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View Full Version : Chiefs Who was "the Steal of the Draft?"


Frankie
04-30-2012, 07:34 AM
What player did you have an eye on that went way lower than your expectation? Why?

Chiefnj2
04-30-2012, 07:38 AM
Polk and Minnifield going undrafted. Someone will get good value if they sign them as an UDFA.

suds79
04-30-2012, 07:40 AM
Surprised Lamar Miller & Alameda Ta'amu fell to the 4th.

the Talking Can
04-30-2012, 07:41 AM
last year it was houston in the 3rd

not sure this year

DaKCMan AP
04-30-2012, 07:54 AM
I still think Tauren Poole will be productive for whatever team signs him, like I did with Arian Foster.

I also really like Jayron Hosley at the end of the 3rd to the Giants, Brandon Boykin in the 4th to the Eagles, and Bobby Massie in the 4th to the Cards.

FD
04-30-2012, 08:02 AM
Ask me again in 4-5 years.

Jewish Rabbi
04-30-2012, 08:04 AM
Poe

tredadda
04-30-2012, 08:08 AM
Who was that punter Jax took in round 3?

Chiefnj2
04-30-2012, 08:19 AM
The steal of the draft - the Redskins and Robert Griffin.

Chief fans are sitting around wondering whether their will be an open competition between Cassel, Quinn and Stanzi. Three months ago their was debate whether the team would pursue Orton. Really? Cassel, Quinn, Stanzi and Orton? That's the best Chief fans can hope for? An open competition between below average career QBs?

All I keep reading about is how KC is never going to finish dead last or with one or two wins, and how they'll never be in position to grab a top QB. Never suck enough for a shot at someone like Stafford. Never suck enough for an elite QB.

Well, this year KC had its chance. The 2nd pick of the draft was open to EVERYONE. Teams were guaranteed not just a chance at, but had a 100% guarantee at taking a consensus blue chip QB prospect. Great arm, great athleticism, no off field concerns, led his team to many victories, played well in big games, accurate, etc. The pick was up for grabs. No more excuses for not having a QB in a pass driven league.

Pioli and Hunt let it slip away. They'd rather use the first round pick on a pure boom/bust prospect and spend the rest of the draft on depth. All the while, the team desperately needs a franchise QB. Pioli gets an F from me on this years draft for not taking that chance, and I look forward to reading next April which average veteran QB will be competing against Cassel, Quinn and Stanzi.

BoneKrusher
04-30-2012, 08:22 AM
Today RG3.

three years from now that might look a bit different, we shall see.

OmahaChief
04-30-2012, 08:40 AM
I really liked Lamar Miller in the fourth. I think concerns about his shoulder dropped him becuase I watched a lot of Miami games and the kid is insanely good when completely healthy.

donkhater
04-30-2012, 09:44 AM
The steal of the draft - the Redskins and Robert Griffin.

Chief fans are sitting around wondering whether their will be an open competition between Cassel, Quinn and Stanzi. Three months ago their was debate whether the team would pursue Orton. Really? Cassel, Quinn, Stanzi and Orton? That's the best Chief fans can hope for? An open competition between below average career QBs?

All I keep reading about is how KC is never going to finish dead last or with one or two wins, and how they'll never be in position to grab a top QB. Never suck enough for a shot at someone like Stafford. Never suck enough for an elite QB.

Well, this year KC had its chance. The 2nd pick of the draft was open to EVERYONE. Teams were guaranteed not just a chance at, but had a 100% guarantee at taking a consensus blue chip QB prospect. Great arm, great athleticism, no off field concerns, led his team to many victories, played well in big games, accurate, etc. The pick was up for grabs. No more excuses for not having a QB in a pass driven league.

Pioli and Hunt let it slip away. They'd rather use the first round pick on a pure boom/bust prospect and spend the rest of the draft on depth. All the while, the team desperately needs a franchise QB. Pioli gets an F from me on this years draft for not taking that chance, and I look forward to reading next April which average veteran QB will be competing against Cassel, Quinn and Stanzi.

