PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs/Kuechly Have Not Met


TRR
04-19-2012, 07:12 AM
Courtesy of ArrowheadPride...

I missed this but a few days ago but Dave Skretta of the other AP talked with Boston College LB Luke Kuechly, who is often sent to the Kansas City Chiefs in the various 2012 NFL mock drafts out there.

Of note is that Kuechly tells Skretta that he did not visit the Chiefs. This was a few days ago, so things can change, and maybe he ends up visiting. (It would be classic Pioli to sneak him in only a few days before the draft without anyone knowing.)

At this point, the only known contact between the KC and Kuechly is the NFL Combine.

But it brings up a larger point about the draft -- the Chiefs don't have to bring someone in for a visit to draft them. There's no reason the Chiefs can't draft Kuechly even if he doesn't come to KC, or the Chiefs don't even work him out.

I can see a scenario where the Chiefs draft someone, like Kuechly, without bringing him in for a visit. Maybe not likely, but I can see it. Think about it -- Kuechly has very few question marks. He's considered one of the most high-character guys in the draft. He's a multi-year starter so he has plenty of tape there (and they don't do physical workouts on visits, anyway). He doesn't have medical concerns. What are you going to learn in a meeting with him that you're not already sure about?

I just assume save your visits for players that come with question marks. Players who were hurt last year and you need a medical update. Players who are borderline character concerns. Players who bombed the Wonderlic or said something interesting at the Combine.

On the other hand, the Chiefs three first round picks in the last three years under GM Scott Pioli have all visited Kansas City before the Chiefs drafted them so history says Kuechly better visit KC if he wants to be the 11th pick.

the Talking Can
04-19-2012, 07:27 AM
thank jesus

Frosty
04-19-2012, 08:15 AM
On the other hand, the Chiefs three first round picks in the last three years under GM Scott Pioli have all visited Kansas City before the Chiefs drafted them

Have the Chiefs met with any other 1st round candidates besides Poe, Tannehill and Brockers?

KCUnited
04-19-2012, 08:24 AM
We certainly don't want to tip our hand that we are interested in an ILB with our 11.

jspchief
04-19-2012, 08:29 AM
To me, this says they are happy with Belcher and have no interest in Kuechly.

Coogs
04-19-2012, 08:35 AM
Have the Chiefs met with any other 1st round candidates besides Poe, Tannehill and Brockers?

Not by the thread at the top that has listed visits.

Frosty
04-19-2012, 08:36 AM
Not by the thread at the top that has listed visits.

I looked through that but it hasn't been regularly updated so I wondered if I had missed someone.

Coogs
04-19-2012, 08:38 AM
I looked through that but it hasn't been regularly updated so I wondered if I had missed someone.

I thought we had met with DeCastro too, but I could be mistaken on that one.

suds79
04-19-2012, 08:41 AM
Chiefs trying to keep quiet on this one?

Seems strange that they haven't. But the more noise I hear about the Chiefs and a certain player (say Tannehill) the more I'm convinced that's not the guy.

Fritz88
04-19-2012, 08:41 AM
Didn't meat = we will likely draft him.

Frosty
04-19-2012, 08:47 AM
Chiefs trying to keep quiet on this one?


The article stated that the Chiefs met predraft with each of the guys they drafted the last three years. I'm assuming that is on Pioli but maybe it was on Haley and Crennel doesn't necessarily need to meet with the player? :shrug:

I doubt it, though. I think it will be one of the guys they have met with unless they end up trading down.

Tribal Warfare
04-19-2012, 08:47 AM
Have the Chiefs met with any other 1st round candidates besides Poe, Tannehill and Brockers?

I would be very underwelmed if KC picks Brockers. If he can gain 20 or more pounds to play NT then great, but IMO it would be a lateral move at DE and would indicate that Dorsey won't be pursued by Chiefs for a new contract.

BryanBusby
04-19-2012, 08:55 AM
Didn't meat = we will likely draft him.

Okay, just gotta look through and find the draft prospects Pioli hasn't fucked than.

Coogs
04-19-2012, 08:58 AM
Have the Chiefs met with any other 1st round candidates besides Poe, Tannehill and Brockers?

I could see our pick comming from that list.

I will be shocked if it is Tannehill, but that is who I am pulling for from that list.

Poe... NT is the second biggest hole on the team after Cassel. Not sure about Poe himself, but I understand the pick.

Brockers potential upside is Seymour. Move Dorsey inside, and I am good to go with that as well.

buddha
04-19-2012, 10:08 AM
Brockers looks like a five tech to me. That's as far inside as I see him playing. That's fine because I think Brockers will end up being better than Jackson, but nobody can believe that Brockers is going to become some 330 lbs. guy. He's not built that way, nor is that his best position.

I'm not a Kuechly fan, it's not an area of extreme need like some other positions. Even Kuechly supporters admit that he isn't a hitter and he's anything but physical. I don't understand the fascination by anybody with this guy?

saphojunkie
04-19-2012, 12:01 PM
Brockers looks like a five tech to me. That's as far inside as I see him playing. That's fine because I think Brockers will end up being better than Jackson, but nobody can believe that Brockers is going to become some 330 lbs. guy. He's not built that way, nor is that his best position.

I'm not a Kuechly fan, it's not an area of extreme need like some other positions. Even Kuechly supporters admit that he isn't a hitter and he's anything but physical. I don't understand the fascination by anybody with this guy?

Brockers weighed 322 at the Combine. It's not a stretch to see him gain 8 pounds.

That said, no he isn't a nose tackle - too tall. They'd be bringing him in to replace Dorsey before his contract comes due next year. We'd still need to draft someone like Ta'amu in the second or third. I know there's a lot of Chapman talk, but the dude just has the injury bug, and at 340 pounds, that bug doesn't goo away.

Coogs
04-19-2012, 12:50 PM
Brockers weighed 322 at the Combine. It's not a stretch to see him gain 8 pounds.

That said, no he isn't a nose tackle - too tall. They'd be bringing him in to replace Dorsey before his contract comes due next year. We'd still need to draft someone like Ta'amu in the second or third. I know there's a lot of Chapman talk, but the dude just has the injury bug, and at 340 pounds, that bug doesn't goo away.

So you wouldn't draft Eric Berry then either... knowing now that he is injury prone.

royr17
04-19-2012, 02:25 PM
Well on nfldraftcountdown Brockers compares to Ty Warren and Kuelechy compares to Keith Brooking.

Detoxing
04-19-2012, 03:15 PM
So you wouldn't draft Eric Berry then either... knowing now that he is injury prone.

Yeah....since when does one injury = the injury bug?

Frosty
04-19-2012, 03:37 PM
Kuechly compares to Keith Brooking.

I think that is a really good comparison. Brooking always had a ton of tackles but not all that many "big plays". I think Kuechly will be the same type of player.

whoman69
04-19-2012, 03:38 PM
Brockers weighed 322 at the Combine. It's not a stretch to see him gain 8 pounds.

That said, no he isn't a nose tackle - too tall. They'd be bringing him in to replace Dorsey before his contract comes due next year. We'd still need to draft someone like Ta'amu in the second or third. I know there's a lot of Chapman talk, but the dude just has the injury bug, and at 340 pounds, that bug doesn't goo away.

If he's trying to get up that high, he's probably trying to be an tackle in a 4/3. I think the Chiefs interest in him would be as a five technique, and I would have to guess that would be to replace Dorsey and bring more to the game when the opposition passes. He would probably have to trim down a bit to be outside in a 3/4.

I wouldn't say that Champman is injury prone, just chose to play through an injury. At 340, he could probably trim up a bit and that might lessen any injury issues. 325 is the max he should be at.

Chiefnj2
04-19-2012, 04:01 PM
Brockers weighed 322 at the Combine. It's not a stretch to see him gain 8 pounds.

That said, no he isn't a nose tackle - too tall.

How tall was Ted Washington?

ROYC75
04-19-2012, 04:31 PM
How tall was Ted Washington?

6-5.

KCDC
04-19-2012, 06:08 PM
I'd rather of had Keuchly at 11 than Brockers. Looks like Brockers is the pick. *sigh*

The only thing I can hope for now is that we trade down. If we have to have Brockers, let's get him at #22 or so. He'll be available., just like TJ would have been available at #11 when we burned #3 on him.

BossChief
04-19-2012, 06:41 PM
The private workouts and visits are over as of today iirc.

The players are allowed this whole week to get ready for the draft.

I have faith that Pioli won't take Decastro or Kuechly.

Hopefully, Tannehill really impressed us during his interviews and private workout for us.

If not, I think Barron or Mercilus is the pick.

Mr. Laz
04-19-2012, 06:43 PM
To me, this says they are happy with Belcher and have no interest in Kuechly.
it could just as easily mean they don't want anyone jumping in front of them and grabbing a player they want.

BossChief
04-19-2012, 06:50 PM
it could just as easily mean they don't want anyone jumping in front of them and grabbing a player they want.

ROFL

who would trade into the top ten for Kuechly or a guard?

Seriously, if a GM did that...the owner should fire him on the spot and make the rest of that years picks for him.

O.city
04-19-2012, 06:53 PM
With all the pro days and such, I don't think bringing someone in is necessarily a must. I'd say they only bring in guys that they don't feel like they know enough about.

Mr. Laz
04-19-2012, 07:04 PM
ROFL

who would trade into the top ten for Kuechly or a guard?

Seriously, if a GM did that...the owner should fire him on the spot and make the rest of that years picks for him.
Did i say it had to be from the 2nd round or something

example: If Seattle wants Kuechly they could jump up 2 spots and grab him IF they know whether we him or not.

Sorter
04-19-2012, 07:09 PM
I'm thinking Brockers is our pick.

KCDC
04-19-2012, 07:13 PM
Did i say it had to be from the 2nd round or something

example: If Seattle wants Kuechly they could jump up 2 spots and grab him IF they know whether we him or not.

I hope you're right Laz. I do worry about Seattle. They need Keuchly bad. I could see them move up in front of us. But I worry that Pioli is thinking like some CPers that Belcher is decent, so it is better to take a young, highly hyped,likely mediocre DE to replace a less young, highly hyped, mediocre DE next year. Yeah, I can hardly contain my enthusiasm. That will make the difference in shutting down Manning this year. Heaven forbid we get a linebacker that can cover a TE.

Bewbies
04-19-2012, 07:16 PM
Because Curry didn't burn Seattle's ass bad enough last time. LMAO

KCDC
04-19-2012, 07:25 PM
Curry's contract burned them. They lost their MLB and are weak there.

If getting burned makes you gunshy, then I would like to point you to the Chiefs. We got burned on Ryan Sims; were disappointed with Dorsey; and reached for TJ. So, now we take another DL? Yep. Will Seattle take Keuchly if he's available, yep. Have the weight of the draft "experts" mocked anyone else to Seattle lately? Nope.

Mr. Laz
04-19-2012, 07:29 PM
I hope you're right Laz. I do worry about Seattle. They need Keuchly bad. I could see them move up in front of us. But I worry that Pioli is thinking like some CPers that Belcher is decent, so it is better to take a young, highly hyped,likely mediocre DE to replace a less young, highly hyped, mediocre DE next year. Yeah, I can hardly contain my enthusiasm. That will make the difference in shutting down Manning this year. Heaven forbid we get a linebacker that can cover a TE.
i think Pioli is hoping to trade down 10 spots because the talent will be very similar at 21 as it is 11.

Decastro,Barron and Kuechly are the best at their positions but those positions are lower rated positions.

Kuechly did have a Donnie Edwards=ish college career and i'm not sure that's what we need. Decastro is a stud and could make a difference in our running game but taking a guard that high really hurts.

Barron is a stud AND and i don't have Lewis rated as high as some people round here so i think Barron could fill a need for us. But once again taking a SS that high kinda sucks.

The problem is there aren't really any studs to be taken at that slot. After Luck,RGIII,Blackmon,Kalil,Richardson,Claiborne there are a bunch of guys all around similar rating.

Melvin Ingram could be a beast in the NFL imo but for us he would probably be an OLB. What about Houston? The same for Mercilus.

We trade down to 20 and then still probably get one of the guys i just listed or a number of other guys that have value then.

Mr. Laz
04-19-2012, 07:31 PM
Because Curry didn't burn Seattle's ass bad enough last time. LMAO
Seattle was just an example, the team is irrelevant. The point is IF the chiefs do really like him they could not want other people aware of that fact.

KCDC
04-19-2012, 07:33 PM
I'm fine with a trade down, but think the talent level drops again after #22 or so. Give me an extra second round pick and take Konz at the bottom of the first, or Barron, or the guys you mention.

TRR
04-19-2012, 09:15 PM
I don't understand the love for drafting another DE or a Safety in round one. Lewis has really come into his own and Berry will be back healthy. KC needs depth at safety but not at #11. Similiar to DE...Jackson and Dorsey are entrenched and Bailey is waiting in the wings.

No thank you to either.
Posted via Mobile Device

O.city
04-19-2012, 09:16 PM
I'm coming around to Barron.



Whats better than one Berry in the backfield? Two.

Mecca
04-19-2012, 09:33 PM
I don't understand the love for drafting another DE or a Safety in round one. Lewis has really come into his own and Berry will be back healthy. KC needs depth at safety but not at #11. Similiar to DE...Jackson and Dorsey are entrenched and Bailey is waiting in the wings.

No thank you to either.
Posted via Mobile Device

Lewis had shoulder surgery, this teams insistence on playing a ton of 3 safety..and the desire to have Berry be the roaming centerfielder instead of in the box.

O.city
04-19-2012, 09:35 PM
I'm actually thinking Boss's eval on this might be right.


I think Barron might end up being the pick.

Mecca
04-19-2012, 09:37 PM
1.DeCastro
2.Kuechly
3.Barron
4.Hightower

I think it's one of those 4..if it's DeCastro or Hightower if's after a move down especially Hightower.

O.city
04-19-2012, 09:39 PM
Starting to really want Barron.

TRR
04-19-2012, 09:46 PM
Lewis had shoulder surgery, this teams insistence on playing a ton of 3 safety..and the desire to have Berry be the roaming centerfielder instead of in the box.

Disagree. KC doesn't play nearly as much three safety sets as this board makes it seem. I'm also not worried about either injuries to take a safety in round one....again.
Posted via Mobile Device

O.city
04-19-2012, 09:47 PM
Stats don't lie bro. They were in it damn near 70 percent of the defensive snaps last eyar.

Mecca
04-19-2012, 09:48 PM
Disagree. KC doesn't play nearly as much three safety sets as this board makes it seem. I'm also not worried about either injuries to take a safety in round one....again.
Posted via Mobile Device

Just sayin that's why, I'd probably draft Kuechly if it was me.

TRR
04-19-2012, 09:49 PM
Stats don't lie bro. They were in it damn near 70 percent of the defensive snaps last eyar.

Link?

Also they weren't insistent on playing three safeties....they were forced to do so with Berry being out all year and CB's being dinged.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mecca
04-19-2012, 09:50 PM
Link?

Also they weren't insistent on playing three safeties....they were forced to do so with Berry being out all year and CB's being dinged.
Posted via Mobile Device

Even the year before when Berry was fine, Jon McGraw saw a ton of time on the field as a non starter.

O.city
04-19-2012, 09:55 PM
We need another safety.


Harrison Smith or the kid from the U whose name escapes me would be fine in round 2 for me. Taylor I think



Trade back, take Konz. Smith and Perry in the second, Chapman in the third.

Mecca
04-19-2012, 09:56 PM
I'm not a fan of Harrison Smith...

Mecca
04-19-2012, 09:57 PM
We need another safety.


Harrison Smith or the kid from the U whose name escapes me would be fine in round 2 for me. Taylor I think



Trade back, take Konz. Smith and Perry in the second, Chapman in the third.

Brandon Taylor is from LSU.

O.city
04-19-2012, 09:58 PM
Yeah, Taylor.


Like him alot, especially in the second round.


Curious what you think about Konz?

Mecca
04-19-2012, 10:00 PM
Yeah, Taylor.


Like him alot, especially in the second round.


Curious what you think about Konz?

I don't like his durability issues.

O.city
04-19-2012, 10:04 PM
He tore up an ankle this year didn't he?

Urc Burry
04-19-2012, 10:11 PM
A lot of the reason we played 3 safeties a lot the last couple years is because Belcher is bad in coverage. John McGraw is basically another linebacker in that set. Which is one of the reasons why I can see us going Kuechly

BossChief
04-19-2012, 10:12 PM
I'll tell you one thing...

I wouldn't want to be a wide out or back playing against all the hard hitters we have on d...especially if we add Barron.

Opposing wide receivers would drop a lot of passes due to "footsteps"

I don't know a whole lot about Routt... Is he a good hitter?

We may not have a franchise quarterback, but we would have a defense that would be fun to watch.

Mr. Laz
04-19-2012, 10:14 PM
A lot of the reason we played 3 safeties a lot the last couple years is because Belcher is bad in coverage. John McGraw is basically another linebacker in that set. Which is one of the reasons why I can see us going Kuechly
and because Lewis can't cover

milkman
04-19-2012, 10:15 PM
A lot of the reason we played 3 safeties a lot the last couple years is because Belcher is bad in coverage. John McGraw is basically another linebacker in that set. Which is one of the reasons why I can see us going Kuechly

There isn't a single LB that can cover the great TEs in the NFL, and Kuechly is not going to be the guy who suddenly is that guy.

Mecca
04-19-2012, 10:16 PM
Kuechly is basically a more athletic Sean Lee, so if you like Sean Lee you like him if not you don't.

milkman
04-19-2012, 10:25 PM
Kuechly is basically a more athletic Sean Lee, so if you like Sean Lee you like him if not you don't.

You are not fully grasping the argument.

If DJ were still playing at the level he was playing at 3 years ago, or we were still trying to utilizie DeMorrio Williams in that spot, I'd be all over Luke Kuechly.

BossChief
04-19-2012, 10:28 PM
Belcher is still improving and has shown big improvement year to year.

I heard Romeo saying that he gets fooled a bit against play action and it causes him to not get proper depth in his drops but that he has improved a lot in diagnosing play action so that doesn't happen.

The kid has started two years and didn't have a full offseason in-between the two after coming from a small school and converting from defensive end.

Second leading tackler to DJ.

I'm not at all comfortable taking him totally off the field to put two coverage linebackers in the middle of our defense when we don't have great play from the nose.

Mecca
04-19-2012, 10:33 PM
Belcher is still improving and has shown big improvement year to year.

I heard Romeo saying that he gets fooled a bit against play action and it causes him to not get proper depth in his drops but that he has improved a lot in diagnosing play action so that doesn't happen.

The kid has started two years and didn't have a full offseason in-between the two after coming from a small school and converting from defensive end.

Second leading tackler to DJ.

I'm not at all comfortable taking him totally off the field to put two coverage linebackers in the middle of our defense when we don't have great play from the nose.

More comfortable with a guard?

jspchief
04-19-2012, 10:41 PM
A lot of the reason we played 3 safeties a lot the last couple years is because Belcher is bad in coverage. John McGraw is basically another linebacker in that set. Which is one of the reasons why I can see us going Kuechly

Agree

BossChief
04-19-2012, 10:51 PM
If it's me picking and I'm stuck at 11, my pick is Barron.

I'd think long and hard about taking Mercilus, but would end up taking Barron.

The fact that they haven't re-signed Jon McGraw tells me they are looking to upgrade at safety and if they liked Berry at 5, they will like Barron at 11.

Get a good guard or center in the second and move up a little to get Chapman in the late second/early third and let's roll.

Mecca
04-19-2012, 10:58 PM
If it's me picking and I'm stuck at 11, my pick is Barron.

I'd think long and hard about taking Mercilus, but would end up taking Barron.

The fact that they haven't re-signed Jon McGraw tells me they are looking to upgrade at safety and if they liked Berry at 5, they will like Barron at 11.

Get a good guard or center in the second and move up a little to get Chapman in the late second/early third and let's roll.

I could see that, this is such an awful safety year you aren't gonna upgrade it unless you take Barron.

To me the best trade off is that it lets Berry move to the ballhawk role and out of the box role would could really get a ton more turnovers.

Chief Roundup
04-19-2012, 11:10 PM
Didn't meat = we will likely draft him.

Pioli has never drafted a player with a first round pick that he has not had in for a meeting.

BossChief
04-20-2012, 12:17 AM
I could see that, this is such an awful safety year you aren't gonna upgrade it unless you take Barron.

To me the best trade off is that it lets Berry move to the ballhawk role and out of the box role would could really get a ton more turnovers.

Exactly. Which is better for Berry post injury as well.

It also upgrades one of the most important parts of a good defense.

Team speed.

Dmello12
04-20-2012, 12:38 AM
Liking the Barron talk!! especially if we could find someone and trade back a few spots, maybe pick up another second. take Ta'amu at 44 then a gaurd like Osmele if hes available if not i think this draft is pretty deep at gaurd. Or if Mike Adams slides for celebrating 4/20 id snatch him here! who knows what the front office it thinking though

Direckshun
04-20-2012, 12:52 AM
Gun to my head, I take Mercilus. But I put so much emphasis on front seven and QB I'm a retarded guy to listen to.

Mercilus
Cox

Ingram
Barron
Kirkpatrick

DeCastro

Brockers
Kuechly

Tannehill

Still
Wright
Gilmore

Poe

Hightower


Upshaw

beach tribe
04-20-2012, 01:00 AM
I believe this team thinks very highly, of "Burps", and rightfully so.
I think he's just gonna get better. I like Keuchly but don't see us taking him with that pick.

listopencil
04-20-2012, 10:49 AM
What happened to Hightower? I've seen him going very low in the first. I thought he was more like a mid-first pick.

Fat Elvis
04-20-2012, 10:59 AM
Liking the Barron talk!! especially if we could find someone and trade back a few spots, maybe pick up another second. take Ta'amu at 44 then a gaurd like Osmele if hes available if not i think this draft is pretty deep at gaurd. Or if Mike Adams slides for celebrating 4/20 id snatch him here! who knows what the front office it thinking though

If we don't take Barron at 11, Dallas will take him with their pick at 14.

ChiefMojo
04-20-2012, 11:09 AM
Most people have Hightower in the bottom half of the 1st. Very good thumper but not that good in pass coverage, suspect lateral movement and durability questions.

Chiefnj2
04-20-2012, 11:27 AM
RobRang And, oh by the way, Kuechly typically avoids blockers rather than taking them on, making him better fit in 4-3. Rushing QB not his game. 12 hours ago reply retweet favorite
RobRang profile

RobRang Don't understand all of the KC-Kuechly talk. LBs Hali, Johnson = '11 Pro Bowlers. OLB Houston = '11 2nd rd pick. Belcher = 2nd rd tender. 12 hours ago reply retweet favorite

Mr. Laz
04-20-2012, 11:52 AM
Pioli has never drafted a player with a first round pick that he has not had in for a meeting.

link?

Direckshun
04-20-2012, 12:09 PM
link?

Objective fact.

TJax in 2009
Berry in 2010
Baldwin in 2011

Mr. Laz
04-20-2012, 12:19 PM
Objective fact.

TJax in 2009
Berry in 2010
Baldwin in 2011
keep going ... what about his Patriots' picks?

Chiefshrink
04-20-2012, 04:06 PM
What about Shea McCellin from BSU. Casserly said he is the ideal 3/4 L-backer that can do it all.

I say Pioli trades down in the 20's and drafts this kid. Going out on a limb I know but this kid's stock is really rising and he is now being talked about in the bottom of the 1st rd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFVe8dxfok

buddha
04-20-2012, 04:24 PM
MLBers generally aren't good in coverage, but they have to be great in run support. Kuechly is neither fish nor foul to me. He is decent in pass coverage (based on the film I've seen...I realize some of the pundits think he is great...haven't seen it), but he's not aggressive in the box and catches tackles. On passing downs, you're bringing in nickles or another safety any way.

If the argument is then...when are passing downs? The value of the MLBer is diminished further, and it has been for the most part.

BossChief
04-20-2012, 04:32 PM
Our only shot at getting good value in a trade down is if Trent Richardson or Ryan Tannehill fall to us and we dont want to select them because we feel we can upgrade more via trade down.

I don't think there is a shot in hell either falls to us so it's almost pointless to talk about a trade down.

We have two safeties coming off injury and that's it.

One of them is physically limited (Lewis lacks speed) and with Peyton, Palmer and Rivers consisting of 38% of our schedule, it would be wise to add as many defensive difference makers as possible.

Romeo knows full well how much we utilize 3 safety sets, as does Pioli. Them not re-signing Jon McGraw is a sign that they want to upgrade there and I really think Barron would get us the most impact with our first rounder out of the pool of guys that should be available to us when we pick.

xztop12
04-20-2012, 04:48 PM
MLBers generally aren't good in coverage, but they have to be great in run support. Kuechly is neither fish nor foul to me. He is decent in pass coverage (based on the film I've seen...I realize some of the pundits think he is great...haven't seen it), but he's not aggressive in the box and catches tackles. On passing downs, you're bringing in nickles or another safety any way.

If the argument is then...when are passing downs? The value of the MLBer is diminished further, and it has been for the most part.

I agree with this. Add in the fact that Hightower is cheaper and played in a D closer to ours. His ACL didn't appear to bother him as he looked his best this year

veist
04-20-2012, 05:01 PM
Hey look Rob Rang says the same thing about Kuechly:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>And, oh by the way, Kuechly typically avoids blockers rather than taking them on, making him better fit in 4-3. Rushing QB not his game.</p>&mdash; Rob Rang (@RobRang) <a href="https://twitter.com/RobRang/status/193187267114831873" data-datetime="2012-04-20T04:00:08+00:00">April 20, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

xztop12
04-20-2012, 05:07 PM
the reason that hightower is a really attractive prospect is because I think he has potential to pass-rush. he dominated in the Bowl game vs LSU

BryanBusby
04-20-2012, 07:15 PM
keep going ... what about his Patriots' picks?

That really doesn't say a whole lot, as Belichick was pulling the trigger.

Jawshco
04-20-2012, 09:28 PM
The Chiefs haven't met any of the draft prospects that are in my top 3 list: DeCastro, Kuechly & Barron. If we go by potential 1st round picks that could land at 11 that they have met, you get: Poe, Tannehill and Brockers. The only one from those three I'd be okay with is Tannehill. I think Ta'amu will have a better NFL career than Poe, and can be had in rd 2. I just don't see Brockers fitting anywhere on our D.

I like a balanced draft approach where you look at the top few BPA, and you chose the one that brings the biggest upgrade to your team. In other words, which of these players brings the biggest upgrade :

DeCastro -> Lilja
Kuechly -> Belcher
Barron -> Lewis
Tannehill -> Cassel
Konz-> Hudson (also saw Lilja listed as C on the official roster)

For me, I see why people want Kuechly with the above. Belcher is probably the worst player on that list. He's terrible at covering TE, but he's a pretty good runstuffer- pretty much the opposite of Kuechly. I could see us using both Kuechly and Belcher in a rotation to maximize their strengths. Also, at 25 yrs of age, Belcher could still get better. That said - is this where we want our first round pick?

A good case could be made for Drafting DeCastro. He's an upgrade over the aging Lilja for sure, and have our O-line looking pretty great. Barron is also tempting, but Kendrick Lewis is still young, and I pretty talented. Much like Brockers- I can't see us drafting Barron to build depth. We were 6th in the league last year against the Pass without Berry. I don't see us taking a Safety that high. We were only 26th against the Rush, but I'm not sure 1st rounder (other than Hightower) can help us there.

The most glaring weak stat for us last year was 27th in passing and 31st in points. Admittedly, that stat may be inflated due to the amount of Palko we saw last year, but I'm fine rolling the dice on Tannehill, if be drops to us. DeCastro also makes sense for the same reason. Trading back, and grabbing someone like Hightower or Konz probably makes the most sense of all.

Nightfyre
04-20-2012, 09:33 PM
How in the hell is Brockers not tailor-made for our defense?

BossChief
04-20-2012, 10:48 PM
Brockers gives you exactly what Dorsey does..he is just built differently. He is built like "country strong" and looks the part more so than Dorsey...but I truly don't see the upgrade.

Stout against the run, but not much pass rush.

Same as Dorsey...NOT SEYMOUR.

Seymour was a 5-tech that could also give you 6-8 sacks per year. Brockers doesn't seem to have that kind of skill set, but I could be wrong.

Barron just makes too much sense from too many angles to be overlooked, but I doubt we draft him...if we were, we probably would have worked him out.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2012, 11:06 PM
That really doesn't say a whole lot, as Belichick was pulling the trigger.
We don't even know that either

but there is a big difference between saying "pioli had never drafted a 1st round pick he hasn't has a visit with" and "Pioli has had his last 3 1st rounders in for a visit"

just sayin'

buddha
04-21-2012, 01:01 AM
If people think that DeCastro is a dumb pick at 11, you will certainly have to agree that Kuechly is an even dumber pick there. At least DeCastro is an every down, stalwart type player. Kuechly is NOT an every down player based on the film I've watched. Guys, he's not good enough to play against the run in a physical way required by NFL standards. LBers who can't blow up ball carriers at least once in awhile are as useless as tits on male dog. I want a dominator at MLB, or stick with Belcher.

jspchief
04-21-2012, 08:51 AM
If people think that DeCastro is a dumb pick at 11, you will certainly have to agree that Kuechly is an even dumber pick there. At least DeCastro is an every down, stalwart type player. Kuechly is NOT an every down player based on the film I've watched. Guys, he's not good enough to play against the run in a physical way required by NFL standards. LBers who can't blow up ball carriers at least once in awhile are as useless as tits on male dog. I want a dominator at MLB, or stick with Belcher.

Lol. Pretty much every scouting report on him says part of his value is he is a 3 down LB.

