
The Houston Chronicle reports the Texans have "nothing lined up" with free agent CB Stanford Routt.
Scout.com reported Monday that Routt was set to visit the Texans "later this week," but it apparently won't happen. The Chronicle's John McClain does not expect the cap-strapped Texans to bid on free agents "other than their own." Related: Texans

Does that mean no Manning for them?

Sofa King
02-14-2012, 12:43 PM
Does that mean no Manning for them?

I seriously doubt there was ever any real interest in Manning from the Texans.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 12:44 PM
IF the report he cited is true.

Of course, the Charles Robinson reports were complete BS. The reports from Nick Wright were unfounded.

But THIS particularly small piece of information is suddenly worthy of being believed.

:hmmm:I don't follow the reasoning for this post.

I understand, but i think that Romeo right now is pretty tuned in on what the defense is and is not.
Totally agree.

I also think Romeo is fully aware of our need for a new quarterback, as is his prized defender in Hali.

The statements both made at the end of the year (promoting Orton) were VERY TELLING.

ChiefsCountry
02-14-2012, 12:45 PM
If we use Carr's money on say Paul Soliai - that would be better for the team IMO. Don't get me wrong I want to resign Carr, but if we can get two pieces or so for the same price that could better this team I am all for it.

ForeverChiefs58
02-14-2012, 12:52 PM
If we use Carr's money on say Paul Soliai - that would be better for the team IMO. Don't get me wrong I want to resign Carr, but if we can get two pieces or so for the same price that could better this team I am all for it.

Do you know that the Chiefs have more cap room (60 mil) than any other team in the NFL?

We could very easily get Bowe, Carr, Soliai, OL, RB, S, TE and still have money for a QB.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 01:06 PM
If we use Carr's money on say Paul Soliai - that would be better for the team IMO. Don't get me wrong I want to resign Carr, but if we can get two pieces or so for the same price that could better this team I am all for it.

No reason they can't do both.

Give Carr a carbon copy of Flowers deal and give Soliai Wilfork money.

If it comes down to it, I'd rather have Carr. He is a three down player where Soliai would likely be a 2 down guy for us. Also, the way the rules have changed to favor the passing game, guys like Carr are extremely valuable.

I wouldn't cry if we lost Carr...but signed Soliai AND Routt (who was damn good as the Raiders 2 year before last)...but I would be disappointed because it goes avaunt what I see as good team building.

DeezNutz
02-14-2012, 01:17 PM
I understand, but i think that Romeo right now is pretty tuned in on what the defense is and is not.

One would hope, but letting Carr walk would definitely shake any confidence that I might have in the level of common sense at 1 Arrowhead.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 01:26 PM
One would hope, but letting Carr walk would definitely shake any confidence that I might have in the level of common sense at 1 Arrowhead.let me preface this with saying I am asking a question and I myself really don't have a perfect answer.

Do you think it's smart to invest over 25% of the teams cap space into the secondary?

Flowers is gonna average 10/yr
Berry averages almost 12/yr
Cars deal would be 10/yr
Lewis is gonna get minimum wage.

That's over 32 million anualy into the secondary.

The cap is a little over 120.

I know it's possible to work the deal so it fits a plan, but that's a lot of dedicated funds to one group.

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 01:28 PM
let me preface this with saying I am asking a question and I myself really don't have a perfect answer.

Do you think it's smart to invest over 25% of the teams cap space into the secondary?

Flowers is gonna average 10/yr
Berry averages almost 12/yr
Cars deal would be 10/yr
Lewis is gonna get minimum wage.

That's over 32 million anualy into the secondary.

The cap is a little over 120.

I know it's possible to work the deal so it fits a plan, but that's a lot of dedicated funds to one group.

They should have thought of that before they signed Flowers. If either of the two are expendable, it's Flowers, not Carr.

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 01:29 PM
No reason they can't do both.

Give Carr a carbon copy of Flowers deal and give Soliai Wilfork money.

If it comes down to it, I'd rather have Carr. He is a three down player where Soliai would likely be a 2 down guy for us. Also, the way the rules have changed to favor the passing game, guys like Carr are extremely valuable.

I wouldn't cry if we lost Carr...but signed Soliai AND Routt (who was damn good as the Raiders 2 year before last)...but I would be disappointed because it goes avaunt what I see as good team building.

No reason they can't do ALL OF THE ABOVE.

They have enough cap room to sign Carr, Bowe, Carl Nicks, Solai, AND probably still have enough room to do something creative with PEYTON MANNING.

The simple fact is that the cap is EASY to manipulate, provided a front office WANTS to.

Detoxing
02-14-2012, 01:29 PM
One would hope, but letting Carr walk would definitely shake any confidence that I might have in the level of common sense at 1 Arrowhead.

This.

If they let Carr or Bowe walk w/o bringing in any legit upgrades, then that'll be the nail in the coffin for me.

It proves that this team just isn't committed to winning. You don't let great, homegrown players walk when you have ample money.

It'll be a dark day for me personally, as a Chiefs fan. In my head, I'll finally have proof that this team is just like another MLB farm team.

Yeah, maybe they'll get lucky and back themselves into a playoff win here and there, kinda like the Padres or Royals.

But I cant invest this much time and money into a team that doesn't try to return the favor.

There is absolutely no reason they can't lock up both other than greed.

Detoxing
02-14-2012, 01:31 PM
let me preface this with saying I am asking a question and I myself really don't have a perfect answer.

Do you think it's smart to invest over 25% of the teams cap space into the secondary?

Flowers is gonna average 10/yr
Berry averages almost 12/yr
Cars deal would be 10/yr
Lewis is gonna get minimum wage.

That's over 32 million anualy into the secondary.

The cap is a little over 120.

I know it's possible to work the deal so it fits a plan, but that's a lot of dedicated funds to one group.

You're trying to simplify contracts that aren't simple.

You can't just take Flower's 60 Million dollar figure and just divide it.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 01:33 PM
They should have thought of that before they signed Flowers. If either of the two are expendable, it's Flowers, not Carr.

I disagree with that assessment.

As structy cover guys, no question.

As overall defenders, I'd chose Flowers.

Dude is fantastic in run support where Carr is a notch above average.

Also remember that Flowers was covering opposing 1s while Carr was mostly on the 2s...two years ago Routt was really good as a 2nd corner when the team had Asamughua. That's the role he would be playing in KC...I still am not sold we are looking at him as anything but leverage.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 01:37 PM
Do you need two high priced corners to play Romeo's D which utilizes a lot of zone?

If they use the money for other positions, I'm not happy, but I can rationalize that decision. If Carr goes and they are under the cap by 15-20 million, I'm pissed.

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 01:37 PM
I disagree with that assessment.

As structy cover guys, no question.

As overall defenders, I'd chose Flowers.

Dude is fantastic in run support where Carr is a notch above average.

Also remember that Flowers was covering opposing 1s while Carr was mostly on the 2s...two years ago Routt was really good as a 2nd corner when the team had Asamughua. That's the role he would be playing in KC...I still am not sold we are looking at him as anything but leverage.

I've heard Kevin Harlan say many times that other teams fear Carr, not Flowers. That's all I need to hear.

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 01:38 PM
Do you need two high priced corners to play Romeo's D which utilizes a lot of zone?

If they use the money for other positions, I'm not happy, but I can rationalize that decision. If Carr goes and they are under the cap by 15-20 million, I'm pissed.

Especially this.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 01:40 PM
I've heard Kevin Harlan say many times that other teams fear Carr, not Flowers. That's all I need to hear.

Like I said, Carr is better than Flowers in coverage.

Flowers is far better in run support though.

If you don't agree with that......?

ChiefsandO'sfan
02-14-2012, 01:42 PM
Like I said, Carr is better than Flowers in coverage.

Flowers is far better in run support though.

