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Hoover
04-29-2012, 09:12 AM
The NFL draft is a lot like Christmas morning. There is a lot of anticipation leading up to the big day, and when the time finally arrives to see whatís under the tree for us we can sometimes be a little disappointed.

We all remember the Christmas that we got everything we wanted. For Chiefs fans that was last year. We got a QB, WR, DBs, and LBs. Heck we even liked the more practical gifts like a Rodney Hudson. Frankly, the 2011 draft gave us a lot to play with, and we used them.

After a big year like 2011, some of you seem down. Sure we got the big present we always talk about (NT), but itsí not as cool as we thought it would be. We also ended up with some more practical gifts than we expected.

Here is how I view this draft, and to be honest Iím pretty stoked about it.

After having a draft like we did in 2011 where we seemed to hit on almost every pick, it wasnít necessary for the Chiefs to snag additional pass rushers to sit behind guys like Hali and Houston. While we are still a little shallow when it comes to the safety position and could use some depth at center, the Chiefs are well positioned. In fact, I think the practicality of the 2012 Chiefs draft will allow them the flexibility in future drafts to aggressively seek out play makers to add to this team.

If there is one thing that I think Pioli deserves credit for, itís rebuilding the Chiefs offensive live. While Albert was already hear when he arrived, Pioli not only filled a glaring hole at RT when he signed Eric Winston, but his last three drafts has set the Chiefs on a course to maintain a quality offensive line for years to come.

Many on this board recoiled at any suggestion that the Chiefs should use their first round pick on a lineman. After all the heated debates about the value of DeCastro, Pioli seems to agree with those who donít want to invest first round picks on the line. Maybe instead of bitching that we didnít have the Steelersí draft, some of you should praise Pioli for doing exactly what you advocated for.

In the last three years, Pioli has taken four offensive linemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft. Asamoah and Hudson are now starters. Jeff Allen is going to push Ryan Lilja for a starting spot at guard, but is more likely to be seasoned for a year before finding a permanent home on the life. I know itís sometimes hard to get excited about the offensive line, but Pioli obviously has a process that seems to be working really well.

Picking back-to-back tackles isnít as exciting as drafting guys like Justin Houston or Javier Arenas, but it feeds a system that can produce quality linemen that allows the Chiefs not use first round picks on offensive tackles, guards, or centers. It also means that the Chiefs will not be forced to commit free agent dollars on those positions either.

We are lucky to have landed Winston this offseason. Without him there would probably be no Poe. I like how Pioli is building this team. While I continue to be frustrated about Cassel, finding a franchise QB is never easy. We have had three solid drafts under Pioli and we can already see the results. Yes we need to find a QB, but at least we are building a strong team while we continue to look for him.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 09:15 AM
Pioli doesn't deserve shit until he delivers a playoff win.

LiveSteam
04-29-2012, 09:17 AM
Pioli doesn't deserve shit until he delivers a playoff win or has Matt Cassels baby .

:evil:

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 09:18 AM
Only if he dies in childbirth.

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 09:18 AM
Pioli and Cassel both suck.
just not sure which sucks more yet.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 09:20 AM
The great news is, we're a QB away from being a good team for a very long time.
The bad news is, we're a QB away from being a good team for a very long time.

SNR
04-29-2012, 09:20 AM
I don't care about positions or any of that other shit. Pioli wants to draft all fatties? Fine.

Just draft some good ones for fuck's sake. Not guys that have "backup potential".

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 09:24 AM
The great news is, we're a QB away from being a good team for a very long time.
The bad news is, we're a QB away from being a good team for a very long time.

I disagree, and people keep saying this, and it's just not fucking true.

We need a QB and a HC.

SNR
04-29-2012, 09:26 AM
You want to draft a WR in the 4th round? Fine. How about you draft a guy who's not a white brokedick piece of shit?

With most of this draft I was fine. You can't expect every player to turn into a stud, but you can draft so that every player (or nearly every player) has some good things going for him.

Last year, I think every single player except for Shane Bannan (a freakin 7th rounder) had good things going for him. It wouldn't be shocking if all of them didn't work out, but at least every single guy had an elite quality about him.

This year, we took Allen, Menzie, Gray, and Hemingway. Stephonson, Wylie, and Long were abortions. If the Poe pick works out, then the draft is a success. However, I give small odds (no more than 35%)

It's why lots of people aren't giving up or hopeless. They're just disappointed.

SNR
04-29-2012, 09:28 AM
I disagree, and people keep saying this, and it's just not fucking true.

We need a QB and a HC.Romeo is mediocre. He's not terrible.

Like all mediocre head coaches, if you give him a franchise QB to work with, he can appear to be a great coach when he's really not.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 09:28 AM
The Poe pick is honestly a complete fucking abortion and no one should be defending it right now.

You don't pick players with shit production at #11. You just fucking don't. It's retarded as hell.

Right now it feels like we drafted Poe because the idiot in charge ignored NT for 3 years, and he backed himself into a corner, and reached.

Fuck that pick. And this is coming from someone who defended Tyson Jackson for a season.

Deberg_1990
04-29-2012, 09:34 AM
The Poe pick is honestly a complete ****ing abortion and no one should be defending it right now.

You don't pick players with shit production at #11. You just ****ing don't. It's retarded as hell.

Right now it feels like we drafted Poe because the idiot in charge ignored NT for 3 years, and he backed himself into a corner, and reached.

**** that pick. And this is coming from someone who defended Tyson Jackson for a season.

Didn't realize u could see into the future? your awesome!

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 09:36 AM
In the future, you might actually learn how to spell "you're."

Hog Farmer
04-29-2012, 09:39 AM
Pioli doesn't deserve shit until he delivers a playoff win.

It's coming . If we can stay healthy this year we shall kick Peyton Mannings ass (Crennel knows how), win the AFCW and be a legit challenger to win the AFC.







Wait. Theres Cassel.

Nevermind!

CrazyHorse
04-29-2012, 09:39 AM
The Poe pick is honestly a complete ****ing abortion and no one should be defending it right now.

You don't pick players with shit production at #11. You just ****ing don't. It's retarded as hell.

Right now it feels like we drafted Poe because the idiot in charge ignored NT for 3 years, and he backed himself into a corner, and reached.

**** that pick. And this is coming from someone who defended Tyson Jackson for a season.

This post is very encouraging, because you're never right.

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 09:40 AM
lets count all the things Pioli's done to deserve props.

1. Traded For Castle
2. Drafted T Jack
3. Hired Haley
4. Let Orton Walk (not a Franchise QB but better than anyone we have on the roster)
5. Drafted Poe when he should have worked a trade to at least get the third best QB in this years draft.

yeah Pioli deserves mucho props, if it wasnt form Herms great draft of 08 he would have been fired already.

Von Dumbass
04-29-2012, 09:41 AM
Poe was the only pick that made sense when you consider the needs the Chiefs have. The only other thing Pioli could have done was trade up for a Barron, Kuechly, or Tannehill.

Yeah Poe didn't have a lot of production but from everything I have heard about him he is a high effort player for a guy his size and he has all the tools to be an elite 3-4 NT. Poe was well worth the 11th pick in the draft IMO.

J Diddy
04-29-2012, 09:42 AM
The Poe pick is honestly a complete ****ing abortion and no one should be defending it right now.

You don't pick players with shit production at #11. You just ****ing don't. It's retarded as hell.

Right now it feels like we drafted Poe because the idiot in charge ignored NT for 3 years, and he backed himself into a corner, and reached.

**** that pick. And this is coming from someone who defended Tyson Jackson for a season.

I see your concern, however, is a nt going to see a lot of statistical production? Is anybody going to be successful being moved all over the place and asked to fit in, rather than play to his strengths?

IMO, they felt they needed a big strong body to play at the weakest position of the defense. They went and got him. Obviously I think that trading down to get him would have been ideal, but I, nor you, don't know if that was a possibility. Obviously they felt if they moved they couldn't get him.

I can't fault that.

O.city
04-29-2012, 09:43 AM
Poe fit the criteria they have for a NT. Big, strong, great athleticism, great lateral movement.



Now we will see if it translates.

J Diddy
04-29-2012, 09:43 AM
Poe was the only pick that made sense when you consider the needs the Chiefs have. The only other thing Pioli could have done was trade up for a Barron, Kuechly, or Tannehill.

Yeah Poe didn't have a lot of production but from everything I have heard about him he is a high effort player for a guy his size and he has all the tools to be an elite 3-4 NT. Poe was well worth the 11th pick in the draft IMO.


Yes. You definitely can't knock a guys motor who plays every down on a crap team and all over the place as well.

milkman
04-29-2012, 09:43 AM
There's 2 picks that I actually like in this draft.

Menzi and Gray.

Beyond that, the rest are guys that are head scratchers, at best.

I think Jeff Allen has potential, but keneche Osemele would have been a better pick.

Donald Stephenson has huge potential, but Bobbie Massie would have been a better pick for the immediate needs of this team.

Poe is a huge question mark.

ChiefsNow
04-29-2012, 09:43 AM
A good thing about this. Once we get a replacement for Cassel, The pieces will be in place to help him succeed. I'm hoping Stanzi beefed up in the off season and comes in and makes his presence known.

Marcellus
04-29-2012, 09:43 AM
I don't care about positions or any of that other shit. Pioli wants to draft all fatties? Fine.

Just draft some good ones for ****'s sake. Not guys that have "backup potential".

I don't think anybody they drafted in the first 3 rounds were drafted just be backups. Maybe this year with the OL but Poe will start this year. Both OL were drafted right where future starting guards etc...should be drafted.

Who were we going to draft after round 1 that was going to be a starter? What position outside of FB and NT (QB off the table as we know) do we have legitimate openings for a starter now after the off season pick up of Winston, Boss etc...?

The starting 22 is pretty much set barring injury and the skill positions have backups for the most part, our whole draft was going to be for depth after Poe.

Chiefshrink
04-29-2012, 09:44 AM
The NFL draft is a lot like Christmas morning. There is a lot of anticipation leading up to the big day, and when the time finally arrives to see whatís under the tree for us we can sometimes be a little disappointed.

We all remember the Christmas that we got everything we wanted. For Chiefs fans that was last year. We got a QB, WR, DBs, and LBs. Heck we even liked the more practical gifts like a Rodney Hudson. Frankly, the 2011 draft gave us a lot to play with, and we used them.

After a big year like 2011, some of you seem down. Sure we got the big present we always talk about (NT), but itsí not as cool as we thought it would be. We also ended up with some more practical gifts than we expected.

Here is how I view this draft, and to be honest Iím pretty stoked about it.

After having a draft like we did in 2011 where we seemed to hit on almost every pick, it wasnít necessary for the Chiefs to snag additional pass rushers to sit behind guys like Hali and Houston. While we are still a little shallow when it comes to the safety position and could use some depth at center, the Chiefs are well positioned. In fact, I think the practicality of the 2012 Chiefs draft will allow them the flexibility in future drafts to aggressively seek out play makers to add to this team.

If there is one thing that I think Pioli deserves credit for, itís rebuilding the Chiefs offensive live. While Albert was already hear when he arrived, Pioli not only filled a glaring hole at RT when he signed Eric Winston, but his last three drafts has set the Chiefs on a course to maintain a quality offensive line for years to come.

Many on this board recoiled at any suggestion that the Chiefs should use their first round pick on a lineman. After all the heated debates about the value of DeCastro, Pioli seems to agree with those who donít want to invest first round picks on the line. Maybe instead of bitching that we didnít have the Steelersí draft, some of you should praise Pioli for doing exactly what you advocated for.

In the last three years, Pioli has taken four offensive linemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft. Asamoah and Hudson are now starters. Jeff Allen is going to push Ryan Lilja for a starting spot at guard, but is more likely to be seasoned for a year before finding a permanent home on the life. I know itís sometimes hard to get excited about the offensive line, but Pioli obviously has a process that seems to be working really well.

Picking back-to-back tackles isnít as exciting as drafting guys like Justin Houston or Javier Arenas, but it feeds a system that can produce quality linemen that allows the Chiefs not use first round picks on offensive tackles, guards, or centers. It also means that the Chiefs will not be forced to commit free agent dollars on those positions either.

We are lucky to have landed Winston this offseason. Without him there would probably be no Poe. I like how Pioli is building this team. While I continue to be frustrated about Cassel, finding a franchise QB is never easy. We have had three solid drafts under Pioli and we can already see the results. Yes we need to find a QB, but at least we are building a strong team while we continue to look for him.

Excellent perspective Hoov !! And I agree thoroughly !:thumb: We will be grateful as all get out in 2-3yrs when we have an even better O and D lines with our QBOTF hitting his stride(Stanzi):thumb:

kczoo
04-29-2012, 09:45 AM
I like your attitude. Most everyone on here is a smartass, incompetent, unknowledgeable "chiefs fan". I dint post much because replies are from dumbasses saying, you spelled a word wrong; Christ.........idiots. Good read, good tude. Open the gates, let the peasants in.

O.city
04-29-2012, 09:46 AM
There's 2 picks that I actually like in this draft.

Menzi and Gray.

Beyond that, the rest are guys that are head scratchers, at best.

I think Jeff Allen has potential, but keneche Osemele would have been a better pick.

Donald Stephenson has huge potential, but Bobbie Massie would have been a better pick for the immediate needs of this team.

Poe is a huge question mark.

I actually thought the same things Milk.


But something had to be wrong with Massie for him to slide that far. And I don't think they really viewed Osemele as a zone guy.


I think the mayocks and kipers of the world who grade these guys throw peoples views of drafts off. Obviously, what Mayock and Kiper had people graded as, scouts didn't agree on some guys.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 09:47 AM
You want to draft a WR in the 4th round? Fine. How about you draft a guy who's not a white brokedick piece of shit?

With most of this draft I was fine. You can't expect every player to turn into a stud, but you can draft so that every player (or nearly every player) has some good things going for him.

