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Chocolate Hog
05-31-2012, 04:07 PM
Today I saw something I thought was pretty shitty and shared it with facebook. I saw a visibly pregnant women smoking outside of Arby's with a Co-worker. I called this women a selfish POS and was told by someone how that's fucked up and I was being judgmental. Was I in the wrong?

Donger
05-31-2012, 04:08 PM
Today I saw something I thought was pretty shitty and shared it with facebook. I saw a visibly pregnant women smoking outside of Arby's with a Co-worker. I called this women a selfish POS and was told by someone how that's ****ed up and I was being judgmental. Was I in the wrong?

Yes, you are being judgmental by definition. You are also correct.

Stewie
05-31-2012, 04:09 PM
http://pics.myspew.com/var/resizes/geek/pregnant-woman-smoking-worried-about-noise.jpg?m=1315948052

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 04:11 PM
Today I saw something I thought was pretty shitty and shared it with facebook. I saw a visibly pregnant women smoking outside of Arby's with a Co-worker. I called this women a selfish POS and was told by someone how that's fucked up and I was being judgmental. Was I in the wrong?

Its stupid of her to smoke while pregnant, no doubt. Possibly a criminal act.

Stupid of you to comment on it.

Mind your own fucking business.

listopencil
05-31-2012, 04:11 PM
http://pics.myspew.com/var/resizes/geek/pregnant-woman-smoking-worried-about-noise.jpg?m=1315948052

That is sad.

Chocolate Hog
05-31-2012, 04:15 PM
Its stupid of her to smoke while pregnant, no doubt. Possibly a criminal act.

Stupid of you to comment on it.

Mind your own ****ing business.

She was doing it openly in public by me.

vailpass
05-31-2012, 04:18 PM
Its stupid of her to smoke while pregnant, no doubt. Possibly a criminal act.

Stupid of you to comment on it.

Mind your own ****ing business.

IMHO somebody has to speak for that unborn kid. Apparently it won't be the stupid hole carrying it.

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:21 PM
It's none of your business.

Pawnmower
05-31-2012, 04:21 PM
eYes it is judgmental....But that's why we are given large brains. We make judgments all the time. **** that bitch, I hope your comment shook her up.

Inmem58
05-31-2012, 04:23 PM
Mind your own fucking business? ROFL



You're right, everyone should keep quiet. Great mentality to have. I would have stopped and slapped that cig out of her hands. Stupid bitch.

Bump
05-31-2012, 04:24 PM
normally I'm the kind who minds my own business, but ya, you should not smoke while pregnant. It's just fucked up. Then I again, I used to be a bartender and this pregnant lady came in all the time and got tore up on long islands. I thought about not serving her and mentioned it to my boss, and my boss was like she's a customer and if she wants to drink, she's gonna drink and she may as well spend the money here.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 04:24 PM
Yes, it is quite judgmental to draw broad, over-arching conclusions about people based on one act. Humans are complex creatures, dude.

Facebook isn't really an appropriate forum for that kind of thing, either. If it comes up while having an intelligent discussion with someone, you can voice your opinion on something like that. However, to just proclaim to all of that internet that you saw a "selfish" person at Arby's today... well, what is even the point?

Donger
05-31-2012, 04:26 PM
It's none of your business.

Yeah, that kind of attitude has lead to some great things in our history:

http://www.ushmm.org/holocaust/image.jpg

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 04:27 PM
She was doing it openly in public by me.

Walk away.

It wasn't her intent to harm you.

scott free
05-31-2012, 04:28 PM
I'm not sure i would have said anything, probably wouldnt as you know its not going to change anything, but there have been times where i see pregnant women i know lighting up or drinking & it forever changes my opinion of them.

Chocolate Hog
05-31-2012, 04:28 PM
Walk away.

It wasn't her intent to harm you.

But it was harming another person?

vailpass
05-31-2012, 04:28 PM
Yes, it is quite judgmental to draw broad, over-arching conclusions about people based on one act. Humans are complex creatures, dude.

Facebook isn't really an appropriate forum for that kind of thing, either. If it comes up while having an intelligent discussion with someone, you can voice your opinion on something like that. However, to just proclaim to all of that internet that you saw a "selfish" person at Arby's today... well, what is even the point?

Seems like shit like this is the very reason Facebook exists?

Donger
05-31-2012, 04:29 PM
Walk away.

It wasn't her intent to harm you.

Interesting. What if you saw another woman (or man) beating the crap out of the kid? Same thing?

jspchief
05-31-2012, 04:29 PM
Yeah, that kind of attitude has lead to some great things in our history:

http://www.ushmm.org/holocaust/image.jpg

The one on the left is ugly. Yeah, I went there.

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 04:29 PM
IMHO somebody has to speak for that unborn kid. Apparently it won't be the stupid hole carrying it.

I Don't disagree, however, billay making a comment isnt going to make her quit.

Donger
05-31-2012, 04:30 PM
The one on the left is ugly. Yeah, I went there.

LMAO

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:30 PM
Yeah, that kind of attitude has lead to some great things in our history:

http://www.ushmm.org/holocaust/image.jpg

Thanks, dude.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/039/090/godwins-law1.png

Donger
05-31-2012, 04:31 PM
Thanks, dude.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/039/090/godwins-law1.png

Bitte schoen.

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 04:33 PM
Mind your own fucking business? ROFL



You're right, everyone should keep quiet. Great mentality to have. I would have stopped and slapped that cig out of her hands. Stupid bitch.

Its none of his business. That's right. There is no law that states pregnant women shouldnt smoke. Its incredibly stupid to do it, though.

Had billay done what you say, he'd have been arrested for assault.

Technically, she could file charges on him for calling her a piece of shit.

Chiefnj2
05-31-2012, 04:34 PM
I would have stopped and slapped that cig out of her hands. Stupid bitch.

Internet tough guy. No way you take a slap, even at the hand of, a pregnant woman.

Chiefnj2
05-31-2012, 04:35 PM
Technically, she could file charges on him for calling her a piece of shit.

What charge?

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 04:35 PM
But it was harming another person?

Doesn't matter. Its not your business.

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 04:36 PM
What charge?

Harassment.

Chocolate Hog
05-31-2012, 04:37 PM
Doesn't matter. Its not your business.

So if another person is being harmed just ignore it because it doesn't involve you?

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 04:39 PM
Interesting. What if you saw another woman (or man) beating the crap out of the kid? Same thing?Not quite the same.

Should billay have pulled the fetus out of her uterus to save it?

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:39 PM
So if another person is being harmed just ignore it because it doesn't involve you?

If you see a pregnant bitch eating something unhealthy, or doing something potentially dangerous, like jaywalking, do you feel likewise empowered to stick your snout into somebody else's business?

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 04:40 PM
So if another person is being harmed just ignore it because it doesn't involve you?

Splitting hairs?

Donger
05-31-2012, 04:40 PM
Not quite the same.

Should billay have pulled the fetus out of her uterus to save it?

No, I didn't claim it was the same. I was just seeing if the "it's not my business" has limits or not.

Chiefnj2
05-31-2012, 04:40 PM
Harassment.

It is certainly NOT harassment. Perhaps some bible thumping states might have obscenities listed as some type of disorderly offense, but it's arguable.

Chocolate Hog
05-31-2012, 04:42 PM
If you see a pregnant bitch eating something unhealthy, or doing something potentially dangerous, like jaywalking, do you feel likewise empowered to stick your snout into somebody else's business?

Those aren't the same as smoking.

vailpass
05-31-2012, 04:42 PM
If you see a pregnant bitch eating something unhealthy, or doing something potentially dangerous, like jaywalking, do you feel likewise empowered to stick your snout into somebody else's business?

You are against someone voicing concern to the expectant mother regarding the health of her unborn child but you are perfectly okay with that expectant mother aborting that unborn child for any reason whatsoever. Do I understand you correctly?

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:43 PM
Those aren't the same as smoking.

Sure they are.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 04:44 PM
Yes, it is quite judgmental to draw broad, over-arching conclusions about people based on one act. Humans are complex creatures, dude.

Facebook isn't really an appropriate forum for that kind of thing, either. If it comes up while having an intelligent discussion with someone, you can voice your opinion on something like that. However, to just proclaim to all of that internet that you saw a "selfish" person at Arby's today... well, what is even the point?