We'll never know if those discussions took place. Personally, if they didn't offer at least 2 first round draft picks, a second rounder and Dwayne Bowe then they dropped the ball.

Direckshun
04-30-2012, 09:46 AM
I gotta say, I think Chapman going in the 5th round to the Colts, who probably need a NT more than any other team in the league, was the best deal.

DJ's left nut
04-30-2012, 09:56 AM
Yup - Chapman in the 5th was robbery.

Dennard in the seventh was right behind it.

Plenty of steals in this draft. That's what happens when teams like the Chiefs reach for every single pick they make through the first 5 rounds.

ForeverChiefs58
04-30-2012, 09:59 AM
I gotta say, I think Chapman going in the 5th round to the Colts, who probably need a NT more than any other team in the league, was the best deal.

I was actually hoping the Chiefs would add him as insurance/to help push Poe. He is a tough SOB.

Thig Lyfe
04-30-2012, 10:01 AM
POE LOL

Fat Elvis
04-30-2012, 10:03 AM
The steal of the draft - the Redskins and Robert Griffin.

Chief fans are sitting around wondering whether their will be an open competition between Cassel, Quinn and Stanzi. Three months ago their was debate whether the team would pursue Orton. Really? Cassel, Quinn, Stanzi and Orton? That's the best Chief fans can hope for? An open competition between below average career QBs?

All I keep reading about is how KC is never going to finish dead last or with one or two wins, and how they'll never be in position to grab a top QB. Never suck enough for a shot at someone like Stafford. Never suck enough for an elite QB.

Well, this year KC had its chance. The 2nd pick of the draft was open to EVERYONE. Teams were guaranteed not just a chance at, but had a 100% guarantee at taking a consensus blue chip QB prospect. Great arm, great athleticism, no off field concerns, led his team to many victories, played well in big games, accurate, etc. The pick was up for grabs. No more excuses for not having a QB in a pass driven league.

Pioli and Hunt let it slip away. They'd rather use the first round pick on a pure boom/bust prospect and spend the rest of the draft on depth. All the while, the team desperately needs a franchise QB. Pioli gets an F from me on this years draft for not taking that chance, and I look forward to reading next April which average veteran QB will be competing against Cassel, Quinn and Stanzi.

I agree with this 100%.

htismaqe
04-30-2012, 10:04 AM
Yup - Chapman in the 5th was robbery.

Dennard in the seventh was right behind it.

Plenty of steals in this draft. That's what happens when teams like the Chiefs reach for every single pick they make through the first 5 rounds.

I dunno. At least there was a reason to explain Dennard's fall.

No reason for Chapman to fall that far unless I missed something.

Fat Elvis
04-30-2012, 10:07 AM
I was actually hoping the Chiefs would add him as insurance/to help push Poe. He is a tough SOB.

I was hoping the Chiefs would add Ta'amu in the 4th as insurance--that or use him as a traditional NT and move Poe out to DE with his athleticism.

I drooled at the thought of Poe, Ta'amu and Jackson on running downs and Bailey, Powe and Poe on passing downs.....

DJ's left nut
04-30-2012, 10:08 AM
I agree with this 100%.

Except that "the first round pick" would've actually been three first round picks, plus even more as the Rams would've had to fall back further than the 6 spot had they dealt with us.

The Skins paid dearly for the right to move up. In the end, it may be worth it. But giving up 3 first rounders plus a couple of 2nd rounders for 1 player cannot be considered a 'steal'.

rageeumr
04-30-2012, 10:14 AM
Kirk Cousins /CP

-King-
04-30-2012, 10:17 AM
The steal of the draft - the Redskins and Robert Griffin.

Chief fans are sitting around wondering whether their will be an open competition between Cassel, Quinn and Stanzi. Three months ago their was debate whether the team would pursue Orton. Really? Cassel, Quinn, Stanzi and Orton? That's the best Chief fans can hope for? An open competition between below average career QBs?

All I keep reading about is how KC is never going to finish dead last or with one or two wins, and how they'll never be in position to grab a top QB. Never suck enough for a shot at someone like Stafford. Never suck enough for an elite QB.

