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Mr. Laz
05-03-2012, 10:35 AM
Elder Scrolls Online Announced
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Posted 13 minutes ago - By Stephen Johnson

The Elder Scrolls Online has been announced by Bethesda. It is being developed for PC and Mac under the leadership of Matt Firor, who has spent the last two decades working in online game development.

“We have been working hard to create an online world in which players will be able to experience the epic Elder Scrolls universe with their friends, something fans have long said they wanted,” said Matt Firor, game director of The Elder Scrolls Online. “It will be extremely rewarding finally to unveil what we have been developing the last several years. The entire team is committed to creating the best MMO ever made – and one that is worthy of The Elder Scrolls franchise.”

Details are scant at this time, but expect a screenshot later today and a teaser trailer tomorrow.

Sofa King
05-03-2012, 10:38 AM
This could be fun.

SuperChief
05-03-2012, 10:52 AM
I really hope they do this right. I'm a big fan of the franchise, but they could royally fuck this one up. I hope not.

kaplin42
05-03-2012, 10:58 AM
I really hope they do this right. I'm a big fan of the franchise, but they could royally **** this one up. I hope not.

As epic as skyrim was, it was also buggy as hell. They better clean that kind of nonesense up quite a bit if they want to be even remotely successful.

That being said, fucking giggity giggity, I'm in.

Frazod
05-03-2012, 11:05 AM
Fuck. I assume this means that every future Elder Scrolls game will be a goddamn MMO now. 4321

QuikSsurfer
05-03-2012, 11:46 AM
I'm interested.

Pants
05-03-2012, 12:47 PM
I'm interested.

Same here, but I'm worried too. Bethesda can't make a balanced SP game to save their lives, not sure how they plan on creating a balanced MP experience (which is a million times more difficult). I won't even mention the bugs, lol.

QuikSsurfer
05-03-2012, 12:51 PM
Same here, but I'm worried too. Bethesda can't make a balanced SP game to save their lives, not sure how they plan on creating a balanced MP experience (which is a million times more difficult). I won't even mention the bugs, lol.

Heh, this is all very true.

Bump
05-03-2012, 12:51 PM
count me in

QuikSsurfer
05-03-2012, 12:57 PM
Elder Scrolls games at launch:

http://cdn.userpics.com/original/ritsa.gif

pr_capone
05-03-2012, 01:26 PM
OUT.

After years of playing their games, Skyrim soured me on bethseda. I'll stick with Guild Wars 2 thank you very much.

drunkie
05-03-2012, 01:26 PM
this company is known for making great games. they own id software the makers of doom am quake so they have the help to build online games. the problem is that while they make great games they are also known for making very buggy games. every game they have made have been filled with bugs. in single player you can deal with bugs a lil better but in a mmo setting you need a game that is very polished else it creates a huge mess. sadly i think this will end up a mess because of there bugs. this company is not good at weeding out the bugs well enough to make a solid mmo

Bump
05-03-2012, 02:27 PM
this company is known for making great games. they own id software the makers of doom am quake so they have the help to build online games. the problem is that while they make great games they are also known for making very buggy games. every game they have made have been filled with bugs. in single player you can deal with bugs a lil better but in a mmo setting you need a game that is very polished else it creates a huge mess. sadly i think this will end up a mess because of there bugs. this company is not good at weeding out the bugs well enough to make a solid mmo

maybe they are aware of that and intend to polish the bugs, or maybe not...

Pants
05-03-2012, 02:27 PM
OUT.

After years of playing their games, Skyrim soured me on bethseda. I'll stick with Guild Wars 2 thank you very much.

I watched some videos from the GW2 beta and it looked pretty cool. I wasn't a big fan of the oversimplified (almost Diablo-like) combat though.

Detoxing
05-03-2012, 02:30 PM
Oh yay. I get to hear more people harass me about how "X" game is the new WoW Killer.

Silock
05-03-2012, 03:24 PM
Lame.

whoman69
05-03-2012, 03:26 PM
Problem with this is modders are the ones that fix most of their glitches. You can't mod an MMO.

Fruit Ninja
05-03-2012, 06:12 PM
Oh yay. I get to hear more people harass me about how "X" game is the new WoW Killer.

The good thing is it doesnt have to be a WOW killer. It just has to be good enough to retain people and make a profit.

Anyways, i like how they are going with the EQ style hotbars. You can only have a certain ammount of abilities to use. Not like games now days where you have 6 bars of abilities open.

3 factions for PVP should be freaking interesting lol

QuikSsurfer
05-03-2012, 09:30 PM
Game Informer info

-Releasing 2013 for PC/Mac
-Developed by ZeniMax Online Studios
-MMORPG
-250 Person Team
-Started development in 2007
-"This time, saving the world from the awakening of ancient evil is only the beginning. What happens when hundreds or thousands of prophesied heroes all think that they should be Emperor?"
-The game is fully voice acted
-Third person perspective
-The game uses a hotbar to activate skills like other traditional MMOs
-Visually it looks like other Hero Engine MMOs like SWTOR
-The general art style is kind of like RIFT or Everquest 2
-You can't be a werewolf or vampire
-Crafting, alchemy, and soul stones will exist in an unrevealed form
-There will be Daedric Princes like Molag Bal, the primary antagonist, and Vaermina, "whose sphere of influence extends to the dream world and the nightmares of mortals", along with some unnamed others
-Constellations will be in the game a la Mundus stones (which work like guardian stones) and also give the answer to things like block puzzles where you step on the blocks in a certain order
-Tons of towns ranging from Imperial City, Windhelm, Daggerfall, Sentinel, Mournhold, Ebonheart, Elden Root, Shornhelm, Evermore, Riften, and a lot more
-Radiant AI will not be present
-There will be mounts, but no flying mounts
-Fast travel exists in the game in the form of wayshrines, which are also your ressurection point, and you can teleport from one wayshrine to any other wayshrine you have already visited
-There most likely won't be dragons
-Sneaking will be in the game, but how it is implemented is undecided
-They're not talking about pets right now
-There will be no player housing
-There will be no NPC romances or marriage
-"It needs to be comfortable for people who are coming in from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players."
-Features most of Tamriel including Skyrim, Morrowind, Summerset Isle, and Elseweyr.
-"Not all provinces are included in their entirety; Zenimax Online is keeping large areas inaccessible to save them for use as expansion content. Nonetheless, every major area is represented to some extent."
-As an example, Windhelm is fully implemented, but Winterhold and the mages' college won't be in at launch.
-There are three player factions:
--Ebonheart Pact: The Nords, Dunmer, and Argoninans
--Aldmeri Dominion: Altmer, Bosmer, and Khajit
--Daggerfall Covenant: Bretons, Redguard, and Orcs
-"Recreateing the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world."
-As such, the game uses a hubless design
-For example, you don't necessarily pick up a quest to do the following, but if you kill all the necromancers in an undead barrow, a shade you free at the end will reward you.
-However, to help you find these events, various NPCs you talk to will tell you where they are happening and put a marker pointing them on your map, which is obviously totally different than receiving a quest.
-Not all quests will have NPCs that indicate where they are
-The game uses MMORPG genre standards such as classes, experience points, and other traditional MMORPG progression mechanics, but they try to present it "around the core fantasy presented by traditiona Elder Scrolls games" such as traveling around and righting wrongs or seeking riches
-The game world is very large relative to Skyrim
-You can explore almost anything you can see
-the game is set 1000 years in the past
-You can't master every discipline
-The imperials are an enemy to all three factions, lead by the noble Tharn family and the King of Worms, Mannimarco, and are hatching a plot to take over all of Tamriel
-But BEHOLD, Mannicmarco is scheming with Daedric prince Molag Bal to take over the world behind the Tharn's back
-Also, your soul has already been stolen by Molag Bal, which is the reason you can come back from death over and over again, and the starting plot is that you're fighting Molag Bal to get your soul back from him
-Hitting the level cap takes about 120 hours
-Each faction has their own leveling content
-An example quest is the story of Camlorn, where you have to stop evil werewolves who have their eyes set on conquest. First, you have to do a "standard MMO kill and collection quest" to sto ghosts from attacking some mages and soldiers. The ghosts are reliving a battle that the werewolf leader was in. You summon a ghost to find out what's going on, and the ghost tells you to wear her dead husband's armor to re-experience the battle he died in. You then get transported hundreds of years into the past to fight this battle. During this battle, you can choose to save the dead man's wife or to pursue the Werewolf leader. ZeniMax chooses to save the man's wife, who then tells you that the Werewolf leader is weak to fire. This information is helpful when you fight him, but you don't actually need to do this quest before fighting the werewolf leader if you don't want to. Basically, you can skip parts of quest chains if you want, but you get some benefit for playing the whole thing. Also, whenever you go back to the town you just saved, everything there hails you as a hero.
-The game features three faction PvP where you fight to take over keeps and use trebuchets and other siege weapons to help do it. At the high end, you can have 100 v 100 battles. There are also farms and mines you can try to take over. Mots of this happens in Cyrodiil where your goal is to take over and hold the Imperial City to get faction wide bonuses for it. If you have played Dark Age of Camelot, this probably sounds familiar. For those who haven't, essentially the entire zone is a giant PvP area will all sorts of points of interest.
-The most accomplished PvP player on your faction becomes emperor whenever you take over the capital
-When you take over Cyrodiil, you will be able to adventure in it as a hostile city a la Kvatch
-The game will have raids and heroic modes for its dungeons as end game content in addition to faction PvP
-There is also balanced PvP for people who prefer eSports
-The game will also have high end public dungeons
-Public dungeons are essentially instances that aren't actually instanced, so anyone can be in them, so imagine a World of Warcraft dungeon that featured everyone on the server in the area instead of just your party
-There are standard instanced dungeons as well
-Back on the topic of the skillbar, you have a limited number of skills you can use at any given time, and can change them whenever you're out of combat
-The number of skills is equal to (paraphrase) "a light and heavy attack with your current weapon that take up the first two slots, a few more spells related to your class, and an ultimate in the last slot".
-The ultimate is used once you gain enough finesse, which is earned by doing well in combat
-You also get a bonus loot chest if you're soloing and max your finesse, and you can also build finesse by comboing with other players
-For example, a rogue can put oil on the ground that a mage can set on fire
-A fighter can also spin in the firestorm a mage puts down, which sends out fireballs
-If you've seen Guild Wars 2 videos, the above will seem familiar
-You can't combo with the abilities of enemy players though, so if an enemy faction player drops an oil slick, you can't set it on fire
-The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood will be presented, but in what form isn't detailed as their contnet is hard to recreate in an MMO setting
-NPCs will try to work together and use player like behavior when fighting you, and (at least to my understanding) have stamina as well
-They want the AI to be good, so instead of enemies in a dungeon sitting around and waiting to be pulled, you will be attacked by the entire room and they will try to react to how you are playing
-The claim was not demo'ed to Game Informer
-You destroy dark anchors to gain reputation with the Fighter's Guild. They are large hooks that fall from the sky pseudorandomly and have Daedric guardians next to them. They are easier to kill with a group, and once destroyed, everyone who participated gets a reputation boost with the Fighter's Guild, and eventually nets you rewards like new skills and abilities.
-The combat model will not be real time due to latency
-The combat is based around a stamina bar which you can use to sprint, block, interrupt, and break incapacitating effects
-Blocking is the primary focus of these abilities, and can do things like stopping the secondary effects of attacks such as an ice spell slowing you
-Stamina also applies to PvP, so stamina management (and wearing down your enemy's stamina) is important, as your crowd control abilities might be on a long cooldown, and if you use them before the enemy player runs out of stamina, they will probably just block the effect
-ZeniMax feels that having the stamina bar will help break down the Holy Trinity as stamina allows you to do things like tank
-However, healing is still a big part of the game
-There is also no aggro mechanic in the game, which is part of the reason stamina blocking and healing exist

Bump
05-03-2012, 09:41 PM
Oh yay. I get to hear more people harass me about how "X" game is the new WoW Killer.

damn, they're still looking for a wow killer?

KILLER_CLOWN
05-03-2012, 11:12 PM
****. I assume this means that every future Elder Scrolls game will be a goddamn MMO now. 4321

My feeling exactly, I much prefer the single player version.

Bump
05-03-2012, 11:48 PM
I just hope they get more than 3 or 4 voice actors for the whole game

Silock
05-04-2012, 01:43 AM
I was gonna play this game, until I took an arrow to the knee.

htismaqe
05-04-2012, 07:21 AM
OUT.

After years of playing their games, Skyrim soured me on bethseda. I'll stick with Guild Wars 2 thank you very much.

It took until Skyrim?

You obviously never played Battlespire - oh wait, I never played it as a new release either because Bethesda "lost" my pre-order...

kaplin42
05-04-2012, 09:37 AM
Game Informer info

Based on the long list of info that I'm omitting from this quote, this game looks like another generic MMO, plus a block feature a la Tera.

Taking odds that this will be the buggiest MMO ever.

If they could have kept the fighting, and interaction with NPC's like Skyrim, it would have been win. But it sounds like their just another theme park pretending to be a sandbox.

In any event, it still may be worth trying out, depending on how bad TOR is by then.

Bump
05-04-2012, 11:13 AM
It took until Skyrim?

You obviously never played Battlespire - oh wait, I never played it as a new release either because Bethesda "lost" my pre-order...

I guess I don't understand your hatred towards Bethesda. Why are you so sour towards them? I've enjoyed all the games I've played by them, but they are only Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim.

Pants
05-04-2012, 11:26 AM
I guess I don't understand your hatred towards Bethesda. Why are you so sour towards them? I've enjoyed all the games I've played by them, but they are only Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim.

