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View Full Version : Chiefs Chiefs interested in Soliai and Manning could hold up FA in general


Carlota69
03-13-2012, 10:08 AM
Soliai has suitors, but Peyton chase could be a factor
Posted by Mike Florio on March 13, 2012, 10:56 AM EDT

APMike Freeman of CBSSports.com raised an interesting point earlier today on Twitter.

“When does the Manning backlash begin?“

The answer could be “very soon,” when fans and media begin to realize that Peyton’s indecision could keep teams on the sidelines in free agency.

Multiple league sources have pointed out already that some teams will wait to see whether they land Peyton before opening the change purse for other players. One guy caught in that dilemma, we’re told, is Dolphins nose tackle Paul Soliai.

Soliai played under the franchise tag in 2011, and he’ll hit the market at 4:00 p.m. ET on Tuesday. A league source tells PFT that the Broncos, Dolphins, Chiefs, Colts, 49ers, Patriots, and Falcons are interested.

But three of those teams (Denver, Miami, San Fran) reportedly are (or, at to the Niners, may be) in the Peyton chase. And so, while other teams that aren’t maneuvering for Manning are interested in Soliai, it’s hard to max out the market if half of the interested teams are twiddling their thumbs for Peyton.

The Broncos have the cap space to allow them to start spending while waiting for Peyton. Still, they need to know how to best budget their money, especially if Peyton will be bringing Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark and Jeff Saturday.

Bottom line? While free agency begins in five hours, it may not really get going until Peyton picks a team.

lcarus
03-13-2012, 10:09 AM
If they want him, just sign him. Peyton isn't coming.

Micjones
03-13-2012, 10:10 AM
Factor in what you're planning to offer Manning (if we're still in the race) and proceed with your other signings.

Carlota69
03-13-2012, 10:11 AM
If they want him, just sign him. Peyton isn't coming.

Yep, and it may make him look at us closer with him aboard...

BTW, jsut saw this in the Broncos Mega thread--eat a bucket of dicks repost police.:p

suds79
03-13-2012, 10:12 AM
If they want him, just sign him. Peyton isn't coming.

This.

If anything we have an advantage for once. Make your moves now. If other teams want to twiddle their thumbs waiting on Manning, fine. Get guys now.

Manning is a non factor for us since he's not coming.

BigChiefFan
03-13-2012, 10:13 AM
Factor in what you're planning to offer Manning (if we're still in the race) and proceed with your other signings.

Yep. Shouldn't be too hard to allot the money for Manning and have a good idea, what's left over.

tooge
03-13-2012, 10:14 AM
this is exactly what I was talking about. This is why Manning is a bad idea. The chiefs have the money to get a guy like Soliai and still have money for Winston or Grubbs, Tolbert, etc. Please Clark, spend some money on these free agents.

chiefzilla1501
03-13-2012, 10:18 AM
this is exactly what I was talking about. This is why Manning is a bad idea. The chiefs have the money to get a guy like Soliai and still have money for Winston or Grubbs, Tolbert, etc. Please Clark, spend some money on these free agents.

So the strategy is to surround bad qbs with an elite supporting cast.

That's like giving kirstie alley expensive beauty lessons.

Cave Johnson
03-13-2012, 10:19 AM
So it'll be Manning's fault when we inevitably fail to sign Soliai?

The excuses from this organization get worse and worse.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 10:21 AM
This.

If anything we have an advantage for once. Make your moves now. If other teams want to twiddle their thumbs waiting on Manning, fine. Get guys now.

Manning is a non factor for us since he's not coming.

This.

GODAMMIT SCOTT, THIS!!!

prhom
03-13-2012, 10:21 AM
This.

If anything we have an advantage for once. Make your moves now. If other teams want to twiddle their thumbs waiting on Manning, fine. Get guys now.

Manning is a non factor for us since he's not coming.

I was going to post the same thing. Let those other teams fight over Manning. I can live with Manning not liking us, but if we lose two guys we wanted to Denver I'll be a little disappointed.

tooge
03-13-2012, 10:21 AM
So the strategy is to surround bad qbs with an elite supporting cast.

That's like giving kirstie alley expensive beauty lessons.

No, but what else can they do? RGIII isn't an option. Manning isn't an option. Better continue to move the team in the right direction and either hope a mediocre qb can get us going until a better option is available.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 10:22 AM
So the strategy is to surround bad qbs with an elite supporting cast.

That's like giving kirstie alley expensive beauty lessons.

Where are we gonna get a good QB?

We're stuck with Cassel, period. Should we just throw in the towel?

How about let's just move the team to LA, stop being fans, and move on with our lives.

(Wow, that's actually a GREAT idea...)

redhed
03-13-2012, 10:24 AM
More gas for the fire...

QUOTE: (Yahoo's Michael Silver, re: Top teams in PM sweepstakes)

10. Kansas City Chiefs: New coach Romeo Crennel caused a stir at the combine by saying he “would be crazy not to consider” signing Manning were the quarterback to become available, which kind of sounded like tampering. In my opinion, Manning would be crazy to consider the Chiefs. Yeah, they have a big-time halfback in Jamaal Charles (coming off a torn ACL), a potential star in talented wideout Dwayne Bowe and some good players on defense, but there are plenty of reasons for Manning not to come to K.C. The first is the presence of newly hired offensive coordinator Brian Daboll – ask the Browns’ Colt McCoy how he thinks Manning might enjoy playing for such a coach. Another is general manager Scott Pioli, whose control-freak tendencies likely wouldn’t allow for a quarterback who desires near autonomy. (If nothing else Manning, were he to sign with the Chiefs, should keep his cell-phone number a secret.) I’m sure Manning is also thrilled that Pioli decided to waive veteran offensive lineman Brian Waters before the 2011 season. Waters jumped to the Patriots and made the Pro Bowl blocking for Tom Brady. Bottom line: I don’t see Manning in a Chiefs uniform, at all.

Dayze
03-13-2012, 10:26 AM
More gas for the fire...

QUOTE: (Yahoo's Michael Silver, re: Top teams in PM sweepstakes)

10. Kansas City Chiefs: New coach Romeo Crennel caused a stir at the combine by saying he “would be crazy not to consider” signing Manning were the quarterback to become available, which kind of sounded like tampering. In my opinion, Manning would be crazy to consider the Chiefs. Yeah, they have a big-time halfback in Jamaal Charles (coming off a torn ACL), a potential star in talented wideout Dwayne Bowe and some good players on The first is the presence of newly hired offensive coordinator Brian Daboll – ask tdefense, but there are plenty of reasons for Manning not to come to K.C. he Browns’ Colt McCoy how he thinks Manning might enjoy playing for such a coach. Another is general manager Scott Pioli, whose control-freak tendencies likely wouldn’t allow for a quarterback who desires near autonomy. (If nothing else Manning, were he to sign with the Chiefs, should keep his cell-phone number a secret.) I’m sure Manning is also thrilled that Pioli decided to waive veteran offensive lineman Brian Waters before the 2011 season. Waters jumped to the Patriots and made the Pro Bowl blocking for Tom Brady. Bottom line: I don’t see Manning in a Chiefs uniform, at all.

fail

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 10:29 AM
Seriously......Manning isn't coming here. Go get Soliai and Winston right fucking now.

Mr_Tomahawk
03-13-2012, 10:30 AM
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/3/13/2867579/paul-soliai-free-agent-kansas-city-chiefs

Free Agent Paul Soliai Reportedly Drawing Interest From Chiefs


Miami Dolphins defensive tackle Paul Soliai is a guy we've talked about around here a few times, including this morning in my post about the free agents the Kansas City Chiefs should pursue.

It appears the Chiefs feel the same way. Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk reports the Chiefs are among a number of teams that have interest in Soliai including his soon-to-be-former team Miami Dolphins as well as the Denver Broncos, Indianapolis Colts, San Francisco 49ers, New England Patriots and Atlanta Falcons.

This smells like an agent-driven report to me so keep that in mind. But Soliai does seem to make a lot of sense for the Chiefs. One of the positions we've been focusing on with the Chiefs No. 11 pick in the 2012 NFL draft is nose tackle and adding Soliai would solve that problem. He's young (28), big (6'4" and 355 pounds) and, on the surface, makes sense with the Chiefs.

Check out this post from Pro Football Talk where they're wondering if the Peyton Manning sweepstakes will affect Soliai's free agency bid.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 10:32 AM
So the strategy is to surround bad qbs with an elite supporting cast.

That's like giving kirstie alley expensive beauty lessons.

