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RockChalk
03-21-2012, 10:50 AM
Per Adam Schefter via Twitter.

Also, Mickey Loomis suspended 8 games and fined $500K. Saints team fined $500K. Lose 2nd round pick in 2012 and 2013.

Assistant coach Joe Vitt suspended 6 games and fined $100K

Per Chris Mortensen via Twitter.

Gregg Williams suspended indefinitely. At the very least will miss 2012 season with Rams

Will link when a story pops up

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827c0dd9/article/nfl-suspends-saints-coach-payton-for-one-year-without-pay?module=HP11_breaking_news

http://deadspin.com/5895249/sean-payton-suspended-one-year-saints-lose-draft-picks-in-bounty-punishment

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7718136/sean-payton-new-orleans-saints-banned-one-year-bounties

Cave Johnson
03-21-2012, 10:50 AM
Gregggg Williams suspended for life!!!!

BigMeatballDave
03-21-2012, 10:50 AM
Whoa

Mr_Tomahawk
03-21-2012, 10:50 AM
Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter Close
Sean Payton suspended one year. Mickey Loomis 8 game and $500,000 fine. Saints fined $500,000 and a second round pick in 2012 and 2013.

Mr. Laz
03-21-2012, 10:50 AM
ouch

Mile High Mania
03-21-2012, 10:50 AM
WOW

Demonpenz
03-21-2012, 10:51 AM
Should have gotten more if Pete Rose got banned for gambling

DJ's left nut
03-21-2012, 10:51 AM
Holy shit.

That's unbelievable.

Y'know, the Saints might be wise to dangle Brees afterall. A rebuild may be in order.

L.A. Chieffan
03-21-2012, 10:51 AM
ridiculous. just put some skirts on em and make sure they bring their binkys

Guru
03-21-2012, 10:52 AM
HOLY CRAP

loochy
03-21-2012, 10:52 AM
wow, this is stupid.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 10:53 AM
What the hell does suspending a GM really do?

Can't attend games? Can't work for 8 weeks? If it's in-season (assuming it is since it's 8 games), what the hell does a GM really do anyways? Assuming that an assistant GM will monitor waivers/trades, with "assistance" from Loomis

J Diddy
03-21-2012, 10:53 AM
Gregggg Williams suspended for life!!!!

Is this true?

Frazod
03-21-2012, 10:53 AM
Wow.

How long did Belicheat get suspended for? Somebody refresh my memory.

Sofa King
03-21-2012, 10:53 AM
Jesus. That's way way too much.

KurtCobain
03-21-2012, 10:54 AM
Holy fucking shit.

L.A. Chieffan
03-21-2012, 10:54 AM
two 2nd rounders gone

Brock
03-21-2012, 10:54 AM
Wow.

How long did Belicheat get suspended for? Somebody refresh my memory.

0 games.

vailpass
03-21-2012, 10:54 AM
Bad break for Payton. They used him to make an example and a deterrent so they went way overboard on his penalty.

mr. tegu
03-21-2012, 10:54 AM
Suddenly our schedule just got slightly easier.

|Zach|
03-21-2012, 10:54 AM
Pick loss is not as drastic as I thought but suspensions are much more drastic than I thought.

Nightfyre
03-21-2012, 10:55 AM
So: If Washington loses their 2012 second, does that invalidate their trade with the Rams?

suds79
03-21-2012, 10:55 AM
awesome

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 10:55 AM
Is this true?

NO

I updated the OP. Suspended indefinitely

Ceej
03-21-2012, 10:55 AM
Turner Gill for interim?!?!

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 10:55 AM
Holy cow. That seems like way too much. What they did was sleazy, but that seems particularly strong. Especially when the Broncos got just a slap on the wrist for violating salary cap rules, which in my opinion is far worse for the game.

J Diddy
03-21-2012, 10:56 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827c0dd9/article/nfl-suspends-saints-coach-payton-for-one-year-without-pay?module=HP11_breaking_news

NFL.com article

scho63
03-21-2012, 10:57 AM
Holy cow-this is past severe!

mr. tegu
03-21-2012, 10:57 AM
So: If Washington loses their 2012 second, does that invalidate their trade with the Rams?

I hope so! RGIII!

Chiefnj2
03-21-2012, 10:57 AM
Offer 2 firsts and 2 seconds for Brees.

Molitoth
03-21-2012, 10:57 AM
Was the Super Bowl win worth the punishment?

Hell Yes. #40 f*cking years

vailpass
03-21-2012, 10:58 AM
Wonder if they are dropping the hammer to show they aren't bullshitting but might reduce on appeal?

Detoxing
03-21-2012, 10:58 AM
DAMN GINA!

bevischief
03-21-2012, 10:58 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/goodell-lowers-boom-on-the-saints/

Detoxing
03-21-2012, 10:58 AM
Was the Super Bowl win worth the punishment?

Hell Yes. #40 f*cking years

and this.

OnTheWarpath58
03-21-2012, 10:58 AM
Ridiculous.

saphojunkie
03-21-2012, 10:59 AM
WE'LL GIVE YOU ROMEO CRENNEL AND OUR WHOLE DRAFT FOR BREES.

Cave Johnson
03-21-2012, 10:59 AM
Holy shit.

That's unbelievable.

Y'know, the Saints might be wise to dangle Brees afterall. A rebuild may be in order.

I'd do the RG3 deal for Breesus. Maybe they'd also take a pro bowl QB instead of a 2nd. ;)

Is this true?

Not even remotely.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:00 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827c0dd9/article/nfl-suspends-saints-coach-payton-for-one-year-without-pay?module=HP11_breaking_news

NFL.com article

Thanks. Updated OP

Micjones
03-21-2012, 11:00 AM
Whiskey...
Tango...
Foxtrot...

bevischief
03-21-2012, 11:00 AM
Also, G.M. Mickey Loomis has been suspended for eight games.

kysirsoze
03-21-2012, 11:00 AM
Wonder if they are dropping the hammer to show they aren't bullshitting but might reduce on appeal?

I'm betting this.

kysirsoze
03-21-2012, 11:01 AM
Holy cow. That seems like way too much. What they did was sleazy, but that seems particularly strong. Especially when the Broncos got just a slap on the wrist for violating salary cap rules, which in my opinion is far worse for the game.

Well technically this violates salary cap rules as well....


But, seriously. Fuck the Broncos.

tk13
03-21-2012, 11:01 AM
They conspired with someone outside the organization to chip in money to injure players. They should feel lucky the punishment isn't worse. I'm not surprised at all by this.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dartgod
03-21-2012, 11:01 AM
That's gonna leave a mark.

http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/tommy-boy.jpg

mr. tegu
03-21-2012, 11:02 AM
Wow even the assistant coach got slapped for 100k!

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 11:02 AM
Good. Smart move by the league.

MIAdragon
03-21-2012, 11:03 AM
Holy shit.

That's unbelievable.

Y'know, the Saints might be wise to dangle Brees afterall. A rebuild may be in order.

http://www.frelia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/pray3jpg.jpg

kysirsoze
03-21-2012, 11:04 AM
They conspired with someone outside the organization to chip in money to injure players. They should feel lucky the punishment isn't worse. I'm not surprised at all by this.
Posted via Mobile Device

I totally agree. What they did has many levels of bad. People can beat the "Everybody does it" drum all they want but it's sounding more and more like that isn't the case.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:04 AM
Well technically this violates salary cap rules as well....


But, seriously. **** the Broncos.


Yeah, that's a good point. I was just coming back into the thread to post that, too.

But yeah, **** the Broncos and Peyton Manning.

Guru
03-21-2012, 11:04 AM
http://www.frelia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/pray3jpg.jpg

Pray all you want. there is no way the Chiefs would go after him.

sedated
03-21-2012, 11:04 AM
Does the suspension include the entire preseason? (Not so much for Payton, but for the assistant coach and GM)

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:04 AM
Holy shit.

That's unbelievable.

Y'know, the Saints might be wise to dangle Brees afterall. A rebuild may be in order.

What's Drew got? 4-5 good/great years left?

If that's what he has left, he's worth two #1's and a 2nd rounder IMO

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:05 AM
They conspired with someone outside the organization to chip in money to injure players. They should feel lucky the punishment isn't worse. I'm not surprised at all by this.
Posted via Mobile Device


They did what? I must've missed that part.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:05 AM
Does the suspension include the entire preseason? (Not so much for Payton, but for the assistant and GM)

I'm sure they'll release more details...but I posed the question earlier. What does suspending a GM 8 games during the season really accomplish?

kysirsoze
03-21-2012, 11:06 AM
They did what? I must've missed that part.

Yeah. It's documented in e-mail if I'm not mistaken.

mr. tegu
03-21-2012, 11:06 AM
Does the suspension include the entire preseason? (Not so much for Payton, but for the assistant coach and GM)

Suspension for Sean Peyton starts April 1st per 610. He can't even participate in the draft!

SNR
03-21-2012, 11:06 AM
Roger Goodell upon finding out his league's clean safety image was fake:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2VCQKG1D3a4/TZqcGD0LnkI/AAAAAAAAANQ/hFG5hvwct5k/s1600/Archer_boom.jpg

wazu
03-21-2012, 11:06 AM
Holy cow. That seems like way too much. What they did was sleazy, but that seems particularly strong. Especially when the Broncos got just a slap on the wrist for violating salary cap rules, which in my opinion is far worse for the game.

This. If I were to set this as the scale for punishment, then what the Broncos did during their Superbowl years should have required shutting down the program entirely for 3 years, with trophies stripped.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:07 AM
They did what? I must've missed that part.

http://deadspin.com/5890499/

ROYC75
03-21-2012, 11:07 AM
Hot Damn !:eek:

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 11:07 AM
Holy cow. That seems like way too much. What they did was sleazy, but that seems particularly strong. Especially when the Broncos got just a slap on the wrist for violating salary cap rules, which in my opinion is far worse for the game.


Sure, but salary cap violations aren't going to get the NFL sued. If they weren't pretty tough in the aftermath of this, and some other team did this, and a player got seriously hurt, then you could easily be looking at 8 or 9 figure settlements.

"ladies and gentlemen, the NFL, the LEAGUE ITSELF, condoned BOUNTIES being put on the heads of opposing players and BECAUSE OF THAT my client will be in a wheelchair being hand-fed FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE..."

