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Von Dumbass
05-02-2012, 12:05 PM
North County Times reporting Seau "found dead by a housekeeper of a gunshot wound to the chest."

https://twitter.com/#!/LATimesfarmer/status/197755054793560065


Junior Seau Dead Cops Investigating Shooting

Cops are currently at Seau's home just outside San Diego. Seau was 43-years-old ... and leaves behind 3 kids and an ex-wife.

Seau was a beast in the NFL -- skyrocketing to fame thanks to his explosive play with the San Diego Chargers, Miami Dolphins and New England Patriots. The USC standout was selected in the first round of the NFL draft in 1990 and played in the league for 20 years.

Seau was involved in a car accident back in 2010 when he drove his SUV off a cliff in Carlsbad, CA hours after he was arrested for allegedly attacking his girlfriend. Seau later said he was not trying to kill himself ... insisting he had fallen asleep at the wheel.

http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/02/junior-seau-dead/

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 12:08 PM
Bring him in for a look?

cdcox
05-02-2012, 12:10 PM
John Goodman says "hi".

Douche Baggins
05-02-2012, 12:11 PM
I heard it was a painful death. He say ow.

ChiefRocka
05-02-2012, 12:12 PM
Shotgun formation?

sd4chiefs
05-02-2012, 12:13 PM
Local news says (just a rumor) that he committed suicide.

Donger
05-02-2012, 12:13 PM
Shotgun formation?

LMAO

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 12:13 PM
Local news says (just a rumor) that he committed suicide.

Maybe he could show Cassel the ropes.

DMAC
05-02-2012, 12:13 PM
Shotgun formation?

WOW

Douche Baggins
05-02-2012, 12:14 PM
BREAKING: Murder/Suicide with Ryan Leaf

L.A. Chieffan
05-02-2012, 12:14 PM
Roids takes another

Pestilence
05-02-2012, 12:14 PM
Im sure all you losers with high post counts will just mock this "noob" but this will be my last post and last time on this site. To joke about something like this is sick and disgusting! Have fun with your pathetic little internet only lives.

That guy posts that he's leaving the Planet....and then Seau kills himself?

FUCKING CP!!!

pr_capone
05-02-2012, 12:14 PM
TMZ reporting he is dead.

http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/02/junior-seau-shooting-police/

sd4chiefs
05-02-2012, 12:15 PM
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/may/02/report-of-shooting-at-seaus-home/




Kristina Davis


10:57 a.m., May 2, 2012

Follow »
Twitter: @kristinadavis



Report of shooting at Seau’s home




OCEANSIDE — Oceanside police are responding to a report of a shooting at the beachfront home of former Chargers star Junior Seau Wednesday.

A 911 call reporting a possible suicide was made to police at 10 a.m., a dispatcher said.

Seau lives in a two-story home on the south end of The Strand.

A crowd that includes several Oceanside police officers has formed outside the house.

No further details were immediately available.

nychief
05-02-2012, 12:16 PM
Brain damage.

Douche Baggins
05-02-2012, 12:16 PM
Sources indicate Seau never recovered from Philip Rivers' fumbled snap last fall.

Tribal Warfare
05-02-2012, 12:17 PM
TMZ reporting he is dead.

http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/02/junior-seau-shooting-police/

I'm not finding anything on ESPN.com

Graystoke
05-02-2012, 12:17 PM
Seau it aint SO!

Scorp
05-02-2012, 12:21 PM
Mind blowing......

Radar Chief
05-02-2012, 12:22 PM
That guy posts that he's leaving the Planet....and then Seau kills himself?

****ING CP!!!

:eek: OMG! Not again!

Micjones
05-02-2012, 12:22 PM
That's sad.
God bless his family and friends.

Detoxing
05-02-2012, 12:22 PM
What a bummer. Dude was a San Diego Icon. He's from my hometown (which he died in apparently) and my dad played HS ball with him.

This kinda sucks.

Demonpenz
05-02-2012, 12:24 PM
Typical Seau.... always having a blast

stonedstooge
05-02-2012, 12:25 PM
I guess he won't have to worry about going broke

Munson
05-02-2012, 12:25 PM
I was listening to Rush Limbaugh on 95.7 here in SD, and it was interrupted with the Junior Seau news. They haven't said anything about a suicide yet. All they're saying is that there was a gunshot, and that rumors are that he's dead.

Braincase
05-02-2012, 12:26 PM
Damn.

ChiefsNow
05-02-2012, 12:26 PM
Wow

ChiefsNow
05-02-2012, 12:28 PM
Terrible news.

Munson
05-02-2012, 12:29 PM
Ok, now the radio station is saying a probable suicide. Its sad if its true.

KCUnited
05-02-2012, 12:29 PM
Evidence thought to be the result of buckshot turned out to be Norv Turner's neck.

Frazod
05-02-2012, 12:30 PM
Wow. I figured he'd be one to have enough star power to survive after football. I guess not. One of our long time opponents that I respected a lot. RIP

Saulbadguy
05-02-2012, 12:30 PM
Just goes to show, there is death after football.

That's uncalled for. He needed that comment like he needed a hole in the head.

Demonpenz
05-02-2012, 12:32 PM
he was always a high caliber player

Douche Baggins
05-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Craig Whelihan was unavailable for comment.

the Talking Can
05-02-2012, 12:33 PM
yet matt cassel lives

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 12:34 PM
yet matt cassel lives

That's the real tragedy.

pr_capone
05-02-2012, 12:34 PM
yet matt cassel lives

life is unfair like that sometimes

BigChiefFan
05-02-2012, 12:34 PM
I hate to hear that. I wish people would keep perspective and realize life is worth living.

BoneKrusher
05-02-2012, 12:35 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/05/02/police-probe-shooting-at-home-of-nfl-great-junior-seau-e/

Iowanian
05-02-2012, 12:35 PM
I'm not making jokes about this either.

He was a pretty damn good player for a long time and even though he was an eggo, I always respected his game.

It's too bad his personal life was obviously not as successful.

Douche Baggins
05-02-2012, 12:36 PM
yet matt cassel lives

New CP rule: post this on every death thread.

htismaqe
05-02-2012, 12:36 PM
According to 810, this would make him the EIGHTH member of their 94 Super Bowl team to have died...

Bane
05-02-2012, 12:36 PM
Well...Bye.

Detoxing
05-02-2012, 12:36 PM
According to 810, this would make him the EIGHTH member of their 94 Super Bowl team to have died...

Damn. That's crazy.

Douche Baggins
05-02-2012, 12:37 PM
According to 810, this would make him the EIGHTH member of their 94 Super Bowl team to have died...

Creepy.

Tribal Warfare
05-02-2012, 12:37 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/junior-seau-shooting-at-home-050212

Police near San Diego responded to reports of a shooting Wednesday at the home of former NFL star Junior Seau, the San Diego Union-Tribune reported.

TMZ, citing multiple law enforcement sources, reported that Seau was found dead inside the home.

The report could not be immediately confirmed.

The 12-time Pro Bowl linebacker, aged 43, played for the San Diego Chargers, Miami Dolphins and New England Patriots from 1990-2009.

ReynardMuldrake
05-02-2012, 12:38 PM
I guess life was treating him pretty ruff.


...shit, wrong thread.

Frosty
05-02-2012, 12:38 PM
Wow. I figured he'd be one to have enough star power to survive after football. I guess not. One of our long time opponents that I respected a lot. RIP

This.

I wonder if, to SD fans, this is like DT's death was to Chiefs fans? That was a blow, so I feel for them if so.

DeezNutz
05-02-2012, 12:38 PM
Damn. Dude was a monster in his prime.

tooge
05-02-2012, 12:39 PM
People that commit suicide always piss me off. So freakin selfish. I feel for his kids and other family members left behind. I always hated but respected him when he was a charger. Having said that, I guess this is the last time he'll be droppin the BOOM on someone

Frazod
05-02-2012, 12:40 PM
This.

I wonder if, to SD fans, this is like DT's death was to Chiefs fans? That was a blow, so I feel for them if so.

Yeah, I just said that to one of my friends, that it would be pretty much the same deal for them.

ChiefRocka
05-02-2012, 12:40 PM
he was always a high caliber player

nice.

Tribal Warfare
05-02-2012, 12:41 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/SD

by Dan McLellan, CBSSports.com

Former Chargers LB Junior Seau was found dead in his home in Oceanside, Calif., on Wednesday, according to a North County Times source. The death appears to be gun related.

thebrad84
05-02-2012, 12:41 PM
At least he went out with a bang?

Frosty
05-02-2012, 12:41 PM
Yeah, I just said that to one of my friends, that it would be pretty much the same deal for them.

