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View Full Version : Chiefs Late night bullshit: The QB position, and our first 3 draft picks.


Direckshun
03-14-2012, 09:50 PM
The Chiefs came into this offseason determined to do something different at the QB position. Whether it was to bring in a new QB altogether, trade up and get one early in the NFL Draft, or even if they felt the need to trot out Cassel one more year (which at this point, seems inevitable), to at least give him some competition.

This much openness to change at the QB position leaves only one possible option as unacceptable: going into the 2012 season with a completely unchanged depth chart.

Cassel and Stanzi, the team's current QBs, is that completely unchanged depth chart. Worse yet, it is not yet clear that Stanzi can provide Cassel the competition that Crennel and Pioli are constantly talking about.

As a result, that competition for Cassel needs to come from the NFL Draft.

Fortunately, the NFL Draft has one player where we can find somebody who really can push Cassel. Not merely come on board and provide Cassel a backup -- I'm talking about somebody that can immediately push Cassel for that starting position in an open competition, though I'm relatively certain Cassel would still win out.

Luck and Griffin are out of the question, and Tannehill is currently set to be drastically overdrafted in the draft's first ten picks. (Should Tannehill "fall" to 11, I'm certain this is a pick the Chiefs need to make, but he's probably going much earlier...)

I bring this all up because I've watched some Oklahoma State tape over the past two days to brush up on a few players like Levy Adcock, and I'm telling you right now: if OK State's Brandon Weeden was five years younger, he's a first round pick.

Fortunately for us in kind of a weird way, he isn't. He's soon to be 29. But that should be enough to drop him, his arm, and his talent down into the second round. The Chiefs would be getting "good enough" value by selecting him with their second round pick. And when it comes to quarterbacks, "good enough" value is more than good enough.

Weeden is really talented. He can make all the throws, and boasts a top five arm in this year's draft. He can also read defenses pretty well, though it was in OK State's run-and-shoot system. Nonetheless, if the Chiefs feel that Weeden is the better talent than Cassel in the preseason, Daboll clearly has the flexibility to adjust the offense to bring Weeden along. Weeden is also an incredibly clutch performer who plays his best in the fourth quarter (and overtime). He beat Griffin, Tannehill, and Luck in games this year. He possesses a killer instinct and loves going for the jugular. Being a mere game manager is not in his DNA.

Weeden doesn't provide us a franchise QB for 10 years. He doesn't. But he does provide us the opportunity to get more out of our QB position for the upcoming year while this team continues to assemble and develop its talent every else. It's not incredibly clear what this team could do at the QB position in 2013 and beyond, but this team cannot afford to do the same thing at the QB position and expect different results. Weeden is a shot of cocaine into our QB depth chart. He'll no doubt challenge Stanzi to get better, as well.

If this team wants Weeden, they can probably expect him to fall to their 2nd round pick. (He lasted until the 3rd round pick in the CP Mock, but that's just too much of a risk to wait for someone you want to challenge Cassel.)

That could be an issue for this team's drafting ambitions. It's clear now that Soliai has resigned with Miami, that this team needs NT help in the worst way, and I've been targeting Washington University's NT Alameda Ta'amu with our second round pick.

There's no telling what NT options are available with our third round pick (maybe Josh Chapman will be there, maybe not...). And guys like Jean-Baptiste and Fangupo are purely developmental guys.

So, well. Let's take the plunge with Dontari Poe in the first round. We've got the defensive head coach, talent developer extraordinaire. I know Poe didn't show much in terms of anchoring at Memphis, but with his extraordinary strength and his amazing athleticism, as well as his astonishing size. Put the idea before Crennel -- if the guy signs off, I'm in. If not, I'm comfortable with dropping coin on Casey Hampton when the Steelers inevitably cut him.

That does mean that we've spent our first two picks on nose and QB. The third pick means that we have to go right tackle.

Fortunately, the value in OTs on the draft's second day allows us to do that. Bobbie Massie, Zebrie Sanders, Andrew Datko, Kelechi Osmele, Mitchell Schwartz, Levy Adcock, and Brandon Mosley. Tons of talent that should fall to the Chiefs for a solid right tackle for the next ten years at the right tackle position.

My general idea is:

1st: Poe
2nd: Weeden
3rd: Schwartz

What say ye, tl;dr crowd? :D

Chocolate Hog
03-14-2012, 09:51 PM
That would be a horrible draft. Poe is a bust and Weeden is too old.

tredadda
03-14-2012, 09:51 PM
No to Weeden. Guy is too old to be learning the game.

mcaj22
03-14-2012, 09:52 PM
no, no and no

Direckshun
03-14-2012, 09:57 PM
Keep in mind, if you're saying no to Weeden, you have no other real options to push Cassel.

