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View Full Version : Chiefs Quarterback Competition? (from Gretz)


chiefzilla1501
03-23-2012, 05:07 PM
http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/quarterback-competition-weekend-cup-ochiefs.html

Great article by Gretz. Explains the outrage over the QB situation.

If Romeo and Pioli were genuine about wanting a QB competition, they wouldn't be telling the world about who our starting QB is. There's clearly an indescribable boner fest for a QB who's not very good.

TRR
03-23-2012, 05:13 PM
Highly disagree. You name your starter and if you starter is beat out by a newly acquired player than so be it. That's part of the competition. What you don't do is go into camp saying we have no clue who are starter is. That does nothing but create doubt in the locker room, opens the door to player picking their horse all while shaking the confidence of both QB candidates and eliminating reps for both.

They are handling it the right way.
Posted via Mobile Device

Guru
03-23-2012, 05:15 PM
same story different day

SNR
03-23-2012, 05:33 PM
Highly disagree. You name your starter and if you starter is beat out by a newly acquired player than so be it. That's part of the competition. What you don't do is go into camp saying we have no clue who are starter is. That does nothing but create doubt in the locker room, opens the door to player picking their horse all while shaking the confidence of both QB candidates and eliminating reps for both.

They are handling it the right way.
Posted via Mobile DeviceWill Crennel legitimately start the best QB from training camp and preseason if he proves he is better than Cassel?

Probably not.

chiefzilla1501
03-23-2012, 05:37 PM
Highly disagree. You name your starter and if you starter is beat out by a newly acquired player than so be it. That's part of the competition. What you don't do is go into camp saying we have no clue who are starter is. That does nothing but create doubt in the locker room, opens the door to player picking their horse all while shaking the confidence of both QB candidates and eliminating reps for both.

They are handling it the right way.
Posted via Mobile Device

Shaking confidence?

Isn't it about time we made it clear to Cassel that he has to earn the right to his job? We need to stop coddling the guy. The more reps Cassel gets in the preseason, the more it becomes clear that there is no QB competition. Brady Quinn isn't going to win a QB job by getting half the practice reps Cassel does, most of them being with a second team of receivers.

And I don't understand how it shakes the confidence of Quinn or Stanzi. I would think the fact that they have a chance to start would motivate them to work harder.

We've seen this drill before. No QB is going to lose his starting job in the preseason. QBs always struggle and coaches stick with them. Because they know it's the preseason. I think it would take some kind of miracle for any QB but Cassel to be starting for us to start 2012.

BossChief
03-23-2012, 05:44 PM
Ask anyone that knows me and theyll tell you there are times when I get mental road blocks in my thinking pathways. The wife, my daughters, my sister, even my Mom would all say that sometimes you have to explain things to me in the simplest of terms, like I was a fifth-grader trying to understand quantum physics.

Im having one of those episodes with this quarterback competition and the Chiefs. I keep hearing one thing, but apparently those speaking about a competitive situation at quarterback mean something different, because I do not understand the explanation in conjunction with actions.

Back in early February, Chiefs GM Scott Pioli said the following:

Weve been saying it for three years, and Im going to continue to say it, because its a core part of our philosophy: There will be increased competition at every position, including the quarterback position. Who that is, I dont know very few people can perform at an extremely high level without competition.

As I read that comment from Pioli I dont find a lot of gray area. There will be increased competition at quarterback because its tough for anyone to get better without competition. Thats what I hear him saying.

Yet, somewhere between what hes saying, my understanding and what hes actually doing, theres a disconnection. Its about six weeks after that first comment and now Pioli says theres competition for Cassel in the house. NFL free agency is more than a week old and the greatest free agent in NFL history became available on the open market and just happened to be a quarterback.

And the Chiefs answer to increased competition for Matt Cassel at the quarterback position is Brady Quinn?

I know competition makes everybody better, and well just have to see what kind of competition were going to have at the quarterback position, Romeo Crennel said back in February.

When they signed Quinn to a one-year contract earlier this week, Pioli and Crennel told him that Cassel was the Chiefs No. 1 quarterback.

They stated that Matt Cassel is the starting quarterback right now and thats where things are, Quinn told the Kansas City media. But obviously there is going to be competition, like there should be on every team in every room. Competition makes everyone better.

Even Quinn seems to be caught in the spider web of words being spewed about competition and the quarterback position. Hes been told Cassel is the starter. Yet hes buying the legend that there is going to be competition for the starting job.

In an attempt to clear my confusion, I made a visit to Mr. Webster. He defines competition as:

The act of competing; rivalry; a contest or match; official participation in organized sport; effective opposition in a contest or match; striving for the same object, position or prize in according with certain fixed rules; keen competition between opponents more or less evenly matched.

Certain fixed rules? Opponents more or less evenly matched? At every level and angle of looking at the Chiefs quarterback depth chart I dont see competition in any fixed rules. Opponents that are evenly matched for the competition are nowhere to be seen.

Pioli is playing word games and its hard to tell whether hes doing it for the sake of Chiefs fans, players, or his ownership. Maybe its all about covering his behind since Cassel is connected to him in a big way. Thats a $63 million umbilical cord between GM and quarterback and its important for Pioli that Cassel is successful to validate his decision to not only trade for the quarterback, but to hand him that big contract before hed even played a down for the team.

As Pioli has explained several times in the last few weeks, his definition of competition basically comes down to signing two other quarterbacks to work in practice with Cassel. Thus the mere act of going out and signing Quinn means there is competition.

In the immortal words of Waylon Jennings:

You think that you can say some words and take away the hurt. And Ill still be your number one.

But when it aint working out we got a saying down South; Baby that dog wont hunt.

As much as Cassel needs the competition to improve, hes not going to see it battling against the likes of Quinn and Ricky Stanzi. The fixed rules the starting quarterback is going to get two out of every three snaps in the off-season and training camp. The other one-third will likely be split 50-50 between the other quarterbacks. So in the average training camp practice, Cassel will throw in the neighborhood of 45 to 50 passes in team work and passing drills. Quinn will get 15 to 20 and Stanzi will see 10 to 15 passes.

How is that competition?

In the last two seasons (2010-11) Cassel has played in 24 of 32 regular season games, thrown 719 passes, 37 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. In the last two seasons, Quinn has played zero of 32 regular season games, thus not throwing a pass, touchdown or interception. Stanzi did not play in any of 16 games last year, his first in the league.

How is that competition?

Chiefs fans want to be excited about the moves made in the last week by the team. And, there are decisions that are worthy of being praised, particularly Eric Winston at right tackle, and the addition of Kevin Boss at tight end.

But Stanford Routt is not Brandon Carr on the corner, and Brady Quinn is not competition at quarterback for Cassel. If he is, then the Chiefs have a problem bigger than anybody anticipated. Is Quinn better than Tyler Palko? Yes, but please, talk about damning someone with faint praise!

Under Piolis definition Tyler Thigpen, Brodie Croyle and Palko were competitors for Matt Cassel.

Im just so confused.

KCChiefsFan88
03-23-2012, 05:49 PM
Bob Gretz has actually become a somewhat interesting read since he stopped sucking off Dictator Carl.

