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Direckshun
05-29-2012, 09:58 PM
This oughtta be good.

We've already done this once with RBs (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=259967). The general consensus is that the Chiefs have a top 5 RB corps.

I'm thinking of making it a series as my interest and time allows.

Do not consider anything other than the QB talent specific to 2012. But be sure to consider contract situations and/or injuries when evaluating.

Patriots: Brady, Hoyer, Mallett
Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard

Steelers: Roethlisberger, Leftwich, Troy Smith, Batch
Ravens: Flacco, Painter, Tyrod Taylor
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Bengals: Dalton, Gradkowski

Texans: Schaub, Yates, Beck
Colts: Luck, Stanton
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne

Chargers: Rivers, Whitehurst
Broncos: Manning, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Chiefs: Cassel, Quinn, Stanzi

Cowboys: Romo, Orton
Eagles: Vick, Kafka, Foles
Giants: Manning, Carr
Redskins: Griffin, Grossman, Cousins

Packers: Rodgers, Harrell
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
Bears: Cutler, Campbell, McCown
Lions: Stafford, Shaun Hill, Kellen Moore

Falcons: Ryan, Chris Redman
Panthers: Newton, Derek Anderson, Clausen
Buccaneers: Freeman, Orlovsky
Saints: Brees, Daniel

Rams: Bradford, Clemens
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Seahawks: Flynn, Jackson, Russell Wilson
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

Direckshun
05-29-2012, 09:59 PM
Now, of course, the exercise here seems to be: which team would you rather have the Chiefs QB corps over?

Hmmm....

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:00 PM
#32, especially if Quinn is the #2

If Stanzi actually shows some potential we could get into the high 20s.

Direckshun
05-29-2012, 10:01 PM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.

Mr_Tomahawk
05-29-2012, 10:01 PM
Jets
Jags
Cards

Yuck.

Gadzooks
05-29-2012, 10:05 PM
27th.
Better than Cardinals, Dolphins, Browns, Jaguars and Vikings.

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:05 PM
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
Buccaneers: Freeman, Orlovsky
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Seahawks: Flynn, Jackson, Russell Wilson
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

Here are the teams we are closest to in regards to QB situation.

I'd argue Kolb, Jackson, Smith and Freeman are better than Cassel. Guys like Kaepernick, Wilson, Ponder and McCoy are better prospects than anything we have on the roster.

We're probably not worse than the Browns or Jaguars. It's debatable. Bottom 3 or 4 is a lock, though.

One big pile of shit.

We're closest to the Jaguars. Cassel and Henne are very similar. Gabbert is shitty, but has some potential. About as much as a 5th round pick like Stanzi at this point, anyway. Don't give a fuck about Quinn.

BigMeatballDave
05-29-2012, 10:06 PM
33rd

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:07 PM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.

Absolute idiocy.

Sanchez and Tebow have both won playoff games.

Fitzpatrick is easily better than Cassel, Thigpen is a push.

Titans blow our starters and backups away, WTF are you smoking.

Carson Palmer is way better than Cassel, so you lose that, too.

Alex Smith's performance last year, especially in the playoffs, elevates him over Cassel, so we lose that.

Take off the rose colored glasses. Shit, I'd rather have Terrelle Pryor over Brady Quinn. I can't believe anyone thinks we have a better QB situation than Oakland.

Gadzooks
05-29-2012, 10:08 PM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.

You guys would be better off with Thigpen over Cassel. I'm serious.

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:10 PM
You guys would be better off with Thigpen over Cassel. I'm serious.

I'd agree with this, and I hate Thigpen.

He's basically a shorter, more athletic version of Cassel.

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:11 PM
The Hasselbeck/Locker thing is just mind boggling to me, DShun.

Would you trade Hasselbeck for Cassel? Fuck yes.

Would you trade Locker for Stanzi? Fuck yes.

Forget Brady Quinn. He doesn't even enter into any of these equations.

Gadzooks
05-29-2012, 10:12 PM
I'd agree with this, and I hate Thigpen.

He's basically a shorter, more athletic version of Cassel.

That, plus he's got a pair of testicles.

BigMeatballDave
05-29-2012, 10:13 PM
If it means Cassel is no longer a Chief, I'd take ANY OTHER group in the league.

BigMeatballDave
05-29-2012, 10:16 PM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.Are you High?

RippedmyFlesh
05-29-2012, 10:16 PM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.

We would win more games with list below

Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
With Palmer or Smith this team is a SB contender.

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:16 PM
You basically have to eliminate the Chiefs from any discussion against teams who have a better starter. That's 70-80 percent of the weight.

You really gonna try to tell me we're better off with Cassel over Carson Palmer, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Moore or Alex Smith?

At BEST a couple of those are a push. Then you look at the backups, where we have nothing (not up for debate), so we lose.

Baconeater
05-29-2012, 10:18 PM
Suck. That's how I'd rank them.

Demonpenz
05-29-2012, 10:19 PM
I think we are last. I have never seen a NFL qb need to crow hop to throw a 15 yard pass.

Gadzooks
05-29-2012, 10:19 PM
Interesting question... Which backups are better than Cassel?

Molitoth
05-29-2012, 10:23 PM
I would take the chiefs over:::

Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Ravens: Flacco, Painter, Tyrod Taylor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb

BigMeatballDave
05-29-2012, 10:24 PM
Interesting question... Which backups are better than Cassel?

Good question.

Probably most of them.

BigMeatballDave
05-29-2012, 10:24 PM
I would take the chiefs over:::

Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Ravens: Flacco, Painter, Tyrod Taylor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb

LMAO

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:25 PM
Interesting question... Which backups are better than Cassel?

If we're talking better AND/OR more long-term potential/actual hope

Mallett (potential/hope)
Sanchez
Thigpen
Moore
McCoy (potential/hope)
Locker (potential/hope)
Orton
Rosenfels
Campbell (push)
Derek Anderson (push)
Kaepernick (potential/hope)
Jackson (push)

notorious
05-29-2012, 10:32 PM
The Thigpen talk is cracking me up. LMAO

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:33 PM
The Thigpen talk is cracking me up. LMAO

Yeah, it's pretty fucking sad, I was convinced beyond a SHADOW of a doubt Thigpen was inferior in 2008.

They're basically the same guy. Thiggy is a sawed-off Casshole.

Gadzooks
05-29-2012, 10:39 PM
If we're talking better AND/OR more long-term potential/actual hope

Mallett
Sanchez
Thigpen
Moore
McCoy
Locker
Orton
Rosenfels,
Campbell (push)
Derek Anderson (push)
Kaepernick
Jackson

LMAO at Sanchez.
I'd go with Mallett and Locker for potential.
As for the veterans, Id take Thigpen, Orton, Jackson and Campbell over Cassel because they've exhibited greater leadership qualities and have a similar, if not superior level of talent.

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:48 PM
Sanchez is better than Cassel simply by virtue of two facts:

1. Multiple playoff wins and playoff appearances where didn't cover the field in shit.

2. Actually has room to grow.

Also, he had a "bad year" last season and still threw 26 TD. When Cassel has a bad year he throws 16 TD.

Three7s
05-29-2012, 10:50 PM
LMAO
I'd be shocked if you don't think Palko is better than Cassel.

BigMeatballDave
05-29-2012, 10:53 PM
I'd be shocked if you don't think Palko is better than Cassel.

What difference does it make? They both suck.

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 10:54 PM
What difference does it make? They both suck.

You can make the playoffs with Cassel.

You can make blackouts with Palko.

Gadzooks
05-29-2012, 10:56 PM
Sanchez is better than Cassel simply by virtue of two facts:

1. Multiple playoff wins and playoff appearances where didn't cover the field in shit.

2. Actually has room to grow.

Also, he had a "bad year" last season and still threw 26 TD. When Cassel has a bad year he throws 16 TD.

But our lord and savior, Jesus Christ, hasn't anointed Timmy Tebow as the starter yet.

BigMeatballDave
05-29-2012, 10:56 PM
You can make the playoffs with Cassel.

You can make blackouts with Palko.You can also look like a complete clusterfuck with Cassel in a play off game.

aturnis
05-29-2012, 11:10 PM
This oughtta be good.

We've already done this once with RBs (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=259967). The general consensus is that the Chiefs have a top 5 RB corps.

I'm thinking of making it a series as my interest and time allows.

Do not consider anything other than the QB talent specific to 2012. But be sure to consider contract situations and/or injuries when evaluating.

Patriots: Brady, Hoyer, Mallett
Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard

Steelers: Roethlisberger, Leftwich, Troy Smith, Batch
Ravens: Flacco, Painter, Tyrod Taylor
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Bengals: Dalton, Gradkowski

Texans: Schaub, Yates, Beck
Colts: Luck, Stanton
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne

Chargers: Rivers, Whitehurst
Broncos: Manning, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Chiefs: Cassel, Quinn, Stanzi

Cowboys: Romo, Orton
Eagles: Vick, Kafka, Foles
Giants: Manning, Carr
Redskins: Griffin, Grossman, Cousins

Packers: Rodgers, Harrell
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
Bears: Cutler, Campbell, McCown
Lions: Stafford, Shaun Hill, Kellen Moore

Falcons: Ryan, Chris Redman
Panthers: Newton, Derek Anderson, Clausen
Buccaneers: Freeman, Orlovsky
Saints: Brees, Daniel

Rams: Bradford, Clemens
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Seahawks: Flynn, Jackson, Russell Wilson
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

You meant Cassel, Stanzi, Quinn right?

tk13
05-29-2012, 11:16 PM
I'm no Cassel supporter but there's no way, shape, form or universe in which I'd rather have Thigpen than Cassel. 55% passing is a great day for Thigpen. He's basically a stronger armed version of Palko. But people generally have no memory of how things really were beyond a year or two.