Their games are enjoyable but they're buggy as shit and completely imbalanced.

htismaqe
05-04-2012, 11:39 AM
I guess I don't understand your hatred towards Bethesda. Why are you so sour towards them? I've enjoyed all the games I've played by them, but they are only Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim.

I started with Elder Scrolls Arena.

Daggerfall was one of the buggiest games in the history of PC gaming. Even though I never was able to finish Daggerfall due to the bugs, I stuck with them and pre-ordered Battlespire.

I never did receive that pre-order and their customer service ranged from "I know nothing" to "I am going to transfer you to my manager (click)" to "we don't have any record that you pre-ordered anything from us".

KILLER_CLOWN
05-04-2012, 12:44 PM
Their games are enjoyable but they're buggy as shit and completely imbalanced.

That's half the charm, and you have to remember they go places most developers only dream of.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-04-2012, 12:45 PM
I started with Elder Scrolls Arena.

Daggerfall was one of the buggiest games in the history of PC gaming. Even though I never was able to finish Daggerfall due to the bugs, I stuck with them and pre-ordered Battlespire.

I never did receive that pre-order and their customer service ranged from "I know nothing" to "I am going to transfer you to my manager (click)" to "we don't have any record that you pre-ordered anything from us".

You must be as old as me, and I loved Daggerfall despite having 300+ hours invested in a character only to get stuck on the stairwell forever in my own house...lolz. Arena was fun as well. Battlespire was just pure fail all the way around, the game sucked ass. It was billed as more of an action game to compete with..i believe ....was it die by the sword?

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/I-lvqEs7aJ0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Detoxing
05-04-2012, 01:31 PM
I like the idea of stealing DAoC's PvP System. Their PvP system was soooo much fun.

ChiefFripp
05-04-2012, 01:33 PM
Hopefully they have more than 5 people doing the character voices.

R.I.P. MCA.

Frazod
05-04-2012, 01:41 PM
Hopefully they have more than 5 people doing the character voices.

R.I.P. MCA.

Or get people who can at least change up accents, speaking styles, etc. How hard can it be, especially if you're reading prepared material? :shake:

Valiant
05-04-2012, 01:50 PM
As epic as skyrim was, it was also buggy as hell. They better clean that kind of nonesense up quite a bit if they want to be even remotely successful.

That being said, ****ing giggity giggity, I'm in.

Uhh that is how mmo's are. Buggy as fuck when released. The crowd is used to it. They could be 10x buggier then skyrim and it is fine the procedures.

Valiant
05-04-2012, 01:59 PM
Game Informer info

If they can recreate daoc, then awesome. But they will have to leave it somewhat difficult.

kaplin42
05-04-2012, 02:37 PM
Uhh that is how mmo's are. Buggy as **** when released. The crowd is used to it. They could be 10x buggier then skyrim and it is fine the procedures.

Rift was not, in fact buggy as hell. Class balancing issues sure, but not buggy as hell.

TOR on the other hand, OMFG, it's just terrible.

I've been playing MMO's for over 10 years, I know what the genre is like. I also know that a single player game is a lot easier to design than an MMO. And Bethsada can't even put out one of those that is within the accpetable realm of buggyness, I honestly fear their MMO will be nye unplayble due to the bugs.

jspchief
05-04-2012, 06:29 PM
Oh yay. I get to hear more people harass me about how "X" game is the new WoW Killer.

There will never be a single "wow killer".

WoW will die a death by a thousand cuts, most of them self inflicted.

drunkie
05-04-2012, 06:59 PM
There will never be a single "wow killer".

WoW will die a death by a thousand cuts, most of them self inflicted.


if wow doesn't kill itself off with the easy mode crap there will be a wow killer. it is code named titan. the company has such a blind following that there next mmo will break records. an for anyone that doesn't know that company is blizzard. titan is there next mmo being worked on

Von Dumbass
08-23-2013, 12:14 PM
Bethesda confirms business model for upcoming fantasy MMO game; monthly subscription will cost $14.99/€12.99/£8.99.http://www.gamespot.com/gamescom/elder-scrolls-online-will-have-subscription-fee-6413369/

jd1020
08-23-2013, 12:54 PM
if wow doesn't kill itself off with the easy mode crap there will be a wow killer. it is code named titan. the company has such a blind following that there next mmo will break records. an for anyone that doesn't know that company is blizzard. titan is there next mmo being worked on

Every hyped MMO coming out reaches like 1-2M subs and then dies off. I wouldn't be surprised if Titan follows the same fate, especially after seeing the recent offerings from Blizzard. People wont play a game that sucks no matter who puts the stamp on the front. Hell... even Blizzard thought Titan sucked and scrapped it to start over. It must have been pretty ****ing awful for them to do that while releasing D3.

hometeam
08-23-2013, 03:07 PM
Every hyped MMO coming out reaches like 1-2M subs and then dies off. I wouldn't be surprised if Titan follows the same fate, especially after seeing the recent offerings from Blizzard. People wont play a game that sucks no matter who puts the stamp on the front. Hell... even Blizzard thought Titan sucked and scrapped it to start over. It must have been pretty ****ing awful for them to do that while releasing D3.

Guildwars 2 is still kicking extremely strong, after Chinese launch I expect it to dethrone WoW with concurrent players.

Of course, GW2 has no subscription fee, and MMO developers that are not taking notice of this are doing themselves a disservice.

Pants
08-23-2013, 09:24 PM
Guildwars 2 is still kicking extremely strong, after Chinese launch I expect it to dethrone WoW with concurrent players.

Of course, GW2 has no subscription fee, and MMO developers that are not taking notice of this are doing themselves a disservice.

I'd rather pay $15/mo for something as amazing as Ahn'Qiraj-age WoW.

Setsuna
08-23-2013, 10:01 PM
If anyone is interested in this game, then watch the videos of Shoddy Cast. Those guys are diehard Elder Scrolls fans and exclusively have videos about ESO development and content.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-26-2013, 12:54 AM
Guildwars 2 is still kicking extremely strong, after Chinese launch I expect it to dethrone WoW with concurrent players.

Of course, GW2 has no subscription fee, and MMO developers that are not taking notice of this are doing themselves a disservice.

I love the GW2 model but the game kinda blows. Free to play is the wave of the future, I mean Warframe has better graphics/gameplay/reward system and you don't have to spend a dime.

MTG#10
09-07-2013, 04:27 PM
Got to play this for a couple hours yesterday for a beta stress test. Still needs some touching up but it was fucking great. Still don't think Im going to buy it though, I cant get myself to pay $60 for a game then have to pay $15/month just to play the damn thing.

Sandy Cheeks
09-07-2013, 04:31 PM
Not a fan of MMOs anyway, but I will get this one and enjoy the single player. I played so many hours of Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. I expect this one to be as or more amazing and deep. PBJ

Bump
09-10-2013, 07:45 PM
Got to play this for a couple hours yesterday for a beta stress test. Still needs some touching up but it was ****ing great. Still don't think Im going to buy it though, I cant get myself to pay $60 for a game then have to pay $15/month just to play the damn thing.

$60 for game
$15/mo
Plus a cash shop


sorry, but triple dipping breaks the chip.

kaplin42
09-11-2013, 10:16 AM
$60 for game
$15/mo
Plus a cash shop


sorry, but triple dipping breaks the chip.

Meh, the price of the game, plus the monthly fee is MMO standard. The cash shop is what gets me. As long as it doesn't offer any real benefit, i.e. NOT "pay to win" but offers fluff stuff like different mount models that don't exceed the speed of your current fastest mount, then I don't really care. It provides variety and people will buy that stuff up like crazy letting the company earn extra money.

When the cash shop = "pay to win" then I'm all out. Takes the fun right out of the game.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-11-2013, 10:53 AM
Why would I pay full price of the game plus $15/month? Never seen a reason to do that and this won't suck me in either.

Mr. Laz
09-11-2013, 11:26 AM
$60 for game
$15/mo
Plus a cash shop

sorry, but triple dipping breaks the chip.Why would I pay full price of the game plus $15/month? Never seen a reason to do that and this won't suck me in either.
you should be happy and glad to pay extra for a good game /Pants /Kegs

kaplin42
09-11-2013, 12:36 PM
Why would I pay full price of the game plus $15/month? Never seen a reason to do that and this won't suck me in either.

Not that I'm going to convince you otherwise, but try to think of it this way. An MMO is not like other video games. It never, ever ends, there is always something new to do, levels to achieve, items to earn or craft. MMO's are the ultimate pellet maze, getting one pellet, makes you want to run the maze to get more and more.

Unlike games like say Madden where the main game is released, and then there is a few patches, and maybe some DLC (Which you pay for), MMO's are never that finite, and they are an amazing, if not all consuming form of entertainment. There is always someone patching, updating and adding new content.

How much do you pay for cable or satellite? $60 - $150 depending on the channels you get and what not? But let's take the low end of that $60 a month. That $2.00 a day for unlimited entertainment. An MMO is $15 a month or $.50 and day for unlimited entertainment that is engaging, challenging and social, as opposed to staring blankly at a box.

keg in kc
09-11-2013, 12:48 PM
you should be happy and glad to pay extra for a good game /Pants /KegsWhat?

loochy
09-11-2013, 12:50 PM
$60 for game
$15/mo
Plus a cash shop


sorry, but triple dipping breaks the chip.

hey man! long time no see!

KILLER_CLOWN
09-11-2013, 01:11 PM
Not that I'm going to convince you otherwise, but try to think of it this way. An MMO is not like other video games. It never, ever ends, there is always something new to do, levels to achieve, items to earn or craft. MMO's are the ultimate pellet maze, getting one pellet, makes you want to run the maze to get more and more.

Unlike games like say Madden where the main game is released, and then there is a few patches, and maybe some DLC (Which you pay for), MMO's are never that finite, and they are an amazing, if not all consuming form of entertainment. There is always someone patching, updating and adding new content.

How much do you pay for cable or satellite? $60 - $150 depending on the channels you get and what not? But let's take the low end of that $60 a month. That $2.00 a day for unlimited entertainment. An MMO is $15 a month or $.50 and day for unlimited entertainment that is engaging, challenging and social, as opposed to staring blankly at a box.

I get what you're saying I really do, i'm playing Warframe right now and it does all that better than any other game i've played including WOW on private servers and guess what it is COMPLETELY FREE.

Pants
09-11-2013, 08:42 PM
you should be happy and glad to pay extra for a good game /Pants /Kegs

For the amount of entertainment one can get from a good MMO, $15/month is pretty much free.

I pay that much money to go see a 2 hour movie in IMAX 3D. I can very easily justify paying $15 for 100 hours of solid entertainment. That's what, 15 cents an hour? Ya, like I said... free.

whoman69
09-12-2013, 07:21 AM
I'm with the anti paying more crowd. Just because it never ends does not mean you won't get bored with it just as quickly. Additionally after I'm bored with a game I will usually come back to it later. You do that with an MMO you have to start from square one.

kaplin42
09-12-2013, 08:45 AM
I get what you're saying I really do, i'm playing Warframe right now and it does all that better than any other game i've played including WOW on private servers and guess what it is COMPLETELY FREE.

You're right there are tons of MMO's, and I personally believe almost all new MMO's will have some sort of F2P model. I personally don't really like that model, but to each their own.

The reason F2P even exists is because it makes the companies more money that the subscription model. What one could get by being a "Gold" member at $15/mo you can get spend over ten times that a month for in a F2P model. It just doesn't look like it, but $5 here, $3 there, another $10 to have access to that class/itme/area and you're already over the $15/mo rate.

Granted you can play for free and not even ever pay for anything, but you miss a lot of the game that way.

hometeam
09-12-2013, 09:33 AM
You're right there are tons of MMO's, and I personally believe almost all new MMO's will have some sort of F2P model. I personally don't really like that model, but to each their own.

The reason F2P even exists is because it makes the companies more money that the subscription model. What one could get by being a "Gold" member at $15/mo you can get spend over ten times that a month for in a F2P model. It just doesn't look like it, but $5 here, $3 there, another $10 to have access to that class/itme/area and you're already over the $15/mo rate.

Granted you can play for free and not even ever pay for anything, but you miss a lot of the game that way.


Serious MMO's will not have pay to win systems. Pay for aesthetics maybe, pay for a faster leveling experience yes. Pay to win? Not serious MMO's.

See Guild Wars 2.

kaplin42
11-20-2013, 12:19 PM
Look what I got today.

hometeam
11-20-2013, 12:41 PM
Yea, have been seeing it pop up on reddit.

What kind of sucks is there there is no application process, just an email sign up.

So any random dude can get in with any hardware.

I have lots of beta test experience and nasty high end hardware. LEMME PLAY :'(

hometeam
11-20-2013, 12:43 PM
If anyone gets in that isn't interested I will trade a beta key for a copy of torchlight 2, just cause 2, or a smattering of left over humble bundle cd keys. pm me!

kaplin42
11-20-2013, 12:53 PM
Yea, have been seeing it pop up on reddit.

What kind of sucks is there there is no application process, just an email sign up.

So any random dude can get in with any hardware.

I have lots of beta test experience and nasty high end hardware. LEMME PLAY :'(

Im in the same boat though. Been playing MMO's forever, I have beta tested at least 3 of them, and I have high end system as well.

My problem is that this will just be a carbon copy of WoW with better graphics, but extremely dumbed down for the masses.

hometeam
11-20-2013, 01:06 PM
Im in the same boat though. Been playing MMO's forever, I have beta tested at least 3 of them, and I have high end system as well.

My problem is that this will just be a carbon copy of WoW with better graphics, but extremely dumbed down for the masses.

I have been keeping up with it a little bit. Seems like its going to be more like guildwars 2 than wow, and gw2 is a very good game.

Im not saying TESO is going to be great. It might suck.

I still want to try it~

Pants
11-20-2013, 01:35 PM
Im in the same boat though. Been playing MMO's forever, I have beta tested at least 3 of them, and I have high end system as well.

My problem is that this will just be a carbon copy of WoW with better graphics, but extremely dumbed down for the masses.

The fact that there are 3 factions is already going to be a massive improvement over WoW at least in terms of PvP, IMO. But then again, I haven't played WoW since like 2008 or something, so I don't even know how much the game has changed since.

Also, I'm not sure what any one MMO can do to really be different from WoW or even any other MMO. The genre is what it is, there's not that much a developer can do to be drastically different (kind of like FPS games). After all, if you change the formula too much, you're running the risk of destroying the very thing that usually keeps people coming back.

kaplin42
11-20-2013, 01:49 PM
The fact that there are 3 factions is already going to be a massive improvement over WoW at least in terms of PvP, IMO. But then again, I haven't played WoW since like 2008 or something, so I don't even know how much the game has changed since.

Also, I'm not sure what any one MMO can do to really be different from WoW or even any other MMO. The genre is what it is, there's not that much a developer can do to be drastically different (kind of like FPS games). After all, if you change the formula too much, you're running the risk of destroying the very thing that usually keeps people coming back.

Actually I could think of a lot of things that could be done to improve MMO's. Some of it is basic common sense at this point. Any new start up should look back at the last 15 years of MMOing and get a clear idea of what to do.

I'm not saying that they have to change the formula, but some of the features could be improved upon by leaps and bounds.

1.st thing. Stop dumbing down the content. I know this would eliminate all the WoW babies, but so what, some of us liked having a challenge.

QuikSsurfer
11-20-2013, 03:20 PM
Beta... I'm in.

jd1020
11-20-2013, 03:45 PM
1.st thing. Stop dumbing down the content. I know this would eliminate all the WoW babies, but so what, some of us liked having a challenge.

I'd like to play a MMO that doesn't havent instant travel. Everything is instanced these days. What ever happened to exploring? That's the whole point of "massive."

I used to spend entire nights just wall walking around WoW getting into places you weren't suppose to have access to. Then they added flying mounts in the 1st expansion. Pretty much killed exploration but you couldnt use them in pre-expansion content, so cool. Then they made it so you could use them in the original content... **** you! Then they simply just made it to where you open up a menu and queue up and when your queue pops... BAM! Instantly there and when its over you are right back to where you were when the queue popped... DIE IN A FIRE!

hometeam
11-20-2013, 03:51 PM
Damn you beta bastards. Let me innnnn

kaplin42
11-20-2013, 04:24 PM
I'd like to play a MMO that doesn't havent instant travel. Everything is instanced these days. What ever happened to exploring? That's the whole point of "massive."

I agree, as with everything though, it's a fine line. I don't want to sit on a boat for 40 minutes like in EQ1, but I agree with getting rid of instant travel removal so you actually had to make your way to different destinations.

Some quick blurbs about other things I would do:
Tl;dr lots of ideas to fix some features in MMO’s.

Bring back massive, contested dungeons that are hard, but certain areas have rare spawns with a chance to drop nice items i.e. lower guk, Karnor’s Castle, Sebilis.

How to solve the appearance armor issue; Change the way weapons and armor are effective. Instead of having stats on the items, the items have slots, the better the item, the more slots. These slots can be segregated a little bit, for example resistance in some, bonus to hit/crit in others, and then base stat improvement. To fill these slots you need gems or what not, the better the gem, the better the stat improvement. Customize the look you want, with the stats you need. Gems can be assigned to clothing locations, helmet, feet, arm so that you can’t just find the best gem dropping mob in the game and farm it.

Speaking of stats; for ****s sake have the right stats mean something to the right class. I have in two games been told that either strength or dexterity is the stat for my class that will improve everything; instead it has been the opposite in each game. So when you build your armor, you build the wrong stats, and then realize you messed up and now have to obtain different gear. It's called math, hire someone to figure it out for you before you code it in.

Balancing PVE vs PVP; I am so sick of having raiders come into PVP contests with their raid gear and be so much better than the top geared PVP players, and vice versa. Neither one should affect the other. If it says PVP in it, it will be almost useless in a PVE environment, if it doesn't say PVP on it; it will be pointless in a PVP environment. Spells and abilities should have two versions, PVE and PVP. Stop nerfing PVE spells because they are too powerful in PVP. I can't believe over the last 10 years that how to solve this issue hasn't been figured out yet.

Launching a new game; Two things on this; First have enough servers to handle the load, you know you're going to be 1.5x - 3.0x your normal running numbers of players for the first 2 weeks to a month, make sure you can handle the load. Second, stop underestimating your players and have a fully developed end game at launch, with more material to be delivered soon after. I have launched EQ2, Vanguard, DDO, and SWTOR, and have played several others. Of the ones I launched, EQ2 was the only one that had some end game content at launch. And while it’s a small percentage of the player base, some will be max level in 1 to 2 weeks, with a bunch more hitting it within a month. Either have a well-defined end game or suffer the fate of SWTOR. Losing a lot of your player base out of boredom.

Keeping the same old dungeons and raids fun to do; Put them on a tier system, like a lot of games have now. Dungeons are easy, medium and hard, same with raids. This idea works best with raids, but could be used on hard mode dungeons, and maybe variation of on easier mode dungeons. For raids, you have “x” amount of bosses, each boss has “y” amount of abilities. Let’s say 5 bosses, with the easiest boss have 6 abilities and the hardest boss having 15. On easy mode, each boss gets 1/3 of the potential abilities assigned by RNG. So easiest boss would have two abilities, hardest would have five. But, you never know what those abilities are until you fight the mob, and they are always different. The harder the mode of the raid/dungeon, the more abilities they bosses end up having. By doing this, you can never just go in and faceroll the encounters, because you will never know the combinations of abilities that you will be facing. Some days, it will be super easy, others it could be incredibly hard, but every time would be different.

Count Zarth
11-20-2013, 04:51 PM
signed up for beta

http://replygif.net/i/237.gif

Pants
11-20-2013, 05:39 PM
How to solve the appearance armor issue; Change the way weapons and armor are effective. Instead of having stats on the items, the items have slots, the better the item, the more slots. These slots can be segregated a little bit, for example resistance in some, bonus to hit/crit in others, and then base stat improvement. To fill these slots you need gems or what not, the better the gem, the better the stat improvement. Customize the look you want, with the stats you need. Gems can be assigned to clothing locations, helmet, feet, arm so that you can’t just find the best gem dropping mob in the game and farm it.

Speaking of stats; for ****s sake have the right stats mean something to the right class. I have in two games been told that either strength or dexterity is the stat for my class that will improve everything; instead it has been the opposite in each game. So when you build your armor, you build the wrong stats, and then realize you messed up and now have to obtain different gear. It's called math, hire someone to figure it out for you before you code it in.

Balancing PVE vs PVP; I am so sick of having raiders come into PVP contests with their raid gear and be so much better than the top geared PVP players, and vice versa. Neither one should affect the other. If it says PVP in it, it will be almost useless in a PVE environment, if it doesn't say PVP on it; it will be pointless in a PVP environment. Spells and abilities should have two versions, PVE and PVP. Stop nerfing PVE spells because they are too powerful in PVP. I can't believe over the last 10 years that how to solve this issue hasn't been figured out yet.



SW:TOR did both of these things really well. Towards the end, PvE gear was completely useless in PvP. It was ridiculous. I think there definitely has to be some kind of balance for those who prefer one or the other, but you can't just make PvE gear completely useless in PvP because it ruins open world PvP. Maybe you can have arena sets that can only be used in organized PvP... IDK.

Balancing MMOs is definitely not the easiest thing to do.

jd1020
11-20-2013, 05:43 PM
SW:TOR did both of these things really well. Towards the end, PvE gear was completely useless in PvP. It was ridiculous. I think there definitely has to be some kind of balance for those who prefer one or the other, but you can't just make PvE gear completely useless in PvP because it ruins open world PvP. Maybe you can have arena sets that can only be used in organized PvP... IDK.

Balancing MMOs is definitely not the easiest thing to do.

I've never understood why there needs to be separate gear for PVP.

I never had a problem with getting wiped clean by someone who spent the time to get the legendaries in WoW, that's the nature of the beast. I didn't want to spend 8 hours a night 7 days a week farming all the shit needed to run the hardest raids in the game so I accepted that fact.

Now they are switching it to where you only need to play 10 arenas or w/e a week and get the latest and greatest PVP items which will mop the floor with anyone wielding items that probably took 6+ months to get? Come on...

Pants
11-20-2013, 09:59 PM
I've never understood why there needs to be separate gear for PVP.

I never had a problem with getting wiped clean by someone who spent the time to get the legendaries in WoW, that's the nature of the beast. I didn't want to spend 8 hours a night 7 days a week farming all the shit needed to run the hardest raids in the game so I excepted that fact.

Now they are switching it to where you only need to play 10 arenas or w/e a week and get the latest and greatest PVP items which will mop the floor with anyone wielding items that probably took 6+ months to get? Come on...

I get both philosophies. On one hand, you want PvP to be based on skill and not gear. On the other hand, you want the rewards you work so hard for to actually provide a tangible benefit.

I honestly don't know which one I would prefer, they both make sense to me.

MTG#10
11-21-2013, 09:48 AM
I got this too. I participated in the first beta test a few months ago and it was great then, can't wait to see the progress.

kaplin42
11-21-2013, 10:30 AM
I get both philosophies. On one hand, you want PvP to be based on skill and not gear. On the other hand, you want the rewards you work so hard for to actually provide a tangible benefit.

I honestly don't know which one I would prefer, they both make sense to me.

I don't see why you can't have both. Taking the gem slot vision of the gear, why not have two sets of slots for stats, PVE and PVP. When PVP flag is on, the PVP gems apply, when it is off, the PVE stats apply. Yes it's twice the work to get the PVP and PVE stats up for the armor, but that is only if you do both, and not everyone does.

You would get the various gems like you would anything else. Raids, dungeons, quests provide nice gems for PVE. and then PVP battlegrounds/arenas provide nice gems for PVP. You could even extend this to crafting so you wouldn't have to have crafting gear, but you could have gem slots for that.

The organization of this could be easily be done through tabs on your paper doll. And by doing it this way, you can always keep the armor/look that you like, but advance in stats by upgrading the gems.

Pants
11-21-2013, 10:36 AM
I don't see why you can't have both. Taking the gem slot vision of the gear, why not have two sets of slots for stats, PVE and PVP. When PVP flag is on, the PVP gems apply, when it is off, the PVE stats apply. Yes it's twice the work to get the PVP and PVE stats up for the armor, but that is only if you do both, and not everyone does.

You would get the various gems like you would anything else. Raids, dungeons, quests provide nice gems for PVE. and then PVP battlegrounds/arenas provide nice gems for PVP. You could even extend this to crafting so you wouldn't have to have crafting gear, but you could have gem slots for that.

The organization of this could be easily be done through tabs on your paper doll. And by doing it this way, you can always keep the armor/look that you like, but advance in stats by upgrading the gems.

That's exactly how SWTOR was doing it. You had two different sets for PvP and PvE. The only thing is that there were people who did way more PvP than other people and were able to steamroll those who played less due to the gear difference. There is no easy fix for this, I don't think.

kaplin42
11-21-2013, 10:49 AM
That's exactly how SWTOR was doing it. You had two different sets for PvP and PvE. The only thing is that there were people who did way more PvP than other people and were able to steamroll those who played less due to the gear difference. There is no easy fix for this, I don't think.

Not a new idea, but ranked combat according to gear. Similar ideas are being done already. It just needs to be fine tuned a bit. Would be similar to how you have to do easy mode, then normal, then hard mode dungeons. Also, unlike Rift, don't put newly level 50 characters right into the shit storm. They just hit 50, and probably don't have the gear, they are just going to get mowed down.

And to be clear, my ideas are not necessarily original. I stole a lot of things from the various MMO's that I thought they did right. Like the gem slots is sort of a take on the orange gear from SWTOR, just expanded upon.

hometeam
11-21-2013, 11:05 AM
That's exactly how SWTOR was doing it. You had two different sets for PvP and PvE. The only thing is that there were people who did way more PvP than other people and were able to steamroll those who played less due to the gear difference. There is no easy fix for this, I don't think.

Actually, the easy fix is not to have a gear treadmill.

Like the way UO was/is still on free shards. All gear created equal = all skill

kaplin42
11-21-2013, 11:13 AM
Actually, the easy fix is not to have a gear treadmill.

Like the way UO was/is still on free shards. All gear created equal = all skill

Problem with that is, the pellet race. MMO's are built around the pellet system. You do a bunch of stuff, you get a reward, then you do a bunch more stuff, you get another reward. If there is no reward, no much reason to do the stuff.

hometeam
11-21-2013, 11:22 AM
Problem with that is, the pellet race. MMO's are built around the pellet system. You do a bunch of stuff, you get a reward, then you do a bunch more stuff, you get another reward. If there is no reward, no much reason to do the stuff.

Agreed.

With UO the system was get gold = invest in gold sink = gain power/prestige etc.

And with UO you lost your loot, so you had to keep doing stuff to get your gear back, so that you could go out and open world PvP and lose it again.

There will never be another UO, becuase of the way WoW has conditioned people, but it still has me playing 16 years later. So they did something right.

hometeam
11-21-2013, 11:24 AM
BTW still want to play this someone give me access to their account in exchange for steam or origin keys. bf3 anyone? torchlight 2? mirrors edge? fuck ill buy you the brand new WB humble bundle!

DC.chief
11-21-2013, 12:20 PM
I seriously don't remember signing up for the beta but I got an e-mail the other night with the key and access to it.

I gotta stop smoking so much. I'll let you all know how it is. That is if I find the time to.

