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View Full Version : Chiefs Let's do the Pioli thing again.


Direckshun
05-27-2012, 04:02 PM
I know there's a strong anti-Pioli current around here, and some people pretty much want the guy gone yesterday.

It's not because he's building a lopsided team on one side of the ball, like we've had since we hired Marty Schottenheimer.

It's not because he's drafted poorly. Even if you include 2009, he's been a top five drafting GM. I don't give a shit about Dexter McCluster. At least he gives you something -- I prefer that burnt 2nd round pick to Turk McBride and Bernard Pollard.

It's not because he can't acquire talent. Excepting 2009, we've had successful acquisitions with virtually no busts in free agency.

Coaching hires? Please. Haley and Crennel are pure talent-development coaches. Weis and Crennel were extraordinary hires as coordinators. Daboll isn't a great acquisition, but it's a good fit for the talent on this team.

It's not because he can't build a team. Few people deny that this team is as talented and as deep everywhere as all but something like five or six teams in the league (QB excepted), maybe fewer.

So why?

Because of the quarterback position? Pioli doesn't care about the QB position, right?

Riiiight.

It's not exactly a high bar to clear, but Quinn and Stanzi provide us the best QB depth this team has. We had the choice between Cassel and Sanchez, and made the right choice. We passed on Dalton -- few people could blame us for that, in hindsight a true mistake.

But we all know the Cassel yarn is unraveling. That's the point of my question -- what happens if we give Pioli 10 years?

Letting Orton slide, whiffing on Manning, all the frustration from fans and the media...

Cassel's got a year left, probably. He's got a max of what, three years left? At the absolute extreme?

What do you expect then? You think Pioli's just going to hop from one discarded backup to the next? To another stopgap option and hope to coast until he gets fired?

This is the best this team has been in a long time. Add a good QB to the mix, and this team is knocking on Super Bowl doors for a decade.

Why do you want to walk away from that?

Why do you want to gamble on god knows what the next GM might be like?

There's no chance the next GM is a better draft or a guy who's going to be far more likely to burn millions on free agents that don't pan out.

There's no chance the next GM puts a better balance on the field. And may not hire coaches who value development as much as Pioli does.

I'm a really big fan of Pioli.

I agree, he needs to pull his head out of his ass on QB. But he did the right thing, he picked his guy there and gave him every chance.

/purehate

the Talking Can
05-27-2012, 04:07 PM
pioli gets credit for hiring a HC he had to fire mid-season?


hilarious

Okie_Apparition
05-27-2012, 04:08 PM
The median age of your average CP poster=Old & cranky

Saul Good
05-27-2012, 04:10 PM
I'm still good with Pioli.

Flachief58
05-27-2012, 04:10 PM
:clap:

L.A. Chieffan
05-27-2012, 04:11 PM
Cassell will prove pioli a true genius

notorious
05-27-2012, 04:14 PM
Cassell will prove pioli a true genius

And there you have it.




Pioli has done a good job with everything but QB, HC, and OC.


None of those positions are important, though. 2000 Balitmore Ravens FTW!

bevischief
05-27-2012, 04:16 PM
Cassel.

Reaper16
05-27-2012, 04:16 PM
It's not that Pioli doesn't care about the QB position, it's that he has no idea about how to evaluate it.

wazu
05-27-2012, 04:16 PM
Pioli has been here 3 years, and we've won 0 playoff games. All signs point to year 4 being a continuation of that pattern. Not really seeing what's to like about the Pioli era so far.

Deberg_1990
05-27-2012, 04:19 PM
I don't hate the guy like a lot of people here. But bottom
Line he's failed to make the playoff in 2 out of 3 years here and when they did they failed to show up.

For comparison, By year 3 and 4 of Carl and Marty they had made the playoffs 3 times and won a few playoff games.

BossChief
05-27-2012, 04:22 PM
I don't hate the guy like a lot of people here. But bottom
Line he's failed to make the playoff in 2 out of 3 years here and when they did they failed to show up.

For comparison, By year 3 and 4 of Carl and Marty they had made the playoffs 3 times and won a few playoff games.

A few playoff games, huh?

Deberg_1990
05-27-2012, 04:23 PM
A few playoff games, huh?

Yea I guess 1 in 91. 93 would have been their 5th season. Sorry

prhom
05-27-2012, 04:26 PM
pioli gets credit for hiring a HC he had to fire mid-season?


hilarious

I don't fault him too much for that. I'd rather him fire Haley then, than wait until the end of the season to do it when they had already decided he was going to be gone.

I just wish Pioli was as decisive about Cassel. It's like every other person on the team is expendable except him. It's never his fault for anything!

the Talking Can
05-27-2012, 04:28 PM
we've accomplished nothing

we hired and fired a HC mid-season because the HC and GM turned the franchise into a Telenovela which was the laughing stock of the league

we've wasted 4 years on a joke of a QB who the GM hand picked and insists is a franchise QB

we have nothing on the roster worth a shit at the QB position

we had palko as a backup QB last year, because of the GM

we're on our 3rd OC in 4 years

we hired a 2nd HC whose previous experience as HC was a failure

we've been rebuilding since 2008

we have no proven QB or HC

i'll suck his cock when it is warranted

the Talking Can
05-27-2012, 04:29 PM
I don't fault him too much for that. I'd rather him fire Haley then, than wait until the end of the season to do it when they had already decided he was going to be gone.

I just wish Pioli was as decisive about Cassel. It's like every other person on the team is expendable except him. It's never his fault for anything!

he hired Haley

he's responsible for it....he chose the guy who later became a dumpster fire

there's no excusing it away

Der Flöprer
05-27-2012, 04:30 PM
This team was one of the worst in the league when Pioli got here. I mean they were hideous. This is the year I expect them to break out. No excuses. No whining about the line, no pissing about strength of schedule, nothing. Do it, or get the fuck out. I'm pretty good with that.

Chocolate Hog
05-27-2012, 04:30 PM
Pioli has had this team finish in last place 2 out of 3 years.



End of conversation.

