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Nzoner
02-28-2012, 04:37 PM
Not to take anything away from KU(if not for you the conference is all suckage),however,I had to check the facts given on Petro's show today with Doug Gottlieb(sp?)

The Big 12/8 has only been represented in the Championship game twice in the last 20 years(both KU) and has the one win in 2008.

Also commented on although 8 straight conference titles is impressive there's no way to negate the fact that the conference is just not all that.

NCAA Basketball Tournament Winners

Year Winner Opponent Score

2011 Connecticut Butler 53-41
2010 Duke Butler 61-59
2009 North Carolina Michigan State 89-72
2008 Kansas Memphis 75-68
2007 Florida Ohio State 84-75
2006 Florida UCLA 73-57
2005 North Carolina Illinois 75-70
2004 Connecticut Georgia Tech 82-73
2003 Syracuse Kansas 81-78
2002 Maryland Indiana 64-52
2001 Duke Arizona 82-72
2000 Michigan State Florida 89-76
1999 Connecticut Duke 77-74
1998 Kentucky Utah 78-69
1997 Arizona Kentucky 84-79 (OT)
1996 Kentucky Syracuse 76-67
1995 UCLA Arkansas 89-78
1994 Arkansas Duke 76-72
1993 North Carolina Michigan 77-71
1992 Duke Michigan 71-51

Nzoner
02-28-2012, 04:49 PM
Even more depressing for a Big 12/8 fan is other than KU vs. Oklahoma in '88 the conference is once again just a blip in the big picture until the late 40's/early 50's.

1991 Duke Kansas 72-65
1990 UNLV Duke 103-73
1989 Michigan Seton Hall 80-79 (OT)
1988 Kansas Oklahoma 83-79
1987 Indiana Syracuse 74-73
1986 Louisville Duke 72-69
1985 Villanova Georgetown 66-64
1984 Georgetown Houston 84-75
1983 NC State Houston 54-52
1982 North Carolina Georgetown 63-62
1981 Indiana North Carolina 63-50
1980 Louisville UCLA 59-54
1979 Michigan St. Indiana St. 75-64
1978 Kentucky Duke 94-88
1977 Marquette North Carolina 67-59
1976 Indiana Michigan 86-68
1975 UCLA Kentucky 92-85
1974 NC State Marquette 76-64
1973 UCLA Memphis 87-66
1972 UCLA Florida St. 81-76
1971 UCLA Villanova 68-62
1970 UCLA Jacksonville 80-69
1969 UCLA Purdue 92-72
1968 UCLA North Carolina 78-55
1967 UCLA Dayton 79-64
1966 UTEP Kentucky 72-65
1965 UCLA Michigan 91-80
1964 UCLA Duke 98-83
1963 Loyola (Ill.) Cincinnati 60-58 (OT)
1962 Cincinnati Ohio State 71-59
1961 Cincinnati Ohio State 70-65 (OT)
1960 Ohio State California 75-55
1959 California West Virginia 71-70
1958 Kentucky Seattle 84-72
1957 North Carolina Kansas 54-53 (3 OT)
1956 San Francisco Iowa 83-71
1955 San Francisco La Salle 76-73
1954 La Salle Bradley 92-76
1953 Indiana Kansas 69-68
1952 Kansas St. John's 80-63
1951 Kentucky Kansas St. 68-58
1950 CCNY Bradley 71-68
1949 Kentucky Oklahoma St. 46-36
1948 Kentucky Baylor 58-42
1947 Holy Cross Oklahoma 58-47
1946 Oklahoma A&M North Carolina 43-40
1945 Oklahoma A&M NYU 49-45
1944 Utah Dartmouth 42-40 (OT)
1943 Wyoming Georgetown 46-34
1942 Stanford Dartmouth 53-38
1941 Wisconsin Washington St. 39-34
1940 Indiana Kansas 60-42
1939 Oregon Ohio State 46-33

Stewie
02-28-2012, 04:51 PM
And a mid-major conference is awesome because Butler has been to the NC the past two years?

I don't get it.

The ACC has two basketball powerhouses in Duke and NC. So what? For the most part the rest of that conference sucks with an occasional one-year wonder.

Using your logic, ALL conferences suck except for the programs that win a NC.

noa
02-28-2012, 04:54 PM
Big 12 is the #2 conference this year according to KenPom.
Posted via Mobile Device

BigRock
02-28-2012, 05:10 PM
You can make an argument for anything depending on what stats you want to use.

For example, if I wanted to say "The Big 12 is a pretty good basketball conference", I'd list conferences by the amount of Final Four teams they've had in the last decade.

Big East: 5 (Syracuse, UConn, Georgetown, Villanova, West Virgina)
Big 12: 4 (Kansas, Texas, OU, OK State)
Big 10: 4 (Indiana, Illinois, Michigan State, Ohio State)
ACC: 4 (Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland)
SEC: 3 (Florida, LSU, Kentucky)
CUSA: 3 (Marquette, Louisville, Memphis)
Colonial: 2 (George Mason, VCU)
Pac-10: 1 (UCLA)
Horizon: 1 (Butler)

Or those same conferences by the amount of championship teams in that span:

ACC: 3 (Maryland, Carolina, Duke)
Big East: 2 (Syracuse, UConn)
Big 12: 1 (Kansas)
SEC: 1 (Florida)
Big 10: 0
Pac-10: 0
CUSA: 0
Colonial: 0
Horizon: 0

kstater
02-28-2012, 06:04 PM
Conference sucks so bad, Missouri should be a lock for league title.

Guru
02-28-2012, 07:28 PM
So this is the new battle cry for MU. Our conference is better than your conference.

How many times has MU been to the Final Four again? :)

Chocolate Hog
02-28-2012, 07:30 PM
Big 12 is the #2 conference this year according to KenPom.
Posted via Mobile Device

Who's #1?

Trevo_410
02-28-2012, 07:40 PM
So this is the new battle cry for MU. Our conference is better than your conference.