Nightfyre
11-21-2013, 12:42 PM
Man I haven't played UO in over a decade, but it was the SHIT until EA got ahold of it. Damn you EA.

QuikSsurfer
11-21-2013, 02:57 PM
Downloaded the beta client last night -- just over 20 gigs

Detoxing
11-21-2013, 03:04 PM
Couple Notes here, i'm too lazy to Quote:

1. I agree with JD, WoW became a lot less interesting with the introduction of flying. MMO's are about complete environment immersion, and flying just ruins it. Flying has also killed World PvP. BUT, the game has gotten so huge, there really isn't another option. For their next Xpac, you will not be able to fly until you reach lvl cap and complete a series of Quests, and even that won't be implemented until the first content patch.

2. The Gem Idea wouldn't accomplish anything. MMO's are about optimization, so people will still seek only the best gems. You have the same exact problem. What difference does it make if you're seeking the best helm or seeking the best gem? Either way, everyone's toon will end up being the same from a numbers standpoint. And WoW has already addressed gear appearance customization with the introduction of Transmogrification.

3. PvE vs PvP. This is obviously the most difficult issue, but again, WoW had a decent solution that still needs work. PvE gear scales down in Instanced PvP, and Baseline resiliance was raised on everyone. This allows for two things to happen: Casual PvE'rs can now get into Instanced PvP w/o getting creamed by fully geared PvPers thanks to the Resil change, and Hardcore PvErs don't come in and cream PvPers because their gear becomes normalized in Instanced PvP. The issue is with World PvP, where PvE gear does NOT get normalized.

MTG#10
11-21-2013, 03:24 PM
BTW still want to play this someone give me access to their account in exchange for steam or origin keys. bf3 anyone? torchlight 2? mirrors edge? fuck ill buy you the brand new WB humble bundle!Have any good torrent or nzb site invites?

hometeam
11-21-2013, 03:39 PM
Have any good torrent or nzb site invites?

nope just legit games

kaplin42
11-21-2013, 03:43 PM
Couple Notes here, i'm too lazy to Quote:

1. I agree with JD, WoW became a lot less interesting with the introduction of flying. MMO's are about complete environment immersion, and flying just ruins it. Flying has also killed World PvP. BUT, the game has gotten so huge, there really isn't another option. For their next Xpac, you will not be able to fly until you reach lvl cap and complete a series of Quests, and even that won't be implemented until the first content patch.

2. The Gem Idea wouldn't accomplish anything. MMO's are about optimization, so people will still seek only the best gems. You have the same exact problem. What difference does it make if you're seeking the best helm or seeking the best gem? Either way, everyone's toon will end up being the same from a numbers standpoint. And WoW has already addressed gear appearance customization with the introduction of Transmogrification.

3. PvE vs PvP. This is obviously the most difficult issue, but again, WoW had a decent solution that still needs work. PvE gear scales down in Instanced PvP, and Baseline resiliance was raised on everyone. This allows for two things to happen: Casual PvE'rs can now get into Instanced PvP w/o getting creamed by fully geared PvPers thanks to the Resil change, and Hardcore PvErs don't come in and cream PvPers because their gear becomes normalized in Instanced PvP. The issue is with World PvP, where PvE gear does NOT get normalized.

Don't play WoW, so not sure what you're talking about. And the gem thing only solves the real armor vs appearance armor issue. Of course everyone wants the best stats (see Pellet Race comments above), and so they will all hunt for the same gems, but that's not any different than hunting for the same sword of the neck beard. At least this way, you have all armor looks available to you. Plus you don't have to have appearance armor, PVE armor, PVP armor, crafting gear, and resistance gear.

As far as the PVP thing though, why shouldn't PVP'ers who have devoted hours and hours and hours to that game style be able to cream the nubs that just pop in? I mean have you ever run a raid or dungeon with someone has top tier raid gear? It's not even funny how much more powerful they are, don't see why it shouldn't be the same for PVPer's.

hometeam
11-21-2013, 03:44 PM
I have 2 copy's of torchlight 2, just cause 2, dead space, crysis 2, medal of honor, mirrors edge, C&C3:uprising, dead space 3, battlefield 3

will work trade for beta key for tommorrow

Detoxing
11-21-2013, 04:01 PM
Don't play WoW, so not sure what you're talking about. And the gem thing only solves the real armor vs appearance armor issue. Of course everyone wants the best stats (see Pellet Race comments above), and so they will all hunt for the same gems, but that's not any different than hunting for the same sword of the neck beard. At least this way, you have all armor looks available to you. Plus you don't have to have appearance armor, PVE armor, PVP armor, crafting gear, and resistance gear.

As far as the PVP thing though, why shouldn't PVP'ers who have devoted hours and hours and hours to that game style be able to cream the nubs that just pop in? I mean have you ever run a raid or dungeon with someone has top tier raid gear? It's not even funny how much more powerful they are, don't see why it shouldn't be the same for PVPer's.

With WoW transmog model, there's no need. You can simply copy the appearance of item "A" over to item "B". It makes old content relative again as well since it encourages players to go back to old raids to get that epic staff drop so that you can use its appearance, while at the same time allowing Blizz to continue to create higher end game content with higher gear scores so nothing gets stale.

As far as the PvP thing goes, they DO get to cream noobs. For example:

A Complete PvP set will bring your Gear set score to 522. Lets say some elite PvE guys enters a Battleground with a PvE gear score of 560. That 560 Ilvl will then scale down in stats to 496 once he enters the BG. This ensures that PvE players who are new to PvP dont get completely destroyed but at the same time, keeps it so that having PvP gear in PvP content is actually GREATER than having PvE gear.

Also, WoW gives all players a base Resil of 70%. This means that all dmg done Player to Player is reduced by 70%. This keeps the insane PvE gear from one shotting people in lesser gear. PvP gear awards "PvP Power", which is the anti-Resil. The more PvP Power a person has, the less his dmg can be resisted by the 70% baseline Resil, again helping to add importance to PvP gear in PvP content.

So again, Someone who LOVES PvE and is in full 560 gear can go into PvP and be competitive, but still not as good as someone in 522 PvP gear, that doesn't get downscaled.

Ideas like these are why WoW is the King of the MMO.

Nightfyre
11-21-2013, 04:11 PM
For pvp gear, I think the disparity between new guys and heavily geared guys was too high when I played WoW. What if they did a normalizing system where say the best gear in the instance provides up to 125% of the base stats of a basic pvp armor and gear is then proportionately scaled based on the guy with the best gear.
So maybe the guy has the highest tier armor, but the basic pvp armor provides 50 stamina or whatever. The guy has the best gear, so he will get 125% or 62.5 stamina out of his gear instead of the stated value. Meanwhile the guy with the tier below him gets a smaller proportion - say 120% or 60 stamina. And the guy in the basic armor just gets 100% or 50 stamina. This way, the gear grind is still in effect, but not gamebreaking for entry level players. The percentages, of course are pulled out of my ass, but the idea is sound, imo.

kaplin42
11-21-2013, 04:15 PM
With WoW transmog model, there's no need. You can simply copy the appearance of item "A" over to item "B". It makes old content relative again as well since it encourages players to go back to old raids to get that epic staff drop so that you can use its appearance, while at the same time allowing Blizz to continue to create higher end game content with higher gear scores so nothing gets stale.

As far as the PvP thing goes, they DO get to cream noobs. For example:

A Complete PvP set will bring your Gear set score to 522. Lets say some elite PvE guys enters a Battleground with a PvE gear score of 560. That 560 Ilvl will then scale down in stats to 496 once he enters the BG. This ensures that PvE players who are new to PvP dont get completely destroyed but at the same time, keeps it so that having PvP gear in PvP content is actually GREATER than having PvE gear.

Also, WoW gives all players a base Resil of 70%. This means that all dmg done Player to Player is reduced by 70%. This keeps the insane PvE gear from one shotting people in lesser gear. PvP gear awards "PvP Power", which is the anti-Resil. The more PvP Power a person has, the less his dmg can be resisted by the 70% baseline Resil, again helping to add importance to PvP gear in PvP content.

So again, Someone who LOVES PvE and is in full 560 gear can go into PvP and be competitive, but still not as good as someone in 522 PvP gear, that doesn't get downscaled.

Ideas like these are why WoW is the King of the MMO.

Thanks for the info Detox. Quick question though, how does the PVP gear fair in PVE environments?

Detoxing
11-21-2013, 04:28 PM
Thanks for the info Detox. Quick question though, how does the PVP gear fair in PVE environments?

If you have a full set of PvP 522 gear, you can perform decently in entry level raiding such as "Raid Finder". Raid Finder is Normal Mode Raiding....but on easy Mode with a pick up group. It's basically a scaled down version of a raid designed for casual players who are either not good enough, or simply dont have the time/guild to do Normal Mode raiding. Raid Finder drops PvE gear that would be the next stepping stone to getting into Normal Mode raiding. PvP gear is 522. Raid Finder will drop 528 PvE Gear. Normal Mode Raiding will drop 551.

To sum it up:

PvP Gear: Best Gear for Casual PvP and a MUST have for Rated, organized PvP. Good enough for Casual PvE, NOT good enough for Organized Raid PvE.

PvE Gear: Best Gear for Casual PvE and a MUST for Organized PvE. Good enough for Casual PvP, NOT good enough for Rated, Organized PvP.

Basically, both sets are "Ok" for the other, but excel in the environments they were designed for.

Detoxing
11-21-2013, 04:34 PM
For pvp gear, I think the disparity between new guys and heavily geared guys was too high when I played WoW.

It's changed now as i've explained with Blizz's new Gear Scaling. If you decided to pick up WoW one day and jump into a BG, you won't get your ass kicked the way you use to. You won't top the dmg charts or get Top Killing Blows either, but at least you won't get run over anymore.

kaplin42
11-21-2013, 07:28 PM
I have an IPT invite for anyone if they give their beta invite to Hometeam

hometeam
11-21-2013, 07:31 PM
I have an IPT invite for anyone if they give their beta invite to Hometeam

hooray! MTG?

jspchief
11-21-2013, 07:58 PM
As far as the PVP thing though, why shouldn't PVP'ers who have devoted hours and hours and hours to that game style be able to cream the nubs that just pop in? I mean have you ever run a raid or dungeon with someone has top tier raid gear? It's not even funny how much more powerful they are, don't see why it shouldn't be the same for PVPer's. Because the game maker wants all facets of the game to appeal to everyone. Blizzard has made that mistake with WoW time and again. They try to make it everything for everyone. It's not fun to be behind the curve on pvp gear, and once it happens the rich get richer.

Start slotting players relative to gear, and the wait times between battles gets longer. Not to mention the fruits of your labor are diminished.

hometeam
11-21-2013, 10:34 PM
scored a key in a twitch giveaway.

Will be on about 7:30pm tommorrow barring connection issues etc.

Anyone playing can add me on steam - Falx , there are several, i have a picture of a green goo covered ball as my avi

MTG#10
11-22-2013, 07:21 AM
Already have an IPT account. Doesn't matter anyway, I guess since I already activated my beta code for the first beta test I can't let anyone else use it without giving personal information

scored a key in a twitch giveaway.




Glad to hear it

hometeam
11-22-2013, 06:35 PM
weeeeeeeeelp can create characters but cant load into game. so havent gotten to play yet, anyone else get in?

YES I JUST BROKE THE NDA

hometeam
11-22-2013, 06:38 PM
woops now even login servers are going up and down and giving errors

kaplin42
11-22-2013, 08:34 PM
I have but one thought to give.

Meh

hometeam
11-22-2013, 09:53 PM
I have but one thought to give.

Meh

Yep.

pretty much sucks. will end up being a big fat blemish on the elder scrolls name.

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 09:15 AM
its beta you idiots

hometeam
11-23-2013, 09:22 AM
its beta you idiots

I understand what Beta is. The little things that you know will be fixed on release is not what I am concerned about.

I have Beta tested almost every single MMO since warhammer online.

The game still sucks ass. The game is very much close to being finished. The game engine is shit. The questing is generic and tedious, it is SWTOR in elder scrolls clothing.

You can feel the way the game is setup to grind you out. You can tell the decisions going into this game are ALL about MONEY and not about the gameplay experience.

Mark my words, this game will be f2p by the 18 month mark.

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 10:22 AM
Ouch.

Well, I'll try the beta. LMAO

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 10:25 AM
Did it feel at any point like you were playing an Elder Scrolls game?

hometeam
11-23-2013, 10:38 AM
Did it feel at any point like you were playing an Elder Scrolls game?

The only thing that reminds me of Elder scrolls is one, you have to actually click to do your basic melee attacks, rather than hit 1 (but your other attacks/abilities are on a bar) but the hit box is insane and even if you don't touch the mob with the actual animation you can still damage it. This game is NOT elder scrolls. Repeat. NOT. It shares really nothing but IP and parent company. They fucked this one up.

also, the faces of the player characters models resemble the skyrim counterparts.

Other than that no. Not really. It felt like a very generic, tedious Korean mmo with shitty graphics, and TES IP. :/

Even though they said they wrote a new engine from the ground up after using SWTOR's hero engine to get going I think its likely they copied/tweaked it and called it new, because it feels, looks, and plays like SWTOR except unpolished. TO add to that, even at ULTRA everything maxed out everything the graphics look like something from 2003. Its marginally better than WoW, and I cannot think of any current MMO that has worse graphics. Maybe runescape if you count that.

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 10:41 AM
I liked the graphics in the video previews....is the world at least interesting to explore?

I was looking forward to Elsweyr.

hometeam
11-23-2013, 12:08 PM
I liked the graphics in the video previews....is the world at least interesting to explore?

I was looking forward to Elsweyr.

Smallish instanced areas, generic MMO feel. Just IMO

Have not gotten beyond the first couple of zones, but TBH, I cannot even bring myself to play it. Its that bad.

