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Donger
02-20-2012, 08:43 AM
LMAO

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_PAUL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-02-18-22-33-48

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -- Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul warned the U.S. is "slipping into a fascist system" dominated by government and businesses as he held a fiery rally Saturday night upstaging established Republican Party banquets a short distance away.

The Texas congressman drew a couple thousand standing and chanting people to Kansas City's Union Station as the party's establishment dined on steak across the street at the Missouri GOP's annual conference. Kansas Republicans were holding a similar convention in a suburb across the state line.

Paul staged his rally near the nation's World War I museum, asserting that the U.S. got off track about 100 years ago during the era of President Woodrow Wilson, who led the nation through World War I and unsuccessfully advocated for the nation's involvement in a forerunner of the United Nations.

"We've slipped away from a true Republic," Paul said. "Now we're slipping into a fascist system where it's a combination of government and big business and authoritarian rule and the suppression of the individual rights of each and every American citizen."

Although campaign aides were aware, Paul told reporters after his speech that he did not know his rally was coinciding with long-established Missouri and Kansas Republican Party events, where Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell - a vice presidential prospect - was the keynote speaker.

Several Republicans slipped away from the banquets to join the Paul rally. Among them was Ralph Munyan, a Republican committeeman in Kansas City's home county, who said he agreed with Paul's warnings of a "fascist system" and his pledge to the end nation's involvement in wars overseas and against drugs.

"His foreign policy is one of peace," Munyan said.

Paul repeatedly denounced President Barack Obama's recent enactment of a law requiring military custody of anyone suspected to be associated with al-Qaida and involved in planning an attack on the U.S. Obama said when he signed the legislation that his administration would not authorize the indefinite military detention of American citizens without a trial.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 08:51 AM
Obvious fascism, is Obvious.

Donger
02-20-2012, 09:05 AM
Obvious fascism, is Obvious.

Can you provide some examples of the "authoritarian" rule which we are being subjected to?

CoMoChief
02-20-2012, 09:22 AM
Can you provide some examples of the "authoritarian" rule which we are being subjected to?

NDAA
Patriot Act
TSA checkpoints on the streets
FEMA camps


We are obviously entering in a police state. If you can't see that it's because either you are stupid, or you're so badly brainwashed that it has you believe that everything is ok and nothing will come of the examples above. This isn't a liberal vs conservative issue. One party is just as bad as the other. HOPEFULLY you can agree w/ that. The powers that be have done a great job over the years dividing the public and playing groups of people off of each other while both parties continue massive govt spending, and expansion of govt. power.

Donger
02-20-2012, 09:23 AM
NDAA
Patriot Act
TSA checkpoints on the streets
FEMA camps


We are obviously entering in a police state. If you can't see that it's because either you are stupid, or you're so badly brainwashed that it has you believe that everything is ok and nothing will come of the examples above.

Which one of those resulted from authoritarian rule?

BucEyedPea
02-20-2012, 09:27 AM
Can you provide some examples of the "authoritarian" rule which we are being subjected to?

Unbelievable!! You've see your own like-minded posters complaining about Obama's detention for Americans and bailouts for certain industries like Wall Stree, Big auto and green energy. What's that right there? Then there's the national greatness claims, demonization of the other (Iraq, Iran, Muslims), glorification of militarism and support for pre-emptive war which the Nazis were put on trial for at Nuremberg. Toss in an agency with "homeland" in it's name and these are just a small handful of what's happening. Oh, but I forgot you think America is a democracy. So wasn't Germany circa 1930's.

Go back out in the pasture and eat some grass. You've been cooped up in your paddock too long to see what's going on.:p

mikey23545
02-20-2012, 09:37 AM
Obvious fascism, is Obvious.

Obvious bat-shit crazy, is bat-shit crazy.

BucEyedPea
02-20-2012, 10:01 AM
Obvious bat-shit crazy, is bat-shit crazy.

Type A personality, anger issues and tourette's syndrome is anger-obvious.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XBhlyXQeAL0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SNR
02-20-2012, 10:03 AM
Ron Paul didn't say, "We're all fascists now." He said we're slipping into that kind of system.

Do you really not see the trend this country is taking, Donger?

BucEyedPea
02-20-2012, 10:06 AM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bb3cIGGWa-M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Donger
02-20-2012, 10:22 AM
Do you really not see the trend this country is taking, Donger?

No, I don't.

SNR
02-20-2012, 10:27 AM
No, I don't.Well, you have a nice day, then.

Sun is shining out all the rabbit asses? The squirrels are engaged in song? It must be where you live.

dirk digler
02-20-2012, 10:30 AM
Ron Paul didn't say, "We're all fascists now." He said we're slipping into that kind of system.

Do you really not see the trend this country is taking, Donger?

I don't. Do you have examples?

Donger
02-20-2012, 10:31 AM
Well, you have a nice day, then.

Sun is shining out all the rabbit asses? The squirrels are engaged in song? It must be where you live.

Okay. You keep an eye out for the black helicopters and stock up on tin foil, k?

Heck, I think it's funny that a duly-elected member of congress (who also happens to be running for POTUS) exclaims that we are heading toward a fascist state. I'm sure that that fact is lost on Paul followers, however.

Donger
02-20-2012, 10:32 AM
I don't. Do you have examples?

The Patriot Act! You know, that piece of legislation that was duly-implemented by our elected officials.

CoMoChief
02-20-2012, 10:32 AM
Which one of those resulted from authoritarian rule?

Well, you started seeing it in the GWB, esp after 9/11. you don't have to be blind to see what all has taken place since 9/11.

vailpass
02-20-2012, 10:32 AM
Okay. You keep an eye out for the black helicopters and stock up on tin foil, k?

Heck, I think it's funny that a duly-elected member of congress (who also happens to be running for POTUS) exclaims that we are heading toward a fascist state. I'm sure that that fact is lost on Paul followers, however.

Black? Damnit Donger I've been thinking they were dark blue.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 10:44 AM
Obvious bat-shit crazy, is bat-shit crazy.

Hello batshit!

SNR
02-20-2012, 10:50 AM
Okay. You keep an eye out for the black helicopters and stock up on tin foil, k?

Heck, I think it's funny that a duly-elected member of congress (who also happens to be running for POTUS) exclaims that we are heading toward a fascist state. I'm sure that that fact is lost on Paul followers, however.It's funny how you foam at the mouth about that god damn Obama more than anyone on this forum but don't see any of his negative decisions that he makes as an authoritarian trend.

I don't need my magic tinfoil hat to see this gap in logic.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 10:51 AM
It's funny how you foam at the mouth about that god damn Obama more than anyone on this forum but don't see any of his negative decisions that he makes as an authoritarian trend.

I don't need my magic tinfoil hat to see this gap in logic.

Donger lives in his own fantasy world, this is the one thing i've learned from this forum.

SNR
02-20-2012, 10:52 AM
Okay. You keep an eye out for the black helicopters and stock up on tin foil, k?

Heck, I think it's funny that a duly-elected member of congress (who also happens to be running for POTUS) exclaims that we are heading toward a fascist state. I'm sure that that fact is lost on Paul followers, however.So when your favorite Congressman says there's a problem that needs to be addressed do you also say, "Oh, that's funny! A member of Congress is telling me the country is on a bad course, when he's part of the legislative body in charge of the country's bad course! Hilarious!"

Donger
02-20-2012, 10:54 AM
It's funny how you foam at the mouth about that god damn Obama more than anyone on this forum but don't see any of his negative decisions that he makes as an authoritarian trend.

I don't need my magic tinfoil hat to see this gap in logic.

Please tell me one thing that Obama, Bush or congress has done that was accomplished by anything other than legal means.

SNR
02-20-2012, 10:55 AM
Please tell me one thing that Obama, Bush or congress has done that was accomplished by anything other than legal means.LMAO You don't know what the word fascist means, do you?

Donger
02-20-2012, 10:56 AM
So when your favorite Congressman says there's a problem that needs to be addressed do you also say, "Oh, that's funny! A member of Congress is telling me the country is on a bad course, when he's part of the legislative body in charge of the country's bad course! Hilarious!"

No. I'd review his/her opinion and then decide whether or not to vote him/her out of office next election.

I can still do that, right? "They" allow me to do that still?

Donger
02-20-2012, 10:57 AM
LMAO You don't know what the word fascist means, do you?

Yes, I do. I'm not sure that Paul and his followers do, however.

SNR
02-20-2012, 11:00 AM
Yes, I do. I'm not sure that Paul and his followers do, however.So you know that you can have a dictatorship without fascism and fascism without a dictatorship, right?

Donger
02-20-2012, 11:05 AM
So you know that you can have a dictatorship without fascism and fascism without a dictatorship, right?

No, I don't know that. Please provide an example of that being the case.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 11:07 AM
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SNR
02-20-2012, 11:15 AM
No, I don't know that. Please provide an example of that being the case.Fascism requires a one-party government with a strong authoritarian leader at the top who governs over a legislative government ruled by the same party. That's not the same thing as a dictatorship.

I'd prefer not to follow you down this sewer you're attempting to take this conversation, though. Again, I'm trying to defend Ron Paul in his statement that the United States is becoming more and more authoritarian. You're saying, "well, the Patriot Act was voted and passed fair and square by our democratic government, so no fascism today!" No kidding. Obviously we're not a fascist society. But we're definitely reflecting some symptoms of it more and more.

Donger
02-20-2012, 11:17 AM
Fascism requires a one-party government with a strong authoritarian leader at the top who governs over a legislative government ruled by the same party. That's not the same thing as a dictatorship.

Yes, it is.

I'd prefer not to follow you down this sewer you're attempting to take this conversation, though. Again, I'm trying to defend Ron Paul in his statement that the United States is becoming more and more authoritarian. You're saying, "well, the Patriot Act was voted and passed fair and square by our democratic government, so no fascism today!" No kidding. Obviously we're not a fascist society. But we're definitely reflecting some symptoms of it more and more.

How are we reflecting some symptoms of fascist state. Please be specific.

SNR
02-20-2012, 11:28 AM
Let me know when my five minutes is up, Donger.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hnTmBjk-M0c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Donger
02-20-2012, 11:30 AM
Let me know when my five minutes is up, Donger.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hnTmBjk-M0c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sure, I realize that it's going to be difficult for you to provide examples of us slipping into a fascist state.

Because there aren't any.

So, perhaps you and those like you should refrain from such inaccurate and dramatic statements.

Or not.

Chocolate Hog
02-20-2012, 11:31 AM
Obvious bat-shit crazy, is bat-shit crazy.