Yeah....the NFL ain't stupid.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:07 AM
Was the Super Bowl win worth the punishment?

Hell Yes. #40 f*cking years


Was this going on back then, too? If so, we now have three Super Bowl teams and multiple Super Bowls tarnished by cheating: Saints, Patriots, and Broncos in the last dozen years. That's really unfortunate.

pr_capone
03-21-2012, 11:07 AM
Holy shit.

That's unbelievable.

Y'know, the Saints might be wise to dangle Brees afterall. A rebuild may be in order.

SNATCH HIM THE FUCK UP

Rams Fan
03-21-2012, 11:07 AM
Is Spags going to be the acting HC for a season?

ROYC75
03-21-2012, 11:07 AM
Bad break for Payton. They used him to make an example and a deterrent so they went way overboard on his penalty.

This!

milkman
03-21-2012, 11:08 AM
Those are some pretty stiff penalties, but in a league that is making a point of stressing player safety, not all that surprising.

tk13
03-21-2012, 11:08 AM
Its not even about the bounties to me. Of course these guys want to kill each other.

The NFL just has to lay the law down here. If not, you're opening the door to gamblers and all kinds of shady characters to conspire with front offices to manipulate games. People are so focused on the bounty issues they're ignoring the HUGE slippery slope you're going down with coaches/gamblers if you let this slide.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Arrowhead
03-21-2012, 11:09 AM
wow I bet the Saints message board is pretty much losing it now

Predarat
03-21-2012, 11:09 AM
Gregg Williams should be banned......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/Predarat5/tumblr_lwn1azXlEc1qcgv7yo1_400.jpg

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:10 AM
Just waiting for the Fed Gov't to step in and say they need to drop these penalties to save the city of New Orleans

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 11:10 AM
I should also note that the bounty also included salary cap violations.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:11 AM
http://deadspin.com/5890499/

Oh, my.

Oh.

That's really, really bad.

If the Saints were a college team, that would be death penalty bad. If I was Goodell I'd be banning Payton and anyone else involved for life. I'm reversing my course and saying that it's not punishment enough.

KCChiefsFan88
03-21-2012, 11:11 AM
Sean Payton, despite this scandal is still a damn good coach.

I'd take Payton to be the Chiefs HC in a heart beat.

Bump
03-21-2012, 11:12 AM
GET BREES PIOLI OR FUCK OFF

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 11:12 AM
Sure, but salary cap violations aren't going to get the NFL sued. If they weren't pretty tough in the aftermath of this, and some other team did this, and a player got seriously hurt, then you could easily be looking at 8 or 9 figure settlements.

"ladies and gentlemen, the NFL, the LEAGUE ITSELF, condoned BOUNTIES being put on the heads of opposing players and BECAUSE OF THAT my client will be in a wheelchair being hand-fed FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE..."

Yeah....the NFL ain't stupid.

Yup. What I find particularly interesting, is that in this case, the act led to a competitive advantage in the playoffs. If you look at what they actually did to the Vikings, they basically cheated to cripple Favre, which made him useless in the second half.

That's what scares me. I don't mind contact in the act of playing. I worry about purposeful cheat shots not made in the act of blocking or tackling, which is what the Vikings did.

And what really scares me is that the Saints went high-low twice on a QB, injured the shit out of them, and neither were rung up for penalties. That shit is super dangerous.

SNR
03-21-2012, 11:13 AM
Sean Payton, despite this scandal is still a damn good coach.

I'd take Payton to be the Chiefs HC in a heart beat.DAW I TINK ARON ROJERS GUD QB ID TAKE HIM OVER KASL IN A HARTBEET

Go fist your grandmother, moron

mr. tegu
03-21-2012, 11:13 AM
Peyton can't participate in the draft process since the suspension starts April 1. That is just brutal.

notorious
03-21-2012, 11:14 AM
Just wait.

The IRS hasn't even started, yet.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:14 AM
So to summarize the implications of this:

1. Player safety, of course.
2. As amnorix mentioned, massive potential liability for the league.
3. Salary cap violations.
4. As tk13 mentioned, opening the game up to gambling manipulations and organized crime.

The fourth one actually could be the biggest single issue.

Ban these f*****s for life and bust New Orleans back down to an expansion team. I'd even consider putting a ban on some of the players who received these payments. This is serious stuff.

And didn't it all start with a couple of players talking about it in post-game interviews?

vailpass
03-21-2012, 11:15 AM
Someone needs to make one of those Hitler movie parodies of this saga with Goodell as der Fuhrer.

|Zach|
03-21-2012, 11:15 AM
[Editor's note: The NFL has issued a formal announcement of the punishment meted out for the three-year bounty system maintained by the Saints, from 2009 through 2011. The full statement appears below, unedited.]

Commissioner Roger Goodell notified the New Orleans Saints today of the discipline that will be imposed on team management for violations of the NFL’s long-standing “bounty” rule that endangered player safety over a three-year period.

Discipline for individual players involved in the Saints’ prohibited program continues to be under review with the NFL Players Association and will be addressed by Commissioner Goodell at a later date. The program included “bounty” payments for “knock-outs” and “cart-offs,” plays on which an opposing player was forced to leave the game. At times, the bounties even targeted specific players by name.

The NFL’s extensive investigation established the existence of an active bounty program on the Saints during the 2009, 2010, and 2011 seasons in violation of league rules, a deliberate effort to conceal the program’s existence from league investigators, and a clear determination to maintain the program despite express direction from Saints ownership that it stop as well as ongoing inquiries from the league office.

“We are all accountable and responsible for player health and safety and the integrity of the game,” Commissioner Goodell said. “We will not tolerate conduct or a culture that undermines those priorities. No one is above the game or the rules that govern it. Respect for the game and the people who participate in it will not be compromised.”

“A combination of elements made this matter particularly unusual and egregious,” Commissioner Goodell continued. “When there is targeting of players for injury and cash rewards over a three-year period, the involvement of the coaching staff, and three years of denials and willful disrespect of the rules, a strong and lasting message must be sent that such conduct is totally unacceptable and has no place in the game.”

Following the March 2 announcement of the NFL’s initial findings, the league office conducted further investigation, including Commissioner Goodell meeting with many of the key individuals involved, sometimes on multiple occasions. The commissioner also discussed the matter with the leadership of the NFL Players Association and individual players.

Based on the record, Commissioner Goodell has imposed the following discipline on Saints management:

The New Orleans Saints are fined $500,000. In addition, because the violation involves a competitive rule, the Saints will forfeit their selections in the second round of the 2012 and 2013 NFL drafts.

Saints Head Coach Sean Payton is suspended without pay for the 2012 NFL season, effective April 1.

Saints General Manager Mickey Loomis is suspended without pay for the first eight regular-season games of the 2012 season.

Former Saints (and current St. Louis Rams) defensive coordinator Gregg Williams is suspended indefinitely from the NFL, effective immediately. Commissioner Goodell will review Coach Williams’ status at the conclusion of the 2012 season and consider whether to reinstate him, and, if so, on what terms. Commissioner Goodell said he will give close attention to the extent to which Coach Williams cooperates with the NFL in any further proceedings.

Saints assistant Head Coach Joe Vitt is suspended without pay for the first six regular-season games of the 2012 season.

The Saints and the individuals disciplined today are expected to participate in efforts led by the league office to develop programs that will instruct players and coaches at all levels of the game on the need for respect for the game and those who participate in it, on principles of fair play, safety and sportsmanship, and to ensure that bounties will not be part of football at any level.

Commissioner Goodell stated that the actions of the individuals disciplined today violated league rules and constituted conduct detrimental to the league and players. He said the existence of a pay-for-performance/bounty program undermined the integrity of the game. The violations were compounded by the failure of Coach Payton to supervise the players and coaches and his affirmative decision starting in 2010 (a) not to inquire into the facts concerning the pay-for-performance/bounty program even though he was aware of the league’s inquiries both in 2010 and 2012; (b) to falsely deny that the program existed; (c) to encourage the false denials by instructing assistants to “make sure our ducks are in a row;” and (d) to ignore instructions from the league office and club ownership to ensure that no such program existed.

“Beyond the clear and continuing violations of league rules, and lying to investigators, the bounty program is squarely contrary to the league’s most important initiatives – enhancing player health and safety and protecting the integrity of the game,” Commissioner Goodell said. “Let me be clear. There is no place in the NFL for deliberately seeking to injure another player, let alone offering a reward for doing so. Any form of bounty is incompatible with our commitment to create a culture of sportsmanship, fairness, and safety. Programs of this kind have no place in our game and we are determined that bounties will no longer be a part of the NFL.”

A 2007 amendment to the NFL Constitution and By-Laws obligated coaches and supervisory employees “to communicate openly and candidly with the principal owner and/or his designated representative; to ensure that club ownership is informed on a complete and timely basis of all matters affecting the club’s operations; and to avoid actions that undermine or damage the club’s reputation or operating success.” The obligation to supervise the coaching staff and players is also expressly set forth in the employment agreement signed by Coach Payton.

Commissioner Goodell said he will separately address potential sanctions for players and others with documented involvement in the bounty program.

“While I will not address player conduct at this time, I am profoundly troubled by the fact that players – including leaders among the defensive players – embraced this program so enthusiastically and participated with what appears to have been a deliberate lack of concern for the well-being of their fellow players,” Commissioner Goodell said. “While all club personnel are expected to play to win, they must not let the quest for victory so cloud their judgment that they willingly and willfully target their opponents and engage in unsafe and prohibited conduct intended to injure players.”

While NFL staff has interviewed people in connection with public allegations of bounty programs at other clubs, no evidence was established showing that the programs at other clubs involved targeting opposing players or rewarding players for injuring an opponent. Commissioner Goodell emphasized that if additional information is brought to his attention that discloses bounties offered for injuring specific opposing players, he will revisit the matter to consider additional discipline.

The findings in the league’s investigation, corroborated by multiple independent sources, conclusively established the following:

1. The Saints defensive team operated a pay-for-performance/bounty program, primarily funded by players, during the 2009, 2010, and 2011 seasons. Under that program, players regularly made cash “donations” to a pool, and were “fined” for mental errors, loafing, penalties, and the like. At least one assistant coach (defensive coordinator Gregg Williams) also occasionally contributed to the pool. There is no evidence that any club money was contributed to the program.