Too bad the dickless piece of garbage, SNR can't capture similar magic with his game, now that he's been forced to fend for himself on this message board, since Hamas exiled himself with a bet he knew he couldn't win.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-23-2012, 05:51 PM
Cassel is going to compete with his alter ego Hatt.

jspchief
03-23-2012, 05:54 PM
Shaking confidence?

Isn't it about time we made it clear to Cassel that he has to earn the right to his job? We need to stop coddling the guy. The more reps Cassel gets in the preseason, the more it becomes clear that there is no QB competition. Brady Quinn isn't going to win a QB job by getting half the practice reps Cassel does, most of them being with a second team of receivers.

And I don't understand how it shakes the confidence of Quinn or Stanzi. I would think the fact that they have a chance to start would motivate them to work harder.

We've seen this drill before. No QB is going to lose his starting job in the preseason. QBs always struggle and coaches stick with them. Because they know it's the preseason. I think it would take some kind of miracle for any QB but Cassel to be starting for us to start 2012.

You said everything I wanted to say.

BossChief
03-23-2012, 05:54 PM
Ummmmmmm

Hamas didn't lose a bet, he made a comment and stood by his word, you pussy.

morphius
03-23-2012, 05:56 PM
I have to wonder if by competition Pioli meant Orton, Manning or moving up in the draft to get RGIII. When those fell through he got stuck with a 1 year deal with Quinn. I mean you really can't have a competition with a guy signed up for a 1 year deal.

What a mess.

KCChiefsFan88
03-23-2012, 05:58 PM
Ummmmmmm

Hamas didn't lose a bet, he made a comment and stood by his word, you pussy.

Bullshit.

Hamas found a convenient way to bail after getting massacred on this message board.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-23-2012, 06:00 PM
:popcorn:

Count Zarth
03-23-2012, 06:05 PM
I have to wonder if by competition Pioli meant Orton, Manning or moving up in the draft to get RGIII. When those fell through he got stuck with a 1 year deal with Quinn. I mean you really can't have a competition with a guy signed up for a 1 year deal.

What a mess.

Pioli is an idiot who doesn't want to actually pay more than bottom dollar for legit competition.

BossChief
03-23-2012, 06:06 PM
I have to wonder if by competition Pioli meant Orton, Manning or moving up in the draft to get RGIII. When those fell through he got stuck with a 1 year deal with Quinn. I mean you really can't have a competition with a guy signed up for a 1 year deal.

What a mess.We also made an offer to Drew Stanton.

Bullshit.

Hamas found a convenient way to bail after getting massacred on this message board.
haha

1 Hamas is worth 1,000 of you.

BossChief
03-23-2012, 06:11 PM
Pioli is an idiot who doesn't want to actually pay more than bottom dollar for legit competition.

Well, he did offer more to Drew Stanton that others.

Mr_Tomahawk
03-23-2012, 06:13 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=257712

Deberg_1990
03-23-2012, 06:15 PM
Pioli is an idiot who doesn't want to actually pay more than bottom dollar for legit competition.


Isn't it Clarks money and his decision ultimately?
Posted via Mobile Device

Epic Fail 007
03-23-2012, 06:17 PM
Highly disagree. You name your starter and if you starter is beat out by a newly acquired player than so be it. That's part of the competition. What you don't do is go into camp saying we have no clue who are starter is. That does nothing but create doubt in the locker room, opens the door to player picking their horse all while shaking the confidence of both QB candidates and eliminating reps for both.

They are handling it the right way.
Posted via Mobile Device

Agree this issue is where many here just jump to assumptions without thinking.

SNR
03-23-2012, 06:19 PM
Bob Gretz has actually become a somewhat interesting read since he stopped sucking off Dictator Carl.

Too bad the dickless piece of garbage, SNR can't capture similar magic with his game, now that he's been forced to fend for himself on this message board, since Hamas exiled himself with a bet he knew he couldn't win.There's so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin.

J Diddy
03-23-2012, 06:20 PM
There's so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin.

Begin with the name. That's usually all it takes for me to ignore the dipshit.

Cannibal
03-23-2012, 06:20 PM
Highly disagree. You name your starter and if you starter is beat out by a newly acquired player than so be it. That's part of the competition. What you don't do is go into camp saying we have no clue who are starter is. That does nothing but create doubt in the locker room, opens the door to player picking their horse all while shaking the confidence of both QB candidates and eliminating reps for both.

They are handling it the right way.
Posted via Mobile Device

Despite my complete lack of confidence in Cassel, I lean towards your line of thinking. From what I understand, Crennel has already dealt with QB controversies. Hopefully he's learned from his mistakes in the past.

HemiEd
03-23-2012, 09:47 PM
Good article, right on the money. He kept it very civil, so it might actually get some play.:clap:

Instead of just flat saying Cassel sucks, and we are fucked because he is still on the roster, he was really civil.

Bane
03-23-2012, 09:58 PM
Lol. The pile of shit back up we just signed means Casshole will only lose his gig to injury. The end.

Setsuna
03-23-2012, 10:07 PM
This thread is dumb. Everyone has already discussed this.

TEX
03-23-2012, 10:26 PM
Nothing confusing. Cassel will cost KC games. He will hod the Chiefs back. Routt is NO Carr. He too will cost the Chiefs big time this year. Pioli is bad for the Chiefs. Plain as day.

kcpasco
03-23-2012, 11:11 PM
Lol. The pile of shit back up we just signed means Casshole will only lose his gig to injury. The end.

Yep

whoman69
03-23-2012, 11:30 PM
If you have a player that is not getting the job done, you don't rubber stamp them a starter. You don't leave a player in place that has been proven a failure. Pioli made sure there was going to be no competition by signing a player that hasn't played in the last two years and prior to that was no great shakes. Cassel has been coddled enough. You don't name someone a starter before they even put on the pads. You maybe put them #1 on the depth chart, but nobody put that in stone. You said you were going to bring in competition for Cassel, now you say there is none. That's really going to push Cassel to his best:rolleyes:.

Our only hope is Stanzi worked his ass off and will show everyone he can take over, because I certainly have no confidence in Quinn.

boogblaster
03-23-2012, 11:34 PM
its a frickin mess ... as always .....

Bump
03-23-2012, 11:36 PM
Will Crennel legitimately start the best QB from training camp and preseason if he proves he is better than Cassel?

Probably not.

absolutely not, the look at the contracts to decide who is starter and backup

chiefzilla1501
03-24-2012, 08:01 AM
Nothing confusing. Cassel will cost KC games. He will hod the Chiefs back. Routt is NO Carr. He too will cost the Chiefs big time this year. Pioli is bad for the Chiefs. Plain as day.

But right tackles and running backs are more important to a teams success than quarterbacks and corners, right?

Marcellus
03-24-2012, 08:52 AM
Nothing confusing. Cassel will cost KC games. He will hod the Chiefs back. Routt is NO Carr. He too will cost the Chiefs big time this year. Pioli is bad for the Chiefs. Plain as day.

What is the fixation with Carr on CP? Was he a really good player? Yes, is he the backbone of the defense? No.