I hate to go all truefan here, but take a look at this team with a couple of additions and easy draft picks:

Sign Soliai
Sign Winston
Sign Orton
Draft DeCastro (Richardson is gone with the RGIII deal, IMO)

We would have the best offensive line in football and it wouldn't even be that close. We would have a QB that has proven capable of throwing for 3,500+ yards when given time and a supporting cast. Good lord - how do you stop us from running right with DeCastro and Winston over there? And we're not exactly dogmeat with Albert and Asomoah on the other side. Especially when you have to respect Moeaki in the seam, Baldwin deep and Bowe over the middle...y'know, since we have a real QB at that point.

We would have an extremely young defense with literally not a single real hole, though you'd like to see a more dynamic threat at the DEs, that's just not how Romeo plays.

Those 4 moves are extremely doable and would make us a legitimate contender. Use a 2nd rounder on David Wilson, a 3rd on Broyles, a 4th on a TE...

We'd be ready to rock.

That team can win a championship. It's not sexy, it's not flashy, but it's incredibly doable.

Omaha
03-13-2012, 10:33 AM
If they were to sign Soliai, Winston, and cut Cassel, it might distract me somewhat from the Manning debacle.

Chocolate Hog
03-13-2012, 10:35 AM
If Denver gets Manning and Soliali i'll cry.

Omaha
03-13-2012, 10:35 AM
I hate to go all truefan here, but take a look at this team with a couple of additions and easy draft picks:

Sign Soliai
Sign Winston
Sign Orton
Draft DeCastro (Richardson is gone with the RGIII deal, IMO)

We would have the best offensive line in football and it wouldn't even be that close. We would have a QB that has proven capable of throwing for 3,500+ yards when given time and a supporting cast. Good lord - how do you stop us from running right with DeCastro and Winston over there? And we're not exactly dogmeat with Albert and Asomoah on the other side. Especially when you have to respect Moeaki in the seam, Baldwin deep and Bowe over the middle...y'know, since we have a real QB at that point.

We would have an extremely young defense with literally not a single real hole, though you'd like to see a more dynamic threat at the DEs, that's just not how Romeo plays.

Those 4 moves are extremely doable and would make us a legitimate contender. Use a 2nd rounder on David Wilson, a 3rd on Broyles, a 4th on a TE...

We'd be ready to rock.

That team can win a championship. It's not sexy, it's not flashy, but it's incredibly doable.

This post is so good, it's worthy of my rep... and that's the best rep of all.

bevischief
03-13-2012, 10:36 AM
Get Eric Winston and Paul Soliai in here now and don't wait. Screw Manning at this point.

Detoxing
03-13-2012, 10:37 AM
I hate to go all truefan here, but take a look at this team with a couple of additions and easy draft picks:

Sign Soliai
Sign Winston
Sign Orton
Draft DeCastro (Richardson is gone with the RGIII deal, IMO)

We would have the best offensive line in football and it wouldn't even be that close. We would have a QB that has proven capable of throwing for 3,500+ yards when given time and a supporting cast. Good lord - how do you stop us from running right with DeCastro and Winston over there? And we're not exactly dogmeat with Albert and Asomoah on the other side. Especially when you have to respect Moeaki in the seam, Baldwin deep and Bowe over the middle...y'know, since we have a real QB at that point.

We would have an extremely young defense with literally not a single real hole, though you'd like to see a more dynamic threat at the DEs, that's just not how Romeo plays.

Those 4 moves are extremely doable and would make us a legitimate contender. Use a 2nd rounder on David Wilson, a 3rd on Broyles, a 4th on a TE...

We'd be ready to rock.

That team can win a championship. It's not sexy, it's not flashy, but it's incredibly doable.

ahhhhh


DJ has gone all truefan on us!

But yeah, i see what you're saying. Though I'd keep Asomoah at RG though just for continuity.

But other than that, yeah, I'll buy it.

Micjones
03-13-2012, 10:37 AM
I hate to go all truefan here, but take a look at this team with a couple of additions and easy draft picks:

Sign Soliai
Sign Winston
Sign Orton
Draft DeCastro (Richardson is gone with the RGIII deal, IMO)

I like the sound of that.

Add in a #2 RB (Addai, BJGE) and we're golden.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 10:39 AM
I like the sound of that.

Add in a #2 RB (Addai, BJGE) and we're golden.

David Wilson is your #2 RB and potentially another Jamaal. Kid can play.

Detoxing
03-13-2012, 10:41 AM
I like the sound of that.

Add in a #2 RB (Addai, BJGE) and we're golden.

Nah. Much rather draft a young speedy back rather than sign another broke dick. We don't need Thomas Jones Part II

Micjones
03-13-2012, 10:41 AM
David Wilson is your #2 RB and potentially another Jamaal. Kid can play.

He's probably going to go in the late part of Round 1.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 10:41 AM
ahhhhh


DJ has gone all truefan on us!

But yeah, i see what you're saying. Though I'd keep Asomoah at RG though just for continuity.

But other than that, yeah, I'll buy it.

Asomoah at RG might be even better, to tell you the truth.

DeCastro is a more rounded guard than Asomoah and can help cover Albert if he struggles against elite rushers. Winston is going to be a better run-blocker than Albert, so putting the overall stronger guard in DeCastro over by Albert may help 'balance' our strength along the line.

I put Asomoah at LG just because I've always planned on having him replace Waters over there long-term, but in all reality, DeCastro at LG and Asomoah at RG probably gives us a slightly stronger line on balance.

Fritz88
03-13-2012, 10:41 AM
I hate to go all truefan here, but take a look at this team with a couple of additions and easy draft picks:

Sign Soliai
Sign Winston
Sign Orton
Draft DeCastro (Richardson is gone with the RGIII deal, IMO)

We would have the best offensive line in football and it wouldn't even be that close. We would have a QB that has proven capable of throwing for 3,500+ yards when given time and a supporting cast. Good lord - how do you stop us from running right with DeCastro and Winston over there? And we're not exactly dogmeat with Albert and Asomoah on the other side. Especially when you have to respect Moeaki in the seam, Baldwin deep and Bowe over the middle...y'know, since we have a real QB at that point.

We would have an extremely young defense with literally not a single real hole, though you'd like to see a more dynamic threat at the DEs, that's just not how Romeo plays.

Those 4 moves are extremely doable and would make us a legitimate contender. Use a 2nd rounder on David Wilson, a 3rd on Broyles, a 4th on a TE...

We'd be ready to rock.

That team can win a championship. It's not sexy, it's not flashy, but it's incredibly doable.

I just exploded in my pants.
Posted via Mobile Device

BigCatDaddy
03-13-2012, 10:43 AM
I hate to go all truefan here, but take a look at this team with a couple of additions and easy draft picks:

Sign Soliai
Sign Winston
Sign Orton
Draft DeCastro (Richardson is gone with the RGIII deal, IMO)

We would have the best offensive line in football and it wouldn't even be that close. We would have a QB that has proven capable of throwing for 3,500+ yards when given time and a supporting cast. Good lord - how do you stop us from running right with DeCastro and Winston over there? And we're not exactly dogmeat with Albert and Asomoah on the other side. Especially when you have to respect Moeaki in the seam, Baldwin deep and Bowe over the middle...y'know, since we have a real QB at that point.

We would have an extremely young defense with literally not a single real hole, though you'd like to see a more dynamic threat at the DEs, that's just not how Romeo plays.

Those 4 moves are extremely doable and would make us a legitimate contender. Use a 2nd rounder on David Wilson, a 3rd on Broyles, a 4th on a TE...

We'd be ready to rock.

That team can win a championship. It's not sexy, it's not flashy, but it's incredibly doable.

Saccopoop

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 10:44 AM
He's probably going to go in the late part of Round 1.

Hmmm....that sucks. I had gotten used to see him behind Miller (foolishly, really).

Miller with the #2 is fine as well; he's just not as shifty as Wilson. He's more of a Michael Bennett type; see edge, run at edge, hope he beats you to it. He's not as fluid and won't have quite the upside.

But in all honesty, with that line in front of him, beating teams to the edge is probably going to be a pretty common occurrence.

Micjones
03-13-2012, 10:44 AM
Nah. Much rather draft a young speedy back rather than sign another broke dick. We don't need Thomas Jones Part II

Thomas Jones was a good #2 in his first year here.
We don't need an all-world back in that role.
Just someone who can pick up a blitz, catch the ball out of the backfield and help in short-yard situations. That said, I'm not opposed to drafting a RB.

Chocolate Hog
03-13-2012, 10:46 AM
DJ made me hate the Chiefs a little less today.

tooge
03-13-2012, 10:46 AM
I hate to go all truefan here, but take a look at this team with a couple of additions and easy draft picks:

Sign Soliai
Sign Winston
Sign Orton
Draft DeCastro (Richardson is gone with the RGIII deal, IMO)

We would have the best offensive line in football and it wouldn't even be that close. We would have a QB that has proven capable of throwing for 3,500+ yards when given time and a supporting cast. Good lord - how do you stop us from running right with DeCastro and Winston over there? And we're not exactly dogmeat with Albert and Asomoah on the other side. Especially when you have to respect Moeaki in the seam, Baldwin deep and Bowe over the middle...y'know, since we have a real QB at that point.