Yeah - haha to puns, but this probably isn't too cool for CP members like Buck and Gadzooks.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 12:42 PM
Bring him in for a look?

LMAO

ChiefsNow
05-02-2012, 12:43 PM
I like these pun threads for some reason, then feel guilty afterwards.

lewdog
05-02-2012, 12:43 PM
Nothing cool about this, even if he did play for a divisional rival. Still seems like many details are unknown.

whoman69
05-02-2012, 12:44 PM
Guess he must have put too much emphasis in his identity in being a football player. Probably not the first time he tried to off himself, as he drove off a cliff in 2010 but claimed he fell asleep behind the wheel. What kind of curse is there in the '94 Chargers?

Tribal Warfare
05-02-2012, 12:45 PM
I like these pun threads for some reason, then feel guilty afterwards.

It was funny, until the news was verified real.

Buck
05-02-2012, 12:45 PM
Fuck this and fuck all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

DaKCMan AP
05-02-2012, 12:45 PM
Sad. Hell of a player.

One of the more iconic jerseys of the 90s.

http://www.fans911.com/pic/201111291690542-28388.jpg

headsnap
05-02-2012, 12:45 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

agree...

Frazod
05-02-2012, 12:46 PM
Yeah - haha to puns, but this probably isn't too cool for CP members like Buck and Gadzooks.

Yeah, I think under the circumstances they're in rather poor taste, but it just comes with the territory.

ChiefsNow
05-02-2012, 12:47 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

Sorry Buck, gonna delete mine.

SNR
05-02-2012, 12:48 PM
Fuck this and fuck all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.The Planet's in a weird mood. If it weren't for the speculation and stuff before he was confirmed dead I doubt we would have been making jokes. Plus we're still hot on the dog thread.

Either way, RIP Junior. His career was one I hated, but also one I deeply respected and admired.

alpha_omega
05-02-2012, 12:48 PM
RIP

vailpass
05-02-2012, 12:49 PM
Yeah - haha to puns, but this probably isn't too cool for CP members like Buck and Gadzooks.

Totally agree. Let's sticky this thread as a prayer request for them. It has to be tragic to find out one of your favorite football players was eaten by a dog.

Hog Farmer
05-02-2012, 12:50 PM
Al Qaeda revenge for Bin Ladens death

spanky 52
05-02-2012, 12:50 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

Absolutely. Sorry Buck.

tooge
05-02-2012, 12:50 PM
I'd be hesitant to make fun if the guy died tragically in a fire or car accident or something. But, he offed himself. What a prick. Sorry, but I've just never thought that I should feel sympathy for someone that takes the greatest gift of all and throws it away, ruining it for countless others at the same time.

lewdog
05-02-2012, 12:50 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

Not surprising with some of the high schoolers that post on this board.

DTs death was hard to take and I would never wish that on any athlete, but John Elway, a hasty death. Seau sure was fun to watch. Great intensity.

All the best, Buck.

Reaper16
05-02-2012, 12:50 PM
Gunshot to the chest. Which means he preserved his brain, allowing it to be studied.

Frosty
05-02-2012, 12:51 PM
Guess he must have put too much emphasis in his identity in being a football player. Probably not the first time he tried to off himself, as he drove off a cliff in 2010 but claimed he fell asleep behind the wheel. What kind of curse is there in the '94 Chargers?

There is starting to be more and more evidence that constant small trauma to the brain is cumulative and can create pretty significant problems at a relatively young age. I've read that it can lead to depression, so it's possible that is the case here.

lewdog
05-02-2012, 12:51 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

In other news Buck, if you lose 1 more pound, you will be honoring Seau with your weight loss.

tooge
05-02-2012, 12:51 PM
Totally agree. Let's sticky this thread as a prayer request for them. It has to be tragic to find out one of your favorite football players was eaten by a dog.

Holy crap that was funny. Sorry, maybe I'm a heartless piece of shit, but that was funny. right?

Donger
05-02-2012, 12:51 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

People have strange reactions to suicides.

the Talking Can
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
DT got and gets trashed on opposing fans boards...not that it matters

i wouldn't waste time feeling self-righteous because of quite common message board behavior when you could spend that time remembering a player you cared about...

KCFalcon59
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
This blows my mind

Halfcan
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
RIP Jr. was a great player. Sad end.

Buck
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
I'd be hesitant to make fun if the guy died tragically in a fire or car accident or something. But, he offed himself. What a prick. Sorry, but I've just never thought that I should feel sympathy for someone that takes the greatest gift of all and throws it away, ruining it for countless others at the same time.

This isn't confirmed, but the guy gave up his happiness by playing in the NFL and entertaining all of us. A lot of these hard hitters get depressed because of concussions.

Its just poor taste, regardless.

Frosty
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
Gunshot to the chest. Which means he preserved his brain, allowing it to be studied.

That is an unusual way to commit suicide. Sounds more like an accident.

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 12:53 PM
Fuck this and fuck all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

Yeah, I think we would have been too paralyzed with grief to make puns.

ChiefRocka
05-02-2012, 12:53 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.


DT didn't intentionally try to off himself twice.

Hog Farmer
05-02-2012, 12:53 PM
Fuck this and fuck all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

DT didn't commit suicide .Seau turned out to be a real fucking loser in life. I think people that commit suicide are selfish. They leave behind people that loved and cared for them. I think people that commit suicide should all die!

Reerun_KC
05-02-2012, 12:53 PM
Lights out?

Braincase
05-02-2012, 12:53 PM
People have strange reactions to suicides.

It's all contextual. Normally, I would have cracked a joke or two, but in light of current events, my sense of humor isn't quite it's normal peak.

Frazod
05-02-2012, 12:54 PM
This isn't confirmed, but the guy gave up his happiness by playing in the NFL and entertaining all of us. A lot of these hard hitters get depressed because of concussions.

Its just poor taste, regardless.

Do your best to ignore the idiots. Most of us respected him a great deal.

Donger
05-02-2012, 12:54 PM
This isn't confirmed, but the guy gave up his happiness by playing in the NFL and entertaining all of us. A lot of these hard hitters get depressed because of concussions.

Its just poor taste, regardless.

Oh good lord.

the Talking Can
05-02-2012, 12:54 PM
listening to espn radio for 20 mins and still no mention of it...kind of weird, is tmz not good enough for the 'integrity' of espn

tk13
05-02-2012, 12:54 PM
I'd be hesitant to make fun if the guy died tragically in a fire or car accident or something. But, he offed himself. What a prick. Sorry, but I've just never thought that I should feel sympathy for someone that takes the greatest gift of all and throws it away, ruining it for countless others at the same time.

That just depends though. It's one thing if you're just running away from a bad financial situation or something... and maybe that will come out later. But given some of his weird behavior it sounds like he was not in a very good mental state.

If they can study his brain and check for things like concussion syndrome... he may end up being the poster boy for post football health problems.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dayze
05-02-2012, 12:55 PM
RIP if true.
He's one of my earlier memories of watching the NFL. Dude was a beast.

tooge
05-02-2012, 12:56 PM
This isn't confirmed, but the guy gave up his happiness by playing in the NFL and entertaining all of us. A lot of these hard hitters get depressed because of concussions.

Its just poor taste, regardless.

Regardless of how he did it, I'm sorry for YOU, and all the other people that were fans and family. It does suck. Still think he's a prick for doing it if indeed it was suicide

Hoover
05-02-2012, 12:56 PM
He was the one player from another AFC West team that I really liked and wanted to see do well.

Very sad.

I'm blown away by this...

Dragonocho
05-02-2012, 12:57 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

That's a slippery slope. Better put on our seat belts.

tooge
05-02-2012, 12:57 PM
That just depends though. It's one thing if you're just running away from a bad financial situation or something... and maybe that will come out later. But given some of his weird behavior it sounds like he was not in a very good mental state.

If they can study his brain and check for things like concussion syndrome... he may end up being the poster boy for post football health problems.
Posted via Mobile Device

QFT

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 12:57 PM
Damn.

Lets enjoy football while it lasts. I'm starting to wonder if what we'll have in 10 years resembles what we've been watching the last 20.

The "Roman Colosseum" analogies are getting closer and closer to home. These guys really are beating themselves to death out there.

Think about that the next time Jamie Harrison takes a cheap shot and then starts roaring about how he's just a warrior when he gets suspended. If a shot like that ever puts someones lights out on the field, just go ahead and start the death clock for the NFL.

Graystoke
05-02-2012, 12:57 PM
I find sucide hard to believe when you have kids, gradkids etc.. Really a selfish act, but I am not him so I can't speculate on the darkness he had in his life. Obviously there is some brain chemistry amiss or it was one to many concussions.

This isn't confirmed, but the guy gave up his happiness by playing in the NFL and entertaining all of us. A lot of these hard hitters get depressed because of concussions.

