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T-post Tom
03-04-2012, 08:31 PM
Pushing franchise tag decision to deadline makes sense for Chiefs

It comes as no surprise that Monday’s 3:00 PM (CST) franchise tag deadline is closing in with the Chiefs yet to act. Hurrying to designate a franchise player offers no advantage to the team.

The assumption for months has been that Kansas City will place the franchise tag on either WR Dwayne Bowe or CB Brandon Carr, who are both set to become unrestricted free agents on March 13th. When the Chiefs signed free agent CB Stanford Routtlast month, Bowe became the overwhelming favorite to receive the tag.

But tagging Bowe isn’t a lock. Signing the Pro Bowler to a long-term contract extension in advance of Monday’s deadline would tilt the balance of Kansas City’s free agent situation heading into 2012.

Chiefs GM Scott Pioli reiterated at the NFL Scouting Combine that the team would like to keep both Bowe and Carr in Kansas City. Securing a long-term deal with Bowe before Monday’s deadline would allow the Chiefs to use the franchise tag on another player, presumably Carr.

If that were to occur, the chatter surrounding free agency would shift from its current state.

Would the team seek a trade partner for a tagged Carr? Would long-term contract talks with Carr continue? It’s all tough to decipher with the relative silence of all parties during contract discussions.

In the meantime, this is what we know.

Designating Bowe as the franchise player would cost around $9.4 million in 2012. Tagging Carr would run the team about $10.6 million. The Chiefs can’t tag both players. Teams are permitted just one franchise or transition tag each season under the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

For those who’ve inquired about QB Kyle Orton being a franchise tag possibility, it would cost about $14.4 million for a one-year deal. Unlikely.

Once the Chiefs tag a player, two options exist. The team may choose to use either an “exclusive” or a “non-exclusive” tag.

The “exclusive” franchise tag means that the player is restricted from negotiating with any other club. His rights are secure.

Exclusive tags amount to a one-year contract equal to an amount no less than the average of the top-five salaries at that player’s position over the last five seasons. If a player earned more than that average the previous season, his one-year contract would be worth 120% of his previous salary.

A “non-exclusive” tag gives the franchised player freedom to negotiated deals with other clubs once free agency begins on March 13th. The Chiefs would reserve the right to match any offer from another club or receive two first-round draft picks as compensation. Once the franchised player signs his one-year tender, he’s restricted from negotiating with other clubs.

Using the “non-exclusive” franchise tag guarantees the player the average of the top five salaries at the player’s position over the last five seasons, or 120 percent of the player’s previous year’s salary, whichever is greater.

The Chiefs used the “non-exclusive” franchise tag on OLB Tamba Hali last season. Hali would eventually agree to a long-term contract extension prior to the start of the regular season.

It’s not uncommon to see a franchised player go on and agree to a long-term contract with his current club.

Six players in Chiefs history have received the franchise tag and all but one eventually agreed to a long-term deal that kept them in Kansas City.

Even DE Dan Williams, who sat out the entire 1998 season after receiving the franchise tag, eventually agreed to a new contract with the team. The lone exception was DE Jared Allen, who was traded to the Vikings shortly after receiving the franchise tag in 2008.

All-Time Franchise Players: Kansas City Chiefs

DE Neil Smith, 1993

DE Dan Williams, 1998

G Will Shields, 2000

TE Tony Gonzalez, 2002

DE Jared Allen, 2008

OLB Tamba Hali, 2011



http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/Pushing-franchise-tag-decision-to-deadline-makes-sense-for-Chiefs/172c7686-93aa-474d-aea1-63b73fe23f96

Mr_Tomahawk
03-04-2012, 08:33 PM
Holy shit. Forgot tomorrow was the deadline.

Should make for an interesting day...

Bewbies
03-04-2012, 08:36 PM
This place will explode if we get news of a Bowe signing and a Carr tag.

KCrockaholic
03-04-2012, 08:36 PM
Can't imagine how pissed everyone would be if the time passed, and we still didn't franchise anybody. It would be full on anarchy.

CoMoChief
03-04-2012, 08:40 PM
says nothing about Peyton Manning.........this thread sucks

O.city
03-04-2012, 08:41 PM
If we don't tag either of them, is that good or bad?

Mr. Laz
03-04-2012, 08:49 PM
This place will explode if we get news of a Bowe signing and a Carr tag.sign Bowe and use the non-exclusive tag on Carr. It saves cap room and it lets Carr do the work of talking with other teams.