How many times has MU been to the Final Four again? :)

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH I'M A MIZZOU FAN AND I WHINE A LOT!!!!

WAAAAAHHHHHHH ESPECIALLY IF I'm BRINGING FACTS TO THE TABLE

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

BUTTHURT IS WHAT I IS

Ultra Peanut
02-28-2012, 07:42 PM
Join us in the Big East plx

Nzoner
02-28-2012, 08:11 PM
So this is the new battle cry for MU. Our conference is better than your conference.

How many times has MU been to the Final Four again? :)

Oh fock dude c'mon this is nothing of the like,did you read my full OP.I simply heard something on the radio went on a search to find the facts and was like wow I didn't realize that.

Guru
02-28-2012, 08:11 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH I'M A MIZZOU FAN AND I WHINE A LOT!!!!

WAAAAAHHHHHHH ESPECIALLY IF I'm BRINGING FACTS TO THE TABLE

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

BUTTHURT IS WHAT I IS

LMAO You don't know me very well if you think this thread caused me any hurt at all.

I'm just having a little fun with my friend Nzoner.

Nzoner
02-28-2012, 08:16 PM
Once again let me CLARIFY this was not about bashing anyone,hell as hard as it was I actually gave KU props.I just don't follow NCAA history like I do the NFL and when I heard the conversation today decided to do a little fact finding myself.

Lzen
02-28-2012, 10:06 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH I'M A MIZZOU FAN AND I WHINE A LOT!!!!

WAAAAAHHHHHHH ESPECIALLY IF I'm BRINGING FACTS TO THE TABLE

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

BUTTHURT IS WHAT I IS

I wonder if you're this big a douche in real life. :hmmm:

Lzen
02-28-2012, 10:08 PM
Nzoner,

I don't think you can judge how good a conference is by how many titles it has won. I think it's more telling of how a conference's teams have fared against other conferences in all the out of conference games. By that standard, the Big 12 is typically in the top 2 or 3.

DrunkBassGuitar
02-28-2012, 10:49 PM
the big 12 is such a shitty conference that only 3 of the top 10 teams in men's basketball are from the big 12.

Nzoner
02-28-2012, 11:13 PM
Nzoner,

I don't think you can judge how good a conference is by how many titles it has won. I think it's more telling of how a conference's teams have fared against other conferences in all the out of conference games. By that standard, the Big 12 is typically in the top 2 or 3.

Like mentioned earlier anyone can back up anything depending on what stats they want to look at.I see your point as I see the others and maybe if the stars align just right we can have another year where two Big 12/8 teams get to meet for the NC :)

Bambi
02-28-2012, 11:19 PM
hmmmm.... good thread here

Trevo_410
02-28-2012, 11:27 PM
the big 12 is such a shitty conference that only 2 of the top 10 teams in men's basketball are from the big 12.

FYP, Mizzou is repping SEC.

KILLER_CLOWN
02-28-2012, 11:45 PM
FYP, Mizzou is repping SEC.

Not until June.

DrunkBassGuitar
02-29-2012, 12:08 AM
FYP, Mizzou is repping SEC.

they're still a big 12 team.

noa
02-29-2012, 07:24 AM
Who's #1?

Big 10
Posted via Mobile Device

Garcia Bronco
02-29-2012, 07:37 AM
Not to take anything away from KU(if not for you the conference is all suckage),however,I had to check the facts given on Petro's show today with Doug Gottlieb(sp?)

The Big 12/8 has only been represented in the Championship game twice in the last 20 years(both KU) and has the one win in 2008.

Also commented on although 8 straight conference titles is impressive there's no way to negate the fact that the conference is just not all that.

NCAA Basketball Tournament Winners

Year Winner Opponent Score

2011 Connecticut Butler 53-41
2010 Duke Butler 61-59
2009 North Carolina Michigan State 89-72
2008 Kansas Memphis 75-68
2007 Florida Ohio State 84-75
2006 Florida UCLA 73-57
2005 North Carolina Illinois 75-70
2004 Connecticut Georgia Tech 82-73
2003 Syracuse Kansas 81-78
2002 Maryland Indiana 64-52
2001 Duke Arizona 82-72
2000 Michigan State Florida 89-76
1999 Connecticut Duke 77-74
1998 Kentucky Utah 78-69
1997 Arizona Kentucky 84-79 (OT)
1996 Kentucky Syracuse 76-67
1995 UCLA Arkansas 89-78
1994 Arkansas Duke 76-72
1993 North Carolina Michigan 77-71
1992 Duke Michigan 71-51


Maybe, but IMO the NCAA champ is not the best team in the land, or rather a team could win it and not be the best team in the land. Kansas has done well every year and is a tough team to beat every year. That's pretty good. As far as the conferences; The Big East and ACC are considered the toughest, but that's hardly an indicator of who will win a game,

ChiTown
02-29-2012, 07:47 AM
FYP, Mizzou is repping SEC.

LMAO - God, you muTT fans are so dorky.

Nzoner
02-29-2012, 07:55 AM
Maybe, but IMO the NCAA champ is not the best team in the land, or rather a team could win it and not be the best team in the land. Kansas has done well every year and is a tough team to beat every year. That's pretty good. As far as the conferences; The Big East and ACC are considered the toughest, but that's hardly an indicator of who will win a game,

I absolutely agree and also think this argument can be made for the NFL,MLB etc. however,he who holds the trophy in the end is considered the best team in the land.

the Talking Can
02-29-2012, 07:59 AM
Big 12 is consistently one of the best conference in basketball....just because MU blows doesn't mean the rest of the conference does

Mr. Plow
02-29-2012, 08:13 AM
Eh....


http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/50250/on-kansass-ridiculous-big-12-title-streak


When you think about it, we Americans have a rather strange way of deciding our champions. We have tournaments, playoffs, best-of-seven series (unless, of course, we're talking about college football, which, let's not), all of which operate under one fundamental premise: Elimination competition is the best way to determine each season's most deserving champion.

