PDA

View Full Version : It won't be DeCastro. I'm still betting Kuechly. But here's a dark horse...


Direckshun
04-16-2012, 08:48 AM
I am willing to bet something severe on my signature, like a one-year ownership of it, that this team will not take David DeCastro at any point in the 2012 NFL Draft.

Several reasons, which we've all visited:

The run game is mostly fine. We led the league in rushing two years ago with Thomas fucking Jones taking half the carries, behind Ryan Lilja. Scott Pioli does not view Lilja as a weak spot, nor really should he for another year or two. DeCastro would offer an upgrade, but it would almost certainly involve cutting Lilja, which Pioli is not going to do. At the same time, DeCastro would offer an upgrade over Lilja in pass protection, but only a marginal one. Lilja is a technician in pass protection, and you're only going to see the upgrade against the bigger nose tackles when they're lined up over Lilja. Even then, as milkman said in another thread, Cassel still took over 40 sacks in New England behind their stud, first round guard. The Chiefs do have three good value guards under contract, and by good value I mean we have two solid starters and solid depth with Darryl Harris, which is what most teams strive for. All three first-rounders during the Pioli era have been selections at a position the team is perilously thin at (2009, DE; 2010, S; 2011, WR). Kind of a lesser argument here, but DeCastro was not a captain at Stanford, and has a reputation for being quiet as a Will Sheilds mouse. If Pioli's going to take a guard, he's going to want it to be a dynamic-changing personality -- not somebody who will just upgrade one spot, but somebody who will elevate several spots through force of will. Even more than picking an elite talent at guard, Pioli wants to stockpile 2012 and 2013 draft picks. It's infinitely more likely we'll trade out of the #11 to somebody who really wants DeCastro than it is we'll pick DeCastro ourselves.
It is still my opinion that this team wants Luke Kuechly. The Chiefs in 2013 will only have one ILB under contract in DJ. Siler and Belcher will be free agents, though I believe Pioli would love to keep Belcher, and I bet we can.

Although I really believe, following this front office as closely as I've tried to, that Mark Barron and Michael Brockers are both everything this front office loves in a prospect. The safety position is very thin now, and the DE position will be thin next year, assuming Brandon Bair doesn't blow up.

It doesn't take a lot to see that they are really intrigued by Tannehill.

And they no doubt love Riley Reiff, but of course we have no need for him.

Another dark horse, considering these factors: the Chiefs still lack a deep threat to stretch defenses, and Baldwin's shown flashes, but only flashes, at this point is still a bit unreliable.

Kendall Wright played for four years at Baylor, and was an emotional team captain for that offense (whereas RG3 is more of a cool-as-a-cucumber, poker face leader). Wright's timed speed means precisely jack and shit to Pioli, who's spoken at length about Kendrick Lewis playing faster than he timed -- and Wright plays like a 4.4 speed demon.

The Chiefs have Breaston and Baldwin another four years, and I don't think they'll get Bowe signed in July. They may hold off longer to see if Baldwin can take off, and if he does (and he's shown that he can...), they could always let Bowe walk or trade him off, and a WR corps of Baldwin, Breaston, and Wright would provide a perfect balance of weapons.

Of course, I hope we never do let Bowe go. In a passing league, there is plenty of room for four WR's to get lots of catches, and it would make life very easy for the QBotF after Cassel.

No point to this thread, other than some random thoughts. I think Wright is a sleeper if the Chiefs trade down.

Direckshun
04-16-2012, 08:56 AM
FTR

Charles
Hillis
Bowe
Baldwin
Wright
Breaston
McCluster
Moeaki
Boss

Just saying.

O.city
04-16-2012, 08:58 AM
I do like Wright, but again, I think there are guys later that can do the same thing he does.


One of the two slot guys from Arkansas come to mind. Ty Hilton, etc.


This is the craziest spot I remember the Chiefs being in, with regards to a first round pick.

Direckshun
04-16-2012, 09:00 AM
I do like Wright, but again, I think there are guys later that can do the same thing he does.

One of the two slot guys from Arkansas come to mind. Ty Hilton, etc.

This is the craziest spot I remember the Chiefs being in, with regards to a first round pick.

Both the Arkansas guys, to my mind, are slot guys.

Hilton is more akin to what Wright does, an outside deep threat. And he offers a similar skill set.

He doesn't offer four years in a BCS conference and Wright's leadership abilities, however.

O.city
04-16-2012, 09:05 AM
Both the Arkansas guys, to my mind, are slot guys.

Hilton is more akin to what Wright does, an outside deep threat. And he offers a similar skill set.

He doesn't offer four years in a BCS conference and Wright's leadership abilities, however.

All true.



I just don't think they will be looking for much more than a pure speed deep threat, if they look at all.

I really like Hilton in the 3 or 4. He brings alot of talent.

Pestilence
04-16-2012, 09:25 AM
Who's going to throw him the ball? Cassel can't throw a deep ball for shit.

O.city
04-16-2012, 09:27 AM
Stanzi can!!!

Urc Burry
04-16-2012, 09:40 AM
Two playmakers I'm really high on are Doug Martin and Ryan Broyles. Doug Martin is almost like Ray Rice 2.0 and Ryan Broyles is perfect for a slot receiver.

I think we might have some nice leverage at our spot for a trade down. Mevlin Ingram and Luke Kuechly are both getting slotted to the Seahawks a lot.

But if not I would love a
1. Kuechly
2. Martin
3. Chapman
4. Broyles

the Talking Can
04-16-2012, 09:45 AM
the old tried and true Matt Millen approach to building a team...no thanks

Cassel can't hit the broad side of an ocean if it ran 4.4....it's like buying erkel an EXTRA hooker...he's still explaining WOW to the first one

agree about DeCastro, obviously, and have said so for awhile...

Frosty
04-16-2012, 09:46 AM
I think the Chiefs will draft a WR but I seriously doubt it will be in the first two rounds.

Direckshun
04-16-2012, 09:48 AM
the old tried and true Matt Millen approach to building a team...no thanks

Saints drafted Robert Meachum in the first when they didn't need a WR.

Packers drafted Randall Cobb last year in the 2nd when they didn't need a WR.

Is there any chance you'd argue either of those were poor selections?

Direckshun
04-16-2012, 09:49 AM
Who's going to throw him the ball? Cassel can't throw a deep ball for shit.

Cassel can't hit the broad side of an ocean if it ran 4.4....

Build the offense you need to win a championship. Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, and Wright is a championship caliber WR corps.

If the QB can't play in that offense, get a new QB.

Like Brandon Weeden in the second.

Couldn't resist.

Mr. Laz
04-16-2012, 09:52 AM
[list] The run game is mostly fine.
the outside running game is mostly fine


the inside running game has sucked ass and costs us in short yardage all the time. It didn't matter who ran the ball up the middle Jones,McClain,Battle,DMC ... it sucked.

which is what Decastro would be drafted to fix.

O.city
04-16-2012, 09:53 AM
I think T.Y is this years Cobb.


Wouldn't be upset if he came in the 3 or even 2.

the Talking Can
04-16-2012, 09:53 AM
Saints drafted Robert Meachum in the first when they didn't need a WR.

Packers drafted Randall Cobb last year in the 2nd when they didn't need a WR.

Is there any chance you'd argue either of those were poor selections?

I'm talking about 1 round picks, obviously

second, is there any chance you're seriously comparing their QB situations to ours?...which again, is obviously the point

Direckshun
04-16-2012, 09:54 AM
the outside running game is mostly fine

the inside running game as sucked ass and costs us in short yardage all the time. It didn't matter who ran the ball up the middle Jones,McClain,Battle,DMC ... it sucked.

which is what Decastro would be drafted to fix.

The inside running game sucked with Jackie Battle and Thomas Jones, running behind Casey Wiegmann and Ryan Lilja.

Peyton Hillis and somebody like Robert Turbin in the 4th round? Running behind Rodney Hudson and Jon Asamoah?

Should not be an issue worth spending a 1st to repair.

the Talking Can
04-16-2012, 09:54 AM
Build the offense you need to win a championship. Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, and Wright is a championship caliber WR corps.

If the QB can't play in that offense, get a new QB.

Like Brandon Weeden in the second.

Couldn't resist.

we can pick up a WR any year, we already have 2 first round picks at the position...and Weeden is a 40 year old dweeb

O.city
04-16-2012, 09:55 AM
We do have a shitty situation at qb, but you can't or well shouldn't draft because of that. Build the team so someone can hopefully fall into the qb spot and be surrounded with elite talent.


ALA Stanzi.

the Talking Can
04-16-2012, 09:57 AM
We do have a shitty situation at qb, but you can't or well shouldn't draft because of that. Build the team so someone can hopefully fall into the qb spot and be surrounded with elite talent.