Last year, I think every single player except for Shane Bannan (a freakin 7th rounder) had good things going for him. It wouldn't be shocking if all of them didn't work out, but at least every single guy had an elite quality about him.

This year, we took Allen, Menzie, Gray, and Hemingway. Stephonson, Wylie, and Long were abortions. If the Poe pick works out, then the draft is a success. However, I give small odds (no more than 35%)

It's why lots of people aren't giving up or hopeless. They're just disappointed.

I don't know that we can call them abortions. Allen could potentially be a starter at a key position and you can see Menzie playing some kind of a role. What you have to like about picks like Stephenson and Wylie is that they're depth picks, but they're based a lot more on potential than they are on making an immediate impact. For a Left Tackle, I care a lot about having fast feet and many seem to point out that he has some of the best in this class. Boom/bust guy. Wylie is a guy who probably won't see the field anytime soon, but you have to like his raw athletic ability. Hemingway and Long are your run-of-the-mill late round guys.

It wasn't a sexy draft, but once again, you could see probably about 5 of these guys not just making the roster, but earning a roster spot. And there's some potential boom that a few of these guys could be quality starters in 3 years. I'd give the draft a B, but yeah, the nature of the later picks makes this entire thing ride on Poe.

J Diddy
04-29-2012, 09:48 AM
lets count all the things Pioli's done to deserve props.

1. Traded For Castle
2. Drafted T Jack
3. Hired Haley
4. Let Orton Walk (not a Franchise QB but better than anyone we have on the roster)
5. Drafted Poe when he should have worked a trade to at least get the third best QB in this years draft.

yeah Pioli deserves mucho props, if it wasnt form Herms great draft of 08 he would have been fired already.

1. Although it hasn't worked out, it could be worse. We could still have Thigpen at QB
2. Jackson is starting to play well. Everything I've read about d lineman confirms that it takes some time.
3. Haley was a bold move. He was a young OC from a Superbowl team. Complaining about this cracks me up.
4. Your love for Orton is duly noted. However, outside of those 3 games what has Orton shown. Orton is Matt Cassel
5. A move that would have taken a lot of picks to pull. Tbh, you're upset that we didn't throw away a bunch of picks to move up and take a quarterback who has only started a handful of games in college. and you're upset about the trade for cassel?

J Diddy
04-29-2012, 09:51 AM
There's 2 picks that I actually like in this draft.

Menzi and Gray.

Beyond that, the rest are guys that are head scratchers, at best.

I think Jeff Allen has potential, but keneche Osemele would have been a better pick.

Donald Stephenson has huge potential, but Bobbie Massie would have been a better pick for the immediate needs of this team.

Poe is a huge question mark.
IMO, it's a bold boom or bust move. Poe is either going to be a super star or will be out of the league. He's got the motor and he's got the physical attributes, we'll see how it pans out.

ThatRaceCardGuy
04-29-2012, 09:52 AM
Pioli is fail unless he proves other wise. Any GM who refuses to acknowledge the Aids abortion which is Cassell needs to hit the bricks. The fact he resigned all of Carl and Herm`s picks is great..good job dip shit for doing what should of obviously been done. Now , what has done himself? Barry is the only solid pick we got out of his drafts. Everyone else is either okay or injured.

GM of the decade my ass. **** him , **** the "Clarks." Sale the got damn team to an owner who actually cares about winning a Super Bowl and not just about winning at the ticket booth. JFC its been almost 20 years since we won a ****ing playoff game. Its been almost 40 years since we had a HOF QB on our team (exluding Montana). Im sick and tired of being the team known for tailgating and loud crowds...I would much rather trade that for a Super Bowl win..jfc at this point a play off win would even do

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 09:57 AM
1. Although it hasn't worked out, it could be worse. We could still have Thigpen at QB
2. Jackson is starting to play well. Everything I've read about d lineman confirms that it takes some time.
3. Haley was a bold move. He was a young OC from a Superbowl team. Complaining about this cracks me up.
4. Your love for Orton is duly noted. However, outside of those 3 games what has Orton shown. Orton is Matt Cassel
5. A move that would have taken a lot of picks to pull. Tbh, you're upset that we didn't throw away a bunch of picks to move up and take a quarterback who has only started a handful of games in college. and you're upset about the trade for cassel?

#1 - it's the one move that could throw Pioli's entire resume out the window. Which is why it's mind-numbing that he's so stubborn about it.
#2 - agreed. Jackson wasn't a great pick, but he was very good given the talent level of that draft class.
#3 - Haley helped this team a ton. I don't know that anyone can be critical of the hiring. I'm one of the few that's critical of the firing as well.
#4 - Orton > Cassel, and starting next year, a shitload cheaper. Bad move.
#5 - It wouldn't have taken a ton of picks to get Tannehill. I just don't get the hype with him. Tannehill felt like a QB of convenience. I think 2013 has potential to be a very deep QB class and, in that class, he could potentially be the 5th or 6th best.

SNR
04-29-2012, 09:57 AM
I don't think anybody they drafted in the first 3 rounds were drafted just be backups. Maybe this year with the OL but Poe will start this year. Both OL were drafted right where future starting guards etc...should be drafted.

Who were we going to draft after round 1 that was going to be a starter? What position outside of FB and NT (QB off the table as we know) do we have legitimate openings for a starter now after the off season pick up of Winston, Boss etc...?

The starting 22 is pretty much set barring injury and the skill positions have backups for the most part, our whole draft was going to be for depth after Poe.Like I said, there were far better tackles available at Stephonson's spot.

I'm okay with Jeff Allen over some of the other guys on the board. He's 2nd round worthy and the coaches liked him a lot. I wouldn't have taken him, but I'm cool with the pick. I like it

SNR
04-29-2012, 09:59 AM
I don't know that we can call them abortions. Allen could potentially be a starter at a key position and you can see Menzie playing some kind of a role. What you have to like about picks like Stephenson and Wylie is that they're depth picks, but they're based a lot more on potential than they are on making an immediate impact. For a Left Tackle, I care a lot about having fast feet and many seem to point out that he has some of the best in this class. Boom/bust guy. Wylie is a guy who probably won't see the field anytime soon, but you have to like his raw athletic ability. Hemingway and Long are your run-of-the-mill late round guys.

It wasn't a sexy draft, but once again, you could see probably about 5 of these guys not just making the roster, but earning a roster spot. And there's some potential boom that a few of these guys could be quality starters in 3 years. I'd give the draft a B, but yeah, the nature of the later picks makes this entire thing ride on Poe.I said I liked Allen, Gray, Menzie, and Hemingway.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 10:01 AM
I said I liked Allen, Gray, Menzie, and Hemingway.

My bad. Mis-read (didn't see the period). I thought something seemed strange about that.

Marcellus
04-29-2012, 10:01 AM
#1 - it's the one move that could throw Pioli's entire resume out the window. Which is why it's mind-numbing that he's so stubborn about it.
#2 - agreed. Jackson wasn't a great pick, but he was very good given the talent level of that draft class.
#3 - Haley helped this team a ton. I don't know that anyone can be critical of the hiring. I'm one of the few that's critical of the firing as well.
#4 - Orton > Cassel, and starting next year, a shitload cheaper. Bad move.
#5 - It wouldn't have taken a ton of picks to get Tannehill. I just don't get the hype with him. Tannehill felt like a QB of convenience. I think 2013 has potential to be a very deep QB class and, in that class, he could potentially be the 5th or 6th best.

#1 - I don't think he is stubborn about it, I think the options have still been limited after he made the mistake of trading for Cassel. Orton over Cassel? Sure but is that the long term answer? His decision to go to Dallas to be a backup right away in FA tells me all I need to know about the pussy. He doesn't even want to start. Do I wish they would make a bold move at QB? Hell yea but it needs to be for a Luck or RGIII type, not a project.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 10:04 AM
I see your concern, however, is a nt going to see a lot of statistical production?

I didn't say statistical production. I said production.

He didn't play that well against shitty competition.

And FYI, even guys like Glenn Dorsey and Nick Fairley had good stats coming out. Dorsey had 69 tackles and 7 sacks his senior year. Fairley had 11.5 sacks as a senior.

Yeah, Poe isn't really in their mold, but he played all over the place, he wasn't a true NT. He's being tabbed to be a pass rusher in the pros already.

This guy had 5 sacks in 3 years. In C-USA.

Fuck, Junior Siavii did more in college than this guy.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 10:06 AM
This post is very encouraging, because you're never right.

Really, dipshit? I was right about Haley. I was right about McCluster.

All you ever do is err on the side of homer.

Marcellus
04-29-2012, 10:09 AM
Really, dipshit? I was right about Haley. I was right about McCluster.

All you ever do is err on the side of homer.

Your correctness on either subject is debatable, just not in your mind.

ILWarpaint
04-29-2012, 10:09 AM
I don't think anybody they drafted in the first 3 rounds were drafted just be backups. Maybe this year with the OL but Poe will start this year. Both OL were drafted right where future starting guards etc...should be drafted.

Who were we going to draft after round 1 that was going to be a starter? What position outside of FB and NT (QB off the table as we know) do we have legitimate openings for a starter now after the off season pick up of Winston, Boss etc...?

The starting 22 is pretty much set barring injury and the skill positions have backups for the most part, our whole draft was going to be for depth after Poe.

Exactly.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 10:10 AM
Haley is no longer here, we just drafted Midget 2.0 and a RB.

Yeah, debatable. LMAOLMAO

BigRedChief
04-29-2012, 10:14 AM
Pioli doesn't deserve shit until he delivers a playoff win.If we would have won one more game last year. We would have beaten Pitt at Arrowhead. We could have won several games last year. We are not that far away due to the quality of the division.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 10:14 AM
Really, dipshit? I was right about Haley. I was right about McCluster.

All you ever do is err on the side of homer.

I don't think you were right about Haley. I still believe he could have done fine in a less toxic environment. The team is much better because he was here. And I think he's going to do a very good job in Pittsburgh.

Cave Johnson
04-29-2012, 10:15 AM
We couldn't use additional pass rushers? F that noise. If the Chiefs couldn't find a way to use another, that's an inditement of RAC's scheme/creativity.

We did what we typically do, take a needs-based, projection pick as opposed to BPA. Good franchises emphasize QBs and take value picks. We pick big guys and role/versatile players. It's the Patriot way.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 10:15 AM
I don't think you were right about Haley.

I was right that he was going to be fired.

I was right that he sucked cock.

Until he gets another HC gig and succeeds, I'm fucking right.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 10:16 AM
If we would have won one more game last year. We would have beaten Pitt at Arrowhead. We could have won several games last year. We are not that far away due to the quality of the division.

If only we could play the NFC West every year!

O.city
04-29-2012, 10:16 AM
If Berry and Charles don't go down last year, we win a playoff game.

Marcellus
04-29-2012, 10:17 AM
Haley is no longer here, we just drafted Midget 2.0 and a RB.

Yeah, debatable. LMAOLMAO

Because Haley is not here does not mean he was the biggest issue. You want to bash Pioli and Haley? Both are to blame for everything?

DMC is still on the team bud, he also cost you several bets last year. Will he ever be a star? I doubt it, was he a colossal ridiculous bust? I don't see it yet, its definitely not fact at this point and I can tell you, I don't like him.

Even if you get DMC 100% right, hell even if you were right on Haley and DMC, anyone who spews as much shit as you is going to be right on occasion.

Your LJ man crush that went on 2 years too long and your wishy washy back and forth BS (See "Matt Cassel Can't Do It Alone") negates most anything you blindly get half ass correct.

crazycoffey
04-29-2012, 10:17 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=259055

the retard is strong in this thread

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 10:18 AM
If Berry and Charles don't go down last year, we win a playoff game.

2010 says hello.

crazycoffey
04-29-2012, 10:19 AM
Because Haley is not here does not mean he was the biggest issue. You want to bash Pioli and Haley? Both are to blame for everything?

DMC is still on the team bud, he also cost you several bets last year. Will he ever be a star? I doubt it, was he a colossal ridiculous bust? I don't see it yet, its definitely not fact at this point and I can tell you, I don't like him.

Even if you get DMC 100% right, hell even if you were right on Haley and DMC, anyone who spews as much shit as you is going to be right on occasion.

Your LJ man crush that went on 2 years too long and your wishy washy back and forth BS (See "Matt Cassel Can't Do It Alone") negates most anything you blindly get half ass correct.


:troll:

Marcellus
04-29-2012, 10:19 AM
2010 says hello.

By that logic, we never will win a playoff game.

crazycoffey
04-29-2012, 10:20 AM
By that logic, we never will win a playoff game.

Chiefsplanet says hello

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 10:20 AM
I was right that he was going to be fired.

I was right that he sucked cock.

Until he gets another HC gig and succeeds, I'm ****ing right.

This team is a lot better because he was here. It amazes me how critics will downplay the improvement a lot of players made under his watch. Maybe he wasn't the best long-term fit for a coach. But I'm very glad he was the coach for the time he was here.

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 10:23 AM
All you ever do is err on the side of homer.

Really?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=212382

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 10:25 AM
By that logic, we never will win a playoff game.

Wasn't saying that at all.

Simply making a point that we had the services of those two players in 2010, and we were ass raped in our own building.

Curious as to what he thinks changed in one offseason that makes him think we would have won a playoff game.

If we would have won one more game last year. We would have beaten Pitt at Arrowhead. We could have won several games last year. We are not that far away due to the quality of the division.

I know and like BRC in "real life", but this quote sums up the fanbase.

We're not that far away due to the quality of the division.

Great, we win a weak division.

Then what?

Continue to settle for mediocrity, according to most.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 10:28 AM
Wasn't saying that at all.

Simply making a point that we had the services of those two players in 2010, and we were ass raped in our own building.

Curious as to what he thinks changed in one offseason that makes him think we would have won a playoff game.



I know and like BRC in "real life", but this quote sums up the fanbase.

We're not that far away due to the quality of the division.

Great, we win a weak division.

Then what?