This format is so ubiquitous -- and, let's be clear, so universally awesome -- that it's easy to forget ours isn't the only way to do things. (USA! USA!) For one obvious example, see the English Premier League. Each of the league's teams play an equal number of regular-season games (http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/league-table.html/). You get three points for a win, one point for a draw, and zero points for a loss. At the end of the season, the team with the most points is the champion. The nearly eight-month season doesn't lead up to a playoff format; the league standings aren't merely used for seeding or bracketing. The season is the championship.

It can occasionally be anticlimactic (English and European soccer has plenty of elimination-format competitions, like the FA Cup and the Champions' League, so there are always thrills to be had elsewhere in case the league race widens), but you can't argue that it's unfair. The season is the largest sample size available, and the team that emerges atop the league table could never be considered a fluke. If you win the Premier League silverware, you're the best, and no one can dispute it.

Compare that to, say, college basketball. We play all these games, settle all these conference regular season titles and tournaments, all for the purpose of ordering everyone into one big 68-team field where, to be frank, things go crazy. This is why we love the NCAA tournament. I think it's the best sports competition in the world precisely for these reasons. But one side effect of its wackadoodle awesomeness is that it can make us forget just how good some of its victims really are.

Which brings us, of course, to the Kansas Jayhawks (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2305/kansas-jayhawks).

It wasn't so long ago -- March 2008, to be exact -- when Kansas coach Bill Self found himself under no small amount of fan base pressure to finally win a national title. Kansas, both before Self and during his tenure, had developed a scoff-worthy reputation among casual fans as a perennial tournament flop -- the No. 1 seed you couldn't afford to pick in your bracket, the No. 1 seed that would be upset somewhere along the line. When Kansas took on Davidson star Steph Curry in the 2008 Elite Eight, it's no stretch to say that a loss would have made caused a full-fledged fan freakout. Self's impressive tenure to that point -- four-straight Big 12 titles, back-to-back 30-win seasons, the continuation of Roy Williams's nonstop recruiting machine, and so on -- may well have been have been lost in the fray.

Instead, Kansas held on to beat Davidson, Derrick Rose's free throws missed, Mario's Miracle didn't, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Four years later, it's clear there is no magic upset "hump" to clear, no one-time mental block, no demons to exorcise. Self's Kansas team has been upset in all three two out of three tournaments since 2008, including 2010's second-round loss to UNI and last year's Elite Eight defeat to that scorching VCU team. But after Saturday's win over Missouri, it seems like now might be the time to take a step back, consider Self's accomplishments at Kansas, and shake our heads in awe. Because this program just keeps winning.

Saturday's win sealed Kansas's share of the 2012 Big 12 regular-season title. This feat marks the eighth straight time Kansas has won at least a share its conference regular-season championship. After Saint Mary's strong finish in the West Coast Conference, which felled Gonzaga's bid at an 11th straight WCC title, KU's mark is now the longest active win streak in the country. Per ESPN Stats & Information, the next-longest are, or were, Xavier's five-year run in the A-10 (which is coming to an end this week) and Murray State and Belmont's three-year runs in the OVC and A-Sun, respectively.

The Atlantic 10 is a good league. The OVC and A-Sun occasionally berth a challenger or two. Saint Mary's has pushed Gonzaga for years. But none of those leagues are as consistently deep or talented or difficult to navigate as the Big 12.

At various times in Kansas's run, the Big 12 has been the best or second-best conference in the country. (Per Ken Pomeroy, that's the case again this year; the Big 12 ranks behind only the Big 10 in overall strength (http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=B12).) At various times in Self's tenure, his competition has recruited and rostered the likes of Kevin Durant, Michael Beasley, Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge, Acie Law, Tristan Thompson, James Anderson, Tony Allen, and D.J Augustin -- and that's literally just the NBA guys that first came to mind. I'm sure there are countless more worthy of inclusion, including future lottery picks like Perry Jones III (http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/51237/perry-jones-iii), or stars like Jacob Pullen, or Missouri's unique lightning-in-a-bottle squad this season.

But despite all that, Self has managed to recruit the Jayhawks as well as any coach who came before him. In many years, he's had an embarrassment of talented riches. The sheer fact that Thomas Robinson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/46114/thomas-robinson) came off the bench last season should tell you that much. But even in seasons in which Self lost scores of former stars -- like in 2011, when he lost Cole Aldrich, Xavier Henry and Sherron Collins, or this season, when he lost two-thirds of his starting backcourt and both starting forwards to graduation and/or the NBA draft, and lost two incoming freshmen to partial qualifier status in the offseason -- he's managed to get the Jayhawks to the top of the league anyway.

There may have been some NCAA tournament upsets along the way, and some have been more dramatic than others, but in the biggest sample sizes, against some of the best college hoops talent of the past decade, Self's Kansas program has prevailed. It's a ridiculous, mind-blowing run of success, and we don't talk about it enough.

At the end of the day, coaches are measured by national titles, and you get national titles by surviving the insane landmine that is the NCAA tournament. But when you peel back the March Madness and really dig in, this is what college hoops success looks like. In the past 10 years, few have done it better than Self.

KurtCobain
02-29-2012, 08:15 AM
I hear that conference in the south, kinda off to the east, isn't all that sucky.

Pasta Giant Meatball
02-29-2012, 08:19 AM
I hear that conference in the south, kinda off to the east, isn't all that sucky.

Shhhhhhh, you might boil some "blue blood :whackit:"

Bearcat
02-29-2012, 08:19 AM
I absolutely agree and also think this argument can be made for the NFL,MLB etc. however,he who holds the trophy in the end is considered the best team in the land.

I agree, since wild card teams and/or 9-7 teams have won the SB and WS. Over the past few years though, I think the NFL is all about the playoffs. IMO, there just aren't enough great regular season games, and not much is really determined at the end of the regular season.