2. Payments were made for plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries. All such payments are against league rules. Payments also were made for plays on which opposing players were injured. In addition, specific players were sometimes targeted. The investigation showed bounties being placed on four quarterbacks of opposing teams – Brett Favre, Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, and Kurt Warner. Multiple sources have confirmed that several players pledged funds toward bounties on specific opposing players, with defensive captain Jonathan Vilma offering $10,000 to any player who knocked Brett Favre out of the NFC Championship Game in 2010.

3. Coach Williams acknowledged that he designed and implemented the program with the assistance of certain defensive players. He said that he did so after being told by Saints Head Coach Sean Payton that his assignment was to make the defense “nasty.” Coach Williams described his role as overseeing record keeping, defining payout amounts, deciding on who received payouts, and distributing envelopes with cash to players who “earned” rewards.

4. In each of the 2009-2011 seasons, the Saints were one of the top five teams in the league in roughing the passer penalties. In 2009 and 2011, the Saints were also in the top five teams in unnecessary roughness penalties; in 2010, the Saints ranked sixth in the category. In the January 16, 2010 divisional playoff game against the Arizona Cardinals, Saints defensive players were assessed $15,000 in fines for fouls committed against opposing players. The following week, in the NFC Championship Game against the Minnesota Vikings, Saints defensive players were assessed $30,000 in fines for four separate illegal hits, several of which were directed against quarterback Brett Favre.

5. Coach Williams now acknowledges that when he was first questioned about this matter in early 2010 he intentionally misled NFL investigators and made no effort to stop the program after he became aware of the league’s investigation.

6. Coach Williams further confirmed that the program continued during the 2010 and 2011 seasons, and that he occasionally contributed funds to the pool in each of those seasons.

7. Assistant Head Coach/Defense Joe Vitt acknowledged that he was aware of the program in 2009-2011. He admitted that, when interviewed in 2010, he “fabricated the truth” to NFL investigators and denied that any pay-for-performance or bounty program existed at the Saints.

8. Coach Vitt said one of his primary roles was to monitor the activity of Coach Williams. This was based on the direction of Coach Payton, who apparently had less than full confidence in Coach Williams. Despite Coach Vitt’s knowledge of the bounty program, his understanding of the terms “knock-out” and “cart-off,” his witnessing Coach Williams handing out envelopes that he believed to contain cash, and his acknowledgement that the defensive meeting preceding the 2010 NFC Championship Game may have “got out of hand” with respect to Brett Favre, Coach Vitt claimed he never advised either Coach Payton or General Manager Mickey Loomis of the “pay-for-performance/bounty” program.

9. A summary prepared following a Saints preseason game included the statement, “1 Cart-off – Crank up the John Deer (sic) Tractor” in reference to a hit on an opposing player. Similar statements are reflected in prepared documents or slides in connection with other games in multiple seasons. A review of the game films confirms that opposing players were injured on the plays identified in the documents.

10. When interviewed in 2012, Sean Payton claimed to be entirely unaware of the program, a claim contradicted by others. Further, prior to the Saints’ opening game in 2011, Coach Payton received an email from a close associate that stated in part, “PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers (sic).” When shown the email during the course of the investigation, Coach Payton stated that it referred to a “bounty” on Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers.

11. In early 2010, Mr. Loomis advised Coach Payton that the league office was investigating allegations concerning a bounty program. Coach Payton said that he met with his top two defensive assistants, Coach Williams and Coach Vitt, in advance of the interview with league investigators and told them, “Let’s make sure our ducks are in a row.” Remarkably, Coach Payton claimed that he never inquired of Coach Williams and Coach Vitt as to what happened in the interviews, never asked them if a “pay-for-performance” or bounty program was in fact in place, and never gave any instructions to discontinue such a program.

12. In January 2012, prior to the Saints’ first playoff game of the 2011 season, Coach Payton was advised by Mr. Loomis that the league office had reopened the investigation. Coach Payton made a cursory inquiry but took no action to ensure that any bounty program was discontinued.

13. General Manager Mickey Loomis was not present at meetings of the Saints defense at which bounties were discussed and was not aware of bounties being placed on specific players. Mr. Loomis became aware of the allegations regarding a bounty program no later than February 2010 when he was notified of the investigation into the allegations during a meeting with NFL Executive Vice President-Football Operations Ray Anderson. He was directed to ensure that any such program ceased immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis did not do enough to determine if a pay-for-performance/bounty program existed or to end any such program that did exist.

14. Saints owner Tom Benson notified Mr. Loomis in January 2012 prior to the team’s participation in the playoffs that the league’s investigation had been reopened. Mr. Benson reiterated his position that a bounty program was unacceptable and instructed Mr. Loomis to ensure that if a bounty program existed at the Saints it would stop immediately. By his own admission, Mr. Loomis responded to this direction by making only cursory inquiries of Coaches Payton and Williams. He never issued instructions to end the bounty program to either the coaching staff or the players.

15. There is no evidence that Saints ownership had any knowledge of the pay-for-performance or bounty program. There is no evidence that any club funds were used for the program. Ownership made clear that it disapproved of the program, gave prompt and clear direction that it stop, and gave full and immediate cooperation to league investigators.

wazu
03-21-2012, 11:16 AM
Oh, my.

Oh.

That's really, really bad.

If the Saints were a college team, that would be death penalty bad. If I was Goodell I'd be banning Payton and anyone else involved for life. I'm reversing my course and saying that it's not punishment enough.

You are over-correcting. I just went and read this for the first time. My opinion on the situation hasn't changed much.

DJ's left nut
03-21-2012, 11:17 AM
What's Drew got? 4-5 good/great years left?

If that's what he has left, he's worth two #1's and a 2nd rounder IMO

I don't see them having much choice, really. They just lost their HC and OC, they have a quarterback that hates them and the franchise just got clusterbombed from a draft pick standpoint (no first this year either).

I don't think I'd want to give up two #1s AND a #2, but I'm pretty certain I'd give up two #1s and Cassel; which may actually be somewhat appealing for them.

If Benson and Loomis believe, as it appears, that Brees is a product of the system, they may think they can still hum with Cassel under center. And with him under center at $5 million for the next 2 seasons, it eases the strain on their cap and allows them to pursue some FAs rather than build exclusively through the draft (necessary due to the picks losses).

Add in some high value picks and you may actually be onto something.

From my chair, it really does make sense for both parties.

Cave Johnson
03-21-2012, 11:17 AM
What's Drew got? 4-5 good/great years left?

If that's what he has left, he's worth two #1's and a 2nd rounder IMO

Given the Saints' situation, Brees' contract demands, and his age, you might get away with 2 1st. Which I'd gladly give up to make the Chiefs a SB contender.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 11:17 AM
Kent Babb ‏ @kentbabb

If you missed my story last Sunday in the @KCStar, Excelsior Springs native Gregg Williams' friends say he fears a lifetime ban is coming.

Los Pollos Hermanos
03-21-2012, 11:18 AM
Wonder if they are dropping the hammer to show they aren't bullshitting but might reduce on appeal?

Michael Lombardi said on NFLN that there really is nobody to appeal to.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 11:18 AM
I don't see them having much choice, really. They just lost their HC and OC, they have a quarterback that hates them and the franchise just got clusterbombed from a draft pick standpoint (no first this year either).

I don't think I'd want to give up two #1s AND a #2, but I'm pretty certain I'd give up two #1s and Cassel; which may actually be somewhat appealing for them.

If Benson and Loomis believe, as it appears, that Brees is a product of the system, they may think they can still hum with Cassel under center. And with him under center at $5 million for the next 2 seasons, it eases the strain on their cap and allows them to pursue some FAs rather than build exclusively through the draft (necessary due to the picks losses).

Add in some high value picks and you may actually be onto something.

From my chair, it really does make sense for both parties.

I'd definitely throw them 2 1st round picks and Cassel for Brees.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:20 AM
I don't think I'd want to give up two #1s AND a #2, but I'm pretty certain I'd give up two #1s and Cassel; which may actually be somewhat appealing for them.


http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/2605540/480/PC-%2B-Audio-stuff/JIMP.png?v0

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-21-2012, 11:20 AM
Chris Mortensen‏@mortreportReply
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NFL says #Saints bounties were placed on at least 4 QBs - Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Aaron Rodgers & Cam Newton

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 11:22 AM
I have a feeling that the Saints defense is going to be getting penalized a LOT this season. Any thing that could be in any way looked upon as a late hit or unnecessary roughness is going to be called.

notorious
03-21-2012, 11:22 AM
Wow.


This is a lot worse then what the players have been lying about.


Vilma is going to get hammered shortly.

DJ's left nut
03-21-2012, 11:23 AM
So Payton's fired, right?

The Saints can't just go without an OC and a HC for a year and I can't imagine Benson's going to be too excited about keeping Peyton around after the holocaust that he apparently helped initiate.

vailpass
03-21-2012, 11:23 AM
Chris Mortensen‏@mortreportReply
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NFL says #Saints bounties were placed on at least 4 QBs - Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Aaron Rodgers & Cam Newton

Warner talked about that hit the Saints put on him on the radio a couple weeks ago. Said it was the hardest hit he ever took because it was blindside. Said it made it easier to decide to retire.
And said more than once that it was a legit, clean hit well within the rules of the NFL.

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-21-2012, 11:24 AM
So Payton's fired, right?

The Saints can't just go without an OC and a HC for a year and I can't imagine Benson's going to be too excited about keeping Peyton around after the holocaust that he apparently helped initiate.

Steve Spagnuolo will be the HC in 2012 for them

L.A. Chieffan
03-21-2012, 11:24 AM
They're just bonus incentives. Anybody thats worked in a commission based job knows this.

Hoover
03-21-2012, 11:25 AM
Trade for Brees!

Can you imagine the AFC west with Brees, Manning, Rivers, and Palmer?

chiefqueen
03-21-2012, 11:26 AM
I'm sure they'll release more details...but I posed the question earlier. What does suspending a GM 8 games during the season really accomplish?

Will the Saints be allowed to make transactions during the 8 weeks?

