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View Full Version : U.S. Issues Current Laws of Mexico...Compare with the U.S.A.


Iz Zat Chew
06-12-2012, 05:50 PM
1 There will be NO bilingual programs in the schools.
2. ALL ballots will be in this nation's language.
3. ALL government business will be conducted in our language.
4. Non-residents will NEVER have the right to vote.
5. Non-citizens will NEVER hold political office.
6. NO welfare, NO food stamps, NO health care, or other government assistance programs.
7. Minimum foreign investment 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
8. Owning prime real estate is reserved for natives.
9. Foreigners may NOT protest, demonstrate, WAVE A FOREIGN FLAG, politically organize or bad-mouth our president or his policies.
10. If you’re illegal, you will be HUNTED & sent to jail until you are deported. ALL assets will be taken from you.!!

Compare this to how America treats illegals!

AustinChief
06-12-2012, 06:06 PM
We certainly shouldn't strive to be like Mexico. They have all of these policies and are a complete joke of a country. Doesn't really support the idea that we should change a damn thing.

Brock
06-12-2012, 06:07 PM
Mexico is a shithole.

Otter
06-12-2012, 06:12 PM
We certainly shouldn't strive to be like Mexico. They have all of these policies and are a complete joke of a country. Doesn't really support the idea that we should change a damn thing.

There's also the matter of dealing with a neighbor that is a tick on the back of your neck.

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 06:17 PM
1 There will be NO bilingual programs in the schools.
2. ALL ballots will be in this nation's language.
3. ALL government business will be conducted in our language.
4. Non-residents will NEVER have the right to vote.
5. Non-citizens will NEVER hold political office.
6. NO welfare, NO food stamps, NO health care, or other government assistance programs.
7. Minimum foreign investment 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
8. Owning prime real estate is reserved for natives.
9. Foreigners may NOT protest, demonstrate, WAVE A FOREIGN FLAG, politically organize or bad-mouth our president or his policies.
10. If you’re illegal, you will be HUNTED & sent to jail until you are deported. ALL assets will be taken from you.!!

Compare this to how America treats illegals!

Here's a good idea--have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for everyone.

I'm not going to waste time checking all of these, but I know #6 is not true, and several of the other ones sound like complete BS.

Iz Zat Chew
06-12-2012, 06:44 PM
Here's a good idea--have a point. It makes it so much more interesting for everyone.

I'm not going to waste time checking all of these, but I know #6 is not true, and several of the other ones sound like complete BS.

I'll ask that you prove that #6 is not true. You know? Ever been to Mexico? Ever break any of their laws?

I would say that you are just trying to stir the pot. At least stir it with some kind of proof.

vailpass
06-12-2012, 06:50 PM
One big difference is that if a gringo gets caught with a gun in mexico, or hell a bullet, you are in a world of hurt.

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 06:59 PM
I'll ask that you prove that #6 is not true. You know? Ever been to Mexico? Ever break any of their laws?

I would say that you are just trying to stir the pot. At least stir it with some kind of proof.

You are priceless. You post one of your lists full of BS--no link or citation of course, because that would be embarassing. Then someone, often me, says that some or most or all of it is BS. Then I have to prove it.

Maybe you should be able to back up these lists you post. Its not like you wrote them. You're asking me to take the time to fact-check what some idiot on a right-wing nut website wrote. No thanks. But my vast general knowledge is that the welfare/health care/govt assistance thing is incorrect, and I'm pretty skeptical of several others, especially that it is illegal to wave a foreign flag.

I do believe owning real estate is limited to citizens, so there's a least one correct, so that would set a new record for you if you could manage 1 correct out of 10.

Iz Zat Chew
06-12-2012, 07:57 PM
You are priceless. You post one of your lists full of BS--no link or citation of course, because that would be embarassing. Then someone, often me, says that some or most or all of it is BS. Then I have to prove it.

Maybe you should be able to back up these lists you post. Its not like you wrote them. You're asking me to take the time to fact-check what some idiot on a right-wing nut website wrote. No thanks. But my vast general knowledge is that the welfare/health care/govt assistance thing is incorrect, and I'm pretty skeptical of several others, especially that it is illegal to wave a foreign flag.

I do believe owning real estate is limited to citizens, so there's a least one correct, so that would set a new record for you if you could manage 1 correct out of 10.

YOU said that you knew for a fact, not a guess but a FACT, that it was untrue. I asked you to back that up. Well cosmo, how about it?

WilliamTheIrish
06-12-2012, 08:05 PM
Hilarious. This made the "FORWARD INBOX" rounds back in 07.

ClevelandBronco
06-12-2012, 08:06 PM
6. NO welfare, NO food stamps, NO health care, or other government assistance programs.

YOU said that you knew for a fact, not a guess but a FACT, that it was untrue. I asked you to back that up. Well cosmo, how about it?

Mexico is having some debate about the effectiveness of their government-run health care program. Strange since I read somewhere that they don't have one. I guess someone's conning the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/world/americas/30mexico.html?pagewanted=all

"Mexico’s Universal Health Care Is Work in Progress
By ELISABETH MALKIN
Published: January 29, 2011

YAUTEPEC, Mexico — When her twin girls were born seven weeks early, Azucena Mora Díaz did not have to worry about how she would pay for expensive hospital care, even though her husband has only a low-wage job as a construction worker’s assistant.

Under a government insurance plan for the poor, the girls were treated at the Women’s Hospital here and continue to receive follow-up care to monitor their development. The couple pays nothing.

“We owe everything to this,” Ms. Mora said as one of the twins, now 13 months old, squirmed in her arms, wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with a single word: “Smile.”

A decade ago, half of all Mexicans had no health insurance at all. Then the country’s Congress passed a bill to ensure health care for every Mexican without access to it. The goal was explicit: universal coverage.

By September, the government expects to have enrolled about 51 million people in the insurance plan it created six years ago — effectively reaching the target, at least on paper.

The big question, critics contend, is whether all those people actually get the health care the government has promised.

Under the plan, children with leukemia have been cured, women receive breast cancer treatment, elderly people get cataract operations and people with H.I.V. are assured their drugs. Usually at no cost.

Even critics who argue that the government is failing to live up to the promise of universal health coverage acknowledge that Mexico’s program saves lives and protects families from falling into poverty in many cases of catastrophic illness.

But the task of covering so many people’s care, with a budget of about $12 billion this year, is enormous. Still, Salomón Chertorivski, who is in charge of the government’s system of social protection for health, believes it is possible..."

Iz Zat Chew
06-12-2012, 08:10 PM
Mexico is having some debate about the effectiveness of their government-run health care program. Strange since I read somewhere that they don't have one. I guess someone's conning the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/world/americas/30mexico.html?pagewanted=all

"Mexico’s Universal Health Care Is Work in Progress
By ELISABETH MALKIN
Published: January 29, 2011

YAUTEPEC, Mexico — When her twin girls were born seven weeks early, Azucena Mora Díaz did not have to worry about how she would pay for expensive hospital care, even though her husband has only a low-wage job as a construction worker’s assistant.

Under a government insurance plan for the poor, the girls were treated at the Women’s Hospital here and continue to receive follow-up care to monitor their development. The couple pays nothing.

“We owe everything to this,” Ms. Mora said as one of the twins, now 13 months old, squirmed in her arms, wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with a single word: “Smile.”

A decade ago, half of all Mexicans had no health insurance at all. Then the country’s Congress passed a bill to ensure health care for every Mexican without access to it. The goal was explicit: universal coverage.

By September, the government expects to have enrolled about 51 million people in the insurance plan it created six years ago — effectively reaching the target, at least on paper.

The big question, critics contend, is whether all those people actually get the health care the government has promised.

Under the plan, children with leukemia have been cured, women receive breast cancer treatment, elderly people get cataract operations and people with H.I.V. are assured their drugs. Usually at no cost.

Even critics who argue that the government is failing to live up to the promise of universal health coverage acknowledge that Mexico’s program saves lives and protects families from falling into poverty in many cases of catastrophic illness.

But the task of covering so many people’s care, with a budget of about $12 billion this year, is enormous. Still, Salomón Chertorivski, who is in charge of the government’s system of social protection for health, believes it is possible..."

I believe you are right about the point you are wanting to prove, but your problem is that illegal aliens in Mexico has no access to them. UNLIKE in America where illegals seem to have access to all of them.

ClevelandBronco
06-12-2012, 08:11 PM
And what does the USDA know?

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fanrr6/

"A Comparison of Food Assistance Programs in Mexico and the United States

Craig Gundersen, Mara Yañez, Constanza Valdez, Betsey Kuhn

Food Assistance and Nutrition Research Report No. (FANRR6) 40 pp, August 2000

The social safety nets in Mexico and the United States rely heavily on food assistance programs to ensure food security and access to safe and nutritious foods. To achieve these general goals, both countries' programs are exclusively paid for out of internal funds and both target low-income households and/or individuals..."

ClevelandBronco
06-12-2012, 08:14 PM
I believe you are right about the point you are wanting to prove, but your problem is that illegal aliens in Mexico has no access to them. UNLIKE in America where illegals seem to have access to all of them.

Oh, you means that none of that stuff exists for the huddled masses yearning to breathe free in Mexico?

Yeah. Probably not.

ElGringo
06-12-2012, 08:21 PM
1 There will be NO bilingual programs in the schools.
2. ALL ballots will be in this nation's language.
3. ALL government business will be conducted in our language.
4. Non-residents will NEVER have the right to vote.
5. Non-citizens will NEVER hold political office.
6. NO welfare, NO food stamps, NO health care, or other government assistance programs.
7. Minimum foreign investment 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
8. Owning prime real estate is reserved for natives.
9. Foreigners may NOT protest, demonstrate, WAVE A FOREIGN FLAG, politically organize or bad-mouth our president or his policies.
10. If you’re illegal, you will be HUNTED & sent to jail until you are deported. ALL assets will be taken from you.!!

Compare this to how America treats illegals!

Wow, I don't venture into DC, well ever, but saw this and thought I would stop by. I do have a somewhat biased point of view as an American living in Mexico, but some of your points here are wrong.

1. Every school here teaches English, I understand what you mean in that they don't teach in English, but they are all learning.
2 - 5 correct as far as I know
6. I currently have what is called seguro popular. To sum up what it is, it is free health care for those not working for a larger company (I run my own small business)
7 - 10 I can not comment on as I have no direct experience with them.

EDIT: Forgot, on point 10....I have overstayed my Visa here many, many times. when I flew back home, I returned my expired visa, then came back to mexico and got a new visa 2 weeks later with no problems at all.

Iz Zat Chew
06-12-2012, 08:35 PM
Oh, you means that none of that stuff exists for the huddled masses yearning to breathe free in Mexico?

Yeah. Probably not.

Legal huddled masses every day of the week. Do you not understand the meaning behind illegal?

Probably not.

Brock
06-12-2012, 08:52 PM
Wow, I don't venture into DC, well ever, but saw this and thought I would stop by. I do have a somewhat biased point of view as an American living in Mexico, but some of your points here are wrong.

1. Every school here teaches English, I understand what you mean in that they don't teach in English, but they are all learning.
2 - 5 correct as far as I know
6. I currently have what is called seguro popular. To sum up what it is, it is free health care for those not working for a larger company (I run my own small business)
7 - 10 I can not comment on as I have no direct experience with them.

EDIT: Forgot, on point 10....I have overstayed my Visa here many, many times. when I flew back home, I returned my expired visa, then came back to mexico and got a new visa 2 weeks later with no problems at all.

Oh, you mean this is just another of Tom's famous chain emails he didn't even check out before posting? That's a surprise.

ElGringo
06-12-2012, 08:55 PM
Oh yeah, forgot to mention the latest time I crossed back into Mexico, on the bus, they didn't even check to see if I had a visa. Checked to make sure I had a valid American Passport, checked my luggage since the light turned red when the wife hit it, if it turned green they wouldn't have done that. But on my way to the states on the bus, we were stopped about twice a day with the army going through all our luggage.

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 09:02 PM
Oh, you mean this is just another of Tom's famous chain emails he didn't even check out before posting? That's a surprise.

Well, in his defense, if he checked it, then he would find out it was BS. Better not to know.

Here's how it works. He posts something that to most people looks false, even ridiculously inaccurate, just on its face. If you dare question it or ask where he got it, etc., it is up to you to research everything to prove it is false.

Donger
06-12-2012, 09:05 PM
Question: does anyone here support in-state tuition for illegals? If so, please explain why.

Thanks.

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 09:10 PM
I believe you are right about the point you are wanting to prove

Geez, Iz--you're about zero-for-life on your cut-and-paste posts. Most people would learn by now that chain mails and right-wing nut job websites are not the most accurate sources of information.

The funny thing is that just about all your posts like this have a few items that are just so ridiculous, anyone exercising any common sense would realize its inaccuracy. But not you.

Dave Lane
06-12-2012, 09:15 PM
I actually wonder if even 2-3 of those are actually true given Ton Cash's track record

WilliamTheIrish
06-12-2012, 09:16 PM
If you dare question it or ask where he got it, etc., it is up to you to research everything to prove it is false.

That's classic T_mCash. He and HCF get the same chain forwards.

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 09:22 PM
I actually wonder if even 2-3 of those are actually true given Ton Cash's track record

I think #8 about owning real estate might be true, although I'm not sure why he uses the term "natives" rather than citizens.

#5 seems like it could be true about non-citizens holding political office, although that doesn't seem like a radical requirement.

Bump
06-12-2012, 09:22 PM
mexico has laws?

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 09:23 PM
mexico has laws?

Apparently. Although having / enforcing are different things of course.

ElGringo
06-12-2012, 09:25 PM
I think #8 about owning real estate might be true, although I'm not sure why he uses the term "natives" rather than citizens.

#5 seems like it could be true about non-citizens holding political office, although that doesn't seem like a radical requirement.

When he uses "natives" it is incorrect, native would imply Mexican by birth, but a naturalized citizen would have most the rights as any other citizen (the most notable exception being the right to vote).

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 09:31 PM
When he uses "natives" it is incorrect, native would imply Mexican by birth, but a naturalized citizen would have most the rights as any other citizen (the most notable exception being the right to vote).

Hard to tell what he means most of the time. For all I know, he could have been referring to Mayans and Aztecs.

pr_capone
06-12-2012, 09:41 PM
This copypasta bullshit is from a book called:

The True American Manifesto
By Richard Fredericks ''Radicalrick''

link on google books:
http://tinyurl.com/6t4vavv

He is the author of other sterling political commentary like... NOTHING THE FUCK ELSE.

Dave Lane
06-12-2012, 10:03 PM
1 There will be NO bilingual programs in the schools.
2. ALL ballots will be in this nation's language.
3. ALL government business will be conducted in our language.
4. Non-residents will NEVER have the right to vote.
5. Non-citizens will NEVER hold political office.
6. NO welfare, NO food stamps, NO health care, or other government assistance programs.
7. Minimum foreign investment 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
8. Owning prime real estate is reserved for natives.
9. Foreigners may NOT protest, demonstrate, WAVE A FOREIGN FLAG, politically organize or bad-mouth our president or his policies.
10. If you’re illegal, you will be HUNTED & sent to jail until you are deported. ALL assets will be taken from you.!!




Compare this to how America treats illegals!


You know the really funny is thing is I'm surprised republicans aren't flocking to Mexico. That laundry list reads like it should be the republican manifesto.

It's nirvana boys go get it!!

pr_capone
06-12-2012, 10:07 PM
You know the really funny is thing is I'm surprised republicans aren't flocking to Mexico. That laundry list reads like it should be the republican manifesto.

It's nirvana boys go get it!!

Ladies and gentlemen... we now have a tie for the dumbest post in this thread. The tie is shared between the OP and the post quoted above.

Dave Lane
06-12-2012, 10:20 PM
Ladies and gentlemen... we now have a tie for the dumbest post in this thread. The tie is shared between the OP and the post quoted above.

Seriously? WTF its like the republican party planks laid out for all to see.

Dave Lane
06-12-2012, 10:22 PM
Ladies and gentlemen... we now have a tie for the dumbest post in this thread. The tie is shared between the OP and the post quoted above.

Re-read that and tell me thats not a republican wet dream come true. I dare you, hell I double dog dare ya.

pr_capone
06-12-2012, 10:32 PM
Seriously? WTF its like the republican party planks laid out for all to see.

LMFAO... whatever. I understand that sweeping generalizations based on personal perceptions rather than fact are fun to spout.

Your comment is the equivalent of me saying that it is a wonder that Democrats don't flock to China because of their Socialist form of government. All you did was take the most extreme view of a political party, then generalize the entire group based on that segment in a ridiculous fashion. Congratulations... you are on par with idiots like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 10:34 PM
You know the really funny is thing is I'm surprised republicans aren't flocking to Mexico. That laundry list reads like it should be the republican manifesto.

It's nirvana boys go get it!!

It does kind of resemble that Republican purity test that made the rounds a few years ago.

pr_capone
06-12-2012, 10:35 PM
Re-read that and tell me thats not a republican wet dream come true. I dare you, hell I double dog dare ya.

I am registered as a republican. It is not my wet dream come true.

You are and idiot.

Dave Lane
06-12-2012, 10:41 PM
I am registered as a republican. It is not my wet dream come true.

You are and idiot.

I'm a registered republican too. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate the irony of the post.

Seriously, it is like sportshrink vailpass and HCF had a kid and he wrote these rules. Cereally.

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 10:48 PM
LMFAO... whatever. I understand that sweeping generalizations based on personal perceptions rather than fact are fun to spout.

Your comment is the equivalent of me saying that it is a wonder that Democrats don't flock to China because of their Socialist form of government. All you did was take the most extreme view of a political party, then generalize the entire group based on that segment in a ridiculous fashion. Congratulations... you are on par with idiots like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

Except that the "Dems are socialists" thing is an absurd assertion unsupported by the mere definition of the word 'socialist.'

On the other hand, several items on that list are basic positions supported by even mainstream Rs:
1 There will be NO bilingual programs in the schools.
2. ALL ballots will be in this nation's language.
3. ALL government business will be conducted in our language.
6. NO welfare, NO food stamps, NO health care, or other government assistance programs.
9. [People] may NOT protest, demonstrate, WAVE A FOREIGN FLAG, politically organize or bad-mouth our president or his policies [if that president is an R, especially if 'during a time of war'].
10. If you’re illegal, you will be HUNTED & sent to jail until you are deported.

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 10:49 PM
I am registered as a republican. It is not my wet dream come true.


RINO

Iz Zat Chew
06-12-2012, 10:58 PM
LMFAO... whatever. I understand that sweeping generalizations based on personal perceptions rather than fact are fun to spout.

Your comment is the equivalent of me saying that it is a wonder that Democrats don't flock to China because of their Socialist form of government. All you did was take the most extreme view of a political party, then generalize the entire group based on that segment in a ridiculous fashion. Congratulations... you are on par with idiots like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

Why would the democrats flock to China? They have Obama here!

pr_capone
06-12-2012, 11:15 PM
RINO

Proud of it too.

Why would the democrats flock to China? They have Obama here!

:banghead:

cosmo20002
06-12-2012, 11:20 PM
Proud of it too.



If you are going to be a Republican, RINO is definetely the way to go.

BIG_DADDY
06-12-2012, 11:23 PM
If you were the oligarchy of that country you would do the exact same things for obvious reasons. Not sure the point you're looking to make but that has little to do with our recent loss of rights if that was the comparison you were looking at.

Dave Lane
06-12-2012, 11:39 PM
If you were the oligarchy of that country you would do the exact same things for obvious reasons. Not sure the point you're looking to make but that has little to do with our recent loss of rights if that was the comparison you were looking at.

You disagree with my point though? And of course you are spot on, I understand why they do it.

Chiefspants
06-13-2012, 01:08 AM
I'll ask that you prove that #6 is not true. You know? Ever been to Mexico? Ever break any of their laws?

I would say that you are just trying to stir the pot. At least stir it with some kind of proof.

Mexico: The promised land.

Chiefshrink
06-13-2012, 01:23 AM
Question: does anyone here support in-state tuition for illegals? If so, please explain why.

Thanks.

Would you support illegal alien children getting to pay 1/2 price in-state tuition while your kids pay full price in-state tuition? That's what's being proposed right now in Colorado. It's :BS:

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 01:38 AM
Proud of it too.