Signed the racist redneck who jacks off to images of 9-11.

dirk digler
02-20-2012, 11:34 AM
Do we have any of these?


14 Characteristics of Fascism

<dl><dt>1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt> 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed </dt><dt> to the government's policies or actions. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. </dt></dl>

Bump
02-20-2012, 11:35 AM
Ron Paul is right on here. It's funny that conservative republicans laugh him off like he's crazy. But he's 100% correct.

SNR
02-20-2012, 11:35 AM
Sure, I realize that it's going to be difficult for you to provide examples of us slipping into a fascist state.

Because there aren't any.

So, perhaps you and those like you should refrain from such inaccurate and dramatic statements.

Or not.Fine. Here's one example.

Online surveillance. Obama has made it clear for a long time that the internet needs to be regulated for national security purposes.

That's not fascism. It's a turn in that direction, though.

Still can't think of other examples?

Chocolate Hog
02-20-2012, 11:36 AM
1,7,8,9, and 13.

Chocolate Hog
02-20-2012, 11:37 AM
Ron Paul is right on here. It's funny that conservative republicans laugh him off like he's crazy. But he's 100% correct.

Yeah the "conservative" republicans are Santorum supporters and people like Donger who deny that Pakistan harbored Bin Laden. These people think Sharia Law is coming to America and the president isn't from here. They aren't exactly in touch with reality.

Donger
02-20-2012, 11:38 AM
Fine. Here's one example.

Online surveillance. Obama has made it clear for a long time that the internet needs to be regulated for national security purposes.

That's not fascism. It's a turn in that direction, though.

Still can't think of other examples?

No, it's a simple acknowledgement that our enemies use the Internet to communicate. I suppose you'd rather our intel weenies not monitor the communication of our enemies?

Next?

Donger
02-20-2012, 11:39 AM
Yeah the "conservative" republicans are Santorum supporters and people like Donger who deny that Pakistan harbored Bin Laden. These people think Sharia Law is coming to America and the president isn't from here. They aren't exactly in touch with reality.

Yes, asking for evidence of claims is just so darn fascist, ain't it?

LMAO

And, no, I don't think Sharia Law is coming. And, I'm not religious.

SNR
02-20-2012, 11:40 AM
Do we have any of these?


14 Characteristics of Fascism

<dl><dt>1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt> 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed </dt><dt> to the government's policies or actions. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. </dt></dl>
I have bolded the elements that are certainly trending this way in our government since 9/11.

If you disagree with any of my selections, please let me know, but back up your statements. I don't want to get into another game of contradiction with Donger.

BucEyedPea
02-20-2012, 11:42 AM
Yeah the "conservative" republicans are Santorum supporters and people like Donger who deny that Pakistan harbored Bin Laden. These people think Sharia Law is coming to America and the president isn't from here. They aren't exactly in touch with reality.

Donger is really a Democrat.

SNR
02-20-2012, 11:43 AM
No, it's a simple acknowledgement that our enemies use the Internet to communicate. I suppose you'd rather our intel weenies not monitor the communication of our enemies?

Next?Yeah. That's all they're doing is monitoring terrorist conversations on Skype. :spock:

Anything I say will be pish-toshed by you. So whatever. I do hope you have that nice day that I mentioned awhile ago.

BucEyedPea
02-20-2012, 11:44 AM
Let me know when my five minutes is up, Donger.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hnTmBjk-M0c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

They have British accents too. Good pick!

Donger
02-20-2012, 11:44 AM
Yeah. That's all they're doing is monitoring terrorist conversations on Skype. :spock:

Anything I say will be pish-toshed by you. So whatever. I do hope you have that nice day that I mentioned awhile ago.

You, too.

BucEyedPea
02-20-2012, 11:45 AM
The Patriot Act! You know, that piece of legislation that was duly-implemented by our elected officials.

If your into democracy this argument works. But we're a republic with rule of law that protects fundamental natural rights. You just don't get it.

otherstar
02-20-2012, 11:51 AM
If your into democracy this argument works. But we're a republic with rule of law that protects fundamental natural rights. You just don't get it.

Donger fails to see the truth. He obviously does not realize that Hitler was elected Chancellor of Germany lawfully either. He also doesn't realize that the trend begun with GWB (and decried by Obama UNTIL he got into the White House) of the President circumventing the Legislative and Judicial branches by ruling by Executive Order is also an abuse of Presidential power. Some people (like Donger) are so blinded by their ideology that they fail to see the truth.

Donger
02-20-2012, 11:59 AM
Donger fails to see the truth. He obviously does not realize that Hitler was elected Chancellor of Germany lawfully either. He also doesn't realize that the trend begun with GWB (and decried by Obama UNTIL he got into the White House) of the President circumventing the Legislative and Judicial branches by ruling by Executive Order is also an abuse of Presidential power. Some people (like Donger) are so blinded by their ideology that they fail to see the truth.

I'm an historian. I'm very familiar with how Hitler came to power.

The use of Executive Order is permitted according to the Constitution of the United States.

If I were seeing some of the policies implemented by the NAZIs here, I assure you that I'd agree with Paul. Since I don't and they are not...

dirk digler
02-20-2012, 12:00 PM
I have bolded the elements that are certainly trending this way in our government since 9/11.

If you disagree with any of my selections, please let me know, but back up your statements. I don't want to get into another game of contradiction with Donger.

I disagree with you picking #1, #4 and partly #13.

#1 - Our country has always been like this except maybe during Vietnam. This isn't anything new.

#4 - Basically the same as #1. This isn't something new.

#13 - Our leaders are democratically elected by the masses now who they appoint could certainly be thought of as cronyism. But let's not pretend Ron Paul would do any different. He would appoint his friends etc
All you have to do is look how he has handled his racist newsletters and protecting the person who wrote them.

Bump
02-20-2012, 12:02 PM
It's a damn shame that Ron Paul can't be the next president. I feel like he would be our only hope. But you can damn sure bet that big corporations who elect the presidents, do not want him in office, so it won't happen. Even if 100% of Americans voted for him, hypothetically speaking of course.

Donger
02-20-2012, 12:03 PM
It's a damn shame that Ron Paul can't be the next president. I feel like he would be our only hope. But you can damn sure bet that big corporations who elect the presidents, do not want him in office, so it won't happen. Even if 100% of Americans voted for him, hypothetically speaking of course.

That's a common symptom, too:

http://officespam.chattablogs.com/archives/OB-Ron-Paul.jpg

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 12:05 PM
That's a common symptom, too:

http://officespam.chattablogs.com/archives/OB-Ron-Paul.jpg

Donger Darksider.

Bump
02-20-2012, 12:05 PM
he's not afraid to call out corruption which has destroyed this country. He knows what's wrong and wants to do the right thing. But corruption is so deep, it is unstoppable. The economy will tank at some point and I look forward to the doomsday scenario that is inevitable.

Donger
02-20-2012, 12:10 PM
Wait, isn't adoration of the leader also one of the characteristics of fascism?

jiveturkey
02-20-2012, 12:10 PM
he's not afraid to call out corruption which has destroyed this country. He knows what's wrong and wants to do the right thing. But corruption is so deep, it is unstoppable. The economy will tank at some point and I look forward to the doomsday scenario that is inevitable.

You seriously look forward to a doomsday scenario? :spock:

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 12:11 PM
Wait, isn't adoration of the leader also one of the characteristics of fascism?

Do you, Donger, solemnly swear to welcome our new Fascist overlord masters?

BucEyedPea
02-20-2012, 12:12 PM
I disagree with you picking #1, #4 and partly #13.

#1 - Our country has always been like this except maybe during Vietnam. This isn't anything new.

#4 - Basically the same as #1. This isn't something new.

#13 - Our leaders are democratically elected by the masses now who they appoint could certainly be thought of as cronyism. But let's not pretend Ron Paul would do any different. He would appoint his friends etc
All you have to do is look how he has handled his racist newsletters and protecting the person who wrote them.

Except you're wrong about Paul just picking his friends as in cronies who would benefit by sucking off the govt teat. These people are committed to undoing that sort of thing.
This is what they will be used for. So you obviously, don't understand Paul's philosophy or message—whatsoever. Or your mind can't process this idea because you can only see it through progressive left-wing eyes who do this sort of thing.

Paul did not protect the person who wrote those newsletters. There was no byline on those articles to find out who it was without a deeper search. It was a long time ago and those running the newsletters used a variety of freelance writers. All Paul said was that he didn't know and/or didn't remember who wrote what article because there were 6 or 7 that were used on and off at different times. The name of the person was eventually unearthed by Reality Check. The links were provided to it twice. You don't want to find out apparently because you're not interested in the truth but taking on the typical left-wing "racist" card. Lew Rockwell was right—it wasn't him. So Paul should be vindicated in this false charge on protecting Lew.

I also disagree with you on point #4. We've had periods of military worship but we're now the biggest superpower militarly in the world's history and that idea is LOVED by some who want to maintain it. No, it's not the same. We are also using the military to start wars of aggression, under the banner of preemption. The Nazis were convicted for this as a crime by us at Nuremberg. Again, apples and oranges.

Point # 13: In our republic where reps are elected by the people, they are also restrained by a Constitution. Remember Germany circa 1930's was a democracy too. However, it moved from democracy to dictatorship with Hitler using mechanisms in their own Constitution to take power and declare certain citizens unsuitable and to deny them rights.

Phobla
02-20-2012, 12:14 PM
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

-Benito Mussolini

Donger
02-20-2012, 12:17 PM
I look forward to the doomsday scenario that is inevitable.

Interesting. Speaking of that kind of mentality, I wonder how many of those "prepper" nuts are also Paul followers?

I'd guess close to 90%

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 12:17 PM
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."

-Benito Mussolini

Phobla

LMAO

SNR
02-20-2012, 12:23 PM
I disagree with you picking #1, #4 and partly #13.

#1 - Our country has always been like this except maybe during Vietnam. This isn't anything new.

#4 - Basically the same as #1. This isn't something new.

#13 - Our leaders are democratically elected by the masses now who they appoint could certainly be thought of as cronyism. But let's not pretend Ron Paul would do any different. He would appoint his friends etc
All you have to do is look how he has handled his racist newsletters and protecting the person who wrote them.We can disagree about 1 and 13. With #4, I get the sense that it's at a high certainly over the peak of a few decades.

