PDA

View Full Version : Computers Microsoft to Unveil 7-inch Xbox Surface Tablet


Mr. Laz
06-18-2012, 06:31 PM
Microsoft to Unveil 7-inch Xbox Surface Tablet at Today’s Event?

Posted by iPhoneHacks on Jun 18, 2012 | 1 Comment

Few days back, we reported that Microsoft had sent an invite for a media event today. However, Microsoft didn't provide any other details about the event other than saying "This will be a major Microsoft announcement — you will not want to miss it".

It is being widely speculated that Microsoft is gearing up to launch its own Windows 8 tablet to take on Apple's iPad.

According to LiveSide.net who claim to have received specs sheet from a source, Microsoft will unveil a 7-inch tablet controller along with Xbox hardware, which could be called Xbox Surface.

The purported tech specs reveals that the 7-inch tablet will be powered by an ARM processor from Texas Instruments for "Kinect workloads," as well as custom IBM engine for "scale out." According to the leaked specs it would come with a 1280x720 resolution display.

Microsoft was rumored to launch a Smartglass tablet at E3 show, but that didn't turn out to be accurate as Microsoft unveiled the impressive SmartGlass software that will provide users with additional information about a TV show, game, or other Xbox content on a second screen, like a tablet or smartphone. Microsoft has announced that it will be also releasing apps for iOS and Android.

We're assuming that in addition to being a controller for the Xbox, Xbox Surface or whatever it is called will also work as a full-fledged tablet. Experts believe that Microsoft is developing its own tablet to be able to compete with Apple's tight integration rather than entering the booming tablet market only through its traditional hardware partners.

Check out the leaked specs of the 7-inch tablet controller below, they look quite impressive.

http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Xbox-Surface-Specs_thumb.jpg

BigMeatballDave
06-18-2012, 06:34 PM
1440p?

So, 1080p isn't Full HD after all.

Hydrae
06-18-2012, 06:44 PM
I am following a live blog which is complete with pics...http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/live-blog-microsoft-set-major-announcement-212504834.html

Hydrae
06-18-2012, 06:46 PM
1.5 lb Tablet, has a lower OS and also a Windows 8 Pro version.

Big item, full keyboard built into the cover, complete with touchpad.

SnakeXJones
06-18-2012, 06:47 PM
Probably fail like the phone

Deberg_1990
06-18-2012, 06:48 PM
Wow, welcome to 3 years ago Microsoft!

Mr. Laz
06-18-2012, 06:49 PM
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/article_label_fileunder.gif Tablet PCs (http://www.engadget.com/topics/tabletpcs),
Microsoft one ups other tablet 'smart' covers with Surface's keyboard and touchpad folio

By Terrence O'Brien (http://www.engadget.com/editor/terrence-obrien) http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/writer_rss.gif (http://www.engadget.com/editor/terrence-obrien/rss.xml) posted Jun 18th 2012 7:35PM
Breaking News (http://www.engadget.com/breaking/#latest)

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/post_icon_photo.gif (http://www.engadget.com/galleries/)


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsofttablet0104.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/microsoft-one-ups-other-tablet-smart-covers-with-surfaces-key/)

What's 3mm thick, crafted from the finest Polartec and attaches to a tablet magnetically? If you guessed an iPad smart cover you might be right, but right now we're pretty enamored with Microsoft's Surface cover. See, it works almost exactly like that other "smart" table shield, but this one actually earns it's smart moniker. When you peel the plastic shroud back it turns into a fully functional keyboard and touchpad. Obviously, being a thin plastic sheet the cover is relying on touch for key presses, not the actual depression of mechanical switches. So, while that means it's theoretically possible to touchtype on this bad boy, it remains to be seen just how pleasant of an experience it actually is. Our guess -- it'll be fine for quick emails and <strike>Google</strike> Bing searches, but we probably wouldn't have to write the Surface review on one.
Developing...

Microsoft Surface Cover (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-cover/)
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoft-surface-cover-1_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-cover/#5101468) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoft-surface-cover-2_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-cover/#5101469) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoft-surface-cover-3_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-cover/#5101470) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoft-surface-cover-4_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-cover/#5101471) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoft-surface-cover-5_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-cover/#5101472)

BigMeatballDave
06-18-2012, 06:50 PM
Wow, welcome to 3 years ago Microsoft!
Huh?

QuikSsurfer
06-18-2012, 07:00 PM
http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/publishingimages/new/gallery_1_large.jpg

http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/publishingimages/new/gallery_2_large.jpg

http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/publishingimages/new/gallery_3_large.jpg

http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/publishingimages/new/gallery_4_large.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/58mOV.png

QuikSsurfer
06-18-2012, 07:02 PM
and no pricing? lol

Deberg_1990
06-18-2012, 07:03 PM
Huh?

I meant they are 2 or 3 years behind Apple trying to play catch up.

Mr. Laz
06-18-2012, 07:07 PM
and no pricing? lol
to be fair, shelf release and price is usually the last info to break

QuikSsurfer
06-18-2012, 07:09 PM
to be fair, shelf release and price is usually the last info to break

Ehhh.. no pricing and no availability information... looks good though -- that cover is pretty fucking awesome.

and before the haters jump in:
This won't make a dent in Apple sales... But Android tablet is in serious trouble.

morphius
06-18-2012, 07:15 PM
I've thought is was a mistake from day one for MS to not link their phones to the xbox instead of their uninspiring computer os.

notorious
06-18-2012, 07:25 PM
Finally.

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 07:33 PM
Ehhh.. no pricing and no availability information... looks good though -- that cover is pretty fucking awesome.

and before the haters jump in:
This won't make a dent in Apple sales... But Android tablet is in serious trouble.

Not really. They'll take a small chunk away from both segments in the consumer sector. The place where they could really kill it is in the corporate sector. If they are smart, that's where they focus heavily and hope to trickle down to consumers from there.

QuikSsurfer
06-18-2012, 07:43 PM
Not really. They'll take a small chunk away from both segments in the consumer sector. The place where they could really kill it is in the corporate sector. If they are smart, that's where they focus heavily and hope to trickle down to consumers from there.

Nah. Android tablets were shit to begin with -- they'll (MS) be taking a lot more than a "small chunk".

Mr. Laz
06-18-2012, 08:10 PM
also a 10-inch tablet today

===================
Hands-on with Microsoft Surface for Windows RT, Touch Cover and Type Cover

By Dana Wollman (http://www.engadget.com/editor/dana-wollman) http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/writer_rss.gif (http://www.engadget.com/editor/dana-wollman/rss.xml) posted Jun 18th 2012 8:43PM
Hands-On (http://www.engadget.com/tag/hands-on)

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/post_icon_photo.gif (http://www.engadget.com/galleries/)


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoftsurfacewindowsrtlead01.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/hands-on-with-microsoft-surface-for-windows-rt/)

We're here live at Microsoft's press event in Los Angeles, where it just unveiled not just the rumored tablet you were hoping for, but two tablets: Surface for Windows RT (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/microsoft-tablet-announced/), which has an NVIDIA chip inside, and Surface for Windows 8 Pro (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/microsoft-announces-surface-for-windows-8-pro/), which runs off Ultrabook-grade Ivy Bridge processors. (Yes, Surface here is the name of a tablet line, not software optimized for large touchscreens. Get that out of your system now.) Though the two differ slightly in dimensions, with the Pro model measuring in slightly thicker, both have a slim kickstand, about as thick as a credit card, that folds out of the backside like the tail of a photo frame. Both are made of magnesium and, perhaps most importantly, work with either of two magnetic covers that double as keyboards (one with multitouch input, and one with physical, three-dimensional keys). No word on pricing -- just that Surface for Windows RT will cost about what you'll end up paying for other Windows RT tablets, and that the Pro version will fetch similar prices as Ultrabooks. We saw Surface for RT as well as both keyboard on display at the demo area here following Microsoft's big press event. We've got a gallery of hands-on shots below, which we'll be updating shortly. In the meantime, find impressions past the break, and expect us to chime in with more detailed thoughts there too.

Microsoft Surface for Windows RT (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-for-windows-rt/)

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoftsurfacewindowsrt01_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-for-windows-rt/#5101793) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoftsurfacewindowsrt02_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-for-windows-rt/#5101794) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoftsurfacewindowsrt03_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-for-windows-rt/#5101795) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoftsurfacewindowsrt04_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-for-windows-rt/#5101796) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/microsoftsurfacewindowsrt05_103x88.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/photos/microsoft-surface-for-windows-rt/#5101797)

Hardware

None of this might make sense until you touch one yourself, but it's our job to at least help you understand: the Surface really is as rigid and lightweight as Microsoft's executive team promised us it would be. The magnesium casing makes it wholly inflexible, and we mean that in the best possible way. As thin and light as it is (9.3mm / 1.5 pounds, to be exact), there isn't a hint of give in the whole chassis. Were it not for fear of scratching that 10-inch, full HD display, we wouldn't have too many qualms about accidentally dropping it: the magnesium is as smooth and scratch-resistant as it is sturdy. Heck, even after dozens of tech writers picked it up, we didn't notice any fingerprints.

The kickstand, too, is as thin as they say (3mm thick on the RT model). It folds out in a controlled, reassuring motion; we're not worried about this snapping off. It also seems like it'll take a little more than a breath of air to make the whole thing knock over. Our first thought was that the stand looks like the fold-out back to a frame, but unlike a frame, which might fall face-down on your shelf, the tablet stayed put, even after rigorous handling from all the press here.

Display

After seeing so many 1366 x 768 Windows 8 tablets at Computex, we were all too pleased to lay eyes on a 1080p panel. It is indeed crisp, but you know what's even more impressive? The viewing angles. Try following along with a demo, standing off to the side while someone else has his turn taking photos from dead-center. Turns out, it's no so hard. Factor in that kickstand and you've got the ingredients for some easy movie watching between friends.

Performance

As for performance, we'll be honest: tech press were treated to about two minutes at each of several stations, some of which demoed design, and not so much the power that lies inside that thin frame. (Microsoft has only said that the ARM chip is made by NVIDIA. No one ever said it's a Tegra 3 SoC, but that is naturally our best bet.) Still, in our brief hands-on the optically bonded screen was incredibly responsive to our various taps and swipes. Fast, slick and very, very promising. Now if only we could see the Core i5-powered Pro model in action.

Keyboards

Unfortunately, we didn't get to see a working demo of the keyboards. As in, we weren't permitted to type sample sentences and feel what it's like to hammer out characters on a flat keyboard, or on keys that have just 1.5mm of travel. Still, they were on display in the demo area and we did get to, you know, put our fingers on them. Starting with the flat one (that'd be the Touch Cover), the keys have a slightly scratchy surface that seems like it would make one's fingers feel just a bit more anchored. Still, we're curious about the learning curve for a keyboard that's so... what's the opposite of "tactile"? Interestingly, with the Type Cover, the cushier of the two keyboards, it's still difficult at first blush to tell one key from another if you're not looking down at them. Each manufacturer has a different way of conserving space when building a set of keys for a 10-inch device, and it's clear that Microsoft decided using a chiclet layout would have been inefficient: the keys are packed fairly tightly, with the flat keycaps almost blending into one another.

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 08:11 PM
Nah. Android tablets were shit to begin with -- they'll (MS) be taking a lot more than a "small chunk".

You do know that CURRENTLY, Android accounts for around 50% of tablet sales in the US and a majority of sales worldwide, right? Ipad sales have dropped from 90% to 70% to now 50% in the US and will probably level off at around 15-20% just like all Apple products eventually do. Which is nothing to sneeze at from a single brand... but let's be realistic about the figures.

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 08:27 PM
The PRO version is pretty damn impressive. If they can keep the price within reach, it could seriously take off in the corporate world.

I have a Windows 7 tablet(old and super bulky) and an Android/WebOS tablet and I can say that there is a world of difference between having a fun convenient tablet that is basically a toy and a real working tablet with a big boy OS. Having a tablet that can run real programs could be huge for business.

Fish
06-18-2012, 08:40 PM
You do know that CURRENTLY, Android accounts for around 50% of tablet sales in the US and a majority of sales worldwide, right? Ipad sales have dropped from 90% to 70% to now 50% in the US and will probably level off at around 15-20% just like all Apple products eventually do. Which is nothing to sneeze at from a single brand... but let's be realistic about the figures.

Some are actually predicting the iPad to increase growth over the next few years...

Apple and its iPad are going to be the primary beneficiary of the market growth, according to IDC. In 2011, the iPad and its iOS operating system held 58.2 percent of the market. This year, that share will grow to 62.5 percent. That will come at the expense of tablets running Google’s Android operating system, which will see its share slip from 38.7 percent last year to 36.5 percent in 2012, the analysts said.
.
.
"Our current thinking, based upon early pricing expectations for these products, is that Windows-based tablets will be largely additive to our existing media tablet market forecast,” he said. “We don't expect Windows-based tablets to necessarily take share from Apple and Android, but will grow the overall tablet market."

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/iPad-to-Grow-Market-Share-Over-Android-Tablets-IDC-540056/

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/14/apple_ipad_to_gain_market_share_in_2012_at_expense_of_android.html

QuikSsurfer
06-18-2012, 08:41 PM
You do know that CURRENTLY, Android accounts for around 50% of tablet sales in the US and a majority of sales worldwide, right? Ipad sales have dropped from 90% to 70% to now 50% in the US and will probably level off at around 15-20% just like all Apple products eventually do. Which is nothing to sneeze at from a single brand... but let's be realistic about the figures.

The PRO version is pretty damn impressive. If they can keep the price within reach, it could seriously take off in the corporate world.

I have a Windows 7 tablet(old and super bulky) and an Android/WebOS tablet and I can say that there is a world of difference between having a fun convenient tablet that is basically a toy and a real working tablet with a big boy OS. Having a tablet that can run real programs could be huge for business.

I spit at these Android so called tablets! (and no I didn't know that)

The potential is definitely there for the corporate environment - cost has to be right. The Pro version seems to be the only one to support fully functional Windows. I've not been interested in tablets (though I have Android running on my nook color) til now. I setup iPads and HP tablets weekly.

DaveNull
06-18-2012, 08:44 PM
Why is the trackpad off center? Why is there a trackpad at all? How can they claim that people will type faster on a 3mm thick keyboard with little to no tactile feedback when the lack of tactile feedback is what makes typing on a touch screen a pain in the ass in the first place? Why fail to give a shipping date? Why not quote prices? Battery life? RAM capacity?

Why did they compromise so much? When I say compromise, I don't mean leaving things out...I mean throwing everything on there that someone in a meeting brought up?

Mr. Laz
06-18-2012, 08:45 PM
Why is the trackpad off center? Why is there a trackpad at all?
only a trackpad when using the cover

QuikSsurfer
06-18-2012, 08:48 PM
But how well does it run Diablo III?

DaveNull
06-18-2012, 08:51 PM
only a trackpad when using the cover

But why is it there in the first place? Why not get crazy and use this to declare that the Metro interface is the one true future for these kinds of devices and windows in general?

Mr. Laz
06-18-2012, 08:53 PM
But why is it there in the first place? Why not get crazy and use this to declare that the Metro interface is the one true future for these kinds of devices and windows in general?
i imagine it's because of the keyboard

When typing on a keying the trackpad is a closer and more natural place to move/tap/keep typing.

but hey ... i'm no M$ fanboi


just sayin'

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 08:54 PM
Some are actually predicting the iPad to increase growth over the next few years...



http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/iPad-to-Grow-Market-Share-Over-Android-Tablets-IDC-540056/

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/14/apple_ipad_to_gain_market_share_in_2012_at_expense_of_android.html

These are the same people who had similar predictions with the iPhone. Without a major strategy shift, it's simply won't happen.

#1 they don't take into account the effect of a true business tablet (which MS may finally have.. remains to be seen) they even admit as much saying they will have a new report later this year to deal with MS
#2 they base their numbers on major manufacturers and discount the worldwide "whitebox" sales which are massive in China and India.
#3 IDC is basing this entirely on opinion not on anything remotely close to hard data. The DATA shows a consistent downward trend in market share (except the small bumps that occur in the first month of a new product launch) yet IDC "thinks" that it's suddenly going to change? Based on what?

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 08:55 PM
But how well does it run Diablo III?

In theory the PRO version should run it quite well... it all depends on how they implement Windows 8.

DaveNull
06-18-2012, 08:59 PM
What are you basing that theory on? The dedicated graphics chip they didn't mention?

notorious
06-18-2012, 09:00 PM
Full windows + Tablet = Complete Win.

Mr. Laz
06-18-2012, 09:02 PM
Full windows + Tablet = Complete Win.
only if it doesn't have all the usual bloatware

notorious
06-18-2012, 09:04 PM
only if it doesn't have all the usual bloatware

Of course!

Mr. Laz
06-18-2012, 09:07 PM
Of course!but to this point M$ has stubbornly refuse to lean it out.

DaveNull
06-18-2012, 09:10 PM
Full windows + Tablet = Complete Win.

Guess you failed to hear about the full windows tablets that have been around since around 2003 then.

over 11,000 results (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=windows+tablet)

DaveNull
06-18-2012, 09:11 PM
but to this point M$ has stubbornly refuse to lean it out.

They see it's hurt their image...that's why they're doing the whole "signature" thing where you bring your new bloatware filled laptop to one of the two Microsoft stores and they re-image your laptop for you.

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 09:13 PM
Guess you failed to hear about the full windows tablets that have been around since around 2003 then.

over 11,000 results (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=windows+tablet)

yes yes, I have one... but this will be the first REAL TABLET with windows. Huge difference if MS does it right... which I will hold my opinion on until I actually see it.

Valiant
06-18-2012, 09:16 PM
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57446559-292/dual-screen-taichi-leads-lineup-of-unique-asus-windows-8-pcs/

I am interested in the asus taichi..

DaveNull
06-18-2012, 09:16 PM
How is it a REAL TABLET if it still comes with a touchpad, keyboard and a pointer driven UI?

Seems more like its a REALLY THIN TOUCH DISPLAY holding all the components with a REALLY THIN KEYBOARD

ILChief
06-18-2012, 09:17 PM
The only reasons that Android has any tablet market share at all are 1. The Kindle Fire and 2. Cheap POS's like this: http://www.biglots.com/search/product/8020

notorious
06-18-2012, 09:18 PM
yes yes, I have one... but this will be the first REAL TABLET with windows. Huge difference if MS does it right... which I will hold my opinion on until I actually see it.

This.

DaveNull
06-18-2012, 09:19 PM
How is it a REAL TABLET if it still comes with a touchpad, keyboard and a pointer driven UI?



Perhaps you can answer.

Mr. Laz
06-18-2012, 09:21 PM
How is it a REAL TABLET if it still comes with a touchpad, keyboard and a pointer driven UI?

Seems more like its a REALLY THIN TOUCH DISPLAY holding all the components with a REALLY THIN KEYBOARD

breathe in
breathe out

i'm sure they will charge extra for the cover so just don't buy one and you will never even see the touchpad and keyboard. It can all be just a bad dream for you.

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 09:22 PM
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57446559-292/dual-screen-taichi-leads-lineup-of-unique-asus-windows-8-pcs/

I am interested in the asus taichi..

What about the Transformer AIO?

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5898/1_575px.JPG

I can see the ads now... old clip of Crocodile Dundee with a little cgi and audio edit...

"That's not a tablet... THAT'S a tablet"

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 09:24 PM
Perhaps you can answer.

HUH? This is a TABLET first, with add ons .. just like the ASUS Transformer. Most of the old Windows 7 "tablets" are "convertibles" which made them far too clunky to be considered an everyday tablet.

This tablet is no different than an iPad (which you can also add a keyboard or touchpad to) except it has far superior hardware except for the display.

As for a pointer driven os... have you used Windows 8 on a tablet? Where exactly are you getting this idea? Hell, have you even used Win 7 on a tablet? It's actually not bad at all.

DaveNull
06-18-2012, 09:28 PM
So does that make Windows 8 a touch OS first even though it's being sold for traditional desktops and laptops?

The Transformer does look pretty cool. No Padfone...but still pretty cool.

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 10:18 PM
this article paints a different picture:

http://www.biglots.com/search/product/8020
http://www.biglots.com/search/product/8020

Um, the link to BigLots? :D

I check the ACTUAL data on this, not the crap that only counts the major manufacturers. Most of those research firms don't count whitebox manufacturers at all. Hell they don't even count smaller branded tablets... they look solely at guys like Samsung, Dell, HP, BN and Amazon. Which is fine if you realize that is only part of the overall picture.

A perfect example, last year in June 2011 what were most of the published figures saying about iPad market share? 76% or some such right? The actual figure was around 54%. (I think it ended up right at 50% by end of year)

It's important to distinguish between US and worldwide as well.

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 10:21 PM
So does that make Windows 8 a touch OS first even though it's being sold for traditional desktops and laptops?

The Transformer does look pretty cool. No Padfone...but still pretty cool.

There is absolutely no reason for an OS to not be capable of multiple UIs or GUIs. It's just silly to think otherwise. A perfect example is Linux. I can load up any number of GUIs some of which are touch centric.

I am NOT saying that MS got it right... I simply don't have enough info to make a judgment yet. They could have screwed the pooch.. but nothing so far says they did.

Guru
06-18-2012, 10:40 PM
Nah. Android tablets were shit to begin with -- they'll (MS) be taking a lot more than a "small chunk".

If you say so. I'll take an android tablet over an iOS device any day of the week.

QuikSsurfer
06-18-2012, 10:56 PM
If you say so. I'll take an android tablet over an iOS device any day of the week.

That's not at all what I was saying.
I'll take a fully functional Windows over both.

AustinChief
06-18-2012, 11:13 PM
That's not at all what I was saying.
I'll take a fully functional Windows over both.

Yup.

Honestly, a fully functioning windows tablet could blow the doors off the tablet market if done properly. Everyone says "I don't need that, I only use my tablet to watch videos or surf the web"... well , yeah of course.. because that's all the damn thing is good for. If we look at it a different way, if given the choice between a computer that runs 10% of the software in the world and one that runs 95%.. which would you buy?

Obviously Mac people will answer.. "the shiny one!" :D

AustinChief
06-19-2012, 12:18 AM
Here is one HUGE problem i see with this...

I think the RT version will be $500 making it go head to head with iPad. It will probably have superior hardware and definitely a better OS... but is still too high on price IMO.

The PRO version will probably be MUCH higher.. like $1200.. which means that they had better have one hell of a strategy to get corporate buyers because the average consumer isn't ready to pay that.

If they could go as low as $400 for RT and $900 for PRO.. they could knock it out of the park.

ILChief
06-19-2012, 07:20 AM
Um, the link to BigLots? :D

I check the ACTUAL data on this, not the crap that only counts the major manufacturers. Most of those research firms don't count whitebox manufacturers at all. Hell they don't even count smaller branded tablets... they look solely at guys like Samsung, Dell, HP, BN and Amazon. Which is fine if you realize that is only part of the overall picture.

A perfect example, last year in June 2011 what were most of the published figures saying about iPad market share? 76% or some such right? The actual figure was around 54%. (I think it ended up right at 50% by end of year)

It's important to distinguish between US and worldwide as well.

My link didn't copy. It was a graph that had how many tablets per 100 iPads, and the highest one was 2

Saulbadguy
06-19-2012, 07:42 AM
Yup.

Honestly, a fully functioning windows tablet could blow the doors off the tablet market if done properly. Everyone says "I don't need that, I only use my tablet to watch videos or surf the web"... well , yeah of course.. because that's all the damn thing is good for. If we look at it a different way, if given the choice between a computer that runs 10% of the software in the world and one that runs 95%.. which would you buy?

Obviously Mac people will answer.. "the shiny one!" :D

Fortunately, with an RDP client I can do just about anything on an iPad or Android OS tablet. :P

It's even better with a VMWare View deployment.

Buehler445
06-19-2012, 11:22 AM
Here is one HUGE problem i see with this...

I think the RT version will be $500 making it go head to head with iPad. It will probably have superior hardware and definitely a better OS... but is still too high on price IMO.

The PRO version will probably be MUCH higher.. like $1200.. which means that they had better have one hell of a strategy to get corporate buyers because the average consumer isn't ready to pay that.

If they could go as low as $400 for RT and $900 for PRO.. they could knock it out of the park.

Maybe my time in the office is in the stoneage, but I'm not real sure exactly how big corporate demand is. AFAIC the standard office monkey will still be using a PC with a large or dual monitor. I don't think it will replace a PC.

I recognize that executive types will eat them up like candy. Anybody that is even a little bit mobile is probably in too. I can also see some production type applications. I guess service type businesses would be all over them like stink on shit too.

That is a pretty significant market that could be served if a good product was out there, but some of them are already using Ipads.

The other side of getting larger corporations to adopt them is security. When I left Cabela's, there were only a couple people that could even get emails sent to their phone.

Fish
06-19-2012, 12:45 PM
Maybe my time in the office is in the stoneage, but I'm not real sure exactly how big corporate demand is. AFAIC the standard office monkey will still be using a PC with a large or dual monitor. I don't think it will replace a PC.

I recognize that executive types will eat them up like candy. Anybody that is even a little bit mobile is probably in too. I can also see some production type applications. I guess service type businesses would be all over them like stink on shit too.

That is a pretty significant market that could be served if a good product was out there, but some of them are already using Ipads.

The other side of getting larger corporations to adopt them is security. When I left Cabela's, there were only a couple people that could even get emails sent to their phone.

Tablets are not meant to replace PCs. People aren't buying tablets so they can throw away their desktops. It's meant to be a highly mobile consumption device that can perform some limited PC functionality in a pinch. And the people higher up in enterprise environments are eating them up, despite the fact that most don't have a clear definitive use for it.

Security is certainly an issue with them though. Tablets and smartphones have piss poor security. People have been pretty lucky so far, other than the idiot celeb getting nekkid pics stolen. And people are storing more and more info on smartphones and tablets, including passwords and such.

Fat Elvis
06-19-2012, 03:30 PM
Yup.

Honestly, a fully functioning windows tablet could blow the doors off the tablet market if done properly. Everyone says "I don't need that, I only use my tablet to watch videos or surf the web"... well , yeah of course.. because that's all the damn thing is good for. If we look at it a different way, if given the choice between a computer that runs 10% of the software in the world and one that runs 95%.. which would you buy?

Obviously Mac people will answer.. "the shiny one!" :D

Apple doesn't do "shiny"




---it does black or white.....

Cave Johnson
06-19-2012, 03:35 PM
Nah. Android tablets were shit to begin with -- they'll (MS) be taking a lot more than a "small chunk".

Yeah, because M$ is a consumer electronics juggernaut! ;)

Mr. Laz
06-19-2012, 04:39 PM
Apple does "shiny"

---it does Shiny black or Shiny white.....
FYP

:D

AustinChief
06-19-2012, 04:52 PM
Apple doesn't do "shiny"




---it does black or white.....

yeah, I thought of putting "the WHITE one" , but I didn't want to paint all apple people as racists... :D

AustinChief
06-19-2012, 05:00 PM
Yeah, because M$ is a consumer electronics juggernaut! ;)

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web05/2011/6/9/17/anigif_not-sure-if-serious-gif-to-be-used-on-forums-22779-1307655858-12.gif

MS holds around 80-85% of the consumer OS market. (corporate is 90-95%)

QuikSsurfer
06-19-2012, 05:04 PM
yeah, I thought of putting "the WHITE one" , but I didn't want to paint all apple people as racists... :D

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f86/quikssurfer/gifs/1zpjgx0.gif

The God Hypothesis
06-19-2012, 06:44 PM
Maybe my time in the office is in the stoneage, but I'm not real sure exactly how big corporate demand is. AFAIC the standard office monkey will still be using a PC with a large or dual monitor. I don't think it will replace a PC.

I recognize that executive types will eat them up like candy. Anybody that is even a little bit mobile is probably in too. I can also see some production type applications. I guess service type businesses would be all over them like stink on shit too.

That is a pretty significant market that could be served if a good product was out there, but some of them are already using Ipads.

The other side of getting larger corporations to adopt them is security. When I left Cabela's, there were only a couple people that could even get emails sent to their phone.

There is a HUGE demand for tablets in the corporate world. Every retailer wants them, marketers, restaurants, car dealerships, etc...

The day is coming when you go into a vehicle repair shop and they scan your car in at the parking lot and then you use their touch pad there to tell them what you want repaired/maintained, etc...much less hassle.

The cash register is on the way out... Think of all the people that travel for work regionally and nationally, what a pain in the ass it is to lug around a laptop, not to mention start up times, battery life limitations, etc...

Everything corporate is going to the tablets sooner or later imho.

I was talking to our CEO (Bridgestone Retail Operations) and he mentioned a restaurant he frequents that moved their wine lists from paper to tablet. Theyd move the tablet from table to table as requested by the patrons as it included full color maps and the history of each bottle of wine they carried. Almost immediately wine sales went up 600%. They have one at each table now.

Mr. Plow
06-19-2012, 07:19 PM
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f86/quikssurfer/gifs/1zpjgx0.gif


LMAO

ILChief
06-19-2012, 07:23 PM
This is the link I meant to post before:

http://www.neowin.net/news/ipad-accounts-for-almost-95-of-all-tablet-web-traffic

DaveNull
06-19-2012, 08:09 PM
Those statistics are clearly skewed towards people who actually use their tablets and should probably be ignored.

ILChief
06-19-2012, 08:36 PM
Those statistics are clearly skewed towards people who actually use their tablets and should probably be ignored.

lol

AustinChief
06-20-2012, 12:40 AM
This is the link I meant to post before:

http://www.neowin.net/news/ipad-accounts-for-almost-95-of-all-tablet-web-traffic

HAHAHA.. That is seriously bad data.

#1 The Chitika Online Advertising Network?? HUH?
#2 This is based on USER-AGENT data, which doesn't account for .. well EVERYTHING It's completely unreliable. For example, I use Dolphin on my android tablet and Chrome on my windows tablet. Both of those wouldn't count in their data, they show up as desktop browsers. Let's say I use the default browser on my android devices... it still will show up in a million different ways. iPad and iPhone have ONE user-agent string to look for each. A single Samsung tablet could have up to 20 different user-agent strings based on version. It's obvious that they didn't take this into account. Unless of course the sales figures are all wrong OR Android tablet owners just don't surf the same websites that Apple users do.

For example.. a more reliable (but still questionable since I don't have access to the raw data) report...

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1112641013/ios-and-android-tied-among-tablet-users/

Indeed, iPad ownership surpassed that of Android tablets in 2011 — 72 percent to 32 percent. But this year those figures have evened out, at 52 percent vs. 51 percent, with most of Android’s boost coming from the Kindle Fire, which is by far the most popular “Android” tablet, accounting for 28 percent of all Android tablet sales.

ChiefsCountry
06-20-2012, 01:09 AM
Sweet I will consider getting a tablet now. No fucking way would I buy an Apple. Ipod is about it, other than running quicktime on the computer.

DaveNull
06-20-2012, 07:28 AM
<i>Tablets are not meant to replace PCs. People aren't buying tablets so they can throw away their desktops. It's meant to be a highly mobile consumption device that can perform some limited PC functionality in a pinch. And the people higher up in enterprise environments are eating them up, despite the fact that most don't have a clear definitive use for it.</i>

Not necessarily but for tons of people they really do. The higher up in the food chain you go, the more time you spend doing things like writing memos, sending email and going to meetings. In many instances you're traveling for those meetings. Get on an airplane and look around. If you travel more than twice a year, then an iPad is a LOT better than lugging around some crap laptop.

<i>Security is certainly an issue with them though. Tablets and smartphones have piss poor security.</i>

Uh huh. Right. Show me the major exploits that are out there in the wild that are actively being used by attackers to penetrate the enterprise for iOS or Android. That's one area where this Windows tablet falls right on it's ass. It still runs Windows, Java (and all those lovely pwnable legacy versions that are impossible to get rid of), Flash and Acrobat.

I suppose this tablet would be great to push inside the enterprise if:

- You peddle snake oil anti-virus software
- You sell products to manage patches on Windows machines
- You've worked your way up to middle management in IT and have a small empire of help desk personnel and support staff with a huge budget that is spent only to keep technology running instead of making business more efficient
- You're a software sales rep on commission

Seriously ponder that last part for a second. The iPad is extremely cheap to deploy and really opens up the possibility for companies to decrease their software licenses through virtualization of Windows. Unless the Surface really functions as the employees only machine, it means two copies of Windows to patch and license, two copies of office, two copies of AV, two copies of...well you get the point.

When you say:

<i>And the people higher up in enterprise environments are eating them up, despite the fact that most don't have a clear definitive use for it. </i>

What you really mean to say is that YOU don't have a definitive use for it. Is it really that or is it that the iPad didn't fit into your multi-year job-defining project to upgrade Office across your company? Attitudes like that in big companies that sniffle innovation and make people who don't work in a cost center crazy.

How dare these executives and other employees actually decide what technology works best for the things they do and how they work? It's like they think that they know how to do their jobs better than the folks in IT do.

Fat Elvis
06-20-2012, 09:45 AM
I'm really looking forward to getting one of the pros (assuming the stylus is as accurate as they make it out to be); as stated before, tablets currently are about content consumption, not content creation. The prospect of using a high res tablet running Painter, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, etc., just gives me goosebumps. Up until this point, the only *real* alternative to direct onscreen editing has been using a Wacom Cintiq-the smallest of which cost $1K--without the computer.

I know apps such as Splashtop and Logmein are supposed to let you manipulate a desktop, but they don't provide the necessary fine touch you would be looking for in content creation.

Valiant
06-20-2012, 09:56 AM
How is it a REAL TABLET if it still comes with a touchpad, keyboard and a pointer driven UI?

Seems more like its a REALLY THIN TOUCH DISPLAY holding all the components with a REALLY THIN KEYBOARD

Tablets were originally just a touchscreen interface on a laptop.. I have had a tablet for years before Apple made them popular.. Now if we want to argue that a tablet definition has evolved that is reasonable..

Deberg_1990
06-20-2012, 09:59 AM
Of course the traditional desktop PC may never truly die out, but you would be a fool to NOT see that tablets have put a serious dent into desktop PC sales.

Definately in the home PC market where most people primarily use their desktop PCs to surf, pay a few bills, watch movies and play solitaire.

IN the traditional office cube enviroment, id say most people and companies are still happy with the desktop PCs over tablets, but that might change someday. Just in less power consumption alone, companies have to be looking at the benefits tablets offer long term.

Fish
06-20-2012, 12:29 PM
<i>Tablets are not meant to replace PCs. People aren't buying tablets so they can throw away their desktops. It's meant to be a highly mobile consumption device that can perform some limited PC functionality in a pinch. And the people higher up in enterprise environments are eating them up, despite the fact that most don't have a clear definitive use for it.</i>

Not necessarily but for tons of people they really do. The higher up in the food chain you go, the more time you spend doing things like writing memos, sending email and going to meetings. In many instances you're traveling for those meetings. Get on an airplane and look around. If you travel more than twice a year, then an iPad is a LOT better than lugging around some crap laptop.

<i>Security is certainly an issue with them though. Tablets and smartphones have piss poor security.</i>

Uh huh. Right. Show me the major exploits that are out there in the wild that are actively being used by attackers to penetrate the enterprise for iOS or Android. That's one area where this Windows tablet falls right on it's ass. It still runs Windows, Java (and all those lovely pwnable legacy versions that are impossible to get rid of), Flash and Acrobat.

I suppose this tablet would be great to push inside the enterprise if:

- You peddle snake oil anti-virus software
- You sell products to manage patches on Windows machines
- You've worked your way up to middle management in IT and have a small empire of help desk personnel and support staff with a huge budget that is spent only to keep technology running instead of making business more efficient
- You're a software sales rep on commission

Seriously ponder that last part for a second. The iPad is extremely cheap to deploy and really opens up the possibility for companies to decrease their software licenses through virtualization of Windows. Unless the Surface really functions as the employees only machine, it means two copies of Windows to patch and license, two copies of office, two copies of AV, two copies of...well you get the point.

When you say:

<i>And the people higher up in enterprise environments are eating them up, despite the fact that most don't have a clear definitive use for it. </i>

What you really mean to say is that YOU don't have a definitive use for it. Is it really that or is it that the iPad didn't fit into your multi-year job-defining project to upgrade Office across your company? Attitudes like that in big companies that sniffle innovation and make people who don't work in a cost center crazy.

How dare these executives and other employees actually decide what technology works best for the things they do and how they work? It's like they think that they know how to do their jobs better than the folks in IT do.

LOLWUT? Writing memos on a tablet is a painful experience. People don't do so because it works well. Tablets are still consumption devices, and any actual desktop like work is tedious. The only advantage for tablets is portability.

There are plenty of security exploits for both iOS and Android. I can and have exposed exploits in many iOS and Android devices. It's not that hard. Just an example:

And what about weaknesses? Well both platforms have plenty, but then doesn’t most software? An example cited in the infographic is the vulnerability of Apple devices running a version of iOS lower than 4.3.5 to a SSL MITM, or man in the middle attack which hackers can exploit with little effort. This is particularly important due to the fact that certain Apple devices are not actually permitted to upgrade to a higher firmware due to their age and therefore will always remain susceptible. The same update issue is relevant to Android devices, as millions of devices that are still under contract cannot be updated to the latest version of the OS. Android also suffers from a marketplace which is the equivalent of a warzone. The Android Market has a minuscule amount of security in place, and Google allows pretty much any application to be submitted to the market for sale or download. Unlike Apple, Google does not check the security or validity of any applications prior to them going up for sale.

80% of mobile banking apps have serious security flaws: http://www.bgr.com/2012/05/22/mobile-banking-security-flaws-ios/

More: http://www.knowyourmobile.com/blog/1267434/huge_security_flaw_in_ios_and_android_exposed.html

More: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/facebook-dropbox-ios-android-major-security-flaw-leaks-user-information-updates/



The iPad is extremely cheap to deploy? ROFL Seriously... ROFL... Obviously you've never had to deploy a fleet of iPads to a bunch of snobby professionals. Apple makes it much more difficult than it has to be, as each iPad is tied to somebody's iTunes account for getting apps. You can't just load apps for some executive, because then they can't update it, as it was used with another iTunes account. They don't want to load software themselves, or else they can't figure it out. And then you have to deal with the lofty expectation of idiot execs, who expect a tablet to function exactly as a computer. "What do you mean I can't load Office on my iPad?" I get that a lot.

I have a very specific use for my tablet. WTF would make you think the opposite? I use my tablet more than my laptop these days. Your assumptions about my experiences couldn't be more wrong.

Executives haven't decided what works best. It has zero to do with what works best. Most of the execs I support for a living use their tablets to play Angry Birds and browse the internet. 95% don't actually do any work on them. You're clueless.

Mr. Laz
06-20-2012, 12:45 PM
for the price they are charging they better start being a better replacement for laptops

Cave Johnson
06-20-2012, 02:29 PM
http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web05/2011/6/9/17/anigif_not-sure-if-serious-gif-to-be-used-on-forums-22779-1307655858-12.gif

MS holds around 80-85% of the consumer OS market. (corporate is 90-95%)

Was referring to hardware. They haven't shown any competency in that area other than the Xbox.

Buehler445
06-20-2012, 03:35 PM
Tablets are not meant to replace PCs. People aren't buying tablets so they can throw away their desktops. It's meant to be a highly mobile consumption device that can perform some limited PC functionality in a pinch. And the people higher up in enterprise environments are eating them up, despite the fact that most don't have a clear definitive use for it.

Security is certainly an issue with them though. Tablets and smartphones have piss poor security. People have been pretty lucky so far, other than the idiot celeb getting nekkid pics stolen. And people are storing more and more info on smartphones and tablets, including passwords and such.

There is a HUGE demand for tablets in the corporate world. Every retailer wants them, marketers, restaurants, car dealerships, etc...

The day is coming when you go into a vehicle repair shop and they scan your car in at the parking lot and then you use their touch pad there to tell them what you want repaired/maintained, etc...much less hassle.

The cash register is on the way out... Think of all the people that travel for work regionally and nationally, what a pain in the ass it is to lug around a laptop, not to mention start up times, battery life limitations, etc...

Everything corporate is going to the tablets sooner or later imho.

I was talking to our CEO (Bridgestone Retail Operations) and he mentioned a restaurant he frequents that moved their wine lists from paper to tablet. Theyd move the tablet from table to table as requested by the patrons as it included full color maps and the history of each bottle of wine they carried. Almost immediately wine sales went up 600%. They have one at each table now.

I guess when I was thinking corporate, I was thinking office type work, not necessarily retail, production, etc. Like I said in my post, there are huge benefits out there.

I find it harder in an office setting. Either way, I guess there is still an awful lot of room to grow. IF the right hardware/software/integration combination can be reached.

WoodDraw
06-21-2012, 05:34 PM
Microsoft always shows decent products, but they have no ecosystem. Even from their current phones, to Win 8 phones, to RT, to Pro...? What does any of this mean? Will consumers understand it? And will developers? Or will they care?

AustinChief
06-21-2012, 06:01 PM
Was referring to hardware. They haven't shown any competency in that area other than the Xbox.

and the MS Mouse and the MS Keyboards...and webcams... and headsets...

Pretty much the Zune is what you are referring to, the rest of their hardware has not only been well made, but successful in the market.

I'm RARELY a defender of MS.. but let's be honest in the discussion here.

ILChief
06-21-2012, 06:19 PM
Microsoft always shows decent products, but they have no ecosystem. Even from their current phones, to Win 8 phones, to RT, to Pro...? What does any of this mean? Will consumers understand it? And will developers? Or will they care?

Microsoft has the same problem that Google has with Android in that any manufacturer can put their OS's on any device they want. Then you get people buy a piece of crap tablet like that Big Lots one and they think Android sucks even though it may not but to them it does because that is their experience with Android. Same with Windows and POS eMachine computers. It seems like MS has finally come around with the Surface. People bag on Apple, but I can see their point not wanting their stuff running on shitty machines and creating the impression their software is crap.

Mr. Laz
06-21-2012, 06:37 PM
Microsoft has the same problem that Google has with Android in that any manufacturer can put their OS's on any device they want. Then you get people buy a piece of crap tablet like that Big Lots one and they think Android sucks even though it may not but to them it does because that is their experience with Android. Same with Windows and POS eMachine computers. It seems like MS has finally come around with the Surface. People bag on Apple, but I can see their point not wanting their stuff running on shitty machines and creating the impression their software is crap.
oh come on now ...

I've put micro$oft on some pretty dam good machine and had it suck.


M$ is no victim OF ANYTHING

MTG#10
06-21-2012, 07:18 PM
I meant they are 2 or 3 years behind Apple trying to play catch up.:spock:

http://img9.joyreactor.com/pics/post/comics-apple-microsoft-table-pc-214699.jpeg

MoreLemonPledge
06-21-2012, 08:13 PM
and the MS Mouse and the MS Keyboards...and webcams... and headsets...

Pretty much the Zune is what you are referring to, the rest of their hardware has not only been well made, but successful in the market.

I'm RARELY a defender of MS.. but let's be honest in the discussion here.

To be fair, the Zune HD was a very well made, very critically acclaimed device. It just came out too late and had a poor public perception due to the previous Zune iterations.

Guru
06-21-2012, 11:19 PM
and the MS Mouse and the MS Keyboards...and webcams... and headsets...

Pretty much the Zune is what you are referring to, the rest of their hardware has not only been well made, but successful in the market.

I'm RARELY a defender of MS.. but let's be honest in the discussion here.

The Zune was a fine piece of tech. Unfortunately, Apple developed the iPod Touch. When MS come out with the Zune HD it was too little too late. It was still a great music player either way.

AustinChief
06-21-2012, 11:23 PM
The Zune was a fine piece of tech. Unfortunately, Apple developed the iPod Touch. When MS come out with the Zune HD it was too little too late. It was still a great music player either way.

oh, I'm not saying anything bad about ZUNE.. I'm just saying that is probably what Pittsie was referring to.. since the vast majority of MS hardware(what little there has been) has been pretty damn successful.

Buehler445
06-21-2012, 11:30 PM
Do why are they calling it XBOX? Is it just to gain a few sales from established customers? I'd think that if they're going after the business market, XBOX would be a poor label.

MoreLemonPledge
06-22-2012, 06:50 AM
Do why are they calling it XBOX? Is it just to gain a few sales from established customers? I'd think that if they're going after the business market, XBOX would be a poor label.

They aren't. The document in the OP isn't official.

Mr. Laz
06-22-2012, 09:14 AM
Do why are they calling it XBOX? Is it just to gain a few sales from established customers? I'd think that if they're going after the business market, XBOX would be a poor label.
I figured they were going to try to integrate it with the XBOX like the new handheld for the Wii 2.

Braincase
06-22-2012, 06:40 PM
The biggest difference between the Surface and the iPad is the fact that one is a scaled down version of a PC operating system, and the other is a glorified phone OS. I spent the week of 6/11 in Orlando at Microsoft's Technical Education Conference, so I'm getting up to speed on all of the new stuff MS has comingout, although I'll admit I focused primarily on the Server 2012 stuff. Ask questions and I'll do my best to answer, but to be frank everyone will be best served by just following #windows8 on Twitter. That's what I do, and talk to some friends of mine at the mothership.

Guru
06-22-2012, 06:51 PM
I figured they were going to try to integrate it with the XBOX like the new handheld for the Wii 2.

You mean the Wii Too.

Mr. Laz
06-22-2012, 07:16 PM
You mean the Wii Too.
wii also?

Guru
06-22-2012, 09:43 PM
wii also?
Wii again