Sofa King
11-23-2013, 01:01 PM
Well fuck me. I was looking forward to this game.

QuikSsurfer
11-23-2013, 01:04 PM
Did it feel at any point like you were playing an Elder Scrolls game?

Aside from the music, no.... This is headed straight for F2P.

hometeam
11-23-2013, 01:17 PM
Aside from the music, no.... This is headed straight for F2P.

Agreed.

I was excited to login.

That faded after about 20 minutes of gameplay, and even then I played for several hours.

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 01:19 PM
ehhhh

This game is really really bad.

Doubt i'll even bother sticking it out to lvl 10 for pvp.

Environment is bland, animations are horrible, class based, combat is boring, same old mmo quest system, etc.

Feels like a free to play game from 2007.


Game should have been Skyrim+Darkfall. Instead, it's shit+shit.

hometeam
11-23-2013, 01:23 PM
ehhhh

Don't know who wrote that, but that's pretty much it. If your looking for skyrim multiplayer, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 01:54 PM
I'm looking for new adventures in Tamriel.

I really wanted to explore vast, strange lands and enjoy new untold stories.

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 02:43 PM
This game is POWERFULLY GENERIC. feel the thrill of the Bland Boring Linear Quest System (trademark zenimax). see all your favorite ES systems get token boring presence. be done with the game in one easy beta weekend of play!

hometeam
11-23-2013, 02:43 PM
This game is POWERFULLY GENERIC. feel the thrill of the Bland Boring Linear Quest System (trademark zenimax). see all your favorite ES systems get token boring presence. be done with the game in one easy beta weekend of play!

So I take it you got to try it out ? LMAO

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Just passing along a review.

Yech.

hometeam
11-23-2013, 03:42 PM
Just passing along a review.

Yech.

You can play on my account if you wish, I will just change the password to be generic, as I do not plan on playing ever again.

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 04:08 PM
You can play on my account if you wish, I will just change the password to be generic, as I do not plan on playing ever again.

PM me details. Need download link, etc.

hometeam
11-23-2013, 04:15 PM
sent. Is your gigabit internet up yet? should make the 20+ gigs easy to swallow.

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 04:54 PM
Nah, not gonna have fiber until next month.

Gonna test out my neighbor's later.

Count Zarth
11-23-2013, 05:51 PM
puke

You kill a few mobs in between then talk to a few more NPCs, rinse / repeat. It's straight mind numbing. I got to level 6 or 7 before uninstalling.

The quests were bland as fuck. Didn't even need to look at the world, just run towards the waypoint arrow and press E to talk to some hunkered down NPC and then a few more.

The Class system blows as they took away the free form elder scrolls nature and even added level locked items. Everything just felt extremely static.

There are zero physics, you come across copy / pasted chests everywhere that give shit for loot and are just placed to make it seem like an elder scrolls game.

It's soulless.

The combat is tabtargetting disguised as aimed. As you're just using an ability when the enemy is highlighted, arrows / magic curve to enemies, there is no aiming.

hometeam
11-23-2013, 05:54 PM
Another good description. The only people that will defend it are TES fanbois who don't know any better or refuse to see the truth.

QuikSsurfer
11-23-2013, 06:55 PM
Another good description. The only people that will defend it are TES fanbois who don't know any better or refuse to see the truth.

No one can defend this. It is what it is. A generic fucking MMO.

Sucks it has the Elder Scrolls name attached to it.

Three7s
11-23-2013, 11:51 PM
Wow, and I was excited about this one. Oh well, cross another one off the list.

KILLER_CLOWN
11-23-2013, 11:55 PM
I didn't think the first run at an MMO of this would work well, I'll stick to the awesome single player version.

Javabean
11-24-2013, 07:24 AM
Really sad to hear these reviews. A friend of mine who worked on DCUO left Austin a few years ago to work on this. I was hoping for his sake it'd be a big time hit.

hometeam
11-24-2013, 10:02 AM
Really sad to hear these reviews. A friend of mine who worked on DCUO left Austin a few years ago to work on this. I was hoping for his sake it'd be a big time hit.

What will happen is what happens to all doomed, shitty MMO;s


It will start off with a bang, people will pay for the game, and some months of service.

Bad reviews will get out, i twill slow to a crawl within a few months.. 6 maybe 10.

Then, they will announce a f2p or b2p model and put it autopilot, with a few updates here and there, just to keep the people who refuse to admit they where wrong at sucks

:(

KILLER_CLOWN
11-24-2013, 10:29 AM
The most dissapointing was probably Hellgate London, how could they fail? Well first of all they shouldn't have tried to make it an MMO.

Count Zarth
11-24-2013, 10:52 AM
Making MMOs just stretches developers too thin.

There's no room for actual good story content, although I feel like SWTOR came closer than most.

MMO genre sucks. It's only real value to me has been being treated to exploring vast worlds. That was what LOTRO was to me, a giant "ooh look I read about that in the book" sight seeing trip.

hometeam
11-24-2013, 10:53 AM
Making MMOs just stretches developers too thin.

There's no room for actual good story content, although I feel like SWTOR came closer than most.

MMO genre sucks. It's only real value to me has been being treated to exploring vast worlds. That was what LOTRO was to me, a giant "ooh look I read about that in the book" sight seeing trip.

Guild wars 2 still reigns supreme as the pinnacle of MMO achievement, and even it could be improved on.

whoman69
11-24-2013, 11:38 AM
MMOs to me are nothing but continual revenue generation. I can see the companies need more stable revenue than the game release and subsequent DLCs can bring. I won't waste my money.

hometeam
11-24-2013, 11:46 AM
welp

kaplin42
11-24-2013, 12:40 PM
Pretty much everything Hometeam said. It's just another standard mmo with nothing to really grab you.

I agree that it will be f2p soon, probably within the first year. Sad, so much to work with but so much that is just not interesting. I thought the starting area and story was excruciating and it seemed to have borrowed the story from another mmo.

kaplin42
11-24-2013, 02:19 PM
Reading the beta forums, it seems like the general consensus is that this game is a giant pile of pig shit wrapped up in the guise of some peoples most loved game world.

They really screwed the pooch on this one.

Setsuna
11-24-2013, 03:13 PM
They have almost half a year to keep working on this. Chill out. Also the abilities having really no limit is something you don't see. Wait and see and stop writing off a game that won't be out until women start wearing short shorts again. Lord.

hometeam
11-24-2013, 04:34 PM
They have almost half a year to keep working on this. Chill out. Also the abilities having really no limit is something you don't see. Wait and see and stop writing off a game that won't be out until women start wearing short shorts again. Lord.

Does not matter what they do. it is completely 100% shit.

Setsuna
11-24-2013, 05:27 PM
Does not matter what they do. it is completely 100% shit.

Well you don't have to buy it. Just wait for Warlords of Draenor and you'll be having fun in no time!

Setsuna
11-24-2013, 05:33 PM
And where are these supposed reviews at? If you don't have links you are talking out your butt.

hometeam
11-24-2013, 05:36 PM
Well you don't have to buy it. Just wait for Warlords of Draenor and you'll be having fun in no time!

Dont play WoW. I haveplayed ESO though.

I have also played basically every major MMO.


You sound like your a little bit butthurt. Face it, the game sucks.

hometeam
11-24-2013, 05:36 PM
And where are these supposed reviews at? If you don't have links you are talking out your butt.

The fuck you mean. The link is my brain. I have played the game.

kaplin42
11-25-2013, 08:39 AM
I uninstalled this game after the Chiefs game yesterday. I think the point Setsuna is that this game is just genericMMO_001. There is nothing to grab the player, nothing that makes you feel like you're actually in an Elder Scrolls environment. The combat is maybe a touch more polished than DDO, but still fail, the classes are undefined on one hand, yet completely linear in another. The graphics were nice, but not impressive, and like HT, I was playing on max settings. In a game that was promised to hugely sandbox, there is nothing but rails guiding you from one step to the next.

Between now and release they can fix bugs, maybe add a dungeon or two, tweak crafting a little bit, and hopefully add a super awesome end game, cause to be honest, that will be the only thing that saves that game. The problem is the game is what it is, which is a boring generic mmo, it already has it's style and theme, and that can't/won't be changed by release.

Javabean
11-25-2013, 10:05 AM
Making MMOs just stretches developers too thin.

There's no room for actual good story content, although I feel like SWTOR came closer than most.

MMO genre sucks. It's only real value to me has been being treated to exploring vast worlds. That was what LOTRO was to me, a giant "ooh look I read about that in the book" sight seeing trip.

MMOs are not the best video game medium for telling stories, primarily because one player's story cannot influence or generate truly dynamic world changing events without restricting other players' stories.

But what they do excel at is providing challenging team-oriented PVE scenarios. PVP games can offer more dynamic encounters but are ultimately restricted by the pervasive assumption that both sides must be balanced for a "fair" fight, whereas a PVE game can continually ratchet up the difficulty of an encounter by making the enemy cheat.

Some MMOs choose instead to provide mobs that are just giant bags of hit points, but the MMO developers who design more tactical scenarios provide the most challenging and complex group content gaming can offer.

Javabean
11-25-2013, 10:14 AM
Guild wars 2 still reigns supreme as the pinnacle of MMO achievement, and even it could be improved on.

I enjoyed GW2 -- I remember playing it with you for a little while, even -- but I don't think it reigns supreme at all. It had huge issues with end game content at release, and their updates over the past year have focused on the "living story" changes.

In other words, they released an MMO that failed at the biggest strength of MMOs, and going forward they're focusing on the biggest weakness of MMOs. Sun Tzu would not be impressed.

I'm happy they're trying to blaze a new trail, and I hope some of their innovations are carried over into new MMOs. But the changes I liked the best were the smaller iterations they made on genre, and the two biggest risks they took were failures.

Simply Red
11-25-2013, 10:24 AM
what are MMO's please?

kaplin42
11-25-2013, 10:28 AM
what are MMO's please?

MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online

Most MMO's are really MMORPG.

Simply Red
11-25-2013, 10:37 AM
MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online

Most MMO's are really MMORPG.

Thanks - I knew at one time - but was too lazy to pull it up on wiki.

Detoxing
11-25-2013, 10:48 AM
Yeah, bummer. That's the most boring part of an MMO; the questing. It's so mundane and boring and it's been that way in every MMO i've played.

Questing needs to be more dynamic and feel more epic. When you hit level cap, you should feel like a legend, not just a sigh of relief that you don't have to do that again.

After reading developer interviews from Blizzard, it seems like those guys have given up on questing all together and focus their time on developing end game content. Hell, their next Xpac they're giving everyone a free Level 90 (out of 100) to everyone who buys the xpac. Blizzard does everything they can to speed up the leveling process to get people into end game content as quick as possible.

Javabean
11-25-2013, 11:20 AM
GW2 originally released to alpha without quests -- instead, players were to level through dynamic events exclusively. The problem they had was that players didn't know where to go, and without quests, the developers didn't have a way to lead them around the world.

It's an interesting problem. While obviously the biggest strength to me of MMOs is the end game, a lot of people enjoy exploring giant worlds and interacting with lots of people in a more illusory manner. Levelling can be accomplished in other ways -- I really like Neverwinter's player made content system -- but the exploration of a persistent world is a different issue.

Blizzard is trying to bypass it in a game that's been out for almost a decade. What I'd like to see is something like EQNext's "Minecraft" world-building system be able to replace questing, but that may be asking too much for an MMO.

Pants
11-25-2013, 09:26 PM
GW2 originally released to alpha without quests -- instead, players were to level through dynamic events exclusively. The problem they had was that players didn't know where to go, and without quests, the developers didn't have a way to lead them around the world.

It's an interesting problem. While obviously the biggest strength to me of MMOs is the end game, a lot of people enjoy exploring giant worlds and interacting with lots of people in a more illusory manner. Levelling can be accomplished in other ways -- I really like Neverwinter's player made content system -- but the exploration of a persistent world is a different issue.

Blizzard is trying to bypass it in a game that's been out for almost a decade. What I'd like to see is something like EQNext's "Minecraft" world-building system be able to replace questing, but that may be asking too much for an MMO.

I had an incredibly fun experience leveling up in GW2. They did such an amazing job with everything from how you level up to the gear customization to crafting to just exploring. Everything was engaging, somewhat challenging at times but never to leave you frustrated. The world events were pure fucking butter in the bread and butter of the leveling game. The heart quests were the bread. Everything was smooth, satisfying and synergetic. Getting 100% on the world exploration achievement was hella fun too.

Too bad the game had zero end game. Farming karma was only fun for so long and the dungeons where challenging and fun at times but didn't honestly provide much reward. Once you hit the cap and got all the items you wanted to complete your badass look, it was GG.

DC.chief
11-26-2013, 11:42 AM
I played the beta all of about an hour before I had as much as I could take. Its a new skin on the same old bs mmo. IMO FFXIV is far superior to it. I realize they will make some changes since it's in beta but its a far cry from what ffxiv offers. I really wanted to like it though because I have really enjoyed the franchise otherwise.

Course that is my opinion and opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

Count Zarth
11-26-2013, 05:54 PM
cant even log on to a server right now...wheee

hometeam
11-26-2013, 06:13 PM
cant even log on to a server right now...wheee



So... thoughts?

hometeam
11-26-2013, 06:16 PM
I played the beta all of about an hour before I had as much as I could take. Its a new skin on the same old bs mmo. IMO FFXIV is far superior to it. I realize they will make some changes since it's in beta but its a far cry from what ffxiv offers. I really wanted to like it though because I have really enjoyed the franchise otherwise.

Course that is my opinion and opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

As I was playing, I reflected on it and it reminded me a TON of FFXIV.

Except, no random events, and they did everything about 10% as good.

And I couldnt even get to max level in ffxiv before giving out :(

I decree that Elder Scrolls MMO is FFXIV if done extremely poorly.


I DECREE IT

Count Zarth
11-26-2013, 06:16 PM
That was my first attempt at playing.

hometeam
11-26-2013, 06:18 PM
That was my first attempt at playing.

Oh wait. Duh.

The beta test ended sunday at midnight. Dont worry, the account will remain active for the next beta weekend.

Count Zarth
11-26-2013, 06:19 PM
I guess closed beta isn't the same as open beta.

Any idea when the next beta weekend will be? They only do this on weekends? ASFAOKSDAKAOSKDAOSKA

hometeam
11-26-2013, 06:20 PM
I guess closed beta isn't the same as open beta.

Any idea when the next beta weekend will be? They only do this on weekends? ASFAOKSDAKAOSKDAOSKA

Nah dont think its been announced.

And yes its closed beta testing, its whenever they see fit.

Setsuna
11-26-2013, 06:24 PM
Well I've read your opinions and conclude FFXIV is better. Thanks guys.

hometeam
11-26-2013, 07:00 PM
Well I've read your opinions and conclude FFXIV is better. Thanks guys.

Why are you so butthurt in this thread? Do you own stock in Zenimax? Are you a developer?

Have you played this yet? The game is a disaster, waiting to take a shit all over the Elder Scrolls franchise. Years from now, this will be 'that game' that doesn't really 'count' and is gratefully forgotten.

Maybe you can have some fun with this game, and that's fine. Most people, including the people they are going after, will not. There is a reason its getting panned across the internet.

Count Zarth
11-26-2013, 07:09 PM
At least it's an MMO, a prequel, and not really a continuation of the Elder Scrolls story.

kaplin42
01-15-2014, 01:37 PM
Did anyone play this last weekend's beta? I got the invite but was not going to waste my time with the download. I was just curious if they made any real changes or if it is still on it's way to one of the worst launches in MMO history?

hometeam
01-15-2014, 02:43 PM
I thought about logging in, but then thought again :/

Fruit Ninja
01-15-2014, 06:28 PM
People in beta are killing this game for being completely shitty! I dont think i have ever seen a beta'd game take this much hate and thats saying alot, because there has been some MMo's released when they were not ready.

Im hearing that the company sunk 200 million into this game and its more thenlikely goign to flop. Then again, from the other games they made a few billions, so im gussing 200m is a hit they can afford to take lol

Only hope left is a Pantheon Rise of the Fallen who is trying to get kickstarted. oh well.

Valiant
01-15-2014, 06:33 PM
People in beta are killing this game for being completely shitty! I dont think i have ever seen a beta'd game take this much hate and thats saying alot, because there has been some MMo's released when they were not ready.

Im hearing that the company sunk 200 million into this game and its more thenlikely goign to flop. Then again, from the other games they made a few billions, so im gussing 200m is a hit they can afford to take lol

Only hope left is a Pantheon Rise of the Fallen who is trying to get kickstarted. oh well.

Do not sink a lot of hope, the devs running that from what I read on ign like to waste money on frivolous purchases for themselves in the past.

Count Zarth
01-15-2014, 08:17 PM
I hate these jerks for fucking around and making a stupid MMO when all they had to do was pump out the single-player sequel to Skyrim and make a mountain of money anyway.

Huffmeister
01-15-2014, 08:19 PM
I barely got out of the starting quest zone and was already bored. It felt like Skyrim "Lite", without the soul.

hometeam
01-15-2014, 09:31 PM
I hate these jerks for ****ing around and making a stupid MMO when all they had to do was pump out the single-player sequel to Skyrim and make a mountain of money anyway.


All they really had to do was take skyrims engine and make it work with multiplayer. Literally, thats it.

But no they fucked around and made some shit ass generic, done ten years ago MMO. And badly at that.

Fruit Ninja
01-16-2014, 03:25 AM
Do not sink a lot of hope, the devs running that from what I read on ign like to waste money on frivolous purchases for themselves in the past.

Ooh, i know all about it, im an old school Everquest player from way back. Im not concerned about the waste money part of it this time around. There is not going to be alot of money even if their kickstarter gets funded. Alot of the old everquest dev's are working on this for free right now. They kinda have to give it a good ole college try, developers are not rich by anymeans. If they can pull it off and have a game for the niche they aregoing for, its going to pay out for them really well, its going to be constant monthly revenue. If they run the kickstarter and fail it this time around, its over for all of them. They are working on a very limited budget even even if the Kickstarter goes through.

For a MMo and what they want to do, its my kind of game. If they can pull it off, ill say one thing, ill be back MMo'ing because for about the last 7-8 years mmo's been ass. They arent even mmo's anymore. Itsmostly a single player game til you get to max level and run some of the most linear ass dungeons.

This map shows you pretty[much exactly what i mean...

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/FPS_63b475_1259033.jpg

This is how fps/mmo dungeons are now days. They wanna go back to the one that looks and is fun. lol

htismaqe
01-16-2014, 06:39 AM
Just so you guys know, Elder Scrolls games (aka Morrowind, Skyrim) are made by Bethesda Game Studios, a subsidiary of Bethesda Softworks.

TES MMO is made by Zenimax Online Studios, a completely different subsidiary of Bethesda Softworks.

They didn't make this INSTEAD of a sequel to Skyrim. They couldn't just port the game engine from Skyrim.

The only relation between the two projects are the IP and the holding company that owns it.

kaplin42
01-16-2014, 08:56 AM
Ooh, i know all about it, im an old school Everquest player from way back. Im not concerned about the waste money part of it this time around. There is not going to be alot of money even if their kickstarter gets funded. Alot of the old everquest dev's are working on this for free right now. They kinda have to give it a good ole college try, developers are not rich by anymeans. If they can pull it off and have a game for the niche they aregoing for, its going to pay out for them really well, its going to be constant monthly revenue. If they run the kickstarter and fail it this time around, its over for all of them. They are working on a very limited budget even even if the Kickstarter goes through.

For a MMo and what they want to do, its my kind of game. If they can pull it off, ill say one thing, ill be back MMo'ing because for about the last 7-8 years mmo's been ass. They arent even mmo's anymore. Itsmostly a single player game til you get to max level and run some of the most linear ass dungeons.

This map shows you pretty[much exactly what i mean...

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/FPS_63b475_1259033.jpg

This is how fps/mmo dungeons are now days. They wanna go back to the one that looks and is fun. lol

I agree with you on so many points. EQ2 was the last MMO that I really enjoyed until SOE took it F2P. I hope that by niche market, you mean the MMO will be complicated, not a single player till 50, and will require some skill to raid in? Cause that would be awesome, I would love a game, even if smaller both world and population wise that was actually challenging.

They did so many things right with Vanguard, if only they could capture that stuff, but then not **** up the code so the game ran smoothly. If they had done that, Vanguard would still be kicking ass today.


ESO on the other hand is badly made generic_MMO_9458 that is going to be F2P within 3 months of launch, if even that long.

Fruit Ninja
01-16-2014, 01:13 PM
I agree with you on so many points. EQ2 was the last MMO that I really enjoyed until SOE took it F2P. I hope that by niche market, you mean the MMO will be complicated, not a single player till 50, and will require some skill to raid in? Cause that would be awesome, I would love a game, even if smaller both world and population wise that was actually challenging.

They did so many things right with Vanguard, if only they could capture that stuff, but then not **** up the code so the game ran smoothly. If they had done that, Vanguard would still be kicking ass today.


ESO on the other hand is badly made generic_MMO_9458 that is going to be F2P within 3 months of launch, if even that long.

Yeah, Brad has went out n pretty much explained why VG crapped and took most of the responsiblity himself, he said he fucked up and this time around he wants to hire a CEO. He's been posting alot in the Pantheon thread over at Rerolled.org. All we can do is wait and see, he's the only hope of the old schoool feel. Everyone else wants to copy WOW which hey, if you wanna play a game like WOW play wOW. lol

Saccopoo
01-16-2014, 02:20 PM
Yeah, Brad has went out n pretty much explained why VG crapped and took most of the responsiblity himself, he said he ****ed up and this time around he wants to hire a CEO. He's been posting alot in the Pantheon thread over at Rerolled.org. All we can do is wait and see, he's the only hope of the old schoool feel. Everyone else wants to copy WOW which hey, if you wanna play a game like WOW play wOW. lol

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090606164131/wowwiki/images/e/e7/Tauren_Dancing.gif

Fruit Ninja
01-16-2014, 03:09 PM
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090606164131/wowwiki/images/e/e7/Tauren_Dancing.gif

I prefer the female troll dancie imitating the french Pop Star Alizee!


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/jjUVStwNt3k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


actually i think its this video they stole the troll female dance from.. its been a while since i played Wow.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Q6omsDyFNlk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

kaplin42
01-17-2014, 11:06 AM
Yeah, Brad has went out n pretty much explained why VG crapped and took most of the responsiblity himself, he said he ****ed up and this time around he wants to hire a CEO. He's been posting alot in the Pantheon thread over at Rerolled.org. All we can do is wait and see, he's the only hope of the old schoool feel. Everyone else wants to copy WOW which hey, if you wanna play a game like WOW play wOW. lol

I took a look, and I'm hesitantly excited. I agree with the sentiment of the thread that Vanguard is probably the best concept to come out in the last 10 years, and the game play was a shit ton of fun, just the actual game code blew.

I love that he blatantly says niche market, for the crowd that wants a challenging, yet rewarding experience.

I will personally buying the $100 Kickstarter spot for my wife and I. I know this game will be small, and wont have all the features of some of the newer MMO's, but, I will be looking forward to a challenge again. Hopefully they can deliver.

hometeam
01-17-2014, 11:08 AM
If you guys are looking at oldschool throwback MMO mechanics you should also check out the kickstarter for Repopulation, game is already in alpha.

Setsuna
01-17-2014, 11:58 AM
I barely got out of the starting quest zone and was already bored. It felt like Skyrim "Lite", without the soul.

Yeah I was over it too. There was almost no challenge. The combat was a little slow. The leveling system makes no sense. And if they are going for SWTOR type quest givers then they need to do better with mouth movement because it is beyond terrible. I had to play it myself to understand how garbage this game is.

hometeam
01-17-2014, 12:07 PM
Yeah I was over it too. There was almost no challenge. The combat was a little slow. The leveling system makes no sense. And if they are going for SWTOR type quest givers then they need to do better with mouth movement because it is beyond terrible. I had to play it myself to understand how garbage this game is.

http://nkayesel.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sister-act-hallelujah.gif

Fruit Ninja
01-17-2014, 03:49 PM
I took a look, and I'm hesitantly excited. I agree with the sentiment of the thread that Vanguard is probably the best concept to come out in the last 10 years, and the game play was a shit ton of fun, just the actual game code blew.

I love that he blatantly says niche market, for the crowd that wants a challenging, yet rewarding experience.

I will personally buying the $100 Kickstarter spot for my wife and I. I know this game will be small, and wont have all the features of some of the newer MMO's, but, I will be looking forward to a challenge again. Hopefully they can deliver.

One has to be cautiously optimistic, but hell, i have only played 2 mmo's more then a year and they were both made by brad the rest was either within the 30 days free play or a month or 2 after the free play.

It may be a little hope, but its better then none at all. Its been a while since i played an mmo even seriously.

Trevo_410
01-17-2014, 04:11 PM
u guys heard of wildstar?

that's been in my plans for the past year or so and still didn't get a beta inv :deevee::deevee:

still excited for it tho... you'll should check it out.

Setsuna
02-07-2014, 08:00 PM
Beta this weekend. Going on since 12 PM today into 11:59 PM tomorrow. Here's AJ's take on it.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/upE802rZl7Q?list=UUsgv2QHkT2ljEixyulzOnUQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

hometeam
02-07-2014, 08:17 PM
good stuff starts at 16 minutes. Pros and cons at 20 minutes. As I said after my beta stint, he also thinks the game will go f2p.


The bad reviews are neverending. They have been creeping up all over the internet the last few days

Loneiguana
02-08-2014, 07:05 AM
I'm in the Beta and I do enjoy it. I get why some people wouldn't like it if you are use to WoW.

Count Zarth
02-08-2014, 07:19 AM
Sounds like it will be worth picking up on F2P just to explore a bit and check out the world.

hometeam
02-08-2014, 09:11 AM
I'm in the Beta and I do enjoy it. I get why some people wouldn't like it if you are use to WoW.


Liking wow or not has nothing to do with it. In fact, it is quite wow-like in almost every aspect, so much so that is part of its detriment.

Its just a badly done game, grindy, with not only buy the game, pay to play, AND microtransactions.

Money grab at its finest.

kaplin42
02-08-2014, 01:50 PM
Liking wow or not has nothing to do with it. In fact, it is quite wow-like in almost every aspect, so much so that is part of its detriment.

Its just a badly done game, grindy, with not only buy the game, pay to play, AND microtransactions.

Money grab at its finest.

i think it's so sad that this is now the state of MMO's. They were, and could have continued to be awesome, but now, they are just money sinks, and really pretty dull.

Ragged Robin
02-08-2014, 01:56 PM
looks like another crap theme park mmo

Setsuna
02-08-2014, 04:18 PM
I'm in the Beta and I do enjoy it. I get why some people wouldn't like it if you are use to WoW.
You can't even evaluate a game properly. How do you get up in the morning and not trip over your own incompetence and break your neck?

Pants
02-08-2014, 05:21 PM
You can't even evaluate a game properly. How do you get up in the morning and not trip over your own incompetence and break your neck?

Says the 99th percentile dumbass. LMAO

Loneiguana
02-09-2014, 07:18 AM
Liking wow or not has nothing to do with it. In fact, it is quite wow-like in almost every aspect, so much so that is part of its detriment.

Its just a badly done game, grindy, with not only buy the game, pay to play, AND microtransactions.

Money grab at its finest.

I didn't say liking WoW had things to do with it. I said I could see why people USE to Wow wouldn't like it.

The controls are vastly different. Its not tons of button pushing with you mouse. It isn't clicking on portraits to heal. It is using your mousing to look around and hitting keyboard keys. The controls and interface are complete opposite.

Most of the people I've talked don't like the controls and interface.

And, personaly, I think the quests are more varied than the two types of WoW quests. There is more than kill x number this, or pick up x number of this. And I don't get the grindy either.... Killing things just for exp seems like the slowest way to level in game.

Setsuna
02-09-2014, 11:31 AM
Says the 99th percentile dumbass. LMAO
No idea what you're talking about.

Pants
02-09-2014, 12:46 PM
No idea what you're talking about.

Why would you?

RedDread
02-09-2014, 12:47 PM
Login queue: 1 hour 28 minutes...

Setsuna
02-09-2014, 02:04 PM
Login queue: 1 hour 28 minutes...

I'm going to fire it up and see what they've changed.

Setsuna
02-09-2014, 02:14 PM
LMAO yup 1hr 29min. Awesome.

Three7s
02-10-2014, 08:08 AM
Please, someone tell me this game is awesome so I can get excited about it......

hometeam
02-10-2014, 08:37 AM
Please, someone tell me this game is awesome so I can get excited about it......

The only people who will tell you that are blind fools following the IP alone.

I wanted this game to be good. I did. I really did.

But its not. Its bad. If you look at it objectively, its bad. Its just.. bad. Its so bad.

just wait for it to go f2p, THEN maybe it wont be as bad. They will make improvements, and it wont cost you a 75 bucks to get started and 15 a month plus microtransactions.

AndChiefs
02-10-2014, 09:17 AM
Please, someone tell me this game is awesome so I can get excited about it......

I played it a bit this weekend. First of all, it's beautiful. That's about the end of the positives I saw. It seemed to play almost exactly like Dragon Age did to me. And unfortunately, for an MMO it felt like a single player game. There were a lot of people running around but it didn't seem like there was any reason to ever bother interacting with them. Later game that would probably change some (you would think!).

If you enjoy the other games it would probably be enjoyable for you. I would find it very difficult to justify spending a subscription fee for this game though.

Detoxing
02-11-2014, 11:07 AM
What exactly makes it bad? I just keep seeing "It's bad, it's bad".

Is it bad because you just don't like traditional MMO's? Or is it bad because it fails even as a traditional MMO? If it's failing as a traditional MMO, why?

I see people complain about it being Grindy....well....that's what an MMO is. Everquest was the king of Grind. WoW was a grind fest when it was released too.

Does the game not have instanced content yet? Is it nothing but killing monsters? Is the leveling pacing bad because there aren't enough quests?

Does the combat system suck? That's what i love about WoW, the combat system is very fluid if you're not a "clicker".

hometeam
02-11-2014, 11:20 AM
What exactly makes it bad? I just keep seeing "It's bad, it's bad".

Is it bad because you just don't like traditional MMO's? Or is it bad because it fails even as a traditional MMO? If it's failing as a traditional MMO, why?

I see people complain about it being Grindy....well....that's what an MMO is. Everquest was the king of Grind. WoW was a grind fest when it was released too.

Does the game not have instanced content yet? Is it nothing but killing monsters? Is the leveling pacing bad because there aren't enough quests?

Does the combat system suck? That's what i love about WoW, the combat system is very fluid if you're not a "clicker".

There are lots of reviews out there that can word it better than I. watch the angry joe one starting at 16 minutes.

To be honest, after this thread revival I went and redownloaded it and tried to play it again. yea. my opinion did not change.

I do like traditional MMO's tbh. I have 5 level 80 characters in guld wars 2. I have leveled a character from 1 to max in every WoW expansion up until the panda one.

The combat system soes suck. To be light. its nothing like TES except you have stamina.

There are plenty of quests, but they are hollow junk, not engaging, not fun, there is no social aspect, the graphics/animations are a joke, except for the player models.

Hell, I could go on.

I will put it like this. I have at least betad, or played, nearly every major mmo to release since ultima online. (No everquest :X) and TONS of minor ones (mortal online anyone?) and this could be the WORST time i have had playing an MMO.

its just.not.fun.

thecoffeeguy
02-11-2014, 02:49 PM
Man...i have to concur. lots of friends are incredibly disappointed in ESO...very slow is a common thread i keep hearing.

I have not played it so can not comment, but i'll go by what my friends say...

what a letdown.

Detoxing
02-11-2014, 03:43 PM
Man...i have to concur. lots of friends are incredibly disappointed in ESO...very slow is a common thread i keep hearing.

I have not played it so can not comment, but i'll go by what my friends say...

what a letdown.

Leveling has never been an MMO's strength. ESPECIALLY low levels. I'm anxious to see what their end game content is like. I think THAT will be what makes or breaks this game.

jd1020
02-11-2014, 04:42 PM
Leveling has never been an MMO's strength. ESPECIALLY low levels. I'm anxious to see what their end game content is like. I think THAT will be what makes or breaks this game.

Well... I doubt a lot of people make it to that point based on reports I'm hearing.

I've heard people comparing the questing to the Barens(SP?) from vanilla WoW. If you ever played vanilla WoW you know how ****ing awful the Barens was. Walking a seemingly endless amount back and forth in the largest area in the game collecting 3 or 4 items at level 10-20 (20 levels below the nearest mount).

kaplin42
02-11-2014, 11:40 PM
Leveling has never been an MMO's strength. ESPECIALLY low levels. I'm anxious to see what their end game content is like. I think THAT will be what makes or breaks this game.

I agree with you, but raiders are still a small percentage of any MMO community. My problem is that if I want to raid, i have to get to 50, and i will be damned if I do that in a game that 1-50 sucks. And let's be honest, how long has it been since and MMO opened up with awesome end game content right at the beginning ?

Loneiguana
02-12-2014, 06:36 AM
Leveling has never been an MMO's strength. ESPECIALLY low levels. I'm anxious to see what their end game content is like. I think THAT will be what makes or breaks this game.

This.

I got up to level 15.

If I judged every MMO after 15 levels, I would hate all of them. I would think Wow was nothing but killing murlocks.

And I think the quests were fun. Daggerfall area quests were engaging, with options for how the quests proceeded and what I thought was a cool storyline.

I did try one of the public dungeons. It was interesting.

Ragged Robin
02-14-2014, 08:03 PM
Just watched AngryJoe's PvP video and that sealed it for me (won't be giving this a shot). Nothing new to the MMO scene here, same set up as GW2 WvW and same out dated root+stun+AoE+spam+zerg+cluster**** combat mechanics with no reason to go first person.



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/I82pz60iGL0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

hometeam
02-25-2014, 01:06 PM
So I just got an email from ESO with a 'invite a friend' beta key for upcoming beta weekend, it goes from Friday at noon EST to Sunday at midnight EST.

If any of you are still inexplicably wanting to try this game out for yourself, shoot me a PM. First come first serve.

Edit: I have 3 keys up for grabs.

Valiant
02-25-2014, 01:56 PM
i think it's so sad that this is now the state of MMO's. They were, and could have continued to be awesome, but now, they are just money sinks, and really pretty dull.

Agreed, It is like when I was playing wow. vanilla was the most fun. it was harder than what it is now. Grinding was good because it weeds out a lot of the bad players from raids.

Hard games are not a bad thing, my friends rave about dark souls. More games should be easy to play, hard to master.

Detoxing
02-25-2014, 02:24 PM
More games should be easy to play, hard to master.

WoW is still that way, but your average WoW player is a lot better now. Back in Vanilla, i clicked everything. I healed Molten Core as a Shadow Priest.

Today's Raids have way more, and way harder mechanics. But, im fully keybound and i dont click a damn thing. My reaction time, rotation and awareness are way, way better and its not even close.

I find a lot people on Blizzard's forums complain about how easy WoW is, yet only 1% of Raiders have cleared current Hard Mode raid content and it's something like 8% have cleared Normal mode current content. Easy to play, difficult to play well.

kaplin42
02-25-2014, 04:01 PM
People in beta are killing this game for being completely shitty! I dont think i have ever seen a beta'd game take this much hate and thats saying alot, because there has been some MMo's released when they were not ready.

Im hearing that the company sunk 200 million into this game and its more thenlikely goign to flop. Then again, from the other games they made a few billions, so im gussing 200m is a hit they can afford to take lol

Only hope left is a Pantheon Rise of the Fallen who is trying to get kickstarted. oh well.

Pantheon failed to make their kickstarter deadline, but they are running a similar type of event on their own website.

https://www.pantheonrotf.com/

I have to say, the more I read about the game, the more excited I get. For one thing, Enchanters are back. No more zero challenge, just AE nuke everything to death boring game play. Crowd control is one of the funnest if not hardest roles to play, and I really look forward to doing it again. Since Vanguard, I have not seen one game where CC was even close to a viable thing to use.

jd1020
02-25-2014, 04:53 PM
WoW is still that way, but your average WoW player is a lot better now. Back in Vanilla, i clicked everything. I healed Molten Core as a Shadow Priest.

Today's Raids have way more, and way harder mechanics. But, im fully keybound and i dont click a damn thing. My reaction time, rotation and awareness are way, way better and its not even close.

I find a lot people on Blizzard's forums complain about how easy WoW is, yet only 1% of Raiders have cleared current Hard Mode raid content and it's something like 8% have cleared Normal mode current content. Easy to play, difficult to play well.

I haven't raided in wow since Burning Crusade, dabbed a bit in WotLK when it came out but lost interest very early. But when I was in a raiding guild in BC I was waaaaaaaay behind my guilds progression and as soon as I hit 70 they had me raiding literally right when I dinged. Still in green spell/dmg gear from the mid 60's on my pally, we killed Gruul (server first), before they nerfed the shit out of him (not many guilds actually killed him prenerf). It wasn't too long after that we killed Magtheridon (2nd on server).

There is nothing challenging about raiding in WoW. Once you figure out the sequence of the fight its all grade school. The reason so few people have cleared the current content is because WoW has switched to a more casual focus. Clearing current content requires large amounts of time farming materials for potions and other random things. The overwhelming majority of WoW players don't have the interest in doing that shit. They'll play their 10 arena matches a week and be happy.

Take this list for what you may but here's the top 10 raid boss world firsts from date of access:

#1 Ouro - 87 days from the Twin Emperors' death. (1 day from C'thun's death) 26th April 2006.
#2 C'thun - 86 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 25th April 2006.
#3 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 83 days from General Vezax's death. (39 days from STARS' previous Ulduar kill) 7th July 2009
#4 tied Chromaggus - 74 days from Ebonroc's death. 25th September 2005.
#4 tied Ragnaros - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death. 25th April 2005.
#6 High Astromancer Solarian - 59 days from Magtheridon's death. (24 days from Death Wish's previous tier 5 kill) 24th April 2007
#7 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006
#8 Al'ar <Phoenix God> - 48 days from Magtheridon's death. 13th April 2007
#9 Heroic The Lich King - 42 Days from Heroic Putricide's death (first pull). March 26th 2010
#10 Heroic Al'Akir - 38 days from being unlocked. (36 days from Heroic Conclave of Wind's death) January 22nd 2011.

5 from vanilla
2 from BC
2 from WotLK
1 from Cataclysm

There's only 1 boss in the top 30 from MoP.

I remember when the first Asian guild killed Illidan... Their gear was mostly made up of vanilla raid gear. Their main tanks were still using TF's. The game is incredibly easy but takes vast amounts of time and dedication to playing 4 or 5 hours every night to be current on content.

Pants
02-25-2014, 08:53 PM
So I'm just curious (not trying to call you out, I promise), what would make a raid difficult?

Valiant
02-25-2014, 11:31 PM
So I'm just curious (not trying to call you out, I promise), what would make a raid difficult?

I forget teh name of the game I was playing. MMO, where action mattered. It had all mobs including you have a physical body, you could not run through mobs. Had to run around them.

I would say add that. Then have each raid boss have a bigger randomized ability subset. Basically, instead of just youtubing the top guilds to learn tactics. The bosses have 30 to 50 random moves they could do. Not all during a fight, but have it completely random.

Another thing I also think they should add, any weapon/gear that drops from raid bosses should be able to be bought. Say you defeat a boss 30plus times and your weapon or gear never drops. Well every time you defeat him you get a chance say 50% of getting a coin to use that is only available for that bosses loot. After you collect so many, you can just buy the item from a vendor at the end of the raid.

You could do the same for the mounts, make it something insane that will take a good portion of the expansion.


I also hate that they try and make pvp/arena a esport. I am sorry, but it cannot be a esport when gear is the only thing that matters and group setup.
esports are about skill. Everyone should the same equal access to gear in pvp. Have the best still get arena or different looking gear.

I quit after wotlk after being in a top 150 US raiding guild for years. It just got stale. Literally had study sessions for learning raids to keep pace on server firsts. That shit is not fun.

Wildstar, looks interesting with what they are starting with. Hopefully it goes well.

Pants
02-26-2014, 12:17 AM
I forget teh name of the game I was playing. MMO, where action mattered. It had all mobs including you have a physical body, you could not run through mobs. Had to run around them.

I would say add that. Then have each raid boss have a bigger randomized ability subset. Basically, instead of just youtubing the top guilds to learn tactics. The bosses have 30 to 50 random moves they could do. Not all during a fight, but have it completely random.

Another thing I also think they should add, any weapon/gear that drops from raid bosses should be able to be bought. Say you defeat a boss 30plus times and your weapon or gear never drops. Well every time you defeat him you get a chance say 50% of getting a coin to use that is only available for that bosses loot. After you collect so many, you can just buy the item from a vendor at the end of the raid.

You could do the same for the mounts, make it something insane that will take a good portion of the expansion.


I also hate that they try and make pvp/arena a esport. I am sorry, but it cannot be a esport when gear is the only thing that matters and group setup.
esports are about skill. Everyone should the same equal access to gear in pvp. Have the best still get arena or different looking gear.

I quit after wotlk after being in a top 150 US raiding guild for years. It just got stale. Literally had study sessions for learning raids to keep pace on server firsts. That shit is not fun.

Wildstar, looks interesting with what they are starting with. Hopefully it goes well.

Warhammer Online online had solid body models you could not run through.

Detoxing
02-26-2014, 12:23 AM
Warhammer Online online had solid body models you could not run through.

Solid body models get real old, real fast. Especially in large scale PvP.

Detoxing
02-26-2014, 12:25 AM
I haven't raided in wow since Burning Crusade, dabbed a bit in WotLK when it came out but lost interest very early. But when I was in a raiding guild in BC I was waaaaaaaay behind my guilds progression and as soon as I hit 70 they had me raiding literally right when I dinged. Still in green spell/dmg gear from the mid 60's on my pally, we killed Gruul (server first), before they nerfed the shit out of him (not many guilds actually killed him prenerf). It wasn't too long after that we killed Magtheridon (2nd on server).

There is nothing challenging about raiding in WoW. Once you figure out the sequence of the fight its all grade school. The reason so few people have cleared the current content is because WoW has switched to a more casual focus. Clearing current content requires large amounts of time farming materials for potions and other random things. The overwhelming majority of WoW players don't have the interest in doing that shit. They'll play their 10 arena matches a week and be happy.

Take this list for what you may but here's the top 10 raid boss world firsts from date of access:

#1 Ouro - 87 days from the Twin Emperors' death. (1 day from C'thun's death) 26th April 2006.
#2 C'thun - 86 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 25th April 2006.
#3 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 83 days from General Vezax's death. (39 days from STARS' previous Ulduar kill) 7th July 2009
#4 tied Chromaggus - 74 days from Ebonroc's death. 25th September 2005.
#4 tied Ragnaros - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death. 25th April 2005.
#6 High Astromancer Solarian - 59 days from Magtheridon's death. (24 days from Death Wish's previous tier 5 kill) 24th April 2007
#7 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006
#8 Al'ar <Phoenix God> - 48 days from Magtheridon's death. 13th April 2007
#9 Heroic The Lich King - 42 Days from Heroic Putricide's death (first pull). March 26th 2010
#10 Heroic Al'Akir - 38 days from being unlocked. (36 days from Heroic Conclave of Wind's death) January 22nd 2011.

5 from vanilla
2 from BC
2 from WotLK
1 from Cataclysm

There's only 1 boss in the top 30 from MoP.

I remember when the first Asian guild killed Illidan... Their gear was mostly made up of vanilla raid gear. Their main tanks were still using TF's. The game is incredibly easy but takes vast amounts of time and dedication to playing 4 or 5 hours every night to be current on content.

BC mechanics are a far cry from MoP mechanics. It's not really comparable. There is a lot more movement involved and the bosses have more abilities in general. And in Ranked PvP, everyone who's contending has the same ilvl. It only takes but a month or two to fully gear up. If you can't take the time to get the same gear then you're probably not a top 1% player. The heart of an MMO is progression. PvP would be dead without a sense of progression, even in the form of gear.

But i do agree though, it is just a pattern. Its not that difficult if you dedicate enough time to it anyone can learn it.

But i think it's silly to call a game too easy when the majority of the players who play it can't complete the content. It's not just time, there is a good amount of skill involved. If you spend enough time on something, you'll get good at it. But i've raided with enough players to see that it is challenging for a lot of people.

Detoxing
02-26-2014, 12:55 AM
BC mechanics are a far cry from MoP mechanics. It's not really comparable. There is a lot more movement involved and the bosses have more abilities in general. And in Ranked PvP, everyone who's contending has the same ilvl. It only takes but a month or two to fully gear up. If you can't take the time to get the same gear then you're probably not a top 1% player. The heart of an MMO is progression. PvP would be dead without a sense of progression, even in the form of gear.

But i do agree though, it is just a pattern. Its not that difficult if you dedicate enough time to it anyone can learn it.

But i think it's silly to call a game too easy when the majority of the players who play it can't complete the content. It's not just time, there is a good amount of skill involved. If you spend enough time on something, you'll get good at it. But i've raided with enough players to see that it is challenging for a lot of people.

Sometimes you get high in the middle of the night, write a post and look back, "wtf why did i...?"

hometeam
02-26-2014, 07:01 AM
I forget teh name of the game I was playing. MMO, where action mattered. It had all mobs including you have a physical body, you could not run through mobs. Had to run around them.

I would say add that. Then have each raid boss have a bigger randomized ability subset. Basically, instead of just youtubing the top guilds to learn tactics. The bosses have 30 to 50 random moves they could do. Not all during a fight, but have it completely random.

Another thing I also think they should add, any weapon/gear that drops from raid bosses should be able to be bought. Say you defeat a boss 30plus times and your weapon or gear never drops. Well every time you defeat him you get a chance say 50% of getting a coin to use that is only available for that bosses loot. After you collect so many, you can just buy the item from a vendor at the end of the raid.

You could do the same for the mounts, make it something insane that will take a good portion of the expansion.


I also hate that they try and make pvp/arena a esport. I am sorry, but it cannot be a esport when gear is the only thing that matters and group setup.
esports are about skill. Everyone should the same equal access to gear in pvp. Have the best still get arena or different looking gear.

I quit after wotlk after being in a top 150 US raiding guild for years. It just got stale. Literally had study sessions for learning raids to keep pace on server firsts. That shit is not fun.

Wildstar, looks interesting with what they are starting with. Hopefully it goes well.

offtopic from this general offtopic.

I have played wildstar beta and its bad too.

kaplin42
02-26-2014, 10:45 AM
I would say add that. Then have each raid boss have a bigger randomized ability subset. Basically, instead of just youtubing the top guilds to learn tactics. The bosses have 30 to 50 random moves they could do. Not all during a fight, but have it completely random.


.

I could swear i brought this point up early in the thread. It would work like this:

3 variations of a raid/dungeon, easy, normal, hard. We will use raids as an example. each boss encounter in this raid has it's own set of 20 abilities.

On easy, each boss will RNG 5 of it's unique abilities, normal will be 10 and hard will be 15.

This means that a guild will rarely ever have the same fight as they had before and will never actually know what is going to happen. This would actually keep raiding kind of fresh. Sometimes the encounter would be very easy, sometimes it would be really hard, but it would never be the same thing.

"Death ray in 3 seconds, melee joust out"

Obviously the details would need to be worked out, and the actual number of things to be refined, but no encounter should always be the same.

Detoxing
02-26-2014, 10:56 AM
I could swear i brought this point up early in the thread. It would work like this:

3 variations of a raid/dungeon, easy, normal, hard. We will use raids as an example. each boss encounter in this raid has it's own set of 20 abilities.

On easy, each boss will RNG 5 of it's unique abilities, normal will be 10 and hard will be 15.

This means that a guild will rarely ever have the same fight as they had before and will never actually know what is going to happen. This would actually keep raiding kind of fresh. Sometimes the encounter would be very easy, sometimes it would be really hard, but it would never be the same thing.

"Death ray in 3 seconds, melee joust out"

Obviously the details would need to be worked out, and the actual number of things to be refined, but no encounter should always be the same.

As long as those abilities are the same after each wipe. If the abilities are changing during each pull then progression would be a nightmare assuming that the abilities are in fact game changing.

If the abilities are minor, then it would defeat the purpose. If they are major, then they need to be static after the first pull. Dealing with 20 Random, major abilities that change per pull could bring progression to a complete stop.

kaplin42
02-26-2014, 11:12 AM
As long as those abilities are the same after each wipe. If the abilities are changing during each pull then progression would be a nightmare assuming that the abilities are in fact game changing.

If the abilities are minor, then it would defeat the purpose. If they are major, then they need to be static after the first pull. Dealing with 20 Random, major abilities that change per pull could bring progression to a complete stop.

In my mind, the abilities are decided upon entering the instance. Once set, they are what they are for the entire encounter.

And yes, these abilities are the major abilities of that encounter. This way, like valiant said, you can never just go watch the how the top guilds beat the encounter on youtube. You may learn how to deal with the different abilities themselves, for example jousting on fire breath, but you won't know if fire breath is actually going to be used until it is.

Setsuna
02-27-2014, 10:36 AM
Then Hard mode would be more desirable since you'd have a much much higher chance of encountering every single ability and then know how to deal with them. 20 isn't enough.

kaplin42
02-27-2014, 11:59 AM
Then Hard mode would be more desirable since you'd have a much much higher chance of encountering every single ability and then know how to deal with them. 20 isn't enough.

Hard mode is always preferable in my mind, but then, I like the challenge. And like I said the details would need to be ironed out. I think 15 abilities in one fight is a lot, look at how many major abilities current encounters have, not that many.

When I was playing EQ2 three years ago, most encounters had 3 maybe 4 major abilities that you had to deal with, 15 would be insane. Also, note that I listed 20 total possibilities, but only 15 on hard mode, this would mean that the players would still not be able to count on any specific ability, and still keep it fresh.

Also, these are major abilities, like huge attacks, heals, stuns and other stuff like that, not just standard auto-attack, potential raid wiping abilities.

Count Zarth
03-13-2014, 08:11 PM
gonna try this tomorrow. another beta test

Valiant
03-13-2014, 08:24 PM
As long as those abilities are the same after each wipe. If the abilities are changing during each pull then progression would be a nightmare assuming that the abilities are in fact game changing.

If the abilities are minor, then it would defeat the purpose. If they are major, then they need to be static after the first pull. Dealing with 20 Random, major abilities that change per pull could bring progression to a complete stop.

See I find that more fun. As long as most abilities will not raid wipe. Then there would be no way to just copy what is on youtube.

Valiant
03-13-2014, 08:29 PM
Hard mode is always preferable in my mind, but then, I like the challenge. And like I said the details would need to be ironed out. I think 15 abilities in one fight is a lot, look at how many major abilities current encounters have, not that many.

When I was playing EQ2 three years ago, most encounters had 3 maybe 4 major abilities that you had to deal with, 15 would be insane. Also, note that I listed 20 total possibilities, but only 15 on hard mode, this would mean that the players would still not be able to count on any specific ability, and still keep it fresh.

Also, these are major abilities, like huge attacks, heals, stuns and other stuff like that, not just standard auto-attack, potential raid wiping abilities.

See that sounds fun. I hated having to study for a run. I want to have fun, even when hardcore raiding. Guessing what is coming next is fun. As long as most of the abilities are not insta wipe damages adds excitement.

I would also enjoy world bosses of different factions/races. Where I am going with this is if your race/faction protected them from dying got a reward. If the enemy faction/race defeated them got a reward.

And have more dev events, some of the most fun I have had is when the devs took control of bosses and brought them into the cities for pure mayhem. Randomly do that once a week on each server during high population times.

Count Zarth
03-14-2014, 10:32 AM
Yo, who's the kind soul who lent me their beta login awhile back? Need password.

Nevermind, I'm in.

hometeam
03-14-2014, 01:20 PM
Yo, who's the kind soul who lent me their beta login awhile back? Need password.

Nevermind, I'm in.

Was me.

Count Zarth
03-14-2014, 01:42 PM
I'm actually having fun so far. The combat is nice, world looks awesome.

Count Zarth
03-14-2014, 10:30 PM
It's pretty bland.

No sense of open world exploration at all.

And I can't even steal a horse.

If I can't steal horses, it's not an Elder Scrolls game.

Fuck you Bethesda.

Setsuna
03-15-2014, 01:28 PM
It's pretty bland.

No sense of open world exploration at all.

And I can't even steal a horse.

If I can't steal horses, it's not an Elder Scrolls game.

**** you Bethesda.
I think they planned on taking your money first then adding in an actual crime system afterwards in a later patch.

Count Zarth
03-15-2014, 01:38 PM
I think they planned on taking your money first then adding in an actual crime system afterwards in a later patch.

It just doesn't feel like an Elder Scrolls game. I can't steal shit. I see a sword laying on the ground. Can't pick it up.

Went into a palace to do a quest. It was way too easy, first of all. Second of all, there was no fucking palace to explore. I wanted to go down into the dungeons and steal shit, rob the king blind.

Fuck this game.

Pants
03-15-2014, 01:44 PM
It just doesn't feel like an Elder Scrolls game. I can't steal shit. I see a sword laying on the ground. Can't pick it up.

Went into a palace to do a quest. It was way too easy, first of all. Second of all, there was no fucking palace to explore. I wanted to go down into the dungeons and steal shit, rob the king blind.

Fuck this game.

Bro, it's an MMO. If you like the Bethesda experience, you're going to have to wait for Fallout 4.

Count Zarth
03-15-2014, 01:46 PM
Bro, it's an MMO. If you like the Bethesda experience, you're going to have to wait for Fallout 4.

I've had fun in MMOs before. LOTRO was fun. SWG and SWTOR were fun.

I'm done with this.

Pants
03-15-2014, 01:48 PM
I've had fun in MMOs before. LOTRO was fun. SWG and SWTOR were fun.

I'm done with this.

I was speaking more to your point that ESO did not feel like an ES product.

hometeam
03-15-2014, 03:56 PM
Im telling you, im calling it now, just wait for it to go f2p if you have to experience the content.

thecoffeeguy
04-03-2014, 11:51 AM
I tried the beta again and I just can not get into this game. Something about the mechanics, the way you move around and execute skills, just does not seem very smooth. Just seems lacking.