Its just poor taste, regardless.

He gave up his happiness for us and the NFL?
Nah

Detoxing
05-02-2012, 12:57 PM
I still remember the Say-Ow stickers all the kids had back in elementary school. You weren't cool unless you had one on your binder.

ChiefRocka
05-02-2012, 12:58 PM
Leather helmets.

Donger
05-02-2012, 12:58 PM
He was the one player from another AFC West team that I really liked and wanted to see do well.

Very sad.

I'm blown away by this...

Stop, you're giving me a splitting headache.

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 12:59 PM
I think a pun thread is preferable to yet another demonstration of CP's total lack of understanding w/r/t mental illness, depression, and suicide.

Inmem58
05-02-2012, 01:00 PM
Junior Seau is the latest of several former NFL players to commit suicide -- and all the deaths might be linked ... through brain-related injuries sustained during the players' football careers.Most recently, 62-year-old former Atlanta Falcons player Ray Easterling (center) shot himself last month in his Virginia home. His wife claims the former safety developed symptoms of dementia after his football career.Easterling filed a federal lawsuit in Philly against the NFL in 2011 over its handling of concussion-related football injuries -- claiming the league intentionally concealed links between the injuries and the game.Dozens and dozens of similar concussion-related lawsuits have also been filed against the league.50-year-old former Chicago Bears player Dave Duerson (right) was found dead in his Florida home last year from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest.* Before his death, he texted his family asking for his brain to be used for research (hence why he shot himself in the chest). Months later, researcher neurologists at Boston University confirmed Duerson had suffered from a neurodegenerative disease linked to concussions.It's possible Junior Seau shot himself in the chest for the same reason.Terrell Owens had TWO near-death encounters involving pills -- most recently on October 6th, when his assistant called 911 claiming the NFL star had OD'd. T.O. nearly died back in 2006 too, after downing 36 Vicodins.As we reported, Junior Seau drove his truck off a California cliff back in 2010 following a domestic violence arrest. It's unclear if it was a suicide attempt.

ChiefRocka
05-02-2012, 01:00 PM
I think a pun thread is preferable to yet another demonstration of CP's total lack of understanding w/r/t mental illness, depression, and suicide.

Dead on.

Tribal Warfare
05-02-2012, 01:00 PM
Now, ESPN SportsCenter is reporting

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:00 PM
There is starting to be more and more evidence that constant small trauma to the brain is cumulative and can create pretty significant problems at a relatively young age. I've read that it can lead to depression, so it's possible that is the case here.

The NFL is bracing itself for a multi-billion dollar class action that could cripple the sport.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:01 PM
Leather helmets.

The rule changes that emphasize the passing game have also created more problems with head traumas, etc..., IMO.

In the running game you have guys in relatively confined spaces running into each other. You run greater risks for broken limbs and such in the mass of bodies underneath, but the speeds are incredibly slow.

In the short passing game, however, the rules are designed to allow free movement and create speed. These guys are just launching themselves into each other over the middle of the field.

I wonder if we won't start to see rules shaded back towards encouraging the more deliberate, power football that we used to see. I really do think it would help improve the head trauma issues.

Dayze
05-02-2012, 01:01 PM
NFLN reported it.

not that he was dead, but that cops 'responded' to his house. they were clear on the 'responded' part.

htismaqe
05-02-2012, 01:02 PM
That just depends though. It's one thing if you're just running away from a bad financial situation or something... and maybe that will come out later. But given some of his weird behavior it sounds like he was not in a very good mental state.

If they can study his brain and check for things like concussion syndrome... he may end up being the poster boy for post football health problems.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mike Webster...

Tribal Warfare
05-02-2012, 01:03 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/05/junior-seau-dead-gunshot-wound.html

Former USC and San Diego Chargers football star Junior Seau was found dead Wednesday of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head at his Oceanside home.

His girlfriend found him dead in his bed, according to law enforcement sources.

Oceanside police didn't immediately have any comment about what was happening at Seau's home but are expected to provide details soon.

Television footage showed police swarming around the home. The San Diego coroner's office could not confirm any information.

In 2010, Seau was involved in an accident in which his sport-utility vehicle went off a beachside cliff. The accident occurred after he was arrested in Oceanside on suspicion of domestic violence.

Seau also played for the Miami Dolphins and the New England Patriots.

ReynardMuldrake
05-02-2012, 01:03 PM
That is an unusual way to commit suicide. Sounds more like an accident.

Not the first time.

SUNNY ISLES BEACH, Fla. — The words came up on Alicia Duerson’s cellphone as blithely as text messages typically do, but this one was different: her former husband, the former Chicago Bears star Dave Duerson, asked her to donate his brain for research.

In a suicide note, Dave Duerson repeated an earlier request he made in text messages to have his brain donated for research.
Enlarge This Image

Duerson in 1989 with Chicago, where he won the first of his two Super Bowl titles. In 1999, he showed his organ donor card at a memorial for Walter Payton, who died from liver disease.

She texted back and heard nothing, then called their son, Tregg, who was just ending his workday as a bank analyst in Chicago. They called again and got voice mail.

The next and last message they received from Dave Duerson was meant for them, their family and perhaps all of professional football. It was written in his hurried hand, repeating his text message in case it had not been received, and found in the South Florida condominium where he placed a gun to his chest and shot himself to death last Thursday.

“Please, see that my brain is given to the N.F.L.’s brain bank.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/sports/football/23duerson.html?pagewanted=all

tk13
05-02-2012, 01:04 PM
Players are also just bigger and faster and stronger too.

Who knows, maybe nothing will come of it because people want football at any cost. But this guy was a superstar. People who only casually follow football know who he is. Given the timing of bountygate and all the concussion issues, it's certainly going to bring the issue to the front even more.
Posted via Mobile Device

Simply Red
05-02-2012, 01:05 PM
jeez man, what is it with mexicans?

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 01:05 PM
Former USC and San Diego Chargers football star Junior Seau was found dead Wednesday of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head


So much for science.

KCUnited
05-02-2012, 01:05 PM
Think about that the next time Jamie Harrison takes a cheap shot and then starts roaring about how he's just a warrior when he gets suspended. If a shot like that ever puts someones lights out on the field, just go ahead and start the death clock for the NFL.

I'm no expert, but I don't believe it's the big shots that are the concern, it's the prolonged battle in the trenches that is causing the most damage. Not that big shots aren't having potential long term effects on guys, but the constant brain rattling is the focus.

Von Dumbass
05-02-2012, 01:05 PM
Drug overdose, car wreck, motorcyle wreck, plane crash, lightning strike, suicide among death causes for 8 dead '94 Chargers
Expand



https://twitter.com/#!/adamspeaks/status/197762596961648641

Valiant
05-02-2012, 01:06 PM
[QUOTE=Detoxing;8588318]I still remember the Say-Ow stickers all the kids had back in elementary school. You weren't cool unless you had one on your binder.[/QUOTE

Guess we are going to find out about his financials here in the coming weeks. Sorry to his family, but he just hurt them more by taking this way out if it was suicide. They should not see any money from the insurance.

Steron
05-02-2012, 01:06 PM
My first thoughts were steroids and/or concussions probably played a part in this.

R.I.P. Junior.

Douche Baggins
05-02-2012, 01:06 PM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DnyzgBx6FkY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SNR
05-02-2012, 01:07 PM
So if the NFL goes downhill, I assume hockey will be next.

I guess I better learn to start liking baseball :grr:

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 01:08 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/adamspeaks/status/197762596961648641

Hahahaha a Charger was killed by a lightning strike?

TOO RICH

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:09 PM
I'm no expert, but I don't believe it's the big shots that are the concern, it's the prolonged battle in the trenches that is causing the most damage. Not that big shots aren't having potential long term effects on guys, but the constant brain rattling is the focus.

For this particular issue, I think you're right.

But lets say that Harrison or someone else uses himself like a missile, goes up high and doesn't just hit someone in the dome, but at a bad enough angle to make him a vegetable or flat out kill him. The speeds involved in the game today make it possible, though still unlikely.

The specter of that happening on the field combined with stories like these is going to make the 'gladiator' element of the sport too difficult to just ignore anymore.

A bunch of retired players offing themselves may never get it done (we have an obsession with football in this country), but if someone ever actually dies on the field or shortly thereafter, the image will be too much for the NFL to recover from IMO.

Sucky
05-02-2012, 01:10 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

Completely agree. You won't see me joking about this.

There are definitely some insensitive dbags on this message board

RIP Junior

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 01:10 PM
Completely agree. You won't see me joking about this.

There are definitely some insensitive dbags on this message board

RIP Junior

C'mon, our bark is worse than our bite.

