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ChiefMojo
04-18-2012, 06:11 AM
Alabama NT Josh Chapman not only visited the Chiefs this week but he is on track to be 100% ready for training camp after recovering from ACL surgery.

I definitely like Chapman and the Washington NT over Poe. With our history of drafting SEC players, wouldn't surprise me we took Chapman in the 3rd round.

Starting to feel OG, QB, NT, etc. in the first 3-rounds.

http://arkansas.scout.com/a.z?s=10&p=9&c=2&cid=1178302&nid=5751721&fhn=1

spanky 52
04-18-2012, 06:55 AM
Also like Chapman, he may not have the desired weight but he's tough and like you said, SEC. If he's rebounding well from his ACL surgery he may go higher than the third.

the Talking Can
04-18-2012, 07:26 AM
he is one tough son of a bitch...and might go in the second

not as much of a fat ass, but i'd take him

Bewbies
04-18-2012, 07:32 AM
YES!!

suds79
04-18-2012, 08:06 AM
Ah you can put on weight and it can serve you well at that NT position.

Look at Vince Wilfork. I Swear that man is flirting with 4 bills. He was huge when he came in the league. But nothing like now.

Unless Josh's frame simply isn't large enough to ever get to that standard 330 NT size.

... I'll take Chapman if we can't get Ta'amu.

buddha
04-18-2012, 08:39 AM
Chapman is one of those quick NT kind of guys. You don't want him getting massive. Also, his knees won't take the added pressure well at this point.

I like him a lot. He's tough, he makes plays, and best of all, he's a production guy, not a potential guy.

suds79
04-18-2012, 08:44 AM
Chapman is one of those quick NT kind of guys. You don't want him getting massive. Also, his knees won't take the added pressure well at this point.

If that's true then I don't want him.

I think Jay Ratliff is about the only lighter NT in the league that I can think of. Even if there is another, the other 98% of NTs in the league are your 330+ space eaters. That style has proven to be successful. I want that.

buddha
04-18-2012, 09:12 AM
If that's true then I don't want him.

I think Jay Ratliff is about the only lighter NT in the league that I can think of. Even if there is another, the other 98% of NTs in the league are your 330+ space eaters. That style has proven to be successful. I want that.

Are you 12 years old? There have been many excellent "lighter" NGs. I don't necessarily advocate for one style or the other, but it's silly to say that Ratliff is about the only lighter NG.

It's not the weight that makes a NG good, btw. You can find a blob anywhere and put him there...not the answer.

Direckshun
04-18-2012, 09:18 AM
he is one tough son of a bitch...and might go in the second

not as much of a fat ass, but i'd take him

His ass is fat enough for our scheme.

I think he's got some pounds and inches on Kelly Gregg.

I'm really starting to sour on Ta'amu. I felt at the start of the draft season that he was more of a 4-3 NT than a 3-4 NT, but slowly started changing my mind.

I've reverted. I think Ta'amu busts as a 3-4 NT -- our system is so different from the wide-open defenses employed in the Pac 12.

Chapman is our best bet. I'd understand if the Chiefs burned a 2nd on him.

Chiefshrink
04-18-2012, 09:27 AM
His ass is fat enough for our scheme.

I think he's got some pounds and inches on Kelly Gregg.

I'm really starting to sour on Ta'amu. I felt at the start of the draft season that he was more of a 4-3 NT than a 3-4 NT, but slowly started changing my mind.

I've reverted. I think Ta'amu busts as a 3-4 NT -- our system is so different from the wide-open defenses employed in the Pac 12.

Chapman is our best bet. I'd understand if the Chiefs burned a 2nd on him.

So if Cox is there at 11 his athleticism does not override his light weight? I realize you need to be a space eater and he is only 300lbs but couldn't he get up to 315 and still use his athleticism to take up 2 spaces? The tape doesn't lie and I really like the way this guy plays.

SNR
04-18-2012, 09:28 AM
If that's true then I don't want him.

I think Jay Ratliff is about the only lighter NT in the league that I can think of. Even if there is another, the other 98% of NTs in the league are your 330+ space eaters. That style has proven to be successful. I want that.It would be nice if Josh Chapman had more weight. I'm not huge on taking only 330+ pounders, but Chapman is pretty light. 310 is about where he measures.