OTOH, I think CBB's regular season and conference tournaments are at least just as entertaining and meaningful as March Madness... there are a lot of great games, there are clear conference winners and losers (as opposed to say, the AFCW), and you have a good idea of which teams are the best. March Madness is just when the crazy begins... it's entertaining for what it is, and it's definitely a great experience to watch your team go deep into the tournament and win it, but IMO it's not the only measuring stick, like Super Bowl rings.

Brainiac
02-29-2012, 08:24 AM
The good news is the Big 12 will be a better conference next year (for obvious reasons).

Trevo_410
02-29-2012, 08:50 AM
Theres no obvious reasons coming to me right now... from any category worth judging a conference by.

Mr. Plow
02-29-2012, 09:14 AM
Theres no obvious reasons coming to me right now... from any category worth judging a conference by.


FOOOOOOOSBALLL!!!1!!

sedated
02-29-2012, 09:19 AM
Another reason they say that you can prove anything if you look at the right stat.

Pants
02-29-2012, 09:19 AM
Per Ken Pom:

2005 - 3rd
2006 - 6th
2007 - 6th
2008 - 1st
2009 - 4th
2010 - 2nd
2011 - 3rd
2012 - Currently 2nd

Winning ANY conference 8 times in a row is a huge deal. It's really not very surprising that jealous MU fans would stoop to lows such as these. Just sad.

Nzoner
02-29-2012, 09:23 AM
Per Ken Pom:

2005 - 3rd
2006 - 6th
2007 - 6th
2008 - 1st
2009 - 4th
2010 - 2nd
2011 - 3rd
2012 - Currently 2nd

Winning ANY conference 8 times in a row is a huge deal. It's really not very surprising that jealous MU fans would stoop to lows such as these. Just sad.

What's sad is that you didn't read the OP or your reading comprehension sucks.I don't believe Petro nor Gottlieb are MU fans and this MU fan actually gave KU props.

Pants
02-29-2012, 09:31 AM
What's sad is that you didn't read the OP or your reading comprehension sucks.I don't believe Petro nor Gottlieb are MU fans and this MU fan actually gave KU props.

Comon, man, nobody starts with "Not to take anything away from KU..." as a way to give props. You're really insulting everyone's intelligence if you expect people to believe you. There's only one reason you created this thread.

An average conference rank over the past 8 years (according to a completely objective source) of 3.3 is not exactly "sucky", wouldn't you agree?

Nzoner
02-29-2012, 09:36 AM
Comon, man, nobody starts with "Not to take anything away from KU..." as a way to give props. You're really insulting everyone's intelligence if you expect people to believe you. There's only one reason you created this thread.

An average conference rank over the past 8 years (according to a completely objective source) of 3.3 is not exactly "sucky", wouldn't you agree?

See,this is exactly why it's impossible to try and communicate with most beaker fans,you're damned if you do and damned if you don't,you fockers are worse than women.But hey you have a crystal ball and know my intentions so what the fock ever,good day.

Pasta Giant Meatball
02-29-2012, 09:39 AM
See,this is exactly why it's impossible to try and communicate with most beaker fans,you're damned if you do and damned if you don't,you fockers are worse than women.But hey you have a crystal ball and know my intentions so what the fock ever,good day.

How dare you post something an actual analyst pointed out. You big meanie!! He's gonna tell kenpom on you.

Pants
02-29-2012, 09:47 AM
See,this is exactly why it's impossible to try and communicate with most beaker fans,you're damned if you do and damned if you don't,you fockers are worse than women.But hey you have a crystal ball and know my intentions so what the fock ever,good day.

Am I making this communication impossible or something?I think we are communicating just fine. I'm just telling you how that OP would be perceived by anyone even remotely intellectually honest. When someone opens by saying "I don't mean to" or "I'm not trying to", it's usually the complete opposite.

Once again, what was the point of your OP if not to try (unsuccessfully, I might add) and discredit, to whatever degree, the amazing feat Bill Self and his KU teams have accomplished over the last 8 years?

T-post Tom
02-29-2012, 09:51 AM
Eh....


http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/50250/on-kansass-ridiculous-big-12-title-streak


When you think about it, we Americans have a rather strange way of deciding our champions. We have tournaments, playoffs, best-of-seven series (unless, of course, we're talking about college football, which, let's not), all of which operate under one fundamental premise: Elimination competition is the best way to determine each season's most deserving champion.

This format is so ubiquitous -- and, let's be clear, so universally awesome -- that it's easy to forget ours isn't the only way to do things. (USA! USA!) For one obvious example, see the English Premier League. Each of the league's teams play an equal number of regular-season games (http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/league-table.html/). You get three points for a win, one point for a draw, and zero points for a loss. At the end of the season, the team with the most points is the champion. The nearly eight-month season doesn't lead up to a playoff format; the league standings aren't merely used for seeding or bracketing. The season is the championship.

It can occasionally be anticlimactic (English and European soccer has plenty of elimination-format competitions, like the FA Cup and the Champions' League, so there are always thrills to be had elsewhere in case the league race widens), but you can't argue that it's unfair. The season is the largest sample size available, and the team that emerges atop the league table could never be considered a fluke. If you win the Premier League silverware, you're the best, and no one can dispute it.

Compare that to, say, college basketball. We play all these games, settle all these conference regular season titles and tournaments, all for the purpose of ordering everyone into one big 68-team field where, to be frank, things go crazy. This is why we love the NCAA tournament. I think it's the best sports competition in the world precisely for these reasons. But one side effect of its wackadoodle awesomeness is that it can make us forget just how good some of its victims really are.

Which brings us, of course, to the Kansas Jayhawks (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2305/kansas-jayhawks).

