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View Full Version : Chiefs Shrewd move by Pioli


donkhater
03-28-2012, 03:08 PM
I didn't see a thread dedicated to this, but I saw this posted at Arrowhead Pride.

None of three players KC signed (Hillis, Winston or Routt) count against the equation to figure out compensatory pick in 2013 since they were released from their teams.

Carr's contract, on the other hand, expired making him an unrestricted free agent. Should he play to a high level next year, he will factor very heavily into the compensatory pick awarded to KC.

Essentially it looks as though Pioli signed Routt for less money AND may have got a 3rd or 4th round pick Carr. Again, pretty shrewd move.

ChiefsandO'sfan
03-28-2012, 03:09 PM
Q

HemiEd
03-28-2012, 03:10 PM
It has been mentioned.

Micjones
03-28-2012, 03:10 PM
Obligatory: "Fuck you, Pioli!"

Buehler445
03-28-2012, 03:12 PM
Routt isn't as good as Carr. Fail.

Mr. Laz
03-28-2012, 03:15 PM
Yes, it's a smart move but i'd rather not have personnel decision made based on whether we can squeeze a mid round comp pick out of the decision.

The difference in the level of the players would have to be infinitesimal to make it worth gaining even a 3rd pick.

DTLB58
03-28-2012, 03:19 PM
One never knows how one will play once said FA gets paid.
See half or more of the FA in the NFL.

Secondly, what is the criteria for "at a high level"
I sure hope it's not that popularity contest they call the Pro Bowl?

Extra Point
03-28-2012, 03:22 PM
Shrewed thread q'ed, dude!

DaKCMan AP
03-28-2012, 03:25 PM
http://glennsimmons.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/thought1.jpg

bigbucks24
03-28-2012, 03:29 PM
I didn't see a thread dedicated to this, but I saw this posted at Arrowhead Pride.

None of three players KC signed (Hillis, Winston or Routt) count against the equation to figure out compensatory pick in 2013 since they were released from their teams.

Carr's contract, on the other hand, expired making him an unrestricted free agent. Should he play to a high level next year, he will factor very heavily into the compensatory pick awarded to KC.

Essentially it looks as though Pioli signed Routt for less money AND may have got a 3rd or 4th round pick Carr. Again, pretty shrewd move.

I believe the comp picks will be decided on the value of the contract. It has nothing to do with the quality of play.

-King-
03-28-2012, 03:34 PM
Routt isn't as good as Carr. Fail.

He's close enough to where letting Carr go was worth it.

Hoover
03-28-2012, 03:36 PM
Yeah, but Boss is going to be a stud and fu@k this all up!

-King-
03-28-2012, 03:37 PM
Yeah, but Boss is going to be a stud and fu@k this all up!

He was cut also.

KCrockaholic
03-28-2012, 03:39 PM
I believe the comp picks will be decided on the value of the contract. It has nothing to do with the quality of play.

Actually it's a formula that includes the players salary with his new team, his playing time, and post season honors all play a factor into determining the comp pick for his previous team.

Micjones
03-28-2012, 03:39 PM
Yes, it's a smart but i'd rather not have personnel decision made based on whether we can squeeze a mid round comp pick out of the decision.

The difference in the level of the players would have to be infinitesimal to make it worth gaining even a 3rd pick.

How much worse than Carr do you suppose Routt is?

Mr. Laz
03-28-2012, 03:55 PM
How much worse than Carr do you suppose Routt is?
Have no idea if he will be any worse.

Maybe Crennel thinks Routt is more of a man-to-man match so he can do different scheme stuff. :shrug:

just saying if he made all these switches just to get a comp pick, then he better be right about them all. Just one screw up and that 3rd rd comp pick isn't going to mean shit if a player doesn't work out.

htismaqe
03-28-2012, 04:09 PM
How much worse than Carr do you suppose Routt is?

If his penalties continue, A LOT worse...

Micjones
03-28-2012, 05:47 PM
Considering everything else that played out...
I've all but forgotten that Carr's gone.
In fact, I was never all that broken up about it anyway.

It says something very positive about where this team is (as strange as that may sound).

BossChief
03-28-2012, 06:13 PM
I should have just started a thread about this when I first mentioned it before free agency even started.

It keeps popping up over and over here and people think its brand new info every time.

Kinda funny, actually.

The only players who figure into comp picks right now are

"Against" us:
Brady Quinn
Peyton Hillis

"For" us:
Kyle Orton
Brandon Carr
Leron McClain

that means we are "up" one on the count and should receive one comp pick.

the value of the comp pick is determined by two factors

1) cost of the contract
2) playing time

That means we are up the loss of Carr and being he signed a 50 million dollar contract and should play nearly every defensive snap, it will more than likely yield us a 3rd round pick (the highest pick given)

That all changes if we re-sign guys like Jon McGraw, Wallace Gilberry, etc because the count would go to even...but if some of our own free agents sign elsewhere, we would receive a comp pick for each one of them IF WE STAY POSITIVE IN THAT COUNT.

The way I understand it is the number of free agents lost in this equation over the amount of gained players is how many picks we receive...so if Jon McGraw and Wallace Gilberry sign elsewhere and we dont sign any more qualifying free agents, we would get a few extra picks next year.

