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qabbaan
06-06-2012, 10:09 AM
Interesting post-mortem on what it means for big labor:


Governor Walker's Victory Spells Doom For Public Sector Unions

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billfrezza/2012/06/05/governor-walkers-victory-spells-doom-for-public-sector-unions/



Public sector unions have reached their high water mark. Let the
cleanup begin as the red ink recedes.

Despite a last-minute smear campaign accusing Scott Walker of
fathering an illegitimate love child, the governor’s recall election
victory sends a clear message that should resonate around the nation:
The fiscal cancer devouring state budgets has a cure, and he has found
it. The costly defeat for the entrenched union interests that tried to
oust Walker in retribution for challenging their power was marked by
President Obama’s refusal to lend his weight to the campaign for fear
of being stained by defeat. We’ll see how well this strategy of
opportunistic detachment serves in the fall as Obama reaches out to
unions for support.

This fight is not without precedent. Progressive patron saint
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - who more than any other president set our
country on a course away from the founding principles of limited
government - knew that public sector unions would be the death of the
social welfare state he worked so hard to create. Hence, he
consistently opposed allowing government employees to unionize.
Today, Greece sets the example of what happens when public sector
unions gain the upper hand.

In 1959 Wisconsin became the first state to allow collective
bargaining by government employees. The projected cost of supporting
Baby Boomer union retirees now threatens to bankrupt the state, as it
does many others. Scott Walker ran for office promising change. The
fiscal medicine he is administering may be bitter, but it looks like
it is starting to work. The state budget has been balanced. The
unemployment rate has been dropping and is now below the national
average. Property taxes are down. Fraudulent sick leave policies -
which allowed employees to call in sick and then work the next shift
for overtime pay - have been ended. The government has stopped
forcibly collecting union dues from workers’ paychecks.

Best of all, the myth that union bosses represent their members’
interests has been exposed as a lie. Now that union dues are
voluntary, tens of thousands of union members have stopped paying
them. Membership in the Wisconsin chapter of the American Federation
of State, County and Municipal Employees union (AFSCME) has dropped by
half. Membership in the state’s American Federation of Teachers (AFT)
is down by over a third. Given unions’ influential role in most
elections, the national implications of this trend are staggering.

Walker’s message is clear: The key to bringing balance back to public
sector labor relations and balance state budgets is to break the iron
triangle of closed-shop mandatory unionization, compulsory dues
collection, and oversized campaign donations to politicians that
promise to do the unions’ bidding. If other governors take his cue and
take up the cause, that giant sucking sound you hear will be the air
coming out of union bosses’ bloated political action budgets.

The work in Wisconsin is not complete. The controversial law exempted
police and firefighters, a political concession to get the legislation
passed. Federal courts have zeroed in on this anomaly, striking down
certain sections of the law because they do not treat workers equally.
This needs to be repaired - by rescinding the exemption for public
safety workers. With the recall election behind him, Walker may be
sufficiently emboldened to do just that.

The power of private sector unions was long ago broken by many heavily
unionized companies going bankrupt. While this was painful for both
workers and shareholders, the economy motored on as nimbler non-union
competitors picked up the slack. This approach is problematic for the
public sector because bankrupt state and local governments cannot be
replaced by competitors waiting in the wings. Yes, citizens can always
vote with their feet, emptying out cities like Detroit, leaving the
blighted wreckage behind. But isn’t Walker’s targeted fiscal
retrenchment less painful than scorched-earth abandonment?

Chicago machine candidate Barack Obama rode into office to the tune
of Hail to the Chief, promising the unions that backed him the gift of
card check elections, ending the secret ballot that shields employees
from union intimidation. He may well ride into retirement to the tune
of On Wisconsin as the era of closed shop unionism comes to an
end.

qabbaan
06-06-2012, 10:14 AM
I thought a new topic would be good for the labor issues since yesterday's topic has evolved into Romney vs obama

Garcia Bronco
06-06-2012, 10:42 AM
I hope so. I don't have a problem with privatre sector unions. Go for it. Public sector Unions represent a serious conflict of interest.

HonestChieffan
06-06-2012, 10:45 AM
Doom is a bit of an overreach. But, the game is changing and we should see leaders be able to take the right steps to fix major problems.

