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Direckshun
05-29-2012, 02:07 AM
Every year, Memorial Day brings forth a ton of programming about past wars.

And every year, I'm drawn to WW2 shit because it's by far the most fascinating.

And every ****ing year, I get hypnotized by the destruction and sorrow created by the Holocaust.

**** me, man. **** me.

I was born a white Christian in Missouri a scant few decades ago. I could have just as easily been born a Jew in Poland back in the 20s and 30s. And I would have been subjected to medical experiments, my mothers, sisters, daughters exterminated in gas chambers, and extreme starvation and slave labor.

Video is NSFW.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vBtvDKlHI9A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this documentary, around 56 minutes in, you see bulldozers pushing piles of corpses into mass graves.

Bulldozers. What was the ****ing point of it all.

Cornstock
05-29-2012, 02:10 AM
Lt. Aldo Rain and Donny Donowitz are some of my all time favorite people.

tmw4h5
05-29-2012, 02:15 AM
Took a Holocaust course a few years ago -- for one entire semester I was miserable. Great class, but when you spend months researching the topic and see all the footage, read all the letters, etc, etc, it certainly puts things into perspective -- that being that humans are capable of actions of beauty and actions of destruction.

The worst thing about Adolf Hitler is knowing that he wasn't a monster -- he was human -- just like us.


Also, try watching Night and Fog. The scene where they show the piles of hair is absolutely traumatizing.

Munson
05-29-2012, 02:22 AM
One thing I can't understand........even with evidence from pictures, videos, survivors, soldiers, and other eye witnesses, there are still people that deny the Holocaust ever happened.

Fritz88
05-29-2012, 02:57 AM
The probability that you could have been born a Polish Jew are pretty low.
Posted via Mobile Device

pr_capone
05-29-2012, 03:10 AM
A very moving image. Read the numbers. The guys in the pic did not reunite until 2006.

http://i.imgur.com/C85cU.jpg

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3243866,00.html

Saulbadguy
05-29-2012, 06:57 AM
Yeah, that whole thing kinda sucked.

Lonewolf Ed
05-29-2012, 07:13 AM
One thing I can't understand........even with evidence from pictures, videos, survivors, soldiers, and other eye witnesses, there are still people that deny the Holocaust ever happened.

There is no understanding it because hate on such a level is irrational.

JD10367
05-29-2012, 07:24 AM
Fucking Germans, man. They started WWI, the world had to kick their ass to stop it. They started WWII, the world had to kick their ass to stop it, and then split the country in half. We let them reunite it. I say we nuke the fuckers now before they start some shit again.

Braincase
05-29-2012, 07:28 AM
I've had friends and coworkers that had lost entire branches of their family in Europe. I think about it and just wonder "WTF?".

Braincase
05-29-2012, 07:37 AM
****ing Germans, man. They started WWI, the world had to kick their ass to stop it. They started WWII, the world had to kick their ass to stop it, and then split the country in half. We let them reunite it. I say we nuke the ****ers now before they start some shit again.

You should take a trip to Germany. I think you'll find they have learned from their mistakes of the past.

Saulbadguy
05-29-2012, 07:42 AM
You should take a trip to Germany. I think you'll find they have learned from their mistakes of the past.

Besides, Hitler was Austrian. Let's nuke them, instead.

Saulbadguy
05-29-2012, 07:43 AM
I only have a few items on my "bucket list," and visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau is one i'm not looking forward to.

JD10367
05-29-2012, 07:50 AM
Besides, Hitler was Austrian. Let's nuke them, instead.

He was also an actor. Let's nuke Hollywood. :)

If anyone hasn't watched "Schindler's List", you should. It's not overly graphic, but it shows a little insight into how people can be slowly lulled into thinking the horrific is commonplace, especially when swayed by a smooth-talking Satan (as Hitler put those good acting abilities to use in his speeches). Many Germans probably either didn't know, didn't want to know, or were afraid to know.

JD10367
05-29-2012, 07:51 AM
I only have a few items on my "bucket list," and visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau is one i'm not looking forward to.

IIRC Spielberg wanted his film to look realistic, so they wanted to film at Auschwitz, but filming inside wasn't allowed. So instead they built their set outside it. The scene in which you see the train pulling into Auschwitz, it's actually leaving it and pulling into their fake version.

Dave Lane
05-29-2012, 07:58 AM
One thing I can't understand........even with evidence from pictures, videos, survivors, soldiers, and other eye witnesses, there are still people that deny the Holocaust ever happened.

There are people who deny men walked on the moon

or that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii (Mostly DC knuckle draggers)

Or about any other crazy idea you can think of.

Donger
05-29-2012, 08:05 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/h1FHvsuMzAc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ceej
05-29-2012, 08:10 AM
What was the name of the movie about the Holocaust most Social Studies classes had you watch?

That was an incredible movie; and at such a young age a huge eye opener.

Something about Auschwitz; or something.

HonestChieffan
05-29-2012, 08:37 AM
I only have a few items on my "bucket list," and visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau is one i'm not looking forward to.


Been there. You will walk out of the place with lots to think about.

Amnorix
05-29-2012, 08:59 AM
Fucking Germans, man. They started WWI, the world had to kick their ass to stop it.

Honestly, no they didn't. Germany wasn't really any more responsible than anyone else. Because we're America and we ONLY ever fight just and righteous wars, we like to convince ourselves that Germany started it and they're all bad and stuff but....not really.


They started WWII, the world had to kick their ass to stop it, and then split the country in half. We let them reunite it. I say we nuke the fuckers now before they start some shit again.

I'll agree with the first sentence at least. :D

Old Dog
05-29-2012, 09:01 AM
I only have a few items on my "bucket list," and visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau is one i'm not looking forward to.

Didn't do that one, but went to Dachau.
A group of four of us were walking through the grounds and we happen upon an older gentleman who starts talking to us. He had been a prisoner there and pointed out numerous things. We were walking across the bridge crossing a small stream where the gas chamber and crematorium are. I asked him a question (I don't even recall right now what I asked) and noticed that he had stopped at the edge of the bridge.
He told me that, "I can't cross the bridge. People who cross the bridge never come back."
That was roughly 20 years ago and I can still hear his voice as clearly as when he said it.
Some things stick with you forever.

listopencil
05-29-2012, 09:05 AM
Yeah, it's horrible, and we owe it to the victims to keep reminding ourselves of that. The worst thing we can do is allow the Holocaust to be forgotten. So...it's painful. It's traumatic. It makes you feel uncomfortable, even horrified. So be it. Never forget.

Saul Good
05-29-2012, 09:06 AM
...meanwhile, Israel is surrounded by countries that speak openly of wiping them off the map, yet people criticize them for not giving an inch.

Black for Palestine, indeed.

LOCOChief
05-29-2012, 09:13 AM
...meanwhile, Israel is surrounded by countries that speak openly of wiping them off the map, yet people criticize them for not giving an inch.

Black for Palestine, indeed.

No shit, just retarded as hell.

Count Alex's Losses
05-29-2012, 09:15 AM
Fucking Germans, man. They started WWI, the world had to kick their ass to stop it. They started WWII, the world had to kick their ass to stop it, and then split the country in half. We let them reunite it. I say we nuke the fuckers now before they start some shit again.

Germans are also responsible for my existence.

InChiefsHell
05-29-2012, 10:14 AM
Didn't do that one, but went to Dachau.
A group of four of us were walking through the grounds and we happen upon an older gentleman who starts talking to us. He had been a prisoner there and pointed out numerous things. We were walking across the bridge crossing a small stream where the gas chamber and crematorium are. I asked him a question (I don't even recall right now what I asked) and noticed that he had stopped at the edge of the bridge.
He told me that, "I can't cross the bridge. People who cross the bridge never come back."
That was roughly 20 years ago and I can still hear his voice as clearly as when he said it.
Some things stick with you forever.

When I was a kid we went to Dachau. I will NEVER forget the smell of the place...it was like sanitized death or something. I remember seeing the memorial and just not really understanding what I was looking at. Looking back now, it gives me chills.

Old Dog
05-29-2012, 10:18 AM
When I was a kid we went to Dachau. I will NEVER forget the smell of the place...it was like sanitized death or something. I remember seeing the memorial and just not really understanding what I was looking at. Looking back now, it gives me chills.