KCChiefsFan88
03-21-2012, 11:26 AM
DAW I TINK ARON ROJERS GUD QB ID TAKE HIM OVER KASL IN A HARTBEET

Go fist your grandmother, moron

ROFL Look at the dumbshit who cried when Hamas fled the message board attempt to talk smack

Have you removed Hamas' dick from your mouth yet?

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 11:26 AM
Warner talked about that hit the Saints put on him on the radio a couple weeks ago. Said it was the hardest hit he ever took because it was blindside. Said it made it easier to decide to retire.
And said more than once that it was a legit, clean hit well within the rules of the NFL.

The Favre game is the one that did it for me. There were several hits that were well outside the rules. And mission accomplished, because it physically injured him to the point where he could barely play.

That's cheating at its worst. That's the same as Tonya Harding kneecapping Nancy Kerrigan so she wouldn't be able to skate well.

dannybcaitlyn
03-21-2012, 11:26 AM
Trade for Brees!

Can you imagine the AFC west with Brees, Manning, Rivers, and Palmer?

I agree make a trade for BREES!!

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:26 AM
I have a feeling that the Saints defense is going to be getting penalized a LOT this season. Any thing that could be in any way looked upon as a late hit or unnecessary roughness is going to be called.


Heh. That's pretty funny. I bet you're right.

sedated
03-21-2012, 11:27 AM
What I find particularly interesting, is that in this case, the act led to a competitive advantage in the playoffs. If you look at what they actually did to the Vikings, they basically cheated to cripple Favre, which made him useless in the second half.

Pretty much every team does this already. The difference here, as pointed out in the Deadspin article, is that they had an outside person backing extra payments, he was definitely linked to fraud, and may have been linked to gambling.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:27 AM
Will the Saints be allowed to make transactions during the 8 weeks?

I would assume so. I can't imagine the NFL would shutdown their ability to operate day-to-day once the season has started.

Like I said, I'm sure the NFL will clarify on what suspending Loomis really means.

Rams Fan
03-21-2012, 11:27 AM
Steve Spagnuolo will be the HC in 2012 for them

Is that confirmed?

DJ's left nut
03-21-2012, 11:29 AM
The other exciting possibility w/ a Brees trade is that the Dolphins would presumably be some of the stiffest competition we face for him.

The same Dolphins that already gave him the finger once.

Seriously, Pioli - get to work buddy. This may actually be one hell of an opportunity for the Chiefs.

SNR
03-21-2012, 11:29 AM
ROFL Look at the dumbshit who cried when Hamas fled the message board attempt to talk smack

Have you removed Hamas' dick from your mouth yet?Is that the only thing you talk about around here?

Tell us how you would love it if the Chiefs won the next 20 Super Bowls. Your Sean Payton quip was just so fascinating and intelligent that we all want to hear more.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:29 AM
Pretty much every team does this already. The difference here, as pointed out in the Deadspin article, is that they had an outside person backing extra payments, he was definitely linked to fraud, and may have been linked to gambling.

Yeah, that to me is the biggest issue, even above the salary cap and safety stuff. Having an outside party do this is a threat to the entire sport.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 11:30 AM
The other exciting possibility w/ a Brees trade is that the Dolphins would presumably be some of the stiffest competition we face for him.

The same Dolphins that already gave him the finger once.

Seriously, Pioli - get to work buddy. This may actually be one hell of an opportunity for the Chiefs.

Fucking this. There should be no reason why we aren't calling the Saints and offering them picks and Cassel for Brees. Brees would instantly put us as favorites for the AFC West.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:30 AM
The other exciting possibility w/ a Brees trade is that the Dolphins would presumably be some of the stiffest competition we face for him.

The same Dolphins that already gave him the finger once.

Seriously, Pioli - get to work buddy. This may actually be one hell of an opportunity for the Chiefs.

"I reached out to Drew and his agent. He said he had a plan. I didn't feel it was my place to ask what his plan was" - SP

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:31 AM
I would assume so. I can't imagine the NFL would shutdown their ability to operate day-to-day once the season has started.

Like I said, I'm sure the NFL will clarify on what suspending Loomis really means.

From a business standpoint I don't think they'll penalize the team ownership, so yeah, they'll get a replacement GM and coach and stuff.

I'm really curious what's going to happen to the defensive players involved. If you got a bonus check for this stuff, I really think you should be facing very significant suspensions and fines.

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 11:31 AM
Pretty much every team does this already. The difference here, as pointed out in the Deadspin article, is that they had an outside person backing extra payments, he was definitely linked to fraud, and may have been linked to gambling.

No, that is BS. What the Saints did during the Vikings game was well beyond. They were tagged for two personal fouls and one that was badly missed. They had one hit where a player leveled Favre on a handoff which is completely unheard of. They had one where a player pile-drived Favre into the ground, which was a clear penalty. And there was one that essentially shattered Favre's ankles--it was a high-low hit where one player went at his knees (which is illegally on its own) but is even worse when another guy is tackling high.

My guess is that this will never be released, because the NFL isn't going to want to be sued by players injured by this. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

KCChiefsFan88
03-21-2012, 11:32 AM
Is that the only thing you talk about around here?

Tell us how you would love it if the Chiefs won the next 20 Super Bowls. Your Sean Payton quip was just so fascinating and intelligent that we all want to hear more.

You still haven't explained why you cried, bitched and moaned for Hamas, another dude to stay on this message board

Seriously who does that?

You dickless whore.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:32 AM
Will the Saints be allowed to make transactions during the 8 weeks?

Jay Glazer via twitter:

Mickey Loomis' suspension begins during regular season so he is able to continue to conduct business including the draft

bevischief
03-21-2012, 11:35 AM
Maybe this was the master plan along... There had to be rumors going around about this in league circles...

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:35 AM
Jay Glazer via twitter:


So...is that a punishment at all? What does a GM do during the season other than eat nachos with Priest? That's cheesy. Suspend the guy right now if you're going to suspend him.

sedated
03-21-2012, 11:36 AM
No, that is BS. What the Saints did during the Vikings game was well beyond. They were tagged for two personal fouls and one that was badly missed. They had one hit where a player leveled Favre on a handoff which is completely unheard of. They had one where a player pile-drived Favre into the ground, which was a clear penalty. And there was one that essentially shattered Favre's ankles--it was a high-low hit where one player went at his knees (which is illegally on its own) but is even worse when another guy is tackling high.

My guess is that this will never be released, because the NFL isn't going to want to be sued by players injured by this. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Your last point doesn't make sense - all that WAS JUST released.

And if you don't think that defensive players try to knock the QB out of the game, every game, then you know nothing about football. It happens on every level when facing a good QB.

Rams Fan
03-21-2012, 11:37 AM
Goodell's going to be on NFLN in 25 minutes.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 11:37 AM
So...is that a punishment at all? What does a GM do during the season other than eat nachos with Priest? That's cheesy. Suspend the guy right now if you're going to suspend him.

That's what I've been asking. Does that really affect the team at all?

I sent a tweet to Jay Glazer asking about how the suspension of Loomis will affect the team in-season...

kysirsoze
03-21-2012, 11:38 AM
So...is that a punishment at all? What does a GM do during the season other than eat nachos with Priest? That's cheesy. Suspend the guy right now if you're going to suspend him.

We need him to trade us Brees first!

tk13
03-21-2012, 11:38 AM
No, that is BS. What the Saints did during the Vikings game was well beyond. They were tagged for two personal fouls and one that was badly missed. They had one hit where a player leveled Favre on a handoff which is completely unheard of. They had one where a player pile-drived Favre into the ground, which was a clear penalty. And there was one that essentially shattered Favre's ankles--it was a high-low hit where one player went at his knees (which is illegally on its own) but is even worse when another guy is tackling high.

My guess is that this will never be released, because the NFL isn't going to want to be sued by players injured by this. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Every defense wants to kill the offense. That's football. I'm sure player safety matters, and they will use that to spin PR. But the reality is they were about one step below fixing games with gamblers. I think you could argue this was worse than what Pete Rose did because it was an attempt to directly affect games.

But Goodell is a PR master, and he will sweep this under the rug, and let people like you get caught up in the safety argument hoping everyone ignores the real issue here.
Posted via Mobile Device

wazu
03-21-2012, 11:38 AM
So...is that a punishment at all? What does a GM do during the season other than eat nachos with Priest? That's cheesy. Suspend the guy right now if you're going to suspend him.

Yeah, don't get measuring a GM suspension in terms of "games". Square peg in a round hole. Right now is their "on" season.

Easy 6
03-21-2012, 11:39 AM
Wow, the hammer was really dropped.

Its the right call, imo.

zonachief
03-21-2012, 11:41 AM
As much as trading for brees is enticing I cant see the saints trading the only piece of credibility they have left. It might be smart though considering that brees is in contract limbo and getting older. Blowing the whole thing up might be the only thing to do.

bevischief
03-21-2012, 11:42 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/sean-payton-stunned-by-suspension-im-not-ok/

Sean Payton stunned by suspension: “I’m not OK”
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 21, 2012, 1:28 PM EDT
New Orleans Saints v Green Bay Packers Getty Images

Saints coach Sean Payton was shocked to find out today that he has been banished from the NFL for the entire 2012 season for his team’s bounty scandal.

Jay Glazer said on NFL Network that he interviewed Payton immediately after the news came down, and NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell’s punishment is far more severe than Payton was expecting.

“I did talk to him and he’s stunned to say the least,” Glazer said. “I think the entire team thought maybe there’d be a four-game suspension, but not a year. I said, ‘Are you OK?’ And he said, ‘No, I’m not OK.’ He is stunned. He’s going to lose about $8 million. He is beside himself here.”

Glazer reports that Payton’s plan for the four-game suspension he had braced himself for was to have assistant head coach/linebackers coach Joe Vitt take over as interim head coach while Payton served the suspension. But that plan is now out the window because Vitt has been suspended six games for his own role in the bounty scandal.

The Saints may now have either offensive coordinator Pete Carmichael or former Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo, who was slated to replace Gregg Williams as defensive coordinator, step in as the head coach.

mr. tegu
03-21-2012, 11:42 AM
Maybe this was the master plan along... There had to be rumors going around about this in league circles...

That is the optimism we need :) That would completely ruin the Donkeys parade!

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 11:42 AM
You are over-correcting. I just went and read this for the first time. My opinion on the situation hasn't changed much.