If you don't agree with that......?

Carr is always on the number 2 WR and if routt comes here he will be too.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 01:43 PM
Carr is always on the number 2 WR and if routt comes here he will be too.

Completely and 100% not true. Flowers always plays the left side of the D. If he is against #1 WR's its because that is what the offense is gameplanning.

Detoxing
02-14-2012, 01:44 PM
Do you need two high priced corners to play Romeo's D which utilizes a lot of zone?



Well, considering the D played a helluva lot better when the Corners began playing man and Romeo started Blitzing, yeah, i'd say two high priced Corners should be on the Menu, especially when they're your own.

No excuses. They should be able to keep both AND upgrade the roster.

I just can't settle for less and be satisfied.

Especially knowing that they still plan on rolling out Matt Cassel.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 01:45 PM
Can someone that has PFF post Routts rankings from year before last when he was playing the role Carr has played?

IIRC he was one of the top five overall corners in their yearly ranking.

I'd like to see how that stacks up to Carrs ranking from last year.

FAX
02-14-2012, 01:47 PM
Carr is always on the number 2 WR and if routt comes here he will be too.

Ummmm ... not necessarily, Mr. ChiefsandO'sfan ... no offense, or anything.

Enemy offenses will shift guys around a ton. There's no guarantee that Carr will be assigned the #2 guy ... although I'm sure that Crennel would like to see certain matchups.

To me, the bottom line here is this; why would anybody want to break up a young, talented, and highly effective DB team that is the core of a young, talented, emerging, highly effective, and feared secondary?

Nobody does that on purpose. Do they?

FAX

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 01:48 PM
Well if Carr walks... Routt would probably be our best bet for the replacement.
He was fantastic when he was the 2nd guy in the corner position... Which he will be cause Flowers... As bad as it sounds, we might be fine... Carr wasn't a "game changer" so the replacement won't be so dramatic.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 01:50 PM
Carr seems to be better against speed receivers than Flowers does. Also better than Routt.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 01:50 PM
Completely and 100% not true. Flowers always plays the left side of the D. If he is against #1 WR's its because that is what the offense is gameplanning.

Thats just as wrong, though.

Some teams line up xyz and don't move guys around too much...other teams line up depending in personel...same goes for defenses.

Some defenses move their top corner to man up on opponents best receiver...others (like us) keep the rcb on the right and the lcb on the left and play it how they see fit.

More times than not, Carr was matched up on the opposing teams second best wideout.

Urc Burry
02-14-2012, 01:51 PM
Carr is always on the number 2 WR and if routt comes here he will be too.

That is 100% false. Flowers is solely the left corner and I'm not sure he has ever been asked to blanket a receiver

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 01:52 PM
Thats just as wrong, though.

Some teams line up xyz and don't move guys around too much...other teams line up depending in personel...same goes for defenses.

Some defenses move their top corner to man up on opponents best receiver...others (like us) keep the rcb on the right and the lcb on the left and play it how they see fit.

More times than not, Carr was matched up on the opposing teams second best wideout.

If KC plays RCB and LCB, and offenses shift to take advantage of personnel, then if Carr is going against the #2 then isn't it by offensive design to get that matchup?

BossChief
02-14-2012, 01:52 PM
One things for sure.

If we let Carr walk and don't spend that chunk of cash on good investments, you won't see me sitting here defending Pioli next year.

Mark that down.

tooge
02-14-2012, 01:52 PM
it is a passing league. The reason the chiefs stiffled the donks at the end of the year was because they were able to go man coverage and use safeties to shadow teabag. Corners are a premium position in this league and teams with solid secondary play will help the D-line etc. If you are 63 million under the cap and you have already sealed up most of the core guys and just need to do these two, then you freaking sign Carr and Bowe to long term contracts. why is this so damn hard to understand.

mcaj22
02-14-2012, 01:54 PM
Can someone that has PFF post Routts rankings from year before last when he was playing the role Carr has played?

IIRC he was one of the top five overall corners in their yearly ranking.

I'd like to see how that stacks up to Carrs ranking from last year.

that's an awful way to draw a comparison and project anything out to shine up a turd like Routt for the silver lining to buffer the potential loss of Carr.

no matter how stats compare come this season if we were to have Routt opposite of Flowers instead of Carr I guarantee you will be screaming at your television by week 1 and this forum will be exploding

Urc Burry
02-14-2012, 01:55 PM
More often then not the teams #1 receiver will go up against the LCB seeing as how that is the open side of most QB's

philfree
02-14-2012, 01:56 PM
I want to keep Carr but here's how it could go.

First we sign Bowe then we franchise Carr and sign Routt. Then we let Carr go to another team for less then the two 1st round picks. We end up with a decent #2CB and we gain draft picks or pick in the process.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 01:59 PM
If KC plays RCB and LCB, and offenses shift to take advantage of personnel, then if Carr is going against the #2 then isn't it by offensive design to get that matchup?

You can't make blanket statements/questions lime that without getting into specifics.

Who covered Andre Johnson?
Megatron?

Those are teams that basically play xyz and basically line up on offense the way we do on defense.

There are other teams that move guys around all game to get matchups.

Other than elite receivers like AJ, Megatron and one outing by Jacoby Ford...who has taken advantage of Flowers the last few years?

I'll tell you one thing, I bet that list is a lot shorter than Carrs from the last 3 years or so.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 02:03 PM
I want to keep Carr but here's how it could go.

First we sign Bowe then we franchise Carr and sign Routt. Then we let Carr go to another team for less then the two 1st round picks. We end up with a decent #2CB and we gain draft picks or pick in the process.

ROFL

Ummmm, no.

...

Mcaj22....I'm not talking about stats.

I'm talking about PFF player rankings.

Two COMPLETELY different things.

htismaqe
02-14-2012, 02:03 PM
Thats just as wrong, though.

Some teams line up xyz and don't move guys around too much...other teams line up depending in personel...same goes for defenses.

Some defenses move their top corner to man up on opponents best receiver...others (like us) keep the rcb on the right and the lcb on the left and play it how they see fit.

More times than not, Carr was matched up on the opposing teams second best wideout.

And again, according to the ACTUAL TEAMS THEMSELVES, that is by design. They put their #1 opposite Flowers because they feel that's a better matchup.

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 02:05 PM
You can't make blanket statements/questions lime that without getting into specifics.

Who covered Andre Johnson?
Megatron?

Those are teams that basically play xyz and basically line up on offense the way we do on defense.

There are other teams that move guys around all game to get matchups.

Other than elite receivers like AJ, Megatron and one outing by Jacoby Ford...who has taken advantage of Flowers the last few years?

I'll tell you one thing, I bet that list is a lot shorter than Carrs from the last 3 years or so.

We are talking about the players now, not 3-4 years ago when they entered the league. Gee, what a surprise a 5th round corner from a division II school needed more time to develop than an early 2nd rounder. Shocker.

I'm pretty sure Stevie Johnson abused Flowers this year.

FAX
02-14-2012, 02:08 PM
You have two DBs who can play man against anybody all day long. Both of these guys will play through injury and pain at a high level.

Yet, you want to give one of them up to FA? Insane.

FAX

BossChief
02-14-2012, 02:10 PM
JFC

How many times should I say this before people let it sink in?

BRANDON CARR IS BETTER THAN BRANDON FLOWERS IN COVERAGE.

I just think Flowers is a better overall DEFENDER due his elite abilities in run support.

If I had to make a decision to only keep one of them, I'd probably keep Flowers because overall I feel he brings more to the overall defense.

Chocolate Hog
02-14-2012, 02:12 PM
Flowers-Berry-Lewis-Routt really isn't a bad secondary and if Houston plays like he did like the last month the defense will be top 10.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 02:13 PM
The question here is why do we need to let anyone walk when we need to spend a fuckton of cash this offseason?