ALA Stanzi.

we already have elite talent at the skill positions...jesus we used the #36 pick on a #3 RB

we need a QB, not a guard or a WR...

O.city
04-16-2012, 09:58 AM
we already have elite talent at the skill positions...jesus we used the #36 pick on a #3 RB

we need a QB, not a guard or a WR...

Yeah, but you can never have too much.


Besides I'm talking about using a 3 or 4 round pick on a guy, not a first. Hell the guy I want is projected to be a 4 or 5 rounder.

SNR
04-16-2012, 10:09 AM
Saints drafted Robert Meachum in the first when they didn't need a WR.

Packers drafted Randall Cobb last year in the 2nd when they didn't need a WR.

Is there any chance you'd argue either of those were poor selections?The Saints drafted Meachem when it was just Devery Henderson and Marques Colston at the position. The #3 WR slot was occupied by a broke dick Joe Horn and *huuuuuuhhhp* TERRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANCE..... COOOOOOOOOOOPPEEEEEEERRRRRRR

Drafting Meachem made sense from the perspective that they needed another WR in a 3-WR attack formation, since that team loved to chuck the ball around. Sure enough, Joe Horn retired the next year, and Copper couldn't always be bothered to use his talents for the team. Meachem was a smart pick.

Same with the Packers, who needed electricity in the kick return game as well as a more "gadgety" WR who would hopefully develop into a more reliable threat than James Jones, who still tends to sit in McCarthy's doghouse quite often.

Frosty
04-16-2012, 10:20 AM
I think the Chiefs will draft a WR but I seriously doubt it will be in the first two rounds.

That said, if the Chiefs were to trade #11 to NE for #27 and #31 (cross thread comment), I would have a really hard time passing on Stephen Hill if he were there.




(yes, I'm talking to myself. What of it? :harumph:)

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 10:22 AM
I am willing to bet something severe on my signature, like a one-year ownership of it, that this team will not take David DeCastro at any point in the 2012 NFL Draft.
...

No point to this thread, other than some random thoughts. I think Wright is a sleeper if the Chiefs trade down.

Holy shit...

Focus dude.

Urc Burry
04-16-2012, 10:25 AM
That said, if the Chiefs were to trade #11 to NE for #27 and #31 (cross thread comment), I would have a really hard time passing on Stephen Hill if he were there.




(yes, I'm talking to myself. What of it? :harumph:)

Meh, we already have a 6'4 receiver who isn't the best route runner. Too similar of a player to Bowe and Baldwin already

Frosty
04-16-2012, 10:26 AM
Meh, we already have a 6'4 receiver who isn't the best route runner. Too similar of a player to Bowe and Baldwin already

Way faster than either, though. I wouldn't mind a large receiver that can also stretch the field.

saphojunkie
04-16-2012, 10:35 AM
I am willing to bet something severe on my signature, like a one-year ownership of it, that this team will not take David DeCastro at any point in the 2012 NFL Draft.

Several reasons, which we've all visited:

The run game is mostly fine. We led the league in rushing two years ago with Thomas ****ing Jones taking half the carries, behind Ryan Lilja. Scott Pioli does not view Lilja as a weak spot, nor really should he for another year or two. DeCastro would offer an upgrade, but it would almost certainly involve cutting Lilja, which Pioli is not going to do. At the same time, DeCastro would offer an upgrade over Lilja in pass protection, but only a marginal one. Lilja is a technician in pass protection, and you're only going to see the upgrade against the bigger nose tackles when they're lined up over Lilja. Even then, as milkman said in another thread, Cassel still took over 40 sacks in New England behind their stud, first round guard. The Chiefs do have three good value guards under contract, and by good value I mean we have two solid starters and solid depth with Darryl Harris, which is what most teams strive for. All three first-rounders during the Pioli era have been selections at a position the team is perilously thin at (2009, DE; 2010, S; 2011, WR). Kind of a lesser argument here, but DeCastro was not a captain at Stanford, and has a reputation for being quiet as a Will Sheilds mouse. If Pioli's going to take a guard, he's going to want it to be a dynamic-changing personality -- not somebody who will just upgrade one spot, but somebody who will elevate several spots through force of will. Even more than picking an elite talent at guard, Pioli wants to stockpile 2012 and 2013 draft picks. It's infinitely more likely we'll trade out of the #11 to somebody who really wants DeCastro than it is we'll pick DeCastro ourselves.
It is still my opinion that this team wants Luke Kuechly. The Chiefs in 2013 will only have one ILB under contract in DJ. Siler and Belcher will be free agents, though I believe Pioli would love to keep Belcher, and I bet we can.

Although I really believe, following this front office as closely as I've tried to, that Mark Barron and Michael Brockers are both everything this front office loves in a prospect. The safety position is very thin now, and the DE position will be thin next year, assuming Brandon Bair doesn't blow up.

It doesn't take a lot to see that they are really intrigued by Tannehill.

And they no doubt love Riley Reiff, but of course we have no need for him.

Another dark horse, considering these factors: the Chiefs still lack a deep threat to stretch defenses, and Baldwin's shown flashes, but only flashes, at this point is still a bit unreliable.

Kendall Wright played for four years at Baylor, and was an emotional team captain for that offense (whereas RG3 is more of a cool-as-a-cucumber, poker face leader). Wright's timed speed means precisely jack and shit to Pioli, who's spoken at length about Kendrick Lewis playing faster than he timed -- and Wright plays like a 4.4 speed demon.

The Chiefs have Breaston and Baldwin another four years, and I don't think they'll get Bowe signed in July. They may hold off longer to see if Baldwin can take off, and if he does (and he's shown that he can...), they could always let Bowe walk or trade him off, and a WR corps of Baldwin, Breaston, and Wright would provide a perfect balance of weapons.

Of course, I hope we never do let Bowe go. In a passing league, there is plenty of room for four WR's to get lots of catches, and it would make life very easy for the QBotF after Cassel.

No point to this thread, other than some random thoughts. I think Wright is a sleeper if the Chiefs trade down.

It seems to me that Pioli has shows a tendency to fill offensive needs with veteran free agents and defensive needs through the draft. This says to me that offense is predicated on scheme, which requires guys knowing their job and executing, while the key to great defense starts with athleticism.

How many offensive weapons are there that lack speed, size, strength? Hines Ward, Wes Welker, Priest Holmes, Casey Wiegmann come immediately to mind. But I cannot think of great defenders that aren't tremendous athletes. You rarely hear about that linebacker who is slow and small, but just has a nose for the ball. Those guys get invited to training camp, but not the pro bowl.

I'm with you on Kuechly or Brockers.

BossChief
04-16-2012, 10:44 AM
If we are gonna let Bowe walk, we NEED to spend a second or third on Marvin McNutt in the 2012 draft.

Then, when we move on to RS he will have an already built in set of targets he trusts in Moeaki and McNutt.

All in all though, Carr walking is somewhat justified but letting a guy like Bowe walk would be inexcusable unless he is demanding Fitzgerald money and nothing less (which is not the case)

Coogs
04-16-2012, 10:57 AM
Here is the WR I am intriged with for a late round pick (we were one of the teams at his pro day too)...

WR Dale Moss has outstanding straight-line speed, but his three-cone time is what will really get NFL scouts' attention (courtesy of KSFY)

A deep third-day NFL draft crop of wide receivers got even deeper on Thursday, as South Dakota State wide receiver Dale Moss put up a set of numbers that might have even topped Stephen Hill's combine performance if Moss had done it in Indianapolis.

The 6'3", 213-pound receiver ran a 4.45 40-yard dash, according to the Yankton Daily Press & Dakotan, and Scout.com's Aaron Wilson reported that some scouts timed Moss as fast as 4.38. Those numbers would be impressive enough, but the YDP&D also gives us these astounding results:

An eye-popping 41.5 inches in the vertical jump, 10-feet-10 in the broad jump, and a 6.32 in the 3-cone drill.

As the article points out, the vertical would have been the second best at any position, and three-cone would have been the best.

The three-cone drill tests lateral agility, which is crucial for wide receivers who want to create separation from defensive backs by having crisp and sudden breaks in their routes. Shorter players usually ace it, and long-limbed receivers like Moss usually struggle a bit because of their body type (which is an advantage when comes time to haul in a pass).

For comparison's sake, the fastest three-cone time at the combine was Florida WR/RB Chris Rainey, who is 5'8" and 180 pounds.

Moss clearly inherited some of the genes that helped his uncle, Johnny Rodgers, win the Heisman Trophy with Nebraska in 1972. Moss was actually a basketball player at SDSU, but he had an extra year of athletic eligibility because he played as a true freshman.

