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Count Alex's Losses
03-01-2012, 04:46 AM
Excellent article.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Robert-Griffin-speed-might-slow-his-progress-jason-whitlock-analysis-022712

My professors at Ball State warned me that my good looks, perfectly sculpted body and high intellect might impede my career as a journalist. They feared my seemingly endless physical and intellectual gifts would prevent me from developing a singular focus.

I have similar fears when assessing Robert Griffin III’s NFL prospects. Abundant talent can be a curse.

The biggest news of the NFL Combine was RG3’s blazing 40-yard dash time. He covered 40 yards like a shutdown corner, clocking a 4.41. The instant-Twitter analysis of NFL experts was that Griffin’s show of speed increased the value of the Rams’ pick, the one right after the pick the Colts are expected to use on Stanford QB Andrew Luck.

In my opinion, Griffin’s speed doesn’t enhance his draft stock. It damages it.

I am not a Robert Griffin hater. I love RG3. In all likelihood, he will be my favorite NFL player next season. He could quickly become my favorite active athlete, ahead of Tiger Woods, Ray Lewis and Jeff George (has yet to file his retirement paperwork).

But I’m worried about Griffin. He’s blessed with too many tools. Oftentimes, the greatest athletes are physically limited, which strengthens their focus. Bill Russell could never match Wilt Chamberlain’s size and limitless athleticism. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson weren’t the greatest leapers or the quickest on their feet.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are relatively immobile. They play from the pocket because they have no choice. They mastered the art of playing from the pocket because they had no other choice.

NFL games are won most consistently by quarterbacks who play from the pocket. If a quarterback leaves the pocket, he’s going to get hit. If a quarterback gets hit regularly, he’s going to get hurt. If a franchise quarterback gets injured, his team has little chance of winning the Super Bowl.

NFL teams are looking for the next Manning or Brady. Or the next Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger. A little mobility is good, especially if the quarterback moves in the pocket in an effort to throw downfield. Rodgers and Big Ben are terrific at moving to throw. Is that how Griffin will use his athleticism?

Or does Griffin have so much speed that he’ll channel Michael Vick?

Vick had too much talent early in his career. The game was too easy. The temptation to fix problems with his feet was too great for him to master QB play from the pocket. He’s just now attempting to play the game from the pocket. Even now, he gives in to his blazing speed and exits the pocket prematurely.

OK, we know RG3 is vastly different from the young Michael Vick. But it took Donovan McNabb a few years to commit to pocket play. Steve Young had to sit behind Joe Montana in San Francisco to learn to fully appreciate the pocket.

NFL fans are going to want to see Griffin run. When you’re faster than everyone on the field, it makes sense to run. Griffin is going to be fighting common sense and his natural instincts.

And what if he gets paired with the wrong head coach, a coach who is looking for a quick-fix rather than Griffin’s long-term success?

There is talk that the Redskins might want to move up in the draft to get RG3. Mike Shanahan is under pressure in Washington. He needs to win right away to ease the public pressure and prevent Daniel Snyder from firing him. Shanahan could play Griffin as a rookie and allow him to run because his legs might produce eight or nine victories quicker than his arm.

All coaches prefer to win now. It’s the only way to guarantee another season. Is there a proven, confident coach in a stable organization willing to properly support Griffin’s development?

Environment and fit are the keys to Griffin’s success. That’s why Luck is the better prospect. Luck is extremely gifted, but he won’t be tempted to outrun James Harrison or Terrell Suggs. The only way for Luck to consistently avoid big hits will be with quick reads and a quicker release. He’ll be forced to play QB the “right” way.

That is not to say Luck will be a better NFL quarterback than Griffin. My money is on Griffin being the second coming of Steve Young. But I’m just a fan. It won’t be my job to teach him to shy away from his God-given talent.

WhiteWhale
03-01-2012, 05:20 AM
First and foremost... Andrew Luck is pretty goddamn fast. I'm not sure Whitlock realizes that.

He's got a good point about QB's and speed, but I don't think Griffin is gonna get the Randall Cunningham treatment. The falcons actually tried pretty hard to make Vick a legit QB. He just didn't put in the work. Even Vick himself has admitted this.

I think, at times, athletic QB's have a running mentality simply because they can have that. A human's strongest emotion is the avoidance of pain For slower QB's the way to avoid pain is to read the defense really fast and get rid of the ball to the open guy. Running isn't even an option. For guys who can move... it is an option. They don't develop the tools of a QB as naturally. It takes more discipline because they have that option.

I think Griffin has the mental make up to do what many athletic QB's have failed at.

BigMeatballDave
03-01-2012, 05:40 AM
I think Whitlocks fat ass is a curse.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 06:52 AM
I agree with him. A little mobility is good. But "run around" quarterbacks have never won shit in terms of NFL championships. You have to win from the pocket. That's not even debatable.

KC Tattoo
03-01-2012, 06:55 AM
I agree with him. A little mobility is good. But "run around" quarterbacks have never won shit in terms of NFL championships. You have to win from the pocket. That's not even debatable.

Steve Young says "what? "

beach tribe
03-01-2012, 07:05 AM
Steve Young says "what? "

Steve Young is, I believe, the 2nd or 3rd highest rated QB in NFL history.

penguinz
03-01-2012, 07:21 AM
I agree with him. A little mobility is good. But "run around" quarterbacks have never won shit in terms of NFL championships. You have to win from the pocket. That's not even debatable.:spock:

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 07:26 AM
Steve Young says "what? "

I knew someone would bring up Steve Young.

1. There is always going to be an exception to every rule. But Steve Young was just very mobile, he wasn't a run around QB like RGIII is. Mike Vick, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb, Vince Young, etc. None of these guys ever won a championship.

2. Steve Young could win from the pocket and did.

3. Run around QB's don't win championships.

It's not really even a debate. Someone can try, but list me the last 20 SB winning QB's and tell me if they are considered pocket passers or mobile QB's.

Tuckdaddy
03-01-2012, 07:34 AM
Steve Young says "what? "

Why does everyone call him that? Young had one great running TD.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 07:34 AM
Here you go, I'll do it for you........

Eli Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Big Ben

Tom Brady

Brad Johnson

Trent Dilfer

Kurt Warner

John Elway

Brett Favre

Troy Aikman

Steve Young

Mark Rypien

On that list someone will try to make a case for Ben, but he never rushed for more than 204 yards in a season. He has escapability but Ben gets away from a pass rush and then throws the ball. He doesn't actually run down field much.

Elway didn't win one until he stopped running around and got a running game behind him.

Young is the only one that qualifies but he was throwing for 3000+ yards routinely. And well, he's in the hall of fame.

Point is, you probably aren't going to win a championship with a run around QB. A guy that is mobile that can get out of the pocket and throw downfield is one thing, a Michael Vick clone?

No thanks.

Deberg_1990
03-01-2012, 07:37 AM
Young was a scambler, but didnt really run with regularity like Vick did or does. He didnt win anything until he toned down the running and became a better pocket passer anyways.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 07:40 AM
Young was a scambler, but didnt really run with regularity like Vick did or does. He didnt win anything until he toned down the running and became a better pocket passer anyways.

Exactly.