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 11:20 PM
I'm no Cassel supporter but there's no way, shape, form or universe in which I'd rather have Thigpen than Cassel.

It's a push. Given another season of development, Thigpen could have turned out to be a bottom third QB like Cassel.

tk13
05-29-2012, 11:30 PM
No way on earth. And that's not an endorsement of Cassel, but that's like saying Palko could be Rich Gannon if you gave him a few years. Same difference. Cassel hadn't played QB since high school and he still could at least manage a game. Thigpen's record as a starter is 1-11. He's certainly better at running around and making a crazy play or two a game though.

SDChiefs
05-29-2012, 11:37 PM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.

What youre smoking..... i would like some.

Count Zarth
05-29-2012, 11:40 PM
No way on earth. And that's not an endorsement of Cassel, but that's like saying Palko could be Rich Gannon if you gave him a few years. Same difference. Cassel hadn't played QB since high school and he still could at least manage a game. Thigpen's record as a starter is 1-11. He's certainly better at running around and making a crazy play or two a game though.

He threw for 220 yards a game when he was here.

That's better than Cassel.

ThaVirus
05-29-2012, 11:41 PM
Without even looking at the list we've got to be bottom 3. Only teams I can think of off the top of my head that could be in worst shape are maybe the Jaguars and the Browns. Maybe.

Easy 6
05-29-2012, 11:47 PM
Matt Leinart > Brady Quinn

:facepalm:

BossChief
05-29-2012, 11:49 PM
Without Stanzi we are a bottom 4 team at the position.

Seahawks
Cardinals
49ers

...

Thigpen 2008 11 games
6.2 ypa
22tds (counting 3 rushing tds, 18 passing tds and one receiving in only 11 games)
12int
54.8
272 ypg (passing, receiving and rushing)

Cassel 2011 9 games
10 tds (total)
9 ints
6.4 ypa
59.5
201 ypg (rushing and passing)


I'll take Thigpen of those two.

DeezNutz
05-29-2012, 11:54 PM
No way on earth. And that's not an endorsement of Cassel, but that's like saying Palko could be Rich Gannon if you gave him a few years. Same difference. Cassel hadn't played QB since high school and he still could at least manage a game. Thigpen's record as a starter is 1-11. He's certainly better at running around and making a crazy play or two a game though.

Thigpen in a gimmicky offense was essentially Cassel. Perhaps a notch below. Definitely within earshot. Now, when the former tried to work out of a pro-set (ATL), it was arguably worse than Palko.

BossChief
05-30-2012, 12:00 AM
Thigpen in a gimmicky offense was essentially Cassel. Perhaps a notch below. Definitely within earshot. Now, when the former tried to work out of a pro-set (ATL), it was arguably worse than Palko.

That was the kids first NFL start and he didn't do too bad that second half, everything considered.

I'd take Thigpen, a second rounder and 63 million dollars for Thigpen to be the qb over Cassel in a heartbeat.

mcaj22
05-30-2012, 12:19 AM
id actually take Matt Moore over Castle to be honest

this will be proven true when Mark Castle shits himself in Dabolls offense compared to the numbers Moore put up in it last season.

BossChief
05-30-2012, 12:25 AM
I don't think Matt Moore is all that bad.

He played alright for Carolina and Miami.

rico
05-30-2012, 01:47 AM
I don't think Matt Moore is all that bad.

He played alright for Carolina and Miami.

I don't understand the lack of respect for Moore either.

Saccopoo
05-30-2012, 02:28 AM
Are you High?

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/smoke.gif

Rausch
05-30-2012, 02:41 AM
I think I'd only take Casshole over about 4 starting QB's.

The depth behind him though I like a lot...

Ace Gunner
05-30-2012, 06:07 AM
miami & cleveland = tied for worst

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 06:37 AM
id actually take Matt Moore over Castle to be honest



anyday

Marcellus
05-30-2012, 07:20 AM
You basically have to eliminate the Chiefs from any discussion against teams who have a better starter. That's 70-80 percent of the weight.

So how did we go 7-9 last year even with Palko starting 3 games?

the Talking Can
05-30-2012, 07:36 AM
we don't have a QB on the roster worth anything...i mean that literally...you couldn't give away our QBs

thanks, Scott

Molitoth
05-30-2012, 07:44 AM
LMAO

Wut? :p

I think Tannehill is going to be a giant bundle of fail.
Ponder hasn't shown sh*t, and I don't think he will.
I know what Flacco is, and it's not an Elite QB.

Marcellus
05-30-2012, 07:48 AM
Wut? :p

I think Tannehill is going to be a giant bundle of fail.
Ponder hasn't shown sh*t, and I don't think he will.
I know what Flacco is, and it's not an Elite QB.

Clay will be along shortly to tell you how many playoff games Flacco has won, but he will leave out the fact he had about a 10 QBR in most of them.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 07:49 AM
So how did we go 7-9 last year even with Palko starting 3 games?

Because Orton won two, and because Palko won one on a bullshit hail mary, and because Cassel backed into a win against the Chargers due to a miracle.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 07:50 AM
I know what Flacco is, and it's not an Elite QB.

Who gives a shit?

He was one drop away from the SB last year.

Cassel is one light year away from the SB.

Molitoth
05-30-2012, 07:54 AM
Who gives a shit?

He was one drop away from the SB last year.

Cassel is one light year away from the SB.

I agree that Flacco is better than Cassel man, but I'd rather see what Stanzi has and draft a QB next year than trade QB corps with the Ravens and be stuck with a mediocre Flacco for multiple seasons.

Mile High Mania
05-30-2012, 08:00 AM
There are two groups here...

Not sure they're that much better than KC's QBs, but I'd take my chance with them.
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Seahawks: Flynn, Jackson, Russell Wilson

Gotta give the nod to KC over these guys
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

Molitoth
05-30-2012, 08:02 AM
I dunno why, but I have a feeling Weeden is going to be this years Dalton. (it's not the red hair)

I'd take Weeden over Cassel at this point.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:06 AM
Kevin Kolb averaged 7.7 yards per pass last season.

I'll take a chance on him over wasting time with Cassel.

Garrard and Moore are also better than anything we have.

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:12 AM
Without Stanzi we are a bottom 4 team at the position.

Seahawks
Cardinals
49ers

...

Thigpen 2008 11 games
6.2 ypa
22tds (counting 3 rushing tds, 18 passing tds and one receiving in only 11 games)
12int
54.8
272 ypg (passing, receiving and rushing)

Cassel 2011 9 games
10 tds (total)
9 ints
6.4 ypa
59.5
201 ypg (rushing and passing)


I'll take Thigpen of those two.


The ABC crowd has gone insane. Thigpen is not better than Cassel. This would be a fine way to compare the two if that is all we had of Cassel. Trouble is he's starter three more seasons than what you've got here. When came in for Miami he was Palkoesque.

I don't like Cassel, but the ABC has reached moronic proportions. Cassel is one of the bottom 5 starters i the league, but he's not worse than Thigpen, or Palko. Sanchez isn't better than Cassel, neither is Moore or even Smith, I'd say they're about the same. Cassel is extremely frustrating. He'll have really good days against a bad team, but there are QBs that have bad days against bad teams, like Thigpen.

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:13 AM
He threw for 220 yards a game when he was here.

That's better than Cassel.

Cassel threw for 400 yards in a game here.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:14 AM
Cassel threw for 400 yards in a game here.

I was referring to Thigpen's average.

Cassel averages like 190.

RUSH
05-30-2012, 08:17 AM
Jags are probably the only one I'd take the Chiefs over. At least they are trying with Gabbert but I just don't see him amounting to anything. He's too scared of the rush and didn't show any flashes last year. And Henne sucks as well.

Other relatively close ones for me are the Seahawks, Cards, Bills and the Browns. But I'd take all 4 over KC.

Flynn showed more than Cassel in two games than Cassel has shown his entire career. He actually showed up and made plays against playoff teams. Beating one and falling just short to the other. He was a big reason why they were in those games too. Can't say that for Cassel. He just blends in and folds against good teams.

Kolb and Skelton are better than Cassel.

And Weeden has more talent and potential than Cassel. Considering that they are around the same age, I'd take my chances with him.

Bills were the closest for me. Could go either way on that. I don't believe in Fitz at all.

Can't even factor in Quinn cause he's been awful his entire career and Stanzi is still an unknown. It's depressing after writing this post, our qb situation is a complete joke.

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:18 AM
Man, I hate defending Cassel, I want him gone, I hope Stanzi can take the job, but some here have let Cassel hate infect their brain. There are a lot of crappy QBs in the NFL. Cassel is somewhere in the low 20s 27-28th. It's not good enough, but people are trying to say QBs in the 30s and 40s are better. No they're not.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 08:20 AM
Cassel is extremely frustrating. He'll have really good days against a bad team, but there are QBs that have bad days against bad teams, like Thigpen.

yes he is.
With Cassel:
if the games close it's over, unless you count the game vs the Chargers last year when divine intervention helped him out.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 08:24 AM
The ABC crowd has gone insane.
I don't like Cassel, but the ABC has reached moronic proportions.

Yep. They've gone off the deep end.

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:25 AM
I was referring to Thigpen's average.

Cassel averages like 190.

Sorry we don't have enough to go on with Thigpen. He started 11 games here, Cassel started 39. In the three seasons Cassel has started 10 or more games he has, 230, 194, and 207 ypg. It's not good but the point is Thigpen is not a better QB.

Just found Thigpen's YPG with the Chiefs. It was 186.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:27 AM
I Skelton really better than Cassel? I hadn't considered that.

MagicHef
05-30-2012, 08:27 AM
I think I might take KC's QBs over the Jag's.

Maybe. It's pretty close.

L.A. Chieffan
05-30-2012, 08:30 AM
Top ten for sure, maybe a little higher.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:31 AM
Just found Thigpen's YPG with the Chiefs. It was 186.