And despite all the homer ball washing Routt has been rated a better player the last 3 years. You simply can't ignore that unless you just want to bitch just to bitch.

Could the be a drop off this season? Maybe but it will only be slight barring a huge shift in career direction for Routt.

I predict with the return of Berry the defense and secondary will be even better this year and won't be the weak link. Quit your ****ing whining about Carr.

rico
03-24-2012, 09:47 AM
What is the fixation with Carr on CP? Was he a really good player? Yes, is he the backbone of the defense? No.

And despite all the homer ball washing Routt has been rated a better player the last 3 years. You simply can't ignore that unless you just want to bitch just to bitch.

Could the be a drop off this season? Maybe but it will only be slight barring a huge shift in career direction for Routt.

I predict with the return of Berry the defense and secondary will be even better this year and won't be the weak link. Quit your ****ing whining about Carr.

Lol, I remember there being multiple moments in game threads (mostly 2010 when I was a lurker) where people were asking why the Chiefs hadn't cut him from the team.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-24-2012, 10:01 AM
Lol, I remember there being multiple moments in game threads (mostly 2010 when I was a lurker) where people were asking why the Chiefs hadn't cut him from the team.

Shit man that's nothing, did you read the crap spewed about Hali?

rico
03-24-2012, 10:04 AM
Shit man that's nothing, did you read the crap spewed about Hali?

Vaguely, I remember some people bashing him before the 2009 draft before we selected TJ.

TEX
03-24-2012, 10:12 AM
What is the fixation with Carr on CP? Was he a really good player? Yes, is he the backbone of the defense? No.

And despite all the homer ball washing Routt has been rated a better player the last 3 years. You simply can't ignore that unless you just want to bitch just to bitch.

Could the be a drop off this season? Maybe but it will only be slight barring a huge shift in career direction for Routt.

I predict with the return of Berry the defense and secondary will be even better this year and won't be the weak link. Quit your ****ing whining about Carr.

WRONG on so many levels. You just don't get it. Way deeper than surface depth with Carr. It's what he represented as much as it was his talent. Go stalk someone who's going to listen to your idiocy.

milkman
03-24-2012, 10:15 AM
WRONG on so many levels. Go stalk someone who's going to listen to your idiocy.

Please elaborate.

How is he wrong?

Routt did grade out better in PFF.

Berry isn't going to make a difference?

milkman
03-24-2012, 10:17 AM
What he represented?

Let me guess, you were one of the dumbasses that were calling for his head until last year, while some of us were defending him, saying that he was progressing.

TEX
03-24-2012, 10:21 AM
Please elaborate.

How is he wrong?

Routt did grade out better in PFF.

Berry isn't going to make a difference?

Sure King Tard - Routt was TOAST way more. And if you eat breakfast, BURNT TOAST can ruin the best of them. Berry is not going to be at full speed. You're absolutely misinformed if you think Berry is going to return to normal this quickly. He is going to have to play through it to get to where he was - if he even can by year's end. But then you did say that the Chiefs OL was just as good as the TEXANS last year, so I can't expect much out of one that comes up with that. Spin it how ever you want...

Catt Massel
03-24-2012, 10:22 AM
Great article by Gretz. Explains the outrage over the QB situation.

If Romeo and Pioli were genuine about wanting a QB competition, they wouldn't be telling the world about who our starting QB is. There's clearly an indescribable boner fest for a QB who's not very good.

What is "boner fest" ?

TEX
03-24-2012, 10:26 AM
What he represented?

Let me guess, you were one of the dumbasses that were calling for his head until last year, while some of us were defending him, saying that he was progressing.

Absolutely no guessing that you are a the biggest dumbass on the BB - Was Carr drafted by KC? YES. Did Piloi preach from day one about building through the draft - to sign one's own good players - Yes. He had the chance to do just that and he had the $$$. He did not. Carr represented the very idea of what Clark and Pioli said they wanted to do from day 1. Get it now? Probably not ...

milkman
03-24-2012, 10:33 AM
Sure King Tard - Routt was TOAST way more. And if you eat breakfast, BURNT TOAST can ruin the best of them. Berry is not going to be at full speed. You're absolutely misinformed if you think Berry is going to return to normal this quickly. He is going to have to play through it to get to where he was - if he even can by year's end. But then you did say that the Chiefs OL was just as good as the TEXANS last year, so I can't expect much out of one that comes up with that. Spin it how ever you want...

While the Chiefs don't assign #1 and #2 labels to their corners, Carr was lined up against opponent's #2 receivers about 75% of snaps, while Routt was lined up against opponent's #1 receivers 100% of snaps for the Raiders.

Since Berry will have had nearly a full year to recover from that torn ACL, he will much further along than a player that suffered that injury middle of the season or later, and I've torn the ACL and had knee reconstruction, so I am personally familiar with the recovery and rehab process.

It takes longer to fully recover if you try to rush back.

Since he won't be forced to do so, he won't have the setbacks that others have.

And show me, dumbass, where I said that the Chiefs O-Line was as good as the Texans last year.

milkman
03-24-2012, 10:36 AM
Absolutely no guessing that you are a the biggest dumbass on the BB - Was Carr drafted by KC? YES. Did Piloi preach from day one about building through the draft - to sign one's own good players - Yes. He had the chance to do just that and he had the $$$. He did not. Carr represented the very idea of what Clark and Pioli said they wanted to do from day 1. Get it now? Probably not ...

It is not surprising that you are too stupid to understand that, while you want to retain your players, even with plenty of cap space you still have to be fiscally smart, so as not to find yourself strapped against the cap in future years.

You simply can not tie up that much money into one positional group.

Just like you, it would be stupid.

Brock
03-24-2012, 10:38 AM
It is not surprising that you are too stupid to understand that, while you want to retain your players, even with plenty of cap space you still have to be fiscally smart, so as not to find yourself strapped against the cap in future years.

You simply can not tie up that much money into one positional group.

Just like you, it would be stupid.

You're arguing with the only tard on the board who thought it was smart to trade multiple high draft picks for Carson Palmer.

beach tribe
03-24-2012, 11:41 AM
While the Chiefs don't assign #1 and #2 labels to their corners, Carr was lined up against opponent's #2 receivers about 75% of snaps, while Routt was lined up against opponent's #1 receivers 100% of snaps for the Raiders.

Since Berry will have had nearly a full year to recover from that torn ACL, he will much further along than a player that suffered that injury middle of the season or later, and I've torn the ACL and had knee reconstruction, so I am personally familiar with the recovery and rehab process.

It takes longer to fully recover if you try to rush back.

Since he won't be forced to do so, he won't have the setbacks that others have.

And show me, dumbass, where I said that the Chiefs O-Line was as good as the Texans last year.

It's also a mental thing, or so I understand with Berry's knee, which I really don't think is going to be a problem with a guy like Berry. He's a baller. I don't think he's going to pay one bit of attention to his knee, considering he tried to stay in the game, and play after he had already torn the bitch up.

chiefzilla1501
03-24-2012, 11:41 AM
What is the fixation with Carr on CP? Was he a really good player? Yes, is he the backbone of the defense? No.