Hog Farmer
05-02-2012, 01:11 PM
My first thoughts were steroids and/or concussions probably played a part in this.

R.I.P. Junior.


No , I think maybe a .45 played a part in this.

O.city
05-02-2012, 01:11 PM
If, like DJ said, someone were to get killed on the field by some idiot like James Harrison, the NFL is done.




I'm thinking it might be standing on the ledge right now. I know it's a huge business, but stuff like this can't be good for business

Cave Johnson
05-02-2012, 01:12 PM
Brain damage.

CTE FTW!

Dante84
05-02-2012, 01:13 PM
If, like DJ said, someone were to get killed on the field by some idiot like James Harrison, the NFL is done.




I'm thinking it might be standing on the ledge right now. I know it's a huge business, but stuff like this can't be good for business

Dude, its a billion dollar industry.

It's not going anywhere, even if a dude dies. Get a grip.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:13 PM
A bunch of retired players offing themselves may never get it done (we have an obsession with football in this country), but if someone ever actually dies on the field or shortly thereafter, the image will be too much for the NFL to recover from IMO.

Most of the country stops smoking cigarettes now. How much could a class action cig case bring?

If the NFL has to fund a multi-billion dollar health care pension, plus pay billions in damages for past torts, they might just fold up.

Donger
05-02-2012, 01:13 PM
Is it really shocking that some ex-players of an inherently violent game choose to end their lives violently?

Tribal Warfare
05-02-2012, 01:13 PM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/05/mayor-former-nfl-star-junior-seau-dead-at-43/1#.T6GG3VgyqM8

California mayor: Former NFL star Junior Seau dead at 43

Former NFL star Junior Seau, 43, died at his Oceanside, Calif., home Wednesday.

By Robert Hanashiro, USA TODAY

"He was a local hero -- he certainly gave back to the community and to the youth through his Junior Seau Foundation," Oceanside Mayor Jim Wood told The North County Times. "Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends."


Citing a source, the Times reports Seau's body was found by a maid.

Responding to a 911 call, authorities descended on Seau's residence around 12:35 p.m. PT.

In a tragic coincidence, Seau becomes the eighth member of the 1994 San Diego Chargers, who lost Super Bowl XXIX to the 49ers, to die at a young age. The others: Chris Mims, David Griggs, Rodney Culver, Lewis Bush, Curtis Whitley, Shawn Lee and Doug Miller.

San Diego native and current Dolphins tailback Reggie Bush tweeted:

"R.I.P Jr. Seau one of the greatest players to play the game! Damn this one hurts San Diego! One of the greatest to to come from the city."

Seau played linebacker for 20 years in the NFL, earning 12 Pro Bowl nods while being named first-team all-pro six times. A USC product, he was drafted fifth overall by the Chargers in 1990 and played for the Bolts during his prime years from 1990-2002.

He joined the Dolphins in 2003 for a three-year hitch in Miami.

After a four-day retirement following the 2005 season -- Seau deemed it a graduation into the next phase of his life at the time -- he reversed course to spend four final seasons (2006-09) with the New England Patriots. He played sparingly the final two years, joining the club at midseason in both cases, but continued on at the behest of coach Bill Belichick, who valued Seau's legendary work ethic and leadership skills.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:14 PM
Dude, its a billion dollar industry.

It's not going anywhere, even if a dude dies. Get a grip.

I completely agree with O.city.

O.city
05-02-2012, 01:14 PM
Dude, its a billion dollar industry.

It's not going anywhere, even if a dude dies. Get a grip.

It won't matter if someone gets killed on the field.

Ultra Peanut
05-02-2012, 01:15 PM
Suicide's not about being selfish, it's about being in so much pain or terror that you literally cannot perceive any other escape than not existing anymore. It's not a decision that's arrived with the full use of one's cognitive abilities. It's brought on by desperation, and trying to rationalize it or trying to hold people suffering from serious mental distress accountable for it is unbelievably dickish (not to mention that it completely misses the point).

Reerun_KC
05-02-2012, 01:16 PM
I must be getting old and bitter like Milkman and SkipTowne...

Cause I just do care if some dude offs himself like this...

DaKCMan AP
05-02-2012, 01:16 PM
I must be getting old and bitter

No, just short-sighted.

tooge
05-02-2012, 01:16 PM
Suicide's not about being selfish, it's about being in so much pain or terror that you literally cannot perceive any other escape than not existing anymore. It's not a decision that's arrived with the full use of one's cognitive abilities. It's brought on by desperation, and trying to rationalize it or trying to hold people suffering from serious mental distress accountable for it is unbelievably dickish (not to mention that it completely misses the point).

dickish. How ironic

Donger
05-02-2012, 01:17 PM
Suicide's not about being selfish, it's about being in so much pain or terror that you literally cannot perceive any other escape than not existing anymore. It's not a decision that's arrived with the full use of one's cognitive abilities. It's brought on by desperation, and trying to rationalize it or trying to hold people suffering from serious mental distress accountable for it is unbelievably dickish (not to mention that it completely misses the point).

If Seau pulled the trigger, who else would you hold accountable for it?

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:17 PM
The NFL is bracing itself for a multi-billion dollar class action that could cripple the sport.

Yep. And it is sheer lunacy. There is implied consent there that should relieve the NFL of any punitive liability.

Chocolate Hog
05-02-2012, 01:17 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

It's classless.


This is very sad news and just goes to show the concussion thing is very real.

keg in kc
05-02-2012, 01:18 PM
Wow. Didn't see that coming, but probably should have.

It's probably not just concussions, but the proliferation of both performance enhancing drugs and recreational drugs, in addition to concussions, basically the same thing that's been plaguing professional wrestling in the last decade. It's a pretty vicious cocktail, and the NFL is probably counting their lucky stars that he wasn't far gone enough to do what Chris Benoit did.

BigChiefFan
05-02-2012, 01:18 PM
Lew Bush died? I must have forgotten that.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:18 PM
Speak o' the devil:

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/551995_182502085205227_100003363096802_271584_1105601005_n.jpg

Go fuck yourself, Harrison. Better yet, go off yourself.

The players need to be a hell of a lot more cognizant of this stuff among themselves. There hasn't been honor among thieves with a lot of these thugs in a very long time.

Maybe at some point asshole headhunters like Harrison will realize that there are consequences to scrambling someone's !@#$ing brain.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:19 PM
Completely agree. You won't see me joking about this.

There are definitely some insensitive dbags on this message board

RIP Junior

herp derp Interweb message boards iz a place for real emotions; I'm sophistimuhcated and stuff. Dogs eatin football players is for serious bizness. Why you guyz make jokz?

Ultra Peanut
05-02-2012, 01:19 PM
dickish. How ironic

http://i.imgur.com/T7UBE.gif

Donger
05-02-2012, 01:19 PM
It's classless.


This is very sad news and just goes to show the concussion thing is very real.

I don't know about Seau's history of concussion, but the simple fact is that he chose to slam into other players like shown above. And, he was rewarded for it.

O.city
05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
I wouldn't have any problem if they were to just ban guys like Harrison from the league.

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
Suicide's not about being selfish, it's about being in so much pain or terror that you literally cannot perceive any other escape than not existing anymore. It's not a decision that's arrived with the full use of one's cognitive abilities. It's brought on by desperation, and trying to rationalize it or trying to hold people suffering from serious mental distress accountable for it is unbelievably dickish (not to mention that it completely misses the point).

Depression just ain't the American way!

Ultra Peanut
05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
If Seau pulled the trigger, who else would you hold accountable for it?
What I'm saying is that it's not a fucking matter of accountability in the first place. It's a horrible thing that happens. Pretending that there's a person to blame instead of it being the result of a confluence of various risk factors is pointless.

Brock
05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
Dude, its a billion dollar industry.

It's not going anywhere, even if a dude dies. Get a grip.

They'll just turn it into the pro bowl. And that'll be the end of it.

tooge
05-02-2012, 01:21 PM
http://i.imgur.com/T7UBE.gif

eeewwww

Donger
05-02-2012, 01:21 PM
What I'm saying is that it's not a ****ing matter of accountability in the first place.

Sure it is.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:21 PM
Speak o' the devil:

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/551995_182502085205227_100003363096802_271584_1105601005_n.jpg

Go **** yourself, Harrison. Better yet, go off yourself.

The players need to be a hell of a lot more cognizant of this stuff among themselves. There hasn't been honor among thieves with a lot of these thugs in a very long time.

Maybe at some point asshole headhunters like Harrison will realize that there are consequences to scrambling someone's !@#$ing brain.

Then get them to sign consent forms but stop trying to ruin the game.

Thig Lyfe
05-02-2012, 01:22 PM
Sure it is.

Wow, when you put it that way...