Mr. Laz
03-28-2012, 06:36 PM
Hillis should play a lot

gotta figure we sign a FA safety somewhere unless we draft one high

arrwheader
03-28-2012, 06:36 PM
Carr wasnt worth 50 plus mil of cap space for dropping interceptions, he didnt want to stay with us, he wanted to get paid in a great market for CB good for him even better for us if we get a good comp pick for him next year

Mr. Laz
03-28-2012, 06:42 PM
Carr wasnt worth 50 plus mil of cap space for dropping interceptions, he didnt want to stay with us, he wanted to get paid in a great market for CB good for him even better for us if we get a good comp pick for him next year

it would be interesting to know whether it was about money or about Carr wanting to move.

whoman69
03-28-2012, 06:44 PM
How much worse than Carr do you suppose Routt is?

3 years and tons of penalties difference.

Micjones
03-28-2012, 06:53 PM
3 years and tons of penalties difference.

There won't be much of a dropoff.
Routt's a good Corner.

I'll take Routt + Winston over Carr by himself.

BossChief
03-28-2012, 06:55 PM
it would be interesting to know whether it was about money or about Carr wanting to move.

He did a phone interview with NFLN right after he signed and said he wanted to be a Cowboy since he was a kid.

I'm sure it had a lot to do with it.

Mr. Laz
03-28-2012, 06:58 PM
He did a phone interview with NFLN right after he signed and said he wanted to be a Cowboy since he was a kid.

I'm sure it had a lot to do with it.
not surprised

i'm imagine he told the Chiefs that he didn't want to sign a contract extension and wanted to explore free agency. Basically code for 'I'm gone'.

Bewbies
03-28-2012, 07:04 PM
Getting a 3rd round pick for Carr lessens the blow quite a bit. I'd rather have Carr, but $50M is a lot of money for CB2.

BossChief
03-28-2012, 07:11 PM
If I could chose between

Carr at 10 million per year

or

Routt for 6.5
Boss for 3
3rd round pick

I'm taking option 2, without question.

the only people that would take Carr in that scenario are guys that are too emotionally attached to the player.

BossChief
03-28-2012, 07:14 PM
not surprised

i'm imagine he told the Chiefs that he didn't want to sign a contract extension and wanted to explore free agency. Basically code for 'I'm gone'.

In that same interview, he said that he turned down the Jets and a couple other teams to sign with Dallas.

The Jets wanted to pair him with Revis and surely would have given him the same money he got in Dallas and Carr would have been the #2 guy there and had many more opportunities for big stats....but he evidently wanted to be a Cowboy.

Fritz88
03-28-2012, 07:16 PM
Polio is the fucking best.

BossChief
03-28-2012, 07:20 PM
Polio is the fucking best.

At everything except quarterback, I think this comment is close to accurate...even though I know it was said in jest.

htismaqe
03-28-2012, 07:38 PM
There won't be much of a dropoff.
Routt's a good Corner.

I'll take Routt + Winston over Carr by himself.

The way Routt racks up penalties, he could literally cost us a game or 2 in the standings.

He's a physically talented corner but his instincts are absolute SHIT.

Hopefully in our backfield he won't feel NEAR the pressure he did when they made him the #1 guy in Oakland because I think that was a big part of it...

htismaqe
03-28-2012, 07:38 PM
it would be interesting to know whether it was about money or about Carr wanting to move.

It was 100% about him wanting to be a Dallas Cowboy...since he was a little boy I believe he said...

Nightfyre
03-28-2012, 07:46 PM
The way Routt racks up penalties, he could literally cost us a game or 2 in the standings.

He's a physically talented corner but his instincts are absolute SHIT.

Hopefully in our backfield he won't feel NEAR the pressure he did when they made him the #1 guy in Oakland because I think that was a big part of it...

I think our scheme will be a better fit for Routt and there are a few factors that will mitigate penalties:

1) Emmitt Thomas is our DB coach and is godly in his work.
2) We have better safety support over the top than the Raiders did.
3) He won't be wearing silver and black.

Fritz88
03-28-2012, 07:58 PM
I think our scheme will be a better fit for Routt and there are a few factors that will mitigate penalties:

1) Emmitt Thomas is our DB coach and is godly in his work.
2) We have better safety support over the top than the Raiders did.
3) He won't be wearing silver and black.

Yes and yes and yes. Even though some here indicated that Berry's return wont
be a factor in the play of a CB.

BossChief
03-28-2012, 08:00 PM
I have a friend that is a big Raider fan and he says we are gonna love Routt...and he is about the farthest thing from a homer out there.

Says the guy got more phantom penalties than anyone he had ever seen and that he can run with any receiver and that if he has a true fault, its that he may be a little too aggressive with the ball in the air.

He swears up and down that Routt is gonna thrive in our defense.

take it for what its worth.

Also, I think the perfect move for our first rounder (if we are unable to trade down and nobody elite drops to us) is to take Mark Barron and to move Berry to FS to play over the top of Routt and start Barron at SS.