I was born in 1980, so I didn't get even a sniff of the Cold War. But I do remember the 90s, and I certainly remember since 9/11. The two decades aren't remotely close. These days every Veteran's Day is a "Did you thank the troops for protecting your freedoms?!" from every person I see down the street. I have no problems with "Support our troops" bumper stickers, but I'd prefer it if you get that nonsense about protecting my freedoms out of my face. The last time a US soldier would have genuinely protected the sovereignty and freedoms of this country would have been WWII. If this country is ever seriously threatened by an outside invader, I'll be sure to wear my American flag lapel pin everywhere and take my military friends out to dinner on Veteran's Day. Until that time comes, though, I believe people have been irrationally increasing their military obsessions.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 12:28 PM
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Donger
02-20-2012, 12:32 PM
<object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2hM8e-r-eUA&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2hM8e-r-eUA&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></embed></object>

LMAO

BucEyedPea
02-20-2012, 12:35 PM
The use of Executive Order is permitted according to the Constitution of the United States.



Executive Orders are not mentioned in the Constitution; not even under the Powers of the President. If you insist they are please show me where?

Remember, Constitution is still based on specific and enumerated powers. If you read it you will see that the executive branch is the weakest of the three branches, as it doesn't have much authority or powers granted to it. The Constitution based on legislative superiority. So EO's are not supposed to be used to get around Congress in order to make law a president has been unable to pass. Executives Orders can only be used in a limited manner mainly administratively to carry out existing law and for agencies that were added under the Executive branch. Executive orders are subject to judicial review, and can be declared unconstitutional. It is true due to all additional agencies that are under the Executive that these have expanded BUT they are increasingly abused. Since Clinton, though, these have been abused more and more to get around Congress instead. Obama has been notorious with them.

Again, you just don't get it and your sense of liberty is more like a Europeans. You're Democrat in Republican clothing.

Donger
02-20-2012, 12:38 PM
Executive Orders are not mentioned in the Constitution; not even under the Powers of the President. If you insist they are please show me where?

Remember, Constitution is still based on specific and enumerated powers. If you read it you will see that the executive branch is the weakest of the three branches, as it doesn't have much authority or powers granted to it. The Constitution based on legislative superiority. So EO's are not supposed to be used to get around Congress in order to make law a president has been unable to pass. Executives Orders can only be used in a limited manner mainly administratively to carry out existing law and for agencies that were added under the Executive branch. Executive orders are subject to judicial review, and can be declared unconstitutional. It is true due to all additional agencies that are under the Executive that these have expanded BUT they are increasingly abused. Since Clinton, though, these have been abused more and more to get around Congress instead.

Again, you just don't get it and your sense of liberty is more like a Europeans. You're Democrat in Republican clothing.

I didn't say the EOs were mentioned in the Constitution, dork.

patteeu
02-20-2012, 12:42 PM
We can disagree about 1 and 13. With #4, I get the sense that it's at a high certainly over the peak of a few decades.

I was born in 1980, so I didn't get even a sniff of the Cold War. But I do remember the 90s, and I certainly remember since 9/11. The two decades aren't remotely close. These days every Veteran's Day is a "Did you thank the troops for protecting your freedoms?!" from every person I see down the street. I have no problems with "Support our troops" bumper stickers, but I'd prefer it if you get that nonsense about protecting my freedoms out of my face. The last time a US soldier would have genuinely protected the sovereignty and freedoms of this country would have been WWII. If this country is ever seriously threatened by an outside invader, I'll be sure to wear my American flag lapel pin everywhere and take my military friends out to dinner on Veteran's Day. Until that time comes, though, I believe people have been irrationally increasing their military obsessions.

Military spending as a fraction of GDP has been relatively flat for the past several decades while domestic spending has risen dramatically. While it's true that there has been an increase in military spending during the past decade of war compared to the valley during the 90's so-called peace dividend, the general trend is flat and the comparison to domestic spending just doesn't support your position.

otherstar
02-20-2012, 12:50 PM
I'm an historian. I'm very familiar with how Hitler came to power.

Well if you are a historian, you suck as one because you are not seeing historical trends from other countries begin to repeat themselves here, or you do and you are being deliberately obtuse. (I am betting on the latter)

The use of Executive Order is permitted according to the Constitution of the United States.

In a word: no. Executive orders are NOT specifically mentioned in the Constitution. I was not referring to their illegality, but to the fact that several Presidents in the last 70 years abusing them to overstep the Constitutional powers of their office.

If I were seeing some of the policies implemented by the NAZIs here, I assure you that I'd agree with Paul. Since I don't and they are not...

What don't you see? Here is one example: thanks to the Patriot Act our right to Privacy is seriously hampered. So, if you check out a bunch of library books that look suspicious,, or look at suspicious websites on library computers, the government can investigate you and nobody at the library can stop them, or even tell anybody else that government agents were there.

Donger
02-20-2012, 01:01 PM
Well if you are a historian, you suck as one because you are not seeing historical trends from other countries begin to repeat themselves here, or you do and you are being deliberately obtuse. (I am betting on the latter)

Yes, I'm aware that nuts will be nuts, and see what they want to believe.

In a word: no. Executive orders are NOT specifically mentioned in the Constitution. I was not referring to their illegality, but to the fact that several Presidents in the last 70 years abusing them to overstep the Constitutional powers of their office.

Channeling BEP? I didn't say that EOs are mentioned in the Constitution, dork.

What don't you see? Here is one example: thanks to the Patriot Act our right to Privacy is seriously hampered. So, if you check out a bunch of library books that look suspicious,, or look at suspicious websites on library computers, the government can investigate you and nobody at the library can stop them, or even tell anybody else that government agents were there.

You expect privacy in a public library? You expect privacy while using a public medium, such as the Internet?

patteeu
02-20-2012, 01:28 PM
Is the President allowed to speak to the nation in a televised speech from the Rose Garden even though it's not mentioned in the constitution?

go bowe
02-20-2012, 03:14 PM
Is the President allowed to speak to the nation in a televised speech from the Rose Garden even though it's not mentioned in the constitution?

depends on who the president is...

Bowser
02-20-2012, 03:33 PM
Wait, we're Nazis now? I thought the imminent threat was that we were turning into Communists?

SuperChief
02-20-2012, 03:34 PM
Jesus. Can't you all understand that Donger is a blithering fucking idiot who has no clue what he's talking about? Quit feeding this troll.

And Donger - just because your parents tell you something doesn't mean it has to become your own belief, too.

otherstar
02-20-2012, 03:50 PM
Yes, I'm aware that nuts will be nuts, and see what they want to believe.



Channeling BEP? I didn't say that EOs are mentioned in the Constitution, dork.

OOOOOHHHH...I'm soooo scared. Donger called me a DORK...I want my Mommy. :rolleyes:

When you grow up, then you can argue with the men and not rely on ad hominem attacks, I'll think about getting into a serious debate with you. Until then, go back to the sandbox and play with your cars and leave the thinking to the grownups. (And no, that's not an ad hominem attack, that's called a grownup putting a child in his place)

And BTW, yes, you said EO's were authorized by the Constitution. Please get your story straight and do not change your story to fit whomever you are arguing against. I realize this might be hard for you since you obviously have the intellectual acumen of a 10 year old, but please try. If you can't, then go hang out on a Raiders forum. You'll fit right in.



You expect privacy in a public library? You expect privacy while using a public medium, such as the Internet?

I'm a librarian. As a general rule libraries do NOT share patron information: what they have checked out, etc. Privacy is a value that librarians take very seriously and we tend to resent those who would have us incur upon that right. Libraries have not shared that information in the past, so why should we change now? The Patriot Act has met with lots of oppostion from the American Library Association since it was first passed.

patteeu
02-20-2012, 03:56 PM
OOOOOHHHH...I'm soooo scared. Donger called me a DORK...I want my Mommy. :rolleyes:

When you grow up, then you can argue with the men and not rely on ad hominem attacks, I'll think about getting into a serious debate with you. Until then, go back to the sandbox and play with your cars and leave the thinking to the grownups. (And no, that's not an ad hominem attack, that's called a grownup putting a child in his place)

And BTW, yes, you said EO's were authorized by the Constitution. Please get your story straight and do not change your story to fit whomever you are arguing against. I realize this might be hard for you since you obviously have the intellectual acumen of a 10 year old, but please try. If you can't, then go hang out on a Raiders forum. You'll fit right in.




I'm a librarian. As a general rule libraries do NOT share patron information: what they have checked out, etc. Privacy is a value that librarians take very seriously and we tend to resent those who would have us incur upon that right. Libraries have not shared that information in the past, so why should we change now? The Patriot Act has met with lots of oppostion from the American Library Association since it was first passed.

Since it might not have been clear that I was directing my question at you and BEP, I'll ask it again. Is the President allowed to speak to the nation in a televised speech from the Rose Garden even though it's not mentioned in the constitution?

Donger
02-20-2012, 03:59 PM
Jesus. Can't you all understand that Donger is a blithering ****ing idiot who has no clue what he's talking about? Quit feeding this troll.

And Donger - just because your parents tell you something doesn't mean it has to become your own belief, too.

LMAO

otherstar
02-20-2012, 04:02 PM
Since it might not have been clear that I was directing my question at you and BEP, I'll ask it again. Is the President allowed to speak to the nation in a televised speech from the Rose Garden even though it's not mentioned in the constitution?

What does that have to do with anything?

I have not said that executive orders were/are illegal. All I had said was they they have been abused. For example: in 1994, then President Clinton used an executive order to effectively declare war on Kosovo. Roosevelt also used an executive order to detain Japanese Americans in interment camps in 1942. Are you telling me those kinds of things are not abuses of Presidential power?

There is a big difference between a lawful power being abused and a power being lawful in the first place.

Donger
02-20-2012, 04:02 PM
OOOOOHHHH...I'm soooo scared. Donger called me a DORK...I want my Mommy. :rolleyes:

When you grow up, then you can argue with the men and not rely on ad hominem attacks, I'll think about getting into a serious debate with you. Until then, go back to the sandbox and play with your cars and leave the thinking to the grownups. (And no, that's not an ad hominem attack, that's called a grownup putting a child in his place)

And BTW, yes, you said EO's were authorized by the Constitution. Please get your story straight and do not change your story to fit whomever you are arguing against. I realize this might be hard for you since you obviously have the intellectual acumen of a 10 year old, but please try. If you can't, then go hang out on a Raiders forum. You'll fit right in.

No, I said that EOs were permitted by the Constitution, dork.

Don't believe me? Please pay attention to the part at 0:36

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wCyU3-QLg2M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

vailpass
02-20-2012, 04:03 PM
OOOOOHHHH...I'm soooo scared. Donger called me a DORK...I want my Mommy. :rolleyes:

When you grow up, then you can argue with the men and not rely on ad hominem attacks, I'll think about getting into a serious debate with you. Until then, go back to the sandbox and play with your cars and leave the thinking to the grownups. (And no, that's not an ad hominem attack, that's called a grownup putting a child in his place)

And BTW, yes, you said EO's were authorized by the Constitution. Please get your story straight and do not change your story to fit whomever you are arguing against. I realize this might be hard for you since you obviously have the intellectual acumen of a 10 year old, but please try. If you can't, then go hang out on a Raiders forum. You'll fit right in.