In the games he started in 2008 it was 213.

Matt Cassel, for his Chiefs career, averages 198 yards per start. Less if you factor in the playoff game.

Thigpen and Cassel are a push. I'd give the nod to Thigpen just because he hasn't totally proven to be a complete waste of time.

Chiefnj2
05-30-2012, 08:32 AM
Does it matter if KC is bottom 3, bottom 5 or bottom 10?

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 08:32 AM
if i had the option, i'd take Fitzpatrick, Matt Moore or Hasselbeck over Cassel as a starter.

L.A. Chieffan
05-30-2012, 08:36 AM
Haha, Thigpen is garbage. Put the pipe down

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:37 AM
In the games he started in 2008 it was 213.

Matt Cassel, for his Chiefs career, averages 198 yards per start. Less if you factor in the playoff game.

Thigpen and Cassel are a push. I'd give the nod to Thigpen just because he hasn't totally proven to be a complete waste of time.

They are not. Thigpen is barely a back up in the NFL. If you only criteria for "better than Cassel" is they haven't proven they're worse, then yes about 25 starters and most back ups and third stringers and rookies that haven't taken a snap are better, but then that's amazingly stupid.

L.A. Chieffan
05-30-2012, 08:37 AM
if i had the option, i'd take Fitzpatrick, Matt Moore or Hasselbeck over Cassel as a starter.

Hasselbeck is like ninety and those other guys are chumps. You guys are hilarious

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:39 AM
Thigpen is barely a back up in the NFL

And yet he produced at a level that rivals Cassel.

And that was without much of a running game, playing with a horrible Chiefs defense.

You put Cassel on that 08 Chiefs team, the results are similar.

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:39 AM
if i had the option, i'd take Fitzpatrick, Matt Moore or Hasselbeck over Cassel as a starter.

It's a push with all three.

BossChief
05-30-2012, 08:42 AM
Flacco has more regular season wins than any other qb since he's been the starter.

He also has more playoff wins than any other qb during that stretch.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 08:42 AM
It's a push with all three.

maybe but i just dont think they could be worse and Hasselbeck has made it to the Super Bowl in the past.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:43 AM
The difference between Thigpen and Cassel:

1. Cassel got to play for one of the greatest coaches ever and with one of the greatest offenses ever. This inflated his numbers, which were still only above average.

2. He then "earned" a giant contract because Pioli sucks.

3. That giant contract earned him undeserved chances in Kansas City despite the fact he blows.

Thigpen was discarded easily by Pioli when he arrived here. Then he goes to Miami, who have no obligation to give him a shot. Same situation in Buffalo.

If some idiot had thought Thigpen was worth 60 million dollars, he could probably throw for 70 yards in a playoff game after throwing for 3,000 yards during the regular season.

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:45 AM
And yet he produced at a level that rivals Cassel.

And that was without much of a running game, playing with a horrible Chiefs defense.

You put Cassel on that 08 Chiefs team, the results are similar.

He hasn't produced at a level that rivals Cassel. You can't take 11 starts and compare it to 3 or 4 plus seasons of starts, or take just one of Cassels worst seasons and compare and say see, they're the same. I remember Thigpen he had like 2 good games. If Thigpen were on the Chiefs with Cassel he'd be the backup, and he should be, even to Cassel. If you want to argue Thigpen vs. Quinn, then you've got something.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 08:45 AM
Hasselbeck is like ninety and those other guys are chumps. You guys are hilarious


Hasselbeck might be 90's but he still kicks Cassels ass.

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:45 AM
maybe but i just dont think they could be worse and Hasselbeck has made it to the Super Bowl in the past.

So has Rex Grossman, but I don't want him either.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 08:47 AM
So has Rex Grossman, but I don't want him either.

not a Grossman fan either, i felt the same way about him coming outta college as i did with Cassel when Pioli traded for his ass.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:48 AM
He hasn't produced at a level that rivals Cassel. You can't take 11 starts and compare it to 3 or 4 plus seasons of starts, or take just one of Cassels worst seasons and compare and say see, they're the same.

Sure you can. How else should you compare the two?

Can you point to a difference between the two? They're both fairly inaccurate past 10 yards, both are fairly mobile, one's a little more mobile, one's a little taller. Both have passable arms but nothing great. Both have questionable mechanics/footwork. Both turn the ball over at the same rate.

It's a push.

The difference is the contract.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:49 AM
I remember Thigpen he had like 2 good games.

If you want to argue Thigpen vs. Quinn, then you've got something.

Do you even look up statistics?

Thigpen averaged 213 yards per start, threw 18 TDs and 12 INT.

Not only is that better than two of Matt Cassel's seasons in Kansas City, it blows away anything Brady Quinn has ever done.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 08:51 AM
I count 18 starting QBs, that I'd rather have over Cassel. That makes him middle of the pack, which is what those with some sanity have been saying all along, but some are so jaded that they aren't even thinking properly.

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:51 AM
The difference between Thigpen and Cassel:

1. Cassel got to play for one of the greatest coaches ever and with one of the greatest offenses ever. This inflated his numbers, which were still only above average.

2. He then "earned" a giant contract because Pioli sucks.

3. That giant contract earned him undeserved chances in Kansas City despite the fact he blows.

Thigpen was discarded easily by Pioli when he arrived here. Then he goes to Miami, who have no obligation to give him a shot. Same situation in Buffalo.

If some idiot had thought Thigpen was worth 60 million dollars, he could probably throw for 70 yards in a playoff game after throwing for 3,000 yards during the regular season.

You glossed over 2010. That season is the only reason he's still here. Sure it ended poorly, and we played a lot of bad teams, but it doesn't matter, that's the kind of season that gets you more chances.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:52 AM
I didn't gloss over 2010.

Given the #1 running game and an above average defense, I'm fairly positive Tyler Thigpen could throw for 200 yards a game. He already did that in a worse situation.

Messier
05-30-2012, 08:52 AM
Sure you can. How else should you compare the two?

Can you point to a difference between the two? They're both fairly inaccurate past 10 yards, both are fairly mobile, one's a little more mobile, one's a little taller. Both have passable arms but nothing great. Both have questionable mechanics/footwork. Both turn the ball over at the same rate.

It's a push.

The difference is the contract.

Cassel has won 10 games in a season twice.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:53 AM
Cassel has won 10 games in a season twice.

No, his teams have won 10 games in a season twice.

There is a big difference. An enormous difference.

Tyler Thigpen is good enough to ride on the coattails of the #1 running game and above average defense.

Derek Anderson did it too. Same fucking shit.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 08:54 AM
Thigpen is so great, he went back to the coach that really knows him and he ended up THIRD STRING.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 08:54 AM
No, his teams have won 10 games in a season twice.

There is a big difference. An enormous difference.



:thumb:

MagicHef
05-30-2012, 08:54 AM
You glossed over 2010. That season is the only reason he's still here. Sure it ended poorly, and we played a lot of bad teams, but it doesn't matter, that's the kind of season that gets you more chances.

Tebow wins a playoff game, gets replaced.

Cassel loses a playoff game, gets starting job indefinitely.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 08:56 AM
I count 18 starting QBs, that I'd rather have over Cassel. That makes him middle of the pack, which is what those with some sanity have been saying all along, but some are so jaded that they aren't even thinking properly.



guess my thinking is jaded because i cringe when Cassel has to throw the ball.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:57 AM
Thigpen is so great, he went back to the coach that really knows him and he ended up THIRD STRING.

That's what happens when you're Matt Cassel without a $60 million contract.

Nobody believes in Thiggy. He never got to ride Randy Moss/Bill Belichick to 10 wins.

He got to ride Herm Edwards. So no money for you, Thiggy.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 08:57 AM
Tebow wins a playoff game, gets replaced.

Cassel loses a playoff game, gets starting job indefinitely.

Some front office executives get it.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 08:58 AM
guess my thinking is jaded because i cringe when Cassel has to throw the ball.

That's not what makes you jaded. Thinking any 'OL POS back-up QB can unseat him is your bias.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 09:00 AM
That's what happens when you're Matt Cassel without a $60 million contract.

Nobody believes in Thiggy. He never got to ride Randy Moss/Bill Belichick to 10 wins.

He got to ride Herm Edwards. So no money for you, Thiggy.

...and yet everything you just said, has ZERO to do with where he is on the depth chart for Buffalo. Gailey, knew him, brought himin for a draft pick, and thought so much of his play, he was relegated to third string.

Chiefnj2
05-30-2012, 09:00 AM
QB's I would start over Cassel (some are a push): Brady, Mallett, Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, Moore, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Weeden, Dalton, Schaub, Luck, Locker, Hasselbeck, Rivers, Manning x2, Griffin, Rodgers, Stafford, Ryan, Newton, Freeman, Brees, Flynn and Bradford.

BossChief
05-30-2012, 09:01 AM
Do you even look up statistics?

Thigpen averaged 213 yards per start, threw 18 TDs and 12 INT.

Not only is that better than two of Matt Cassel's seasons in Kansas City, it blows away anything Brady Quinn has ever done.

11 starts
2608 passing
378 rushing
37 receiving

That's more than 213 yards per start.

He also had 22 combined tds in those 11 games.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 09:02 AM
That's not what makes you jaded. Thinking any 'OL POS back-up QB can unseat him is your bias.

well, it's no secret that i think Castle sucks.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 09:02 AM
...and yet everything you just said, has ZERO to do with where he is on the depth chart for Buffalo. Gailey, knew him, brought himin for a draft pick, and thought so much of his play, he was relegated to third string.


That's not Thigpen's fault. Fitzpatrick is better. Cassel would be backing up guys like Fitzpatrick if he didn't get paid by fat GMs, too.

And FYI Thiggy was 2nd string before the Bills got VY. Good for them. It's better than signing BRADY FUCKING QUINN.

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:02 AM
No, his teams have won 10 games in a season twice.

There is a big difference. An enormous difference.

Tyler Thigpen is good enough to ride on the coattails of the #1 running game and above average defense.

Derek Anderson did it too. Same ****ing shit.

Hey you asked for a difference. I don't care if the team won 10 games, he's part of the team, he started those games he gets credit.

Yeah, Anderson is more like Cassel, I'll buy that. After that season he got a few more chances to prove he could do it again, and he couldn't, now he's a back up. That's a better comparison.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 09:04 AM
Guess what: Cassel has proven he can't do it since his bullshit season.

And he's going to keep on proving it.

Cassel is just Tyler Thigpen with 60 million dollars and a close personal relationship with his own personal savior GM.

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:05 AM
Tebow wins a playoff game, gets replaced.

Cassel loses a playoff game, gets starting job indefinitely.

For Manning. Tebow would still be the QB had Denver not signed Manning. The Chiefs were willing to do the same thing.

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:07 AM
Guess what: Cassel has proven he can't do it since his bullshit season.

And he's going to keep on proving it.

Cassel is just Tyler Thigpen with 60 million dollars and a close personal relationship with his own personal savior GM.

If Cassel repeats last season he won't be the QB in 2013.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 09:08 AM
If Cassel repeats last season he won't be the QB in 2013.

Agreed. Everyone's getting fucking fired, and we'll enjoy the new GM slashing Cassel's throat and watching the blood pour down the seats at Arrowhead. I'm hoping it gets bottled into BBQ sauce. That'll make a tasty brisket. Tastiest in years.

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:08 AM
Guess what: Cassel has proven he can't do it since his bullshit season.

And he's going to keep on proving it.

Cassel is just Tyler Thigpen with 60 million dollars and a close personal relationship with his own personal savior GM.

I don't know why you want to compare Cassel to Thigpen. Cassel is better than Thigpen.

Molitoth
05-30-2012, 09:10 AM
Elway wanted Tebow GONE and he was good enough to pull it off without upsetting that stupid fanbase.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 09:10 AM
I don't know why you want to compare Cassel to Thigpen. Cassel is better than Thigpen.

Based on absolutely no evidence.

Statistically, Thigpen is slightly better.

Watch them play, it's a push. Similar abilities and talent levels.

No evidence for Cassel being better other than "he got some wins because his teams carried him."

BossChief
05-30-2012, 09:11 AM
...and yet everything you just said, has ZERO to do with where he is on the depth chart for Buffalo. Gailey, knew him, brought himin for a draft pick, and thought so much of his play, he was relegated to third string.

3 years, 9 million.

MagicHef
05-30-2012, 09:22 AM
For Manning. Tebow would still be the QB had Denver not signed Manning. The Chiefs were willing to do the same thing.

They could have easily kept Tebow as a backup/QBOTF. Tebow was replaced by Oswiler more than he was replaced by Manning.

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:26 AM
Based on absolutely no evidence.

Statistically, Thigpen is slightly better.

Watch them play, it's a push. Similar abilities and talent levels.

No evidence for Cassel being better other than "he got some wins because his teams carried him."

But Thigpen has a much smaller sample size. You don't get to extrapolate, and say they're the same. If Thigpen ever gets another season lets see. I think Gailey changed the offense to suit Thigpen, it was gimmicky, and not sustainable. If you can't run a regular offense with your QB he shouldn't start. Ala Tebow.

I'll give Cassel credit for one win in 2010. The Rams game. I think HE won that game.

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:30 AM
They could have easily kept Tebow as a backup/QBOTF. Tebow was replaced by Oswiler more than he was replaced by Manning.

They let him go because they had to. It'd be a circus if he were still there, he was so popular that it would've been a major distraction to have him as the back up.

Had the Broncos not signed Manning do you think he'd still be gone? I don't, he'd be the starter.

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:39 AM
Let me put it this way. If Cassel were on the Bills, I think Fitzpatrick is the starter with Cassel the back up and Thingpen 3rd string.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 09:42 AM
But Thigpen has a much smaller sample size. You don't get to extrapolate, and say they're the same.

We know what his ability level is. We know he was in a bad situation. He still posted relatively decent numbers.

It's not a stretch to say he would continue to do that with better talent around him.

In any event, Cassel has never shown more ability than Thigpen. That's the important part.

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:48 AM
We know what his ability level is. We know he was in a bad situation. He still posted relatively decent numbers.

It's not a stretch to say he would continue to do that with better talent around him.

In any event, Cassel has never shown more ability than Thigpen. That's the important part.

And yet I get the feeling my last post is accurate as to how the NFL would see them. If both players were on the same team Cassel would be in front of Thigpen every time.

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:49 AM
Thigpen had to have a gimmick offense installed to play.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 09:51 AM
Thigpen had to have a gimmick offense installed to play.

Did you watch our offense last season?

Messier
05-30-2012, 09:55 AM
Did you watch our offense last season?

Yes. It was not good.

Coogs
05-30-2012, 09:57 AM
Right now we are pretty close to the bottom. Cassel is a backup QB who happens to be our starter. If Stanzi is not good enough to unseat Cassel, then we may be the absolute bottom of the heap.

However, if Stanzi becomes the starter... and Cassel or Quinn becomes the backup, QB could move up into the 20 range... give or take a couple.

Messier
05-30-2012, 10:16 AM
I think it's hard to rank the bottom 10 or so QB situations. There are several QBs that are all a lot alike and that are all inconsistent. Cassel is lumped there with those QBs, and those teams belong in the category of teams that should be looking to upgrade.

Sorter
05-30-2012, 10:58 AM
Teams I would not switch QBs with would be the Browns, Jaguars, Raiders, Jets, Cardinals, Vikings, and Dolphins. I'm pretty high on Stanzi though, so arguments could be made I suppose for the Jets (both QBs have playoff wins) and Dolphins (people like Tannehill, I don't).

As far as the teams I think have the best depth: NE, Seattle, Titans, Texans, and Lions. Hill is a great back up IMO.

Direckshun, I don't understand your thoughts on Tennessee. Yes, Hasselback played poorly the last half of the season. Locker looks like a stud though, and Hasselback is clearly better than Cassel.

vailpass
05-30-2012, 11:00 AM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.
:LOL:

vailpass
05-30-2012, 11:06 AM
They let him go because they had to. It'd be a circus if he were still there, he was so popular that it would've been a major distraction to have him as the back up.

Had the Broncos not signed Manning do you think he'd still be gone? I don't, he'd be the starter.

That and the fact that Tebow was not at all what Elway wanted in a QB be it starter or back up.
Elway wanted the entire Tebow show the hell out of town. And I'm glad. Don't need any of that bullshit spilling over on the new era. Time to get back to focusing on football. I'm very happy with how Elway handled the whole QB thing.

vailpass
05-30-2012, 11:06 AM
I count 18 starting QBs, that I'd rather have over Cassel. That makes him middle of the pack, which is what those with some sanity have been saying all along, but some are so jaded that they aren't even thinking properly.

Mind if I ask you who the starting QBs are that you would take Cassell over?

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 11:07 AM
Teams I would not switch QBs with would be the Browns, Jaguars, Raiders, Jets, Cardinals, Vikings, and Dolphins. I'm pretty high on Stanzi though, so arguments could be made I suppose for the Jets (both QBs have playoff wins) and Dolphins (people like Tannehill, I don't).

As far as the teams I think have the best depth: NE, Seattle, Titans, Texans, and Lions. Hill is a great back up IMO.

Direckshun, I don't understand your thoughts on Tennessee. Yes, Hasselback played poorly the last half of the season. Locker looks like a stud though, and Hasselback is clearly better than Cassel.
I'd gladly give Weeden, Gabbert, Palmer, Sanchez, Kolb, Ponder, or Tannehil a go over Cassel.

In a fucking heartbeat.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 11:09 AM
Right now we are pretty close to the bottom. Cassel is a backup QB who happens to be our starter. If Stanzi is not good enough to unseat Cassel, then we may be the absolute bottom of the heap.

However, if Stanzi becomes the starter... and Cassel or Quinn becomes the backup, QB could move up into the 20 range... give or take a couple.

Everyone seems to understand this, with the exception for one, Scott Fucking Pioli.

milkman
05-30-2012, 11:21 AM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.

I'd take the Bills, Dolphins, Titans, Vikings, 9ers and Cards situations over the Chiefs.

Fitzpatrick is easily every bit as good or better than Cassel, and Young is a dynamic backup with playmaking ability, who just wins games.

Matt Moore is as good as cassel, and Tannehill has real potential with the right coaching.
And Garrard is easily as good as Cassel, as well.

Hasselbeck is a proven vet, and Locker has shown flashes.

Ponder is a guy I liked a lot coming out, and Rosenfels is a solid backup vet.

Smith is better than Cassel, and Kaepernick is a 2nd year guy with upside.

Kolb is better than Cassel, and Skelton showed some things when he took over for Kolb last season due to injury.

That leaves the Jets, the Jags and the Raiders.

I'd call the Jets and Raiders a push.

So, in the end, the only situation I think is worse is the Jags, and that's somewhat biased because I really didn't like Gabbert coming out, and didn't seem him show anything last season.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 11:22 AM
Mind if I ask you who the starting QBs are that you would take Cassell over?

No, I don't mind at all.

vailpass
05-30-2012, 11:34 AM
No, I don't mind at all.

I'd dodge the question too if I'd made as ridiculous a claim as you did.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 11:36 AM
Mind if I ask you who the starting QBs are that you would take Cassell over?

All kidding aside...

Kevin Kolb
Blaine Gabbert
Matt Hasslebeck(he's been average at best the past four years)
Brandon Weeden
Matt Moore(career 32 TDs to 26 INTs)
Christian Ponder
Michael Vick
Josh Freeman
Mark Sanchez
Carson Palmer
Mark Tannehill
Alex Smith

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 11:37 AM
I'd dodge the question too if I'd made as ridiculous a claim as you did.

Wipe your chin. Looks like you've got a little egg on your face, Holmes.

vailpass
05-30-2012, 11:39 AM
All kidding aside...

Kevin Kolb
Blaine Gabbert
Matt Hasslebeck(he's been average at best the past four years)
Brandon Weeden
Matt Moore(career 32 TDs to 26 INTs)
Christian Ponder
Michael Vick
Josh Freeman
Mark Sanchez
Carson Palmer
Mark Tannehill
Alex Smith

Thanks for the reply. You seem to place a higher value on Cassell than most who have ever seen the game. What do you see in Cassell that places him above Vick? Smith? What would make you keep Cassell rather than build with Tannehill?

vailpass
05-30-2012, 11:40 AM
Wipe your chin. Looks like you've got a little egg on your face, Holmes.

?

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 11:46 AM
Thanks for the reply. You seem to place a higher value on Cassell than most who have ever seen the game. What do you see in Cassell that places him above Vick? Smith? What would make you keep Cassell rather than build with Tannehill?

For one, Smith has a very pedestrian career QB rating of 76.4. He did a nice job in the playoffs this past year, but before that he was awful.

Vick, isn't my idea of a franchise QB. I prefer a pocket passer. He's a decent QB, but throws alot of picks and has tailed off this past year.

Looks like the rest of the players you had no problem rating Cassel higher than?

saphojunkie
05-30-2012, 11:50 AM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.

I'm taking any team with a first round QB in his second year off that list. We know what Cassel is. Who knows about Weeden or Ponder or Tannehill?

I wanted Kaepernick last year, and frankly I am still optimistic he's going to be really, really good.

vailpass
05-30-2012, 11:54 AM
For one, Smith has a very pedestrian career QB rating of 76.4. He did a nice job in the playoffs this past year, but before that he was awful.

Vick, isn't my idea of a franchise QB. I prefer a pocket passer. He's a decent QB, but throws alot of picks and has tailed off this past year.

Looks like the rest of the players you had no problem rating Cassel higher than?

There isn't a single QB on that list I would rate lower than Cassell. I honestly see Matt Cassell as the worst QB in football and am baffled/thrilled that the KC leadership continues to put him on the field.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 11:56 AM
There isn't a single QB on that list I would rate lower than Cassell. I honestly see Matt Cassell as the worst QB in football and am baffled/thrilled that the KC leadership continues to put him on the field.

This^

Setsuna
05-30-2012, 11:58 AM
Yay Jags! Woo hoo! :banghead: :nosmilie:

Steron
05-30-2012, 11:59 AM
I would take Cassel over the likes of;

Gabbert
Hasselbeck
Palmer
Ponder
Bradford
Freeman
Smith
Kolb
Weeden

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 12:00 PM
I would take Cassel over the likes of;

Gabbert
Hasselbeck
Palmer
Ponder
Bradford
Freeman
Smith
Kolb
Weeden

Dumb

DJ's left nut
05-30-2012, 12:01 PM
I'd rather have the Chiefs' trio than:

Jets: Sanchez, Tebow
Bills: Fitzpatrick, Young, Thigpen
Dolphins: Tannehill, Moore, Garrard
Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Titans: Hasselbeck, Locker
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne
Raiders: Palmer, Leinart, Pryor
Vikings: Ponder, Rosenfels, Webb
49ers: Smith, Kaepernick
Cardinals: Kolb, Skelton

So that would, in my estimation, give us the 11th worst QB corps.

I've bolded the 3 that I'd take ours over.

I still think Sanchez is a winner and a solid QB that will only improve. He has more tools than Cassel as well. I'd rather have Quinn/Stanzi than Tebow, but starting QB counts for 80% of my calculus here and while Cassel starts, the Jets have the edge.

I think Fitz is a solid QB that got rattled by his new contract last season in Buffalo. He's a better QB than Cassel and Young is a guy that I still wish we'd have given a shot.

Dolphins is a walk; even if Tannehill busts, Moore's a better QB than Cassel and Garrard is actually quite competent when healthy.

Weeden should be decent, if he isn't, McCoy is just a younger version of Cassel; they have more upside with the same amount of downside, IMO. Though ultimately this is a close call because I think Stanzi could be as good as Weeden in a couple of years. Again, however, your starter is 80% of the value.

Hasselback and Locker is a great combo of solid veteran play with high upside youth. Love their pairing and would trade ours for it 100 times over.

Palmer's a legitimate starting QB. He's not what he was, but he's a guy that is capable of keeping defenses honest.

Smith is who we pray Cassel can be...but isn't. And I like Kaepernick a lot, he just needs some serious coaching.

_____________________

Jags is a close call as well - Gabbert has upside and Henne's better than Cassel right now. But in the end, Gabbert was just so miserable last season that he has to get that mark.

The Cardinals are behind us if for no other reason than the contract they gave Kolb.

I just don't trust Ponder in Minn; looks like a game manager on his best days and his backups are awful with no upside.

So there - by my calculus, we have the #29th worst situation in the league, though ultimately it could swing anywhere from 26th to 31st.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 12:01 PM
There isn't a single QB on that list I would rate lower than Cassell. I honestly see Matt Cassell as the worst QB in football and am baffled that the KC leadership continues to put him on the field.Yep

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 12:10 PM
There isn't a single QB on that list I would rate lower than Cassell. I honestly see Matt Cassell as the worst QB in football and am baffled/thrilled that the KC leadership continues to put him on the field.

You might not rate them lower, but the QB ratings sure do (for most of the players I mentioned)and I'll take that over somebody's opinion.

People have let their hatred for Cassel cloud their judgement. Your a Donkey fan, that's strike one for you in the judgement department.

vailpass
05-30-2012, 12:17 PM
You might not rate them lower, but the QB ratings sure do (for most of the players I mentioned)and I'll take that over somebody's opinion.

People have let their hatred for Cassel cloud their judgement. Your a Donkey fan, that's strike one for you in the judgement department.

I don't hate Cassell, I love him. Long live Cassell, may he wear the read and gold for many years to come.

He's keeping what might be a pretty good Chiefs team in the "nothing to worry about" department. What's not to like?

milkman
05-30-2012, 12:18 PM
You might not rate them lower, but the QB ratings sure do (for most of the players I mentioned)and I'll take that over somebody's opinion.

People have let their hatred for Cassel cloud their judgement. Your a Donkey fan, that's strike one for you in the judgement department.

Matt Cassel is a better QB than John Elway was.

I know this, because he has a higher career QB rating than John Elway's.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 12:25 PM
People have let their hatred for Cassel cloud their judgement.

My judgement is he fucking sucks and I want him gone.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 12:27 PM
Matt Cassel is a better QB than John Elway was.

I know this, because he has a higher career QB rating than John Elway's.

The QB Rating has merit, if you refuse to acknowlege that, no sweat on my sack. I could give two shits. I'm trying to keep it in perspective, while most of you bitch and moan like little women about a fucking QB, playing a fucking game.

You bring up an interesting point, but the basis of it is out of hatred for Cassel, not for actually trying to look at things as they are.

We have a DECENT QB. He's middle of the road, but he's hardly the shitstain so many have made him out to be. So rather, than actually discussing the topics realistically, this turns into me being a defender of Cassel-not because I actually like him, but because I prefer TRUTH.

So many around here have such broad strokes and generalizations it's a shame more football can't be discussed without all that petty crap.

Just my two cents.

Setsuna
05-30-2012, 12:28 PM
I've bolded the 3 that I'd take ours over.

I still think Sanchez is a winner and a solid QB that will only improve. He has more tools than Cassel as well. I'd rather have Quinn/Stanzi than Tebow, but starting QB counts for 80% of my calculus here and while Cassel starts, the Jets have the edge.

I think Fitz is a solid QB that got rattled by his new contract last season in Buffalo. He's a better QB than Cassel and Young is a guy that I still wish we'd have given a shot.

Dolphins is a walk; even if Tannehill busts, Moore's a better QB than Cassel and Garrard is actually quite competent when healthy.

Weeden should be decent, if he isn't, McCoy is just a younger version of Cassel; they have more upside with the same amount of downside, IMO. Though ultimately this is a close call because I think Stanzi could be as good as Weeden in a couple of years. Again, however, your starter is 80% of the value.

Hasselback and Locker is a great combo of solid veteran play with high upside youth. Love their pairing and would trade ours for it 100 times over.

Palmer's a legitimate starting QB. He's not what he was, but he's a guy that is capable of keeping defenses honest.

Smith is who we pray Cassel can be...but isn't. And I like Kaepernick a lot, he just needs some serious coaching.

_____________________

Jags is a close call as well - Gabbert has upside and Henne's better than Cassel right now. But in the end, Gabbert was just so miserable last season that he has to get that mark.

The Cardinals are behind us if for no other reason than the contract they gave Kolb.

I just don't trust Ponder in Minn; looks like a game manager on his best days and his backups are awful with no upside.

So there - by my calculus, we have the #29th worst situation in the league, though ultimately it could swing anywhere from 26th to 31st.
I appreciate the honesty.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 12:29 PM
The QB Rating has merit, if you refuse to acknowlege that, no sweat on my sack. I could give two shits. I'm trying to keep it in perspective, while most of you bitch and moan like little women about a fucking QB, playing a fucking game.

You bring up an interesting point, but the basis of it is out of hatred for Cassel, not for actually trying to look at things as they are.

We have a DECENT QB. He's middle of the road, but he's hardly the shitstain so many have made him out to be. So rather, than actually discussing the topics realistically, this turns into me being a defender of Cassel-not because I actually like him, but because I prefer TRUTH.

So many around here have such broad strokes and generalizations it's a shame more football can't be discussed without all that petty crap.

Just my two cents.Cassel IS a shitstain and you are a moron.

Messier
05-30-2012, 12:30 PM
Yep

No, it's stupid hyperbole. Cassel isn't the worst QB in the NFL. You want Caleb Hanie instead? If you mean starter, like I said there are 7 or so QBs that are lumped at the bottom, Cassel is one of them. I think his right spot is as a good back up.

If the Chiefs had cut Cassel this off season he would have signed either with one of the QB starved teams to challenge for a starting spot, or become a top back up. He wouldn't just sit there in FA with no takers. His value is around Kyle Ortons value.

qabbaan
05-30-2012, 12:31 PM
Roughly just as bad or worse than our QB situation:

Buffalo
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Jets
Minnesota
Tampa Bay
Arizona

Sorter
05-30-2012, 12:34 PM
Tampa is not as bad or worse.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 12:35 PM
No, it's stupid hyperbole. Cassel isn't the worst QB in the NFL. You want Caleb Hanie instead? If you mean starter, like I said there are 7 or so QBs that are lumped at the bottom, Cassel is one of them. I think his right spot is as a good back up.

If the Chiefs had cut Cassel this off season he would have signed either with one of the QB starved teams to challenge for a starting spot, or become a top back up. He wouldn't just sit there in FA with no takers. His value is around Kyle Ortons value.

Caleb Haney isnt a starting QB. Out of ALL of the starting QBs in the NFL, Cassel is the worst.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 12:36 PM
Cassel IS a shitstain and you are a moron.

I rest my case. You can't discuss football without some numbnut being a complete douche because of differing opinions.

Eat shit, Dave.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 12:39 PM
Matt Cassel is a better QB than John Elway was.

I know this, because he has a higher career QB rating than John Elway's.

and nevermind Elway's got two Super Bowl rings and Cassel has not a playoff win.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 12:42 PM
I rest my case. You can't discuss football without some numbnut being a complete douche because of differing opinions.

Eat shit, Dave.

I'm sorry you can't see Cassel is a lousy QB.

Doesn't take a genious to figure that out.

Sorter
05-30-2012, 12:44 PM
Caleb Haney isnt a starting QB. Out of ALL of the starting QBs in the NFL, Cassel is the worst.

He's better than Gabbert at the moment, along with Ponder. Arguably better than Kolb. I hate Matt Cassel, but if you think Gabbert last year was better than Matt, you're a fucking moron. Gabbert was horrible.

Bewbies
05-30-2012, 12:46 PM
Cassel is the worst starter in the NFL. How is this a debate? Do you folks watch the games?

Sorter
05-30-2012, 12:46 PM
As far as future/potential goes, yes, I would rather have Gabbert, Ponder, and maybe Kolb than Cassel. Not for 60/5yrs though. Cassel is definitely in the bottom 4 and tied IMO with Kolb for the #3 worst spot.

Messier
05-30-2012, 12:46 PM
Caleb Haney isnt a starting QB.

He just said worst in the NFL, but anyway, it's why I continued talking about starters. There are several interchangeable starters that, ideally, would be backups. I think you could and would get just as frustrated at Sanchez, Gabbert, Moore, Flynn, Kolb, and even Freeman, Fitzpatrick, Palmer, Ponder and Hasselbeck at times. You just don't see those QBs make their mistakes, and when you do, you don't care, and don't remember because you're not as invested. Cassel has moments of being good, but more of being below average like any number of QBs. I'd like him as a back up, not a starter.

Sorter
05-30-2012, 12:47 PM
Cassel is the worst starter in the NFL. How is this a debate? Do you folks watch the games?

Did you watch the abortion of games Gabbert produced last year?

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 12:47 PM
I'm sorry you can't see Cassel is a lousy QB.

Doesn't take a genious to figure that out.

If you would have read what I said, you would be crystal clear on my stance. This always turns out, that just because somebody doesn't see all doom and gloom, they must love Cassel...and once, again it's a false conclusion.

He's in the 20's or lower as starting QB's in the league, but that doesn't keep, most, including you, from throwing complete horse shit into the equation based on OPINION and saying such crap, like he's the worst QB in the league. He isn't, no matter how many want it to be so. The facts bare that out. FACTS, not opinion, FACTS.

See the difference?

Bewbies
05-30-2012, 12:47 PM
He's better than Gabbert at the moment, along with Ponder. Arguably better than Kolb. I hate Matt Cassel, but if you think Gabbert last year was better than Matt, you're a ****ing moron. Gabbert was horrible.

He was also a rookie on a horrible team. Matt Cassel would have looked worse in JAX than he looks here.

Bewbies
05-30-2012, 12:48 PM
If you would have read what I said, you would be crystal clear on my stance. This always turns out, that just because somebody doesn't see all doom and gloom, they must love Cassel...and once, again it's a false conclusion.

He's in the 20's or lower as starting QB's in the league, but that doesn't keep, most, including you, from throwing complete horse shit into the equation based on OPINION and saying such crap, like he's the worst QB in the league. He isn't, no matter how many want it to be so. The facts bare that out. FACTS, not opinion, FACTS.

See the difference?

Like Cassel 3:16?

SNR
05-30-2012, 12:49 PM
Why does anybody think Fitzpatrick is better than Cassel?

Fitzpatrick is a piece of shit. His release is almost as slow as Tebow's. Cassel is legitimately a far more accurate QB.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 12:49 PM
If you would have read what I said, you would be crystal clear on my stance. This always turns out, that just because somebody doesn't see all doom and gloom, they must love Cassel...and once, again it's a false conclusion.

He's in the 20's or lower as starting QB's in the league, but that doesn't keep, most, including you, from throwing complete horse shit into the equation based on OPINION and saying such crap, like he's the worst QB in the league. He isn't, no matter how many want it to be so. The facts bare that out. FACTS, not opinion, FACTS.

See the difference?He's the worst STARTING Qb.

Bewbies
05-30-2012, 12:50 PM
Did you watch the abortion of games Gabbert produced last year?

Yes, when I saw him he sucked.

He was a rookie with nobody to throw to. Cassel was horrible in his 3rd year here, 6th or 7th in the NFL throwing at Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston etc.

BigChiefFan
05-30-2012, 12:50 PM
He's the worst STARTING Qb.

In your OPINION, not in reality, where some of us live.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 12:51 PM
Why does anybody think Fitzpatrick is better than Cassel?

Fitzpatrick is a piece of shit. His release is almost as slow as Tebow's. Cassel is legitimately a far more accurate QB.

I'd have to give Fitz the edge.

SNR
05-30-2012, 12:54 PM
I'd have to give Fitz the edge.Why? What does he do that Cassel can't? Checkdown like a retard? Through a wild incompletion out of desperation when he still has a few seconds to set his feet and deliver a throw? Cassel can do those things, too.

Watch Fitz's mechanics. They are crap. Dog crap. Cassel has a legitimate edge over him in that department.

Sorter
05-30-2012, 12:56 PM
He was also a rookie on a horrible team. Matt Cassel would have looked worse in JAX than he looks here.

Possible. Definitely not disputing that Gabbert was on a poor team, but they had a healthy MJD and a top 10 defense throughout the year, playing an arguably weaker division than ours. He threw for under 100yds in 4 games, Cassel in only one. He also only completed 60% in 1 game.

Messier
05-30-2012, 12:56 PM
He was also a rookie on a horrible team. Matt Cassel would have looked worse in JAX than he looks here.

What are we basing a QBs merit on, stats or wins? Either way Cassel is right there with several QBs. If you just think he can't throw and all you can remember are the bad throws, thats selective. You can put together a lowlight reel to make Cassel look like the worst QB to ever play the game, or you can put a reel together that makes him look awesome. Yes, he has more bad plays than good, that's why he shouldn't start, like several QBs.

I feel I need to say this almost every post. I don't want Cassel to be our starter. I'd be happy with him as our back up.

vailpass
05-30-2012, 12:57 PM
Gabbert did look like hammered shit last year, had forgotten about him.

Sorter
05-30-2012, 12:59 PM
What are we basing a QBs merit on, stats or wins? Either way Cassel is right there with several QBs. If you just think he can't throw and all you can remember are the bad throws, thats selective. You can put together a lowlight reel to make Cassel look like the worst QB to ever play the game, or you can put a reel together that makes him look awesome. Yes, he has more bad plays than good, that's why he shouldn't start, like several QBs.

I feel I need to say this almost every post. I don't want Cassel to be our starter. I'd be happy with him as our back up.

Honestly, I think he could be a good mentor/teammate to Ricky as a backup. Minus teaching him how to make checks, line calls, audibles, throw deep passes well, how to execute a screen and read defenses.

Messier
05-30-2012, 01:00 PM
He's the worst STARTING Qb.

I don't think you can quantify that. He's not a top 20 starter. He's lumped in with 10 or so QBs that are better suited to be back ups.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 01:00 PM
In your OPINION, not in reality, where some of us live.

My opinion is more inline with the facts.

In a season where they played a very easy schedule, Matt Cassel averaged 207 yards per game with the #1 rushing attack.

Fuck him.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 01:01 PM
Why? What does he do that Cassel can't? Checkdown like a retard? Through a wild incompletion out of desperation when he still has a few seconds to set his feet and deliver a throw? Cassel can do those things, too.

Watch Fitz's mechanics. They are crap. Dog crap. Cassel has a legitimate edge over him in that department.

ABC

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 01:02 PM
Watch Fitz's mechanics. They are crap. Dog crap. Cassel has a legitimate edge over him in that department.Have you seen Rivers' Mechanics?

Sorter
05-30-2012, 01:02 PM
My opinion is more inline with the facts.

In a season where they played a very easy schedule, Matt Cassel averaged 207 yards per game with the #1 rushing attack.

**** him.

Still better than Gabbert playing against the Colts and Titans. Granted, Ponder played in a tough division, and Kolb had to play Seattle(good d) and 49ers (ungodly D). However, Cassel still looked better than both the majority of the season.

Sorter
05-30-2012, 01:03 PM
Have you seen Rivers' Mechanics?

LMAO yup. Him and Osweiler have the exact same throwing motion. Where the fuck do you learn to throw like that?

Messier
05-30-2012, 01:07 PM
My opinion is more inline with the facts.

In a season where they played a very easy schedule, Matt Cassel averaged 207 yards per game with the #1 rushing attack.

**** him.

Here are more facts. They won 10 games (even with an easy schedule) and Cassel threw 27 TDs and only 7 picks. Those are numbers that get you more chances, no matter who you're playing. Easy schedule or not you're still playing NFL teams, it's not like there were some D II A teams on the schedule. There are QBs that can't do that even against bad teams.

Again, wish Cassel was the backup.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 01:09 PM
Still better than Gabbert playing against the Colts and Titans. Granted, Ponder played in a tough division, and Kolb had to play Seattle(good d) and 49ers (ungodly D). However, Cassel still looked better than both the majority of the season.

I'd take Gabbert because he's 6 yrs younger. Ponder is still very young, too.

A ton of potential upside there.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 01:11 PM
Here are more facts. They won 10 games (even with an easy schedule) and Cassel threw 27 TDs and only 7 picks. Those are numbers that get you more chances, no matter who you're playing. Easy schedule or not you're still playing NFL teams, it's not like there were some D II A teams on the schedule. There are QBs that can't do that even against bad teams.

Again, wish Cassel was the backup.

Come on, man. 207 YPG is HORRIBLE when you're running the ball like JC was.

whoman69
05-30-2012, 01:13 PM
Going down the list I came up with these teams that are in a worse situation. Realistically the list should start and end with Cassel because that is all Pioli is interested in.

Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne

That's it. Third from the bottom. I thought of Fitz as well, but the Bills beat the snikey's out of the Chiefs last year and just barely beat them the year before when Matt was in the Pro Bowl *

Sorter
05-30-2012, 01:15 PM
I'd take Gabbert because he's 6 yrs younger. Ponder is still very young, too.

A ton of potential upside there.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take Gabbert, but he was not better than Matt last year. Matt's 1st year here is pretty similar to Gabberts last year, imo.

Ace Gunner
05-30-2012, 01:16 PM
Come on, man. 207 YPG is HORRIBLE when you're running the ball like JC was.



ya, dave. ppl don't understand any pollock could be a decent qb when JC is a ****ing terror to defenses. you could see the fear in DC's by about game 10 that year. the seattle game was a great example of a DC who refused to play the pass and got burned. cassel should have had several games like this, but he's so slow as a ball handler, he is damn near done by the time he sets his feet.

Messier
05-30-2012, 01:25 PM
In the year Chris Johnson ran for 2000 yards Vince Young started 9 games and threw for 156 ypg, kerry Collins started 6 and had 175 ypg. Don't know why you think having a top rushing attack means there should be more passing yards per game.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 01:25 PM
I'm not saying I wouldn't take Gabbert, but he was not better than Matt last year. Matt's 1st year here is pretty similar to Gabberts last year, imo.

I got off-track. I meant QBs that I would TAKE over Cassel.

There isn't ONE starting QB that I would not take over Cassel.

I've said this many times: We've seen what Matt can do. Its not working. Time to move on.

Sure, any other bottom feeding QB around the league may not be any better than Matt, but I just sick of him.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 01:27 PM
In the year Chris Johnson ran for 2000 yards Vince Young started 9 games and threw for 156 ypg, kerry Collins started 6 and had 175 ypg. Don't know why you think having a top rushing attack means there should be more passing yards per game.

LMAO Because Young and Collins suck.

Sorter
05-30-2012, 01:31 PM
I got off-track. I meant QBs that I would TAKE over Cassel.

There isn't ONE starting QB that I would not take over Cassel.

I've said this many times: We've seen what Matt can do. Its not working. Time to move on.

Sure, any other bottom feeding QB around the league may not be any better than Matt, but I just sick of him.

I think everyone is sick of him, minus Pioli. Hopefully Ricky turns into Tom 2.0 and does work this year. He already has the same hair and #.

Messier
05-30-2012, 01:32 PM
LMAO Because Young and Collins suck.

They're good back ups like Cassel could be.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 01:43 PM
They're good back ups like Cassel could be.

Well, there's that.

Bewbies
05-30-2012, 01:51 PM
What are we basing a QBs merit on, stats or wins? Either way Cassel is right there with several QBs. If you just think he can't throw and all you can remember are the bad throws, thats selective. You can put together a lowlight reel to make Cassel look like the worst QB to ever play the game, or you can put a reel together that makes him look awesome. Yes, he has more bad plays than good, that's why he shouldn't start, like several QBs.

I feel I need to say this almost every post. I don't want Cassel to be our starter. I'd be happy with him as our back up.

I base it on watching the game. Stats lie, as do wins. When I watch him play he sucks the dogs ass.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 02:02 PM
I base it on watching the game. Stats lie, as do wins. When I watch him play he sucks the dogs ass.

exactly what i tried to tell guys in the QBotF thread. :thumb:

Messier
05-30-2012, 02:41 PM
I base it on watching the game. Stats lie, as do wins. When I watch him play he sucks the dogs ass.

Eyes lie more than stats. Cassel has looked bad and good at times. I've watched all but a few QBs have games that would get the same reaction out of you.

He Sucks! I promise, if Fitzpatrick, or Moore, or Sanchez were our QB, you'd want them replaced too.

We want the same thing, to have a different QB. I just hate it when people think the grass is greener with these bottom of the pack QBs.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 02:45 PM
We want the same thing, to have a different QB. I just hate it when people think the grass is greener with these bottom of the pack QBs.

Cassel is the bottom, so either one is an upgrade to me.

Messier
05-30-2012, 02:55 PM
Cassel is the bottom, so either one is an upgrade to me.

They are all the bottom, those 7 or so QBs. Interchangeable mediocre QBs.

BillSelfsTrophycase
05-30-2012, 02:58 PM
Now, of course, the exercise here seems to be: which team would you rather have the Chiefs QB corps over?

Hmmm....

None of them

/LAChieffan

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 03:05 PM
They are all the bottom, those 7 or so QBs. Interchangeable mediocre QBs.

like i said, to me Cassel would be on the bottom of that shit list.

Messier
05-30-2012, 03:17 PM
like i said, to me Cassel would be on the bottom of that shit list.

Who cares. They're all borderline backups.

Here's a way I would put the list.

These are the teams that I think will replace or want to replace their starting QB if they have a bad season:

KC
Jets
Jax-Although, Gabbert might get another year just because of where he was taken.
Miami
TB-I think Freeman has to show something this year
AZ
SF
I'd say Seattle and Oakland, but Flynn is new, and Oakland gave up so much I think they'd stay put.
Buf
Clev, if it's Mccoy.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 03:33 PM
misread you post man, my bad.

milkman
05-30-2012, 04:10 PM
Why? What does he do that Cassel can't? Checkdown like a retard? Through a wild incompletion out of desperation when he still has a few seconds to set his feet and deliver a throw? Cassel can do those things, too.

Watch Fitz's mechanics. They are crap. Dog crap. Cassel has a legitimate edge over him in that department.

Fitzpatrick has some pocket awareness and the ability to make reads.

Rain Man
05-30-2012, 04:12 PM
Rules question: when you say "specific to 2012" in the opening post, does that mean we're looking only at the 2012 season and not taking into account things like age and potential, or are we supposed to look past the 2012 season as well?

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-30-2012, 04:23 PM
Fitzpatrick is shit, a different color turd, a bit less smelly, but we'd hate him here too.

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 04:28 PM
Fitzpatrick is shit, a different color turd, a bit less smelly, but we'd hate him here too.

He has been stuck with a pretty bad supporting cast in Buffalo.

I think he'd be a Trent Green level QB in KC.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 04:29 PM
Fitzpatrick has some pocket awareness and the ability to make reads.

Agreed

Pawnmower
05-30-2012, 04:30 PM
Well lets all go on record then...

If you truly think Ass-el is in bottom 7 (bottom 20-25%) in 2012, his stats should say so.

I personally think he will be in the top 33.3%

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 04:32 PM
another thing i noticed about Fitz last season, if he threw a couple pics early in a game he could put it behind him and finish the game strong.

lcarus
05-30-2012, 04:32 PM
I'd agree with this, and I hate Thigpen.

He's basically a shorter, more athletic version of Cassel.

He's a more athletic version of Cassel, and a less athletic version of Tebow.

He's basically what you would get if Tebow and Cassel had a love child.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 04:36 PM
Well lets all go on record then...

If you truly think Ass-el is in bottom 7 (bottom 20-25%) in 2012, his stats should say so.

I personally think he will be in the top 33.3%

:facepalm:

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-30-2012, 04:38 PM
He has been stuck with a pretty bad supporting cast in Buffalo.

I think he'd be a Trent Green level QB in KC.

Agree to disagree. I want him no where near KC and that contract was an abortion for Buffalo.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 04:40 PM
Well lets all go on record then...

If you truly think Ass-el is in bottom 7 (bottom 20-25%) in 2012, his stats should say so.

I personally think he will be in the top .3%
FYP

Coogs
05-30-2012, 04:47 PM
Well lets all go on record then...

If you truly think Ass-el is in bottom 7 (bottom 20-25%) in 2012, his stats should say so.

I personally think he will be in the top 33.3%


Stats can be misleading. Just like Orton's 1 TD/2 INT stat with the Chiefs. That one is every bit as misleading as Cassels 27/7 stat.

It is a given if we can run the ball 35 or so times a game for nearly a couple of hundred yards, Cassel is going to win some games. Name me a QB who isn't going to win given that situation.