LMAO
Makes no ****ing sense. Smoking is a habitual act. It's not a broad, over-arching conclusion when it's likely she consistently smokes.

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:44 PM
You are against someone voicing concern to the expectant mother regarding the health of her unborn child but you are perfectly okay with that expectant mother aborting that unborn child for any reason whatsoever. Do I understand you correctly?

I've been told not to take anything you say seriously, so I guess you should just think whatever you want.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 04:45 PM
Seems like shit like this is the very reason Facebook exists?

I REALLY miss the good old days for Facebook... this kind of shit didn't happen when you had to have a college email address to sign up. Facebook was a bastion for youthful idiocy. It was fucking beautiful.

So, no, the reason Facebook existed in the first place was exactly the opposite.. shit's just gotten out of hand in the past 3 or 4 years.

vailpass
05-31-2012, 04:45 PM
I've been told not to take anything you say seriously, so I guess you should just think whatever you want.

I'm interested in your response, if you don't mind?

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 04:46 PM
Sure they are.

No, they aren't. The effects of smoking on an unborn child are well documented. An "unhealthy meal" has little to no bearing on the unborn child unless the mother is malnourished. And jaywalking? Seriously?

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:46 PM
I'm interested in your response, if you don't mind?

Why should I waste my time, since you're just here to stir the shit, in your own words?

vailpass
05-31-2012, 04:46 PM
I REALLY miss the good old days for Facebook... this kind of shit didn't happen when you had to have a college email address to sign up. Facebook was a bastion for youthful idiocy. It was ****ing beautiful.

So, no, the reason Facebook existed in the first place was exactly the opposite.. shit's just gotten out of hand in the past 3 or 4 years.

FB is so far from what it was in it's youth and will never be that again. Ever.
It's a publicly held for-profit mega-chatroom with ad space and data lists for sale. Nothing more.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 04:47 PM
LMAO
Makes no ****ing sense. Smoking is a habitual act. It's not a broad, over-arching conclusion when it's likely she consistently smokes.

Maybe you missed the "selfish piece of shit" part.

Now fuck the fuck off dumbfuck n00b

vailpass
05-31-2012, 04:47 PM
Why should I waste my time, since you're just here to stir the shit, in your own words?

I don't blame you for not wanting to respond. Even people like you know deep down when something is wrong.

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:48 PM
No, they aren't. The effects of smoking on an unborn child are well documented. An "unhealthy meal" has little to no bearing on the unborn child unless the mother is malnourished. And jaywalking? Seriously?

a woman who lives on twinkies and soda pop is doing more damage to her baby than one who smokes.

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:49 PM
I don't blame you for not wanting to respond. Even people like you know deep down when something is wrong.

I make no bones about supporting abortion any time for any reason. I just don't particularly care what you think about it.

Chocolate Hog
05-31-2012, 04:50 PM
a woman who lives on twinkies and soda pop is doing more damage to her baby than one who smokes.

That's not true smoking is the #1 cause in birth defects.

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 04:50 PM
It is certainly NOT harassment. Perhaps some bible thumping states might have obscenities listed as some type of disorderly offense, but it's arguable.

So, this woman was minding her own business and some guy she doesn't know tells her she's a piece of shit, is NOT harassment?

vailpass
05-31-2012, 04:51 PM
I make no bones about supporting abortion any time for any reason. I just don't particularly care what you think about it.

You are against someone voicing concern to the expectant mother regarding the health of her unborn child but you are perfectly okay with that expectant mother aborting that unborn child for any reason whatsoever. Do I understand you correctly?

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 04:52 PM
Maybe you missed the "selfish piece of shit" part.

Now **** the **** off dumb**** n00b

So a woman smoking, for her own pleasure at the expense of her unborn child, is not selfish? We must have different definitions of the word "selfish".

Btw, I always know I have made a good point when people spaz out over a harmless comment.

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:52 PM
You are against someone voicing concern to the expectant mother regarding the health of her unborn child but you are perfectly okay with that expectant mother aborting that unborn child for any reason whatsoever. Do I understand you correctly?

I've been told not to take anything you say seriously, so I guess you should just think whatever you want.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 04:55 PM
a woman who lives on twinkies and soda pop is doing more damage to her baby than one who smokes.

I would agree, but that's not what you said. You said seeing a woman eating something unhealthy (once, just like in this instance), not a woman living on twinkies and soda.

Brock
05-31-2012, 04:56 PM
I would agree, but that's not what you said. You said seeing a woman eating something unhealthy (once, just like in this instance), not a woman living on twinkies and soda.

You're assuming she's a habitual smoker, so why shouldn't you assume that this is all she eats?

Chocolate Hog
05-31-2012, 04:59 PM
You're assuming she's a habitual smoker, so why shouldn't you assume that this is all she eats?

That's a huge reach.

loochy
05-31-2012, 04:59 PM
I can't believe you said that. You should be banned from this thread.

Brock
05-31-2012, 05:00 PM
That's a huge reach.

No, it really isn't. When someone exhibits unhealthy behavior, it could be a habit or it could be a one time thing. Either way, it's none of your business.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 05:02 PM
So a woman smoking, for her own pleasure at the expense of her unborn child, is not selfish? We must have different definitions of the word "selfish".

Btw, I always know I have made a good point when people spaz out over a harmless comment.

She's a human being. He saw her have one cigarette in front of an Arby's. Assigning a broad label like "selfish piece of shit" to a person without even knowing them discounts that person's humanity/complexity.

Drawing such a simple conclusion is just a simple way of thinking.

loochy
05-31-2012, 05:05 PM
She's a human being. He saw her have one cigarette in front of an Arby's. Assigning a broad label like "selfish piece of shit" to a person without even knowing them discounts that person's humanity/complexity.

Drawing such a simple conclusion is just a simple way of thinking.

Humanity/complexity is irrelevant.

Drawing simple conclusions are futile.

Simple ways of thinking are irrelevant.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 05:05 PM
You're assuming she's a habitual smoker, so why shouldn't you assume that this is all she eats?

Smoking is a very simple behavioral construct, based solely on your addiction to the addictive substances contained within the cigarette. Eating is a much more complex behavioral construct with multiple variables. It is way too hard to make that determination about eating habits based on one single act.

By that logic, anybody who eats anything unhealthy at anytime would be labeled as an unhealthy eater, so pretty much everybody.

vailpass
05-31-2012, 05:06 PM
I've been told not to take anything you say seriously, so I guess you should just think whatever you want.

Accepted. I wouldn't admit to being a monster either.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 05:07 PM
LMAO
Makes no ****ing sense. Smoking is a habitual act. It's not a broad, over-arching conclusion when it's likely she consistently smokes.

Btw, "spatula" neg-repped me for this statement. He added the comment "you're brown water trash. die." Baby. Get a life man, and don't get so butt hurt over a little disagreement.

Brock
05-31-2012, 05:09 PM
Smoking in a very simple behavioral construct, based solely on your addiction to the addictive substances contained within the cigarette. Eating is a much more complex behavioral construct with multiple variables. It is way too hard to make that determination about eating habits based on one single act.

By that logic, anybody who eats anything unhealthy at anytime would be labeled as an unhealthy eater, so pretty much everybody.

Some people smoke because they like to smoke. Some people smoke once in a blue moon when something stressful happens. Some people eat crap food because it tastes good, or once in a blue moon when something stressful happens. Not everybody fits into these neat little boxes you're trying to put them in.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 05:19 PM
Humanity/complexity is irrelevant.

Drawing simple conclusions are futile.

Simple ways of thinking are irrelevant.

You have reached the highest plane of human thought.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 05:20 PM
Some people smoke because they like to smoke. Some people smoke once in a blue moon when something stressful happens. Some people eat crap food because it tastes good, or once in a blue moon when something stressful happens. Not everybody fits into these neat little boxes you're trying to put them in.

People who smoke because they like to smoke are habitual. The once in a blue moon characterizes maybe 5% of smokers, maybe. It is extremely hard to occasionally smoke considering how addictive it is. Do you honestly think 95% of people who eat crap food are unhealthy eaters? You are taking a very simple, straightforward act (smoking) and equating it to a very complex act (eating). If a mother ate a full bag of cheetos every day, but was otherwise nourished, the baby would be fine. However, if she was smoking consistently is completely different. Introducing ANY of those substances to an unborn during a highly critical period in a child's development can lead to drastic effects.