So what part doesn't bother you the most? Is it the cheating the salary cap, the lying to NFL investigators, the disobeying the team's owner in continuing the program, or the intentional and funded effort to cripple other team's star players?

kysirsoze
03-21-2012, 11:42 AM
As much as trading for brees is enticing I cant see the saints trading the only piece of credibility they have left. It might be smart though considering that brees is in contract limbo and getting older. Blowing the whole thing up might be the only thing to do.

If they have a chance to get two firsts (or better) for a guy that will probably leave via FA next year to replace their two lost picks, how do they not do that?

SNR
03-21-2012, 11:43 AM
You still haven't explained why you cried, bitched and moaned for Hamas, another dude to stay on this message board

Seriously who does that?

You dickless whore.
You have that quote archived and are the one who scours it daily masturbating to your glorious "victory" due to your unfortunate Napoleon complex. Tell me if I ever "cried, bitched, and moaned" and point to the wording I used that makes you think that. I think I used the word "Please" in there once. If that's your evidence, then I suppose you're beyond help.

If you can't, but are too embarrassed to be a man and admit you were just eating your own feces, go ahead and post one of your classic "You are OWNED, bitch!" lines, and further everybody's opinion that you're a fucking retard.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:43 AM
Every defense wants to kill the offense. That's football. I'm sure player safety matters, and they will use that to spin PR. But the reality is they were about one step below fixing games with gamblers. I think you could argue this was worse than what Pete Rose did because it was an attempt to directly affect games.

But Goodell is a PR master, and he will sweep this under the rug, and let people like you get caught up in the safety argument hoping everyone ignores the real issue here.
Posted via Mobile Device

I really think that every player who got one of these payments should be suspended. The trick will be identifying that since it was probably made in cash.

The money itself is irrelevant. $10,000 is nothing to most of these guys. It's the act of taking payments from an outside party.

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 11:45 AM
Your last point doesn't make sense - all that WAS JUST released.

And if you don't think that defensive players try to knock the QB out of the game, every game, then you know nothing about football. It happens on every level when facing a good QB.

I'm saying they aren't necessarily going to tell you everything. They open themselves up to a world of liability if they say "yes, this team did things that actually led to clear injuries."

And don't be ridiculous. Players try to hurt players in the act of making a football play. In most cases, you see players try to hit good players as hard as they can within the framework of the rules. The Saints didn't play by any rules. Clocking Warner is a legitimate hit. Clocking Favre after a handoff is a bullshit cheap shot. High-lowing Favre is an injury shot that could have crippled him. Pile-driving him to the ground after a sack is something every single player knows is illegal and tries to avoid (sometimes mistakes happen).

The Saints cheated to win against Minnesota. Again, what is to stop a guy from running into a franchise QB's knees in the playoffs 5 seconds after a throw is made? You may get 15 yards, but knocking Aaron Rodgers out is well worth that 15 yards.

Guru
03-21-2012, 11:45 AM
The Favre game is the one that did it for me. There were several hits that were well outside the rules. And mission accomplished, because it physically injured him to the point where he could barely play.

That's cheating at its worst. That's the same as Tonya Harding kneecapping Nancy Kerrigan so she wouldn't be able to skate well.
Football and figure skating in the same post. LMAO

bevischief
03-21-2012, 11:46 AM
I really think that every player who got one of these payments should be suspended. The trick will be identifying that since it was probably made in cash.

The money itself is irrelevant. $10,000 is nothing to most of these guys. It's the act of taking payments from an outside party.

It is going to suck to be a Saints fan this year... I wonder how many defensive players will be suspended?

the Talking Can
03-21-2012, 11:47 AM
holy shit snacks

Goodell threw his dick on the table

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 11:48 AM
Every defense wants to kill the offense. That's football. I'm sure player safety matters, and they will use that to spin PR. But the reality is they were about one step below fixing games with gamblers. I think you could argue this was worse than what Pete Rose did because it was an attempt to directly affect games.

But Goodell is a PR master, and he will sweep this under the rug, and let people like you get caught up in the safety argument hoping everyone ignores the real issue here.
Posted via Mobile Device

What are you talking about? I've mentioned the gambling issue repeatedly when this first came up.

But people are trying to treat this like it's just players playing tough. It's not. It's about players cheap shotting other players to gain a competitive advantage. While the gambling creates a whole legality issue, cheating through cheap shots is a competitive integrity issue. I could care less about player safety. I care about when teams can do things way outside the realm of regular football to purposely hurt a player that's killing them.

SNR
03-21-2012, 11:49 AM
Lol. Read the comments in the nfl.com article that details the punishment.

FIRE GOODELL

This is the most positive thing Goodell has ever done in his term as NFL Commissioner. Sorry WHODAT69, but your team needs to get raped for this.

Chiefnj2
03-21-2012, 11:49 AM
Why wasn't Cassel on the list?

KC Tattoo
03-21-2012, 11:50 AM
Damn didn't expect something like this to come accross the wire.


My prediction Saints won't win a Super Bowl this year.

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 11:51 AM
I really think that every player who got one of these payments should be suspended. The trick will be identifying that since it was probably made in cash.

The money itself is irrelevant. $10,000 is nothing to most of these guys. It's the act of taking payments from an outside party.


Only issue with your statement is whether the playres knew an outside party was funding this, in part. They may not have known about that bit.

But yes, I'm thinking a few suspensions are coming down.

zonachief
03-21-2012, 11:52 AM
A tornado is heading for new orleans right now...no seriously. Its on the news. Not a good day for the big easy.

notorious
03-21-2012, 11:52 AM
Should have been worse.


It makes you wonder, though, why they didn't call those cheap shots on Favre.......

kysirsoze
03-21-2012, 11:53 AM
Only issue with your statement is whether the playres knew an outside party was funding this, in part. They may not have known about that bit.

But yes, I'm thinking a few suspensions are coming down.

Also, there's guys like Vilma that made their own bounties.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:53 AM
Why wasn't Cassel on the list?


They were funding bounties to protect him. Different list.

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-21-2012, 11:53 AM
Steve Breaston‏@SBreaston15Reply
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Defensive players are always going to go hard,there is thousands, even millions of dollars n incentives for sack numbers, that not a bounty?

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 11:54 AM
Also, there's guys like Vilma that made their own bounties.

Yeah, he's going to get whacked, no question about it.

I really just can't fathom what Payton was thinking... Or Gregg Williams, who has been in the NFL a very long time.

Wonder how Mohillbilly is doing. He can't be happy.

Detoxing
03-21-2012, 11:55 AM
Steve Breaston‏@SBreaston15Reply
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Defensive players are always going to go hard,there is thousands, even millions of dollars n incentives for sack numbers, that not a bounty?

And the poet lays the smack down.

It's a good point.

notorious
03-21-2012, 11:55 AM
Also, there's guys like Vilma that made their own bounties.

Vilma is going to be next.


Goddell has the list of players, it's only a matter of time before he pulls out the rape stick.

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 11:55 AM
Should have been worse.


It makes you wonder, though, why they didn't call those cheap shots on Favre.......

They actually did call 2 of them, and I think three were fined. It should have been three--Peter King wondered if the refs kept the flags in their pockets so they didn't seem too flag-happy.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:55 AM
Only issue with your statement is whether the playres knew an outside party was funding this, in part. They may not have known about that bit.

But yes, I'm thinking a few suspensions are coming down.


Good point. But I guess in thinking about it more, it doesn't matter where the money is coming from from the players' perspective. Accepting a bounty is a known violation of the salary cap among other things.

But you're right. The outside party stuff is more on Payton and others.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 11:56 AM
And the poet lays the smack down.

It's a good point.

No it's not. This isn't even anywhere close to being like a sack and getting bonuses for that.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 11:56 AM
What was Vilma doing? I must've missed that part.

tk13
03-21-2012, 11:56 AM
What are you talking about? I've mentioned the gambling issue repeatedly when this first came up.

But people are trying to treat this like it's just players playing tough. It's not. It's about players cheap shotting other players to gain a competitive advantage. While the gambling creates a whole legality issue, cheating through cheap shots is a competitive integrity issue. I could care less about player safety. I care about when teams can do things way outside the realm of regular football to purposely hurt a player that's killing them.

That may be, but fans want to see guys killing each other. It's football.

The "competitive integrity problem" is that Payton's in bed with a felon. What happens if one year they're 13-0, have homefield, and this guy's like "Throw the next two games for me or I'll blow the cover off your whole bounty program." That's far and away the biggest issue here, and why the first hammer to come down was on the guys who had control over an entire team.
Posted via Mobile Device

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 11:56 AM
Damn didn't expect something like this to come accross the wire.


My prediction Saints won't win a Super Bowl this year.

Way to go out on a limb there. :facepalm:

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 11:56 AM
And the poet lays the smack down.

It's a good point.

It's not a good point.

A sack is a football play.
Leveling a QB on a late hit is not a football play, especially if the QB is completely out of the play and not in the act of blocking. Going after the knees intentionally is meant to injure the player, whereas sacking a QB is meant to tackle the QB so the defense forces a 2nd and long. Two totally different things.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 11:56 AM
What was Vilma doing? I must've missed that part.

He personally put $10,000 up for anyone who injured Favre.

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-21-2012, 11:57 AM
Jay Glazer‏@JayGlazerReply
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In all this, saints make a move by signing Brodrick Bunkley 5yrs $25m with $9m grntd.

zonachief
03-21-2012, 11:57 AM
And the poet lays the smack down.

It's a good point.

Hitting ther QB behind the LOS for a sack is one thing but offering dough to knock a guy out of the game....way different.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 11:58 AM
Jay Glazer‏@JayGlazerReply
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In all this, saints make a move by signing Brodrick Bunkley 5yrs $25m with $9m grntd.

Way to go Denver! ROFL

Rams Fan
03-21-2012, 11:58 AM
Jay Glazer‏@JayGlazerReply
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In all this, saints make a move by signing Brodrick Bunkley 5yrs $25m with $9m grntd.

Big loss for the Broncos.

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 11:58 AM
That may be, but fans want to see guys killing each other. It's football.