If we don't tag either of them, is that good or bad?neither ... it's potentially bad but just because we don't tag them doesn't mean they are gone. It also doesn't say anything about any replacements we might sign.

BossChief
03-04-2012, 08:51 PM
That would be punishable by death.

threebag02
03-04-2012, 09:04 PM
This place will explode if we get news of a Bowe signing and a Carr tag.

Please be this.

Mojo Jojo
03-04-2012, 09:14 PM
If you sign Bowe it will be at least the 9.4 per year and maybe more...add in a tag price of 10.6 for Carr that is 20 Million for next year for those two. Add in 6 to 7 Million for Routt(going off memory...may be wrong) that is 26 to 27 million for three players. Goodbye to trying to sign a legit QB.

Mr. Laz
03-04-2012, 09:15 PM
Goodbye to trying to sign a legit QB.
oh bull ...

T-post Tom
03-04-2012, 09:21 PM
If you sign Bowe it will be at least the 9.4 per year and maybe more...add in a tag price of 10.6 for Carr that is 20 Million for next year for those two. Add in 6 to 7 Million for Routt(going off memory...may be wrong) that is 26 to 27 million for three players. Goodbye to trying to sign a legit QB.

Not sure about your numbers there. If Bowe gets signed to a long term deal, he could easily be under $9.4. Especially if it's a big signing bonus. And Carr could go the same way with a long term deal.

T-post Tom
03-04-2012, 09:22 PM
says nothing about Peyton Manning.........this thread sucks

Reverse karma to bring Manning here. Got it covered. shhhhhhhhhhhhh...:)

RustShack
03-04-2012, 09:26 PM
If you sign Bowe it will be at least the 9.4 per year and maybe more...add in a tag price of 10.6 for Carr that is 20 Million for next year for those two. Add in 6 to 7 Million for Routt(going off memory...may be wrong) that is 26 to 27 million for three players. Goodbye to trying to sign a legit QB.

Lol what?

RINGLEADER
03-04-2012, 09:44 PM
If Bowe signs then our chances of trading with the Rams go through the roof.

whoman69
03-04-2012, 11:08 PM
Why did we ever tag Dan Williams?

Bowser
03-04-2012, 11:12 PM
If you sign Bowe it will be at least the 9.4 per year and maybe more...add in a tag price of 10.6 for Carr that is 20 Million for next year for those two. Add in 6 to 7 Million for Routt(going off memory...may be wrong) that is 26 to 27 million for three players. Goodbye to trying to sign a legit QB.

I'm glad you're not the capologist for the Chiefs.

Actually, are you Scott Pioli? Your post is heavily laden with Pioli's "it's not about cap space available, but cap cash available" line of thinking.

Bowser
03-04-2012, 11:12 PM
Why did we ever tag Dan Williams?

Carl lost a bet. No other explanation.

What's more crazy is that we gave him huge money after he sat out an entire year.

kcchiefsus
03-05-2012, 05:39 AM
If you sign Bowe it will be at least the 9.4 per year and maybe more...add in a tag price of 10.6 for Carr that is 20 Million for next year for those two. Add in 6 to 7 Million for Routt(going off memory...may be wrong) that is 26 to 27 million for three players. Goodbye to trying to sign a legit QB.

You have no clue how the salary cap works or how teams are able to structure contracts. We are constantly hearing how a team like the Cowboys are expected to be big players in free agency yet they only have a fraction of the salary cap room that we so. We have more than enough room to sign whoever we want.

BoneKrusher
03-05-2012, 06:09 AM
i was hoping the Chiefs resign Bowe and tag Carr.

Carr is better than Flowers IMO.

InChiefsHell
03-05-2012, 06:09 AM
Also, it doesn't mean we can't cut someone to make more room on the cap, does it? I'm looking at you, Cassell...

Tuckdaddy
03-05-2012, 06:21 AM
Bowe will want a shitload of cash in a long term deal and it will be tough to get him to sign with our current QB at the helm. Matt is holding this team back in alot of ways. OC is crap becasue of him as well.

BoneKrusher
03-05-2012, 06:24 AM
Bowe will want a shitload of cash to play with Matt another year. Long term deal will be tough unless we get a decent QB.
i'd say you're right.
if i were Bowe i'd get the hell outta Dodge if Cassel's gonna be the starter.

Tuckdaddy
03-05-2012, 06:27 AM
Why did we ever tag Dan Williams?