I am not going to continue with this argument. It's much harder to be malnourished as a mother, especially with the high volume of fortified foods in this country, than to smoke habitually. Further, if you can't see that introducing rat poison into a very sensitive fetal environment is worse than eating poorly, I can't help you.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 05:24 PM
People who smoke because they like to smoke are habitual. The once in a blue moon characterizes maybe 5% of smokers, maybe. It is extremely hard to occasionally smoke considering how addictive it is. Do you honestly think 95% of people who eat crap food are unhealthy eaters? You are taking a very simple, straightforward act (smoking) and equating it to a very complex act (eating). If a mother ate a full bag of cheetos every day, but was otherwise nourished, the baby would be fine. However, if she was smoking consistently is completely different. Introducing ANY of those substances to an unborn during a highly critical period in a child's development can lead to drastic effects.

I am not going to continue with this argument. It's much harder to be malnourished as a mother, especially with the high volume of fortified foods in this country, than to smoke habitually. Further, if you can't see that introducing rat poison into a very sensitive fetal environment is worse than eating poorly, I can't help you.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 05:28 PM
She's a human being. He saw her have one cigarette in front of an Arby's. Assigning a broad label like "selfish piece of shit" to a person without even knowing them discounts that person's humanity/complexity.

Drawing such a simple conclusion is just a simple way of thinking.

So introducing toxins into a fetal environment for the sake of temporary pleasure does not qualify as being selfish? Makes sense.

Look up the effects of smoking on an unborn fetus. Jesus

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 05:33 PM
ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

I assume this is in place of a logical rebuttal.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 05:34 PM
So introducing toxins into a fetal environment for the sake of temporary pleasure does not qualify as being selfish? Makes sense.

Look up the effects of smoking on an unborn fetus. Jesus

Hi, dumb****.

Maybe you didn't understand, he saw her smoke once and labeled her.

Maybe she smoked a pack a day before her pregnancy and didn't plan on getting pregnant in the first place. Maybe she's trying like hell to quit because of the baby. Maybe she's down to one or two cigarettes every few days... he doesn't ****ing know. YOU don't ****ing know. Do you get it? You don't know her well enough to label her a selfish piece of shit based on one ****ing act.

J Diddy
05-31-2012, 05:34 PM
So introducing toxins into a fetal environment for the sake of temporary pleasure does not qualify as being selfish? Makes sense.

Look up the effects of smoking on an unborn fetus. Jesus

How do you know she hadn't quit and relapsed? Do you know how hard it is to quit? Maybe she quit and found out that her whole family had been exploded in a plane mid air?

Of course, I disagree with it but to label one person's existence in just a snapshot is simple thinking.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 05:35 PM
Another thing... we are males. We can not sympathize with a woman who is carrying a child. This needs to stop.

J Diddy
05-31-2012, 05:35 PM
I assume this is in place of a logical rebuttal.

With less than 200 posts you haven't earned the right to a logical rebuttal yet. All you've earned thus far is a smiley parade.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 05:37 PM
Hi, dumb****.

Maybe you didn't understand, he saw her smoke once and labeled her.

Maybe she smoked a pack a day before her pregnancy and didn't plan on getting pregnant in the first place. Maybe she's trying like hell to quit because of the baby. Maybe she's down to one or two cigarettes every few days... he doesn't ****ing know. YOU don't ****ing know. Do you get it? You don't know her well enough to label her a selfish piece of shit based on one ****ing act.

That's a great excuse for debilitating congenital anomalies associated with smoking. Derp!

loochy
05-31-2012, 05:38 PM
That's a great excuse for debilitating congenital anomalies associated with smoking. Derp!

It's okay. It's really hard to not smoke.

TinyEvel
05-31-2012, 05:38 PM
I think it was judgmental of you to call a fat woman pregnant.

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 05:39 PM
That's not true smoking is the #1 cause in birth defects.

That is patently false. You have been sold on a line of complete and utter bullshit. While I certainly don't think it's a responsible thing for a mother to do... it's not even close to as dangerous for the fetus as the media would have you believe. BUT based on what the media have brainwashed you and the rest of America to believe, you were fine in chastising her. You just happen to be wrong about the science. A vast majority of the studies that shows all these scary effects use horrendous methodologies geared toward reaching a desired outcome while ignoring much more important factors. Things as simple as the fact that low-income, low-education women tend to smoke therefore the overall nutrition is worse AND they have a much higher rate of drug and alcohol use.

You want to look at an unbiased study? http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/19675/

Here is the abstract
We estimate the harm from smoking during pregnancy upon child birth outcomes, using a rich dataset on a cohort of mothers and their births. We exploit a fixed effects approach to disentangle the correlation between smoking and birth weight from the causal effect. We find that, despite a detailed set of controls for maternal traits, around one-third of the harm from smoking is explained by unobservable traits of the mother. Smoking tends to reduce birth weight by 1.7%, but has no significant effect on the probability of having a low birth weight child, pre-term gestation or weeks of gestation. Exploring heterogeneity in the effect on birth weight, it is mothers who smoke for the 9 months of gestation that suffer the harm, whereas there is an insignificant effect for mothers who chose to quit by month 5. Additionally, there is evidence of potential complementarity in investment of human capital, as the impact on birth weight of smoking is much greater for low educated mothers, even controlling for the quantity of cigarettes they smoke. We suggest policy should target the low educated mothers, offering a more holistic approach to improving child health, as quitting smoking is only half of the battle

J Diddy
05-31-2012, 05:39 PM
That's a great excuse for debilitating congenital anomalies associated with smoking. Derp!

Because the one cig that Captain Genius saw her smoke before he started flapping his idiot clappers is automatically turn into a host of congenital anomalies.

J Diddy
05-31-2012, 05:40 PM
I think it was judgmental of you to call a fat woman pregnant.

That would even be more hilarious.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 05:43 PM
That's a great excuse for debilitating congenital anomalies associated with smoking. Derp!

It's ok n00b. I now absolve you of your incomprehension. It's going to be ok.

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 05:44 PM
So introducing toxins into a fetal environment for the sake of temporary pleasure does not qualify as being selfish? Makes sense.

Look up the effects of smoking on an unborn fetus. Jesus

I agree that it is selfish and shouldn't happen... BUT you are dead wrong on the scary science that you think happens to the fetus when the scary smoke monsters attack it!

Is it healthy? Certainly not.
Is it responsible? Not a chance.
Is it the MAJOR significant health risk that the media paints a picture of? Not at all.

Poor diet, dug and alcohol abuse, etc etc are far worse.

If I were a woman I wouldn't increase the risk of something bad happening to my baby by even .1% .. so I certainly wouldn't smoke. BUT let's not LIE about the science. There is no excuse for that.

Thig Lyfe
05-31-2012, 05:44 PM
Yo but did you fuck that shit?

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 05:47 PM
Just to be clear. I have no problem with what Bo did IF the science was such that he believes it to be. The media has sold us on that idea and 99% sure the woman in question has been told these same scary things and given no reason not to believe them. Therefore, for all she knew was seriously endangering her child.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 05:53 PM
I agree that it is selfish and shouldn't happen... BUT you are dead wrong on the scary science that you think happens to the fetus when the scary smoke monsters attack it!

Is it healthy? Certainly not.
Is it responsible? Not a chance.
Is it the MAJOR significant health risk that the media paints a picture of? Not at all.

Poor diet, dug and alcohol abuse, etc etc are far worse.

If I were a woman I wouldn't increase the risk of something bad happening to my baby by even .1% .. so I certainly wouldn't smoke. BUT let's not LIE about the science. There is no excuse for that.

Dead wrong? Based on one dissenting article when there is a fair amount of evidence that says otherwise? I have to run, but I don't think posting one article is enough to call me "dead wrong" on this topic.

Chocolate Hog
05-31-2012, 05:54 PM
That is patently false. You have been sold on a line of complete and utter bullshit. [/url]



You sure?

http://www.babycenter.com/0_how-smoking-during-pregnancy-affects-you-and-your-baby_1405720.bc

"Babies whose mother smoked in the first trimester of pregnancy are more likely to have a heart defect at birth.
In a U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study published in February 2011, these babies' risk of having certain types of congenital heart defects was 20 to 70 percent higher than it was for babies whose moms didn't smoke. The defects included those that obstruct the flow of blood from the right side of the heart into the lungs (right ventricular outflow tract obstructions) and openings between the upper chambers of the heart (atrial septal defects)."

http://www.webmd.com/baby/smoking-during-pregnancy

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/health_effects/pregnancy/

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancyhealth/smoking.html

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 05:57 PM
Dead wrong? Based on one dissenting article when there is a fair amount of evidence that says otherwise? I have to run, but I don't think posting one article is enough to call me "dead wrong" on this topic.