But people on this board have a hard on for drafting ANY quarterback. I mean half the people on this board last year wanted to draft Clausen for the love of god.

MoreLemonPledge
03-01-2012, 07:44 AM
So basically we don't want a black quarterback because one has never won a Super Bowl?

Hog Farmer
03-01-2012, 07:52 AM
I agree with him. A little mobility is good. But "run around" quarterbacks have never won shit in terms of NFL championships. You have to win from the pocket. That's not even debatable.

Not true. What about Elvis GRbac !

Zeke
03-01-2012, 07:53 AM
So basically we don't want a black quarterback because one has never won a Super Bowl?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/images/redskins/oldies/dougw.jpg

MoreLemonPledge
03-01-2012, 07:59 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/images/redskins/oldies/dougw.jpg

Doesn't count. He hardly even played that season.

Chiefnj2
03-01-2012, 08:07 AM
Griffin had a 179 rushes this year.

Final year in college # of rushes
Newton - 264
Kaepernick - 175
Dalton - 86
Colt McCoy - 129
Tannehill - 58

Deberg_1990
03-01-2012, 08:08 AM
I mean half the people on this board last year wanted to draft Clausen for the love of god.

and this is why i rarely post or get caught up in any sort of draft hype anymore. IM tired and done with it.

tymania
03-01-2012, 08:11 AM
I did not watch a lot of RG3 at Baylor but the times i did watch him, to me he seemed to be a pass first run second type of QB.

COchief
03-01-2012, 08:14 AM
A human's strongest emotion is the avoidance of pain

I read this in Mort's (the whiny Jewish guy) voice from Family Guy. Also, not sure how to say this without being offensive, but you kind of sound like a huge pussy.

Chiefnj2
03-01-2012, 08:17 AM
Stat of the Week
Comparing air yards for three QB prospects
Att. Passing yards Air yards Pct. of pass yards that are air yards
Griffin 402 4,293 2,326 54.2%
Luck 404 3,519 1,815 51.6%
Weeden 564 4,727 1,993 42.2%

Stats Inc. came up with a stat that I think shows what an impressive downfield thrower Robert Griffin III was last year: air yards. That's the amount of passing yards a quarterback gets, obviously, through the air, before a receiver catches and runs with the ball. Comparing the percentage of air yards Griffin had last year to two other downfield throwers, Andrew Luck of Stanford and Brandon Weeden of Oklahoma State.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/27/combine/index.html#ixzz1nsI4AwL0

jd1020
03-01-2012, 08:21 AM
Those numbers don't really impress me.

Talking about a guy like Griffin who played in the spread with one of the fastest WR's in the league vs Luck who played in a pro style with his TEs being the #1 threat.

Chiefnj2
03-01-2012, 08:23 AM
Those numbers don't really impress me.

Talking about a guy like Griffin who played in the spread with one of the fastest WR's in the league vs Luck who played in a pro style with his TEs being the #1 threat.

One of the fastest WR's who just ran a 4.61.

jd1020
03-01-2012, 08:24 AM
One of the fastest WR's who just ran a 4.61.

Ya... Wright is clearly 4.6 speed. Thats why he never got behind any CB in college. :rolleyes:

Coogs
03-01-2012, 08:25 AM
Those numbers don't really impress me.

Talking about a guy like Griffin who played in the spread with one of the fastest WR's in the league vs Luck who played in a pro style with his TEs being the #1 threat.

Combine 40 times...

WR Kendall Wright, Baylor, 4.61
WR Chris Owusu, Stanford, 4.36

jd1020
03-01-2012, 08:27 AM
Combine 40 times...

WR Kendall Wright, Baylor, 4.61
WR Chris Owusu, Stanford, 4.36

In before more idiots start posting a 1 time combine # while NFL teams say "they aren't concerned."

J Diddy
03-01-2012, 08:30 AM
I read this in Mort's (the whiny Jewish guy) voice from Family Guy. Also, not sure how to say this without being offensive, but you kind of sound like a huge pussy.

:ROFL:

You did that really well. I don't know anybody who would be offended by saying someone sort of sounds like a huge pussy.

Coogs
03-01-2012, 08:32 AM
In before more idiots start posting a 1 time combine # while NFL teams say "they aren't concerned."

What aren't they concerned with? Luck throwing to a TE all the time when he had two of the top O-linemen in the draft, and one of the fastest WR in all of college FB, yet threw to his TE most of the time?

WV
03-01-2012, 08:35 AM
Griffin had a 179 rushes this year.

Final year in college # of rushes
Newton - 264
Kaepernick - 175
Dalton - 86
Colt McCoy - 129
Tannehill - 58

This....thanks for posting it I was going to look for the same stat. I don't get where all these morons keep calling RG3 a running QB. You do not obtain his accuracy by throwing on the run all the time. The pigeon holing of the athletic black QB continues.

jd1020
03-01-2012, 08:43 AM
What aren't they concerned with? Luck throwing to a TE all the time when he had two of the top O-linemen in the draft, and one of the fastest WR in all of college FB, yet threw to his TE most of the time?

They aren't concerned with Wrights "4.6" speed when there is game tape out there of him burning 4.4 CB's like Quandre Diggs from Texas.

Baby Lee
03-01-2012, 08:53 AM
Steve Young had to sit behind Joe Montana in San Francisco to learn to fully appreciate the pocket.
Yeah, Young sat behind Montana because of his deficiencies, not because Montana was the BEST EFFING QB EVER.

RippedmyFlesh
03-01-2012, 08:53 AM
I agree with TheGuardian pocket passers= SB's.
But to me RG3 is the exception.
He has a pocket passer's arm which usually with a mobile qb is not the case.
If he got injured and lost mobility but somehow it didn't affect his passing I would still build around him.

tk13
03-01-2012, 08:59 AM
I agree with some of this... and I've said as much. Not that it would necessarily keep me from drafting the guy. Yeah Luck is mobile too but he is not anywhere near Griffin's universe. Few people are... Griffin is a once in a decade talent. But nobody has ever won with a scrambling QB. He will have to become an elite passer as well to win. Remember when Young won he set a record for Super Bowl passing TDs and was one of the best passing QBs in the league. My other concern is Griffin is not a big tank like Newton or Tebow... so he's probably a bigger injury risk. But I think he's a better passer than Vick or Vince Young... his potential is off the charts.
Posted via Mobile Device

Reerun_KC
03-01-2012, 09:18 AM
all buffets thinks Racist Whitlock is a curse...

-King-
03-01-2012, 09:20 AM
Yeah, Young sat behind Montana because of his deficiencies, not because Montana was the BEST EFFING QB EVER.

That's not what he meant...
Posted via Mobile Device

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 09:20 AM
This....thanks for posting it I was going to look for the same stat. I don't get where all these morons keep calling RG3 a running QB. You do not obtain his accuracy by throwing on the run all the time. The pigeon holing of the athletic black QB continues.

Pull your head out of your ass.

There is no pigeon holing here, the same thing was said of Tebow. And it turned out to be true.

RGIII is not a pocket passer. If the Chiefs are going to draft a QB to build around as a franchise QB, it needs to be the kinds that you know, win super bowls? And those are pocket passers.

RGIII is a running QB. You don't rush for 846, 635, and 700 yards if you're a pocket passer.

You wanna know how many yards Vick ran for in his two years at VT?

585 and 617.

You wanna know how many yards Luck rushed for at Stanford?

354
453
150

What about Tebow?

910
673
895
469 (freshman year)

RGIII is a running QB. The odds that he will lead a team to a SB are slim and none.

But this board has gone fucking crazy because like I said, half the people here wanted to draft Clausen last year, when it was clear to sane people he sucked.

Drafting a QB just for the sake of it is fucking stupid beyond comprehension.

Chiefnj2
03-01-2012, 09:22 AM
Pull your head out of your ass.

There is no pigeon holing here, the same thing was said of Tebow. And it turned out to be true.

RGIII is not a pocket passer. If the Chiefs are going to draft a QB to build around as a franchise QB, it needs to be the kinds that you know, win super bowls? And those are pocket passers.

RGIII is a running QB. You don't rush for 846, 635, and 700 yards if you're a pocket passer.

You wanna know how many yards Vick ran for in his two years at VT?

585 and 617.

You wanna know how many yards Luck rushed for at Stanford?

354
453
150

What about Tebow?

910
673
895
469 (freshman year)

RGIII is a running QB. The odds that he will lead a team to a SB are slim and none.

But this board has gone ****ing crazy because like I said, half the people here wanted to draft Clausen last year, when it was clear to sane people he sucked.

Drafting a QB just for the sake of it is ****ing stupid beyond comprehension.

How are you a "running QB" when you have the same number of pass attempts as the "passing/pocket QB" and more passing yardage than the passing QB?

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 09:26 AM
How are you a "running QB" when you have the same number of pass attempts as the "passing/pocket QB" and more passing yardage than the passing QB?

Being in a spread offense.

That's really another knock against him as well. That spread offense has produced lots of guys that don't transition well into pro style offenses.

Again, this board just wants to draft ANY QB......JUST BECAUSE.

Coogs
03-01-2012, 09:26 AM
They aren't concerned with Wrights "4.6" speed when there is game tape out there of him burning 4.4 CB's like Quandre Diggs from Texas.

I knew that, I was just funnin' with ya! :D

It does make you wonder a little bit though if the threat of the run from RGIII caused safeties and corners to play a little more cautious.

DaKCMan AP
03-01-2012, 09:28 AM
RGIII is a running QB. You don't rush for 846, 635, and 700 yards if you're a pocket passer.

You wanna know how many yards Vick ran for in his two years at VT?

585 and 617.

What about Tebow?

910
673
895
469 (freshman year)




Nice job at abusing statistics to agree with your horribly flawed analysis.

You know how many yards Vick threw for in college? 3,279. Total. In two years.

Griffin threw for 4,293 last year alone. 3,501 the year before.

Tebow threw for 3,286 yards in his sophomore, Heisman winning season. He didn't eclipse 3,000 yards in any other of his 4 seasons at Florida.

Vick ran the ball 40% of the time, passing 60%.
Tebow ran the ball 39% of the time, passing 61% (in his 3yrs as a starter).
Griffin III ran the ball 28% of the time, passing 72% (over past 2 seasons).

Hell, Cam Newton was nearly 50/50. At Auburn he had 280 pass attempts and 264 rush attempts. He only threw for 4,000 yard with a 60% completion percentage in his rookie NFL season.

Chiefnj2
03-01-2012, 09:30 AM
Being in a spread offense.

That's really another knock against him as well. That spread offense has produced lots of guys that don't transition well into pro style offenses.

Again, this board just wants to draft ANY QB......JUST BECAUSE.

Griffin is not in the same boat as the guys you are comparing him to. You compare him to Vick whose greatest # of pass attempts was 179 in a season. You compare him to Tebow who had tons of questions about his throwing motion and accuracy and ability to transition to the NFL.

We get it, you don't like him. You like Tannehill. Making baseless comparisons doesn't make your argument any stronger.

Lzen
03-01-2012, 09:45 AM
Griffin had a 179 rushes this year.

Final year in college # of rushes
Newton - 264
Kaepernick - 175
Dalton - 86
Colt McCoy - 129
Tannehill - 58

I did not watch a lot of RG3 at Baylor but the times i did watch him, to me he seemed to be a pass first run second type of QB.

This....thanks for posting it I was going to look for the same stat. I don't get where all these morons keep calling RG3 a running QB. You do not obtain his accuracy by throwing on the run all the time. The pigeon holing of the athletic black QB continues.

I was about to post about this but I see you guys have it covered. Griffin never seemed to me like a running QB. Always looking to pass downfield. The comparison to Vick is unfair.

Lzen
03-01-2012, 09:48 AM
Being in a spread offense.

That's really another knock against him as well. That spread offense has produced lots of guys that don't transition well into pro style offenses.

Again, this board just wants to draft ANY QB......JUST BECAUSE.

The spread offense argument is actually a legitimate argument. Unlike the running QB argument.

BigChiefFan
03-01-2012, 09:51 AM
RG3 is talented as Hell, but I have to say the spread offense concerns me big time.

suds79
03-01-2012, 09:51 AM
Being in a spread offense.

That's really another knock against him as well. That spread offense has produced lots of guys that don't transition well into pro style offenses.

How many teams are running some sort of the spread right now though? It's a QB friendly system. That's why I think so many teams are operating so much out of shotgun.

Pats? Check.
Saints? Check.
Lions? Check.
GB? Maybe not as much but seems as though they operate out of the gun a lot.

My point is that I'm not sure I buy much anymore that the spread is vastly different from the NFL.

the Talking Can
03-01-2012, 09:54 AM
How can anyone have actually watched RG3 play and say he's a running QB?

DaKCMan AP
03-01-2012, 09:54 AM
How can anyone have actually watched RG3 play and say he's a running QB?

Psst... they haven't watched him play.

the Talking Can
03-01-2012, 09:55 AM
and it's hilarious that RG3 has now been added to the pile of "QBs not good enough for the Chiefs"...

said pile just happens to include every QB ever....

the Talking Can
03-01-2012, 09:57 AM
and a simple tweak summarizes whitlock's article

He’ll be forced to play QB the “white” way.


i'm kidding...but just barely

SNR
03-01-2012, 10:01 AM
Being in a spread offense.

That's really another knock against him as well. That spread offense has produced lots of guys that don't transition well into pro style offenses.

Again, this board just wants to draft ANY QB......JUST BECAUSE.This board doesn't want to draft RGIII because he can run, moron.

SNR
03-01-2012, 10:05 AM
This board is crazy! They want to draft any QB just because!

Yeah, they want to draft just any QB. Except for any QB in this draft not named Andrew Luck or RGIII.

boogblaster
03-01-2012, 10:06 AM
in truth, if you're a running QB .. defensive cords will put a target on you .. and you're asking to get injured ......

Fat Elvis
03-01-2012, 10:07 AM
How many teams are running some sort of the spread right now though? It's a QB friendly system. That's why I think so many teams are operating so much out of shotgun.

Pats? Check.
Saints? Check.
Lions? Check.
GB? Maybe not as much but seems as though they operate out of the gun a lot.

My point is that I'm not sure I buy much anymore that the spread is vastly different from the NFL.

Don't forget that Peyton operated out of the shotgun an awful lot. But he sucks, so I guess it doesn't count....

Fat Elvis
03-01-2012, 10:10 AM
RG3 is talented as Hell, but I have to say the spread offense concerns me big time.

Assume we adopt a spread offense, with the players that the Chiefs have on Offense, how would you defend it?

The spread plays really well to big receivers, fast running backs who can catch the ball, and a speedy QB that can scramble if he has to.

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 10:14 AM
Here you go, I'll do it for you........

Eli Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Big Ben

Tom Brady

Brad Johnson

Trent Dilfer

Kurt Warner

John Elway

Brett Favre

Troy Aikman

Steve Young

Mark Rypien

On that list someone will try to make a case for Ben, but he never rushed for more than 204 yards in a season. He has escapability but Ben gets away from a pass rush and then throws the ball. He doesn't actually run down field much.

Elway didn't win one until he stopped running around and got a running game behind him.

Young is the only one that qualifies but he was throwing for 3000+ yards routinely. And well, he's in the hall of fame.

Point is, you probably aren't going to win a championship with a run around QB. A guy that is mobile that can get out of the pocket and throw downfield is one thing, a Michael Vick clone?

No thanks.

Aaron Rodger's rushing stats:

2008: 207 yards and 4 TDs
2009: 316 yards and 5 TDs
2010: 356 yards and 4 TDs
2011: 257 yards and 3 TDs

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 10:15 AM
Psst... they haven't watched him play.

Because it's theGuardian. He's a fucking moron.

CoMoChief
03-01-2012, 10:19 AM
(and Jeff George has yet to file his retirement paperwork).

lol jfc

WV
03-01-2012, 10:28 AM
Nice job at abusing statistics to agree with your horribly flawed analysis.

You know how many yards Vick threw for in college? 3,279. Total. In two years.

Griffin threw for 4,293 last year alone. 3,501 the year before.

Tebow threw for 3,286 yards in his sophomore, Heisman winning season. He didn't eclipse 3,000 yards in any other of his 4 seasons at Florida.

Vick ran the ball 40% of the time, passing 60%.
Tebow ran the ball 39% of the time, passing 61% (in his 3yrs as a starter).
Griffin III ran the ball 28% of the time, passing 72% (over past 2 seasons).

Hell, Cam Newton was nearly 50/50. At Auburn he had 280 pass attempts and 264 rush attempts. He only threw for 4,000 yard with a 60% completion percentage in his rookie NFL season.

Now stop posting facts that do not support his argument!!!!!!!!

Reerun_KC
03-01-2012, 11:28 AM
and a simple tweak summarizes whitlock's article




i'm kidding...but just barely

This is why you cant take Whitlock serious...

WhiteWhale
03-01-2012, 11:33 AM
I read this in Mort's (the whiny Jewish guy) voice from Family Guy. Also, not sure how to say this without being offensive, but you kind of sound like a huge pussy.

It's okay, I'm not offended by the stupidity of others.

It's just a natural instinct that pretty much all living animals share. It's called survival.

keg in kc
03-01-2012, 11:34 AM
Any thread that starts with "Whitlock thinks" is doomed.

SNR
03-01-2012, 11:34 AM
Any thread that starts with "Whitlock thinks" is guaranteed 100 posts.FYP

Thig Lyfe
03-01-2012, 11:44 AM
I did not watch a lot of RG3 at Baylor but the times i did watch him, to me he seemed to be a pass first run second type of QB.

Yeah, but he's black, so obviously it's the other way around.

Mr. Laz
03-01-2012, 11:45 AM
bullshit ... Cam Newton,Andrew Luck

Bump
03-01-2012, 11:49 AM
RG3 is a different type of player than Randall or Vick was and way better. He's smart, did anybody watch that epic bowl game last season? At the end of the game, when RG3 got the ball back and it was time to close the game, you could just see it in his face that he knew they were gonna win. It was like he oozed confidence and I want a guy like that, he's gonna be special. I'm not sure if he's gonna be quite as good as Cam was rookie season but in the long run I think he will be better. It would be so awesome if we make this happen.

KC Tattoo
03-01-2012, 11:49 AM
How fast was Cam Newton? Both Cam Newton & RGIII are good passers and can make plays however it takes to win. Cam had a spectacular rookie campain & they have gone from the worst team picking first to continders just with Cam & are prime for great things in the NFL. I am jealous of the Panthers right now as I see them building a team that can take over the NFC & start dominating the league for years with him at QB. While we pick our nose with retreads, the Panthers go from worst to possibly best right before our eyes.

I just predict Panthers will win a playoff game or two before Chiefs with our retreads system.

Micjones
03-01-2012, 11:50 AM
Doesn't count. He hardly even played that season.

He was that Superbowl's MVP.
What do you mean it doesn't count?

Bump
03-01-2012, 11:54 AM
How fast was Cam Newton? Both Cam Newton & RGIII are good passers and can make plays however it takes to win. Cam had a spectacular rookie campain & they have gone from the worst team picking first to continders just with Cam & are prime for great things in the NFL. I am jealous of the Panthers right now as I see them building a team that can take over the NFC & start dominating the league for years with him at QB. While we pick our nose with retreads, the Panthers go from worst to possibly best right before our eyes.

I just predict Panthers will win a playoff game or two before Chiefs with our retreads system.

I said it last year before the season ever started, Cam will get to the Superbowl and fast. He's really the first of his kind at QB, it's like Lebron James playing QB or something, he's a freak athlete, a champion and can put up 4,000 yards passing as a rookie. I think he's a douche, but he's fucking talented as hell.

jd1020
03-01-2012, 12:02 PM
How fast was Cam Newton?

On a track RG3 is faster than Newton but I'd take Newton running on a football field over RG3.

KC Tattoo
03-01-2012, 12:02 PM
I said it last year before the season ever started, Cam will get to the Superbowl and fast. He's really the first of his kind at QB, it's like Lebron James playing QB or something, he's a freak athlete, a champion and can put up 4,000 yards passing as a rookie. I think he's a douche, but he's ****ing talented as hell.

For character I like RGIII way better than Newton, I give the edge on tallent to Newton but RGIII is special IMO. I was really shocked by the performance of Newton and was even surprised that he was taken first overall last year. What would be epic is if we snag RGIII and hook up in the Super Bowl against the Panthers in a couple of short years getting there. I'm calling it now, if we get RGIII that is.

Dave Lane
03-01-2012, 01:34 PM
With the guardian posting against him I have to say I'm in favor of going all in for him now.

Easy 6
03-01-2012, 01:45 PM
I agree with him. A little mobility is good. But "run around" quarterbacks have never won shit in terms of NFL championships. You have to win from the pocket. That's not even debatable.

I pretty much agree here, i'll always prefer a pocket passer.

SNR
03-01-2012, 02:11 PM
I pretty much agree here, i'll always prefer a pocket passer.You guys are arguing a straw man, you do realize?

RGIII's mobility doesn't take away from his skills as a passer. There's absolutely no reason at all why he couldn't be like an Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay.

whoman69
03-01-2012, 02:13 PM
The article starts with a delusional statement and has a delusional premise. Why should I read it?

FAX
03-01-2012, 02:27 PM
I understand the concern, but it's easily dealt with.

In one of the Rocky movies, Mickey gave Rocky the gift of speed by spending countless hours training him to chase a chicken. What Daboll needs to do is spend countless hours teaching RG3 to chase a yard gnome.

FAX

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 02:34 PM
Because it's theGuardian. He's a ****ing moron.

Says the guy that wanted to draft Clausen.

Better watch the rocks in that glass house, dipshit.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 02:36 PM
Aaron Rodger's rushing stats:

2008: 207 yards and 4 TDs
2009: 316 yards and 5 TDs
2010: 356 yards and 4 TDs
2011: 257 yards and 3 TDs

None of those come close to him being labeled a running QB. We've already been over that you fucking window licker.

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 02:37 PM
Says the guy that wanted to draft Clausen.

Better watch the rocks in that glass house, dipshit.

Says the guy who flip flopped on Moeaki and was all over Cam Thomas's nuts.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 02:39 PM
Says the guy who flip flopped on Moeaki and was all over Cam Thomas's nuts.

Ummmmm you got the wrong guy dawg.

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 02:41 PM
Ummmmm you got the wrong guy dawg.

lolwut?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=227169

Still out there. Drafting these guys IMO would make this a very very solid draft.

But I'm sure we're going to take a long snapper.

I wonder why they fell this far?????

IMO if we had to pick between these two I'd take Thomas. We need a nose tackle like Kirstie Alley needs another sponsorship of weight watchers.

Ricky Sapp is still there too. So all hope is not lost until we take that long snapper.

Yup. Could have had all 3. But at least we got that tight end who had 300-something yards last year. Whew. That position is filled.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 02:43 PM
lolwut?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=227169

You're comparing me wanting Thomas on day 2 to you wanting Clausen with the #4 overall?

God damn you're a fucking mental midget.

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 02:45 PM
You're comparing me wanting Thomas on day 2 to you wanting Clausen with the #4 overall?

God damn you're a fucking mental midget.

I said either Berry OR Clausen at #5. Then I wanted Clausen in the 2nd round. The roids are clouding your thought processes right now.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 02:45 PM
I said either Berry OR Clausen at #5. Then I wanted Clausen in the 2nd round. The roids are clouding your thought processes right now.

Berry OR Clausen.

It's dumb as fuck. I mean dumb to a degree that is hard to get your mind around. Jimmy Clausen that early in the first. JFC........

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 02:49 PM
Berry OR Clausen.

It's dumb as fuck. I mean dumb to a degree that is hard to get your mind around. Jimmy Clausen that early in the first. JFC........

Yeah because he wasn't thought of as a 1st round pick before the draft. :rolleyes:

Chief Faithful
03-01-2012, 02:53 PM
That's like saying a strong arm is a curse because you never have to learn to read a defense.

Epic Fail 007
03-01-2012, 03:05 PM
I agree with him. A little mobility is good. But "run around" quarterbacks have never won shit in terms of NFL championships. You have to win from the pocket. That's not even debatable.

I agree completely with you.

SNR
03-01-2012, 03:08 PM
I agree with Guardian as well. You have to win from the pocket. There's no other way. That's like saying humans need oxygen to breathe.

So I guess one could summarize Guardian's critique of Griffin as, "I have issues with Griffin because humans need oxygen to breathe."

Makes about as much sense.

KurtCobain
03-01-2012, 03:10 PM
I think, at times, athletic QB's have a running mentality simply because they can have that. A human's strongest emotion is the avoidance of pain For slower QB's the way to avoid pain is to read the defense really fast and get rid of the ball to the open guy. Running isn't even an option. For guys who can move... it is an option. They don't develop the tools of a QB as naturally. It takes more discipline because they have that option.


Excellent point.

Coogs
03-01-2012, 03:17 PM
We have had nothing but pocket passers since our Super Bowl win back when I was just a pup. I'm game to try something a little different.

Simplicity
03-01-2012, 03:19 PM
Here you go, I'll do it for you........

Eli Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Big Ben

Tom Brady

Brad Johnson

Trent Dilfer

Kurt Warner

John Elway

Brett Favre

Troy Aikman

Steve Young

Mark Rypien

On that list someone will try to make a case for Ben, but he never rushed for more than 204 yards in a season. He has escapability but Ben gets away from a pass rush and then throws the ball. He doesn't actually run down field much.

Elway didn't win one until he stopped running around and got a running game behind him.

Young is the only one that qualifies but he was throwing for 3000+ yards routinely. And well, he's in the hall of fame.

Point is, you probably aren't going to win a championship with a run around QB. A guy that is mobile that can get out of the pocket and throw downfield is one thing, a Michael Vick clone?

No thanks.


Okay when Cam Newton and RG3 do it... I'll make sure you are the first to know.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 03:29 PM
Yeah because he wasn't thought of as a 1st round pick before the draft. :rolleyes:

As high as the 4th or 5th in the first?

Uhhhh no. It was a really stupid ass call by you. Monumental proportions.

I agree with Guardian as well. You have to win from the pocket. There's no other way. That's like saying humans need oxygen to breathe.

So I guess one could summarize Guardian's critique of Griffin as, "I have issues with Griffin because humans need oxygen to breathe."

Makes about as much sense.

A run around QB coming from a spread offense = huge chance to be a bust

No thanks.

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 03:37 PM
As high as the 4th or 5th in the first?

Uhhhh no. It was a really stupid ass call by you. Monumental proportions.


From NFL.com

The Panthers surprisingly land a franchise quarterback in the second round with the selection of Jimmy Clausen. The former Notre Dame star was expected to come off the boards in the early part of the first round, but questions about his leadership skills and personality led to a dramatic slide down the charts. Although the free fall has surely dampened Clausen's spirits, the opportunity to go to a franchise without an established starter could lead to early playing time, if he performs to his potential during the preseason.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 03:53 PM
From NFL.com

That means one guy gave his opinion on that.

I can do this too.......

ESPN's Todd McShay says Jimmy Clausen is likely to be taken in the first round, but considers him a second-tier quarterback prospect and would not draft him in the top-15

And this guy predicted he'd free fall just like he did because his stock had dropped.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-mock-draft-jimmy-clausen-sam-bradford-041810

Point is, Clausen never looked like a high first rounder. But some people on this board, like you, want to waste a first rounder on a QB JUST BECAUSE.

I'm all for drafting a guy in the first if he looks like the real deal. Clausen never did. EVER.

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 04:02 PM
Yeah....and we all know how much Todd McShay loved Jimmy Clausen before the draft. Way to find the one guy who fucking hated Clausen.

qabbaan
03-01-2012, 04:41 PM
How do we know RG3 is not another Clausen waiting to happen?

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 04:46 PM
How do we know RG3 is not another Clausen waiting to happen?

:spock:

ChiefFripp
03-01-2012, 04:50 PM
This article is stupid and is basically saying owners are not willing to take a chance on a black quarterback because they are afraid he'll choose the run option too much.This article is just more thinly veiled racism from Fatlock. From what I've gathered RGIII's greatest assest is that he has the mental side of the game down as well as the physical. I don't think it's fair for Fatlock to assume owners will automatically compare RGIII to someone like Vick.

SNR
03-01-2012, 04:59 PM
How do we know RG3 is not another Clausen waiting to happen?We don't. That's the REALLY scary part.

The Chiefs have done a really good job of avoiding the big busts at QB in the past 30 years. We need to continue not drafting QBs in the first round if we want to prevent the franchise-crippling busted QB in the future... especially as we make playoff runs.

Fish
03-01-2012, 05:02 PM
You guys are arguing a straw man, you do realize?

RGIII's mobility doesn't take away from his skills as a passer. There's absolutely no reason at all why he couldn't be like an Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay.

That's the thing. Idiots like Guardian and eric see that Griffon has incredible skill running the ball, and just automatically assume that he's a "Run first QB". They just can't wrap their little brains around the fact that running skill and passing skill don't have to be an inverse relationship. As RGIII's stats clearly show, you can absolutely be a great pocket QB, and also be a damn good runner. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

SNR
03-01-2012, 05:08 PM
A run around QB coming from a spread offense = huge chance to be a bust

No thanks.With the exception of Andrew Luck, RGIII has potentially the best arm of any QB drafted since Jay Cutler.

THAT'S why you draft him. He's a smart kid, he's a leader, he works his ass off, and he's got every possible tool imaginable that you want in a QB.

Is it that you don't think he can learn a pro offense? I didn't see your qualms about Sam Bradford in 2010. Just because he's a gifted runner that means Sam Bradford can make the transition but Griffin can't?

Do you think football teams are seriously going to say, "Robert, we don't want you to throw from the pocket. We're not going to teach you how to do that. Learn on your own if you want, but not on company time. We have no desire whatsoever for you to adapt to the game inside the pocket in a pro offense."

Brock
03-01-2012, 05:12 PM
In my opinion, Griffin’s speed doesn’t enhance his draft stock. It damages it.

yeah, Jason, it's going to damage him all the way to the #2 pick.

Setsuna
03-01-2012, 05:22 PM
Robert is a product of racial profiling. Luck is a tenth of a second slower than him. Whitlock is a racist, and I hope the Chiefs get him because this spread offense bullshit of a myth is going to make me punt babies. All of you STFU and get over it.

SNR
03-01-2012, 05:26 PM
The Guardian must be a bitch when he's shopping for cars.

GUARDIAN: Hi, I'm Guardian. I need a car for my wife and three kids. It's going to have to be a mini-van or an SUV, something that gets the job done and has lots of cargo space. It also needs to be ultra safe, with the highest crash test rating. I'd also like it to have good gas mileage. Oh, and my wife wants leather seats and onstar and all that luxury garbage too.

SALESMAN: Well, that's going to be pretty expensive. We only have one kind of car like that. Does it have to be a mini-van or SUV? This sport wagon has just as much cargo space and seats the same number of passengers. We can soup it up with all of the stuff your wife wants, too. And for the price of only a few miles off the fuel economy, it also has 100 more horsepower than the other model.

GUARDIAN: WEREN'T YOU LISTENING? I SAID I DIDN'T WANT A SPORTS CAR!

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 05:33 PM
JFC.......RGIII is basically Eric Berry at QB. Down to earth....hard working....physically elite.

Setsuna
03-01-2012, 05:41 PM
JFC.......RGIII is basically Eric Berry at QB. Down to earth....hard working....physically elite.

Don't tell Guardian that. He'll fucking blow up on your ass.

Mojo Jojo
03-01-2012, 05:46 PM
Why does everyone call him that? Young had one great running TD.

So did Steve Bono.

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 05:57 PM
Don't tell Guardian that. He'll fucking blow up on your ass.

That's just his roid rage.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 06:13 PM
With the exception of Andrew Luck, RGIII has potentially the best arm of any QB drafted since Jay Cutler.

THAT'S why you draft him. He's a smart kid, he's a leader, he works his ass off, and he's got every possible tool imaginable that you want in a QB.

Is it that you don't think he can learn a pro offense? I didn't see your qualms about Sam Bradford in 2010. Just because he's a gifted runner that means Sam Bradford can make the transition but Griffin can't?

Do you think football teams are seriously going to say, "Robert, we don't want you to throw from the pocket. We're not going to teach you how to do that. Learn on your own if you want, but not on company time. We have no desire whatsoever for you to adapt to the game inside the pocket in a pro offense."

I remember hearing how Vick was going to change the QB position, and that "you don't pass up drafting Michael Jordan".

Like I said, this board was full of ass clowns that wanted to draft Clausen in the first round last year. Every year there are sheep here who want to draft a QB just for the sake of it.

You can talk all you want about RGIII, but the guy has the knock of being a running QB coming out of a spread offense against him. These two things do not bode well for becoming a franchise quarterback.

Now you can insult me all you want, but it doesn't change the god damn facts.

SNR
03-01-2012, 06:20 PM
I remember hearing how Vick was going to change the QB position, and that "you don't pass up drafting Michael Jordan".

Like I said, this board was full of ass clowns that wanted to draft Clausen in the first round last year. Every year there are sheep here who want to draft a QB just for the sake of it.

You can talk all you want about RGIII, but the guy has the knock of being a running QB coming out of a spread offense against him. These two things do not bode well for becoming a franchise quarterback.

Now you can insult me all you want, but it doesn't change the god damn facts.A running QB runs because that's what he does best. His ability to run is superior to his ability to pass. That's what Michael Vick was.

As great of a runner RGIII is, he's equally as great of a thrower. I would say he's even better at throwing than he is running. He's got a damn fine arm that will serve him well in the pros.

That's not the same fucking thing as drafting Tim Tebow or Eric Crouch, dipshit.

Psyko Tek
03-01-2012, 06:27 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/images/redskins/oldies/dougw.jpg

yeah, but how long was he a black quarterback?

SNR
03-01-2012, 06:29 PM
Let's get philosophical for a moment.

Why do QBs sometimes run? What makes a QB a "running QB"? Can you describe what Plato would call the QBness of a QB? All QBs run, after all. The fact that we have these two terms seems to be that there's a certain amount of "run" you can add to the QB formula to turn him into a "running QB"?

An option QB is clearly a running QB, right? Marques Haggans is a running QB. Michael Bishop is a running QB. Eric Crouch is a running QB.

Some people called Donovan McNabb a running QB when he entered the league. Is he a running QB? Did he stop being a running QB? When?

Is RGIII doomed to be a running QB for the rest of his life if he ran too much in his youth? Is being a running QB like having diabetes?

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 06:34 PM
I knew someone would bring up Steve Young.

1. There is always going to be an exception to every rule. But Steve Young was just very mobile, he wasn't a run around QB like RGIII is. Mike Vick, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb, Vince Young, etc. None of these guys ever won a championship.

2. Steve Young could win from the pocket and did.

3. Run around QB's don't win championships.

It's not really even a debate. Someone can try, but list me the last 20 SB winning QB's and tell me if they are considered pocket passers or mobile QB's.

Explain to me how McNabb is a running QB?

He's had 3 seasons in his entire career where he went over 400 yards rushing.