Well, this year KC had its chance. The 2nd pick of the draft was open to EVERYONE. Teams were guaranteed not just a chance at, but had a 100% guarantee at taking a consensus blue chip QB prospect. Great arm, great athleticism, no off field concerns, led his team to many victories, played well in big games, accurate, etc. The pick was up for grabs. No more excuses for not having a QB in a pass driven league.

Pioli and Hunt let it slip away. They'd rather use the first round pick on a pure boom/bust prospect and spend the rest of the draft on depth. All the while, the team desperately needs a franchise QB. Pioli gets an F from me on this years draft for not taking that chance, and I look forward to reading next April which average veteran QB will be competing against Cassel, Quinn and Stanzi.

ROFL This site never ceases to entertain.
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suds79
04-30-2012, 10:17 AM
I was hoping the Chiefs would add Ta'amu in the 4th as insurance--that or use him as a traditional NT and move Poe out to DE with his athleticism.

I drooled at the thought of Poe, Ta'amu and Jackson on running downs and Bailey, Powe and Poe on passing downs.....

Hard to understand how you'd rather have a backup swing Tackle, who might not ever play without an injury vs Ta'amu to rotate in & out with Poe at the NT spot.

Hedging our bets would have been wise IMO.

Pestilence
04-30-2012, 10:19 AM
George Iloka in the 6th to the Bengals.

buddha
04-30-2012, 10:20 AM
I think Menzie went very late given his skill and production level. Kid can ball.

RustShack
04-30-2012, 10:22 AM
Wasn't there a stat a few years back where most QB's who declare early are busts? Also another one where one year wonders are usually busts too?

As for steal, CB Leonard Johnson undrafted to the Bucs.

DJ's left nut
04-30-2012, 10:24 AM
George Iloka in the 6th to the Bengals.

The Bengals raped this draft. Just absolutely crushed it.

I don't think they made a single pick that I'd grade below a B+. Just a fantastic job by those guys.

DaKCMan AP
04-30-2012, 10:27 AM
The Bengals raped this draft. Just absolutely crushed it.

I don't think they made a single pick that I'd grade below a B+. Just a fantastic job by those guys.

Bengals & Eagles killed it.

Bump
04-30-2012, 10:34 AM
Andrew Luck

tk13
04-30-2012, 11:05 AM
Everybody kind of picks the same 5-6 guys who fall down the board. As for our division... I have to say I really like the SDSU RB Denver picked up. Dont think I've seen him mentioned anywhere... but he's definitely a guy with big play ability. John Fox will probably get his money's worth out of him.
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Frankie
04-30-2012, 11:10 AM
Except that "the first round pick" would've actually been three first round picks, plus even more as the Rams would've had to fall back further than the 6 spot had they dealt with us.

The Skins paid dearly for the right to move up. In the end, it may be worth it. But giving up 3 first rounders plus a couple of 2nd rounders for 1 player cannot be considered a 'steal'.

EXACTLY.

Sully
04-30-2012, 11:21 AM
I'm going to change your definition a little, and say Luck.
You have over a decade of a HOF QB, and he misses the season the year before one of the best QB prospects in years is going to be the top pick? That's a fucking steal.

Frankie
04-30-2012, 11:31 AM
I'm going to change your definition a little, and say Luck.
You have over a decade of a HOF QB, and he misses the season the year before one of the best QB prospects in years is going to be the top pick? That's a ****ing steal.

Yes it is. :(

The name of their #1 draft choice is the most apt I have ever seen. It's like Hollywood scripted it.

Pestilence
04-30-2012, 11:32 AM
The Bengals raped this draft. Just absolutely crushed it.

I don't think they made a single pick that I'd grade below a B+. Just a fantastic job by those guys.

I wasn't paying attention during the draft....but I went back and looked afterwards.....and holy shit.....they kill the thing.

Chief Roundup
04-30-2012, 11:48 AM
I'm going to change your definition a little, and say Luck.
You have over a decade of a HOF QB, and he misses the season the year before one of the best QB prospects in years is going to be the top pick? That's a ****ing steal.