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:23 PM
They'll just turn it into the pro bowl. And that'll be the end of it.

Yep. Something needs to be done to keep that from ever happening.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:23 PM
Yep. And it is sheer lunacy. There is implied consent there that should relieve the NFL of any punitive liability.

Put 9 individuals in a room and tell them that a billion-dollar entity run by a bunch of exceptionally rich men has tacitly accepted the deaths of its employees.

Oh sure, there will be defenses made, some of them valid. But if you can ever claim to know what a jury is going to decide, especially in a very emotionally charged issue, you're a far better man than I.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:23 PM
Yep. And it is sheer lunacy. There is implied consent there that should relieve the NFL of any punitive liability.

How much do you think the average professional football player knows about the consequences of the game? The science of this brain rumbling isn't well known. People know they can get concussions, but the long term effects of those? And even without concussions?

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:24 PM
Put 9 individuals in a room and tell them that a billion-dollar entity run by a bunch of exceptionally rich men has tacitly accepted the deaths of its employees.

Oh sure, there will be defenses made, some of them valid. But if you can ever claim to know what a jury is going to decide, especially in a very emotionally charged issue, you're a far better man than I.

Tell them those employees are multi-millionaires who knew exactly what they were doing when they accepted that money.

Rain Man
05-02-2012, 01:24 PM
The rule changes that emphasize the passing game have also created more problems with head traumas, etc..., IMO.

In the running game you have guys in relatively confined spaces running into each other. You run greater risks for broken limbs and such in the mass of bodies underneath, but the speeds are incredibly slow.

In the short passing game, however, the rules are designed to allow free movement and create speed. These guys are just launching themselves into each other over the middle of the field.

I wonder if we won't start to see rules shaded back towards encouraging the more deliberate, power football that we used to see. I really do think it would help improve the head trauma issues.

That's a really interesting point.

It would be nice if they would start restoring some balance to the game instead of this stupid trend of making the offense the Harlem Globetrotters and the defense the Washington Generals. If this is the reason for it, that's just as good as any other.

Ultra Peanut
05-02-2012, 01:25 PM
Sure it is.
me ugg

ugg have rock for bash

ugg want moralize unfortunate events

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:26 PM
Tell them those employees are multi-millionaires who knew exactly what they were doing when they accepted that money.

Give it your best shot.

But don't be surprised one way or the other. At best it will be a coin-flip scenario.

mikey23545
05-02-2012, 01:26 PM
**** this and **** all of you for making jokes.


How funny would it have been to have a pun thread when DT died? It wouldn't have been.

I'd be hesitant to make fun if the guy died tragically in a fire or car accident or something. But, he offed himself. What a prick. Sorry, but I've just never thought that I should feel sympathy for someone that takes the greatest gift of all and throws it away, ruining it for countless others at the same time.

I never thought I should feel sympathy for someone too fucking stupid to wear a seatbelt and so immoral they left illegitimate children scattered throughout the state.

Donger
05-02-2012, 01:26 PM
Put 9 individuals in a room and tell them that a billion-dollar entity run by a bunch of exceptionally rich men has tacitly accepted the deaths of its employees.

Oh sure, there will be defenses made, some of them valid. But if you can ever claim to know what a jury is going to decide, especially in a very emotionally charged issue, you're a far better man than I.

And the "victims" in the case heartily volunteered, enthusiastically played the game and were handsomely rewarded for their choice.

Donger
05-02-2012, 01:27 PM
me ugg

ugg have rock for bash

ugg want moralize unfortunate events

Yes, you are so much more evolved than I, buddy.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:27 PM
How much do you think the average professional football player knows about the consequences of the game? The science of this brain rumbling isn't well known. People know they can get concussions, but the long term effects of those? And even without concussions?

Is that the standard, that the player needs to have a doctor-level understanding?
IMHO there is a standard of implied consent that has been met. There should be a formal consent document drawn up that all existing and future players must sign or they can't play.
If any actual damages exist from the past the league should pay the expenses associated with them.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:28 PM
Give it your best shot.

But don't be surprised one way or the other. At best it will be a coin-flip scenario.

Sounds like you are rooting for the league to lose?

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:30 PM
And the "victims" in the case heartily volunteered, enthusiastically played the game and were handsomely rewarded for their choice.

Just like the woman that put a cup of coffee between her legs and suffered 2nd degree burns for it.

Sure, she put hot coffee where she shouldn't have, but McDonalds knew that the coffee was hot enough to cause burns leading to skin-grafs and did nothing about it.

A so called 'acceptance' of the risks here isn't going to get the NFL off the hook - it never gets the deepest pockets off the hook.

Juries do what they do. They'll see the faceless conglomerate of super-wealthy individuals that had concussion studies done and ignored and they'll compare those to the individual plaintiffs, be they players or the families of players that died.

Don't coach - bet. What you think the jury should do is irrelevant. What you claim you would do where you a 1-man jury is equally irrelevant (afterall, both you and veilpass would get your asses bounced from the pool). History tells us what the jury will do.

Ignore it at your own peril.

lewdog
05-02-2012, 01:31 PM
There is a complete and utter lack of knowledge about mental illness by some on this board. Sure their are people who are not mentally ill and just see suicide as an easy way out but most are dealing with inner demons that most of us cannot comprehend. Saying it is just an easy way out is just spouting ignorance about another person's situation. The stigma of being mentally ill, that is spouted by many on this board, is what can also cause many to not want to seek the help that is available to them.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:31 PM
Is that the standard, that the player needs to have a doctor-level understanding?
IMHO there is a standard of implied consent that has been met. There should be a formal consent document drawn up that all existing and future players must sign or they can't play.
If any actual damages exist from the past the league should pay the expenses associated with them.

Knowing long-term consequences isn't a doctor-level understanding. I just know that there will have to be some fully informed consent standard in this employee relationship.

There has to be mandatory clinics all players attend during training camp. The club basically needs to tell them, "By the time you're 40, there's a 50/50 chance you're going to be mentally ****ed up if you play for longer than 2 years."

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:31 PM
Sounds like you are rooting for the league to lose?

Read it however you want. I love the NFL and would hate to see anything happen to it.

But I've worked with plenty of juries.

I'm not 'rooting' either way, I'm simply saying I know which side I'd be betting on once the thing went to the scorecards.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:32 PM
Just like the woman that put a cup of coffee between her legs and suffered 2nd degree burns for it.

Sure, she put hot coffee where she shouldn't have, but McDonalds knew that the coffee was hot enough to cause burns leading to skin-grafs and did nothing about it.

A so called 'acceptance' of the risks here isn't going to get the NFL off the hook - it never gets the deepest pockets off the hook.

Juries do what they do. They'll see the faceless conglomerate of super-wealthy individuals that had concussion studies done and ignored and they'll compare those to the individual plaintiffs, be they players or the families of players that died.

Don't coach - bet. What you think the jury should do is irrelevant. What you claim you would do where you a 1-man jury is equally irrelevant (afterall, both you and veilpass would get your asses bounced from the pool). History tells us what the jury will do.

Ignore it at your own peril.

If I wanted to remain in that jury pool I assure you I could do so.

Brock
05-02-2012, 01:33 PM
If I wanted to remain in that jury pool I assure you I could do so.

ROFL Yeah, billions of dollars at stake, they're not going to be looking deep up your pooper or anything.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:33 PM
Sounds like you are rooting for the league to lose?

If you want to watch NFL games in 10 years, I would be concerned. And I would start demanding higher standards.

Chocolate Hog
05-02-2012, 01:35 PM
I don't know about Seau's history of concussion, but the simple fact is that he chose to slam into other players like shown above. And, he was rewarded for it.


Right but we haven't known about the effects of the game until recently.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:35 PM
ROFL Yeah, billions of dollars at stake, they're not going to be looking deep up your pooper or anything.

Oh, well, if it's gonna' be THAT kind of party I don't want to stay anyway.

What type of things would you look for in the backgrounds of jurors in a case like that?
NFL fan status? Political bent?

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:36 PM
Knowing long-term consequences isn't a doctor-level understanding. There does have to be some fully informed consent standard in this employee relationship.

There has to be mandatory clinics all players attend during training camp. The club basically needs to tell them, "There's a 50/50 chance you're going to be mentally fucked up if you play for longer than 2 years when you're 40."

And it would still likely be considered a contract of adhesion; afterall it's hardly an arms-length transaction. It's a document written by trained attorneys and presented to a guy that either gets to play football for millions or flip burgers for a living.

Once again, I know the argument will be 'well they just didn't have to play', but I can tell you that a jury's not going to buy that when they have actual corpses in front of them.

Besides, the beautiful thing about waivers is that there are very few of them that I can argue are both 1) specific enough to be clear as to what they're addressing and 2) broad enough to cover all contingencies.