BucEyedPea
06-06-2012, 11:24 AM
Doom is a bit of an overreach. But, the game is changing and we should see leaders be able to take the right steps to fix major problems.

I think it's an overreach too. Let's hope the game really does change. The left, however, is not going to quit. They never do.

Taco John
06-06-2012, 11:39 AM
Doom might not be so hyperbolic. Even with Walker defeating the recall challenge by a solid 7%, exit polls showed that the same voters planned on voting for Obama (54%) over Romney (42%) (http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/13002226-452/wisconsin-results-look-better-for-obama-than-for-romney.html). That shows quite a large gap between the Democrat message about public unions and what their voters think about it - this in a state where there has been neverending coverage about this issue for well over a year now.

The word "doom" always seems hyperbolic, but if public sector unions couldn't win in a recall challenge in Minnesota, then where can they win? I expect that we're about to find out - and I expect that what we are about find out is that they can't really win anywhere because where the rubber meets the road, the voters (including a large number of Democrat voters) aren't buying the argument for them.

donkhater
06-06-2012, 12:08 PM
It's only spells doom for the public sector unions if they aren't really unified. If their union and solidarity relies on forced dues and backroom deals, it wasn't much of a union to begin with.

oldandslow
06-06-2012, 12:10 PM
I may be very wrong, but I believe that it was more about method than issues. Lots of folks believe that recall should be used for official misconduct rather than policy differences.

I think most folks might hesitate to open a revolving election door every time they disagee with a policy.

AustinChief
06-06-2012, 05:34 PM
voting for Obama (54%) over Romney (42%) (http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/13002226-452/wisconsin-results-look-better-for-obama-than-for-romney.html).

Based on exit polls that were also saying that Walker was tied with Barrett?
Does that mean that Obama only really has a 5 point lead? The Wisconsin exit polls are garbage, I wouldn't count on them for anything. (I actually do think it's going to be around a 5 point lead for Obama there)

chiefzilla1501
06-06-2012, 07:01 PM
I hope so. I don't have a problem with privatre sector unions. Go for it. Public sector Unions represent a serious conflict of interest.

I don't think they're a conflict of interest. The union has its place. It's just become far, far, far too powerful. But you're right... Another part of me believes tha you'll never get unions to not be shaded by corrupt politicians.

Taco John
06-06-2012, 11:25 PM
Based on exit polls that were also saying that Walker was tied with Barrett?
Does that mean that Obama only really has a 5 point lead? The Wisconsin exit polls are garbage, I wouldn't count on them for anything. (I actually do think it's going to be around a 5 point lead for Obama there)

I trust exit polls over phone polls. I think they provide as accurate a snapshot as you can possibly get on how likely voters are thinking.

AustinChief
06-06-2012, 11:27 PM
I trust exit polls over phone polls. I think they provide as accurate a snapshot as you can possibly get on how likely voters are thinking.

I normally do as well, I'm just saying that for whatever reason.. THESE exit polls were flawed. So I'm not sure how valid they are.

BucEyedPea
06-07-2012, 06:50 AM
I don't think they're a conflict of interest. The union has its place. It's just become far, far, far too powerful. But you're right... Another part of me believes tha you'll never get unions to not be shaded by corrupt politicians.

Forcing all public employees to join a union and pay dues to it is a MAJOR conflict of interest in the public sector and denies a worker freedom of choice. It's one thing to have a right to join union; it's another for others to be forced to comply. This has no place in a free society.

Chiefshrink
06-07-2012, 09:52 AM
it wasn't much of a union to begin with.

They never are because adopted Marxist BS never is legit. That's an oxymoron:thumb:

Chiefshrink
06-07-2012, 10:00 AM
I trust exit polls over phone polls. I think they provide as accurate a snapshot as you can possibly get on how likely voters are thinking.

I wouldn't trust either especially exit polling. Especially in a 'union thuggery' environment with the Marxist Media in your face immediately after voting, asking you with such anticipation hoping you voted for Barrett, knowing the unions 'hate' secret voting and want 'card check' so they can MAFIA your ass if you get out of line:shrug:

This is why exit polling can't be trusted especially in a 'union thuggery state'. I can see why people would lie out of shear intimidation.

Chiefshrink
06-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Public sector Unions represent a serious conflict of interest.