Okie_Apparition
05-27-2012, 04:31 PM
THe Palko fiasco was densecitily mind bottling

KCtotheSB
05-27-2012, 04:32 PM
Shiiiit....dat fool's still my *AFRICAN AMERICAN CHUM*.

BoneKrusher
05-27-2012, 04:34 PM
This team was one of the worst in the league when Pioli got here. I mean they were hideous. This is the year I expect them to break out. No excuses. No whining about the line, no pissing about strength of schedule, nothing. Do it, or get the **** out. I'm pretty good with that.

this sounds good with me as well.

BigMeatballDave
05-27-2012, 04:35 PM
I'd really rather not...

keg in kc
05-27-2012, 04:36 PM
Deepest, most talented team they've had in the 13 years I've followed the team. And it's not even close.

Unfortunately they're still short at the one really important spot.

prhom
05-27-2012, 04:44 PM
he hired Haley

he's responsible for it....he chose the guy who later became a dumpster fire

there's no excusing it away

I doubt Clark sees it this way. I think the only unforgivable sin as a GM is to refuse to admit to a mistake. They hired Haley for a reason and when he was no longer able to deliver on his potential he was gone. Some people here on CP hate that we hired Romeo as HC, and even more seemed to hate the idea of us bringing in Fisher. Yet when we take a chance on an unproven HC we also hate it? So what is Pioli supposed to do? Should he be fired because his first HC selection was a failure?

I don't advocate playing it safe all of the time when it comes to selecting personnel, and let's face it KC is not the first choice for anyone when it comes to attracting top guys. Pioli has to roll the dice and take the chance. I'll be tired of Pioli when he stops taking chances to make us a great team. He's on thin ice with the Cassel situation, but I don't hate him for picking Haley.

SNR
05-27-2012, 04:49 PM
I agree with everything you said in the OP about Pioli. He deserves credit for all those things.

In general, I think he's doing a pretty okay job. It certainly could be fucking worse.

I do think you're giving him too easy of a pass on the QB issue though. There's no other way to describe that other than cronyism. Pioli claims he's not married to Cassel. Bull fucking shit. Not being married to a traded QB looks like Arizona with Kolb. Or what Washington did with Beck. Seattle with Tarvaris Jackson. All those guys had potential, and were given two seasons to try to make it in the NFL. All of them failed, and we will see if Kolb can right his ship. Based on what I and the Cards franchise has seen, I'll bet he doesn't. The fact that it's been 3 years and Cassel is not only still challenging for the starting spot, but he's been GIVEN the damn thing. What was it Pioli said about competition at all spots? That's a bold flat fucking lie he told to the franchise just because he has some kind of weird Patriot mancrush on a QB who sucks. And it's embarrassing. He should get flayed alive for that instead of letting it slide as a "Well what was he supposed to do QBs don't grow on trees!"

I'm not all that angry about the Crennel hire. I'm willing to give Romeo a shot. I'll give Pioli props for firing Haley. Daboll is... meh, whatever. It's clear that no coach really wants to play for Scott except for people in his circle. If we had to pick SOMEone from within that circle to be our head coach, I guess Crennel is one of the better options. But this season means high fucking expectations. No more 8-8s or 9-7s being counted as successful. We either start winning some playoff games, or you blow up this fucking mess and start over again with a new GM.

Since that Babb article Pioli has the reputation of being an asshole around the league. And not the good kind, either. The bad kind. He probably had that reputation before, but now it seems to follow him wherever he goes. And that's fine if we're winning. If we're not, then he's a fucking goat.

He's okay right now. He gets one more year from me before I become as violent about firing him as GoChiefs gets.

the Talking Can
05-27-2012, 05:04 PM
I doubt Clark sees it this way. I think the only unforgivable sin as a GM is to refuse to admit to a mistake. They hired Haley for a reason and when he was no longer able to deliver on his potential he was gone. Some people here on CP hate that we hired Romeo as HC, and even more seemed to hate the idea of us bringing in Fisher. Yet when we take a chance on an unproven HC we also hate it? So what is Pioli supposed to do? Should he be fired because his first HC selection was a failure?

I don't advocate playing it safe all of the time when it comes to selecting personnel, and let's face it KC is not the first choice for anyone when it comes to attracting top guys. Pioli has to roll the dice and take the chance. I'll be tired of Pioli when he stops taking chances to make us a great team. He's on thin ice with the Cassel situation, but I don't hate him for picking Haley.

he's responsible for failing in his first HC hire....it's a real simple point to grasp

he's now on HC #2..we'll see what happens

he's responsible for failing in his first selection of a QB

these don't require long winded rationalizations...

prhom
05-27-2012, 05:04 PM
I can handle giving Pioli extra time depending on how he handles the Cassel situation this year. Right now, he seems to be blind to the fact that Cassel shows nothing of the elite form we need. If that's just a media ruse, fine. If he really isn't willing to move on if Cassel has a bad season, then fuck him. You can't spend 4 years trying out a QB that only leads us to losing records and a playoff blowout at home and keep your job. At least I don't think you should.

Chocolate Hog
05-27-2012, 05:08 PM
You guys are fucking cherry picking things instead of looking at overall results.

The Chiefs are 21-27 since Pioli took over. That's all that matters.

BryanBusby
05-27-2012, 05:10 PM
I went outside for a run today and my dick got all sweaty.

I like cheese.

Guru
05-27-2012, 05:12 PM
I don't hate the guy like a lot of people here. But bottom
Line he's failed to make the playoff in 2 out of 3 years here and when they did they failed to show up.

For comparison, By year 3 and 4 of Carl and Marty they had made the playoffs 3 times and won a few playoff games.

But we have a pro bowl QB.

KCUnited
05-27-2012, 05:13 PM
All of the over/unders I've seen have KC around 8 wins. That's the realistic expectation in year 4.

Guru
05-27-2012, 05:14 PM
Pioli has had this team finish in last place 2 out of 3 years.



End of conversation.
But we won the division 1 out of 3 years.

BigMeatballDave
05-27-2012, 05:15 PM
I don't hate the guy like a lot of people here. But bottom
Line he's failed to make the playoff in 2 out of 3 years here and when they did they failed to show up.

