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View Full Version : Other Sports Dwight Howard = Class ???


Molitoth
03-15-2012, 11:21 AM
Just watched his press conference and I had to come to the conclusion that his speech about loyalty was a great thing.

Its amazing that a player can be loyal to an owner/city/team and put aside money/power/selling out.

I commend him for his decision.

He basically just did the opposite of what Lebron James did.

MIAdragon
03-15-2012, 11:23 AM
yea pls forget all that "trade me to the Nets" stuff k bye.

lostcause
03-15-2012, 11:23 AM
... and he gave up a chance for a championship next year.

WV
03-15-2012, 11:25 AM
We'll see how he feels in 2 years. Orlando isn't winning shit anytime soon.

Molitoth
03-15-2012, 11:28 AM
If Jared Allen said "I'm loyal to the Chiefs, I will stay here for less money." would you think different of him?

L.A. Chieffan
03-15-2012, 11:31 AM
dwights my hero

lostcause
03-15-2012, 11:31 AM
If Jared Allen said "I'm loyal to the Chiefs, I will stay here for less money." would you think different of him?

The NFL and NBA are different leagues to begin with, with different mentalities. That said, if Jared Allen said he would stay on, long term to build a defense around him for less money - then that would be sweet.

Howard is staying around in Orlando for one more year, he's still the only player they have and they aren't winning next year. All of this trade talk will resurface this time next year and then he will leave. If he signed on for less money for 5 more years so that Orlando could build the team, it might be a different story.

As is, he's just making a decision that's costing him the opportunity to compete for a championship next year.

Reaper16
03-15-2012, 11:34 AM
He's an idiot. I'm a Magic fan, btw.

Demonpenz
03-15-2012, 11:35 AM
*sounds from nzoners house* *****try try try to understand....He's a magic man ****

the Talking Can
03-15-2012, 11:39 AM
so he's signing an extension, or he's just talking about loyalty?

okcchief
03-15-2012, 11:41 AM
He's been all over the place with this. Don't be shocked if he changes his mind in a hour.

L.A. Chieffan
03-15-2012, 11:43 AM
so he's signing an extension, or he's just talking about loyalty?

its a one year opt-in. basically he wants to go through this whole circus again next year and hopes that someone will

A. Trade Orlando all their good players for nothing and he stays.

or

B. Trade Orlando jack shit and he goes.

Good luck with that Dwight

mikey23545
03-15-2012, 12:31 PM
He's an idiot. I'm a Magic fan, btw.

its a one year opt-in. basically he wants to go through this whole circus again next year and hopes that someone will

A. Trade Orlando all their good players for nothing and he stays.

or

B. Trade Orlando jack shit and he goes.

Good luck with that Dwight


He's thinking of the Magic and his teammates. By waiving the early termination clause he is giving the Magic one more year to get something for him in a trade. Otherwise they he would have just walked away to a new team with the Magic left high and dry.

I knew most of you could only understand loyalty to one's self, Young Generation!

DJ's left nut
03-15-2012, 01:04 PM
He's thinking of the Magic and his teammates. By waiving the early termination clause he is giving the Magic one more year to get something for him in a trade. Otherwise they he would have just walked away to a new team with the Magic left high and dry.

I knew most of you could only understand loyalty to one's self, Young Generation!

Give me a break.

Had he been willing to waive that clause months ago, the Magic would've gotten him traded by now.

Dwight Howard has no earthly idea what he wants to do. He knows he doesn't want to stay in Orlando anymore but he also knows he doesn't want to be the bad guy in this whole thing. He's essentially LeBron James without the stomach for the negative press (or perhaps he learned from James' negative press).

This was as much about a guy being indecisive as it was about him being loyal. Ultimately I think it's good for the league, but lets not act as though this was all benevolence from Dwight; there was plenty of self-interest involved here.

Bane
03-15-2012, 01:08 PM
Lol I remember when he said "do I pose to respond to dat". Hahaha.

Molitoth
03-15-2012, 02:57 PM
I had not kept up on the Dwight Howard stuff until I saw the press conf today. After researching a bit more into it, I'm not sure what my take on Howard is... I suppose adding the Question Mark to my thread title was the right thing to do.

ChiefsandO'sfan
07-01-2012, 10:59 AM
SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter

Dwight Howard tells Magic he wants trade to Nets, @Chris_Broussard reports


This guy is unreal.

Ceej
07-01-2012, 11:07 AM
SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter

Dwight Howard tells Magic he wants trade to Nets, @Chris_Broussard reports


This guy is unreal.

Tyshawn Taylor could lob it all day to Howard.

Assuming Taylor makes the team and plays any minutes.

-King-
07-01-2012, 11:10 AM
SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter

Dwight Howard tells Magic he wants trade to Nets, @Chris_Broussard reports


This guy is unreal.

How? Everybody was expecting it.
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
07-01-2012, 11:10 AM
Lol where are all the haters?

If this was Lebron this thread would have 1000 posts by now
Posted via Mobile Device

MIAdragon
07-01-2012, 11:13 AM
Heh I was going to bump this, he's also threatening to sue the Magic for blackmailing him into opting in. F this guy hope he blows both knees out and never gets to play again. Some class.

L.A. Chieffan
07-01-2012, 11:21 AM
That time he walked up on van gundy being interviewed and tried to play buddy buddy was aaaaawkward

SNR
07-01-2012, 11:23 AM
Dude's just sick of shooting commercials with Ken Jeong, that's all

Demonpenz
07-01-2012, 03:35 PM
Lol where are all the haters?

If this was Lebron this thread would have 1000 posts by now
Posted via Mobile Device

If there is one person your average Joe White-Trash Chiefsfan knows in the NBA it's Lebron James, then they heard of him switching teams, which Joe White-Trash HATES (unless it is Marcus Allen) so where are the haters? Probably going "Who the fuck is Dwight Howard" then scrolling up to click the NSFW links in the pictures section.

Pablo
07-01-2012, 03:40 PM
If there is one person your average Joe White-Trash Chiefsfan knows in the NBA it's Lebron James, then they heard of him switching teams, which Joe White-Trash HATES (unless it is Marcus Allen) so where are the haters? Probably going "Who the fuck is Dwight Howard" then scrolling up to click the NSFW links in the pictures section.The Salvation Army in St. Joe is full of Lebron's Cavs jerseys. Cigarette holes and Arby-Q sauce still down the front.