In that one year, Moss caught 61 passes for 949 yards and six touchdowns. Wilson reports that 10 teams were in attendance, but all 32 will be hearing about this performance and thinking about placing a bet on the third day that Moss is the next small-school wonder at wide receiver.

O.city
04-16-2012, 10:58 AM
If we are going with a late round wr, give my TY Hilton.

Coogs
04-16-2012, 11:01 AM
If we are going with a late round wr, give my TY Hilton.

He is 5-10 175

Check out the numbers on Moss

6-3 213 on top of those numbers. 3 cone drill of 6.32 is reported to be one of the fastest of all time, not just this year.

the Talking Can
04-16-2012, 11:03 AM
i'm all for taking a WR or RB in later rounds

O.city
04-16-2012, 11:04 AM
Moss is big and fast, I really like that.


I like T.Y though in that he can help the return game as well as be a blazer slot guy.

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 11:05 AM
I am willing to bet something severe on my signature, like a one-year ownership of it, that this team will not take David DeCastro at any point in the 2012 NFL Draft.

Okay. I'll bite. After taking a first team All-American guard in 2010 in the third round (Asamoah) and a first team All-American guard in 2011 in the second round (Hudson), you are probably not going out on a limb too much by saying that they are not going to burn a first rounder on yet another first team All-American guard in 2012. And with both Harris and Lilja on the roster, the DeCastro pick is a tad bit redundant, don't you think?

Although I really believe, following this front office as closely as I've tried to, that Mark Barron and Michael Brockers are both everything this front office loves in a prospect. The safety position is very thin now, and the DE position will be thin next year, assuming Brandon Bair doesn't blow up.

Barron has had two relatively important surgeries (torn pec and double hernia) as well as an arrest on his record. He is not what they are looking for after drafting Lewis in 2010 and Berry in 2011, nor what Pioli loves in a prospect.

Brockers is what he loves though.

It doesn't take a lot to see that they are really intrigued by Tannehill.

I think it was a cursory look and nothing more. You have to make sure that you do your homework on players.

And they no doubt love Riley Reiff, but of course we have no need for him.

There is more of a need for an offensive tackle on this team than there is a defensive end. What happens if either Albert or Winston gets injured? Who's the depth at that position? What happens if Albert decides to go the free agent route after next year? At least at defensive end, we have Bailey and Bair. There is no one on the roster behind the starters at offensive tackle.

Another dark horse, considering these factors: the Chiefs still lack a deep threat to stretch defenses, and Baldwin's shown flashes, but only flashes, at this point is still a bit unreliable.

Kendall Wright...

Not a snowballs chance in hell.

There were rumors that the Chiefs really wanted Nate Solder last year. I think that they take a hard look at the position again.

In my personal opinion, this is what the Chiefs "big board" looks like:

1. Melvin Ingram, LB/DE/DT; South Carolina
- Originally was an ILB for the Gamecocks, but was used at every position along the defensive front seven. His versatility and athleticism is almost unmatched in this draft.

2. Riley Reiff, OT; Iowa
- I'm not completely sold on him, but we've drafted Hawkeye's in both of the past two drafts. Very solid technician who could play four positions on the line.

3. Michael Brockers, DT; LSU
- Absolute prototype for the 34 DE spot and perfect nose for the passing downs. SEC.

4. Dre Kirkpatrick, CB; Alabama
- Junior, but three year starter. Long and athletic. Could also play third safety in passing downs that Crennel likes to run.

5. Jon Martin, OT; Stanford
- I like better than Reiff due to his better usable strength and length.

O.city
04-16-2012, 11:09 AM
I don't think I'd not take a DE because of Bair. I think we look at one somewhere in this draft.


I really don't know who's at the top of the board. You can build up depth and one spot or another.

the Talking Can
04-16-2012, 11:09 AM
the chiefs have been looking for a mid-round tackle for a couple of years...we've had teams trade up over us to draft tackles each of the last two years, i think...

Baltimore (?) jumped us in the 3rd for a guy from South Florida

I just don't think they will draft OL in the first this year..

O.city
04-16-2012, 11:10 AM
I think we probably go after OL pretty heavy in the middle of this draft.

BossChief
04-16-2012, 11:11 AM
ROFL @ sac still calling for ot

Coogs
04-16-2012, 11:12 AM
I wonder if Massie is still on the board at #44 if we may not consider him? Most likely he will be gone, but I have seen a few mocks where he is right in that range.

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 11:18 AM
ROFL @ sac still calling for ot

Laugh all you want.

Who's the third tackle on this team?

Who's playing either tackle spot if Albert or Winston get injured?

Who's in the fold if someone gives Albert a Carr like contract, we let him go or he just walks after the 2012 season?

People seem to be fine mentioning OLB, ILB, DE, NT guys (e.g., Ingram/Mercilus; Kuechly/Hightower; Brockers/Still; Poe/Ta'amu respectively) for that first pick, but we have some depth at those positions, but it's not okay for OT? K. Shit...people around here want DeCastro, and we are freaking loaded at guard. Four deep with all of them being solid players.

How are you on DeCastro, btw? I think I'll go search around and see if you've advocated him in this draft. With Hudson, Asamoah, Lilja and Harris on the roster, I'd like to see who is wanting DeCastro with the #11 pick. Let's find out who the truly fucking stupid people are around here.

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 11:19 AM
I wonder if Massie is still on the board at #44 if we may not consider him? Most likely he will be gone, but I have seen a few mocks where he is right in that range.

Massie isn't very good. He's a pure right tackle that simply has relied on his size/strength to this point. He's technically/fundamentally flawed on most of his game. Major project that might never get it.

aturnis
04-16-2012, 11:19 AM
I do like Wright, but again, I think there are guys later that can do the same thing he does.


One of the two slot guys from Arkansas come to mind. Ty Hilton, etc.


This is the craziest spot I remember the Chiefs being in, with regards to a first round pick.

Not really too different from '09 when we took Tyson Jackson at #3. Our needs didn't match the value of the #3, and there wasn't much talent at the top of that draft anywhere else.

Direckshun
04-16-2012, 11:19 AM
Laugh all you want.

Who's the third tackle on this team?

Who's playing either tackle spot if Albert or Winston get injured?

Who's in the fold if someone gives Albert a Carr like contract, we let him go or he just walks after the 2012 season?

People seem to be fine mentioning OLB, ILB, DE, NT guys (e.g., Ingram/Mercilus; Kuechly/Hightower; Brockers/Still; Poe/Ta'amu respectively) for that first pick, but we have some depth at those positions, but it's not okay for OT? K.

All the things you say here apply even moreso to ILB, QB, S, or OLB.

One injury and we're fucked at those positions.

BossChief
04-16-2012, 11:20 AM
Laugh all you want.

Who's the third tackle on this team?

Who's playing either tackle spot if Albert or Winston get injured?

Who's in the fold if someone gives Albert a Carr like contract, we let him go or he just walks after the 2012 season?

People seem to be fine mentioning OLB, ILB, DE, NT guys (e.g., Ingram/Mercilus; Kuechly/Hightower; Brockers/Still; Poe/Ta'amu respectively) for that first pick, but we have some depth at those positions, but it's not okay for OT? K.
ROFL so we should take reef or Martin?

Hmog

SNR
04-16-2012, 11:20 AM
Wait we're talking about offensive tackles now? Quick! Flash the Sac Signal!

BLAM!
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/70/700134.jpg

BLAM!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GS4GcYVgXpM/ThXNuExihxI/AAAAAAAAAFk/R50dt4q2Tf4/s1600/bsmattreynolds.byucougars.jpg

BLAM!
http://byucougars.com/files/blog/b7_608_Matt-Ray.gif

O.city
04-16-2012, 11:20 AM
ILB, OLB, S, OL are the areas I expect us to really focus on in this draft. DL maybe too.

SNR
04-16-2012, 11:21 AM
Damn. Matt's been feasting on too many free-range cattle out in Utah in that last photo. That there's a biiiiiiiig ass

Direckshun
04-16-2012, 11:23 AM
Damn. Matt's been feasting on too many free-range cattle out in Utah in that last photo. That there's a biiiiiiiig ass

Ever see Levy Adcock tape?

Guy's a plodder, but he's got this big gut... barely looks like a football athlete.

the Talking Can
04-16-2012, 11:23 AM
we do need a tackle...but a tackle isn't going to play, barring injury

a DE or OLB is going to get some snaps based on rotations and situational packages...

which is why I think they'll grab the tackle later, imo

SNR
04-16-2012, 11:27 AM
Ever see Levy Adcock tape?