For comparison, By year 3 and 4 of Carl and Marty they had made the playoffs 3 times and won a few playoff games.

Season 5 is when they won 2 playoff games.

Season 3 they beat the Raiders in a WC game.

BigMeatballDave
05-27-2012, 05:16 PM
But we have a pro bowl QB.

Not only that, he's elite...

Guru
05-27-2012, 05:17 PM
Season 5 is when they won 2 playoff games.

Season 3 they beat the Raiders in a WC game.

So we damn well better win a playoff game this year.

Guru
05-27-2012, 05:17 PM
Not only that, he's elite...

He's a football God.

prhom
05-27-2012, 05:18 PM
he's responsible for failing in his first HC hire....it's a real simple point to grasp

he's now on HC #2..we'll see what happens

he's responsible for failing in his first selection of a QB

these don't require long winded rationalizations...

Ok then, talking can does not approve of Pioli. Easy enough to grasp. No need to discuss further.

keg in kc
05-27-2012, 05:19 PM
The Chiefs are 21-27 since Pioli took over. That's all that matters.Which is an improvement over the 15-33 in the preceding three years (or 6-26 in the preceding 2).

BossChief
05-27-2012, 05:19 PM
You guys are fucking cherry picking things instead of looking at overall results.

The Chiefs are 21-27 since Pioli took over. That's all that matters.

That's stupid.

At least you could throw out the 2009 win loss record to keep things fair.

That 4-12 record wasn't due to his failings as the GM.

That makes it 17-13 and the arrow is pointing way up.

Berry
Moeaki
Charles
Winston
Boss
Hudson
Hillis

That's a group of upgrades over 2011s squad that should be able to give us a good chance at having our best year in awhile.

Guru
05-27-2012, 05:20 PM
That's stupid.

At least you could throw out the 2009 win loss record to keep things fair.

That 4-12 record wasn't due to his failings as the GM.

That makes it 17-13 and the arrow is pointing way up.

Berry
Moeaki
Charles
Winston
Boss
Hudson
Hillis

That's a group of upgrades over 2011s squad that should be able to give us a good chance at having our best year in awhile.
I have to agree with this. 2009 is a throw away year.

prhom
05-27-2012, 05:21 PM
Which is an improvement over the 15-33 in the preceding three years (or 6-26 in the preceding 2).

Damn, we've really sucked for a while now.

Guru
05-27-2012, 05:23 PM
Hell, we have been rebuilding since 2006.

BryanBusby
05-27-2012, 05:24 PM
Clark Hunt thanks you for your season ticket money regardless, here's a free cloth to wear!

BigMeatballDave
05-27-2012, 05:25 PM
He's a football God(dess).:thumb:

Chocolate Hog
05-27-2012, 05:25 PM
That's stupid.

At least you could throw out the 2009 win loss record to keep things fair.

That 4-12 record wasn't due to his failings as the GM.

That makes it 17-13 and the arrow is pointing way up.

Berry
Moeaki
Charles
Winston
Boss
Hudson
Hillis

That's a group of upgrades over 2011s squad that should be able to give us a good chance at having our best year in awhile.

Again cherry picking. Basing a success off overall record is stupid?

2009: The year Pioli hired Todd Haley, traded for Cassel, and drafted Tyson Jackson. that draft was an overall F. that's on Pioli.

BigMeatballDave
05-27-2012, 05:27 PM
Billay must be auditioning for drafterbater...

BigChiefFan
05-27-2012, 05:28 PM
You guys are ****ing cherry picking things instead of looking at overall results.

The Chiefs are 21-27 since Pioli took over. That's all that matters.After inheriting a team that went 15-33 and had the WORST two year span in TEAM HISTORY.

Chocolate Hog
05-27-2012, 05:29 PM
After inheriting a team that went 15-33 and had the WORST two year span in TEAM HISTORY.

After inheriting the 2008 draft class one of the best in Chiefs franchise history he did NOTHING with the 2009 draft nor free agency. His free agent signings have been overall failures.

keg in kc
05-27-2012, 05:30 PM
Hell, we have been rebuilding since 2006.I'd say they've been rebuilding since 2001.

Guru
05-27-2012, 05:31 PM
I'd say they've been rebuilding since 2001.

2005 was the end of the unbalanced teams. After that, we got consistently bad on both sides of the ball.

Simply Red
05-27-2012, 05:35 PM
absolute terrible business person, I think Carl Peterson was just as good if not better.

Chocolate Hog
05-27-2012, 05:40 PM
2005 was the end of the unbalanced teams. After that, we got consistently bad on both sides of the ball.

Thing is in 2004 that team had a chance to be real good but for whatever reason Carl thought it would be better to keep the same players on defense and hire Gunther Cunningham.

Guru
05-27-2012, 05:41 PM
absolute terrible business person, I think Carl Peterson was just as good if not better.

:spock: Carl was a great team president but horrible GM. He could handle the business side of things great but that was it. He was the king of mediocre.

Granted we are still less than mediocre but Pioli has been fine at everything sans HC and QB.

Fuck. We really are screwed.

RunKC
05-27-2012, 05:42 PM
In 2009, we struggled mightily in the first half, but in the 2nd half we played much better. We won 3 of the 8 games and lost by a TD or less in 3 of the 5 losses.

Since midseason of 2009 to now, we are an even 20-20, and that's with all the injuries we had last year.

I think you'll find that Daboll will be a very good OC for this team. His play selection confused teams last year and still worked with Matt Moore at QB.

If Daboll can get the most out of a lesser talented QB in Miami, along with Weis being within an hour to help Cassel (he was at OTA's btw), I think we'll see a Cassel similar to the 2010 form.

The OL will be the key to the season. Last year our OL sucked and Cassel got ran over. Getting Winston was huge and Hudson looks like he will become an above average C from what I saw last year. Cassel looked good in 2010 when the OL gave him time and our coaching staff knows that better than anyone.