The reason why I'm not concerned at all about Chapman? He squats 630 lbs and benches 600. Those are the best numbers out of anyone on Alabama's team, at least at the start of last season. Poe may have had an impressive combine, but I'll betcha anything that if Chapman didn't have his injury and was able to get measured at the combine we'd be talking about HIM as the physical freak and not Poe.

It'd be nice if he could naturally get a bit heavier, but it's not a must. He's absolutely got the technique advantage over any other NT in this draft, and he'll have no problems at all in the conditioning department.

buddha
04-18-2012, 09:30 AM
It would be nice if Josh Chapman had more weight. I'm not huge on taking only 330+ pounders, but Chapman is pretty light. 310 is about where he measures.

The reason why I'm not concerned at all about Chapman? He squats 630 lbs and benches 600. Those are the best numbers out of anyone on Alabama's team, at least at the start of last season. Poe may have had an impressive combine, but I'll betcha anything that if Chapman didn't have his injury and was able to get measured at the combine we'd be talking about HIM as the physical freak and not Poe.

It'd be nice if he could naturally get a big heavier, but it's not a must. He's absolutely got the technique advantage over any other NT in this draft, and he'll have no problems at all in the conditioning department.

I agree. The strength of Chapman trumps any size concerns. Honestly, 310 lbs. is big enough to cause plenty of havoc if he plays with good quickness, leverage and motor. Chapman does those things...Poe doesn't.

suds79
04-18-2012, 09:47 AM
Are you 12 years old? There have been many excellent "lighter" NGs. I don't necessarily advocate for one style or the other, but it's silly to say that Ratliff is about the only lighter NG.

It's not the weight that makes a NG good, btw. You can find a blob anywhere and put him there...not the answer.

Not saying you don't have to have talent. I'm just saying look at the trend of what's successful in today's NFL. That's why the position is so hard to find. There simply are not many people in the world large & strong enough to play the position.

But since you've said there have been many "lighter" NTs, go ahead and start listing. And I'll list the larger NTs. We'll see what comes out ahead.

O.city
04-18-2012, 09:51 AM
I think he's big enough. The dude is ox like strong. Thats what you need. A big body thats strong and can hold his ground when a guard and center are pushing on him.

SNR
04-18-2012, 10:06 AM
I think he's big enough. The dude is ox like strong. Thats what you need. A big body thats strong and can hold his ground when a guard and center are pushing on him.Ox strong.

Country strong.

What's TJack? Patriot way strong?

the Talking Can
04-18-2012, 10:09 AM
His ass is fat enough for our scheme.

I think he's got some pounds and inches on Kelly Gregg.

I'm really starting to sour on Ta'amu. I felt at the start of the draft season that he was more of a 4-3 NT than a 3-4 NT, but slowly started changing my mind.

I've reverted. I think Ta'amu busts as a 3-4 NT -- our system is so different from the wide-open defenses employed in the Pac 12.

Chapman is our best bet. I'd understand if the Chiefs burned a 2nd on him.

agreed...and there are zero concerns about this guy's commitment, which is usually an issue for fatties

O.city
04-18-2012, 10:18 AM
All the Bama lb's said Chapman was the reason for their d being what it is.


Like some have said, if we throw a second rounder at him, i'm fine with it.

the Talking Can
04-18-2012, 10:31 AM
Chapman sustained his injury in a game against Florida on Oct. 1. A few days later, an MRI revealed he had torn the anterior cruciate ligament and meniscus in his left knee. "Dr. (Lyle) Cain said he's never seen a guy that can have a torn ACL and still stay that stable," Chapman told the Birmingham News. Chapman decided to delay surgery and finish out the season. He missed one game, but played in the eight others that followed the injury. Chapman played a total of 12 games this past season, sitting out Alabama's 45-21 win over Georgia Southern on Nov. 19. Georgia Southern rolled up 302 rushing yards against the Crimson Tide.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=69317&draftyear=2012&genpos=DT

Direckshun
04-18-2012, 10:55 AM
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=69317&draftyear=2012&genpos=DT

DRAFT HIM.

Bewbies
04-18-2012, 04:18 PM
He's got to be #1 on our draft board at NT. I'd rather have him than Terrance Cody...

whoman69
04-18-2012, 07:25 PM
Most drafts show him a round 3 or 4 guy. If we don't get a DT in the 2nd, I would certainly like to see us shore up this position with Chapman.

O.city
04-18-2012, 08:14 PM
I think/ hope we are very interested in this guy.


Pioli loves defensive guys from the SEC and this guy is a good one.

BryanBusby
04-18-2012, 09:54 PM
He's got to be #1 on our draft board at NT. I'd rather have him than Terrance Cody...

Yep. He fits the role very well and comes from a program that's been churning out quality defensive talent at an impressive rate.

BigCatDaddy
04-19-2012, 07:37 AM
Brockers and Chapman would be nice additions to sure up our weakest link on D.

YayMike
04-19-2012, 09:03 AM
How about this scenario that i haven't seen suggested:

Trade our 3rd rounder to move up to get Tannehill from Jax.
Draft Chapman with our 2nd rounder to ensure that we get him. (Of course trading down in the 2nd round is also an option, still allowing us to get him, say we get an extra 4th for trading down)
draft the best center/guard with our 4th rounder.
IF we trade down in the second, draft the best remaining safety with the other 4th rounder.

We would have essentially filled all of our needs while taking a chance on getting a franchise QB that we desparately need.

Thoughts?

Coogs
04-19-2012, 09:14 AM
How about this scenario that i haven't seen suggested:

Trade our 3rd rounder to move up to get Tannehill from Jax.
Draft Chapman with our 2nd rounder to ensure that we get him. (Of course trading down in the 2nd round is also an option, still allowing us to get him, say we get an extra 4th for trading down)
draft the best center/guard with our 4th rounder.
IF we trade down in the second, draft the best remaining safety with the other 4th rounder.

We would have essentially filled all of our needs while taking a chance on getting a franchise QB that we desparately need.

Thoughts?

I'd be good with that. I don't think that we necessarily need all 8 of our draft picks this year... especially after what we did in the free agency period.

Frosty
04-19-2012, 10:09 AM
How about this scenario that i haven't seen suggested:

Trade our 3rd rounder to move up to get Tannehill from Jax.
Draft Chapman with our 2nd rounder to ensure that we get him. (Of course trading down in the 2nd round is also an option, still allowing us to get him, say we get an extra 4th for trading down)
draft the best center/guard with our 4th rounder.
IF we trade down in the second, draft the best remaining safety with the other 4th rounder.

We would have essentially filled all of our needs while taking a chance on getting a franchise QB that we desparately need.

Thoughts?

Tannehill, Chapman, Molk and a RB in 5-7 would be fine with me.

buddha
04-19-2012, 10:30 AM
But since you've said there have been many "lighter" NTs, go ahead and start listing. And I'll list the larger NTs. We'll see what comes out ahead.

You are twelve after all. ROFL

We just need one. If that player is a Alan Page/Tim Krumrie type of player, fine. If he's a big blob that can play as well, fine.

ChiefMojo
04-19-2012, 10:47 AM
Chapman is considered by some a 3/4 round guy due to his injury. His talents are probably more along the line of late 1st into the 2nd round.

I like him a LOOTTTT more than Poe.

suds79
04-19-2012, 11:37 AM
You are twelve after all. ROFL

We just need one. If that player is a Alan Page/Tim Krumrie type of player, fine. If he's a big blob that can play as well, fine.

Thanks for backing up your post by listing them off. Alan Page & Tim Krumrie. Fantastic. Welcome to the past. When you're ready to look at today's NFL, let me know.

Nobody said anything about not needing to have talent. But when you're ready to look at trends...

Ravens - Terrence Cody 349
Steelers - Casey Hampton 325
Patriots - Vince Wilfork 325 (if you believe that)
Jets - Sione Pouha 325
Packers - B.J. Raji 337
Dolphins - Paul Soliai 355

Just to get started. Can do this all day while still waiting for your list of there have been many "lighter" NTs

Where are they?

The main point is that there are size requirements to play the position effectively. I'll contend that Jay Ratliff is the Tom Brady of the position. He's the exception rather than the rule. Don't you think if a lighter DT could play the nose the Chiefs would have tried out Glenn Dorsey there already? With everything they've invested in him? But no. He's not big enough.

royr17
04-19-2012, 12:54 PM
DT (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracker/by-position/position/dl)

Josh Chapman

Alabama (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracker/by-college/college/88) SEC (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracker/by-college/conference/sec)


http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/combine/headshots/2532811.jpg

http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/3.13/img/share-bar/fb-like.png
http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/3.13/img/share-bar/share-button.png


Combine Results

Grade

72.5 ? (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/josh-chapman?id=2532811#)


6'1" Height
32" Arm Length
316LBS. Weight
11 7/8" Hands

<section> Overview

Chapman was a consistent two-down nose tackle at Alabama. His stats do not stand out, but he was the bowling ball that kept the defense rolling. He can stuff lanes inside and keep linebackers free to make plays. He doesn't flash anything special, but he will be a dependable inside presence on a 3-4 defense and will likely be selected in the second round.
</section> <section> Analysis

<article> Strengths

Chapman is an average athlete for his size, but he knows how to use his incredible strength and frame to clog lanes. He isn't going to do anything against the run or as a pass rusher, but he can make it possible for linebackers to play free and make plays on the ball. He is a secure tackler and very effective when double-teamed. He is a smart player who understands his role. His athletic ability, balance and size are what make him such an effective space-eating nose tackle. </article> <article> Weaknesses

Chapman rarely makes plays on the ball. Though he will make a tackle on a run play when given the opportunity, Chapman often looks as if doesn't strive to do much beyond clog lanes. He has issues when rushing the passer and has trouble squeezing the pocket; his production usually comes from his strength. While he can handle double teams, it is uncommon for him to beat them. Chapman will also move off the line of scrimmage slowly when tired. He will need to work on his overall conditioning to have value in the NFL. </article> </section>

Coogs
04-19-2012, 01:03 PM
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Here is Chapman playing against LSU after his knee injury.

suds79
04-19-2012, 01:04 PM
<article> Weaknesses

Chapman rarely makes plays on the ball. Though he will make a tackle on a run play when given the opportunity, Chapman often looks as if doesn't strive to do much beyond clog lanes. He has issues when rushing the passer and has trouble squeezing the pocket; his production usually comes from his strength. While he can handle double teams, it is uncommon for him to beat them. Chapman will also move off the line of scrimmage slowly when tired. He will need to work on his overall conditioning to have value in the NFL. </article> </section>

Legit question here. To an extent no one here can answer this because we've never played the position but I'll pose it anyways.

This is why I have a problem with a 315 lb NT. Even if they're as strong as an ox. Yes, they can use that strength and not get pushed back. Basically eat up space. But what happens when a 315 NT is tired vs a 345 lb NT is tired? What happens in the 4th Qtr. The 345 lb NT can take a play off here or there or not to put it better "not have to exude his utmost strength" relying on his pure mass to help him out. 315 lb NT who isn't able to give you 100% because he is gassed is going to get taken for a ride backwards.

Impossible to go all out 100% every down.

Thoughts?

I'm not saying I'm against Chapman. I'm just saying if he comes here, feel free to hit up Oklahoma Joes any time you want big boy.

Chiefnj2
04-19-2012, 01:07 PM
People are letting need obscure their view of how good a player actually is.

Coogs
04-19-2012, 01:13 PM
People are letting need obscure their view of how good a player actually is.

Not sure what you mean? I take it to mean you don't thnik he is very good. He looks pretty damn good to me in the LSU game... and that is on an injured leg.

royr17
04-19-2012, 01:17 PM
Not sure what you mean? I take it to mean you don't thik he is very good. He looks pretty damn good to me in the LSU game... and that is on an injured leg.

Yea he did. The one thing that i saw that i liked the most was his hustle, he never gave up and kept hustling. Those are the type of players that RAC and Pioli like.

Dave Lane
04-19-2012, 01:19 PM
If we took him in the 2nd I'd have no problem with it. But the strengths are not overly impressive when you read them.

Coogs
04-19-2012, 01:20 PM
Chapman was a consistent two-down nose tackle at Alabama. His stats do not stand out, but he was the bowling ball that kept the defense rolling. He can stuff lanes inside and keep linebackers free to make plays. He doesn't flash anything special, but he will be a dependable inside presence on a 3-4 defense and will likely be selected in the second round.

I would not be afraid to take him in the 2nd, as Pittsburgh is probably looking for a replacement at NT for Casey Hampton.

suds79
04-19-2012, 01:22 PM
DT
Alameda Ta'Amu
Washington Pac-12
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/combine/headshots/2532955.jpg

Combine Results

Grade
77.0 ?

5.37 SEC
35 REPS
26.0 INCH
103.0 INCH

6'3" Height
32" Arm Length
348LBS. Weight
9 3/4" Hands

Overview
Ta'amu was a big-boned, powerful inside force for Washington who projects to play the nose tackle position in a 3-4 defense at the next level. He has the ability to hold up linemen and clog lanes to keep linebackers clean, which boosts his value. He has been so effective with the Huskies that there have been some arguably "less-talented" players at Washington who have been extremely productive because of his presence inside on the line.

Strengths
Ta'amu is a forceful player against the run who can quickly get off the ball and into a lineman's face. He can hold two blockers to create lanes for his linebackers. He is big-bodied and understands his role within the defense. He can engulf running backs by using his long, strong arms or by pushing the interior of an offensive line into the backfield.

Weaknesses
Ta'amu is a slow-mover who struggles to rush the passer and chase down ball carriers. He lacks pass-rush moves and doesn't use his feet or hands to get off blocks. He has little value in a 4-3 defense given his shortcomings.

Frosty
04-19-2012, 01:26 PM
From what I understand about Crennel's version of the 3-4, Ta'amu really sounds like the perfect NT for it - a big, strong guy to take up the middle of the offensive line. He doesn't really need pass rushing skills to do that

suds79
04-19-2012, 01:28 PM
Josh Looney interview with Ta'amu from the Senior Bowl.

Seems like Chiefs always draft a fair number of guys from it every year.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/media-center/videos/Senior-Bowl-One-on-One-Alameda-Taamu/41cb34a6-2688-46c9-856a-d4081b26c97d

Chiefnj2
04-19-2012, 01:29 PM
Not sure what you mean? I take it to mean you don't thnik he is very good. He looks pretty damn good to me in the LSU game... and that is on an injured leg.

He's a big lane clogger. He doesn't seem to collapse the pocket very often, and it appears that LSU handled him without double teams most of the time.

If Powe had played some last year and showed even a little bit of promise, I don't think people would be talking about taking him the early/mid 2nd round.

Most big boards don't have him in the top 50.

ChiefsCountry
04-19-2012, 01:46 PM
Next year's nose tackle class is going to be loaded.

ChiefMojo
04-19-2012, 02:22 PM
This is why I love both Chapman and Ta'amu... they do their job of taking up blocks and stuffing the run. We don't need them to be pass rushers considering most passing packages they will be coming out of the game.

This also leads to two points of why we shouldn't take NT at #11. First off most NT's, even the great ones only play two downs. Why commit such a high draft pick to a position you won't have on the field all the time?

Secondly it is the reason I don't want Poe as the pick. Sure he is a freak athletic for his position but what good does that athletic ability do us if we just want him to fill 2-Gaps and just be a primarily run stopper? We just need someone strong at the point of attack that takes up blockers. From watching Poe's vids, he doesn't always do the best of jobs against weaker competition in doing this. Keep the LB's clean/stuff the run and you done your job. We will bring someone in like Bailey or slide over Dorsey for known passing downs.

Also watching Chapman's vids, you noticed double team or single team, he held his ground majority of the time on a bad knee. His job is NOT to get up the field but hold the line of scrimmage to redirect the RB and to let the LB's run free. That is one major misconception people have about interior DL (namely NT's)... you don't want them to far up the field or they get washed out. QB's step up while they pass by or RB's run through their vacated gaps.

Chiefnj2
04-19-2012, 02:53 PM
In passing situations you want the NT to drive OL back so the QB can't step up into a pocket.

Bewbies
04-19-2012, 03:11 PM
In passing situations you want the NT to drive OL back so the QB can't step up into a pocket.

Sub package grasshopper.

Chiefnj2
04-19-2012, 03:13 PM
Sub package grasshopper.

1st and 2nd down it's okay if the QB has a nice pocket to step into?

ChiefMojo
04-19-2012, 05:17 PM
No but if they are in a running down situation you don't want to push the pocket to much or you give easy cut back lanes for RB's. You want a little push but more of controlling the line of scrimmage/2-Gap control.

If it is 2nd and 12, we could bring in a passing sub package. If it is 2nd and 6, we likely keep our run stuffing NT in.

Sorter
04-19-2012, 07:19 PM
Definitely want Chapman in the 3rd. Still think Powe is going to be solid this year though.

DTLB58
04-19-2012, 07:27 PM
You are twelve after all. ROFL

We just need one. If that player is a Alan Page/Tim Krumrie type of player, fine. If he's a big blob that can play as well, fine.

Great. We will get to the SB and he will get dominated or break his leg. :D