It wasn't so long ago -- March 2008, to be exact -- when Kansas coach Bill Self found himself under no small amount of fan base pressure to finally win a national title. Kansas, both before Self and during his tenure, had developed a scoff-worthy reputation among casual fans as a perennial tournament flop -- the No. 1 seed you couldn't afford to pick in your bracket, the No. 1 seed that would be upset somewhere along the line. When Kansas took on Davidson star Steph Curry in the 2008 Elite Eight, it's no stretch to say that a loss would have made caused a full-fledged fan freakout. Self's impressive tenure to that point -- four-straight Big 12 titles, back-to-back 30-win seasons, the continuation of Roy Williams's nonstop recruiting machine, and so on -- may well have been have been lost in the fray.

Instead, Kansas held on to beat Davidson, Derrick Rose's free throws missed, Mario's Miracle didn't, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Four years later, it's clear there is no magic upset "hump" to clear, no one-time mental block, no demons to exorcise. Self's Kansas team has been upset in all three two out of three tournaments since 2008, including 2010's second-round loss to UNI and last year's Elite Eight defeat to that scorching VCU team. But after Saturday's win over Missouri, it seems like now might be the time to take a step back, consider Self's accomplishments at Kansas, and shake our heads in awe. Because this program just keeps winning.

Saturday's win sealed Kansas's share of the 2012 Big 12 regular-season title. This feat marks the eighth straight time Kansas has won at least a share its conference regular-season championship. After Saint Mary's strong finish in the West Coast Conference, which felled Gonzaga's bid at an 11th straight WCC title, KU's mark is now the longest active win streak in the country. Per ESPN Stats & Information, the next-longest are, or were, Xavier's five-year run in the A-10 (which is coming to an end this week) and Murray State and Belmont's three-year runs in the OVC and A-Sun, respectively.

The Atlantic 10 is a good league. The OVC and A-Sun occasionally berth a challenger or two. Saint Mary's has pushed Gonzaga for years. But none of those leagues are as consistently deep or talented or difficult to navigate as the Big 12.

At various times in Kansas's run, the Big 12 has been the best or second-best conference in the country. (Per Ken Pomeroy, that's the case again this year; the Big 12 ranks behind only the Big 10 in overall strength (http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=B12).) At various times in Self's tenure, his competition has recruited and rostered the likes of Kevin Durant, Michael Beasley, Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge, Acie Law, Tristan Thompson, James Anderson, Tony Allen, and D.J Augustin -- and that's literally just the NBA guys that first came to mind. I'm sure there are countless more worthy of inclusion, including future lottery picks like Perry Jones III (http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/51237/perry-jones-iii), or stars like Jacob Pullen, or Missouri's unique lightning-in-a-bottle squad this season.

But despite all that, Self has managed to recruit the Jayhawks as well as any coach who came before him. In many years, he's had an embarrassment of talented riches. The sheer fact that Thomas Robinson (http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/46114/thomas-robinson) came off the bench last season should tell you that much. But even in seasons in which Self lost scores of former stars -- like in 2011, when he lost Cole Aldrich, Xavier Henry and Sherron Collins, or this season, when he lost two-thirds of his starting backcourt and both starting forwards to graduation and/or the NBA draft, and lost two incoming freshmen to partial qualifier status in the offseason -- he's managed to get the Jayhawks to the top of the league anyway.

There may have been some NCAA tournament upsets along the way, and some have been more dramatic than others, but in the biggest sample sizes, against some of the best college hoops talent of the past decade, Self's Kansas program has prevailed. It's a ridiculous, mind-blowing run of success, and we don't talk about it enough.

At the end of the day, coaches are measured by national titles, and you get national titles by surviving the insane landmine that is the NCAA tournament. But when you peel back the March Madness and really dig in, this is what college hoops success looks like. In the past 10 years, few have done it better than Self.

Excellent post!

sedated
02-29-2012, 09:52 AM
Not to pile on, but the timing of everything is funny.
April 7, 2008 – KU wins championship
April 8, 2009 – Mizzou fans declare college basketball a secondary sport
February 5, 2012 – Mizzou beats KU
February 6, 2012 – February 25, 2012 – Mizzou fans can’t stop talking about college basketball
February 25, 2012 – KU beats Mizzou to earn its 8th straight Big 12 title
February 29, 2012 – Mizzou fan posts statistics to "prove" that the conference has sucked the last 20 years.

And then the money quote:

although 8 straight conference titles is impressive there's no way to negate the fact that the conference is just not all that.

phisherman
02-29-2012, 10:00 AM
Reading all of the KU fan responses in this thread, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how KU fans think that MU fans are obsessed.

Reading this thread particularly makes it looks like KU fans are obsessed with making every thread about them.

SNR
02-29-2012, 10:02 AM
Two words for the MU fans:

Cognitive. Dissonance.

Pants
02-29-2012, 10:03 AM
Reading all of the KU fan responses in this thread, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how KU fans think that MU fans are obsessed.

Reading this thread particularly makes it looks like KU fans are obsessed with making everything thread about them.

Yeah, it's not like KU is mentioned by name in the original post or anything. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. LMAO

phisherman
02-29-2012, 10:07 AM
Not to take anything away from KU(if not for you the conference is all suckage),however,I had to check the facts given on Petro's show today with Doug Gottlieb(sp?)


I don't see how KU has been slighted in the least bit. If anything, it's an MU fan dogging MU's history in the tournament.

Bearcat
02-29-2012, 10:15 AM
Reading all of the KU fan responses in this thread, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how KU fans think that MU fans are obsessed.

Reading this thread particularly makes it looks like KU fans are obsessed with making everything thread about them.

Outside of Plow's post and the past 10 minutes, who's really making it all about KU (even though the OP did a decent job of that)?

If you really don't think MU fans are obsessed about KU, maybe you should stick around here or tigerboard more often. MU hadn't even beat Baylor yet when that game thread turned into MU/KU crap, and someone posted about how there was a MU/Baylor game thread on phog (oh, the humanity)... and just yesterday, when news of the exit fees came out, someone compared it to KU buying out Mangino's and Gill's contracts. I know there are a lot of little jabs that go back and forth, and I really don't think anyone can say "they started it" more often than anyone on the other side... but just those two things off the top of my head are pretty big indicators of how much some MU fans hate KU, and how much KU is in their head.