This team has to win 10 games this year, which there is no reason why they shouldn't (unless we get plagued with injuries like last year). Pioli knows this team has to go to the playoffs this year at the minimum.

Guru
05-27-2012, 05:51 PM
Wiess is whispering in RACs ear about getting Quinn in there and you know it.

L.A. Chieffan
05-27-2012, 05:54 PM
Casell goes to the pro bowl this year and that'll be two times in three years. I think qb situation is fine, nice work Scott.

BoneKrusher
05-27-2012, 05:59 PM
Casell goes to the pro bowl this year and that'll be two times in three years. I think qb situation is fine, nice work Scott.

:facepalm:

Okie_Apparition
05-27-2012, 06:03 PM
If Weis helps Castle he should be fired
He'll quit by years end anyway -nm

BigMeatballDave
05-27-2012, 06:50 PM
Casell goes to the pro bowl this year and that'll be two times in three years. I think qb situation is fine, nice work Scott.

You are dedicated.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-27-2012, 06:52 PM
Maui Wowie Pioli Punch

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-27-2012, 06:53 PM
This is a very big year for him and the team.

Dylan
05-27-2012, 07:12 PM
The Chiefs' offensive line is ten times better than the Giants' offensive line ... just saying.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-27-2012, 07:17 PM
The Chiefs' offensive line is ten times better than the Giants' offensive line ... just saying.

Your QB is 100 times better though :(

milkman
05-27-2012, 07:53 PM
In 2009, we struggled mightily in the first half, but in the 2nd half we played much better. We won 3 of the 8 games and lost by a TD or less in 3 of the 5 losses.

Since midseason of 2009 to now, we are an even 20-20, and that's with all the injuries we had last year.

I think you'll find that Daboll will be a very good OC for this team. His play selection confused teams last year and still worked with Matt Moore at QB.

If Daboll can get the most out of a lesser talented QB in Miami, along with Weis being within an hour to help Cassel (he was at OTA's btw), I think we'll see a Cassel similar to the 2010 form.

The OL will be the key to the season. Last year our OL sucked and Cassel got ran over. Getting Winston was huge and Hudson looks like he will become an above average C from what I saw last year. Cassel looked good in 2010 when the OL gave him time and our coaching staff knows that better than anyone.

This team has to win 10 games this year, which there is no reason why they shouldn't (unless we get plagued with injuries like last year). Pioli knows this team has to go to the playoffs this year at the minimum.

The head coach of a division 1 football program is not going to have time to help out our brokedick QB.

And the rumors are that Charlie Weis gave up trying to fix our brokedick QB by midseason or earlier anyway.

And Cassel looked "good" agianst a weakass schedule, with defenses keying on Jamaal Charles.

He shit his pants against good teams, and has done so each and every time he has faced one of those.

Scott Pioli went the safe route.

He traded for someone he was familiar with rather than risking a draft bust at QB.

And sadly, that someone he was familiar with speaks to the fact that when it comes to QB play, he doesn't have a fucking clue.

Der Flöprer
05-27-2012, 08:00 PM
The head coach of a division 1 football program is not going to have time to help out our brokedick QB.

And the rumors are that Charlie Weis gave up trying to fix our brokedick QB by midseason or earlier anyway.

And Cassel looked "good" agianst a weakass schedule, with defenses keying on Jamaal Charles.

He shit his pants against good teams, and has done so each and every time he has faced one of those.

Scott Pioli went the safe route.

He traded for someone he was familiar with rather than risking a draft bust at QB.

And sadly, that someone he was familiar with speaks to the fact that when it comes to QB play, he doesn't have a fucking clue.

I was about to say, no fucking way Weis spends 1 second focused on anything besides Kansas football. An otherwise thoughtful post was ruined by even the mention of something so silly.

Ace Gunner
05-27-2012, 08:28 PM
cassel sucks, hunt is an idiot. pioli at least knows football and can put a few things together for a team. and I was pleased to see you (OP) describe the coaching selections based in talent focused development types, because the systems this team runs are unique to the parcells coaching tree and you have to teach those systems very fundamentally when first starting up with a team. haley, weis & crennel are all from that tree.

I never liked cassel, but was willing to give the dude a chance. but I knew from watching a pre season pats game years before that he is a baseball player masquerading as a QB. I felt he'd be good for the chiefs because he was sturdy that season he played for brady and he had 50 sacks but kept getting back up. the chiefs needed that badly, so it was a good choice back then and still, I think it has been good for the team to have a steady if not good QB. but, enough.

pioli should have replaced cassel last off season. that to me is gonna come back on him. but, we;ll see. maybe golden socal boy can pull it out for pioli. regardless, he'll get at least until the end of 2013 to put a team together.

L.A. Chieffan
05-27-2012, 08:30 PM
Right, pioli is going to replace a qb immediately after a playoff appearance and a pro bowl. U guys need to lay off the crack.

milkman
05-27-2012, 08:34 PM
Right, pioli is going to replace a qb immediately after a playoff appearance and a pro bowl. U guys need to lay off the crack.

Ozzie Newsome replaced a QB that won the SB the year immediatley following that SB.

17th fucking alternate for the ProBowl.

Big fucking deal.

And, dumbass, I embelished the 17th.

Your trolling is getting fucking old.

L.A. Chieffan
05-27-2012, 08:36 PM
Ozzie Newsome replaced a QB that won the SB the year immediatley following that SB.

17th fucking alternate for the ProBowl.

Big fucking deal.

And, dumbass, I embelished the 17th.

Your trolling is getting fucking old.

Good for Ozzie fucking newsome, that don't mean shit.

You're just old.

L.A. Chieffan
05-27-2012, 08:41 PM
Oh btw, how many superbowls have the ravens won since they let dilfer walk?

Exactly, dumbass

BigMeatballDave
05-27-2012, 09:04 PM
Oh btw, how many superbowls have the ravens won since they let dilfer walk?

Exactly, dumbass

LMAO

BossChief
05-27-2012, 09:11 PM
They replaced him with Grbac.

Should have kept Dilfer.

milkman
05-27-2012, 09:13 PM
They replaced him with Grbac.