Very true.

thecoffeeguy
05-29-2012, 11:07 AM
I only have a few items on my "bucket list," and visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau is one i'm not looking forward to.

I've been there. It is a surreal experience. I really dont have words to describe it.

My wife and I spent the day there and did a tour. By the end of the day, you are emotionally drained. Very sobering experience.

thecoffeeguy
05-29-2012, 11:09 AM
...meanwhile, Israel is surrounded by countries that speak openly of wiping them off the map, yet people criticize them for not giving an inch.

Black for Palestine, indeed.

No kidding.

ForeverChiefs58
05-29-2012, 11:22 AM
Every year, Memorial Day brings forth a ton of programming about past wars.

And every year, I'm drawn to WW2 shit because it's by far the most fascinating.

And every ****ing year, I get hypnotized by the destruction and sorrow created by the Holocaust.

**** me, man. **** me.

I was born a white Christian in Missouri a scant few decades ago. I could have just as easily been born a Jew in Poland back in the 20s and 30s. And I would have been subjected to medical experiments, my mothers, sisters, daughters exterminated in gas chambers, and extreme starvation and slave labor.

Video is NSFW.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vBtvDKlHI9A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this documentary, around 56 minutes in, you see bulldozers pushing piles of corpses into mass graves.

Bulldozers. What was the ****ing point of it all.



Interestingly ironic thread considering your avatar and supporting of terrorists who openly support the killing of Jews.

Do you know the role al-Husseini had in aligning with Hitler and exterminating hundreds of thousands?

Do you understand the role al-Husseini has had in shaping the current views in palestine?

With your avatar and support for terrorist groups seeking the extermination of Jews, you are either ignorant of history, or trolling the Holocaust.

Hydrae
05-29-2012, 11:54 AM
Didn't do that one, but went to Dachau.
A group of four of us were walking through the grounds and we happen upon an older gentleman who starts talking to us. He had been a prisoner there and pointed out numerous things. We were walking across the bridge crossing a small stream where the gas chamber and crematorium are. I asked him a question (I don't even recall right now what I asked) and noticed that he had stopped at the edge of the bridge.
He told me that, "I can't cross the bridge. People who cross the bridge never come back."
That was roughly 20 years ago and I can still hear his voice as clearly as when he said it.
Some things stick with you forever.

I was at Dachau in 1976 with my high school band. Very sobering experience that still will run chills down my spine all these years later. I would like to say no one should put themselves through the experience but at the same time, I think we need the reminders.

Part of the memorial:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Dachau_never_again.jpg/800px-Dachau_never_again.jpg

InChiefsHell
05-29-2012, 11:57 AM
I was at Dachau in 1976 with my high school band. Very sobering experience that still will run chills down my spine all these years later. I would like to say no one should put themselves through the experience but at the same time, I think we need the reminders.

Part of the memorial:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Dachau_never_again.jpg/800px-Dachau_never_again.jpg

Agreed. I was there probably in 78 or 79, and would have been about 8 or 9. I'll never forget it, and that's as it should be.

Here's that sculpture:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mRC2ZPp9sCQ/STKU90S6pgI/AAAAAAAAACc/ab68vfMtVE4/S692/dachau+memorial.jpg

tooge
05-29-2012, 12:01 PM
what is just as sad is that we sit here knowing genocide is going on in Africa and don't do shit about it. But yeah, the Holocost was horrible regardless.

MTG#10
05-29-2012, 12:08 PM
One thing I can't understand........even with evidence from pictures, videos, survivors, soldiers, and other eye witnesses, there are still people that deny the Holocaust ever happened.
I dont think many people deny that it happened at all, I think a lot of people believe the numbers have been fabricated to make it sound far worse than it actually was.

Direckshun
05-29-2012, 12:09 PM
I dont think many people deny that it happened at all, I think a lot of people believe the numbers have been fabricated to make it sound far worse than it actually was.

NAZI!

LETS GET HIM

Saulbadguy
05-29-2012, 12:10 PM
I dont think many people deny that it happened at all, I think a lot of people believe the numbers have been fabricated to make it sound far worse than it actually was.


The Germans actually kept very detailed records.

ChiTown
05-29-2012, 12:11 PM
I dont think many people deny that it happened at all, I think a lot of people believe the numbers have been fabricated to make it sound far worse than it actually was.