It's ok, n00b. You have not developed an ability to think independently or objectively. IT'S GOING TO BE OK.

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 06:01 PM
Dead wrong? Based on one dissenting article when there is a fair amount of evidence that says otherwise? I have to run, but I don't think posting one article is enough to call me "dead wrong" on this topic.

No, you're right, one article isn't enough but years of looking at studies is. I can produce a ton more if you want to get in to it.

The amount of hype is ridiculous. That doesn't make it healthy.. it just isn't the bugaboo that the media paints the picture of.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 06:01 PM
Honestly, what happened to the entire generation of babies born throughout the 60s and 70s (before any studies were conducted) while mothers were smoking like chimneys? What happened to that generation?

Edit: or, fuck it, the 30s, 40s, and 50s too

loochy
05-31-2012, 06:02 PM
Honestly, what happened to the entire generation of babies born throughout the 60s and 70s (before any studies were conducted) while mothers were smoking like chimneys? What happened to that generation?

They all became retards and drove the country into endless debt. :thumb:

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 06:10 PM
You sure?

http://www.babycenter.com/0_how-smoking-during-pregnancy-affects-you-and-your-baby_1405720.bc

"Babies whose mother smoked in the first trimester of pregnancy are more likely to have a heart defect at birth.
In a U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study published in February 2011, these babies' risk of having certain types of congenital heart defects was 20 to 70 percent higher than it was for babies whose moms didn't smoke. The defects included those that obstruct the flow of blood from the right side of the heart into the lungs (right ventricular outflow tract obstructions) and openings between the upper chambers of the heart (atrial septal defects)."

http://www.webmd.com/baby/smoking-during-pregnancy

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/health_effects/pregnancy/

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancyhealth/smoking.html

And those studies don't account for the fact that OTHER FACTORS could be the cause of the defect. Actually quite a few studies do account for this but the media "conclusions" reached are where the disconnect lies.

Let me give you a completely made up but plausible example. Let's say we look at a study that examines 1000 women. 500 of those women smoke, 500 do not. Now we run the numbers and show that the 500 smokers have 5 times the incidence of birth defects. Media conclusion is... "SMOKING causing 5x increase in birth defects!!!! OMG!! OH NOES!!!" Now let's dig deeper. Let's say that the 500 non smokers are also not drinking during pregnancy and have healthy diets and access to top quality health care. Let's also say the 500 smokers have 300 women with awful diets who drank heavily and had zero doctor visits.. oh and a high occurrence of drug use. Now.. is it the smoking that caused the issues? It very well could be but the study certainly doesn't support that conclusion. The only conclusion you can reasonably draw is that SMOKERS have a higher chance of birth defects (possibly due to many other factors) not that SMOKING was the cause.

Dig deep enough and you'll see this happens all the time. It's disgusting that we swallow this bullshit whole all the time.

Chocolate Hog
05-31-2012, 06:15 PM
And those studies don't account for the fact that OTHER FACTORS could be the cause of the defect. Actually quite a few studies do account for this but the media "conclusions" reached are where the disconnect lies.

Let me give you a completely made up but plausible example. Let's say we look at a study that examines 1000 women. 500 of those women smoke, 500 do not. Now we run the numbers and show that the 500 smokers have 5 times the incidence of birth defects. Media conclusion is... "SMOKING causing 5x increase in birth defects!!!! OMG!! OH NOES!!!" Now let's dig deeper. Let's say that the 500 non smokers are also not drinking during pregnancy and have healthy diets and access to top quality health care. Let's also say the 500 smokers have 300 women with awful diets who drank heavily and had zero doctor visits.. oh and a high occurrence of drug use. Now.. is it the smoking that caused the issues? It very well could be but the study certainly doesn't support that conclusion. The only conclusion you can reasonably draw is that SMOKERS have a higher chance of birth defects (possibly due to many other factors) not that SMOKING was the cause.

Dig deep enough and you'll see this happens all the time. It's disgusting that we swallow this bullshit whole all the time.

I'm sorry but I find it plausible that a cig which contains hundreds of chemicals that destroys a humans lungs and heart could also cause damage to a fetus.

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 06:35 PM
I'm sorry but I find it plausible that a cig which contains hundreds of chemicals that destroys a humans lungs and heart could also cause damage to a fetus.

That's fine for you to believe something... that doesn't make it scientifically valid. BTW no one is arguing that it isn't healthy. Of course it isn't. I am just saying that it isn't nearly as bad or scary as the media tries to make you believe.

Look at the science and understand the difference between causality and correlation.

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 06:51 PM
I'm sorry but I find it plausible that a cig which contains hundreds of chemicals that destroys a humans lungs and heart could also cause damage to a fetus.

And to be clear, I think the women was being selfish and stupid and I have no problem with you pointing it out to her.

Inmem58
05-31-2012, 06:58 PM
People who smoke are fucking gross anyways.

Nasty ass smell walking around when I'm trying to eat and stuff

CrazyHorse
05-31-2012, 07:01 PM
Yes. You handled it poorly. The way you said it sure isnt going to make her stop. The only value you provided was to use the situation to pad your ego.

Walking by and saying nothing would have been better.

I dont have a problem saying something to her. Just make it less judgement and more value.

Im not trying to be harsh. Just answering the question.

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 07:04 PM
People who smoke are fucking gross anyways.

Nasty ass smell walking around when I'm trying to eat and stuff

And that is a fine opinion to have. Just don't promote bullshit lies based on false science to try to force your opinion on others.

I think it's gross to have to hear smacking/eating/mouth sounds on tv commercials... but I'm not going to produce some crap study showing that it "hurts" my ears or damages my health in some way.

Inmem58
05-31-2012, 07:08 PM
And that is a fine opinion to have. Just don't promote bullshit lies based on false science to try to force your opinion on others.

I think it's gross to have to hear smacking/eating/mouth sounds on tv commercials... but I'm not going to produce some crap study showing that it "hurts" my ears or damages my health in some way.


Horrible comparison holy shit

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 07:25 PM
Horrible comparison holy shit

Why? You are annoyed by something, I am annoyed by something. Be an adult and deal with it.

Let's give a better comparison. People who smoke in public around you annoy you. Crying babies in public annoy me. I could show you a study that shows that people who are most exposed to crying babies have a much higher incidence of sleep loss and exposure to foreign(not their own) fecal matter. Both of which are major health concerns! Therefore the hearing of crying babies must cause those conditions!!!!

So to satisfy my preference to not put up with crying babies, I promote that study and get crying babies banned from public spaces. Fair right?

"Thinking" like this is rampant in America. We are a nation of whiny assholes.

Brock
05-31-2012, 07:35 PM
That's a great excuse for debilitating congenital anomalies associated with smoking. Derp!

LMAO What a gross overreaction.

Inmem58
05-31-2012, 07:36 PM
Why? You are annoyed by something, I am annoyed by something. Be an adult and deal with it.

Let's give a better comparison. People who smoke in public around you annoy you. Crying babies in public annoy me. I could show you a study that shows that people who are most exposed to crying babies have a much higher incidence of sleep loss and exposure to foreign(not their own) fecal matter. Both of which are major health concerns! Therefore the hearing of crying babies must cause those conditions!!!!

So to satisfy my preference to not put up with crying babies, I promote that study and get crying babies banned from public spaces. Fair right?

"Thinking" like this is rampant in America. We are a nation of whiny assholes.

You can take a crying baby away from a space that may cause disruption to others, but you can't take away the nasty smell of inconsiderate smokers. Let's go smoke a few cigs and go inside a restaurant. Yeah that's cool, stay your nasty ass outside or always pack some AXE or cologne lol.

You like to smell cigarette smoke while you eat then good for you. I'd ask to be seated somewhere else.

WilliamTheIrish
05-31-2012, 07:41 PM
Brock makes a perfectly good argument. Having a pregnant woman ingesting a terrible diet during pregnancy is every bit as damaging as smoking. There are hundreds of factors that contribute.

Smoking isn't a good thing to do during pregnancy obviously. But there are a lot of other factors to consider.