Trevo_410
02-29-2012, 10:18 AM
Outside of Plow's post and the past 10 minutes, who's really making it all about KU (even though the OP did a decent job of that)?

If you really don't think MU fans are obsessed about KU, maybe you should stick around here or tigerboard more often. MU hadn't even beat Baylor yet when that game thread turned into MU/KU crap, and someone posted about how there was a MU/Baylor game thread on phog (oh, the humanity)... and just yesterday, when news of the exit fees came out, someone compared it to KU buying out Mangino's and Gill's contracts. I know there are a lot of little jabs that go back and forth, and I really don't think anyone can say "they started it" more often than anyone on the other side... but just those two things off the top of my head are pretty big indicators of how much some MU fans hate KU, and how much KU is in their head.

seriously, just stop. There was shit talking before I posted those statistics. Rather you could see it, or not.

Pants
02-29-2012, 10:38 AM
seriously, just stop. There was shit talking before I posted those statistics. Rather you could see it, or not.

What statistics?

Bearcat
02-29-2012, 10:39 AM
seriously, just stop

Nah, I think I'll run with it for the next month. "How can we make this about KU?" is the new "but, KU fans don't care about MU".

Make it happen, Beakers.

Bearcat
02-29-2012, 10:42 AM
What statistics?

In the conference realignment thread, he posted a comparison between MU's exit fees and the buyouts of Mangino and Gill. I laughed at the notion that the first thought when the exit fee news came out was "how can we make this about KU?"

But, they don't care about KU.
...wait, that's not right.

phisherman
02-29-2012, 10:43 AM
The tendency of a lot of KU fans to proclaim their "superiority" over MU fans is what drives these arguments.

For a team with such a rich tradition in basketball, fans of KU still seem to feel that they constantly have to "enlighten" other people about how great they are. It seems like a bit of a complex at times.

The whole "who started it" argument is just worthless. Both sides have morons.

Pants
02-29-2012, 10:47 AM
The tendency of a lot of KU fans to proclaim their "superiority" over MU fans is what drives these arguments.

For a team with such a rich tradition in basketball, fans of KU still seem to feel that they constantly have to "enlighten" other people about how great they are. It seems like a bit of a complex at times.

The whole "who started it" argument is just worthless. Both sides have morons.

KU fans proclaim their "superiority" over MU fans? What does that even mean? When does this happen? So you're saying this thread was started because KU fans proclaimed some kind of superiority? The superiority is 8 conference titles in a row? That's not a proclamation, it's a fact. It doesn't make the fans superior, though, so I'm still confused.

SNR
02-29-2012, 10:54 AM
KU fans are just rude. I'm not saying you shouldn't celebrate or look fondly upon your basketball team's great successes the past 10 years, but could you guys do it more discretely, please? Maybe at home in the middle of the night under the covers with a flashlight? After all, you guys wouldn't want to appear arrogant and bullyish to rival fans, now, would you?

Saulbadguy
02-29-2012, 10:56 AM
KU fans are just rude. I'm not saying you shouldn't celebrate or look fondly upon your basketball team's great successes the past 10 years, but could you guys do it more discretely, please? Maybe at home in the middle of the night under the covers with a flashlight? After all, you guys wouldn't want to appear arrogant and bullyish to rival fans, now, would you?

http://i.imgur.com/a3CKe.gif

Bearcat
02-29-2012, 10:59 AM
The tendency of a lot of KU fans to proclaim their "superiority" over MU fans is what drives these arguments.

For a team with such a rich tradition in basketball, fans of KU still seem to feel that they constantly have to "enlighten" other people about how great they are. It seems like a bit of a complex at times.

The whole "who started it" argument is just worthless. Both sides have morons.

I agree with that to an extent, but most of it is just rehashing the same old crap... some MU fans want to downplay KU's success at anything, and KU fans get defensive about it. I don't think it's necessarily over MU fans... that's just who happens to be involved in most of the crap around here when it comes to KU (outside of KU fans, too, of course).

OTOH, MU fans spend a lot of time justifying their school, too. The odd thing is that while I think it's logical to compare any team to the conference leader(s), MU fans flaunt their (at least recent) superiority over KU in football (MU has always finished higher in the conference than KU, MU beat KU during KU's best season, etc).

And of course, the timing of your comments has a lot to do with it... you could easily go back to football season and clearly see what I'm saying about MU enlightening KU fans about their football program, SEC worthiness, etc.

Bearcat
02-29-2012, 11:00 AM
KU fans are just rude. I'm not saying you shouldn't celebrate or look fondly upon your basketball team's great successes the past 10 years, but could you guys do it more discretely, please? Maybe at home in the middle of the night under the covers with a flashlight? After all, you guys wouldn't want to appear arrogant and bullyish to rival fans, now, would you?

LMAO


:D
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af352/ku2nyc/titleswat8.gif

phisherman
02-29-2012, 11:01 AM
That's what I mean exactly. The problem is, each side says that they don't do it. It makes everyone in the arguments sound like idiots.

Reerun_KC
02-29-2012, 11:24 AM
http://i.imgur.com/a3CKe.gif

I damn near choked on a beer when I saw that the other night. WTF?

Pants
02-29-2012, 11:26 AM
That's what I mean exactly. The problem is, each side says that they don't do it. It makes everyone in the arguments sound like idiots.

Don't do what?

Bearcat
02-29-2012, 11:28 AM
That's what I mean exactly. The problem is, each side says that they don't do it. It makes everyone in the arguments sound like idiots.

Yes, that's been going on here for a dozen years. The other side always starts it, they always come into our threads, they're so obsessed with us, they're so full of themselves...