We would have an extremely young defense with literally not a single real hole, though you'd like to see a more dynamic threat at the DEs, that's just not how Romeo plays.

Those 4 moves are extremely doable and would make us a legitimate contender. Use a 2nd rounder on David Wilson, a 3rd on Broyles, a 4th on a TE...

We'd be ready to rock.

That team can win a championship. It's not sexy, it's not flashy, but it's incredibly doable.

If this happened, Manning can take his long ass broke neck to Dungver and we'd still kick their asses.

tooge
03-13-2012, 10:48 AM
Hmmm....that sucks. I had gotten used to see him behind Miller (foolishly, really).

Miller with the #2 is fine as well; he's just not as shifty as Wilson. He's more of a Michael Bennett type; see edge, run at edge, hope he beats you to it. He's not as fluid and won't have quite the upside.

But in all honesty, with that line in front of him, beating teams to the edge is probably going to be a pretty common occurrence.

What about Michael Bush? Big, Physical, not too many miles on him, what, in his fourth year? Nice one two three punch with JC, Dex, and Bush.

Viper400
03-13-2012, 10:52 AM
The offense with Cassel will struggle again. Will have to rely on the running game. Sign Winston and Nicks/Grubbs. Maybe Dallas Clark.

With no decent FA QB's out there, only other option is to bolster the D. Sign Soliai.

Strongside
03-13-2012, 10:54 AM
The more I read here, the more I don't give a flying fuck that we're not getting Peyton Manning.

Dayze
03-13-2012, 10:55 AM
The offense with Cassel will struggle again. Will have to rely on the running game. Sign Winston and Nicks/Grubbs. Maybe Dallas Clark.

With no decent FA QB's out there, only other option is to bolster the D. Sign Soliai.

he's broken; just like Moeaki

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 11:07 AM
I hate to go all truefan here, but take a look at this team with a couple of additions and easy draft picks:

Sign Soliai
Sign Winston
Sign Orton
Draft DeCastro (Richardson is gone with the RGIII deal, IMO)

We would have the best offensive line in football and it wouldn't even be that close. We would have a QB that has proven capable of throwing for 3,500+ yards when given time and a supporting cast. Good lord - how do you stop us from running right with DeCastro and Winston over there? And we're not exactly dogmeat with Albert and Asomoah on the other side. Especially when you have to respect Moeaki in the seam, Baldwin deep and Bowe over the middle...y'know, since we have a real QB at that point.

We would have an extremely young defense with literally not a single real hole, though you'd like to see a more dynamic threat at the DEs, that's just not how Romeo plays.

Those 4 moves are extremely doable and would make us a legitimate contender. Use a 2nd rounder on David Wilson, a 3rd on Broyles, a 4th on a TE...

We'd be ready to rock.

That team can win a championship. It's not sexy, it's not flashy, but it's incredibly doable.

Winning ugly like you have described above looks more and more like the only way we will ever be able to compete for a championship.
If we continue to improve this team we will continue to win a game or 2 more ever season. Moving us further and further down the draft board.
With the new rookie contract system more teams are willing to draft a QB early in the first or trade up if they have to because the risk is so much lower.
We already seen that it took 2 1st rounders and a 2cd rounder to move up 4 spots. What is it going to take next year if we are setting at 15 or 16?

sedated
03-13-2012, 11:10 AM
I don’t care what we do with the other 21 positions, if our starting QB is Matt Cassel, we aren’t winning a playoff game next season.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:11 AM
Winning ugly like you have described above looks more and more like the only way we will ever be able to compete for a championship.
If we continue to improve this team we will continue to win a game or 2 more ever season. Moving us further and further down the draft board.
With the new rookie contract system more teams are willing to draft a QB early in the first or trade up if they have to because the risk is so much lower.
We already seen that it took 2 1st rounders and a 2cd rounder to move up 4 spots. What is it going to take next year if we are setting at 15 or 16?

We'll never actually compete for a championship if we're forced to "win ugly".

It seems like 9-7 and an occasional playoff win is about all we can hope for.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 11:15 AM
We'll never actually compete for a championship if we're forced to "win ugly".

It seems like 9-7 and an occasional playoff win is about all we can hope for.

Keep saying it if it makes you feel better.

But the Ravens and 49ers were both muffed special teams plays away from beating 2 of the 6 best QBs in the NFL to go to the Super Bowl last year.

It can be done - you just don't have as great a margin for error. With those moves, you don't need one.

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 11:17 AM
We'll never actually compete for a championship if we're forced to "win ugly".

It seems like 9-7 and an occasional playoff win is about all we can hope for.

Yeah if we were to make moves like those that DJ posted we might even go 11-5 with Cassel, like he did in New England. We all know it was because of the supporting cast!!!
Then either get put out in the first round, as usual, or might even get a win which we would all love. But that is as far is it will go with Cassel IMO.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:19 AM
Keep saying it if it makes you feel better.

But the Ravens and 49ers were both muffed special teams plays away from beating 2 of the 6 best QBs in the NFL to go to the Super Bowl last year.

It can be done - you just don't have as great a margin for error. With those moves, you don't need one.

Close only counts in horseshoes and hanggernades.

The Ravens and 49ers were both muffed special teams plays away. Just like the Chiefs in 1995 and how many other dozens of teams over the years?

The 2000 Ravens are an anomaly.

Yes, it can be done. But holding your breath waiting for the 1 in 100000 chance is going to end up with you suffocating, not with the Chiefs ground-pounding their way to a Super Bowl...

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 11:20 AM
Yeah if we were to make moves like those that DJ posted we might even go 11-5 with Cassel, like he did in New England. We all know it was because of the supporting cast!!!
Then either get put out in the first round, as usual, or might even get a win which we would all love. But that is as far is it will go with Cassel IMO.

Cassel would not be the starter with the moves I suggested.

Sofa King
03-13-2012, 11:20 AM
Yeah if we were to make moves like those that DJ posted we might even go 11-5 with Cassel, like he did in New England. We all know it was because of the supporting cast!!!
Then either get put out in the first round, as usual, or might even get a win which we would all love. But that is as far is it will go with Cassel IMO.

If we make all the moves DJ posted, then we wouldn't have Cassel starting anymore....

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:21 AM
Cassel would not be the starter with the moves I suggested.

No, Orton would be. And he's not really an upgrade.

Carlota69
03-13-2012, 11:23 AM
No, Orton would be. And he's not really an upgrade.

Yes he is just for the simple fact that our D would get more rest. That alone is an upgrade.

dirk digler
03-13-2012, 11:24 AM
I hate to go all truefan here, but take a look at this team with a couple of additions and easy draft picks:

Sign Soliai
Sign Winston
Sign Orton
Draft DeCastro (Richardson is gone with the RGIII deal, IMO)

We would have the best offensive line in football and it wouldn't even be that close. We would have a QB that has proven capable of throwing for 3,500+ yards when given time and a supporting cast. Good lord - how do you stop us from running right with DeCastro and Winston over there? And we're not exactly dogmeat with Albert and Asomoah on the other side. Especially when you have to respect Moeaki in the seam, Baldwin deep and Bowe over the middle...y'know, since we have a real QB at that point.

We would have an extremely young defense with literally not a single real hole, though you'd like to see a more dynamic threat at the DEs, that's just not how Romeo plays.

Those 4 moves are extremely doable and would make us a legitimate contender. Use a 2nd rounder on David Wilson, a 3rd on Broyles, a 4th on a TE...

We'd be ready to rock.

That team can win a championship. It's not sexy, it's not flashy, but it's incredibly doable.

I don't know if that could win a championship but if Manning isn't coming to us I would be ok with this. It is better than rolling out Cassel on day one.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 11:25 AM
Close only counts in horseshoes and hanggernades.

The Ravens and 49ers were both muffed special teams plays away. Just like the Chiefs in 1995 and how many other dozens of teams over the years?

The 2000 Ravens are an anomaly.

Yes, it can be done. But holding your breath waiting for the 1 in 100000 chance is going to end up with you suffocating, not with the Chiefs ground-pounding their way to a Super Bowl...

Who's holding their breath here?

For the most part, it only seems to be the QB ideologues that are going to hold their breath and stamp their feet until the Chiefs just conjure a 'franchise QB' from whole !@#$ing cloth.

There isn't one available - there just isn't, not this season. Manning's not coming here, Flynn is just another Cassel, Tannehill is just not a smart pick given the talent available on the board. He may be good in 3 years, but in the next 3 years we can likely find someone just as talented (Tannehill is a 2nd rounder any other season).