And I don't care that you yelled at her.

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 07:42 PM
You can take a crying baby away from a space that may cause disruption to others, but you can't take away the nasty smell of inconsiderate smokers. Let's go smoke a few cigs and go inside a restaurant. Yeah that's cool, stay your nasty ass outside or always pack some AXE or cologne lol.

You like to smell cigarette smoke while you eat then good for you. I'd ask to be seated somewhere else.

Again. No problem with you not liking something. Let's replace crying babies with someone with awful body odor. If your reaction is the same as mine... ask to be moved or go elsewhere... no problem. If instead I go out and try to make it illegal to not use deodorant..or quote some bullshit study to make it seem like it isn't just me being annoyed but instead I'm being "harmed"... then I'm an asshole.

Now you see where I take issue.

Fish
05-31-2012, 07:43 PM
You can take a crying baby away from a space that may cause disruption to others, but you can't take away the nasty smell of inconsiderate smokers. Let's go smoke a few cigs and go inside a restaurant. Yeah that's cool, stay your nasty ass outside or always pack some AXE or cologne lol.

You like to smell cigarette smoke while you eat then good for you. I'd ask to be seated somewhere else.

LMAO... yeah.. that makes sense...

One scent bothers my delicate sensibilities, so I demand that you apply another scent that may or may not offend someone else.

You like to smell shitty cologne while you eat then good for you. I'd ask to be seated somewhere else.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 07:45 PM
No, you're right, one article isn't enough but years of looking at studies is. I can produce a ton more if you want to get in to it.

The amount of hype is ridiculous. That doesn't make it healthy.. it just isn't the bugaboo that the media paints the picture of.

So the cdc is caught up in this media bugaboo? I'm sorry, but I'm going to side with the surgeon general on this one.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 07:51 PM
That's fine for you to believe something... that doesn't make it scientifically valid. BTW no one is arguing that it isn't healthy. Of course it isn't. I am just saying that it isn't nearly as bad or scary as the media tries to make you believe.

Look at the science and understand the difference between causality and correlation.

I'm all for questioning shoddy science, but you do realize that your "source" is not scientific, correct? It was published by the London school of economics and political science.

Pablo
05-31-2012, 07:51 PM
Yeah, but did you kick her in the stomach for smoking? That's what a real ninja would have done.

Al Bundy
05-31-2012, 07:54 PM
Some people smoke because they like to smoke. Some people smoke once in a blue moon when something stressful happens. Some people eat crap food because it tastes good, or once in a blue moon when something stressful happens. Not everybody fits into these neat little boxes you're trying to put them in.

I would be willing to bet anything in this world that the woman in question is a regular pack a day smoker.

Brock
05-31-2012, 07:56 PM
I would be willing to bet anything in this world that the woman in question is a regular pack a day smoker.

For whatever that's worth.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 07:57 PM
I would be willing to bet anything in this world that the woman in question is a regular pack a day smoker.

Stop using common sense! It oversimplifies things.

Brock
05-31-2012, 08:01 PM
yes! We must absolutely assume the worst about somebody doing something we dont' like!

What a bunch of nagging busybodies.

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 08:08 PM
So the cdc is caught up in this media bugaboo? I'm sorry, but I'm going to side with the surgeon general on this one.

Actually yes to a certain extent. The CDC is not above politicizing things and pushing agendas. If you dig down and look at the studies they show CORRELATION not CAUSALITY. (see my example earlier about the difference)

That is not to say that there isn't a health risk. It is the DEGREE of unhealthiness that is being overblown. Let's look at the MAJOR concern. You are replacing oxygen with carbon monoxide.. that isn't healthy for the baby. No one disputes this. Now, let's look at carbon monoxide intake in a city like Los Angeles. Let's go a step further. A cab driver in LA takes in about the same carbon monoxide as a moderate smoker (less then a pack a day). Why aren't you up in arms about pregnant cabbies in LA? Pregnant bus drivers?

I could go on and on if you cared to actually listen and look at the science.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 08:10 PM
yes! We must absolutely assume the worst about somebody doing something we dont' like!

What a bunch of nagging busybodies.

If I went up to 100 women in the same situation, I guarantee 95 of them would be consistent smokers. I like those odds, so I will continue to feel that way. If they feel I'm being judgmental, tough ****.

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 08:11 PM
So the cdc is caught up in this media bugaboo? I'm sorry, but I'm going to side with the surgeon general on this one.



I'm finding it REALLY hard to believe that you are actually a med school student. You would surely have been taught to scrutinize research and consider deficiencies. Specifically, you would have been taught the deficiencies of human research (no laboratory settings due to ethics issues). Human research that is conducted outside of a controlled environment is riddled with variables. Surely you have been taught to think independently and approach things skeptically... surely.

PS: this n00b informed me he is a med school student in a rep comment, which means we must bow to his brain-power

Brock
05-31-2012, 08:13 PM
If I went up to 100 women in the same situation, I guarantee 95 of them would be consistent smokers. I like those odds, so I will continue to feel that way. If they feel I'm being judgmental, tough ****.

I feel pretty confident that you can't back that up, so I'm fine with you continuing to feel that way.

Pasta Giant Meatball
05-31-2012, 08:25 PM
If I went up to 100 women in the same situation, I guarantee 95 of them would be consistent smokers. I like those odds, so I will continue to feel that way. If they feel I'm being judgmental, tough ****.

Well aren't you just a regular Douchie Howser.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 08:28 PM
Actually yes to a certain extent. The CDC is not above politicizing things and pushing agendas. If you dig down and look at the studies they show CORRELATION not CAUSALITY. (see my example earlier about the difference)

That is not to say that there isn't a health risk. It is the DEGREE of unhealthiness that is being overblown. Let's look at the MAJOR concern. You are replacing oxygen with carbon monoxide.. that isn't healthy for the baby. No one disputes this. Now, let's look at carbon monoxide intake in a city like Los Angeles. Let's go a step further. A cab driver in LA takes in about the same carbon monoxide as a moderate smoker (less then a pack a day). Why aren't you up in arms about pregnant cabbies in LA? Pregnant bus drivers?

I could go on and on if you cared to actually listen and look at the science.

Yeah, because a school for political science would NEVER try to push an agenda. Please.

And it isn't simply about carbon monoxide intake. It's about CO intake during a critical period of development. Since the fetus gets oxygen via maternal blood circulation, it will directly affect the O2 and CO levels available to the fetus. Fetal hemoglobin has a much higher affinity for it's substrate (usually O2, but in this case CO). CO also has a greater affinity to both maternal and fetal hemoglobin, so it binds at a much higher rate than O2. Thus, CO is going to bind at a relatively high rate to fetal hemoglobin. If CO is competitively inhibiting O2 to a vital organ, such as the brain, you run the risk of having a congenital abnormality.

To your cabbie point, yes, I agree that's not a good environment for a mother. But smoking is avoidable. Earning a livelihood is not. I have a hard time scolding somebody for making a living in circumstances that are beyond their control.

Cephalic Trauma
05-31-2012, 08:33 PM
I'm finding it REALLY hard to believe that you are actually a med school student. You would surely have been taught to scrutinize research and consider deficiencies. Specifically, you would have been taught the deficiencies of human research (no laboratory settings due to ethics issues). Human research that is conducted outside of a controlled environment is riddled with variables. Surely you have been taught to think independently and approach things skeptically... surely.

PS: this n00b informed me he is a med school student in a rep comment, which means we must bow to his brain-power

True, that's why animal models are extremely important in cases such as this. That doesn't mean that case-control human studies are irrelevant. Otherwise they wouldn't be conducted by researchers.

Feel free to question. I don't have anything to prove.

Al Bundy
05-31-2012, 08:37 PM
yes! We must absolutely assume the worst about somebody doing something we dont' like!

What a bunch of nagging busybodies.

OR we see a pregnant woman smoking a cigarette and we say "what a dumbass bitch, doesn't she know she is probably harming her unborn child?" Truth is she probably doesn't care that she has a real chance of harming her unborn child, I say as long as my tax dollars don't go to providing long term health care to this unborn child then it isn't my problem.