As far as the fan goes it is especially a steal to only have 1 bad year between Peyton Manning and Luck. Assuming Luck turns into what he is supposed to be.

It is all very convient how it worked out for them. They didn't even win a game until they were guaranteed one of the top 2 picks. Won 2 in a row and then lose the last game.

DeezNutz
04-30-2012, 12:04 PM
Except that "the first round pick" would've actually been three first round picks, plus even more as the Rams would've had to fall back further than the 6 spot had they dealt with us.

The Skins paid dearly for the right to move up. In the end, it may be worth it. But giving up 3 first rounders plus a couple of 2nd rounders for 1 player cannot be considered a 'steal'.

I do not understand the logic behind saying the Skins gave up three first-rounders. Literally, yes. But they received a first-round pick this year, right? Would I give up a first next year and a first in '14 for the right to pick a potential franchise QB? In a heartbeat.

Too bad Pioli doesn't feel the same way. Thus, we're going to have to hope that luck or divine intervention lead the way to a SB in KC.

DJ's left nut
04-30-2012, 12:10 PM
I do not understand the logic behind saying the Skins gave up three first-rounders. Literally, yes. But they received a first-round pick this year, right? Would I give up a first next year and a first in '14 for the right to pick a potential franchise QB? In a heartbeat.

Too bad Pioli doesn't feel the same way. Thus, we're going to have to hope that luck or divine intervention lead the way to a SB in KC.

It's an argument worth making. But to call it a 'steal' is absurd.

It would've probably taken our 1st rounder for three seasons as well as our 2nd for 2 of them. Sure - there are worst case scenario arguments (would you give up Jackson, Poe, Dorsey, McCluster and Arenas for RGIII) but there are also best case scenario arguments (Berry, Bowe, Albert, Flowers, Hudson).

I know it's a QB league - but giving up that 2nd group of 5 for RGIII would've been insane. I know the ideologues want to argue that no price is too high for a franchise QB, but that's not true; at least it's not true as it relates to draft picks at QB that have maybe a 75% chance of hitting. Elite QBs are force multipliers in this league, to be sure - but multiplying by zero is still zero. At some point sanity must prevail.

But there's also a chance your package becomes the first group of five, which is why I won't say the Skins got screwed.

In the end - RGIII was not a steal. He was an extremely valuable commodity and the Redskins gave up a shitload to get him.

But that doesn't stop the guys that think they're cute from citing him. Same as the Luck picks - yeah, Luck should totally have gone higher than #1 overall. Total robbery from the Colts.

Whatever; sometimes people just like to think they're clever. Good for them.

Chiefnj2
04-30-2012, 12:20 PM
It's an argument worth making. But to call it a 'steal' is absurd.

.

How many times can a team trade up into the top 2 to get a blue chip franchise QB?

DJ's left nut
04-30-2012, 12:27 PM
I would imagine there are very few seasons where a team cannot give up 3 firsts and 2 2nds to move up 4 spots.

Watch - next season there will be a chance to move up to 2 if a team is willing to give up that kind of haul for it.

ChiefRocka
04-30-2012, 12:29 PM
Kellen Moore

Fat Elvis
04-30-2012, 12:37 PM
Except that "the first round pick" would've actually been three first round picks, plus even more as the Rams would've had to fall back further than the 6 spot had they dealt with us.

The Skins paid dearly for the right to move up. In the end, it may be worth it. But giving up 3 first rounders plus a couple of 2nd rounders for 1 player cannot be considered a 'steal'.

It all depends on the player. I think RG3 is the type of player that whoever gets him-even at what it cost Washington--or what it would of cost us is a steal.

RG3 would make this team a perennial SB contender. Any player that does that is a steal--regardless of where they are picked or what they cost.

DeezNutz
04-30-2012, 12:37 PM
I would imagine there are very few seasons where a team cannot give up 3 firsts and 2 2nds to move up 4 spots.