Please God, quit repeating yourselves. We all know it's easier to win with a premier QB in this league but you can't just create one - you have to have one available to you. In lieu of same, find someone you can win with and surround them with the best team possible.

Eliminating the QB position, that team would be the best team in the AFC. What else can you ask for? Given the circumstances we find ourselves in, it's possible to construct a Super Bowl contender. I'd say that's a pretty exciting idea.

Or hell, just keep holding your breath and stomping your feet. I'm sure that will fix everything.

The rest of us will actually operate in the realm of reality.

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 11:27 AM
Cassel would not be the starter with the moves I suggested.

I view Orton and Cassel in the same breathe. Orton has always struggled in the red zone. I don't think that Orton will come here since Pioli isn't going to cut Cassel. This will be Cassels last opportunity.

ChiefsCountry
03-13-2012, 11:28 AM
Don't forget we are going to sign Brady Fucking Quinn to take us to the ship.

suds79
03-13-2012, 11:28 AM
Say it with me folks. Tank! :P

Its going to work out okay for Indy.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:29 AM
Yes he is just for the simple fact that our D would get more rest. That alone is an upgrade.

Is the end result going to be more playoff wins? Highly doubtful given his career thus far...

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 11:29 AM
Don't forget we are going to sign Brady Fucking Quinn to take us to the ship.

If that happens.....I'm going to get soooooooo much shit.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2012, 11:29 AM
signing guys and making a splash should help sign Manning imo

you can always 'find' the cap room

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:31 AM
Who's holding their breath here?

For the most part, it only seems to be the QB ideologues that are going to hold their breath and stamp their feet until the Chiefs just conjure a 'franchise QB' from whole !@#$ing cloth.

There isn't one available - there just isn't, not this season. Manning's not coming here, Flynn is just another Cassel, Tannehill is just not a smart pick given the talent available on the board. He may be good in 3 years, but in the next 3 years we can likely find someone just as talented (Tannehill is a 2nd rounder any other season).

Please God, quit repeating yourselves. We all know it's easier to win with a premier QB in this league but you can't just create one - you have to have one available to you. In lieu of same, find someone you can win with and surround them with the best team possible.

Eliminating the QB position, that team would be the best team in the AFC. What else can you ask for? Given the circumstances we find ourselves in, it's possible to construct a Super Bowl contender. I'd say that's a pretty exciting idea.

Or hell, just keep holding your breath and stomping your feet. I'm sure that will fix everything.

The rest of us will actually operate in the realm of reality.

I've already accepted reality.

This team isn't going to win a thing.

I agree with your entire plan all the way up to, but not including, signing Orton.

Orton and Cassel aren't that different. The BIG difference is that Orton is a free agent and it will cost MUCH more to sign him.

If we're going to get Solai and Winston and make all these moves, we're MUCH better off just keeping Cassel and working on the QB position later.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 11:31 AM
I view Orton and Cassel in the same breathe. Orton has always struggled in the red zone. I don't think that Orton will come here since Pioli isn't going to cut Cassel. This will be Cassels last opportunity.

I don't know how anyone could watch the way Orton played last season vs. the way Cassel played last season and see them as the same caliber player.

Orton did basic quarterback things like look of DBs and slide his protection that Cassel never did. He kept plays alive and found his 3rd reads unlike Cassel. He kept drives moving; even the ones that stalled in the red zone (often with a Bowe drop, a Jones stumble or an O'Connell...well whatever the !@#$ O'Connell did); unlike Cassel.

The eye test couldn't have yielded more dissimilar results. He simply plays the position correctly. Sometimes he's too aggressive, but with a defense like the Chiefs will have next season, that's fine; aggressive can be good.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:33 AM
I don't know how anyone could watch the way Orton played last season vs. the way Cassel played last season and see them as the same caliber player.

Orton did basic quarterback things like look of DBs and slide his protection that Cassel never did. He kept plays alive and found his 3rd reads unlike Cassel. He kept drives moving; even the ones that stalled in the red zone (often with a Bowe drop, a Jones stumble or an O'Connell...well whatever the !@#$ O'Connell did); unlike Cassel.

The eye test couldn't have yielded more dissimilar results. He simply plays the position correctly. Sometimes he's too aggressive, but with a defense like the Chiefs will have next season, that's fine; aggressive can be good.

The end result is not more WINS, and that's the only thing that matters.

mcaj22
03-13-2012, 11:33 AM
Orton beat the Packers

something Cassel will never be able to do.

That alone is enough for me.

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 11:34 AM
(Tannehill is a 2nd rounder any other season).

I think you are going to find out that the way QB's are drafted now is going to be way different than how it use to be. The risk now is very low compared to the reward.

Dayze
03-13-2012, 11:35 AM
The end result is not more WINS. Winning home games is the only thing that matters. / Clark

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 11:35 AM
I don't know how anyone could watch the way Orton played last season vs. the way Cassel played last season and see them as the same caliber player.

Orton did basic quarterback things like look of DBs and slide his protection that Cassel never did. He kept plays alive and found his 3rd reads unlike Cassel. He kept drives moving; even the ones that stalled in the red zone (often with a Bowe drop, a Jones stumble or an O'Connell...well whatever the !@#$ O'Connell did); unlike Cassel.

The eye test couldn't have yielded more dissimilar results. He simply plays the position correctly. Sometimes he's too aggressive, but with a defense like the Chiefs will have next season, that's fine; aggressive can be good.

That and he'll have an entire offseason with Bowe, Baldwin and Breaston. He's already shown what he can do with Brandon Lloyd FFS.

Hoover
03-13-2012, 11:35 AM
Manning would bring a lot of excitement, but I think Soliai/Winston/Orton haul would make us just as much favorites in the AFC West as the Broncos will be with Manning. With or without Manning we would still need to be looking under every rock for a QBOTF

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:35 AM
Orton beat the Packers

something Cassel will never be able to do.

That alone is enough for me.

The defense beat the Packers.

They barely averaged 2 TDs a game with Orton. The only thing more pathetic than that is the fact that we, as fans, have been reduced to pinning our hopes on someone like KYLE ORTON.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:36 AM
Manning would bring a lot of excitement, but I think Soliai/Winston/Orton haul would make us just as much favorites in the AFC West as the Broncos will be with Manning. With or without Manning we would still need to be looking under every rock for a QBOTF

It would make us the favorites in the West, but what about the AFC?

I'm kinda tired of trotting out teams like this one...

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 11:38 AM
The end result is not more WINS, and that's the only thing that matters.

I'm sorry - did I miss the way we ended last season?

We were absolutely getting more WINS under Orton last year. If the damn FG unit could block Richard Seymore, he goes undefeated as a starter and somehow gets us into the playoffs.

The WINS came when Orton took over. The offense improved a great deal, hell the defense got better when it didn't have to spend as much time on the field.

You want to play the "winning is the only thing" card - be my guest. This team was a legitimate winner under Kyle Orton; it was not under Matt Cassel.

Hoover
03-13-2012, 11:38 AM
It would make us the favorites in the West, but what about the AFC?

I'm kinda tired of trotting out teams like this one...
As am I, but what can we do about it? We can't force Manning to sign here. We can't get one of the top 2 picks in the draft.

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 11:39 AM
Orton beat the Packers

something Cassel will never be able to do.

That alone is enough for me.

No our Defense beat the Packers. Orton just happened to be the QB in that game.

Hoover
03-13-2012, 11:40 AM
I think an offseason with Orton as the starter would benefit out entire team. We need a guy who can stretch the field, which Matt could never do. This team would rock if we had a 300 yd/game QB. That's Orton.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 11:40 AM
It would make us the favorites in the West, but what about the AFC?

I'm kinda tired of trotting out teams like this one...

So just head to your lab and build us a prototype QB.

What's your plan? You have mine - what's yours? The Redskins and Colts aren't moving their picks. Are you really going to advocate Tannehill? Okay, but you'll probably have to give up a 3rd to move up and grab him; seems like the Dolphins with Sherman may be hard after him.

There are doable steps that can make this team a legitimately excellent team (and yes, I would say possible favorites in the AFC) - how would you do it?

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 11:41 AM
Kyle Orton isn't going to be that QB that puts the team on his back and takes them to the promise land. Orton is that QB that will allow your team to play to its strengths and not fuck you when the game is on the line.

Cassel is neither.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 11:41 AM
No our Defense beat the Packers. Orton just happened to be the QB in that game.

Orton and his 300 yards passing, as well as clutch 3rd down conversions to Breaston as he was going through his reads had nothing to do with keeping the defense fresh or the Packers offense off the field.

Right.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2012, 11:41 AM
Soliai/Winston/Orton

looking like our best option now

Discuss Thrower
03-13-2012, 11:43 AM
Think it's kind of funny that nobody is taking into account the more than likely chance that the team's discipline goes to pot next season with Club Romeo..