I just don't get it.

Detoxing
02-14-2012, 02:13 PM
JFC

How many times should I say this before people let it sink in?

BRANDON CARR IS BETTER THAN BRANDON FLOWERS IN COVERAGE.

I just think Flowers is a better overall DEFENDER due his elite abilities in run support.

If I had to make a decision to only keep one of them, I'd probably keep Flowers because overall I feel he brings more to the overall defense.

I agree. Flowers has better natural instincts IMO. Flowers has more "swag" and a nose for the ball, he's pretty damn stout in run support.

Carr was blessed with better physical ability, which allows him to make a good play on the ball.

FAX
02-14-2012, 02:13 PM
Flowers-Berry-Lewis-Routt really isn't a bad secondary and if Houston plays like he did like the last month the defense will be top 10.

No. That sounds great if you're a big fan of the PI call.

FAX

FAX
02-14-2012, 02:14 PM
The question here is why do we need to let anyone walk when we need to spend a ****ton of cash this offseason?

I just don't get it.

I don't either.

FAX

Detoxing
02-14-2012, 02:14 PM
Flowers-Berry-Lewis-Routt really isn't a bad secondary and if Houston plays like he did like the last month the defense will be top 10.

As long as Flowers and Berry are back there it'll always be a decent secondary.

But keeping Carr and the continued development of Berry, Lewis and Arenas, would make it elite.

Chocolate Hog
02-14-2012, 02:15 PM
No. That sounds great if you're a big fan of the PI call.

FAX

The Raiders scheme sucked last year and besides Routt that secondary didn't have shit. Go back a year before when Routt was the #2 he was very good.

Pestilence
02-14-2012, 02:17 PM
Flowers-Berry-Landry-Carr really isn't a bad secondary and if Houston plays like he did like the last month the defense will be top 10.

FYP

Chocolate Hog
02-14-2012, 02:18 PM
If you want Landry sure but I don't think Lewis is that bad. Use that extra 5 mil we're saving going for Routt and not signing Carr use it to bring in Soiali and sign Nicks. You then have no excuse to trade up for RGIII.

FAX
02-14-2012, 02:21 PM
The Raiders scheme sucked last year and besides Routt that secondary didn't have shit. Go back a year before when Routt was the #2 he was very good.

Yeah ... he seems to be declining or something, though. Injury, maybe? I don't know.

They just signed him to a pretty big deal, didn't they? Just two years ago? Now they're letting him go? After he offered to restructure his deal to stay?

Something's fishy, I fear.

FAX

BossChief
02-14-2012, 02:23 PM
If we extend Carr and sign Landry, we would have the highest paid secondary in the history of football.

It wouldn't even be close.

We would probably have close to 200 million dollars in contract just in the secondary.

They better be elite

philfree
02-14-2012, 02:38 PM
ROFL

Ummmm, no.

...

Mcaj22....I'm not talking about stats.

I'm talking about PFF player rankings.

Two COMPLETELY different things.

Any explainination to why that's far fetched?

BossChief
02-14-2012, 02:44 PM
Any explainination to why that's far fetched?

I just don't see Clark shelling out 15-20 million dollars in cash for a pick or two and then have to pay another upfront bonus to another first round pick.

Thats essentially what it would take for that to happen.

By all means though, if we could do so I'd move Carr for a first if the pick was high enough to draft a replacement that we could have for 5 years with a low cap figure.

It would probably cost somewhere around 30 million, but we would go from Carr at 10/yr down to a guy like Dre at closer to 5.

Dre and Soliai for the pride of just Carr?

I'd do it.

mcaj22
02-14-2012, 02:46 PM
ROFL

Ummmm, no.

...

Mcaj22....I'm not talking about stats.

I'm talking about PFF player rankings.

Two COMPLETELY different things.


right, but you have to consider the factors

Routt got to play alongside one of the best man cover press CBs in the game when Routt had his "best" PFF ranking season

Carr has never played opposite of someone like Nnamdi, and if he did, I am sure he would look like a god too and have a really inflated PFF ranking for that season.

Pestilence
02-14-2012, 02:47 PM
If they're going to let Carr go....then they need to hurry up and sign Bowe to a contract so that they can slap the tag on Carr.

3rd&48ers
02-14-2012, 04:42 PM
If the Chiefs are 60 million under the cap that actually means they are 100 million under because they could easily rework contracts... but they won't because they are cheap and the stands are full and I am glad

Mr. Laz
02-14-2012, 04:50 PM
If the Chiefs are 60 million under the cap that actually means they are 100 million under because they could easily rework contracts... but they won't because they are cheap and the stands are full and I am glad
nice post, trollboy

:Poke:

Rausch
02-14-2012, 04:53 PM
The question here is why do we need to let anyone walk when we need to spend a ****ton of cash this offseason?

I just don't get it.

Completely agree.

Not only should both be back but we should be adding FA's as well this offseason...

Brock
02-14-2012, 04:53 PM
If the Chiefs are 60 million under the cap that actually means they are 100 million under because they could easily rework contracts... but they won't because they are cheap and the stands are full and I am glad

Have fun with the rebuild.

Mr. Laz
02-14-2012, 05:05 PM
Completely agree.

Not only should both be back but we should be adding FA's as well this offseason...
no doubt, but i thought they should have been active last year too and they really weren't.

beach tribe
02-14-2012, 05:18 PM
If the Chiefs are 60 million under the cap that actually means they are 100 million under because they could easily rework contracts... but they won't because they are cheap and the stands are full and I am glad

lol you're just telling yourself that so you'll believe that the faid can afford the roster they already have. At least you can add some key pieces with your high draft picks...oh wait.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 05:38 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/423/973/103395853_display_image.jpg?1286075009 http://thecovertwo.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/eric-berry-chiefs.jpg http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/037/995/103396178_display_image.jpg?1308712220 http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/860/732/82797486_display_image.jpg?1302788173

I see a lot of SWAG in our secondary.

tredadda
02-14-2012, 05:44 PM
Flowers-Berry-Lewis-Routt really isn't a bad secondary and if Houston plays like he did like the last month the defense will be top 10.

Flowers-Berry-Lewis-Carr is much, much better

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 05:47 PM
You guys are acting like Brandon Carr is like a Darrell Revis or something... HE isn't that good. Switching from Carr to Routt won't be a big deal... IF there is one resigning you should be worrying about... It's Bowe's.

beach tribe
02-14-2012, 05:49 PM
You guys are acting like Brandon Carr is like a Darrell Revis or something... HE isn't that good. Switching from Carr to Routt won't be a big deal... IF there is one resigning you should be worrying about... It's Bowe's.

Wrong. Carr is as stud, and he's gonna be paid like one.

Pestilence
02-14-2012, 05:49 PM
http://www.kansascitykc.com/chiefs/brandon-flowers/brandon-flowers-chiefs.jpg http://biographyplayers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/eric-berry1.jpg http://takingit2thehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/landry1.jpg http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c1910342/media_center/images/rendered/blog/wysiwyg/480101024093JaguarsatChiefs.jpg

Pestilence
02-14-2012, 05:49 PM
You guys are acting like Brandon Carr is like a Darrell Revis or something... HE isn't that good. Switching from Carr to Routt won't be a big deal... IF there is one resigning you should be worrying about... It's Bowe's.

We have the money to pay for both.

slapnutz_4
02-14-2012, 05:49 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/423/973/103395853_display_image.jpg?1286075009 http://thecovertwo.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/eric-berry-chiefs.jpg http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/037/995/103396178_display_image.jpg?1308712220 http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/860/732/82797486_display_image.jpg?1302788173

I see a lot of SWAG in our secondary.

who is #49 looks like lewis but i thought lewis was #23

tredadda
02-14-2012, 05:50 PM
You guys are acting like Brandon Carr is like a Darrell Revis or something... HE isn't that good. Switching from Carr to Routt won't be a big deal... IF there is one resigning you should be worrying about... It's Bowe's.

Yes he is, and yes we should also resign Bowe. We can afford both, and still get a couple of high priced FAs.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 05:53 PM
who is #49 looks like lewis but i thought lewis was #23

It is Lewis... He had a number switch.

I'm all for re signing Carr and both Bowe... BUT if we end up letting Carr walk and signing Routt... I'm not going to throw a hissy fit over it because Routt is a great corner.

jd1020
02-14-2012, 05:53 PM
Gotta love all the people shitting on Pioli for having a plan B.

What we know:

- Carr is going to hit FA as an Unrestricted Free Agent.
- The Chiefs have made it clear that they've planned on this happening and have made sure to have enough cap space to sign both Carr and Bowe.
- The Chiefs have made it clear that Carr and Bowe are priority #1.

So who cares if they've talked to Routt. He is plan B, and a pretty good one, if the worst case scenario happens and we can't reach an agreement with Carr, or someone outbids us.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 05:54 PM
Gotta love all the people shitting on Pioli for having a plan B.

What we know:

- Carr is going to hit FA as an Unrestricted Free Agent.
- The Chiefs have made it clear that they've planned on this happening and have made sure to have enough cap space to sign both Carr and Bowe.
- The Chiefs have made it clear that Carr and Bowe are priority #1.

So who cares if they've talked to Routt. He is plan B, and a pretty good one, if the worst case scenario happens and we can't reach an agreement with Carr, or someone outbids us.

This. Everyone is feeling a little trigger happy.

Tribal Warfare
02-14-2012, 06:06 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2KEq0nnVA04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

WhiteWhale
02-14-2012, 06:11 PM
It is Lewis... He had a number switch.

I'm all for re signing Carr and both Bowe... BUT if we end up letting Carr walk and signing Routt... I'm not going to throw a hissy fit over it because Routt is a great corner.

Nothing says 'great corner' like leading the league in penalties and touchdowns allowed.

Okie_Apparition
02-14-2012, 06:12 PM
He will always be #2 in KC
Don't blame him if he wants out

WhiteWhale
02-14-2012, 06:14 PM
He will always be #2 in KC
Don't blame him if he wants out

#1 and #2 means nothing in our defense.

We have a RCB and an LCB. They don't flip sides, and they don't follow match-ups.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:17 PM
Nothing says 'great corner' like leading the league in penalties and touchdowns allowed.

He was picked on. Raiders had a joke of a secondary. Ofcourse he isn't going to have a good year when you are the only good d back on your team. Let's look back to a year that would be a lot similiar to our situation coming up. He was a Top 5 Corner when he had talent surrounding him... Nnamdi.

Okie_Apparition
02-14-2012, 06:19 PM
Right

BigMeatballDave
02-14-2012, 06:21 PM
Several dumbasses in this thread thinking losing Carr is not that big of a deal.

Fist yourselves.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:23 PM
Several dumbasses in this thread thinking losing Carr is not that big of a deal.

Fist yourselves.

OMG!!! Brandon Carr is so ****ing good!!!! We should build a memorial for him because he is the best corner in the leeeeeeeeeagggueee!
:clap:

O.city
02-14-2012, 06:26 PM
Carr is every bit as good a cb as bowe is wr maybe even better. Losing either one with the money we have is unacceptable. That said I think they both are chiefs next year

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:29 PM
Ofcourse they are Chiefs next year... Crennel is smart enough not to let them go and he will play a big role in trying to re sign them... Pioli has to listen to Crennel.

xztop12
02-14-2012, 06:31 PM
Routt has been left on an island for the majority of his NFL career. We don't have a single cb on the roster that can be left on an island the way Oakland does with their cb's... maybe if we're playing against a really slow WR team like NE

Carr is/was and will be a terrible corner at defending hitch/comeback routes. He is a guy who always gives a large cushion and is a limiting factor to the defenses we can play to some extent. Having said that, his ball skills are tremendous, and he defends the deep ball as well as anyone in the league

philfree
02-14-2012, 06:33 PM
I just don't see Clark shelling out 15-20 million dollars in cash for a pick or two and then have to pay another upfront bonus to another first round pick.
Thats essentially what it would take for that to happen.

By all means though, if we could do so I'd move Carr for a first if the pick was high enough to draft a replacement that we could have for 5 years with a low cap figure.

It would probably cost somewhere around 30 million, but we would go from Carr at 10/yr down to a guy like Dre at closer to 5.

Dre and Soliai for the pride of just Carr?

I'd do it.

Did the Franchise Tag rules change with the new CBA? I didn't think so but I could be wrong.

I don't think you understand the franchise tag rules correctly. Well unless they changed with the new CBA.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:35 PM
Routt is and has been left on an island for the majority of his NFL career. We don't have a single cb on the roster that can be left on an island the way Oakland does with their cb's... maybe if we're playing against a really slow WR team like NE

<a href="http://s838.photobucket.com/albums/zz302/NFLWallpaperZone/New-York-Jets-Wallpaper/?action=view&amp;current=RevisIsland-Wallpaper.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz302/NFLWallpaperZone/New-York-Jets-Wallpaper/RevisIsland-Wallpaper.jpg" border="0" alt="Revis Island Wallpaper, Darrelle Revis Wallpaper @ http://nflwallpaperzone.blogspot.com"></a>

xztop12
02-14-2012, 06:38 PM
This is another scenario where this message board mistakenly evaluates guys as better Vs worse, and not in terms of strengths/weakness of the individual player.

Bowser
02-14-2012, 06:40 PM
Well, considering the D played a helluva lot better when the Corners began playing man and Romeo started Blitzing, yeah, i'd say two high priced Corners should be on the Menu, especially when they're your own.

No excuses. They should be able to keep both AND upgrade the roster.

I just can't settle for less and be satisfied.

Especially knowing that they still plan on rolling out Matt Cassel.

You have two DBs who can play man against anybody all day long. Both of these guys will play through injury and pain at a high level.

Yet, you want to give one of them up to FA? Insane.

FAX

These needed to be quoted.


And the bottom line is that there is no reason this team doesn't have Carr and Bowe both on it next season. None. Add in another couple or three name FAs to that list, too.

And piss on Routt. He shined when he was playing across from Nnamdi, and looked like the average guy he is when he wasn't.

BigRock
02-14-2012, 06:41 PM
I never saw anything about Bowe shooting it down. Do you recall the writer?

I believe it was Jim Trotter. About a week ago he tweeted about a conversation he had with Bowe. Regarding Haley, Bowe said he liked him and had just spoken to him. He said he and Todd had their issues during Haley's first year, but nothing since then.

Someone pointed this out to Nick Wright and how it blew up his story about a Haley/Bowe rift. Wright said he thinks he had the overall story right, just not the timeline. Ooookay.

So if you give Nick the benefit of the doubt (which there's really no reason to), the incident he described between Haley and Bowe presumably could have happened back in Todd's first year. But the part about it impacting Bowe's contract negotiations would fall by the wayside.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:42 PM
These needed to be quoted.


And the bottom line is that there is no reason this team doesn't have Carr and Bowe both on it next season. None. Add in another couple or three name FAs to that list, too.

And piss on Routt. He shined when he was playing across from Nnamdi, and looked like the average guy he is when he wasn't.[/

ROFL

Moron...

the Talking Can
02-14-2012, 06:42 PM
Routt has been left on an island for the majority of his NFL career. We don't have a single cb on the roster that can be left on an island the way Oakland does with their cb's... maybe if we're playing against a really slow WR team like NE


jesus tap dancing christ...


make it stop

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:44 PM
This is another scenario where this message board mistakenly evaluates guys as better Vs worse, and not in terms of strengths/weakness of the individual player.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS AND ****ING THIS!

