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philfree
02-16-2012, 07:53 PM
And make an offer to Carr and he turns it down so we franchise him. How much compensation should we require for another team to sign him?

The Patriots #31 pick would do it for me:shrug: So what say Chiefs Planet?

WhitiE
02-16-2012, 07:54 PM
Mmmk

SNR
02-16-2012, 07:56 PM
He's a restricted free agent. It's kind of redundant to use a franchise tag on him, isn't it?

58-4ever
02-16-2012, 07:57 PM
Franchise = two first round picks

58-4ever
02-16-2012, 07:57 PM
He's a restricted free agent. It's kind of redundant to use a franchise tag on him, isn't it?

No it is not.

philfree
02-16-2012, 08:00 PM
Franchise = two first round picks

That's where it starts but a team can always take less. We got a 1sta and a 3rd for J. Allen...so what's Carr worth?

-King-
02-16-2012, 08:00 PM
He's a restricted free agent. It's kind of redundant to use a franchise tag on him, isn't it?

He's unrestricted.

BossChief
02-16-2012, 08:06 PM
That's where it starts but a team can always take less. We got a 1sta and a 3rd for J. Allen...so what's Carr worth?

We got a first and two thirds for Jared.

...

Carr is unrestricted, the only way to retain him is to franchise him or flat out sign him to a long term contract.

philfree
02-16-2012, 08:16 PM
We got a first and two thirds for Jared....

Carr is unrestricted, the only way to retain him is to franchise him or flat out sign him to a long term contract.

Yeah that's right not just one like I said.

the Talking Can
02-16-2012, 08:17 PM
what would we get if we lost him?

a decent compensatory pick?

philfree
02-16-2012, 08:30 PM
what would we get if we lost him?

a decent compensatory pick?

If we franchise Carr no other team can even talk to him without agreeing to the compensation it would cost for them to sign him. That starts at two 1st round picks. The Chiefs could stick to that or agree to take less. Carr probably isn't worth two first round picks so waht is he worth?

Mr Talking Can, I figured you knew the franchise tag rules. C'mon man!

O.city
02-16-2012, 08:32 PM
Maybe we franchise Carr, someone else signs him, we get 2 more first rounders, package that up to get Luck or RGIII?

philfree
02-16-2012, 08:34 PM
Maybe we franchise Carr, someone else signs him, we get 2 more first rounders, package that up to get Luck or RGIII?

Somebody caught on.

the Talking Can
02-16-2012, 08:34 PM
If we franchise Carr no other team can even talk to him without agreeing to the compensation it would cost for them to sign him. That starts at two 1st round picks. The Chiefs could stick to that or agree to take less. Carr probably isn't worth two first round picks so waht is he worth?

Mr Talking Can, I figured you knew the franchise tag rules. C'mon man!

i'm not talking about franchise tag rules

i'm talking about compensatory picks received for losing free agents

wikipedia, to answer my own question...i didn't realize the bolded rule existed:

In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of 32 picks awarded at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as "compensatory picks," are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.

If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft (These are known as "supplemental compensatory selections").

Chief3188
02-16-2012, 08:36 PM
This thread is filled with an 8 year olds christmas wishes.

The most we would get out of Carr would be a 2nd or maybe a 2nd and a 4th if we lucked out. But there are too many decent CB's in this years FA class that I don't think many teams would want to trade for him but it only takes one I guess. But why would we want to trade Carr for one pick which in essence is one unproven player and it leaves us with a hole that wasn't there before? I think people get a little too draft happy and just want to get extra picks regardless of how ridiculous it might be.

I would prefer to keep the chemistry our secondary has developed especially with the Brandons together for as long as they can play.

philfree
02-16-2012, 08:40 PM
i'm not talking about franchise tag rules

i'm talking about compensatory picks received for losing free agents

wikipedia, to answer my own question...i didn't realize the bolded rule existed:

You can't let Carr walk for compensatory picks.

C'mon man.

philfree
02-16-2012, 08:44 PM
This thread is filled with an 8 year olds christmas wishes.

The most we would get out of Carr would be a 2nd or maybe a 2nd and a 4th if we lucked out. But there are too many decent CB's in this years FA class that I don't think many teams would want to trade for him but it only takes one I guess. But why would we want to trade Carr for one pick which in essence is one unproven player and it leaves us with a hole that wasn't there before? I think people get a little too draft happy and just want to get extra picks regardless of how ridiculous it might be.

I would prefer to keep the chemistry our secondary has developed especially with the Brandons together for as long as they can play.

That's a decent reply.

I like the chemistry too but if it comes down to it the Chiefs will have to decide what Carrs value is. A 2nd and 4th is noted.

Detoxing
02-16-2012, 08:48 PM
That's a decent reply.

I like the chemistry too but if it comes down to it the Chiefs will have to decide what Carrs value is. A 2nd and 4th is noted.

Meh.

While no one will pay two firsts for him, a 2nd and 4th is too low. First and third or better or we just go fucked in a trade.

Simplicity
02-16-2012, 08:53 PM
Yeah... Franchise him...

philfree
02-16-2012, 08:55 PM
Meh.

While no one will pay two firsts for him, a 2nd and 4th is too low. First and third or better or we just go ****ed in a trade.

I don't think a 2nd and 4th is enough.

NE's 2nd 1st round pick, the 31st pick in the draft. I'd do that.

We can afford to pay him the franchise rate of pay so we have the leverage in this situation.

the Talking Can
02-16-2012, 08:58 PM
You can't let Carr walk for compensatory picks.

C'mon man.

jesus faceplam, i'm not advocating it

Chief3188
02-16-2012, 09:06 PM
That's a decent reply.

I like the chemistry too but if it comes down to it the Chiefs will have to decide what Carrs value is. A 2nd and 4th is noted.

One thing the Patriots have proven over the years is that if you get a good enough offer for any player outside of a QB. Olineman or Dlineman that is of pro bowl caliber and in their prime that they are expendable to an extent.

If some team wants to give us a 1st and 2nd for Carr then we would be pretty foolish not to do it. But even then we would have to make both picks count in a big way for us to come out on top in that scenario because if we just get one good player and we lost one player who we had already put in the time of developing then we are the clear cut losers in that trade.

Chief3188
02-16-2012, 09:09 PM
Meh.

While no one will pay two firsts for him, a 2nd and 4th is too low. First and third or better or we just go ****ed in a trade.

I agree but can you honestly see a team giving up more than that for a CB who has played as the number 2 CB on his team for 4 years but looks like he could probably be a number 1?

the Talking Can
02-16-2012, 09:10 PM
One thing the Patriots have proven over the years is that if you get a good enough offer for any player outside of a QB. Olineman or Dlineman that is of pro bowl caliber and in their prime that they are expendable to an extent.

If some team wants to give us a 1st and 2nd for Carr then we would be pretty foolish not to do it. But even then we would have to make both picks count in a big way for us to come out on top in that scenario because if we just get one good player and we lost one player who we had already put in the time of developing then we are the clear cut losers in that trade.

the patriots have proven that if Tom Brady is your QB you do about any dumb thing and still make a superbowl....nothing about that situation is transferable to teams quarterbacked by Matt Cassel...

Simplicity
02-16-2012, 09:13 PM
You know... If we did sign Routt and got the 1st n 2nd picks... I would be fine with franchising him... After all, we did try!

Detoxing
02-16-2012, 09:20 PM
I agree but can you honestly see a team giving up more than that for a CB who has played as the number 2 CB on his team for 4 years but looks like he could probably be a number 1?

This team doesn't have a #2 CB.

There is a Left one and a Right one.

A #1 CB would entail that that CB shadows the opponents best receiver. Or that one of them is far superior to the other.

That's not the case here.

Carr has proven, even against some of the oppositions best WR's, that he is a top YOUNG talent at his position. He's quiet, works hard, and is more consistent than Brandon Flowers. He's gotten better every year. He's the definition of an Ascending player.

Teams pay good money/draft picks for players like that. Players like that make up the core of a team.

Consistent1
02-16-2012, 09:42 PM
He is one of the most talked about FA's on like every team's message boards. I have to think that there is a ton of interest. They just need to get his ass signed.

Psyko Tek
02-16-2012, 10:01 PM
This team doesn't have a #2 CB.

There is a Left one and a Right one.

A #1 CB would entail that that CB shadows the opponents best receiver. Or that one of them is far superior to the other.

That's not the case here.

Carr has proven, even against some of the oppositions best WR's, that he is a top YOUNG talent at his position. He's quiet, works hard, and is more consistent than Brandon Flowers. He's gotten better every year. He's the definition of an Ascending player.

Teams pay good money/draft picks for players like that. Players like that make up the core of a team.

this
KEEP HIM

BIG K
02-16-2012, 10:08 PM
Players like that make up the core of a team.

The Right 53'? You draft and develop your 'core' guys. Carr is one of those core guys...Sign him or franchise him, either way, he is a 'core' guy by Haley-pioli standards.....The guy needs to be a chief next year.

Dylan
02-16-2012, 10:13 PM
One thing the Patriots have proven over the years is that if you get a good enough offer for any player outside of a QB. Olineman or Dlineman that is of pro bowl caliber and in their prime that they are expendable to an extent.

It may be time to see if Brian Hoyer can evolve into the Patriots starter ... http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-14836.gif

Excerpt: Tom Brady: Not So Terrific
Cold, Hard Football Facts for February 06, 2012
By Scott Kacsmar

What if we told you there was a quarterback in the last seven years that won two league MVP awards, won 78.4% of his regular season games, and had a 101.8 passer rating with a 203:63 TD-to-INT ratio? He led three of the 10 highest scoring teams in NFL history in that span.

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Known as a “clutch winner” since early in his career, Brady won three Super Bowls and his first 10 playoff starts. But things have gone much differently since the last Super Bowl win, which is now eight seasons ago.

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Read more from Tom Brady: Not So Terrific:

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Scott Kacsmar is a football researcher/writer who has contributed large quantities of data to Pro-Football-Reference.com, including the only standardized database of fourth quarter comebacks and game-winning drives.

Chief3188
02-17-2012, 12:39 AM
the patriots have proven that if Tom Brady is your QB you do about any dumb thing and still make a superbowl....nothing about that situation is transferable to teams quarterbacked by Matt Cassel...

lol touche and fair enough. But I am talking about getting results from players who had replaced these players like Branch, Samuel etc...

But you are right that the Brady factor skews everything. Matt Cassel and the word quarterback should never be used in the same sentence unless it speaks in past tense such as "Matt Cassel the ex nfl QB had his throwing arm chopped off by an ax wielding maniac named Todd Haley".

Chief3188
02-17-2012, 12:45 AM
This team doesn't have a #2 CB.

There is a Left one and a Right one.

A #1 CB would entail that that CB shadows the opponents best receiver. Or that one of them is far superior to the other.

That's not the case here.

Carr has proven, even against some of the oppositions best WR's, that he is a top YOUNG talent at his position. He's quiet, works hard, and is more consistent than Brandon Flowers. He's gotten better every year. He's the definition of an Ascending player.

Teams pay good money/draft picks for players like that. Players like that make up the core of a team.

You don't have to sell me on Carr's abilities. I am definitely Pro-Carr. In many ways he is just as good and even better in others than Flowers. Especially his dependability. He has not missed a game yet.

But the view of alot of the NFL is probably that Flowers is our main guy but the Green Bay game might have opened a few eyes. Either way do you really see a team giving that up for a CB?