Put me in a room with any document you draw up, give me enough time, money and manpower and sooner or later I'll figure out a way to attack one of those 2 problems.

It's nowhere near as straightforward as vailpass or Donger are trying to make it. If it were, the NFL would've dealt with stuff like this, injury settlements or even Free Agency a long long time ago. The NFL can't just say 'here it is, take it or leave it', or we wouldn't have FA or exorbitant salaries now would we?

ChiefsCountry
05-02-2012, 01:37 PM
Yep. And it is sheer lunacy. There is implied consent there that should relieve the NFL of any punitive liability.

I agree with this. Nobody forced any player to play football in the NFL, its their choice and risk to earn the income and lifestyle that comes with it.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:37 PM
If you want to watch NFL games in 10 years, I would be concerned. And I would start demanding higher standards.

I have already started demanding higher standards. Less QB protection, less restrictive rules on defenders being able to hit, the return of the wedge on kickoffs, etc.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:37 PM
Here's a great (very lengthy) New Yorker article from last year: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/01/31/110131fa_fact_mcgrath

KCUnited
05-02-2012, 01:37 PM
More kids playing soccer.

Brock
05-02-2012, 01:37 PM
Oh, well, if it's gonna' be THAT kind of party I don't want to stay anyway.

What type of things would you look for in the backgrounds of jurors in a case like that?
NFL fan status? Political bent?

Everything. There wouldn't be any NFL fans on that jury for sure.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:38 PM
If I wanted to remain in that jury pool I assure you I could do so.

Go ahead and lie under voir dire; we'll make sure that whatever verdict you're a part of gets tossed out and by God we'll try again.

Chiefnj2
05-02-2012, 01:38 PM
And it would still likely be considered a contract of adhesion; afterall it's hardly an arms-length transaction. It's a document written by trained attorneys and presented to a guy that either gets to play football for millions or flip burgers for a living.



Adhesion contract when they are represented by licensed agents?

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:39 PM
Oh, well, if it's gonna' be THAT kind of party I don't want to stay anyway.

What type of things would you look for in the backgrounds of jurors in a case like that?
NFL fan status? Political bent?

Plaintiffs want mothers.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:39 PM
And it would still likely be considered a contract of adhesion; afterall it's hardly an arms-length transaction. It's a document written by trained attorneys and presented to a guy that either gets to play football for millions or flip burgers for a living.

Once again, I know the argument will be 'well they just didn't have to play', but I can tell you that a jury's not going to buy that when they have actual corpses in front of them.

Besides, the beautiful thing about waivers is that there are very few of them that I can argue are both 1) specific enough to be clear as to what they're addressing and 2) broad enough to cover all contingencies.

Put me in a room with any document you draw up, give me enough time, money and manpower and sooner or later I'll figure out a way to attack one of those 2 problems.

It's nowhere near as straightforward as vailpass or Donger are trying to make it. If it were, the NFL would've dealt with stuff like this, injury settlements or even Free Agency a long long time ago. The NFL can't just say 'here it is, take it or leave it', or we wouldn't have FA or exorbitant salaries now would we?

I'm sure you are the toast of the bar there in Columbia, MO however I don't discount the possibility that the NFL may be able to locate and afford competent counsel of it's own.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:40 PM
Everything. There wouldn't be any NFL fans on that jury for sure.

And I can't imagine a judge in the country that would have a problem with you striking a juror for cause when he claims to be a fan of the billion dollar defendant...

You can strike as many for jurors for cause as they have eligible jurors. And if you run out, we'll just bring in more.

Either risk having the entire trial overturned for lying during voir dire, or every person in this thread will end up getting tossed off the jury.

Donger
05-02-2012, 01:41 PM
Just like the woman that put a cup of coffee between her legs and suffered 2nd degree burns for it.

Sure, she put hot coffee where she shouldn't have, but McDonalds knew that the coffee was hot enough to cause burns leading to skin-grafs and did nothing about it.

A so called 'acceptance' of the risks here isn't going to get the NFL off the hook - it never gets the deepest pockets off the hook.

Juries do what they do. They'll see the faceless conglomerate of super-wealthy individuals that had concussion studies done and ignored and they'll compare those to the individual plaintiffs, be they players or the families of players that died.

Don't coach - bet. What you think the jury should do is irrelevant. What you claim you would do where you a 1-man jury is equally irrelevant (afterall, both you and veilpass would get your asses bounced from the pool). History tells us what the jury will do.

Ignore it at your own peril.

Oh sure, juries will be juries. I was specifically referring to the apparent victimization that some here are affording the players. I would think that even the dimmest player in the NFL would strap on that helmet for the first time and think, "Hmmm, helmet eh? Is this dangerous and violent?"

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:41 PM
Adhesion contract when they are represented by licensed agents?

Pretty much, yes.

They can ultimately have someone else review it, but their choices remain the same as presented by vailpass - sign it or don't play.

Go ahead and throw that in front of your average juror and see how it plays.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:41 PM
Everything. There wouldn't be any NFL fans on that jury for sure.

Would this be a federal case?

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:43 PM
Pretty much, yes.

They can ultimately have someone else review it, but their choices remain the same as presented by vailpass - sign it or don't play.

Go ahead and throw that in front of your average juror and see how it plays.

It would play just fine with me and everyone I know and seems to me it would play out as fair with a majority of Americans.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:43 PM
I'm sure you are the toast of the bar there in Columbia, MO however I don't discount the possibility that the NFL may be able to locate and afford competent counsel of it's own.

Indeed they will - it's why they'll end up in, at best, the same coin-flip scenario I've already mentioned.

You're simply out of your depth here if you truly believe there's some piece of paper the NFL can just hand every player and HUZZAH - no liability.

It's not going to work that way.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:44 PM
It would play just fine with me and everyone I know and seems to me it would play out as fair with a majority of Americans.

When they're talking, sure.

Not when they're on a jury. It never does.

Chocolate Hog
05-02-2012, 01:44 PM
To play Devil's Advocate here DJ aren't we getting ahead of ourselves? How do we know this depression was caused by concussions in Seau's case and that he hasn't had depression in his life or maybe went through some things recently?

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:46 PM
Indeed they will - it's why they'll end up in, at best, the same coin-flip scenario I've already mentioned.

You're simply out of your depth here if you truly believe there's some piece of paper the NFL can just hand every player and HUZZAH - no liability.

It's not going to work that way.

What I believe is that the court will recognize the compelling interest of the business and the communities that draw great benefit from said business to approve an agreement that makes it feasible for the NFL to continue to deliver a product sufficiently in keeping with that to which the consumer has become accustomed.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:47 PM
When they're talking, sure.

Not when they're on a jury. It never does.

Maybe in Columbia, MO.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:47 PM
Would this be a federal case?

A class action against the NFL would be. Even if it was initially brought in a state court, I think the NFL would want to move it to the federal courts, which has more benefits for corporate defendants. Higher burdens for allegations (the Iqbal standard, iirc).

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:48 PM
To play Devil's Advocate here DJ aren't we getting ahead of ourselves? How do we know this depression was caused by concussions in Seau's case and that he hasn't had depression in his life or maybe went through some things recently?

We don't know anything yet.

Really this has become an unfortunate tangent in the Seau thread. I should probably just let the Seau discussion go on its own.

But don't you think it's probably better than 50/50 that we end up finding some of that same repetitive force trauma in Saeu's dome that they found in the Bear's safeties? Or Webster's?

I don't think this is going to cripple the NFL by any means. Ultimately I think this will blow over just like everything else does (we love our football).

But I do think that the NFL is pretty smart to start preparing themselves for some kind of pretty direct assault.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:48 PM
A class action against the NFL would be. Even if it was initially brought in a state court, I think the NFL would want to move it to the federal courts, which has more benefits for corporate defendants.

You anticipated the reasoning behind my question. What, do you study this stuff or something?

Rain Man
05-02-2012, 01:49 PM
Oh sure, juries will be juries. I was specifically referring to the apparent victimization that some here are affording the players. I would think that even the dimmest player in the NFL would strap on that helmet for the first time and think, "Hmmm, helmet eh? Is this dangerous and violent?"

I dunno. Young men are not good at calculating risk on stuff like this.

It does make me wonder, though, why guys like Dave Duerson and Mike Webster go down and guys like Willie Lanier and Jerry Kramer cruise into old age. Is it a hardwired risk of physiology that could one day be predicted, or did the Duerson/Webster cohort just take one unlucky hit that kickstarted an irreversible process?

Chocolate Hog
05-02-2012, 01:52 PM
We don't know anything yet.

Really this has become an unfortunate tangent in the Seau thread. I should probably just let the Seau discussion go on its own.

But don't you think it's probably better than 50/50 that we end up finding some of that same repetitive force trauma in Saeu's dome that they found in the Bear's safeties? Or Webster's?

I don't think this is going to cripple the NFL by any means. Ultimately I think this will blow over just like everything else does (we love our football).

But I do think that the NFL is pretty smart to start preparing themselves for some kind of pretty direct assault.


I think it does but my friend who's in the medical science field has brought up some damn good points. How do we know this is all from concussions and not something like steroids or the lifestyles in some of these guys live? He said a basic fact of science: You cannot prove causality by linking two variables together.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:53 PM
You anticipated the reasoning behind my question. What, do you study this stuff or something?

I avoided studying civil procedure like the plague. Dreadfully dull. But I think half of the semester's lectures were spent on the new Twombly/Iqbal standard under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure that plaintiffs get shafted with. That was hard to miss.

Marcellus
05-02-2012, 01:53 PM
Just like the woman that put a cup of coffee between her legs and suffered 2nd degree burns for it.

Sure, she put hot coffee where she shouldn't have, but McDonalds knew that the coffee was hot enough to cause burns leading to skin-grafs and did nothing about it.

A so called 'acceptance' of the risks here isn't going to get the NFL off the hook - it never gets the deepest pockets off the hook.

Juries do what they do. They'll see the faceless conglomerate of super-wealthy individuals that had concussion studies done and ignored and they'll compare those to the individual plaintiffs, be they players or the families of players that died.

Don't coach - bet. What you think the jury should do is irrelevant. What you claim you would do where you a 1-man jury is equally irrelevant (afterall, both you and veilpass would get your asses bounced from the pool). History tells us what the jury will do.

Ignore it at your own peril.

So why is the NFLPA not responsible for not looking out for their players health? Wouldn't that be THIER job? Isn't that the entire point of a Union?

La literatura
05-02-2012, 01:54 PM
I think it does but my friend who's in the medical science field has brought up some damn good points. How do we know this is all from concussions and not something like steroids or the lifestyles in some of these guys live? He said a basic fact of science: You cannot prove causality by linking two variables together.

Only thing you need in a civil action is more likely than not. That's 50% + 1. Pretty low burden for billions of dollars, potentially.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 01:56 PM
So why is the NFLPA not responsible for not looking out for their players health? Wouldn't that be THIER job? Isn't that the entire point of a Union?

You don't think the NFLPA is going to end up as a possible co-defendant?

It wouldn't surprise me for a minute.

vailpass
05-02-2012, 01:58 PM
I avoided studying civil procedure like the plague. Dreadfully dull. But I think half of the semester's lectures were spent on the new Twombly/Iqbal standard under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure that plaintiffs get shafted with.

Good. Your country needs you to be an advocate for change in getting sweeping and effective Tort Reform enacted.

philfree
05-02-2012, 01:58 PM
RIP Jr.

How do they blame only the NFL when most of the players have played 5-8 years of football beginng in HS and going through college. I guess I shouldn't forget middle school. And alot of kids start playing organized football when they're 5-6 years old? Shit I played when I was 6. Are all the colleges going to get sued too? The BCS? Football runs deep in this country.

tk13
05-02-2012, 01:58 PM
I don't know about the legal aspect of it, but if they find brain trauma like they did with Duerson it can't be good. Especially with this bountygate stuff going on, and a coach telling players to affect the head. The crackdown on head contact will probably be even stronger.

It's definitely curious that Seau shot himself in the chest just like Duerson did.
Posted via Mobile Device

gblowfish
05-02-2012, 01:59 PM
Mixed feelings about this. As a Chiefs fan, I hated Seau. He was a showboat, a rub your nose in it kind of guy. Held Gonzalez in pass coverage a lot, took late hits at guys like his pal Rodney Harrison.

From his behavior the last few years, sounds like he's either Roid Raged, Brain Damaged or both. Feel bad for his three kids.

DT didn't eat a shotgun blast. He was speeding on a slick patch of interstate and flipped the SUV he was driving. He was off to catch a flight at KCI. He had a lot to live for. And he died from a blood clot from his injuries a few days later. He didn't voluntarily off himself.

I'm sure San Diego will be wearing black "55s" on their jerseys this year. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for the guy. Ultimately, everything that you do will come back to you, as they say.

AeroSquid
05-02-2012, 01:59 PM
he kicked our asses on many a sunday. what a shitty end. i was thinking... i can't say he was a good man because i didn't know him. chances are he was involved in many charities as most top tier NFL players are. In any case i admired his talent and loved to watch him play. he was damn good.

ChiefRocka
05-02-2012, 01:59 PM
I'd like to think the last thing that passed through his mind, other than that bullet, was how the hell Ray Lewis got the best of him...

vailpass
05-02-2012, 02:00 PM
Only thing you need in a civil action is more likely than not. That's 50% + 1. Pretty low burden for billions of dollars, potentially.

Then let the NFL reach a settlement here and work with the court to enact measures to allow potential players to waive their right to sue in exchange for as many protective measures as can be allowed without negatively impacting the nature of the game.

htismaqe
05-02-2012, 02:01 PM
RIP Jr.

How do they blame only the NFL when most of the players have played 5-8 years of football beginng in HS and going through college. I guess I shouldn't forget middle school. And alot of kids start playing organized football when they're 5-6 years old? Shit I played when I was 6. Are all the colleges going to get sued too? The BCS? Football runs deep in this country.

The other thing - something that I think is all too easily dismissed when discussing football players - is a type of depression that is most common among entertainers, particularly child stars and musicians.

All of us stew about getting older. But most of us have no idea what it feels like to be on top of the world, rich and famous, and then suddenly one day it's no longer there simply because you aged.

Bump
05-02-2012, 02:01 PM
I can't believe I didn't put him on my celebrity death pool

La literatura
05-02-2012, 02:02 PM
RIP Jr.

How do they blame only the NFL when most of the players have played 5-8 years of football beginng in HS and going through college. I guess I shouldn't forget middle school. And alot of kids start playing organized football when they're 5-6 years old? Shit I played when I was 6. Are all the colleges going to get sued too? The BCS? Football runs deep in this country.

NCAA is also bracing itself for a lawsuit. It's going to get ripped open and examined in the next few years. Malcolm Gladwell just wrote a piece about banning it. That might not be too hard if federal funds are tied into schools.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 02:03 PM
I think it does but my friend who's in the medical science field has brought up some damn good points. How do we know this is all from concussions and not something like steroids or the lifestyles in some of these guys live? He said a basic fact of science: You cannot prove causality by linking two variables together.

And that would be the best argument to make.

The 'assumption of risk' argument will be bunk, IMO. A jury just isn't going to care. If you are able to prove that playing NFL football was the primary cause for increased mental illness, suicide rates, etc...; you're going to get a verdict.

But the toughest part will absolutely be showing that the NFL is the cause of it. I'm inclined to agree with you that there are some chemical connections to some of these issues (que Retardian to come in here spouting about how much smarter steroids make you) and that's going to be a clear point of contention.

There's your line in the sand, IMO. But the cigarette companies tried a similar approach when they argued that all links between thinks like emphysema and lung cancer were circumstantial (i.e. lots of people with lung cancer smoke but there's no scientific proof that the smoking caused the lung cancer) - and they pretty much got hammered on it. From what I've seen, they are technically accurate, but the circumstantial evidence (cancer rates among smokers, etc...) was just so overwhelming that it was a no-brainer loss.

If the circumstantial evidence keeps getting worse, the argument's just going to get harder to make.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:04 PM
The other thing - something that I think is all too easily dismissed when discussing football players - is a type of depression that is most common among entertainers, particularly child stars and musicians.

All of us stew about getting older. But most of us have no idea what it feels like to be on top of the world, rich and famous, and then suddenly one day it's no longer there simply because you aged.

"top of the world" is a state of mind. It happens to all of us.

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 02:06 PM
I avoided studying civil procedure like the plague. Dreadfully dull. But I think half of the semester's lectures were spent on the new Twombly/Iqbal standard under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure that plaintiffs get shafted with. That was hard to miss.

Those are mostly pleading problems though.

I can't see how a suit along these lines wouldn't survive a Mx to dismiss. From there, it's just going to be the standard preponderance requirements.

I guess it could come into play here, but I really don't see how Twombly would really make an impact.

htismaqe
05-02-2012, 02:07 PM
"top of the world" is a state of mind. It happens to all of us.

Millions of dollars and dozens of groupies does NOT happen to all of us.

scott free
05-02-2012, 02:09 PM
RIP Junior, always loved the way he played the game & he seemed to be a nice guy as well.

Frazod
05-02-2012, 02:10 PM
Millions of dollars and dozens of groupies does NOT happen to all of us.

True, but if it happens to you all the time, you get used to it, and then it's just the same old same old.

I remember the conversation I had with the guy who installed my home alarm system - he lived with a smoking hot bisexual nymphomaniac - every night she'd go out and bring home a different gorgeous woman and they'd have three-way sex all night long. He said he was sick of it. Just wanted to have regular sex and get some sleep. Part of me wanted to fucking kill him, but the other part saw his point.

Los Pollos Hermanos
05-02-2012, 02:10 PM
Real men don't shoot themselves.

Signed,
Steve McNair

The Dawg
05-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Never liked him as a player, but this is still a sad story.

I'd like to see if this was related to concussions/ brain damage / roids / etc....

Did Seau have a history of concussion problems?

La literatura
05-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Those are mostly pleading problems though.

I can't see how a suit along these lines wouldn't survive a Mx to dismiss. From there, it's just going to be the standard preponderance requirements.

I guess it could come into play here, but I really don't see how Twombly would really make an impact.

Well, my understanding is just that it's completely changed the ballgame for litigants, and that initial hurdle is like a 12 foot canyon now.

I agree though, that a suit, especially a class action suit with the NFLPA would be able to take that on, much better than your average litigant. Especially when, as I see it, your evidence is pretty strong.

Just some things to think about. Kind of interesting. Not interesting enough for me to want to practice civil litigation in the federal courts, though.

AeroSquid
05-02-2012, 02:12 PM
I'd like to think the last thing that passed through his mind, other than that bullet, was how the hell Ray Lewis got the best of him...

not funny. even though he shot himself in the chest.

Rain Man
05-02-2012, 02:12 PM
True, but if it happens to you all the time, you get used to it, and then it's just the same old same old.

I remember the conversation I had with the guy who installed my home alarm system - he lived with a smoking hot bisexual nymphomaniac - every night she'd go out and bring home a different gorgeous woman and they'd have three-way sex all night long. He said he was sick of it. Just wanted to have regular sex and get some sleep. Part of me wanted to ****ing kill him, but the other part saw his point.

Yeah, I could see how that could get old after, say, a couple of hundred years.

Chocolate Hog
05-02-2012, 02:13 PM
Well if the tobacco industry is still around i'd imagine the NFL will stick around. Theres some more rules changes they can do but I also think the NFLPA is going to have to take a stand as well. Guys targeting guys who've had concussions will have to stop and guys like Harrison should be banned.

htismaqe
05-02-2012, 02:14 PM
True, but if it happens to you all the time, you get used to it, and then it's just the same old same old.

That's just the thing. Many of these guys spend years working their way to the top only to have it end VERY suddenly.

Pestilence
05-02-2012, 02:15 PM
Brendon Ayanbadejo ‏ @brendon310

Jr Seau asked in his suicide letter that his brain be researched to prevent tragic incidents from happening to NFL retirees #champion

Saxman
05-02-2012, 02:16 PM
Bring him in for a look?

I figured a Chiefs fan would want to bring in Derrick Thomas...

...RIP, Junior Seau!

htismaqe
05-02-2012, 02:18 PM
Brendon Ayanbadejo ‏ @brendon310

Jr Seau asked in his suicide letter that his brain be researched to prevent tragic incidents from happening to NFL retirees #champion

So he copied Duerson almost exactly?

DJ's left nut
05-02-2012, 02:25 PM
So he copied Duerson almost exactly?

So where Lawrence Taylor set the blueprint for the modern NFL linebacker, Dave Duerson has established the blueprint for the modern NFL suicide.

Not the easiest way to go, it wouldn't seem.

Amnorix
05-02-2012, 02:27 PM
I avoided studying civil procedure like the plague. Dreadfully dull. But I think half of the semester's lectures were spent on the new Twombly/Iqbal standard under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure that plaintiffs get shafted with. That was hard to miss.


Speaking for the other side of the coin, Twombly/Iqbal are there to clean out cases that are extremely weak anyway BEFORE the massive expense of discovery is incurred. You have no idea whatsoever how expensive, time-consuming and distracting discovery is in the new e-Discovery era.

If a case can't survive Twombly/Iqbal analysis, then it wasn't going anywhere anyway, except to put some money in some lawyers' pockets.

Amnorix
05-02-2012, 02:30 PM
Good. Your country needs you to be an advocate for change in getting sweeping and effective Tort Reform enacted.

He seems to be advocating the other way -- that the standard for cases surviving motions to dismiss are too HIGH.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 02:31 PM
Speaking for the other side of the coin, Twombly/Iqbal are there to clean out cases that are extremely weak anyway BEFORE the massive expense of discovery is incurred. You have no idea whatsoever how expensive, time-consuming and distracting discovery is in the new e-Discovery era.

If a case can't survive Twombly/Iqbal analysis, then it wasn't going anywhere anyway, except to put some money in some lawyers' pockets.

I agree with that. I didn't mean to put a real negative spin on the new standard, and it wasn't presented to us as a negative either. Just made clear to us that the stakes were raised to a new level for the plaintiff.

Donger
05-02-2012, 02:32 PM
Great, a lawyer fight. Let's kill them all.

Inspector
05-02-2012, 02:33 PM
Curious to know what % of football players do this compared to the % of non football players.

And would there ever be a way to prove that he would NOT have done this if he had spent his career working for the phone company or something. I knew a guy who did this same thing but never played football.

This will probably get interesting.

Sad news for sure. Hated the guy as a football player but sad to see anyone go out before they need to.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 02:34 PM
Great, a lawyer fight. Let's kill them all.

When they're all bunched up together, you just throw a net over them or something?

scho63
05-02-2012, 02:34 PM
How sad....another NFL'er committing suicide. Hope this isn't a trend

Radar Chief
05-02-2012, 02:36 PM
When they're all bunched up together, you just throw a net over them or something?

Nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

Rain Man
05-02-2012, 02:37 PM
Didn't he lose his house in one of the wildfires? And I vaguely recall some other big setback, maybe with a restaurant or something. I wonder if he was just having problems with civilian life.

Amnorix
05-02-2012, 02:37 PM
I agree with that. I didn't mean to put a real negative spin on the new standard, and it wasn't presented to us as a negative either. Just made clear to us that the stakes were raised to a new level for the plaintiff.


Sure, raised from comically low to extremely low.

La literatura
05-02-2012, 02:43 PM
Sure, raised from comically low to extremely low.

What kind of practical effect do you think it had, though? If you do WestLaw search for case and motions referencing Twombly, you get something around 120K matches. It's like 10x more than 200+ years of cases with reference to Marybury v. Madison.

Practically, it was a huge deal, no?

Pestilence
05-02-2012, 02:47 PM
Seau’s ex-wife, Gina Seau, of Fairbanks Ranch, said that on Tuesday he texted her, and each of their three children, separate messages: “I love you.”

.

listopencil
05-02-2012, 02:50 PM
Horrible news. Of course I made fun of him when he was playing with a rival team, but he was one of those iconic players. I had a tremendous amount of respect for his ability. Just a very sad turn of events.

InChiefsHell
05-02-2012, 02:51 PM
.

Man...

dilligaf
05-02-2012, 02:52 PM
I get that making fun of someone's death is politically incorrect. But one of my best friends is a Charger fan and has made a TON of DT death jokes over the years. So I've been texting the jokes I've read on here and apparently they're not as funny as his...

Frazod
05-02-2012, 02:56 PM
I get that making fun of someone's death is politically incorrect. But one of my best friends is a Charger fan and has made a TON of DT death jokes over the years. So I've been texting the jokes I've read on here and apparently they're not as funny as his...

Funny how that works.

This is a guy I respected. He was a hard-hitting, passionate pain in the ass to us, but I don't ever remember hearing anything about him on or off the field that would make me despise him.

Now, the day some turd like Sharpe or Romanowski offs himself, I'll have a fucking field day with that.

listopencil
05-02-2012, 02:56 PM
I get that making fun of someone's death is politically incorrect. But one of my best friends is a Charger fan and has made a TON of DT death jokes over the years. So I've been texting the jokes I've read on here and apparently they're not as funny as his...

Well...yeah. If someone is a dick over and over, I can understand wanting a bit of turnabout. And this isn't an obituary. Some people joke about these things because that's how they deal with it. Some people joke about it because they don't feel a strong emotional connection to the situation. And some people are just dicks.

redsurfer11
05-02-2012, 03:04 PM
First reaction was the thought of Jim Tyrer.

burt
05-02-2012, 03:08 PM
I didn't know Jr. Seau, and I didn't know much about him. I can not imagine the kind of pain that makes some one kill themself. I feel sadness for his family and friends. I won't be lowering myself to joke about his death. I am embarrassed that my fellow CP'ers here feel compelled to do so.