:spock: - I just.........what?

stevieray
05-29-2012, 12:17 PM
I read somewhere that when word got to the German Command that the Allies were closing in on Berlin, instead of taking measures to protect the city, they sped up the killing machine...in order to kill as many Jews as they could before they were stopped.

Demonic.

stevieray
05-29-2012, 12:18 PM
I dont think many people deny that it happened at all, I think a lot of people believe the numbers have been fabricated to make it sound far worse than it actually was.

ya, because genocide has a magic number before it is determined as such.

:shake:

Donger
05-29-2012, 12:19 PM
I dont think many people deny that it happened at all, I think a lot of people believe the numbers have been fabricated to make it sound far worse than it actually was.

Sure.

Palestinians.

Iranian leadership.

Those people.

MTG#10
05-29-2012, 12:27 PM
Jesus Christ. I didnt say I believed that, Ive heard that argument before though many times...

DJ's left nut
05-29-2012, 12:38 PM
With your avatar and support for terrorist groups seeking the extermination of Jews, you are either ignorant of history, or trolling the Holocaust.

It does make you wonder...

NAZI!

LETS GET HIM

Oh. Well I think we've answered that question...

Stick to football, Direckshun. Once you stray outside of it, you pretty much become a complete tool, and a generally ill-informed one at that.

Direckshun
05-29-2012, 12:53 PM
Stick to football, Direckshun. Once you stray outside of it, you pretty much become a complete tool, and a generally ill-informed one at that.

I haven't posted anything informative in this thread at all, actually.

Pretty much just a visceral reaction that jumpstarted the thread in the OP.

I'm not sure how that violates your delicate sensibilities. I wasn't the one bringing politics into it, and honestly I've ignored it as others have done so.

SNR
05-29-2012, 12:59 PM
I've only been to one of the concentration camps. It was Mauthausen, one of the nastier labor camps and the only camp system inside Austria. I know the Nazis wanted to keep the dirty stuff like concentration camps away from the living space of the pure Germans (Austrians were considered just as pure as natural Germans). In this case, though, the camp was built outside a famous rock quarry that provided a large portion of granite to pave streets in Vienna. What the quarry turned into was a camp intended to kill its prisoners by overexhausting them through forced labor. They showed us the 180-some stairs that inmates had to climb, carrying large chunks of granite on each trip for 12 hours per day.

It's not called a "death camp" like Auschwitz since it didn't receive any prisoners from other camps with the intention of exterminating them as soon as they got off the train. But shit... ALL of these fucking horror sites should be called death camps. This one especially. If you were deemed too sick or weak after months of malnutrition and heavy labor, there were supposedly 60 different ways you could be executed- and death by firing squad is probably the nicest one of the bunch.

The other thing about it is for most of its active time, it served strictly as a camp for enemies of the Reich. So it was a prisoner of war camp, but also a camp for dissidents, people with "bad" politics, and "un-German" religious views. Also, anybody who refused to take the oath of allegiance to Hitler, or anybody who refused any kind of military service. So you had German, Austrian, and Czech socialists, communists, anarchists, homosexuals, gypsies, and people like Jehovah's Witnesses whose religion prevented them from any worship of the state. But later it turned purely into a camp for anybody who pissed off the Reich, which included a large number of intelligentsia from Poland, and these people could be as harmless as simple artists or university professors. And finally after 1942, the majority of inmates were Soviet prisoners-of-war. It wasn't until 1945 when the final solution was in its last stages that Jews were shipped to the camp, and that's just because places like Auschwitz were exterminating Jews as fast as they could, and didn't have room for all of the Jews.

The truly shocking thing was that a lot Austrian locals told me that Mauthausen was very tame in terms of total deaths and the treatment of prisoners compared to some of the more infamous concentration camps. However, when I visited, the tour guide said that is an unfortunate myth that many residents of Linz and other nearby cities choose to believe. They're far from Holocaust deniers, but they're far from accepting the true nature of what it was. They've subconsciously repressed the idea that something so horrific was in their own backyard, so they accept a balance of repression and acceptance, and choose to downplay that particular camp's atrocities. "Well, it was a concentration camp, yes, but at least it wasn't Buechenwald or Dachau!" As if that legitimately makes them feel better. And it's not even a true statement. Mauthausen was notoriously cruel and torturous for the prisoners.

I'm not saying that mindset is common. It is one harbored by the older generation. However, I also expect that if denying the Holocaust wasn't a crime in Germany and Austria, and if Holocaust education wasn't such a fundamental tenet of each student's upbringing, that kind of behavior would be far more prevalent. Far, far, more prevalent. And that's not a German thing. That's a human thing. We're all capable of reacting that same way, regardless of how smart or self-aware you are.

Donger
05-29-2012, 01:00 PM
I haven't posted anything informative in this thread at all, actually.

Pretty much just a visceral reaction that jumpstarted the thread in the OP.

I'm not sure how that violates your delicate sensibilities. I wasn't the one bringing politics into it, and honestly I've ignored it as others have done so.

That seems like an odd thing to state. With your avatar, you potentially bring the politics of the ME into every thread you enter.

SNR
05-29-2012, 01:06 PM
Interestingly ironic thread considering your avatar and supporting of terrorists who openly support the killing of Jews.

Do you know the role al-Husseini had in aligning with Hitler and exterminating hundreds of thousands?

Do you understand the role al-Husseini has had in shaping the current views in palestine?

With your avatar and support for terrorist groups seeking the extermination of Jews, you are either ignorant of history, or trolling the Holocaust.
:facepalm:

Saulbadguy
05-29-2012, 01:08 PM
That seems like an odd thing to state. With your avatar, you potentially bring the politics of the ME into every thread you enter.

With your avatar, it would seem you are pro-genocide and pro-mass murder.

Donger
05-29-2012, 01:12 PM
With your avatar, it would seem you are pro-genocide and pro-mass murder.

Only to those who don't know much about him, I suppose.

Direckshun
05-29-2012, 01:14 PM
I've only been to one of the concentration camps. It was Mauthausen, one of the nastier labor camps and the only camp system inside Austria. I know the Nazis wanted to keep the dirty stuff like concentration camps away from the living space of the pure Germans (Austrians were considered just as pure as natural Germans). In this case, though, the camp was built outside a famous rock quarry that provided a large portion of granite to pave streets in Vienna. What the quarry turned into was a camp intended to kill its prisoners by overexhausting them through forced labor. They showed us the 180-some stairs that inmates had to climb, carrying large chunks of granite on each trip for 12 hours per day.

It's not called a "death camp" like Auschwitz since it didn't receive any prisoners from other camps with the intention of exterminating them as soon as they got off the train. But shit... ALL of these ****ing horror sites should be called death camps. This one especially. If you were deemed too sick or weak after months of malnutrition and heavy labor, there were supposedly 60 different ways you could be executed- and death by firing squad is probably the nicest one of the bunch.

The other thing about it is for most of its active time, it served strictly as a camp for enemies of the Reich. So it was a prisoner of war camp, but also a camp for dissidents, people with "bad" politics, and "un-German" religious views. Also, anybody who refused to take the oath of allegiance to Hitler, or anybody who refused any kind of military service. So you had German, Austrian, and Czech socialists, communists, anarchists, homosexuals, gypsies, and people like Jehovah's Witnesses whose religion prevented them from any worship of the state. But later it turned purely into a camp for anybody who pissed off the Reich, which included a large number of intelligentsia from Poland, and these people could be as harmless as simple artists or university professors. And finally after 1942, the majority of inmates were Soviet prisoners-of-war. It wasn't until 1945 when the final solution was in its last stages that Jews were shipped to the camp, and that's just because places like Auschwitz were exterminating Jews as fast as they could, and didn't have room for all of the Jews.

The truly shocking thing was that a lot Austrian locals told me that Mauthausen was very tame in terms of total deaths and the treatment of prisoners compared to some of the more infamous concentration camps. However, when I visited, the tour guide said that is an unfortunate myth that many residents of Linz and other nearby cities choose to believe. They're far from Holocaust deniers, but they're far from accepting the true nature of what it was. They've subconsciously repressed the idea that something so horrific was in their own backyard, so they accept a balance of repression and acceptance, and choose to downplay that particular camp's atrocities. "Well, it was a concentration camp, yes, but at least it wasn't Buechenwald or Dachau!" As if that legitimately makes them feel better. And it's not even a true statement. Mauthausen was notoriously cruel and torturous for the prisoners.

I'm not saying that mindset is common. It is one harbored by the older generation. However, I also expect that if denying the Holocaust wasn't a crime in Germany and Austria, and if Holocaust education wasn't such a fundamental tenet of each student's upbringing, that kind of behavior would be far more prevalent. Far, far, more prevalent. And that's not a German thing. That's a human thing. We're all capable of reacting that same way, regardless of how smart or self-aware you are.

Great post. Seriously.

ForeverChiefs58
05-29-2012, 01:20 PM
:facepalm:

He has stated he supports groups like Hamas, Fatah, Muslim Brotherhood. They are all sworn to Israel's Distruckshun.

Hamas has gone on TV to say it is easier to have the Jews all in Israel to kill vs. tracking them down all over the world to kill.


Here is more info on the Nazi ME ties:

http://www.nyjtimes.com/cover/03-08-05/nazirootsofpalestiniannationalism.htm

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html

SNR
05-29-2012, 01:25 PM
He has stated he supports groups like Hamas, Fatah, Muslim Brotherhood. They are all sworn to Israel's Distruckshun.

Hamas has gone on TV to say it is easier to have the Jews all in Israel to kill vs. tracking them down all over the world to kill.


Here is more info on the Nazi ME ties:

http://www.nyjtimes.com/cover/03-08-05/nazirootsofpalestiniannationalism.htm

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.htmlThose are terrorist cells who attack and kill innocent civilians because they perceive injustice being done to them by the state of Israel. There are numerous accounts of similar violence throughout human history that popular culture tends to romanticize and make honorable.

The Holocaust is not the same thing. It's far fucking worse. Far, far, far, fucking worse.

DeezNutz
05-29-2012, 01:35 PM
Great post. Seriously.

I agree. Wonder who wrote that for SNR? If he could let me know, I'll rep that individual.

Direckshun
05-29-2012, 01:40 PM
I agree. Wonder who wrote that for SNR? If he could let me know, I'll rep that individual.

SNR's like that classic example of a million monkeys at typewriters.

SNR
05-29-2012, 01:43 PM
SNR's like that classic example of a million monkeys at typewriters.
IT IS YOU WHO EATS THE WHALE DUNG, BUSTER

ForeverChiefs58
05-29-2012, 01:46 PM
Those are terrorist cells who attack and kill innocent civilians because they perceive injustice being done to them by the state of Israel. There are numerous accounts of similar violence throughout human history that popular culture tends to romanticize and make honorable.

The Holocaust is not the same thing. It's far fucking worse. Far, far, far, fucking worse.

I brought it up because of the ties.
Read the first link I provided. It is long, but shows you some of the ties and origins to many of the groups in the ME and their relations to Hitler.

big nasty kcnut
05-29-2012, 02:20 PM
Let not blame the Germans the first world war were started by Austria-Hungary and second time the Germans were too angry after they lost and broke that Hitler seized the chance to grab power and run his sick twisted views of the world.

Amnorix
05-29-2012, 02:24 PM
Let not blame the Germans the first world war were started by Austria-Hungary and second time the Germans were too angry after they lost and broke that Hitler seized the chance to grab power and run his sick twisted views of the world.


As to the WWI, you are correct.

As to WWII, all that can really be said in defense of the Germans in general is that there never was a majority of them that voted in favor of Hitler, when voting was required. You can't just point to Hitler and say "that guy -- him! It's ALL him".

It was, unfortunately, far more than just him.

But you can't hold these things against all Germans forever. It's a stain on their nation, just as our treatment of African-Americans for centuries is a stain on our nation, and the Rape of Nanking is a stain upon Japan. Every nation has skeletons in their closet....some are just bigger and more recent than others.

Donger
05-29-2012, 02:51 PM
As to the WWI, you are correct.

Well, not really. Germany most certainly has some blame for starting WWI. They pretty much okay'ed Austria-Hungary to start open conflict with Serbia, if memory serves.

BigRedChief
05-29-2012, 05:25 PM
I haven't posted anything informative in this thread at all, actually.

Pretty much just a visceral reaction that jumpstarted the thread in the OP.

I'm not sure how that violates your delicate sensibilities. I wasn't the one bringing politics into it, and honestly I've ignored it as others have done so.I lived in Israel for a year and a half. While I was on Kibbutz I particpated in filming the Holocause survivors tell their stories for prosperity. It was a project for the Holocause museum in Jerusalem.

They found that if it wasn't someone they knew, someone who had no connection to the holocaust or some professional journalist that they would open up more. I had a set of questions to ask. Most answered truthfully and without emotion. Just the facts, I was experminted on, I had to pick which child to save, lost my whole family etc. etc. Very rarely did they break down. Strongest and bravest people I ever met.

MTG#10
05-29-2012, 05:31 PM
Just the facts, I was experminted on, I had to pick which child to save, lost my whole family etc. etc. Very rarely did they break down. Strongest and bravest people I ever met.

Holy shit :(

BigRedChief
05-29-2012, 05:45 PM
Holy shit :(I think it happened a lot. One was going to the oven, one was to be slave labor. Parent had to decide or both went to the ovens.

Donger
05-29-2012, 05:45 PM
I lived in Israel for a year and a half. While I was on Kibbutz I particpated in filming the Holocause survivors tell their stories for prosperity.

Dirty Jews are always trying to make a buck.

seamonster
05-29-2012, 06:02 PM
Pretty insane how the germans have jumped through seventy years of hoops to spend money and apologize while the japanese have basically told the world to get f'ed and that they're only sorry their bad assesness wound up vaguely killing 9 million people. Their actions have been highly suspect. And there's still a right wing japanese shinto contingent that believes they're the master race and the people they murdered weren't necessarily human if they were chinese. I'd go as far as saying the japanese were worse than the germans and still have nazi-like morons inundating their government and society.

MTG#10
05-29-2012, 06:04 PM
I think it happened a lot. One was going to the oven, one was to be slave labor. Parent had to decide or both went to the ovens.
Goddamn could you imagine...looking at your kids and having to point at one to die, knowing that kid is going to feel betrayed and unloved up until his death. I cant think of a more horrid thing to put a parent through.

crispystl420
05-29-2012, 06:35 PM
Goddamn could you imagine...looking at your kids and having to point at one to die, knowing that kid is going to feel betrayed and unloved up until his death. I cant think of a more horrid thing to put a parent through.

I only have one child,but I can't imagine a higher level of mental anguish.

BigRedChief
05-29-2012, 07:09 PM
Goddamn could you imagine...looking at your kids and having to point at one to die, knowing that kid is going to feel betrayed and unloved up until his death. I cant think of a more horrid thing to put a parent through.The guards knew the pain they were causing. They would taunt the parents about their decison all the time. Many parents committed suicide later out of guilt.

WV
05-29-2012, 07:20 PM
The Holocaust Museum is an absolute must. If you haven't been, you really need to take a day to go through it.

SNR
05-29-2012, 07:36 PM
Pretty insane how the germans have jumped through seventy years of hoops to spend money and apologize while the japanese have basically told the world to get f'ed and that they're only sorry their bad assesness wound up vaguely killing 9 million people. Their actions have been highly suspect. And there's still a right wing japanese shinto contingent that believes they're the master race and the people they murdered weren't necessarily human if they were chinese. I'd go as far as saying the japanese were worse than the germans and still have nazi-like morons inundating their government and society.I don't see how anybody could think one race is more human than another.

I mean, come on. All Asians look alike. If the Chinese are sub-human, what does that make you?

MTG#10
05-29-2012, 08:02 PM
I don't see how anybody could think one race is more human than another.

I mean, come on. All Asians look alike. If the Chinese are sub-human, what does that make you?

http://anongallery.org/img/8/7/thats-racist.gif

Ebolapox
05-29-2012, 08:04 PM
Pretty insane how the germans have jumped through seventy years of hoops to spend money and apologize while the japanese have basically told the world to get f'ed and that they're only sorry their bad assesness wound up vaguely killing 9 million people. Their actions have been highly suspect. And there's still a right wing japanese shinto contingent that believes they're the master race and the people they murdered weren't necessarily human if they were chinese. I'd go as far as saying the japanese were worse than the germans and still have nazi-like morons inundating their government and society.

yep. to those who don't know, look up the actions of the japanese in China during WWII. pretty damned bad.