Should have kept Dilfer.

Yes, but they tried, and have continued to try.

That's all I ask.

Just ****ing try.

jspchief
05-27-2012, 10:10 PM
After inheriting a team that went 15-33 and had the WORST two year span in TEAM HISTORY.

He inherited a team that did all the dirty work. Torn down to the foundation. That terrible stretch was the product of starting from scratch, something Peterson never allowed the the team to do.

And so far Pioli looks hell bent on taking after Peterson. Making safe moves, taking familiar QBs and coaches. The two biggest moves he made were Cassel and Haley, and they both failed.

RunKC
05-27-2012, 10:21 PM
The head coach of a division 1 football program is not going to have time to help out our brokedick QB.

And the rumors are that Charlie Weis gave up trying to fix our brokedick QB by midseason or earlier anyway.

And Cassel looked "good" agianst a weakass schedule, with defenses keying on Jamaal Charles.

He shit his pants against good teams, and has done so each and every time he has faced one of those.

Scott Pioli went the safe route.

He traded for someone he was familiar with rather than risking a draft bust at QB.

And sadly, that someone he was familiar with speaks to the fact that when it comes to QB play, he doesn't have a ****ing clue.

What about in NE? Cassel beat some good teams there. And it sure looks like our running game is gonna help Cassel again.

And I would take Cassel over Sanchez anyday.

Sanchez had success early, but he had a damn good running game and an overall great team like Cassel has this year.

milkman
05-27-2012, 10:30 PM
What about in NE? Cassel beat some good teams there. And it sure looks like our running game is gonna help Cassel again.

And I would take Cassel over Sanchez anyday.

Sanchez had success early, but he had a damn good running game and an overall great team like Cassel has this year.

No, actually, the Patriots played a weak schedule against the AFC West and the NFC West in '08.

Dylan
05-28-2012, 01:39 AM
Your QB is 100 times better though :(

I understand your concerns, but, Pioli has faith in Matt Cassel. In the last few years, there has been some horrendous games and some good games. However, looking over Cassel's history, the bad seems to have outweighted the good.

After quarterback, the Chiefs it seems have the positions to winning in the NFL - Wide receivers, hybrid tight ends, strong running backs, defensive backs, and pass rushers. Now Cassel is coming off an injury - You have to win with the hand you're dealt.

This is Cassel's fourth season in Kansas City. If he's your franchise quarterback, he has to lead his team deeper into the playoffs - or it should be his last.

Pioli has to think of the now and two years from now. While defense still matters, it's a quarterbacks league.

Pioli has to bring back glory to the Chiefs ... and a Super Bowl trophy the fans deserve.

In closing, I certainly hope my opinions will not offend or upset anyone.

Psyko Tek
05-28-2012, 01:48 AM
THe Palko fiasco was densecitily mind bottling

i have no idea what you are misspelling there
an fuck cassel, we have a great defense, dercent O,
but no QB, tired of the kickers being the MVP on offense

chiefs1111
05-28-2012, 01:58 AM
Yes, but they tried, and have continued to try.

That's all I ask.

Just ****ing try.

This. Times a fucking million.

aturnis
05-28-2012, 03:01 AM
Outside of QB, everyone on this board LOVES the team Pioli has built. Period. You can try to knock him by pointing out that many of our studs were already present when he arrived, but the fact that he has retained them, and at great value contract wise, is a testament to what he's done.

The MAJOR grip people have with Pioli are some of his more questionable moves. Mostly the signing or lack thereof of free agents, passing on guys in the draft, and letting guys walk in FA.

Thing is, I don't think you can really find a real bad decision up until this point.

People cried he passed on Sanchez, he was right.
Cried he passed on Clausen, he was right.
Cried he didn't sign A. Franklin and ignored NT altogether, he seemed to be right.
There are more, I know, but this is a good start.

As for choices he's made that we have yet to see the outcome?

Letting Carr walk.
Letting Gilberry walk.
Letting Orton walk.

I think he's right on the last two, and I think guys might be surprised on how the Chiefs fair on the Carr/Routt swap.

Factor in his ability to get something in trade for players who seemingly have no value, and his draft trade success and he has done a VERY good job.

With his track record on these decisions, whether they rubbed you the wrong way or not, it really does make you wonder if he had more to do with NE's ability to always come out on top when trading draft picks and players and FA movement than we give him credit for.

As for the QB situation. I REALLY think Pioli knows what he's doing. I'm not a fanboy, in fact, I've been very critical at times, but he just seems to be right more often than not. For instance, he has been chastised for ignoring NT for so long, but the huge splashes and draft passes don't seem to have been a big deal. There certainly weren't any guys we completely missed out on. If Poe turns out, I will applaud his decision to wait until the time is right.

Same goes for the QB position. Either he TRULY believes Stanzi is the guy, and needs some seasoning before being tossed into a hot pan, or he doesn't think he's come across the right guy yet.(Luck and RG3 excluded, and you can make an argument that they missed on Dalton)

If they go with a top QB in next years draft, and he turns out, it'll be further proof he knows what he's doing. Proof that just like his patience with NT, he's making fine wine, while everyone else wants to pop the cork on a $5 bottle of half fermented grape juice.

aturnis
05-28-2012, 03:05 AM
sorry if the above post is spacey and discombobulated, it's 3a.m. and my brain is still emulsified from seeing The Avengers earlier tonight...

Okie_Apparition
05-28-2012, 05:52 AM
The problem could be above Pioli
Haley said, nothing could get done because every little thing had to go through Dallas. & By wonders of this board, Clark doesn't live in Dallas. Or the country for that matter.

Which brings up the point, Clark is not the owner but the owners' chosen representative. If there has to be a family vote on changing the team's paper towel provider. Clark & Pioli better get some success fast or it will only get worse

Okie_Apparition
05-28-2012, 06:02 AM
It's nothing really a locked boardroom & 10 gallon Igloo spigot cooler of Mountainberry Punch can not solve

Mojo Jojo
05-28-2012, 06:12 AM
Other things to put into play....under Carl ticket base grew under Pioli shrinks. The Chiefs are facing multiple lawsuits since Pioli arrived. Being President/GM is much more than a QB.

el borracho
05-28-2012, 09:41 AM
While I recognize many of the good things Pioli has accomplished the fact is that, in today's NFL, the quarterback and head coach define the team. Unfortunately, those are Pioli's biggest failings. Does anyone really think that Cassel and Crennel will lead the Chiefs to a Super Bowl? I don't.

Ace Gunner
05-28-2012, 10:39 AM
Right, pioli is going to replace a qb immediately after a playoff appearance and a pro bowl. U guys need to lay off the crack.

hey, he lost that playoff game in loser fashion & he wasn't voted into the probowl, he got there by default. so :D

SNR
05-28-2012, 11:23 AM
I'm seeing Trent Dilfer comparisons in this thread. Even if they're meant in jest.

The problem is that Trent Dilfer isn't good enough. The team is built like a brick shit house. It's solid from top to bottom. Depth everywhere, and each starter is at least adequate. EXCEPT the quarterback. Trent Dilfer doesn't win a Super Bowl without an elite defense. And our defense, while solid, is not yet elite. Maybe if Poe turns into a monster, but not until then. We still need an upper-echelon QB to make this work.

Manning would have done the trick. Same with RGIII or Luck. And I argued all draft season that Tannehill could have been the guy too. Someone with the talent of Matt Schaub would have been the absolute minimum we could have worked with.

All those guys are way better than Dilfer. At the point we don't have any choice but to trust in Stanzi.

tredadda
05-28-2012, 01:41 PM
The biggest knock on Pioli IMO is his apparent unwavering support for Cassel. I don't knock him for bringing in Cassel as we needed a QB at the time and he came off a very good season in NE. Who knew that he was hot garbage that was protected by an insane amount of talent and would only excel against the worst teams in the league.

With Haley, I do not knock Pioli for that one either. GMs swing and miss all the time on HCs which would explain the high turnover at that position. When it became clear Haley was not the answer Pioli got rid of him and moved on. Here's hoping Romeo does better the second time around.

When it comes to the OC situation, Haley let Gailey go and caused Weis to leave, that is not on the GM. So in essence he has done a good job overall in building a solid team. I think people will feel much better about him if he will abandon his unyielding support for Cassel and finally draft a 1st round QB.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-28-2012, 01:43 PM
I'm seeing Trent Dilfer comparisons in this thread. Even if they're meant in jest.

The problem is that Trent Dilfer isn't good enough. The team is built like a brick shit house. It's solid from top to bottom. Depth everywhere, and each starter is at least adequate. EXCEPT the quarterback. Trent Dilfer doesn't win a Super Bowl without an elite defense. And our defense, while solid, is not yet elite. Maybe if Poe turns into a monster, but not until then. We still need an upper-echelon QB to make this work.

Manning would have done the trick. Same with RGIII or Luck. And I argued all draft season that Tannehill could have been the guy too. Someone with the talent of Matt Schaub would have been the absolute minimum we could have worked with.

All those guys are way better than Dilfer. At the point we don't have any choice but to trust in Stanzi.


:hmmm: I've heard some Terrance Cooper guy throws a pretty mean spiral.

Ace Gunner
05-28-2012, 02:04 PM
I'm seeing Trent Dilfer comparisons in this thread. Even if they're meant in jest.

The problem is that Trent Dilfer isn't good enough. The team is built like a brick shit house. It's solid from top to bottom. Depth everywhere, and each starter is at least adequate. EXCEPT the quarterback. Trent Dilfer doesn't win a Super Bowl without an elite defense. And our defense, while solid, is not yet elite. Maybe if Poe turns into a monster, but not until then. We still need an upper-echelon QB to make this work.

Manning would have done the trick. Same with RGIII or Luck. And I argued all draft season that Tannehill could have been the guy too. Someone with the talent of Matt Schaub would have been the absolute minimum we could have worked with.

All those guys are way better than Dilfer. At the point we don't have any choice but to trust in Stanzi.

while I agree with your points in general, trent dilfer was quite a bit better than cassel or the others on this team. he had good feet & nice quick release, read defense pretty well, was a smooth executer but didn't have much of an arm. he was not real mentally tough, but he played a lot of hard fought games against reggie white & brett favre.

imo, when you get a team that can find several ways to win big games, your QB just needs to help it all along by being clutch during those tight moments in big games. favre only won 1 sb because he made critical mistakes, yet he had all the tools in spades.

you know this is what pioli sees in matt cassel is a guy that can cut down on mistakes when he gets into the red zone. but, he fails to see what we all see in cassel as far as getting there. when you look at that 2010 season, cassel was inconsistent when it came to the end of the season and beyond.

imo haley and the coaching staff did a really good job that season. I don't know whether this team can be coached up to that level again, but that's pretty much what the coaching staff will try to do.

SNR
05-28-2012, 03:06 PM
while I agree with your points in general, trent dilfer was quite a bit better than cassel or the others on this team. he had good feet & nice quick release, read defense pretty well, was a smooth executer but didn't have much of an arm. he was not real mentally tough, but he played a lot of hard fought games against reggie white & brett favre.

imo, when you get a team that can find several ways to win big games, your QB just needs to help it all along by being clutch during those tight moments in big games. favre only won 1 sb because he made critical mistakes, yet he had all the tools in spades.

you know this is what pioli sees in matt cassel is a guy that can cut down on mistakes when he gets into the red zone. but, he fails to see what we all see in cassel as far as getting there. when you look at that 2010 season, cassel was inconsistent when it came to the end of the season and beyond.

imo haley and the coaching staff did a really good job that season. I don't know whether this team can be coached up to that level again, but that's pretty much what the coaching staff will try to do.I don't want 2010 Matt Cassel. Cassel was a leech who got a large chunk of those TDs at the goal line. He gets credit for the low interceptions, but that's it.

He was still mediocre and quite bad at times between the 20s. Unless a guy could get wide fucking open like against Seattle or Tennessee in 2010, Cassel wouldn't throw the fucking ball.