I'm a librarian. As a general rule libraries do NOT share patron information: what they have checked out, etc. Privacy is a value that librarians take very seriously and we tend to resent those who would have us incur upon that right. Libraries have not shared that information in the past, so why should we change now? The Patriot Act has met with lots of oppostion from the American Library Association since it was first passed.

Anyone else smell the stench of underpaid, errant, pseudo-intellectualism coupled with the faint yet unmistakable odor of terminal virginity?

Bowser
02-20-2012, 04:13 PM
Anyone else smell the stench of underpaid, errant, pseudo-intellectualism coupled with the faint yet unmistakable odor of terminal virginity?

I thought it was a heavy dose of dipshittery.

SNR
02-20-2012, 04:28 PM
Military spending as a fraction of GDP has been relatively flat for the past several decades while domestic spending has risen dramatically. While it's true that there has been an increase in military spending during the past decade of war compared to the valley during the 90's so-called peace dividend, the general trend is flat and the comparison to domestic spending just doesn't support your position.I'm not even talking about spending. I'm talking about this country's cultural mindset centered around the troops.

vailpass
02-20-2012, 04:31 PM
I thought it was a heavy dose of dipshittery.

That's a better way to phrase it.

SNR
02-20-2012, 04:39 PM
Anyone else smell the stench of underpaid, errant, pseudo-intellectualism coupled with the faint yet unmistakable odor of terminal virginity?True story: My great grandfather was a college librarian. He died with some kind of dementia, where he could remember obscure details from his past but couldn't remember what he had for breakfast that morning. According to my grandmother, the last words out of his mouth was a library call number.

Kind of sad, but slightly amusing.

Fish
02-20-2012, 04:43 PM
I'm not even talking about spending. I'm talking about this country's cultural mindset centered around the troops.

You mean like the 40 trillion idiots on Facebook demanding that people remove any Whitney Houston remembrance and instead honor "the troops"?

SNR
02-20-2012, 04:46 PM
You mean like the 40 trillion idiots on Facebook demanding that people remove any Whitney Houston remembrance and instead honor "the troops"?Bingo.

Like the concept of Whitney Houston's music directly bringing joy or meaning to someone's life is insignificant next to Corporal Buttliquid's contribution to your life through his brave service in the Falkland Islands.

vailpass
02-20-2012, 04:49 PM
True story: My great grandfather was a college librarian. He died with some kind of dementia, where he could remember obscure details from his past but couldn't remember what he had for breakfast that morning. According to my grandmother, the last words out of his mouth was a library call number.

Kind of sad, but slightly amusing.

Interesting how the mind works.

vailpass
02-20-2012, 04:50 PM
Bingo.

Like the concept of Whitney Houston's music directly bringing joy or meaning to someone's life is insignificant next to Corporal Buttliquid's contribution to your life through his brave service in the Falkland Islands.

Many would argue that is exactly the case. What makes their viewpoint less valid?

Fish
02-20-2012, 04:52 PM
Bingo.

Like the concept of Whitney Houston's music directly bringing joy or meaning to someone's life is insignificant next to Corporal Buttliquid's contribution to your life through his brave service in the Falkland Islands.

And I'd bet you don't even have a single magnetic yellow ribbon on the back of your gas guzzling SUV....

Why do you hate the troops so much?

Dave Lane
02-20-2012, 04:59 PM
Ron Paul didn't say, "We're all fascists now." He said we're slipping into that kind of system.

Do you really not see the trend this country is taking, Donger?

Umm I don't see it at all. Enlighten me.

patteeu
02-20-2012, 05:01 PM
What does that have to do with anything?

I have not said that executive orders were/are illegal. All I had said was they they have been abused. For example: in 1994, then President Clinton used an executive order to effectively declare war on Kosovo. Roosevelt also used an executive order to detain Japanese Americans in interment camps in 1942. Are you telling me those kinds of things are not abuses of Presidential power?

There is a big difference between a lawful power being abused and a power being lawful in the first place.

Donger didn't say that the constitution authorized EOs explicitly. He just said that the constitution permitted them. You objected to his comment which led me to believe that you didn't think the constitution permitted them. If that's not your position then you should probably have agreed with Donger on that point (or at the very least you shouldn't have taken issue with his statement).

patteeu
02-20-2012, 05:04 PM
I'm not even talking about spending. I'm talking about this country's cultural mindset centered around the troops.

OK. You referenced #4 from dirk's fascist list which seemed to be primarily about funding so that's why I was confused. I see now that you were more focused on the last part of that item.

LiveSteam
02-20-2012, 05:24 PM
das einfädeln ist ganz von Opfertreffen

CoMoChief
02-20-2012, 05:28 PM
No, it's a simple acknowledgement that our enemies use the Internet to communicate. I suppose you'd rather our intel weenies not monitor the communication of our enemies?

Next?

LMAO watch out Donger. Al Qaeda might be hiding under your bed.

patteeu
02-20-2012, 05:31 PM
LMAO watch out Donger. Al Qaeda might be hiding under your bed.

Does a national security threat actually need to be under your bed for you to take it seriously?

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 05:33 PM
Does a national security threat actually need to be under your bed for you to take it seriously?

Cheney thinks so, so i'm guessing you would say yes.

Donger
02-20-2012, 05:37 PM
LMAO watch out Donger. Al Qaeda might be hiding under your bed.

Huh? Are you unaware that AQ and other Islamists use the Internet to communicate?

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 05:39 PM
Huh? Are you unaware that AQ and other Islamists use the Internet to communicate?

Grandmas use the internet too, shut it off. Alert Homeland security because the motherland is in peril.

Donger
02-20-2012, 05:42 PM
Grandmas use the internet too, shut it off. Alert Homeland security because the motherland is in peril.

I don't understand this. Do you people really not want to monitor what our enemies are doing?

LiveSteam
02-20-2012, 05:43 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qfResyFrqlM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 05:44 PM
I don't understand this. Do you people really not want to monitor what our enemies are doing?

Define enemies please, Al kaderz? The ones that work for us ..well sometimes.... just not when they're destroying our buildings.

Donger
02-20-2012, 05:47 PM
Define enemies please, Al kaderz? The ones that work for us ..well sometimes.... just not when they're destroying our buildings.

All those who wish to harm America and her people, obviously.

Ace Gunner
02-20-2012, 05:47 PM
Huh? Are you unaware that AQ and other Islamists use the Internet to communicate?

they use cars to deliver almost all bombs -- how are you planning to handle that medium of "terror" ???


hahahaha. plenty of answers from the fascist socialist.

Donger
02-20-2012, 05:50 PM
they use cars to deliver almost all bombs -- how are you planning to handle that medium of "terror" ???


hahahaha. plenty of answers from the fascist socialist.

Find out about their plans before the attack, by monitoring the communications, hopefully.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 05:56 PM
All those who wish to harm America and her people, obviously.

Well if this were the case almost all of our Politicians would receive a drone strike, you comfortable with that?

LiveSteam
02-20-2012, 05:58 PM
Well if this were the case almost all of our Politicians would receive a drone strike, you comfortable with that?

Is this a trick question?

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 06:00 PM
Is this a trick question?

See the economy, wars, barky, etc.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 06:17 PM
An Open Letter to President Obama from a Veteran

Posted by DTOM on February 20, 2012 at 5:56am

Feb 20, 2012 Posted by Adam in: Blog

http://www.adamvstheman.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-president-obama

Dear President Obama,

I am writing to you as just one veteran, just one man, but today, you may see that I am joined by many more. We gather today before you in support of Ron Paul and not because we think he would merely be a better administrator of government than you, but because we believe your policies to be fundamentally immoral. We are demanding peaceful, orderly change through the ballot box.

We are gathered here today as active duty service members and veterans exercising the right to self-expression that we all have risked our lives to protect. Something you’ve never done in uniform. The military you command has made attempts to silence us, not just in the existing codes and regulations intended to suppress the dissent in the ranks, but also in direct warnings that your officers have issued to the troops who would be with us today – who would speak out against the status quo – who would challenge the man – who would speak a desperately needed truth, to a desperately delusional power!

Do not think for one second that you can silence this voice! Do not dare whisper the command to silence this voice! Do not deny that Ron Paul is the choice of the troops! You are not wanted as, you are not respected as, and you are not fit to be, the commander-in-chief of this great force of America’s finest who would lay down their lives to defend you.

As you have warned us about petty regulations, I too have a warning for you, Mr. President. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way. If elections in this country are halfway fair or transparent, and the GOP supports the troops enough to listen to them, Ron Paul will be the nominee of the Republican Party and you will be a one term President!

But if they’re not. If the voice of the people is not heard and the voice of the troops is not respected, we’ll be back. These veterans aren’t going away. And if you should decide against what I have no doubt is your better judgement, that you can allow just one of these people here today to suffer for exercising the rights that you swore to defend when you took office, if we are denied the peaceful change we demand, I promise you this: we’re going to be doing this the hard way.

Yours in liberty,

Adam Kokesh

http://www.adamvstheman.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-president-obama

Donger
02-20-2012, 06:22 PM
An Open Letter to President Obama from a Veteran

Posted by DTOM on February 20, 2012 at 5:56am

Feb 20, 2012 Posted by Adam in: Blog

http://www.adamvstheman.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-president-obama

Dear President Obama,

I am writing to you as just one veteran, just one man, but today, you may see that I am joined by many more. We gather today before you in support of Ron Paul and not because we think he would merely be a better administrator of government than you, but because we believe your policies to be fundamentally immoral. We are demanding peaceful, orderly change through the ballot box.

We are gathered here today as active duty service members and veterans exercising the right to self-expression that we all have risked our lives to protect. Something you’ve never done in uniform. The military you command has made attempts to silence us, not just in the existing codes and regulations intended to suppress the dissent in the ranks, but also in direct warnings that your officers have issued to the troops who would be with us today – who would speak out against the status quo – who would challenge the man – who would speak a desperately needed truth, to a desperately delusional power!

Do not think for one second that you can silence this voice! Do not dare whisper the command to silence this voice! Do not deny that Ron Paul is the choice of the troops! You are not wanted as, you are not respected as, and you are not fit to be, the commander-in-chief of this great force of America’s finest who would lay down their lives to defend you.