Der Flöprer
05-29-2012, 08:18 PM
It's the last train to Auschwitz and I'll meet you at the station, you don't need no luggage it's your final destination a whoa whoa whoa!

Dylan
05-29-2012, 08:20 PM
...meanwhile, Israel is surrounded by countries that speak openly of wiping them off the map, yet people criticize them for not giving an inch.
Black for Palestine, indeed.

Thank you! ;)

-King-
05-29-2012, 08:29 PM
Are there any stories from the perspective of the guards at the camps? Cause, God damn, you have to have the blackest of hearts to do what they did. It's hard enough to look at pictures of jews during the holocaust, to see that every day in real life and to keep on punishing them isn't something rational people do.

I just can't fathom the mindset of people during that time, whether it be the guards, the jews, the higher ups in charge of it all, etc. I can't pretend to imagine what went through their minds on a daily basis.

BigRedChief
05-29-2012, 08:40 PM
Are there any stories from the perspective of the guards at the camps? Cause, God damn, you have to have the blackest of hearts to do what they did. It's hard enough to look at pictures of jews during the holocaust, to see that every day in real life and to keep on punishing them isn't something rational people do.

I just can't fathom the mindset of people during that time, whether it be the guards, the jews, the higher ups in charge of it all, etc. I can't pretend to imagine what went through their minds on a daily basis.They didnt see the Jews as fellow human beings. They saw them as the cause of all their countries misery. They have it coming.

Donger
05-29-2012, 08:44 PM
Are there any stories from the perspective of the guards at the camps? Cause, God damn, you have to have the blackest of hearts to do what they did. It's hard enough to look at pictures of jews during the holocaust, to see that every day in real life and to keep on punishing them isn't something rational people do.

I just can't fathom the mindset of people during that time, whether it be the guards, the jews, the higher ups in charge of it all, etc. I can't pretend to imagine what went through their minds on a daily basis.

If you really want to get the willies, look up Sonderkommandos.

Direckshun
05-29-2012, 09:01 PM
I lived in Israel for a year and a half. While I was on Kibbutz I particpated in filming the Holocause survivors tell their stories for prosperity. It was a project for the Holocause museum in Jerusalem.

They found that if it wasn't someone they knew, someone who had no connection to the holocaust or some professional journalist that they would open up more. I had a set of questions to ask. Most answered truthfully and without emotion. Just the facts, I was experminted on, I had to pick which child to save, lost my whole family etc. etc. Very rarely did they break down. Strongest and bravest people I ever met.

Crazy.

Would you really consider it strength? Honest question.

I was watching WWII in HD, and they have the Holocaust segment of course, and it just seems that all the victims are totally emotionless because they had their capacity to experience emotions drained out of them.

Was that something you witnessed?

What an amazing story, man. Share as much as you want, I will read every word.

Dylan
05-29-2012, 09:21 PM
As someone who is on top of international relations, may I suggest you read about Israel's elite Talpiot defense forces and their expertise in secret weapons and high-tech contributions to our Armed Forces operations.

EDIT: Connections between U.S. military and Israel's Talpiot are rarely if ever, discussed in the media. For the United States the problem lies with our Middle Eastern allies.

Quick Google:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/how-israels-defense-industry-can-help-save-america/

Two-Twenty
05-29-2012, 09:48 PM
Interesting thread. Anyone here think reparations were justified?

From wiki

The Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany (German: Luxemburger Abkommen, Hebrew: הסכם השילומים Heskem HaShillumim) was signed on September 10, 1952,[1] and entered in force on March 27, 1953.[2] According to the Agreement, West Germany was to pay Israel for the slave labor and persecution of Jews during the Holocaust, and to compensate for Jewish property that was stolen by the Nazis.

Oxford
05-29-2012, 09:50 PM
Yeah, it's horrible, and we owe it to the victims to keep reminding ourselves of that. The worst thing we can do is allow the Holocaust to be forgotten. So...it's painful. It's traumatic. It makes you feel uncomfortable, even horrified. So be it. Never forget.

Men of Good Will need to stand against evil, appeasers allowed Hitler to take root in Germany (although the seeds of WWII were sown in the Armistice in WWI). So right now we have the same appeasers cautioning us on Iran/Syria and selling out Israel. We never learn from history