Defenses have been able to pick up on his weaknesses in that respect. I don't think there's a game on our schedule this next year where he could throw for 300+ yards. Not one. Do you see any?

We don't need a 5000-yard passer. But we need a guy who can throw confidently down the field. I don't give a shit about arm strength. Just somebody who will work on timing with these receivers and help throw them open. If we can do that, they'll get softer cushions, which will allow for more passing success, which will open up lanes for Charles and Hillis.

2010 Matt Cassel is still incapable of doing that task. Thus, we're still the same ol' 8-8/9-7 one-and-done playoff team with a list of excuses a mile long.

SNR
05-28-2012, 03:08 PM
You know who I'd take right now if he wasn't such a broke dick? Chad Pennington. He'd be perfect for what we need. Durability issues aside, of course.

Ace Gunner
05-28-2012, 03:13 PM
I don't want 2010 Matt Cassel. Cassel was a leech who got a large chunk of those TDs at the goal line. He gets credit for the low interceptions, but that's it.

He was still mediocre and quite bad at times between the 20s. Unless a guy could get wide ****ing open like against Seattle or Tennessee in 2010, Cassel wouldn't throw the ****ing ball.

Defenses have been able to pick up on his weaknesses in that respect. I don't think there's a game on our schedule this next year where he could throw for 300+ yards. Not one. Do you see any?

We don't need a 5000-yard passer. But we need a guy who can throw confidently down the field. I don't give a shit about arm strength. Just somebody who will work on timing with these receivers and help throw them open. If we can do that, they'll get softer cushions, which will allow for more passing success, which will open up lanes for Charles and Hillis.

2010 Matt Cassel is still incapable of doing that task. Thus, we're still the same ol' 8-8/9-7 one-and-done playoff team with a list of excuses a mile long.

ya, that's right. I doubt i'll watch a matt cassel game. i'll just follow the scores and check post game vids.

Rausch
05-28-2012, 03:17 PM
You know who I'd take right now if he wasn't such a broke dick? Chad Pennington. He'd be perfect for what we need. Durability issues aside, of course.

That's exactly who we have with less in-game smarts...

Chocolate Hog
05-28-2012, 03:25 PM
You know who I'd take right now if he wasn't such a broke dick? Chad Pennington. He'd be perfect for what we need. Durability issues aside, of course.

Yea 9-7 ftw

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

Rausch
05-28-2012, 03:27 PM
Yea 9-7 ftw

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

...

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 07:51 AM
Because of the quarterback position? Pioli doesn't care about the QB position, right?

Riiiight.

It's not exactly a high bar to clear, but Quinn and Stanzi provide us the best QB depth this team has.

How can you say this?

Pioli would have earned a lot of respect from a lot of people if he had gone ahead and done the right thing by signing Orton.

Instead, even if Cassel has a 2010 season again, he has left us in a position where we are absolutely fucked if Cassel goes down, barring a VERY UNLIKELY situation where Brady Quinn proves to be something other than complete shit, and/or Ricky Stanzi is even average in his 2nd year.

We have the worst QB situation in the NFL. It's not that Pioli doesn't care, it's more that he's too arrogant to get out of his own way and fucking fix it.

Saccopoo
05-29-2012, 08:51 AM
We have the worst QB situation in the NFL. It's not that Pioli doesn't care, it's more that he's too arrogant to get out of his own way and ****ing fix it.

I beg to differ:

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/Tim_Tebow_Mark_Sanchez_Press_Conference_New_York_Jets.jpg

And Orton sucks. Period.

He got cut for Tebow - deservedly so might I add.

Cassel is better than Orton and that hurts to type those words.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-29-2012, 08:57 AM
Uh-Oh. You've done ripped on the Golden Children now. Dozens will be along shortly to scold you for ripping on thier beloved Lords Mark and Timmay.

The excuses for Sanchez are about to flow...

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 09:06 AM
I beg to differ:

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/Tim_Tebow_Mark_Sanchez_Press_Conference_New_York_Jets.jpg


Two quarterbacks who have won playoff games > 3 quarterbacks who suck shit.

Got it. :rolleyes:

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 09:08 AM
Cassel is better than Orton.

I can't believe anyone would type this after what happened at the end of last season.

If you were Chekov, and you were being treated at a San Francisco hospital for brain injuries suffered while falling off a naval dock, I would leave you to die and return to the 23rd century and save the whales.

Dave Lane
05-29-2012, 09:18 AM
Which is an improvement over the 15-33 in the preceding three years (or 6-26 in the preceding 2).

Billay is an epic fool for things. Especially if the initials are RP

Dave Lane
05-29-2012, 09:21 AM
Your QB is 100 times better though :(

100 * 0 = ??

themanwithnoname
05-29-2012, 09:24 AM
I beg to differ:

And Orton sucks. Period.

He got cut for Tebow - deservedly so might I add.

Cassel is better than Orton and that hurts to type those words.

I was with you until the stuff about Orton. I do think the end results (wins namely) of Orton and Cassel over time are roughly equal, but Orton is a much better QB. If he'd been with the Chiefs in 2010 and all of 2011 I can all but guarantee that he'd have outperformed Cassel, even if the win-loss record didn't show any improvement. I have no delusions that he'd take us anywhere and I did not want him to be our starter this year either (with the exception being that they openly toss Cassel aside and then say they're looking for the QBotf and Orton is just there until then).

Orton and Cassel are both backup caliber QBs, but I'd take Orton any day over Cassel. Tebow should not even be mentioned in anything to do with QB and you almost completely unravel your argument by posting that Tebow is better than Orton. Cassel is better than Tebow. The only guy I can think of that I wouldn't want over Tebow is Palko. In the realm of not good to bad QBs, Orton>Cassel ~ Sanchez>Tebow. Then again, we're the real losers for even discussing this.

Wow this site is straight up stupid. I can't even quote someone that has a link or pic in their post. :spock:

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-29-2012, 09:26 AM
100 * 0 = ??

Falco isn't in the league any more (until one of Pitt's QB's go down). Cassel's at least a 1.

themanwithnoname
05-29-2012, 09:29 AM
Two quarterbacks who have won playoff games > 3 quarterbacks who suck shit.

Got it. :rolleyes:

They all suck shit. Them winning playoff games does not exclude them from sucking shit.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-29-2012, 09:31 AM
They all suck shit. Them winning playoff games does not exclude them from sucking shit.

But, did you see the way Sanchez handed that ball off!!!

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 09:42 AM
They all suck shit. Them winning playoff games does not exclude them from sucking shit.

No one who is objective would say our QB situation is better than New York's.

Direckshun
05-29-2012, 09:43 AM
How can you say this?

Pioli would have earned a lot of respect from a lot of people if he had gone ahead and done the right thing by signing Orton.

Instead, even if Cassel has a 2010 season again, he has left us in a position where we are absolutely ****ed if Cassel goes down, barring a VERY UNLIKELY situation where Brady Quinn proves to be something other than complete shit, and/or Ricky Stanzi is even average in his 2nd year.

We have the worst QB situation in the NFL. It's not that Pioli doesn't care, it's more that he's too arrogant to get out of his own way and ****ing fix it.

Seriously, Orton is Matt Cassel. They are a wash.

Orton offers a few tools that Cassel doesn't have, but he's useless in the Red Zone.

Cassel's already entrenched here. And either way, we're moving on from whomever the QB is in a year. So it doesn't matter.

We don't have the worst QB situation, by the way. Unless you mean starting QB, in which I'll say yeah, we're probably in the bottom 8.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-29-2012, 09:43 AM
Those special green turds that come out every once in a while are still shit.

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 09:47 AM
Seriously, Orton is Matt Cassel. They are a wash.


No, they are not.

One can throw down the field, one can't.

One can lead an effective pass-first offense, one can't.

That's a huge difference.

Pioli fucked up.

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 09:48 AM
We don't have the worst QB situation, by the way. Unless you mean starting QB, in which I'll say yeah, we're probably in the bottom 8.

Yes we do. Quinn shouldn't be in the NFL. Stanzi is a complete unknown.

We have shit backing up poop.

themanwithnoname
05-29-2012, 09:51 AM
No one who is objective would say our QB situation is better than New York's.

Ok, what does that have to do with my post? My entire argument is that they're both shit, so who cares which one is better?

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 09:54 AM
Ok, what does that have to do with my post? My entire argument is that they're both shit, so who cares which one is better?

My argument is that we have the worst QB situation in the NFL.

Stating that a team with TWO QBs who have won playoff games is a worse QB situation than ours is ludicrous. Not that the Jets have a good QB situation.

Chiefnj2
05-29-2012, 10:02 AM
Orton is such a fiery competitor he decided to sign with a team that gives him no shot at starting. That's the leadership I want.

boogblaster
05-29-2012, 11:03 AM
marty-ball was better .. too bad he didn't have a O .....

CrazyHorse
05-29-2012, 12:09 PM
No, they are not.

One can throw down the field, one can't.

One can lead an effective pass-first offense, one can't.

That's a huge difference.

Pioli ****ed up.

Pioli and 31 other NFL GMs. because that dude aint starting for nobody.

The point isnt load the roster with more shit. Its to find an NFL quality starter.

This argueing over what degree of shiit you want at QB is counter productive, childish, and makes you look ridiculous. Amongst other things.

Just say no to Orton and Sanchez.

Sweet Daddy Hate
05-29-2012, 02:39 PM
But we have a pro bowl QB.

LMAO

Sweet Daddy Hate
05-29-2012, 02:43 PM
"This year will determine everything"!
LMAO

whoman69
05-29-2012, 03:02 PM
But we have a pro bowl QB.

Every time this is said there should be a * or the favorite laughing smiley of choice.

gonefishin53
05-29-2012, 04:16 PM
Maybe getting the "right 18" coaching staff is as important as the "right 53" player roster? Having no confusion about who's in charge of the offense should be better than last year's clusterfvck. Breaking the huddle with 10 seconds left on the play clock was hard to watch. I was dissappointed E. Thomas didn't get promoted to DC.

themanwithnoname
05-29-2012, 05:48 PM
My argument is that we have the worst QB situation in the NFL.

Stating that a team with TWO QBs who have won playoff games is a worse QB situation than ours is ludicrous. Not that the Jets have a good QB situation.

Again, what does that have to do with my post?

Nightfyre
05-29-2012, 05:57 PM
GoChiefs is like a reflexive troll. I don't think he can even help himself anymore. I frankly don't understand why he is still here, let alone accepted by the general populace.

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 07:15 PM
Again, what does that have to do with my post?

Nothing. Just explaining to you why I posted what I posted.

BossChief
05-29-2012, 07:23 PM
Damn GoChiefs, you are a terrible gambler.

whoman69
05-29-2012, 07:31 PM
Damn GoChiefs, you are a terrible gambler.

Its not a gamble when you don't care whether you win the argument. Its all in the reaction he gets.

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 07:37 PM
Damn GoChiefs, you are a terrible gambler.

Am I?

The only reason I lost our bet last year was:

1. Charles got hurt

2. Battle got hurt

3. I still came within ONE CARRY of winning.

Seems like I barely lost a bet despite almost every possible break going against me.

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 07:37 PM
Its not a gamble when you don't care whether you win the argument. Its all in the reaction he gets.

I care very much. You think I didn't want to serve up some Dexist sigs and avs to these idiots?

BossChief
05-29-2012, 08:00 PM
You bet me you SIG AND AVATAR FOR A FULL YEAR that Charles will have 300 offsensive touches this year.

How many other people have you made bets with this currency?

You also said you'd leave for a year if we win 10 games, which is not only POSSIBLE, but PROBABLE.

That's not good business.

aturnis
05-29-2012, 08:02 PM
You bet me you SIG AND AVATAR FOR A FULL YEAR that Charles will have 300 offsensive touches this year.

How many other people have you made bets with this currency?

You also said you'd leave for a year if we win 10 games, which is not only POSSIBLE, but PROBABLE.

That's not good business.

:spock: