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View Full Version : Chiefs The math isn't there for RG3.


Direckshun
03-02-2012, 09:41 AM
What the Browns have to work with, should they be desperate enough: #4 pick #22 pick #37 pick #68 pick several mid- and low-rounders a full board of top-ten picks in 2013 LT Joe Thomas (whom they could trade with Jason Smith or Roger Saffold in return) CB Joe Haden What the Redskins have to work with, and they will be desperate enough: #6 pick #39 pick #70 pick several mid- and low-rounders a full board of top-ten picks in 2013 WR Santana Moss (not worth much...) What the Chiefs have to work with: #11 pick #44 pick #75 pick several mid- and low-rounders a full board of bottom-ten picks in 2013 WR Dwayne Bowe DT Glenn Dorsey OT Branden Albert (Saffold or Smith in return?)
So, needless to say folks, I don't see it.

For any pick we give up, the Redskins can (and will) match and do us one better. Want to give up six picks, our 1st through 3rd rounds in 2012 and 2013? So will the Redskins, and their picks will be better.

The only place we can flank the 'Skins would be on veteran talent. I think we'd all be okay with Dorsey, but he's not going to be a dealmaker. Albert would, but he would be a killshot to our offensive line, and the Browns can just outflank us with Joe Thomas if they're hungry enough.

Which means the only chip we have that no other team has is Dwayne Bowe.

So ask yourself: are you willing to part ways with Dwayne Bowe, not to mention any meaningful picks in the next two drafts, for RG3?

I'm not. And Pioli definitely isn't.

The math isn't there.

the Talking Can
03-02-2012, 09:42 AM
I'd personally pack Bowe's house to get a QB...

but i agree we have no shot, and aren't trying anyways

Direckshun
03-02-2012, 09:43 AM
I'd personally pack Bowe's house to get a QB...

but i agree we have no shot, and aren't trying anyways

Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door.

Bowe is a can't-lose.

DaKCMan AP
03-02-2012, 09:44 AM
Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door.

Not even close. Wow.

the Talking Can
03-02-2012, 09:45 AM
Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door.

Bowe is a can't-lose.

wtf?

that's nonsense....

jd1020
03-02-2012, 09:47 AM
Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door.

Bowe is a can't-lose.

Ya. Sending a WR who is hoping to be targeted 10 times a game is the same as sending someone who touches the ball on every offensive snap. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

Direckshun
03-02-2012, 09:47 AM
Not even close. Wow.

Not even close?

You're overplaying your hand.

If you said the value was still slanted towards the QB, I'd buy it.

But not even close?

Pick any other young Top 5 WR, and young franchise QB.

Calvin Johnson, Matt Ryan.

You can't tell me plenty of teams wouldn't consider the former over the latter.

Direckshun
03-02-2012, 09:48 AM
Ya. Sending a WR who is hoping to be targeted 10 times a game is the same as sending someone who touches the ball on every offensive snap. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

Bowe is targeted 10 times a game, but teams have to account for him every snap of the game.

DaKCMan AP
03-02-2012, 09:49 AM
Not even close?

You're overplaying your hand.

If you said the value was still slanted towards the QB, I'd buy it.

But not even close?

Pick any other young Top 5 WR, and young franchise QB.

Calvin Johnson, Matt Ryan.

You can't tell me plenty of teams wouldn't consider the former over the latter.

You're moving the goal posts.

"Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door."

"Pick any other young Top 5 WR, and young franchise QB."

Okie_Apparition
03-02-2012, 09:50 AM
Javier Arenas throws double birds in your general face

Direckshun
03-02-2012, 09:51 AM
You're moving the goal posts.

"Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door."

"Pick any other young Top 5 WR, and young franchise QB."

That's the choice we'd be having to make, is it not?

A young, Top 5 receiver (Bowe), and a young franchise QB.

That's the choice we're making.

To say it's "not even close"... well, I'd bet you're wrong.

Fritz88
03-02-2012, 09:51 AM
Browns go after Flynn.

Redskins go after Peyton.

Suddenly, we have something to work with.

Again, throwing the entire sink to get RGIII is not worth it.

Peyton is the answer.

boogblaster
03-02-2012, 09:52 AM
Bowe is a weapon .. but we need a QB so fricking bad ......

DBoweShow
03-02-2012, 09:52 AM
That's the choice we'd be having to make, is it not?

A young, Top 5 receiver (Bowe), and a young franchise QB.

That's the choice we're making.

To say it's "not even close"... well, I'd bet you're wrong.

Don't you mean a young POTENTIAL franchise quarterback.

the Talking Can
03-02-2012, 09:52 AM
That's the choice we'd be having to make, is it not?

A young, Top 5 receiver (Bowe), and a young franchise QB.

That's the choice we're making.

To say it's "not even close"... well, I'd bet you're wrong.

it's not even close

on any planet in the universe

Direckshun
03-02-2012, 09:53 AM
it's not even close

on any planet in the universe

So you're saying teams wouldn't hesitate to pick Ryan over Calvin Johnson.

Because I bet you're wrong.

Direckshun
03-02-2012, 09:53 AM
Don't you mean a young POTENTIAL franchise quarterback.

Exactly. I'm being generous even assuming RG3 pans out.

Mr_Tomahawk
03-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Bowe is good, but is he a top 5 "young" receiver? He has had one pro-bowl caliber season. As far as I see, he has underachieved most seasons given the expectations with him.

aturnis
03-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Not even close?

You're overplaying your hand.

If you said the value was still slanted towards the QB, I'd buy it.

But not even close?

Pick any other young Top 5 WR, and young franchise QB.

Calvin Johnson, Matt Ryan.

You can't tell me plenty of teams wouldn't consider the former over the latter.

Bowe is NOT a top 5 WR...

Direckshun
03-02-2012, 09:57 AM
Bowe is good, but is he a top 5 "young" receiver? He has had one pro-bowl caliber season. As far as I see, he has underachieved most seasons given the expectations with him.

Bowe is NOT a top 5 WR...

Bullshit. Bowe is Top 5.

He is physically impeccable and has played as well in his first several years as any receiver possibly can.

All the while we've had WHO throwing to him?

Damon Huard. Brody Croyle. Tyler Thigpen. Matt Cassel. Tyler Palko. Kyle Orton.

And until last year, no help.

Meanwhile he has absolutely zero character concerns. The man shows up, plays hard and almost always very well, is a good presence in the locker room, and makes the team much, much better.

He is a Top 5 WR. We can't lose him.

Sofa King
03-02-2012, 09:57 AM
Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door.

Bowe is a can't-lose.

LMAO

Mr_Tomahawk
03-02-2012, 10:00 AM
Fitz, Megatron, Jennings, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson are all "young" WR off the top of my head I would take over Bowe...

Molitoth
03-02-2012, 10:02 AM
Bullshit. Bowe is Top 5.

He is physically impeccable and has played as well in his first several years as any receiver possibly can.

All the while we've had WHO throwing to him?

Damon Huard. Brody Croyle. Tyler Thigpen. Matt Cassel. Tyler Palko. Kyle Orton.

And until last year, no help.

Meanwhile he has absolutely zero character concerns. The man shows up, plays hard and almost always very well, is a good presence in the locker room, and makes the team much, much better.

He is a Top 5 WR. We can't lose him.

While I agree; he still drops too many balls. But I guess he makes up for those by catching stuff he shouldn't be able to thanks to Cassel's noodle arm.

Direckshun
03-02-2012, 10:03 AM
Fitz, Megatron, Jennings, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson are all "young" WR off the top of my head I would take over Bowe...

While they are all great, if you give Bowe a true franchise QB, he's putting up scary numbers.

As it is, he's already in the conversation.

Inmem58
03-02-2012, 10:04 AM
Bowe is NOT a top 5 WR...


Only bc his quartberbacks have been shit.

Direckshun
03-02-2012, 10:04 AM
While I agree; he still drops too many balls. But I guess he makes up for those by catching stuff he shouldn't be able to thanks to Cassel's noodle arm.

He does.

But he's a critical talent for this team. We're not going anywhere without him or a player similar to him on the roster.

And they are just as hard to find as franchise QBs.

L.A. Chieffan
03-02-2012, 10:06 AM
bowe isnt a top 5 receiver. and hes not really that young either

Mr. Laz
03-02-2012, 10:12 AM
list your top 5 wr's

el borracho
03-02-2012, 10:17 AM
Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door.

Bowe is a can't-lose.

No.

DaKCMan AP
03-02-2012, 10:19 AM
All the while we've had WHO throwing to him?

Damon Huard. Brody Croyle. Tyler Thigpen. Matt Cassel. Tyler Palko. Kyle Orton.


There's six reasons why a franchise QB >>>>> top-5 WR.

L.A. Chieffan
03-02-2012, 10:21 AM
a johnson
fitz
megattron
roddy white
nicks
cruz
nelson
wallace
marshall

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-02-2012, 10:23 AM
St. Louis beat reporter Jim Thomas on sirius radio this morning said the Rams are going to trade with either the Browns or Skins.
Thomas said the Rams would be weary of trading with the Dolphins. Why? Because the Rams want to keep a high pick to get an elite talent while gaining more picks and the Rams feel that all of the elite players that would fit would be gone by pick #8.
Thomas also said that Fischer and co would like to get a talent like WR Justin Blackmon, CB Morris Claiborne, LT Matt Kalil or LT Riley Reiff.

Micjones
03-02-2012, 10:24 AM
I wouldn't even consider parting with Bowe to draft RGIII.
As bad as I want him, we're in no real position to get him.

Brock
03-02-2012, 10:27 AM
St. Louis beat reporter Jim Thomas on sirius radio this morning said the Rams are going to trade with either the Browns or Skins.
Thomas said the Rams would be weary of trading with the Dolphins. Why? Because the Rams want to keep a high pick to get an elite talent while gaining more picks and the Rams feel that all of the elite players that would fit would be gone be pick #8.
Thomas also said that Fischer and co would like to get a talent like WR Justin Blackmon, CB Morris Claiborne, LT Matt Kalil or LT Riley Reiff.

I believe that's how it's going to play out.

-King-
03-02-2012, 10:29 AM
Fitz, Megatron, Jennings, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson are all "young" WR off the top of my head I would take over Bowe...

What the fuck?

Okie_Apparition
03-02-2012, 10:30 AM
Will it move back to Luck
or move on to Tannehill
it will not die

kaplin42
03-02-2012, 10:35 AM
Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door.

Bowe is a can't-lose.

Sure, maybe, let me know when we have a top 5 WR.

Bowe is good, he is not a top 5 by any means. When you constantly drop balls that hit you in the numbers, you are not top 5.

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-02-2012, 10:35 AM
I believe that's how it's going to play out.

If it was me i would trade with the browns cause in 2013 they will have a top 10 pick again.

Ebolapox
03-02-2012, 10:42 AM
a franchise QB can get by without all-world WRs in order to win.

a top 5 WR needs a great QB in order for his talent to really come out, OR the team has to target him constantly.

given the two previous statements, I'll take the first every freaking time. without peyton manning, nobody knows who the hell the colts WRs (other than reggie wayne) are.

Saul Good
03-02-2012, 10:48 AM
Fitz, Megatron, Jennings, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson are all "young" WR off the top of my head I would take over Bowe...

Vincent Jackson? WTF?

Notice the QBs that have been throwing those guys the ball. BTW.

noa
03-02-2012, 11:17 AM
Direckshun departed from reality in this thread. Having a franchise QB allows you to build up every other aspect of your team through draft and FA for around 10-15 years. Even if you have the number one receiver, you don't get that luxury for that long. Receivers wear down or skills diminish, plus you still have to keep drafting and signing more receivers. The QB spot, if truly a franchise QB, allows you to be set at the most important position for over a decade.
Posted via Mobile Device

Okie_Apparition
03-02-2012, 11:23 AM
How late into a career does a QB win a SB now
Peyton can't, Brady can't
that 10-15 year window with the same team is gone

Pestilence
03-02-2012, 11:30 AM
So you're saying teams wouldn't hesitate to pick Ryan over Calvin Johnson.

Because I bet you're wrong.

Except you're not using the correct QB.

How many teams would take Calvin Johnson over Aaron Rodgers?

Coogs
03-02-2012, 11:52 AM
If RGIII is the man, then the math works. Years down the road, draft picks given up will not be missed.

DaFace
03-02-2012, 11:54 AM
Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door.

Bowe is a can't-lose.

It's been said already, but this is 100% crap. If it's RGIII for Bowe straight up, that's not even a question. The problem is, I think it'll take more than Bowe to get the deal done.

Bump
03-02-2012, 11:56 AM
Sending a Top 5 WR out the door is like sending a franchise QB out the door.

Bowe is a can't-lose.

come on man

Tuckdaddy
03-02-2012, 12:03 PM
Send Bowe and anyone else they want for RG 3. We need this to start erasing 30 years of shit. Eli, Brady, Ben, Brees and Aaron are a top rated QB's. You will win nothing without one.

aturnis
03-02-2012, 12:25 PM
While they are all great, if you give Bowe a true franchise QB, he's putting up scary numbers.

As it is, he's already in the conversation.

I can argue the contrary just as easily. While Bowe's QB's have been shit, they have all depended on him immensely. If a true franchise QB came to town, Bowe's targets might drop solely b/c the QB has the ability to spread the ball around.

Bewbies
03-02-2012, 12:25 PM
Send Bowe sign Colston?

I still don't think Cleveland goes after Rg3. Without them STL has nothing, so they have to keep up the perception that CLE is all over them...

SNR
03-02-2012, 12:30 PM
We never had the ammo for RGIII.

We DO, however, have the ammo for Peyton.

It's just unfortunate that our "big" QB hope of the Pioli era is a 35-year old who might not even be healthy enough to play.

Okie_Apparition
03-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Peyton will mean drafting at the bottom 4th of rounds of the draft
but atleast still drafting

Sofa King
03-02-2012, 12:37 PM
We never had the ammo for RGIII.

We DO, however, have the ammo for Peyton.

It's just unfortunate that our "big" QB hope of the Pioli era is a 38-year old who might not even be healthy enough to play.

:hmmm:

SNR
03-02-2012, 12:59 PM
:hmmm:Quit changing my words in the quotes.

MODS!

Sofa King
03-02-2012, 01:14 PM
Quit changing my words in the quotes.

MODS!

Ha. nice edit.

whoman69
03-02-2012, 01:43 PM
Getting RG3 has always been a pipe dream Even if the teams ahead of us fill their QB needs before the draft, that isn't a slam dunk they still won't want RG3. Throw the Dolphins into the equation. If the Chief go into the draft with still no other option but Cassel, this offseason would be a fail. Perhaps then you go all in, but we have to give up too much. STL is not going to take Bowe. They already have cap issues and can't take on a close to $9million cap hit. That would also mean we have even less talent than last year. We're looking to not only fill the holes that we already have but add WR to the mix.

htismaqe
03-02-2012, 01:46 PM
Getting RG3 has always been a pipe dream Even if the teams ahead of us fill their QB needs before the draft, that isn't a slam dunk they still won't want RG3. Throw the Dolphins into the equation. If the Chief go into the draft with still no other option but Cassel, this offseason would be a fail. Perhaps then you go all in, but we have to give up too much. STL is not going to take Bowe. They already have cap issues and can't take on a close to $9million cap hit. That would also mean we have even less talent than last year. We're looking to not only fill the holes that we already have but add WR to the mix.

This, this, and this.

Hoover
03-02-2012, 01:57 PM
The problem is that RG3 is not a sure thing. He looks like it, but you never know.

Getting RG3 but not having Bowe for him to throw too is stupid.

Okie_Apparition
03-02-2012, 02:37 PM
Getting RG3 has always been a pipe dream Even if the teams ahead of us fill their QB needs before the draft, that isn't a slam dunk they still won't want RG3. Throw the Dolphins into the equation. If the Chief go into the draft with still no other option but Cassel, this offseason would be a fail. Perhaps then you go all in, but we have to give up too much. STL is not going to take Bowe. They already have cap issues and can't take on a close to $9million cap hit. That would also mean we have even less talent than last year. We're looking to not only fill the holes that we already have but add WR to the mix.

This has been ignored the other 15 zillion times
maybe it'll take this time
I have doubts

GordonGekko
03-02-2012, 02:42 PM
With a legit QB, Bowe is easily a 1500 yd receiver with 10 tds. Easy.

Still, a franchise QB is the most important position in SPORTS, so yeah way more valuable than a top-5 WR.

GordonGekko
03-02-2012, 02:43 PM
The problem is that RG3 is not a sure thing. He looks like it, but you never know.

Getting RG3 but not having Bowe for him to throw too is stupid.

This.

And neither is Luck, the guy could suck balls like Carr, VYoung, Leinhart, Sanchez, etc.

qabbaan
03-02-2012, 03:13 PM
Bowe's value is minuscule compared to a franchise QB.

whoman69
03-02-2012, 04:15 PM
This has been ignored the other 15 zillion times
maybe it'll take this time
I have doubts

It only took three more posts to ignore it.

lcarus
03-02-2012, 04:17 PM
"The math isn't there for RG3"

Ever since that damn Jeremy Lin, now all of a sudden math skills are important to pro athletes? WTF? Who cares if RG3 is good at math?

TheGuardian
03-02-2012, 04:42 PM
Giving up a whole draft for 1 player is stupid and so is anyone remotely suggesting this.

Kill yourself.

lcarus
03-02-2012, 04:43 PM
Giving up a whole draft for 1 player is stupid and so is anyone remotely suggesting this.

Kill yourself.

Going by the majority of Chiefs history, our whole drafts are usually pretty worthless. We're lucky if we get one worthy player per year. Might as well make it a coveted QB.