I still sometimes get hooked into the crap, but I try to either stay out of it when it's in full retard mode, or just poke my head in every once in a while to grab a spoon or laugh at something, and not even stick around for responses.

In the past month or so though, at least the worst of it hasn't been spread across more than a couple of threads.

Trevo_410
02-29-2012, 11:43 AM
KU fans are just rude. I'm not saying you shouldn't celebrate or look fondly upon your basketball team's great successes the past 10 years, but could you guys do it more discretely, please? Maybe at home in the middle of the night under the covers with a flashlight? After all, you guys wouldn't want to appear arrogant and bullyish to rival fans, now, would you?

I thought the rivalry was over?

Lzen
02-29-2012, 11:59 AM
See,this is exactly why it's impossible to try and communicate with most beaker fans,you're damned if you do and damned if you don't,you fockers are worse than women.But hey you have a crystal ball and know my intentions so what the fock ever,good day.

How dare you post something an actual analyst pointed out. You big meanie!! He's gonna tell kenpom on you.

Would he have posted this had MU just won the conference. I seriously doubt it. C'mon, you guys are starting to act like Pitt Gorilla. :rolleyes:

....Once again, what was the point of your OP if not to try (unsuccessfully, I might add) and discredit, to whatever degree, the amazing feat Bill Self and his KU teams have accomplished over the last 8 years?

Exactly.

Not to pile on, but the timing of everything is funny.
April 7, 2008 – KU wins championship
April 8, 2009 – Mizzou fans declare college basketball a secondary sport
February 5, 2012 – Mizzou beats KU
February 6, 2012 – February 25, 2012 – Mizzou fans can’t stop talking about college basketball
February 25, 2012 – KU beats Mizzou to earn its 8th straight Big 12 title
February 29, 2012 – Mizzou fan posts statistics to "prove" that the conference has sucked the last 20 years.

And then the money quote:

Yup, timing is just after KU won the conference (again). If MU had beaten KU on Saturday and were in position right now to win the conference title, there is no way this gets posted.

http://i.imgur.com/a3CKe.gif

That woman is ugly. Yikes.

Lzen
02-29-2012, 12:00 PM
I thought the rivalry was over?

It pretty much is over. But that won't stop KU/MU fans from talking trash to each other.

mnchiefsguy
02-29-2012, 12:03 PM
Seems like if folks are upset with Nzoner's post, they should be upset with Gottlieb and company.

I don't see how Nzoner's op could be construed as a slight to KU when he states KU is the only school that keeps the Big XII from complete suckage, as least as far as the tournament is concerned.

I think the Big XII is an outstanding regular season conference. Yes, KU has dominated the regular season standings, but the quality of bball played in conference play has been outstanding this year, and very good in years past.

Unfortunately, everything is measured by March Madness now. Right or wrong, that is just the reality of the situation. A team can go undefeated in the regular season, but if they don't make the final four, the memory of their season is swept away by the masses (except for the local fans of that team and conference, etc.)

A 30 win season means little if a final four appearance does not accompany it.

March Madness has been a double edged sword. It has raised the profile of college bball over the years....without the success of the tourney, not nearly as many college bball games would be on tv, but it has also redefined and re prioritized what the regular season in college bball means.

Regular season titles should mean more than they do. It is a great accomplishment. KU won or shared an amazing 43 Big 8 regular season titles. Kansas State won 17. Mizzou won 15. In an 89 year span...pretty incredible for KU, and KSU and Mizzou are no slouches either. (KU won on average, a Big 8 title about every other year, and Mizzou and KSU work out to about one in every five.)

The Big XII, as a conference, has had a bad 10-15 run in the tournament. KU's title run in 2008 and their title game appearance in 03 are the only real bright spots. It is what it is.

Hopefully this year's tourney will change some of that perception. If the Big XII puts one or more teams in the final four, it will effect the whole perception of the last ten years. Justifiable or not, that is just the reality of modern college basketball.

phisherman
02-29-2012, 12:05 PM
Don't do what?

How is it that Bearcat gets exactly what I'm saying and you are confused? Are you really that thick or are you just acting disingenuous?

HemiEd
02-29-2012, 12:41 PM
It pretty much is over. But that won't stop KU/MU fans from talking trash to each other.

Can you imagine just how good of a record the big8/12 would have if Mizzou had carried their weight? How many first round chokes did Norm Stewart have? He had some pretty darn good teams with Gminsky and the boys.

mnchiefsguy
02-29-2012, 01:05 PM
Can you imagine just how good of a record the big8/12 would have if Mizzou had carried their weight? How many first round chokes did Norm Stewart have? He had some pretty darn good teams with Gminsky and the boys.

I love Mizzou, but there is no doubt that the tournament has not been kind to them over the years. Hopefully Haith can break that and lead us to the promised land.

Pants
02-29-2012, 01:20 PM
How is it that Bearcat gets exactly what I'm saying and you are confused? Are you really that thick or are you just acting disingenuous?

Please show me where KU fans proclaim their "superiority" and I will kindly STFU.

ROYC75
02-29-2012, 01:40 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH I'M A MIZZOU FAN AND I WHINE A LOT!!!!

WAAAAAHHHHHHH ESPECIALLY IF I'm BRINGING FACTS TO THE TABLE

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

BUTTHURT IS WHAT I IS

You must of got your butthurt from Big Bubba, it's bad enough you are screaming about it.

Nzoner
02-29-2012, 03:01 PM
I don't see how KU has been slighted in the least bit. If anything, it's an MU fan dogging MU's history in the tournament.

Seems like if folks are upset with Nzoner's post, they should be upset with Gottlieb and company.

I don't see how Nzoner's op could be construed as a slight to KU when he states KU is the only school that keeps the Big XII from complete suckage, as least as far as the tournament is concerned.


Thank you guys and Lzen the ONLY reason this got posted was because it was a topic on The Program,that's what prompted me to look it up and of course it was a topic on The Program BECAUSE KU had won their 8th straight.

Setsuna
02-29-2012, 03:12 PM
Bigrock you fucking idiot. Florida won 2 back to back. I swear pay attention you degenrate crack whore baby. Fuck!!!

Lzen
03-01-2012, 08:59 AM
Thank you guys and Lzen the ONLY reason this got posted was because it was a topic on The Program,that's what prompted me to look it up and of course it was a topic on The Program BECAUSE KU had won their 8th straight.

Ok, that's fair enough. I like you, Joe and I don't wanna be a jerk to you. But I just know how much you hate KU. And it seemed as though you were taking another (backdoor)shot at them. I won't hassle you about it anymore as I've already given my opinion on this.

Seems like if folks are upset with Nzoner's post, they should be upset with Gottlieb and company.

I don't see how Nzoner's op could be construed as a slight to KU when he states KU is the only school that keeps the Big XII from complete suckage, as least as far as the tournament is concerned.

I think the Big XII is an outstanding regular season conference. Yes, KU has dominated the regular season standings, but the quality of bball played in conference play has been outstanding this year, and very good in years past.

Unfortunately, everything is measured by March Madness now. Right or wrong, that is just the reality of the situation. A team can go undefeated in the regular season, but if they don't make the final four, the memory of their season is swept away by the masses (except for the local fans of that team and conference, etc.)

A 30 win season means little if a final four appearance does not accompany it.

March Madness has been a double edged sword. It has raised the profile of college bball over the years....without the success of the tourney, not nearly as many college bball games would be on tv, but it has also redefined and re prioritized what the regular season in college bball means.

Regular season titles should mean more than they do. It is a great accomplishment. KU won or shared an amazing 43 Big 8 regular season titles. Kansas State won 17. Mizzou won 15. In an 89 year span...pretty incredible for KU, and KSU and Mizzou are no slouches either. (KU won on average, a Big 8 title about every other year, and Mizzou and KSU work out to about one in every five.)

The Big XII, as a conference, has had a bad 10-15 run in the tournament. KU's title run in 2008 and their title game appearance in 03 are the only real bright spots. It is what it is.

Hopefully this year's tourney will change some of that perception. If the Big XII puts one or more teams in the final four, it will effect the whole perception of the last ten years. Justifiable or not, that is just the reality of modern college basketball.

BTW, great post, mn.

Nzoner
03-01-2012, 09:16 AM
Ok, that's fair enough. I like you, Joe and I don't wanna be a jerk to you. But I just know how much you hate KU. And it seemed as though you were taking another (backdoor)shot at them. I won't hassle you about it anymore as I've already given my opinion on this.


Fair enough. :thumb:

Dr. Facebook Fever
03-01-2012, 09:26 AM
That woman is ugly. Yikes.

If I'm not mistaken I believe it's Tyshawns mother.

Lzen
03-01-2012, 11:57 AM
If I'm not mistaken I believe it's Tyshawns mother.

I knew that. TT's mom looks like a man. Yikes!

sedated
03-16-2012, 12:21 PM
K-State wins. Baylor wins. Iowa State wins. Texas loses.

3-1 with the two 2 seeds coming up. Strong year so far.

ArrowheadMagic
03-16-2012, 07:11 PM
Not to take anything away from KU(if not for you the conference is all suckage),however,I had to check the facts given on Petro's show today with Doug Gottlieb(sp?)

The Big 12/8 has only been represented in the Championship game twice in the last 20 years(both KU) and has the one win in 2008.

Also commented on although 8 straight conference titles is impressive there's no way to negate the fact that the conference is just not all that.

NCAA Basketball Tournament Winners

Year Winner Opponent Score

2011 Connecticut Butler 53-41
2010 Duke Butler 61-59
2009 North Carolina Michigan State 89-72
2008 Kansas Memphis 75-68
2007 Florida Ohio State 84-75
2006 Florida UCLA 73-57
2005 North Carolina Illinois 75-70
2004 Connecticut Georgia Tech 82-73
2003 Syracuse Kansas 81-78
2002 Maryland Indiana 64-52
2001 Duke Arizona 82-72
2000 Michigan State Florida 89-76
1999 Connecticut Duke 77-74
1998 Kentucky Utah 78-69
1997 Arizona Kentucky 84-79 (OT)
1996 Kentucky Syracuse 76-67
1995 UCLA Arkansas 89-78
1994 Arkansas Duke 76-72
1993 North Carolina Michigan 77-71
1992 Duke Michigan 71-51

Thanks for the help.

Simplicity
03-16-2012, 07:27 PM
B1G

kstater
03-16-2012, 07:58 PM
How good is the MEAC?

kstater
03-24-2012, 08:55 AM
1/4th of the remaining teams in tournament.

WildTurkey
03-24-2012, 09:52 AM
Big 12 Conference (@Big12Conference)
3/24/12 10:27 AM
DYK? Since 2002, the #Big12 has had 19 teams reach the MBB #Elite8 – the most of any conference in the nation.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DonkyPuncher
03-24-2012, 12:50 PM
LMAO - God, you muTT fans are so dorky.

Wow that was such a harsh insult

DonkyPuncher
03-24-2012, 12:52 PM
Big 12 is consistently one of the best conference in basketball....just because MU blows doesn't mean the rest of the conference does

I usually like your posts they even often times make me laugh but this one is pretty stupid.... just sayin

Bump
03-24-2012, 01:01 PM
is this an MU butt hurt thread?

DonkyPuncher
03-24-2012, 01:07 PM
is this an MU butt hurt thread?

Nah, I mean I can't speak for every MU fan but im over it, time to move on to some football

Chocolate Hog
03-24-2012, 01:11 PM
B1G

Butthurt.

DonkyPuncher
03-24-2012, 01:11 PM
and some Royal's baseball, hoping for a good season

kstater
03-31-2012, 09:22 PM
50% of the championship game.

SNR
03-31-2012, 10:11 PM
TARRBULL