BossChief
03-14-2012, 09:58 PM
Not just no, hell no.

Fritz88
03-14-2012, 10:05 PM
My reaction to Weeden in the second

http://i.imgur.com/5iyqW.gif

Blick
03-14-2012, 10:06 PM
Would rather just see Stanzi get a legit shot at competing with Cassel.

BigChiefFan
03-14-2012, 10:06 PM
Keep in mind, if you're saying no to Weeden, you have no other real options to push Cassel.

Then so be it.

Saul Good
03-14-2012, 10:10 PM
So you think Tannehill goes "much earlier" than pick 11?

chiefzilla1501
03-14-2012, 10:11 PM
So you think Tannehill goes "much earlier" than pick 11?

Yes, and even if he goes at #11, I hate the pick. Badly as I want a QB.

Direckshun
03-14-2012, 10:15 PM
So you think Tannehill goes "much earlier" than pick 11?

I do.

wazu
03-14-2012, 10:15 PM
Would rather just see Stanzi get a legit shot at competing with Cassel.

I'm not really interested in competition that includes Cassel. Just give Stanzi or Tannehill the job. Cassel is a fine back-up, but we know that's his ceiling.

Chocolate Hog
03-14-2012, 10:24 PM
Keep in mind, if you're saying no to Weeden, you have no other real options to push Cassel.


How the fuck do you come to that idea?

patteeu
03-14-2012, 10:28 PM
Keep in mind, if you're saying no to Weeden, you have no other real options to push Cassel.

When Manning signs on with the Titans, maybe Hasselbeck becomes expendable. Vince Young isn't on a team. Derrick Anderson, Charlie Batch, David Carr, Kellen Clemons, Rex Grossman, Shaun Hill, Josh Johnson, Jon Kitna, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, and several others are also out there. None of them are QBoTF, and some of them might be absolute junk, but if you can't find competition for Matt Cassel in that pile, Matt Cassel isn't as bad as everyone says he is.

carlos3652
03-14-2012, 10:29 PM
I say - Trade completely out of the first, pick up an additional 2nd this year and a 1st next year.

2nd Rounders -
Washington University's NT Alameda Ta'amu
Stanford TE Coby Fleener

3rd Rounder -
Brandon Brooks, G, Miami (Ohio)

Next year - 2 #1's - get our QB.

This if* we sign Winston, Tolbert and Boss.

patteeu
03-14-2012, 10:30 PM
When Manning signs on with the Titans, maybe Hasselbeck becomes expendable. Vince Young isn't on a team. Derrick Anderson, Charlie Batch, David Carr, Kellen Clemons, Rex Grossman, Shaun Hill, Josh Johnson, Jon Kitna, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, and several others are also out there. None of them are QBoTF, and some of them might be absolute junk, but if you can't find competition for Matt Cassel in that pile, Matt Cassel isn't as bad as everyone says he is.

We're better off using that draft pick on BPA than taking a guy who isn't really much more of a QBotF prospect than these guys. If they take Weeden or any QB in the 1st or 2nd round, it damages any chance of getting a real QBotF next offseason.

T-post Tom
03-14-2012, 10:31 PM
Poe's combine performance far exceeded his performance on the field against mediocre talent. I think he might be a distant cousin of Ryan Sims.

Fritz88
03-14-2012, 10:34 PM
I say - Trade completely out of the first, pick up an additional 2nd this year and a 1st next year.

2nd Rounders -
Washington University's NT Alameda Ta'amu
Stanford TE Coby Fleener

3rd Rounder -
Brandon Brooks, G, Miami (Ohio)

Next year - 2 #1's - get our QB.

This if* we sign Winston, Tolbert and Boss.

I like.

whoman69
03-14-2012, 10:44 PM
When Manning signs on with the Titans, maybe Hasselbeck becomes expendable. Vince Young isn't on a team. Derrick Anderson, Charlie Batch, David Carr, Kellen Clemons, Rex Grossman, Shaun Hill, Josh Johnson, Jon Kitna, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, and several others are also out there. None of them are QBoTF, and some of them might be absolute junk, but if you can't find competition for Matt Cassel in that pile, Matt Cassel isn't as bad as everyone says he is.

/Scott Pioli

Blick
03-14-2012, 11:00 PM
I'm not really interested in competition that includes Cassel. Just give Stanzi or Tannehill the job. Cassel is a fine back-up, but we know that's his ceiling.

I'm not either, but we all know he's going to be here.

SNR
03-15-2012, 12:45 AM
Poe fucking sucks. I'm putting an ax through my kitchen table if we're dumb enough to draft his punk ass.

I see Ta'amu as the only realistic NT in this draft who could possibly anchor that position for many many years. He's an immovable object, which is all we really need. Poe is a soft bitch. Reminds me a lot of Phil Taylor last year.

1. Tannehill (I think he'll be there for us unless Miami takes him, which I doubt)
2. Ta'amu
3. Whatever. Doesn't matter.

SNR
03-15-2012, 12:46 AM
I say - Trade completely out of the first, pick up an additional 2nd this year and a 1st next year.

2nd Rounders -
Washington University's NT Alameda Ta'amu
Stanford TE Coby Fleener

3rd Rounder -
Brandon Brooks, G, Miami (Ohio)

Next year - 2 #1's - get our QB.

This if* we sign Winston, Tolbert and Boss.Or this. I like this plan better, aksh

lostcause
03-15-2012, 12:50 AM
can i just have bj raji please?

Nightfyre
03-15-2012, 06:52 AM
I just want to throw this out there: If the Bronco's flip tebow to JAX, we should make a move for Gabbert. Throw like a second or third at them for him.

King_Chief_Fan
03-15-2012, 06:56 AM
I just want to throw this out there: If the Bronco's flip tebow to JAX, we should make a move for Gabbert. Throw like a second or third at them for him.

holy crap :shake:
Gabbert can't challenge Cassel.

Bane
03-15-2012, 06:59 AM
The only competition Casshole's starting gig will get is with injury and I'm pulling for injury.

Mr_Tomahawk
03-15-2012, 07:02 AM
Sign Tolbert, Winston, and Boss

1. Tannehill
2. Ta'amu
3. BPA
.
.
.

I would consider this a good offseason if these moves were made.

Brainiac
03-15-2012, 07:08 AM
When Manning signs on with the Titans, maybe Hasselbeck becomes expendable.
Having Matt Cassel and Matt Hasselbeck on the same team would be just too darn confusing.

tooge
03-15-2012, 07:08 AM
I don't have a problem with Weeden as an early 3rd rounder or so. He's gonna be 29 yo, so he gets a year under his belt learning, then you get 5 good years out of him as a qb. Thats what we got out of trent green and we gave up a first rounder for him.

Brainiac
03-15-2012, 07:10 AM
holy crap :shake:
Gabbert can't challenge Cassel.

Hey, LOTS of guys ran the spread offense in college and went on to be great NFL quarterbacks for many years. For instance, you have, well, um, never mind.

Hydrae
03-15-2012, 07:13 AM
I say - Trade completely out of the first, pick up an additional 2nd this year and a 1st next year.

2nd Rounders -
Washington University's NT Alameda Ta'amu
Stanford TE Coby Fleener

3rd Rounder -
Brandon Brooks, G, Miami (Ohio)

Next year - 2 #1's - get our QB.

This if* we sign Winston, Tolbert and Boss.


The bolded part is the plan I have been supporting for a couple of months now.

One question, if we pick up Boss, why are you drafting a TE in the second round?

OnTheWarpath58
03-15-2012, 07:18 AM
Keep in mind, if you're saying no to Weeden, you have no other real options to push Cassel.

Sad that you think Weeden is an option to push Cassel.

We'd all be better off if we'd just wake up and realize that unless by some act of God, Peyton Manning comes walking through the door, this team isn't going to sniff a playoff win, much less a SB in the next few years.

With that said, there's no reason to chase a bad decision (Cassel) with another bad decision (another mediocre QB)

carlos3652
03-15-2012, 07:25 AM
The bolded part is the plan I have been supporting for a couple of months now.

One question, if we pick up Boss, why are you drafting a TE in the second round?

Our TE is injury Prone - I like to have 3 TE on the roster just in case one of them brakes.

Plus if we have casshole this year we will see a lot of 2 rb, 2 te, 1 wr and 1 rb 2 te, 2 wr sets

the Talking Can
03-15-2012, 07:31 AM
wait...your fix is drafting a DT that admittedly doesn't fit our scheme, and then draft a 30 yr old rookie QB?

no thanks

Danman
03-15-2012, 07:59 AM
The more I see this year's QB that would be available, the more I like Wilson in the draft next year.

Dave Lane
03-15-2012, 08:02 AM
Keep in mind, if you're saying no to Weeden, you have no other real options to push Cassel.

I'm cool with Weeden. No to Tannehill who I think it totally bust material.

Dave Lane
03-15-2012, 08:04 AM
holy crap :shake:
Gabbert can't challenge Cassel.

Gabbert > Tannehill

Mr_Tomahawk
03-15-2012, 08:07 AM
Gabbert > Tannehill

Hardly.

Dave Lane
03-15-2012, 08:25 AM
I like Foles personally but Weeden is fine with me in the 2nd.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UhaehG4uWoY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sofa King
03-15-2012, 08:30 AM
I like Foles personally but Weeden is fine with me in the 2nd.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UhaehG4uWoY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Shit, i want his receivers!! wowzers!

Dr. Gigglepants
03-15-2012, 09:51 AM
I just want to throw this out there: If the Bronco's flip tebow to JAX, we should make a move for Gabbert. Throw like a second or third at them for him.

Hell no. I still feel like I just got away from this guy, please don't bring him here.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dr. Gigglepants
03-15-2012, 09:59 AM
Question, this may be dumb. Doesn't it pretty much tip our hand that we're going QB in the draft (at some point) if we don't pick one up in free agency? I guess we could only have 2 qb's on the roster but that's rare isn't it?
Posted via Mobile Device

Pestilence
03-15-2012, 10:03 AM
Question, this may be dumb. Doesn't it pretty much tip our hand that we're going QB in the draft (at some point) if we don't pick one up in free agency? I guess we could only have 2 qb's on the roster but that's rare isn't it?
Posted via Mobile Device

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2009/02/medium_mattcassel.jpg

SNR
03-15-2012, 10:03 AM
I like Foles personally but Weeden is fine with me in the 2nd.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UhaehG4uWoY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>Foles would certainly be competition for Cassel.



................at checking down to the RB or throwing worthless bubble screens

beach tribe
03-15-2012, 10:14 AM
I know he won the game and all, but I don't see one play in this game that would get me excited about the guy, and a TON that would make me say no thanks.

If it wasn't for Blackmon BEASTING on inferior players, He never wins the game IMO.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aUbkSR4wtWI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

keg in kc
03-15-2012, 10:33 AM
I'm probably going to be in the unpopular club by saying this, but to me the draft has virtually nothing to do with improving the quarterback position in 2012. That isn't to say it's absolutely impossible for a rookie quarterback to play, but I don't think you should ever make that assumption, and I don't believe you ever should draft anybody looking for immediate impact. I've always believed you draft a player envisioning what he'll be in the latter half of his rookie contract, and that the initial half is basically money thrown away as development costs. Particularly at quarterback. Anything positive you get is a bonus.

So I think that improving the QB position in 2012 is an issue that deals much more directly with Matt Cassel than it does any rookie. I would love to have a rookie, am not in any way, shape or form against drafting one, but Matt Cassel needs to be replaced by a competent veteran quarterback. Or, hell, even keep Cassel, and have that "competition" they alluded to, with new vet, Cassel, Stanzi and high-round (1 or 2) rookie quarterback vying for 3 roster spots.

But don't approach the draft like you're looking for the 2012 starting quarterback there.

Dave Lane
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
I know he won the game and all, but I don't see one play in this game that would get me excited about the guy, and a TON that would make me say no thanks.

If it wasn't for Blackmon BEASTING on inferior players, He never wins the game IMO.

True but this is a bowl game against a pretty damned good ranked Stanford team. He did put up 40+ and out dueled Andrew Luck to win the game. Watch some highlight videos where he's not got defenders flying all around him and see what you can see. His OL gave him very little help in this game.

Dave Lane
03-15-2012, 11:46 AM
Foles would certainly be competition for Cassel.



................at checking down to the RB or throwing worthless bubble screens

Foles has a pretty big arm to go with that. And this is 2010 couldn't find a good 2011 video.

qabbaan
03-15-2012, 11:47 AM
I don't think there is any good value in trading up now. Just pick the best QB on the board with our first or second if the value is anywhere close.

King_Chief_Fan
03-15-2012, 11:49 AM
I know he won the game and all, but I don't see one play in this game that would get me excited about the guy, and a TON that would make me say no thanks.

If it wasn't for Blackmon BEASTING on inferior players, He never wins the game IMO.
<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aUbkSR4wtWI" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

ditto....hard to tell him from Cassel:evil:

King_Chief_Fan
03-15-2012, 11:50 AM
Gabbert > Tannehill

not interested in either one

SNR
03-15-2012, 11:51 AM
Foles has a pretty big arm to go with that. And this is 2010 couldn't find a good 2011 video.That's practically all he did in 2011, too.

He doesn't use his big arm. He checks down. He prefers underneath throws. In effing college.

No thanks. Do not want.

Pestilence
03-15-2012, 11:56 AM
That's practically all he did in 2011, too.

He doesn't use his big arm. He checks down. He prefers underneath throws. In effing college.

No thanks. Do not want.

How much of that is the offensive coordinator though?

whoman69
03-15-2012, 11:57 AM
But don't approach the draft like you're looking for the 2012 starting quarterback there.

There is no QB available to us that will be ready to go out of the gate in this draft. Pioli has also made sure there is no QB with a reasonable chance of competing with Cassel out there in FA unless he makes a miracle run at Manning. Pioli lied.

Frosty
03-15-2012, 12:04 PM
How much of that is the offensive coordinator though?

The coaching staff in AZ was awful (and are all gone now). I think Foles had it drilled into him to protect the ball and check down.

Dave Lane
03-15-2012, 12:06 PM
How much of that is the offensive coordinator though?

If its the play call what do you do?

Also his OL completely sucks hence the short stuff by design I think.

Frosty
03-15-2012, 12:14 PM
If its the play call what do you do?

Also his OL completely sucks hence the short stuff by design I think.

AZ played a poor man's version of the Oklahoma spread, with a lot of short, underneath stuff. Foles was under center a little more often than the OK QB's, though.

SNR
03-15-2012, 12:16 PM
If its the play call what do you do?

Also his OL completely sucks hence the short stuff by design I think.That sounds like a damn perfect Matt Cassel excuse.

Frosty
03-15-2012, 12:17 PM
Does anyone really think that the Chiefs will go into next season with Cassel's back up being Stanzi and a rookie? I think Pioli will feel that not having an experienced back up was a mistake last year and will bring in some has been QB (Derek Anderson, come on down!) and if they do draft a QB, he'll fight it out with Stanzi to make the roster.

Pestilence
03-15-2012, 12:21 PM
Does anyone really think that the Chiefs will go into next season with Cassel's back up being Stanzi and a rookie? I think Pioli will feel that not having an experienced back up was a mistake last year and will bring in some has been QB (Derek Anderson, come on down!) and if they do draft a QB, he'll fight it out with Stanzi to make the roster.

Like I said in another thread. If Hasselbeck is cut when the Titans sign Manning.....I'd take him in a heartbeat. Either him or Garrard.

Both are talented enough to beat out Cassel.

Frosty
03-15-2012, 12:23 PM
Like I said in another thread. If Hasselbeck is cut when the Titans sign Manning.....I'd take him in a heartbeat. Either him or Garrard.

Both are talented enough to beat out Cassel.

True, though Hass has gotten pretty fragile lately. We would end up seeing Cassel at some point.

However, you are assuming that there will actually be a competition at QB.

Hydrae
03-15-2012, 12:26 PM
ditto....hard to tell him from Cassel:evil:

Nah, it is easy to tell that isn't Cassel, Foles is playing a college game. :D

HemiEd
03-15-2012, 12:30 PM
Having Matt Cassel and Matt Hasselbeck on the same team would be just too darn confusing.

Why would that be different than multiple Derricks or Brandons?

But if it is a justification for getting rid of Matt Cassel, sign me up.

patteeu
03-15-2012, 01:14 PM
There is no QB available to us that will be ready to go out of the gate in this draft. Pioli has also made sure there is no QB with a reasonable chance of competing with Cassel out there in FA unless he makes a miracle run at Manning. Pioli lied.

How could you possibly know he lied? They were pretty public about their interest in Manning. It's amazing how many women we have here.

KCDC
03-15-2012, 01:46 PM
There is no QB available to us that will be ready to go out of the gate in this draft. Pioli has also made sure there is no QB with a reasonable chance of competing with Cassel out there in FA unless he makes a miracle run at Manning. Pioli lied.

He said he'd bring in competition. He didn't say it would be any good. ;)

Josh Johnson of Tampa sure looked good against us. He might be worth a look.

I could live with Weeden in the 3rd. What does he bring that Stanzi does not? Gabbert? Like Jimmy Clausen, some good college QBs have no business in the NFL.

whoman69
03-15-2012, 03:33 PM
How could you possibly know he lied? They were pretty public about their interest in Manning. It's amazing how many women we have here.

If that was Plan A, they didn't have a Plan B. They didn't even express an interest in any other option that would be serious competition to Cassel. We'll get someone out there with the talent level of a Brady Quinn, which nobody should really consider a threat to unseat Cassel.

whoman69
03-15-2012, 03:38 PM
He said he'd bring in competition. He didn't say it would be any good. ;)



Sounds like a lie to me.

Lie; a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.