Guy's a plodder, but he's got this big gut... barely looks like a football athlete.
This is the best ass picture I could find of him. Which I was just browsing in a non-gay way

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/911/276/129686675_display_image.jpg?1329105641

aturnis
04-16-2012, 11:28 AM
Both the Arkansas guys, to my mind, are slot guys.

Hilton is more akin to what Wright does, an outside deep threat. And he offers a similar skill set.

He doesn't offer four years in a BCS conference and Wright's leadership abilities, however.

A.J. Jenkins?

aturnis
04-16-2012, 11:32 AM
The inside running game sucked with Jackie Battle and Thomas Jones, running behind Casey Wiegmann and Ryan Lilja.

Peyton Hillis and somebody like Robert Turbin in the 4th round? Running behind Rodney Hudson and Jon Asamoah?

Should not be an issue worth spending a 1st to repair.

Asamoah is pretty weak in the run game so far.

aturnis
04-16-2012, 11:34 AM
we already have elite talent at the skill positions...jesus we used the #36 pick on a #3 RB

we need a QB, not a guard or a WR...

So what, Tannehill? Need is a terrible evaluator.

the Talking Can
04-16-2012, 11:37 AM
So what, Tannehill? Need is a terrible evaluator.

a qb over a guard or a 4th WR, in the first round?

yes

BigChiefFan
04-16-2012, 11:46 AM
Seriously?? Wright over Malcolm Floyd?? Hope not, that's a huge reach at 11. Floyd should be available at 11 and is a better prospect and has more proto-typical size. I consider Wright a big reach at 11.

SNR
04-16-2012, 11:57 AM
Seriously?? Wright over Malcolm Floyd?? Hope not, that's a huge reach at 11. Floyd should be available at 11 and is a better prospect and has more proto-typical size. I consider Wright a big reach at 11.I'll betcha anything the Bills take Floyd at 10. Gailey needs to make headlines and get something going, and he can't do that if he drafts a fatty.

BigChiefFan
04-16-2012, 12:11 PM
I'll betcha anything the Bills take Floyd at 10. Gailey needs to make headlines and get something going, and he can't do that if he drafts a fatty.I've got them taking Riley Reiff at 10. Gailey knows the value of a LT and Reiff at 10 is a damn good value.

I've got Floyd going to the Jets at 16.

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 12:14 PM
All the things you say here apply even moreso to ILB, QB, S, or OLB.

One injury and we're ****ed at those positions.

The quarterback position - not so much. Quinn is at least even with Cassel. Stanzi? Who knows. He could be good. Pioli has talked him up recently (mentioned him favorably at the combine). We don't have Joe Montana in his prime, but neither does any other team.

OLB we have Sheffield and Studebaker, both of whom have experience playing the position at the NFL level.

ILB has Siler and Greenwood.

Safety? That's a concern spot and we'll probably look at that in this draft, though Brown or Washington could fill in in a pinch.

Tackle? Yeah, there is nobody after Albert and Winston. No one. Zilch. Zero. Nada.

And still people think we should draft DeCastro when guard is the deepest position on this team.

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 12:15 PM
Wait we're talking about offensive tackles now? Quick! Flash the Sac Signal!

BLAM!
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/70/700134.jpg

BLAM!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GS4GcYVgXpM/ThXNuExihxI/AAAAAAAAAFk/R50dt4q2Tf4/s1600/bsmattreynolds.byucougars.jpg

BLAM!
http://byucougars.com/files/blog/b7_608_Matt-Ray.gif

There you go.

In all honesty, I'd much rather have Matt Reynolds in the fourth than Reiff or Martin in the first. He's as good as either of them.

BossChief
04-16-2012, 12:44 PM
The quarterback position - not so much. Quinn is at least even with Cassel. Stanzi? Who knows. He could be good. Pioli has talked him up recently (mentioned him favorably at the combine). We don't have Joe Montana in his prime, but neither does any other team.

OLB we have Sheffield and Studebaker, both of whom have experience playing the position at the NFL level.

ILB has Siler and Greenwood.

Safety? That's a concern spot and we'll probably look at that in this draft, though Brown or Washington could fill in in a pinch.

Tackle? Yeah, there is nobody after Albert and Winston. No one. Zilch. Zero. Nada.

And still people think we should draft DeCastro when guard is the deepest position on this team.
Mimms is just as good of depth as a ot as any of those guys you listed as depth for our other positions.

Calling for Reiff or Martin in the first round for us is sac level dumbassery in regards to line play.

Seriously man, you are a good poster WHEN YOU AREN'T TALKING ABOUT OFFENSIVE LINES.

When you do, you paint yourself as a fool that I don't think you are at all.

It's a shame, really.

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 01:05 PM
Mimms is just as good of depth as a ot as any of those guys you listed as depth for our other positions.

Calling for Reiff or Martin in the first round for us is sac level dumbassery in regards to line play.

Seriously man, you are a good poster WHEN YOU AREN'T TALKING ABOUT OFFENSIVE LINES.

When you do, you paint yourself as a fool that I don't think you are at all.

It's a shame, really.

Mimms? Are you freaking kidding? He was a rook last year that was on the practice squad. He's 6'8" and 360 lbs. If he is even half-assed effective in a zone scheme I'll eat my hat. As good as depth as guys who have actual game time in this system?

Mimms? That's the guy you are hanging your argument on? Really?

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 01:09 PM
Calling for Reiff or Martin in the first round for us is sac level dumbassery in regards to line play.

From the guy who wants Tannehill (1 1/2 years as a starter after being converted to wide receiver in a total gimmick spread system) or Mark Barron (torn pec repair, double hernia repair, arrest who was no better than a third rounder to start the 2011 season).

That's your first round wish list?

Talk about dumbassery.

Sorter
04-16-2012, 01:29 PM
The quarterback position - not so much. Quinn is at least even with Cassel. Stanzi? Who knows. He could be good. Pioli has talked him up recently (mentioned him favorably at the combine). We don't have Joe Montana in his prime, but neither does any other team.

OLB we have Sheffield and Studebaker, both of whom have experience playing the position at the NFL level.

ILB has Siler and Greenwood.

Safety? That's a concern spot and we'll probably look at that in this draft, though Brown or Washington could fill in in a pinch.

Tackle? Yeah, there is nobody after Albert and Winston. No one. Zilch. Zero. Nada.

And still people think we should draft DeCastro when guard is the deepest position on this team.

At OLB, if we lose Tamba, we lose 14 sacks. No way Sheffield and Studebaker combine to replace that. Not including pressures, fumbles, etc. ILB is a nightmare if DJ goes down. My only reasoning for taking Kuechly is an insurance policy for Johnson. Because if he gets injured, we have nobody who can come close to doing what he does for our team defensively. There would definitely be a drop off with Kuechly playing instead of DJ, but it would be close to what we saw last year when Berry got hurt.
At Safety, we have nobody. However, its pretty much assumed we'll certainly address that via the draft.
At tackle, yes. There is certainly a liability behind Winston/Albert. I wouldn't be opposed to drafting one in the 4th-7th rounds. I personally wouldn't burn a high pick on it, but that's me.

Sorter
04-16-2012, 01:37 PM
A.J. Jenkins?

Would love to see us pick him up. Actually, I think receiver is the deepest position in this years draft by far. You have plenty of guys who can contribute as possession guys that will be available in the mid-late rounds, like McNutt, Fuller, Criner, Sanau. Then slot guys like Adams, Broyles, Hilton. You obviously have the 3 imo that can do it all in Blackmon, Floyd, and Wright. You also have the pure deep threats, which consists of Hill, Jenkins, Childs, and to some Jeffery/Randle. Seems to me there are multiple guys who will be able to contribute immediately on offense or on special teams.

Pestilence
04-16-2012, 01:46 PM
If you're going to be taking a player as an "insurance policy"....you take the OLB...not the ILB.

Sorter
04-16-2012, 01:51 PM
If you're going to be taking a player as an "insurance policy"....you take the OLB...not the ILB.

Agreed. I'm just trying to figure out some reasoning for us taking Kuechly. Don't really want him. However, I do think our defense will struggle without DJ.

Direckshun
04-16-2012, 06:37 PM
Careful, Sac.

Don't fall into the Drafturbator tactic of just shitting on people you disagree with. Especially when you refuse to admit you're wrong, as you've been want to do.

Hamas in exile along with Dane and Mecca's exodus from this board has made this one of the most civil draft seasons in CP history.

Bewbies
04-16-2012, 07:00 PM
Careful, Sac.

Don't fall into the Drafturbator tactic of just shitting on people you disagree with. Especially when you refuse to admit you're wrong, as you've been want to do.

Hamas in exile along with Dane and Mecca's exodus from this board has made this one of the most civil draft seasons in CP history.

Maybe, but a lot of the fun is gone too. And not just because of where we pick and who's available...

SNR
04-16-2012, 07:05 PM
Careful, Sac.

Don't fall into the Drafturbator tactic of just shitting on people you disagree with. Especially when you refuse to admit you're wrong, as you've been want to do.

Hamas in exile along with Dane and Mecca's exodus from this board has made this one of the most civil draft seasons in CP history.Go fuck yourself

Bewbies
04-16-2012, 07:30 PM
That's the spirit!!

Okie_Apparition
04-16-2012, 07:45 PM
A running back to prop up Cassel before a guard to protect him
Richardson's tag is too rich to pay

the Talking Can
04-16-2012, 08:03 PM
Careful, Sac.

Don't fall into the Drafturbator tactic of just shitting on people you disagree with. Especially when you refuse to admit you're wrong, as you've been want to do.

Hamas in exile along with Dane and Mecca's exodus from this board has made this one of the most civil draft seasons in CP history.

and most boring...

Direckshun
04-16-2012, 08:41 PM
Maybe, but a lot of the fun is gone too. And not just because of where we pick and who's available...

and most boring...

I'm not saying it's better. I love what Hamas and Mecca bring to the table. Dane was more performance art than anything.

But I don't need a flamewar to make my life interesting. You guys apparently do.

O.city
04-16-2012, 08:55 PM
After reading and watching clips, I think I'd rather take Hightower. If i'm taking an ILB.

SNR
04-16-2012, 08:55 PM
A running back to prop up Cassel before a guard to protect him
Richardson's tag is too rich to payGet AIDS, True Fan.

SNR
04-16-2012, 08:57 PM
I'm not saying it's better. I love what Hamas and Mecca bring to the table. Dane was more performance art than anything.

But I don't need a flamewar to make my life interesting. You guys apparently do.
Go shove a shotgun up your ass and blow off the top of your head.

Okie_Apparition
04-16-2012, 09:33 PM
Wake up naked in a briar patch with a tranny
Thomas Jones apologist

Nightfyre
04-16-2012, 09:35 PM
yea! An AIDS briar patch!

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 10:57 PM
He started it.

He's the one who started mentioning "dumbassery" and all that stuff.

Can I help it if he's a goat raping, ball licking sack of stupid that should have his pants pulled down and his dick grated with a micro-planar?

http://www.kitchendresser.net/ekmps/shops/hging/images/microplane-classic-premium-zester-grater-[2]-713-p.jpg

Reaper16
04-16-2012, 11:09 PM
If by "civil" you mean "an atmosphere that allows me to post innumerable threads that no one challenges because the subforum is so boring now" then you nailed it, Direckshun.

BossChief
04-16-2012, 11:26 PM
Mimms? Are you freaking kidding? He was a rook last year that was on the practice squad. He's 6'8" and 360 lbs. If he is even half-assed effective in a zone scheme I'll eat my hat. As good as depth as guys who have actual game time in this system?

Mimms? That's the guy you are hanging your argument on? Really?
You are citing guys like Greenwood, Siler, Sheffield, Studebaker and others as reasons we should take another OT and you think its fun to throw stones when you live in that crazy world of Okung and the magical Reiff?

Rich
From the guy who wants Tannehill (1 1/2 years as a starter after being converted to wide receiver in a total gimmick spread system) or Mark Barron (torn pec repair, double hernia repair, arrest who was no better than a third rounder to start the 2011 season).

That's your first round wish list?

Talk about dumbassery.

Tannehill has similar experience in college to guys like:

Aaron Rogers
Joe Flacco
Tom Brady
Cam Newton
Mark Sanchez (even though he isnt exactly the guy I would hang this argument on)

At quarterback, you can either ply the position or you cant.

Tannehill has the tools and work ethic to be considered a possible 3rd overall selection.

If your return argument is that "he is just being propped up by the weak class of quarterbacks" then, why isn't anyone else seemingly soaring up charts?

Saying Mark Barron was only a third rounder prior to this year isnt exactly telling it how it is, either.

His stock went up, sure....but he was always thought of as a high second rounder prior to this last year where he played a lot more in coverage and faired quite well, showing that he is a true dual threat safety and those are worth their weight in gold in todays NFL.

Saccopoo
04-16-2012, 11:59 PM
You are siting guys like Greenwood, Siler, Sheffield, Studebaker and others as reasons we should take another OT and you think its fun to throw stones when you live in that crazy world of Okung and the magical Reiff?

I'm not a Reiff fan. I think he's a guard at the next level. I could see them taking him though.

Tannehill has similar experience in college to guys like:

Aaron Rogers
Joe Flacco
Tom Brady
Cam Newton
Mark Sanchez (even though he isnt exactly the guy I would hang this argument on)

At quarterback, you can either ply the position or you cant.

Tannehill has the tools and work ethic to be considered a possible 3rd overall selection.

He's closer to Sanchez than the others as Rogers, Flacco and Newton were all playing QB, just transferred. Brady was a fifth year senior in a system that he was QB for the entire time.

He's supposedly a smart guy and athletic. But he's raw as sushi. All those guys you mentioned were more polished quarterbacks than Tannehill.

I'm not saying he can't become one, but it's going to take time and if the Chiefs sign him, I don't see him providing anything at this stage that they already have in Stanzi (and most likely substantially less at this point). Quinn is a big, physical prototype as well. I'd love to see what he's actually capable of now that he isn't getting thrown under the bus by Mangini or part of the Tebow circus in Denver. Here was a legit first round quarterback with all the tools, a great work ethic, experience in a pro system, and I don't think he's ever really been given a chance.

If your return argument is that "he is just being propped up by the weak class of quarterbacks" then, why isn't anyone else seemingly soaring up charts?

Because there isn't the "prototypes" available in this draft other than Tannehill.

If Wilson or Moore were three inches taller...If Weeden was five years younger...those three are superb quarterbacks - heady, students of the game that have produced extremely well, but they aren't "prototype" like Tannehill purportedly is. It's why guys like Boller and Russell go in the first round - because of the potential, because they can throw a ball 80 yards. Teams feel that a lot of the other stuff can be coached up or matured into. Sometimes it can, like Brett Favre. Sometimes it can't, like Ryan Leaf.

Cousins is suffering from the Brady syndrome - successful, team leader, throws a decent ball and steps up in game situations, but his measurables and looks are just meh.

Tannehill looks the part. He's the one apparently with the potential at this point.

I just haven't seen enough of it from him to justify it for the Chiefs to spend a near top ten draft pick on him. Call me conservative, but I think he's a long term project that may or may not get it. I'll take a guy like Moore in the later rounds based on his uncanny ability to take a team and elevate it and win versus a guy that's been relatively mediocre to this point but has "potential."

[QUOTE]Saying Mark Barron was only a third rounder prior to this year isnt exactly telling it how it is, either.

His stock went up, sure....but he was always thought of as a high second rounder prior to this last year where he played a lot more in coverage and faired quite well, showing that he is a true dual threat safety and those are worth their weight in gold in todays NFL.[QUOTE]

I think their situations are similar. Barron is a very athletic guy who hasn't put up huge numbers in the Alabama defense, but is going to get elevated based on his "potential" due to his size and athletic ability. Right now, he is not a better cover than Lewis is and he really hasn't shown that in his game to this point, especially considering that they had guys like Kirkpatrick in coverage and the amazing pressure up front.

Add to that the injury history (and a torn pec and double hernia surgeries are a concern), I don't think he's anywhere close to being a guy who you look at with the #11 pick, especially when you've got two really solid, young safeties in Berry and Lewis.

Just my take.

SNR
04-17-2012, 12:10 AM
If by "civil" you mean "an atmosphere that allows me to post innumerable threads that no one challenges because the subforum is so boring now" then you nailed it, Direckshun.This place hops along pretty well on its own. Direckshun is a big part of it, but so are tons of other posters. In years past it wasn't like Hamas and Mecca were posting draft threads left and right. They were certainly contributing, but it's not like Direckshun is filling the draft thread vacuum that formed when they both left.

BossChief
04-17-2012, 12:22 AM
See man, even though I disagree with a lot of what you posted...I don't want to stab my eyes out after reading it like I do when you talked about replacing Albert with Okung (over Eric Berry, FFS) or earlier when you talked about taking Reiff or Martin at 11.

A few things.

Mark Barron didn't put up big numbers because that front seven was NFL good last year. Just watching the games and what he did should make it clear as day that the kid will easily translate to the NFL game. His size/temperment/instincts are very very attractive to our defense and what it could mean to not only the starting safeties, but sub packages along with giving us the ability to move Berry to FS where he would be able to use his speed in coverage to do a lot more for us than Lewis can while keeping away from as much contact while his knee solidifies.

Barron improves more than just that, too. He is an enforcer that can fly and adds to the defenses "team speed".

I just obvious think a lot more of him than most guys here.

If we trade down, I can DEFINETLY see us targeting him.

You seem to want to dance around saying that Tannehill has the potential to be a franchise quarterback that can be a pocket passer as well as a guy that extends the play and uses his mobility to help guys get open. Those types of guys are what the NFL is
moving towards.

If he busts, we could absorb that without hurting the team at this point.

If he develops and reaches his potential, we are a superbowl team in two or three years with the talent we are stockpiling.

Even if we don't take Reiff or Martin.

BossChief
04-17-2012, 12:27 AM
This place hops along pretty well on its own. Direckshun is a big part of it, but so are tons of other posters. In years past it wasn't like Hamas and Mecca were posting draft threads left and right. They were certainly contributing, but it's not like Direckshun is filling the draft thread vacuum that formed when they both left.

I always kinda had a sneaking suspicion that Sac and Mecca were the same person, just posting from two different perspectives.

Drafturbator and true fan.

Both give good detail on prospects, but Mecca would go overboard on "playmakers" like when he almost sucked off CJ Spiller where Sac does the same thing on the opposite spectrum with guys like Okung.

Both bring a lot to the board, just in different ways.

I'm not sure exactly what side I truly belong to, but it was/is fun to debate with them/him.

KCrockaholic
04-17-2012, 12:44 AM
I actually miss Mecca.

I liked him.

But when the hell will FAX come back? Seriously. He can't leave forever. He's one of my top 3 favorite posters.

BossChief
04-17-2012, 12:54 AM
From what I understand, FAX has always taken these breaks from cp.

It's probably a healthy thing to do from time to time.

Mecca just had a complex that didn't allow him to ever acknowledge he was wrong and once he did and the team actually won games, he left.

It's a shame, he was a good poster, but he just couldn't take having all his knowledge blow up in his face so often.

buddha
04-18-2012, 07:35 AM
If we are gonna let Bowe walk, we NEED to spend a second or third on Marvin McNutt in the 2012 draft.

Then, when we move on to RS he will have an already built in set of targets he trusts in Moeaki and McNutt.

All in all though, Carr walking is somewhat justified but letting a guy like Bowe walk would be inexcusable unless he is demanding Fitzgerald money and nothing less (which is not the case)

You're the one who needs to jump off a building for that suggestion. We all know you are a massive Iowa homer, but how many NFL teams do you know that builds their rosters around back up QBs? McNutt in the 2nd or 3rd? Are you his brother? :thumb:

Chiefshrink
04-18-2012, 08:19 AM
Saints drafted Robert Meachum in the first when they didn't need a WR.

Packers drafted Randall Cobb last year in the 2nd when they didn't need a WR.

Is there any chance you'd argue either of those were poor selections?

BINGO !!:thumb:

However, I like Stephen Hill over Wright. He will be the next Mike Wallace/Victor Cruz. Yes I now they are 2 different type of receivers and I don't care if there is only 28 rec from this last season. When you just watch his combine speed, combine routes and especially his combine venus fly trap hands this guy has HUGE upside and WILL STRETCH THE FIELD !!

Yeah I know I referred to the 'combine' and not actual 'game play' but this guy is going to be very good.

Direckshun
04-18-2012, 08:23 AM
I think if Barron's on the board, you gotta think he's in the running to be a Chief if we end up trading down to the late teens.

One of Barron's injuries was a double hernia, which is not a recurring thing. Barron's arrest was such a minor charge it's hard to get worked up about.

Instead, Barron brings toughness, versatility, speed, power, brains, and leadership -- he was a team captain for Bama, for chrissakes.

Chiefshrink
04-18-2012, 08:29 AM
I think if Barron's on the board, you gotta think he's in the running to be a Chief if we end up trading down to the late teens.

One of Barron's injuries was a double hernia, which is not a recurring thing. Barron's arrest was such a minor charge it's hard to get worked up about.

Instead, Barron brings toughness, versatility, speed, power, brains, and leadership -- he was a team captain for Bama, for chrissakes.

Is there room for 2 Ed Reeds in our 2ndary? I like the thought of that!

buddha
04-18-2012, 08:36 AM
Is there room for 2 Ed Reeds in our 2ndary? I like the thought of that!

Wouldn't that be wonderful?

When the Chiefs used to have two terrific safeties, Cherry and Burress, the whole defense played at a higher level. Great safeties are a wonderful thing and it's often an undervalued position.

SuperChief
04-18-2012, 03:46 PM
From what I understand, FAX has always taken these breaks from cp.

It's probably a healthy thing to do from time to time.

Mecca just had a complex that didn't allow him to ever acknowledge he was wrong and once he did and the team actually won games, he left.

It's a shame, he was a good poster, but he just couldn't take having all his knowledge blow up in his face so often.

This is what's going to happen to GoatCheese. The dude is just a constant storm of negativity and wack perception lately.

Bewbies
04-18-2012, 03:57 PM
This is what's going to happen to GoatCheese. The dude is just a constant storm of negativity and wack perception lately.

He will never leave. His position will change to whatever post whore side brings him the most attention.

Not that I'm complaining or give a shit.

xztop12
04-18-2012, 04:04 PM
I don't like the Barron pick because I don't like drafting defensive players in the first round that aren't very rare athletes.(I think Romeo agrees here, Pioli maybe not as much.)

Guys with Barrons size/speed/strength and hit ability are more common than guys with Poe's size that can move like him, guys that can play and have Brockers size/length, and guys that can burst like Melvin Ingram at 270-280... As a late first or early second the pick becomes more tolerable

Urc Burry
04-18-2012, 04:06 PM
Mayock just said Kuechly is the best coverage ILN he's seen come out of college.

xztop12
04-18-2012, 04:20 PM
Mayock just said Kuechly is the best coverage ILN he's seen come out of college.

thats kinda cool

Austin Ed
04-18-2012, 04:35 PM
From the guy who wants Tannehill (1 1/2 years as a starter after being converted to wide receiver in a total gimmick spread system) or Mark Barron (torn pec repair, double hernia repair, arrest who was no better than a third rounder to start the 2011 season).

That's your first round wish list?

Talk about dumbassery.

Agreed. Dumb dumbassery

Bewbies
04-18-2012, 04:40 PM
I don't like the Barron pick because I don't like drafting defensive players in the first round that aren't very rare athletes.(I think Romeo agrees here, Pioli maybe not as much.)

Guys with Barrons size/speed/strength and hit ability are more common than guys with Poe's size that can move like him, guys that can play and have Brockers size/length, and guys that can burst like Melvin Ingram at 270-280... As a late first or early second the pick becomes more tolerable

Chapman is the NT you want in our D. Poe got a lot a tackles at Memphis, Chapman anchored the best defense in the land.

Barron and Chapman completes our top 5 D.

xztop12
04-18-2012, 05:19 PM
Chapman is the NT you want in our D. Poe got a lot a tackles at Memphis, Chapman anchored the best defense in the land.

Barron and Chapman completes our top 5 D.

theres really no way of knowing that. its possible but it could be other variables besides that, thats led to bamas success. do you ahve evidence for those 2 being the driving force to their D

Direckshun
04-18-2012, 05:29 PM
There are players that made shit happen on that Bama defense, and others that coasted from it.

It's not hard to figure out.

Chapman, Barron, and Hightower made shit happen.

Menzie and Upshaw clearly benefited from that.

Hoover
04-18-2012, 05:40 PM
There are players that made shit happen on that Bama defense, and others that coasted from it.

It's not hard to figure out.

Chapman, Barron, and Hightower made shit happen.

Menzie and Upshaw clearly benefited from that.
Like Peppers vs Sims

milkman
04-18-2012, 05:55 PM
ROFL @ sac still calling for ot

Actually, I agree with sac on this one.

If Albert or Winston are lost to injury, he's right, we have no one behind them to take over.

If sac's argument is that Reiff makes more sense than DeCastro or Kuechly, and that's how I understand it, then I, as I said, I agree with him on that.

Now I understand, also, that sac has had a hard on for replacing Albert for a long time, but if you take the argument he's making at face value without allowing his past dumbassery coloring your opinion, he does make a valid point.

I'd much rather look for tackle depth later, but were the Chiefs to draft Reif or Martin, that would not piss me off like taking Kuechly or DeCastro would.

Chiefnj2
04-18-2012, 06:10 PM
Actually, I agree with sac on this one.

If Albert or Winston are lost to injury, he's right, we have no one behind them to take over.

If sac's argument is that Reiff makes more sense than DeCastro or Kuechly, and that's how I understand it, then I, as I said, I agree with him on that.

Now I understand, also, that sac has had a hard on for replacing Albert for a long time, but if you take the argument he's making at face value without allowing his past dumbassery coloring your opinion, he does make a valid point.

I'd much rather look for tackle depth later, but were the Chiefs to draft Reif or Martin, that would not piss me off like taking Kuechly or DeCastro would.

DeCastro would be talented enough to start over Asamoah and Lilja. Reiff would be a backup. You'd rather use the #11 pick on a backup rather than a starter, even one at guard? That's messed up.

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2012, 06:11 PM
Actually, I agree with sac on this one.

If Albert or Winston are lost to injury, he's right, we have no one behind them to take over.

If sac's argument is that Reiff makes more sense than DeCastro or Kuechly, and that's how I understand it, then I, as I said, I agree with him on that.

Now I understand, also, that sac has had a hard on for replacing Albert for a long time, but if you take the argument he's making at face value without allowing his past dumbassery coloring your opinion, he does make a valid point.

I'd much rather look for tackle depth later, but were the Chiefs to draft Reif or Martin, that would not piss me off like taking Kuechly or DeCastro would.

DeCastro (Like Matthews) can play any position on the o-line except Left Tackle.

milkman
04-18-2012, 06:20 PM
DeCastro would be talented enough to start over Asamoah and Lilja. Reiff would be a backup. You'd rather use the #11 pick on a backup rather than a starter, even one at guard? That's messed up.

DeCastro (Like Matthews) can play any position on the o-line except Left Tackle.

And Reiff could play any position on the O-Line except center.

If you draft him, you get a new starter at guard that all the dumbasses are clamoring for, but a guy that can step outside to LT if the need arises.

And yes, a good backup LT is more valuable than a starter at guard.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 06:20 PM
You're the one who needs to jump off a building for that suggestion. We all know you are a massive Iowa homer, but how many NFL teams do you know that builds their rosters around back up QBs? McNutt in the 2nd or 3rd? Are you his brother? :thumb:

I'll bet everything I have McNutt doesn't make it out of the third round.

In fact, I bet there is a better chance he goes in the second round than the bottom half of the third round.

My thoughts on McNutt have very little to do with Stanzi.

The kid is gonna be a very dependable clutch player that moves the chains and puts points on the board.

I made it very clear that letting Bowe walk would be a huge mistake, but if we are gonna make that mistake we better at least fill the spot with a good prospect.

I've been talking up MM for three years on here.

whoman69
04-18-2012, 06:21 PM
Saints drafted Robert Meachum in the first when they didn't need a WR.

Packers drafted Randall Cobb last year in the 2nd when they didn't need a WR.

Is there any chance you'd argue either of those were poor selections?

Considering who their QBs are, no. Adding another weapon to the arsenal that Cassel can't use...

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2012, 06:22 PM
And Reiff could play any position on the O-Line except center.

If you draft him, you get a new starter at guard that all the dumbasses are clamoring for, but a guy that can step outside to LT if the need arises.

And yes, a good backup LT is more valuable than a starter at guard.

He's not near the player DeCastro projects to be.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 06:25 PM
And Reiff could play any position on the O-Line except center.

If you draft him, you get a new starter at guard that all the dumbasses are clamoring for, but a guy that can step outside to LT if the need arises.

And yes, a good backup LT is more valuable than a starter at guard.

If we have no other options than Reiff, Decastro or Kuechly...I totally agree with you.

That's not the case, though.

Give me Barron and a mid round center.

milkman
04-18-2012, 06:26 PM
He's not near the player DeCastro projects to be.

I'm fully aware of their projections, but I would not ever consider using a top 15 pick on a dedicated guard.

I don't care how you present the argument, and DJ's left nut does the best job at presenting an argument, the fact is, and always will be, that guard is not a difference making position, and you don't use premium picks on that.

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2012, 06:27 PM
It's been reported that Reiff is expected to slip now. Using what Milkman said we'd be better off trading down and getting Cordy Glenn.

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2012, 06:30 PM
I'm fully aware of their projections, but I would not ever consider using a top 15 pick on a dedicated guard.

I don't care how you present the argument, and DJ's left nut does the best job at presenting an argument, the fact is, and always will be, that guard is not a difference making position, and you don't use premium picks on that.

It's a safe pick do you think it sets the team back 5 years down the road?

BossChief
04-18-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm pretty sure Reiff started every line position at Iowa except center.

This front office LOVES versatility and drafts it at a premium.

Dexter and Arenas are perfect examples of that.

milkman
04-18-2012, 06:33 PM
It's been reported that Reiff is expected to slip now. Using what Milkman said we'd be better off trading down and getting Cordy Glenn.

Hell, we'd be better off trading down, regardless.

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2012, 06:35 PM
Hell, we'd be better off trading down, regardless.

I'm for it unless Ingram or Tannehill are sitting there at 11.

milkman
04-18-2012, 06:35 PM
It's a safe pick do you think it sets the team back 5 years down the road?

I would always use a premium pick on a player at a difference making position over "safe" picks.

And in today's NFL, there isn't a single pick that will set you back 5 years.

milkman
04-18-2012, 06:36 PM
I'm for it unless Ingram or Tannehill are sitting there at 11.

As much as I like what Ingram offers to this D, I would still be in favor of trading down.

We agree on Tannehill.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 06:36 PM
I'm such an Iowa homer that I called Bulaga falling to the 20s and have said over and over that Reiff will probably slip to a similar spot.

WAYYYY before ANYONE else did in the media.

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2012, 06:38 PM
I saw on Twitter the Jags want to trade out and are hoping we'd trade up to get Tannehill. What would that cost us? A 3rd?

BossChief
04-18-2012, 06:39 PM
As much as I like what Ingram offers to this D, I would still be in favor of trading down.

We agree on Tannehill.

That Mercilus kid should be in the conversation, as should Barron.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 06:47 PM
I saw on Twitter the Jags want to trade out and are hoping we'd trade up to get Tannehill. What would that cost us? A 3rd?

I'd come at them like this.

We will give you the 11 pick and a third...and a conditional pick as follows: if Tannehill wins a playoff game for us during his rookie deal, we will send you another third rounder in the ensuing draft...if he wins two playoff games it goes up to a second...superbowl, a first.

That would be a GREAT deal for both sides.

O.city
04-18-2012, 07:10 PM
I wouldn't mind trading up for Tannehill. Don't really like it, but wouldn't mind.


I'm starting to extremely hope it plays out something like this.


The Chiefs can trade back, getting an extra 3. Take Barron.

Secondary is good. Scary good and young save for corner, but I will get to that.

Use your that third and some other picks to trade back up into the first and take Konz.

Offensive line is set. Or sit in the second and take Janoris Jenkins when he falls, which he will.

Take Chapman as soon as you have to to make sure you get him.


Barron
Konz
Chapman


Thats a winner draft right there.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 07:14 PM
Go look at my mock draft, buddy.

IMO it's the best one out there for us...with the exception of moving up for Tannehill.

Also, don't sleep on Jalil Brown.

I think he can be about as good as Carr was in a year or two.

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2012, 07:20 PM
I'd come at them like this.

We will give you the 11 pick and a third...and a conditional pick as follows: if Tannehill wins a playoff game for us during his rookie deal, we will send you another third rounder in the ensuing draft...if he wins two playoff games it goes up to a second...superbowl, a first.

That would be a GREAT deal for both sides.

It's certainly an outside the box way of thinking and I like it. How long would Tannehill's rookie contract be? 5 years? I don't think he'll be ready for about 3 years though.

O.city
04-18-2012, 07:23 PM
I don't really want them to play him next year, but I think the best way to learn is to be thrown into the fire.


I know the Rodgers situation worked out. But look how many qbs are behind other guys that never turn out.


Supposedly, Tannehill has greatly improved his mechanics this offseason.


IMO the best way to learn the speed of the NFL, is to play in the NFL. Now I don't want to ruin him like the Jags possibly might have with Gabbert, but I think with our talent he could easily lean on the run and get his feet wet early.

Look at how fast his learning curve has been so far.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 07:31 PM
It's certainly an outside the box way of thinking and I like it. How long would Tannehill's rookie contract be? 5 years? I don't think he'll be ready for about 3 years though.5 years with a heavily inflated 6th year team option iirc.

I don't really want them to play him next year, but I think the best way to learn is to be thrown into the fire.


I know the Rodgers situation worked out. But look how many qbs are behind other guys that never turn out.


Supposedly, Tannehill has greatly improved his mechanics this offseason.

IMO the best way to learn the speed of the NFL, is to play in the NFL. Now I don't want to ruin him like the Jags possibly might have with Gabbert, but I think with our talent he could easily lean on the run and get his feet wet early.

Look at how fast his learning curve has been so far.
I'd only sit him for one year...even if Cassel is terrible, I still go with Stanzi and the only way Stanzi is the starter in 2013 is if he plays so well you can't sit him or someone coughs up a premium pick (first or second round) for him.

Otherwise, Cassel is cut at years end and Tannehill is the cemented starter the next 2 1/2 years...barring injury.

O.city
04-18-2012, 07:34 PM
Probably right Boss, but I just look at what Andy Dalton did last year.



I think Tannehill is better than Dalton. Probably needs a little while to get there mentally but physically yeah.

Tannehill could be a game manager for a year, I don't care.

milkman
04-18-2012, 07:43 PM
Probably right Boss, but I just look at what Andy Dalton did last year.



I think Tannehill is better than Dalton. Probably needs a little while to get there mentally but physically yeah.

Tannehill could be a game manager for a year, I don't care.

I think Dalton was more NFL ready than Tannehill is.

I also think Dalton will be a good QB for years, but will never be among the top tier QBs.

I think that Tannehill has a much higher ceiling (as well as a much lower floor), but I also believe that there are some QBs that absolutely can be ruined by starting them too soon, and Tannehill is likely one of those (as I believe Mark Sanche was, but that's another discussion).

I've said it many times through the years.

If you believe that a QB has the tools to be a franchise QB, even if you believe he is a project, you take him high.

O.city
04-18-2012, 07:45 PM
I think Dalton was more NFL ready than Tannehill is.

I also think Dalton will be a good QB for years, but will never be among the top tier QBs.

I think that Tannehill has a much higher ceiling (as well as a much lower floor), but I also believe that there are some QBs that absolutely can be ruined by starting them too soon, and Tannehill is likely one of those (as I believe Mark Sanche was, but that's another discussion).

I've said it many times through the years.

If you believe that a QB has the tools to be a franchise QB, even if you believe he is a project, you take him high.


They surely can be ruined. Gabbert, IMO, will likely never be what he could have been.


That said, I just think the best way to learn is for the bullets to start flying.

Even if we sit him for a year, it's gonna take another full year for him to get his feet under him.


However, as I've been thru the last 24 years of my life with the way the Chiefs have been with a qb, i'll gladly wait another year for one to sit on the bench and learn the way to play.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 07:58 PM
The thing Dalton had going for him was that he was the starter from day one of camp and got all the first team snaps after being a starter at tcu for almost twice as long as Tannehill.

Tannehill would probably get "red shirted" for us so Pioli can try to build some tradable value for Cassel and wouldn't get many (if any at all) first team snaps.

I'd also like to say that if a quarterback can be "ruined" by starting him too early, how do you properly judge his ability to fight through adversity and grow as a leader? That's one of the most important aspects for a quarterback you feel you can win a superbowl with because he WILL face heavy adversity the deeper he goes in the playoffs.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 08:21 PM
If I'm Pioli, I see Tannehill as the perfect fit.

He desperately wants to boost his ego and how better to do that than to take Tannehill with intensions of sitting him at least one full year and maybe two years while Pioli can get to see what Cassel does to build his trade value while developing the mental part of Tannehills game so he is mentally prepared for things teams will try to do to him in games.

On top of that, he has a dark horse with a good resume in Stanzi.

That's three ways Pioli can boost his personal ego.

milkman
04-18-2012, 08:24 PM
The thing Dalton had going for him was that he was the starter from day one of camp and got all the first team snaps after being a starter at tcu for almost twice as long as Tannehill.

Tannehill would probably get "red shirted" for us so Pioli can try to build some tradable value for Cassel and wouldn't get many (if any at all) first team snaps.

I'd also like to say that if a quarterback can be "ruined" by starting him too early, how do you properly judge his ability to fight through adversity and grow as a leader? That's one of the most important aspects for a quarterback you feel you can win a superbowl with because he WILL face heavy adversity the deeper he goes in the playoffs.

I think it has to be a case by case basis, but the most obvious reason that some QBs can be ruined is that those would likely be the ones with the lower floors.

You start them too early, and they revert to old, bad habits, and never are able to get through that.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 08:45 PM
I think it has to be a case by case basis, but the most obvious reason that some QBs can be ruined is that those would likely be the ones with the lower floors.

You start them too early, and they revert to old, bad habits, and never are able to get through that.

Then thats a guy that doesn't have the mental toughness to overcome adversity.

For me, I prefer the "throw them into the fire" approach.

I want to see how my boy reacts after he gets hit in the mouth.

Does he back off and play timid after an early pick? Or is he a fighter that will come out throwing darts after walking up and down the sideline telling his teammates he owes them one? (this is something Stanzi did a few times that really made me a fan. Especially his first year playing Indiana)

Is his head in it after he gets rattled a few times...meaning, does he still process as much information during the plays after getting hit, or does he get lazy and stare guys down.

Then, after his first year starting, does he "own the team" and does he appear to "step it up" and take the next step and how do his teammates respond to the change?

There are a million positives to "throwing the kid in the fire"

Coogs
04-18-2012, 08:50 PM
Actually, Tannehill may be better off starting here than Luck with the Colts in the first year just due to the fact that the Chiefs have a much better supporting cast in place than the Colts do.

milkman
04-18-2012, 09:07 PM
Then thats a guy that doesn't have the mental toughness to overcome adversity.

For me, I prefer the "throw them into the fire" approach.

I want to see how my boy reacts after he gets hit in the mouth.

Does he back off and play timid after an early pick? Or is he a fighter that will come out throwing darts after walking up and down the sideline telling his teammates he owes them one? (this is something Stanzi did a few times that really made me a fan. Especially his first year playing Indiana)

Is his head in it after he gets rattled a few times...meaning, does he still process as much information during the plays after getting hit, or does he get lazy and stare guys down.

Then, after his first year starting, does he "own the team" and does he appear to "step it up" and take the next step and how do his teammates respond to the change?

There are a million positives to "throwing the kid in the fire"

I disagree.

A kid that is a project because he has to learn some new mechanics isn't going to play with the confidence of a kid that has more advanced mechanics.

This is not a case of mental toughness, at all.

You first have to believe in what you're doing, and no one, learning something new, believes that new is necessarily improved until they can feel it.

Start him too early, and he may never fully believe in his new mechanics.

BossChief
04-18-2012, 09:34 PM
From what I could tell, I dont think Tannehill is in need of major mechanical overhaul at all.

He has a compact, quick release and has good footwork.

What he lacks is experience.

I don't think he should start his first year, but I don't think he needs to sit for a lot more than that, either.

One thing is for sure.

There isn't much this team did over the last few years that a rookie quarterback couldn't do.

milkman
04-18-2012, 09:42 PM
From what I could tell, I dont think Tannehill is in need of major mechanical overhaul at all.

He has a compact, quick release and has good footwork.

What he lacks is experience.

I don't think he should start his first year, but I don't think he needs to sit for a lot more than that, either.

One thing is for sure.

There isn't much this team did over the last few years that a rookie quarterback couldn't do.

No, it isn't a big adjustment, but that is why it can be so easy to fall back into the old familiar habit.

O.city
04-18-2012, 09:51 PM
I think it all depends on the mentality of the player.


Look at Manning. He was thrown to the wolves, sucked his first year, then has owned since.

Some guys never recover from that.


What did Matt Ryan do his first year as a starter? I'm curious and can't remember.

Urc Burry
04-19-2012, 05:36 PM
Hey Direckshun word is Wright had 16% body fat at the combine which is a huge red flag. Some teams have put a 3rd round grade on him. He would be great value in the second

Sorter
04-19-2012, 06:16 PM
I think it all depends on the mentality of the player.


Look at Manning. He was thrown to the wolves, sucked his first year, then has owned since.

Some guys never recover from that.


What did Matt Ryan do his first year as a starter? I'm curious and can't remember.


First year, Matty Ice completed 61.1% 3,440 yrds 7.93ypa 16td 11int 87.7rtg

Pretty solid, not spectacular numbers. Little better than Dalton's imo
58.1% 3,398yds 6.59 20td 13int 80.4rtg

Interestingly, they were both QBs on teams that were horrible the year before and lead them to a first round playoff loss to eventual SB participants. Unfortunately, every team Matt Ryan has lost to in the playoffs has advanced to the SB. Ouch.

Sorter
04-19-2012, 06:17 PM
Hey Direckshun word is Wright had 16% body fat at the combine which is a huge red flag. Some teams have put a 3rd round grade on him. He would be great value in the second

That'd be awesome if he fell that far.