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O.city
04-27-2012, 02:47 PM
I figured with all the bitching going on we could have a thread like this.


Knowing the way the picks before us fell, who would you rather have had with our pick?


No trading down, we have no idea where we would have went.


At 11, what pick would have made you not bitch.


I'm not arguing for the pick. Not a huge fan of it.


However, it was basically the only pick that brought us a guy that would start at a position of need. Only other guy who would have been a day 1 starter was Decastro.

sedated
04-27-2012, 02:48 PM
Pretty much anyone from 12-24.

Reaper16
04-27-2012, 02:50 PM
Ingram, Brockers. Hell, even Mercilus.

O.city
04-27-2012, 02:51 PM
If you take Ingram or Mercilus, you taking Houston off the field? Tamba?

suds79
04-27-2012, 02:52 PM
I honestly can't fault them for addressing our biggest need and selecting one of the very few individuals on the planet big enough & strong enough to play NT in the NFL.

Ingram would have been okay but outside of that who?

DeCastro? He's just a Guard and they all slid for a reason.

Brockers? Great. Another DE which is much, much less important than NT in a 3-4.

O.city
04-27-2012, 02:53 PM
IMO, Brockers has a very high upside and could have very well been the pick.

Coogs
04-27-2012, 02:58 PM
I honestly can't fault them for addressing our biggest need and selecting one of the very few individuals on the planet big enough & strong enough to play NT in the NFL.

Same here. I know you said no trades, but Tannehill is going to be on my watch list. I hope sitting in spot #11... which is cheaper... is/was not a factor in our decision not to move up. I don't want to become the Royals and be penny pinchers. I also am going to keep an eye on Chapman, and who winds up being the better NT over the long haul. Dude from Washington too. But for now I am happy we addressed our 2nd biggest need.

SNR
04-27-2012, 03:07 PM
Nobody except Tannehill was going to make me exactly giddy.

I would have been content and understanding if they had taken Brockers, Ingram, Mercilus, or even DeCastro. I wouldn't have been pissed. Just would have taken my lumps and moved onto the later rounds.

Trade down would have been optimal, obviously. I would have been curious to see those two offers Pioli got from other teams.

HemiEd
04-27-2012, 03:09 PM
Good thread IMO. Maybe Fletcher Cox? We shall see soon enough.

KurtCobain
04-27-2012, 03:09 PM
I would've traded back and took Weeden.

SNR
04-27-2012, 03:10 PM
Good thread IMO. Maybe Fletcher Cox? We shall see soon enough.Cox would have to make the same adjustment as Glenn Dorsey did. Waste of a talent.

Extra Point
04-27-2012, 03:11 PM
IF I knew DeCastro would fall so far down, I WOULD have traded down. BUT, that's BS, because I had to grab POE.

POE SHOULD have gone to the Ravens.

O.city
04-27-2012, 03:11 PM
Yeah Cox was no good for us.




I just feel that with our pick, there wasn't another guy that would or could have the impact that Poe could bring.

Dicky McElephant
04-27-2012, 03:12 PM
Ingram or Mercilus.

HemiEd
04-27-2012, 03:14 PM
Cox would have to make the same adjustment as Glenn Dorsey did. Waste of a talent.

Yeah, agreed, thus I think they took the best option on the board for the team.

Frosty
04-27-2012, 03:14 PM
Trade down would have been optimal, obviously. I would have been curious to see those two offers Pioli got from other teams.

Since they were worried about losing Poe if they traded back, I'm guessing that it was behind the Eagles and probably the Chargers, so around 19 or 20. At that point, they could have taken Jones, Mercilus, Hightower or DeCastro and still picked up Ta'amu or Chapman with the new picks or original 2nd.

HoneyBadger
04-27-2012, 03:14 PM
I'm surprised they didn't ask if they could just cash the pick in.

O.city
04-27-2012, 03:15 PM
I wouldn't have minded Mercilus or Ingram, but that also brings up what some have said around here the last month or so.



If you take one of those guys, where do you play them? Someone has to come off the field for that to happen.

Dicky McElephant
04-27-2012, 03:16 PM
I wouldn't have minded Mercilus or Ingram, but that also brings up what some have said around here the last month or so.



If you take one of those guys, where do you play them? Someone has to come off the field for that to happen.

Ingram is a versatile player. He can play ILB, OLB, DT/DE in a nickle package. You act like Houston and Hali are out there for every fucking defensive snap that we have.

Chiefnj2
04-27-2012, 03:17 PM
Cox would have to make the same adjustment as Glenn Dorsey did. Waste of a talent.

And Poe isn't making the same adjustment?

keg in kc
04-27-2012, 03:21 PM
Nobody except Tannehill was going to make me exactly giddy.This won't be a popular comment, but I see Tannehill as the QB equivalent of Poe. I think I'd have felt exactly the same way had he been picked at 11. Wouldn't have been excited, wouldn't have been disappointed, it would have amounted to taking a big gamble on a major position of need, that's either going to boom gloriously or bust biblically, and I got no idea which way it's going to go.

suds79
04-27-2012, 03:25 PM
And Poe isn't making the same adjustment?

I think the point is you can't compare Cox to Poe. Their body types are so far apart.

Cox doesn't have the necessary size to play the NT position.

So again we're comparing the DE spot vs NT.

O.city
04-27-2012, 03:25 PM
Ingram is a versatile player. He can play ILB, OLB, DT/DE in a nickle package. You act like Houston and Hali are out there for every ****ing defensive snap that we have.

I do like what Ingram would have brought versatility wise, but I don't think he's going to be able to play with his hand in the dirt.


I think alot of the reasoning for Poe, was that he could play everydown. Whether that be true or not.

O.city
04-27-2012, 03:26 PM
And Poe isn't making the same adjustment?

What?


Poe is playing NT and the DT in sub stuff.

ChiefsCountry
04-27-2012, 03:27 PM
I would have took Dont'a Hightower.

O.city
04-27-2012, 03:28 PM
I would have took Dont'a Hightower.

I was high on him to begin with.



But after watching film and reading about him, I don't think he would have been much of an upgrade over Belcher.

saphojunkie
04-27-2012, 03:30 PM
I would have took Dont'a Hightower.

Hightower is a great pick, but we would be coming back in round two targeting a nose tackle.

They brought Chapman in, and clearly didn't feel like he was going to cut it. If we can get Upshaw in round 2, I'm loving the Poe pick. Just absolutely beefing up our run defense.

CrazyPhuD
04-27-2012, 03:31 PM
At first I was meh about the pick, but the more I read about the kid and his background the more I liked him. High character guy(and team captain lol!). It's a gamble sure, but one could argue his lack of game performance was partially a result of a lack of coaching. You can't teach talent, but you can teach technique. The question is, are they willing to learn and work their asses off. I think this kid might be.

The pick that would have really made me scream was Decastro. Sorry, I just don't believe in taking a guard that early. In the 20s sure(which is where he went), but almost top 10? No way....

I would have liked a tradeback but didn't think it was very likely without a marquee player left.

The Dawg
04-27-2012, 03:32 PM
WTF. Why did everyone want Hightower?

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:34 PM
I think given the circumstances this was the year to take a higher risk on a player at a position we are really desperately thin at talent. There wasn't a "sure thing" sitting there at NT and Cox, imo, is undersized for what we run. All things considered, assuming there were no viable trades that is, I can't fault the pick given where our off-season signings have put us.

DeCastro would have been a good pick had we needed a starter at G but we don't so take a flyer on a guy who has a great upside and if he busts you can at least look back and say there wasn't too much else there at the time.

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:36 PM
I wouldn't have minded Mercilus or Ingram, but that also brings up what some have said around here the last month or so.



If you take one of those guys, where do you play them? Someone has to come off the field for that to happen.

Exactly, I think you are crazy right now to look at pulling Houston off the field. The kid is just starting to "get it". Everyone was so high on Houston last year that it almost makes them look idiotic for wanting to draft someone that would pull him off the field.

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:37 PM
Ingram is a versatile player. He can play ILB, OLB, DT/DE in a nickle package. You act like Houston and Hali are out there for every ****ing defensive snap that we have.

Hali pretty much is. Houston probably will be this year.

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:38 PM
And Poe isn't making the same adjustment?

I don't think Poe is going to make any "adjustments" considering what he came from. I think it's more he will have to quit making adjustments from snap-snap and will be allowed to focus more on on role and that role is one he is built for.

Direckshun
04-27-2012, 03:40 PM
I would have taken Mercilus.

The best part about this pick, if there can be only one bright spot, is that it finally completes our commitment to the 3-4. We are now officially there, and it took us three fucking years to get there.

It should take three years. We were playing a speed defense, the Tampa 2, which is the smallest defense in football, and transitioned to two-gap 3-4 football, the biggest defense in football. We've got a true NT that isn't just a one-year rental. He is a true 350 lbs, not an overachieving smaller player.

Gives us one of the biggest, highest-drafted defensive lines in football.

From here on out, we talk about how to improve our 3-4, now how to transition to it anymore.

keg in kc
04-27-2012, 03:40 PM
I'm really excited about Houston's development. I still see him as a first rounder in spirit if not fact. Think he's going to turn out being the coup from that draft class. Which is not to say the other guys will be bad or anything. So while adding a third rusher to the mix would have (and could still be) nice, I can live without it.

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:40 PM
I would have took Dont'a Hightower.

I don't know enough about Hightower to say he would or wouldn't have been a good pick. All I do know is we need a mean, nasty mother fucker to play in the middle next to DJ. DJ is agressive and can bring it but still smacks of more of a finesse LB to me as opposed to just some nasty, Ray Lewis type.

Munson
04-27-2012, 03:40 PM
I was on the Melvin Ingram bandwagon. But I would have been happy with Mercilus or any other pass rusher.

My thoughts are that if Hali or Houston were to get injured, our pass rush goes to shit. You can never have too many pass rushers. Plus, Houston is still unproven. People seem to forget that he didn't do a damn thing until the last few games of the year. Ingram has the ability to rush from any position on the front 7 besides NT. I think the Chargers got themselves a baller.

ChiefsCountry
04-27-2012, 03:43 PM
WTF. Why did everyone want Hightower?

He is a damn good football who was the heart & soul of Alabama's defense.

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:43 PM
I was on the Melvin Ingram bandwagon. But I would have been happy with Mercilus or any other pass rusher.

My thoughts are that if Hali or Houston were to get injured, our pass rush goes to shit. You can never have too many pass rushers. Plus, Houston is still unproven. People seem to forget that he didn't do a damn thing until the last few games of the year. Ingram has the ability to rush from any position on the front 7 besides NT. I think the Chargers got themselves a baller.

Agreed but I don't think you waste a #11 pick on someone to be there just in case. Houston is more proven at this point than Ingram who has yet to take a snap in the NFL. Just sayin'.

And if Poe gives us any kind of push at all up the middle, even just enough to make it hard for the QB to step up in the pocket, Hali and Houston are going to terrorize some QB's this year.

Direckshun
04-27-2012, 03:45 PM
He is a damn good football who was the heart & soul of Alabama's defense.

Going a bit overboard.

Chapman played the heart & soul position.

And their defensive captains were Upshaw and Barron.

suds79
04-27-2012, 03:46 PM
Guarantee you had we picked Hightower there'd be several of us b!tching about how we reached for a guy not rated that high.

milkman
04-27-2012, 03:47 PM
I was pretty clear throughout the last couple of months that Ingram was my first choice, and Barron my second.

Ingram was there for the taking.

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:48 PM
Dan Saly, who was the last good NT the Chiefs have had, imo, averaged 3.5 sacks a year with the Chiefs. That is the level I am holding Poe too at this point. It also points out that your NT is not there to get a ton of sacks and tackles but to eat up space, take on 2 blockers and allow the LB's to make the plays.

milkman
04-27-2012, 03:48 PM
I don't know enough about Hightower to say he would or wouldn't have been a good pick. All I do know is we need a mean, nasty mother fucker to play in the middle next to DJ. DJ is agressive and can bring it but still smacks of more of a finesse LB to me as opposed to just some nasty, Ray Lewis type.

Uhhhhh........Belcher is that guy.

And he's only getting better.

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:49 PM
I was pretty clear throughout the last couple of months that Ingram was my first choice, and Barron my second.

Ingram was there for the taking.

Where would you have played him? Would you have benched Houston? Just curious, seriously, not being a smartass just wondering where you would have worked him in?

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:49 PM
Uhhhhh........Belcher is that guy.

And he's only getting better.

Then if true we didn't need Hightower. Again, I don't know much about Hightower so ...

Munson
04-27-2012, 03:52 PM
Hali and Houston don't play every down. Ingram could've given them a few snaps off. Also, in certain situations like 2nd or 3rd and long, he could sub for Dorsey/Jackson to rush the passer. The point is, you find a way to get your best rushers on the field, much like the Giants do.

O.city
04-27-2012, 03:55 PM
Stop using the Giants. We run a 34, they run a 43.


Totally different scheme.

petegz28
04-27-2012, 03:56 PM
Hali and Houston don't play every down. Ingram could've given them a few snaps off. Also, in certain situations like 2nd or 3rd and long, he could sub for Dorsey/Jackson to rush the passer. The point is, you find a way to get your best rushers on the field, much like the Giants do.

So you draft a guy at #11 to play backup?

Direckshun
04-27-2012, 03:57 PM
Dan Saly, who was the last good NT the Chiefs have had, imo, averaged 3.5 sacks a year with the Chiefs. That is the level I am holding Poe too at this point. It also points out that your NT is not there to get a ton of sacks and tackles but to eat up space, take on 2 blockers and allow the LB's to make the plays.

Different defensive scheme.

milkman
04-27-2012, 03:57 PM
Where would you have played him? Would you have benched Houston? Just curious, seriously, not being a smartass just wondering where you would have worked him in?

As Munson points out, Hali and Houston don't, or shouldn't, play every down, so he'd rotate in there.

the Chiefs also use sub package schemes about 60% of snaps, and he would be able to play inside with DJ, and either drop in coverage or blitz.

He can also line up at DE in passing situations.

There's a multitude of ways to get him on the field for a majority of snaps.

Holladay
04-27-2012, 03:57 PM
I'm pissed, how many more first round picks are we gonna use on the D-line until we get it right??

The defination of insanity/stupidity = doing the same thing while expecting different results!

As to your premise, thinking and reading the above posts, I begrudgedly accept that Poe was the best pick for value and need:(

suds79
04-27-2012, 03:57 PM
No other way to spin it.

Yes Ingram would have provided a nice additional, situational pass rush.

But the Chiefs decided to instead draft the rare freak of nature with the ability to play what might be the hardest spot to find on the field outside of QB.

Hard to fault them for that.

milkman
04-27-2012, 03:58 PM
Stop using the Giants. We run a 34, they run a 43.


Totally different scheme.

Different defenses, same idea.

Direckshun
04-27-2012, 03:58 PM
Stop using the Giants. We run a 34, they run a 43.

Totally different scheme.

So you draft a guy at #11 to play backup?

The Giants utilize a system where they wear down tackles over the course of the game by keeping a fresh, talented trio of devastating passrushers fresh with their ears constantly pinned down.

There is no reason why we couldn't embrace that philosophy here.

Direckshun
04-27-2012, 03:59 PM
No other way to spin it.

Yes Ingram would have provided a nice additional, situational pass rush.

But the Chiefs decided to instead draft the rare freak of nature with the ability to play what might be the hardest spot to find on the field outside of QB.

Hard to fault them for that.

Ingram was a pipe dream anyway. His arms are too short.

The only short-armed passrusher in the league that has done anything is Tamba Hali, and he had to become a fucking black belt to pull it off.

Chiefnj2
04-27-2012, 03:59 PM
I would have taken Cox or Brockers to play DE.
I would have taken DeCastro.
I would have taken Kirkpatrick.
I would have taken Ingram, McClellin, Mercilus or Jones.
I would have taken Floyd.

suds79
04-27-2012, 03:59 PM
This might sound weird but I love swinging for the fences.

If you hit, you have greatness. If you whiff, you suffer greatly for it and draft that QB in the top 5.

Playing it safe IMO is a great way to always be 8-8.

KCDC
04-27-2012, 04:00 PM
As much as I hate the Poe pick, the board fell terribly to us because Keuchly and Barron did not fall to us. If they had, we could have taken one or traded back and still gotten a good DT/DE.

There was no one left at our pick that was worth someone jumping up to get except Philly (who wanted a DT). We still could have taken Ingram or Brockers or anyone, I know.

Reaper16
04-27-2012, 04:03 PM
He is a damn good football who was the heart & soul of Alabama's defense.

Trust me. Josh Chapman was the heart & soul of that defense. He was that team's emotional leader, especially off-the-field. He set the tone in practice. He set the tone just walking around campus.

ChiefsCountry
04-27-2012, 04:04 PM
Uhhhhh........Belcher is that guy.

And he's only getting better.

As much as Belcher's improved, him as a backup would make this team even better.

Direckshun
04-27-2012, 04:05 PM
Trust me. Josh Chapman was the heart & soul of that defense. He was that team's emotional leader, especially off-the-field. He set the tone in practice. He set the tone just walking around campus.

Yup.

And as mentioned earlier, Barron and Upshaw were voted captains.

Not to belittle Hightower's work, but I don't want to make him any more than he is out of spite against the Poe selection.

O.city
04-27-2012, 04:05 PM
I would have taken Cox or Brockers to play DE.
I would have taken DeCastro.
I would have taken Kirkpatrick.
I would have taken Ingram, McClellin, Mercilus or Jones.
I would have taken Floyd.

And only one of those guys would have been a surefire starter.

Frosty
04-27-2012, 04:06 PM
This might sound weird but I love swinging for the fences.

If you hit, you have greatness. If you whiff, you suffer greatly for it and draft that QB in the top 5.

Playing it safe IMO is a great way to always be 8-8.

Okay.

**** it.

This is the attitude I'm going to take. Thanks. :thumb:

ChiefsCountry
04-27-2012, 04:08 PM
Of course if we would have took Cody instead of McCluster we could be bitching about something else today.

Chiefnj2
04-27-2012, 04:09 PM
And only one of those guys would have been a surefire starter.

Poe is a surefire starter?

O.city
04-27-2012, 04:10 PM
Is he not?

KCrockaholic
04-27-2012, 04:10 PM
Ingram was a pipe dream anyway. His arms are too short.

The only short-armed passrusher in the league that has done anything is Tamba Hali, and he had to become a ****ing black belt to pull it off.

Hali does not have short arms.

At least it doesn't seem that way.

Direckshun
04-27-2012, 04:14 PM
Is he not?

I would hesitate to say he is on Day One.

He's going to have to beat out Amon Gordon, who Crennel loves.

He's clearly going to be better, but there's going to have to be a lot of development.

My guess is that Poe is just going to absolutely suck this year. We won't know what we have until Year 3.

Direckshun
04-27-2012, 04:15 PM
Hali does not have short arms.

At least it doesn't seem that way.

30"

Microscopic, by today's standards.

DTLB58
04-27-2012, 04:15 PM
JFC how many times do I have to tell you this? Haven't we talked about this at length last night?

Hightower.

And then obligatory, nobody appreciates Belcher...

KCrockaholic
04-27-2012, 04:18 PM
30"

Microscopic, by today's standards.

It's kind of strange actually. His arm length is measured as 30", but they look longer in game, and from cbssports they mention his "long arms" twice during their report on him.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/412000

Has the long arms needed to reach out, lock on and get a piece of the ballcarriers when chasing along the perimeter.

With his long arm length, he needs to do a better job of protecting his upper body from getting stymied on initial contact, but he lacks the strength to be effective winning battles vs. the larger offensive tackles.

That was from 2006

milkman
04-27-2012, 04:19 PM
As much as Belcher's improved, him as a backup would make this team even better.

I've never argued that.

My argument has been that Kuechly was not the guy to replace Belcher with, and that we haven't yet seen how good Belcher will be.

He may have reached his ceiling, but I highly doubt it, especially given the fact that he had no offseason last year, and even then he still showed improvement.

He has improved at his position at a rate similar to the improvement made by Brandon Carr.

If he continues to ascend at that rate, by the end of next season,when we lose him to free agancy, the reaction will be similar to the one when Carr walked.

BossChief
04-27-2012, 04:19 PM
Hali does not have short arms.

At least it doesn't seem that way.

When he was at Penn State, I used to call him T-Rex

suds79
04-27-2012, 04:26 PM
Poe is a surefire starter?

Yes. Maybe not by week 1.

But a few or so games in? Yeah I'd say so. Considering his competition and that he'll be taken in the 11 spot? Yeah.

Direckshun
04-27-2012, 04:28 PM
That was from 2006

Weird.

milkman
04-27-2012, 05:29 PM
Yes. Maybe not by week 1.

But a few or so games in? Yeah I'd say so. Considering his competition and that he'll be taken in the 11 spot? Yeah.

I think people are really underestimating Jerrel Powe.

I don't know what the coaches thought he was lacking last yaer to limit him so much, but I still think that kid has huge potential.

If I were a betting man, he'll be the starter.

griZZly64
04-27-2012, 05:32 PM
I'm all in with POE!!! I love the pick.

Tuckdaddy
04-27-2012, 07:31 PM
I hate the pick but for that position 3-4 nobody else was actually big enough for what Pioli and Crennel are use to having. Romeo got two rings with Bill P and he is famous for saying that if you have a chance to get a 300 pound plus player then you take it because there are only so many on the planet that weigh that much and can actually move.

O.city
04-27-2012, 07:33 PM
The two Po' Boys bring a shit ton of potential to the NT spot, thats for sure.