Nightfyre
04-21-2012, 11:35 AM
Brockers gives you exactly what Dorsey does..he is just built differently. He is built like "country strong" and looks the part more so than Dorsey...but I truly don't see the upgrade.

Stout against the run, but not much pass rush.

Same as Dorsey...NOT SEYMOUR.

Seymour was a 5-tech that could also give you 6-8 sacks per year. Brockers doesn't seem to have that kind of skill set, but I could be wrong.

Barron just makes too much sense from too many angles to be overlooked, but I doubt we draft him...if we were, we probably would have worked him out.
Retardation.

philfree
04-21-2012, 11:40 AM
Lol. Pretty much every scouting report on him says part of his value is he is a 3 down LB.

I think that's more so if he plays in a 4-3.

SNR
04-21-2012, 12:29 PM
I hope you're right Laz. I do worry about Seattle. They need Keuchly bad. I could see them move up in front of us. But I worry that Pioli is thinking like some CPers that Belcher is decent, so it is better to take a young, highly hyped,likely mediocre DE to replace a less young, highly hyped, mediocre DE next year. Yeah, I can hardly contain my enthusiasm. That will make the difference in shutting down Manning this year. Heaven forbid we get a linebacker that can cover a TE.When we face the monster TEs like Jimmy Graham this year, Kuechly ain't gonna do jack shit. No team can cover Graham conventionally with just one player; in that situation Kuechly is going to be roaming around the line of scrimmage or covering the screen to Sproles. He will get his dick ripped off if he tries to cover Graham.

melbar
04-21-2012, 12:49 PM
When we face the monster TEs like Jimmy Graham this year, Kuechly ain't gonna do jack shit. No team can cover Graham conventionally with just one player; in that situation Kuechly is going to be roaming around the line of scrimmage or covering the screen to Sproles. He will get his dick ripped off if he tries to cover Graham.

Again, every scouting report I've seen says he can easily cover most TE's and that is one of his strengths. With his speed and some coaching up he improves quite a bit over Belcher.

Buckweath
04-21-2012, 02:13 PM
You'll always see people knocking prospects and saying comments that don`t really make sense, as for example Kuechly is not an everydown player, but at the end of the day, I`m pretty sure most NFL scouts rate Kuechly in the same class as Mayo, Willis, Urlacher, D. Johnson as prospects.

Size, decent speed, great instincts, great tackler, great character, what's not to like really?

I personnally wouldn`t draft him because I consider Belcher to be good enough for this defense and think that our defense needs much more help on the Dline to become possibly an elite defense, if it is not already, but if we didn`t have D. Johnson, Kuehcly would be a fantastic pick.

SNR
04-21-2012, 02:33 PM
Again, every scouting report I've seen says he can easily cover most TE's and that is one of his strengths. With his speed and some coaching up he improves quite a bit over Belcher.He improves quite a bit over Belcher in all the things you want out of that linebacker on 3rd down. On 1st and 2nd down, though? Give me Belcher over Kuechly.

Not saying Kuechly can't blow up blockers on rush downs. I've just never seen him do it.

veist
04-21-2012, 03:12 PM
He improves quite a bit over Belcher in all the things you want out of that linebacker on 3rd down. On 1st and 2nd down, though? Give me Belcher over Kuechly.

Not saying Kuechly can't blow up blockers on rush downs. I've just never seen him do it.

You haven't seen him do it because he hasn't done it, he runs around blockers. Which is fine, in a position that he isn't going to play on our defense.

SNR
04-21-2012, 03:14 PM
You haven't seen him do it because he hasn't done it, he runs around blockers.That's what I was getting at.

I know, I know... Derrick Johnson did the same thing in college. Whatever. It will take time for Kuechly to craft his form and work on that. I'd rather have an extra safety on the field so Berry and a helper can cover the TE rather than a linebacker in that time.

BossChief
04-21-2012, 03:55 PM
Retardation.

Seymour averaged 5 sacks per year as a 5 technique in the NFL.

Brockers has 2 sacks in two years as an end/dt in college.

I think Bailey and Jackson are a damn good set of ends with Gordon as quality depth...and that's after taking Dorsey out of the equation.

Is Brockers even gonna be better than Bailey...or Jackson for that matter.

Von Dumbass
04-21-2012, 05:56 PM
Loved Kuehly on film. Far more athletic than given credit for. Played with eyes better than any LB I've seen. Great play recognition.

https://twitter.com/#!/gregcosell/status/193827901811081216

Von Dumbass
04-21-2012, 06:10 PM
Misconception about LB in NFL. Very few take on blocks in run game. Not critical attribute anymore. One of thhings just tossed around.

https://twitter.com/#!/gregcosell/status/193838467745198081

Nightfyre
04-21-2012, 07:51 PM
Seymour averaged 5 sacks per year as a 5 technique in the NFL.

Brockers has 2 sacks in two years as an end/dt in college.

I think Bailey and Jackson are a damn good set of ends with Gordon as quality depth...and that's after taking Dorsey out of the equation.

Is Brockers even gonna be better than Bailey...or Jackson for that matter.

As a red-shirt freshman and sophomore. Brockers is prototype and then some for a five tech. He already demonstrates good presence of mind, the ability to defeat and push double and triple teams, and the ability to close down throwing lanes at SEC competition as a red-shirt SOPHOMORE.

He still has some physical development ahead of him and some technique refinement, but he will be a monster.

veist
04-21-2012, 08:34 PM
That's what I was getting at.

I know, I know... Derrick Johnson did the same thing in college. Whatever. It will take time for Kuechly to craft his form and work on that. I'd rather have an extra safety on the field so Berry and a helper can cover the TE rather than a linebacker in that time.

Unless we change pretty drastically schematically playing next to DJ its going to be something he's going to be asked to do regularly, he's also going to see OG's lined up uncovered. Because that is what we do with Belcher.

whoman69
04-21-2012, 08:44 PM
He improves quite a bit over Belcher in all the things you want out of that linebacker on 3rd down. On 1st and 2nd down, though? Give me Belcher over Kuechly.

Not saying Kuechly can't blow up blockers on rush downs. I've just never seen him do it.

Belcher is not even in there on 3rd down unless its short yardage. He was a liability on 1st and 2nd down when its a pass play.

Bump
04-21-2012, 10:43 PM
I wouldn't be upset with Kuechly, sounds like a smart LB and can read plays, need that.

ChiefMojo
04-22-2012, 10:41 AM
Sure Kuechly didn't take on blockers as much as some like but then again he wasn't asked to at Boston College. People seems to forget that or choose to ignore that factor.

milkman
04-22-2012, 10:45 AM
Sure Kuechly didn't take on blockers as much as some like but then again he wasn't asked to at Boston College. People seems to forget that or choose to ignore that factor.

No we haven't ignored it.

But the fact is, he hasn't done it for whatever reason, and you can not make the claim that he can simply because you believe he can.

That was exactly the same type of argument that we had about Aaron Curry.

He wasn't asked to rush the passer, but all the Curry supporters claimed that he could even though they had no evidence on the field to support that.

How'd that work out?

veist
04-22-2012, 12:41 PM
Sure Kuechly didn't take on blockers as much as some like but then again he wasn't asked to at Boston College. People seems to forget that or choose to ignore that factor.

He didn't take on blockers, he went around them. There isn't anything wrong with that as a method for defeating a block but nowhere has he shown a real willingness to take on a block in his film either. The most negative things I've seen written about him are how he has a tendency to get washed out by longer blockers getting on him. This is a very real concern when you go watch how Belcher is used and how the Chiefs D lines up because those things are things that are going to happen to him playing in Belcher's position. Bottom line is, imo, if the Chiefs are going to draft an ILB in the first round it'll be Hightower.

ChiefMojo
04-22-2012, 06:31 PM
Well if you just want a thumper that plays two downs... don't get a ILB until the 3rd like Nigel Bradham or just stick with what you have in Belcher.

BossChief
04-22-2012, 07:00 PM
If we want to improve our pass defense, draft Barron and upgrade multiple positions with the pick.

You don't draft a non pass rushing linebacker to improve your coverage.

melbar
04-22-2012, 10:28 PM
Sure Kuechly didn't take on blockers as much as some like but then again he wasn't asked to at Boston College. People seems to forget that or choose to ignore that factor.

He had no support and was asked to make tackles. More than anyone in CFB. He was given free reign to make plays because he didnt have anyone else to clean up after him.

veist
04-22-2012, 11:47 PM
He had no support and was asked to make tackles. More than anyone in CFB. He was given free reign to make plays because he didnt have anyone else to clean up after him.

Stop making bullshit excuses for why he defeats blocks by going around them. It has nothing to do with how shitty the team was last year because he's got multiple years of film of him doing it. That's how he plays, there's nothing wrong with that in general but it does make him a poor fit for the Chiefs.

buddha
04-23-2012, 01:18 PM
Misconception about LB in NFL. Very few take on blocks in run game. Not critical attribute anymore. One of thhings just tossed around.

https://twitter.com/#!/gregcosell/status/193838467745198081

Moronic.

buddha
04-23-2012, 01:23 PM
Sure Kuechly didn't take on blockers as much as some like but then again he wasn't asked to at Boston College. People seems to forget that or choose to ignore that factor.

Mojo...how in the hell would you know this? You don't. I've never heard of a defense that didn't require a LINEBACKER to be able to take on and defeat a block when they need to. I've never heard of people so sold on a LB who catches tackles and doesn't blow ball carriers up...even once in awhile. Some of you guys don't have the ability to form your own damn thoughts. Stop reading the "scouting reports" and watch his highlights with your own eyes. Use the brain God gave you and stop parroting what you hear or read. Let somebody else make this mistake.

For those who act like run defense isn't important in "today's football," think again. If nobody fears your MLB, they will run on you all day long, especially when we have problems at NG. Yes...KC needs a better MLB. So let's get one...it just so happens that Kuechly ain't that guy.

Coogs
04-27-2012, 12:11 PM
Have the Chiefs met with any other 1st round candidates besides Poe, Tannehill and Brockers?

Tannehill was gone.

Poe it was.

Frosty
04-27-2012, 12:31 PM
Tannehill was gone.

Poe it was.

I guess the streak stays alive.