JonesCrusher
05-31-2012, 08:49 PM
http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20090210/obesity-carries-pregnancy-risks

Obese Women More Likely to Have Babies With Birth Defects, Study Shows
By Kathleen Doheny (http://www.webmd.com/kathleen-doheny)
WebMD Health News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD (http://www.webmd.com/louise-chang)
http://img.webmd.com/dtmcms/live/webmd/consumer_assets/site_images/articles/thumbnails_daily_images/2009/Febuuary_2009/obesity_pregnancy_birth_defects.jpg
Feb. 10, 2009 -- Women who are obese during pregnancy have a higher risk than normal-weight women of having babies with certain birth defects, including neural tube defects such as spina bifida, heart problems, and cleft palate and lip, according to a new review.
"It is important to note that birth defects are a rare event and occur in 2%-4% of pregnancies, so the risk remains very low," says Judith Rankin, PhD, a study co-author and a reader in material and perinatal epidemiology at the University of Newcastle in England. "The last thing we want to do is scare women.
Rather, the goal is to inform them, she says, and to encourage women who are obese to get preconception counseling about weight loss.
The new report, published in this week's Journal of the American Medical Association, is a review of previously published work. Rankin and her colleagues culled the medical literature, pooled the results of 18 studies, and reviewed the findings of 39 other studies to determine if the association between obesity and birth defects still held up. It did.
Obesity & Birth Defects: The Study

Rankin's team undertook the study because of the growing problem of obesity in women of childbearing age. In the U.S., one-third of women 15 and older are obese, the authors note, and those numbers are expected to rise.
"This is a very important public health issue given the growing numbers of women who are obese at the start of pregnancy," says Rankin, who notes that obesity is also increasing in the U.K.
Obesity & Birth Defects: Results

In the new analysis, women who were obese before pregnancy or in early pregnancy had a significantly increased risk of having a baby with birth defects. The risks differed for specific problems.


The risk of spina bifida was more than two times as high for obese pregnant women, and the overall risk of neural tube defects was nearly twice as high.
The risk of cardiovascular defects was 30% higher.
The risk of cleft lip and cleft palate, either singly or together, was about 20% higher.
The risk of hydrocephaly (an abnormal buildup of fluid in the brain) was 60% higher.
Limb reduction abnormalities were 30% higher.

The definitions of overweight and obese differed somewhat from study to study, but many studies used those set by the World Health Organization -- a body mass index or BMI of 25 and above for overweight and 30 and above for obese.
More research is needed to determine if the link between excess weight and birth defects holds for overweight women. "There isn't the same amount of research evidence for overweight as there is for obesity,'' Rankin says.
Obesity & Birth Defects: Explaining the Link

Exactly how obesity increases birth defect risk isn't known, but the researchers offer possible explanations.


Because maternal diabetes is known to increase the risk of birth defects, and obese women are at higher risk for type 2 diabetes, the mother-to-be may have undiagnosed diabetes.
Obese women have been shown to have nutritional deficiencies, especially reduced levels of folate, which is important to prevent neural tube defects. Obese women may need more than the amount routinely recommended to prevent birth defects.

JonesCrusher
05-31-2012, 08:53 PM
I saw a overweight pregnant women drinking a Mt Dew today. I think I'll go on Facebook and express my outrage.

Inmem58
05-31-2012, 08:55 PM
I saw a overweight pregnant women drinking a Mt Dew today. I think I'll go on Facebook and express my outrage.

WTF is she drinking that shit for?


Stupid fat whore

SPATCH
05-31-2012, 08:56 PM
True, that's why animal models are extremely important in cases such as this. That doesn't mean that case-control human studies are irrelevant. Otherwise they wouldn't be conducted by researchers.

Feel free to question. I don't have anything to prove.

Check it out, dude. If you want to be any sort of a good doctor, it's time to drop that attitude. You're going to be working with people ALOT. Quit with the pigeonholing and make an effort to attempt to understand people. Being open-minded is an essential part of the profession

J Diddy
05-31-2012, 09:19 PM
If I went up to 100 women in the same situation, I guarantee 95 of them would be consistent smokers. I like those odds, so I will continue to feel that way. If they feel I'm being judgmental, tough ****.

Maybe she was on her way to get an abortion.

Count Zarth
05-31-2012, 09:21 PM
That's awesome.

Saulbadguy
05-31-2012, 09:22 PM
Maybe she was on her way to get an abortion.

Good point.

Count Zarth
05-31-2012, 09:27 PM
Maybe she was on her way to get an abortion.

And a 64 oz big gulp.

Okie_Apparition
05-31-2012, 09:34 PM
If you post on FB
Your opinion is pretty much worthless anyway

J Diddy
05-31-2012, 09:36 PM
People who smoke are ****ing gross anyways.

Nasty ass smell walking around when I'm trying to eat and stuff

I've been a smoker off and on for the last 20 years. Right now I'm in day 2 of my quit and am a little tense, so don't take this the wrong way.

I think I'd rather smoke the tongue of a whiny ass nonsmoker that would shut them up for good than a cig right now.

WhiteWhale
05-31-2012, 09:39 PM
"Thinking" like this is rampant in America. We are a nation of whiny assholes.

Yes.

Brock
05-31-2012, 09:41 PM
I've been a smoker off and on for the last 20 years. Right now I'm in day 2 of my quit and am a little tense, so don't take this the wrong way.

I think I'd rather smoke the tongue of a whiny ass nonsmoker that would shut them up for good than a cig right now.

Hey, good luck.

Inmem58
05-31-2012, 09:41 PM
I've been a smoker off and on for the last 20 years. Right now I'm in day 2 of my quit and am a little tense, so don't take this the wrong way.

I think I'd rather smoke the tongue of a whiny ass nonsmoker that would shut them up for good than a cig right now.

Not whining at all, spray some shit on yourself before you go out in public. **** how hard is that? Are all smokers this lazy and inconsiderate?

J Diddy
05-31-2012, 09:45 PM
Not whining at all, spray some shit on yourself before you go out in public. **** how hard is that? Are all smokers this lazy or inconsiderate?

Start smoking, get nose plugs or deal with it.

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 09:48 PM
Not whining at all, spray some shit on yourself before you go out in public. **** how hard is that? Are all smokers this lazy and inconsiderate?

Smoking weakens you sense of smell. I smoked for 8 yrs. I quit back in 96.

Smokers dont know they smell like smoke.

Inmem58
05-31-2012, 09:56 PM
Start smoking, get nose plugs or deal with it.

ROFL I hope you don't give advice to young ones.

Inmem58
05-31-2012, 09:57 PM
Smoking weakens you sense of smell. I smoked for 8 yrs. I quit back in 96.

Smokers dont know they smell like smoke.

You could be right, but it's more of a common sense situation.

J Diddy
05-31-2012, 10:01 PM
ROFL I hope you don't give advice to young ones.

Frequently.

Son: You smell like smoke.
Me: Shut your mouth before I give ya nother black eye. Fetch me my milwaukee best.

Inmem58
05-31-2012, 10:04 PM
Frequently.

Son: You smell like smoke.
Me: Shut your mouth before I give ya nother black eye. Fetch me my milwaukee best.

See, now this is acceptable parenting. Now we see eye to eye on something

AustinChief
05-31-2012, 10:05 PM
You could be right, but it's more of a common sense situation.

I agree with you on this. Although some smokers don't smell as much like smoke as others.. no clue why but true.

Cannibal
05-31-2012, 10:10 PM
No, it really isn't. When someone exhibits unhealthy behavior, it could be a habit or it could be a one time thing. Either way, it's none of your business.

I agree. Maybe she had quit for the pregnancy up to that point and was really stressed about something and that was her one cigarette until the kid is born. That is a plausible scenario and none of know for sure. So I do agree, it was none of his business.

Cannibal
05-31-2012, 10:13 PM
Hi, dumb****.

Maybe you didn't understand, he saw her smoke once and labeled her.

Maybe she smoked a pack a day before her pregnancy and didn't plan on getting pregnant in the first place. Maybe she's trying like hell to quit because of the baby. Maybe she's down to one or two cigarettes every few days... he doesn't ****ing know. YOU don't ****ing know. Do you get it? You don't know her well enough to label her a selfish piece of shit based on one ****ing act.

You're correct

BigMeatballDave
05-31-2012, 10:52 PM
You could be right, but it's more of a common sense situation.

Its an after thought.

When I smoked, I could smell it on my fingers, but thats it.

It isnt something I really thought about. Back then, all but like 3 of my friends smoked. The ones that didnt never complained.