The "competitive integrity problem" is that Payton's in bed with a felon. What happens if one year they're 13-0, have homefield, and this guy's like "Throw the next two games for me or I'll blow the cover off your whole bounty program." That's far and away the biggest issue here.
Posted via Mobile Device

The competitive integrity issue comes into play BIG TIME when you have 3 cheap shots that were obviously built on a specific strategy to knock out a QB, and those 3 illegal plays end up knocking the all pro QB out of the game for the final, critical series of the game.

Fritz88
03-21-2012, 11:58 AM
Not surprised.
Posted via Mobile Device

sedated
03-21-2012, 11:59 AM
And the poet lays the smack down.

It's a good point.

I disagree. A bonus for playing hard and racking up stats is one thing, but bonuses given for injuries is another. And the bonuses for stats are included in the salary cap, not under-the-table money from some guy in Vegas.

Dave Lane
03-21-2012, 11:59 AM
Gregggg Williams suspended for life!!!!

Should be. Or at least 2-3 years which could be the same thing.

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 12:00 PM
That may be, but fans want to see guys killing each other. It's football.

The "competitive integrity problem" is that Payton's in bed with a felon. What happens if one year they're 13-0, have homefield, and this guy's like "Throw the next two games for me or I'll blow the cover off your whole bounty program." That's far and away the biggest issue here, and why the first hammer to come down was on the guys who had control over an entire team.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm fine with players hitting each other. I don't get hung up on helmet-to-helmet. I agree that it should be penalized, but at least it's in the act of making a football play.

Again, I'm not talking about hitting hard on a football play. I'm talking about obvious, extracurricular cheap shots where players are intentionally doing illegal things to get a player injured.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 12:00 PM
He personally put $10,000 up for anyone who injured Favre.

That loud noise coming from the ground in Wisconsin was my jaw hitting the floor in Colorado. When did this come out?

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 12:00 PM
Good point. But I guess in thinking about it more, it doesn't matter where the money is coming from from the players' perspective. Accepting a bounty is a known violation of the salary cap among other things.

But you're right. The outside party stuff is more on Payton and others.


Oh I agree, the players need to be whacked too. Especially those funding bounties (Vilma). But who knows what they knew about the outside funds bit.

J Diddy
03-21-2012, 12:01 PM
What are you talking about? I've mentioned the gambling issue repeatedly when this first came up.

But people are trying to treat this like it's just players playing tough. It's not. It's about players cheap shotting other players to gain a competitive advantage. While the gambling creates a whole legality issue, cheating through cheap shots is a competitive integrity issue. I could care less about player safety. I care about when teams can do things way outside the realm of regular football to purposely hurt a player that's killing them.


Then maybe football's not your sport. Why would my coach teach me to hit hard rather than simply leg tackling? Easy answer, it's because by blowing up a player it's going to get him thinking and affect the outcome of the game.

That's what hard hits are about.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 12:01 PM
Heh. I search on "Saints forum" and clicked the first one that showed up, and their server is down.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 12:02 PM
That loud noise coming from the ground in Wisconsin was my jaw hitting the floor in Colorado. When did this come out?

“In the week of the NFC Championship Game,” Schefter said on NFL Live Friday, “Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma put $10,000 in cash on a table and said ‘this goes to the guy that knocks out Brett Favre.’” Those weren’t Vilma’s exact words, but they were similar, according to Schefter, and he’s sure to be atop the league’s target list for impending discipline. It’s worth nothing that Vilma is due $5.4 million in 2012 and has been discussed as a possible salary cap casualty. We wouldn’t expect him back with the Saints.

http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2012/03/05/jonathan-vilma-accused-of-bounty-on-brett-favre-tweets-yuck-about-man-crush/

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 12:02 PM
That loud noise coming from the ground in Wisconsin was my jaw hitting the floor in Colorado. When did this come out?


Post 82 of this thread, the official NFL announcement, includes this:

2. Payments were made for plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries. All such payments are against league rules. Payments also were made for plays on which opposing players were injured. In addition, specific players were sometimes targeted. The investigation showed bounties being placed on four quarterbacks of opposing teams – Brett Favre, Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, and Kurt Warner. Multiple sources have confirmed that several players pledged funds toward bounties on specific opposing players, with defensive captain Jonathan Vilma offering $10,000 to any player who knocked Brett Favre out of the NFC Championship Game in 2010.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 12:03 PM
They were funding bounties to protect him. Different list.

Beat me to it. They funded the bounties by fining those who injured QB's like Cassel

the Talking Can
03-21-2012, 12:04 PM
9. A summary prepared following a Saints preseason game included the statement, “1 Cart-off – Crank up the John Deer (sic) Tractor” in reference to a hit on an opposing player. Similar statements are reflected in prepared documents or slides in connection with other games in multiple seasons. A review of the game films confirms that opposing players were injured on the plays identified in the documents.

10. When interviewed in 2012, Sean Payton claimed to be entirely unaware of the program, a claim contradicted by others. Further, prior to the Saints’ opening game in 2011, Coach Payton received an email from a close associate that stated in part, “PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers (sic).” When shown the email during the course of the investigation, Coach Payton stated that it referred to a “bounty” on Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers.



throw in the fact that someone outside of the team/nfl was funding some of these bounties, and you have your trifecta:

bounties being paid for by outside parties
players injured on bounties
coaches lying to nfl about bounties

drop the hammer

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 12:04 PM
What's the over/under for a defensive captain putting a $10,000 bounty on the opposing QB in the NFCC? I'm thinking 8 game suspension.

Only question is what the CBA allows. The coaches/GMs aren't covered by that, so the Commish has carte blanche.

talastan
03-21-2012, 12:05 PM
Any word on whether we've traded for Brees yet? ;)

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 12:05 PM
So the second Saints forum is this one: http://blackandgold.com/saints/

Three of the first four threads are:

- just have Payton and the guys work under the table
- who was the snitch (it was your own players, dummy)
- should the Saints sit out the season in protest

I've always heard that New Orleans is a corrupt place. Apparently it's true.

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 12:06 PM
throw in the fact that someone outside of the team/nfl was funding some of these bounties, and you have your trifecta:

bounties being paid for by outside parties
players injured on bounties
coaches lying to nfl about bounties

drop the hammer


This is really about all you need to know.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 12:06 PM
Should the Saints sit out the season in protest? ROFL God I hate stupid people.

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 12:08 PM
So the second Saints forum is this one: http://blackandgold.com/saints/

Three of the first four threads are:

- just have Payton and the guys work under the table
- who was the snitch (it was your own players, dummy)
- should the Saints sit out the season in protest

I've always heard that New Orleans is a corrupt place. Apparently it's true.

There's a new one: "Vote Saints Defense for Madden 2012 Cover".

ROFL

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 12:08 PM
Then maybe football's not your sport. Why would my coach teach me to hit hard rather than simply leg tackling? Easy answer, it's because by blowing up a player it's going to get him thinking and affect the outcome of the game.

That's what hard hits are about.

Again, I am not talking about hard hits and tackles in the scope of the game. I'm talking about late hits, cheap shots, and extracurricular hits.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 12:08 PM
Any word on whether we've traded for Brees yet? ;)

It takes time. To save money, the Chiefs don't have telephones in their offices, so they have to use the pay phone down near the 7-11. Some guy is on it now buying marijuana so they're waiting.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 12:09 PM
The fans want to boycott the NFL now. :D

KCtotheSB
03-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Holy shit, the banhammer came down hard on the Saints...

bevischief
03-21-2012, 12:11 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/all-teams-must-certify-that-bounty-programs-are-not-being-used/

In addition to imposing severe punishment against multiple individuals involved in the Saints’ bounty program, Commissioner Roger Goodell has required all teams to certify that they currently maintain no similar systems.

“In a memo to NFL clubs, Commissioner Goodell directed the principal owner of every NFL team to meet with the head coach and confirm that the club does not operate a similar pay-for-performance or bounty program and to instruct his coach that no such program is permissible and that if such a program exists, it must be terminated immediately,” the NFL said in a release. (It’s unclear whether any sort of amnesty will apply to teams that currently maintain a bounty program, and that terminate it in response to the league’s directive.)

Teams already are required on an annual basis to sign documentation certifying full compliance with rules relating to the integrity of the game. The certifications will now be modified to include specific reference to bounties and other “pay-for-performance” programs.

Such procedures will force teams not only to avoid establishing such systems but also to actively police the locker room to ensure that players aren’t maintaining similar programs without the direct involvement of the team.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-21-2012, 12:11 PM
Jay Glazer‏@JayGlazerReply
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In all this, saints make a move by signing Brodrick Bunkley 5yrs $25m with $9m grntd.

...and the Broncos already shitty DT crop, just got crappier.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 12:11 PM
There's a new one: "Vote Saints Defense for Madden 2012 Cover".

ROFL

ROFL


Another one that is unintentionally hilarious is "Where's our motivation?"

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 12:12 PM
So....anybody think Goodell is going to get booed at the Superbowl this year?

Think he even shows up? LMAO

Rams Fan
03-21-2012, 12:13 PM
So....anybody think Goodell is going to get booed at the Superbowl this year?

Think he even shows up? LMAO

ROFL

Make it like the NHL and boo Goodell presenting the Lombardi.

LMAO

Iowanian
03-21-2012, 12:14 PM
Hurricane Goodell just made Katrina look like a fart.

Beer Looter is back on the prowl.

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 12:15 PM
Then maybe football's not your sport. Why would my coach teach me to hit hard rather than simply leg tackling? Easy answer, it's because by blowing up a player it's going to get him thinking and affect the outcome of the game.

That's what hard hits are about.


You dont' seem to understand the difference between:

1. hard, clean football; and


2. a. salary cap violations

b. encouraging illegal hits

c. lying to the NFL

d. disobeying the directions of your team owner

e. accepting funds from completely unrelated third parties and giving them to your players to encourage them to HURT (not legally hit/tackle, but HURT) opposing players, which isn't just a salary cap violation, it's a massive failure in judgment in every conceivable way.



Let me put it this way -- the bounty was NOT for sacks, fumbles, interceptions or tackles for a loss. IT WAS SPECIFICALLY FOR INJURIES!!!

Oh, and P.S., you've lost any right you've ever had to criticize the Broncos for salary cap violations. Just FYI.

Iowanian
03-21-2012, 12:15 PM
I'll bet New Orleans fanbase feels like Warden Norton just cast them down to the sodomites.