He was bad ass for a year and then he faked injuries for a season after he got paid. DV asked him if he wanted to be here and he no. So they cut him.

He looked worthy of the TAG.

DaKCMan AP
03-05-2012, 06:46 AM
If you sign Bowe it will be at least the 9.4 per year and maybe more...add in a tag price of 10.6 for Carr that is 20 Million for next year for those two. Add in 6 to 7 Million for Routt(going off memory...may be wrong) that is 26 to 27 million for three players. Goodbye to trying to sign a legit QB.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_w6EJcHb3Eow/TGp4fzxiB4I/AAAAAAAAAJE/iyaOkiKK8j4/s1600/Huh.jpg

Chiefnj2
03-05-2012, 07:08 AM
Why did we ever tag Dan Williams?

His first year with KC he put up 10 1/2 sacks in 6 starts.

He was the original Albert Haynesworth. A guy that could play well IF he wanted to. Sadly, he didn't want to most of the time.

InChiefsHell
03-05-2012, 07:08 AM
I don't even remember the guy at all...

Setsuna
03-05-2012, 07:42 AM
Well, it's today. Any news on the homefront?

Micjones
03-05-2012, 07:42 AM
I only want Carr tagged if they plan to retain him long-term or trade him.
Just retaining his services for another year is pointless.

Hope they get Bowe inked to a new deal.

Mr. Laz
03-05-2012, 07:45 AM
Bowe will want a shitload of cash in a long term deal and it will be tough to get him to sign with our current QB at the helm. Matt is holding this team back in alot of ways. OC is crap becasue of him as well.you don't know this

all completely made-up bullshit

Chiefnj2
03-05-2012, 07:59 AM
you don't know this

all completely made-up bullshit

Exactly. Bowe put up 15 TDs 2 years ago. I'm sure he was unhappy with that.

Do people really think that if Bowe goes to another team he's going to eclipse that, or put up 1,500+ receiving yards?

DaKCMan AP
03-05-2012, 08:14 AM
Stevie Johnson just signed a 5yr extension with Buffalo. $36.25 million with $19.5 mil guaranteed and $24 mil in the first 3 yrs.

Bowe > Stevie but it's something to compare a deal to.

Sofa King
03-05-2012, 08:17 AM
Stevie Johnson just signed a 5yr extension with Buffalo. $36.25 million with $19.5 mil guaranteed and $24 mil in the first 3 yrs.

Bowe > Stevie but it's something to compare a deal to.

Well at least Buffalo didn't overpay him. I'd say they got that contract about right.

HemiEd
03-05-2012, 08:19 AM
One of Carl's biggest fuckups was not putting John Tait on that franchise tag list, instead of being cute with the "transition" tag. The Bears constructed a deal impossible for the Chiefs to match.

Tuckdaddy
03-05-2012, 08:23 AM
you don't know this

all completely made-up bullshit

I know this. Bowe is in his prime and if you were him would you want to have Matt as your QB? Does Bowe think Matt can help him get a ring? I doubt he thinks that much of Matt as a player. If we had a good QB he probably would have signed already.

As for OC it's the same. An accomplished winner doesn't want to go out there and take a chance that his rep will be ruined by a bum.

All of this is very logical and not just BS.

-King-
03-05-2012, 08:40 AM
A deal has to be close for them to sit this long on the franchise tag right?
Posted via Mobile Device

htismaqe
03-05-2012, 08:43 AM
A deal has to be close for them to sit this long on the franchise tag right?
Posted via Mobile Device

Just thinking about it logically, they have to be close enough to a deal that waiting this long is worth it.

If they were THAT far apart, they would just tag him and be done with it, I would think.

Mr_Tomahawk
03-05-2012, 08:49 AM
Just thinking about it logically, they have to be close enough to a deal that waiting this long is worth it.

If they were THAT far apart, they would just tag him and be done with it, I would think.

My money is still on "he gets tagged."

O.city
03-05-2012, 08:51 AM
With it coming down to the wire like this, I'm leaning more towards him being signed. If they are that far apart, tag him last week and be done iwht it.

Mr. Laz
03-05-2012, 08:59 AM
A deal has to be close for them to sit this long on the franchise tag right?
Posted via Mobile Device
not if the Chiefs are letting Bowe and Carr go because they are planning on signing Manning and Wayne.

:shrug:

Switching Bowe to Wayne to help sign Manning
Swithing Carr to Routt for money to sign Manning


just a thought

O.city
03-05-2012, 09:00 AM
I wouldn't think that would be the case Laz, as much as they have stressed keeping talent in house.


It's possible tho.

Mr. Laz
03-05-2012, 09:01 AM
I know this. Bowe is in his prime and if you were him would you want to have Matt as your QB? Does Bowe think Matt can help him get a ring? I doubt he thinks that much of Matt as a player. If we had a good QB he probably would have signed already.

As for OC it's the same. An accomplished winner doesn't want to go out there and take a chance that his rep will be ruined by a bum.

All of this is very logical and not just BS.
you are projecting your feelings about Cassel into everything.

we have NO IDEA

all this "no OC is coming here because of Cassel" is utter bullshit imo

Mr. Laz
03-05-2012, 09:02 AM
I wouldn't think that would be the case Laz, as much as they have stressed keeping talent in house.


It's possible tho.
you're right, it was just a thought

but apparently Manning did say he hoped Wayne could move with him

switching from Carr to Routt did save several million in cap room ... maybe a shitload if Carr was asking for Revis money


:hmmm:

Sofa King
03-05-2012, 09:10 AM
Bowe has been signed for a week, they just refuse to tell anyone.

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-05-2012, 09:10 AM
You don't want a tag for Carr






Whether you agree with their decision or you don't, the Chiefs made their choice on Brandon Carr the minute they signed Stanford Routt. But I'm still getting questions from fans wondering whether the Chiefs might make Carr their franchise player if they can get Dwayne Bowe signed by this afternoon.

Anything is possible, but that move wouldn't make any sense. The Chiefs have a lot of money tied up in their cornerbacks already. Flowers has a cap number of $8 million. Routt is somewhere north of $6 million. So now they're going to chew up another $10.6 million to franchise Carr?

Here's the thing about having a lot of cap room tied up in cornerbacks: Opposing offenses can dictate how much some of them can play. If the offense sees the strength of an opposing defense is in its cornerbacks, it can guarantee only two of them play by using plenty of two-back or two-tight end formations. And at these prices, Flowers, Routt or Carr would be making too much for the Chiefs to have them on their bench for much of a game

The Chiefs recently had $37 million of cap room, but that was before they signed Routt. Bowe would cost more than $10 million against the cap on a multi-year deal. Carr would cost $10.6 million.

Suddenly, there's not much left for a quarterback and other offensive player not to mention draft picks.

So while I respect Carr as a player as much as anyone, Chiefs fans need to understand he's more valuable now to some other NFL team than he is to the Chiefs. The chances of him returning, whether Bowe is the franchise player or not, are not good.

And if it somehow happens the Chiefs make Carr their franchise player, you should be unhappy because the Chiefs wouldn't be using very good salary cap management.

Read more here: http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/1972#storylink=cpy

Guru
03-05-2012, 10:20 AM
You don't want a tag for Carr






Whether you agree with their decision or you don't, the Chiefs made their choice on Brandon Carr the minute they signed Stanford Routt. But I'm still getting questions from fans wondering whether the Chiefs might make Carr their franchise player if they can get Dwayne Bowe signed by this afternoon.

Anything is possible, but that move wouldn't make any sense. The Chiefs have a lot of money tied up in their cornerbacks already. Flowers has a cap number of $8 million. Routt is somewhere north of $6 million. So now they're going to chew up another $10.6 million to franchise Carr?

Here's the thing about having a lot of cap room tied up in cornerbacks: Opposing offenses can dictate how much some of them can play. If the offense sees the strength of an opposing defense is in its cornerbacks, it can guarantee only two of them play by using plenty of two-back or two-tight end formations. And at these prices, Flowers, Routt or Carr would be making too much for the Chiefs to have them on their bench for much of a game

The Chiefs recently had $37 million of cap room, but that was before they signed Routt. Bowe would cost more than $10 million against the cap on a multi-year deal. Carr would cost $10.6 million.

Suddenly, there's not much left for a quarterback and other offensive player not to mention draft picks.

So while I respect Carr as a player as much as anyone, Chiefs fans need to understand he's more valuable now to some other NFL team than he is to the Chiefs. The chances of him returning, whether Bowe is the franchise player or not, are not good.

And if it somehow happens the Chiefs make Carr their franchise player, you should be unhappy because the Chiefs wouldn't be using very good salary cap management.

Read more here: http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/1972#storylink=cpy
R

whoman69
03-05-2012, 10:32 AM
I can see Bowe not wanting to sign here and hitch his wagon to Cassel. That said if we are going to recruit a better option, we'll need Bowe. Best option, sign Bowe, franchise Carr. Not believing the low ball cap numbers Pioli put out.

DaKCMan AP
03-05-2012, 11:32 AM
I think too many people overestimate the importance of Bowe's opinion of Cassel. The #1 factor for Bowe is likely $$. If KC pays him what he wants or thinks he's worth, he'll sign. Even if they trot out Eric Crouch at QB.

DBOSHO
03-05-2012, 11:41 AM
@getnickwright: Expect to hear the #Chiefs announce the tagging of Dwayne Bowe here pretty soon.

jd1020
03-05-2012, 11:42 AM
@getnickwright: Expect to hear the #Chiefs announce the tagging of Dwayne Bowe here pretty soon.

No. ****ing. shit.

Mr_Tomahawk
03-05-2012, 11:42 AM
@getnickwright: Expect to hear the #Chiefs announce the tagging of Dwayne Bowe here pretty soon.

Genius.

DBOSHO
03-05-2012, 11:46 AM
Dont shoot the reposter

Rausch
03-05-2012, 11:49 AM
Bowe isn't a top 5 WR and Carr isn't a top 5 CB.

I understand there's some chess and checkers going on here but given the choice I'd let Bowe walk over Carr.

jd1020
03-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Bowe isn't a top 5 WR and Carr isn't a top 5 CB.

I understand there's some chess and checkers going on here but given the choice I'd let Bowe walk over Carr.

Before we signed Routt, I would have agreed.

Now, its just dumb to tag Carr over Bowe.

Micjones
03-05-2012, 11:53 AM
I think too many people overestimate the importance of Bowe's opinion of Cassel. The #1 factor for Bowe is likely $$. If KC pays him what he wants or thinks he's worth, he'll sign. Even if they trot out Eric Crouch at QB.

I tend to agree.
It's not like he hasn't posted big numbers, with mediocre QB's at the helm, in the past.

Micjones
03-05-2012, 11:54 AM
Before we signed Routt, I would have agreed.

Now, its just dumb to tag Carr over Bowe.

It's not if you plan to tag then trade Carr.

jd1020
03-05-2012, 11:55 AM
It's not if you plan to tag then trade Carr.

What are you trading him for?

You tag a player you don't intend to keep and lose the player you could have used who is equally worthy of the tag, maybe more so... Dumb.

Rausch
03-05-2012, 11:55 AM
Before we signed Routt, I would have agreed.

Now, its just dumb to tag Carr over Bowe.

Routt is an over-rated POS.

Signing him at all is a mistake.

He's fucking Carlton Grey...

jd1020
03-05-2012, 11:57 AM
Routt is an over-rated POS.

Signing him at all is a mistake.

He's ****ing Carlton Grey...

Routt was a true #1 corner.

Lets see how Carr does against #1 receivers 100% of the time when he signs with the Cowboys.

When Routt was playing the same role Carr was in KC he was the #2 coverage corner in the league.

Rausch
03-05-2012, 11:59 AM
When Routt was playing the same role Carr was in KC he was the #2 coverage corner in the league.

No, he wasn't.

jd1020
03-05-2012, 12:02 PM
No, he wasn't.

Pretty sure he was.

Even this last year he ranked better as a coverage corner than Carr, according to PFF.

Direckshun
03-05-2012, 12:04 PM
Anybody else thinking the lack of a tag at this point means the Chiefs are trying really, really hard to get him under contract?

Thig Lyfe
03-05-2012, 12:04 PM
Could we possibly tag Peyton Manning???

zonachief
03-05-2012, 12:39 PM
Anybody else thinking the lack of a tag at this point means the Chiefs are trying really, really hard to get him under contract?

Or we are letting bowe and Carr walk....



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jd1020
03-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Or we are letting bowe and Carr walk....



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Letting Carr walk because we already have Routt and letting Bowe walk so we can sign the package deal of Manning and Wayne!!!

zonachief
03-05-2012, 12:44 PM
Letting Carr walk because we already have Routt and letting Bowe walk so we can sign the package deal of Manning and Wayne!!!

Bowe >>>>> Wayne.

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jd1020
03-05-2012, 12:46 PM
Bowe >>>>> Wayne.

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Manning + Wayne >>>>>>>>>>> Cassel + Bowe.

BigChiefFan
03-05-2012, 12:47 PM
Could we possibly tag Peyton Manning???:D