Continue to settle for mediocrity, according to most.

Well, I think the more appropriate point is that Kyle Orton showed us that with a better QB, we can be very competitive. Which is saying a lot, because a team can do a lot better than Kyle Orton. With a legit QB, we could be Super Bowl contenders. That's good and very unfortunate at the same time.

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 10:28 AM
Pioli is one horrible decision from being a very good GM.

Unfortunately, he failed on the most important position.

Chiefshrink
04-29-2012, 10:28 AM
I think the mayocks and kipers of the world who grade these guys throw peoples views of drafts off. Obviously, what Mayock and Kiper had people graded as, scouts didn't agree on some guys.

I don't think the FOs give a shit what Mayock and Kiper think. But I do think the FOs use these guys for poker play though with other teams that's for sure.

In all actuality, I think the FO's of each team actually sit back and laugh at these wannabes most of the time and actually conduct and observe like professors in a lab setting doing experiments with mice, saying to themselves "watch what happens to the "sports media mice" when we take this player!;)

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 10:29 AM
Pioli is one horrible decision from being a very good GM.

Unfortunately, he failed on the most important position.

Agreed.

Chiefshrink
04-29-2012, 10:31 AM
Well, I think the more appropriate point is that Kyle Orton showed us that with a better QB, we can be very competitive. Which is saying a lot, because a team can do a lot better than Kyle Orton. With a legit QB, we could be Super Bowl contenders. That's good and very unfortunate at the same time.

Come on now, common sense is always clouded when the ego is more important(a la Pioli trying to will Cassel to good QB play):rolleyes:

Marcellus
04-29-2012, 10:33 AM
Pioli is one horrible decision from being a very good GM.

Unfortunately, he failed on the most important position.

I am not a big Pioli fan though I am not completely sold on his failure just yet, but I am heavily leaning that way.To me this years draft of Poe will be a huge step one way or another depending on how things shake out.

If Poe answers the NT issue we have a very very good defense.

Problem is that gives Cassel a crutch, especially if we have a great running game again like in 2010.

We could see years of Martyball like football in a league that throws it around like crazy.

:banghead:

DeezNutz
04-29-2012, 10:33 AM
By that logic, we never will win a playoff game.

Have faith. /'93

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 10:35 AM
I was right that he was going to be fired.

I was right that he sucked cock.

Until he gets another HC gig and succeeds, I'm fucking right.

This is hilarious considering how much you used to slobber over Haley.

If not for injuries, the Chiefs win 10 and Haley is not fired.

Hoover
04-29-2012, 10:35 AM
I don't understand those who don't like this draft because of the lack of instant starters. Who the hell are we going to bench? I think there are two places for rookies to start, NT and Guard.

DE? Nope, Dorsey and T-Jax are starters and former top 5 draft picks. Might not have lived up to their billing but there was nobody in this draft that would have started over them.

LB? I think Hali, Houston, and DJ have their spots cemented in the starting line up. There is a spot open at ILB but Belcher an Siler are not bad options. The only guy who would have started over them went in the top ten. Maybe Hightower would have been an upgrade but we would still have a gapping hole at NT

I could go on and on, but there were few people that we could have drafted that were going to make an instant impact on this team. Besides QB and NT, there were not many players who were going to get a chance to start for the Chiefs. Its not a bad problem to have.

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 10:37 AM
I am not a big Pioli fan though I am not completely sold on his failure just yet, but I am heavily leaning that way.To me this years draft of Poe will be a huge step one way or another depending on how things shake out.

If Poe answers the NT issue we have a very very good defense.

Problem is that gives Cassel a crutch, especially if we have a great running game again like in 2010.

We could see years of Martyball like football in a league that throws it around like crazy.

:banghead:

I was going to start a thread about this book, but I'll just link it here.

One of the first things he does is rip the Chiefs for thinking they can win games running the football and playing defense.

Mentions that we were the only team in the league to run the ball more than pass, even when we were losing.

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Plan-Approach-Decision-ebook/dp/B007SBHUHA/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335717301&sr=1-5

Cave Johnson
04-29-2012, 10:37 AM
Pioli deserves a kick in the balls. So you identify G as a key position of need? Fine, trade back, get am extra 3rd, and take Steve Hutchinson 2.0.

the Talking Can
04-29-2012, 10:38 AM
Pioli is one horrible decision from being a very good GM.

Unfortunately, he failed on the most important position.

he failed hiring a coach and picking a QB

that's two...the two most important decisions

Marcellus
04-29-2012, 10:40 AM
I was going to start a thread about this book, but I'll just link it here.

One of the first things he does is rip the Chiefs for thinking they can win games running the football and playing defense.

Mentions that we were the only team in the league to run the ball more than pass, even when we were losing.

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Plan-Approach-Decision-ebook/dp/B007SBHUHA/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335717301&sr=1-5

I will have to give that a read. Interesting.

We run the ball more than throw it, which means we don't trust the QB, yet don't replace the QB?

At some point they have to see the insanity in that right?

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 10:41 AM
he failed hiring a coach and picking a QB

that's two...the two most important decisions

Haley or Crennel?

As I already mentioned, erase those injuries and they win 10 and he's not fired.

the Talking Can
04-29-2012, 10:43 AM
Haley or Crennel?

As I already mentioned, erase those injuries and they win 10 and he's not fired.

and if my uncle had boobs....

pioli had to fire the coach he hired, mid-season....that's a gigantic failure

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 10:43 AM
Also, if you have a great QB, does it really matter who is HC?

See: Indianapoils Colts

BigRedChief
04-29-2012, 10:44 AM
Wasn't saying that at all.

Simply making a point that we had the services of those two players in 2010, and we were ass raped in our own building.

Curious as to what he thinks changed in one offseason that makes him think we would have won a playoff game.



I know and like BRC in "real life", but this quote sums up the fanbase.

We're not that far away due to the quality of the division.

Great, we win a weak division.

Then what?

Continue to settle for mediocrity, according to most.
I realize we don't see each other in person too often since I'm in Florida but as my fellow Chief fans that I watch games with will attest, I trash Cassell all game. He's just not the answer for a SB win.

I think we are a good QB away from having a "real" chance at a SB. The weak division gives us a chance until we get a good QB. I'm not satisified, just a realistic apprasil. I firmly believe we would have beat Pitt in a home playoff game last year, if we had won one more game.

Chiefshrink
04-29-2012, 10:59 AM
I don't understand those who don't like this draft because of the lack of instant starters. Who the hell are we going to bench? I think there are two places for rookies to start, NT and Guard.

DE? Nope, Dorsey and T-Jax are starters and former top 5 draft picks. Might not have lived up to their billing but there was nobody in this draft that would have started over them.

LB? I think Hali, Houston, and DJ have their spots cemented in the starting line up. There is a spot open at ILB but Belcher an Siler are not bad options. The only guy who would have started over them went in the top ten. Maybe Hightower would have been an upgrade but we would still have a gapping hole at NT

I could go on and on, but there were few people that we could have drafted that were going to make an instant impact on this team. Besides QB and NT, there were not many players who were going to get a chance to start for the Chiefs. Its not a bad problem to have.

You make waaaaaaaay too much sense INDEED !:thumb:

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 11:00 AM
Here are some props for Pioli.

http://www.tailwindcapitalgroup.com/images/prop_plane.jpg

Now leave, bitch.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 11:01 AM
I'd give this whole draft and next years first and second to have moved up for RG3 or given up what it takes to move up to 6 to draft Tannehill.

Also, I think it's hilarious that you guys clown Pioli for not getting a quarterback, but the same people that are doing that wanted nothing to do with Tannehill or Orton (except TTC who seemed ok with making a move for Tannehill iirc)

If we are to be fair, which quarterbacks would have made you guys feel better THAT WOULD HAVE GIVEN US MORE THAN STANZI?

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 11:03 AM
was he a colossal ridiculous bust? I don't see it yet, its definitely not fact at this point

LMAO

WTF

We just drafted guys to phase him out.

He's up there with Kris Wilson.

J Diddy
04-29-2012, 11:05 AM
LMAO

WTF

We just drafted guys to phase him out.

He's up there with Kris Wilson.

Is he supposed to hit them all?

I'll take what he's done with the draft over his predecessors save one, the 08 draft.

ChiefsNow
04-29-2012, 11:06 AM
Good Job Pioli. Keep it up.

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 11:07 AM
Good Job Pioli. Keep it up.

wish i had your patience. :thumb:

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 11:09 AM
I was going to start a thread about this book, but I'll just link it here.

One of the first things he does is rip the Chiefs for thinking they can win games running the football and playing defense.

Mentions that we were the only team in the league to run the ball more than pass, even when we were losing.

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Plan-Approach-Decision-ebook/dp/B007SBHUHA/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335717301&sr=1-5

Fuck it. Start the thread. I want to hear more.

Okie_Apparition
04-29-2012, 11:09 AM
But complaining makes me look tuff
moody, all sexy & everything like that

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 11:12 AM
But complaining makes me look tuff
moody, all sexy & everything like that

i know i complain a lot.
hell, i just wanna see the Chiefs get respectful again before i die.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 11:12 AM
By that logic, we never will win a playoff game.

As long as Cassel and Pioli are here, yeah.

O.city
04-29-2012, 11:13 AM
I like the kid as a person, but McCluster is basically done here. All signs point to the fact.


We drafted a third rb and a slot guy. Whats not to see?

ChiefsNow
04-29-2012, 11:14 AM
wish i had your patience. :thumb:

I can smell how close we are. Even if Stanzi could come to camp with the take charge attitude, we could have an exiting season. I don't think Cassel will be here much longer. Things may shake out this year.

Okie_Apparition
04-29-2012, 11:15 AM
The days of anger fucking a skank in a piss trough over Bono are gone

milkman
04-29-2012, 11:24 AM
I was going to start a thread about this book, but I'll just link it here.

One of the first things he does is rip the Chiefs for thinking they can win games running the football and playing defense.

Mentions that we were the only team in the league to run the ball more than pass, even when we were losing.

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Plan-Approach-Decision-ebook/dp/B007SBHUHA/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335717301&sr=1-5

The Texans ran the ball more than they passed it in 2011.

GoHuge
04-29-2012, 11:25 AM
Save everything you've all said over the last three days and look at it again in four years. Some are going to surprise, most will disappoint, but that's the nature of the draft. I don't really bother saying much about each guy we draft because we have no idea when/how/or if they are going to develop on the Sunday after the draft.

You all know this so why go batshit about it today? With the picks this regime had made along the O-line over the last 3 years (along with Winston) we could very well end up with a top-5 line very soon if not a top 3. I remember when (not long ago) the Chiefs were known as the best O-line in the NFL. A four year stretch in the 2000's and a huge part of the 90's. Those were some of the best Chiefs teams and I would love to get back to having even the national media talking about how good our line is. Unlike when we had the best O-line in the early 2000's we now have a defense that is extremely stout to go along with it and we won't have to score 40 points a game to win.

You can bitch about Cassel all you want, but it's not going to change anything for this year. He's going to have a well above average O-line protecting him which he's never had) with young and ascending players (except Lilja) and his supporting cast is very very good. He's got Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, Charles, Hillis, Boss, Moeaki, DMC, and we'll see if the rookie skill position players can show some flash.

If you have Manning or Brady you don't have to have as stout of an O-line as we are building, but we don't and it has been repeated time and again that this team wants to run the ball. There was nothing sexy about our first 3 draft picks, but they were our biggest positions of need. We had zero (quality) depth on the O-line and that was made very obvious with Richardson starting.

Poe is boom-or-bust and I don't think it's arguable, but if he works out it will make our very good defense even better because a dominant nose is the one piece this defense has lacked the most. We have some solid pieces on the D-line and will have to see if guys like Bailey can continue to get better. Our linebacking crew is excellent at three spots and we will see what a healthy Siler can bring to the table along with Belcher. Our secondary is a top-5 secondary with Berry back so I think we're going to be fine.

The QB position is our biggest issue/need/unknown. Which Cassel do we get? The 27-7 TD to INT Cassel or his normal 1/1 ratio? IDK, but in his 27 TD season the Chiefs were the number one rushing offense and did it with a much lesser O-line than what we will have this year and Charles was sharing the carries with broke dick TJ. I've got to believe (sure as hell hope) Baldwin can become a serious WR threat and the better our running game is it will only help him, Boss,TM, Bowe, DMC (used VERY sparingly), Breaston, etc. I think it's possible we will see Charles be better than he's ever been even if he's not 100% back yet because this will be by FAR the best line he has ever run behind..........that's not even debatable.

Other than Cassel still being the starter the Chiefs have upgraded or added quality depth at every position on offense the last 2 years. I don't think Cassel is a long term solution, but who was available this year that the Chiefs could have signed/drafted that was going to be able to step right in and take over and be better than Cassel? The best we could have done was draft a project or signed a lateral player. This team can win with Cassel at the QB if we stay relatively healthy, our O-line and running game are as stout as they should be, and our defense that is already top 10 makes another step up with Berry back and more experience under their belt. We just need Cassel to manage the game and not **** it all up with stupid decisions.........which has been shown to be a lot to ask for out of him. We look next year to try and somehow upgrade the QB position. Can't address everything in one off season.

Call me a homer or say I am delusional I don't care. I'm not saying we're a Super Bowl contender, but I will be extremely disappointed if we aren't in the playoffs as the AFC West Champs. I think we can do it even with Cassel at QB if he can just manage the game and not be a complete disaster. I don't think Manning and the Broncos are going to be nearly as good as everyone thinks they will be and I think we are a 10 plus win team if we stay relatively healthy. This roster can do it.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 11:26 AM
That book is talking about 2010.

Epic Fail 007
04-29-2012, 11:33 AM
Pioli doesn't deserve shit until he delivers a playoff win.

oh yes because we all know pioli plays on the field. you idiot.

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 11:35 AM
oh yes because we all know pioli plays on the field. you idiot.

LMAO Do you even get what the purpose of a GM is?