Just curious though, why would someone knowingly be a RINO or be proud of it? You're essentially saying that you choose to be part of the team, but you're not really an R in your mind. So what's the point? What's the point of claiming membership in a group of extremists, hypocrites and crackpots, but then saying you're not really one of them?

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 01:42 AM
Would you support illegal alien children getting to pay 1/2 price in-state tuition while your kids pay full price in-state tuition? That's what's being proposed right now in Colorado. It's :BS:

And there's no additional relevant facts here? So, its just a half-price sale for illegal alien children, end of story? Somehow, I think something is being left out.

Chiefshrink
06-13-2012, 01:49 AM
And there's no additional relevant facts here? So, its just a half-price sale for illegal alien children, end of story? Somehow, I think something is being left out.

Hmmmmmmmm:hmmm: Illegal aliens and their children don't pay taxes and are parasites on our entitlement programs and now they possibly will only have to pay 1/2 whereas Colo citizens get no price breaks at all. You think that is fair:rolleyes:

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 01:55 AM
Hmmmmmmmm:hmmm: Illegal aliens and their children don't pay taxes and are parasites on our entitlement programs and now they possibly will only have to pay 1/2 whereas Colo citizens get no price breaks at all. You think that is fair:rolleyes:

I didn't say it was fair. I said you are obviously leaving out some facts so that a person could determine what is actually going on.

WHY is it 1/2 price for these people?

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 02:11 AM
Hmmmmmmmm:hmmm: Illegal aliens and their children don't pay taxes and are parasites on our entitlement programs and now they possibly will only have to pay 1/2 whereas Colo citizens get no price breaks at all. You think that is fair:rolleyes:

I went ahead and looked it up, and not suprisingly, you are wrong.

First, it is one college, Metro State in Denver.

"Under the special rate, illegal aliens will pay $6,716.60 per year, while out-of-state students will pay $15,985 per year. In-state (citizen) Metro students will pay $4,304.40 per year."

So, they pay A LOT MORE than in-state students, not half the price as you claimed. There might be some valid points to argue about the plan, but too bad you have to muck it up with completely false statements about the most important pieces of relevant information.

Chiefshrink
06-13-2012, 02:14 AM
I didn't say it was fair. I said you are obviously leaving out some facts so that a person could determine what is actually going on.

WHY is it 1/2 price for these people?

Dem Gov, Dem Mayor of Denver - Election yr !!!! OMarxist and the Dems need all the votes they can get since Colo is a swing state. It is as simple as that !!

Chiefshrink
06-13-2012, 02:29 AM
I went ahead and looked it up, and not suprisingly, you are wrong.

First, it is one college, Metro State in Denver.

"Under the special rate, illegal aliens will pay $6,716.60 per year, while out-of-state students will pay $15,985 per year. In-state (citizen) Metro students will pay $4,304.40 per year."

So, they pay A LOT MORE than in-state students, not half the price as you claimed. There might be some valid points to argue about the plan, but too bad you have to muck it up with completely false statements about the most important pieces of relevant information.

Precisely ! And you are correct. I knew all this prior because I live here but wanted to make a point. Now do you see how Obama and his regime play games with the economic numbers and never give you the full truth if any truth at all on any issue coming from this WH. They make blanket misleading statements all the time whether statistical or otherwise and the MSP media never hold him or this WH accountable for any of this BS. All the MSP media would have to do is do what you just did with me.

|Zach|
06-13-2012, 08:44 AM
Life can be pretty tough. But it is a lot tougher when you are T0m Cash.

Brock
06-13-2012, 08:52 AM
Precisely ! And you are correct. I knew all this prior because I live here but wanted to make a point. .

You wanted to make a point that you were talking out of your ass? That's an interesting debate strategy.

Dave Lane
06-13-2012, 09:20 AM
You wanted to make a point that you were talking out of your ass? That's an interesting debate strategy.

Completely lying is a pretty common right wing strategy, especially on here. At least SS admits he does it.

Chiefshrink
06-13-2012, 09:35 AM
You wanted to make a point that you were talking out of your ass? That's an interesting debate strategy.

When I saw Donger's question and knowing specifically the issue out here, immediately I thought, "what a teachable moment" not trying specifically to set up Steve personally but any Lib who would call me out. Just so happens Steve did. I use this same technique at times with parents of adolescents to get them to see the unknowingly(most of the time) double standard/mixed message they send their kids and how it causes problems. Parents say and do this but the facts revealed by the kids say otherwise. I always tell parents if you want your kid to truly listen to you, LIVE THE TRUTH far more than you speak it. Then when you do have to have that critical talk they will listen most of the time. Let your kid see you in action living the truth without saying a word. It's starts very young and by the time they hit the teenage yrs you have HUGE CRED and then they listen and those teen yrs will be far less chaotic. This is why the MSP media whether print or TV have very little if any cred because they don't pursue the truth and "We The People" see it and the sad part is as narcissistic as the MSP media and OMarxist and his regime are they don't realize it and keep trying to CON "We The People" with all these BS trumped up non-election issues in order to keep from talking about OMarxist's real economic record which is abysmal.

Chiefshrink
06-13-2012, 09:38 AM
At least SS admits he does it.

The truth always keeps you free !!:clap:

Brock
06-13-2012, 09:51 AM
When I saw Donger's question and knowing specifically the issue out here, immediately I thought, "what a teachable moment" not trying specifically to set up Steve personally but any Lib who would call me out. Just so happens Steve did. I use this same technique at times with parents of adolescents to get them to see the unknowingly(most of the time) double standard/mixed message they send their kids and how it causes problems. Parents say and do this but the facts revealed by the kids say otherwise. I always tell parents if you want your kid to truly listen to you, LIVE THE TRUTH far more than you speak it. Then when you do have to have that critical talk they will listen most of the time. Let your kid see you in action living the truth without saying a word. It's starts very young and by the time they hit the teenage yrs you have HUGE CRED and then they listen and those teen yrs will be far less chaotic. This is why the MSP media whether print or TV have very little if any cred because they don't pursue the truth and "We The People" see it and the sad part is as narcissistic as the MSP media and OMarxist and his regime are they don't realize it and keep trying to CON "We The People" with all these BS trumped up non-election issues in order to keep from talking about OMarxist's real economic record which is abysmal.

I would like anyone who reads this to explain how it makes sense in English.

Amnorix
06-13-2012, 10:26 AM
I would like anyone who reads this to explain how it makes sense in English.


This should clear it up.


http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/4/4/1/0/6/ar124241481860144.jpg

Aries Walker
06-13-2012, 10:38 AM
When I saw Donger's question and knowing specifically the issue out here, immediately I thought, "what a teachable moment" not trying specifically to set up Steve personally but any Lib who would call me out. Just so happens Steve did. I use this same technique at times with parents of adolescents to get them to see the unknowingly(most of the time) double standard/mixed message they send their kids and how it causes problems. Parents say and do this but the facts revealed by the kids say otherwise. I always tell parents if you want your kid to truly listen to you, LIVE THE TRUTH far more than you speak it. Then when you do have to have that critical talk they will listen most of the time. Let your kid see you in action living the truth without saying a word. It's starts very young and by the time they hit the teenage yrs you have HUGE CRED and then they listen and those teen yrs will be far less chaotic. This is why the MSP media whether print or TV have very little if any cred because they don't pursue the truth and "We The People" see it and the sad part is as narcissistic as the MSP media and OMarxist and his regime are they don't realize it and keep trying to CON "We The People" with all these BS trumped up non-election issues in order to keep from talking about OMarxist's real economic record which is abysmal.
Yes, but you just lied. That undermines everything you just said.

You said that, under the proposed Colorado bill (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20464883/colorado-tuition-bill-illegal-immigrants-clears-house-committee), illegal immigrants would be paying less than an in-state residents. The truth is they would be paying more.

I admit that I'm assuming that you had yourself read about the bill before posting about it, and you weren't just parroting what you heard some reactionary Republican demagogue recently preach. With that said, your claim about the Colorado bill must have been a very simple and obvious deliberate misrepresentation of the facts - commonly known as a bald-faced lie - that you got caught telling.

Are you now saying you did this on purpose, so you can show the world how the liberal left lies by lying yourself? Did you plan to get called out on it? Were you going to reveal your cunning plan if no one had looked it up? None of that seems to make much sense, but then again, I'm a historian, not a psychologist. So please, Mr. Knows About These Sort Of Things, explain it to me.

I really, really want to know how this tactic works.

Donger
06-13-2012, 10:41 AM
The bill would create a new category of tuition for illegal immigrants higher than in-state tuition but lower than out-of-state tuition.

Correct. So, will someone who supports this policy explain/justify it?

Aries Walker
06-13-2012, 10:48 AM
It's only for kids who have been in Colorado High Schools for three years or more, and have graduated from there. It's so they don't have to pay the ridiculously-tripled Out-of-State tuition rates, thereby encouraging them to go to college. More people in college. More education. Good.

Personally, I think they should add a provision where the kid can apply for and get his American citizenship at the same time, and then require that he does so, but I guess that gets too DREAM-Acty for a lot of people. But it's still in committee, so we'll see.

Fish
06-13-2012, 11:00 AM
When I saw Donger's question and knowing specifically the issue out here, immediately I thought, "what a teachable moment" .
.
.
.
.
.

ROFL

Ohh God! Everyone run! Hide your children!!!

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:02 AM
You know the really funny is thing is I'm surprised republicans aren't flocking to Mexico. That laundry list reads like it should be the republican manifesto.

It's nirvana boys go get it!!

Nailed. Of course i fully expect them to deny it, even though they argue for these things nearly everyday.

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:05 AM
It's only for kids who have been in Colorado High Schools for three years or more, and have graduated from there. It's so they don't have to pay the ridiculously-tripled Out-of-State tuition rates, thereby encouraging them to go to college. More people in college. More education. Good.

Personally, I think they should add a provision where the kid can apply for and get his American citizenship at the same time, and then require that he does so, but I guess that gets too DREAM-Acty for a lot of people. But it's still in committee, so we'll see.

I don't agree. Illegals shouldn't get a break on top of getting the benefits of being here illegally. If they want to go to college, they should at the very least be forced to pay the higher out-of-state tuition rates.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:10 AM
I don't agree. Illegals shouldn't get a break on top of getting the benefits of being here illegally. If they want to go to college, they should at the very least be forced to pay the higher out-of-state tuition rates.

Of course! Lets give the poorest people the most expensive tuition! That's a great way to educate these people!

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:11 AM
Of course! Lets give the poorest citizens the most expensive tuition! That's a great way to educate these people!

I don't care if they are educated.

vailpass
06-13-2012, 11:11 AM
Of course! Lets give the poorest citizens the most expensive tuition! That's a great way to educate these people!

That's where conservatives and liberals differ. One thinks that word is an insult, the other think it is a right.
The US government does not owe poor people an education.
Respect for you Detoxing, you know it is possible to achieve goals through work.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:13 AM
I don't care if they are educated.

Clearly. You're just being a typical right wing dick.

You might as well just come out and say, "I don't want them going to College", because you know damn well that the vast majority would never be able to afford that kind of tuition.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:14 AM
That's where conservatives and liberals differ. One thinks that word is an insult, the other think it is a right.
The US government does not owe poor people an education.

I guess i missed the part where they were getting a free college tuition. Coulda swore it said 6K.

Dave Lane
06-13-2012, 11:14 AM
I don't agree. Illegals shouldn't get a break on top of getting the benefits of being here illegally. If they want to go to college, they should at the very least be forced to pay the higher out-of-state tuition rates.

Ehh its splitting hairs. If they already have 3 years in a Colorado high school and pay more than in state its hard to be outraged.

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:14 AM
Clearly. You're just being a typical right wing dick.

You might as well just come out and say, "I don't want them going to College", because you know damn well that the vast majority would never be able to afford that kind of tuition.

I don't care if anyone goes to college, other than my immediate family. It simply isn't a concern of mine.

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:15 AM
Ehh its splitting hairs. If they already have 3 years in a Colorado high school and pay more than in state its hard to be outraged.

Yep, subsidized by me.

Dave Lane
06-13-2012, 11:16 AM
The HS portion or College?

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:16 AM
The HS portion or College?

High school.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:17 AM
I don't care if anyone goes to college, other than my immediate family. It simply isn't a concern of mine.

Then why does it matter to you if they're paying less than out of state students? We're not talking about a government hand out.

Dave Lane
06-13-2012, 11:18 AM
Well thats fair. In fairness I have no kids and subsidize a host of other peoples spawnage.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:18 AM
I don't agree. Illegals shouldn't get a break on top of getting the benefits of being here illegally. If they want to go to college, they should at the very least be forced to pay the higher out-of-state tuition rates.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly ARE the benefits of being here illegaly?

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:18 AM
Then why does it matter to you if they're paying less than out of state students? We're not talking about a government hand out.

Because if they pay out-of-state tuition, my state gets more money from them. The state in which they are living illegally. Consider it a sin tax.

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:19 AM
Just out of curiosity, what exactly ARE the benefits of being here illegaly?

You mean beyond access to our educational system? I suppose you should ask them. They obviously see the benefits.

Brock
06-13-2012, 11:20 AM
Just out of curiosity, what exactly ARE the benefits of being here illegaly?

ROFL

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:22 AM
Because if they pay out-of-state tuition, my state gets more money from them. The state in which they are living illegally. Consider it a sin tax.

Uh huh. If they had to pay high tuition, they just wouldn't attend and your state would get dick. Rather have 6K or nothing at all?

And you would have less educated people in your community.

Typically, less education + Poor = Higher crime rate = More money spent by the state.

Real recipe for success.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:23 AM
You mean beyond access to our educational system? I suppose you should ask them. They obviously see the benefits.

I just want to know what you think the benefits are. Clearly there are some benefits, but you make it seem like being Illegal is the way to live life.

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:24 AM
Uh huh. If they had to pay high tuition, they just wouldn't attend and your state would get dick. Rather have 6K or nothing at all?

Yes, I'd rather have nothing.

And you would have less educated people in your community.

Typically, less education + Poor = Higher crime rate = More money spent by the state.

Real recipe for success.

These people aren't in my community.

If they choose to commit other crimes, they should be deported.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:25 AM
Yes, I'd rather have nothing.

.

So then stop acting concerned about how much money the state gets.

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:26 AM
I just want to know what you think the benefits are. Clearly there are some benefits, but you make it seem like being Illegal is the way to live life.

Okay.

Access to our medical system.

Jobs.

Educational system.

Just off the top of my head.

Like I said, they came here for a reason or reasons. You think that illegals don't benefit by being here?

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:27 AM
So then stop acting concerned about how much money the state gets.

I'm not really. It's just an off-shoot. I'd rather see these illegals arrested and deported.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:36 AM
Okay.

Access to our medical system.

Jobs.

Educational system.

Just off the top of my head.

Like I said, they came here for a reason or reasons. You think that illegals don't benefit by being here?

I never said there weren't benefits. Just curious as to why you seem to think they live the "good-Life".

I know some illegals. And they are about as poor as poor can be. I find it hilarious when people like you act like this Country GIVES them so much.

I dont think you understand how difficult it is for some of these people to actually find a job. And when they do, they're often taken advantage of and underpaid.

Medical? Sure, there are some hospitals out there that will take them in, but show me an illegal with a free health plan. I've never seen one.

I just find it funny that so many people want to act like being Illegal in USA is such a great thing.

All it shows me is that you are completely detached from what's really happening, and how these people really live.

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:37 AM
I never said there weren't benefits. Just curious as to why you seem to think they live the "good-Life".

I know some illegals. And they are about as poor as poor can be. I find it hilarious when people like you act like this Country GIVES them so much.

I dont think you understand how difficult it is for some of these people to actually find a job. And when they do, they're often taken advantage of and underpaid.

Medical? Sure, there are some hospitals out there that will take them in, but show me an illegal with a free health plan. I've never seen one.

I just find it funny that so many people want to act like being Illegal in USA is such a great thing.

All it shows me is that you are completely detached from what's really happening, and how these people really live.

Wait, let me get a tissue.

It obviously is a much better place than where they came from, agree? Otherwise why did they come and stay?

vailpass
06-13-2012, 11:44 AM
Good. Living here illegally should be hard, it should not be a good life. Either come in through the front door or do not come in at all. And for gods sake don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you because you broke our laws and are having a tough time finding a job.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 11:50 AM
Wait, let me get a tissue.

It obviously is a much better place than where they came from, agree? Otherwise why did they come and stay?

Good. Living here illegally should be hard, it should not be a good life. Either come in through the front door or do not come in at all. And for gods sake don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you because you broke our laws and are having a tough time finding a job.

Lol. No one is pulling a pitty card.

Just merely pointing out that this country hardly "GIVES" them a damn thing, like so many of you want to believe. Couldn't be further from the truth, regardless of what your right wing biased articles want to depict.

I just thought it was hilarious when Donger essentially cried about Illegals paying less than out of state tuition (while still paying more than in state) because this Country "gives" them so much as it is.

ROFL

So delusional.....

Donger
06-13-2012, 11:54 AM
Lol. No one is pulling a pitty card.

Just merely pointing out that this country hardly "GIVES" them a damn thing, like so many of you want to believe. Couldn't be further from the truth, regardless of what your right wing biased articles want to depict.

I just thought it was hilarious when Donger essentially cried about Illegals paying less than out of state tuition (while still paying more than in state) because this Country "gives" them so much as it is.

ROFL

So delusional.....

That's fine. You can change it to "what they take" instead of "what they get" if that makes you feel better. Again, I've shown you the benefits they get by being here. And they have no right to any of it at all.

vailpass
06-13-2012, 11:56 AM
Lol. No one is pulling a pitty card.

Just merely pointing out that this country hardly "GIVES" them a damn thing, like so many of you want to believe. Couldn't be further from the truth, regardless of what your right wing biased articles want to depict.

I just thought it was hilarious when Donger essentially cried about Illegals paying less than out of state tuition (while still paying more than in state) because this Country "gives" them so much as it is.

ROFL

So delusional.....

I don't get my data from "right wing biased articles", I get it from living in Arizona and seeing what illegals cost our educational, health care, and public systems. For you to attempt to downplay the very real problem of negative financial impact caused by illegals is either disingenuous or uninformed.

For you to deny that the US gives illegals much more than they had in mexico is also untrue.
It isn't the individual illegal that is the problem, it is all of the individuals as a whole.

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 12:02 PM
That's fine. You can change it to "what they take" instead of "what they get" if that makes you feel better. Again, I've shown you the benefits they get by being here. And they have no right to any of it at all.

LoL this isn't about me or how i feel.

Its about how you and many others who involve themselves in these matters continue to embellish things to try to prove your point. It just makes it that much harder to come up with a real solution.

But then again, i can't blame you too much for it. It's how politics are run these days. You've been taught by the best "truth-Benders" in the world i suppose. I guess that's why this country is stuck in the mud, unable to make any significant decisions on any subject that actually matters.

Donger
06-13-2012, 12:03 PM
LoL this isn't about me or how i feel.

Its about how you and many others who involve themselves in these matters continue to embellish things to try to prove your point. It just makes it that much harder to come up with a real solution.

But then again, i can't blame you too much for it. It's how politics are run these days. You've been taught by the best "truth-Benders" in the world i suppose. I guess that's why this country is stuck in the mud, unable to make any significant decisions on any subject that actually matters.

What precisely do you think I'm embellishing?

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 12:08 PM
I don't get my data from "right wing biased articles", I get it from living in Arizona and seeing what illegals cost our educational, health care, and public systems. For you to attempt to downplay the very real problem of negative financial impact caused by illegals is either disingenuous or uninformed.

For you to deny that the US gives illegals much more than they had in mexico is also untrue.
It isn't the individual illegal that is the problem, it is all of the individuals as a whole.

I'm well aware of their financial drain, you know damn well i don't support illegal immigration. You know my stance on this, we've done this dance many times. I live 20 Minutes from the border, i see just as many illegals as you do.

As far as the US giving them much more than they had in Mexico, is debatable.

Amnorix
06-13-2012, 12:18 PM
Somewhat amusing to note that the current illegal immigration problem isn't much of a problem. Illegal immigrants are flowing OUT of the country, on a net basis, due ot the weak economy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-first-time-since-depression-more-mexicans-leave-us-than-enter/2012/04/23/gIQApyiDdT_story.html

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 12:20 PM
Somewhat amusing to note that the current illegal immigration problem isn't much of a problem. Illegal immigrants are flowing OUT of the country, on a net basis, due ot the weak economy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-first-time-since-depression-more-mexicans-leave-us-than-enter/2012/04/23/gIQApyiDdT_story.html

I remember that article. I was going to bring it up but couldn't remember the link.

I just WISH (i know wish in one hand....) that people would pull their heads out their asses and find a solution, rather than lying to each other for the sake of being right.

vailpass
06-13-2012, 12:20 PM
I'm well aware of their financial drain, you know damn well i don't support illegal immigration. You know my stance on this, we've done this dance many times. I live 20 Minutes from the border, i see just as many illegals as you do.

As far as the US giving them much more than they had in Mexico, is debatable.

Really?

Detoxing
06-13-2012, 12:34 PM
Really?

The article above would suggest that yes, it is debatable.

vailpass
06-13-2012, 12:42 PM
Somewhat amusing to note that the current illegal immigration problem isn't much of a problem. Illegal immigrants are flowing OUT of the country, on a net basis, due ot the weak economy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/for-first-time-since-depression-more-mexicans-leave-us-than-enter/2012/04/23/gIQApyiDdT_story.html

Might look that way on the East Coast. Come on down to Arizona, or Texas, or California, or New Mexico.

Aries Walker
06-13-2012, 12:47 PM
I don't care if anyone goes to college, other than my immediate family. It simply isn't a concern of mine.

It should be. An educated society is better for all of us. People are better informed and better able to make choices (like voting), crime goes down, innovation rises, among other things. The answer is not to deny resident illegals the chance to get educated, it's to find a way to make them legal citizens and contribute to the country that's contributing to them. That's how the country was created, and it's worked pretty well so far.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly ARE the benefits of being here illegaly?

Tons. They are protected by our police, guarded by our military, have their fires put out by our fire fighters. They breathe the air and drink the water protected by our EPA, and eat food protected by our FDA. They are protected from disease by our CDC, tornados by our NWS, and nuclear explosions by our NRC. They (as has been pointed out) go to the schools we pay for, drive on the roads we built, use the Post Office we run, and if they are starving, they get food from our charity food banks. They can visit any park, library, or museum in the country, usually for free, and all of the money they make and put in our banks is insured completely by the FDIC. Whatever company they get a job at has been created under our rules, subsidies, society, and innovation. And if they fall off a ladder and crack their skull, every hospital in the country has to treat them, even if they get a huge bill afterward.

Even the poorest people in the US get massive benefits from being here.

As far as the US giving them much more than they had in Mexico, is debatable.

That's outrageous. Mexico is the Wild West without the romance, where life is cheap and crime is unchecked.

KC native
06-13-2012, 12:58 PM
Might look that way on the East Coast. Come on down to Arizona, or Texas, or California, or New Mexico.

I live in Texas and can say there are less illegals. The family that used to live across the street went back a year ago because they couldn't find work anymore.

KC native
06-13-2012, 12:59 PM
Might look that way on the East Coast. Come on down to Arizona, or Texas, or California, or New Mexico.

Also, you're a racist piece of shit so any Mexican is an illegal in your eyes.

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 01:02 PM
Precisely ! And you are correct. I knew all this prior because I live here but wanted to make a point.

The only point you have made is that you are a complete liar. How do you make a point by making false statements--statements you KNEW to be false?
You are just a scumbag.

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 01:05 PM
When I saw Donger's question and knowing specifically the issue out here, immediately I thought, "what a teachable moment" not trying specifically to set up Steve personally but any Lib who would call me out. Just so happens Steve did. I use this same technique at times with parents of adolescents to get them to see the unknowingly(most of the time) double standard/mixed message they send their kids and how it causes problems. Parents say and do this but the facts revealed by the kids say otherwise. I always tell parents if you want your kid to truly listen to you, LIVE THE TRUTH far more than you speak it. Then when you do have to have that critical talk they will listen most of the time. Let your kid see you in action living the truth without saying a word. It's starts very young and by the time they hit the teenage yrs you have HUGE CRED and then they listen and those teen yrs will be far less chaotic. This is why the MSP media whether print or TV have very little if any cred because they don't pursue the truth and "We The People" see it and the sad part is as narcissistic as the MSP media and OMarxist and his regime are they don't realize it and keep trying to CON "We The People" with all these BS trumped up non-election issues in order to keep from talking about OMarxist's real economic record which is abysmal.

BS. You made up some stuff and got caught. Liar and a scumbag.

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 01:12 PM
You mean beyond access to our educational system? I suppose you should ask them. They obviously see the benefits.

People who would be eligible for this came here as an illegal when they were kids. They probably didn't have a lot of choice in the matter.

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 01:14 PM
It obviously is a much better place than where they came from, agree? Otherwise why did they come and stay?

Because they were children brought here by their parents? :shrug:

vailpass
06-13-2012, 01:30 PM
I live in Texas and can say there are less illegals. The family that used to live across the street went back a year ago because they couldn't find work anymore.

Less isn't the same as "not too many". There are way too many illegals here to those of us who care about enforcing the immigration laws of our nation.

BigRichard
06-13-2012, 02:00 PM
Just out of curiosity, what exactly ARE the benefits of being here illegaly?

They just got a high school diploma on the dime of the legal tax paying residents of Colorado for one.

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 03:08 PM
Also, you're a racist piece of shit so any Mexican is an illegal in your eyes.

Of those that are here illegal, several are not Mexican you racist piece of shit~

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 03:25 PM
Of those that are here illegal, several are not Mexican you racist piece of shit~

That is true, and thanks for the reminder. Those illegal Norwegians need to be dealt with!

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 03:34 PM
That is true, and thanks for the reminder. Those illegal Norwegians need to be dealt with!

Your lack of knowledge of the countries south of us is amusing~

vailpass
06-13-2012, 03:37 PM
That is true, and thanks for the reminder. Those illegal Norwegians need to be dealt with!

Negro please.

ClevelandBronco
06-13-2012, 06:04 PM
It should be. An educated society is better for all of us. People are better informed and better able to make choices (like voting), crime goes down, innovation rises, among other things. The answer is not to deny resident illegals the chance to get educated...

You want to educate illegal aliens in part so they'll be more informed voters?

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 06:19 PM
I live in Texas and can say there are less illegals. The family that used to live across the street went back a year ago because they couldn't find work anymore.

There should be virtually NO illegals. If we fixed the broken system that makes it easier to be an illegal then to be here legally, the problem would go away. Too many racists and lazy status quo bureaucrats involved at this point.

Aries Walker
06-13-2012, 06:28 PM
You want to educate illegal aliens in part so they'll be more informed voters?I've been saying since the beginning that they should become naturalized citizens at the same time that they get the discounted education, after which time they would presumably vote like everyone else.

ClevelandBronco
06-13-2012, 06:48 PM
I've been saying since the beginning that they should become naturalized citizens at the same time that they get the discounted education, after which time they would presumably vote like everyone else.

Okay. You want to educate them at reduced rates now just in case.

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 07:02 PM
I've been saying since the beginning that they should become naturalized citizens at the same time that they get the discounted education, after which time they would presumably vote like everyone else.

:rolleyes: some posts leave me speechless, and my fingers typeless~

Iz Zat Chew
06-13-2012, 07:03 PM
There should be virtually NO illegals. If we fixed the broken system that makes it easier to be an illegal then to be here legally, the problem would go away. Too many racists and lazy status quo bureaucrats involved at this point.

Why would someone that doesn't want illegals here be racist? What's wrong with the status quo? Someone created a manner of imigrating to the U.S. and it's been done successfully for a very long time. If we don't live by the status quo, as in should you decide to rob a bank because it's become a popular thing to do would you expect law enforcement to turn their back on your act?

In a way, that's what's beign offered up. The worst part of the illegal immigrants that I see is that there is a federal law that is not being enforced. Arizona tried to write their own law, very closely patterned after the federal law and the federal government sues the state over the law. There is something wrong when the government (obama) takes the side of lawbreakers over law abiding citizens.

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 07:08 PM
Why would someone that doesn't want illegals here be racist? What's wrong with the status quo? Someone created a manner of imigrating to the U.S. and it's been done successfully for a very long time. If we don't live by the status quo, as in should you decide to rob a bank because it's become a popular thing to do would you expect law enforcement to turn their back on your act?

In a way, that's what's beign offered up. The worst part of the illegal immigrants that I see is that there is a federal law that is not being enforced. Arizona tried to write their own law, very closely patterned after the federal law and the federal government sues the state over the law. There is something wrong when the government (obama) takes the side of lawbreakers over law abiding citizens.

No, I did not say everyone who is against illegal immigration is a racist. I said that there are plenty of racists who do not want to make it easier for people to come to the US legally. They simply don't like or fear brown people.

So you like the status quo? That's fine. I think it's backwards and completely broken. It's similar to the "drug war" and countless other wastes of time/money/resources that fail to look at the bigger picture.

SNR
06-13-2012, 07:34 PM
So you like the status quo? That's fine. I think it's backwards and completely broken. It's similar to the "drug war" and countless other wastes of time/money/resources that fail to look at the bigger picture.

So you think it's good if the US encourages meth addiction? /Tom

Aries Walker
06-13-2012, 07:45 PM
Okay. You want to educate them at reduced rates now just in case.

:rolleyes: some posts leave me speechless, and my fingers typeless~

I don't get the mind-numbing shock. We start with a kid whose parent brought him here at 15 at the oldest. He's been living in Colorado for at least three years, has graduated high school and now wants to go to college.

Option 1, as it is: He's "out-of-state" because he's illegal. Charge him $30,000 per year instead of $9,000, which he probably be able to afford, so he doesn't go.

Option 2: Pass the bill. Now he pays $11,000/year, which is doable, but in doing so we're ignoring his illegal status. That doesn't fly.

Option 3, my idea: Citizenship. He'd still pay the extra $2,000 per year until he became naturalized. One less illegal alien, one more college graduate, costing the government $2,000 per year less than it would any other Colorado resident.

It's just an idea, but it's better than just shouting insults at the State Capitol building.

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 07:51 PM
I don't get the mind-numbing shock. We start with a kid whose parent brought him here at 15 at the oldest. He's been living in Colorado for at least three years, has graduated high school and now wants to go to college.

Option 1, as it is: He's "out-of-state" because he's illegal. Charge him $30,000 per year instead of $9,000, which he probably be able to afford, so he doesn't go.

Option 2: Pass the bill. Now he pays $11,000/year, which is doable, but in doing so we're ignoring his illegal status. That doesn't fly.

Option 3, my idea: Citizenship. He'd still pay the extra $2,000 per year until he became naturalized. One less illegal alien, one more college graduate, costing the government $2,000 per year less than it would any other Colorado resident.

It's just an idea, but it's better than just shouting insults at the State Capitol building.

How about we take care of our own, and take steps to remove those here who should not be?

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 07:55 PM
How about we take care of our own, and take steps to remove those here who should not be?

OR.. we make those who are willing to go to college and become skilled assets... our own. College degree or willingness to get a college degree should damn near automatically get you citizenship. I don;t give a damn about helping the poor mistreated immigrants or any other sob story bullshit.. I simply want to enrich America with hard working, educated people. They are an ASSET.

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 07:58 PM
OR.. we make those who are willing to go to college and become skilled assets... our own. College degree or willingness to get a college degree should damn near automatically get you citizenship. I don;t give a damn about helping the poor mistreated immigrants or any other sob story bullshit.. I simply want to enrich America with hard working, educated people. They are an ASSET.

How about they pay the same as disadvantaged kids born here? I see no reason to reward them~

Donger
06-13-2012, 08:02 PM
People who would be eligible for this came here as an illegal when they were kids. They probably didn't have a lot of choice in the matter.

That's true. The onus is on the parents.

Donger
06-13-2012, 08:04 PM
The family that used to live across the street went back a year ago because they couldn't find work anymore.

Good. Did you throw them a going away party?

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 08:05 PM
How about they pay the same as disadvantaged kids born here? I see no reason to reward them~

what disadvantaged kids? The out of state ones? Fuck them. They should be just fine going to a school in THEIR state. Going to an out of state school is a privilege for those with either money or the grades to get subsidized. Or are we talking about the ones in Colorado.. the ones who get cheaper tuition?

The kids we are talking about are IN STATE kids who happen to be illegal (through no fault of their own). The idea that they should pay out of state rates is ludicrous.

Donger
06-13-2012, 08:05 PM
I don't get the mind-numbing shock. We start with a kid whose parent brought him here at 15 at the oldest. He's been living in Colorado for at least three years, has graduated high school and now wants to go to college.

Option 1, as it is: He's "out-of-state" because he's illegal. Charge him $30,000 per year instead of $9,000, which he probably be able to afford, so he doesn't go.

Option 2: Pass the bill. Now he pays $11,000/year, which is doable, but in doing so we're ignoring his illegal status. That doesn't fly.

Option 3, my idea: Citizenship. He'd still pay the extra $2,000 per year until he became naturalized. One less illegal alien, one more college graduate, costing the government $2,000 per year less than it would any other Colorado resident.

It's just an idea, but it's better than just shouting insults at the State Capitol building.

Or, arrest and deport him and his parents.

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 08:06 PM
Or, arrest and deport him and his parents.

yeah, cuz America doesn't need any more college graduates in the work force.

Just to be clear, I'd have no problem with a "drop out of college and get deported" clause.

Donger
06-13-2012, 08:08 PM
yeah, cuz America doesn't need any more college graduates in the work force.

Just to be clear, I'd have no problem with a "drop out of college and get deported" clause.

Sorry, but I didn't that listed as an option. It should be, not just for those attempting to get a college education.

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 08:10 PM
what disadvantaged kids? The out of state ones? **** them. They should be just fine going to a school in THEIR state. Going to an out of state school is a privilege for those with either money or the grades to get subsidized. Or are we talking about the ones in Colorado.. the ones who get cheaper tuition?

The kids we are talking about are IN STATE kids who happen to be illegal (through no fault of their own). The idea that they should pay out of state rates is ludicrous.

I have to admit that is a valid point~

Donger
06-13-2012, 08:12 PM
what disadvantaged kids? The out of state ones? **** them. They should be just fine going to a school in THEIR state. Going to an out of state school is a privilege for those with either money or the grades to get subsidized. Or are we talking about the ones in Colorado.. the ones who get cheaper tuition?

The kids we are talking about are IN STATE kids who happen to be illegal (through no fault of their own). The idea that they should pay out of state rates is ludicrous.

How about making the parents pay the difference?

KC native
06-13-2012, 08:13 PM
There should be virtually NO illegals. If we fixed the broken system that makes it easier to be an illegal then to be here legally, the problem would go away. Too many racists and lazy status quo bureaucrats involved at this point.

I completely agree. The system is broken. Fix the system and the problem disappears.

Iz Zat Chew
06-13-2012, 08:13 PM
No, I did not say everyone who is against illegal immigration is a racist. I said that there are plenty of racists who do not want to make it easier for people to come to the US legally. They simply don't like or fear brown people.

So you like the status quo? That's fine. I think it's backwards and completely broken. It's similar to the "drug war" and countless other wastes of time/money/resources that fail to look at the bigger picture.I'm not fully content with the status quo. There are legal aliens here that have been here for years that cannot become legal citizens for a myriad of reasons, most have to do with the former soviet block countries. To remove the obstacles that are no longer valid would be a start. I wouldn't call them backwards, but I would call many of them unnecessary.

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 08:13 PM
:rolleyes: some posts leave me speechless, and my fingers typeless~

We could definetely use more of those!

Iz Zat Chew
06-13-2012, 08:14 PM
I completely agree. The system is broken. Fix the system and the problem disappears.

How would you start to fix the system? If it starts with Amnesty that's the wrong starting point.

Iz Zat Chew
06-13-2012, 08:15 PM
We could definetely use more of those!

You are doing a damn fine job, just keep posting.

KC native
06-13-2012, 08:15 PM
Good. Did you throw them a going away party?

No, they were churchy types. We didn't really have much in common. If we were friends, I might have.

KC native
06-13-2012, 08:17 PM
How would you start to fix the system? If it starts with Amnesty that's the wrong starting point.

ROFL @ Tom Cash acting like he is interested in discussion.

ClevelandBronco
06-13-2012, 08:18 PM
I don't get the mind-numbing shock. We start with a kid whose parent brought him here at 15 at the oldest. He's been living in Colorado for at least three years, has graduated high school and now wants to go to college.

Option 1, as it is: He's "out-of-state" because he's illegal. Charge him $30,000 per year instead of $9,000, which he probably be able to afford, so he doesn't go.

Option 2: Pass the bill. Now he pays $11,000/year, which is doable, but in doing so we're ignoring his illegal status. That doesn't fly.

Option 3, my idea: Citizenship. He'd still pay the extra $2,000 per year until he became naturalized. One less illegal alien, one more college graduate, costing the government $2,000 per year less than it would any other Colorado resident.

It's just an idea, but it's better than just shouting insults at the State Capitol building.

For the moment, a path to citizenship is not on the table, so it makes no sense to consider it as part of the equation. The path to citizenship cannot be offered by the state of Colorado. Reduced tuition is, however, a state issue. If reduced tuition is offered by the state of Colorado, then Colorado would be more attractive as a destination for illegals. Unfortunately, I don't think that Colorado would be making a good bargain, and so I would oppose the plan.

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 08:23 PM
lambs bah bah

Good job little lamb, I have nothing to add, well bahed~

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 08:29 PM
I like to alter other people's posts without noting it

Kind of an a-hole thing to do.

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 08:36 PM
lambs BAH BAH!!!

I see by the caps this is some serious bahing~

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 08:46 PM
I see by the caps this is some serious bahing~

Pretty pathetic when you have to resort to altering my posts to try to make yourself look clever, and it still fails. What a loser.

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 08:56 PM
Pretty pathetic when you have to resort to altering my posts to try to make yourself look clever, and it still fails. What a loser.

LMAO you calling anything posted here..ever pathetic, is pathetic. You are the stick by which all pathetic posts are measured by you ****ing shitbag LMAO

cosmo20002
06-13-2012, 09:01 PM
LMAO you calling anything posted here..ever pathetic, is pathetic. You are the stick by which all pathetic posts are measured by you ****ing shitbag LMAO

You're altering quotes. Look in the mirror, loser.

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 09:04 PM
I completely agree. The system is broken. Fix the system and the problem disappears.

It's funny how people can ignore the REALITY out of fear, racism or simply a false sense of "someone getting away with something."

RedNeckRaider
06-13-2012, 09:06 PM
lambs BAH BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO

Donger
06-13-2012, 09:10 PM
It's funny how people can ignore the REALITY out of fear, racism or simply a false sense of "someone getting away with something."

What reality is that?

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 09:15 PM
What reality is that?

That the current system is in horrible disrepair and is far more to blame for the "problem" then all those shifty brown people.

Donger
06-13-2012, 09:16 PM
That the current system is in horrible disrepair and is far more to blame for the "problem" then all those shifty brown people.

How is it broken (and I have no idea why you'd make the brown reference to me)?

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 09:23 PM
How is it broken (and I have no idea why you'd make the brown reference to me)?

That wasn't directed to you. It was directed to a vast majority of the anti-immigration crowd in the south... though they rarely admit it, it's pretty clear down here.

How is it broken? Haven't we had this discussion? It's far far far too difficult. It needs a shit load more automation and incentivization. It takes far too long. It is far too arbitrary. I could go on and on and on and on. There are THOUSAND UPON THOUSANDS of college graduates who finish out their student visas (graduate college) and head back home not because they want to but because they have to. That is just plain stupid to let that talent go.

Donger
06-13-2012, 09:30 PM
That wasn't directed to you. It was directed to a vast majority of the anti-immigration crowd in the south... though they rarely admit it, it's pretty clear down here.

Okay, since you wrote it response to me, I was naturally curious.

ow is it broken? Haven't we had this discussion? It's far far far too difficult. It needs a shit load more automation and incentivization. It takes far too long. It is far too arbitrary. I could go on and on and on and on. There are THOUSAND UPON THOUSANDS of college graduates who finish out their student visas (graduate college) and head back home not because they want to but because they have to. That is just plain stupid to let that talent go.

I don't know if we've had this discussion.

I'm of the opinion that becoming a naturalized US citizen SHOULD be a long, challenging process. Perhaps not as expensive as it is (or was), but American citizenship is a gift that should be earned, not given away. Certainly not in the form of amnesty. I'm actually coming around (admittedly in fits and spurts) to supporting The DREAM ACT, however.

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 09:42 PM
I'm of the opinion that becoming a naturalized US citizen SHOULD be a long, challenging process. Perhaps not as expensive as it is (or was), but American citizenship is a gift that should be earned, not given away. Certainly not in the form of amnesty. I'm actually coming around (admittedly in fits and spurts) to supporting The DREAM ACT, however.

I'm 100% behind the DREAM ACT but it only takes care of some of the problem.

I agree with earning citizenship... but the current process is ridiculous and wasteful. I think there needs to be a clear simple process that benefits immigrants as well as the US in general. Let me see if I can find my past posts on this...

Donger
06-13-2012, 09:46 PM
I'm 100% behind the DREAM ACT but it only takes care of some of the problem.

I agree with earning citizenship... but the current process is ridiculous and wasteful. I think there needs to be a clear simple process that benefits immigrants as well as the US in general. Let me see if I can find my past posts on this...

There IS a process for LEGAL immigration. Is it clear? Yes. Is it simple? No. But those who go through it are much more likely to be decent, contributing citizens than those who get whatever fast and easy process you'd propose.

Oh and please don't lump all types of immigrants into one group.

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 09:52 PM
There IS a process for LEGAL immigration. Is it clear? Yes. Is it simple? No. But those who go through it are much more likely to be decent, contributing citizens than those who get whatever fast and easy process you'd propose.

Oh and please don't lump all types of immigrants into one group.

Your thinking on immigration is very similar to the logic behind the gun control crowd. You criminalize gun ownership and all you do is either turn gun owners into criminals or create a situation where only the criminal element have guns. Our current immigration law has stifled immigration from a lot of "good people" and also turned desperate but otherwise "good people" into criminals.

I just can't see how you aren't seeing this.

Yes there is a legal process and it sucks ass. It's a complete clusterfuck that discourages LEGAL immigration... which WE NEED.

Donger
06-13-2012, 09:54 PM
Your thinking on immigration is very similar to the logic behind the gun control crowd. You criminalize gun ownership and all you do is either turn gun owners into criminals or create a situation where only the criminal element have guns. Our current immigration law has stifled immigration from a lot of "good people" and also turned desperate but otherwise "good people" into criminals.

I just can't see how you aren't seeing this.

Yes there is a legal process and it sucks ass. It's a complete cluster**** that discourages LEGAL immigration... which WE NEED.

It doesn't discourage legal immigration. What it encourages is legal immigration by those immigrants who WANT to be Americans. Those people who are willing to go through the process in order to gain the gift of being able to call themselves Americans. Trust me, I know.

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 10:01 PM
It doesn't discourage legal immigration. What it encourages is legal immigration by those immigrants who WANT to be Americans. Those people who are willing to go through the process in order to gain the gift of being able to call themselves Americans. Trust me, I know.

OK, to clear things up.. as I stated in this thread where we had this same discussion...
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=259446

I need to be clearer on resident alien vs citizen. It needs to be far far far easier to become a legal resident alien and then you would be given a clear cut "ladder" to citizenship. I am not advocating giving out citizenship easily. As a matter of fact, my system would probably be more stringent in that regard.

Right now the system is fundamentally broken in that it's too easy to go from resident alien to citizen and far too hard to get resident alien status. It's ass backwards.

Donger
06-13-2012, 10:12 PM
OK, to clear things up.. as I stated in this thread where we had this same discussion...
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=259446

I need to be clearer on resident alien vs citizen. It needs to be far far far easier to become a legal resident alien and then you would be given a clear cut "ladder" to citizenship. I am not advocating giving out citizenship easily. As a matter of fact, my system would probably be more stringent in that regard.

Right now the system is fundamentally broken in that it's too easy to go from resident alien to citizen and far too hard to get resident alien status. It's ass backwards.

I'm not going through all that. Unless something has changed, the process to a green card isn't tortuous. Yes, once you have the card, you have to wait five years (again, unless something has changed) but so what?

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 10:23 PM
I'm not going through all that. Unless something has changed, the process to a green card isn't tortuous. Yes, once you have the card, you have to wait five years (again, unless something has changed) but so what?

I have no problem with the waiting after the green card. I'd even lengthen it then put incentives in there that could speed up the process. Public service types of things possibly.

Where you are wrong is on the GETTING of a green card. It is far far far too difficult and THAT is where the system is broken. If it were easy, we wouldn't have a vast majority of our illegals... they'd just get the damn green card. THEN your leftover illegals would truly be ILLEGALS, a criminal class that we should persecute and be harsh as hell on.

Donger
06-13-2012, 10:26 PM
I have no problem with the waiting after the green card. I'd even lengthen it then put incentives in there that could speed up the process. Public service types of things possibly.

Where you are wrong is on the GETTING of a green card. It is far far far too difficult and THAT is where the system is broken. If it were easy, we wouldn't have a vast majority of our illegals... they'd just get the damn green card. THEN your leftover illegals would truly be ILLEGALS, a criminal class that we should persecute and be harsh as hell on.

Yes, we place restrictions on the type, quality and number of people we allow to become permanent residents. Specifically, those who have skills and can make an immediate and beneficial impact on our country.

What is wrong with that?

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 10:30 PM
Yes, we place restrictions on the type, quality and number of people we allow to become permanent residents. Specifically, those who have skills and can make an immediate and beneficial impact on our country.

What is wrong with that?

Nothing .. if all of that WORKED as you seem to think it does. Maybe it was just super easy for you... I don't know... but in most cases it's such a hassle and also is so limited that the entire process breaks down. We are bleeding engineers from our universities and it's not because we don't WANT them to stay... our immigration system simply doesn't make it possible for a vast majority of them. THAT is a broken system.

Donger
06-13-2012, 10:35 PM
Nothing .. if all of that WORKED as you seem to think it does. Maybe it was just super easy for you... I don't know... but in most cases it's such a hassle and also is so limited that the entire process breaks down. We are bleeding engineers from our universities and it's not because we don't WANT them to stay... our immigration system simply doesn't make it possible for a vast majority of them. THAT is a broken system.

No, I assure you it wasn't easy.

Are we bleeding engineers because they have better opportunities in their home country versus here? If so, that isn't a symptom of the immigration process being broken at all.

And that being said, I don't see what that has to do with the legal immigration process being broken either.

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 10:38 PM
No, I assure you it wasn't easy.

Are we bleeding engineers because they have better opportunities in their home country versus here? If so, that isn't a symptom of the immigration process being broken at all.

And that being said, I don't see what that has to do with the legal immigration process being broken either.

No, they are not leaving due to other jobs.. they want to stay (and even HAVE jobs) but simply can't get permission to do so. That is a broken system.

Donger
06-13-2012, 10:43 PM
No, they are not leaving due to other jobs.. they want to stay (and even HAVE jobs) but simply can't get permission to do so. That is a broken system.

Oh, well I'm all for fixing that.

AustinChief
06-13-2012, 11:10 PM
Oh, well I'm all for fixing that.

I don't know anyone who doesn't agree that we need to fix that part of the issue... but no one has the political will to do a damn thing about it.

Aries Walker
06-13-2012, 11:40 PM
The path to citizenship cannot be offered by the state of Colorado. Reduced tuition is, however, a state issue.
This is a valid point. With the citizenship being a federal issue and the tuition rates being a Colorado state issue, it would be impractical to combine the two, without making it a, well, federal issue.

However, I still think that in general, the focus of illegal immigrants should not be in hurrying to arrest them and mail them all back to their nation of origin en masse, but to offer them an achievable but defined path to citizenship; in short, the DREAM act.

. . . which should be law right now, except for the Republican filibuster, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

Chiefshrink
06-14-2012, 08:00 AM
Yes, but you just lied. That undermines everything you just said.

You said that, under the proposed Colorado bill (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20464883/colorado-tuition-bill-illegal-immigrants-clears-house-committee), illegal immigrants would be paying less than an in-state residents. The truth is they would be paying more.

I admit that I'm assuming that you had yourself read about the bill before posting about it, and you weren't just parroting what you heard some reactionary Republican demagogue recently preach. With that said, your claim about the Colorado bill must have been a very simple and obvious deliberate misrepresentation of the facts - commonly known as a bald-faced lie - that you got caught telling.

Are you now saying you did this on purpose, so you can show the world how the liberal left lies by lying yourself? Did you plan to get called out on it? Were you going to reveal your cunning plan if no one had looked it up? None of that seems to make much sense, but then again, I'm a historian, not a psychologist. So please, Mr. Knows About These Sort Of Things, explain it to me.

I really, really want to know how this tactic works.

Ahhhhhh you get it !!:thumb:

And yes this technique works:thumb: You cherry pick out of context on purpose to get the other side to see how their behavior effects that person they are dealing with. I use it sparingly because it is not needed most of the time but when the narcissism is thick as molasses in winter time(you know, it's NEVER their fault whether child/parent/parents) and that person or persons AREN'T getting it, it usually wakes them up. And explain later to keep the trust intact once the light bulb goes.

Chiefshrink
06-14-2012, 08:04 AM
The bill would create a new category of tuition for illegal immigrants higher than in-state tuition but lower than out-of-state tuition.

Correct. So, will someone who supports this policy explain/justify it?

Still grains of truth of which I said. Why still should illegal immigrants pay less than even out of state students. Doesn't make sense unless of course your are a Dem.:rolleyes:

Iz Zat Chew
06-14-2012, 08:23 AM
Still grains of truth of which I said. Why still should illegal immigrants pay less than even out of state students. Doesn't make sense unless of course your are a Dem.:rolleyes:

Isn't Mexico "out of state"?

Aries Walker
06-14-2012, 08:59 AM
Ahhhhhh you get it !!:thumb:

And yes this technique works:thumb: You cherry pick out of context on purpose to get the other side to see how their behavior effects that person they are dealing with. I use it sparingly because it is not needed most of the time but when the narcissism is thick as molasses in winter time(you know, it's NEVER their fault whether child/parent/parents) and that person or persons AREN'T getting it, it usually wakes them up. And explain later to keep the trust intact once the light bulb goes.
Well, as I said, I'm no psychologist, so I'll take your word for it that that technique works during parent-child counseling sessions. If I may suggest, however, that that technique would and did go over like a lead balloon in an online message board context. I seriously doubt anyone had a 'light-bulb' moment due to your implementation, and all it did was foster distrust, undermine any other argument you've made, and make everyone here think you're a tremendous liar who got caught telling a big fat one.

I recommend not using such esoteric tactics, and stick with a very simple one: tell the truth. It works better.

KC native
06-14-2012, 10:26 AM
Well, as I said, I'm no psychologist, so I'll take your word for it that that technique works during parent-child counseling sessions. If I may suggest, however, that that technique would and did go over like a lead balloon in an online message board context. I seriously doubt anyone had a 'light-bulb' moment due to your implementation, and all it did was foster distrust, undermine any other argument you've made, and make everyone here think you're a tremendous liar who got caught telling a big fat one.

I recommend not using such esoteric tactics, and stick with a very simple one: tell the truth. It works better.

SS isn't a psychologist either.

Aries Walker
06-14-2012, 02:01 PM
I have no reason to think he isn't.

Chiefshrink
06-14-2012, 09:58 PM
Well, as I said, I'm no psychologist, so I'll take your word for it that that technique works during parent-child counseling sessions. If I may suggest, however, that that technique would and did go over like a lead balloon in an online message board context. I seriously doubt anyone had a 'light-bulb' moment due to your implementation, and all it did was foster distrust, undermine any other argument you've made, and make everyone here think you're a tremendous liar who got caught telling a big fat one.

I recommend not using such esoteric tactics, and stick with a very simple one: tell the truth. It works better.

Hey, desperate times call for desperate measures especially dealing with Liberal narcissism and I knew it probably would go right over an Obot's head, but I thought I would take a chance.:shrug:

:hmmm: 15K for an out of state legal citizen and 7K for an illegal immigrant. This is the truth BUT not the whole context of the truth but still it backs up my more than half off for illegals. Just pointing out what OBLAMO does every damn day:rolleyes:

cosmo20002
06-14-2012, 10:08 PM
15K for an out of state legal citizen and 7K for an illegal immigrant. This is the truth BUT not the whole context of the truth but still it backs up my more than half off for illegals.

Except you quite clearly said they pay 1/2 of the in-state tuition. So, now you are lying about what you lied about. Who thought you could actually get worse? Never underestimate you, I guess.

Chiefshrink
06-14-2012, 11:03 PM
Except you quite clearly said they pay 1/2 of the in-state tuition. So, now you are lying about what you lied about. Who thought you could actually get worse? Never underestimate you, I guess.

I initially switched the facts contextually on purpose to create the 'initial outrage' which is what Obama does every damn day to his political advantage that he NEVER has to walk back so the uneducated never get the whole truth in context. That is where I Obama'd you(or cherry picked out of context) and yes there is actually more than 1/2 off for illegals 'it's just not initially accurately compared to the 'out-of staters' but rather to the 'in-staters' to create the initial outrage .

C'mon Orange you are a Marxist and you should know that lying is essential to implementing a Communist society. You know, "the ends justify the means" thing? Dude, don't play stupid here. Karl is your Jesus and 'The Communist Manifesto' is your bible and your new testament is "Rules for Radicals" with Alinsky being your apostle paul. So don't tell me you don't believe in god:D Just kidding of course nothing personal.

Just like when OMarxist deceives on the numbers about the Oil reserves and our consumption, economic numbers, jobs numbers(4 million new jobs:rolleyes:) shortage of teachers, police officers, firefighters etc..... As the fear mongering goes on !!!!:rolleyes:

Brock
06-15-2012, 11:21 AM
I initially switched the facts contextually on purpose

If that's another way of saying you lied, I agree.

Fish
06-15-2012, 11:30 AM
I initially switched the facts contextually on purpose to create the 'initial outrage' which is what Obama does every damn day to his political advantage that he NEVER has to walk back so the uneducated never get the whole truth in context. That is where I Obama'd you.
.
.
.
.

LMAO... Wow.....

Aries Walker
06-15-2012, 11:34 AM
I initially switched the facts contextually on purpose to create the 'initial outrage' which is what Obama does every damn day to his political advantage that he NEVER has to walk back so the uneducated never get the whole truth in context. That is where I Obama'd you(or cherry picked out of context) and yes there is actually more than 1/2 off for illegals 'it's just not initially accurately compared to the 'out-of staters' but rather to the 'in-staters' to create the initial outrage .
So, Colorado lawmakers are intentionally misrepresenting the facts on orders from Obama? And given that the reason in-state tuition is lower is to increase the education of your own state's residents, why wouldn't illegal teenagers who live in Colorado be compared to legal teenagers who live in Colorado, and not ones who live elsewhere?

You're trying to obfuscate the facts with standard Obama name-calling and this ridiculous notion that you meant to lie. I have a really hard time believing that, if you had not been caught, you would have admitted to it.

C'mon Orange you are a Marxist and you should know that lying is essential to implementing a Communist society. You know, "the ends justify the means" thing? Dude, don't play stupid here. Karl is your Jesus and 'The Communist Manifesto' is your bible and your new testament is "Rules for Radicals" with Alinsky being your apostle paul. So don't tell me you don't believe in god:D Just kidding of course nothing personal.
More name-calling, this time with the "Just kidding" negation phrase. Also, "The ends justify the means" is Machiavellian, not Marxist.

Just like when OMarxist deceives on the numbers about the Oil reserves and our consumption, economic numbers, jobs numbers(4 million new jobs:rolleyes:) shortage of teachers, police officers, firefighters etc..... As the fear mongering goes on !!!!:rolleyes:
And more groundless accusation.

You're not making your case very well here.

Chiefshrink
06-21-2012, 12:05 AM
So, Colorado lawmakers are intentionally misrepresenting the facts on orders from Obama? And given that the reason in-state tuition is lower is to increase the education of your own state's residents, why wouldn't illegal teenagers who live in Colorado be compared to legal teenagers who live in Colorado, and not ones who live elsewhere?

You're trying to obfuscate the facts with standard Obama name-calling and this ridiculous notion that you meant to lie. I have a really hard time believing that, if you had not been caught, you would have admitted to it.


More name-calling, this time with the "Just kidding" negation phrase. Also, "The ends justify the means" is Machiavellian, not Marxist.


And more groundless accusation.

You're not making your case very well here.

You are going to believe what you are going to believe thus so be it. That is fine. I did intend to admit to the 'contextual lie' in order to make a point if no one had called my cards. You don't believe that. That's fine.

I did not say "The ends justify the means" originated from Marx. However, Marx adopts this same philosophy from the 16th Century Prince.

cosmo20002
06-21-2012, 12:09 AM
You are going to believe what you are going to believe thus so be it. That is fine. I did intend to admit to the 'contextual lie' in order to make a point if no one had called my cards. You don't believe that. That's fine.



ROFL Yeah, right! ROFL

Your posts are so insanely ludicrous that I forgot you are a blatant liar as well. Thanks for reminding me.

La literatura
06-21-2012, 12:20 AM
I did not say "The ends justify the means" originated from Marx. However, Marx adopts this same philosophy from the 16th Century Prince.

Which 16th Century Prince was that?

And where did Marx adopt that philosophical statement? Can you point to anything he wrote that suggests he adopted that philosophy (because I can point you to a statement where he explicitly rejects that statement)? Do you know anything at all about Karl Marx, other than he was a communist? Have you ever read anything by him? Any scholarship about him?

La literatura
06-21-2012, 10:45 PM
You are going to believe what you are going to believe thus so be it. That is fine. I did intend to admit to the 'contextual lie' in order to make a point if no one had called my cards. You don't believe that. That's fine.

I did not say "The ends justify the means" originated from Marx. However, Marx adopts this same philosophy from the 16th Century Prince.

Which 16th Century Prince was that?

And where did Marx adopt that philosophical statement? Can you point to anything he wrote that suggests he adopted that philosophy (because I can point you to a statement where he explicitly rejects that statement)? Do you know anything at all about Karl Marx, other than he was a communist? Have you ever read anything by him? Any scholarship about him?

sportsshrink, you are a gutless, ignorant coward.

vailpass
06-22-2012, 11:51 AM
sportsshrink, you are a gutless, ignorant coward.

LMAO Pencil neck says what?

Iz Zat Chew
06-22-2012, 12:07 PM
sportsshrink, you are a gutless, ignorant coward.

LMAO Pencil neck says what?

That does seem to resemble most of the comebacks by Cosmo, heh, I think he/they have been exposed.

cosmo20002
06-22-2012, 12:30 PM
LMAO Pencil neck says what?

Ha ha! Nailed him! The "______ says what?" cracks are classic. :thumb:

vailpass
06-22-2012, 12:32 PM
Ha ha! Nailed him! The "______ says what?" cracks are classic. :thumb:

Are you Jensen? Literature?

Iz Zat Chew
06-22-2012, 12:33 PM
Ha ha! Nailed him! The "______ says what?" cracks are classic. :thumb:

You couldn't nail anything. If you tried you'd hit the nail right on your thumb.

cosmo20002
06-22-2012, 12:34 PM
That does seem to resemble most of the comebacks by Cosmo, heh, I think he/they have been exposed.

Iz! I think we agree on something! The "____ says what?" thing is pretty effing stupid.

Also, I don't care what you say about me, but no one deserves to be compared to vilepuss.

Iz Zat Chew
06-22-2012, 12:34 PM
Are you Jensen? Literature?

Seems to be the case. The mix between the name calling and deflections when confronted does implicate the triplets in one.

Iz Zat Chew
06-22-2012, 12:36 PM
Iz! I think we agree on something! The "____ says what?" thing is pretty effing stupid.

Also, I don't care what you say about me, but no one deserves to be compared to vilepuss.

It seems like you were got, your reaction seems to be the same as Obama when he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Now all you got to do is invoke EP so you don't have to fess up to being all three posters. ROFL

cosmo20002
06-22-2012, 12:37 PM
You couldn't nail anything. If you tried you'd hit the nail right on your thumb.

Well, according to the other thread, YOU can't nail anything. Not unless someone was holding the nail for you.

Iz Zat Chew
06-22-2012, 12:41 PM
Well, according to the other thread, YOU can't nail anything. Not unless someone was holding the nail for you.

Ever hear of a prosthesis?