As you have warned us about petty regulations, I too have a warning for you, Mr. President. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way. If elections in this country are halfway fair or transparent, and the GOP supports the troops enough to listen to them, Ron Paul will be the nominee of the Republican Party and you will be a one term President!

But if they’re not. If the voice of the people is not heard and the voice of the troops is not respected, we’ll be back. These veterans aren’t going away. And if you should decide against what I have no doubt is your better judgement, that you can allow just one of these people here today to suffer for exercising the rights that you swore to defend when you took office, if we are denied the peaceful change we demand, I promise you this: we’re going to be doing this the hard way.

Yours in liberty,

Adam Kokesh

http://www.adamvstheman.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-president-obama

Great. Another nut. Basically threatening POTUS that if Ron Paul isn't the GOP nominee, "the hard way" will be taken?

KILLER_CLOWN
02-20-2012, 06:23 PM
Great. Another nut. Basically threatening POTUS that if Ron Paul isn't the GOP nominee, "the hard way" will be taken?

I don't know him personally, so i'm not sure what the hard way is.

Donger
02-20-2012, 06:31 PM
I don't know him personally, so i'm not sure what the hard way is.

Probably lots and lots of YouTube videos.

SuperChief
02-21-2012, 01:22 AM
Wish we could all be sheeple like Mr. Donger. Then every pill from the government would be easier to swallow.

What's it like hating America?

VAChief
02-21-2012, 06:08 AM
Great. Another nut. Basically threatening POTUS that if Ron Paul isn't the GOP nominee, "the hard way" will be taken?

Careful, you might be labeled a "PTS" or worse yet "Suppressive Person."

Amnorix
02-21-2012, 07:17 AM
An Open Letter to President Obama from a Veteran

Posted by DTOM on February 20, 2012 at 5:56am

Feb 20, 2012 Posted by Adam in: Blog

http://www.adamvstheman.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-president-obama

Dear President Obama,

I am writing to you as just one veteran, just one man, but today, you may see that I am joined by many more. We gather today before you in support of Ron Paul and not because we think he would merely be a better administrator of government than you, but because we believe your policies to be fundamentally immoral. We are demanding peaceful, orderly change through the ballot box.

We are gathered here today as active duty service members and veterans exercising the right to self-expression that we all have risked our lives to protect. Something you’ve never done in uniform. The military you command has made attempts to silence us, not just in the existing codes and regulations intended to suppress the dissent in the ranks, but also in direct warnings that your officers have issued to the troops who would be with us today – who would speak out against the status quo – who would challenge the man – who would speak a desperately needed truth, to a desperately delusional power!

Do not think for one second that you can silence this voice! Do not dare whisper the command to silence this voice! Do not deny that Ron Paul is the choice of the troops! You are not wanted as, you are not respected as, and you are not fit to be, the commander-in-chief of this great force of America’s finest who would lay down their lives to defend you.

As you have warned us about petty regulations, I too have a warning for you, Mr. President. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way. If elections in this country are halfway fair or transparent, and the GOP supports the troops enough to listen to them, Ron Paul will be the nominee of the Republican Party and you will be a one term President!

But if they’re not. If the voice of the people is not heard and the voice of the troops is not respected, we’ll be back. These veterans aren’t going away. And if you should decide against what I have no doubt is your better judgement, that you can allow just one of these people here today to suffer for exercising the rights that you swore to defend when you took office, if we are denied the peaceful change we demand, I promise you this: we’re going to be doing this the hard way.

Yours in liberty,

Adam Kokesh

http://www.adamvstheman.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-president-obama



I mean this in all seriousness -- did he just threaten the POTUS? He sounds like he's advocating for an armed uprising. JFC...

Amnorix
02-21-2012, 07:19 AM
Great. Another nut. Basically threatening POTUS that if Ron Paul isn't the GOP nominee, "the hard way" will be taken?


Seriously... I see you beat me to the punch on this.

I don't know him personally, so i'm not sure what the hard way is.


Don't know, but it might involve a side trip to Leavenworth if this fool isn't careful.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-21-2012, 08:07 AM
Seriously... I see you beat me to the punch on this.




Don't know, but it might involve a side trip to Leavenworth if this fool isn't careful.

One thing we're pretty sure it isn't is dinner and a movie.

kchero
02-21-2012, 08:35 AM
Great. Another nut. Basically threatening POTUS that if Ron Paul isn't the GOP nominee, "the hard way" will be taken?

I mean this in all seriousness -- did he just threaten the POTUS? He sounds like he's advocating for an armed uprising. JFC...

God forbid someone actually speak up against their government.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 08:38 AM
I see the quote of patteeu using his favorite phony govt statistitic—GDP—to show how military spending isn't that much. So much for being a libertarian, even with a small "l". That is statism.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 08:40 AM
I didn't say the EOs were mentioned in the Constitution, dork.

You said it "permitted" them, though. That implies they're in there in some way and in any way. They're not.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 08:46 AM
Wait, we're Nazis now? I thought the imminent threat was that we were turning into Communists?

They're both socialists. There's different kinds. You could say we're a Corporatocracy too. In fact, technically, Obama is a Corporatist.

The Republicans are the National Socialists and the Democrats or the left are the International Socialists. ( See the Obama Regime's demand for global tax via the UN.)

Amnorix
02-21-2012, 08:59 AM
God forbid someone actually speak up against their government.



Someone in the MILITARY? :spock:

Amnorix
02-21-2012, 09:03 AM
They're both socialists. There's different kinds. You could say we're a Corporatocracy too. In fact, technically, Obama is a Corporatist.

The Republicans are the National Socialists and the Democrats or the left are the International Socialists. ( See the Obama Regime's demand for global tax via the UN.)


..says the woman who doesn't even know what "means of production" means. BEP, the label loving loony.


"Socialist"

"Corporatocracy"

"Corporatist"

"National Socialist"

"International Socialist"

patteeu
02-21-2012, 09:40 AM
I see the quote of patteeu using his favorite phony govt statistitic—GDP—to show how military spending isn't that much. So much for being a libertarian, even with a small "l". That is statism.

I see the quote of BEP saying something idiotic as usual.

patteeu
02-21-2012, 09:41 AM
You said it "permitted" them, though. That implies they're in there in some way and in any way. They're not.

Does the constitution permit the President to take vacations with his family?

Amnorix
02-21-2012, 10:03 AM
Does the constitution permit the President to take vacations with his family?


Shut it you evil Statist, Socialist, Corporatist, Marxist, RINO, Neo-Con Militarist!

Lzen
02-21-2012, 12:32 PM
You mean like the 40 trillion idiots on Facebook demanding that people remove any Whitney Houston remembrance and instead honor "the troops"?

I don't know about that, but I did see someone post about being against putting flags at half staff for Houston. Rather, save that for military. I agree with that. If someone is calling for setting flags at half staff for Whitney Houston, that's just wrong.

Lzen
02-21-2012, 12:37 PM
I mean this in all seriousness -- did he just threaten the POTUS? He sounds like he's advocating for an armed uprising. JFC...

Geez, you must have thighs the size of a 6000 ton grasshopper to make that kind of leap from "do this the hard way" to armed uprising. :eek:

patteeu
02-21-2012, 12:38 PM
Geez, you must have thighs the size of a 6000 ton grasshopper to make that kind of leap from "do this the hard way" to armed uprising. :eek:

What's your interpretation?

patteeu
02-21-2012, 12:41 PM
Speaking of fascism and making comparisons to nazis (as BEP did), does anyone see any similarity between Hitler's cult of personality and Ron Paul's?

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 12:45 PM
It's spin to call support for Paul related to personality—it's a movement of ideas. It's not about Paul, himself, at all. So it is not at all a cult of personality and we already debated this. His movement will continue after he is gone. His candidacy is part of the broader "Campaign for Liberty."

Cheney worship fits more into a cult of personality. I supposed you could lump him into Globalism and the striving for World Govt movement though. It would fit.

Lzen
02-21-2012, 12:57 PM
What's your interpretation?

I don't think there's any way to know for sure what the guy meant. Could he have meant taking up arms against the government? Yes. But he could also just as easily meant a grass roots voter education campaign against POTUS.

Lzen
02-21-2012, 12:57 PM
Speaking of fascism and making comparisons to nazis (as BEP did), does anyone see any similarity between Hitler's cult of personality and Ron Paul's?

Not even close.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-21-2012, 01:12 PM
Speaking of fascism and making comparisons to nazis (as BEP did), does anyone see any similarity between Hitler's cult of personality and Ron Paul's?

If you did you're more brainwashed than i had thought.

Donger
02-21-2012, 01:15 PM
Speaking of fascism and making comparisons to nazis (as BEP did), does anyone see any similarity between Hitler's cult of personality and Ron Paul's?

http://www.vulture-bookz.de/imagebank/Propaganda/images/1932-07~Reichstagswahl_(NSDAP).jpg

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 01:29 PM
You don't have to be Hitler to support fascist ideas. I mean the 24 columns at our Supreme Court are courtesy of Mussolini too. Benito would be proud of Bush, Cheney, Obama, Lindsey Graham and Bill Kristol & Company.

Remember it was patteeu back around 2006/2007 that admitted allowing ownerhship of property, such as a business, but excessively regulating it for egalitarian reasons and the public good was fascism and that it is on the left. The Republican party today sits on the left.

LiveSteam
02-21-2012, 02:22 PM
http://www.vulture-bookz.de/imagebank/Propaganda/images/1932-07~Reichstagswahl_(NSDAP).jpg

Our last hope

Nice



erheben Sie sich bis Leute nehmen Sie Ihr Land zurück, vor seinem(ihrem) zu spät,Stimme-Republikaner

patteeu
02-21-2012, 02:53 PM
You don't have to be Hitler to support fascist ideas. I mean the 24 columns at our Supreme Court are courtesy of Mussolini too. Benito would be proud of Bush, Cheney, Obama, Lindsey Graham and Bill Kristol & Company.

Remember it was patteeu back around 2006/2007 that admitted allowing ownerhship of property, such as a business, but excessively regulating it for egalitarian reasons and the public good was fascism and that it is on the left. The Republican party today sits on the left.

What did I "admit"?

patteeu
02-21-2012, 02:55 PM
It's spin to call support for Paul related to personality—it's a movement of ideas. It's not about Paul, himself, at all. So it is not at all a cult of personality and we already debated this. His movement will continue after he is gone. His candidacy is part of the broader "Campaign for Liberty."

Cheney worship fits more into a cult of personality. I supposed you could lump him into Globalism and the striving for World Govt movement though. It would fit.

I "admit" that Ron Paul's following is definitely a cult of personality.

patteeu
02-21-2012, 02:58 PM
Not even close.

Hitler's was more widespread, I suppose. But aside from that, the similarities are striking.

patteeu
02-21-2012, 03:02 PM
I don't think there's any way to know for sure what the guy meant. Could he have meant taking up arms against the government? Yes. But he could also just as easily meant a grass roots voter education campaign against POTUS.

Whatever he meant, it appears to be the opposite of "peaceful change". That doesn't seem to include the possibility of "grassroots voter education", unless you mean the kind of education that comes at the end of a gun.

SNR
02-21-2012, 04:23 PM
Speaking of fascism and making comparisons to nazis (as BEP did), does anyone see any similarity between Hitler's cult of personality and Ron Paul's?What? You're just trolling BEP, right?

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 04:38 PM
What? You're just trolling BEP, right?

No he's trolling Paul and his supporters too.

Amnorix
02-21-2012, 04:40 PM
Geez, you must have thighs the size of a 6000 ton grasshopper to make that kind of leap from "do this the hard way" to armed uprising. :eek:


So what is doing it the "hard way"?

Because when someone in the military says "we can do this the easy way or the hard way", the "hard way" usually involves pain of a physical sort.

patteeu
02-21-2012, 04:40 PM
What? You're just trolling BEP, right?

Not really. I don't think Ron Paul has much in common with Hitler (e.g. he's not nearly as good at public speaking as Hitler was), but in the sense that many of his followers seem to see Ron Paul in idealized form and consider him a political savior, I think it's a reasonable comparison.

patteeu
02-21-2012, 04:42 PM
No he's trolling Paul and his supporters too.

There are several reasonable Paul supporters around here.

Donger
02-21-2012, 04:42 PM
What? You're just trolling BEP, right?

Not speaking for patty, but did you see the NAZI propaganda poster above? Multiple Paul followers are on record as thinking and saying that "Ron Paul is our only hope!" and "Only Paul can save us!"

Just a simple truth.

Amnorix
02-21-2012, 04:43 PM
I don't think there's any way to know for sure what the guy meant. Could he have meant taking up arms against the government? Yes. But he could also just as easily meant a grass roots voter education campaign against POTUS.


But if they’re not. If the voice of the people is not heard and the voice of the troops is not respected, we’ll be back. These veterans aren’t going away. And if you should decide against what I have no doubt is your better judgement, that you can allow just one of these people here today to suffer for exercising the rights that you swore to defend when you took office, if we are denied the peaceful change we demand, I promise you this: we’re going to be doing this the hard way.

You get grass roots voter education campaign as the "hard way" out of that? Well, maybe I have 6,000 ton grasshopper thighs, or maybe you're naive.

Donger
02-21-2012, 04:43 PM
Not really. I don't think Ron Paul has much in common with Hitler (e.g. he's not nearly as good at public speaking as Hitler was)

LMAO

Donger
02-21-2012, 04:45 PM
So what is doing it the "hard way"?

Because when someone in the military says "we can do this the easy way or the hard way", the "hard way" usually involves pain of a physical sort.

I don't believe that this nutter is active military, FWIW.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 04:46 PM
Not speaking for patty, but did you see the NAZI propaganda poster above? Multiple Paul followers are on record as thinking and saying that "Ron Paul is our only hope!" and "Only Paul can save us!"

Just a simple truth.

He is the only one who is willing to just begin to restore the Republic. This is not on the agenda of any other candidate.

Donger
02-21-2012, 04:47 PM
He is the only one who is willing to just begin to restore the Republic. This is not on the agenda of any other candidate.

See SNR?

Amnorix
02-21-2012, 04:49 PM
He is the only one who is willing to just begin to restore the Republic. This is not on the agenda of any other candidate.


So, slightly rephrased: Only through Ron Paul can the Republic be saved. He is our hope and salvation for our once-great country.



But there's no Paul cult of personality...


:rolleyes:

SNR
02-21-2012, 04:58 PM
Not speaking for patty, but did you see the NAZI propaganda poster above? Multiple Paul followers are on record as thinking and saying that "Ron Paul is our only hope!" and "Only Paul can save us!"

Just a simple truth.So some of the more passionate (if a little myopic) supporters of a candidate are saying things like, "_______ is our only hope". Surely the only other time that has ever happened in history was at NSDAP meetings prior to 1933!

Yep. Ron Paul and Hitler. They're the only two guys who have ever had supporters that do that. Yep. Mmhmm.

Donger
02-21-2012, 05:00 PM
So some of the more passionate (if a little myopic) supporters of a candidate are saying things like, "_______ is our only hope". Surely the only other time that has ever happened in history was at NSDAP meetings prior to 1933!

Yep. Ron Paul and Hitler. They're the only two guys who have ever had supporters that do that. Yep. Mmhmm.

Not at all. Hero worship and messiah-like adoration pre-dates all that.

SNR
02-21-2012, 05:04 PM
Not at all. Hero worship and messiah-like adoration pre-dates all that.Pre-dates AND post-dates. You, "the historian" should know that.

Did all of those political leaders have Beer Hall Putschen?

Donger
02-21-2012, 05:05 PM
Pre-dates AND post-dates. You, "the historian" should know that.

Well, yeah. Which is why this discussion is taking place.

Did all of those political leaders have Beer Hall Putschen?

No.

SNR
02-21-2012, 05:07 PM
Well, yeah. Which is why this discussion is taking place.



No.Okay, I'll just come out and say it.

I'm trying to get you to diagnose "Hitler syndrome" to Ron Paul, Obama, Reagan, Kennedy, FDR, and thousands of other leaders throughout history with supporters who believed they were the only way.

If you do it, I'll shut up.

Donger
02-21-2012, 05:10 PM
Okay, I'll just come out and say it.

I'm trying to get you to diagnose "Hitler syndrome" to Ron Paul, Obama, Reagan, Kennedy, FDR, and thousands of other leaders throughout history with supporters who believed they were the only way.

If you do it, I'll shut up.

To a certain extent, yes with all of them. I don't recall the repeated expressions of "Only X can save us!" however, with either Obama or Reagan, which are the only two I've been around to witness.

SNR
02-21-2012, 05:25 PM
To a certain extent, yes with all of them. I don't recall the repeated expressions of "Only X can save us!" however, with either Obama or Reagan, which are the only two I've been around to witness.I'm saying it's disingenuous bullshit to say "RON PAUL SUPPORTERS ARE LIKE NAZIS!" and then ignore all the other supporters who tend to go overboard.

I offered you a way out by just claiming you were trolling some of the more tweakable Paulies on this forum.

Also, my last point on this matter is I'm sure the unemployed sci-fi geek who loves Ron Paul and made that photoshop of Ron Paul wearing a jedi cloak and carrying a lightsaber is floating his image around just like the NSDAP members would have floated around that Hitler poster in the 1920s. I'm sure the Hitler poster was some kind of cheap joke those Nazis made to get a few laughs from fellow Nazis on the internet.

Do you not see the difference?

Donger
02-21-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm saying it's disingenuous bullshit to say "RON PAUL SUPPORTERS ARE LIKE NAZIS!" and then ignore all the other supporters who tend to go overboard.

I offered you a way out by just claiming you were trolling some of the more tweakable Paulies on this forum.

Also, my last point on this matter is I'm sure the unemployed sci-fi geek who loves Ron Paul and made that photoshop of Ron Paul wearing a jedi cloak and carrying a lightsaber is floating his image around just like the NSDAP members would have floated around that Hitler poster in the 1920s. I'm sure the Hitler poster was some kind of cheap joke those Nazis made to get a few laughs from fellow Nazis on the internet.

Do you not see the difference?

I didn't say that. I was merely establishing the fact that some Paul followers engage in messiah-like worship of Paul, not unlike was done by many NAZIs about Hitler.

And, yes, I'm aware that the Obi Won Pauli graphic is a joke.

SNR
02-21-2012, 05:35 PM
I didn't say that. I was merely establishing the fact that some Paul followers engage in messiah-like worship of Paul, not unlike was done by many NAZIs about Hitler.

And, yes, I'm aware that the Obi Won Pauli graphic is a joke.And the Messiah-worship in politics happens all the goddamn time.

Donger
02-21-2012, 05:38 PM
And the Messiah-worship in politics happens all the goddamn time.

Yes, I'm over-whelmed at all the Romney worship. I wish they'd stop.

SNR
02-21-2012, 05:42 PM
Yes, I'm over-whelmed at all the Romney worship. I wish they'd stop.http://moneypennydd.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/obamaseal.jpg?w=604

An eagle in Obama's logo! Wasn't the eagle a big focal point of Nazi symbols?

Boy, it sure is striking how Obama supporters are just like the Nazis with their Messiah worship!

Donger
02-21-2012, 05:45 PM
http://moneypennydd.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/obamaseal.jpg?w=604

An eagle in Obama's logo! Wasn't the eagle a big focal point of Nazi symbols?

Boy, it sure is striking how Obama supporters are just like the Nazis with their Messiah worship!

Not really.

SNR
02-21-2012, 05:47 PM
LMAO

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 05:52 PM
Yes, I'm over-whelmed at all the Romney worship. I wish they'd stop.

There's a lack of passion for the man despite the votes he has received. Too bad for you.

But what about the America worship aka the cult of NeoCon America:
We're a force for good in the world. Thus we have a mission to save the world of all rogues and evil. Without American Empire the world is doomed. In the meantime instilling phobias in the people if we don't act or do otherwise and force the world to do things our way. That's the cult think right there.

Undoing state power, undoing global social engineering by not seeking monsters abroad to destroy as the force of good in the world and leaving different cultures and countries alone the opposite of a cult.

Donger
02-21-2012, 05:53 PM
We're a force for good. Thus we have a mission to save the world of all rogues and evil.

LMAO

Nice to see you have a sense of humor about it, honestly.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 05:55 PM
LMAO

Nice to see you have a sense of humor about it, honestly.

Are you kidding me? That idea was right out of Bush's Second Inaugural Address.
You really don't know what's been going on.

Donger
02-21-2012, 05:57 PM
Are you kidding me? That idea was right out of Bush's Second Inaugural Address.
You really don't know what's been going on.

Oh, I see you edited. But no, I thought you were being seriously funny.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 05:59 PM
...piece of crap couched in phony freedom rhetoric.

The Second Inaugural of George W. Bush

So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world....

Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom, and make their own way.

The great objective of ending tyranny is the concentrated work of generations. The difficulty of the task is no excuse for avoiding it. America's influence is not unlimited, but fortunately for the oppressed, America's influence is considerable, and we will use it confidently in freedom's cause. ...

We will persistently clarify the choice before every ruler and every nation: The moral choice between oppression, which is always wrong, and freedom, which is eternally right. America will not pretend that jailed dissidents prefer their chains, or that women welcome humiliation and servitude, or that any human being aspires to live at the mercy of bullies.

We will encourage reform in other governments by making clear that success in our relations will require the decent treatment of their own people....

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4460172

Donger
02-21-2012, 06:03 PM
...piece of crap couched in phony freedom rhetoric.

The Second Inaugural of George W. Bush



http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4460172

That's odd. I don't see anything in Bush's speech even remotely close to what you claimed he said.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 06:05 PM
I thought he also said somewhere "We're gonna make-over the world." Good Lord! This is the hero to some here.

And this also in the same Second Inaugural—Housing Socialism that led to the economic crisis and healthcare. Bush must be elated with Obama.

In America's ideal of freedom, citizens find the dignity and security of economic independence, instead of laboring on the edge of subsistence. This is the broader definition of liberty that motivated the Homestead Act, the Social Security Act, and the G.I. Bill of Rights. And now we will extend this vision by reforming great institutions to serve the needs of our time. To give every American a stake in the promise and future of our country, we will bring the highest standards to our schools, and build an ownership society. We will widen the ownership of homes and businesses, retirement savings and health insurance - preparing our people for the challenges of life in a free society. By making every citizen an agent of his or her own destiny, we will give our fellow Americans greater freedom from want and fear, and make our society more prosperous and just and equal.

This is the word "freedom" of Karl Marx. And he aims for it on an international scale too.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 06:07 PM
That's odd. I don't see anything in Bush's speech even remotely close to what you claimed he said.

Then the blind is leading the blind or you're not reading again. Clearly, Bush aimed to remake other nations so they will partake of his notion of freedom ( FDR and Marx-style).


So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world. ~ Bush's Second Inaugural

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 06:13 PM
Remember Donger, Napoleon believed in making over the world for his version of a New World Order too. Noticed how similar such thinkers are with regard to using war for such things. The Japanese thought they were liberating people too. Look at what they did. Use some critical thinking and make some connections.

Donger
02-21-2012, 06:20 PM
Then the blind is leading the blind or you're not reading again. Clearly, Bush aimed to remake other nations so they will partake of his notion of freedom ( FDR and Marx-style).

No, again, what Bush said doesn't resemble what you wrote at all. I don't see a problem with us promoting democracy at all.

Then again, you're nuts, so you probably see things that aren't there all the time.

Donger
02-21-2012, 06:21 PM
Remember Donger, Napoleon believed in making over the world for his version of a New World Order too. Noticed how similar such thinkers are with regard to using war for such things. The Japanese thought they were liberating people too. Look at what they did. Use some critical thinking and make some connections.

Are you really attempting to compare Bush promoting democracy to Napoleon and WWII Japan aggression?

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 06:30 PM
Are you really attempting to compare Bush promoting democracy to Napoleon and WWII Japan aggression?

Yes, let's reframe the argument with a strawman a l'orange. You already know what I think about democracy right?

"Democracy is the road to socialism."- Marx

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 06:33 PM
No, again, what Bush said doesn't resemble what you wrote at all. I don't see a problem with us promoting democracy at all.
Nope. It's just paraphrased. If you have a good reading comprehension and critical thinking abilities you can see it's the same message and goal.

Then again, you're nuts, so you probably see things that aren't there all the time.

Are you a member of the Fabian Society or something like that?

You are projecting and deflecting at the same time on this part.

Donger
02-21-2012, 06:34 PM
Yes, let's reframe the argument with a strawman a l'orange. You already know what I think about democracy right?

"Democracy is the road to socialism."- Marx

Marx was a kook, too. I'm not surprised that you agree with him.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 06:35 PM
Whooosh!

Donger
02-21-2012, 06:37 PM
Whooosh!

Simple question, BEP, which you won't answer:

Do you agree with Marx' statement that you just posted or not?

patteeu
02-21-2012, 07:04 PM
Okay, I'll just come out and say it.

I'm trying to get you to diagnose "Hitler syndrome" to Ron Paul, Obama, Reagan, Kennedy, FDR, and thousands of other leaders throughout history with supporters who believed they were the only way.

If you do it, I'll shut up.

Obama was similar to Hitler in that they were both skilled public speakers and they both used religion to manipulate people even though they weren't really believers.

GWBush and Hitler were similar in that they were both men with fairly attractive women in their lives.

Is that enough for now?

mikey23545
02-21-2012, 07:31 PM
No, again, what Bush said doesn't resemble what you wrote at all. I don't see a problem with us promoting democracy at all.

Then again, you're nuts, so you probably see things that aren't there all the time.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7973/coffeecrazedwomanthumb7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/coffeecrazedwomanthumb7.jpg/)

Can't you see it!!?!? Can't you see it!?!?

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 07:36 PM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8MoR-Asogyg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Donger
02-21-2012, 07:43 PM
I do think it's pretty funny that BEP is a Marxist, though.

Donger
02-21-2012, 07:43 PM
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7973/coffeecrazedwomanthumb7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/coffeecrazedwomanthumb7.jpg/)

Can't you see it!!?!? Can't you see it!?!?

Looks like my wife at the granite counter-top warehouse.

SNR
02-21-2012, 07:47 PM
Obama was similar to Hitler in that they were both skilled public speakers and they both used religion to manipulate people even though they weren't really believers.

GWBush and Hitler were similar in that they were both men with fairly attractive women in their lives.

Is that enough for now?It would be really interesting if you could come up with one for Winston Churchill :D

Donger
02-21-2012, 08:03 PM
otherstar, if you've something to say to me, please do it out here, okay?

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 08:45 PM
Awe, donger is whining about rep.

patteeu
02-21-2012, 08:53 PM
Awe, donger is whining about rep.

No, he isn't. I doubt that he cares about rep.

Donger
02-21-2012, 09:05 PM
Awe, donger is whining about rep.

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. I'd just prefer that people engage with me out here.

So, do you agree with Marx' statement or not?

BigChiefFan
02-21-2012, 09:18 PM
Paul's right. The rest of this conversation is a dog chasing his tail trying to convince others that they do know shit, when it's quite the contrary. Same ol, same ol.

BIG_DADDY
02-21-2012, 09:22 PM
We have 3 horrific top contenders for POTUS and people feel the need to cap on Paul? Unbelievable

otherstar
02-21-2012, 09:23 PM
otherstar, if you've something to say to me, please do it out here, okay?

I've already said what I have to say. You're a fool and you keep proving it to me and everyone else on this thread.

Donger
02-21-2012, 09:24 PM
I've already said what I have to say. You're a fool and you keep proving it to me and everyone else on this thread.

Good. Now, you don't think that Marx was a kook?

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 09:31 PM
Good. Now, you don't think that Marx was a kook?

You're the kook, since you have it on the brain so much. Obsessive about kooks. You know what that's a sign of right? You got it. A bad case of projection.

BucEyedPea
02-21-2012, 09:31 PM
I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. I'd just prefer that people engage with me out here.
Too bad this system isn't set up that way just for you.

otherstar
02-21-2012, 09:55 PM
Good. Now, you don't think that Marx was a kook?

It depends. The earlier Marx was actually a humanist philosopher heavily influenced by GWF Hegel and Ludwig Feuerbach. It wasn't until later in life that that his philosophy took a turn towards the socialist thought for which he is more well known.

The earlier Marx had some interesting things to say contra Hegel. The later Marx turned towards a philosophy and economic system I cannot endorse.

Donger
02-21-2012, 10:30 PM
It depends. The earlier Marx was actually a humanist philosopher heavily influenced by GWF Hegel and Ludwig Feuerbach. It wasn't until later in life that that his philosophy took a turn towards the socialist thought for which he is more well known.

The earlier Marx had some interesting things to say contra Hegel. The later Marx turned towards a philosophy and economic system I cannot endorse.

Interesting. I'd say that pretty much any hardcore socialist/communist is either nuts or is willingly denying some of the basic tenets of human nature.

Thank you for your response out here. It is appreciated.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-21-2012, 11:10 PM
GWBush and Hitler were similar in that they were both men with fairly attractive women in their lives.

Is that enough for now?

Jeff Gannon the male pornstar is an attractive woman?

http://www.georgewbushisgay.com/

patteeu
02-22-2012, 05:37 AM
Jeff Gannon the male pornstar is an attractive woman?

http://www.georgewbushisgay.com/

He's not my type, but if you're into him, that's cool.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-22-2012, 07:39 AM
He's not my type, but if you're into him, that's cool.

LMAO

He's ole Georgies type, at least Clinton had women at the White House.

patteeu
02-22-2012, 07:42 AM
LMAO

He's ole Georgies type, at least Clinton had women at the White House.

OK, whatever. Your non-sequitur is noted.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-22-2012, 07:44 AM
OK, whatever. Your non-sequitur is noted.

It's a disturbing trend the last two presidents have preferred men over women. The O and the W.

BucEyedPea
02-22-2012, 10:29 AM
It depends. The earlier Marx was actually a humanist philosopher heavily influenced by GWF Hegel and Ludwig Feuerbach. It wasn't until later in life that that his philosophy took a turn towards the socialist thought for which he is more well known.

The earlier Marx had some interesting things to say contra Hegel. The later Marx turned towards a philosophy and economic system I cannot endorse.

My understanding of Marx, from a Marxist teacher, is that he was more about transforming a society socially. Breakdown of the bourgeoisie family which is the traditional family structure: women out of the home, children reared by the state, alternative families, free love aka sexual freedom which leads to more broken families and that economics by destroying property rights was the road to creating all that by creating dependence on the state by all. So they wreck economies as that will make more people reach for a state solution, believe that markets don't work etc. Some call it cultural Marxism. Anyway, the economics was the means to the end and secondary.

Amnorix
02-22-2012, 10:45 AM
My understanding of Marx, from a Marxist teacher, is that he was more about transforming a society socially. Breakdown of the bourgeoisie family which is the traditional family structure: women out of the home, children reared by the state, alternative families, free love aka sexual freedom which leads to more broken families and that economics by destroying property rights was the road to creating all that by creating dependence on the state by all. So they wreck economies as that will make more people reach for a state solution, believe that markets don't work etc. Some call it cultural Marxism. Anyway, the economics was the means to the end and secondary.



Either you or your teacher was a kook then. You don't need to guess which one I'm betting on.

Otter
02-22-2012, 06:16 PM
I agree "fascism" isn't a proper term but if you look at bills like the NDAA it's setting up the government to be able to do as they please without restraint. Any bureaucratic institution doesn't just take what they want straight forward manner, they chip away at you like a poker player that has more money in his pot.

It's an art form to lie.

Argue the NDAA doesn't allow the government to imprison US Citizens without due process, which it really doesn't, but show the clause where it disallows it. You can't because there isn't any. It's an art form to lie.

VAChief
02-22-2012, 06:36 PM
It's a disturbing trend the last two presidents have preferred men over women. The O and the W.

I know you're just trying to get a rise out of Pat, but you "jumped the shark" here on this one. I wasn't a fan of W and we know Pat isn't a fan of O, but I feel fairly certain he wouldn't go down the pre-teen route of calling him gay.

With this as a standard, I suppose you would be equally disappointed if Paul becomes POTUS (after hell freezes over) and he continues this disturbing trend preferring David Duke over Patty Duke.

go bowe
02-22-2012, 07:55 PM
An Open Letter to President Obama from a Veteran

Posted by DTOM on February 20, 2012 at 5:56am

Feb 20, 2012 Posted by Adam in: Blog

http://www.adamvstheman.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-president-obama

Dear President Obama,

I am writing to you as just one veteran, just one man, but today, you may see that I am joined by many more. We gather today before you in support of Ron Paul and not because we think he would merely be a better administrator of government than you, but because we believe your policies to be fundamentally immoral. We are demanding peaceful, orderly change through the ballot box.

We are gathered here today as active duty service members and veterans exercising the right to self-expression that we all have risked our lives to protect. Something you’ve never done in uniform. The military you command has made attempts to silence us, not just in the existing codes and regulations intended to suppress the dissent in the ranks, but also in direct warnings that your officers have issued to the troops who would be with us today – who would speak out against the status quo – who would challenge the man – who would speak a desperately needed truth, to a desperately delusional power!

Do not think for one second that you can silence this voice! Do not dare whisper the command to silence this voice! Do not deny that Ron Paul is the choice of the troops! You are not wanted as, you are not respected as, and you are not fit to be, the commander-in-chief of this great force of America’s finest who would lay down their lives to defend you.

As you have warned us about petty regulations, I too have a warning for you, Mr. President. We can do this the easy way, or the hard way. If elections in this country are halfway fair or transparent, and the GOP supports the troops enough to listen to them, Ron Paul will be the nominee of the Republican Party and you will be a one term President!

But if they’re not. If the voice of the people is not heard and the voice of the troops is not respected, we’ll be back. These veterans aren’t going away. And if you should decide against what I have no doubt is your better judgement, that you can allow just one of these people here today to suffer for exercising the rights that you swore to defend when you took office, if we are denied the peaceful change we demand, I promise you this: we’re going to be doing this the hard way.

Yours in liberty,

Adam Kokesh

http://www.adamvstheman.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-president-obama

koresh?

i thought he turned into a crispy critter in waco...

go bowe
02-22-2012, 08:05 PM
Obama was similar to Hitler in that they were both skilled public speakers and they both used religion to manipulate people even though they weren't really believers.

GWBush and Hitler were similar in that they were both men with fairly attractive women in their lives.

Is that enough for now?

eva braun?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

JohnnyV13
02-22-2012, 08:38 PM
Remember Donger, Napoleon believed in making over the world for his version of a New World Order too. Noticed how similar such thinkers are with regard to using war for such things. The Japanese thought they were liberating people too. Look at what they did. Use some critical thinking and make some connections.

Why don't you try using some critical thinking instead of parroting what you get from LewRockwell.com (who, btw, used to be Ron Paul's chief of staff and will likely get a very nice appointment in a Paul administration).

Notice how Ron Paul's caucus strategy is for his people to stay at caucus meetings and try to win the delegate election. And, if a Ron Paul supporter wins the election they will simply vote for Ron Paul instead of voting for what the majority of their caucus wanted (which is the way the caucus is supposed to be). This is why Paul might have more caucus delegates despite the election results.

Gee...doesn't that sound pretty condescending. "Lets forget about representing the schlubs who voted, we know better. Ron Paul is what they need."

Does that remind you of how someone else seized power, a guy who never won a majority of votes before seizing control of a republic? Meanwhile, you and the other Ron Paul zombies are worried the GOP will "steal" the nomination from Paul.

But, hey, its Ron Paul. He's incorruptable. Anything he does has to be right and moral.

BucEyedPea
02-22-2012, 10:27 PM
I didn't get that from Lew. I've said that before and it is critical thinking whether you agree with it or not. Nice try at slammin'.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-22-2012, 10:30 PM
I know you're just trying to get a rise out of Pat, but you "jumped the shark" here on this one. I wasn't a fan of W and we know Pat isn't a fan of O, but I feel fairly certain he wouldn't go down the pre-teen route of calling him gay.

With this as a standard, I suppose you would be equally disappointed if Paul becomes POTUS (after hell freezes over) and he continues this disturbing trend preferring David Duke over Patty Duke.

Way out in left field you are, but yes between Bush and Obama having well known affairs with men and Paul having nothing to do with David Duke you are spot on.

go bowe
02-22-2012, 10:53 PM
Way out in left field you are, but yes between Bush and Obama having well known affairs with men and Paul having nothing to do with David Duke you are spot on.

affairs with men?

bub, you're so far out in left field that you're in the freakin parking lot...

i don't suppose you have a link to some crazy website that proves that assertion, do you?

patteeu
02-22-2012, 11:04 PM
eva braun?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

In this picture she looks fairly attractive, but when I googled her I found a bunch of pictures that look less so:

http://charlespaolino.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/hitler-hitler-and-eva-and-swastika.jpg

KILLER_CLOWN
02-22-2012, 11:14 PM
affairs with men?

bub, you're so far out in left field that you're in the freakin parking lot...

i don't suppose you have a link to some crazy website that proves that assertion, do you?

Barack Obama & Larry Sinclair: Cocaine, Sex, Lies & Murder?

http://www.amazon.com/Barack-Obama-Larry-Sinclair-Cocaine/dp/0578013878

and Bush

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x3e9paM_hYo?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x3e9paM_hYo?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon

go bowe
02-22-2012, 11:55 PM
never heard of larry sinclair or whoever wrote a book (anybody can write a book and say whatever they like) about it...

maher is obviously joking about someone in the white house being gay he didn't say he meant the president himself...

in either case, serious or joke, these supposed affairs are hardly well known and far from proven...

i'm going to assume joke because i'm too tired to argue...

Donger
02-23-2012, 12:28 PM
LewRockwell.com (who, btw, used to be Ron Paul's chief of staff and will likely get a very nice appointment in a Paul administration).

Holy shit. Is that true? That friggin nutjob used to be Paul's CoS?

LMAO

KILLER_CLOWN
02-23-2012, 12:49 PM
Holy shit. Is that true? That friggin nutjob used to be Paul's CoS?

LMAO

We Mock what we do not understand.

go bowe
02-23-2012, 01:20 PM
We Mock what we do not understand.

eh, this is chiefs planet...

we mock everything without regard to race, religion or national origin (well, maybe kc native would dispute that)...

well, dave mocks religion...

and dannica is going to win the race...

otherstar
02-23-2012, 03:10 PM
My understanding of Marx, from a Marxist teacher, is that he was more about transforming a society socially. Breakdown of the bourgeoisie family which is the traditional family structure: women out of the home, children reared by the state, alternative families, free love aka sexual freedom which leads to more broken families and that economics by destroying property rights was the road to creating all that by creating dependence on the state by all. So they wreck economies as that will make more people reach for a state solution, believe that markets don't work etc. Some call it cultural Marxism. Anyway, the economics was the means to the end and secondary.

That's one interpretation of Marx. I think this is a mostly correct interpretation except I think Marx was more of an economic determinist. I read Marx as saying that economics is THE creative force in human development and therefore primary if revolution is to occur and that revolutions must occur if humanity is to evolve.

I don't really have time right now to dive into my own criticism of this line of thinking. Suffice it to say that I disagree with Marx almost entirely.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-23-2012, 03:11 PM
eh, this is chiefs planet...

we mock everything without regard to race, religion or national origin (well, maybe kc native would dispute that)...

well, dave mocks religion...

and dannica is going to win the race...

Slow and Steady wins that one.

VAChief
02-23-2012, 04:50 PM
Way out in left field you are, but yes between Bush and Obama having well known affairs with men and Paul having nothing to do with David Duke you are spot on.

Most of us don't count the visions and voices in other people's heads as "well known."

LiveSteam
02-23-2012, 05:30 PM
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/418285_2704743103313_1398833693_32035442_1775597303_n.jpg

KILLER_CLOWN
02-23-2012, 11:07 PM
Most of us don't count the visions and voices in other people's heads as "well known."

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Amnorix
02-24-2012, 10:05 AM
Where there is smoke, there is fire.



Or, you know, a smoke machine

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Smoke_Machine.jpg



It's amazing that you can't believe simple stuff, but the more ludicrous the assertion, the more believable it becomes in your mind.

VAChief
02-24-2012, 02:22 PM
Where there is smoke, there is fire.

What smoke? Again, conjured up in your head doesn't count. You have no problem believing the racist letters in the Ron Paul newsletters have zero connection with his beliefs or actions (by the way I don't assume it means it fits his beliefs either), but you are willing to throw away reason and cast derision on the past two POTUS with some wild claims of being "the gay" that hasn't been seen anywhere with the slightest credibility...I haven't seen it anywhere on even the questionable, highly partisan sites either.

patteeu
02-24-2012, 02:25 PM
What smoke? Again, conjured up in your head doesn't count. You have no problem believing the racist letters in the Ron Paul newsletters have zero connection with his beliefs or actions (by the way I don't assume it means it fits his beliefs either), but you are willing to throw away reason and cast derision on the past two POTUS with some wild claims of being "the gay" that hasn't been seen anywhere with the slightest credibility...I haven't seen it anywhere on even the questionable, highly partisan sites either.

His willingness to believe is amazing.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-24-2012, 02:38 PM
What smoke? Again, conjured up in your head doesn't count. You have no problem believing the racist letters in the Ron Paul newsletters have zero connection with his beliefs or actions (by the way I don't assume it means it fits his beliefs either), but you are willing to throw away reason and cast derision on the past two POTUS with some wild claims of being "the gay" that hasn't been seen anywhere with the slightest credibility...I haven't seen it anywhere on even the questionable, highly partisan sites either.

Well because it's really irrelevant, it only makes for good conversation on message boards.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-24-2012, 02:39 PM
His willingness to believe is amazing.

You've come full circle, Believer in Cheney and all of his nuttiness.