Demonpenz
07-01-2012, 03:42 PM
oh no LMAO

Simply Red
07-01-2012, 03:44 PM
with business, I'm loyal to nobody. Long term loyalty toward an employer at the workplace, is for suckas'

WhiteWhale
07-01-2012, 03:49 PM
If there is one person your average Joe White-Trash Chiefsfan knows in the NBA it's Lebron James, then they heard of him switching teams, which Joe White-Trash HATES (unless it is Marcus Allen) so where are the haters? Probably going "Who the **** is Dwight Howard" then scrolling up to click the NSFW links in the pictures section.

Players asked to be traded all the time.

Not all players have an ESPN special dedicated to being the center of the universe.

Plus, Howard wants to go home. He's not going to the Nets because it improves his chances of winning...

James was bailing on his hometown to join forces with an eastern conference rival so things would be easier.

I don't really like either guy. James lives on another planet (probably the same one he was born on) and Howard is just a bit of a nut.

ChiefsCountry
07-01-2012, 03:50 PM
Plus, Howard wants to go home.


Hmm when did Brooklyn move to Atlanta.

WhiteWhale
07-01-2012, 03:51 PM
Hmm when did Brooklyn move to Atlanta.

My fault... he's just nuts.

Molitoth
07-01-2012, 04:04 PM
When I made this post I didn't know much about Howard, nor do I still...
But what a flip flopper. After that press conf this makes him look real stupid.

chefsos
07-01-2012, 04:11 PM
I have no problem with a guy asking to be traded.

I do have a problem with specifying one team to deal with. That's what free agency is for.

DJ's left nut
07-01-2012, 04:33 PM
Give me a break.

Had he been willing to waive that clause months ago, the Magic would've gotten him traded by now.

Dwight Howard has no earthly idea what he wants to do. He knows he doesn't want to stay in Orlando anymore but he also knows he doesn't want to be the bad guy in this whole thing. He's essentially LeBron James without the stomach for the negative press (or perhaps he learned from James' negative press).

This was as much about a guy being indecisive as it was about him being loyal. Ultimately I think it's good for the league, but lets not act as though this was all benevolence from Dwight; there was plenty of self-interest involved here.

Yeah - like I said when he signed it - Dwight Howard is a tool.

Reaper16
07-01-2012, 04:52 PM
He's a fuckhead. A childish, impotent, fuckhead. All the talent in the world, blessed with physical tools unlike any other man, and he refuses to develop an offensive game. Good luck in wherever the fuck you land, you infantile shitbird.

chiefs1111
07-01-2012, 05:08 PM
He's a fuckhead. A childish, impotent, fuckhead. All the talent in the world, blessed with physical tools unlike any other man, and he refuses to develop an offensive game. Good luck in wherever the fuck you land, you infantile shitbird.

As a Magic fan like yourself I agree 100%

qabbaan
07-01-2012, 05:40 PM
He says he won't sign an extension anywhere but Brooklyn, and they really have nothing to offer in return. He is going to set Orlando back years and years. That loyalty pledge wasn't worth the paper it wasn't printed on.

Tuckdaddy
07-01-2012, 05:54 PM
Just watched his press conference and I had to come to the conclusion that his speech about loyalty was a great thing.

Its amazing that a player can be loyal to an owner/city/team and put aside money/power/selling out.

I commend him for his decision.

He basically just did the opposite of what Lebron James did.

Nothing wrong with what James did. He took less money to get a ring and that is unusual. Cavs had him for sevens years and did nothing to make the team better.

Pasta Giant Meatball
07-01-2012, 06:02 PM
He wants to take his talents to BK

BWillie
07-01-2012, 06:11 PM
This is way worse than anything LeBron did.

The Bad Guy
07-01-2012, 06:42 PM
This is way worse than anything LeBron did.

Absolutely is.

Guy is a complete bitch. Going to the NBAPA about them removing his committal letter?

More than likely the Lakers are going to offer Bynum for this punk and as a Laker fan, i want nothing to do with the fake Superman.

okcchief
07-01-2012, 07:50 PM
I've said all along this is worse than what LeBron did. That's when I thought he was just going to string it out for another year. Now he wants out again already? Why did he opt in then? What a fucktard....

mcaj22
07-01-2012, 08:48 PM
yea this dude sucks as a childish pro athlete. I hope this paints him as the biggest villain in the NBA and he comes out hated by the majority. Problem with this waffler is that when people start to dislike him he poops his pants and hides I.E. when he waffled back in march and signed the "loyalty" pledge nonsense just so he could go back to being painted as a "good dude" in terms of marketability.

ChiefsandO'sfan
07-02-2012, 03:39 PM
Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard

Source on Nets moving on from possibility of getting Dwight: "Dwight blew it in March'' when he waived opt-out clause.
Expand



7m Chris Broussard Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard

Nets, of course, would've preferred to get Dwight, but Magic refused to engage in trade talks. Source: 'They didn't want to dance with us.'



Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard

Sources confirm Hawks and Nets have agreed to terms on deal to send Joe Johnson to Nets. Deal contingent on Deron Williams staying w/Nets

BigMeatballDave
07-02-2012, 03:46 PM
Nothing wrong with what James did. He took less money to get a ring and that is unusual. Cavs had him for sevens years and did nothing to make the team better.

There is nothing wrong with that at all, I agree.

Where people have a problem with James, is how he went about announcing his decision.

Douchebaggery at its finest.

Fruit Ninja
07-02-2012, 03:52 PM
He's a ****head. A childish, impotent, ****head. All the talent in the world, blessed with physical tools unlike any other man, and he refuses to develop an offensive game. Good luck in wherever the **** you land, you infantile shitbird.

lol, he's not refused to develop an offensive game, he's put new moves in his offensive gameplan, the problem is, i dont think he's a great offensive player. He's just not that kind of a player. He's just a hard working physical freak of an athlete.

Just like some baseball players cant hit but are great playing say short stop or 2nd base. I dont think its from a lack of not wanting to be that player. Just look at when he shoots, it looks stiff and awkward

BIG_DADDY
07-02-2012, 03:52 PM
Absolutely is.

Guy is a complete bitch. Going to the NBAPA about them removing his committal letter?

More than likely the Lakers are going to offer Bynum for this punk and as a Laker fan, i want nothing to do with the fake Superman.

I hope not.