Phobia
05-31-2012, 10:59 PM
I'm not a huge fan of of BP and while I don't really enjoy confronting random strangers, I'm on board with BP holding this woman accountable. Probably could have been more graceful in the way he did it but maturity comes with age. I don't have a huge problem with it.

Brock
05-31-2012, 11:02 PM
"holding this woman accountable" LMAO

Phobia
05-31-2012, 11:16 PM
"holding this woman accountable" LMAO

Yeah. I don't blame you. That was probably a poorly chosen phrase. I'd be laughing at me too.

SPchief
05-31-2012, 11:23 PM
I'm not a huge fan of of BP and while I don't really enjoy confronting random strangers, I'm on board with BP holding this woman accountable. Probably could have been more graceful in the way he did it but maturity comes with age. I don't have a huge problem with it.

What's he holding this woman accountable for? Her rights or his beliefs?

Chiefburger
05-31-2012, 11:30 PM
the very act of smoking is selfish, and doubly if the smoker is pregnant. BP did right.

SPchief
05-31-2012, 11:37 PM
the very act of smoking is selfish, and doubly if the smoker is pregnant. BP did right.

:spock:

Chiefburger
06-01-2012, 12:00 AM
by definition, i would consider a number of innocent activities selfish, including exercising, studying, masturbating, etc. i could even add necessities like sleeping and eating to the list. by this logic, there is no question what she did was selfish. but moreover, unlike the acts above, the conscious act of smoking is harmful to others and just inconsiderate. the fact that she forced those toxins into the nascent respiratory system of an unborn child makes her a POS.

Earthling
06-01-2012, 12:05 AM
Could have been an e-cig. Could be her Doc just gave her weeks to live. You don't know her or anything about her. Personally I would have told you to shut the fu*k up and mind your own business.

Chiefburger
06-01-2012, 12:11 AM
Could have been an e-cig. Could be her Doc just gave her weeks to live. You don't know her or anything about her. Personally I would have told you to shut the fu*k up and mind your own business.

i'd spend my last days in front of an Arby's, too. :rolleyes: i don't need a jury to reach a verdict in cases like these; it should be plain to see this presumably pregnant woman was endangering the life of a helpless child. of course, it's just easier to think the woman was terminal and not do anything.

Phobia
06-01-2012, 12:14 AM
Could have been an e-cig. Could be her Doc just gave her weeks to live. You don't know her or anything about her. Personally I would have told you to shut the fu*k up and mind your own business.

She could have been an alien sent to collect the reactions of humans to a smoking pregnant woman. This is why I just ignore all of them in hopes of skewing their data.

Chocolate Hog
06-01-2012, 12:16 AM
I'm not a huge fan of of BP and while I don't really enjoy confronting random strangers, I'm on board with BP holding this woman accountable. Probably could have been more graceful in the way he did it but maturity comes with age. I don't have a huge problem with it.

You don't like me? lame.

Bump
06-01-2012, 12:19 AM
only on CP would pregnant women smoking be acceptable.

Phobia
06-01-2012, 12:24 AM
You don't like me? lame.

You seem a little too ripe for confrontation which may be part of your problem. I didn't say "I don't like that guy". I said, "I'm not a huge fan" which is a much nicer way of saying "I don't like that guy". It's akin to saying, "I'm concerned for the welfare of your unborn child" which is a much nicer way of saying "you're a worthless, selfish POS".

AustinChief
06-01-2012, 12:24 AM
only on CP would pregnant women smoking be acceptable.

Pretty sure no one here finds it acceptable. Hell even with the argument I made that it's blown out of proportion by the media.. I still find it completely unacceptable, low class and selfish.

AustinChief
06-01-2012, 12:28 AM
the conscious act of smoking is harmful to others and just inconsiderate. the fact that she forced those toxins into the nascent respiratory system of an unborn child makes her a POS.

"Harmful to others" is rarely the case in reality... on the flip side, it being inconsiderate is far too often the case.

And a fetus/baby doesn't have a working respiratory system.. it goes in through the bloodstream... not better by any stretch but just keeping the facts straight. (I'm assuming you are referring to respiratory as in the act of drawing in through the air not cellular respiration which wouldn't make much more sense anyway.)

Bacon Cheeseburger
06-01-2012, 12:28 AM
by definition, i would consider a number of innocent activities selfish, including exercising, studying, masturbating, etc. i could even add necessities like sleeping and eating to the list. by this logic, there is no question what she did was selfish. but moreover, unlike the acts above, the conscious act of smoking is harmful to others and just inconsiderate. the fact that she forced those toxins into the nascent respiratory system of an unborn child makes her a POS.
Respiratory system? Of an unborn child?

Bacon Cheeseburger
06-01-2012, 12:31 AM
"Harmful to others" is rarely the case in reality... on the flip side, it being inconsiderate is far too often the case.


Bingo. The whole "OMG SECONDHAND SMOKE" is a red herring that people hide behind because they don't like the smell of it.

Earthling
06-01-2012, 12:37 AM
only on CP would pregnant women smoking be acceptable.


I don't think anyone agreed that it was an acceptable practice for a pregnant woman to smoke. The question is should you inject your beliefs on a complete and total stranger.

AustinChief
06-01-2012, 12:38 AM
Bingo. The whole "OMG SECONDHAND SMOKE" is a red herring that people hide behind because they don't like the smell of it.

I wish our schools properly taught the difference between causality and correlation and maybe even a class on epidemiology. Hell a simple class on toxicology wouldn't hurt either.

The thing that bothers me more than ANYTHING is that people swallow these "facts" and then go around espousing them as if they KNOW with absolute certainty what the reality is. Rarely do they do the research and dive into the actual studies themselves.. instead preferring to trust sensationalist media crap. Don't quote some bullshit meta-study... show me hard evidence. Oh, sorry, that's right.. it doesn't exist. This rant applies to all sorts of crap science not just the smoking propaganda.

In this instance, I have no problem with the idea that smoking is harmful to a fetus. Every worthwhile study I have seen shows a small BUT statistically significant impact. That is plenty for me to agree that pregnant women shouldn't smoke. AND there is always a chance that it is worse but we just don't have the hard proof to back that up. I just hate the rantings and assumptions of proof that in reality doesn't exist.

Phobia
06-01-2012, 12:40 AM
Bingo. The whole "OMG SECONDHAND SMOKE" is a red herring that people hide behind because they don't like the smell of it.

I agree with you except for the inexplicable lung and throat cancer my wife's grandmother contracted even though she's never smoked a day in her life and spent 30 years working in an office environment full of smokers. Her body has been zapped with so much chemo now that she has to eat special food because her salivary glands don't really function any longer.

Phobia
06-01-2012, 12:43 AM
I don't think anyone agreed that it was an acceptable practice for a pregnant woman to smoke. The question is should you inject your beliefs on a complete and total stranger.

In support of a defenseless child? Why wouldn't you? Unless you're the type of person who gets a kick out of confrontation the very act of objecting seems to imply that you care more about the kid than the woman carrying him/her.

AustinChief
06-01-2012, 12:46 AM
I agree with you except for the inexplicable lung and throat cancer my wife's grandmother contracted even though she's never smoked a day in her life and spent 30 years working in an office environment full of smokers. Her body has been zapped with so much chemo now that she has to eat special food because her salivary glands don't really function any longer.

I'm sorry about your wife's grandmother but you know full well that anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all in a serious discussion of the risks. I can point out more examples of no contact with smoke and instances of lung disease or even examples of people who smoked their whole life and never had the disease.

Bacon Cheeseburger
06-01-2012, 12:46 AM
I agree with you except for the inexplicable lung and throat cancer my wife's grandmother contracted even though she's never smoked a day in her life and spent 30 years working in an office environment full of smokers. Her body has been zapped with so much chemo now that she has to eat special food because her salivary glands don't really function any longer.
Yes, I recall you bringing this up before. The thing is, you can find isolated incidences of lung cancer in non-smokers...it happens. There are other things that can contribute to it. You can't say with absolute certainly that secondhand smoke caused it.

With that said, I have no issue with workplace smoking bans, no one should be subjected to that on a daily basis. Hell, even the restaurant ban didn't bother me. But we crossed the line over to absurdity with the bar ban and there are even places where smoking outdoors is being controlled. Walking by someone who is smoking outside isn't going to give anyone lung cancer.