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 11:36 AM
oh yes because we all know pioli plays on the field. you idiot.

you're right, he don't play on the field but Matt Cassel does, and Pioli traded for him.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 11:36 AM
Cassel won't be this teams starter after the bye week.

Epic Fail 007
04-29-2012, 11:36 AM
The days of anger ****ing a skank in a piss trough over Bono are gone

hey bono was awesome. that 76 yd bootleg against arizona lol

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 11:37 AM
Cassel won't be this teams starter after the bye week.

why do you say that Boss?

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 11:38 AM
Cassel won't be this teams starter after the bye week.

Link, please. :)

milkman
04-29-2012, 11:40 AM
That book is talking about 2010.

Doesn't matter.

The Texans were a SB contending team until Shaub was lost to injury.

Teams can still, and will, compete by running the ball.

The only requirement is that a QB is still necessary to to the equation.

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 11:41 AM
The Texans ran the ball more than they passed it in 2011.

Typo on my part.

Should read, "Only team to run the ball more than pass when they were losing."

bevischief
04-29-2012, 11:41 AM
Pioli doesn't deserve shit until he delivers a playoff win.

A superbowl fixed.

tk13
04-29-2012, 11:44 AM
The Texans ran the ball more than they passed it in 2011.

So did the Niners.

milkman
04-29-2012, 11:44 AM
Typo on my part.

Should read, "Only team to run the ball more than pass when they were losing."

Which points to the fact that we are already well aware of.

This team can not compete with Matt Cassel at QB.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 11:44 AM
Look at the schedule.

Cassel is gonna need to play like he did in the middle if 2010 to keep his job.

Especially after Stanzi has another strong camp and preseason.

I fully expect a Bledsoe/Romo situation here next year where they back Cassel till the final moment when they pull him and the most logical point to do that is halftime of the game prior to the bye week and give the kid 2 weeks to prepare for a home game.

I've been saying that week would be the tipping point since days after we drafted RS.

Bowser
04-29-2012, 11:46 AM
Regarding Poe - My one hope is that when this guy is surrounded by legit NFL talent that his ability and potential that was shown at the combine will translate to the field. I'm going to guess his five win Memphis team didn't have a Derrick Johnson, Justin Houston, Eric Berry or Brandon Flowers. Hell, they probably didn't even have a Tyson Jackson.

Take the pressure off the kid and let him go play, then we'll see.

O.city
04-29-2012, 11:46 AM
I really feel like the Falcons are built pretty well to win in the playoffs. Well, before Turner has gotten worn down.



I want a qb that can make plays. I don't necessarily want him throwing it 40 times per game, but I want him to have the ability to do so if necessary.


We look at Brady and Manning, for example, and say that you can win without a running game. Yes, you can, but you can also have a Packers type hickup against the Gmen in the playoffs and get worn out by passrushers taht way. You also can't just run it as the Texans got beat because they couldn't throw it on the Ravens.


I think with a healthy Schaub, the Texans might have been the best team in the AFC last year. Actually, the Texans are a team I would like/hope the Chiefs were built like.

tk13
04-29-2012, 11:48 AM
Look at the schedule.

Cassel is gonna need to play like he did in the middle if 2010 to keep his job.

Especially after Stanzi has another strong camp and preseason.

I fully expect a Bledsoe/Romo situation here next year where they back Cassel till the final moment when they pull him and the most logical point to do that is halftime of the game prior to the bye week and give the kid 2 weeks to prepare for a home game.

I've been saying that week would be the tipping point since days after we drafted RS.

Romo sat for 3 years.

And you were one of the people banging on the drum most loudly that Stanzi was going to get in last year. I certainly don't recall anyone saying "Bye week 2012" after Stanzi was drafted.

Bowser
04-29-2012, 11:48 AM
Look at the schedule.

Cassel is gonna need to play like he did in the middle if 2010 to keep his job.

Especially after Stanzi has another strong camp and preseason.

I fully expect a Bledsoe/Romo situation here next year where they back Cassel till the final moment when they pull him and the most logical point to do that is halftime of the game prior to the bye week and give the kid 2 weeks to prepare for a home game.

I've been saying that week would be the tipping point since days after we drafted RS.

Hell, would ANY of us around here be suprised to see Quinn as the starter opening day? Even Stanzi for that matter?

Again, trying to find the silver lining, the one thing Cassel has going for him going into this year is he has full access to his coaches in Zorn and Daboll. Hopefully they can make chicken salad from chicken shit, and Cassel will resemble an actual playoff contending QB this year.

Fat Elvis
04-29-2012, 11:49 AM
The NFL draft is a lot like Christmas morning. There is a lot of anticipation leading up to the big day, and when the time finally arrives to see whatís under the tree for us we can sometimes be a little disappointed.

We all remember the Christmas that we got everything we wanted. For Chiefs fans that was last year. We got a QB, WR, DBs, and LBs. Heck we even liked the more practical gifts like a Rodney Hudson. Frankly, the 2011 draft gave us a lot to play with, and we used them.

After a big year like 2011, some of you seem down. Sure we got the big present we always talk about (NT), but itsí not as cool as we thought it would be. We also ended up with some more practical gifts than we expected.

Here is how I view this draft, and to be honest Iím pretty stoked about it.

After having a draft like we did in 2011 where we seemed to hit on almost every pick, it wasnít necessary for the Chiefs to snag additional pass rushers to sit behind guys like Hali and Houston. While we are still a little shallow when it comes to the safety position and could use some depth at center, the Chiefs are well positioned. In fact, I think the practicality of the 2012 Chiefs draft will allow them the flexibility in future drafts to aggressively seek out play makers to add to this team.

If there is one thing that I think Pioli deserves credit for, itís rebuilding the Chiefs offensive live. While Albert was already hear when he arrived, Pioli not only filled a glaring hole at RT when he signed Eric Winston, but his last three drafts has set the Chiefs on a course to maintain a quality offensive line for years to come.

Many on this board recoiled at any suggestion that the Chiefs should use their first round pick on a lineman. After all the heated debates about the value of DeCastro, Pioli seems to agree with those who donít want to invest first round picks on the line. Maybe instead of bitching that we didnít have the Steelersí draft, some of you should praise Pioli for doing exactly what you advocated for.

In the last three years, Pioli has taken four offensive linemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft. Asamoah and Hudson are now starters. Jeff Allen is going to push Ryan Lilja for a starting spot at guard, but is more likely to be seasoned for a year before finding a permanent home on the life. I know itís sometimes hard to get excited about the offensive line, but Pioli obviously has a process that seems to be working really well.

Picking back-to-back tackles isnít as exciting as drafting guys like Justin Houston or Javier Arenas, but it feeds a system that can produce quality linemen that allows the Chiefs not use first round picks on offensive tackles, guards, or centers. It also means that the Chiefs will not be forced to commit free agent dollars on those positions either.

We are lucky to have landed Winston this offseason. Without him there would probably be no Poe. I like how Pioli is building this team. While I continue to be frustrated about Cassel, finding a franchise QB is never easy. We have had three solid drafts under Pioli and we can already see the results. Yes we need to find a QB, but at least we are building a strong team while we continue to look for him.


7-9 in a division that takes 8-8 to win it! Woot!

The Chiefs even fail at being mediocre.

Bowser
04-29-2012, 11:49 AM
Scratch that Stanzi statement. I don't see him starting outside of injury fill in for this team next year.

suzzer99
04-29-2012, 11:50 AM
Save everything you've all said over the last three days and look at it again in four years. Some are going to surprise, most will disappoint, but that's the nature of the draft. I don't really bother saying much about each guy we draft because we have no idea when/how/or if they are going to develop on the Sunday after the draft.

This. I mean I know it's fun to arm-chair QB the draft and all. But I hope deep down most of us realize we have about 1/100th the information available to us as an NFL GM with a full scouting department. Obviously they can still get things very very wrong. But it's a pretty huge fallacy to think we could somehow make a better choice by anything but blind luck.

suzzer99
04-29-2012, 11:52 AM
I'm actually pretty excited about the idea of Poe/TJax and Dorsey collapsing the pocket with Hali and/or Houston coming off the edge. That has the potential to be a dominant pass rush. It's more the growing pains with Poe against the run I'm worried about.

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 11:57 AM
Here's a great blurb about the Chiefs from the book: (They take multiple shots at the organization throughout)

During the 2011 season, no NFL team ran the ball more when they didn't have the luxury of running than the Kansas City Chiefs. The Chiefs loved to run the ball. They ran when they were winning, they ran when they were losing, and they even ran the ball when they were down more than a touchdown.

Most successful teams have figured out that a passing offense is one of the keys to success in the NFL. But even the teams that haven't figured that out tend to pass the ball more when they are losing. Passing plays are more efficient to run when teams are losing because an incomplete pass stops the clock, thereby extending the game and increasing the team's chances of coming back. Passing play also generally result in more yards gained than running plays. Passing plays are three times as likely to result in a long gain, which teams need if they are down and need to score quickly. Because the cost of an interception is reduced if you are playing from behind, even the turnover considerations are reduced for passing in that case. It doesn't matter if you lose by 7 points, or throw an interception and lose by 14. Both are still a loss. For that reason, the cost of interceptions is reduced when playing from behind. Most teams understand the effectiveness of passing in order to attempt comebacks. Most teams not named the Chiefs.

The Chiefs also didn't have the luxury in 2011 of having a particularly good rushing offense. About a third of the time that they ran the ball while down a TD or more, they handed the ball to Thomas Jones, one of the league's worst running backs.

It's difficult to look a the Chiefs play calling when they were losing and think any other than that they had no interest in trying to win the game. The running plays that the Chiefs called when losing took an average of 30 seconds of game clock and gained an average of 4.5 yards. This is actualyl a high-water mark for the Chiefs, and is probably related to teams refusing to defend the run, because they knew the Chiefs were digging their own grave. By contrast, the Chiefs pass plays while down a TD or more averaged 7.5 yards and 20 seconds of game clock.

Despite the Chiefs' love of their run game, they would have been better off passing the ball if their goal was winning the game.

How is it that the Chiefs made decisions that cost them opportunities to win games and who was calling the plays that only lessened the chances of winning? If you think about it, it's striking that on such an elemental level of strategy, the Chiefs were that bad.

It goes on to talk about Muir and his age, and how ridiculous it was to hire someone that old who hadn't called plays in his career - Gruden called plays in Tampa.

Also talks about how ineffective NFL teams are at hiring personnel, how coaches over 51 years of age rapid decline cognitively, and how the NFL is drawing from an unnecessarily small talent pool.

It's an outstanding read, .99 on Kindle/iPad.

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 11:58 AM
Hell, would ANY of us around here be suprised to see Quinn as the starter opening day? Even Stanzi for that matter?

Again, trying to find the silver lining, the one thing Cassel has going for him going into this year is he has full access to his coaches in Zorn and Daboll. Hopefully they can make chicken salad from chicken shit, and Cassel will resemble an actual playoff contending QB this year.

I would actually be surprised to see Quinn start, but not surprised to see him beat Cassel out.

If Pioli has anything to do with it, Quinn will not start unless he CLEARLY beats Cassel, or if Cassel is injuried.

If its a close competition, Matt wins.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 11:59 AM
Here is just one of them from camp 2011...there are probably 25 more time that I likened the two situations.:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Competition for the starting quarterback job.

Kinda like 2006 with Bledsoe and Romo....when Romo took over around week 6...after Parcells said over and over "there is no QB competition."

"Romo eventually took over the starting quarterback role from Drew Bledsoe during half time against the New York Giants on October 23, 2006."

game 6

thanks for bringing Bledsoe back up.

Romo sat for 3 years.

And you were one of the people banging on the drum most loudly that Stanzi was going to get in last year. I certainly don't recall anyone saying "Bye week 2012" after Stanzi was drafted.

Also, I didn't even start my "Stanzi should start" thread till after Palko played one game.

I said over and over that Stanzi didn't know the playbook and shouldn't start (early on) because of that...the kid didn't even get a playbook till a day or two before camp opened because of the lockout.

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 12:00 PM
This. I mean I know it's fun to arm-chair QB the draft and all. But I hope deep down most of us realize we have about 1/100th the information available to us as an NFL GM with a full scouting department. Obviously they can still get things very very wrong. But it's a pretty huge fallacy to think we could somehow make a better choice by anything but blind luck.

You really should read the book I mentioned earlier.

Bowser
04-29-2012, 12:03 PM
Here's a great blurb about the Chiefs from the book: (They take multiple shots at the organization throughout)



It goes on to talk about Muir and his age, and how ridiculous it was to hire someone that old who hadn't called plays in his career - Gruden called plays in Tampa.

Also talks about how ineffective NFL teams are at hiring personnel, how coaches over 51 years of age rapid decline cognitively, and how the NFL is drawing from an unnecessarily small talent pool.

It's an outstanding read, .99 on Kindle/iPad.

Damn. Brutal.

milkman
04-29-2012, 12:04 PM
Here's a great blurb about the Chiefs from the book: (They take multiple shots at the organization throughout)



It goes on to talk about Muir and his age, and how ridiculous it was to hire someone that old who hadn't called plays in his career - Gruden called plays in Tampa.

Also talks about how ineffective NFL teams are at hiring personnel, how coaches over 51 years of age rapid decline cognitively, and how the NFL is drawing from an unnecessarily small talent pool.

It's an outstanding read, .99 on Kindle/iPad.

The thing is, his supposition is flawed.

I don't believe that the playcalling was the result of an old fucker who hadn't joined the 20th century.

The playcalling was dictated by the fact that there was a total lack of confidence in the passing game, more specifically, Matt Cassel and Tyler Palko.

I really don't believe there was another team who displayed that kind of lack of confidence in their QB.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 12:05 PM
I would actually be surprised to see Quinn start, but not surprised to see him beat Cassel out.

If Pioli has anything to do with it, Quinn will not start unless he CLEARLY beats Cassel, or if Cassel is injuried.