Fruit Ninja
07-02-2012, 03:56 PM
People like to bitch about Bynum being a head case, but this dude is worse. I understand its his choice and he has leverage in the end, but what he's doing may be worse then lebrons "Decision"

saphojunkie
07-02-2012, 03:59 PM
People like to bitch about Bynum being a head case, but this dude is worse. I understand its his choice and he has leverage in the end, but what he's doing may be worse then lebrons "Decision"

There was nothing wrong with Lebron's decision to go to the Heat. Anyone who thinks there was is either a Cleveland fan, a complete moron, or both. You can have a problem with the televised coverage, but not the decision to leave his team and sign elsewhere as a free agent.

He played through his rookie contract, played through his extension, and then signed elsewhere.

Get over it.

Fruit Ninja
07-02-2012, 04:09 PM
There was nothing wrong with Lebron's decision to go to the Heat. Anyone who thinks there was is either a Cleveland fan, a complete moron, or both. You can have a problem with the televised coverage, but not the decision to leave his team and sign elsewhere as a free agent.

He played through his rookie contract, played through his extension, and then signed elsewhere.

Get over it. I dont care where he ended up. He was a free agent and he can choose to do it anyway he wanted too, but the way he did it imo was just in bad taste. Its like he took a shit on his home state. Thats how i feel. Where he went was/is not a concern.

lcarus
07-02-2012, 04:12 PM
Howard is acting a lot worse than Lebron. Now it's come out that he got into an altercation with Jameer Nelson (an extreme nice guy and team player) at practice last season. They used to be best friends. He's become a real ass over the years. He used to be a great guy. At least I thought. Oh well. We lost Shaq. Lost out on Grant Hill due to injury. Lost Penny Hardaway to a major injury. Lost Tracy McGrady. Now Dwight. The next superstar is waiting in the wings somewhere. Hopefully we get one to stick around...

BigMeatballDave
07-02-2012, 04:15 PM
There was nothing wrong with Lebron's decision to go to the Heat. Anyone who thinks there was is either a Cleveland fan, a complete moron, or both. You can have a problem with the televised coverage, but not the decision to leave his team and sign elsewhere as a free agent.

He played through his rookie contract, played through his extension, and then signed elsewhere.

Get over it.Its the whole "Taking my talents to South Beach" announcement that piss people off.

Bewbies
07-02-2012, 04:55 PM
Haha, pick another team bitch. Joe Johnson just took your money...

vailpass
07-02-2012, 05:33 PM
There was nothing wrong with Lebron's decision to go to the Heat. Anyone who thinks there was is either a Cleveland fan, a complete moron, or both. You can have a problem with the televised coverage, but not the decision to leave his team and sign elsewhere as a free agent.

He played through his rookie contract, played through his extension, and then signed elsewhere.

Get over it.

Been living under a rock? Anyway who cares?
One thing NBA-related that is of interest though: saw a picture of the kid who was the #1 draft pick and now can't play in the Olympics.

HOLY SHIT! Are there no mirrors in the locker room? No teammates or buddies that care enough to tell him about that world-class unibrow sitting on top of his face?
Love of God.

Reaper16
07-02-2012, 06:03 PM
lol, he's not refused to develop an offensive game, he's put new moves in his offensive gameplan, the problem is, i dont think he's a great offensive player. He's just not that kind of a player. He's just a hard working physical freak of an athlete.

Just like some baseball players cant hit but are great playing say short stop or 2nd base. I dont think its from a lack of not wanting to be that player. Just look at when he shoots, it looks stiff and awkward

I don't give a shit about his shooting. I just wanted him, all these years, to develop some goddamn post moves.

He's a child. He thinks he's good enough. He's thought that for years.

lcarus
07-02-2012, 06:05 PM
I wish Dwight would just pull his head out of his ass and patch things up with Orlando. They cleaned house. They'll soon have a new coach, and they already have a new GM, new assistant GM, and some other new front office people. They still need another star player to pair him up with, but with patience, they can get it done.

We just REALLY need to focus on getting rid of the HORRIFIC contracts for over the hill and/or bad players. Ahem...JASON RICHARDSON, HEDO TURKOGLU, AND CHRIS DUHON! Looks like Jameer Nelson is going elsewhere. I always thought he was an underrated PG. When healthy, he can play at an all-star level. Then you have a pretty nice role player in JJ Redick. Ryan Anderson is still really young and really raw. He has a lot of potential if they resign him. Other than that, they just don't have any assets. Otis Smith, the former GM, really screwed them up. They had a nice team before with Marcin Gortat, Courtney Lee, Mickael Pietrus, Rafer Alston, and Brandon Bass.

Speaking of Marcin Gortat...boy I bet Orlando wishes they had held on to him. Even if not, they should have gotten more for him than what they got. He's a pretty good big man, and I'd feel a lot better about this situation if they still had him. Ah well, he was pretty clear that he wanted to be a starter and wanted out.

saphojunkie
07-02-2012, 06:14 PM
Its the whole "Taking my talents to South Beach" announcement that piss people off.

Gotcha - I thought that the concern was that he actually left.

Absolutely, I understand why people were put off by The Decision (capital D) but not by his decision (lower case).

Still, dude was 26 years old. God knows there are errors in judgement that I made at 26 I'm happy to not be despised for. The vitriol towards him for that was way over the top, in my opinion.

I think the whole thing is that he left, at the end of the day though. If he had announced that he was tempted to take his talents to South Beach, but wants to stay in Cleveland, then there's NO complaining.

If he then goes back to Cleveland and has a huge thing where he tells the fans he wants to win "not 1, not 2, not 3..." then people are still on board with him.

So, the complaint is not that he did those things; it's that he did them for Miami.

It's like "It's not that you cheated on me, but how could you cheat on me with him?!!"

mcaj22
07-03-2012, 04:41 AM
LOL:

Sources: The Nets & Magic are discussing a trade that would send Dwight Howard to Brooklyn for Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, Marshon Brooks...

(con't) and the Nets' first-round picks in 2012, 2014, 2016 & 2018....move would give Nets Big 3 of D-Will, Dwight & Joe Johnson



there is no other professional sport I can think of where you can be a star in that league, dictate where you want to go and then have one team trade 405538 guys and all their draft picks for the next 35 years to acquire you. Holy ****.

Fruit Ninja
07-03-2012, 04:55 AM
That's 3 Max contract players if Howard is traded I doubt d will will s the numbers may not work. Then again one of the richest dudes in the world owns the team lol

mcaj22
07-03-2012, 05:20 AM
That's 3 Max contract players if Howard is traded I doubt d will will s the numbers may not work. Then again one of the richest dudes in the world owns the team lol


it will be exactly like the make up of the Heat contracts wise (3 guys with hefty contracts and then a bunch of filler) with an owner paying well over the luxury tax every year, taking a loss in profit, just to win games for fun.

lcarus
07-03-2012, 10:21 AM
I can't believe the Magic are gonna cave and trade him to the Nets. I know he isn't giving them many options, but god what an asshole. I hate to think he is gonna get exactly what he wants and leave us high and dry with fucking shitty Nets players and shitty late first round picks.

BIG_DADDY
07-03-2012, 12:10 PM
I can't believe the Magic are gonna cave and trade him to the Nets. I know he isn't giving them many options, but god what an asshole. I hate to think he is gonna get exactly what he wants and leave us high and dry with ****ing shitty Nets players and shitty late first round picks.

Well at least u r getting a chance to make a trade which is more than LeQueef gave Cleveland.

The Bad Guy
07-03-2012, 12:15 PM
I can't believe the Magic are gonna cave and trade him to the Nets. I know he isn't giving them many options, but god what an asshole. I hate to think he is gonna get exactly what he wants and leave us high and dry with ****ing shitty Nets players and shitty late first round picks.

I don't think there's any chance he ends up in New Jersey. Brooks, Lopez and Humphries aren't getting Orlando anywhere.

lcarus
07-03-2012, 01:00 PM
Well at least u r getting a chance to make a trade which is more than LeQueef gave Cleveland.

Yeah but I'd almost rather be cellar dwellers for a couple years and rebuild through the draft than acquire some mid-level players and become a perennial 8 seed.

Mr. Laz
07-03-2012, 01:07 PM
Sources: The Nets & Magic are discussing a trade that would send Dwight Howard to Brooklyn for Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, Marshon Brooks and the Nets' first-round picks in 2012, 2014, 2016 & 2018....move would give Nets Big 3 of D-Will, Dwight & Joe Johnson

I think at this point if you're Orlando you take it.

then you hope the Howard's back breaks and you get high 1st rounders out of it.



apparently the teams are looking to add a 3rd team into the mix ... probably to help free up some cap space in the deal

The Bad Guy
07-03-2012, 01:30 PM
I think at this point if you're Orlando you take it.

then you hope the Howard's back breaks and you get high 1st rounders out of it.



apparently the teams are looking to add a 3rd team into the mix ... probably to help free up some cap space in the deal

Andrew Bynum and a few back end first rounders is a better option than trading for a stat compiler/no defense/ player in Lopez, Brooks and then taking on more money in a Khardashian swap.

lcarus
07-03-2012, 01:39 PM
Andrew Bynum and a few back end first rounders is a better option than trading for a stat compiler/no defense/ player in Lopez, Brooks and then taking on more money in a Khardashian swap.

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, if teams won't offer an all-star player in return, then fuck em. Since Bynum is, I'd totally hear that offer.

vailpass
07-03-2012, 01:40 PM
I think at this point if you're Orlando you take it.

then you hope the Howard's back breaks and you get high 1st rounders out of it.



apparently the teams are looking to add a 3rd team into the mix ... probably to help free up some cap space in the deal

What are Orlando's options? Get something or get nothing?

lcarus
07-03-2012, 01:44 PM
What are Orlando's options? Get something or get nothing?

Basically yeah. Only the "something" that they could get in return might as well be nothing. Shit players with shit contracts and late late first round picks.

vailpass
07-03-2012, 01:55 PM
Basically yeah. Only the "something" that they could get in return might as well be nothing. Shit players with shit contracts and late late first round picks.

Sorry to see it. Stars being able to pick where they will align isn't always a good thing for the NBA IMHO.

Mr. Laz
07-03-2012, 02:00 PM
Andrew Bynum and a few back end first rounders is a better option than trading for a stat compiler/no defense/ player in Lopez, Brooks and then taking on more money in a Khardashian swap.
ya but do you think Buss is going to trade 'his' guy

lcarus
07-03-2012, 02:06 PM
Sorry to see it. Stars being able to pick where they will align isn't always a good thing for the NBA IMHO.

Yep. I thought Dwight had it ok in Orlando. They've gotten close to a title in the past. Yeah, they need another really good piece to even think about competing with Miami in the East, but if he could have waited it out another season they could have gotten something done. Oh well. He wants Brooklyn and the big lights and his own "big 3". Gotta move on I guess. I'll still be a Magic fan anyway. Fuck em.

vailpass
07-03-2012, 02:09 PM
Yep. I thought Dwight had it ok in Orlando. They've gotten close to a title in the past. Yeah, they need another really good piece to even think about competing with Miami in the East, but if he could have waited it out another season they could have gotten something done. Oh well. He wants Brooklyn and the big lights and his own "big 3". Gotta move on I guess. I'll still be a Magic fan anyway. **** em.

As a fan it's natural you would feel that way.
I don't blame him one bit for going bright lights big city. No respect for how he's doing it. Wonder if the league can address this at the next negotiations?

mcaj22
07-03-2012, 02:37 PM
maybe im just dumb but I think Marshon Brooks has some potential to be good. I've been following him since college since I'm a Big East fan and he's not that bad at all. But maybe I'm not some NBA talent evaluation guru, so what do I know.

mcaj22
07-03-2012, 02:38 PM
As a fan it's natural you would feel that way.
I don't blame him one bit for going bright lights big city. No respect for how he's doing it. Wonder if the league can address this at the next negotiations?

Stern doesnt care now that he was able to draft the cornerstone players for his Hornets and clear fucking 42 million in cap space to add even more talent next offseason

JASONSAUTO
07-03-2012, 02:49 PM
Well at least u r getting a chance to make a trade which is more than LeQueef gave Cleveland.

i'm pretty sure he did give them multiple opportunities to trade him, they knew he would be a FA.

and i'm also pretty sure they got draft picks when he signed with miami, sign and trade

EDIT: yep i was right.

lcarus
07-03-2012, 03:07 PM
maybe im just dumb but I think Marshon Brooks has some potential to be good. I've been following him since college since I'm a Big East fan and he's not that bad at all. But maybe I'm not some NBA talent evaluation guru, so what do I know.

