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View Full Version : Obama Sun may be setting on another Obama Solar Project


HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 09:19 AM
Man, Barak needs to stick with law. His record as an investor really sucks.


(LA Times) — One of California’s showcase solar energy projects, under construction in the desert east of Los Angeles, is being threatened by a deadly outbreak of distemper among kit foxes and the discovery of a prehistoric human settlement on the work site.

The $1-billion Genesis Solar Energy Project has been expedited by state and federal regulatory agencies that are eager to demonstrate that the nation can build solar plants quickly to ease dependence on fossil fuels and curb global warming.

Instead, the project is providing a cautionary example of how the rush to harness solar power in the desert can go wrong — possibly costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars and dealing an embarrassing blow to the Obama administration’s solar initiative.

Genesis had hoped to be among the first of 12 approved solar farms to start operating in Southern California deserts. To do so, it had to meet certain deadlines to receive federal assistance. The 250-megwatt plant, being built on federal Bureau of Land Management land 25 miles west of Blythe, is backed by an $825-million Department of Energy loan guarantee.

Native Americans, including the leaders of a nearby reservation, are trying to have Genesis delayed or even scuttled because they say the distemper outbreak and discovery of a possible Native American cremation site show that accelerated procedures approved by state and federal regulators failed to protect wildlife and irreplaceable cultural resources.

http://weaselzippers.us/latimes.com/news/local/la-me-solar-foxes-20120211,0,4708180.story

blaise
02-14-2012, 09:27 AM
It's only money.

vailpass
02-14-2012, 09:29 AM
They won't let a billion dollar project get derailed by some sick animals and old bones. Will they?

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 09:31 AM
Do you know their failure rate?

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 09:36 AM
Do you know their failure rate?

Obamas batting about 90%

vailpass
02-14-2012, 09:36 AM
Do you know their failure rate?

To which "their" do you refer?

blaise
02-14-2012, 09:38 AM
Do you know their failure rate?

Either way this project (based on the limited information above) seems like they rushed a project and wasted money.

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 09:39 AM
Obamas batting about 90%

Better than that last I read

To which "their" do you refer?

U.S. Government, Energy Dept, Obama whatever you prefer

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 09:39 AM
BUT... You can always throw more money at a bad idea and keep it alive just a little longer...Get these puppies down where anybody can buy one pretty soon.

Obama Plans To Hike Taxpayer-Funded Subsidy On Each Chevy Volt From $7,500 To $10,000…http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/13/obama-hikes-subsidy-to-wealthy-electric-car-buyers/

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 09:42 AM
Better than that last I read






Read on, read on.

http://www.lonerepublic.com/step-aside-solyndra-the-government-has-been-pouring-billions-of-dollars-into-other-risky-energy-companies/

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 09:42 AM
Either way this project (based on the limited information above) seems like they rushed a project and wasted money.

no argument from me on that

Amnorix
02-14-2012, 09:44 AM
Obama Plans To Hike Taxpayer-Funded Subsidy On Each Chevy Volt From $7,500 To $10,000…http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/13/obama-hikes-subsidy-to-wealthy-electric-car-buyers/


JFC, that's absurd if accurate.

vailpass
02-14-2012, 09:46 AM
BUT... You can always throw more money at a bad idea and keep it alive just a little longer...Get these puppies down where anybody can buy one pretty soon.

Obama Plans To Hike Taxpayer-Funded Subsidy On Each Chevy Volt From $7,500 To $10,000…http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/13/obama-hikes-subsidy-to-wealthy-electric-car-buyers/

This had better not be true.

vailpass
02-14-2012, 09:48 AM
Didn't Captain Kirk's wife die for this project?

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 09:48 AM
This had better not be true.


Only Dirk can call me a liar.

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 09:50 AM
JFC, that's absurd if accurate.

ask GM....

http://gm-volt.com/2012/02/14/president-proposes-plug-in-subsidy-increase/

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 09:50 AM
Read on, read on.

http://www.lonerepublic.com/step-aside-solyndra-the-government-has-been-pouring-billions-of-dollars-into-other-risky-energy-companies/

1.4% fail rate. Private investments are about 70% losers

With just 1.4% of its Recovery Act clean tech investments in “losers”, it looks like the Obama administration is batting a much better average in “picking winners and losers” than the private Venture Capital (VC) market itself

vailpass
02-14-2012, 09:52 AM
1.4% fail rate. Private investments are about 70% losers

apples are not oranges.

suzzer99
02-14-2012, 09:58 AM
1.4% fail rate. Private investments are about 70% losers

LALLALALALALALALALA

I can't think of anything that seems to make ditto-heads happier than a green energy failure. I don't think I will ever understand why it makes them so positively giddy.

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 09:59 AM
apples are not oranges.

They are both fruit and they both taste good.

blaise
02-14-2012, 10:02 AM
LALLALALALALALALALA

I can't think of anything that seems to make ditto-heads happier than a green energy failure. I don't think I will ever understand why it makes them so positively giddy.

Same reason liberals seemed giddy at every bank failure and market downtown under Bush.

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 10:05 AM
LALLALALALALALALALA

I can't think of anything that seems to make ditto-heads happier than a green energy failure. I don't think I will ever understand why it makes them so positively giddy.

Because they view it as a waste of taxpayer money(in HCF case he has ODS) and I understand that POV. But that doesn't mean we should stop trying and just let the Chinese take over the clean energy market.

vailpass
02-14-2012, 10:11 AM
LALLALALALALALALALA

I can't think of anything that seems to make ditto-heads happier than a green energy failure. I don't think I will ever understand why it makes them so positively giddy.

ditto-heads?LMAO God you're a tool.

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 10:11 AM
Because they view it as a waste of taxpayer money(in HCF case he has ODS) and I understand that POV. But that doesn't mean we should stop trying and just let the Chinese take over the clean energy market.


Then we should invest in ideas that are a success. Pissing money away on every bad idea is certainly not hurting the Chicoms now is it.

Cave Johnson
02-14-2012, 10:21 AM
Same reason liberals seemed giddy at every bank failure and market downtown under Bush.

Yeah, we were literally JIMPing at the prospect of a government takeover of the banking sector. ;)

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 10:25 AM
Yeah, we were literally JIMPing at the prospect of a government takeover of the banking sector. ;)


Seems that may be the end game...

http://www.nationaljournal.com/2013-budget/financial-regulation-obama-seeks-more-funds-for-dodd-frank-agencies-20120213

President Obama bumped up his proposed budgets for the agencies charged with implementing the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial reform law. It’s wishful thinking on his part. History indicates that the agency budgets are unlikely to make it through Congress without significant cuts. Since Dodd-Frank, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Commodity Futures Trading Commission, and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau have been targets for Republican criticism – and budget cuts.

On Monday, President Obama proposed an 11 percent increase in funding for the SEC, to $1.57 billion up from $1.41 billion last year. He requested the same level of funding for the CFTC. Both the SEC and CFTC saw their budgets slashed by Congress last year, with the SEC receiving $1.3 billion and the CFTC $205 million, down from Obama’s requested $308 million.

Obama estimated that the CFPB would require $448 million in 2013, an increase of $118 million from the previous year. The CFPB is not subject to the congressional appropriations process; it is funded by the Federal Reserve and can tap up to 12 percent of the central bank’s total operating budget.

Keep reading…

KC native
02-14-2012, 10:28 AM
Great another hcf thread. I don't know whose threads are worse, pete's or hcf's.

suzzer99
02-14-2012, 10:29 AM
Same reason liberals seemed giddy at every bank failure and market downtown under Bush.

Except that never happened.

Cave Johnson
02-14-2012, 10:29 AM
Seems that may be the end game...

http://www.nationaljournal.com/2013-budget/financial-regulation-obama-seeks-more-funds-for-dodd-frank-agencies-20120213

President Obama bumped up his proposed budgets for the agencies charged with implementing the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial reform law. It’s wishful thinking on his part. History indicates that the agency budgets are unlikely to make it through Congress without significant cuts. Since Dodd-Frank, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Commodity Futures Trading Commission, and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau have been targets for Republican criticism – and budget cuts.

On Monday, President Obama proposed an 11 percent increase in funding for the SEC, to $1.57 billion up from $1.41 billion last year. He requested the same level of funding for the CFTC. Both the SEC and CFTC saw their budgets slashed by Congress last year, with the SEC receiving $1.3 billion and the CFTC $205 million, down from Obama’s requested $308 million.

Obama estimated that the CFPB would require $448 million in 2013, an increase of $118 million from the previous year. The CFPB is not subject to the congressional appropriations process; it is funded by the Federal Reserve and can tap up to 12 percent of the central bank’s total operating budget.

Keep reading…

Oversight ≠ state control.

GFC you're a paranoid lunatic. You and Killer Clown are fast becoming kissing cousins.

vailpass
02-14-2012, 10:30 AM
Great another hcf thread. I don't know whose threads are worse, pete's or hcf's.

Is it a good feeling knowing you can raise the value of a property simply by leaving?

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 10:31 AM
Oversight ≠ state control. GFC you're a paranoid lunatic.


Actually not true. Just seeing how every agency grows and power once assumed is never relinquished nor does it ever stop growing.

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 10:32 AM
Then we should invest in ideas that are a success. Pissing money away on every bad idea is certainly not hurting the Chicoms now is it.

They believe green energy is a good idea you don't. It is a difference of opinion.

A lot of people don't believe giving money to oil companies and farmers is a good idea either but we still do it.

suzzer99
02-14-2012, 10:32 AM
Because they view it as a waste of taxpayer money(in HCF case he has ODS) and I understand that POV. But that doesn't mean we should stop trying and just let the Chinese take over the clean energy market.

Do they think that every $ that goes into any kind of venture capital always pans out? You're going to have some failures if you're trying to break ground in new technology. And what better technology than one that tries to get us off foreign oil and better poised for the future?

I can understand thinking it's not the best way to spend money. But with a lot of conservatives it seems to go way deeper into a bitter, vehement hatred against anything green - one that just erupts in jubilation any time there's a failure anywhere in the entire green energy space.

Like I said it doesn't make sense to me.

KC native
02-14-2012, 10:35 AM
Do they think that every $ that goes into any kind of venture capital always pans out? You're going to have some failures if you're trying to break ground in new technology. And what better technology than one that tries to get us off foreign oil and better poised for the future?

I can understand thinking it's not the best way to spend money. But with a lot of conservatives it seems to go way deeper into a bitter, vehement hatred against anything green - one that just erupts in jubilation any time there's a failure anywhere in the entire green energy space.

Like I said it doesn't make sense to me.

Confirmation and cognitive biases galore.

KC native
02-14-2012, 10:36 AM
Is it a good feeling knowing you can raise the value of a property simply by leaving?

Is it a good feeling knowing your a racist piece of shit who is only going to get more bitter as our country's demographics change?

jiveturkey
02-14-2012, 10:39 AM
Do they think that every $ that goes into any kind of venture capital always pans out? You're going to have some failures if you're trying to break ground in new technology. And what better technology than one that tries to get us off foreign oil and better poised for the future?

I can understand thinking it's not the best way to spend money. But with a lot of conservatives it seems to go way deeper into a bitter, vehement hatred against anything green - one that just erupts in jubilation any time there's a failure anywhere in the entire green energy space.

Like I said it doesn't make sense to me.

We should sit back and wait for the Chinese or Europeans to perfect green technologies and then bitch because we're behind.

Donger
02-14-2012, 10:43 AM
We should sit back and wait for the Chinese or Europeans to perfect green technologies and then bitch because we're behind.

"Perfect green technologies"? What does that even mean?

alpha_omega
02-14-2012, 10:44 AM
I love the thread title...well done.

blaise
02-14-2012, 10:45 AM
Yeah, we were literally JIMPing at the prospect of a government takeover of the banking sector. ;)

Yes, there wasn't any rush to post about every market downtown.

blaise
02-14-2012, 10:46 AM
Except that never happened.

Yes, it did.

Cave Johnson
02-14-2012, 10:47 AM
"Perfect green technologies"? What does that even mean?

I'm sure this is just you being your typical obtuse self, but in context it means getting the cost down to a level roughly comparable with fossil fuels.

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 10:50 AM
They believe green energy is a good idea you don't. It is a difference of opinion.

A lot of people don't believe giving money to oil companies and farmers is a good idea either but we still do it.


That is not true either. Id love to see much of our energy come from renewables and technology. One can be against government involvement through waste and loans and still be a supporter of new energy ideas.


You seem like most people to have this myopic view that only good can come from government. And only good can come from efforts like loan guarantees and stimulus programs...thats simply folly.

Most farmers will tell you the programs are often a waste...no argument there from me.

patteeu
02-14-2012, 10:52 AM
Same reason liberals seemed giddy at every bank failure and market downtown under Bush.

And we shouldn't forget the joy many of them couldn't contain each time a GWoT bodycount milestone was reached.

Donger
02-14-2012, 10:52 AM
I'm sure this is just you being your typical obtuse self, but in context it means getting the cost down to a level roughly comparable with fossil fuels.

Oh. Well, that isn't going to happen.

blaise
02-14-2012, 10:55 AM
And we shouldn't forget the joy many of them couldn't contain each time a GWoT bodycount milestone was reached.

No, no, they were just pointing them out as a news story. This is different. This is celebratory. You can see the difference.
It's kind of like when people shouted at Town Hall meetings. That was hate and racism. When people are shouting at Republican candidates now, and throwing glitter. That's just having their voices heard and getting a message out. See?

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 10:55 AM
Do they think that every $ that goes into any kind of venture capital always pans out? You're going to have some failures if you're trying to break ground in new technology. And what better technology than one that tries to get us off foreign oil and better poised for the future?

I can understand thinking it's not the best way to spend money. But with a lot of conservatives it seems to go way deeper into a bitter, vehement hatred against anything green - one that just erupts in jubilation any time there's a failure anywhere in the entire green energy space.

Like I said it doesn't make sense to me.

My personal opinion is they know there will be failures but since Obama is POTUS they will bitch. They didn't care when the previous occupant did the same thing.

patteeu
02-14-2012, 10:58 AM
No, no, they were just pointing them out as a news story. This is different. This is celebratory. You can see the difference.
It's kind of like when people shouted at Town Hall meetings. That was hate and racism. When people are shouting at Republican candidates now, and throwing glitter. That's just having their voices heard and getting a message out. See?

Hell yes, I see that now. What was I thinking? Now that I'm seeing more clearly, I'm going to vote for Obama so that he can continue to unite us.

patteeu
02-14-2012, 10:59 AM
My personal opinion is they know there will be failures but since Obama is POTUS they will bitch. They didn't care when the previous occupant did the same thing.

I didn't even know the previous occupant did the same thing. You should post about it sometime. It's never too late to blame Bush.

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 11:01 AM
That is not true either. Id love to see much of our energy come from renewables and technology. One can be against government involvement through waste and loans and still be a supporter of new energy ideas.


You seem like most people to have this myopic view that only good can come from government. And only good can come from efforts like loan guarantees and stimulus programs...thats simply folly.

Most farmers will tell you the programs are often a waste...no argument there from me.

That is not true for me either. I believe government has a role and can help jumpstart ideas but I certainly don't believe only good can come from government. I believe Obama pointed out the perfect use case for this was the Internet.

dirk digler
02-14-2012, 11:09 AM
I didn't even know the previous occupant did the same thing. You should post about it sometime. It's never too late to blame Bush.

I have. hcf posted a story awhile back about an Indiana company that was going bankrupt. It came to light that Mitch Daniels as governor gave huge tax breaks to said company and Bush gave Energy money and contracts to the company.

shit happens

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 11:16 AM
That is not true for me either. I believe government has a role and can help jumpstart ideas but I certainly don't believe only good can come from government. I believe Obama pointed out the perfect use case for this was the Internet.


I thought Gore invented the Internet.

suzzer99
02-14-2012, 12:17 PM
Yes, it did.

In your head doesn't count. No one cheered bank failures the way you guys cheer green energy failures. Not even close.

suzzer99
02-14-2012, 12:20 PM
I didn't even know the previous occupant did the same thing. You should post about it sometime. It's never too late to blame Bush.

FoxNews doesn't tend to blast the story out 24-7 for weeks at a time when a republican initiative fails. So it's totally understandable that a lot of you wouldn't be informed on these things.

blaise
02-14-2012, 12:28 PM
In your head doesn't count. No one cheered bank failures the way you guys cheer green energy failures. Not even close.

Well, you're an objective observer so we should just accept your obviously unbiased opinion.

suzzer99
02-14-2012, 12:33 PM
I'm a lot more objective than most on this forum. I'm actually something of a centrist in the normal world, but that still makes me a raging leftie here.

mlyonsd
02-14-2012, 12:37 PM
We should sit back and wait for the Chinese or Europeans to perfect green technologies and then bitch because we're behind.The Chinese are only going to perfect green technologies so they can sell it to idiots like us.

Meanwhile they'll do the smart thing and produce their electricity the cheapest way possible, with coal. They aren't stupid.

patteeu
02-14-2012, 12:39 PM
I'm a lot more objective than most on this forum. I'm actually something of a centrist in the normal world, but that still makes me a raging leftie here.

I almost pointed this out about you earlier in this thread. It's good to have the voice of a dead center moderate like yourself here to keep us in line.

FD
02-14-2012, 12:42 PM
HCF, how much Federal govt money was lost on this project? Your article isn't clear.

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 01:55 PM
I'm a lot more objective than most on this forum. I'm actually something of a centrist in the normal world, but that still makes me a raging leftie here.

I gotta remember this right here.

petegz28
02-14-2012, 04:14 PM
Great another hcf thread. I don't know whose threads are worse, pete's or hcf's.

And a polite "go fuck yourself" to you, kind Sir! :evil:

HonestChieffan
02-14-2012, 04:19 PM
And a polite "go **** yourself" to you, kind Sir! :evil:

The issue is he has difficulty dealing with complex issues and polysyllabic terms. Poor little guy, let him play and build his post count.

vailpass
02-14-2012, 05:15 PM
I'm a lot more objective than most on this forum. I'm actually something of a centrist in the normal world, but that still makes me a raging leftie here.

LMAO The normal world of Kalifornia maybe.