AustinChief
06-01-2012, 12:47 AM
In support of a defenseless child? Why wouldn't you? Unless you're the type of person who gets a kick out of confrontation the very act of objecting seems to imply that you care more about the kid than the woman carrying him/her.

I agree with this completely. I doubt I would handle that way myself but I have zero problem with it happening.

AustinChief
06-01-2012, 12:49 AM
Yes, I recall you bringing this up before. The thing is, you can find isolated incidences of lung cancer in non-smokers...it happens. There are other things that can contribute to it.

With that said, I have no issue with workplace smoking bans, no one should be subjected to that on a daily basis. Hell, even the restaurant ban didn't bother me. But we crossed the line over to absurdity with the bar ban and there are even places where smoking outdoors is being controlled. Walking by someone who is smoking outside isn't going to give anyone lung cancer.

I have problems with any private building being told to ban smoking. Period. Has ZERO to do with smokers rights.. they have the right to smoke in private all they want. It is about property rights of the business owner.

I am far more likely to support a ban on smoking in a public park then I am in a privately owned building.

On the subject of non-smokers with lung cancer... there are a ton of other risk factors like asbestos or radon to consider. 15% of lung cancer patients have not been significantly exposed to tobacco smoke in any way. Again, sorry that your family is experiencing this.

Bacon Cheeseburger
06-01-2012, 12:56 AM
I have problems with any private building being told to ban smoking. Period. Has ZERO to do with smokers rights.. they have the right to smoke in private all they want. It is about property rights of the business owner.

I am far more likely to support a ban on smoking in a public park then I am in a privately owned building.
I can see your point, but it's a lot easier to separate yourself from someone who is smoking in a park than from someone smoking in the cubicle next to you at work.

DeezNutz
06-01-2012, 01:06 AM
I would have said something. No choice.

Earthling
06-01-2012, 01:08 AM
In support of a defenseless child? Why wouldn't you? Unless you're the type of person who gets a kick out of confrontation the very act of objecting seems to imply that you care more about the kid than the woman carrying him/her.

If you are totally convinced that she is harming the fetus then I am not going to say that you are wrong to say something to her. But, without knowing anything at all about what this lady was smoking, how often she smoked, or any circumstances about her at all, then I just don't see the justification for it.

Phobia
06-01-2012, 01:13 AM
If you are totally convinced that she is harming the fetus then I am not going to say that you are wrong to say something to her. But, without knowing anything at all about what this lady was smoking, how often she smoked, or any circumstances about her at all, then I just don't see the justification for it.
You seem to be suggesting that the woman just grabbed a random cig in the middle of the day and decided to smoke it. People who smoke either do or they don't. Women don't start smoking or smoke one per week when they are visibly pregnant. If you're smoking in public with a big fat belly, you're more likely to be smoking 2 packs a day than 2 sticks.

Phobia
06-01-2012, 01:18 AM
I'm sorry about your wife's grandmother but you know full well that anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all in a serious discussion of the risks.

I agree with that. I just get grumpy when people talk about those who don't like the smell. Sometimes my body warns me about shit that is bad for me by sending signals. Now and then the signals are translated utilizing the sense of smell. I don't like the smell of fertilizer either. That's why I don't bathe in it. If it starts showing up in my bathtub spigot I hope somebody will make a law.

AustinChief
06-01-2012, 01:23 AM
I agree with that. I just get grumpy when people talk about those who don't like the smell. Sometimes my body warns me about shit that is bad for me by sending signals. Now and then the signals are translated utilizing the sense of smell. I don't like the smell of fertilizer either. That's why I don't bathe in it. If it starts showing up in my bathtub spigot I hope somebody will make a law.

Well shoot, I like the smell of paint and gasoline and glue... (no I don't huff them) but I don't bathe in them either. Ok, maybe that's a bad analogy since you know I just don't bathe.

But since I am bored, I am going to spin off a second hand smoke thread and see if I can sucker someone into arguing it with me.

Phobia
06-01-2012, 01:28 AM
Seriously though, I don't have a problem with smoke-free bars. The smell of a random cig outside doesn't bother me but I hate smelling like an ashtray if I choose to grab a few beers. I'm not sure it needs to be a government intervention thing but there should be some smokers clubs somewhere so those stinky bastards can stink away from me.

AustinChief
06-01-2012, 01:45 AM
Seriously though, I don't have a problem with smoke-free bars. The smell of a random cig outside doesn't bother me but I hate smelling like an ashtray if I choose to grab a few beers. I'm not sure it needs to be a government intervention thing but there should be some smokers clubs somewhere so those stinky bastards can stink away from me.

I agree with this in that there is a demand for smoke free bars, therefore bar owners can choose to go smoke-free... while others can be smoke filled. Leave the decision up to the guy whose life is invested in the business.

J Diddy
06-01-2012, 06:25 AM
Seriously though, I don't have a problem with smoke-free bars. The smell of a random cig outside doesn't bother me but I hate smelling like an ashtray if I choose to grab a few beers. I'm not sure it needs to be a government intervention thing but there should be some smokers clubs somewhere so those stinky bastards can stink away from me.

Go to Kansas. They're all smoke free.

Saulbadguy
06-01-2012, 06:47 AM
I agree with this in that there is a demand for smoke free bars, therefore bar owners can choose to go smoke-free... while others can be smoke filled. Leave the decision up to the guy whose life is invested in the business.

Your posts on this subject are garbage. 100% of them.

Humans will kill each other (and themselves) if not properly subjugated.

Aries Walker
06-01-2012, 06:53 AM
I have no problem with chewing the woman out. Defending the defenseless is basic morality.

The third party who called you judgmental was probably a friend of hers, trying to defend her noxious habit. Ignore that person.

Phobia
06-01-2012, 07:14 AM
Go to Kansas. They're all smoke free.

All smoke-free in Lee's Summit as well. I never knew how much nicer it was to arrive home from a bar not smelling like I personally smoked a pack of cigarettes.

BigMeatballDave
06-01-2012, 07:30 AM
I have no problem with chewing the woman out. Defending the defenseless is basic morality.

The third party who called you judgmental was probably a friend of hers, trying to defend her noxious habit. Ignore that person.

I don't care about the judgmental stuff.

Walking up to a complete stranger and calling them a piece of shit is over the line.

He could have used some tact and tried to educate her without insulting her.

durtyrute
06-01-2012, 07:31 AM
Mind your own business

TEX
06-01-2012, 09:10 AM
I don't care about the judgmental stuff.

Walking up to a complete stranger and calling them a piece of shit is over the line.

He could have used some tact and tried to educate her without insulting her.

This

Chief Faithful
06-01-2012, 09:35 AM
If you are a conflict avoider by nature then you were judgemental and wrong.

If you by nature are a conflict creator then you should have slapped the cigarette out of her hand and yelled at her for hating her baby. Then tell everyone who will listen how the mother was negligent concerning the health of her child and it should be taken away from her at birth.

RippedmyFlesh
06-01-2012, 09:44 AM
Today I saw something I thought was pretty shitty and shared it with facebook. I saw a visibly pregnant women smoking outside of Arby's with a Co-worker. I called this women a selfish POS and was told by someone how that's fucked up and I was being judgmental. Was I in the wrong?

Right play call poor execution.
Swearing at a stranger a tad over the top.
Next time just say

I think smoking is a horrible thing to do to your unborn child.

And leave it at that. Message sent.

Okie_Apparition
06-01-2012, 11:06 AM
I wonder if cigar smoking is dangerous for the unborn child
She may have just liked the taste of it in her mouth

Inspector
06-01-2012, 12:04 PM
Even though it's been many years, this thread is making me want a cig.

My mom smoked when pregnant with all 3 of her kids. None of us were harmed. Thankfully.

She didn't know any better when pregnant with my sister and myself any by the time she was pregnant with my little brother (10 years younger) there were commercials on TV where a doctor was recommending one brand over others cause it was "smoother on your throat".

Times have changed.

BigMeatballDave
06-01-2012, 12:06 PM
Even though it's been many years, this thread is making me want a cig.

My mom smoked when pregnant with all 3 of her kids. None of us were harmed. Thankfully.

She didn't know any better when pregnant with my sister and myself any by the time she was pregnant with my little brother (10 years younger) there were commercials on TV where a doctor was recommending one brand over others cause it was "smoother on your throat".

Times have changed.My mother smoked with me. I was born 2 weeks late and weighed 9lb 11oz.