We do that and spend a mid rounder on a guy like Ta'amu or Chapman...this defense has a chance to be the best in the NFL.

Yeah, I said it.

KCwolf
03-28-2012, 08:23 PM
I have a friend that is a big Raider fan and he says we are gonna love Routt...and he is about the farthest thing from a homer out there.

Says the guy got more phantom penalties than anyone he had ever seen and that he can run with any receiver and that if he has a true fault, its that he may be a little too aggressive with the ball in the air.

He swears up and down that Routt is gonna thrive in our defense.

take it for what its worth.

Also, I think the perfect move for our first rounder (if we are unable to trade down and nobody elite drops to us) is to take Mark Barron and to move Berry to FS to play over the top of Routt and start Barron at SS.

We do that and spend a mid rounder on a guy like Ta'amu or Chapman...this defense has a chance to be the best in the NFL.

Yeah, I said it.


Couldn't agree more. We hit a home run here IMO. And Winston ..... REALLY ...... Outta the Park

jspchief
03-28-2012, 08:54 PM
I don't see how you can claim this is some master plan by Pioli to get compensatory picks.

Boss wasn't his first choice at TE.
Winston entered FA late in the game.

It all worked out favorably filling spots that needed filled, but I don't attribute it to Piolis genius.

Willie Lanier
03-28-2012, 09:17 PM
I have a friend that is a big Raider fan and he says we are gonna love Routt...and he is about the farthest thing from a homer out there.

Says the guy got more phantom penalties than anyone he had ever seen and that he can run with any receiver and that if he has a true fault, its that he may be a little too aggressive with the ball in the air.

He swears up and down that Routt is gonna thrive in our defense.

take it for what its worth.

Also, I think the perfect move for our first rounder (if we are unable to trade down and nobody elite drops to us) is to take Mark Barron and to move Berry to FS to play over the top of Routt and start Barron at SS.

We do that and spend a mid rounder on a guy like Ta'amu or Chapman...this defense has a chance to be the best in the NFL.

Yeah, I said it.

:clap:

BossChief
03-28-2012, 09:18 PM
I don't see how you can claim this is some master plan by Pioli to get compensatory picks.

Boss wasn't his first choice at TE.
Winston entered FA late in the game.

It all worked out favorably filling spots that needed filled, but I don't attribute it to Piolis genius.

Who said it was all some master plan?

Just sound moves with more than just one benefit to their signing.

Contrary to popular belief, Pioli has made some damn good moves for this team...its just that keeping Matt Cassel around as a starter makes us all overlook all those good moves.

Willie Lanier
03-28-2012, 09:19 PM
We are one more difference maker at a skill position, and one more serviceable D lineman away from being a really scary defense

kysirsoze
03-28-2012, 09:21 PM
Also, I think the perfect move for our first rounder (if we are unable to trade down and nobody elite drops to us) is to take Mark Barron and to move Berry to FS to play over the top of Routt and start Barron at SS.

We do that and spend a mid rounder on a guy like Ta'amu or Chapman...this defense has a chance to be the best in the NFL.

Yeah, I said it.

I've always thought one of Berry's best qualities is his impact in run support. Wouldn't moving him to FS make him less of a factor in run defense? I admittedly don't have a full understanding of the saftey roles in a Crennel defense.

Willie Lanier
03-28-2012, 09:27 PM
I've always thought one of Berry's best qualities is his impact in run support. Wouldn't moving him to FS make him less of a factor in run defense? I admittedly don't have a full understanding of the saftey roles in a Crennel defense.

It seems like if we were able to trade down and acquire Barron, he and Berry would be interchangeable at either spot depending on the situation...

Berry would play a lot of coverage safety (which he excelled at when given the opportunity in college) and Barron would be the thumper, but the fact that both can play both safety roles opens up the defensive playbook A LOT

Willie Lanier
03-28-2012, 09:34 PM
And in my opinion, both Keuchly and Barron would be big upgrades...

Chiefs fans over-value both Lewis and Belcher, both are serviceable, but both could be quickly upgraded...

J Diddy
03-28-2012, 09:36 PM
I have a friend that is a big Raider fan and he says we are gonna love Routt...and he is about the farthest thing from a homer out there.

Says the guy got more phantom penalties than anyone he had ever seen and that he can run with any receiver and that if he has a true fault, its that he may be a little too aggressive with the ball in the air.

He swears up and down that Routt is gonna thrive in our defense.

take it for what its worth.

Also, I think the perfect move for our first rounder (if we are unable to trade down and nobody elite drops to us) is to take Mark Barron and to move Berry to FS to play over the top of Routt and start Barron at SS.

We do that and spend a mid rounder on a guy like Ta'amu or Chapman...this defense has a chance to be the best in the NFL.

Yeah, I said it.

We don't need a starting safety.

BossChief
03-28-2012, 09:58 PM
The Chiefs defense was in sub packages more than half the time.

Its not just upgrading a "starting safety" spot.

This is 2012, not 1996...lots of spread offenses and passing games that throw it more than 60% of the time.

With the current rule book, that's not gonna change.

Lewis is a guy that runs a 4.7 and is also coming off shoulder surgery from his injury in the finale.