Ya think ! Apparently the Marxist Dem party doesn't have a problem with it. But then again, when has the Marxist Dem party had any ethical problem when it comes to their agenda:rolleyes:

Chiefshrink
06-07-2012, 10:09 AM
I'm just saying that for whatever reason.. THESE exit polls were flawed.

See post #15.

mikey23545
06-07-2012, 10:12 AM
Since in front of many of the polling places the unions had stationed intimidating thugs that the voters had to walk by to vote, they may have also intimidated people answering polling questions right in front of them.

Chiefshrink
06-07-2012, 10:31 AM
Since in front of many of the polling places the unions had stationed intimidating thugs that the voters had to walk by to vote, they may have also intimidated people answering polling questions right in front of them.

I agree. :thumb: See post #15.

The Rick
06-07-2012, 02:10 PM
There was some interesting talk this morning on conservative radio here in Milwaukee.

I came in late and just caught the end of it, but the notion (I believe) was that there are something like 24 states with Republican governors, and that those states should all coordinate and move at the same time to end collective bargaining for public employees like Wisconsin did. Now emboldened by Walker's recall victory, by all moving at the same time, it spreads the unions too thin when it comes to resources, money, etc. Essentially, they could pretty much destroy the public employee unions because they couldn't possibly fight effectively in 24 states across the country all at once.

vailpass
06-07-2012, 02:16 PM
There was some interesting talk this morning on conservative radio here in Milwaukee.

I came in late and just caught the end of it, but the notion (I believe) was that there are something like 24 states with Republican governors, and that those states should all coordinate and move at the same time to end collective bargaining for public employees like Wisconsin did. Now emboldened by Walker's recall victory, by all moving at the same time, it spreads the unions too thin when it comes to resources, money, etc. Essentially, they could pretty much destroy the public employee unions because they couldn't possibly fight effectively in 24 states across the country all at once.

Interdasting indeed.

Munson
06-07-2012, 02:17 PM
There was some interesting talk this morning on conservative radio here in Milwaukee.

I came in late and just caught the end of it, but the notion (I believe) was that there are something like 24 states with Republican governors, and that those states should all coordinate and move at the same time to end collective bargaining for public employees like Wisconsin did. Now emboldened by Walker's recall victory, by all moving at the same time, it spreads the unions too thin when it comes to resources, money, etc. Essentially, they could pretty much destroy the public employee unions because they couldn't possibly fight effectively in 24 states across the country all at once.

That would be awesome! MSNBC would go nuts(even more than usual). Ed Shultz would have a heart attack on the air.

BucEyedPea
06-07-2012, 02:38 PM
There was some interesting talk this morning on conservative radio here in Milwaukee.

I came in late and just caught the end of it, but the notion (I believe) was that there are something like 24 states with Republican governors, and that those states should all coordinate and move at the same time to end collective bargaining for public employees like Wisconsin did. Now emboldened by Walker's recall victory, by all moving at the same time, it spreads the unions too thin when it comes to resources, money, etc. Essentially, they could pretty much destroy the public employee unions because they couldn't possibly fight effectively in 24 states across the country all at once.

I like it!

suzzer99
06-07-2012, 02:39 PM
Great, now maybe we can fix some of the other obvious political bullshit sacred cows in this country:


ethanol subsidies
anonymous unlimited campaign spending
marijuana laws (feeding for-profit prisons and powerful prison guard unions)
guaranteed student loans for students at for-profit-colleges
revolving door at SEC of Wall St. execs policing themselves
defense spending
SS disability abuse
basically anything Rick Scott does - dude is a flat-out criminal
online poker ban
shady derivatives markets
too-big-too-fail (still) banks
public worker pensions/retirement age/perks like cosmetic surgery
oil and gas subsidies

vailpass
06-07-2012, 04:40 PM
Great, now maybe we can fix some of the other obvious political bullshit sacred cows in this country:


ethanol subsidies
anonymous unlimited campaign spending
marijuana laws (feeding for-profit prisons and powerful prison guard unions)
guaranteed student loans for students at for-profit-colleges
revolving door at SEC of Wall St. execs policing themselves
defense spending
SS disability abuse
basically anything Rick Scott does - dude is a flat-out criminal
online poker ban
shady derivatives markets
too-big-too-fail (still) banks
public worker pensions/retirement age/perks like cosmetic surgery
oil and gas subsidies


I actually agree with you on some of these.