I agree about Brooks. I think he could be good. It's just....it's tough because we're giving up Dwight Howard. BUT - if that NJ trade did go down like the media has proposed - Marshon Brooks would be the player I would be the most excited about as a Magic fan. No doubt.

whoman69
07-03-2012, 03:12 PM
I don't think there's any chance he ends up in New Jersey. Brooks, Lopez and Humphries aren't getting Orlando anywhere.

Its Brooks, Lopez and Humphries plus 3 firsts.

whoman69
07-03-2012, 03:13 PM
At what point does a player have to continue to show loyalty to a team that will not put the parts around him to contend for a championship?

lcarus
07-03-2012, 03:16 PM
At what point does a player have to continue to show loyalty to a team that will not put the parts around him to contend for a championship?

They made it to an NBA Finals and an Eastern Conf Finals. Is that not contending? Yeah the GM made a couple bad moves that didn't pan out, but in another year a couple of those shitty contracts come off the books and they could make a move for a Chris Paul or wing scorer.

okcchief
07-03-2012, 03:16 PM
The only problem with the Nets offer is those picks are going to low first round if they have Johnson, Wallace, Williams, and Howard. They will be a top team in the East and will give Miami some serious matchup problems IMO.

lcarus
07-03-2012, 03:29 PM
The only problem with the Nets offer is those picks are going to low first round if they have Johnson, Wallace, Williams, and Howard. They will be a top team in the East and will give Miami some serious matchup problems IMO.

Yeah those picks will be 26th at best probably.

Fruit Ninja
07-03-2012, 03:49 PM
it will be exactly like the make up of the Heat contracts wise (3 guys with hefty contracts and then a bunch of filler) with an owner paying well over the luxury tax every year, taking a loss in profit, just to win games for fun.
Hell, i wouldnt put it passed the owner to say ill just give you money on the side. Put some money in a bank somewhere in europe or something then later Williams or Howards just withdrawl it, who the hell would ever know? lol

mcaj22
07-03-2012, 04:03 PM
they were talking about that on ESPN this morning that Russian dude has more money than he knows what do with and is one of the richest guys in the world. Add in Jay-Z as share owner or whatever and there is so much money backing the Nets it doesnt matter how much they throw at these guys.

The biggest losers in all of this will be the Knicks. Their market will suffer, and the Knicks wont be able to hang with all the hype and power of this potential Nets squad. Die hard Knicks fans will be very angry their organization shit the bed and couldnt do a structure like the Nets are trying to do.

ChiefsandO'sfan
07-03-2012, 05:16 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

Deron Williams has reached agreement on a 5 year, $100 million extension with Brooklyn, a league source tells Y! Sports.


That's alot of coin

CaliforniaChief
07-03-2012, 05:18 PM
Will the Nets have any space under the cap for Superman?

Fruit Ninja
07-03-2012, 05:27 PM
they were talking about that on ESPN this morning that Russian dude has more money than he knows what do with and is one of the richest guys in the world. Add in Jay-Z as share owner or whatever and there is so much money backing the Nets it doesnt matter how much they throw at these guys.

The biggest losers in all of this will be the Knicks. Their market will suffer, and the Knicks wont be able to hang with all the hype and power of this potential Nets squad. Die hard Knicks fans will be very angry their organization shit the bed and couldnt do a structure like the Nets are trying to do.

Good. The Knicks havent done shit in so long, its their own fault. In a big time city like New York, it shouldnt be all that difficult to put together a winning team. I dont feel sorry for their fans at all. They got the fucking Yankee's and Giants. lol They are ok.

The Bad Guy
07-03-2012, 05:41 PM
Will the Nets have any space under the cap for Superman?

Not to sign there as a free agent.

Before they traded for Joe Johnson they did.

The Bad Guy
07-03-2012, 05:43 PM
Its Brooks, Lopez and Humphries plus 3 firsts.

And those firsts are all going to be in the 27 range.

The Magic have to sell tickets. You can't make Brook Lopez or Marshon Brooks the face of the franchise.

The Lakers offer will likely include multiple picks and a much better player in Bynum, albeit a head case. However, I would take that headcase long before I'd take soft Lopez.

The Bad Guy
07-03-2012, 05:44 PM
ya but do you think Buss is going to trade 'his' guy

Valid point. I hate Jim Buss so much as a Laker fan, but the Lakers did offer Bynum at the trade deadline last year for Howard.

Fruit Ninja
07-03-2012, 05:45 PM
And those firsts are all going to be in the 27 range.

The Magic have to sell tickets. You can't make Brook Lopez or Marshon Brooks the face of the franchise.

The Lakers offer will likely include multiple picks and a much better player in Bynum, albeit a head case. However, I would take that headcase long before I'd take soft Lopez.

Magic are ****ed. They may have to take a deal that is shit. If they dont, they risk getting absolutely nothing for him. Going into next year no Dwight and no lottery pick is going to suck then next years ticket sales will be worse then this years. Remember this is the Lakers management we are talking about not the Chiefs. lol

I dont htink the Lakers touch Howard unless he agrees' to a contract. Mitch isnt stupid enough to just deal for him and him being a free agent next year.

The Bad Guy
07-03-2012, 05:48 PM
Magic are ****ed. They may have to take a deal that is shit. If they dont, they risk getting absolutely nothing for him. Going into next year no Dwight and no lottery pick is going to suck then next years ticket sales will be worse then this years. Remember this is the Lakers management we are talking about not the Chiefs. lol

I dont htink the Lakers touch Howard unless he agrees' to a contract. Mitch isnt stupid enough to just deal for him and him being a free agent next year.

I agree Mitch is great, but I think you have to make the trade now extension or not. You have about 6 months to sell him on the city, the opportunities, the doubling of his adidas deal if he's in LA, and playing with Kobe.

If in February, he's still not convinced, traded him and you'll still get a pretty attractive package in return.

I have a lot of doubts that Bynum stays next year, so it's basically going to be the same situation.

Fruit Ninja
07-03-2012, 05:52 PM
I agree Mitch is great, but I think you have to make the trade now extension or not. You have about 6 months to sell him on the city, the opportunities, the doubling of his adidas deal if he's in LA, and playing with Kobe.

If in February, he's still not convinced, traded him and you'll still get a pretty attractive package in return.

I have a lot of doubts that Bynum stays next year, so it's basically going to be the same situation.