J Diddy
03-21-2012, 12:15 PM
Again, I am not talking about hard hits and tackles in the scope of the game. I'm talking about late hits, cheap shots, and extracurricular hits.

All of which are illegal, my question is how many of those occured while GW was the dc?

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 12:16 PM
So I wonder why Peyton Manning wasn't named as one of the QBs they had hits out on. Is that because the Superbowl was to high profile of a game to try and take him out?

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-21-2012, 12:17 PM
Who dat say dey gonna suspend dem Saints???

That noise in Wiscy is the sound of the Saints bandwagon migrating to Lambeau ROFL

SNR
03-21-2012, 12:17 PM
Any chance we beat the Saints this year in a game that was supposed to be harder than frozen tits?

notorious
03-21-2012, 12:17 PM
I was just on a New Orleans forum page, and I am disappointed.


We have bigger meltdowns over Thomas Jones sucking then they are having over their franchise getting leveled.

RockChalk
03-21-2012, 12:18 PM
I'll bet New Orleans fanbase feels like Warden Norton just cast them down to the sodomites.

somebody has been watching AMC lately

chiefzilla1501
03-21-2012, 12:18 PM
All of which are illegal, my question is how many of those occured while GW was the dc?

I don't know. I know they said in the article they were the most penalized. I'm more concerned of WHEN it was happening. It happened during the playoffs. If it didn't happen for 18 games, then happened in a playoff game, that concerns me the most.

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 12:19 PM
All of which are illegal, my question is how many of those occured while GW was the dc?

Saints were top 5 in both roughing the passer for 2009, '10 and '11, top 5 in unnecessary roughness in 2009 and '11, and 6th in 2010.

So they were consisently in the top for the two main categories of measuring illegal hits.


4. In each of the 2009-2011 seasons, the Saints were one of the top five teams in the league in roughing the passer penalties. In 2009 and 2011, the Saints were also in the top five teams in unnecessary roughness penalties; in 2010, the Saints ranked sixth in the category. In the January 16, 2010 divisional playoff game against the Arizona Cardinals, Saints defensive players were assessed $15,000 in fines for fouls committed against opposing players. The following week, in the NFC Championship Game against the Minnesota Vikings, Saints defensive players were assessed $30,000 in fines for four separate illegal hits, several of which were directed against quarterback Brett Favre.

Amnorix
03-21-2012, 12:20 PM
I don't know. I know they said in the article they were the most penalized. I'm more concerned of WHEN it was happening. It happened during the playoffs. If it didn't happen for 18 games, then happened in a playoff game, that concerns me the most.

See my prior post. Ranked top 5 (or 6) in the two big categories during regular seasons 2009, 2010 and 2011, and then specific bad acts with proven bounties behind them during Super Bowl run of 2009.

Why is anyone surprised by the severity of the punishment?

notorious
03-21-2012, 12:20 PM
We already have more posts in this one thread then their entire front page.

J Diddy
03-21-2012, 12:21 PM
You dont' seem to understand the difference between:

1. hard, clean football; and


2. a. salary cap violations

b. encouraging illegal hits

c. lying to the NFL

d. disobeying the directions of your team owner

e. accepting funds from completely unrelated third parties and giving them to your players to encourage them to HURT (not legally hit/tackle, but HURT) opposing players, which isn't just a salary cap violation, it's a massive failure in judgment in every conceivable way.



Let me put it this way -- the bounty was NOT for sacks, fumbles, interceptions or tackles for a loss. IT WAS SPECIFICALLY FOR INJURIES!!!

Oh, and P.S., you've lost any right you've ever had to criticize the Broncos for salary cap violations. Just FYI.

One I never did. Two I understand quite clear. My question is there a place to find the number of late hits, etc penalties by year to see if there is a connection. Finally I spoke not to the financial or moral side of anything. I spoke only to the physical side of the game.


Mr. lawyer, youre leading.

J Diddy
03-21-2012, 12:27 PM
See my prior post. Ranked top 5 (or 6) in the two big categories during regular seasons 2009, 2010 and 2011, and then specific bad acts with proven bounties behind them during Super Bowl run of 2009.

Why is anyone surprised by the severity of the punishment?

Which was my question. I wanted to know the difference between hard play and cheating play.

Obviously there are salary cap implications and a violation of the intent of the game. I just wanted to know how the players interpreted a knock them on their ass. If hard play was the intent or dirty play.

jspchief
03-21-2012, 12:34 PM
I think a big factor in the severity of the punishment is the fact that the offending parties continued to do it even after they knew they were being investigated.

DementedLogic
03-21-2012, 12:38 PM
TPZCVCZNc50

bevischief
03-21-2012, 12:41 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/jeff-fisher-will-meet-the-media-at-330-p-m-et/

Jeff Fisher will meet the media at 3:30 p.m. ET
Posted by Mike Florio on March 21, 2012, 2:23 PM EDT
File photo of New Orleans Saints' Williams watching his team prepare for NFL football game against Tampa Bay Buccaneers in New Orleans Reuters

With defensive coordinator Gregg Williams suspended indefinitely, the Rams suddenly don’t have a defensive coordinator. Head coach Jeff Fisher will meet with the media at 3:30 p.m. ET on Wednesday, presumably to discuss the team’s plans.

Previously, the Rams had remained silent on the issue of Williams’ status, deferring to the league’s disciplinary procedure. It has been reported that Dave McGinnis or Chuck Cecil could be asked to replace Williams.

The question becomes whether Williams will remain employed by the Rams at all. Technically, his status will be reviewed at the end of the 2012 season, and the Commissioner at that time will decide whether to reinstate Williams. The decision will be based in part on whether and to what extent Williams cooperates with the NFL in “any further proceedings.”

From the league’s perspective, it’s a smart move. If banned for life, Williams would have no incentive to testify in any arbitration proceedings that may be pursued by players who eventually will be disciplined. Now, with his career hanging in the balance, Williams will show up for any and every hearing that may occur.

Williams also could be involved in other investigations regarding bounties or pay-for-performance programs maintained in other cities where he coached.

Still, for the Rams the right move probably would be to essentially annul his employment and move on with McGinnis or Cecil. Then, if he’s reinstated, he can try to get an NFL job in the future — even though most owners surely will regard him as radioactive.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-21-2012, 12:41 PM
Well bye...

notorious
03-21-2012, 12:42 PM
There are a few malicious hits in there, but nothing you don't see every football Sunday.

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-21-2012, 12:51 PM
Lee Zurik‏@LeeZurikReply
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Former Saint Joe Horn says EVERY NFL team has a program like the Saints bounty program. Says in KC and ATL players were paid for cart offs.

Mile High Mania
03-21-2012, 12:52 PM
Cheaters...

Lee Zurik ‏ @LeeZurik Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Former Saint Joe Horn says EVERY NFL team has a program like the Saints bounty program. Says in KC and ATL players were paid for cart offs.
Retweeted by Jason La Canfora

FringeNC
03-21-2012, 12:52 PM
Saints were top 5 in both roughing the passer for 2009, '10 and '11, top 5 in unnecessary roughness in 2009 and '11, and 6th in 2010.

So they were consisently in the top for the two main categories of measuring illegal hits.


4. In each of the 2009-2011 seasons, the Saints were one of the top five teams in the league in roughing the passer penalties. In 2009 and 2011, the Saints were also in the top five teams in unnecessary roughness penalties; in 2010, the Saints ranked sixth in the category. In the January 16, 2010 divisional playoff game against the Arizona Cardinals, Saints defensive players were assessed $15,000 in fines for fouls committed against opposing players. The following week, in the NFC Championship Game against the Minnesota Vikings, Saints defensive players were assessed $30,000 in fines for four separate illegal hits, several of which were directed against quarterback Brett Favre.

Were any of the teams above them in the rankings consistently above them in the rankings? If so.....

Chiefnj2
03-21-2012, 12:53 PM
Cheaters...

Lee Zurik ‏ @LeeZurik Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Former Saint Joe Horn says EVERY NFL team has a program like the Saints bounty program. Says in KC and ATL players were paid for cart offs.
Retweeted by Jason La Canfora

Suspend Gunther.

Deberg_1990
03-21-2012, 12:54 PM
Gregg Williams.....The Pride of Excelsior Springs, Belton and Kirksville Mo.

FringeNC
03-21-2012, 12:54 PM
Suspend Gunther.

I'm guessing other teams in that division prefer that not happen.

WhiteWhale
03-21-2012, 12:57 PM
The Saints were cherry picked to 'set an example' to the rest of the league.

I dislike that type of thinking, but that's what's going on here because anyone who disputes this is a common practice might as well live in candy land.

bevischief
03-21-2012, 12:58 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/roger-goodell-stands-by-saints-suspensions-we-were-lied-to/

Roger Goodell stands by Saints’ suspensions: “We were lied to”
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 21, 2012, 2:44 PM EDT
Super Bowl XLVI Getty Images

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is confident that his unprecedented punishments in the Saints’ bounty scandal, including an indefinite suspension of former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and a yearlong suspension of head coach Sean Payton, were warranted given the facts of the case.

“I don’t think you can be too hard on people that put at risk our players’ health and safety,” Goodell said on NFL Network. “That is a critical issue for us going forward and has been in our past.”

Goodell said there’s no doubt in his mind that the Saints lied to the league office when the bounty investigation began.

“Clearly, we were lied to,” Goodell said. “We investigated this back in 2010, we were told it was not happening, it continued for another two years until we got credible evidence late in the 2011 season and we were able to identify significant information that verified from multiple sources that this was going on for a three-year period.”

Goodell said he’s disappointed in players who took part in the bounty program and will continue to consider player discipline.

“We have a serious violation of an existing rule that threatens the health and welfare of our players,” Goodell said. “In addition, this went on for three years and it was investigated, we were misled, and there were denials throughout that period. Meanwhile, there continued to be risk to our players and to the integrity of our game. So it calls for a very significant and clear message.”

It’s a message that Williams and Payton heard loud and clear today.

Jerm
03-21-2012, 01:05 PM
I wonder if any legal ramifications migh come about from this? RICO statute? IRS penalties...tax fraud etc?

WV
03-21-2012, 01:07 PM
Can't believe these punishments.

Chocolate Hog
03-21-2012, 01:08 PM
Wow.

BigMeatballDave
03-21-2012, 01:11 PM
They are not fucking around with this.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 01:14 PM
There are a few malicious hits in there, but nothing you don't see every football Sunday.


Yeah, actually I was thinking the same thing (referring to Post 204). Other than the running play, I'm not sure I'd call any of those a penalty.

That doesn't change my support of the punishments, though, just to be clear.

Frazod
03-21-2012, 01:15 PM
The Saints were cherry picked to 'set an example' to the rest of the league.

I dislike that type of thinking, but that's what's going on here because anyone who disputes this is a common practice might as well live in candy land.

Notice they found a non-big market, non east coast team to make an example of.

I'm sure that's just a coincidence, though. Just like I'm sure all those blatant holds Bronco offensive linemen get away with next year right in front of the officials will be "honest mistakes." :rolleyes:

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 01:15 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/jeff-fisher-will-meet-the-media-at-330-p-m-et/

Jeff Fisher will meet the media at 3:30 p.m. ET
Posted by Mike Florio on March 21, 2012, 2:23 PM EDT
File photo of New Orleans Saints' Williams watching his team prepare for NFL football game against Tampa Bay Buccaneers in New Orleans Reuters

With defensive coordinator Gregg Williams suspended indefinitely, the Rams suddenly don’t have a defensive coordinator. Head coach Jeff Fisher will meet with the media at 3:30 p.m. ET on Wednesday, presumably to discuss the team’s plans.

Previously, the Rams had remained silent on the issue of Williams’ status, deferring to the league’s disciplinary procedure. It has been reported that Dave McGinnis or Chuck Cecil could be asked to replace Williams.

The question becomes whether Williams will remain employed by the Rams at all. Technically, his status will be reviewed at the end of the 2012 season, and the Commissioner at that time will decide whether to reinstate Williams. The decision will be based in part on whether and to what extent Williams cooperates with the NFL in “any further proceedings.”

From the league’s perspective, it’s a smart move. If banned for life, Williams would have no incentive to testify in any arbitration proceedings that may be pursued by players who eventually will be disciplined. Now, with his career hanging in the balance, Williams will show up for any and every hearing that may occur.

Williams also could be involved in other investigations regarding bounties or pay-for-performance programs maintained in other cities where he coached.

Still, for the Rams the right move probably would be to essentially annul his employment and move on with McGinnis or Cecil. Then, if he’s reinstated, he can try to get an NFL job in the future — even though most owners surely will regard him as radioactive.


There's a funny irony in the fact that Chuck Cecil might get promoted as a result of suspensions over trying to injure other players.

Lzen
03-21-2012, 01:20 PM
TPZCVCZNc50

I fail to see much there. Maybe one or two questionable hits on the QB. Maybe.

ChiefaRoo
03-21-2012, 01:23 PM
Pray all you want. there is no way the Chiefs would go after him.

Brees is the modern day version of Len Dawson. If there was ever a chance to get him KC would be insane not to. They should of drafted him to begin with... as I've been saying for years.

BigChiefFan
03-21-2012, 01:25 PM
Wow. I didn't see the one year suspension coming.

BigMeatballDave
03-21-2012, 01:26 PM
I could see 4-6 games. This is excessive.

Phobia
03-21-2012, 01:26 PM
Harsh, no doubt. I wonder what happens to Payton if the Saints win their division in 2012. Wonder if Williams takes a college job for a couple years. All very strange precedent setting punishments for the NFL. I'm not terribly opposed but if this is what the commish is throwing down here, he really needs to start doling out harsher punishments for other forms of cheating too.

Frazod
03-21-2012, 01:27 PM
Brees is the modern day version of Len Dawson. If there was ever a chance to get him KC would be insane not to. They should of drafted him to begin with... as I've been saying for years.

Cassel is and will remain our starter. Insanity established and verified. :sulk:

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-21-2012, 01:28 PM
Pro Football Weekly‏@ProFootballWklyReply
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Per Warren Sapp (@QBKILLA), it was former #Saints TE Jeremy Shockey who first informed the #NFL of New Orleans' bounty program.

Dr. Gigglepants
03-21-2012, 01:28 PM
Sean Payton has such a clean cut image, at least to me. This makes me think that if he is presiding over a team that is doing this, than it is definitely happening in a lot of other places as well.

Now that the punishment bar has been set so high, I bet a lot of coaches around the league are getting nervous.

J Diddy
03-21-2012, 01:28 PM
Warren Sapp ‏ @QBKILLA

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BINGO! RT @elnicastro: Shockey..? RT QBKILLA: Just Heard Who The Snitch Was


Didn't know Shockey was the snitch.

Phobia
03-21-2012, 01:29 PM
I fail to see much there. Maybe one or two questionable hits on the QB. Maybe.

See a lot of crappy offensive line play, that's for sure. Bounty aside, those offensive linemen should be fined as well. Failure to show up to play.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 01:30 PM
Hmm.....who do you think they're next target will be?

notorious
03-21-2012, 01:31 PM
Warren Sapp ‏ @QBKILLA

Reply
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BINGO! RT @elnicastro: Shockey..? RT QBKILLA: Just Heard Who The Snitch Was


Didn't know Shockey was the snitch.



Ohhhhhhhh my.


That guy is going to get blackballed by every player in the NFL.

pr_capone
03-21-2012, 01:31 PM
Cassel is and will remain our starter. Insanity established and verified. :sulk:

Shit... opposing teams put a bounty out to get their players to help him up off the ground and avoid hitting him overly hard as having him on the field improves their chances of winning.

talastan
03-21-2012, 01:33 PM
Warren Sapp ‏ @QBKILLA

Reply
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BINGO! RT @elnicastro: Shockey..? RT QBKILLA: Just Heard Who The Snitch Was


Didn't know Shockey was the snitch.

DBowe: Finally someone to take the focus off that importing comment. ;)

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-21-2012, 01:33 PM
mike freeman‏@realfreemancbsReply
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Shockey was not the Bountygate source. Repeat: he wasn't. Not true. And I don't even like Shockey.

pr_capone
03-21-2012, 01:34 PM
Warren Sapp ‏ @QBKILLA

Reply
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BINGO! RT @elnicastro: Shockey..? RT QBKILLA: Just Heard Who The Snitch Was


Didn't know Shockey was the snitch.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1296/1377930593_a465a914ae_o.gif

the Talking Can
03-21-2012, 01:34 PM
the saints had been warned once to quit

they lied to the league and kept doing it

they deserved to get hammered

|Zach|
03-21-2012, 01:36 PM
It is more than I expected but I don't at all have a problem with it.

Rain Man
03-21-2012, 01:38 PM
I could've sworn that the whole thing happened because of some special teams players talking about targeting a punt returner with a concussion history. Wasn't that the Saints? Based on their quotes, everyone started standing up saying, "Wha-?"

Maybe Shockey or someone else whistleblew (better than snitched) in 2010, but I thought the interviews started it in 2011/2012.

SPchief
03-21-2012, 01:50 PM
Jabari Greer Saints CB on ESPN won't answer yes or no if they had bounties. Just saying that they have integrity.

Cave Johnson
03-21-2012, 01:53 PM
Kent Babb ‏ @kentbabb

If you missed my story last Sunday in the @KCStar, Excelsior Springs native Gregg Williams' friends say he fears a lifetime ban is coming.

See post #2.

ClevelandBronco
03-21-2012, 01:53 PM
Yeah, that's a good point. I was just coming back into the thread to post that, too.

But yeah, **** the Broncos and Peyton Manning.

Couldn't agree more.

Chiefnj2
03-21-2012, 01:56 PM
Maybe Williams will help MoHillbilly on his farm.

Pestilence
03-21-2012, 01:57 PM
See post #2.

He's suspended indefinitely....not life.

Xanathol
03-21-2012, 01:59 PM
My problems with this...

1. The investigation was opened in 2009 and closed for over a year, when some "unnamed source" supposedly brought this evidence - that no one outside of the NFL ( note: not even the NFLPA ) has actually seen - to the NFL's attention. Is this 'evidence' even real? Who brought it, particularly for a 'closed' case? Why not let the NFLPA see it?

2. Former players of the Redskins, Bills, Titans, and Jags have all said GW ran the same kind of program when he was with their team. Many players around the league have stated their team or former team had a similar program. Why are none of those teams penalized in this?

3. This year alone, Suggs spoke on TV about targeting a player. The 49ers admitted going after Pierre Thomas to "knock him out the game" in the playoffs. The Giants admitted targeting Kyle Williams' head because they knew he had concussion problems. Where are the penalties for them?

4. Belichik cheated over the course of multiple years, directly influencing the intergrity of the game, yet the Patriots were fined and removed of a single 1st round pick. How is that less than this?

5. Most importantly, this is football - no matter how much Goodell wants to turn it into flag football. Every single player wants to knock the other player's junk in the dirt. The game is meant to be violent, with big hits. A $1000 'reward' for a big hit to a player making a few millions ( not to mention risking being fined $10,000+ ) is the NFL version of a helmet sticker. Against the rules? Ok - but penalize appropriately and hit every team that has done it.


Were there dirty hits? I didn't see them, but if they were, were they not caught and dealt with already ( flags and fines ), making this double jeopardy? Why did the Saints not LEAD in all the categories RG mentioned to 'signify dirty play'? What does it say about the teams who did lead in those penalties? For the penalties the Saints did get, how many were justified and not the result of over protection to the rumors at the time?

The Saints should sue the NFL ( ie RG and the other owners ). This screams of fabrication ( ie refusal to name source or show 'documents/evidence' ), collusion ( no other teams penalized ), and just an outright conspiracy over not getting the storybook ending to Farve's career, which is when this whole thing first gained steam.

dirk digler
03-21-2012, 02:02 PM
throw in the fact that someone outside of the team/nfl was funding some of these bounties, and you have your trifecta:

bounties being paid for by outside parties
players injured on bounties
coaches lying to nfl about bounties

drop the hammer

Yep. Punishment seems fair to me. Payton is probably lucky he isn't banned for life as well.

TEX
03-21-2012, 02:02 PM
I bet if Denver did something like this they would just lose a 7th round draft pick or something...

The Dawg
03-21-2012, 02:06 PM
Man o man.

Never saw this coming. :shake: