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Bewbies
06-02-2012, 12:03 PM
This is the only article I've read on it, but based on this I LOVE what they're doing...(and clearly this reporter and the teacher unions do not)

Louisiana's bold bid to privatize schools

By Stephanie Simon

June 1 | Fri Jun 1, 2012 6:04pm EDT

(Reuters) - Louisiana is embarking on the nation's boldest experiment in privatizing public education, with the state preparing to shift tens of millions in tax dollars out of the public schools to pay private industry, businesses owners and church pastors to educate children.

Starting this fall, thousands of poor and middle-class kids will get vouchers covering the full cost of tuition at more than 120 private schools across Louisiana, including small, Bible-based church schools.

The following year, students of any income will be eligible for mini-vouchers that they can use to pay a range of private-sector vendors for classes and apprenticeships not offered in traditional public schools. The money can go to industry trade groups, businesses, online schools and tutors, among others.

Every time a student receives a voucher of either type, his local public school will lose a chunk of state funding.

"We are changing the way we deliver education," said Governor Bobby Jindal, a Republican who muscled the plan through the legislature this spring over fierce objections from Democrats and teachers unions. "We are letting parents decide what's best for their children, not government."

BIBLE-BASED MATH BOOKS

The concept of opening public schools to competition from the private sector has been widely promoted in recent years by well-funded education reform groups.

Of the plans so far put forward, Louisiana's plan is by far the broadest. This month, eligible families, including those with incomes nearing $60,000 a year, are submitting applications for vouchers to state-approved private schools.

That list includes some of the most prestigious schools in the state, which offer a rich menu of advanced placement courses, college-style seminars and lush grounds. The top schools, however, have just a handful of slots open. The Dunham School in Baton Rouge, for instance, has said it will accept just four voucher students, all kindergartners. As elsewhere, they will be picked in a lottery.

Far more openings are available at smaller, less prestigious religious schools, including some that are just a few years old and others that have struggled to attract tuition-paying students.

The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.

The Upperroom Bible Church Academy in New Orleans, a bunker-like building with no windows or playground, also has plenty of slots open. It seeks to bring in 214 voucher students, worth up to $1.8 million in state funding.

At Eternity Christian Academy in Westlake, pastor-turned-principal Marie Carrier hopes to secure extra space to enroll 135 voucher students, though she now has room for just a few dozen. Her first- through eighth-grade students sit in cubicles for much of the day and move at their own pace through Christian workbooks, such as a beginning science text that explains "what God made" on each of the six days of creation. They are not exposed to the theory of evolution.

"We try to stay away from all those things that might confuse our children," Carrier said.

Other schools approved for state-funded vouchers use social studies texts warning that liberals threaten global prosperity; Bible-based math books that don't cover modern concepts such as set theory; and biology texts built around refuting evolution.

TEACHERS WEIGH LAWSUIT

The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that vouchers can be used for religious education so long as the state is not promoting any one faith but letting parents choose where to enroll their children.

In Louisiana, Superintendent of Education John White said state officials have at one time or another visited all 120 schools in the voucher program and approved their curricula, including specific texts. He said the state plans more "due diligence" over the summer, including additional site visits to assess capacity.

In general, White said he will leave it to principals to be sure their curriculum covers all subjects kids need and leave it to parents to judge the quality of each private school on the list.

That infuriates the teachers union, which is weighing a lawsuit accusing the state of improperly diverting funds from public schools to private programs of questionable value.

"Because it's private, it's considered to be inherently better," said Steve Monaghan, president of the Louisiana Federation of Teachers. "From a consumer perspective, it's buyer beware."

To date, private schools have not had to give their students state standardized tests, so there's no straightforward way for parents to judge their performance. Starting next year, any student on a voucher will have to take the tests; each private school must report individual results to parents and aggregate results to the state.

The 47-page bill setting up the voucher program does not outline any consequences for private schools that get poor test scores. Instead, it requires the superintendent of schools to come up with an "accountability system" by Aug. 1. Once he does, the system cannot be altered except by legislative vote.

White would not say whether he is prepared to pull vouchers from private schools that do poorly on tests.

He pointed out that many kids applying for vouchers are now enrolled in dismal public schools where two-thirds of the students can't read or do math at grade level and half will drop out before they graduate high school. Given that track record, he argues it's worth sending a portion of the roughly $3.5 billion a year the state spends on education to private schools that may have developed different ways to reach kids.

"To me, it's a moral outrage that the government would say, 'We know what's best for your child,'" White said. "Who are we to tell parents we know better?"

That message resonates with Terrica Dotson, whose 12-year-old son, Tyler, attends public school in Baton Rouge. He makes the honor roll, but his mom says he isn't challenged in math and science. This week she was out visiting private schools. "I want him to have the education he needs," she said.

The state has run a pilot voucher program for several years in New Orleans and is pleased with the results. The proportion of kids scoring at or above grade level jumped 7 percentage points among voucher students this year, far outpacing the citywide rise of 3 percentage points, state officials said.

Studies of other voucher programs in the U.S. have shown mixed results.

In Louisiana the vouchers are available to any low- to middle-income student who now attends a public school where at least 25 percent of students test below grade level.

Households qualify with annual income up to 250 percent of the poverty line, or $57,625 for a family of four.

Statewide, 380,000 kids, more than half the total student population of 700,000, are eligible for vouchers. There are only about 5,000 slots open in private schools for the coming year, but state officials expect that to ramp up quickly.

NO FISCAL ANALYSIS

Officials have not estimated the price tag of these programs but expect the state will save money in the long run, because they believe the private sector can educate kids more cheaply than public schools.

Whether those savings will materialize is unclear.

By law, the value of each voucher can't exceed the sum the state would spend educating that child in public school -- on average, $8,800 a year. Small private schools often charge as little as $3,000 to $5,000 a year.

Yet at some private schools with low tuition, administrators contacted by Reuters said they would also ask the state to cover additional, unspecified fees, which would bring the cost to taxpayers close to the $8,800 cap. The law requires the state to cover both tuition and fees.

In the separate mini-voucher program due to launch in 2013, students across Louisiana, regardless of income, will be able to tap the state treasury to pay for classes that are offered by private vendors and not available in their regular public schools.

White said the state hopes to spur private industry to offer vocational programs and apprenticeships in exchange for vouchers worth up to $1,300 per student per class. Students can also use the mini-vouchers to design their own curriculum, tapping state funds to pay for online classes or private tutors if they're not satisfied with their public school's offerings.

State officials will review every private-sector class before approving it. They are still working out how to assess rigor and effectiveness.

The state has not done a formal fiscal analysis, but public school advocates say subtracting the costs of vouchers from their budgets is unfair because they have the same fixed costs -- from utilities to custodial services -- whether a child is in the building four hours a day or six. White responds that the state is not in the business of funding buildings; it's funding education.

While public schools fear fiscal disaster, many private school administrators see the voucher program as an economic lifeboat.

Valeria Thompson runs the Louisiana New School Academy in Baton Rouge, which prides itself on getting troubled students through middle and high school. Families have struggled to pay tuition, she said, and enrollment is down to about 60 kids.

"We're a good school," Thompson said, "but we've been struggling fiscally."

The vouchers have brought in a flood of new applicants and the promise of steady income from taxpayers. Thompson enrolled 17 new students in two days last month and hopes to bring in as many as 130. "I'm so grateful," she said. "You can't imagine how grateful."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/01/us-education-vouchers-idUSL1E8H10AG20120601

Bewbies
06-02-2012, 12:04 PM
I love that if a kid goes elsewhere the money they get in vouchers leaves their public school. Bringing competition for that money into the school system will do more to improve it than anything else they could do.

BucEyedPea
06-02-2012, 12:08 PM
This is how the progressive right will destroy the private school system—through the back door with vouchers.

Once that starts, if a school doesn't have a PC curriculum in place, they will eventually or the vouchers will be witheld. There's no gaurantee there will always be someone on the right running any particular govt to protect against such actions. The Feds run this type of ideological control with their own funds. All the schools want the money, 'er gravy train, so they will fall into line.

Sounds good on paper....but other consequences lurk. This is the nature of anything funded by govt.

Reaper16
06-02-2012, 12:12 PM
Yeah, how does this differ from the argument that government loans have made colleges bloated and ineffective?

mikey23545
06-02-2012, 12:14 PM
Just wondering...did you attend one of these "privitized" schools?

NewChief
06-02-2012, 12:20 PM
I read this recently, and I thought it made some good points about the perils of privatization. It looks like the LA plan goes some of the way to addressing the inequalities of voucher programs.

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/30/selling_out_public_schools/singleton/
Selling out public schools
Both Obama and Romney are assaulting public education. Five threats, in particular, stand out
By David Sirota

299
151
more

Topics: Education
Selling out public schools (Credit: iStockphoto/robas)

Here in the industrialized world’s most economically unequal nation, public education is still held up as the great equalizer — if not of outcome, then of opportunity. Schools are expected to be machines that overcome poverty, low wages, urban decay and budget cuts while somehow singlehandedly leveling the playing field for the next generation. And if they don’t fully level the playing field, they are at least supposed to act as a counter-force against both racial and economic inequality.

That vision, however, is now under assault by both political parties in America. On the Republican side, the Washington Post reports Mitt Romney just unveiled “a pro-choice, pro-voucher, pro-states-rights education program that seems certain to hasten the privatization of the public education system” completely. On the other side, Wall Street titans in the Democratic Party with zero experience in education policy are marshaling tens of millions of dollars to do much of what Romney aims to do as president – and they often have a willing partner in President Barack “Race to the Top” Obama and various Democratic governors.

Funded by corporate interests who naturally despise organized labor, both sides have demonized teachers’ unions as the primary problem in education — somehow ignoring the fact that most of the best-performing public school systems in America and in the rest of the world are, in fact, unionized. (Are we never supposed to ask how, if unions are the primary problem, so many unionized schools in America and abroad do so well?) Not surprisingly, these politicians and activists insist they are driven solely by their regard for the nation’s children — and they expect us to ignore the massive amount of money their benefactors (and even the activists personally) stand to make by transforming public education into yet another private profit center. Worse, they ask us also to forget that in the last few years of aggressive “reform” (read: evisceration) of public education, the education gap has actually gotten far worse, with the most highly touted policies put in place now turning the schoolhouse into yet another catalyst of crushing inequality.

Here are the five most prominent of those policies — and how they threaten to make this country even more economically unequal and racially segregated than ever before.

1. Unequal Funding Formulas

A half-century of social science research confirms that factors outside the school — and specifically, poverty — are far more determinative in student achievement than anything that happens inside the school. This is why, as both New York University’s Diane Ravitch and Dissent magazine’s Joanne Barkan note, public schools in America’s wealthiest enclaves consistently rank among the highest achieving in the world.

Knowing that, it stands to reason that schools in the lowest-income areas should receive disproportionately more education funding than schools in high-income areas so that they can combat the systemic out-of-classroom factors that schools in wealthy neighborhoods don’t face. With this extra money, they might be able to fund the so-called “wraparound” services that even reformers like Geoffrey Canada admit are crucial to the success of public schools in high-poverty locales.

Yet, it’s the other way around. As a 2011 U.S. Department of Education report documented, “many high-poverty schools receive less than their fair share of state and local funding” leaving “students in high-poverty schools with fewer resources than schools attended by their wealthier peers.” This inequity is further exacerbated by local property-tax-based education funding formulas that often generate far more resources for wealthy high-property-value school districts than for destitute low-property-value enclaves. Inequality also is intensified by devious new taxpayer-subsidized scholarship programs that, according to the New York Times, “have been twisted to benefit private schools at the expense of the neediest children” in traditional public schools.

Policy-wise, changing such funding formulas to make sure schools in poor areas get more funding than schools in wealthy neighborhoods is fairly straightforward. But, then, the commonsense idea threatens the gated-community ethos of the wealthy and powerful who control our politics. It also fundamentally challenges the core principles of a nation that still likens spreading the wealth to confiscatory socialism. Thus, the idea remains off the table — and consequently the increasingly unequal funding of education now effectively subsidizes a system that is cementing inequality for the long haul.

In practice, that means schools in low-income areas continue to receive comparatively less funding to recruit teachers, upgrade classrooms, reduce class sizes and sustain all the other basics of a good education.

2. Vouchers and Charter Schools

In national politics, private education profiteers and anti-government ideologues have successfully manufactured a debate over privately administered charter schools and private-school vouchers, insisting that, if created all over the nation, they will improve educational achievement. “Manufactured,” though, is the key word — because when it comes to results, there is no debate over what the data show.

Stanford University’s landmark study of charters found that while “17 percent of charter schools reported academic gains that were significantly better than traditional public schools, 37 percent of charter schools showed gains that were worse than their traditional public school counterparts” — meaning that, in total, charters actually harm overall student achievement. (Those results were corroborated by the Education Department’s National Center on Education Statistics.) Likewise, data from the nation’s largest voucher system prove that voucher-subsidized students do not systemically outperform students in traditional public school systems.

These facts, unfortunately, have little — if any — impact on the political rhetoric about education. But, then, at least there’s an ongoing discussion about the academic effectiveness of charters and vouchers. The same cannot be said for how those charter and voucher programs threaten to severely exacerbate racial and socioeconomic inequality.

When it comes to charter schools, Businessweek’s headline says it best: “Segregated Charter Schools Evoke Separate But Equal Era in U.S.” Here’s what we know, as I recounted in a recent newspaper column:

According to a new report from the National Education Policy Center, however, charters “tend to be more racially segregated than traditional public schools” – and in lots of places, they seem to be openly hostile to children who are poor, who are from minority communities or who have special education needs.

A smattering of headlines from across the country tells that story. “Nashville Charter Schools Blasted Over Racial Imbalance,” blared a recent headline in the Tennessean. “Charter Schools Face Discrimination Complaints,” read The Chronicle of Philanthropy. “Colorado Charter Schools Enroll Fewer With Needs,” screamed the Denver Post. “Charter Schools Enrolling Low Number of Poor Students,” reported the Miami Herald. The list goes on and on.

When it comes to vouchers, we can expect much the same if current pro-voucher efforts and a new Romney Administration successfully expand the idea nationwide. We know we can expect this because that’s exactly what happened in the nation that most recently went to a voucher system.

As University of Texas researchers documented in their study of Chile’s national voucher program:

Private-voucher schools have not only not reduced educational inequality, but also … have increased segmentation of the educational system according to (socioeconomic status) of students. Thus, the low and medium-low classes attend public schools, medium and medium-high classes study in private-vouchers, and the elite are educated in private-paid schools.

Why do vouchers increase inequality? Because they typically do not fund the entire private-school tuition bill, nor do they typically force private schools to accept the voucher as the sum total tuition. Not surprisingly, then, the wealthy are able to fill in the tuition gap with their own disposable income, while lower-income families can’t. Consequently, the voucher becomes a taxpayer handout to already middle- and upper-class parents to subsidize their children’s private school education, leaving economically disadvantaged kids in a newly defunded public school. Indeed, as the Texas researchers say, “Chilean parents from medium and medium-high classes were able to pay the additional money required, whereas the poorest parents did not have this choice.”

This very dynamic is already prevalent in the crypto-voucher programs being pioneered in states throughout the country. As the New York Times recently documented, conservative lawmakers have set up scholarship programs that pretend to be charitable endeavors but instead are designed as a tax subsidy for wealthy parents to finance their kids’ private school education. Because poorer families can’t afford those tuitions, even with the tax subsidy, low-income kids often remain in public education systems. Thanks to the way the scholarships divert public money into private schools, those public education systems are further depleted of resources, thus creating yet more educational inequality.

3. The Fee-Based Public School

For public education to be the great social equalizer it is supposed to be, it must limit economic barriers to entry. It must, in other words, be as close to free as possible. That’s why the new move to fee-based public schools is so troubling — it further turns public education into yet another instrument of economic stratification.

As the Wall Street Journal reports, schools across the country are “imposing or boosting fees for everything from enrolling in honors English to riding the bus.”

The fees run the gamut. In Kansas, for instance, one school district has created a $90 across-the-board “participation fee” for all students in order to fund extracurricular activities. In Maryland, it’s special fees for Advanced Placement biology courses. And perhaps worst of all, in Colorado’s largest school district, administrators are throwing kids off school buses until their parents pay a stiff transportation fee.

The move to such regressive fees has been prompted by the conservative movement’s success in draining government revenues, anti-tax politicians’ unwillingness to embrace new levies, and communities’ refusal to embrace measures to make up for budget shortfalls. Left without resources, local school administrators have thus resorted to fees. As one Maryland school official put it: “The reality is that the money has to come from somewhere.”

In the process, the new system is creating a whole new meaning for educational inequality. No longer is the inequity only between poor and rich school districts, it’s now between poor and rich kids within individual schools, themselves. Indeed, if high-income parents can pay the fees, their kids can have access to basic educational services — but when low-income parents can’t pay those fees, their kids are denied those same services.

4. Higher-Education Tuition Increases

For much the same reason, K-12 school administrators are moving their schools to fee-based models, and public universities have been jacking up tuition rates at a pace that far outstrips inflation. In just the last year, for example, tuition at these institutions rose a whopping 8.3 percent as universities sought to make up for legislatures’ huge reductions in higher-education funding.

At the same time, the New York Times reports that both private and public college scholarships have been cut. Additionally, as both Mitt Romney’s Wall Street-centric student loan initiative and Rep. Paul Ryan’s budget prove, federal loans and grants would only become more anemic in a Republican-dominated Washington.

The aggregate result of all this is to make access to higher education even more driven by economic privilege than it has been in the past. If your parents are wealthy and can pay ever higher tuition, you will have access to higher education, which gives you a better chance of higher wages. But if your parents aren’t wealthy and therefore can’t follow Mitt Romney’s request to lend you money, you either can’t go to college and will miss out on those opportunities for career advancement, or you are forced to assume crushing student debt. (No doubt, free college in other industrialized nations is a big part of why those other nations have higher rates of social mobility and lower rates of economic inequality than the United States.)

While it’s certainly true that economic status has always played a role in higher education in America, the key difference today is that economic status now increasingly affects access to public universities, not just private ones. That’s a major shift because those public universities were set up specifically to expand access — and mitigate economic obstacles — to higher education. Now, with financial barriers so high, they are becoming just another instrument of inequality.

5. Differential Tuition Rates Based on Majors

In 21st century America, math, science and business majors often make more money in the job market than their peers in other majors. In that sense, majoring in such subjects can be a means of moving up the economic ladder.

Unfortunately, more and more public universities are instituting regressive fees on those students who want to pursue those majors. As USA Today recently reported:

A growing number of public universities are charging higher tuition for math, science and business programs …

More than 140 public universities now use “differential tuition” plans, up 19% since 2006, according to research from Cornell’s Higher Education Research Institute. That number is increasing as states cut higher-education spending and schools try to pay for expensive technical programs …

Some worry that higher tuition will put off low-income students.

“The fear in all of this is will it lead to people being rationed out of classes?” said Ronald Ehrenberg, the Cornell researcher behind the tuition study.

That fear is legitimate. Already facing high tuition and massive debt, lower-income students are naturally more sensitive to add-on fees than wealthy students. The fees, then, serve to create a powerful deterrent to low-income students to major in precisely the fields that typically generate higher post-college incomes.

Ultimately, just like K-12 fees transform economic inequality into a factor inside individual schools, so to do “differential tuition” rates. In this case, low-income students face not just barriers to a given set of more expensive private schools, they now face new economic barriers to particular studies within the schools they somehow manage to afford. And because of that, low-income students will have an even harder time than rich kids in getting a post-college job that pays a good wage.
David Sirota

David Sirota is a best-selling author of the new book "Back to Our Future: How the 1980s Explain the World We Live In Now." He hosts the morning show on AM760 in Colorado. E-mail him at ds@davidsirota.com, follow him on Twitter @davidsirota or visit his website at www.davidsirota.com.

chiefzilla1501
06-02-2012, 12:41 PM
This is how the progressive right will destroy the private school system—through the back door with vouchers.

Once that starts, if a school doesn't have a PC curriculum in place, they will eventually or the vouchers will be witheld. There's no gaurantee there will always be someone on the right running any particular govt to protect against such actions. The Feds run this type of ideological control with their own funds. All the schools want the money, 'er gravy train, so they will fall into line.

Sounds good on paper....but other consequences lurk. This is the nature of anything funded by govt.

Then what is the alternative?

Bewbies
06-02-2012, 12:57 PM
This is how the progressive right will destroy the private school system—through the back door with vouchers.

Once that starts, if a school doesn't have a PC curriculum in place, they will eventually or the vouchers will be witheld. There's no gaurantee there will always be someone on the right running any particular govt to protect against such actions. The Feds run this type of ideological control with their own funds. All the schools want the money, 'er gravy train, so they will fall into line.

Sounds good on paper....but other consequences lurk. This is the nature of anything funded by govt.

Private schools have the choice of whether or not to participate?

Thig Lyfe
06-02-2012, 01:13 PM
At Eternity Christian Academy in Westlake, pastor-turned-principal Marie Carrier hopes to secure extra space to enroll 135 voucher students, though she now has room for just a few dozen. Her first- through eighth-grade students sit in cubicles for much of the day and move at their own pace through Christian workbooks, such as a beginning science text that explains "what God made" on each of the six days of creation. They are not exposed to the theory of evolution.

"We try to stay away from all those things that might confuse our children," Carrier said.

It's the 21st century, y'all!

Cannibal
06-02-2012, 01:18 PM
Other schools approved for state-funded vouchers use social studies texts warning that liberals threaten global prosperity; Bible-based math books that don't cover modern concepts such as set theory; and biology texts built around refuting evolution.

Bible based math books???

healthpellets
06-02-2012, 02:14 PM
Other schools approved for state-funded vouchers use social studies texts warning that liberals threaten global prosperity; Bible-based math books that don't cover modern concepts such as set theory; and biology texts built around refuting evolution.


Her first- through eighth-grade students sit in cubicles for much of the day and move at their own pace through Christian workbooks, such as a beginning science text that explains "what God made" on each of the six days of creation. They are not exposed to the theory of evolution.

"We try to stay away from all those things that might confuse our children," Carrier said.

Other schools approved for state-funded vouchers use social studies texts warning that liberals threaten global prosperity; Bible-based math books that don't cover modern concepts such as set theory; and biology texts built around refuting evolution.

Good. Bout time someone started using state tax dollars to teach truths about science and god.

Backcountry folks are backcountry.

BucEyedPea
06-02-2012, 02:24 PM
Yeah, how does this differ from the argument that government loans have made colleges bloated and ineffective?

Well, the money has already been spent on K-12 education already. You do have a point, should there be an exodus out of the public schools, the increased demand on the private schools would likely lead to tuition increases for another unintended consequence.

I would prefer a tuition tax credit but even that could be subject to some controls. However, a tuition tax credit wouldn't pay the full amount. If they had that where I am it would have only paid 25% of my kid's tuition at her private school that I used from Grade 1- 10. It would have paid half what I paid for her private kindergarten which was at a less expensive school.

BucEyedPea
06-02-2012, 02:28 PM
Private schools have the choice of whether or not to participate?

I don't know how it would be set up everywhere...but usually most humans want the money and the extra public (aka money) it brings. So I see it likely that more will fall into line than won't just based on what has happened with federal funds. I recall at my kid's former private school they really liked this idea of choice. I pointed out to them, that what ever the state funds it controls and they'd lose their independence which is what made them a better school. It didn't seem to penetrate much though. Money corrupts even good people with noble intentions.

And you can bet the left will use the courts to strike this all down. The bottom line will remain—you get what you pay for.

BucEyedPea
06-02-2012, 02:35 PM
Bible based math books???

7 is God's number; 6 is Lucifer's. I figure it would be something like that. Or maybe they have word problems such as:

If God sent 10 angels to earth and recalled 3, how many did God leave on earth?

Hey, if the learn the concept it doesn't matter what they use to apply it.

banyon
06-02-2012, 02:54 PM
I assume this will be as successful as the "for-profit" university system has been.

Maximizing shareholder value = = = children's best interests.

clearly no conflict there at all.

banyon
06-02-2012, 02:55 PM
7 is God's number; 6 is Lucifer's. I figure it would be something like that. Or maybe they have word problems such as:

If God sent 10 angels to earth and recalled 3, how many did God leave on earth?

Hey, if the learn the concept it doesn't matter what they use to apply it.

Yeah, nothing helps kids learn math like trying to get them to think about Ragnarok and Hell while they are doing it.

BIG_DADDY
06-02-2012, 04:27 PM
This is a concept that is WAY overdue. Our public school system is an abysmal failure. As soon as anyone wants to experiment with change all your BIG GOVERNMENT we know what's best for everyone socialist pigs jump in with all their outrage. I think that it's great that they are finally taking the power of out of the hands of the government and the teachers unions and giving it back to the parents. That alone should be enough reason for anyone to support this. I sure wish I had a little help in getting my boy his education.

BucEyedPea
06-02-2012, 04:55 PM
This is still govt Big Daddy. It'll wreck the private system as the govt wrecked the local community schools.

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 05:50 PM
This is a concept that is WAY overdue. Our public school system is an abysmal failure. As soon as anyone wants to experiment with change all your BIG GOVERNMENT we know what's best for everyone socialist pigs jump in with all their outrage. I think that it's great that they are finally taking the power of out of the hands of the government and the teachers unions and giving it back to the parents. That alone should be enough reason for anyone to support this. I sure wish I had a little help in getting my boy his education.

It's funny how it's all about big govt unless you're a gay man wanting to get married or a rape victim wanting an abortion.

BIG_DADDY
06-02-2012, 09:37 PM
This is still govt Big Daddy. It'll wreck the private system as the govt wrecked the local community schools.

Well we will get a chance to see if that is the case. Staying with the unionised present path we have been on for so long with all of it's failures has no chance.

BIG_DADDY
06-02-2012, 09:38 PM
It's funny how it's all about big govt unless you're a gay man wanting to get married or a rape victim wanting an abortion.

See you are having trouble staying on topic again.

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 09:48 PM
See you are having trouble staying on topic again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you made the topic BIG GOVERNMENT.

Or was that some fancy talk from one of them privitized schools.

Mmm-huh.
Suddenly, I feel like french fried tators.

Easy 6
06-02-2012, 09:52 PM
Yeah, nothing helps kids learn math like trying to get them to think about Ragnarok and Hell while they are doing it.

LMAO if thats not true, nothing is LMAO

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 09:57 PM
LMAO if thats not true, nothing is LMAO

If Sally bought 50 Bibles and Tom already had 40 Bibles and they were planning on taking them to church in the morning, how many will the church have in the morning?


A: The Church will have the 40, because Sally is a whore who has had an abortion and God no longer loves her and the church won't accept her Scarlet Letter Bible.

healthpellets
06-02-2012, 10:39 PM
Where in the f*ck does the state of Louisiana get off funding "education" that is merely theology disguised as "science"?

It's f*cking disgusting. Because kids aren't f*cked up enough, we're gonna go and give them some distorted world view.

Seriously. I don't think Louisanna is gonna climb of the educational black hole by contracting out education to a bunch of crazy loons. But hey, good luck with that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/state-education-rankings-_n_894528.html

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 10:41 PM
Where in the f*ck does the state of Louisiana get off funding "education" that is merely theology disguised as "science"?

It's f*cking disgusting. Because kids aren't f*cked up enough, we're gonna go and give them some distorted world view.

Seriously. I don't think Louisanna is gonna climb of the educational black hole by contracting out education to a bunch of crazy loons. But hey, good luck with that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/state-education-rankings-_n_894528.html

It truly is and I wonder the damage that it's going to do if these kids leave their sects.

BIG_DADDY
06-02-2012, 11:17 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you made the topic BIG GOVERNMENT.

Or was that some fancy talk from one of them privitized schools.

Mmm-huh.
Suddenly, I feel like french fried tators.

Yep. you're having problems again. The subject was about taking the absolute control of how our kids are educated in our presently failing government run system and empowering parents with alternatives. It isn't about rape, abortion and gay marriage. The fact that you didn't grasp that is disturbing.

Brock
06-02-2012, 11:20 PM
The schools aren't failing, the parents are.

BIG_DADDY
06-02-2012, 11:28 PM
For the record I send my son to a private Christian school that absolutely smokes the public system for lunch and they do it at a lower cost too. To insinuate that these kids are suddenly going to miss out on a real education because they are not in the failing government/unionized run system is preposterous but I see it isn’t stopping any of you from posting your diatribe. Maybe the desperate gay spin wasn’t such a bad idea after all.

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 11:30 PM
Yep. you're having problems again. The subject was about taking the absolute control of how our kids are educated in our presently failing government run system and empowering parents with alternatives. It isn't about rape, abortion and gay marriage. The fact that you didn't grasp that is disturbing.

The fact that you don't grasp is what is disturbing. You throw around big government as a bad thing exclusively when it doesn't suit your purpose as identified in the examples I provided.

Furthermore, I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE for you to explain to me how a school whose curriculum is about the religious view of everything is going to better prepare a child for the real world than the current curriculum.

BIG_DADDY
06-02-2012, 11:30 PM
The schools aren't failing, the parents are.

That's quaint.

BIG_DADDY
06-02-2012, 11:32 PM
The fact that you don't grasp is what is disturbing. You throw around big government as a bad thing exclusively when it doesn't suit your purpose as identified in the examples I provided.

Furthermore, I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE for you to explain to me how a school whose curriculum is about the religious view of everything is going to better prepare a child for the real world than the current curriculum.

No, I put goverment in as it applied to the subject. Frankly at this point your posts don't warrant a response.

Brock
06-02-2012, 11:35 PM
That's quaint.

It's also true. Parents like you crack me up.

Brock
06-02-2012, 11:36 PM
No, I put goverment in as it applied to the subject. Frankly at this point your posts don't warrant a response.

that's because you won't address the question he asked you.

how is little billy more prepared for a productive life by learing about creationism as a science?

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 11:36 PM
No, I put goverment in as it applied to the subject. Frankly at this point your posts don't warrant a response.

Here I'll help you clear it up, since maybe I'm unclear.

Government should prevent abortions, government should prevent homosexual marriages, however, government should stay out of education because "big government" is a bad thing. Amirite?


"Frankly at this point your posts don't warrant a response."-Translation: ugh, ugh, ugh?

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 11:39 PM
It's also true. Parents like you crack me up.

BTW, Brock, I can't agree with you more. A teacher has limited resources and a classroom full of kids. A teacher cannot spend a day exclusively with a child to make sure they "get" it. A parent can. Not to mention a parent's job is to prepare that child for adulthood.

Unfortunately, too many parents think it's a teachers job to educate their children. They provide the plan, it's up to the student and parental intervention to fulfill that plan.

Bewbies
06-02-2012, 11:41 PM
The schools aren't failing, the parents are.

Yes, our education system, especially our public schools, have never been better.

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 11:43 PM
Yes, our education system, especially our public schools, have never been better.

Please provide support for your statement. I don't know if that's sarcasm or not.

Bewbies
06-02-2012, 11:43 PM
Here I'll help you clear it up, since maybe I'm unclear.

Government should prevent abortions, government should prevent homosexual marriages, however, government should stay out of education because "big government" is a bad thing. Amirite?


"Frankly at this point your posts don't warrant a response."-Translation: ugh, ugh, ugh?

Technically is was government that allowed us to kill babies.

Bewbies
06-02-2012, 11:45 PM
Please provide support for your statement. I don't know if that's sarcasm or not.

LMAO

Are you a member of the teacher union?

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 11:45 PM
Technically is was government that allowed us to kill babies.

Difference of view. Technically the government states that it is not illegal. Is it also the government that allows us to breathe air, drink water, or fart?

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 11:46 PM
LMAO

Are you a member of the teacher union?

No sir. My fathers a teacher, my cousin's a teacher, and my aunt is a teacher. You know why most walk away? The parents.

Bewbies
06-02-2012, 11:51 PM
No sir. My fathers a teacher, my cousin's a teacher, and my aunt is a teacher. You know why most walk away? The parents.

I don't doubt that. My friends that are teachers tell me the same thing.

By and large teachers aren't the problem.

What we are "teaching", how we are teaching it, and the lack of standards are the problems. The system is the problem, not the people trying to indoctinate the system into kids...

J Diddy
06-02-2012, 11:54 PM
I don't doubt that. My friends that are teachers tell me the same thing.

By and large teachers aren't the problem.

What we are "teaching", how we are teaching it, and the lack of standards are the problems. The system is the problem, not the people trying to indoctinate the system into kids...

Then fix the system. Don't give every crackpot the ability to teach asinine theories that are at best fictional, and at worst dangerous, on the government dime.

La literatura
06-02-2012, 11:56 PM
What we are "teaching", how we are teaching it, and the lack of standards are the problems. The system is the problem, not the people trying to indoctinate the system into kids...

There are plenty of standards, what is being taught is fine, and teachers are taught how to teach much better than previous generations.

Maybe merit pay would yield better results, though. I am probably in favor of this.

Bewbies
06-03-2012, 12:01 AM
Then fix the system. Don't give every crackpot the ability to teach asinine theories that are at best fictional, and at worst dangerous, on the government dime.

You're reading into the anti-religious bent of the article.

If a parent wants their kid to learn that, who are you or who I to say we know what's best for their kid?

Isn't the option of lots of schools of varying quality better for both parents and kids than being forced into the only school by your house?

J Diddy
06-03-2012, 12:10 AM
You're reading into the anti-religious bent of the article.

If a parent wants their kid to learn that, who are you or who I to say we know what's best for their kid?

Isn't the option of lots of schools of varying quality better for both parents and kids than being forced into the only school by your house?

I can not speak as to what's best in the opinion of the parents for their child, however I can speak as to what my taxes are paying for in terms of that education.

Bewbies
06-03-2012, 12:21 AM
I can not speak as to what's best in the opinion of the parents for their child, however I can speak as to what my taxes are paying for in terms of that education.

I think our government has shown your statement is not true. (though you should have a say in how tax $$ is spent)

BIG_DADDY
06-03-2012, 12:52 AM
that's because you won't address the question he asked you.

how is little billy more prepared for a productive life by learing about creationism as a science?

I would consider that an elective/preference issue that should be in the hands of the parent, not the government. The facts are that the fundamental education provided within that system smoke what is provided from our government/unions and they do it at a cheaper price. Using your ideals in questioning how is little billy more prepared for a productive life going through your government/unionized system? He isn’t, it isn’t even close.

BIG_DADDY
06-03-2012, 01:03 AM
The only reason the unions are freaking about this isn't because of the few jobs that will be lost in this state, it's because they already know how little it will take to improve on their abysmal failure. If this is a success it could have huge ramifications for the entire educational system on all levels nationally.

BIG_DADDY
06-03-2012, 01:07 AM
It's also true. Parents like you crack me up.

When logic fails your positon resort back to personal attacks. It's pretty much you MO at this point.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 01:09 AM
Well we will get a chance to see if that is the case. Staying with the unionised present path we have been on for so long with all of it's failures has no chance.

I all am for breaking up the unions particularly the NEA. The left has owned education for too long.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 01:10 AM
The schools aren't failing, the parents are.

And the parents went to the same public schools!

JohnnyV13
06-03-2012, 01:22 AM
Bible based math problem.


If Johnny spent 1 hour 30 minutes watching a Pat Robertson lecture

20 minutes saying the Hail Mary

15 minutes saying the Our father

1 hour reading a creationism textbook

45 minutes reading a bible history text

20 minutes reading "Introduction to theological reasoning"


How much total time did johnny spend furthering his education?

scroll down for answer....
























answer: zero.

Reaper16
06-03-2012, 01:32 AM
The schools aren't failing, the parents are.

TRUTH

healthpellets
06-03-2012, 09:07 AM
For the record I send my son to a private Christian school that absolutely smokes the public system for lunch and they do it at a lower cost too. To insinuate that these kids are suddenly going to miss out on a real education because they are not in the failing government/unionized run system is preposterous but I see it isn’t stopping any of you from posting your diatribe. Maybe the desperate gay spin wasn’t such a bad idea after all.

That's fine...what what are they teaching him? Because if they're teaching him falsehoods, then what's the point of education?

Cave Johnson
06-03-2012, 09:29 AM
"We try to stay away from all those things that might confuse our children," Carrier said.

Yay ignorance! That'll help produce kids ready to compete in the 19th century.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 10:13 AM
TRUTH

No, it isn't true. It's a no responsibility attitude that the schools use as a cop out to not engage in any serious self-examination. It's a hey "look over there" game, don't look at us. I am not saying parents are also a factor, I mean afterall, they do put their kids in public schools thinking their good and safe. Some parents just don't know what is going on to do enough about it. They're like sheep believing what their govt or school tells them. They're not all dysfunctional though.

I can gauranUtee, that parents who get too involved get called "helicopter parents." The poster you quoted and agree with used the same label on me. So this is a damned if you do and damned if you don't thing with Brock. Even Kotter admitted if a parent is too involved they don't like it. Sounds like the schools just want parents to obey. More conformity all around—the real product of public schooling. Yes, it's schooling not education.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 10:18 AM
When logic fails your positon resort back to personal attacks. It's pretty much you MO at this point.

Yeah, plus he blames the parents in this thread but called a parent like me, earlier, a "helicopter parent" for helping my own kid out.

Reaper16
06-03-2012, 10:22 AM
They key word that you used, BEP, is "too." Too involved = helicopter parent. Involved = wonderful.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 10:34 AM
They key word that you used, BEP, is "too." Too involved = helicopter parent. Involved = wonderful.

Yeah, well both are vague. I remember in the late 90's this thing going on in my neighborhood school of parents having to be the teachers. They'd do hardly any learning all day in school but there were lots of social activities like taking them roller-skating....but then the parents were expected to do most of the school work that could have been done in school. It was a joke. There were involved parents around me who thought it was a joke too. Thank god my kid wasn't in that factory of conformity.

Fact is the public schools teach less these days and it's taught less well. That's been deliberate and it precedes most issues as it comes from the top. Yet, they're the ones with all the hi-level degrees. So they leave the school work, as in teaching, to parents. Parents who may not remember some things or know the material well at all.

Sorry, how teachers are trained these days with an overemphasis on psychology and social development over academics is part of the problem. The biggest part. If public schools are erected with the promise to educate then the lions share of responsibility is on them. Then set clear guides on what they want parents to do to back it up, if they want their child too succeed. These can be published. Such things are pretty simple. Supervise homework to see if it's done, report any difficulties. For young children it may just be doing word cards for homework at night.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 10:39 AM
Reaper, at my kid's former private school of ten years, the contract has some things the parents are expected to do for the program to be successful. Public schools can't do this....or I don't think they do at least. Public schools can't can a kid or parent as easily if that's not being followed.

J Diddy
06-03-2012, 11:07 AM
Yeah, well both are vague. I remember in the late 90's this thing going on in my neighborhood school of parents having to be the teachers. They'd do hardly any learning all day in school but there were lots of social activities like taking them roller-skating....but then the parents were expected to do most of the school work that could have been done in school. It was a joke. There were involved parents around me who thought it was a joke too. Thank god my kid wasn't in that factory of conformity.

Fact is the public schools teach less these days and it's taught less well. That's been deliberate and it precedes most issues as it comes from the top. Yet, they're the ones with all the hi-level degrees. So they leave the school work, as in teaching, to parents. Parents who may not remember some things or know the material well at all.

Sorry, how teachers are trained these days with an overemphasis on psychology and social development over academics is part of the problem. The biggest part. If public schools are erected with the promise to educate then the lions share of responsibility is on them. Then set clear guides on what they want parents to do to back it up, if they want their child too succeed. These can be published. Such things are pretty simple. Supervise homework to see if it's done, report any difficulties. For young children it may just be doing word cards for homework at night.


An over emphasis of psychology and social development over academics? Do you believe the shit that you write?

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 11:10 AM
An over emphasis of psychology and social development over academics? Do you believe the shit that you write?

No I don't "believe" it. I know. Only the ignorant would post what you did. That's based on research and study which is out there on how the affective domain now dominates education. Just because you're not "educated" on the matter thoroughly but buy the pablum on it doesn't mean it's "shit." Go read "Schools 2000." There are people out there who monitor this stuff. I used to be one of them. I used to spy on schools to pull syllabi and then report them to the press. I don't need your snark Mr. Sheep.

J Diddy
06-03-2012, 11:19 AM
No I don't "believe" it. I know. That's based on research and study which is out there on how the affective domain now dominates education. Just because you're not "educated" on the matter thoroughly but buy the pablum on it doesn't mean it's "shit." I don't need your snark Mr. Sheep.

You don't know shit, which is quite common, from your posts. Not one time in 3 children have I had a teacher call and say, "your child isn't fitting in or your child just isn't feeling so good today about himself." To take that even farther, this year my son's teacher called me and said, "quit helping your child with his homework. We need to see how he's grasping the concepts." I wasn't even helping that much, just with principles of math.

You're like Snoop Dogg, ya know. Instead of making up words to match a rhyme, you make up logic to match your agenda. Which virtually every member here denounces as full on crazy ass talk.

In terms of education on this matter, I've got children in public school, so I know what I see. I don't need your false sources to become "educated" on the matter. I live it.

Oh and btw I could give less than 1/10 of a fuck what you think of my "snark"and how much you "need" it.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 11:29 AM
Nope. You're projecting.

J Diddy
06-03-2012, 11:56 AM
Nope. You're projecting.


Hey broken record, are you sure I wasn't being a strawman?

Idiot.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 11:59 AM
I see you, once again, have ceded the argument.

Dave Lane
06-03-2012, 12:03 PM
Bible based math books???

There would be some great calculus work on how Noah sexed and carried 300,000 species of beetles. Or the weight to buoyancy ratio with 3 million species of animals in general.

Cannibal
06-03-2012, 12:11 PM
There would be some great calculus work on how Noah sexed and carried 300,000 species of beetles. Or the weight to buoyancy ratio with 3 million species of animals in general.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the bible math curriculum will not be that detailed. LMAO

J Diddy
06-03-2012, 12:13 PM
I see you, once again, have ceded the argument.

Yes in your world of delusion, I have ceded the argument.

My point: I live this world and see nothing of what you say.
Your point: I have done extensive research and am an expert. Without linking any extensive research, how am I to accept you as an expert? Especially when every argument ends with you calling someone a sheep, a strawman, or that they are projecting?

Then you complain of name calling.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 12:18 PM
Did you say something?

WilliamTheIrish
06-03-2012, 12:29 PM
As we've had these debates on this forum hundreds of times, I'll only add my personal beliefs based on what I've observed with my own children as they went through the system.

Grades 1-5: both kids went to a private Catholic school.

It was a small parish that ran on limited funds. They were taught the basics including "the golden rule". I went to my first parent teacher conference to find my son's desk was placed right next to the teacher's desk. Apparently, this young lady that sat next to him bothered him or he liked her and didn't want to admit it. Still not sure of the case. Anyway, she reached for something on his desk and my son jammed the sharp end of a pencil into the palm of her hand. (ouch) This was followed by swift justice from Sister Marjorie to my son's backside and a call to to his father.

Both kids thrived in that system. Lots of caring and lots of involved parents. This parish had no phys-ed as there wasn't a gym. And I wanted them to have more choices. So we moved them out to public schools for the rest of their education.

There was freedom in the PS system they weren't used to having. But with the base of reading, writing and arithmetic they both thrived and enjoyed the greater opportunities.
In the end, I agree completely that the demise of public education is less of a function of the schools and more a function of the lack of parenting.

I live in Fresno, CA. Yesterday I was talking to a retired teacher who said: "Kids in this (Fresno Unified) district will tell you "FUCK YOU" to your face and be back from the principals office and sitting in their desk within 20 minutes, with little or no punishment".

Try that shit in Clovis school district and you're done. Zero tolerance in that district. At any age. You're gone and you don't come back. Ever. That's an award winning district in the state and nationally.

I'm no fan of public education. Way too much status quo with poor results.

But shitty parents with no involvement who send them off to what is essentially a free day care is far more harmful to society than the school district.

BIG_DADDY
06-03-2012, 12:36 PM
I see you, once again, have ceded the argument.

I see the whole denial, divert, spin, personal attack followed by name calling program is still in full force around here.

Our government/unionised school system is complete joke, that should be self-evident. It gets addressed by every administration as a top priority because what we get for what we pay per student is the worst of the worst.

All I know is I save people tax dollars by sending my kid to a christian private school that is off the charts for producing top students and they do it for less than half the price of what we all pay to send a child to school in the present system. They also have a full athletic program and music program. He is at the top of his class, physically fit, confident, empathetic and extremely popular. If that makes me a joke as a parent is some people's eyes then so be it.

J Diddy
06-03-2012, 12:43 PM
I see the whole denial, divert, spin, personal attack followed by name calling program is still in full force around here.
And you are just as guilty of it as the next guy.
Our government/unionised school system is complete joke, that should be self-evident. It gets addressed by every administration as a top priority because what we get for what we pay per student is the worst of the worst.
I disagree that it is a complete joke. There are schools that thrive and schools that don't. The majority of which that don't are larger cities with high crime areas, over population etc.
All I know is I save people tax dollars by sending my kid to a christian private school that is off the charts for producing top students and they do it for less than half the price of what we all pay to send a child to school in the present system. They also have a full athletic program and music program. He is at the top of his class, physically fit, confident, empathetic and extremely popular. If that makes me a joke as a parent is some people's eyes then so be it.

I'm happy that you made a choice for your child and are liking that choice. Sounds like it is working really well for you, but it won't work well for me as that I am of a belief that organized religion is a huge problem with society today. I certainly don't want those to be charged with education of my child. I prefer my child be exposed to an education format without the inclusion of someone's religious views.

Reaper16
06-03-2012, 12:50 PM
Yeah, well both are vague. I remember in the late 90's this thing going on in my neighborhood school of parents having to be the teachers. They'd do hardly any learning all day in school but there were lots of social activities like taking them roller-skating....but then the parents were expected to do most of the school work that could have been done in school. It was a joke. There were involved parents around me who thought it was a joke too. Thank god my kid wasn't in that factory of conformity.

Fact is the public schools teach less these days and it's taught less well. That's been deliberate and it precedes most issues as it comes from the top. Yet, they're the ones with all the hi-level degrees. So they leave the school work, as in teaching, to parents. Parents who may not remember some things or know the material well at all.

Sorry, how teachers are trained these days with an overemphasis on psychology and social development over academics is part of the problem. The biggest part. If public schools are erected with the promise to educate then the lions share of responsibility is on them. Then set clear guides on what they want parents to do to back it up, if they want their child too succeed. These can be published. Such things are pretty simple. Supervise homework to see if it's done, report any difficulties. For young children it may just be doing word cards for homework at night.

That's fair to me. I don't really see anything wrong with outlining what is expected of parents. That would be helpful.

The term "helicopter parents" comes about from the parents who don't let their kids have any responsibility. Nothing is the fault of their child. There's a lot of these parents, unfortunately. Even at the college level: I get emails or phone calls occasionally from parents who want to dispute a grade given to their child (usually in cases of a B where the parents are looking for an A). The student themselves don't contact me in this instance, because they've learned that their parents will do everything for them.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 12:52 PM
That's fair to me. I don't really see anything wrong with outlining what is expected of parents. That would be helpful.

The term "helicopter parents" comes about from the parents who don't let their kids have any responsibility. Nothing is the fault of their child. There's a lot of these parents, unfortunately. Even at the college level: I get emails or phone calls occasionally from parents who want to dispute a grade given to their child (usually in cases of a B where the parents are looking for an A). The student themselves don't contact me in this instance, because they've learned that their parents will do everything for them.

I know what a helicopter parent is.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 12:55 PM
I see the whole denial, divert, spin, personal attack followed by name calling program is still in full force around here.


J Diddy is probably the most prolific abuser currently. He simply cannot articulate an argument much at all. Just calls anyone he disagrees with a nut, even when he hasn't even understood a post. Typical lefty.

J Diddy
06-03-2012, 01:20 PM
J Diddy is probably the most prolific abuser currently. He simply cannot articulate an argument much at all. Just calls anyone he disagrees with a nut, even when he hasn't even understood a post. Typical lefty.

Do you masturbate when you post about me? Sorry, off topic, but I was just curious.

Not every one I disagree with I call a nut, just a select few. You being the most prominent.

Partially because a lot of your theories are so far out there that I have a hard time thinking that you are serious when you write your tripe. Mostly because I am of the opinion that you are bat shit crazy.

BIG_DADDY
06-03-2012, 01:38 PM
I'm happy that you made a choice for your child and are liking that choice. Sounds like it is working really well for you, but it won't work well for me as that I am of a belief that organized religion is a huge problem with society today. I certainly don't want those to be charged with education of my child. I prefer my child be exposed to an education format without the inclusion of someone's religious views.

Funny how people's perceptions differ. I thought I was respectful throughout and stayed on subject pretty damn well. I think if you pay attention you will see that is the case the vast majority of the time.

Back at the ranch, it sounds like we are on the same page on some level. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. You are letting your hatred for religion blind you of the potential here. Maybe you prefer a school that is tech-centric or has an emphasis on psychology, athletics or the arts. The beauty here is you would have that freedom. Maybe it's not what you want it's what you don't want. Exposure to any kind of god, a school that allows the inmates to run the asylum or that imposes run and snitch policies. Whatever, you would have that freedom too. What do you care if Babu wants to send his child to a school that teaches his child to pray to demi-gods?

Dave Lane
06-03-2012, 01:49 PM
Funny how people's perceptions differ. I thought I was respectful throughout and stayed on subject pretty damn well. I think if you pay attention you will see that is the case the vast majority of the time.

Back at the ranch, it sounds like we are on the same page on some level. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. You are letting your hatred for religion blind you of the potential here. Maybe you prefer a school that is tech-centric or has an emphasis on psychology, athletics or the arts. The beauty here is you would have that freedom. Maybe it's not what you want it's what you don't want. Exposure to any kind of god, a school that allows the inmates to run the asylum or that imposes run and snitch policies. Whatever, you would have that freedom too. What do you care if Babu wants to send his child to a school that teaches his child to pray to demi-gods?

To me religion running school systems is tantamount to letting the fox in the hen house.

Just so you can see it a bit more clearly, what if The Democratic party started schools taking vouchers and the Muslims as well. Say they did it as a "community service" and did it for free. Would you mind a large percentage of the population in your area including many of your neighbors attending these schools?

Dave Lane
06-03-2012, 01:52 PM
Plus the whole idea of vouchers is stupid anyway. You had the kid you pay for them in full if you don't want to take advantage of the free educational institutions. I don't get a couple vouchers for not having kids.

I am happy to see at least BD is doing that and I think can provide an offset to early childhood indoctrination.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 02:08 PM
Do you masturbate when you post about me? Sorry, off topic, but I was just curious.

Not every one I disagree with I call a nut, just a select few. You being the most prominent.

Partially because a lot of your theories are so far out there that I have a hard time thinking that you are serious when you write your tripe. Mostly because I am of the opinion that you are bat shit crazy.

Another example of you being a CC dumbazz.


http://tubatv.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/red_forman.jpg?w=614

BIG_DADDY
06-03-2012, 02:21 PM
To me religion running school systems is tantamount to letting the fox in the hen house.

Just so you can see it a bit more clearly, what if The Democratic party started schools taking vouchers and the Muslims as well. Say they did it as a "community service" and did it for free. Would you mind a large percentage of the population in your area including many of your neighbors attending these schools?

I just want parents to have the freedoms to make their own choices. I have no business telling Achmed what school he should send his kid to.

The only reason to support the current system is that you are a big time lefty and you love unions having free access to young minds so it’s worth paying twice as much for half the education.
The point I was trying to make by talking about the school my kid goes to was two-fold.
1. Giving people the freedom to put their child in a school that has a religious base in no way effects that schools ability to give that child a top notch education.
2. The school my boy goes to provides that top notch education with a full athletic and music program at half the cost of our present system. If they can do it the system can be duplicated with or without religious overtones. Face the facts, we are being raped and they are failing our kids. That is an awefully high price to pay just to hate on some Christians.

vailpass
06-03-2012, 02:23 PM
To me religion running school systems is tantamount to letting the fox in the hen house.

Just so you can see it a bit more clearly, what if The Democratic party started schools taking vouchers and the Muslims as well. Say they did it as a "community service" and did it for free. Would you mind a large percentage of the population in your area including many of your neighbors attending these schools?

LMAO You are such an idiot.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 02:28 PM
Not every one I disagree with I call a nut, just a select few. You being the most prominent.

Partially because a lot of your theories are so far out there that I have a hard time thinking that you are serious when you write your tripe. Mostly because I am of the opinion that you are bat shit crazy.

This is more evidence that you cannot refute, articulate or deal with novel ideas that are challenging to the status quo. You can only deal with ideas just a little bit different than your own reality. Like I said, CC material. It also shows how far to the left your positions are since those on that side think any ideas from the anti-socialist pro-freedom right are "nutty." This is typical of the left and is no different than Soviet-style tactics in dealing with dissent. You are the kind of person that would have labeled our Founders, or Framers, the same way. ROFL

J Diddy
06-03-2012, 02:35 PM
This is more evidence that you cannot refute, articulate or deal with novel ideas that are challenging to the status quo. You can only deal with ideas just a little bit different than your own reality. Like I said, CC material. It also shows is how far to the left your positions are since those on that side think any ideas from the anti-socialist pro-freedom right are "nutty." This is typical of the left and is no different than Soviet-style tactics in dealing with dissent. You are the kind of person that would have labeled our Founders, or Framers, the same way. ROFL

So I mean, was that a yes, you do masturbate when you think about me?

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 02:36 PM
Did you say something, dumbass?

I think you started following me.

J Diddy
06-03-2012, 02:50 PM
Did you say something, dumbass?

I think you started following me.

So frustrated that you resort to name calling?

Priceless.

ROFL

All right. I've had enough, I'll leave your stupid ass alone.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 02:50 PM
Huh?

healthpellets
06-03-2012, 04:09 PM
I just want parents to have the freedoms to make their own choices. I have no business telling Achmed what school he should send his kid to.

The only reason to support the current system is that you are a big time lefty and you love unions having free access to young minds so it’s worth paying twice as much for half the education.
The point I was trying to make by talking about the school my kid goes to was two-fold.
1. Giving people the freedom to put their child in a school that has a religious base in no way effects that schools ability to give that child a top notch education.
2. The school my boy goes to provides that top notch education with a full athletic and music program at half the cost of our present system. If they can do it the system can be duplicated with or without religious overtones. Face the facts, we are being raped and they are failing our kids. That is an awefully high price to pay just to hate on some Christians.

Fine. Can we at least impose standards on the private schools be subsidized with public dollars? Like, maybe, not teaching f*cking retarded things like the earth was formed 6000 years ago by some mysterious force?

Kthanksbye.

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 04:23 PM
Fine. Can we at least impose standards on the private schools be subsidized with public dollars? Like, maybe, not teaching f*cking retarded things like the earth was formed 6000 years ago by some mysterious force?

Kthanksbye.

Evidence that state money will be followed by state controls.

healthpellets
06-03-2012, 04:47 PM
Evidence that state money will be followed by state controls.

Let's hope so. :banghead:

BucEyedPea
06-03-2012, 06:15 PM
Let's hope so. :banghead:

Except education, and that means alternative viewpoints, should be free—not thought control by the state. So the folks that like this under the mantle of freedom don't get that afterall.

This is afterall, Louisiana, so it reflects their values and provide an opportunity to experiment for the other states as to how this works out.

WilliamTheIrish
06-03-2012, 06:19 PM
I went to the school mentioned in the article and graduated from Dunham in 2002. One of the things we were taught in biology instead of evolution was that you could fertilize chicken and turkey eggs using 9 volt batteries and needles. The teacher called it the touch of god. If this is were our tax money is going for education we might as well all learn mandarin now.

LMAO

This is from the comments section of Reuters article.

WilliamTheIrish
06-03-2012, 06:45 PM
Let's hope so. :banghead:

I think the article went out of it's way in order to show you the most radical private school(s).

But I hope it's a success. There is no guarantee it will succeed. And if state funding is cut, private education better be prepared to make it work with less than 8800 per pupil.

There a lot of potential pitfalls here. However, the decline of public education has been documented for the last three decades. So at least trying something new shouldn't be looked upon as a scourge.

Bewbies
06-03-2012, 08:47 PM
I think the article went out of it's way in order to show you the most radical private school(s).

But I hope it's a success. There is no guarantee it will succeed. And if state funding is cut, private education better be prepared to make it work with less than 8800 per pupil.

There a lot of potential pitfalls here. However, the decline of public education has been documented for the last three decades. So at least trying something new shouldn't be looked upon as a scourge.

Logic and reason are not allowed in this thread.

Okie_Apparition
06-03-2012, 10:13 PM
Quote:
I went to the school mentioned in the article and graduated from Dunham in 2002. One of the things we were taught in biology instead of evolution was that you could fertilize chicken and turkey eggs using 9 volt batteries and needles. The teacher called it the touch of god. If this is were our tax money is going for education we might as well all learn mandarin now.

what

Amnorix
06-05-2012, 07:56 AM
Just focusing on this one school in particular, this isn't school, this is a joke. Isn't there some kind of certification requirement?!

The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.

Garcia Bronco
06-06-2012, 09:43 AM
Privatizing a school means no government money of any kind. So the article in the OP is FOS.

BucEyedPea
06-06-2012, 10:24 AM
Privatizing a school means no government money of any kind. So the article in the OP is FOS.

A VERY good point. Too many Republicans want to have that mix of the two-worlds.

Garcia Bronco
06-06-2012, 01:28 PM
A VERY good point. Too many Republicans want to have that mix of the two-worlds.
Yep. In the end this is just an educational power grab in the state and the government is still paying for it...meaning the taxpayer is still paying for it...in essence so they can "teach" whatever they want and it's nonsense.