If they lose Bynum, they still have draft picks and players. They lose out on dwight they have NO draft picks for a few years, cause im guessing Dwight will require a few first rounders. Lets nevermind he's coming off a back surgery (never good) and he may not even be able to start the season. Thats some serious poker to play, all in and if it doesnt work, its alot of front office people losing their jobs.

whoman69
07-03-2012, 07:24 PM
They made it to an NBA Finals and an Eastern Conf Finals. Is that not contending? Yeah the GM made a couple bad moves that didn't pan out, but in another year a couple of those shitty contracts come off the books and they could make a move for a Chris Paul or wing scorer.

So LaBron should have stayed in Cleveland, eventually they might have won. They just didn't want to spend the money.

ChiefsandO'sfan
07-08-2012, 05:47 PM
Jarrod N Rudolph ‏@JRudolphSports

Just spoke with a source that tells me that Billy King is "very close" to getting Dwight Howard. And deal could be completed "very soon."


Looks like he is gonna get his way.

DJ's left nut
07-08-2012, 05:56 PM
Jarrod N Rudolph ‏@JRudolphSports

Just spoke with a source that tells me that Billy King is "very close" to getting Dwight Howard. And deal could be completed "very soon."


Looks like he is gonna get his way.

Seems like David Stern should veto that one as well, right?

Still absolutely livid at the !@#$ing NBA for that Chris Paul bullshit.

chiefzilla1501
07-08-2012, 06:34 PM
Good. The Knicks havent done shit in so long, its their own fault. In a big time city like New York, it shouldnt be all that difficult to put together a winning team. I dont feel sorry for their fans at all. They got the ****ing Yankee's and Giants. lol They are ok.

I just don't see that team winning with Melo. The game has moved beyond ball hogs like that who stand and hold the ball to set up his own shot.

chiefzilla1501
07-08-2012, 06:35 PM
Just watched his press conference and I had to come to the conclusion that his speech about loyalty was a great thing.

Its amazing that a player can be loyal to an owner/city/team and put aside money/power/selling out.

I commend him for his decision.

He basically just did the opposite of what Lebron James did.

I hate LeBron more than anyone here.
I hate Dwight Howard even more. That says a lot.

NJChiefsFan
07-08-2012, 08:58 PM
Jarrod N Rudolph ‏@JRudolphSports

Just spoke with a source that tells me that Billy King is "very close" to getting Dwight Howard. And deal could be completed "very soon."


Looks like he is gonna get his way.

I have been trying to see how they could get him and it didn't look very good. Especially with the JJ and Wallace contracts. Even without Howard, if they resign Lopez, Nets have a pretty solid team. Brooks is gonna be a good shooting guard I think.

The Bad Guy
07-08-2012, 09:16 PM
Seems like David Stern should veto that one as well, right?

Still absolutely livid at the !@#$ing NBA for that Chris Paul bullshit.

The Nets could give me 4 draft picks and Brook Lopez and I don't think that deal is anywhere close to Bynum when you consider that they are going to be picks in the late 20s.

I think a main hangup for the Magic is that Bynum won't agree to an extension right now.

Lopez is a dogshit compiler on bad teams.

NJChiefsFan
07-08-2012, 09:20 PM
The Nets could give me 4 draft picks and Brook Lopez and I don't think that deal is anywhere close to Bynum when you consider that they are going to be picks in the late 20s.

I think a main hangup for the Magic is that Bynum won't agree to an extension right now.

Lopez is a dogshit compiler on bad teams.

I agree with your break down of the trades, not with your breakdown of Lopez. Guy is a pretty good player. Good FT, decent shooter, athletic, with good IQ. I think a full year with DW last year would have shown that. Not saying he is anything near Bynum.

The Bad Guy
07-08-2012, 09:43 PM
I agree with your break down of the trades, not with your breakdown of Lopez. Guy is a pretty good player. Good FT, decent shooter, athletic, with good IQ. I think a full year with DW last year would have shown that. Not saying he is anything near Bynum.

He's a god awful rebounder for his size, and he plays no defense at all.

He's a good point scoring big, but that's it. He is lazy as hell on the block.

Brook Lopez will never be on a winning team unless he's the 3rd or 4th option. If he's the centerpiece, the Magic should just prepare for a top 5 pick for the next 4 years.

NJChiefsFan
07-09-2012, 12:09 AM
He's a god awful rebounder for his size, and he plays no defense at all.

He's a good point scoring big, but that's it. He is lazy as hell on the block.

Brook Lopez will never be on a winning team unless he's the 3rd or 4th option. If he's the centerpiece, the Magic should just prepare for a top 5 pick for the next 4 years.

Well again I agree that Brook is never going to be a number 2 guy. I do think his rebounding was hurt in large part due to Humphries. The year Humphries wasn't ripping down 15 boards a game Lopez did damn well on the boards. The Nets basically had Humphries doing all the work. Having a messed up ankle for two years doesn't help your rebounding either.

Again, not saying the Magic should take Lopez. Just saying I don't think he is as bad as you are making him out to be.

BossChief
07-09-2012, 12:36 AM
They would get a better return with Bynum.

In the NBA, I'd rather take my chances with 2-3 guys that are the quality of Bynum and fill the rest of my roster with role players that a bunch of late first rounders. Especially with his age.

Howard for Bynum just makes too much sense.

NJChiefsFan
07-09-2012, 12:38 AM
They would get a better return with Bynum.
.

I don't think that can be debated. I am certainly not debating it. Its not really up to ORL though. Not unless they can convince LA to risk not resigning Howard or that LA can convince Howard to a sign-and-trade.

mcaj22
07-09-2012, 12:43 AM
i heard there is a couple moving parts to this Howard to NJ

Magic in full rebuild apparently they called up Stern's Hornets for a Ryan Anderson for Gustavo Ayon swap. So there's one big in rebuild mode to replace Howard.

Then King Humphries goes to the Cavs in a sign and trade and Lopez and picks go to the Magic.

lol. Long story short the Magic will be terrible next season.

BossChief
07-09-2012, 01:06 AM
I don't think that can be debated. I am certainly not debating it. Its not really up to ORL though. Not unless they can convince LA to risk not resigning Howard or that LA can convince Howard to a sign-and-trade.

Howard is one dumb motherfucker if he thinks he can make more combined money anywhere outside of LA.

He could equal his contract amount in endorsements and other business ventures in LA while also having a good chance at a title every year.

I can't believe there isn't more buzz about Howard to LA.

It just screams like a deal that should be made.

Fruit Ninja
07-09-2012, 01:08 AM
I'm glad hes not coming ti LA. I'm worried about his back. Its not a gamble I like right now.

BossChief
07-09-2012, 01:23 AM
I'm glad hes not coming ti LA. I'm worried about his back. Its not a gamble I like right now.

Bynum has big time injury issues, too.

Personally, I think Howard is a much better player, though.

chiefzilla1501
07-09-2012, 01:35 AM
i heard there is a couple moving parts to this Howard to NJ

Magic in full rebuild apparently they called up Stern's Hornets for a Ryan Anderson for Gustavo Ayon swap. So there's one big in rebuild mode to replace Howard.

Then King Humphries goes to the Cavs in a sign and trade and Lopez and picks go to the Magic.

lol. Long story short the Magic will be terrible next season.

Yup. The deal makes too much sense for all parties. New Jersey, for obvious reasons plus ability to dump Humphries' contract. Orlando so they can move on and claim they have a replacement in Lopez. Cleveland is a little more subtle. Getting Humphries allows them to trade Varejao. They're pretty much the same player so essentially the Cavs could stay the same, yet net two extra first round picks (one pick for Varejao, and Marshon Brooks from the Nets). That's pretty crazy. And even with Humphries' contract, the Cavs will be $35M under the cap in 2013 with the only payroll concern being Kyrie being re-signed by 2015/16.

chiefzilla1501
07-09-2012, 01:45 AM
Howard is one dumb mother****er if he thinks he can make more combined money anywhere outside of LA.

He could equal his contract amount in endorsements and other business ventures in LA while also having a good chance at a title every year.

I can't believe there isn't more buzz about Howard to LA.

It just screams like a deal that should be made.

I think Brooklyn + proximity to New York + Jay-Z means that Howard will do fine in terms of money and star power. Not to mention that the Knicks suck and probably will for a while.

BossChief
07-09-2012, 01:51 AM
What's in nj for Howard?

Less money overall and almost no chance at a title.

In LA?

Title chase the next 3 years and lots of tv money.

He would also mesh well as the next super talented big with a marketable smile.

Ala Shaquille.

chiefzilla1501
07-09-2012, 02:09 AM
What's in nj for Howard?

Less money overall and almost no chance at a title.

In LA?

Title chase the next 3 years and lots of tv money.

He would also mesh well as the next super talented big with a marketable smile.

Ala Shaquille.

The Nets have an insanely rich owner who could care less about the luxury tax. Honestly, it seems like the Nets are ready to spend out their ears while the Lakers seem like they're worried about the luxury tax. In terms of marketability, it won't hurt Howard to play in a Brooklyn market or for Jay-Z, who will undoubtedly turn Howard into a superstar. And I don't think it's accurate to say NJ won't win a championship. In fact, executives are publicly saying they don't want to be a 3rd party in this deal only because they worry about Brooklyn becoming too powerful. Howard, Deron Williams, Joe Johnson with Gerald Wallace in the starting lineup is pretty good, especially considering that you might have arguably the best Point Guard and Center in the game on the same starting lineup.

It's hard to believe there's a situation that could rival LA's, but Brooklyn could be that place. And frankly, I think there are a lot of New Yorkers who are really going to identify with that team. Could become a huge market.

mcaj22
07-09-2012, 02:32 AM
Deron, Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace and Howard has a higher window of opportunity for the next 5-6 years than the Lakers 1-2 year window with their 1000 year old point guard and the face of their franchise having more mileage than seattle slew

mcaj22
07-09-2012, 02:33 AM
The Nets have an insanely rich owner who could care less about the luxury tax. Honestly, it seems like the Nets are ready to spend out their ears while the Lakers seem like they're worried about the luxury tax. In terms of marketability, it won't hurt Howard to play in a Brooklyn market or for Jay-Z, who will undoubtedly turn Howard into a superstar. And I don't think it's accurate to say NJ won't win a championship. In fact, executives are publicly saying they don't want to be a 3rd party in this deal only because they worry about Brooklyn becoming too powerful. Howard, Deron Williams, Joe Johnson with Gerald Wallace in the starting lineup is pretty good, especially considering that you might have arguably the best Point Guard and Center in the game on the same starting lineup.

It's hard to believe there's a situation that could rival LA's, but Brooklyn could be that place. And frankly, I think there are a lot of New Yorkers who are really going to identify with that team. Could become a huge market.


those New Yorkers being disgruntled Knicks fans that jump trains to a new team. lol

chiefzilla1501
07-09-2012, 02:45 AM
those New Yorkers being disgruntled Knicks fans that jump trains to a new team. lol

Yup. I think that's part of it. But I also think the concept of a Brooklyn team co-owned by a hip hop mogul is pretty genius. There aren't many teams like the Nets where you feel like the brand comes from the streets. If the Lakers and Knicks are Hollywood, then Brooklyn is street ball and hip hop. I think you'll get a few Knick converts, quite a lot of tri-staters who didn't before identify with a team, and a lot of people outside of those areas who want to identify with a hip hop team.

Fruit Ninja
07-09-2012, 03:04 AM
Bynum has big time injury issues, too.

Personally, I think Howard is a much better player, though.

I do too but Bynums injuries were freak accidents. Kobe and Lamar rolled on his knee. Howards is jusr from wear and tear. Bynum played a full season making big strides as a player after his injuries. Howard is all unknown right now.

NJChiefsFan
07-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Howard is one dumb mother****er if he thinks he can make more combined money anywhere outside of LA.

He could equal his contract amount in endorsements and other business ventures in LA while also having a good chance at a title every year.

I can't believe there isn't more buzz about Howard to LA.

It just screams like a deal that should be made.

It seems he really loves DW. His shoe deal would increase a ton in Brooklyn as well I was reading. Its not like he would be going to Maine. Brooklyn and NYC has its fair share of endorsements.

lcarus
07-09-2012, 02:52 PM
I've heard Bynum would like to play for Orlando. So the best bet is we make that deal. Looking more and more like the shitty Nets deal gets done though...

chiefzilla1501
07-09-2012, 03:42 PM
I've heard Bynum would like to play for Orlando. So the best bet is we make that deal. Looking more and more like the shitty Nets deal gets done though...

Where'd you hear that? Because I think Orlando would love to make that trade. Last I heard, the reason that deal is getting killed is because Howard doesn't want to sign next year with Orlando when he becomes a free agent. I've heard Cleveland and Dallas are his top 2.

Reaper16
07-09-2012, 04:48 PM
I've heard Bynum would like to play for Orlando. So the best bet is we make that deal. Looking more and more like the shitty Nets deal gets done though...

Where'd you hear that? Because I think Orlando would love to make that trade. Last I heard, the reason that deal is getting killed is because Howard doesn't want to sign next year with Orlando when he becomes a free agent. I've heard Cleveland and Dallas are his top 2.

The Magic would greatly prefer to get Bynum, but Bynum won't agree to sign an extension with Orlando.

booger
07-15-2012, 11:45 PM
Looks like he'll be dealt sooner rather than later with the Houston speculation late last week.

Brian Shaw and Michael Malone pulled out of Orlando's HC search sunday with former Jayhawk and current spurs asst. Jacques Vaughn the front runner with Jeff Hornacek, Michael Curry, and Lindsey Hunter in the mix as well. Very young and inexperienced list with the exception of Curry. Gonna be a young inexperienced roster too.

ChiefsandO'sfan
07-16-2012, 01:17 PM
Jordan Schultz ‏@206Child

A source close to Dwight Howard tells me that Dwight is fully prepared to sit out the entire 2012-13 season in Orlando.

MIAdragon
07-16-2012, 01:19 PM
Jordan Schultz ‏@206Child

A source close to Dwight Howard tells me that Dwight is fully prepared to sit out the entire 2012-13 season in Orlando.

What a piece of shit. Hope he blows both knees out and never plays again.

DJ's left nut
07-16-2012, 01:22 PM
The Nets have an insanely rich owner who could care less about the luxury tax. Honestly, it seems like the Nets are ready to spend out their ears while the Lakers seem like they're worried about the luxury tax. In terms of marketability, it won't hurt Howard to play in a Brooklyn market or for Jay-Z, who will undoubtedly turn Howard into a superstar. And I don't think it's accurate to say NJ won't win a championship. In fact, executives are publicly saying they don't want to be a 3rd party in this deal only because they worry about Brooklyn becoming too powerful. Howard, Deron Williams, Joe Johnson with Gerald Wallace in the starting lineup is pretty good, especially considering that you might have arguably the best Point Guard and Center in the game on the same starting lineup.

It's hard to believe there's a situation that could rival LA's, but Brooklyn could be that place. And frankly, I think there are a lot of New Yorkers who are really going to identify with that team. Could become a huge market.

Luxury tax or no, the Nets simply can't sign him.

They're over the cap, so the only FAs they can sign are guys that will take the veterans minimum or the mid-level exception (or a handful of other tiny little payroll slots). In the end, Howard can't sign in Brooklyn as a free agent and he's been such a shit about this whole process that the Magic aren't inclined to put him there through a sign/trade.

His only chance at all to get into Brooklyn now is to get traded to Houston/LA and hope that one of those 2 won't call his bluff. LA would, they'll just let him walk and see where he ends up. Houston might not and would be willing to trade him to NJ after next season in order to recover an asset or two (i.e. Brook Lopez and maybe dump another expiring contract).

Ultimately the luxury tax may prove to be irrelevant in this thing. I have no doubt that Prokorov would pay it, but the Nets need a willing trade partner and with Howard being the world's largest petulant bright right now, the Nets may not find anyone willing to oblige them.

Sofa King
07-16-2012, 01:23 PM
What a piece of shit. Hope he blows both knees out and never plays again.

LMAO

You know nothing of his situation, only what the media thinks you should know.

Reaper16
07-16-2012, 02:21 PM
LMAO

You know nothing of his situation, only what the media thinks you should know.

Oh? What isn't being reported?

MIAdragon
07-16-2012, 02:23 PM
Oh? What isn't being reported?

I must have missed something. :shrug:

Fruit Ninja
07-16-2012, 04:23 PM
What a piece of shit. Hope he blows both knees out and never plays again.

He wasnt going to be ready when the season starts anyways. I dont know how deep into it, but like reports said, his back is healing very slowly.

I just do NOT want him on the Lakers.

MIAdragon
07-16-2012, 04:28 PM
He wasnt going to be ready when the season starts anyways. I dont know how deep into it, but like reports said, his back is healing very slowly.

I just do NOT want him on the Lakers.


Suuuure it is, I bet it would "magically" heal if he was traded to the Nets.

Reaper16
07-16-2012, 04:33 PM
I've never been convinced that he even needed back surgery.

Fruit Ninja
07-16-2012, 04:57 PM
Suuuure it is, I bet it would "magically" heal if he was traded to the Nets.

What he really wants to do, is not sign a contract anywhere imo. Extentions only give 3 years. A new contract can be for 5 years. Its in his best interest (money wise) to just hope he doesnt get traded.

I understand what he's doign and why he's doing it, im ok with that, its just that it gets a little annoying hearing it on the news and on every damned website. lol

I just know they said he may not be ready to start the season before the surgery, since it is a back surgery. I rather see the dude play a year before i wanted him on a team i root for.

lcarus
07-16-2012, 06:26 PM
What he really wants to do, is not sign a contract anywhere imo. Extentions only give 3 years. A new contract can be for 5 years. Its in his best interest (money wise) to just hope he doesnt get traded.

I understand what he's doign and why he's doing it, im ok with that, its just that it gets a little annoying hearing it on the news and on every damned website. lol

I just know they said he may not be ready to start the season before the surgery, since it is a back surgery. I rather see the dude play a year before i wanted him on a team i root for.

I'd actually be ok with Dwight leaving my team - IF he just would have kept his mouth shut and left as a free agent. Once he opted in for an extra year in Orl, and gave a speech about loyalty an being "the hero that Orlando deserved", it rubs me the wrong way that right after he did that he demanded a trade. AND, demanded a trade to only one team, stating that he wont sign with anyone else. That kinda screws Orlando big time. Why didnt he just opt out in March? He also made Orlando fire a pretty good coach in hopes that Howard might decide to stay as a result.

Fruit Ninja
07-16-2012, 06:29 PM
I've never been convinced that he even needed back surgery.

lol, so he got the surgery just to get one because he wanted out? ughh.. he could have done that WITHOUT having to get his back cut up. lol