You're confusing rushing QBs with QBs who extend plays with their mobility ala McNabb and Roethlisberger.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 06:36 PM
A running QB runs because that's what he does best. His ability to run is superior to his ability to pass. That's what Michael Vick was.

As great of a runner RGIII is, he's equally as great of a thrower. I would say he's even better at throwing than he is running. He's got a damn fine arm that will serve him well in the pros.

That's not the same ****ing thing as drafting Tim Tebow or Eric Crouch, dipshit.

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0owSUG-0XkFNOEPMQo-YxMDLsTw9V3jtKx-zWlYboaDL_2vwE

BossChief
03-01-2012, 06:45 PM
Berry OR Clausen.

It's dumb as fuck. I mean dumb to a degree that is hard to get your mind around. Jimmy Clausen that early in the first. JFC........

Most of us that wanted to draft Clausen gave the kid a little more value to us than other teams due to his history with Charlie Weis knowing his ins and outs as a player...what types of plays he runs best, what to stay away from, how to coach him, etc.

Just because he didn't do very well in Carolina, doesn't mean the same result would have happened here under completely different circumstances.

Would he have succeeded in KC?...I doubt it, but nobody really knows because we had a completely unique situation here that the kid might have done well in.

Who knows?

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 06:47 PM
Most of us that wanted to draft Clausen gave the kid a little more value to us than other teams due to his history with Charlie Weis knowing his ins and outs as a player...what types of plays he runs best, what to stay away from, how to coach him, etc.

Just because he didn't do very well in Carolina, doesn't mean the same result would have happened here under completely different circumstances.

Would he have succeeded in KC?...I doubt it, but nobody really knows because we had a completely unique situation here that the kid might have done well in.

Who knows?

No we know that Clausen sucks.

Case closed.

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 06:47 PM
Most of us that wanted to draft Clausen gave the kid a little more value to us than other teams due to his history with Charlie Weis knowing his ins and outs as a player...what types of plays he runs best, what to stay away from, how to coach him, etc.

Just because he didn't do very well in Carolina, doesn't mean the same result would have happened here under completely different circumstances.

Would he have succeeded in KC?...I doubt it, but nobody really knows because we had a completely unique situation here that the kid might have done well in.

Who knows?

TheGuardian knows. He knows everything.

BossChief
03-01-2012, 06:54 PM
I remember hearing how Vick was going to change the QB position, and that "you don't pass up drafting Michael Jordan".

Like I said, this board was full of ass clowns that wanted to draft Clausen in the first round last year. Every year there are sheep here who want to draft a QB just for the sake of it.

You can talk all you want about RGIII, but the guy has the knock of being a running QB coming out of a spread offense against him. These two things do not bode well for becoming a franchise quarterback.

Now you can insult me all you want, but it doesn't change the god damn facts.
So, basically you wouldn't draft him because of the way his coaches Called games?

That's a little foolish, don't ya think?

His skill set and mental makeup add up to a quarterback with limitless potential at the next level.

There isn't a single tool you look for in franchise quarterbacks that this kid doesn't possess.

Not one.

But, he is black.

So, yeah...he is just another Vick.

Cmon, man.

BossChief
03-01-2012, 07:08 PM
No we know that Clausen sucks.

Case closed.

Go look at the last 10 hall of fame quarterbacks rookie years and get back to me.

And don't go off in some tangent on how I called Jimmy Clausen a HOF quarterback, I didn't.

I'm just saying that almost every single one of them looked terrible their rookie year.

Peyton lead the whole league in picks
Aikman went 0-11 and looked terrible only completing 53% and threw twice as many picks as TDs
Elway Completed 47% and threw twice as many picks as TDs

I do agree though, Clausen didnt show much to be excited about as a rookie and mist likely would have never amounted to anything and Berry was absolutely the better pick.

No question.

BossChief
03-01-2012, 07:09 PM
Haha did I chase him off?

SNR
03-01-2012, 07:10 PM
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0owSUG-0XkFNOEPMQo-YxMDLsTw9V3jtKx-zWlYboaDL_2vwEIf this thread is one giant troll job by you, then good for you. You got me.

If you're actually serious about the shit you've been writing about RGIII and running QBs, then you're a goddamn retard, and Jesus hates you.

keg in kc
03-01-2012, 07:14 PM
Good ol' Tardian.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 07:30 PM
If this thread is one giant troll job by you, then good for you. You got me.

If you're actually serious about the shit you've been writing about RGIII and running QBs, then you're a goddamn retard, and Jesus hates you.

Everything I wrote is backed by super bowl wins and history you fucking pussy.

Good ol' Tardian.

Right. I got called this last year about the Clausen shit too.

How'd that pan out?

Kthanks

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 07:44 PM
Wow.....you're really amazing. You claimed one player was going to suck. Good job bro. You should work for ESPN.

Chief_For_Life58
03-01-2012, 08:00 PM
Everything I wrote is backed by super bowl wins and history you ****ing pussy.


Ok we all agree that running qbs dont win superbowls. The difference is that Robert is not a "running" qb. Yes he ran in college because he could. But this kid can straight up sling it. Hes got the arm. He can make all the anticipation throws
I was at the CU Baylor game about 2 years ago. He threw for like 400 yards and you know who the corners were for CU that year? jimmy smith (ravens) and a soon to be baller nfl corner with the kc Chiefs, Jalil Brown. rg3 was throwing bubble screens and bombs all day.
Robert can only be compared to newton in the league imo. Newton is the only guy who can chunk it and run when needed. RG3 isnt stupid. Infact hes probably smarter then 95% of this board. He knows you win with your arm first, second, and third in most cases. Hes going to be a good nfl quarterback. Now is it worth what we have to give up to get him? Im not sure.
Still dont think theres anyway we get him. The redskins are going to outbid us and with them having the 6th and as well the browns having the 4th.
I think Manning is the better choice at this point. Lets face it. We need to win NOW. 3 years from might be too late. Draft a qb, resign orton and sign manning to a couple years. Drinks are on me when manning and eric are holding up the lombardi parading down ward parkway

SNR
03-01-2012, 08:49 PM
:facepalm:

I should have known when you let me troll you in the Laron Landry thread.

You really are that fucking dumb.

hometeam
03-01-2012, 08:50 PM
I havent read all the responses in this thread.

But its easy to sum up.


Whitlock is a fucking idiot.

SNR
03-01-2012, 08:52 PM
Ok we all agree that running qbs dont win superbowls. The difference is that Robert is not a "running" qb. Yes he ran in college because he could. But this kid can straight up sling it. Hes got the arm. He can make all the anticipation throws
I was at the CU Baylor game about 2 years ago. He threw for like 400 yards and you know who the corners were for CU that year? jimmy smith (ravens) and a soon to be baller nfl corner with the kc Chiefs, Jalil Brown. rg3 was throwing bubble screens and bombs all day.
Robert can only be compared to newton in the league imo. Newton is the only guy who can chunk it and run when needed. RG3 isnt stupid. Infact hes probably smarter then 95% of this board. He knows you win with your arm first, second, and third in most cases. Hes going to be a good nfl quarterback. Now is it worth what we have to give up to get him? Im not sure.
Still dont think theres anyway we get him. The redskins are going to outbid us and with them having the 6th and as well the browns having the 4th.
I think Manning is the better choice at this point. Lets face it. We need to win NOW. 3 years from might be too late. Draft a qb, resign orton and sign manning to a couple years. Drinks are on me when manning and eric are holding up the lombardi parading down ward parkwayDon't bother. His brain doesn't do well with multi-faceted concepts.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 08:54 PM
Don't bother. His brain doesn't do well with multi-faceted concepts.

You're trying to make this shit that deep of a discussion?

My track record here on players is proven. I don't miss much. Again, you can insult me all you want, but it's fact.

Again, you guys were the bitches giving each other double dutch rudders over Jimmy Clausen. This is just another case of it.

Dicky McElephant
03-01-2012, 09:01 PM
You're trying to make this shit that deep of a discussion?

My track record here on players is proven. I don't miss much. Again, you can insult me all you want, but it's fact.

Again, you guys were the bitches giving each other double dutch rudders over Jimmy Clausen. This is just another case of it.

Show me your posts that prove your track record. The only thing you're harping on is Clausen.

SNR
03-01-2012, 09:08 PM
You're trying to make this shit that deep of a discussion?

My track record here on players is proven. I don't miss much. Again, you can insult me all you want, but it's fact.

Again, you guys were the bitches giving each other double dutch rudders over Jimmy Clausen. This is just another case of it.I normally think you're a knowledgeable poster when it comes to football, so I'm having trouble figuring out why you're falling into the trap of, "QB HAS ATHLETIC ABILITY = KORDELL STEWART = NO WORKY"

Do you deny that RGIII's skills as a passer (as evidenced by his games at Baylor this year) aren't good enough for the pros just because he did what his coaches told him to do, which was make plays with his feet because he could? That really is a horrendously narrow definition of what a player can do.

The only point you might have is the spread offense thing. But again, I never saw you berating Sam Bradford in 2010 because of the offense he ran. I never saw you do that with Blaine Gabbert or Colt McCoy. Do those guys suck because they ran a spread offense in college and are being asked to do things in the pros they can't?

Your definition of RGIII = KORDELL STEWART makes you look like you've never watched a single fucking game of his this season. You're also pretty much saying that because he used his feet as much as he did in college, it's impossible for him to make the transition that Donovan McNabb did, and that he'll never become a great QB because coaches are going to use him the same way they did in college.

That's just fucking moronic. That's why I'm calling you a retard, and why it doesn't mean shit if you called Jimmy Clausen. Hell, I don't give a flying fuck if you predicted the coming of Kurt Warner and Tom Brady. Right now in this discussion you're being an obtuse retard.

TheGuardian
03-01-2012, 09:12 PM
I normally think you're a knowledgeable poster when it comes to football, so I'm having trouble figuring out why you're falling into the trap of, "QB HAS ATHLETIC ABILITY = KORDELL STEWART = NO WORKY"

Do you deny that RGIII's skills as a passer (as evidenced by his games at Baylor this year) aren't good enough for the pros just because he did what his coaches told him to do, which was make plays with his feet because he could? That really is a horrendously narrow definition of what a player can do.

The only point you might have is the spread offense thing. But again, I never saw you berating Sam Bradford in 2010 because of the offense he ran. I never saw you do that with Blaine Gabbert or Colt McCoy. Do those guys suck because they ran a spread offense in college and are being asked to do things in the pros they can't?

Your definition of RGIII = KORDELL STEWART makes you look like you've never watched a single ****ing game of his this season. You're also pretty much saying that because he used his feet as much as he did in college, it's impossible for him to make the transition that Donovan McNabb did, and that he'll never become a great QB because coaches are going to use him the same way they did in college.

That's just ****ing moronic. That's why I'm calling you a retard, and why it doesn't mean shit if you called Jimmy Clausen. Hell, I don't give a flying **** if you predicted the coming of Kurt Warner and Tom Brady. Right now in this discussion you're being an obtuse retard.

I didn't like Bradford either dawg.

My knock on McCoy was his toughness.

I haven't said that RGIII is going to be a bust, I just don't think with those knocks (perceived or real) that he's some sure bet.

If we were talking about trading up for Luck, I'd be all for it.

Consistent1
03-01-2012, 09:52 PM
I think if you give Griffin a good line that he is intelligent and skilled enough to not want to take a Tebow type beating. He knows he isn't some gigantic fugga like Newton and will want to keep himself healthy. You could still run a few option type plays every once in awhile with him. Just a couple a game without some give it away formation. He should be a good quarterback and not stupid enough to go early days of Vick. Chiefs aren't going to get him though.

WhiteWhale
03-01-2012, 10:55 PM
Yeah....and we all know how much Todd McShay loved Jimmy Clausen before the draft. Way to find the one guy who ****ing hated Clausen.

Apparently there were also 32 GM's that didn't think he was all that fantastic either.

Fans and media over-rated Clausen. Teams knew better.

Setsuna
03-02-2012, 11:08 AM
I didn't like Bradford either dawg.

My knock on McCoy was his toughness.

I haven't said that RGIII is going to be a bust, I just don't think with those knocks (perceived or real) that he's some sure bet.

If we were talking about trading up for Luck, I'd be all for it.

NO ONE is a sure bet you retard. I don't understand you dude. I honestly think you might be racist. Oh and hating Clausen doesn't detract from you being a racist, it just means you hate douche bags, as do I. The knock on you is that you form an opinion on something and you fight it tooth and nail no matter what logical statements are being made that refutes your opinion. And then you act like everything you say is fact since you've been "right" on a couple of things. I mean can you get that blind and dumb? Seriously? Apparently people respect you on here, but from what I've seen since I've been here is you are a fucking idiot who when backed into a corner resorts to posting stupid jpegs thinking you've won the argument when it makes you look like a child who can't get their way. I'll never like or respect you as others do and I'm ok with that.

Dicky McElephant
03-02-2012, 11:20 AM
Apparently there were also 32 GM's that didn't think he was all that fantastic either.

Fans and media over-rated Clausen. Teams knew better.

Dumbest argument ever.

Fish
03-02-2012, 11:25 AM
Apparently there were also 32 GM's that didn't think he was all that fantastic either.

Fans and media over-rated Clausen. Teams knew better.

LOL... yeah... and 32 teams passed over Tom Brady 5 consecutive times.

Teams always know better huh?

Chiefnj2
03-02-2012, 11:25 AM
Dumbest argument ever.

Not really.

I remember when Daniel Jeremiah (sp?) had his blog up that year and about a month before the draft removed Clausen from the first round and the drafturbators went into a "that's why he's an ex-scout" mode. He said teams and real scouts didn't view him as a 1st round pick.

Remember, the draft is for entertainment now. Multiple nights of primetime tv, etc. The networks want controversy, they want debate, they love it when a prospect falls and the player sits in Radio City for hours.

If the Rams didn't have Bradford the networks would be beside themselves because the #1 and #2 spots would be set in stone and they'd have to find something else to hype up over the next month. Maybe build up Tannehill or Osweiler. Just because the analysts are saying something doesn't mean they believe it or know it to be true - ratings.

listopencil
03-02-2012, 11:49 AM
Doesn't count. He hardly even played that season.

Bullshit. He's the reason that the Redskins won that Super Bowl.