And despite all the homer ball washing Routt has been rated a better player the last 3 years. You simply can't ignore that unless you just want to bitch just to bitch.

Could the be a drop off this season? Maybe but it will only be slight barring a huge shift in career direction for Routt.

I predict with the return of Berry the defense and secondary will be even better this year and won't be the weak link. Quit your ****ing whining about Carr.

Carr is 3 years younger. Routt will be 29 this season. How many years does he have left? Yeah, we saved money, but if you lock up Carr to what ended up being a reasonable contract, you have the position locked up for the next 7-8 years.

Which is what we need. Because we don't have a QB today. We're not winning a Super Bowl within the window Routt is playing at his peak in.

beach tribe
03-24-2012, 11:43 AM
Absolutely no guessing that you are a the biggest dumbass on the BB

Irony explosion

beach tribe
03-24-2012, 11:48 AM
Carr is 3 years younger. Routt will be 29 this season. How many years does he have left? Yeah, we saved money, but if you lock up Carr to what ended up being a reasonable contract, you have the position locked up for the next 7-8 years.

Which is what we need. Because we don't have a QB today. We're not winning a Super Bowl within the window Routt is playing at his peak in.

Well if your estimation of having the position locked up for the next 7-8 years is correct, then Routt should have it locked up for the next 4-5 years...right?

whoman69
03-24-2012, 11:54 AM
Cornerbacks usually do not have much success after 30 when they start to slow down, much like receivers. There are exceptions of course. If they have the size they sometimes make the switch to safety.

J Diddy
03-24-2012, 11:56 AM
Carr is 3 years younger. Routt will be 29 this season. How many years does he have left? Yeah, we saved money, but if you lock up Carr to what ended up being a reasonable contract, you have the position locked up for the next 7-8 years.

Which is what we need. Because we don't have a QB today. We're not winning a Super Bowl within the window Routt is playing at his peak in.

I don't get how you get locking the position up for 7-8 years from him signing a 5 year contract.

Messier
03-24-2012, 11:56 AM
I wish we had Carr, but we knew he was going to get over paid, and he is. I wouldn't have wanted the Chiefs to pay him what he got, that would have been a questionable move. Having two of the highest paid CBs in the NFL would be spending in the wrong place. Flowers and Routt are still a good Cb tandem.

bricks
03-24-2012, 01:57 PM
I don't understand why people are still caught up and concerned over the loss of Carr?
Yeah he was a good corner, but he wasn't worth #1 CB money. Stanford Routt is good #2 corner. Plus, We will have a better passrush this year and healthy Berry back. This should be plenty to makeup for the loss of Carr.

I think we need to get out of the rut, think positive and move on.

The Bad Guy
03-24-2012, 02:33 PM
Bullshit.

Hamas found a convenient way to bail after getting massacred on this message board.

If that's what you think you small dicked faggot.

He honored his word about a Bronco bet.

Hamas could not post here for 10 years and he'd still be a more valuable asset to this board than you.

BossChief
03-24-2012, 02:55 PM
Everybody, remove the emotions from the equation.

Would you rather have

A) Brandon Carr

Or

B) Stanford Routt, a third round comp pick and Peyton Hillis or Kevin Boss

I'll take option b without question.

That's basically what this equates to in the end.

Carr got 10/yr
Routt got 6.5/yr
Boss and Hillis got 3/yr each
We are following the guidelines to receive a 3rd round comp pick from having him walk.

I hate to say it, but letting Carr walk was absolutely the right move for this franchise.

tk13
03-24-2012, 03:09 PM
CB's don't win Super Bowls. And teams that load up on them never seen to succeed. Look at the Eagles last year... or when the Chiefs got Law and Surtain. Didn't make a lick of difference. Meanwhile teams like the Giants, Pats and Steelers win titles with CB's most people couldn't name, and in New England they play offensive players at CB. You have to rush the passer. And that's probably even more true now since CB's can't do anything to WR's anyway.

BossChief
03-24-2012, 03:21 PM
CB's don't win Super Bowls. And teams that load up on them never seen to succeed. Look at the Eagles last year... or when the Chiefs got Law and Surtain. Didn't make a lick of difference. Meanwhile teams like the Giants, Pats and Steelers win titles with CB's most people couldn't name, and in New England they play offensive players at CB. You have to rush the passer. And that's probably even more true now since CB's can't do anything to WR's anyway.

Good post.

Only part I differ on is that having a good secondary can give your pass rush more time to get to the quarterback and vice versa, they feed off each other.

chiefzilla1501
03-24-2012, 03:34 PM
Everybody, remove the emotions from the equation.

Would you rather have

A) Brandon Carr

Or

B) Stanford Routt, a third round comp pick and Peyton Hillis or Kevin Boss

I'll take option b without question.

That's basically what this equates to in the end.

Carr got 10/yr
Routt got 6.5/yr
Boss and Hillis got 3/yr each
We are following the guidelines to receive a 3rd round comp pick from having him walk.

I hate to say it, but letting Carr walk was absolutely the right move for this franchise.

If we werecrunched against the cap, yes. Peytom Hillis in particular... His contract disappears after this year.

chiefzilla1501
03-24-2012, 03:37 PM
I don't understand why people are still caught up and concerned over the loss of Carr?
Yeah he was a good corner, but he wasn't worth #1 CB money. Stanford Routt is good #2 corner. Plus, We will have a better passrush this year and healthy Berry back. This should be plenty to makeup for the loss of Carr.

I think we need to get out of the rut, think positive and move on.

Because this team got cheap in a year where they have an extraordinary amount of cap space to spend. Some may call this a bargain buy. No matter which way you cut it, this was about money. And the money wasn't even outrageous.

The Bad Guy
03-24-2012, 03:39 PM
Everybody, remove the emotions from the equation.

Would you rather have

A) Brandon Carr

Or

B) Stanford Routt, a third round comp pick and Peyton Hillis or Kevin Boss

I'll take option b without question.

That's basically what this equates to in the end.

Carr got 10/yr
Routt got 6.5/yr
Boss and Hillis got 3/yr each
We are following the guidelines to receive a 3rd round comp pick from having him walk.

I hate to say it, but letting Carr walk was absolutely the right move for this franchise.

Absolutely it was.

You can't pay a 2nd corner 10 mill a year. No way.

Carr was a nice luxury. I'm not a Routt fan, but I trust the secondary coaches we have, along with Romeo to get the most out of him. The Raiders DC last year was dog shit.

The Bad Guy
03-24-2012, 03:41 PM
Because this team got cheap in a year where they have an extraordinary amount of cap space to spend. Some may call this a bargain buy. No matter which way you cut it, this was about money. And the money wasn't even outrageous.

So because they have money, you think spending about 18 million a year in 2 starting corners is a wise move?

That's bullshit logic. Just because you have money to spend, doesn't mean that you should tie up a player at an undesirable number. The Chiefs obviously don't feel that Carr = Flowers so why are they going to give Carr more than Flowers?

BossChief
03-24-2012, 03:42 PM
Just because you have a million dollars, doesnt mean you should go out and buy a 250,000 dollar Ferrari.