If its a close competition, Matt wins.

The problem is the competition isn't about who's better, it's about if Quinn can beat out Pioli's PERCEPTION of Matt Cassel.

There is zero reason not to start the season with Brady Quinn. It frustrates me that the Chiefs are probably going to start with Cassel, and then switch to Quinn when/if they realize he's not the guy.

I can understand if the Chiefs want a safe QB for game 1, so you don't signal to the fans that you're giving up. Quinn is safe enough, but at least offers you the opportunity to learn if he's the guy (probably not, but more upside than Cassel has). Then, if Quinn doesn't have us in the playoff hunt, you see what Stanzi gives you. That's not going to happen, but that's the way it should be.

If there's any silver lining to the Peyton signing in Denver, it's that the Broncos could run away with the division, which increases the chances that we'll see a QB besides Cassel sooner rather than later.

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 12:08 PM
The thing is, his supposition is flawed.

I don't believe that the playcalling was the result of an old fucker who hadn't joined the 20th century.

The playcalling was dictated by the fact that there was a total lack of confidence in the passing game, more specifically, Matt Cassel and Tyler Palko.

I really don't believe there was another team who displayed that kind of lack of confidence in their QB.

It's bad decision making regardless of the reason.

Bowser
04-29-2012, 12:10 PM
The thing is, his supposition is flawed.

I don't believe that the playcalling was the result of an old fucker who hadn't joined the 20th century.

The playcalling was dictated by the fact that there was a total lack of confidence in the passing game, more specifically, Matt Cassel and Tyler Palko.

I really don't believe there was another team who displayed that kind of lack of confidence in their QB.

Assuming that this is, in fact, true, then how and why in the fuck does this team keep hanging on with Cassel? You would think that if this is the way they really feel that they would jettison his ass yesterday.

Trivers
04-29-2012, 12:11 PM
This. I mean I know it's fun to arm-chair QB the draft and all. But I hope deep down most of us realize we have about 1/100th the information available to us as an NFL GM with a full scouting department. Obviously they can still get things very very wrong. But it's a pretty huge fallacy to think we could somehow make a better choice by anything but blind luck.


Careful. You are bringing logic into an emotion driven thread. :bravo:

milkman
04-29-2012, 12:12 PM
Assuming that this is, in fact, true, then how and why in the fuck does this team keep hanging on with Cassel? You would think that if this is the way they really feel that they would jettison his ass yesterday.

Pioli believes in Cassel.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 12:13 PM
Cassel is like the bosses son.

He can be the most worthless part of the company, but you just know that if you speak up about it that you could get fired...so you say nice things about him and ignore the fact that you wish he would jump off a bridge.

tk13
04-29-2012, 12:14 PM
Game strategy and talent evaluation are two completely different things. It's interesting in that we have the same people doing both sometimes.

There are certainly times where fans would've probably made a more logical game strategy decision than a coach. You see so many terrible time management moves and poor challenges, etc. And there are plenty of times where fans have no clue why a guy falls off the earth. Look at how so many people wanted Burfict in the 7th yesterday. But it's not like anyone here sat down and actually talked to the guy like NFL teams did though. If your job is on the line and you have some guy acting out of control and he tells you it's not his fault and it was just poor officiating, you probably aren't going to draft him either.

suzzer99
04-29-2012, 12:17 PM
You really should read the book I mentioned earlier.

I didn't see the name of the book anywhere.

Also just to be clear, I'm not saying you can't judge coaching decisions, especially with a full year or more of results, or draft decisions after a few years.

beach tribe
04-29-2012, 12:20 PM
You want to draft a WR in the 4th round? Fine. How about you draft a guy who's not a white brokedick piece of shit?


You sir, are a racist.

...but you already knew that.:D

Donger
04-29-2012, 12:22 PM
You want to draft a WR in the 4th round? Fine. How about you draft a guy who's not a white brokedick piece of shit?

Is that really part of your selection criteria?

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 12:30 PM
lets count all the things Pioli's done to deserve props.

1. Traded For Castle
2. Drafted T Jack
3. Hired Haley
4. Let Orton Walk (not a Franchise QB but better than anyone we have on the roster)
5. Drafted Poe when he should have worked a trade to at least get the third best QB in this years draft.

yeah Pioli deserves mucho props, if it wasnt form Herms great draft of 08 he would have been fired already.

1) We got Castle and Vrabel for a second round pick. BFD, it was worth a try.
2) No real comment on this one....
3) I kinda think he got thrown under the bus. I liked the try.
4) Who cares.
5)WOuldn't it be better to wait and see? I mean if Poe turns out to be beast you will be wrong on this one.


If that list of 5 things is the worst you can do, then you haven't really said much. This franchise was utter shit when Pioli took over. I personally like the way it seems to be going.

beach tribe
04-29-2012, 12:34 PM
Is that really part of your selection criteria?

Sure would be if we were playing basketball......amirite??

Donger
04-29-2012, 12:36 PM
Sure would be if we were playing basketball......amirite??

No.

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 12:36 PM
There is zero reason not to start the season with Brady Quinn.

Right....ZERO. That's why it will happen....Were you part of the same crowd begging for Croyle to start?

http://netanimations.net/Laughing-chimp-gif-animation.gif

saphojunkie
04-29-2012, 12:38 PM
lets count all the things Pioli's done to deserve props.

1. Traded For Castle
2. Drafted T Jack
3. Hired Haley
4. Let Orton Walk (not a Franchise QB but better than anyone we have on the roster)
5. Drafted Poe when he should have worked a trade to at least get the third best QB in this years draft.

yeah Pioli deserves mucho props, if it wasnt form Herms great draft of 08 he would have been fired already.

Let's count all the reasons Pioli sucks:

Scott Pioli inherited a 2-14 team stockpiled with some of the worst players in the NFL. In three seasons, he has rebuilt it into a perennial playoff contender. He hired Todd Haley, boo hoo. Todd Haley and his staff actually took players like Dwayne Bowe, Tamba Hali and Derrick Johnson and got them to reach their potential. Glenn Dorsey was a lost cause until Haley showed up and made him work off the gut.

When the relationship with Haley was unsalvageable, Pioli cut ties. He has drafted well, even when you don't like it. The only bad draft we've had with him has been the Tyson Jackson year, which was atrocious, but the guy had three months with the scouts to pick these guys. Scouts are out ALL year looking for the types of players you want. It was also an historically weak draft.

Pioli traded for Matt Cassel, yeah. And it was a great trade. We got Mike Vrabel, who was absolutely instrumental in our transition to the 3-4, and a starting quarterback for a second round pick.

Did Cassel have a pro bowl year? Where he threw 27 TD to 7 INT? Where he took us to the playoffs? Yes. Okay, then. I'll take that for a second round pick any time.

The fact that Cassel has proven, OVER TIME, to not be the answer at QB is in no way an indictment of Pioli. We didn't know he wasn't the answer! He sure as hell looked like it in 2010. But oh boy, now that we know, we sure are ready to put Pioli in the doghouse for bringing him in. Hindsight is 20/20, and you have lasers coming out of your eyes. Settle down.

Pioli is going to be around for a LONG TIME. And frankly, I couldn't be happier. To be a good team, you have to have consistency, and that includes the front office. This team was one blocked field goal away from the playoffs last year, and that's after losing Berry, Charles, Moeaki, firing the head coach and losing the starting QB, and without their #1 draft pick for several weeks. And against a first-place schedule.

This team is getting really good. Yes, we need a new QB, but did you really want Kirk freaking Cousins? Nick Foles? Come on, man. If we're taking a quarterback, it is going to be the best in the draft, not the seventh guy off the board with a noodle arm.

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 12:42 PM
Did Cassel have a pro bowl year? Where he threw 27 TD to 7 INT? Where he took us to the playoffs? Yes. Okay, then. I'll take that for a second round pick any time.





no offense but Pee Wee Herman could have played OB for the Chiefs and made the pro bowl with that schedule.

JoeyChuckles
04-29-2012, 12:42 PM
Like stage props?

Or mad props?

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 12:43 PM
Right....ZERO. That's why it will happen....Were you part of the same crowd begging for Croyle to start?

http://netanimations.net/Laughing-chimp-gif-animation.gif

You like Cassel. You have zero room to talk.

tk13
04-29-2012, 12:43 PM
I don't think Orton wanted to stay here. I don't know why, but he certainly has to know he'd have a better shot at playing as a backup in KC than Dallas. Orton didn't want to come to KC in the first place... he wanted to go to Chicago, and even put out a threat through the media to try and keep the Chiefs from claiming him. I don't blame Pioli for that one. You can't hold guys against their will.

Dave Lane
04-29-2012, 12:45 PM
This team is a lot better because he was here. It amazes me how critics will downplay the improvement a lot of players made under his watch. Maybe he wasn't the best long-term fit for a coach. But I'm very glad he was the coach for the time he was here.

I miss Haley already. Dude was great at motivating players in odd ways. Sometimes he pissed them off but sometimes they needed that.

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 12:46 PM
I don't think Orton wanted to stay here. I don't know why, but he certainly has to know he'd have a better shot at playing as a backup in KC than Dallas. Orton didn't want to come to KC in the first place... he wanted to go to Chicago, and even put out a threat through the media to try and keep the Chiefs from claiming him. I don't blame Pioli for that one. You can't hold guys against their will.

Maybe he's as dumb as Pioli and believes Matt is a good QB, thus giving him no shot at starting.

:)

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 12:48 PM
You like Cassel. You have zero room to talk.

You're the biased one. I don't give one fuck if Cassel loses his job. You are the biased one. You're just too stupid to understand that. If QUinn (or anyone else) takes his job, I'm fine with it.

But fuck you and anyone else who just wants to hand it to someone without a competition.

If anyone has no room to talk, it is people like you who try to shout down the voices of reason because logic hurts their tiny little brains.

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 12:49 PM
You're the biased one. I don't give one fuck if Cassel loses his job. You are the biased one. You're just too stupid to understand that. If QUinn (or anyone else) takes his job, I'm fine with it.

But fuck you and anyone else who just wants to hand it to someone without a competition.

If anyone has no room to talk, it is people like you who try to shout down the voices of reason because logic hurts their tiny little brains.

LMAO WTF are you talking about? Moron.

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 12:51 PM
no offense but Pee Wee Herman could have played OB for the Chiefs and made the pro bowl with that schedule.

That is the only come back you have for people proving your list was stupid?

Herp Durp

tk13
04-29-2012, 12:51 PM
Maybe he's as dumb as Pioli and believes Matt is a good QB, thus giving him no shot at starting.

:)

He didn't even try to find a starting job, or a place where he'd have a chance to start. He just went straight to Dallas and signed as a backup. Maybe he's happy holding a clipboard at this point.

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 12:52 PM
LMAO WTF are you talking about? Moron.

Sorry , I forgot your reading level was about 1st grade. Let me rephrase in a way you might understand.




NO U DONT TALK CUZ YOU ALRADY MAD UR MIND UP. PLUS I DONT GIVE ONE FUCK ABOUT CASSEL.

milkman
04-29-2012, 12:54 PM
Let's count all the reasons Pioli sucks:

Scott Pioli inherited a 2-14 team stockpiled with some of the worst players in the NFL. In three seasons, he has rebuilt it into a perennial playoff contender. He hired Todd Haley, boo hoo. Todd Haley and his staff actually took players like Dwayne Bowe, Tamba Hali and Derrick Johnson and got them to reach their potential. Glenn Dorsey was a lost cause until Haley showed up and made him work off the gut.

When the relationship with Haley was unsalvageable, Pioli cut ties. He has drafted well, even when you don't like it. The only bad draft we've had with him has been the Tyson Jackson year, which was atrocious, but the guy had three months with the scouts to pick these guys. Scouts are out ALL year looking for the types of players you want. It was also an historically weak draft.

Pioli traded for Matt Cassel, yeah. And it was a great trade. We got Mike Vrabel, who was absolutely instrumental in our transition to the 3-4, and a starting quarterback for a second round pick.

Did Cassel have a pro bowl year? Where he threw 27 TD to 7 INT? Where he took us to the playoffs? Yes. Okay, then. I'll take that for a second round pick any time.

The fact that Cassel has proven, OVER TIME, to not be the answer at QB is in no way an indictment of Pioli. We didn't know he wasn't the answer! He sure as hell looked like it in 2010. But oh boy, now that we know, we sure are ready to put Pioli in the doghouse for bringing him in. Hindsight is 20/20, and you have lasers coming out of your eyes. Settle down.

Pioli is going to be around for a LONG TIME. And frankly, I couldn't be happier. To be a good team, you have to have consistency, and that includes the front office. This team was one blocked field goal away from the playoffs last year, and that's after losing Berry, Charles, Moeaki, firing the head coach and losing the starting QB, and without their #1 draft pick for several weeks. And against a first-place schedule.

This team is getting really good. Yes, we need a new QB, but did you really want Kirk freaking Cousins? Nick Foles? Come on, man. If we're taking a quarterback, it is going to be the best in the draft, not the seventh guy off the board with a noodle arm.

Let's give Pioli the benefit of the doubt in this draft, because he has acces to these players that we don't.

But let's also forget that the one player that he had the most access to, by far, is his biggest whiff.

That about sum it up?

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 12:54 PM
Sorry , I forgot your reading level was about 1st grade. Let me rephrase in a way you might understand.




NO U DONT TALK CUZ YOU ALRADY MAD UR MIND UP. PLUS I DONT GIVE ONE FUCK ABOUT CASSEL.:LOL: more dumbassery from you.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 12:55 PM
You're the biased one. I don't give one **** if Cassel loses his job. You are the biased one. You're just too stupid to understand that. If QUinn (or anyone else) takes his job, I'm fine with it.

But **** you and anyone else who just wants to hand it to someone without a competition.

If anyone has no room to talk, it is people like you who try to shout down the voices of reason because logic hurts their tiny little brains.