Bowser
02-14-2012, 06:45 PM
ROFL

Moron...

Just because you have a Florida sized boner for the guy doesn't make that statement untrue.

You want to replace Carr with a guy that
a) is three years older
b) led the league in touchdowns allowed
c) led the league in PI penalties

That's fucking brilliant, you clam.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:47 PM
Just because you have a Florida sized boner for the guy doesn't make that statement untrue.

You want to replace Carr with a guy that
a) is three years older
b) led the league in touchdowns allowed
c) led the league in PI penalties

That's ****ing brilliant, you clam.

I NEVER said I WANTED to replace him... IF IT CAME to letting Carr go... This is our best choice... READ YOU ****ING NUB!

Bowser
02-14-2012, 06:49 PM
I NEVER said I WANTED to replace him... IF IT CAME to letting Carr go... This is our best choice... READ YOU ****ING NUB!

Which is exactly why we should NOT let Carr go. Hes way better compared to what they bring in to replace him here.

If Carr walks, they're not going to be able to replace him. They were idiots to not re-sign him last season (although Carr himself may have opted not to).

If Carr is gone, it's just another fuckup by Pioli.

WhiteWhale
02-14-2012, 06:52 PM
He was picked on. Raiders had a joke of a secondary. Ofcourse he isn't going to have a good year when you are the only good d back on your team. Let's look back to a year that would be a lot similiar to our situation coming up. He was a Top 5 Corner when he had talent surrounding him... Nnamdi.

He sucked when Aso was on the team too.

2011 - 1st in penalties
2010- 2nd in penalties
2011 - 1st in penalties.

Routt was never a top 40 corner, let alone top 5. 2011 was his best season as well. You're just making stuff up.

Bowser
02-14-2012, 06:53 PM
Now, if Routt wants to come here and be our nickle/dime guy with Arenas, I'd be good with that.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:54 PM
Which is exactly why we should NOT let Carr go. Hes way better compared to what they bring in to replace him here.

If Carr walks, they're not going to be able to replace him. They were idiots to not re-sign him last season (although Carr himself may have opted not to).

If Carr is gone, it's just another ****up by Pioli.

He was barely above average the year before.... What I'm trying to say is... Routt is almost on Carr's level so it's not like we are going to shoot our selves in the foot but rather our pinkie.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:55 PM
He sucked when Aso was on the team too.

2011 - 1st in penalties
2010- 2nd in penalties
2011 - 1st in penalties.

Routt was never a top 40 corner, let alone top 5. 2011 was his best season as well. You're just making stuff up.

He got demoted in 2010 for a reason.

Links... Or GTFO.

WhiteWhale
02-14-2012, 06:58 PM
Links... Or GTFO.

Do your own legwork.. Find it yourself just like I did. I'm not your google.

If you want to discredit something because of your own ignorance, I don't care. I'm right. You're wrong.

All the facts are on my side. All you have is stuff you're making up backed up by no empirical evidence what-so-ever.

Bowser
02-14-2012, 06:58 PM
He was barely above average the year before.... What I'm trying to say is... Routt is almost on Carr's level so it's not like we are going to shoot our selves in the foot but rather our pinkie.

I guess that's the problem I'm having with this entire conversation - We don't need to shoot ourselves anywhere. We have more than enough cap space for Carr, Bowe, Routt, Solail (or however you spell it), Nicks, and any draft picks. Add to the fact that Carr is 25 and plays on the level he does, it means you don't let him walk.

Seems simple to me, anyway.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 06:59 PM
Do your own legwork.. Find it yourself just like I did.

If you want to discredit something because of your own ignorance, I don't care. I'm right. You're wrong.

All the facts are on my side. All you have is stuff you're making up backed up by no empirical evidence what-so-ever.

You sound like the ignorant one... :spock:

WhiteWhale
02-14-2012, 07:00 PM
You sound like the ignorant one... :spock:

Yes... the one with facts is ignorant and the one speaking baseless opinion is in the know.

Okay champ.

Saying stuff doesn't make it true, even if you want it to.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 07:06 PM
I guess that's the problem I'm having with this entire conversation - We don't need to shoot ourselves anywhere. We have more than enough cap space for Carr, Bowe, Routt, Solail (or however you spell it), Nicks, and any draft picks. Add to the fact that Carr is 25 and plays on the level he does, it means you don't let him walk.

Seems simple to me, anyway.

You know... I got to thinking about that... Keeping Carr and also getting Routt and maybe Landry... Flowers, Carr, Routt, Arenas, Berry, Lewis/Landry... We would for sure be the best d in the league.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 07:08 PM
Yes... the one with facts is ignorant and the one speaking baseless opinion is in the know.

Okay champ.

Saying stuff doesn't make it true, even if you want it to.

Oh.. My bad... TOP 11 CB in 2011... http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/23050/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-cornerbacks

Champ.

FAX
02-14-2012, 07:10 PM
Okay, riddle me this ...

Why, if Routt is so good, is the Faid letting him walk after A) Giving him a nice, fat contract just a year ago and B) Routt agreed to restructure his deal to help the Faid with their cap?

Why, oh why?

FAX

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 07:12 PM
Okay, riddle me this ...

Why, if Routt is so good, is the Faid letting him walk after A) Giving him a nice, fat contract just a year ago and B) Routt agreed to restructure his deal to help the Faid with their cap?

Why, oh why?

FAX

Because since when did the Raider's actually want to win?

FAX
02-14-2012, 07:14 PM
Because since when did the Raider's actually want to win?

ROFL

Great.

I'm serious, though. What's up with this guy? People actually think he compares favorably to Carr, but why would he be having difficulty staying with his current team? Especially when he was willing to cut them a deal?

FAX

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 07:16 PM
ROFL

Great.

I'm serious, though. What's up with this guy? People actually think he compares favorably to Carr, but why would he be having difficulty staying with his current team? Especially when he was willing to cut them a deal?

FAX

All I know is... ESPN is reporting a lot of teams interested in him... Buffalo met with him on Monday and Dallas showed interest in him also.

WhiteWhale
02-14-2012, 07:32 PM
Oh.. My bad... TOP 11 CB in 2011... http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/23050/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-cornerbacks

Champ.

So your argument against my FACTS is power rankings by a bunch of suits? The same rankings that put Routt above Flowers?

Seriously?

I provide facts and you provide opinions.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 07:35 PM
So your argument against my FACTS is power rankings by a bunch of suits? The same rankings that put Routt above Flowers?

Seriously?

I provide facts and you provide opinions.

Still haven't seen these "facts" of yours...
Professionals made these PR btw... Professionals..

Brock
02-14-2012, 07:39 PM
Still haven't seen these "facts" of yours...
Professionals made these PR btw... Professionals..

Professional....bloggers.

Simplicity
02-14-2012, 07:39 PM
John Clayton.

Brock
02-14-2012, 07:40 PM
John Clayton.

You are pretty confused if you think his opinion means anything.

WhiteWhale
02-14-2012, 08:13 PM
Still haven't seen these "facts" of yours...
Professionals made these PR btw... Professionals..

Yes, I did.

Routt is a penalty machine... do you want me to tell you again how his 17 penalties led the NFL? You want me to tell you again how his 9 TD's allowed led the NFL?

All with one of the best pass rushes in the NFL playing in front of him.

While you're posting opinions. Nothing more.

It's like you don't even know the difference.

beach tribe
02-14-2012, 08:25 PM
John Clayton.

Just stop.
Power rankings? You get dumber with each post.

WhiteWhale
02-14-2012, 08:27 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/23050/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-cornerbacks



Holy shit... I just noticed that Deangelo Hall was 9th on that list and it was made before the season even started.

LMAO

Pasta Giant Meatball
02-14-2012, 09:25 PM
Routt can't hold Carr's jock. It would be a collasal failure if they let Carr go and end up with this chode.

Pasta Giant Meatball
02-14-2012, 09:27 PM
Just stop.
Power rankings? You get dumber with each post.

Seriously, using Young Cryptkeeper as a legit source for ranking talent ROFL He needs to step away from this thread.

Tribal Warfare
02-14-2012, 10:47 PM
With the Routt visit, you got to wonder if this is an indication that KC's going to franchise tag Carr

BossChief
02-14-2012, 10:47 PM
Do your own legwork.. Find it yourself just like I did. I'm not your google.

If you want to discredit something because of your own ignorance, I don't care. I'm right. You're wrong.

All the facts are on my side. All you have is stuff you're making up backed up by no empirical evidence what-so-ever.When he played across from Asomughua, PFF rated him extremely well.

That holds more water than your opinion.

Also, if you want to look at touchdowns given up as some tool...take a look at Flowers...iirc he gave up 1 less touchdown on the year than Routt.

Is he garbage?

As far as the penalty thing...go to a Raider board and ask around about the penalties. I've heard over and over that refs threw phantom penalties on he and the rest of the raiders all year. Not used if thats credible or not, but it is a widespread opinion.

Okay, riddle me this ...

Why, if Routt is so good, is the Faid letting him walk after A) Giving him a nice, fat contract just a year ago and B) Routt agreed to restructure his deal to help the Faid with their cap?

Why, oh why?

FAX
When the Raiders brought in the guy from GB, he said his first order of business was to get rid of the contracts that were "out of whack"

Routts contract was the dumbest deal I've ever seen signed in the NFL.

Iirc, it averaged something like 15 million per year.

My guess was his agents idea of a restructure was somewhere around 10 and the Raiders decided to cleanly part ways...who knows, maybe all these meetings are to find his true market value and that he intends to return to Oakland.

Who knows?

Yes, I did.

Routt is a penalty machine... do you want me to tell you again how his 17 penalties led the NFL? You want me to tell you again how his 9 TD's allowed led the NFL?

All with one of the best pass rushes in the NFL playing in front of him.

While you're posting opinions. Nothing more.

It's like you don't even know the difference.

Stats aren't everything.

Matt Cassel had 27 touchdown passes to 7 picks....does that mean he is as good as Tom Brady?

Fuck no.

As I mentioned before, Flowers gave up a lot of scores too and he is one of the best corners in football.

It happens.

Nobody here wants us to sign Routt and let Carr walk...I don't think so anyway.

All I'm saying is that Routt isn't as bad as you think he is and apperently a lot of NFL teams agree with me because just about every team with a need at corner is seemingly interested in his services...regardless of your stats.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 10:49 PM
With the Routt visit, you got to wonder if this is an indication that KC's going to franchise tag Carr

Haha what?

I gotta hear this one.

Tribal Warfare
02-14-2012, 10:58 PM
Haha what?

I gotta hear this one.

Okay, if everything is at a stand still with Carr, they'd tag him because they believe that A) Bowe is going no matter( Cassel,and a better stage to exhibit his skils, a better "night life" for a guy his age) and they think Baldwin,Breaston, Moeaki are able to pick up the slack. or B) They(Crennel) values Carr more, because of the CB FA market and the hole that would be created in the secondary because doesn't like "bidding wars" with FAs and other teams.

doomy3
02-14-2012, 11:07 PM
Okay, if everything is at a stand still with Carr, they'd tag him because they believe that A) Bowe is going no matter( Cassel,and a better stage to exhibit his skils, a better "night life" for a guy his age) and they think Baldwin,Breaston, Moeaki are able to pick up the slack. or B) They(Crennel) values Carr more, because of the CB FA market and the hole that would be created in the secondary because doesn't like "bidding wars" with FAs and other teams.

What in the hell does any of that have to do with Routt visiting?

Tribal Warfare
02-14-2012, 11:14 PM
What in the hell does any of that have to do with Routt visiting?

To see as a litmus test what other CBs are asking for and start slotting the negotiations there for the bonus given and base salary when/if he signs.

It's one scenario I've been thinking about. Hence, the term negotiating ploy has been thrown around.

Though, IMO the Chiefs don't have shit outside of the tag when it comes to leverage in the contract talks with him.

doomy3
02-14-2012, 11:18 PM
To see as a litmus test what other CBs are asking for and start slotting the negotiations there for the bonus given and base salary when/if he signs.

It's one scenario I've been thinking about.

None of your posts make sense. You think they are going to tag Carr because they brought Routt in, and give a bunch of bullshit reasons they wouldn't tag Bowe.

Then, you say that they brought him in as a "litmus test" for an extension?

Tribal Warfare
02-14-2012, 11:21 PM
None of your posts make sense. You think they are going to tag Carr because they brought Routt in, and give a bunch of bullshit reasons they wouldn't tag Bowe.

Then, you say that they brought him in as a "litmus test" for an extension?


they are both related, which has been said multiple times.

BossChief
02-14-2012, 11:26 PM
Oh, my.

My eyes and brain now hurt.

Thanks, tribal.

doomy3
02-14-2012, 11:26 PM
they are both related, which has been said multiple times.

No, they're not related. Bringing Routt in for a visit certainly doesn't mean that they are considering signing him so that they can place the franchise tag on Carr.

And your points about Bowe in your previous posts are nonsensical too. They can tag him if they want to. Who gives a shit if he wants to go somewhere with better nightlife or whatever other shit you're making up. They can franchise him and control him.

Tribal Warfare
02-14-2012, 11:54 PM
No, they're not related. Bringing Routt in for a visit certainly doesn't mean that they are considering signing him so that they can place the franchise tag on Carr.

And your points about Bowe in your previous posts are nonsensical too. They can tag him if they want to. Who gives a shit if he wants to go somewhere with better nightlife or whatever other shit you're making up. They can franchise him and control him.

The straight forward scenario is they are looking for a replacement for Carr and tagging Bowe This one is more likely, but the other thing might play out too.

Just looking at all the possible angles.

BossChief
02-15-2012, 12:09 AM
I need a fuzzy wall.

Tribal Warfare
02-15-2012, 12:20 AM
I need a fuzzy wall.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqr07dBxgo1r02frao1_500.gif

BigMeatballDave
02-15-2012, 02:18 AM
OMG!!! Brandon Carr is so ****ing good!!!! We should build a memorial for him because he is the best corner in the leeeeeeeeeagggueee!
:clap:

Tard

htismaqe
02-15-2012, 06:49 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqr07dBxgo1r02frao1_500.gif

ROFL

What's funny is that my actual first name is Jeffrey. :D

milkman
02-15-2012, 06:58 AM
Tribal Warfare is a fucking idiot.

htismaqe
02-15-2012, 07:02 AM
Tribal Warfare is a ****ing idiot.

Stop it, Grumps. Get along. :)

ChiefsandO'sfan
02-15-2012, 07:19 AM
Jason La Canfora@JasonLaCanforaReply

Stanford Routt remains in KC for second day of meetings with Chiefs. Still talking to Bills and scheduled to visit Bengals Fri #insideslant

Mr_Tomahawk
02-15-2012, 07:48 AM
Free Agent Stanford Routt Remains In KC Another Day
by Joel Thorman on Feb 15, 2012 8:46 AM CST


0 COMMENTS EMAIL PRINT

Ed Zurga - APMore photos »
The curious case of Stanford Routt and the Kansas City Chiefs continues. Routt, who is now a free agent after being released by the Oakland Raiders, visited the Buffalo Bills on Monday and that was followed by a trip to KC on Tuesday.

And Routt remains in KC another day.

NFL Network's Jason La Canfora reports Routt is still in KC on Wednesday for a second day of meetings. I'm not sure if this is a new development or if the meeting was initially scheduled for two days. Routt is also scheduled to visit the Cincinnati Bengals later this week. (No word on the reported interest of about a half dozen other teams.)



Interesting stuff. The obvious connection with this is that Chiefs CB Brandon Carr is scheduled for free agency. Are the Chiefs considering moving on from Carr and signing Routt? Or are they simply doing some due diligence just in case?

My guess is that this is just some due diligence on the Chiefs part. The Chiefs probably realize they need to have a backup plan ready just in case Carr doesn't sign and, really, that's what's concerning to me. I take the interest in Routt as a sign that the Chiefs think there's a chance -- maybe just a small one but still a chance -- they could lose Carr in free agency. I hope that doesn't happen.

I'll also stand by my earlier stance that it doesn't make sense for KC to sign Routt quickly. He's the top player on the market (until March 13) which means his value is probably inflated right now.

We shall see...

doomy3
02-15-2012, 07:52 AM
Jason La Canfora@JasonLaCanforaReply

Stanford Routt remains in KC for second day of meetings with Chiefs. Still talking to Bills and scheduled to visit Bengals Fri #insideslant

This must mean that the Chiefs will franchise Carr! Bowe wants better dance clubs for someone his age, so it's the only thing that makes sense.

suds79
02-15-2012, 07:54 AM
We really need Routt to get out of town asap. Want the Chiefs to have little to no options left but to sign Carr. (I know it's probably wishful thinking)

ForeverChiefs58
02-15-2012, 07:54 AM
I would hope the only reason to go after a guy like that is for 3rd corner since so many teams use 3 or 4 WR sets, for nickle packages, or extra depth.

Although, Pioli did spend a 2nd rd pick on Arenas who I thought played pretty darn good.

With holes at QB, OL, NT, ILB, RB, TE, S, I am surprised their first order of business is to address CB.

No need to create more holes, Carr and Bowe should have already been signed before now, and we should be looking at other all pro FA to fill other needs.

htismaqe
02-15-2012, 08:02 AM
I'd like to think they have a good plan with all of this but I'm just more inclined to think they're either trying to strong-arm Carr or are already moving on without him.

doomy3
02-15-2012, 08:06 AM
I'd like to think they have a good plan with all of this but I'm just more inclined to think they're either trying to strong-arm Carr or are already moving on without him.

Yeah, I think it has to be one of these things. Or maybe they think Routt can play FS? He's a good tackler and can cover a lot of field. More than likely though, this probably means they are either moving on from Carr for some stupid reason, or trying to use this as a negotiating ploy, which is probably not going to work.

Brock
02-15-2012, 08:06 AM
I'd like to think they have a good plan with all of this but I'm just more inclined to think they're either trying to strong-arm Carr or are already moving on without him.

They're moving on. JMO

Rausch
02-15-2012, 08:09 AM
They're moving on. JMO

:mad:

FAX
02-15-2012, 08:12 AM
They're moving on. JMO

Damn, dude.

That's a cheery thought.

FAX

FAX
02-15-2012, 08:13 AM
Yeah, I think it has to be one of these things. Or maybe they think Routt can play FS? He's a good tackler and can cover a lot of field. More than likely though, this probably means they are either moving on from Carr for some stupid reason, or trying to use this as a negotiating ploy, which is probably not going to work.

This was my hope. Depth, maybe?

FAX

ForeverChiefs58
02-15-2012, 08:17 AM
Unless Pioli wants fans to hate him with Carl-like proportions, he better keep the good players we already had on the roster when he got here, and start filling holes we actually have had for way too many years.

Easy 6
02-15-2012, 08:19 AM
I really dont want to hear about Routt or any other cb, with a guy of Carrs age & talent already in house, not to mention all of the cap room available... it makes no sense at all.

If Pioli dicks around with the talented young core of this team this year, it just proves to me that he's outhinking himself in trying to prove his managerial genius.

Its time to spend good money on a big push this year, its NOT time to save for the future... the future is now.

doomy3
02-15-2012, 08:19 AM
Unless Pioli wants fans to hate him with Carl-like proportions, he better keep the good players we already had on the roster when he got here, and start filling holes we actually have had for way too many years.

He really has been keeping the good players. Hali, Charles, DJ, Flowers... That's why this Carr thing doesn't make sense on the surface.

Chiefs Pantalones
02-15-2012, 08:20 AM
If we let Carr and/or Bowe walk then Pioli needs to get his ass kicked.

FAX
02-15-2012, 08:26 AM
It makes no sense. Unless they feel like they don't want to overspend on the defensive backfield?

On the other hand ... we know that one of those guys will get franchised, right? So, let's think about this ...

If I were GM, I would keep that ace up my sleeve (the franchise card, I mean). Then, I would negotiate with both players in the hope that the best deal emerges given their respective position, contribution, age, etc. Then, once I have a deal (either with Bowe or Carr), I sign it and franchise the other dude. Boom. Done. Meanwhile, I keep all options open and talk with every FA I can get my hands on who's worth a damn because we need depth practically everywhere regardless of Bowe and Carr. These conversations also help narrow down the draft board.

That makes sense, I think.

FAX

KC Tattoo
02-15-2012, 08:29 AM
It makes no sense. Unless they feel like they don't want to overspend on the defensive backfield?

On the other hand ... we know that one of those guys will get franchised, right? So, let's think about this ...

If I were GM, I would keep that ace up my sleeve (the franchise card, I mean). Then, I would negotiate with both players in the hope that the best deal emerges given their respective position, contribution, age, etc. Then, once I have a deal (either with Bowe or Carr), I sign it and franchise the other dude. Boom. Done. Meanwhile, I keep all options open and talk with every FA I can get my hands on who's worth a damn because we need depth practically everywhere regardless of Bowe and Carr. These conversations also help narrow down the draft board.

That makes sense, I think.

FAX

Brilliant Mr. FAX just freaking brilliant. You should be GM already.

YayMike
02-15-2012, 08:29 AM
Could we sign him, and Carr push Javi to FS? (Has he played there before) Flowers, Carr and Routt are a nasty ass trio at CB.

-King-
02-15-2012, 08:33 AM
Could we sign him, and Carr push Javi to FS? (Has he played there before) Flowers, Carr and Routt are a nasty ass trio at CB.

Lewis is a good FS and Javier is a good nickel. We don't need Routt at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rausch
02-15-2012, 08:35 AM
Lewis is a good FS and Javier is a good nickel. We don't need Routt at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

Lewis is very good and getting better every game.

Hell no to replacing/moving him...

The Poz
02-15-2012, 08:37 AM
Is it not possible that Carr wants to leave? He must know that if he hits free agency he'll make a boat load of money and even get the title of #1 CB on a handful of teams rather be the #2 guy here.
Maybe he expressed this to management so they need to cover their asses.
Just a theory.

YayMike
02-15-2012, 08:38 AM
Lewis is a good FS and Javier is a good nickel. We don't need Routt at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

I agree, I was just playing devil's advocate.

Continuing with the trend, if we signed Routt and franchised Carr to use as trade bait to move up in the draft for RGIII would more people be on board with this? I'm really reaching here to try to understand why the hell he is still in KC

Rausch
02-15-2012, 08:39 AM
Is it not possible that Carr wants to leave? He must know that if he hits free agency he'll make a boat load of money and even get the title of #1 CB on a handful of teams rather be the #2 guy here.
Maybe he expressed this to management so they need to cover their asses.
Just a theory.

He's not a fucking no 2.

We don't have a no 2.

We don't have a no 1.

What he wants is to be paid like a no 1 and stay, IMO.

IMO I think he should get what he wants...

KC Tattoo
02-15-2012, 08:44 AM
Lewis is a good FS and Javier is a good nickel. We don't need Routt at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

Depth is the only thing we can use him for. Need to pay Bowe & Carr and continue to build this damn team through the draft.

DRAFT a Fucking quarterback in the first round. Trade up if need be but get us a QB & let him & Stanzi battle it out for compitition purpose. Letting them get the majority of reps in practice & preseason. This isn't rocket science it's NFL football and we are the only team in NFL to go 30 years without drafting a QB in the first round. Fucking dumb team I love.

Chiefshrink
02-15-2012, 08:54 AM
Pioli is playing poker with Carr's agent IMO.

Mr_Tomahawk
02-15-2012, 08:58 AM
FWIW....Standford Routt was todays "30 for 30 FA"...don't think another article needs to be posted on him.

TRR
02-15-2012, 09:12 AM
Lewis is a good FS and Javier is a good nickel. We don't need Routt at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

We don't need Routt at all?

Arenas returns punts/kicks as well and usually gets nicked during the season as does Flowers. There isn't much depth behind them as Daniels and Brown are very average at best. In this league you are consistently facing 3-4 WR sets and TE's that run like WR's. I would love to have Carr and Routt.
Posted via Mobile Device

lostcause
02-15-2012, 09:55 AM
I agree with this sentiment. Although the Eagles did get gutted by the run last year, I think their idea of having three top notch corners is the best defensive ploy you can have in this new breed of NFL with all the pass happy offenses, especially if you only have one elite pass-rusher.

If we could sign Routt and Carr, this defensive backfield woud be sik.

We don't need Routt at all?

Arenas returns punts/kicks as well and usually gets nicked during the season as does Flowers. There isn't much depth behind them as Daniels and Brown are very average at best. In this league you are consistently facing 3-4 WR sets and TE's that run like WR's. I would love to have Carr and Routt.
Posted via Mobile Device

Chiefnj2
02-15-2012, 10:10 AM
What stops an elite passing attack is being able to generate a rush with 4.

Pestilence
02-15-2012, 10:11 AM
So let me get this straight.

Backup QB who has never played a down for you = $60 million contract no questions asked.

Stud CB who has played since his rookie year = Play hard ball.

Chiefs Pantalones
02-15-2012, 10:14 AM
Routt gave up 8 tds and was one of the most penalized CBs last year.

Okie_Apparition
02-15-2012, 10:17 AM
Hopefully Pioli learned from the Palko disaster
No postion or situation should taken for granted
BOYSCOUTS' MOTTO ACTIVATE

Okie_Apparition
02-15-2012, 10:21 AM
Is it not possible that Carr wants to leave? He must know that if he hits free agency he'll make a boat load of money and even get the title of #1 CB on a handful of teams rather be the #2 guy here.
Maybe he expressed this to management so they need to cover their asses.
Just a theory.

Don't be silly, ego has nothing to do with a player's drive
& the Chiefs are a wonderful organization to marry to
Just read thread after thread of their wonders on CP

ForeverChiefs58
02-15-2012, 10:26 AM
A few things I thought were interesting is Routt is almost 30 yrs old, was drafted in 2005, but only became a starter the last two years and last year led the NFL in pass interference flags (7).

He only has 10 career INT's including 2 by the Chiefs both at Arrowhead.

After only being a starter for 1 year, Al Davis signed him to a 5 year $54.5 million contract extension (20 million guaranteed)

Last year he made $10 million and was only behind Seymour $15 mil, and Palmer $11.5 mil as the highest paid on the Raider roster.

ForeverChiefs58
02-15-2012, 10:36 AM
Stanford Routt

2005 - 0 INTS
2006 - 1 INT
2007 - 3 INT
2008 - 0 INT
2009 - 0 INT
2010 - 2 INT
2011 - 4 INT

htismaqe
02-15-2012, 10:37 AM
Petro has said a couple of times today that he's hearing Carr is asking for SIGNIFICANTLY more money than the Chiefs gave Flowers...

Mr_Tomahawk
02-15-2012, 10:38 AM
Petro has said a couple of times today that he's hearing Carr is asking for SIGNIFICANTLY more money than the Chiefs gave Flowers...

Fug. That.

Pestilence
02-15-2012, 10:39 AM
Petro has said a couple of times today that he's hearing Carr is asking for SIGNIFICANTLY more money than the Chiefs gave Flowers...

And honestly.....I don't fucking care. We're $60+ under the cap. Front load the shit out of the contract so it doesn't bite you in the ass after a couple of years.

What I don't get is....is if the rumors of Bowe wanting Holmes money.....why isn't he signed? Bowe is easily worth 5 years, $45 million. And if you sign Bowe....you can franchise Carr.

suds79
02-15-2012, 10:42 AM
And honestly.....I don't ****ing care. We're $60+ under the cap. Front load the shit out of the contract so it doesn't bite you in the ass after a couple of years.

This a million times. Who gives a sh!t. The team has been cheap and now it's time to start spending. Pay the man.

They can easily set it up to where the cap hit is largely (if not all) this next year. There's no down side.

boogblaster
02-15-2012, 10:42 AM
we have the money .. sign Carr .. F Runt ......

Okie_Apparition
02-15-2012, 10:43 AM
Flowers has the senority, Berry has the draft status
Carr is an after thought in KC
Highest paid maybe his niche

Micjones
02-15-2012, 10:45 AM
Petro has said a couple of times today that he's hearing Carr is asking for SIGNIFICANTLY more money than the Chiefs gave Flowers...

That could mean $5 million. It could mean $10 million.
If it's closer to the former...I do the deal.
If it's closer to the latter...I might consider signing Routt.

The fact that we have the money to spend hardly means we oughta make a bad deal.

ForeverChiefs58
02-15-2012, 10:45 AM
And honestly.....I don't fucking care. We're $60+ under the cap. Front load the shit out of the contract so it doesn't bite you in the ass after a couple of years.

What I don't get is....is if the rumors of Bowe wanting Holmes money.....why isn't he signed? Bowe is easily worth 5 years, $45 million. And if you sign Bowe....you can franchise Carr.

I would have to agree with this as well. He doesn't mind paying Cassel $60 mil, and it sure beats the money just sitting in Hunt's bank and NOT being used to help the team.

Pestilence
02-15-2012, 10:46 AM
Flowers got Five years and $50 million, with $22 million guaranteed.

So is Carr looking for something in the range of 5-6 years and $70 million?

suds79
02-15-2012, 10:48 AM
It just sickens me to think that when you're 60 mil under the cap, have no (or have never shown) any intentions of getting anywhere near the top of the cap, you'd let a stud player like Carr go in favor for a significantly lesser player in Routt because he's cheaper.

We've officially become the Royals if this happens.

Detoxing
02-15-2012, 10:50 AM
Flowers got Five years and $50 million, with $22 million guaranteed.

So is Carr looking for something in the range of 5-6 years and $70 million?

Would that make him the highest paid DB in the league?

Remember the Carr tweet regarding asking for to much? "Does that sound like something i'd do?" (something like that anyway).

Detoxing
02-15-2012, 10:50 AM
It just sickens me to think that when you're 60 mil under the cap, have no (or have never shown) any intentions of getting anywhere near the top of the cap, you'd let a stud player like Carr go in favor for a significantly lesser player in Routt because he's cheaper.

We've officially become the Royals if this happens.

Yup.

And we'll likely see him go to some other team for 50-60 Million.

ForeverChiefs58
02-15-2012, 10:53 AM
Flowers got Five years and $50 million, with $22 million guaranteed.

So is Carr looking for something in the range of 5-6 years and $70 million?

I would imagine he is looking along the same as what Routt signed two years ago: 5 year $54.5 million contract with 20 million guaranteed.

Pestilence
02-15-2012, 10:55 AM
Carr should be paid somewhere between Flowers and Asomugha.

Flowers got 5 years and $50 million with $22 guaranteed.

Asomugha agreed to a five-year, $60 million deal, and at least $25 million guaranteed