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 11:43 AM
Soliai, Winston and Orton in FA allows this team to go ANYWHERE it wants in the draft. Pioli can trade down if the value isn't there. He can stay put and draft DeCastro to shore up the line. Shit....he can even take a flyer and draft an OLB so that we have depth at that position.

KCtotheSB
03-13-2012, 11:44 AM
Well....here's to hoping Orton stays here. God help us all if Cassel is under center Week 1.

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 11:44 AM
The end result is not more WINS, and that's the only thing that matters.

With either QB the end result will be a FEW more wins. And yes it is going to take a lot of luck but we can compete for a championship in this manner. Not going to say we will win one but we can compete.

58-4ever
03-13-2012, 11:45 AM
So it'll be Manning's fault when we inevitably fail to sign Soliai?

The excuses from this organization get worse and worse.

Where are you getting that? It should give us a leg up since Manning told Clark and the gang to eff off.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2012, 11:45 AM
Think it's kind of funny that nobody is taking into account the more than likely chance that the team's discipline goes to pot next season with Club Romeo..

Because Haley was the epitome of calm, cool and collected.

KC Tattoo
03-13-2012, 11:46 AM
This.

If anything we have an advantage for once. Make your moves now. If other teams want to twiddle their thumbs waiting on Manning, fine. Get guys now.

Manning is a non factor for us since he's not coming.

I agree with this, plus if anything it would show we are agressive enough to make a difference for the team. PhM would like that for a team to show initiative to make there team better. Won't make a difference for the Chiefs IK that, but at least it would show something for the fans so we can move on.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2012, 11:46 AM
Think it's kind of funny that nobody is taking into account the more than likely chance that the team's discipline goes to pot next season with Club Romeo..
which has what to do with free agency?

Should people just stop talking about everything and just cry because Crennel is our coach?

If you're right then the whole thing gets blown up and we are looking for a new GM/HC/QB etc. What's the point of bringing it up?

58-4ever
03-13-2012, 11:46 AM
Soliai, Winston and Orton in FA allows this team to go ANYWHERE it wants in the draft. Pioli can trade down if the value isn't there. He can stay put and draft DeCastro to shore up the line. Shit....he can even take a flyer and draft an OLB so that we have depth at that position.

I like this post. :clap:

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 11:47 AM
The only thing I'm wondering is if Soliai is going to just "take visits" right now until the whole Manning fiasco finishes up.

Micjones
03-13-2012, 11:47 AM
Soliai, Winston and Orton in FA allows this team to go ANYWHERE it wants in the draft.

Yep. Time for plan B.

vailpass
03-13-2012, 11:48 AM
Funny as hell to hear Orton talked about as a SuperBowl QB here on ChiefsPlanet. What a difference a year makes.

Coogs
03-13-2012, 11:49 AM
Soliai, Winston and Orton in FA allows this team to go ANYWHERE it wants in the draft. Pioli can trade down if the value isn't there. He can stay put and draft DeCastro to shore up the line. Shit....he can even take a flyer and draft an OLB so that we have depth at that position.

That makes a lot of sense. Which means we probably ain't getting any of them.

Bump
03-13-2012, 11:50 AM
I bet Pioli and Clark offered Peyton a 1 year deal for $9 million or something retarded like that.

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 11:50 AM
That makes a lot of sense. Which means we probably ain't getting any of them.

Pretty much.

I'm not holding my breath. I'm fully expecting a bunch of Tier B/C free agent signings and a RT in the 1st round.

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 11:53 AM
Orton and his 300 yards passing, as well as clutch 3rd down conversions to Breaston as he was going through his reads had nothing to do with keeping the defense fresh or the Packers offense off the field.

Right.

No our Defense took it straight to their offense. Which took away what the Packers D is built to do. When their D couldn't pin their ears back like they had been doing all season, really last couple of years. Their D was lost which allowed our offense to make enough plays. We put up 19 points in that game. Against the 31st Defense in the league. Wow 19 points against the 2cd WORST defense in the league. Come On Man.

tooge
03-13-2012, 11:55 AM
Funny as hell to hear Orton talked about as a SuperBowl QB here on ChiefsPlanet. What a difference a year makes.

Wasn't he the Bears starting QB in a superbowl?

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 11:56 AM
Wasn't he the Bears starting QB in a superbowl?

No. That was Rex Grossman.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:56 AM
I'm sorry - did I miss the way we ended last season?

We were absolutely getting more WINS under Orton last year. If the damn FG unit could block Richard Seymore, he goes undefeated as a starter and somehow gets us into the playoffs.

The WINS came when Orton took over. The offense improved a great deal, hell the defense got better when it didn't have to spend as much time on the field.

You want to play the "winning is the only thing" card - be my guest. This team was a legitimate winner under Kyle Orton; it was not under Matt Cassel.

Minus Kyle Orton's 2 costly interceptions, the Chiefs beat the Raiders and win the division.

People are trying DESPERATELY to see something that just isn't there.

Orton isn't an upgrade, he's a slightly different version of Matt Cassel.

Carlota69
03-13-2012, 11:56 AM
No our Defense took it straight to their offense. Which took away what the Packers D is built to do. When their D couldn't pin their ears back like they had been doing all season, really last couple of years. Their D was lost which allowed our offense to make enough plays. We put up 19 points in that game. Against the 31st Defense in the league. Wow 19 points against the 2cd WORST defense in the league. Come On Man.

yeah but they also were able to do that becasue they were able to rest becasue Orton kept yet chains moving (til we go to end zone of course). Our D was much better with Orton as our QB.

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 11:57 AM
No our Defense took it straight to their offense. Which took away what the Packers D is built to do. When their D couldn't pin their ears back like they had been doing all season, really last couple of years. Their D was lost which allowed our offense to make enough plays. We put up 19 points in that game. Against the 31st Defense in the league. Wow 19 points against the 2cd WORST defense in the league. Come On Man.

With a QB who had been with this team for how long? Give Orton a full off season with the playbook and the WRs and I guarantee we would be putting up more than 19 points a game.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:57 AM
So just head to your lab and build us a prototype QB.

What's your plan? You have mine - what's yours? The Redskins and Colts aren't moving their picks. Are you really going to advocate Tannehill? Okay, but you'll probably have to give up a 3rd to move up and grab him; seems like the Dolphins with Sherman may be hard after him.

There are doable steps that can make this team a legitimately excellent team (and yes, I would say possible favorites in the AFC) - how would you do it?

I ALREADY told you.

I like your plan. I just wouldn't sign Orton. It's a waste of money. Cassel's bonuses have been paid and his base salary is only $5.25M.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2012, 11:58 AM
Minus Kyle Orton's 2 costly interceptions, the Chiefs beat the Raiders and win the division.

People are trying DESPERATELY to see something that just isn't there.

Orton isn't an upgrade, he's a slightly different version of Matt Cassel.

Manning threw 8 picks in 3 games in 2010.

Everyone throws interceptions if they try to stretch the field. And only one of those 2 picks was truly on Orton. Cassel only threw 7 picks 2 years ago and he was largely useless as an NFL QB that season.

People are DESPERATELY trying to diminish Orton's ability because they spent 3 years doing so while he was in Denver.

The kid can play and he's a very nice fit for this team.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 11:58 AM
Orton and his 300 yards passing, as well as clutch 3rd down conversions to Breaston as he was going through his reads had nothing to do with keeping the defense fresh or the Packers offense off the field.

Right.

Cassel's interceptions flat out cost us a win against the Raiders. That knife cuts both ways.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 12:00 PM
Manning threw 8 picks in 3 games in 2010.

Everyone throws interceptions if they try to stretch the field. And only one of those 2 picks was truly on Orton. Cassel only threw 7 picks 2 years ago and he was largely useless as an NFL QB that season.

People are DESPERATELY trying to diminish Orton's ability because they spent 3 years doing so while he was in Denver.

The kid can play and he's a very nice fit for this team.

I agree Orton is a better QB than Cassel, he also has a better arm. I'm not sure we could win the Superbowl with him but I'm certain we could win a playoff game.

Okie_Apparition
03-13-2012, 12:00 PM
Pittsburg kept their D up until they got their shot at Big Ben
Orton can be a close Sanchez I reckon

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 12:01 PM
Manning threw 8 picks in 3 games in 2010.

Everyone throws interceptions if they try to stretch the field. And only one of those 2 picks was truly on Orton. Cassel only threw 7 picks 2 years ago and he was largely useless as an NFL QB that season.

People are DESPERATELY trying to diminish Orton's ability because they spent 3 years doing so while he was in Denver.

The kid can play and he's a very nice fit for this team.

Orton's career numbers are almost IDENTICAL to Matt Cassel's.

He's not an upgrade, he's a different flavor of the same cheap ice cream.

vailpass
03-13-2012, 12:01 PM
Wasn't he the Bears starting QB in a superbowl?

No.
I like Orton, would like to see him do well. He's solid until it comes to closing time. Always seems to turn it over right when you need it least. He's good enough to Dilfer in to a SB though.

Dayze
03-13-2012, 12:02 PM
Orton's career numbers are almost IDENTICAL to Matt Cassel's.

He's not an upgrade, he's a different flavor of the same cheap ice cream.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQj51ABI5dP0ItuJzeeopG85kyWQ013xjyXxPcgjNAeDgJYzogAJ2SlluE-Ng

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 12:03 PM
I ALREADY told you.

I like your plan. I just wouldn't sign Orton. It's a waste of money. Cassel's bonuses have been paid and his base salary is only $5.25M.

This. I too like the plan it seems the most logical thing to do minus Orton. It is a latteral move that would probably tie the orginization to Orton for several years. I would just as soon wait until next offseason to see what is available then.

BigMeatballDave
03-13-2012, 12:04 PM
Orton's career numbers are almost IDENTICAL to Matt Cassel's.

He's not an upgrade, he's a different flavor of the same cheap ice cream.

Ok, who is a better option then?

Chiefnj2
03-13-2012, 12:05 PM
The way I see it is that Cassel will have 4 years in the Pioli system this year. Scott and Clark can only have so much patience. If Cassel sucks again this year, IMO, it would be hard for them to stick with him a 6th year. But, someone like Orton they could rationalize it away and turn 1 mediocre year into 3 years. Better chance of a change in QB - Cassel.

Brock
03-13-2012, 12:07 PM
The way I see it is that Cassel will have 4 years in the Pioli system this year. Scott and Clark can only have so much patience. If Cassel sucks again this year, IMO, it would be hard for them to stick with him a 6th year. But, someone like Orton they could rationalize it away and turn 1 mediocre year into 3 years. Better chance of a change in QB - Cassel.

The problem with that of course, is that I would have to watch Cassel for another year.

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 12:08 PM
.

People are DESPERATELY trying to diminish Orton's ability because they spent 3 years doing so while he was in Denver.

No. He sucked when he was in Chicago too. He was better than Grossman but not much. If there is anything the Bears know it is a shitty QB and they got rid of him. Orton only really looked good when playing under McDaniels.

Dayze
03-13-2012, 12:08 PM
the sooner I realize the Chiefs are perpetually screwed, the better.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 12:08 PM
The problem with that of course, is that I would have to watch Cassel for another year.

In for tha Win!

Okie_Apparition
03-13-2012, 12:10 PM
The team might be better off with Orton than Cassel
how could they still go out & play to the whistle 4 years in with shitty britches

patteeu
03-13-2012, 12:13 PM
For those saying we should just forget about Manning and sign guys like Soliai now, I think you missed the point of the article. The point appeared to be that Soliai would be hesitant to sign with anyone until the Manning deal is decided because until then, several of his potential suitors would be on the sidelines and he wouldn't be able to maximize his market. All the Chiefs can do is make offers. They can't force people to sign.

dirk digler
03-13-2012, 12:13 PM
Orton's career numbers are almost IDENTICAL to Matt Cassel's.

He's not an upgrade, he's a different flavor of the same cheap ice cream.

I am not advocating for Orton but I believe he is a lot better than Cassel.

In your honest opinion when you watched Orton last year could you not tell how better he ran the offense than Cassel? One of the first things I noticed was how defenses played the Chiefs with Orton at QB compared to Cassel\Palko. They actually had to respect the pass for once.

reschief
03-13-2012, 12:16 PM
Can't forget how good Orton looked against us in 2010 when he played for Denver . . .better than Cassel ever looked. . .

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 12:16 PM
The problem with that of course, is that I would have to watch Cassel for another year.

I would rather watch Cassel 1 more year than be stuck with Orton for 3 to 5 years. When we will be bitching about Orton sucking and all of his limitations and what a mistake it was to sign him because he is the very symbol of mediocrity.
I don't want us to make a knee jerk reaction like we have done in the past with the likes of Lew Bush or Carlton Gray. We can always make a lateral move next year if that is what is available.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 12:21 PM
I would rather watch Cassel 1 more year than be stuck with Orton for 3 to 5 years. When we will be bitching about Orton sucking and all of his limitations and what a mistake it was to sign him because he is the very symbol of mediocrity.
I don't want us to make a knee jerk reaction like we have done in the past with the likes of Lew Bush or Carlton Gray. We can always make a lateral move next year if that is what is available.

It's quite possible Orton could sign for backup money, Is anyone serious(around the league) about Orton as a starter?

the Talking Can
03-13-2012, 12:23 PM
with washington out, and flynn and manning available, I think Orton is going to go relatively cheaply as the last viable starter of those mentioned....henne is below even that and is likely a backup at this point

Dicky McElephant
03-13-2012, 12:24 PM
Flynn will probably be fought over between Miami and Cleveland. The loser of that will more than likely target Tannehill or Weeden.

Chief Roundup
03-13-2012, 12:25 PM
It's quite possible Orton could sign for backup money, Is anyone serious(around the league) about Orton as a starter?

Not sure exactly who but there are a lot of teams that need an upgrade at the position.
Orton has said he wants to be a starter. So it will take that not being an option anywhere else.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 12:26 PM
Not sure exactly who but there are a lot of teams that need an upgrade at the position.
Orton has said he wants to be a starter. So it will take that not being an option anywhere else.

We could promise him competition and a possible starting job to get him for less money, just not sure who else would want to sign him to a big contract.

DenverDanChiefsFan
03-13-2012, 12:29 PM
So it'll be Manning's fault when we inevitably fail to sign Soliai?

The excuses from Chiefs Planet get worse and worse.FYP

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 12:38 PM
Ok, who is a better option then?

I already said Matt Cassel was the better option, at least over Orton.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 12:38 PM
The way I see it is that Cassel will have 4 years in the Pioli system this year. Scott and Clark can only have so much patience. If Cassel sucks again this year, IMO, it would be hard for them to stick with him a 6th year. But, someone like Orton they could rationalize it away and turn 1 mediocre year into 3 years. Better chance of a change in QB - Cassel.

Exactly.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 12:38 PM
The problem with that of course, is that I would have to watch Cassel for another year.

So cut off your nose to spite your face...

saphojunkie
03-13-2012, 12:39 PM
Say it with me folks. Tank! :P

Its going to work out okay for Indy.

Worked out better for St. Louis.

How much do the Vikings hate themselves for not losing one more game? Three first rounders and a 2nd. That's what it cost them to win a third game.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 12:40 PM
I am not advocating for Orton but I believe he is a lot better than Cassel.

In your honest opinion when you watched Orton last year could you not tell how better he ran the offense than Cassel? One of the first things I noticed was how defenses played the Chiefs with Orton at QB compared to Cassel\Palko. They actually had to respect the pass for once.

Once they got into the red zone, the offense stalled. That's been a knock on Orton his ENTIRE year.

There's also the fact that he threw for 300 yards against Green Bay and Oakland but then went to Denver and put up a Cassel-like 15-29 for 150 yards.

BigMeatballDave
03-13-2012, 12:41 PM
I already said Matt Cassel was the better option, at least over Orton.

LMAO Come on man

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 12:45 PM
LMAO Come on man

I'd MUCH rather have 1 more year of Cassel vs. 3 or 4 years of Orton.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 12:46 PM
I'd MUCH rather have 1 more year of Cassel vs. 3 or 4 years of Orton.

How about 1 vs 1? Say Cassel is out and they realize it's a mistake, We sign Orton to a 1 year deal.

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-13-2012, 12:46 PM
Paul Soliai - DL - Dolphins Profootballtalk reports free agent NT Paul Soliai is drawing interest from the Broncos, Dolphins, Chiefs, Colts, 49ers, Patriots, and Falcons.
Soliai's market may be slow until Peyton Manning picks a team, as the latter remains the top priority for at least two of those teams. The Colts are interesting fit with Chuck Pagano's new 3-4 defense. New Falcons defensive boss Mike Nolan coached Soliai in Miami.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 12:50 PM
How about 1 vs 1? Say Cassel is out and they realise it's a mistake, They sign Orton to a 1 year deal.

It's gonna depend on the dollars.

That year of Cassel is already paid for...

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 12:50 PM
How about 1 vs 1? Say Cassel is out and they realise it's a mistake, They sign Orton to a 1 year deal.

Not to mention that fact that it makes ZERO logical sense to sign Orton for just 1 year.

If he is gone after year 1, that means he SUCKED and therefore we were no better off than just keeping Cassel.

If he doesn't suck, then he's gonna be here longer than 1 year.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 12:51 PM
Not to mention that fact that it makes ZERO logical sense to sign Orton for just 1 year.

If he is gone after year 1, that means he SUCKED and therefore we were no better off than just keeping Cassel.

If he doesn't suck, then he's gonna be here longer than 1 year.

Ok 3 year deal for backup money?

Bump
03-13-2012, 12:52 PM
I'd MUCH rather have 1 more year of Cassel vs. 3 or 4 years of Orton.

is that the only option? 1 year of Cassel or 3 or 4 years of Orton? No, it's not. Orton is 100 times better than Cassel. He's been around and has probably learned from his experiences with different coaches and probably got better for it. Orton might be able to win us a playoff game, Cassel will never be able to do that. I'll take Orton for a year or 2 and draft Tannehill, if he makes it past Cleveland.

OnTheWarpath58
03-13-2012, 12:52 PM
The way I see it is that Cassel will have 4 years in the Pioli system this year. Scott and Clark can only have so much patience. If Cassel sucks again this year, IMO, it would be hard for them to stick with him a 6th year. But, someone like Orton they could rationalize it away and turn 1 mediocre year into 3 years. Better chance of a change in QB - Cassel.

Seems like we've been saying this for the last three years.

"If Cassel sucks again this year, he's gone."

Eventually, we'll all wise up and realize he's here for the long haul, and that all this talk about competition is 100% bullshit.

Setsuna
03-13-2012, 12:53 PM
Seems like we've been saying this for the last three years.

"If Cassel sucks again this year, he's gone."

Eventually, we'll all wise up and realize he's here for the long haul, and that all this talk about competition is 100% bullshit.

:clap:

patteeu
03-13-2012, 12:56 PM
How about 1 vs 1? Say Cassel is out and they realize it's a mistake, We sign Orton to a 1 year deal.

Ok 3 year deal for backup money?

Why would Orton want to sign on as a one year stopgap or a backup? It's possible that there won't be enough interest in him to do otherwise, but I think that's kind of unlikely given the number of teams looking for QBs.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2012, 12:57 PM
Seems like we've been saying this for the last three years.

"If Cassel sucks again this year, he's gone."

Eventually, we'll all wise up and realize he's here for the long haul, and that all this talk about competition is 100% bullshit.

You expected the team to get rid of him after the 2010 season?

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 01:00 PM
Why would Orton want to sign on as a one year stopgap or a backup? It's possible that there won't be enough interest in him to do otherwise, but I think that's kind of unlikely given the number of teams looking for QBs.

Just saying it's a possibility that he signs somewhere as a backup, so why not here?

OnTheWarpath58
03-13-2012, 01:01 PM
You expected the team to get rid of him after the 2010 season?

I don't expect them to ever get rid of him.

My comment is based on what we've heard from the fans.

"They have to see that Cassel isn't a guy that you can win a SB with."

"Pioli has to be losing patience, this will be Cassel's last year, IMO."

patteeu
03-13-2012, 01:05 PM
Just saying it's a possibility that he signs somewhere as a backup, so why not here?

IMO, if Orton is available for backup prices, it's a no-brainer to sign him as Cassel's competition unless a better option (e.g. Manning) is available. The more interesting question is Cassel plus a lesser version of competition (e.g. Brady Quinn or Jason Campbell) versus a 3 year commitment to Orton.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 01:06 PM
IMO, if Orton is available for backup prices, it's a no-brainer to sign him as Cassel's competition unless a better option (e.g. Manning) is available. The more interesting question is Cassel plus a lesser version of competition (e.g. Brady Quinn or Jason Campbell) versus a 3 year commitment to Orton.

My point is we need a backup anyway, if Orton can be had cheap enough why not.

OnTheWarpath58
03-13-2012, 01:09 PM
Our QB situation reminds me of that scene from Major League where the two Indians fans in the bleachers are arguing about the Home Run.

*Crack of bat*

"Too high."

*ball lands 20 rows deep*

"What do you mean, too high?"

"I mean, it looked too high, like..."

"Who gives a shit, it's gone."


Chiefs Version:

"Cassel"

"Orton"

"Who gives a shit, we're screwed."

patteeu
03-13-2012, 01:11 PM
My point is we need a backup anyway, if Orton can be had cheap enough why not.

I understand your point and I agreed with it. But the more interesting question is what we do if Orton isn't willing to sign for backup money. Both sides have to be willing to agree to get a contract signed.

the Talking Can
03-13-2012, 01:11 PM
cardinals have given up on kolb after one year

you don't chase bad money

Dayze
03-13-2012, 01:11 PM
"They're still shitty"

zonachief
03-13-2012, 01:15 PM
I like the sound of that.

Add in a #2 RB (Addai, BJGE) and we're golden.

Lamicheal james in rd 2?

OnTheWarpath58
03-13-2012, 01:17 PM
"They're still shitty"

LMAO

Exactly.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 01:36 PM
I understand your point and I agreed with it. But the more interesting question is what we do if Orton isn't willing to sign for backup money. Both sides have to be willing to agree to get a contract signed.

Have Cassel back up Stanzi I guess.....more dreaming.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2012, 01:41 PM
I miss the days when free agency began at midnight. Even though contact was forbidden before the stroke of the clock you'd have new deals announced at 12:02 a.m.

Plus, you could wake up in the morning and say "God Damnit Carl" over your bowl of cereal.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 01:42 PM
My point is we need a backup anyway, if Orton can be had cheap enough why not.

Orton doesn't want to be a backup. Part of the reason he expressed disinterest in KC originally is because he didn't want to deal with the whole Cassel situation.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 01:42 PM
IMO, if Orton is available for backup prices, it's a no-brainer to sign him as Cassel's competition unless a better option (e.g. Manning) is available. The more interesting question is Cassel plus a lesser version of competition (e.g. Brady Quinn or Jason Campbell) versus a 3 year commitment to Orton.

You're assuming Orton wants to deal with competition. He's said publicly he wants to be a starter...

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 01:43 PM
is that the only option? 1 year of Cassel or 3 or 4 years of Orton? No, it's not. Orton is 100 times better than Cassel. He's been around and has probably learned from his experiences with different coaches and probably got better for it. Orton might be able to win us a playoff game, Cassel will never be able to do that. I'll take Orton for a year or 2 and draft Tannehill, if he makes it past Cleveland.

Orton is 100 times better than Cassel?

ROFL

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 01:43 PM
You're assuming Orton wants to deal with competition. He's said publicly he wants to be a starter...

Wanting to and being a starter are two different things, Will he retire as opposed to being a backup?

Chiefnj2
03-13-2012, 01:44 PM
Wanting to and being a starter are two different things..

Self awareness is not one of his strong points.

Fritz88
03-13-2012, 01:50 PM
Seattle is an ideal place to Orton. He will beat Jackson for the job easily
Posted via Mobile Device

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 01:50 PM
Wanting to and being a starter are two different things, Will he retire as opposed to being a backup?

Certainly not.

But don't you think he'll go to a place where he might have a CHANCE to start vs. being forced to compete with a guy that is arguably a lesser talent and has a huge head start?

KILLER_CLOWN
03-13-2012, 01:52 PM
Certainly not.

But don't you think he'll go to a place where he might have a CHANCE to start vs. being forced to compete with a guy that is arguably a lesser talent and a huge head start?

I hate the FO, I really do.

Earthling
03-13-2012, 01:53 PM
I don't know how anyone could watch the way Orton played last season vs. the way Cassel played last season and see them as the same caliber player.

Orton did basic quarterback things like look of DBs and slide his protection that Cassel never did. He kept plays alive and found his 3rd reads unlike Cassel. He kept drives moving; even the ones that stalled in the red zone (often with a Bowe drop, a Jones stumble or an O'Connell...well whatever the !@#$ O'Connell did); unlike Cassel.

The eye test couldn't have yielded more dissimilar results. He simply plays the position correctly. Sometimes he's too aggressive, but with a defense like the Chiefs will have next season, that's fine; aggressive can be good.

This. :thumb:

patteeu
03-13-2012, 01:53 PM
You're assuming Orton wants to deal with competition. He's said publicly he wants to be a starter...

I'm not really assuming that. I should have put "competition" in quotes because if Orton is signed, I'd expect him to be the starter. I pretty much agree with what you've been saying.

dirk digler
03-13-2012, 01:56 PM
Once they got into the red zone, the offense stalled. That's been a knock on Orton his ENTIRE year.

There's also the fact that he threw for 300 yards against Green Bay and Oakland but then went to Denver and put up a Cassel-like 15-29 for 150 yards.

No argument there. But let's not forget they were missing their best RB and TE and the play calling was suspect at best.

I am not saying Orton is great or above average or maybe even average but he is better than Cassel by a country mile. I would rather have neither of them unless in a backup role but because the Chiefs are fucking stupid it looks like they are the only option at this point.

DeezNutz
03-13-2012, 01:58 PM
Part of the reason he expressed disinterest in KC originally is because he didn't want to deal with the whole Cassel situation.

Hmm...didn't know Orton was a Chiefs fan. Sounds like he should post on this board.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2012, 02:08 PM
No argument there. But let's not forget they were missing their best RB and TE and the play calling was suspect at best.

I am not saying Orton is great or above average or maybe even average but he is better than Cassel by a country mile. I would rather have neither of them unless in a backup role but because the Chiefs are fucking stupid it looks like they are the only option at this point.I believe htis' position is that he would rather just go with Cassel this year ... suck ... get everyone cut/fired ... get a high draft pick ... move forward.

Instead of getting moderate improvement from Orton and keep inching forward.

DeezNutz
03-13-2012, 02:12 PM
I believe htis' position is that he would rather just go with Cassel this year ... suck ... get everyone cut/fired ... get a high draft pick ... move forward.

Instead of getting moderate improvement from Orton and keep inching forward.

I'm a bit worried that Orton, if he indeed would be an upgrade, would do nothing but perpetuate the mediocrity.

Slight improvement...calls for Orton to get "more help" because he's "earned another year." Same shit we've always been dealing with.

Yeah, Orton would probably be better for this team in the immediate future, but I don't think there's any chance in hell that we can win a SB with him. None. So it's kind of one those things where it's easy to say, "What's the point?"

So, yeah. I guess I would rather have Orton than Cassel, but...

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 02:22 PM
No argument there. But let's not forget they were missing their best RB and TE and the play calling was suspect at best.

I am not saying Orton is great or above average or maybe even average but he is better than Cassel by a country mile. I would rather have neither of them unless in a backup role but because the Chiefs are ****ing stupid it looks like they are the only option at this point.

Most of the players that contributed to said play calling are still here.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 02:25 PM
I believe htis' position is that he would rather just go with Cassel this year ... suck ... get everyone cut/fired ... get a high draft pick ... move forward.

Instead of getting moderate improvement from Orton and keep inching forward.

No, not at all.

1. I don't think Cassel is going to suck bad enough to get everyone fired.

2. I DO think Cassel will be mediocre enough that they'll finally move on from him, given what they've said so far this offseason.

3. I don't believe Orton provides moderate improvement. I don't believe signing Orton is inching forward. I believe Orton is "more of the same".

4. The reasons for canning Cassel after 2011/2012 simply won't exist for Orton. If Orton becomes the starter, the "excuse" counter gets reset to zero. He'll be here for at least 2 or 3 years.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 02:25 PM
I'm a bit worried that Orton, if he indeed would be an upgrade, would do nothing but perpetuate the mediocrity.

Slight improvement...calls for Orton to get "more help" because he's "earned another year." Same shit we've always been dealing with.

Yeah, Orton would probably be better for this team in the immediate future, but I don't think there's any chance in hell that we can win a SB with him. None. So it's kind of one those things where it's easy to say, "What's the point?"

So, yeah. I guess I would rather have Orton than Cassel, but...

Kind of what I'm saying...

Bambi
03-13-2012, 02:27 PM
lol, anyone listening to Keitzman?

He's still in on Manning!

Dave Lane
03-13-2012, 02:28 PM
Kyle Orton isn't going to be that QB that puts the team on his back and takes them to the promise land. Orton is that QB that will allow your team to play to its strengths and not **** you when the game is on the line.

Cassel is neither.

No Orton is the guy that will play well and then fuck you when the game is on the line. Ask any Broncos fans why Tim fucking Tebow beat him out and why he was cut midseason. He sucks in the clutch. Throws a pick 6 at the wrong time.

It's so sad we are so beaten down as chiefs fans that we see Orton as anything more than a guy. He's not look at all the threads from when Orton was sent to the donks and how hard we laughed at them. Now the rest of the league is laughing at us for wanting to sign him.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 02:34 PM
lol, anyone listening to Keitzman?

He's still in on Manning!

Actually he's talking about some guy getting stabbed in the femoral artery with a putter...

And he just called the guy from Sporting KC Rob "Hymen".

ROFL

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 02:35 PM
No Orton is the guy that will play well and then **** you when the game is on the line. Ask any Broncos fans why Tim ****ing Tebow beat him out and why he was cut midseason. He sucks in the clutch. Throws a pick 6 at the wrong time.

It's so sad we are so beaten down as chiefs fans that we see Orton as anything more than a guy. He's not look at all the threads from when Orton was sent to the donks and how hard we laughed at them. Now the rest of the league is laughing at us for wanting to sign him.

:clap:

dirk digler
03-13-2012, 02:35 PM
I believe htis' position is that he would rather just go with Cassel this year ... suck ... get everyone cut/fired ... get a high draft pick ... move forward.

Instead of getting moderate improvement from Orton and keep inching forward.

Well if that is the case I am all for it.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 02:36 PM
Well if that is the case I am all for it.

We couldn't be that lucky.

the Talking Can
03-13-2012, 02:38 PM
i'd like to thank Candy Wrapper Pioli for making us choose between Cassel and Orton...

4 years of Scott

Chocolate Hog
03-13-2012, 02:41 PM
i'd like to thank Candy Wrapper Pioli for making us choose between Cassel and Orton...

4 years of Scott

Heh this is what the highest paid GM gets us. Way to go Clark!

The Bad Guy
03-13-2012, 02:41 PM
i'd like to thank Candy Wrapper Pioli for making us choose between Cassel and Orton...

4 years of Scott

Hopefully someone turns over a rock and it crushes him.

Carlota69
03-13-2012, 02:42 PM
lol, anyone listening to Keitzman?

He's still in on Manning!
Whats his schtick now?

The Bad Guy
03-13-2012, 02:42 PM
We couldn't be that lucky.

Yep. We aren't.

Pioli is honestly here for a long, long time.

Clark is going to purge everyone but him.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 02:43 PM
Yep. We aren't.

Pioli is honestly here for a long, long time.

Clark is going to purge everyone but him.

We had our 3 years of top 10 picks and we fucked them up.

Now we're back in our 7-9/9-7 cycle.

It will be another 10 years before anything changes.

Mike in SW-MO
03-13-2012, 03:12 PM
No argument there. But let's not forget they were missing their best RB and TE and the play calling was suspect at best.

I am not saying Orton is great or above average or maybe even average but he is better than Cassel by a country mile. I would rather have neither of them unless in a backup role but because the Chiefs are ****ing stupid it looks like they are the only option at this point.

Plus they were moving the ball fine and scored a TD before Bowed went down.

Lack of success not surprising with no running game, no #1 receiver, no pass-catching TE, being protected by BR.

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 03:13 PM
Plus they were moving the ball fine and scored a TD before Bowed went down.

Lack of success not surprising with no running game, no #1 receiver, no pass-catching TE, being protected by BR.

Sounds like all the excuses made for Cassel.

Can't wait for 3 more years of 8-8 with Orton.

BigMeatballDave
03-13-2012, 03:22 PM
Sounds like all the excuses made for Cassel.

Can't wait for 3 more years of 8-8 with Orton.

There are no better options. Realistically. Cassel is NOT an option.

Im all for handing it over to Stanzi, but that is not happening.

Campbell?

Henne?

Chocolate Hog
03-13-2012, 03:27 PM
Someone just called Nick Wright and said the Chiefs are still rebuilding ROFL

DeezNutz
03-13-2012, 03:28 PM
There are no better options. Realistically. Cassel is NOT an option.

Im all for handing it over to Stanzi, but that is not happening.

Campbell?

Henne?

http://www.tagmag.info/junk/sh.htm

the Talking Can
03-13-2012, 03:28 PM
Someone just called Nick Wright and said the Chiefs are still rebuilding ROFL

it was Chiefsplanet...

Flachief58
03-13-2012, 03:33 PM
Orton to visit Dallas

TEX
03-13-2012, 03:35 PM
We had our 3 years of top 10 picks and we ****ed them up.

Now we're back in our 7-9/9-7 cycle.

It will be another 10 years before anything changes.

Yep. Saw it coming as it was happening. Idiots LMAO

htismaqe
03-13-2012, 03:36 PM
There are no better options. Realistically. Cassel is NOT an option.

Im all for handing it over to Stanzi, but that is not happening.

Campbell?

Henne?

If Orton is an option, so is Cassel.

Neither of them is anything to write home about.

T-post Tom
03-13-2012, 04:05 PM
So it'll be Manning's fault when we inevitably fail to sign Soliai?

The excuses from this organization get worse and worse.

So Mike Freeman & Mike Florio work for the Chiefs now? Did not know that.