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Cave Johnson
02-14-2012, 11:46 AM
Protect and serve, y'all.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2012/02/me-apd-and-babysitting-while-white-part.html

LiveSteam
02-14-2012, 11:56 AM
What is your point ?

mikeyis4dcats.
02-14-2012, 12:02 PM
tl:dr

Donger
02-14-2012, 12:07 PM
Protect and serve, y'all.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2012/02/me-apd-and-babysitting-while-white-part.html

I'm sure that this has only ever happened when the grandfather is White and the the granddaughter is Black... No cop would ever make sure some White grandfather is not chasing around/abducting a White granddaughter, right?

loochy
02-14-2012, 12:08 PM
Your avatar is a dog in a suit.

Cave Johnson
02-14-2012, 12:14 PM
Your avatar is a dog in a suit.

Therefore my argument is invalid?

Iowanian
02-14-2012, 12:20 PM
No, your arguments usually are invalid because of your cranial-rectal inversion. It's been more than 4hrs so you should probably go see a doctor and see if he can give you a shot for a facial priapism.

AustinChief
02-14-2012, 12:50 PM
Sucks and the cops were definitely wrong... BUT the guy lives in the middle of the HOOD. He looks like an old redneck and he's walking through the park with a 5 year old black girl... what the fuck does he expect after refusing to identify himself. I am not defending the idiot cops... but the guy is a moron as well.

listopencil
02-14-2012, 12:54 PM
Let's see. Local police receive a call because someone reported a possible kidnapping. An older man is apparently chasing a small child near a recreation center, and the two appear to be unrelated. The cops respond, investigate the situation. I would call that "doing their jobs".

Inspector
02-14-2012, 12:57 PM
2 of my grandkids don't look like me due to all the various races we mix together in my family.

Note to self: Don't chase them down out in public.

listopencil
02-14-2012, 12:58 PM
What Grandpa failed to do was explain that most of the time family members have a physical resemblance. And then he could have rationally explained the subset of physical characteristics that are interpreted as "race" in our society, and how nonsensical they are, and how little they have to do with who you are. It was a teaching moment and Grandpa blew it.

jjjayb
02-14-2012, 01:00 PM
I worked as a waiter when I was much younger than I am now. Quite frequently I'd go to one of the bars near work and have a few drinks after we closed. Rather than drive, I'd walk home as it was close to my house. I would repeatedly get stopped by the police with the usual "we got a call of suspicous activity in the area."

One night, as I was walking home, I got the usual stop. I was told of an armed robbery in the area and I matched the suspects discription. This time I was extremely agitated. I was still wearing my uniform for work. Dark slacks, dress shoes, tuxedo shirt. Not exactly dressed like a robber. I laid into the police pretty heavily. Eventually a detective showed up, looked at my shoes and said, nope, this isn't the guy and they let me go. You can imagine I was pretty livid.

The next day, I get to work and one of the cooks had a newpaper clip hanging up in the kitchen. It was a story about the robbery with a photo from the surveilance camera. Sure enough, from the grainy security footage, the robber looked EXACTLY like me. Right down to the Black slacks and white shirt. Had I not known that I hadn't robbed a store, I would have sworn that was me. It looked enough like me that the cook clipped the picture out to make fun of me.

Morale of the story, sometimes the police ARE just doing their job. Sometimes it is better to stay on the side of caution. If the police had a call about a little girl being kidnapped and did not detain this guy and he turned out to be a kidnapper, we'd all be screaming at the police.

He could have very easily avoided most of this situation if he'd not done this:

"Can I get your name, sir, just for my report?" I told her I'd prefer not to answer any questions and would like to leave, if we were free to go, so I could get the child to bed. She looked skeptical but nodded and Ty and I turned tail and walked toward home.

loochy
02-14-2012, 01:01 PM
Therefore my argument is invalid?

No, I was just saying.

LiveSteam
02-14-2012, 01:04 PM
Therefore my argument is invalid?

Yes we can

AustinChief
02-14-2012, 01:11 PM
Let's see. Local police receive a call because someone reported a possible kidnapping. An older man is apparently chasing a small child near a recreation center, and the two appear to be unrelated. The cops respond, investigate the situation. I would call that "doing their jobs".

I think they clearly overreacted and could have handled it better. I can almost guarantee their overreaction was due to him refusing to identify himself when first asked. That doesn't make it ok, but he definitely wasn't helping an aldready sketchy looking situation.

JD10367
02-14-2012, 01:12 PM
Meh. He got off easy. /CarlsJr cops

4srius, though... If the cops ask you for ID and you refuse, fuck you.

crazycoffey
02-14-2012, 01:14 PM
Sucks and the cops were definitely wrong... BUT the guy lives in the middle of the HOOD. He looks like an old redneck and he's walking through the park with a 5 year old black girl... what the fuck does he expect after refusing to identify himself. I am not defending the idiot cops... but the guy is a moron as well.


Attitude defines a lot of situations, pissed off at the cops for investigating what you know yourself looks suspicious? Beyond moronic, I don't get that. Even if you didn't think about it looking suspicious before and you get approached, I don't get the negative attitude, it's not going to help the situation at all.

listopencil
02-14-2012, 01:14 PM
I think they clearly overreacted and could have handled it better. I can almost guarantee their overreaction was due to him refusing to identify himself when first asked. That doesn't make it ok, but he definitely wasn't helping an aldready sketchy looking situation.

It's hard for me to say because we only have his side of it, and it's from an article. So he's going to play up any details that make his point of view more intriguing. But yeah, refusing to identify yourself in that situation makes things worse.

mikey23545
02-14-2012, 01:17 PM
It's difficult to say who is more stupid here - the OP or the protagonist of this non-story.

JD10367
02-14-2012, 01:19 PM
You know what prevents a misunderstanding? Understanding.

Cops are told of a possible kidnapping of a little girl. They investigate.

#1: You take a minute to provide verifying ID: there is understanding, and you walk home.

#2: You refuse to provide verifying ID: you end up handcuffed (at best) or tazed and shot (at worst).

Analysis: he's a ****ing moron.

AustinChief
02-14-2012, 01:21 PM
Meh. He got off easy. /CarlsJr cops

4srius, though... If the cops ask you for ID and you refuse, fuck you.

I disagree. You shouldn't have to identify yourself if you aren't doing anything illegal .. UNLESS in a situation like this.. they need to id you as the only legit way to know that you aren't kidnapping some random child.

The LAW in Texas is pretty clear.. http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/38.02.00.html

You only need to identify yourself if you have been arrested. Which I agree with. BUT if you don't identify, you should expect closer scrutiny of your situation... especially in a possible kidnapping case.

AustinChief
02-14-2012, 01:26 PM
Analysis: he's a ****ing moron.

No joke on this.

AustinChief
02-14-2012, 01:28 PM
It's hard for me to say because we only have his side of it, and it's from an article. So he's going to play up any details that make his point of view more intriguing. But yeah, refusing to identify yourself in that situation makes things worse.

True, I was just going off the assumption that the facts of his story were accurate, since we have only his telling to go off of.

crazycoffey
02-14-2012, 01:33 PM
I disagree. You shouldn't have to identify yourself if you aren't doing anything illegal .. UNLESS in a situation like this.. they need to id you as the only legit way to know that you aren't kidnapping some random child.

The LAW in Texas is pretty clear.. http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/38.02.00.html

You only need to identify yourself if you have been arrested. Which I agree with.


And you can be arrested for anything but speeding.

If you wanted to go that route. If someone is acting suspicious (IE, opening the glovebox with a screwdriver) in your vehicle, and I walk up on this and ask for ID to investigate this suspicious behavior. He says no, and doesn't offer any explanation to what he's doing. Are you're ok with me letting him stay in your car? How do I know he's not you and just being a prick to me?

tooge
02-14-2012, 01:39 PM
I didn't read it, but what the heck is a white person babysitting a black person for?

loochy
02-14-2012, 01:39 PM
I didn't read it, but what the heck is a white person babysitting a black person for?

English teacher?

YOU'RE THE MAN NOW, DOG!

http://cf1.imgobject.com/backdrops/2f2/4c01831e017a3c70330012f2/finding-forrester-poster.jpg

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 01:57 PM
The first cop could have insisted he show ID before sending them on their way and setting up the D-Day invasion 3 blocks later.

Fish
02-14-2012, 02:04 PM
I keep reading the title as "Babysitting Betty White".....

FAX
02-14-2012, 02:12 PM
I don't like the idea of being forced to provide your identity to a police officer when you have yet to be accused or arrested. I get the idea that police have a difficult job, but they also break peoples' knee caps with their clubs and shoot their girlfriends with their guns.

The less these people know about me, the better.

FAX

vailpass
02-14-2012, 02:12 PM
No, your arguments usually are invalid because of your cranial-rectal inversion. It's been more than 4hrs so you should probably go see a doctor and see if he can give you a shot for a facial priapism.

LMAO

Radar Chief
02-14-2012, 02:19 PM
Itís like people completely forget why we have an Amber Alert.

vailpass
02-14-2012, 02:21 PM
Itís like people completely forget why we have an Amber Alert.

Yep. Police know that in a kidnapping if they don't get the kid back within the first few hours the odds of them ever coming back alive drop dramatically. In this case the old bastard should have shown ID and cooperated. Wouldn't bother me if they were allowed to charge someone that delays a kidnapping investigation like that with interference with official acts.

MTG#10
02-14-2012, 02:23 PM
cracka-ass cracka

Chiefnj2
02-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Yep. Police know that in a kidnapping if they don't get the kid back within the first few hours the odds of them ever coming back alive drop dramatically. In this case the old bastard should have shown ID and cooperated. Wouldn't bother me if they were allowed to charge someone that delays a kidnapping investigation like that with interference with official acts.

That damn Constitution thing always gets in the way!

Predarat
02-14-2012, 02:41 PM
I keep reading the title as "Babysitting Betty White".....

Yes and now that you said that it reads even more like that.

ReynardMuldrake
02-14-2012, 02:43 PM
I disagree. You shouldn't have to identify yourself if you aren't doing anything illegal .. UNLESS in a situation like this.. they need to id you as the only legit way to know that you aren't kidnapping some random child.

The LAW in Texas is pretty clear.. http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/38.02.00.html

You only need to identify yourself if you have been arrested. Which I agree with. BUT if you don't identify, you should expect closer scrutiny of your situation... especially in a possible kidnapping case.

Every state is different. In Kansas, under the "Stop and Identify" law a cop has the authority to require ID when the "officer reasonably suspects [the person] is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime."

http://kslegislature.org/li/b2011_12/statute/022_000_0000_chapter/022_024_0000_article/022_024_0002_section/022_024_0002_k/

Donger
02-14-2012, 02:47 PM
Every state is different. In Kansas, under the "Stop and Identify" law a cop has the authority to require ID when the "officer reasonably suspects [the person] is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime."

http://kslegislature.org/li/b2011_12/statute/022_000_0000_chapter/022_024_0000_article/022_024_0002_section/022_024_0002_k/

That sounds like a great movie idea. Maybe Tom Cruise could star in it? But, only if he can run.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b0S5ErGZKG4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

AustinChief
02-14-2012, 02:51 PM
And you can be arrested for anything but speeding.

If you wanted to go that route. If someone is acting suspicious (IE, opening the glovebox with a screwdriver) in your vehicle, and I walk up on this and ask for ID to investigate this suspicious behavior. He says no, and doesn't offer any explanation to what he's doing. Are you're ok with me letting him stay in your car? How do I know he's not you and just being a prick to me?

In Texas, you are supposed to ask the person what they are doing.. if they refuse to identify and/or explain themselves.. you can reasonably assume they are breaking the law in this case and arrest them. Due to the fact that they refused to identify themselves, they don't have much recourse for your reasonable arrest. I have no issue with this. BUT if I am just walking down the street and a cop asks for my ID.. fat chance he is getting it without a good reason. IF (as has happened before) I get stopped and asked for ID because I fit the description of a suspect they are looking for in the area... I have no problem showing ID or facing possible arrest. Which is why I agree that in THIS case the moron in question should have shown ID since the police have very little else to go on when trying to determine if he should be with that particular child.

Pitt Gorilla
02-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Yep. Police know that in a kidnapping if they don't get the kid back within the first few hours the odds of them ever coming back alive drop dramatically. In this case the old bastard should have shown ID and cooperated. Wouldn't bother me if they were allowed to charge someone that delays a kidnapping investigation like that with interference with official acts.Who had been kidnapped in this case?

vailpass
02-14-2012, 05:12 PM
Who had been kidnapped in this case?

I don't know; was there not a reported kidnapping in this case?

My statement was meant to apply when there is an active amber alert or an active kidnapping report/investigation/search.

vailpass
02-14-2012, 05:14 PM
That damn Constitution thing always gets in the way!

Please. Individual states can write their laws governing the requirement for a citizen to identify themselves.

stevieray
02-14-2012, 06:25 PM
ya, kidnappers walk down the street with their victims in broad daylight, and don't take off running at the first sight of the authorities.

sadly, cops today are a cops section of society in general...mistrusting, judgemental, reluctant to give the benefit of the doubt, and cast unwarranted aspersions on others.

not only can we not wait to see someone go down, we want to be the first to do it.

"we're just doing our job"..if you were, you wouldn't feel compelled to say it...it's an excuse for improper procedure. and behavior.

listopencil
02-14-2012, 06:29 PM
ya, kidnappers walk down the street with their victims in broad daylight, and don't take off running at the first sight of the authorities.

sadly, cops today are a cops section of society in general...mistrusting, judgemental, reluctant to give the benefit of the doubt, and cast unwarranted aspersions on others.

not only can we wait to see someone go down, we want to be the first to do it.

"we're just doing our job"..if you were, you wouldn't feel compelled to say it...it's an excuse for improper procedure. and behavior.

... someone had seen a white man chasing a black girl and reported a possible kidnapping.


The cops were investigating a reported possible kidnapping.

stevieray
02-14-2012, 06:34 PM
The cops were investigating a reported possible kidnapping.

and then did what? nothing? they were on foot.. if they TRULY beiieved it, they would've done more than just call it in...wouldn't you?


ya, and she was screaming bloody murder to get away from him when they showed up.


common sense.

listopencil
02-14-2012, 08:57 PM
and then did what? nothing? they were on foot.. if they TRULY beiieved it, they would've done more than just call it in...wouldn't you? ya, and she was screaming bloody murder to get away from him when they showed up. common sense.


Yeah, if I thought I saw an older guy chasing down a kid with bad intent, that guy had better have a good excuse when I caught up to him. Not everyone is like that though. Some people call the cops and then drop it. Either way the call was made and the cops responded. And it's not like they beat him down and cuffed him before taking him down to the station. They questioned him...and he was actually not as cooperative as I would have been in the same situation. Bottom line for me is that if a possible kidnapping is reported, this is how I want the cops to proceed. Stop the guy and start asking questions.

Pitt Gorilla
02-14-2012, 09:16 PM
Yeah, if I thought I saw an older guy chasing down a kid with bad intent, that guy had better have a good excuse when I caught up to him. Not everyone is like that though. Some people call the cops and then drop it. Either way the call was made and the cops responded. And it's not like they beat him down and cuffed him before taking him down to the station. They questioned him...and he was actually not as cooperative as I would have been in the same situation. Bottom line for me is that if a possible kidnapping is reported, this is how I want the cops to proceed. Stop the guy and start asking questions.It sounds like if you want to screw with a bi-racial family, all you have to do is call in a "possible kidnapping."

FAX
02-14-2012, 09:31 PM
Yeah ... the "kidnapping" alarm aside, there's a racial aspect of this that is pretty distasteful.

Mr. CrazyCoffey will likely disagree, but I firmly believe that a ton of profiling goes on. I saw this program one time that (I think) was sponsored by an organization that deals with and confronts police abuse. In fact, I think the organization was founded by an ex-cop who grew tired with and concerned about the abuse he saw going down.

Anyhow, they did this weird test deal. They had a white guy drive a nice car down a street in a fairly nice neighborhood. He drove back and forth all night. No problem. Then, they have a black guy do the same thing in the same car in the same place and he was pulled over time and time again. The police dudes came up with all kinds of excuses for pulling him over ... none of which were reasonable or even truthful. In fact, their reasons for stopping him were sometimes extremely lame. They ran his license and tags and took their time doing it. It was proof positive that, at least in that neighborhood, profiling is very real and very rampant.

That's why I was so surprised that they cops didn't taze that little girl or, at least, rough her up a little.

FAX

listopencil
02-14-2012, 09:49 PM
It sounds like if you want to screw with a bi-racial family, all you have to do is call in a "possible kidnapping."

At least in this case it's easily resolved. If you want to screw with a parent, all you have to do is report them as abusive to Child Protective Services. If you want to screw with a coworker, all you have to do is accuse them of harassment. If you want to screw with a married couple, all you have to do is accuse one of them with having an affair with you. Life is hard and people are dicks sometimes.

listopencil
02-14-2012, 09:56 PM
Yeah ... the "kidnapping" alarm aside, there's a racial aspect of this that is pretty distasteful.

Mr. CrazyCoffey will likely disagree, but I firmly believe that a ton of profiling goes on. I saw this program one time that (I think) was sponsored by an organization that deals with and confronts police abuse. In fact, I think the organization was founded by an ex-cop who grew tired with and concerned about the abuse he saw going down.

Anyhow, they did this weird test deal. They had a white guy drive a nice car down a street in a fairly nice neighborhood. He drove back and forth all night. No problem. Then, they have a black guy do the same thing in the same car in the same place and he was pulled over time and time again. The police dudes came up with all kinds of excuses for pulling him over ... none of which were reasonable or even truthful. In fact, their reasons for stopping him were sometimes extremely lame. They ran his license and tags and took their time doing it. It was proof positive that, at least in that neighborhood, profiling is very real and very rampant.


FAX

Absolutely. I know people who have been pulled over for DWB. Driving While Black. Hell, my sister and her husband were pulled over for Driving While Black With A White Woman In The Car. I've had family members harassed by the cops because of the color of their skin on multiple occasions. It's also how you dress and how you carry yourself. But cops absolutely profile. And cops are people too, that means some of them are going to be racist just like some of us are.

crazycoffey
02-15-2012, 01:45 AM
Yeah ... the "kidnapping" alarm aside, there's a racial aspect of this that is pretty distasteful.

Mr. CrazyCoffey will likely disagree, but I firmly believe that a ton of profiling goes on. I saw this program one time that (I think) was sponsored by an organization that deals with and confronts police abuse. In fact, I think the organization was founded by an ex-cop who grew tired with and concerned about the abuse he saw going down.

Anyhow, they did this weird test deal. They had a white guy drive a nice car down a street in a fairly nice neighborhood. He drove back and forth all night. No problem. Then, they have a black guy do the same thing in the same car in the same place and he was pulled over time and time again. The police dudes came up with all kinds of excuses for pulling him over ... none of which were reasonable or even truthful. In fact, their reasons for stopping him were sometimes extremely lame. They ran his license and tags and took their time doing it. It was proof positive that, at least in that neighborhood, profiling is very real and very rampant.

That's why I was so surprised that they cops didn't taze that little girl or, at least, rough her up a little.

FAX

I don't disagree that it happens, but I do disagree about me doing it and damn near every cop I've ever worked with in Texas and Missouri for the last 15 years (in fact I recall two that made racial profiling stops and one I got to see get weeded out after her only being a cop for two years). I stop someone for something that seems out of place or an outright violation, be it a black man, a white woman or a green child. I also think, in general, it's the larger city areas that racial profiling happens the most. LA, NY, etc.

To Stevie, I know what you mean in your post too, and I know abuse happens, but there are so many people out there ready to "catch a cop" acting wrong in a situation, and there are also established groups fighting harassment tactics. There's also internal affairs made up of cops finding cops who act outside of policy too. Point being that it really would be hard to be a "bad cop" if one were so inclined.

Still to Stevie; as to your point about what you would do, I am going to say you would be very sad to learn how many grown ass men and women do nothing, let alone only call the cops, when they think something bad may be going down. I'm speaking from experience in smaller rural areas of bigger metropolises. I would imagine that number to be even higher in the downtown LA, NY, Dallas, St. Louis etc areas. People don't want to get involved, the few that feel morally inclined to call the cops feel like they have done their parts by only picking up that damn phone.

El Jefe
02-15-2012, 07:02 AM
Protect and serve, y'all.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2012/02/me-apd-and-babysitting-while-white-part.html

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