Especially if you can find far better ways to spend that money and you have a 100 mile commute to work each day.

Messier
03-24-2012, 03:52 PM
The Chiefs made their decision on CB when they gave Flowers his contract.

Marcellus
03-24-2012, 05:03 PM
WRONG on so many levels. You just don't get it. Way deeper than surface depth with Carr. It's what he represented as much as it was his talent. Go stalk someone who's going to listen to your idiocy.

Stalk? LMAO, dude you are posting dumb shit making you stick out like a nail waiting to get hammered.

I know Routt is older than Carr by 3 years and I never said I wouldn't want Carr over Routt.

What is ridiculous is how overblown the difference between the 2 players is being touted by uninformed idiots like you.


There are things to be pissed about regarding Pioli, at least plenty I am pissed about and Carr simply isn't one of them. Its an understandable situation to anyone with half a fucking brain and we didn't just let Carr walk without filling the void he left and filling it very well. Hell this could be regarded as a win for Pioli at this point.

Thing is when people bitch about dumb shit that is not worth bitching about it makes it seem like they are bitching just to bitch.

That is something that irritates me.

whoman69
03-24-2012, 05:37 PM
The Chiefs made their decision on CB when they gave Flowers his contract.

That's a load of crap. They still have a ton of cap space, $15 million at last report. That should be enough to sign Carr and rookies. I'm betting even that figure doesn't include the $20 million they rolled over from last year. Let's not kid ourselves that the Chiefs bring in any other FA that will cost a significant amount towards the cap.

milkman
03-24-2012, 05:52 PM
That's a load of crap. They still have a ton of cap space, $15 million at last report. That should be enough to sign Carr and rookies. I'm betting even that figure doesn't include the $20 million they rolled over from last year. Let's not kid ourselves that the Chiefs bring in any other FA that will cost a significant amount towards the cap.

It's s 5 year contract.

You can't just sign a guy because you have money now.

You have to consider future ecomomics.

Tying up a 100 mil on 2 corners over the course of 5 years is not fiscally sound.

Messier
03-24-2012, 05:53 PM
That's a load of crap. They still have a ton of cap space, $15 million at last report. That should be enough to sign Carr and rookies. I'm betting even that figure doesn't include the $20 million they rolled over from last year. Let's not kid ourselves that the Chiefs bring in any other FA that will cost a significant amount towards the cap.

Many others have pointed out that of course they could afford to sign both, but rightly also pointed out the stupidity of having TWO of the highest paid CBs in the league. What I meant was the Chiefs were only going to give one of them a huge contract, I'm sure they offered a nice deal to Carr, but nowhere near what the Cowboys gave him. If the Chiefs gave Carr the same deal, I'd be saying it's a mistake to tie up so much in DB's.

Chief3188
03-24-2012, 07:20 PM
Will Crennel legitimately start the best QB from training camp and preseason if he proves he is better than Cassel?

Probably not.

At Crennel's age and this being his 2nd and most likely last chance to show he has it as a HC I think he will to be honest.

Crennel does not seem to be as attached to Cassel as Pioli or even Haley was for awhile. Unfortunately Pioli did a shitty job getting some real competition at the position. My only hope is that Stanzi shows he is ready to be given a chance or that we draft someone high enough this year that can compete with Stanzi for that job.

I just don't get it. This is the perfect time to insert a young QB and give him a chance. We are pretty close to have a damn good Oline on paper, we have the WR's and TE's and a great running game for a young QB to fall back on. But like the rest of you guys I can see the writing on the wall as well that things seem to be set up for Casshole to have another easy path to showing us Chiefs fans just how bad he can shit the bed again.

whoman69
03-24-2012, 07:27 PM
It's s 5 year contract.

You can't just sign a guy because you have money now.

You have to consider future ecomomics.

Tying up a 100 mil on 2 corners over the course of 5 years is not fiscally sound.

With the amount of cap space they have, they could have frontloaded the contract. Instead they signed a lesser talent who is older.

The Bad Guy
03-24-2012, 07:46 PM
With the amount of cap space they have, they could have frontloaded the contract. Instead they signed a lesser talent who is older.

They signed him for basically one year.

Jesus. if the guy plays well, they pick up the 2nd year option.

If he doesn't, they cut him.

You know how you end up with no cap space? Giving players exactly what they want just because you have the space.

Wallcrawler
03-24-2012, 08:03 PM
Look at the timeframe that was done with Carr. Word has it that the opening bid for Manning was going to be 5 for 90. No way they couldve dropped 50m on Carr and still had a shot at Manning+ improving the o-line.

Besides, Routt should do fine stepping into Carr's role. He excelled when he played opposite of Asomugah, and now he's gonna play opposite of Flowers, with better safety help.


The real issue is at Quarterback. Aside from Matt Cassel being hit by a freakin Greyhound, the Chiefs are stuck with this guy until his contract is up. Im just praying they let him walk when it is.

O.city
03-24-2012, 08:10 PM
The Bad Guy said this the other day, but I've never seen a team try so hard to prop up a guy like this.


I really don't know whats gonna have to happen for Cassel to not be the qb of the Chiefs. They have built in excuses at every turn.

Messier
03-24-2012, 08:22 PM
The Bad Guy said this the other day, but I've never seen a team try so hard to prop up a guy like this.


I really don't know whats gonna have to happen for Cassel to not be the qb of the Chiefs. They have built in excuses at every turn.

Cassel is going to have to really struggle. I know we all say he's struggling already, but his 2010, against bad teams or not, is buying him more time. Also, the best thing that could've happened to Cassel is getting hurt last year. The brunt of the fault doesn't all fall at his feet now. I think if he had stayed healthy, and just continued struggling, we might already have a new QB.

I don't think Cassel is the starter no matter what, but he's got to play poorly, costing the Chiefs games, and or have a poor record to be replaced. If the Chiefs miss the playoffs this year, I think it's Cassel's last.

O.city
03-24-2012, 08:24 PM
I would think the same thing, but we were saying this same thing last year.


We are in a spot where we have to extremely hope that Stanzi or Quinn has something special to give, because our GM has decided to strap us onto Cassel.

Messier
03-24-2012, 08:33 PM
I would think the same thing, but we were saying this same thing last year.


We are in a spot where we have to extremely hope that Stanzi or Quinn has something special to give, because our GM has decided to strap us onto Cassel.

Good point. Just going off what the FO is doing and saying, they seem to be somewhat reluctantly entering the season with Cassel as starter, maybe their faith is shaky enough that Cassel is one bad game away from being benched. I don't know.

dj56dt58
03-24-2012, 11:45 PM
What is the fixation with Carr on CP? Was he a really good player? Yes, is he the backbone of the defense? No.

And despite all the homer ball washing Routt has been rated a better player the last 3 years. You simply can't ignore that unless you just want to bitch just to bitch.

Could the be a drop off this season? Maybe but it will only be slight barring a huge shift in career direction for Routt.

I predict with the return of Berry the defense and secondary will be even better this year and won't be the weak link. Quit your ****ing whining about Carr.

T.H.I.S.

chiefzilla1501
03-25-2012, 12:04 PM
So because they have money, you think spending about 18 million a year in 2 starting corners is a wise move?