Watch - next season there will be a chance to move up to 2 if a team is willing to give up that kind of haul for it.

Two elite QB prospects, and luck would have it that the team in the 2 hole didn't need the position (or so they assume). That's pretty rare territory, since being a shit team and lacking a QB tend to go hand-in-hand in this league.

It's just getting pretty old always having to say, "Well, next year..."

DJ's left nut
04-30-2012, 12:39 PM
Like I said - there's every reason to make the argument that the Skins made a wise decision to move up.

But a 'steal'? Gimme a break - the Redskins just gave up more value to get any single player than any team has given up since Herschel Walker.

DJ's left nut
04-30-2012, 12:44 PM
It all depends on the player. I think RG3 is the type of player that whoever gets him-even at what it cost Washington--or what it would of cost us is a steal.

RG3 would make this team a perennial SB contender. Any player that does that is a steal--regardless of where they are picked or what they cost.

Eh, I disgree there.

RG3 is a nice prospect, but he's not without warts. He's a little undersized, he played in the air-raid system; he's not a can't-miss. He's certainly not so rock-solid that you can state without qualification that he makes the Chiefs a SB contender.

I like RG3. I think the "lay a turd for Robert Griffin the Third" thread was started by me in week 4; I've been a fan of the guy all season. But I'm also not going to completely sell out on him either. We have a lot to learn yet about RGIII and to give up that kind of value for the 75% chance he succeeds could be considered worthwhile, but not such a no-brainer that you call it robbery.

I don't care how much you like RGIII - if you don't swallow hard before you pull the trigger on that deal, you're simply closing your eyes to the possible consequences. And if you have to swallow that hard, well I don't see how you can consider it thievery.

DeezNutz
04-30-2012, 12:50 PM
Weeden, to me, signals a completely different approach to drafting QBs. Simply put, if the player has a flash of evidence to suggest that he might be a franchise QB, he's going in the first. Period.

Luck and RGIII provided sustained looks at elite-level play. Tannehill and Weeden flashed.

How the above is conveniently forgotten when discussing the likes of late-round picks is beyond me, but the league is evolving, has been, and the "best" GM in the business isn't reacting.

DJ's left nut
04-30-2012, 01:00 PM
Weeden, to me, signals a completely different approach to drafting QBs. Simply put, if the player has a flash of evidence to suggest that he might be a franchise QB, he's going in the first. Period.

Luck and RGIII provided sustained looks at elite-level play. Tannehill and Weeded flash.

How the above is conveniently forgotten when discussing the likes of late-round picks is beyond me, but the league is evolving, has been, and the "best" GM in the business isn't reacting.

Alternatively, can't you say that this season was a gut reaction to a disproportionate amount of success from rookie QBs last season? Notably Newton and Dalton. And Dalton actually regressed as the season went on.

Let's say that Weeden, Tannehill and even RGIII struggle a little this year. Or that Dalton backslides a little. What if Ponder doesn't progress and Locker can't claim the starters job? Hell, what if Bradford flames out again and they finally shovel dirt on Sanchez? Will the attitude towards moderately talented QBs change a little? Guys like Luck and Stafford will still fly off the board, but the Tannehills? (I.E. Bray or Smith next season?)

It's possible that Newton being an extreme outlier really changed the attitudes of the draft this year. Moreover, there's an excellent chance that the teams at the top of the draft next season aren't going to be going in hard at QB again because they've already made large investments in the position.

I'm not willing to declare a seismic shift in attitudes just yet. Oh we're getting closer, don't get me wrong. But it's really being fueled by maybe 3 or 4 data points (Newton, Dalton, Stafford, Bradford). But ultimately a lot of other data points are getting incompletes at best right now. If the Lockers, Ponders, Daltons, Gabberts, Weeden's and Tannehill's of the world flame out, I think you're going to see teams start to dial it back a little on all but the absolutely premier QB prospects.

And I don't see how you can argue that there's not a very good chance that most of the names on that list don't amount to much more than a glorified Matt Cassel.