However, if we can only run it 15 to 20 times a game and can't get the ground game going, we are fucked.

Cassel 3:16

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 05:21 PM
Well lets all go on record then...




if Romeo doesn't pull Cassel i'll say he finishes somewhere between 26th-30th best QB in the league.

Pawnmower
05-30-2012, 05:26 PM
if Romeo doesn't pull Cassel i'll say he finishes somewhere between 26th-30th best QB in the league.

I'll enjoy mocking you all season.

Pawnmower
05-30-2012, 05:28 PM
FYP

Do you realize the top .3% would mean he is the 1st or 2nd best QB in the league?

Or are your math skills about equal to your posting skills?

Coogs
05-30-2012, 05:35 PM
In fact, here is the 2010 season in review...

21-14 Win vs San Diego... 26 carries for 135.
16-14 Win vs Cleveland... 39 carries for 140.
31-10 Win vs San Fran... 39 carries for 207.
BYE
9-19 Loss vs Indianapolis... 27 carries for 113. One of the 3:16 games
35-38 Loss vs Texans... 38 carries for 228. (One of his 6 losses with more carries than passing attempts)
42-20 Win vs Jacksonville... 42 carries for 236.
13-10 Win vs Bills... 45 carries for 274.
20-23 Loss vs Raiders... 34 carries for 104. One of his 3:16 losses
29-49 Loss vs Denver... 22 carries for 51. One of his 3:16 losses. Posted big stats once team was down 35-0. (Misleading stat game. :shrug:)
31-13 Win vs Arizona... 29 carries for 159.
42-24 Win vs Seattle... 48 carries for 270.
10-6 Win vs Denver... 39 carries for 185.
0-31 Loss vs San Diego... Croyle's game
27-13 Win vs St. Louis... 42 carries for 210.
34-14 Win vs Tennessee... 40 carries for 152.
10-31 Loss vs Oakland... 29 carries for 115. A 3:16 game
7-30 Loss vs Ravens... 19 for 108. (One of his 6 losses with more carries than passing attempts)


EDIT: In the 10 wins... and average of 39 carries for 197 yards a game. Any QB in the league can win games with those numbers, not just Cassel.

Sorter
05-30-2012, 05:42 PM
I think Matt has a significantly worse season than
Brady
Stanzi
Rodgers
Brees
Manning
Manning
Rapeburger
Romo
Rivers
Vick
Flacco
Schaub
Locker
Cutler
Stafford
Ryan
Newton
Dalton

I think he has similar seasons to
Sanchez
Fitzpatrick
RG3
Luck
Bradford
Smith
Flynn
Freeman
Palmer
Moore
Hasselback

I think he outplays
Gabbert
Kolb/Skelton
Weeden
Ponder

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 05:43 PM
Do you realize the top .3% would mean he is the 1st or 2nd best QB in the league?

Or are your math skills about equal to your posting skills?

yeah i know what .3% is dumbass.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 05:44 PM
I'll enjoy mocking you all season.

we shall see.
i can mock as well yanno.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 05:54 PM
i think the top QB List might look something like this:

1 Brady
2 Rodgers
3 Brees
4 P Manning
5 Rothlisberger
6 E Manning
7 Rivers
8 Vick
9 Flacco
10 Schaub
11 Romo
12 Cutler
13 Stafford
14 Ryan
15 Newton
16 Dalton
17 Sanchez
18 Fitzpatrick
19 RG3
20 Luck
21 Bradford
22 Flynn
23 Freeman
24 Palmer
25 Moore
26 Cassel

Pawnmower
05-30-2012, 05:55 PM
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/scared/grand/jensen-ackles-scared-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-228.gif

Pawnmower
05-30-2012, 06:02 PM
we shall see.
i can mock as well yanno.

<a href='http://gifsforum.com/listofgifs/gallery/scared'><img src='http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/scared/grand/baby-scared-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-825.gif' alt='baby scared gif'></a>

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 06:05 PM
<a href='http://gifsforum.com/listofgifs/gallery/scared'><img src='http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/scared/grand/baby-scared-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-825.gif' alt='baby scared gif'></a>

Castle looks like he's been working out.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 06:06 PM
i think the top QB List might look something like this:

1 Brady
2 Rodgers
3 Brees
4 P Manning
5 Rothlisberger
6 E Manning
7 Rivers
8 Vick
9 Flacco
10 Schaub
11 Romo
12 Cutler
13 Stafford
14 Ryan
15 Newton
16 Dalton
17 Sanchez
18 Fitzpatrick
19 RG3
20 Luck
21 Bradford
22 Flynn
23 Freeman
24 Palmer
25 Moore
26 CasselPeyton is too high right now. We dont know what he's lost.

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 06:07 PM
Peyton is too high right now. We dont know what he's lost.

agreed
but even if he's lost some he's still gonna be better than two thirds of the QB's starting right now.

Marcellus
05-30-2012, 06:08 PM
He has been stuck with a pretty bad supporting cast in Buffalo.

I think he'd be a Trent Green level QB in KC.


Based off what? Whe he had a dominate running game he was pretty good, ala Cassel in 2010, no run game, suckage.

There is no difference in the 2.

Cephalic Trauma
05-30-2012, 06:16 PM
Well lets all go on record then...

If you truly think Ass-el is in bottom 7 (bottom 20-25%) in 2012, his stats should say so.

I personally think he will be in the top 33.3%

Top third? Are you mad?

He would have to be in the top eleven, and i guarantee you he isn't better than:

1 Brady
2 Rodgers
3 Brees
4 P Manning
5 Rothlisberger
6 E Manning
7 Rivers
8 Vick
9 Flacco
10 Schaub
11 Romo
12 Cutler
13 Stafford
14 Ryan
15 Newton
16 Dalton

Those are the guarantees. Not a ****ing chance.

Marcellus
05-30-2012, 06:22 PM
i think the top QB List might look something like this:

1 Brady
2 Rodgers
3 Brees
4 P Manning
5 Rothlisberger
6 E Manning
7 Rivers
8 Vick
9 Flacco
10 Schaub
11 Romo
12 Cutler
13 Stafford
14 Ryan
15 Newton
16 Dalton
17 Sanchez
18 Fitzpatrick
19 RG3
20 Luck
21 Bradford
22 Flynn
23 Freeman
24 Palmer
25 Moore
26 Cassel

From 17 down there is a ton of speculation and hope. Dalton could also have a major relapse like Matt Ryan who hasn't done much since his rookie year.

O.city
05-30-2012, 06:23 PM
IMO, Stafford is too high. He is a top 10 guy in the league.

Pawnmower
05-30-2012, 06:28 PM
Top third? Are you mad?

He would have to be in the top eleven, and i guarantee you he isn't better than:

1 Brady
2 Rodgers
3 Brees
4 P Manning
5 Rothlisberger
6 E Manning
7 Rivers
8 Vick
9 Flacco
10 Schaub
11 Romo
12 Cutler
13 Stafford
14 Ryan
15 Newton
16 Dalton

Those are the guarantees. Not a ****ing chance.

All that would have to happen is a few things for you to be wrong:

1)peyton could easily not have a good season
2)cassel's stats could easily be better than Dalton, Cutler, Flacco, Eli
3) there's other guys who could just have a bad season....

Its not impossible....

Count Zarth
05-30-2012, 06:36 PM
2)cassel's stats could easily be better than Dalton, Cutler, Flacco, Eli
.

Cassel's stats could be better than a guy who threw for 5,000 yards? ROFL

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 06:40 PM
2)cassel's stats could easily be better than Dalton, Cutler, Flacco, Eli
WOW LMAO

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 06:41 PM
IMO, Stafford is too high. He is a top 10 guy in the league.

You mean too low? :)

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 06:42 PM
WOW LMAO

NBC ROFL

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 06:51 PM
Cassel's stats could be better than a guy who threw for 5,000 yards? ROFL

at 3 yards a pop, Cassel and the offense would have to stay on Offense the entire season to reach that many passing yards.

Pawnmower
05-30-2012, 06:56 PM
We're probably not worse than the Browns or Jaguars. It's debatable. Bottom 3 or 4 is a lock, though.



Well, if Clayton says its a lock, we KNOW it isn't gonna turn out that way......


( Ghetto Tag so I can follow and mock the tards in this thread)

BoneKrusher
05-30-2012, 07:08 PM
Well, if Clayton says its a lock, we KNOW it isn't gonna turn out that way......


( Ghetto Tag so I can follow and mock the tards in this thread)

i'll be right here, not going anywhere.

Steron
05-30-2012, 07:09 PM
Dumb

And this is the caliber answer I have come to expect from CPers.

BigMeatballDave
05-30-2012, 07:11 PM
And this is the caliber answer I have come to expect from CPers.

Its what you get when you post something dumb.

Sorter
05-30-2012, 07:16 PM
From 17 down there is a ton of speculation and hope. Dalton could also have a major relapse like Matt Ryan who hasn't done much since his rookie year.

Yeah, all Ryan has done is earn a #1 seed and made it to the playoffs 3/4 years. Not to mention every team he has lost to has made it the Super Bowl.

Bewbies
05-30-2012, 07:16 PM
Cassel over Eli? Fuck you are retarded.

SNR
05-30-2012, 07:17 PM
Also, Direckshun: Hanie is the backup for the Donks. Not Henne.

Cephalic Trauma
05-30-2012, 07:22 PM
All that would have to happen is a few things for you to be wrong:

1)peyton could easily not have a good season
And he could just as easily have a great season. Can you honestly say you would take MC over Peyton? I hope not.
2)cassel's stats could easily be better than Dalton, Cutler, Flacco, Eli
The likelihood of Cassel being better than 2 of those QBs barring multiple freak injuries is slim to none
3) there's other guys who could just have a bad season....
Thatta way to be specific!

Its not impossible....

My responses are in bold. In summation, your post is one steaming pile of dooty.