That's bullshit logic. Just because you have money to spend, doesn't mean that you should tie up a player at an undesirable number. The Chiefs obviously don't feel that Carr = Flowers so why are they going to give Carr more than Flowers?

This is an irrelevant argument given that the Chiefs had the option of tying a huge chunk of Carr's contract in a first-year roster bonus.

The Chiefs will probably end up $15-20M under the cap by the time the season starts. You know what happens to that $15-20M? *Poof* it disappears.

Bwana
03-25-2012, 12:06 PM
I really don't know whats gonna have to happen for Cassel to not be the qb of the Chiefs. They have built in excuses at every turn.

Unless he gets jacked up by a bus, he's our starter. :shake:

Marcellus
03-25-2012, 12:10 PM
This is an irrelevant argument given that the Chiefs had the option of tying a huge chunk of Carr's contract in a first-year roster bonus.

The Chiefs will probably end up $15-20M under the cap by the time the season starts. You know what happens to that $15-20M? *Poof* it disappears.

Why is everyone so bent on salary cap space rather then actual $ spent?

You guys talk like maxing out the cap is a good idea. The way Pioli has structured contracts they have been top 10 in $ spent without hammering the cap which is WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

Yet continually there are threads with cap room, cap room, cap room, constantly repeated.

That's not the only factor people.

Messier
03-25-2012, 12:11 PM
Unless he gets jacked up by a bus, he's our starter. :shake:

I just have a feeling that last year if Stanzi, or any competent QB, instead of Palko had replaced Cassel and played the rest of the year, Stanzi might be our QB entering this year. Another reason I hate Palko. The fact Cassel was replaced by someone worse made it possible for Cassel to return as the starter.

Marcellus
03-25-2012, 12:12 PM
Unless he gets jacked up by a bus, he's our starter. :shake:

You happen to know his daily routine? Maybe we could get some CP cash together and take of the issue with a little "accident".


He doesn't have to die, just a little Nancy Kerrigan treatment should do.

WhiteWhale
03-25-2012, 12:15 PM
What I garnered from this article is that Gretz is pissed we didn't sign Orton... a guy who could legitimately compete with Cassel.

Because really... we whiffed on Manning and have no chance at RGIII or Luck. He didn't really mention any other possibilities since it was an entirely negative argument.

BossChief
03-25-2012, 12:16 PM
This is an irrelevant argument given that the Chiefs had the option of tying a huge chunk of Carr's contract in a first-year roster bonus.

The Chiefs will probably end up $15-20M under the cap by the time the season starts. You know what happens to that $15-20M? *Poof* it disappears.

JFC you have become a lazy poster.

What gives?

We are only 15 under the cap right now and 5 of that will go to rookies.

Filling out the roster and getting Bowes extension done will eat up the rest.

Marcellus
03-25-2012, 12:16 PM
What I garnered from this article is that Gretz is pissed we didn't sign Orton... a guy who could legitimately compete with Cassel.

Because really... we whiffed on Manning and have no chance at RGIII or Luck. He didn't really mention any other possibilities since it was an entirely negative argument.

Orton and Manning were it for the most part and fact is yes Orton is better but he isn't the answer to the SB any more than Cassel is.

Marcellus
03-25-2012, 12:17 PM
JFC you have become a lazy poster.

What gives?

We are only 15 under the cap right now and 5 of that will go to rookies.

Filling out the roster and getting Bowes extension done will eat up the rest.

I forgot about that, we will be spending some big $ this year even though we are "cheap".

chiefzilla1501
03-25-2012, 12:21 PM
Why is everyone so bent on salary cap space rather then actual $ spent?

You guys talk like maxing out the cap is a good idea. The way Pioli has structured contracts they have been top 10 in $ spent without hammering the cap which is WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

Yet continually there are threads with cap room, cap room, cap room, constantly repeated.

That's not the only factor people.

When the Chiefs don't spend money, that money doesn't roll over. It disappears. The Chiefs were what, $35M under the cap in 2011? The Chiefs had an opportunity to sign Carr in 2011 to a contract where they absorbed $20M of his $60M contract in 2011, and maybe another $15-20M of his contract in 2012 in the form of roster bonuses and base salary. You know what that leaves you with? 3 years, $20-25M in 2013 and beyond. Oh snap, that's the same contract Routt got!

You can't make the argument that we are "managing" the cap when you allow $50M in unused cap space disappear. They aren't trying to manage the cap. In this situation, they are trying to be cheap and pull the wool over your eyes.

BossChief
03-25-2012, 12:22 PM
I just have a feeling that last year if Stanzi, or any competent QB, instead of Palko had replaced Cassel and played the rest of the year, Stanzi might be our QB entering this year. Another reason I hate Palko. The fact Cassel was replaced by someone worse made it possible for Cassel to return as the starter.

This is also why they wouldn't let him play the 4th preseason game.

They heard the crowds ovation for Stanzi in his first action at Arrowhead and knew the chants of WE WANT STANZI...WE WANT STANZI would be impossible to ignore WHEN Cassel started his "tour of suck" again.

My hope is that Ferentz said something like "give him a year or two to learn everything and then give him a shot, he will surprise you"

WhiteWhale
03-25-2012, 12:23 PM
Orton and Manning were it for the most part and fact is yes Orton is better but he isn't the answer to the SB any more than Cassel is.

Yes, I realize that. However that is not the topic.

The topic was QB's who could legitimately beat out Cassel and take the starting job. How many were there on the market?

He doesn't provide any real examples. He says Manning was available and makes no mention of us attempting to pursue him, thus inferring that we made no attempt to do so. That's just dishonest.

We really had 2 options... Orton and Flynn. I'd have used Orton for a bridge season to compete with Cassel because I don't see any of the rookie QB's available at our spot to be ready to start even if we did draft them.

I mean I'm all for outrage and being pissed about the QB situation, but not when the argument is entirely negative without citing alternatives that the team could have pursued.

Don't take this as a defense of Cassel. I threw a tantrum when we traded for him and I hate how we keep nothing but shitty QB's behind him. Our options were limited, and I'm curious what path Gretz would have liked us to follow rather than just bitching about what we did do.

chiefzilla1501
03-25-2012, 12:27 PM
JFC you have become a lazy poster.

What gives?

We are only 15 under the cap right now and 5 of that will go to rookies.

Filling out the roster and getting Bowes extension done will eat up the rest.

Sorry, I was very lazy about one key point.

Brandon Carr's deal of $50M includes the $10M bonus. So essentially, if the Chiefs gave Brandon Carr pretty much the same contract he got as Flowers, the Chiefs would be in essentially the same exact cap situation today as they were when they signed Routt.

Tell me one good reason why the Chiefs didn't sign either Bowe or Carr in 2011 when they had a lot of cap space to absorb? Other than being cheap.

BossChief
03-25-2012, 12:28 PM
When the Chiefs don't spend money, that money doesn't roll over. It disappears. The Chiefs were what, $35M under the cap in 2011? The Chiefs had an opportunity to sign Carr in 2011 to a contract where they absorbed $20M of his $60M contract in 2011, and maybe another $15-20M of his contract in 2012 in the form of roster bonuses and base salary. You know what that leaves you with? 3 years, $20-25M in 2013 and beyond. Oh snap, that's the same contract Routt got!

You can't make the argument that we are "managing" the cap when you allow $50M in unused cap space disappear. They aren't trying to manage the cap. In this situation, they are trying to be cheap and pull the wool over your eyes.

Anybody with NFL common sense only had the read the first sentence to see how wrong you are.

We "rolled over" 20+ million from last years cap, to this years.

I didn't waste my time reading the rest.

Get off the drugs...if you aren't on any, start taking drugs.

chiefzilla1501
03-25-2012, 12:31 PM
Yes, I realize that. However that is not the topic.

The topic was QB's who could legitimately beat out Cassel and take the starting job. How many were there on the market?

He doesn't provide any real examples. He says Manning was available and makes no mention of us attempting to pursue him, thus inferring that we made no attempt to do so. That's just dishonest.

We really had 2 options... Orton and Flynn. I'd have used Orton for a bridge season to compete with Cassel because I don't see any of the rookie QB's available at our spot to be ready to start even if we did draft them.

I mean I'm all for outrage and being pissed about the QB situation, but not when the argument is entirely negative without citing alternatives that the team could have pursued.

Don't take this as a defense of Cassel. I threw a tantrum when we traded for him and I hate how we keep nothing but shitty QB's behind him. Our options were limited, and I'm curious what path Gretz would have liked us to follow rather than just bitching about what we did do.

I hate people's argument that because Orton isn't significantly better than Cassel, that means the Chiefs are fine for not having signed him.

I'm outraged moreso that Pioli believed that $5.9M in 2012 was WAY too much to spend for Orton, yet he's more than happy to pay Cassel $5.3M to play for him at a much worse level. That's the issue at hand here. The Chiefs' lazy courting of Orton shows that the Chiefs, for whatever dumb reason, truly believe that Matt Cassel is better than Orton.

WhiteWhale
03-25-2012, 12:32 PM
Sorry, I was very lazy about one key point.

Brandon Carr's deal of $50M includes the $10M bonus. So essentially, if the Chiefs gave Brandon Carr pretty much the same contract he got as Flowers, the Chiefs would be in essentially the same exact cap situation today as they were when they signed Routt.

Tell me one good reason why the Chiefs didn't sign either Bowe or Carr in 2011 when they had a lot of cap space to absorb? Other than being cheap.

Because GM's don't make unilateral decisions on who signs and when.

WhiteWhale
03-25-2012, 12:33 PM
I hate people's argument that because Orton isn't significantly better than Cassel, that means the Chiefs are fine for not having signed him.

I'm outraged moreso that Pioli believed that $5.9M in 2012 was WAY too much to spend for Orton, yet he's more than happy to pay Cassel $5.3M to play for him at a much worse level. That's the issue at hand here. The Chiefs' lazy courting of Orton shows that the Chiefs, for whatever dumb reason, truly believe that Matt Cassel is better than Orton.

That's essentially what I think Gretz is bitching about, but he never really says. He complains about the current situation only. Maybe I missed it but he didn't even mention Orton did he? Pointing to that as a possible option to actually compete with Cassel would have made his blog more viable.

chiefzilla1501
03-25-2012, 12:34 PM
Anybody with NFL common sense only had the read the first sentence to see how wrong you are.

We "rolled over" 20+ million from last years cap, to this years.

I didn't waste my time reading the rest.

Get off the drugs...if you aren't on any, start taking drugs.

I stand corrected. I wasn't aware that the new CBA had a rollover system. Sorry.

WhiteWhale
03-25-2012, 12:37 PM
FWIW I think the KC cheaps stuff is nonsense if you really evaluate things. I don't feel like writing about that again.

I think our problem is not being cheap, but clinging to a shitty QB and refusing to accept that he's never going to develop into the player our GM thinks he will. Our owner had no problem paying him way too much money at the word of our GM.

BossChief
03-25-2012, 12:37 PM
Sorry, I was very lazy about one key point.

Brandon Carr's deal of $50M includes the $10M bonus. So essentially, if the Chiefs gave Brandon Carr pretty much the same contract he got as Flowers, the Chiefs would be in essentially the same exact cap situation today as they were when they signed Routt.

Tell me one good reason why the Chiefs didn't sign either Bowe or Carr in 2011 when they had a lot of cap space to absorb? Other than being cheap.

Neither player was gonna sign. Both had offers on the table.

Carr did a phone interview on NFLN right after he signed with Dallas and said he had wanted to be a Cowboy since he was a kid...he turned down offers to visit from the Jets and a few other teams to sign with Dallas.

Bowes agent has been playing hardball for over a full year now. Pioli was in contract extension talks with Bowe all year.

whoman69
03-25-2012, 12:37 PM
I stand corrected. I wasn't aware that the new CBA had a rollover system. Sorry.

I don't think that the person who put out the $15 million cap room figure in the media did either.

BossChief
03-25-2012, 12:41 PM
I don't think that the person who put out the $15 million cap room figure in the media did either.

What are you talking about?

chiefzilla1501
03-25-2012, 12:42 PM
That's essentially what I think Gretz is bitching about, but he never really says. He complains about the current situation only. Maybe I missed it but he didn't even mention Orton did he? Pointing to that as a possible option to actually compete with Cassel would have made his blog more viable.

I think the issue is that Pioli is talking out of both sides of his mouth. He said he wanted a QB competition. That means paying $10-12M to have Cassel and Orton, or $9-10M to have Cassel and Henne. It's not the move I'd make, but if Pioli was being genuine, he wouldn't have found either of those contracts expensive. Instead, it's clear Pioli never had a genuine interest in bringing either of those guys in to start.

So he brings in Brady Quinn. Oh, okay. Maybe he's bringing Quinn in to compete for Cassel's job, which is consistent with what Pioli said he'd do in the offseason. Nope. He made it perfectly clear that Matt Cassel is the starter and that means that Romeo should expect to give Cassel starter reps pretty much the entire preseason.

I would have cut Cassel and kept Orton. That's my alternative. Gretz's alternative is that if you sign Brady Quinn, cut the bullshit that there is a guaranteed starter. Make Cassel at least fight for a position he doesn't really deserve in the first place.

chiefzilla1501
03-25-2012, 12:44 PM
I don't think that the person who put out the $15 million cap room figure in the media did either.

I didn't think that sounded right either. Can anyone confirm what our actual cap figure is? Does that $15M include the rollover dollars?

BossChief
03-25-2012, 12:52 PM
That 15 counts everything.

We ended last year with 22 million (iirc) in cap space and rolled it over.

All of our playing time/performance escalators ate up almost all of that amount.

That left us around 34 million under (again, iirc) the cap this year going into free agency.

Bowes franchise tag ate up 9.5 and that brought the figure down to 25 million.

Winston got about 5
Boss and Hillis got 3 each
Quinn got around 2

I'm not gonna go look up individual details on all of these to add up the pennies, but after everything we are at 15 under right now and that number has been confirmed.

FringeNC
03-25-2012, 01:24 PM
We could have signed Orton and cut Cassel, and saved a ton of money. Orton is due to make far less than Cassel. Even if Pioli decided that Cassel was better than Orton (probably only guy in the league who thinks so), he could have threatened to cut Cassel, and got his numbers way down.

With Orton available on the cheap, there is simply no reason Cassel should have been kept on the roster. Cut his ass, use Orton as a stopgap, and draft a QBOTF.

Thaddeus_Eugenia
03-25-2012, 01:38 PM
I have a heavy confidence that Matt Cassel will win this competition.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-25-2012, 02:03 PM
Sorry, I was very lazy about one key point.

Brandon Carr's deal of $50M includes the $10M bonus. So essentially, if the Chiefs gave Brandon Carr pretty much the same contract he got as Flowers, the Chiefs would be in essentially the same exact cap situation today as they were when they signed Routt.

Tell me one good reason why the Chiefs didn't sign either Bowe or Carr in 2011 when they had a lot of cap space to absorb? Other than being cheap.

This isn't Madden. You can't make a guy sign if he wants to test the market. What is so hard to understand?

Coogs
03-25-2012, 02:36 PM
I have a heavy confidence that Matt Cassel will win this competition.

If it is a fair competition, he could get 3rd.

Thaddeus_Eugenia
03-25-2012, 02:40 PM
If it is a fair competition, he could get 3rd.

I do not know how you mean, Matt has the most talent in his arm out of the quarterbacks that the Chiefs have.

whoman69
03-25-2012, 02:51 PM
I do not know how you mean, Matt has the most talent in his arm out of the quarterbacks that the Chiefs have.

:rolleyes:

Okie_Apparition
03-25-2012, 03:06 PM
Pioli's QB signings:
Cassel (2009)
Gutierrez (2009)
Croyle (2010 re-sign)
Palko (2010)
Stanzi (2011)
Orton (2011 waiver)
Quinn (2012)

Stanzi may have started a trend up, however slight
~hoping Palko was rock bottom

Marcellus
03-25-2012, 03:37 PM
When the Chiefs don't spend money, that money doesn't roll over. It disappears. The Chiefs were what, $35M under the cap in 2011? The Chiefs had an opportunity to sign Carr in 2011 to a contract where they absorbed $20M of his $60M contract in 2011, and maybe another $15-20M of his contract in 2012 in the form of roster bonuses and base salary. You know what that leaves you with? 3 years, $20-25M in 2013 and beyond. Oh snap, that's the same contract Routt got!

You can't make the argument that we are "managing" the cap when you allow $50M in unused cap space disappear. They aren't trying to manage the cap. In this situation, they are trying to be cheap and pull the wool over your eyes.

As I have stated numerous times, you can't be top 10 in cash spent and be "cheap" so that argument is for the weak minded.


Lets see if I am following you correctly.

If you can't roll cap space in 2013 then you could can really screw yourself by seeing a large drop in cap space from the previous year totally hosing you in 2013 right? In other words your salary cap will drop which I think is what you are bitching about losing that room in 2013.

The only way to avoid that would be to sign hugely front loaded contracts with huge payouts in 2012 which seems to be what you are advocating.

That is not a bit smart, you don't give football players huge $ up front unless you have to because their career could end game 1. Hell even if they miss just 1 entire season like Moeaki, JC, and Berry, you just made a 5 year contract 20% more expensive. (You get nothing in 1 year of a 5 year deal).

Not a good idea.

BossChief
03-25-2012, 03:59 PM
I do not know how you mean, Matt has the most talent in his arm out of the quarterbacks that the Chiefs have.

The phone from the Coalition is ringing.

They say one of their "special needs" kids went on a walk by himself and that if we see him we are supposed to help him get home.

www.chiefscoalition.com

There ya go, big guy!!!

BossChief
03-25-2012, 04:04 PM
As I have stated numerous times, you can't be top 10 in cash spent and be "cheap" so that argument is for the weak minded.


Lets see if I am following you correctly.

If you can't roll cap space in 2013 then you could can really screw yourself by seeing a large drop in cap space from the previous year totally hosing you in 2013 right? In other words your salary cap will drop which I think is what you are bitching about losing that room in 2013.

The only way to avoid that would be to sign hugely front loaded contracts with huge payouts in 2012 which seems to be what you are advocating.
That is not a bit smart, you don't give football players huge $ up front unless you have to because their career could end game 1. Hell even if they miss just 1 entire season like Moeaki, JC, and Berry, you just made a 5 year contract 20% more expensive. (You get nothing in 1 year of a 5 year deal).

Not a good idea.

Not just that, you give some guys a fat check and they forget that they have to actually earn it.

That's worse than an injury.

chiefzilla1501
03-25-2012, 05:22 PM
As I have stated numerous times, you can't be top 10 in cash spent and be "cheap" so that argument is for the weak minded.


Lets see if I am following you correctly.

If you can't roll cap space in 2013 then you could can really screw yourself by seeing a large drop in cap space from the previous year totally hosing you in 2013 right? In other words your salary cap will drop which I think is what you are bitching about losing that room in 2013.

The only way to avoid that would be to sign hugely front loaded contracts with huge payouts in 2012 which seems to be what you are advocating.

That is not a bit smart, you don't give football players huge $ up front unless you have to because their career could end game 1. Hell even if they miss just 1 entire season like Moeaki, JC, and Berry, you just made a 5 year contract 20% more expensive. (You get nothing in 1 year of a 5 year deal).

Not a good idea.

No, this makes sense. I still am not a big fan of choosing Routt over Carr, but the rollover cap argument makes sense to me.

Chief3188
03-25-2012, 06:45 PM
I do not know how you mean, Matt has the most talent in his arm out of the quarterbacks that the Chiefs have.

Now I am not a cryptozoologist or anything but if I had to venture a guess I would have to say for the record that this statement was most likely made by an autistic monkey with down syndrome. Long rumored to have traveled the jungles over five thousand years ago in the land known as retardia. I didn't know they still existed.

BossChief
03-25-2012, 06:53 PM
For The price of Carr, we are basically getting Routt and Kevin Boss as well as a third round comp pick.

Chief3188
03-25-2012, 07:43 PM
For The price of Carr, we are basically getting Routt and Kevin Boss as well as a third round comp pick.

You think we will get a 3rd round comp pick even though we signed Routt?

Nightfyre
03-25-2012, 07:45 PM
You think we will get a 3rd round comp pick even though we signed Routt?

Routt was a cut, not a free agent, and therefore does not count against us for the purposes of determining comp. picks.

BossChief
03-25-2012, 09:05 PM
Routt was a cut, not a free agent, and therefore does not count against us for the purposes of determining comp. picks.yup

The comp pick is why we haven't made moves to re-sign more of our own guys and targeted free agents that were cut as well.

Winston, Routt and Boss were all cut. The only signing that works against us looks to be Hillis.

We have "lost" Carr and Orton and Carr signed for big bucks.

If Carr plays the whole year for Dallas, we will get a third rounder next year in compensation.

If other players that contracts with us ran out, also sign elsewhere...we might get more than just one comp pick.