DaKCMan AP
04-30-2012, 01:08 PM
Alternatively, can't you say that this season was a gut reaction to a disproportionate amount of success from rookie QBs last season?

Maybe, but I think it has more to do with drafting a guy and knowing you don't have to invest $60 million without proven results. The negative risk cost went down while the upside remained unchanged.

DeezNutz
04-30-2012, 01:19 PM
Maybe, but I think it has more to do with drafting a guy and knowing you don't have to invest $60 million without proven results. The negative risk cost went down while the upside remained unchanged.

Pretty much how I'm seeing it, and the myth that missing on a guy will "set the franchise back (insert number) of years" has been disproved, though it's still trumpeted at times on this board.

DJ's left nut
04-30-2012, 01:21 PM
Pretty much how I'm seeing it, and the myth that missing on a guy will "set the franchise back (insert number) of years" has been disproved, though it's still trumpeted at times on this board.

Eh, if they mis-fire on Poe they're set back exactly one season; till the next guy shows up. It's the same with any bad first rounder under the new system, regardless of position (provided that the staff is secure enough in their job status to cut bait).

However - if you do take the gamble that the Redskins just took - that argument has legs again.

I had no problem with rolling the dice on Tannehill because if he busts, who gives a rip? Try again. He's not less likely to bust than Poe and in a far more critical position.

But man, you fellas are saying that there's virtually no cost too great to gamble on a guy and I just don't see it. Giving up 3 firsts and 2 seconds for RGIII presents great risk and if it doesn't pan out, you've really put your team in a bind for a very long time.

Maybe the risk is worth taking, but don't act like it's not there or attempt to understate it.

vailpass
04-30-2012, 01:23 PM
Kirk Cousins /CP

In listening to Cousins talk during interviews over the past couple of weeks I've really gotten to liking him. Smart, leader, aggressive. Would have liked to see Denver take him instead of Osweiler.

vailpass
04-30-2012, 01:24 PM
Eh, I disgree there.

RG3 is a nice prospect, but he's not without warts. He's a little undersized, he played in the air-raid system; he's not a can't-miss. He's certainly not so rock-solid that you can state without qualification that he makes the Chiefs a SB contender.

I like RG3. I think the "lay a turd for Robert Griffin the Third" thread was started by me in week 4; I've been a fan of the guy all season. But I'm also not going to completely sell out on him either. We have a lot to learn yet about RGIII and to give up that kind of value for the 75% chance he succeeds could be considered worthwhile, but not such a no-brainer that you call it robbery.

I don't care how much you like RGIII - if you don't swallow hard before you pull the trigger on that deal, you're simply closing your eyes to the possible consequences. And if you have to swallow that hard, well I don't see how you can consider it thievery.

100% agree.

DeezNutz
04-30-2012, 01:33 PM
Eh, if they mis-fire on Poe they're set back exactly one season; till the next guy shows up. It's the same with any bad first rounder under the new system, regardless of position (provided that the staff is secure enough in their job status to cut bait).

However - if you do take the gamble that the Redskins just took - that argument has legs again.

I had no problem with rolling the dice on Tannehill because if he busts, who gives a rip? Try again. He's not less likely to bust than Poe and in a far more critical position.

But man, you fellas are saying that there's virtually no cost too great to gamble on a guy and I just don't see it. Giving up 3 firsts and 2 seconds for RGIII presents great risk and if it doesn't pan out, you've really put your team in a bind for a very long time.

Maybe the risk is worth taking, but don't act like it's not there or attempt to understate it.

I'm not saying that, and I'm not entirely agreeing with the notion that RGIII was a "steal"; it was highly unusual for that level of prospect at that position to be available, though.

The myth that missing on a QB cripples a franchise is dead. Unequivocally put to rest, as we've seen Carolina and even Denver burn picks on first rounders and get right back on the horse, even if that horse is a broke-neck.

It's never been easier, cheaper, and more necessary to draft a QB, but the Chiefs are still looking for the next DMC and squeezing line talent out of Conference USA.

CrazyPhuD
04-30-2012, 01:35 PM
Tebow