Competition? Cassel's played his way out of the starting job for years. If anything, he's the one who has to prove that he deserves to keep it.

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 12:56 PM
Competition? Cassel's played his way out of the starting job for years. If anything, he's the one who has to prove that he deserves to keep it.

So last season you would've started who?

Big Chief Homer
04-29-2012, 12:58 PM
[QUOTE=saphojunkie;8580864]Let's count all the reasons Pioli sucks:



Pioli traded for Matt Cassel, yeah. And it was a great trade. We got Mike Vrabel, who was absolutely instrumental in our transition to the 3-4, and a starting quarterback for a second round pick.

Did Cassel have a pro bowl year? Where he threw 27 TD to 7 INT? Where he took us to the playoffs? Yes. Okay, then. I'll take that for a second round pick any time.

The fact that Cassel has proven, OVER TIME, to not be the answer at QB is in no way an indictment of Pioli. We didn't know he wasn't the answer! He sure as hell looked like it in 2010. But oh boy, now that we know, we sure are ready to put Pioli in the doghouse for bringing him in. Hindsight is 20/20, and you have lasers coming out of your eyes. Settle down.




I love how many times the Cassel apologists say he is a pro bowler and took us to the playoffs.

1- He was the 2nd alternate.The only reason he went to Hawaii is because Brady and I think Carson Palmer decided not to waste their time.

2- We got to the playoffs on the legs of Jamal Charles and the running game and the brain of Charlie Weiss. Not because of Matt Cassel.

3-The Cassel trade was not a good one.He is vastly overpaid for what he brings.He couldnt learn the verbage,cant read a defense and has a noodle arm.So yes Id rather have Cousins or Moore or anyone who actually played in college or high school.also,Vrable couldnt tackle a sack of peanuts.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 01:03 PM
Right....ZERO. That's why it will happen....Were you part of the same crowd begging for Croyle to start?

http://netanimations.net/Laughing-chimp-gif-animation.gif

Over Huard? Absolutely. Over Cassel? No.

But back then, we didn't know what Cassel had. We gave him a chance. He failed. He's not going to take us to the Super Bowl. If you know your QB has zero chance to take you to a Super Bowl and you have a guy on your bench who might still have a long shot chance to do it, then you take the chance on that guy.

And don't sell the bullshit that "you don't know if Cassel can make the SUper bowl because the season hasn't started yet." You'd have to be blinder than Stevie Wonder to not see that Cassel does not have a Super Bowl skill set.

milkman
04-29-2012, 01:04 PM
In 2010, Cassel had 27 TDs with 7 ints.

That's the number everyone points to prop him up.

But he passed for just over 200 yards per game, a number enhanced by a 469 garbage time yards in a blowout loss.

He completed less than 60% of his passes, and averaged fewer than 7 ypa, a number propped up by yac from his receivers.

And he only won one game against a playoff opponent, a 7-9 Seahawk team.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 01:05 PM
So last season you would've started who?

Cassel.

But I also would have actually made an effort to get somebody in the offseason. Something the Chiefs didn't do for 3 full seasons. Pioli's arrogance decided that the only competition for Cassel was a career third stringer and a 5th round rookie.

Trivers
04-29-2012, 01:06 PM
Let's count all the reasons Pioli sucks:

Scott Pioli inherited a 2-14 team stockpiled with some of the worst players in the NFL. In three seasons, he has rebuilt it into a perennial playoff contender. He hired Todd Haley, boo hoo. Todd Haley and his staff actually took players like Dwayne Bowe, Tamba Hali and Derrick Johnson and got them to reach their potential. Glenn Dorsey was a lost cause until Haley showed up and made him work off the gut.

When the relationship with Haley was unsalvageable, Pioli cut ties. He has drafted well, even when you don't like it. The only bad draft we've had with him has been the Tyson Jackson year, which was atrocious, but the guy had three months with the scouts to pick these guys. Scouts are out ALL year looking for the types of players you want. It was also an historically weak draft.

Pioli traded for Matt Cassel, yeah. And it was a great trade. We got Mike Vrabel, who was absolutely instrumental in our transition to the 3-4, and a starting quarterback for a second round pick.

Did Cassel have a pro bowl year? Where he threw 27 TD to 7 INT? Where he took us to the playoffs? Yes. Okay, then. I'll take that for a second round pick any time.

The fact that Cassel has proven, OVER TIME, to not be the answer at QB is in no way an indictment of Pioli. We didn't know he wasn't the answer! He sure as hell looked like it in 2010. But oh boy, now that we know, we sure are ready to put Pioli in the doghouse for bringing him in. Hindsight is 20/20, and you have lasers coming out of your eyes. Settle down.

Pioli is going to be around for a LONG TIME. And frankly, I couldn't be happier. To be a good team, you have to have consistency, and that includes the front office. This team was one blocked field goal away from the playoffs last year, and that's after losing Berry, Charles, Moeaki, firing the head coach and losing the starting QB, and without their #1 draft pick for several weeks. And against a first-place schedule.

This team is getting really good. Yes, we need a new QB, but did you really want Kirk freaking Cousins? Nick Foles? Come on, man. If we're taking a quarterback, it is going to be the best in the draft, not the seventh guy off the board with a noodle arm.

:hail: :bravo:

BossChief
04-29-2012, 01:11 PM
There is no question that he wasnt ready, but how much worse off could we possibly be right now if Stanzi was the starter over Cassel from the outset last year?

What has Cassel done that we wouldn't get from an average rookie?

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 01:13 PM
Cassel.

But I also would have actually made an effort to get somebody in the offseason.

Like who man? Where are these HoF franchise guys just falling out of trees?

Don't just say you wouldve got SOMEBODY. Say who and how.

Coogs
04-29-2012, 01:14 PM
In 2010, Cassel had 27 TDs with 7 ints.

That's the number everyone points to prop him up.

But he passed for just over 200 yards per game, a number enhanced by a 469 garbage time yards in a blowout loss.

He completed less than 60% of his passes, and averaged fewer than 7 ypa, a number propped up by yac from his receivers.

And he only won one game against a playoff opponent, a 7-9 Seahawk team.

And I would add to this... in all 10 of our wins that season, not once did we pass the ball more times than we ran it. Not once! That is kind of mind boggling in its own right.

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 01:18 PM
That is the only come back you have for people proving your list was stupid?

Herp Durp

that's your Opinion. LMAO

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 01:19 PM
Let's count all the reasons Pioli sucks:

Scott Pioli inherited a 2-14 team stockpiled with some of the worst players in the NFL. In three seasons, he has rebuilt it into a perennial playoff contender. He hired Todd Haley, boo hoo. Todd Haley and his staff actually took players like Dwayne Bowe, Tamba Hali and Derrick Johnson and got them to reach their potential. Glenn Dorsey was a lost cause until Haley showed up and made him work off the gut.
Agreed. People point out that Pioli didn't bring in a bunch of superstars on his own, but on a shoestring budget, he's managed to turn this team from one with tons of holes to a team that has only a few. And now is starting to add bench depth.

When the relationship with Haley was unsalvageable, Pioli cut ties. He has drafted well, even when you don't like it. The only bad draft we've had with him has been the Tyson Jackson year, which was atrocious, but the guy had three months with the scouts to pick these guys. Scouts are out ALL year looking for the types of players you want. It was also an historically weak draft.
The relationship was unsalvageable because Pioli purposely sabotaged the relationship. That's childish for a GM to do that. And frankly, I think it cost us the opportunity to hire good coaches in the offseason and I sure hope it doesn't affect our ability to hire Phil Emery's replacement. As for your second point, Pioli arrogantly froze out Peterson's scouts. Scouts drive your picks in the 3rd round and beyond. That was an absolutely arrogant move and it cost him--that second day of the draft was embarrassingly bad.

Pioli traded for Matt Cassel, yeah. And it was a great trade. We got Mike Vrabel, who was absolutely instrumental in our transition to the 3-4, and a starting quarterback for a second round pick.
50/50 on this one. I hate the trade now, but appreciate the aggressiveness to make it.

Did Cassel have a pro bowl year? Where he threw 27 TD to 7 INT? Where he took us to the playoffs? Yes. Okay, then. I'll take that for a second round pick any time.
If anything, it set us back by setting true fan expectations that Cassel was a franchise QB, even though any trained eye would tell you that any average QB should have been markedly better than Cassel given what he was given.

The fact that Cassel has proven, OVER TIME, to not be the answer at QB is in no way an indictment of Pioli. We didn't know he wasn't the answer! He sure as hell looked like it in 2010. But oh boy, now that we know, we sure are ready to put Pioli in the doghouse for bringing him in. Hindsight is 20/20, and you have lasers coming out of your eyes. Settle down.
I don't have a problem with trying out Cassel and giving him time to prove if he was/wasn't the answer. I can't stand the arrogance of the front office to not bring in competition year after year after year. After Cassel's rough 2009, we should have drafted a QB, even if only in the second or third round. We should have brought in a veteran QB. we didn't do any of those things. And it sure seems like it was arrogance to prove he was right on the trade more than anything.

Pioli is going to be around for a LONG TIME. And frankly, I couldn't be happier. To be a good team, you have to have consistency, and that includes the front office. This team was one blocked field goal away from the playoffs last year, and that's after losing Berry, Charles, Moeaki, firing the head coach and losing the starting QB, and without their #1 draft pick for several weeks. And against a first-place schedule.
He's a terrific personnel guy. But he has to learn lessons and we haven't seen proof that he will. He hires coaches only from his tree, while successful GMs are comfortable looking outside of it. He has shown no ability or urgency to fill the most important positions on the field... QB. He waited 4 years to show the urgency to fill the most important position on defense. He is sabotaging the good things he does with mind-numbingly bad decisions.

This team is getting really good. Yes, we need a new QB, but did you really want Kirk freaking Cousins? Nick Foles? Come on, man. If we're taking a quarterback, it is going to be the best in the draft, not the seventh guy off the board with a noodle arm.
It's been 3 years. 4 drafts. And the best we have to show for it at QB is a longshot veteran in Brady Quinn and a 5th round pick to be the future that Cassel is not.

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 01:23 PM
that's your Opinion. LMAO

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XVCtkzIXYzQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dayze
04-29-2012, 01:28 PM
I don't think Pioli deserves shit.
Call me when we win a playoff game at minimum. Otherwise everything is just BS and a waste of time.

I'll start getting excited when we win a playoff game.

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 01:30 PM
I'll start getting excited when we win a playoff game.

Start? I'll ****ing finish all over your mom's couch. It will be a joyous day.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 01:31 PM
Like who man? Where are these HoF franchise guys just falling out of trees?

Don't just say you wouldve got SOMEBODY. Say who and how.

Orton. That's easy, he was on our roster and he's better than Cassel if anything.
Drew Stanton
Matt Moore
Troy Smith
Dennis Dixon
Shaun Hill


We could have drafted Dalton, Skelton, McCoy, Mallett, Yates, Kafka, Osweiler.

Again, we're not talking about Quarterbacks who are necessarily franchise. We're talking about at least filling your pipeline with QBs who can compete for a starting job and maybe surprise somebody. None of those QBs would have costed anything. Maybe a few of them might have really shined in KC. But at least you made some effort instead of waiting three years.

Brady Quinn is a perfect example of a move they should have made years ago.

Dayze
04-29-2012, 01:31 PM
Lol Pawn

Thunder1boss
04-29-2012, 01:32 PM
If we're healthy, I think Cassel can manage the games without screwing it up...With talent around him....He can do it...the key is STAYING healthy. and even THIS time, we have some quality backups at skill positions!

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 01:33 PM
Let's count all the reasons Pioli sucks:

Scott Pioli inherited a 2-14 team stockpiled with some of the worst players in the NFL. In three seasons, he has rebuilt it into a perennial playoff contender.

:spock:

No reason to take this post seriously past this point.

aturnis
04-29-2012, 01:33 PM
There's 2 picks that I actually like in this draft.

Menzi and Gray.

Beyond that, the rest are guys that are head scratchers, at best.

I think Jeff Allen has potential, but keneche Osemele would have been a better pick.

Donald Stephenson has huge potential, but Bobbie Massie would have been a better pick for the immediate needs of this team.

Poe is a huge question mark.

I have a problem with statements like this. When the Talking heads make them during the draft and definitely from Milkman, who should know better.

Of course there were better guards on the board. Problem is, guys like Osemele and Cordy Glenn don't really fit our zone blocking system.

It's easy to say they should have taken a higher rated player at the same position, but it would have been the wrong move for the Chiefs.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 01:36 PM
If we're healthy, I think Cassel can manage the games without screwing it up...With talent around him....He can do it...the key is STAYING healthy. and even THIS time, we have some quality backups at skill positions!

The problem is that this team has become so good around him especially with Charles on offense that we pass "squeaking by" as being good, when in fact any average QB could come in and do Cassel's job a whole lot better. The defense is basically handing Cassel the keys to a productive season, and Cassel is doing everything he can to steer the car into the tree.

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Orton. That's easy, he was on our roster and he's better than Cassel if anything.


If he is so much better than Cassel why did he leave to go to Dallas where its 100% he will be a backup instead of staying in KC where he had a shot at becoming a starter?

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 01:40 PM
If he is so much better than Cassel why did he leave to go to Dallas where its 100% he will be a backup instead of staying in KC where he had a shot at becoming a starter?

Because Pioli is an arrogant, hypocritical cocksucker who lowballed Orton and claimed he wasn't worth the pittance it would have taken to secure him, while overpaying Cassel ill gotten Hunt gains.

milkman
04-29-2012, 01:41 PM
I have a problem with statements like this. When the Talking heads make them during the draft and definitely from Milkman, who should know better.

Of course there were better guards on the board. Problem is, guys like Osemele and Cordy Glenn don't really fit our zone blocking system.

It's easy to say they should have taken a higher rated player at the same position, but it would have been the wrong move for the Chiefs.

I understand that Osomele isn't a perfect fit for the zone blocking scheme, but neither is he incapable of playing in it.

And I like his power on the inside better against the better DTs that he'll be matched up against, especially in short yardage situations.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 01:43 PM
:spock:

No reason to take this post seriously past this point.

You dont think this team will be in the playoff hunt for the foreseeable future?

milkman
04-29-2012, 01:45 PM
You dont think this team will be in the playoff hunt for the foreseeable future?

Irrelevant.

ChiefsNow
04-29-2012, 01:47 PM
Maybe the best way to get the quarterback change is to get Pioli to think it was his idea.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 01:51 PM
You dont think this team will be in the playoff hunt for the foreseeable future?

It's dumb to assume we will after what has happened here.

We can't play the NFC West every year, nor count on facing 5 d-league quarterbacks in a single season.

Remember: We have the worst QB in the division. History is not on our side.

Pawnmower
04-29-2012, 01:58 PM
Because Pioli is an arrogant, hypocritical one who sucks the penis who lowballed Orton and claimed he wasn't worth the pittance it would have taken to secure him, while overpaying Cassel ill gotten Hunt gains.

Clay, You are the shakespeare of trolling. I love you.

Do you think Orton is a ton better than Quinn?

I really don't know shit about Brady Quinn

BossChief
04-29-2012, 01:58 PM
It's dumb to assume we will after what has happened here.

We can't play the NFC West every year, nor count on facing 5 d-league quarterbacks in a single season.

Remember: We have the worst QB in the division. History is not on our side.

If we play a hard schedule, so does the rest of the division. They cancel each other out for purposes of this topic.

While we do probably have the worst qb on paper, I believe we also have the most talent across the board in the division as well.

We should be a "perennial playoff contender" if that means we should be in the playoff hunt each year, despite the need for a quarterback.

milkman
04-29-2012, 02:00 PM
If we play a hard schedule, so does the rest of the division. They cancel each other out for purposes of this topic.

While we do probably have the worst qb on paper, I believe we also have the most talent across the board in the division as well.

We should be a "perennial playoff contender" if that means we should be in the playoff hunt each year, despite the need for a quarterback.

We should be, but at this point we aren't.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 02:00 PM
Clay, You are the shakespeare of trolling. I love you.

Do you think Orton is a ton better than Quinn?

I really don't know shit about Brady Quinn

Quinn = Palko with a stronger arm

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 02:02 PM
Quinn = Palko with a stronger arm

then we're screwed.

Blick
04-29-2012, 02:05 PM
Yeah, I took that comment as contending FOR the playoffs, not contending IN the playoffs.

We should absolutely be contending FOR a playoff spot every year.

Coogs
04-29-2012, 02:05 PM
Scott Pioli inherited a 2-14 team stockpiled with some of the worst players in the NFL. In three seasons, he has rebuilt it into a perennial playoff contender.

You can also build a pretty strong case that the best players on this team are still ones that were inherited from that 2-14 team too! Charles, Albert, and Bowe on the offense... Hali, DJ, Dorsey and Flowers on the defense... Colquitt as your punter.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 02:06 PM
We should be, but at this point we aren't.

How arent we?

We won the division in 2010 and were a game off of a repeat this year...if not for three crushing injuries early on, we repeat as division champs.

We have continued to build quality depth and adding quality starters via the draft and free agency and are a much better team than even the 2010 squad.

I think Pioli deserves the credit for a lot of that, just like he is due all of the blame for the way the quarterback position has been handled.

It's only fair.

J Diddy
04-29-2012, 02:08 PM
You can also build a pretty strong case that the best players on this team are still ones that were inherited from that 2-14 team too! Charles, Albert, and Bowe on the offense... Hali, DJ, Dorsey and Flowers on the defense... Colquitt as your punter.

and you can argue that without him Hali, Dj and Dorsey wouldn't be here. You could also argue that Bowe wouldn't be the player he is. To me Albert's still up in the air.

milkman
04-29-2012, 02:09 PM
How arent we?

We won the division in 2010 and were a game off of a repeat this year...if not for three crushing injuries early on, we repeat as division champs.

We have continued to build quality depth and adding quality starters via the draft and free agency and are a much better team than even the 2010 squad.

I think Pioli deserves the credit for a lot of that, just like he is due all of the blame for the way the quarterback position has been handled.

It's only fair.

Until we have more than one playoff appearence in years, we are not perennial playoff contenders.

This team has potential to be perennial playoff contenders, but we can not yet make that claim.

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 02:10 PM
Until we have more than one playoff appearence in years, we are not perennial playoff contenders.

This team has potential to be perennial playoff contenders, but we can not yet make that claim.
like someone else said, if we play the NFC West every season we could be.

Blick
04-29-2012, 02:11 PM
Remember: We have the worst QB in the division. History is not on our side.

Where did Cassel and Tebow rank in the division when they won it the last two years?

BossChief
04-29-2012, 02:14 PM
Until we have more than one playoff appearence in years, we are not perennial playoff contenders.

This team has potential to be perennial playoff contenders, but we can not yet make that claim.

Dude.

We almost beat Pittsburgh with Tyler Fucking Palko at quarterback and missing 3 of our best players.

The last two years, we have been "in the playoff hunt" and we are easily a better team in 2012.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:15 PM
We're better, and so are the Raiders and Broncos.

We'll finish 3rd or 4th.

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 02:17 PM
We're better, and so are the Raiders and Broncos.

We'll finish 3rd or 4th.

not sure about Raiders but i know for sure the Broncos are better.
Manning alone makes Broncos the favorite to win a weak division.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:18 PM
Where did Cassel and Tebow rank in the division when they won it the last two years?

Shut the fuck up, Blick.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:18 PM
not sure about Raiders but i know for sure the Broncos are better.
Manning alone makes Broncos the favorite to win a weak division.

Dude, the Raiders had scab QBs running their team half the season last year.

That's probably a 10-6 squad with a full season of Carson Palmer.

Baconeater
04-29-2012, 02:19 PM
LMAO Some of these posts are hilarious, talking about "contending" for a playoff spot as if it's some kind of accomplishment. Most teams aren't mathematically eliminated until the last couple weeks of the season.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:19 PM
Clay, You are the shakespeare of trolling. I love you.

Do you think Orton is a ton better than Quinn?

I really don't know shit about Brady Quinn

It's fucking night and day.

Orton is a HOFer compared to Quinn.

BoneKrusher
04-29-2012, 02:20 PM
Dude, the Raiders had scab QBs running their team half the season last year.

That's probably a 10-6 squad with a full season of Carson Palmer.

other than one good season in Cincy i've never been impressed with Carson Palmer.

milkman
04-29-2012, 02:20 PM
Dude.

We almost beat Pittsburgh with Tyler Fucking Palko at quarterback and missing 3 of our best players.

The last two years, we have been "in the playoff hunt" and we are easily a better team in 2012.

"Perennial" requires more than a year in the playoffs, followed by a year just missing them.

It requires a larger amount of time.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:21 PM
LMAO Some of these posts are hilarious, talking about "contending" for a playoff spot as if it's some kind of accomplishment. Most teams aren't mathematically eliminated until the last couple weeks of the season.

We've been "contending for a playoff spot" almost every year the last 20 years, save Haley's first year, Herm's last two seasons, Dick's first season. LMAO

7-9 baby, we're competing!!!

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:23 PM
Most teams aren't mathetmatically eliminated until Week 15 or 16.

Competing, baby.

philfree
04-29-2012, 02:24 PM
You can also build a pretty strong case that the best players on this team are still ones that were inherited from that 2-14 team too! Charles, Albert, and Bowe on the offense... Hali, DJ, Dorsey and Flowers on the defense... Colquitt as your punter.

Aren't those guys about the only old regime players left on the team?

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 02:24 PM
We've been "contending for a playoff spot" almost every year the last 20 years, save Haley's first year, Herm's last two seasons, Dick's first season. LMAO

7-9 baby, we're competing!!!

If this team wins a playoff game, people are going to act like we won the fucking Super Bowl. The bar has been set that low.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 02:28 PM
For the team to win 7 games on a tough schedule, while missing it's best player from both sides of the ball...that IS competing when you're still only one game from winning the division at the end.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:28 PM
If this team wins a playoff game, people are going to act like we won the fucking Super Bowl. The bar has been set that low.

I know I'm going to enjoy it. LMAO

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:29 PM
For the team to win 7 games on a tough schedule, while missing it's best player from both sides of the ball...that IS competing when you're still only one game from winning the division at the end.

I keep saying: we only won 7 games because we faced shitty QBs, not because the team was any good.

Boller
McNabb
Painter
Hanie
Tebow

And a gift against SD.

Coogs
04-29-2012, 02:29 PM
and you can argue that without him Hali, Dj and Dorsey wouldn't be here. You could also argue that Bowe wouldn't be the player he is. To me Albert's still up in the air.

Not sure how Pioli deserves any of the props for your arguement, and Bowe is probably on Haley.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 02:30 PM
If this team wins a playoff game, people are going to act like we won the fucking Super Bowl. The bar has been set that low.

If this team wins a playoff game while being comprised of mostly 25 and 26 year olds, it will be very exciting for that moment as well as the bright future of the team in general.

Coogs
04-29-2012, 02:31 PM
Aren't those guys about the only old regime players left on the team?

Probably.

Chocolate Hog
04-29-2012, 02:35 PM
7 wins and drafting a tackle who had 12 tackles in 1 season is a great job?

Hey Hoover how come you didn't mention firing the coach after only 3 seasons?

J Diddy
04-29-2012, 02:35 PM
Not sure how Pioli deserves any of the props for your arguement, and Bowe is probably on Haley.
I'm thinking if you blame Pioli for Haley's mistakes you should probably credit him for Haley's successes.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 02:36 PM
It's not a coincidence that Cassel and Cancer sound alike.

There has to be a nickname in there somewhere.

J Diddy
04-29-2012, 02:37 PM
It's not a coincidence that Cassel and Cancer sound alike.

There has to be a nickname in there somewhere.


Hmmm, is it also a coincidence that BossChiefs sounds like Floss teeth?

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 02:38 PM
If this team wins a <del>playoff game</del> Super Bowl while being comprised of mostly 25 and 26 year olds, it will be very exciting for that moment as well as the bright future of the team in general.

There's that bar being lowered again.

The elite teams expect to win playoff games. This fan base would throw a parade for one.

"If this team wins a playoff game..."

If Pioli is the genius some of you think he is, and this roster is as talented as some of you claim it is, we should be well past the "win a playoff game" mentality.

Instead, we've racked up 7 wins in 3 years and people would be satisfied with a fucking playoff win.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:40 PM
Don't forget how ill prepared this team was for Cassel's injury last season.

Has that changed?

Has Pioli learned jack shit?

Coogs
04-29-2012, 02:40 PM
I'm thinking if you blame Pioli for Haley's mistakes you should probably credit him for Haley's successes.

I'm not following you at all. Pioli has filled in the pieces around what he inherited, but bottom line, you can make the case that the best players on this team were indeed inherited. Charles, Bowe, Hali, DJ, and Flowers. And to a bit lesser extent Albert, Dorsey, and Colquitt.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 02:42 PM
There's that bar being lowered again.

The elite teams expect to win playoff games. This fan base would throw a parade for one.

"If this team wins a playoff game..."

If Pioli is the genius some of you think he is, and this roster is as talented as some of you claim it is, we should be well past the "win a playoff game" mentality.

Instead, we've racked up 7 wins in 3 years and people would be satisfied with a ****ing playoff win.

I thin the argument people are trying to make is that with a good QB, this team can compete for a Super Bowl. It shouldn't undermine the great work Pioli has done to build this roster, nor should it excuse Pioli for whiffing on the most important position in the game. The fact that we are winning as many games as we are with negative QB play speaks volumes about the strength of the supporting roster.

Chocolate Hog
04-29-2012, 02:42 PM
Don't forget how ill prepared this team was for Cassel's injury last season.

Has that changed?

Has Pioli learned jack shit?

Relax bruh. If Cassel goes we got Quinn and if Berry isn't healed we got a rookie CB to play safety.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 02:42 PM
If Pioli had hit on the Cassel trade, we would have ran away with the division the last two years.

Blick
04-29-2012, 02:43 PM
I keep saying: we only won 7 games because we faced shitty QBs, not because the team was any good.

Boller
McNabb
Painter
Hanie
Tebow

And a gift against SD.

The team wasn't any good, but that was due to injury problems. Would you say that when healthy, we aren't any good and can only beat shitty QB's?

Baconeater
04-29-2012, 02:43 PM
For the team to win 7 games on a tough schedule, while missing it's best player from both sides of the ball...that IS competing when you're still only one game from winning the division at the end.So we should give Pioli props for "competing" in a weak division in a league that is designed to be competitive?

Epic Fail 007
04-29-2012, 02:43 PM
poes a beast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHM-9EW7TQU

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 02:46 PM
Don't forget how ill prepared this team was for Cassel's injury last season.

Has that changed?

Has Pioli learned jack shit?

Yes, it absolutely has changed. We have a legit backup now, where last year we had two guys who weren't fit to be a #2 string. We started two scrub RBs, this year we actually have two solid RBs to back up Charles. In previous years, we were an ALbert injury away from going to a 4-man o-line, we actually have guys this year. We should probably feel better about our safety situation post-draft, but we still have an opportunity to maybe add a veteran safety in free agency. Pioli's learned a lot. We can only hope he'll learn at some point that this team only goes as the QB goes.

J Diddy
04-29-2012, 02:46 PM
I'm not following you at all. Pioli has filled in the pieces around what he inherited, but bottom line, you can make the case that the best players on this team were indeed inherited. Charles, Bowe, Hali, DJ, and Flowers. And to a bit lesser extent Albert, Dorsey, and Colquitt.

My point is that before Pioli, the majority of these players weren't doing anything. These players developed into good solid players. Although you can argue that they were on the roster, you can not argue that they are the same players.

ku_jhawk23
04-29-2012, 02:49 PM
Don't forget how ill prepared this team was for Cassel's injury last season.

Has that changed?

Has Pioli learned jack shit?

REALLY? The Colts went to 2 Superbowls and have had a great post season record. Where they ready for for Manning to get injured? Do you think Polian did a bad job?

I don't post much, but I've read your posts on several threads and realize that you are a moron.

How many teams do you think prepare for the starting QB to go down? When was the last time a starting QB went down and the team had a good backup to fill in......oh wait, it was the Patriots. Who was that backup?

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:51 PM
The team wasn't any good, but that was due to injury problems. Would you say that when healthy, we aren't any good and can only beat shitty QB's?

I dunno, we were healthy in 2010 and got our ass beat 30-7 by what was arguably a shitty Joe Flacco.

The offense was healthy in Week 1, minus Moeaki, and couldn't do shit against a sorry Bills defense.

Injuries are a lame excuse, especially when your GM has Tyler Palko waiting in the wings.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 02:51 PM
So we should give Pioli props for "competing" in a weak division in a league that is designed to be competitive?

I think it's fair to say the if we had just Charles out of the "crippled three" that we would have won two more games.

Berry probably makes the difference in another.

Peyton Manning really fucked up.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 02:54 PM
I dunno, we were healthy in 2010 and got our ass beat 30-7 by what was arguably a shitty Joe Flacco.

The offense was healthy in Week 1, minus Moeaki, and couldn't do shit against a sorry Bills defense.

Injuries are a lame excuse, especially when your GM has Tyler Palko waiting in the wings.

In all these situations, you can blame the majority of the problems on a shitty QB. Especially the Tyler Palko era and especially the Baltimore playoff game.

-King-
04-29-2012, 02:55 PM
I think it's fair to say the if we had just Charles out of the "crippled three" that we would have won two more games.

Berry probably makes the difference in another.

Peyton Manning really fucked up.

He doesn't care about winning. If he did he would be a 49er or a Chief right now.
Posted via Mobile Device

philfree
04-29-2012, 02:56 PM
I'm not following you at all. Pioli has filled in the pieces around what he inherited, but bottom line, you can make the case that the best players on this team were indeed inherited. Charles, Bowe, Hali, DJ, and Flowers. And to a bit lesser extent Albert, Dorsey, and Colquitt.

Up till now but while you could say the best players were from Peterson's era that may change this year to an extent. Arenas, Berry, Houston, Lewis, Hudson, Winston, Moeoki, Baldwin and ect. These guys have questions to answer but that's alot of talent.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:57 PM
How many teams do you think prepare for the starting QB to go down?

Why don't you go do some fucking research on the 1993 Dallas Cowboys, or the 1990 New York Giants, who both had their starting quarterbacks go down at key moments and still won the Super Bowl.

Hostetler took over for Simms, and Kosar only played in a few games for Aikman, but the Cowboys won their division by ONE game, and if Kosar hadn't won a game during the regular season, the Cowboys would have been a wild card instead of the #1 seed.

Do I even need to bring up Rich Gannon?

Having a viable backup quarterback is an important part of any team that's competing for a championship.

ku_jhawk23
04-29-2012, 02:59 PM
I dunno, we were healthy in 2010 and got our ass beat 30-7 by what was arguably a shitty Joe Flacco.

The offense was healthy in Week 1, minus Moeaki, and couldn't do shit against a sorry Bills defense.

Injuries are a lame excuse, especially when your GM has Tyler Palko waiting in the wings.

So the Ravens D had nothing to do with that game????

And Haley's shitty plan to start the season had nothing to do with the Bills game? It was all Pioli?

The GM had Palko in waiting because his coach insisted on it....Palko was 100% Haley. Sometimes a GM has to allow their coach some decisions. The GM went into the season planning on the starting QB making it through the year....just like every other GM assumes.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 02:59 PM
In all these situations, you can blame the majority of the problems on a shitty QB. Especially the Tyler Palko era and especially the Baltimore playoff game.

So?

We still have a shitty QB.

That's the whole fucking reason I think we're going to get our asses beat against real football teams with real QBs this year.

Coogs
04-29-2012, 03:00 PM
Up till now but while you could say the best players were from Peterson's era that may change this year to an extent. Arenas, Berry, Houston, Lewis, Hudson, Winston, Moeoki, Baldwin and ect. These guys have questions to answer but that's alot of talent.

Oh, I agree totally. And they should start to take over if we are going to contend year in and year out. And if he hit on Stanzi, then I will most definately give him his due credit!

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 03:01 PM
There's that bar being lowered again.

The elite teams expect to win playoff games. This fan base would throw a parade for one.

"If this team wins a playoff game..."

If Pioli is the genius some of you think he is, and this roster is as talented as some of you claim it is, we should be well past the "win a playoff game" mentality.

Instead, we've racked up 7 wins in 3 years and people would be satisfied with a fucking playoff win.

This is dumb. Good teams expect to win because they are fucking good.

Any fan of a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in nearly 2 decades act the same.

If Pittsburgh was on the same futility streak they'd act the same way.

Getting excited over a playoff win isn't being satisfied, its being happy we were finally thrown a bone.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 03:01 PM
The GM went into the season planning on the starting QB making it through the year....just like every other GM assumes.

What? That's fucking stupid. It's fucking lunacy for a team to go into the year with no suitable backup QB. Why the fuck do you think the 49ers went and got Steve Young even when they had Joe Montana?

ku_jhawk23
04-29-2012, 03:01 PM
Why don't you go do some ****ing research on the 1993 Dallas Cowboys, or the 1990 New York Giants, who both had their starting quarterbacks go down at key moments and still won the Super Bowl.

Hostetler took over for Simms, and Kosar only played in a few games for Aikman, but the Cowboys won their division by ONE game, and if Kosar hadn't won a game during the regular season, the Cowboys would have been a wild card instead of the #1 seed.

Do I even need to bring up Rich Gannon?

Having a viable backup quarterback is an important part of any team that's competing for a championship.

I've done plenty of reasearch dumbass....Neither of those teams did what they did because of their backup. They did so because of the supporting cast. That is what Pioli is building. Pioli came to KC with the worst foundation possible. It isnt built in a year.

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 03:02 PM
So?

We still have a shitty QB.

That's the whole ****ing reason I think we're going to get our asses beat against real football teams with real QBs this year.

I think Cassel has proven that with a good supporting cast, he can play the "don't fuck up" game against bad teams. And there will be a few games here and there against average teams where he'll play well enough not to lose. I think this team is talented enough to support Cassel to a 6-7 win season against a good schedule. Not that we should be happy about that.

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 03:02 PM
This is dumb. Good teams expect to win because they are fucking good.

According to some, Pioli has constructed a Super Bowl-caliber roster.

So are we good, or not?

What's dumb is making excuse after excuse for winning 21 games in 3 years.

ku_jhawk23
04-29-2012, 03:03 PM
What? That's ****ing stupid. It's ****ing lunacy for a team to go into the year with no suitable backup QB. Why the **** do you think the 49ers went and got Steve Young even when they had Joe Montana?

cherry picking luck is great.....I can name many more good teams that faltered with a below average backup than you can name teams that thrived with a backup.

BossChief
04-29-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm not following you at all. Pioli has filled in the pieces around what he inherited, but bottom line, you can make the case that the best players on this team were indeed inherited. Charles, Bowe, Hali, DJ, and Flowers. And to a bit lesser extent Albert, Dorsey, and Colquitt.

One could follow that up easily with

"DJ, Dorsey and Hali weren't very good. Piolis coaches turned things around for them.

Thanks Herm for Charles, Bowe and Flowers."

chiefzilla1501
04-29-2012, 03:06 PM
According to some, Pioli has constructed a Super Bowl-caliber roster.

So are we good, or not?

What's dumb is making excuse after excuse for winning 21 games in 3 years.

We are good.

Except for the QB. And that one miss is enough to turn us from a Super Bowl calibre team to a 6-8 win team.

So no, we don't have a Super Bowl calibre roster. But one move changes that.

patteeu
04-29-2012, 03:06 PM
This is as good a thread as any to post this.

I'm listening to the PFW podcast, a NE Patriots' focused web radio program, done on the third day of the draft. They're really upset with the Patriots' 2nd round pick, Travis Wilson (multipurpose DB from Illinois). Apparently this was way before the draft prognosticators predicted he'd be taken. The interesting part of it is that they're saying that if Belichick wanted a flexible DB, he should have taken Alabama's DeQuan Menzie (the guy the Chiefs got in round 5) with that pick.

They went on to talk about guys they might like to see NE take in the later rounds. They didn't mention too many (maybe 8 guys or so), but they mentioned both Devon Wylie (Chiefs 4th round pick) and Cyrus Gray (Chiefs 6th round pick).

FWIW

ku_jhawk23
04-29-2012, 03:08 PM
This is as good a thread as any to post this.

I'm listening to the PFW podcast, a NE Patriots' focused web radio program, done on the third day of the draft. They're really upset with the Patriots' 2nd round pick, Travis Wilson (multipurpose DB from Illinois). Apparently this was way before the draft prognosticators predicted he'd be taken. The interesting part of it is that they're saying that if Belichick wanted a flexible DB, he should have taken Alabama's DeQuan Menzie (the guy the Chiefs got in round 5) with that pick.

They went on to talk about guys they might like to see NE take in the later rounds. They didn't mention too many (maybe 8 guys or so), but they mentioned both Devon Wylie (Chiefs 4th round pick) and Cyrus Gray (Chiefs 6th round pick).

FWIW

You are not allowed to bring sanity to a CP thread

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 03:08 PM
Even Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards had the sense to go get a guy like Damon Huard.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 03:10 PM
I've done plenty of reasearch dumbass....Neither of those teams did what they did because of their backup.

You are an idiot. A Tyler Palko-level QB wasn't going to do what Hostetler did that year for NY. Bernie Kosar was a very good QB, and Jimmy Johnson went on to write about what a huge part of their SB team he was that year.

Those teams were prepared in the event of a disaster.

Last year the Chiefs were woefully unprepared and unless Ricky Stanzi magically is amazing or Brady Quinn starts shitting tiffany cufflinks, we are fucked again.

ku_jhawk23
04-29-2012, 03:10 PM
Even Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards had the sense to go get a guy like Damon Huard.

Really? Damon Huard? Huard was a POS. I suppose like Thigpen too. Of course, Huard couldn't catch on any other team. My dog leaves Huards in my back yard every day. Sometimes, the W/L isn't because of the QB.

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 03:11 PM
This is as good a thread as any to post this.

I'm listening to the PFW podcast, a NE Patriots' focused web radio program, done on the third day of the draft. They're really upset with the Patriots' 2nd round pick, Travis Wilson (multipurpose DB from Illinois). Apparently this was way before the draft prognosticators predicted he'd be taken. The interesting part of it is that they're saying that if Belichick wanted a flexible DB, he should have taken Alabama's DeQuan Menzie (the guy the Chiefs got in round 5) with that pick.

They went on to talk about guys they might like to see NE take in the later rounds. They didn't mention too many (maybe 8 guys or so), but they mentioned both Devon Wylie (Chiefs 4th round pick) and Cyrus Gray (Chiefs 6th round pick).

FWIW

They're right on Menzie and Gray, IMO.

No shock that almost everyone here agrees, those were our two best picks.

BigMeatballDave
04-29-2012, 03:11 PM
According to some, Pioli has constructed a Super Bowl-caliber roster.

So are we good, or not?

What's dumb is making excuse after excuse for winning 21 games in 3 years.

We do have SB roster, minus a QB.

I'm not making excuses.

I just don't see winning a playoff game as being Satisfied, like you said.

I'd be thrilled. Baby steps.

patteeu
04-29-2012, 03:11 PM
This is as good a thread as any to post this.

I'm listening to the PFW podcast, a NE Patriots' focused web radio program, done on the third day of the draft. They're really upset with the Patriots' 2nd round pick, Travis Wilson (multipurpose DB from Illinois). Apparently this was way before the draft prognosticators predicted he'd be taken. The interesting part of it is that they're saying that if Belichick wanted a flexible DB, he should have taken Alabama's DeQuan Menzie (the guy the Chiefs got in round 5) with that pick.

They went on to talk about guys they might like to see NE take in the later rounds. They didn't mention too many (maybe 8 guys or so), but they mentioned both Devon Wylie (Chiefs 4th round pick) and Cyrus Gray (Chiefs 6th round pick).

FWIW

I just got to the part where the Chiefs take DeQuan Menzie and one of the guys says in a kind of whiny voice "They're taking all our players! Devin Wylie, DeQuan Menzie..." Haha

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 03:11 PM
I think Cassel has proven that with a good supporting cast, he can play the "don't fuck up" game against bad teams. And there will be a few games here and there against average teams where he'll play well enough not to lose. I think this team is talented enough to support Cassel to a 6-7 win season against a good schedule. Not that we should be happy about that.

That's exactly how I feel.

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 03:12 PM
We do have SB roster, minus a QB.

I'm not making excuses.

I just don't see winning a playoff game as being Satisfied, like you said.

I'd be thrilled. Baby steps.

Missed a great chance to use "It's a process."

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 03:12 PM
Really? Damon Huard? Huard was a POS. I suppose like Thigpen too. Of course, Huard couldn't catch on any other team. My dog leaves Huards in my back yard every day. Sometimes, the W/L isn't because of the QB.

The reason the 06 Chiefs were in the playoffs was because Huard was a competent backup QB.

He had a 100 QB rating FFS.

OnTheWarpath58
04-29-2012, 03:13 PM
The reason the 06 Chiefs were in the playoffs was because Huard was a competent backup QB.

He had a 100 QB rating FFS.

Why are you arguing with this moron?

ChiefsNow
04-29-2012, 03:15 PM
Seems like the chiefs and patriots scouts carpool.

Count Zarth
04-29-2012, 03:15 PM
I enjoy clubbing baby seals with logic clubs.